WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.910 --> 00:00:07.590 Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood and I am your host 2 00:00:07.670 --> 00:00:11.226 to the Inclusion Bytes podcast. In this series, I will be 3 00:00:11.248 --> 00:00:15.034 interviewing a number of amazing people and simply having a conversation around 4 00:00:15.072 --> 00:00:18.794 the subject of inclusion, belonging and generally making the world 5 00:00:18.832 --> 00:00:22.646 a better place for everyone to thrive in. If you'd like to join 6 00:00:22.678 --> 00:00:25.194 me in the future, then please do drop me a line to 7 00:00:25.232 --> 00:00:28.814 jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. That's 8 00:00:28.862 --> 00:00:32.270 seechangehappen.co.uk. 9 00:00:32.430 --> 00:00:35.634 You'll be able to catch up with all of the shows on iTunes, Spotify and 10 00:00:35.672 --> 00:00:39.478 of course, all the usual places. So plug in your headphones, grab a 11 00:00:39.484 --> 00:00:43.078 decaf and let's get going. Today 12 00:00:43.244 --> 00:00:46.742 is episode eleven with the title why Love, 13 00:00:46.876 --> 00:00:50.646 respect, connection and acceptance matter. And 14 00:00:50.668 --> 00:00:53.894 I have the absolute honour and privilege to be joined by Ling 15 00:00:53.942 --> 00:00:57.322 Salter. I met Ling online through my local 16 00:00:57.376 --> 00:01:01.146 Rotary Social Innovation Club and Ling describes herself as 17 00:01:01.168 --> 00:01:04.970 a formal mental health nurse of Chinese descent, living in the UK, 18 00:01:05.310 --> 00:01:08.206 striving to thrive during this period of change, 19 00:01:08.308 --> 00:01:12.094 disruption, whatever you want to call it. It's an unprecedented time. 20 00:01:12.212 --> 00:01:16.046 It sure is. So I asked Ling to describe her superpower and 21 00:01:16.068 --> 00:01:19.746 she said her vulnerability and being able to connect with 22 00:01:19.768 --> 00:01:22.500 her purpose in a compassionate way. 23 00:01:23.750 --> 00:01:27.394 So, hello, Ling. Welcome to the show. Hi there, 24 00:01:27.432 --> 00:01:30.998 Jo. Hi. 25 00:01:31.084 --> 00:01:34.262 So tell me, why does love, 26 00:01:34.396 --> 00:01:37.766 respect, connection and acceptance matter to 27 00:01:37.788 --> 00:01:41.342 you? Well, Jo, they're 28 00:01:41.506 --> 00:01:44.922 very big concepts there 29 00:01:44.976 --> 00:01:48.060 that all of us 30 00:01:48.430 --> 00:01:51.642 need to a large extent, in different 31 00:01:51.696 --> 00:01:55.280 quantities. Whether we describe it as love, 32 00:01:56.450 --> 00:01:59.470 acceptance, belonging, 33 00:02:00.450 --> 00:02:02.990 whatever spear we look at it upon, 34 00:02:04.050 --> 00:02:07.220 it's really important because 35 00:02:07.910 --> 00:02:10.340 we want to be included. Right? 36 00:02:11.510 --> 00:02:14.962 Yeah, for sure. And I noticed the word belonging there 37 00:02:15.096 --> 00:02:18.546 and I really feel a connection with that word 38 00:02:18.648 --> 00:02:22.054 and it means so many things to so many different people. But it's about being 39 00:02:22.092 --> 00:02:25.190 listened to sometimes, isn't it? Yes. 40 00:02:25.340 --> 00:02:28.950 And really being listened to, 41 00:02:29.020 --> 00:02:32.762 being heard sometimes is quite 42 00:02:32.816 --> 00:02:35.980 rare. When we all like to talk, 43 00:02:36.830 --> 00:02:40.518 talking is great and how we articulate 44 00:02:40.614 --> 00:02:44.060 sort of how we see things in our world. 45 00:02:44.850 --> 00:02:48.590 That connection comes about when 46 00:02:48.740 --> 00:02:52.142 somebody else who really 47 00:02:52.196 --> 00:02:55.738 is listening and being attentive 48 00:02:55.914 --> 00:02:59.618 gets you right. And that is where 49 00:02:59.784 --> 00:03:02.980 the connection happens. 50 00:03:05.430 --> 00:03:09.086 It does, and I completely relate to that. You say you're a former 51 00:03:09.118 --> 00:03:12.550 mental health nurse, so you must have come across 52 00:03:12.620 --> 00:03:15.814 examples where a lot of people's mental health was 53 00:03:15.852 --> 00:03:19.570 impacted by not being listened to, maybe didn't have agency, 54 00:03:19.650 --> 00:03:22.954 didn't have any power decision, and you must have come across those 55 00:03:22.992 --> 00:03:26.220 challenges working with people. Yes, definitely. 56 00:03:26.750 --> 00:03:30.394 Certainly. I spent my 57 00:03:30.432 --> 00:03:34.038 time working in prison, which is 58 00:03:34.144 --> 00:03:36.750 a very challenging 59 00:03:37.410 --> 00:03:41.150 place for the people who are 60 00:03:41.220 --> 00:03:44.986 incarcerated and it's very chaotic 61 00:03:45.098 --> 00:03:48.846 and quite a lot of time. There's 62 00:03:48.878 --> 00:03:52.658 not a lot of opportunity to connect 63 00:03:52.824 --> 00:03:55.700 in the way that you wish to 64 00:03:57.430 --> 00:04:01.054 really facilitate for that person 65 00:04:01.192 --> 00:04:04.214 to be heard. There's a lot of 66 00:04:04.332 --> 00:04:07.222 shouting and very 67 00:04:07.356 --> 00:04:11.174 transient interactions, which sort of are 68 00:04:11.212 --> 00:04:14.940 very immediate, where they're calling you to meet 69 00:04:15.310 --> 00:04:18.780 a particular need. Whereas actually, 70 00:04:20.030 --> 00:04:23.386 in life we have needs that we might 71 00:04:23.408 --> 00:04:27.102 not articulate. Just at our first 72 00:04:27.156 --> 00:04:30.000 instance. It takes time to actually 73 00:04:30.370 --> 00:04:32.960 explore and find out. 74 00:04:35.890 --> 00:04:39.566 Sometimes when you experience a mental 75 00:04:39.598 --> 00:04:43.166 health issue, there's a disconnect. 76 00:04:43.278 --> 00:04:46.674 So almost opposite to the 77 00:04:46.712 --> 00:04:50.374 connection. And refinding what 78 00:04:50.412 --> 00:04:53.574 your purpose is and your 79 00:04:53.612 --> 00:04:56.120 passion, what means a lot to you. 80 00:04:57.370 --> 00:04:59.560 Yeah, it takes time to find that out. 81 00:05:01.850 --> 00:05:05.514 So I'm just thinking as you're talking now, I'm thinking about this and 82 00:05:05.552 --> 00:05:09.162 thinking, so if I'm not being listened to by 83 00:05:09.216 --> 00:05:11.260 the people that matter to me, 84 00:05:12.910 --> 00:05:16.154 but I do get listened to by other people, am I more likely 85 00:05:16.202 --> 00:05:19.838 to join a different crowd? So 86 00:05:19.924 --> 00:05:23.658 where I feel this sense of value? So maybe in prison, if I'm 87 00:05:23.674 --> 00:05:27.374 not being listened to by authority, but I am being 88 00:05:27.412 --> 00:05:31.186 listened to by anarchy, if you like, I may be 89 00:05:31.208 --> 00:05:34.542 more form an allegiance with people who in that other tribe. 90 00:05:34.686 --> 00:05:38.402 So by the impact of us ignoring people and not giving 91 00:05:38.456 --> 00:05:42.274 people the ability to express and being hurt, then we're allowing 92 00:05:42.322 --> 00:05:46.166 other people to steal their attention, if you like. Is that what's kind of 93 00:05:46.188 --> 00:05:49.526 happening? Sometimes? Yes. I mean, that happens quite a 94 00:05:49.548 --> 00:05:53.322 lot. Areas where people are 95 00:05:53.376 --> 00:05:56.300 disaffected, say, by 96 00:05:56.750 --> 00:06:00.282 authority or places that we 97 00:06:00.336 --> 00:06:03.260 think we know that we trust, well, 98 00:06:05.330 --> 00:06:08.478 they're not meeting our needs. Right? So if 99 00:06:08.564 --> 00:06:11.818 then another group or entity 100 00:06:11.994 --> 00:06:15.706 comes by which actually are able to attend 101 00:06:15.738 --> 00:06:18.740 to us to a certain level, then 102 00:06:20.070 --> 00:06:23.300 we can swap allegiancies quite quickly, because 103 00:06:25.110 --> 00:06:28.882 all of us are trying to serve ourselves to a certain level. 104 00:06:29.016 --> 00:06:32.774 Even if we're wanting to give. Well, if you want to give 105 00:06:32.812 --> 00:06:36.166 to someone, you still have to have the means to be able to do it, 106 00:06:36.188 --> 00:06:39.766 right? And so you can't do that, then you're going to 107 00:06:39.788 --> 00:06:43.466 go to a place, wherever that is, so 108 00:06:43.488 --> 00:06:47.114 that you can do that. Simple as it doesn't matter whether that 109 00:06:47.152 --> 00:06:50.954 place is known for whatever kind of 110 00:06:50.992 --> 00:06:54.570 subject levels, we can swap. 111 00:06:56.770 --> 00:07:00.554 Yeah, connection is so important, but connection 112 00:07:00.602 --> 00:07:03.390 with kindness, which perhaps 113 00:07:03.890 --> 00:07:07.140 isn't really spoke about as much, 114 00:07:09.270 --> 00:07:11.860 I think is even more important because 115 00:07:14.070 --> 00:07:17.858 we're social beings. We want to try and 116 00:07:17.864 --> 00:07:20.040 get along in life and 117 00:07:21.290 --> 00:07:23.320 promote the good within each other. 118 00:07:25.450 --> 00:07:29.142 So you mentioned well being in there. So well being is all part 119 00:07:29.196 --> 00:07:32.854 of not physical wellbeing. There's also the mental health well being, 120 00:07:32.892 --> 00:07:36.666 isn't it? And we always associate mental health as being a 121 00:07:36.688 --> 00:07:40.266 negative, don't we? Because you can have good mental health and bad mental health or 122 00:07:40.288 --> 00:07:43.900 poor mental health. It's not all mental health is bad, is it? So 123 00:07:45.390 --> 00:07:48.926 maybe there's a stigma around just saying mental health because it 124 00:07:48.948 --> 00:07:52.286 implies there's something wrong with you. So how do we change that narrative and 125 00:07:52.388 --> 00:07:55.454 readdress that and make mental health seem a positive thing? 