Joanne Lockwood: Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood and I am your host
Joanne Lockwood: for the Inclusion Bites podcast. In this series, I will be
Joanne Lockwood: interviewing a number of amazing people simply having a conversation around the
Joanne Lockwood: subject of inclusion, belonging and generally making the world a
Joanne Lockwood: better place for everyone to thrive. If you'd like to join me in the future,
Joanne Lockwood: then please do drop me a line to
Joanne Lockwood: jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk.
Joanne Lockwood: That's S-E-E Change Happen dot Co dot UK. You'll be
Joanne Lockwood: able to catch up with all of the shows on iTunes, Spotify and
Joanne Lockwood: the usual places. So plug in your headphones, grab
Joanne Lockwood: a decaf and let's get going. Today
Joanne Lockwood: it's episode 17 with
Joanne Lockwood: the title leave no one behind, and
Joanne Lockwood: I have the absolute honour and privilege to be
Joanne Lockwood: joined by Dr. Jackie Taylor. Jackie and
Joanne Lockwood: I met online in a Facebook group for professional speaking, yet
Joanne Lockwood: another relationship borne out and forged by
Joanne Lockwood: the coronavirus lockdown. Jackie describes
Joanne Lockwood: herself as one of the hundred global leaders 2019
Joanne Lockwood: and in the top ten global Internet
Joanne Lockwood: of things innovators. She
Joanne Lockwood: doesn't just predict the future, she engineers, it's in cutting
Joanne Lockwood: edge website research. I can't wait to find out what that
Joanne Lockwood: means. I asked Jackie to describe her superpower and
Joanne Lockwood: she said, I build deep technology which
Joanne Lockwood: unlocks inclusion outcomes for all.
Joanne Lockwood: Hello, Jackie, welcome to the show. Hi,
Dr Jackie Taylor: Jo. Delighted to be here, speaking to you today from
Dr Jackie Taylor: somewhere outside of. Oh, brilliant. I
Joanne Lockwood: hope the weather's not quite as hot and sticky as it has been all week.
Dr Jackie Taylor: Oh, my goodness, no. Much better today. And I'm lucky to be in my
Dr Jackie Taylor: studio, which is climate controlled, the rest of the house
Dr Jackie Taylor: isn't, but the studio is, so I would manage normally.
Dr Jackie Taylor: But goodness me, it's been exciting times on all
Dr Jackie Taylor: of that rushing around or trying not to. Wow, I'm so
Joanne Lockwood: jealous. Ok, Jackie, so what do you mean
Joanne Lockwood: by leave no one behind?
Dr Jackie Taylor: Well, as a web scientist, and I probably should explain
Dr Jackie Taylor: that first, I've not always been a web scientist. My
Dr Jackie Taylor: career started as an aerospace engineer,
Dr Jackie Taylor: but it was disrupted quite rapidly and
Dr Jackie Taylor: rudely with the death of my mother. So I had to take
Dr Jackie Taylor: some time out in order to keep my family together and to
Dr Jackie Taylor: look at how life would carry on. So I took
Dr Jackie Taylor: a two year gap in that and reset my
Dr Jackie Taylor: studies after that. That, I would say,
Dr Jackie Taylor: focused my mind beyond my own bubble. I think when
Dr Jackie Taylor: you're in your pre 20s, you tend to be
Dr Jackie Taylor: in your own sort of bubble, and when you have
Dr Jackie Taylor: a traumatic incident like that, it tends to expose you to the fact
Dr Jackie Taylor: that the world doesn't always run on parallel tracks or on
Dr Jackie Taylor: unknown tracks, essentially. When I
Dr Jackie Taylor: qualified, I'd put together some cutting edge
Dr Jackie Taylor: research that actually looked at solving one of the
Dr Jackie Taylor: problems our aerospace industry had.
Dr Jackie Taylor: It creates noise pollution for our society. And I'd worked
Dr Jackie Taylor: with engineers to produce new jet engine technology that reduced that
Dr Jackie Taylor: pollution. So even as an aerospace engineer, I was looking at this
Dr Jackie Taylor: from a societal point of view, and that
Dr Jackie Taylor: was fantastic. My dissertation gave
Dr Jackie Taylor: birth to a brand new aircraft, and I didn't get to work on it
Dr Jackie Taylor: because what happened there was I was female,
Dr Jackie Taylor: and female engineers back in the day were very few and far
Dr Jackie Taylor: between, and the client that bought the aircraft off plan was from the Middle east
Dr Jackie Taylor: and didn't need me influencing what happened with that plane
Dr Jackie Taylor: into the sky. So I found myself having done all this
Dr Jackie Taylor: pioneering work with no career path.