126 00:07:55.572 --> 00:07:58.930 Yes, I think for my 127 00:07:59.080 --> 00:08:02.434 speaking on a personal level, the 128 00:08:02.472 --> 00:08:05.220 word mental in itself, 129 00:08:07.110 --> 00:08:10.342 when we even just say the word mental, it 130 00:08:10.396 --> 00:08:12.722 has negative 131 00:08:12.866 --> 00:08:16.290 stereotypes. So hence 132 00:08:16.450 --> 00:08:19.954 people talk about their emotional 133 00:08:20.002 --> 00:08:23.446 health or their well being, and they're 134 00:08:23.478 --> 00:08:26.700 really part of the same things. 135 00:08:27.550 --> 00:08:31.002 Sometimes some people don't like talking about their emotions, their 136 00:08:31.056 --> 00:08:34.454 feelings, thinking, well, what purpose has 137 00:08:34.592 --> 00:08:38.302 feelings got to do with life anyway? 138 00:08:38.436 --> 00:08:42.254 How you feel is how you feel. And sometimes we 139 00:08:42.292 --> 00:08:44.590 might deny 140 00:08:45.970 --> 00:08:48.260 how we feel, which 141 00:08:49.590 --> 00:08:53.186 actually feelings have a 142 00:08:53.208 --> 00:08:56.770 habit of actually coming back. So 143 00:08:56.920 --> 00:09:00.162 particularly negative feelings, if we try to suppress 144 00:09:00.226 --> 00:09:03.926 them and we don't attend to them, it will process them 145 00:09:03.948 --> 00:09:07.702 in some way, they will come back without 146 00:09:07.756 --> 00:09:11.526 a doubt. So 147 00:09:11.628 --> 00:09:13.660 as you're talking, I'm thinking that 148 00:09:15.230 --> 00:09:18.682 you said the word mental has got negative connotations. And we always think about 149 00:09:18.736 --> 00:09:21.820 straitjackets, we talk about asylums, we think about 150 00:09:22.670 --> 00:09:25.520 all these images of the past where 151 00:09:27.250 --> 00:09:30.846 admitting to having poor mental health is a real 152 00:09:30.868 --> 00:09:34.446 stigma and allowing people to open up without feeling that 153 00:09:34.468 --> 00:09:38.206 shame, feeling of failing for not being able to handle something in 154 00:09:38.228 --> 00:09:41.954 their life, it's a very hard for people to do. I mean, I know 155 00:09:41.992 --> 00:09:45.826 from my own experience, four or five years ago, I was going 156 00:09:45.848 --> 00:09:49.394 through a dark time in my life, and I was very 157 00:09:49.432 --> 00:09:53.090 reluctant to share how I was feeling with people. I wanted to fix 158 00:09:53.160 --> 00:09:56.966 myself, because sometimes you don't have the tools, do you 159 00:09:57.068 --> 00:10:00.886 don't have your own tools within you? You need a lifeline or a way of 160 00:10:00.908 --> 00:10:02.540 communicating out of it, don't you? 161 00:10:04.350 --> 00:10:06.220 Yeah, that's very true. 162 00:10:09.070 --> 00:10:12.550 When we're in a bad place, it's 163 00:10:12.630 --> 00:10:16.334 very easy for us to disconnect with 164 00:10:16.372 --> 00:10:20.030 others, and we want to protect ourselves. 165 00:10:21.570 --> 00:10:25.406 When we withdraw and we don't reach out to others, in a 166 00:10:25.428 --> 00:10:28.450 way, we think that we're protecting ourselves. 167 00:10:30.310 --> 00:10:34.002 I'm dealing with this even if I'm not dealing with it very 168 00:10:34.056 --> 00:10:36.820 well. I'm dealing it with it 169 00:10:38.070 --> 00:10:41.734 internally in my own little world, right? So nobody needs 170 00:10:41.772 --> 00:10:45.458 to know that I'm dealing with this, even if I'm 171 00:10:45.474 --> 00:10:49.142 struggling. And in a way, the longer we leave 172 00:10:49.196 --> 00:10:52.738 it, the harder it gets to reach out. Wouldn't you 173 00:10:52.764 --> 00:10:56.566 say for sure? Yeah. It becomes 174 00:10:56.598 --> 00:11:00.406 a kind of self fulfilling prophecy. I'm not feeling great, therefore 175 00:11:00.438 --> 00:11:04.230 I don't feel great. And we do less exercise, we communicate less, 176 00:11:04.400 --> 00:11:08.186 we withdraw into ourselves, don't we? And I'm 177 00:11:08.218 --> 00:11:11.946 aware that male suicide amongst the ages, 178 00:11:11.978 --> 00:11:15.470 or is it 25 to 40, is the highest proportion of suicides 179 00:11:16.630 --> 00:11:20.306 in any demographic. And there's still a 180 00:11:20.328 --> 00:11:24.066 stigma about being male and being weak, isn't there? Being able to talk about it? 181 00:11:24.168 --> 00:11:26.740 Yes, there is this perception that 182 00:11:28.310 --> 00:11:31.974 men in particular. Well, if you talk, men 183 00:11:32.012 --> 00:11:35.410 don't cry, those types of stereotypes. 184 00:11:35.490 --> 00:11:39.286 And that actually perpetuates the 185 00:11:39.308 --> 00:11:43.094 problem, because if they're not able to articulate 186 00:11:43.142 --> 00:11:46.666 how they feel or be able to reach out for 187 00:11:46.848 --> 00:11:50.186 support, that support can just be a 188 00:11:50.208 --> 00:11:53.942 conversation. And from that conversation is 189 00:11:54.016 --> 00:11:57.166 connection. And that's why it's so 190 00:11:57.268 --> 00:12:00.846 important. Well, it's important to me, but 191 00:12:01.028 --> 00:12:04.574 the wider message, it's important to 192 00:12:04.612 --> 00:12:07.700 others. And how. Well, 193 00:12:09.670 --> 00:12:13.298 the first port of call, in the sense of really 194 00:12:13.464 --> 00:12:16.660 reaching out to another person 195 00:12:17.110 --> 00:12:20.898 and accessing, 196 00:12:21.074 --> 00:12:24.040 allowing someone else to 197 00:12:25.450 --> 00:12:28.710 sort of a ringside seat to what you're experiencing, 198 00:12:30.090 --> 00:12:33.386 that makes sense. Yeah. I 199 00:12:33.408 --> 00:12:37.162 hear the expression a cry for help. And many 200 00:12:37.216 --> 00:12:40.566 people say that when people attempt to commit 201 00:12:40.598 --> 00:12:43.660 suicide or attempt suicide, that 202 00:12:44.350 --> 00:12:48.186 it's a cry for help. And they really want someone to listen 203 00:12:48.208 --> 00:12:52.046 to them, which is why, I guess, Samaritans and services like that, and 204 00:12:52.068 --> 00:12:55.646 maybe your own service are just someone who can listen. And that's what they really 205 00:12:55.668 --> 00:12:59.506 want. They want someone who can just not judge, not have an 206 00:12:59.528 --> 00:13:03.346 opinion. They just want to create a space where they can talk and 207 00:13:03.368 --> 00:13:07.154 be heard. Yes. And part of that 208 00:13:07.192 --> 00:13:10.630 listening is also with compassion, with that 209 00:13:10.780 --> 00:13:14.630 kindness, with that care 210 00:13:14.780 --> 00:13:16.200 that actually 211 00:13:18.330 --> 00:13:19.400 you matter. 212 00:13:22.430 --> 00:13:25.674 What you're going through in your head is very 213 00:13:25.712 --> 00:13:29.340 difficult right now. However, 214 00:13:30.510 --> 00:13:33.910 you as a human being, your life 215 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:37.760 matters. Quite often 216 00:13:38.370 --> 00:13:41.818 when people get to a place of feeling 217 00:13:41.994 --> 00:13:44.510 or contemplating 218 00:13:45.410 --> 00:13:48.958 suicide, they are wanting 219 00:13:49.134 --> 00:13:51.780 their suffering to end. 220 00:13:52.630 --> 00:13:55.890 Okay. And their 221 00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:59.342 suffering at that point, for them, 222 00:13:59.496 --> 00:14:02.630 is all so consuming. That's 223 00:14:03.050 --> 00:14:06.600 overtaking, sort of like the whole life. 224 00:14:08.330 --> 00:14:12.026 But that isn't all of them. What I'm trying to say is 225 00:14:12.048 --> 00:14:15.386 that their suffering is one area of their 226 00:14:15.408 --> 00:14:19.206 life. They're 227 00:14:19.238 --> 00:14:22.330 coming from a point of view of deficiency, 228 00:14:23.550 --> 00:14:27.278 where actually they have lots of other things in 229 00:14:27.284 --> 00:14:29.630 their life that is valuable, 230 00:14:30.850 --> 00:14:33.520 but it's covered when they're in that space. 231 00:14:36.210 --> 00:14:39.906 It's quite tough being a human being these days, isn't it? With social media, 232 00:14:40.088 --> 00:14:43.250 if you cast your mind back 1520 233 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:47.154 years, if someone didn't like you, they had to either 234 00:14:47.192 --> 00:14:50.420 write you a letter, tell you face to face, 235 00:14:51.750 --> 00:14:55.206 or maybe put something nasty on the note support at school. 236 00:14:55.388 --> 00:14:59.106 But generally you knew who that person was, or at least you knew roughly 237 00:14:59.138 --> 00:15:02.938 where they were. But now you've got no redRess, because anybody in the world 238 00:15:03.104 --> 00:15:05.580 can say something about you that's not nice, 239 00:15:06.270 --> 00:15:10.022 anonymously, without any recourse. And it must be really tough 240 00:15:10.086 --> 00:15:13.686 to be a person who's growing up with body image 241 00:15:13.718 --> 00:15:16.460 issues or identity issues, 242 00:15:17.870 --> 00:15:21.450 to be able to put themselves out there into this world that's so judgmental. 243 00:15:22.270 --> 00:15:26.026 Yes. The Internet in particular, 244 00:15:26.208 --> 00:15:29.566 the mention of the Internet, how great, how it's 245 00:15:29.598 --> 00:15:33.074 evolved. We have access to more 246 00:15:33.112 --> 00:15:36.526 information than we ever have done previously, 247 00:15:36.638 --> 00:15:38.850 and how we communicate 248 00:15:40.170 --> 00:15:43.670 using the Internet. But the flip side 249 00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:47.526 is the Internet is less forgiving in the 250 00:15:47.548 --> 00:15:51.174 sense it doesn't allow us to be 251 00:15:51.212 --> 00:15:54.300 forgotten. Certainly when 252 00:15:55.310 --> 00:15:59.158 the misdemeanours, that I'm sure, Jo, you could relate 253 00:15:59.174 --> 00:16:02.506 to this, the things that we've got up to, perhaps in our younger days, 254 00:16:02.608 --> 00:16:06.000 and things that. 255 00:16:07.810 --> 00:16:11.326 The things that we've done that maybe we're not proud of. But 256 00:16:11.508 --> 00:16:14.814 nowadays, if those things are so much 257 00:16:14.852 --> 00:16:18.354 more, our lives are so much more under the 258 00:16:18.392 --> 00:16:22.110 focus with social media and the Internet. 259 00:16:22.190 --> 00:16:25.394 And the Internet doesn't allow you to 260 00:16:25.432 --> 00:16:28.530 forget, because somewhere 261 00:16:28.970 --> 00:16:32.406 it's stored on a server and it can be 262 00:16:32.428 --> 00:16:36.182 accessed. If somebody really wants to dig, they'll find 263 00:16:36.236 --> 00:16:36.840 it. 264 00:16:41.710 --> 00:16:44.860 It must be very difficult to reinvent yourself 265 00:16:45.630 --> 00:16:48.780 if that's what you're wanting to do 266 00:16:50.350 --> 00:16:53.850 in your life. Yeah, 267 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:57.786 back when I was young, I'm not quite as old as Noah 268 00:16:57.818 --> 00:17:01.054 in the Ark, but I'm in my mid 50s now, which is old 269 00:17:01.092 --> 00:17:04.320 enough. If you wanted to 270 00:17:05.090 --> 00:17:08.782 take a photograph, you had to find your camera, which probably 271 00:17:08.836 --> 00:17:12.626 wasn't with you. It's probably at home. You'd have to cheque you, had 272 00:17:12.648 --> 00:17:16.354 some film in it, maybe find a flash gun or 273 00:17:16.392 --> 00:17:19.858 cube or something, then go and take a photograph. Then you'd have to wait for 274 00:17:19.864 --> 00:17:23.582 you to finish the reel of film off and then post off the boots 275 00:17:23.646 --> 00:17:26.438 or take it off for developing, and then two weeks later you might get the 276 00:17:26.444 --> 00:17:30.194 films back. So it's very difficult to sort of take a nasty 277 00:17:30.242 --> 00:17:33.654 picture and post something online or post it anywhere. Whereas 278 00:17:33.702 --> 00:17:37.370 now every moment can be captured. Everyone's got a camera, 279 00:17:37.870 --> 00:17:41.162 everyone's taking selfies, everyone's so 280 00:17:41.296 --> 00:17:45.066 live. There is no way of hiding and having downtime, even 281 00:17:45.088 --> 00:17:48.862 if you're having a quiet moment. MosT people would have a camera on their phone 282 00:17:48.916 --> 00:17:52.750 with them or be in the background of someone else's shot. 283 00:17:53.330 --> 00:17:57.054 It's terribly difficult to switch off, isn't it? Yes. And 284 00:17:57.092 --> 00:18:00.062 I think it can be very 285 00:18:00.116 --> 00:18:03.774 overwhelming, what you 286 00:18:03.812 --> 00:18:07.602 just described there, Jo. Well, that's you. You doing it. 287 00:18:07.656 --> 00:18:11.046 And if you were to replicate you, your actions, sort 288 00:18:11.068 --> 00:18:14.390 of up and down the country, internationally 289 00:18:15.370 --> 00:18:18.930 and on particular platforms. Can you imagine? 290 00:18:19.090 --> 00:18:22.454 Well, no wonder all of us are feeling a bit 291 00:18:22.492 --> 00:18:25.720 bombarded with the amount of content 292 00:18:26.170 --> 00:18:29.770 and lives and choice. And 293 00:18:29.840 --> 00:18:33.658 sometimes that choice is great when we 294 00:18:33.664 --> 00:18:37.198 all like to have choice and autonomy and how we choose to 295 00:18:37.364 --> 00:18:40.462 engage with certain things, but then suddenly there's this 296 00:18:40.516 --> 00:18:43.946 deluge. It's a bit like a menu, 297 00:18:44.058 --> 00:18:47.578 when if you go into a restaurant 298 00:18:47.754 --> 00:18:51.502 and you see a menu of choices, of different 299 00:18:51.556 --> 00:18:55.346 foods, and great, you've got variety there, you 300 00:18:55.368 --> 00:18:59.026 want to have variety. But if you were presented with a menu that was 301 00:18:59.048 --> 00:19:02.866 just crammed full of different starters, mains, 302 00:19:02.978 --> 00:19:06.502 desserts, you're taking 303 00:19:06.556 --> 00:19:10.120 forever to make a decision. And 304 00:19:10.970 --> 00:19:14.778 it's a bit like that online. It can be very difficult to 305 00:19:14.784 --> 00:19:18.586 then stand what. What stands out. When I need to look, I need 306 00:19:18.608 --> 00:19:21.900 to look through and see what's there, then choose, and 307 00:19:23.230 --> 00:19:27.070 it's the same. But it's so hard 308 00:19:27.140 --> 00:19:30.874 to get off the bus, to use an analogy, 309 00:19:30.922 --> 00:19:34.682 where all of your belonging, all of your inclusion, 310 00:19:34.746 --> 00:19:38.270 all of your circle are in this crowd. 311 00:19:38.610 --> 00:19:42.402 And for you to protect yourself, you have to step out into a world 312 00:19:42.456 --> 00:19:45.986 where all your friends aren't. You've lost that connection with 313 00:19:46.008 --> 00:19:49.606 people. So in order to fix yourself and back out, you've almost got to go 314 00:19:49.628 --> 00:19:53.240 lonely. Where do you find support 315 00:19:53.770 --> 00:19:57.426 for people who turn themselves off? Because by definition, if you've turned 316 00:19:57.458 --> 00:20:01.078 yourself off of social media, you're not online. And 317 00:20:01.244 --> 00:20:04.540 how do we connect with people? How do we form new clubs of people 318 00:20:05.230 --> 00:20:08.586 who want to switch off, who want to not be online at the time. How 319 00:20:08.608 --> 00:20:11.834 do we connect people like that? I 320 00:20:11.872 --> 00:20:15.342 think ultimately it really 321 00:20:15.396 --> 00:20:19.166 is you grounding you in the 322 00:20:19.188 --> 00:20:21.360 sense how you. 323 00:20:23.330 --> 00:20:26.160 You know, you have to know within yourself 324 00:20:26.710 --> 00:20:29.934 what your purpose is, your passion 325 00:20:29.982 --> 00:20:33.330 is, and go from that standpOint, 326 00:20:38.710 --> 00:20:42.406 from the perspective of knowing yourself and knowing what 327 00:20:42.428 --> 00:20:46.262 you're about, then how you 328 00:20:46.316 --> 00:20:50.086 engage with what your passion and 329 00:20:50.108 --> 00:20:53.626 your purpose, the vehicles of how you 330 00:20:53.648 --> 00:20:57.354 engage with that becomes a lot easier in terms 331 00:20:57.392 --> 00:21:00.442 of which 332 00:21:00.496 --> 00:21:04.226 areas, which areas, 333 00:21:04.278 --> 00:21:07.440 which groups that might look like. 334 00:21:08.290 --> 00:21:11.454 And yeah, if you are 335 00:21:11.652 --> 00:21:15.374 fulfilling your purpose isn't just 336 00:21:15.412 --> 00:21:19.042 about goals, because lots of people talk 337 00:21:19.096 --> 00:21:22.946 about specific goals. And then obviously when 338 00:21:22.968 --> 00:21:26.706 people can't meet those goals, they get really disappointed because 339 00:21:26.728 --> 00:21:30.182 they, oh, well, I didn't achieve X, Y and Z. 340 00:21:30.316 --> 00:21:34.066 However, purpose and passion go a lot deeper 341 00:21:34.098 --> 00:21:37.894 than that. And it isn't a prescribed way to say, 342 00:21:37.932 --> 00:21:41.366 well, you should go to these 343 00:21:41.388 --> 00:21:45.222 platforms and not these platforms. It isn't a straight 344 00:21:45.286 --> 00:21:48.380 sort of yes, no issue. 345 00:21:50.030 --> 00:21:52.940 It's about finding what works for you. 346 00:21:54.990 --> 00:21:58.622 Do you think that in this unprecedented time, 347 00:21:58.676 --> 00:22:01.978 as everyone keeps calling it, I think one day it'll become a precedent. Won't 348 00:22:01.994 --> 00:22:05.374 it become the norm? One day we'll get there, we'll stop talking 349 00:22:05.412 --> 00:22:09.106 about. We don't talk about the Roman Empire as being the norm anymore. So I 350 00:22:09.128 --> 00:22:12.190 think one day we'll get used to the idea that we are living in reality 351 00:22:12.270 --> 00:22:14.900 again. So do you think people 352 00:22:15.670 --> 00:22:19.446 have similar, different mental health 353 00:22:19.468 --> 00:22:23.110 challenges now? Is this lockdown making 354 00:22:23.180 --> 00:22:26.200 some people worse, or is it helping? What do you think? 355 00:22:28.010 --> 00:22:31.350 Well, it happened in different stages. 