Dr Jackie Taylor: The MD of the aerospace company, Pilot friend of
Dr Jackie Taylor: mine, said, what we have here is something
Dr Jackie Taylor: quite unique. Let's look at it in a different way. I
Dr Jackie Taylor: said, that's great. He said, so, can you just go in and sort out all
Dr Jackie Taylor: those technologists who don't seem to do what you do? And that
Dr Jackie Taylor: began my career as technology can be
Dr Jackie Taylor: created, birthed, engineered. I was part of the
Dr Jackie Taylor: initial movement to create a movement in technological software
Dr Jackie Taylor: engineering, engineers that actually said, don't build technology like
Dr Jackie Taylor: this, build it from engineering principles. And so I
Dr Jackie Taylor: learned over 35 years ago now
Dr Jackie Taylor: that actually what we can do is build technology
Dr Jackie Taylor: that includes everybody. And what that's called
Dr Jackie Taylor: is something called deep tech, deep technology. And that's
Dr Jackie Taylor: something very unique in the technology world. It's built
Dr Jackie Taylor: from engineering principles about my early work in and
Dr Jackie Taylor: career in software engineering, but it actually includes
Dr Jackie Taylor: some major scientific advances, and that's where Web
Dr Jackie Taylor: science came in. I'd never heard of it either. And Tim
Dr Jackie Taylor: Berners Lee introduced me to it because he made it up. And
Dr Jackie Taylor: so the combination of my engineering background and the
Dr Jackie Taylor: web science, the fundamental web science I've created,
Dr Jackie Taylor: actually underpins the inclusion agenda.
Dr Jackie Taylor: We deliver all across the world, and that
Dr Jackie Taylor: allows us to be able to build technology
Dr Jackie Taylor: which is accessible and
Dr Jackie Taylor: utilises a talent. Specifically. Originally was around
Dr Jackie Taylor: Generation Z, they're 27 to seven today, but
Dr Jackie Taylor: as of my speech at Davos in January 2019,
Dr Jackie Taylor: generation Alpha, they're 16 to six. So that's
Dr Jackie Taylor: me and that's what I do.
Joanne Lockwood: Wow, you just name dropped in there big
Joanne Lockwood: time, didn't you? You just chucked Tim Burns in there. That's
Joanne Lockwood: a bit of a powerful name drop right at the beginning of the podcast Kadush
Joanne Lockwood: straight into the mean. Was
Joanne Lockwood: he must have been very influential at the time, or has
Joanne Lockwood: his reputation grown since you knew him? Was this
Joanne Lockwood: in the early days of the web? Well, we're speaking today on a
Dr Jackie Taylor: podcast that you're going to send out to the world. And he,
Dr Jackie Taylor: over 30 years ago, connected two technical protocols and said, how do our
Dr Jackie Taylor: world. And that's the reason you can do what we do. We're speaking
Dr Jackie Taylor: remotely. That's the reason for the fabric of how our society
Dr Jackie Taylor: is woven with the World Wide Web. But it was interesting, this
Dr Jackie Taylor: fundamental web science, which I'm not sure whether we get into, but was
Dr Jackie Taylor: around levelling up the opportunities
Dr Jackie Taylor: for our young people, who at the time were 17 to seven,
Dr Jackie Taylor: and the technology I built to leave no one behind.
Dr Jackie Taylor: Tim said to me, he said, I found out what you've done,
Dr Jackie Taylor: which is a scary thing. He tends to talk.
Dr Jackie Taylor: He's very focused when he speaks. I found out what you've done. I need you
Dr Jackie Taylor: in the Royal Society. It's the 20th anniversary of the web. We need to get
Dr Jackie Taylor: this thing moving. So it was
Dr Jackie Taylor: the twelveth of March 2009. And, I mean, if Tim
Dr Jackie Taylor: Menzi asked you to go somewhere, you go, no idea what it was about. I
Dr Jackie Taylor: went, and it's changed my life. Because
Dr Jackie Taylor: if he was here today, what he would say is, the reason I did what
Dr Jackie Taylor: I did was to enable humanity to
Dr Jackie Taylor: find its own truth. That's what he says. He says that anywhere, if anybody ever
Dr Jackie Taylor: asks him the right question. And that was what he started that
Dr Jackie Taylor: meeting out with. We were there for an entire day. And what he said is,
Dr Jackie Taylor: you walked in here from all your disciplines. I was an aerospace engineer.