356 00:22:32.030 --> 00:22:35.100 When the lockdown first happened, 357 00:22:36.190 --> 00:22:39.530 there was a lot of shock. People 358 00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.906 didn't know what they were doing with themselves 359 00:22:43.088 --> 00:22:46.874 because all their routines of what 360 00:22:46.912 --> 00:22:50.350 they knew they were. I mean, if you've got a diary or a schedule, 361 00:22:50.690 --> 00:22:53.600 you've got plans. And they were all kind of 362 00:22:54.290 --> 00:22:56.240 mean. Did that happen for 363 00:22:57.810 --> 00:23:01.594 sure. For I land. 364 00:23:01.652 --> 00:23:03.780 I was in Amsterdam the week before, 365 00:23:05.270 --> 00:23:08.658 and when I landed, the world had changed. I didn't get the memo. I was 366 00:23:08.664 --> 00:23:12.386 away at the time. I got back on the Friday the 13th and 367 00:23:12.488 --> 00:23:16.294 everything had changed. And I was wondering what happened. And I threw myself 368 00:23:16.332 --> 00:23:19.942 a pity party for a few days. I had to mourn the loss of everything 369 00:23:19.996 --> 00:23:23.766 I had, the loss of my stability. But 370 00:23:23.788 --> 00:23:26.682 one of the things I think the class of one of my superpowers is my 371 00:23:26.736 --> 00:23:30.426 ability to move into Acceptance very quickly and to be able 372 00:23:30.448 --> 00:23:33.898 to bootstrap myself out of that doom and 373 00:23:33.904 --> 00:23:37.566 gloom very quickly into. Okay, dust myself down. What's next? Let's get back 374 00:23:37.588 --> 00:23:41.294 on. Let's carry on doing stuff. But that's part of my own 375 00:23:41.332 --> 00:23:45.118 resilience, which I appreciate. Not everybody has. And you have to 376 00:23:45.124 --> 00:23:48.818 go through that grieving stage, that loss, don't you? The 377 00:23:48.824 --> 00:23:52.546 seven stages of grieving. We still have to go through that. We'll have 378 00:23:52.568 --> 00:23:56.386 anger in there. We'll have denial. It's not real. Or 379 00:23:56.568 --> 00:23:59.940 I can't see zombies outside killing, eating people. 380 00:24:00.390 --> 00:24:04.166 It's this just hidden thing. Is it real? So I guess 381 00:24:04.188 --> 00:24:06.520 people were denying it. To start with, yes. 382 00:24:07.770 --> 00:24:10.870 There certainly was a difficulty accepting, 383 00:24:11.450 --> 00:24:15.226 which you mentioned you were able to come to 384 00:24:15.248 --> 00:24:18.826 a level of acceptance of where you were fairly quickly. 385 00:24:19.008 --> 00:24:22.790 For some people, it would have been a real struggle to accept 386 00:24:22.950 --> 00:24:26.640 that things completely changed. And 387 00:24:28.450 --> 00:24:31.278 being angry, being lost, being 388 00:24:31.444 --> 00:24:35.294 pitiful, and yet there 389 00:24:35.332 --> 00:24:38.962 were others that suddenly the flip side was 390 00:24:39.096 --> 00:24:42.462 I heard a lot about mutual 391 00:24:42.526 --> 00:24:45.970 aid, the certain sort of 392 00:24:46.040 --> 00:24:49.322 responses, certain sections 393 00:24:49.406 --> 00:24:52.454 of the community that come together 394 00:24:52.572 --> 00:24:54.520 and put together 395 00:24:56.650 --> 00:25:00.374 support locally. And then you had 396 00:25:00.412 --> 00:25:04.022 the things like the clap for carers, that sort of wasn't 397 00:25:04.086 --> 00:25:07.226 a seed of an idea. And then it just 398 00:25:07.328 --> 00:25:10.774 literally spread throughout the nation. 399 00:25:10.902 --> 00:25:14.380 Every Thursday you go out and clap. And 400 00:25:15.250 --> 00:25:17.760 all expected this 401 00:25:19.410 --> 00:25:22.526 response in terms of the 402 00:25:22.548 --> 00:25:25.150 pandemic getting worse. 403 00:25:26.550 --> 00:25:30.322 But for ourselves, it was 404 00:25:30.376 --> 00:25:33.714 just a huge tidal of 405 00:25:33.752 --> 00:25:37.570 disruption. Now, some people lost all of their work and then 406 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:41.430 at the other end of the spectrum, if we look at it like a spectrum, 407 00:25:42.170 --> 00:25:45.990 others that were just super busy and 408 00:25:46.060 --> 00:25:49.398 didn't have time to even rest. 409 00:25:49.564 --> 00:25:53.250 So there was a big disparity, if you 410 00:25:53.260 --> 00:25:56.940 like, in those two groups. And then there was this dialogue about 411 00:25:57.310 --> 00:26:01.082 who was classed as vulnerable and who wasn't. And so 412 00:26:01.136 --> 00:26:04.470 all of those concerns, there were 413 00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:08.254 lots of things, but individually, we're all 414 00:26:08.372 --> 00:26:12.170 trying to negotiate that period 415 00:26:12.250 --> 00:26:16.094 of uncertainty. And us 416 00:26:16.132 --> 00:26:18.740 humans, we like things to be certain. 417 00:26:19.990 --> 00:26:23.634 That's why we have diaries, we plan things, we make sure that 418 00:26:23.672 --> 00:26:26.660 things happen at certain times. And 419 00:26:27.590 --> 00:26:31.426 we're still now unCertain, aren't we, in that we don't 420 00:26:31.458 --> 00:26:34.742 know if we're going to have this so called second 421 00:26:34.796 --> 00:26:37.814 spike and things can get 422 00:26:37.852 --> 00:26:41.014 cancelled or changed very 423 00:26:41.052 --> 00:26:44.758 suddenly. For example, the Spain quarantine, 424 00:26:44.934 --> 00:26:48.090 it seemed to have happened overnight. 425 00:26:50.030 --> 00:26:53.802 Yeah, for sure. I mean, people stranded in Spain, people 426 00:26:53.856 --> 00:26:57.694 about to take off, people who booked holidays recently, people 427 00:26:57.732 --> 00:27:00.240 who booked holidays in advance and told that 428 00:27:01.730 --> 00:27:05.066 you're covered on insurance up until this date, anything after that date, you're not covered. 429 00:27:05.098 --> 00:27:08.722 And suddenly that's come into play. And I think people 430 00:27:08.776 --> 00:27:12.434 got into this acceptance and now a lot of people have 431 00:27:12.472 --> 00:27:16.146 now found their safe space again in 432 00:27:16.168 --> 00:27:19.846 this, wherever we are. And I think there's a 433 00:27:19.868 --> 00:27:22.870 new anxiety about the unlocking. 434 00:27:25.210 --> 00:27:29.014 The government was so effective in warning people about public transport, in 435 00:27:29.052 --> 00:27:32.760 warning people about enclosed spaces, in warning people about closed contact 436 00:27:33.210 --> 00:27:37.050 and warning people about making sure their officers are safe. And so now 437 00:27:37.120 --> 00:27:40.694 people are being asked to go back to work. There's now an anxiety 438 00:27:40.742 --> 00:27:44.458 about using public transport, there's now anxiety about being in an 439 00:27:44.464 --> 00:27:47.898 office with people and face masks and the fact that offices aren't 440 00:27:47.914 --> 00:27:51.646 the warm, safe place they used to be. They've all changed. You go back 441 00:27:51.668 --> 00:27:55.386 there, there's plastic screens and sanitizers and things that aren't 442 00:27:55.418 --> 00:27:59.214 familiar. Maybe some people are on furlough, maybe the work's changed, maybe 443 00:27:59.252 --> 00:28:02.850 the customers have changed, maybe business is struggling or busy. 444 00:28:03.190 --> 00:28:06.706 So we've now got to adjust from the 445 00:28:06.728 --> 00:28:10.534 status quo of lockdown and the certainty we had about 446 00:28:10.572 --> 00:28:14.034 being safe at home to now make ourselves 447 00:28:14.082 --> 00:28:17.894 vulnerable again by unlearning all of these things we've just 448 00:28:17.932 --> 00:28:20.920 learned about keeping ourselves safe. And now we have to trust 449 00:28:21.550 --> 00:28:25.386 people again. And that must be causing lots of people anxiety that you must be 450 00:28:25.408 --> 00:28:28.220 coming across. Yes, well, you mentioned 451 00:28:30.990 --> 00:28:34.622 having to trust, and 452 00:28:34.756 --> 00:28:38.240 almost that goes back to connection again, where 453 00:28:39.410 --> 00:28:42.798 you're relying on something outside of yourself, 454 00:28:42.884 --> 00:28:46.000 essentially, to either work or 455 00:28:46.630 --> 00:28:49.902 the information that they give you is going to keep you safe. 456 00:28:49.966 --> 00:28:53.714 So we're coming back to that place of 457 00:28:53.752 --> 00:28:57.586 well before we're told to 458 00:28:57.608 --> 00:29:01.174 stay indoors, to stay safe and wash our hands and 459 00:29:01.372 --> 00:29:05.110 all the measures. And we're still in that process 460 00:29:05.180 --> 00:29:08.902 of adapting because almost that 461 00:29:08.956 --> 00:29:12.710 it's like an era where pre COVID seemed 462 00:29:12.870 --> 00:29:16.406 ages away, right, and now we're 463 00:29:16.518 --> 00:29:20.266 going to another sort 464 00:29:20.288 --> 00:29:24.122 of phase of where, okay, lockdown is 465 00:29:24.176 --> 00:29:27.774 easing. We don't know for sure how that looks 466 00:29:27.812 --> 00:29:30.878 like, okay, we might know that we need to wash our hands more. We know 467 00:29:30.884 --> 00:29:33.822 there's more screens, we know we need to observe social 468 00:29:33.876 --> 00:29:37.638 distancing where we can, but we don't 469 00:29:37.674 --> 00:29:41.506 know. Well, are the events that we want to go to, are they 470 00:29:41.528 --> 00:29:45.234 coming back? Are the arts coming back? Our 471 00:29:45.272 --> 00:29:48.802 theatre coming back? Our films, how we watch 472 00:29:48.856 --> 00:29:52.054 films, are they coming back? All the 473 00:29:52.092 --> 00:29:55.686 gatherings that perhaps we used to just take for 474 00:29:55.708 --> 00:29:58.550 Grant, we book to go somewhere. 475 00:30:00.650 --> 00:30:04.266 Even life has got more complicated again. 476 00:30:04.368 --> 00:30:08.026 If you go to a venue, they expect you to 477 00:30:08.048 --> 00:30:11.402 book because you can't just walk 478 00:30:11.456 --> 00:30:15.050 in. Because the track and trace 479 00:30:15.390 --> 00:30:19.182 thing, if you're close proximity with others and you think, well, 480 00:30:19.236 --> 00:30:23.070 if I go somewhere and then they contact 481 00:30:23.140 --> 00:30:26.866 you, somebody contacts you and says, oh, you've been in close proximity with 482 00:30:26.888 --> 00:30:30.626 somebody that's been affected, then do you have 483 00:30:30.648 --> 00:30:34.098 to then remember where you've been 484 00:30:34.264 --> 00:30:37.986 to, then pass on the information to the 485 00:30:38.008 --> 00:30:41.640 authorities so that they can contact other people that 486 00:30:42.170 --> 00:30:45.702 you've been, so that the whole 487 00:30:45.756 --> 00:30:49.206 thing becomes a big. And you can't keep track of it 488 00:30:49.228 --> 00:30:52.506 and sort of like, isn't it just easier just to stay 489 00:30:52.528 --> 00:30:56.218 indoors then if we 490 00:30:56.224 --> 00:30:58.700 always keep ourselves to ourselves? Well, 491 00:30:59.790 --> 00:31:01.100 that has its 492 00:31:02.830 --> 00:31:06.350 adverse effects, especially socially. 493 00:31:11.010 --> 00:31:13.920 We have found that 494 00:31:15.010 --> 00:31:18.450 the adverse effects to our mental health and our well being 495 00:31:18.600 --> 00:31:22.366 from being apart, we've 496 00:31:22.398 --> 00:31:25.826 become less happy as individuals. We're not functioning as 497 00:31:25.848 --> 00:31:29.646 well because the other things that normally 498 00:31:29.758 --> 00:31:32.390 keep us well, we've been denied. 499 00:31:33.930 --> 00:31:37.606 Yeah, I'm looking at the news like everybody does on 500 00:31:37.628 --> 00:31:40.454 a. I don't look at it on this or a daily basis. I don't think 501 00:31:40.492 --> 00:31:44.198 my mental health would stand looking at the news too often. But what I'm picking 502 00:31:44.214 --> 00:31:47.562 up on is look at some of the big corporate decisions, say 503 00:31:47.616 --> 00:31:51.386 airlines mothballing or scrapping their fleet of seven, 504 00:31:51.408 --> 00:31:55.022 four seven and other long haul flights. Basically, 505 00:31:55.156 --> 00:31:58.510 their message is saying we don't expect air travel to recover 506 00:31:58.930 --> 00:32:02.750 whatever, certainly not for 24 months, 507 00:32:02.820 --> 00:32:06.506 two years. We look at the film industries. 508 00:32:06.698 --> 00:32:10.410 Disney and other big film producers have indefinitely 509 00:32:10.490 --> 00:32:14.334 postponed the release of some of the blockbusters that were scheduled for this year. Indefinitely 510 00:32:14.382 --> 00:32:18.226 postponed to me, says twelve to 18 months is kind of indefinite, isn't it? 511 00:32:18.248 --> 00:32:21.480 That's kind of a long time. So they're saying that 512 00:32:22.570 --> 00:32:26.242 they don't see film revenue going back to cinemas anytime 513 00:32:26.306 --> 00:32:30.038 soon. We 514 00:32:30.044 --> 00:32:33.238 were living in a world where we thought lockdown will come to an end, and 515 00:32:33.244 --> 00:32:36.966 now we're realising that this lockdown is going to be, or the 516 00:32:36.988 --> 00:32:39.546 virus is going to be with us for at least 18 months, till we get 517 00:32:39.568 --> 00:32:43.018 a vaccine, till we can prove the vaccine works. So we're going to have to 518 00:32:43.024 --> 00:32:46.110 be cautious for a long time. That's going to change all of our ways of 519 00:32:46.180 --> 00:32:49.070 human interaction. We spent 520 00:32:49.570 --> 00:32:53.326 decades of evolution going from 521 00:32:53.508 --> 00:32:57.194 cubicles and offices to open plan spaces. Banks 522 00:32:57.242 --> 00:33:00.738 went from environments where there's all security conscious to open 523 00:33:00.824 --> 00:33:04.674 plan, no screens, because we started to 524 00:33:04.712 --> 00:33:08.418 value face to face human contact. And now we're almost winding the 525 00:33:08.424 --> 00:33:12.094 clock back 2030 years, where we're putting barriers 526 00:33:12.142 --> 00:33:15.758 between humans again. I was at the checkouts, I think it was 527 00:33:15.784 --> 00:33:19.414 Primark at the weekend, and there's perspective screens between these 528 00:33:19.452 --> 00:33:22.598 tills. There's now a bigger queue to get in the shop than there is at 529 00:33:22.604 --> 00:33:25.158 the tills. And that's quite a saying something. In the old days, you used to 530 00:33:25.164 --> 00:33:27.878 queue for like, half an hour at the tills in Primark, but now you queue 531 00:33:27.894 --> 00:33:31.020 for half an hour to get in and the tills are empty. So 532 00:33:31.710 --> 00:33:34.540 we have to relearn different things. And 533 00:33:35.230 --> 00:33:38.534 we're now learning what times a day it's better to go shopping, 534 00:33:38.662 --> 00:33:42.186 so you're actually better off taking a half day during the week and going shopping 535 00:33:42.218 --> 00:33:45.966 at 03:00 p.m. On a Thursday afternoon because it's empty, whereas trying 536 00:33:45.988 --> 00:33:48.686 to go Saturday morning, you're queuing in a place. We have to relearn all this 537 00:33:48.708 --> 00:33:52.514 stuff. So this must be having. I would consider 538 00:33:52.552 --> 00:33:55.954 myself a fairly resilient and adaptable person, but there must be people who 539 00:33:55.992 --> 00:33:59.380 are really struggling to come to terms with this and 540 00:33:59.750 --> 00:34:03.506 bring this back to well being and mental health. And when you 541 00:34:03.528 --> 00:34:07.346 see these messages coming out of large organisations, and governments. It's 542 00:34:07.378 --> 00:34:10.598 really difficult to plan for the future. As you said, we all have diaries we 543 00:34:10.604 --> 00:34:14.166 want to be able to plan. You can't really plan on what you're doing in 544 00:34:14.188 --> 00:34:17.018 September. You can't really plan what you're going to do for Christmas. Now can I 545 00:34:17.024 --> 00:34:20.746 have my family? Can I have my family? Some 546 00:34:20.768 --> 00:34:24.286 of these things we just can't plan anymore. I 547 00:34:24.308 --> 00:34:28.030 think our plans 548 00:34:28.450 --> 00:34:31.230 as a whole might evolve 549 00:34:31.570 --> 00:34:35.086 around staying closer, staying much more 550 00:34:35.108 --> 00:34:38.750 local to ourselves that maybe don't necessarily 551 00:34:38.830 --> 00:34:40.770 involve travel at this stage. 552 00:34:44.470 --> 00:34:48.226 I watched a little input over the weekend about all 553 00:34:48.248 --> 00:34:51.160 the provisions they've put into airports. For example, 554 00:34:52.010 --> 00:34:55.734 the sanitization of all the touch points like on 555 00:34:55.772 --> 00:34:59.010 escalator rails and trolleys. 556 00:34:59.170 --> 00:35:01.750 And they have remote 557 00:35:02.590 --> 00:35:06.394 temperature monitoring of people. So to 558 00:35:06.432 --> 00:35:09.340 try and spot people who might have 559 00:35:10.190 --> 00:35:13.946 a fever or a temperature, which all those measures is 560 00:35:13.968 --> 00:35:17.600 to make the airport more safe. Okay. 561 00:35:18.850 --> 00:35:22.240 However, ultimately it doesn't stop 562 00:35:23.330 --> 00:35:27.166 anybody getting on a plane. Once they're on that plane, you still could be sat 563 00:35:27.198 --> 00:35:30.786 next to somebody who's got COVID. And that 564 00:35:30.968 --> 00:35:32.980 is one of those 565 00:35:35.030 --> 00:35:38.786 mean we've all flown where on 566 00:35:38.808 --> 00:35:42.594 a flight. I'm not sure about 567 00:35:42.632 --> 00:35:46.374 Yu Gi oh. But I'm more adverse to cattle class, as it were. 568 00:35:46.412 --> 00:35:50.262 The economy class, where people are bunched very 569 00:35:50.316 --> 00:35:54.074 close together. And the concept of the whole 570 00:35:54.112 --> 00:35:57.546 seating plan is they are trying to sell as 571 00:35:57.568 --> 00:36:01.354 many seats as possible to make 572 00:36:01.472 --> 00:36:04.730 the flight viable, to even be in the sky. 573 00:36:05.410 --> 00:36:08.110 So the numbers of capacity 574 00:36:09.730 --> 00:36:13.194 is an issue and that goes across to whether it's a plane 575 00:36:13.322 --> 00:36:17.070 or whether it's a restaurant, in a business or a theatre 576 00:36:18.470 --> 00:36:21.954 even. Okay, in theory, these places can 577 00:36:21.992 --> 00:36:25.374 open. But is it financially viable 578 00:36:25.502 --> 00:36:29.258 if in a theatre you've got to spread 579 00:36:29.294 --> 00:36:33.138 everybody out and you're taking perhaps 580 00:36:33.234 --> 00:36:36.822 30% of people if they 581 00:36:36.876 --> 00:36:39.880 come, if they want to come, 582 00:36:40.410 --> 00:36:44.106 and it will take a long time 583 00:36:44.288 --> 00:36:47.754 to build that back up. But 584 00:36:47.952 --> 00:36:51.546 the costs of running the 585 00:36:51.568 --> 00:36:54.720 infrastructure for like a theatre or plane company, 586 00:36:55.410 --> 00:36:59.200 huge upfront to have that. 587 00:37:00.210 --> 00:37:03.360 Yet there is uncertainty about 588 00:37:06.290 --> 00:37:10.034 whether those businesses are still viable, even if they can open 589 00:37:10.072 --> 00:37:13.666 now. That has an 590 00:37:13.688 --> 00:37:17.266 impact on all of us in how we live our 591 00:37:17.288 --> 00:37:20.374 lives. Some 592 00:37:20.412 --> 00:37:23.960 areas are still yet to 593 00:37:25.050 --> 00:37:28.566 return. If you want a tattoo, for example, you can't get 594 00:37:28.588 --> 00:37:32.426 one. You can't even have 595 00:37:32.448 --> 00:37:35.930 your eyebrows done or your laser or 596 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:39.450 waxing still, can you? I think there's still personal 597 00:37:39.520 --> 00:37:42.934 things. Any personal contact in your face is hard, isn't 598 00:37:42.982 --> 00:37:46.414 it? Yes. Okay. As a 599 00:37:46.452 --> 00:37:49.994 consumer, you think, isn't it inconvenient that I can't 600 00:37:50.042 --> 00:37:53.440 access these things? However, for the person, 601 00:37:54.130 --> 00:37:57.970 the business, providing those services, it's their livelihood. 