Dr Jackie Taylor: But you walk out of here as web scientists. It doesn't matter
Dr Jackie Taylor: what that means. It means whatever it needs to mean. But
Dr Jackie Taylor: in order to enable his vision of
Dr Jackie Taylor: humanity to discover its own truth, we needed to include
Dr Jackie Taylor: everybody. And in the 20th anniversary of the web for 20 years
Dr Jackie Taylor: on, what he effectively said was, I haven't managed to
Dr Jackie Taylor: do that. We have 18% of the world online, and you lot
Dr Jackie Taylor: are here to figure out how to change that. And so
Dr Jackie Taylor: that was eleven years ago, and now we have over 50% of the world
Dr Jackie Taylor: online. We paste the build out of the web
Dr Jackie Taylor: to give people access. There's more of it
Dr Jackie Taylor: available than people are connected. So anybody
Dr Jackie Taylor: chooses to be connected, they're in and
Dr Jackie Taylor: beyond 80% of humanity, it's slightly different. There's
Dr Jackie Taylor: a different piece to be done there, and that's the piece we
Dr Jackie Taylor: work on now at my company, flying by and rain. But for 80% of the
Dr Jackie Taylor: world, connected, you can make a personal choice and you're in
Dr Jackie Taylor: Tim, we worked with him for eleven years.
Dr Jackie Taylor: And that vision of
Dr Jackie Taylor: I translated that connect humanity to its own
Dr Jackie Taylor: truth, to in my view, what flying binary would do, my company
Dr Jackie Taylor: would do is work out how to develop the technology to make
Dr Jackie Taylor: that vision true and to leave no one behind. So that's what
Dr Jackie Taylor: I mean by inclusion. Wow.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. As you're talking now, I'm just reflecting, I mean I'm in
Joanne Lockwood: my mid, well, still in my mid 50s, just about
Joanne Lockwood: 56, I think so, yeah. Mid fifty s. And my
Joanne Lockwood: life is inconceivably different to it would have been without the
Joanne Lockwood: Internet, without the web. And I grew up
Joanne Lockwood: in the early 80s. Well, Ellis core in the early eighty s. And
Joanne Lockwood: the Web just wasn't a thing. Mobile phones, they weren't a
Joanne Lockwood: thing. Phones. The best you have was a cordless phone in your bedroom that
Joanne Lockwood: connected to a base station somewhere. And it's a big chunk of a brick. And
Joanne Lockwood: I remember getting into it, into computing, desktop computing, in the mid
Joanne Lockwood: 80s, just after the IBM PC launched, when there was, we
Joanne Lockwood: used to call it IBM PC compatible because there were so many incompatibles
Joanne Lockwood: and Apple were still producing their own version stuff and there was no standards
Joanne Lockwood: of word processing units, there was no real standard of communication between
Joanne Lockwood: pcs. We had things like the Gopher protocol and the early
Joanne Lockwood: SMTP protocols were coming out and all these various
Joanne Lockwood: technologies remaining niche about universities connecting
Joanne Lockwood: through their own Internet type. Early stage ARPANET, I think it was
Joanne Lockwood: called. In those early stages. That's right, communicator and
Joanne Lockwood: then Gopher seemed to be quite a leading kind of protocol. Then
Joanne Lockwood: HTTP and HTML kicked in,
Joanne Lockwood: and that's when it started. Even HTTPs wasn't really a thing in the early stages.
Joanne Lockwood: There was no such thing as trust and encryption because
Joanne Lockwood: people tended to trust each other anyway. It's only when the bad guys got
Joanne Lockwood: involved, really, that we had to start worrying about eavesdropping. And
Joanne Lockwood: bad guys have been responsible for a lot of technology advancements, but they've also
Joanne Lockwood: snookered a lot of good ideas, haven't they? Yes, absolutely. And that's the work
Dr Jackie Taylor: I do today as a web scientist. So I work on the dark web,
Dr Jackie Taylor: which is where those people inhabit and essentially
Dr Jackie Taylor: work in the cyberspace
Dr Jackie Taylor: to ensure that we maintain that vision of humanity
Dr Jackie Taylor: connected to its own truth, despite what you've just the
Dr Jackie Taylor: phenomenon of the cybercriminals that you're talking about, despite that. So that's
Dr Jackie Taylor: the work we do every day at fine binary. Yeah,
Joanne Lockwood: I remember, I think I was about 14 and I was in
Joanne Lockwood: geography and we were set homework and it was called sheep farming
Joanne Lockwood: in Patagonia. And we had to write an essay on sheep farming in
Joanne Lockwood: Patagonia. So as a 14 year old, what were my
Joanne Lockwood: options? What were my options? I had to go to the local library, I had
Joanne Lockwood: to hunt through some research. I had no way of finding
Joanne Lockwood: this. And eventually I found a book, I think, with about a page in it
Joanne Lockwood: that was relevant and I think I got a d for it
Joanne Lockwood: because I didn't perceive to do enough research. I spent days on
Joanne Lockwood: this and I think now I can whip the phone up my pocket, I
Joanne Lockwood: can type sheep farming in Patagonia. I will try this afterwards.