602 00:38:00.950 --> 00:38:04.226 At a time when they've got no income, they're having to invest in PPE, they 603 00:38:04.248 --> 00:38:07.906 have to invest in screening, they're having to change the capacity and the 604 00:38:07.928 --> 00:38:10.930 orientation of their premises to cope with people. 605 00:38:11.080 --> 00:38:14.518 And without any real knowledge of who's going to 606 00:38:14.524 --> 00:38:18.278 return, even if people are allowed to return, who's going to. 607 00:38:18.364 --> 00:38:22.040 I haven't had my nails done now for like, four months and I'm thinking, 608 00:38:22.570 --> 00:38:26.346 I've got out the habit. I could probably wean myself off it or 609 00:38:26.368 --> 00:38:30.074 even learn to paint them myself. Now, will I go 610 00:38:30.112 --> 00:38:33.766 back? And some people are saying, well, I've let my hair go grey 611 00:38:33.878 --> 00:38:37.306 and I quite kind of quite like the badger look. And maybe people are going 612 00:38:37.328 --> 00:38:39.806 to sort of say, well, I'm taking this opportunity to go natural. I've always wanted 613 00:38:39.828 --> 00:38:43.566 to grow my hair out, so now here's a chance. So I 614 00:38:43.588 --> 00:38:47.054 think we're going to change our habits for some of these businesses. The coffee shop 615 00:38:47.092 --> 00:38:50.878 culture we were developing. Will we go back to the 616 00:38:50.884 --> 00:38:54.306 coffee shop culture? I went to the pub on Friday for a couple of 617 00:38:54.328 --> 00:38:58.146 drinks in the evening, and a pub that normally has a capacity of 618 00:38:58.168 --> 00:39:01.620 two or 300 was probably about 20 people in there 619 00:39:02.090 --> 00:39:05.714 and there was room for more. It wasn't like that was the capacity. 620 00:39:05.842 --> 00:39:09.506 So people are just not going to the pub, people are not going to restaurants 621 00:39:09.538 --> 00:39:13.366 anymore, and you can't just turn the tap on. If you 622 00:39:13.388 --> 00:39:16.746 talk about theatre, you're going to have to have all that time 623 00:39:16.928 --> 00:39:20.554 to get theatre itself. Probably some mAintenance, probably 624 00:39:20.592 --> 00:39:24.230 things need doing to it, plus all of the support staff 625 00:39:24.310 --> 00:39:27.994 need to be brought back in, the actors and performers need 626 00:39:28.032 --> 00:39:31.566 to rehearse and come together as a troupe, and that could probably take three or 627 00:39:31.588 --> 00:39:33.626 four months. So you can't just say, oh, we're going to have a theatre production 628 00:39:33.658 --> 00:39:37.166 tomorrow or a new film tomorrow. There's probably a six month, 629 00:39:37.268 --> 00:39:40.878 eight month lead time for when you start to be able to do something. Which 630 00:39:40.884 --> 00:39:44.546 is why, I guess people are saying, well, we can't make a decision about 631 00:39:44.648 --> 00:39:47.618 launching this or doing that because we don't know where we're going to be in 632 00:39:47.624 --> 00:39:51.026 January. We need to have some certainty. And there is no certainty, isn't 633 00:39:51.058 --> 00:39:54.342 there? I think sort of 634 00:39:54.476 --> 00:39:57.846 habits is a very interesting one. And 635 00:39:57.948 --> 00:40:00.902 so from that, there could be new 636 00:40:01.036 --> 00:40:04.774 opportunities in the sense, well, when lockdown 637 00:40:04.822 --> 00:40:08.362 happened, almost the things that most, it really did 638 00:40:08.416 --> 00:40:10.380 focus on what really 639 00:40:13.230 --> 00:40:16.990 of some of the businesses we really, at that point, 640 00:40:17.060 --> 00:40:20.880 valued the NHS, the NHS effort. Whereas before, 641 00:40:23.250 --> 00:40:27.090 from a government point of view. They voted so many times 642 00:40:27.160 --> 00:40:30.754 not to give public sector workers a pay rise and things like 643 00:40:30.792 --> 00:40:34.382 that. And suddenly, week to week, we're clapping 644 00:40:34.446 --> 00:40:37.954 for carers and that focus on the 645 00:40:37.992 --> 00:40:41.814 effort and that there was this spotlight that was put towards 646 00:40:42.012 --> 00:40:45.826 the really valuing people who were keeping 647 00:40:45.858 --> 00:40:49.606 the country going. And not to say that, 648 00:40:49.708 --> 00:40:53.434 well, having your nails done isn't important, it 649 00:40:53.472 --> 00:40:55.820 matters. But just 650 00:40:56.910 --> 00:41:00.090 what really kept people 651 00:41:00.160 --> 00:41:03.878 going, what people really needed at that point 652 00:41:04.064 --> 00:41:07.774 was, yes, if I fall ill with 653 00:41:07.812 --> 00:41:11.498 coronavirus, that I would get the due treatment 654 00:41:11.594 --> 00:41:15.390 and I can still get to 655 00:41:15.540 --> 00:41:19.374 buy food or have food. I mean, the mutual aid 656 00:41:19.422 --> 00:41:23.154 things. A lot of community groups would give you a food 657 00:41:23.192 --> 00:41:26.914 parcel if you were. You could get 658 00:41:26.952 --> 00:41:30.594 a food parcel delivered to you whilst 659 00:41:30.642 --> 00:41:34.374 you're still remaining indoors, if you not have the 660 00:41:34.412 --> 00:41:38.146 means. Not everybody has that support network 661 00:41:38.338 --> 00:41:41.846 that will say, can you get this for 662 00:41:41.868 --> 00:41:45.706 me? However, the other flip side is, the positive is that 663 00:41:45.728 --> 00:41:48.940 actually people have become more neighbourly. And 664 00:41:50.190 --> 00:41:53.820 before, where I didn't know my neighbours quite so well, 665 00:41:55.570 --> 00:41:59.386 getting to know them better now, because people banded 666 00:41:59.418 --> 00:42:03.054 together to cheque on people, cheque on the 667 00:42:03.092 --> 00:42:06.814 person that's living on their own or checking on just more because we 668 00:42:06.852 --> 00:42:10.498 were all locked down, we kept ourselves, but we thought, 669 00:42:10.584 --> 00:42:14.020 well, can we just cheque to make sure, 670 00:42:14.470 --> 00:42:18.242 even if it's through a text or a phone call, is that person 671 00:42:18.296 --> 00:42:21.990 okay? Has that person got everything that they need? And that, again, 672 00:42:22.060 --> 00:42:25.526 goes back to connection? Yeah, no, it 673 00:42:25.548 --> 00:42:29.318 does. Absolutely. For sure. I was looking at your website 674 00:42:29.484 --> 00:42:31.560 early this morning before we came online, 675 00:42:32.490 --> 00:42:36.314 compassionatecupper. Co. UK. And I love 676 00:42:36.352 --> 00:42:40.106 your ethos, says, listen without judgement, explore what 677 00:42:40.128 --> 00:42:43.754 is possible, motivate towards positive change and 678 00:42:43.792 --> 00:42:47.642 guide you in the direction you want to go. So what inspired you to launch 679 00:42:47.706 --> 00:42:51.022 compassionate Cuppa and as a social 680 00:42:51.076 --> 00:42:54.766 enterprise, why is being a social enterprise important to 681 00:42:54.788 --> 00:42:58.000 you? Yes, well, 682 00:42:58.450 --> 00:43:01.634 compassionate couple, the name was 683 00:43:01.752 --> 00:43:05.454 really inspired, again, through connection and compassion, 684 00:43:05.582 --> 00:43:09.102 how when we chat, we have that 685 00:43:09.176 --> 00:43:12.040 connection and talk and 686 00:43:12.650 --> 00:43:16.374 compassionate Cuppa really is sort of 687 00:43:16.412 --> 00:43:19.714 inspired from really helping 688 00:43:19.762 --> 00:43:23.546 people who are going through a difficult time in 689 00:43:23.568 --> 00:43:27.194 their life, but help them in the 690 00:43:27.232 --> 00:43:30.300 way they want the help or the support, 691 00:43:31.150 --> 00:43:34.986 because quite often with mental health services, 692 00:43:35.088 --> 00:43:38.382 they worked quite a lot, a long time 693 00:43:38.436 --> 00:43:41.982 in mental health and social 694 00:43:42.036 --> 00:43:45.294 care, where the 695 00:43:45.332 --> 00:43:48.706 service is what it is, whether it's 696 00:43:48.888 --> 00:43:52.594 within housing, within the National Health 697 00:43:52.632 --> 00:43:56.258 Service, and it is what it 698 00:43:56.264 --> 00:43:59.654 is, and there'll be obviously different interventions and 699 00:43:59.692 --> 00:44:03.542 therapies and medication obviously plays part of it within 700 00:44:03.596 --> 00:44:07.382 mental health services, and that's it. And 701 00:44:07.516 --> 00:44:10.726 sometimes you might 702 00:44:10.828 --> 00:44:14.614 find that, well, for a lot of people, they've 703 00:44:14.662 --> 00:44:18.220 experienced all of those things and still haven't found 704 00:44:18.590 --> 00:44:22.026 what's worked for them. So the creation of 705 00:44:22.048 --> 00:44:25.706 compassionate Cuppa is going from the basis 706 00:44:25.738 --> 00:44:29.422 of the approach has to be adapted to you. So 707 00:44:29.556 --> 00:44:33.022 whether you prefer a certain 708 00:44:33.076 --> 00:44:36.320 medium, spoken in a certain way, 709 00:44:36.850 --> 00:44:40.020 certain ideas, it's really 710 00:44:40.630 --> 00:44:44.340 listening and finding out, exploring. Because 711 00:44:45.270 --> 00:44:49.054 not everybody knows immediately what they 712 00:44:49.112 --> 00:44:51.640 need, we might think. But 713 00:44:52.650 --> 00:44:56.262 when we complain about something, usually it's about 714 00:44:56.396 --> 00:44:59.350 an underlying need that's unmet. 715 00:44:59.770 --> 00:45:03.178 And so finding that out and finding what's possible. 