Joanne Lockwood: And I can get articles and opinions and journals
Joanne Lockwood: from all over the world, not just from Argentina or South
Joanne Lockwood: America, that can give me the answers to my
Joanne Lockwood: question. So when we talk about accessibility of data, accessibility of information,
Joanne Lockwood: inclusion in terms of allowing people to communicate, we couldn't
Joanne Lockwood: have survived lockdown and coronavirus 30 years ago or even ten
Joanne Lockwood: years ago, could we? No, absolutely not. And it reminds me of Gen
Dr Jackie Taylor: Alpha is who we build for today, so to unlock their
Dr Jackie Taylor: talents so that they can bring their talents to the world.
Dr Jackie Taylor: And it reminds me of a video that a mum sent me, which is actually
Dr Jackie Taylor: on YouTube if you want to go look for it, where the mum gives her
Dr Jackie Taylor: little girl a magazine, a hard copy magazine, and she
Dr Jackie Taylor: immediately does what any of Gen Alpha do because they're a kinesthetic
Dr Jackie Taylor: generation is she swipes it, she touches it
Dr Jackie Taylor: and she passes it back in seconds and says, it doesn't work.
Dr Jackie Taylor: Mum replaces it with an iPad and then the child goes and does
Dr Jackie Taylor: what she's looking. And the thing about
Dr Jackie Taylor: Gen Alpha is there are first generation where they're
Dr Jackie Taylor: immersed in what we've talked about. So I'm a baby boomer
Dr Jackie Taylor: myself and essentially I've done that
Dr Jackie Taylor: trajectory. As I said, I was catapulted into
Dr Jackie Taylor: technology against my will as an aerospace engineer
Dr Jackie Taylor: and came back to now, well,
Dr Jackie Taylor: eleven years ago when I met Tim, to the industrial Internet of
Dr Jackie Taylor: things, which is what we build, that's what deep tech is. And
Dr Jackie Taylor: essentially that's because we are in a
Dr Jackie Taylor: situation now where we can connect
Dr Jackie Taylor: to do whatever we do. It doesn't matter what generation we're from, we
Dr Jackie Taylor: can. But Gen Alpha are a kinesthetic
Dr Jackie Taylor: generation that assume to be immersed in this stuff.
Dr Jackie Taylor: They just have no concept of the idea, it's not available if they want to
Dr Jackie Taylor: know. And so I call the Gen alpha generation, the curious
Dr Jackie Taylor: generation, the previous generation, Gen Z, there are
Dr Jackie Taylor: web entrepreneurs, they're 27 to 70 days and
Dr Jackie Taylor: they influence 40% of the economic spend across the world.
Dr Jackie Taylor: So they have introduced us to the explore space,
Dr Jackie Taylor: but Gen Alpha introduced us to the curious space.
Dr Jackie Taylor: So it's no coincidence that inclusion is
Dr Jackie Taylor: becoming such a pervasive
Dr Jackie Taylor: focus for lots of the world, because Gen Alpha
Dr Jackie Taylor: know no reason why it shouldn't be. And if you don't
Dr Jackie Taylor: believe know Greta Thunberg and her climate change thing is,
Dr Jackie Taylor: why is all this nonsense going on? What on earth are you all doing?
Dr Jackie Taylor: Let's just fix this. And so they are, in their kinesthetic
Dr Jackie Taylor: way, they will reach those resources which are everywhere. And
Dr Jackie Taylor: the acceleration of the adoption of the web and
Dr Jackie Taylor: bringing humanity on to be able to use its resources to
Dr Jackie Taylor: discover its own truth is an accelerating
Dr Jackie Taylor: phenomenon now. So for those of us that were pre
Dr Jackie Taylor: web generation, even pre Internet generation, it's been
Dr Jackie Taylor: a slow path. But for Gen Z and Gen Alpha, they know no different.
Dr Jackie Taylor: So if you know anybody or you've reared somebody, as I have, who's
Dr Jackie Taylor: 27 or under, you know exactly what I'm talking about. You may have
Dr Jackie Taylor: nephews or nieces, neighbours, children, you know exactly what
Dr Jackie Taylor: you're talking about. What we at Joanne and I are talking about today,
Dr Jackie Taylor: it's really interesting that that becomes and frames our
Dr Jackie Taylor: world. And lockdown has effectively typified
Dr Jackie Taylor: the acceleration of all of that.
Joanne Lockwood: Mean us oldies still have this
Joanne Lockwood: concept of digital detox where we seem to.
Joanne Lockwood: I've had enough now I need to reject this and sort of go offline for
Joanne Lockwood: a month or so. But Gen Alphas and Gen Z
Joanne Lockwood: have this concept of detox because they're so immersed in the technology,
Joanne Lockwood: is their channel, their world? Can they switch
Joanne Lockwood: off? Is that good for their health? I mean, are we living this 24 x
Joanne Lockwood: seven world of connection? Is that good for our mental health?
Dr Jackie Taylor: Well, it's an interesting question that, because it's a multifaceted question,
Dr Jackie Taylor: and there's a number of ways of looking at it, but to boil it down
Dr Jackie Taylor: to two essential ways as
Dr Jackie Taylor: humans, the human contact, which of course has
Dr Jackie Taylor: been a feature of this lockdown, in terms of our lack of it, or a
Dr Jackie Taylor: reduction of it, or our limitation of it, I think
Dr Jackie Taylor: most people would say we've understood our dependency on other
Dr Jackie Taylor: humans as part of lockdown, because denying us those social
Dr Jackie Taylor: contacts, or doing them as we are today, via a video
Dr Jackie Taylor: platform, has very much defined things and we've understood
Dr Jackie Taylor: we miss that social contact. So there's that
Dr Jackie Taylor: element of it, but the other element of it is my work on the dark
Dr Jackie Taylor: web. Not everything we access online
Dr Jackie Taylor: is something that is good for us, but how do we tell the
Dr Jackie Taylor: difference? And the answer is, you can't. And we can have a long debate about
Dr Jackie Taylor: that, but the reality of it is you can't. So
Dr Jackie Taylor: I, this week, have kicked off a new
Dr Jackie Taylor: project which is, based on the evidence
Dr Jackie Taylor: we've assembled, safeguarding our young people
Dr Jackie Taylor: from the cybercriminals during lockdown. We call it the
Dr Jackie Taylor: social Guardian and that's because they call it the social Guardian. Jen
Dr Jackie Taylor: Alpha have said, I feel we need a social
Dr Jackie Taylor: guardian to help us navigate when we are online,
Dr Jackie Taylor: the unplug or not. I have many parents. I've
Dr Jackie Taylor: worked within lockdown where we've had this conversation. Don't wind them
Dr Jackie Taylor: up by asking to unplug. Find them other things to do,
Dr Jackie Taylor: and they will adopt the thing that works best
Dr Jackie Taylor: for them. But what we now have is a phenomenon where the online
Dr Jackie Taylor: harm we suffer is
Dr Jackie Taylor: not transparent to us. We don't know when we're suffering. So the
Dr Jackie Taylor: social guardian is what Jen Alpha have helped me put together during
Dr Jackie Taylor: lockdown as part of that safeguarding. And we will
Dr Jackie Taylor: effectively. What we are going to do is build them an app based
Dr Jackie Taylor: on what we've been doing during lockdown to support
Dr Jackie Taylor: their mental health in order to create
Dr Jackie Taylor: this fundamental research which is very directed
Dr Jackie Taylor: at the moment around Gen Alpha. But we are looking at
Dr Jackie Taylor: that some of the online harm that people suffered during lockdown,
Dr Jackie Taylor: Gen Alpha suffered during lockdown, has been quite destructive.