716 00:45:03.264 --> 00:45:07.098 So, quite often we might think it's a 717 00:45:07.104 --> 00:45:10.906 situation that needs changing, but we might not be able to change that 718 00:45:10.928 --> 00:45:14.382 situation. So, actually, sometimes it might mean 719 00:45:14.436 --> 00:45:16.510 changing what's going on in our heads. 720 00:45:17.810 --> 00:45:20.560 And you either 721 00:45:21.330 --> 00:45:24.990 choose to accept or not accept. Those are very sort of 722 00:45:25.060 --> 00:45:28.814 clear things. But the place of acceptance is 723 00:45:28.932 --> 00:45:32.626 something that. Well, only if I just tell you, Jo. Oh, well, you should just 724 00:45:32.648 --> 00:45:36.206 accept this. Well, you're not saying, oh, yeah, right, Ling, I'll just accept 725 00:45:36.238 --> 00:45:39.970 it just because I told you, Jo, your 726 00:45:40.040 --> 00:45:43.620 acceptance will come about in your own way. 727 00:45:44.630 --> 00:45:48.354 Would you? Oh, for sure, yeah. You can't 728 00:45:48.402 --> 00:45:52.178 tell someone as to accept. You can't demand 729 00:45:52.274 --> 00:45:55.978 respect. There's a whole lot of things. All you can do is be the 730 00:45:55.984 --> 00:45:59.526 best person you can be, have conversations 731 00:45:59.718 --> 00:46:03.014 and discuss things so that you can form your own opinions. 732 00:46:03.142 --> 00:46:06.266 Because if you take other people's values and 733 00:46:06.288 --> 00:46:10.014 views and just agree with them, then you don't bring them into 734 00:46:10.052 --> 00:46:12.878 your own psyche. You don't bring them into your own sense of self, do you? 735 00:46:12.884 --> 00:46:16.374 And I think it's very important to absorb 736 00:46:16.522 --> 00:46:19.970 these ideas, and so they become yours. 737 00:46:20.550 --> 00:46:24.066 So you accept because you do, not because someone told you 738 00:46:24.088 --> 00:46:27.634 to. Otherwise, you'll do it begrudgingly or you'll do it through 739 00:46:27.672 --> 00:46:30.902 tolerance, not embrace those 740 00:46:30.956 --> 00:46:34.326 thoughts. I think unless you're willing to 741 00:46:34.348 --> 00:46:38.082 advocate or stand up for your thoughts, then maybe you don't 742 00:46:38.146 --> 00:46:41.914 hold them that strongly. Yes. I mean, when 743 00:46:41.952 --> 00:46:45.082 other people speak, it is about that 744 00:46:45.136 --> 00:46:48.874 resonance for 745 00:46:48.912 --> 00:46:52.554 you to accept. There is a level of agreement, a level of 746 00:46:52.592 --> 00:46:56.302 understanding, a level of resonance, level of synergy that 747 00:46:56.356 --> 00:47:00.094 happens. And it's the same 748 00:47:00.132 --> 00:47:02.954 in life, what we're 749 00:47:03.002 --> 00:47:06.640 experiencing. Sometimes 750 00:47:07.110 --> 00:47:10.754 it is very difficult to accept the 751 00:47:10.792 --> 00:47:14.258 situation as it is because, 752 00:47:14.424 --> 00:47:18.130 well, the situation isn't conforming. If you like 753 00:47:18.280 --> 00:47:21.534 to how we would like to, or prefer 754 00:47:21.582 --> 00:47:24.870 to. And we then start 755 00:47:24.940 --> 00:47:28.630 fighting. We start that fight where we're trying to change 756 00:47:28.700 --> 00:47:32.486 things to make it fit. Quite a lot of 757 00:47:32.508 --> 00:47:36.300 time we're trying to engineer it. And 758 00:47:37.310 --> 00:47:40.474 somEtimes, yes, the situation can be 759 00:47:40.512 --> 00:47:44.006 changed. And we can 760 00:47:44.048 --> 00:47:47.614 influence and change that to make that happen. And 761 00:47:47.652 --> 00:47:51.390 sometimes it's actually about the dialogue that we're 762 00:47:52.610 --> 00:47:56.110 present. If we've got very unrealistic expectations, 763 00:47:56.630 --> 00:48:00.366 then surely adjusting 764 00:48:00.398 --> 00:48:03.810 our mindset can be more 765 00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:06.660 helpful for us, more self serving and 766 00:48:08.550 --> 00:48:12.294 realising which bit, whether it's a situation or whether it's in 767 00:48:12.332 --> 00:48:15.874 our head, sometimes that can be quite a challenge 768 00:48:15.922 --> 00:48:19.494 to identify. And so I might be 769 00:48:19.532 --> 00:48:23.306 exploring that with someone when I'm working with them, what 770 00:48:23.328 --> 00:48:27.002 is possible, because sometimes we're talking 771 00:48:27.056 --> 00:48:30.874 about this situation and actually there's nothing in that situation that can 772 00:48:30.912 --> 00:48:34.682 be changed. So it only leaves that person 773 00:48:34.736 --> 00:48:38.350 the subject where 774 00:48:38.420 --> 00:48:42.254 and if possible, to change something about them so that 775 00:48:42.292 --> 00:48:45.694 they can feel differently, so that they can move on. 776 00:48:45.892 --> 00:48:49.570 Because quite often we might be talking about the past 777 00:48:49.720 --> 00:48:53.506 that's already happened, or maybe the fears for 778 00:48:53.528 --> 00:48:56.980 the future that hasn't happened yet. 779 00:48:57.590 --> 00:49:01.286 We sometimes will fear lots of 780 00:49:01.308 --> 00:49:05.126 things that aren't yet to happen and, well, 781 00:49:05.308 --> 00:49:08.326 none of us have got that crystal ball for sure. 782 00:49:08.508 --> 00:49:11.802 Knowing, well, what you fear might not actually 783 00:49:11.856 --> 00:49:15.514 transpire anyway. And if you put a lot of energy into 784 00:49:15.552 --> 00:49:17.450 that fear, it just grows. 785 00:49:19.310 --> 00:49:23.146 Yeah, I've come across the acronym CIA. So 786 00:49:23.168 --> 00:49:27.002 you think about what you change. If you can't change 787 00:49:27.056 --> 00:49:30.574 something, if you can't make a difference, then 788 00:49:30.692 --> 00:49:34.478 you have to think about I, which is influence. If you can't influence something, you 789 00:49:34.484 --> 00:49:38.298 can't make a difference, then you have to accept. So stop worrying about 790 00:49:38.324 --> 00:49:41.746 things you can't change. Stop worrying about things you can't influence and move to 791 00:49:41.768 --> 00:49:45.586 accept and accept and adapt to what 792 00:49:45.608 --> 00:49:49.246 you can do and what you can't do. Because if you get stuck 793 00:49:49.278 --> 00:49:53.042 in fighting things you can't change or fighting things you can't influence, then 794 00:49:53.096 --> 00:49:55.766 that's kind of when your mental health will suffer. But if you can move to 795 00:49:55.788 --> 00:49:59.506 acceptance or adapt around those things you can't 796 00:49:59.538 --> 00:50:03.302 influence or change, that's when you can start taking or having agency and 797 00:50:03.356 --> 00:50:07.178 having power over yourself. Power of yourself gives you freedom. If you 798 00:50:07.184 --> 00:50:11.018 have freedom, your freedom of choice, freedom of decisions, freedom of what you're going to 799 00:50:11.024 --> 00:50:14.470 do next, that's when your mental health can be elevated 800 00:50:14.630 --> 00:50:18.078 and you feel that passion and purpose again. If you live in a world where 801 00:50:18.084 --> 00:50:21.610 you're always fighting against what you can't change or can't influence, 802 00:50:21.770 --> 00:50:25.518 that's when you lose that agency, you lose that 803 00:50:25.684 --> 00:50:29.506 sense of freedom, which is what can bring you down, in 804 00:50:29.528 --> 00:50:32.340 my humble opinion. Yes. 805 00:50:34.150 --> 00:50:37.874 You formed compassionate cuppa. You 806 00:50:37.912 --> 00:50:41.318 formed as a social enterprise. Was there a reason you chose it to be a 807 00:50:41.324 --> 00:50:44.950 social enterprise. Was that a passion behind? Oh, 808 00:50:45.020 --> 00:50:48.486 right. Well, it's interesting that 809 00:50:48.588 --> 00:50:52.374 you asked that, Jo, because in a way, 810 00:50:52.492 --> 00:50:54.200 I didn't realise this 811 00:50:55.770 --> 00:50:59.610 compassionate copper was always a social enterprise 812 00:51:00.110 --> 00:51:03.340 in the sense that it was a service 813 00:51:04.190 --> 00:51:07.998 where I wanted to other people to benefit. It 814 00:51:08.004 --> 00:51:11.274 was really more about, it's not all about Ling 815 00:51:11.322 --> 00:51:14.830 Salter and what I can do, 816 00:51:14.900 --> 00:51:17.426 okay, what I can do is what I can do, but it's what I can 817 00:51:17.448 --> 00:51:19.780 do for you, for the individual 818 00:51:21.190 --> 00:51:24.340 in that pivot, that purpose of 819 00:51:25.190 --> 00:51:28.722 compassion, helping somebody to alleviate their 820 00:51:28.776 --> 00:51:32.150 suffering, was always the forefront. 821 00:51:32.490 --> 00:51:35.922 And within the social enterprise 822 00:51:36.066 --> 00:51:39.414 sphere, if I call it, it was really 823 00:51:39.612 --> 00:51:42.954 sort of the passion and purpose that was forefront, which is great. And I thought, 824 00:51:42.992 --> 00:51:46.810 well, actually, yes, 825 00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:50.682 I want to earn money in that process. But 826 00:51:50.816 --> 00:51:54.070 really the social change, the social 827 00:51:54.160 --> 00:51:57.978 impact that I'm making is actually even bigger 828 00:51:58.074 --> 00:52:00.960 than compassionate cuppa in itself. 