Dr Jackie Taylor: So it's going to be looking in the acute mental health care. But
Dr Jackie Taylor: obviously we will assemble the evidence and the means of
Dr Jackie Taylor: looking at everybody's mental wellbeing. Although we again
Dr Jackie Taylor: will be focused on Gen Z and Gen Alpha and how they can
Dr Jackie Taylor: navigate this world with their own options, but
Dr Jackie Taylor: know when it's not safe for them. And so to be able to configure
Dr Jackie Taylor: that from a personal point of view.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, for sure. When I talk about inclusion and when we
Joanne Lockwood: talk to companies around doing inclusion surveys,
Joanne Lockwood: demographics, when companies say, well, we've found it really
Joanne Lockwood: difficult to get people to contribute or to share. My first
Joanne Lockwood: reaction is where there's a low trust environment, people won't trust their
Joanne Lockwood: data with you if they don't understand what they're going to do with the data,
Joanne Lockwood: what the reason, what's their why for giving you the data. So we're moving to
Joanne Lockwood: a cyber world now where we can't trust what we see,
Joanne Lockwood: what we hear. Deep fake technology. I'm sure you've got a lot
Joanne Lockwood: of opinions on deep fake. We've got a lot of
Joanne Lockwood: fake news. World leaders are
Joanne Lockwood: speaking truth. That is fake. So
Joanne Lockwood: can we trust world leaders anymore? Can we trust that it's actually them
Joanne Lockwood: speaking? When we got AI that can voice synthesise,
Joanne Lockwood: it's not like the old mission impossible. They're cutting bits of mag tape and sticking
Joanne Lockwood: them together to make the words. You just feed their entire speech
Joanne Lockwood: repertoire into an AR processor and you can then speak exactly like them,
Joanne Lockwood: indistinguishable and deep fake. We can invent faces, we can make
Joanne Lockwood: moving videos now and actually synthesise. I mean, if you look at the last Star
Joanne Lockwood: wars movie, Princess Leia, Carrie Fisher had already died,
Joanne Lockwood: yet they had her in the film. Is there a future for actors? Do we
Joanne Lockwood: need actors anymore? Can we just synthesise our own actors and create our
Joanne Lockwood: own mean? How do we trust what
Joanne Lockwood: we're saying? So, it's a really good set of questions
Dr Jackie Taylor: and there's no simple answer, and we need a completely other podcast to
Dr Jackie Taylor: discuss that. But perhaps what I can do is try to
Dr Jackie Taylor: coalesce some of that concern and interest
Dr Jackie Taylor: and excitement actually around that future. You're
Dr Jackie Taylor: painting the industrial Internet of things, which is what I
Dr Jackie Taylor: do as a web scientist. That's what we build, that's what we engineer,
Dr Jackie Taylor: is something that has, since my Dava speech in
Dr Jackie Taylor: 2019, has become
Dr Jackie Taylor: understood for the governments across the world.
Dr Jackie Taylor: Initially, for me, it was to be appointed as an expert advisor to
Dr Jackie Taylor: the G 20. Now, G 20 are the member countries that
Dr Jackie Taylor: actually,
Dr Jackie Taylor: they create 60% of the world's gdp. So they are
Dr Jackie Taylor: the core group of countries, collaborate together on an annual
Dr Jackie Taylor: basis. And throughout that, I first got involved
Dr Jackie Taylor: in 2019 and on one of the
Dr Jackie Taylor: member countries, Japan. But then in
Dr Jackie Taylor: the end of 2019, I was appointed to the group itself.
Dr Jackie Taylor: And the reason for that appointment was partly what you
Dr Jackie Taylor: said, and partly because the world's growth
Dr Jackie Taylor: and how it's been moving forward has been
Dr Jackie Taylor: slowing and shrinking. And essentially
Dr Jackie Taylor: the question they posed to me was, is there a
Dr Jackie Taylor: way of looking at this with a different
Dr Jackie Taylor: lens? And the answer is, of course there is. That lens is inclusion,
Dr Jackie Taylor: because unlocking the talents of our future workforce,
Dr Jackie Taylor: which is what they're focused on, the future, Gen Z and Gen Alpha
Dr Jackie Taylor: require very different interventions than what we have now.
Dr Jackie Taylor: So I was able to, when we had our
Dr Jackie Taylor: digital economy kickoff, which is the digital economies of
Dr Jackie Taylor: all of the G 20, in February in the Middle East, I was able
Dr Jackie Taylor: to put a global plan together with a
Dr Jackie Taylor: 4.4% growth for all of the countries to be able
Dr Jackie Taylor: to move forward on, but had to be an inclusion
Dr Jackie Taylor: agenda. That's the only way they would achieve it. Now, if you can
Dr Jackie Taylor: do that in the Middle east and you're interested in
Dr Jackie Taylor: inclusion, there's nothing that you're looking at that you
Dr Jackie Taylor: can't do. I take you back to my earlier
Dr Jackie Taylor: statement, as I started as an aerospace engineer and didn't get my career
Dr Jackie Taylor: because the Middle east had bought those planes and didn't need a woman on board.
Dr Jackie Taylor: But then I forward that to 2020 because I delivered
Dr Jackie Taylor: that plan formally in February of 2020
Dr Jackie Taylor: and I was in the Middle east telling them
Dr Jackie Taylor: how they will run their world and actually how the G
Dr Jackie Taylor: 20 will need to be orchestrated. So you take that whole thing
Dr Jackie Taylor: and we are effectively flipping the model upside
Dr Jackie Taylor: down. Now, be careful what you do, because obviously you get
Dr Jackie Taylor: involved in this. There's an awful lot to come
Dr Jackie Taylor: out of it. What I would say is, anybody working on the
Dr Jackie Taylor: inclusion agenda now, the timing
Dr Jackie Taylor: is have. Because what happened after that
Dr Jackie Taylor: was the United nations got in touch. I'm a science diplomat for
Dr Jackie Taylor: her Majesty's government. I work with other governments that need
Dr Jackie Taylor: the sorts of interventions we're talking about, not limited to the g 20.
Dr Jackie Taylor: And they said, we'd love that plan. And I said, that
Dr Jackie Taylor: will be lovely, but that G 20 plan won't work for you. We have
Dr Jackie Taylor: different needs across the rest of the world. And essentially, the
Dr Jackie Taylor: G 20 global plan is translated to national plans anyway.
Dr Jackie Taylor: Do you know what I mean? There is an overarching agreement we will move forward
Dr Jackie Taylor: on a growth agenda using inclusion as our driver.
Dr Jackie Taylor: But how you do that in the UK or Japan or
Dr Jackie Taylor: Australia is actually different, because each economy is different.
Dr Jackie Taylor: And so I've been appointed an expert advisor
Dr Jackie Taylor: to translate that to what does the UN need to do
Dr Jackie Taylor: to drive its agenda forward? And the UN is actually very different.
Dr Jackie Taylor: The UN is looking at a sustainable future, so
Dr Jackie Taylor: it's not particularly focused on growth. It wants the future to be
Dr Jackie Taylor: sustainable, a better world for all. For those of you listening, if
Dr Jackie Taylor: you haven't looked up the UN 17 sustainable
Dr Jackie Taylor: development goals, sdgs do look that up,
Dr Jackie Taylor: because whatever field you're working in, I
Dr Jackie Taylor: guarantee you that a core sdg is where
Dr Jackie Taylor: you're working. One of the 17 but
Dr Jackie Taylor: secondary sdgs are the changes you're making.
Dr Jackie Taylor: So now the UN has reset what
Dr Jackie Taylor: I call a new social contract. It turns
Dr Jackie Taylor: out that that G 20 digital economy
Dr Jackie Taylor: plan was a Covid plan. I didn't know that. That's not why we
Dr Jackie Taylor: did it. We did something for three years hence about
Dr Jackie Taylor: how we navigate the new growth agendas. But it
Dr Jackie Taylor: turns out that because of COVID and
Dr Jackie Taylor: 1 billion people have worked from home
Dr Jackie Taylor: since we went into Lockwood, what I call the isolation
Dr Jackie Taylor: economy. And it turns out that that actually accelerates
Dr Jackie Taylor: that G 20 plan. So we've embedded
Dr Jackie Taylor: inclusion in a global plan for effectively now
Dr Jackie Taylor: 180 economies, 180 nations, not
Dr Jackie Taylor: because we did that, not because any of the G 20 or UN
Dr Jackie Taylor: team are brilliant, but because we did the right thing,
Dr Jackie Taylor: we took the right focus and circumstances. The
Dr Jackie Taylor: timing of that was literally five weeks
Dr Jackie Taylor: before lockdown, five weeks before this
Dr Jackie Taylor: pandemic was declared as such. Find it
Dr Jackie Taylor: fascinating that you do the right thing
Dr Jackie Taylor: and people say the world moves to support
Dr Jackie Taylor: you. Yeah, that's what's happening. We are
Dr Jackie Taylor: all working in this arena. That world is now opening up
Dr Jackie Taylor: to look at the lens that we use, and in my particular
Dr Jackie Taylor: case, leave no one behind to use that same lens.
Joanne Lockwood: Technology is moving at such a rapid pace at the moment, as we know.
Joanne Lockwood: And you're a technologist as well.