829 00:52:03.810 --> 00:52:07.594 If I'm saying to you, Jo, that your mental 830 00:52:07.642 --> 00:52:11.074 health and well being, well, that everything that you do and 831 00:52:11.112 --> 00:52:14.962 say comes from that place 832 00:52:15.016 --> 00:52:18.580 of having mental health and well being, 833 00:52:19.130 --> 00:52:22.774 then for me it's just so 834 00:52:22.812 --> 00:52:26.550 important. All the other issues arise from 835 00:52:26.700 --> 00:52:30.386 having that. If we don't have that, we don't 836 00:52:30.418 --> 00:52:34.138 have health. If we went back to 837 00:52:34.304 --> 00:52:37.962 the stigmas of using 838 00:52:38.016 --> 00:52:41.818 the word mental, well, we, 839 00:52:41.904 --> 00:52:44.220 without mental health, there is no health, 840 00:52:45.010 --> 00:52:48.286 because everything that we think, do and 841 00:52:48.308 --> 00:52:51.674 say stems from our minds, our agency 842 00:52:51.802 --> 00:52:55.470 and our autonomy happens from within 843 00:52:55.540 --> 00:52:58.500 us. It starts from within. And 844 00:53:00.470 --> 00:53:04.130 if we're lost within ourselves, how do we 845 00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:07.730 assert ourselves externally? 846 00:53:10.170 --> 00:53:13.240 That's why it's so important. And 847 00:53:14.010 --> 00:53:17.714 yeah, I want to make compassionate 848 00:53:17.762 --> 00:53:20.934 cuppa. I see the concept of this 849 00:53:21.132 --> 00:53:24.618 compassionate community, which 850 00:53:24.784 --> 00:53:28.246 may take some time, because perhaps 851 00:53:28.278 --> 00:53:31.574 society values. If I had this shiny, 852 00:53:31.622 --> 00:53:35.370 blingy product or something 853 00:53:35.440 --> 00:53:39.086 that I can hold and show you, Jo, that would kind of 854 00:53:39.108 --> 00:53:42.846 say, da Da, this is the final product that kind of 855 00:53:42.868 --> 00:53:46.206 says, right, I'm going to buy that, then that would 856 00:53:46.228 --> 00:53:50.050 be really kind of a quick sale. 857 00:53:50.470 --> 00:53:53.250 And us humans, 858 00:53:54.150 --> 00:53:57.858 we really value instant gratitude. We want things right now, 859 00:53:58.024 --> 00:54:01.798 and our mental health isn't something that 860 00:54:01.964 --> 00:54:03.830 happens in an instant. 861 00:54:05.530 --> 00:54:07.720 It's a journey. It's a process. 862 00:54:09.210 --> 00:54:12.566 And when you're 863 00:54:12.598 --> 00:54:15.962 exploring with someone in their journey, that takes 864 00:54:16.016 --> 00:54:19.706 time. And I'm working. If, like at the 865 00:54:19.728 --> 00:54:23.542 other person's pace, they may be rushed, 866 00:54:23.606 --> 00:54:27.040 they may feel rushed, and I'll try and keep up with them in that case. 867 00:54:27.650 --> 00:54:29.120 But other times 868 00:54:31.490 --> 00:54:35.262 it takes time for them to process and find 869 00:54:35.316 --> 00:54:38.702 out what it is that is important to someone and 870 00:54:38.836 --> 00:54:41.940 what the things would really help them move forward. 871 00:54:42.790 --> 00:54:45.810 That's not going to be a half an hour conversation? 872 00:54:47.270 --> 00:54:50.466 No. And I think you're completely right in your outlook 873 00:54:50.498 --> 00:54:53.986 there. We see so many companies now talk about conscious 874 00:54:54.018 --> 00:54:57.734 capitalism, social profit, all 875 00:54:57.772 --> 00:55:01.586 this. They're trying to retrofit their corporate 876 00:55:01.618 --> 00:55:05.466 social responsibility into their existing business model. And I think it's really important to 877 00:55:05.488 --> 00:55:09.306 recognise organisations such as yourselves, who, from the ground up, are 878 00:55:09.328 --> 00:55:13.098 focusing on social capital first and foremost and 879 00:55:13.184 --> 00:55:16.578 well being of people, well being of society. I completely admire 880 00:55:16.614 --> 00:55:20.366 that. We got only a few minutes left to go in 881 00:55:20.388 --> 00:55:24.158 this and I'm really keen to ask you about Reiki because I 882 00:55:24.164 --> 00:55:27.938 noticed somewhere I read that you are getting involved with Reiki now. I think 883 00:55:27.944 --> 00:55:31.602 you're a Reiki practitioner, so how do you bring that into your 884 00:55:31.656 --> 00:55:34.994 work as well? Well, it's more at this 885 00:55:35.032 --> 00:55:38.578 stage, a hobby in the sense that 886 00:55:38.744 --> 00:55:42.018 I practise Reiki now. Reiki 887 00:55:42.194 --> 00:55:45.800 means it's energy work. 888 00:55:46.490 --> 00:55:49.830 It's a Japanese practise 889 00:55:50.970 --> 00:55:53.610 where you're harnessing 890 00:55:54.830 --> 00:55:57.850 the energy of the universe to heal, 891 00:55:58.670 --> 00:56:02.102 and that both is with physical 892 00:56:02.166 --> 00:56:05.242 ailments or emotional 893 00:56:05.386 --> 00:56:08.480 imbalances, shall we say. And 894 00:56:09.170 --> 00:56:12.846 I had a really bad issue with 895 00:56:12.868 --> 00:56:16.414 my hands, really painful wrists, and to the 896 00:56:16.452 --> 00:56:19.838 point. I swapped my car in the space of ten days. It was like, I 897 00:56:19.844 --> 00:56:23.518 cannot drive a manual car anymore, I had to drive an automatic. So it's 898 00:56:23.534 --> 00:56:27.314 like, if I don't do this, I won't be able to drive. And my 899 00:56:27.352 --> 00:56:30.840 ability to grip things, I gave up washing up and 900 00:56:31.290 --> 00:56:34.934 putting the Hoover around the place, things like that. It got 901 00:56:34.972 --> 00:56:38.226 very bad and I went through all the medical 902 00:56:38.338 --> 00:56:42.146 lines and I was offered a hydrocortisone 903 00:56:42.178 --> 00:56:45.706 injection, which steroid, and I was like, I 904 00:56:45.728 --> 00:56:49.466 backed out of it right at the end, thinking, I don't really know what's wrong 905 00:56:49.488 --> 00:56:53.018 with my wrist, but this injection is just a 906 00:56:53.024 --> 00:56:56.446 painkiller and it's not going to help. 907 00:56:56.628 --> 00:57:00.320 It's more like a plaster. If it wears off after six months, 908 00:57:00.770 --> 00:57:04.526 where does that leave me? And so I went back to 909 00:57:04.548 --> 00:57:08.398 Reiki. I bumped into it quite a 910 00:57:08.404 --> 00:57:11.906 few years ago and I thought, it's not going to do me any harm if 911 00:57:11.928 --> 00:57:15.426 it doesn't work. It doesn't work. And it took a 912 00:57:15.448 --> 00:57:18.946 long, I seemed to really take to it. And 913 00:57:19.128 --> 00:57:22.878 when I finally got to a stage 914 00:57:22.974 --> 00:57:26.710 of recovery with my hand, a lot less pain still 915 00:57:26.860 --> 00:57:30.322 there sometimes, but not as bad. I trained 916 00:57:30.386 --> 00:57:33.734 and so I'm a Reiki 917 00:57:33.862 --> 00:57:37.270 practitioner, but I don't, at this stage, 918 00:57:37.350 --> 00:57:40.874 charge for the Reiki healing that I give to 919 00:57:40.912 --> 00:57:44.586 people just because I'm trying 920 00:57:44.608 --> 00:57:48.366 to develop compassionate Kappa at this stage. And I think 921 00:57:48.388 --> 00:57:52.154 in time I will bring Reiki 922 00:57:52.202 --> 00:57:55.674 under that umbrella. But Reiki 923 00:57:55.722 --> 00:57:59.220 has made a big difference to 924 00:57:59.670 --> 00:58:03.362 how I can get about my day from 925 00:58:03.416 --> 00:58:07.218 a physical perspective, the hands. So, yeah, 926 00:58:07.384 --> 00:58:08.980 that's how that came about. 927 00:58:11.110 --> 00:58:14.838 Well, many thanks, Ling. I mean, we've chatted away for an hour. I 928 00:58:14.844 --> 00:58:17.926 could have probably carried on talking for another couple of hours, in fact, before we 929 00:58:17.948 --> 00:58:21.766 went online, we ended up chatting for both of us beforehand. So you're a very 930 00:58:21.788 --> 00:58:25.638 inspirational person and I love your personal values and what you're trying to do with 931 00:58:25.644 --> 00:58:29.482 compassionate cover. And I'm sure everyone who's listening will take 932 00:58:29.616 --> 00:58:33.450 much inspiration. There's lots to ponder there. So apart from your website, 933 00:58:33.600 --> 00:58:37.040 compassionatecupper.co.uk how can people get in touch with you? 934 00:58:37.890 --> 00:58:41.678 I'm on Facebook as compassionate Cuppa and 935 00:58:41.764 --> 00:58:45.198 I'm also on LinkedIn and 936 00:58:45.364 --> 00:58:48.814 Twitter, but on Twitter as compassion 937 00:58:48.862 --> 00:58:52.638 Cuppa because they don't allow long handles. But it's 938 00:58:52.654 --> 00:58:55.906 been an absolute pleasure and honour to 939 00:58:56.088 --> 00:58:58.980 meet and chat with you, Jo. So thank you very much. 940 00:58:59.350 --> 00:59:02.674 Brilliant. And just so the listeners are clear, Cuppa is 941 00:59:02.712 --> 00:59:06.486 C-U-P-P-A Cuppa in that way. Brilliant. Well, 942 00:59:06.508 --> 00:59:09.880 a hoosh. Thank you to you and for you, the listeners, for tuning in 943 00:59:10.730 --> 00:59:14.070 and sticking with it. I hope that you'll subscribe 944 00:59:14.490 --> 00:59:17.954 to keep updated on future episodes of the Inclusion Bytes 945 00:59:18.002 --> 00:59:21.786 podcast. That's B-I-T-E-S. Please tell your friends, please tell 946 00:59:21.808 --> 00:59:25.514 your colleagues. I have a number of exciting guests lined up that I'm sure 947 00:59:25.552 --> 00:59:29.162 you'll be inspired by over the next few weeks and months. And remember, 948 00:59:29.296 --> 00:59:32.538 if you'd like to be a guest, then please do let me know. I welcome 949 00:59:32.624 --> 00:59:34.554 any feedback and suggestions you may have to 950 00:59:34.592 --> 00:59:36.940 jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. 951 00:59:38.870 --> 00:59:42.338 Tell us about future shows. Tell us how we can improve. So, my name is 952 00:59:42.344 --> 00:59:45.906 Joanne Lockwood and it's been an absolute pleasure to host this podcast for you 953 00:59:45.928 --> 00:59:47.440 today. Catch you next time.