Joanne Lockwood: I get turned on and sexy by technology. I love shiny
Joanne Lockwood: new things. I've got a despite of gadgets here,
Joanne Lockwood: most of them born out of the streaming community, which is definitely the Gen alpha,
Joanne Lockwood: Gen Z stuff. It is. I'm right into that kind of
Joanne Lockwood: technology. But is there a danger when we talk about leaving no one behind,
Joanne Lockwood: that the gulf between generations is going to
Joanne Lockwood: rapidly increase where if you're not tech savvy, you're
Joanne Lockwood: not adaptable to a new thinking, then
Joanne Lockwood: you'll become kind of obsolete in the demands of the
Joanne Lockwood: future? I mean, there's a huge gap where people are Internet
Joanne Lockwood: savvy, are not Internet savvy, but in the future, we've got to be AI
Joanne Lockwood: savvy, we've got to be innovative, we got to be dark web savvy, we got
Joanne Lockwood: to be savvy against cybercrime, and we still see people having their
Joanne Lockwood: bank accounts empty, where they have too much trust of people online.
Joanne Lockwood: So are we going to end up this massive gulf? How do we not leave
Joanne Lockwood: people behind of my age, mid 50s, how am I going
Joanne Lockwood: to keep up? Well, I think one of the things that I need to
Dr Jackie Taylor: be really clear about is it's changing for everybody. Technology
Dr Jackie Taylor: is my superpower. It's changing for me, too. So where we are
Dr Jackie Taylor: today is only a signal of how far away we are from where
Dr Jackie Taylor: we need to be and our future workforce. When I took that evidence
Dr Jackie Taylor: based G 20, the original piece I'd done for Davos,
Dr Jackie Taylor: I actually did for the g 20 nations. 2 million young
Dr Jackie Taylor: people under the age of 36. So when you want to reach
Dr Jackie Taylor: out and say, what are the. In our
Dr Jackie Taylor: counterterrorism world, we have something called the wicked question, the question we need an
Dr Jackie Taylor: answer to that we can't possibly know. And we have technology that
Dr Jackie Taylor: we call web intelligence. We can reach out to an individual, any
Dr Jackie Taylor: individual on the planet, anywhere, and ask them a set
Dr Jackie Taylor: of what we call wicked questions. And we did that. So we asked
Dr Jackie Taylor: our future workforce, we said, the sorts of questions you're asking me, we
Dr Jackie Taylor: asked them those questions. So, interestingly, 2 million people had the
Dr Jackie Taylor: answers across the world, and of those,
Dr Jackie Taylor: 2,040,000 actually
Dr Jackie Taylor: knew where the problems were. And one of the issues that
Dr Jackie Taylor: you're talking about there is how do we pace that forward?
Dr Jackie Taylor: Was at the core of that. So where we are now is
Dr Jackie Taylor: we've done the work to look at how big that problem is, because you
Dr Jackie Taylor: can't solve a problem you don't understand. And so 80
Dr Jackie Taylor: countries have volunteered their information, post the g
Dr Jackie Taylor: 20 work, and only 40 of those countries
Dr Jackie Taylor: are ready to make that change that we're
Dr Jackie Taylor: talking about. So of the 180 countries that are part of my
Dr Jackie Taylor: UN work, only 40 are prepared to make that
Dr Jackie Taylor: change. But this is the bit that might surprise you. We talk about
Dr Jackie Taylor: technology and, Joanne, you're a technologist in that you get deep dive, like
Dr Jackie Taylor: you say you like shiny. I'm not a fan of shiny. I've got a whole
Dr Jackie Taylor: team who are fans of shiny. But shiny is not my thing.
Dr Jackie Taylor: Technology needs to get out of my way. I can break
Dr Jackie Taylor: anything and I've spent a career breaking tech, and so I'm the
Dr Jackie Taylor: ultimate tester. If it gets off my desk, it can go live.
Dr Jackie Taylor: But interestingly, the category of what we had to
Dr Jackie Taylor: ask across those 180 countries was who
Dr Jackie Taylor: has the skills? But the reality of it
Dr Jackie Taylor: was only 40 countries could say their digital
Dr Jackie Taylor: economies had the skills to copy a file
Dr Jackie Taylor: or to use email. So you're talking about
Dr Jackie Taylor: technologies that are way in advance from that
Dr Jackie Taylor: spectrum of how good am I with tech? And
Dr Jackie Taylor: so we have a whole programme that we're developing
Dr Jackie Taylor: around how do we bridge that gap? And
Dr Jackie Taylor: digital skills becomes one of the core
Dr Jackie Taylor: requirements, because the early
Dr Jackie Taylor: adopters, people who understand what we're talking about and think this is
Dr Jackie Taylor: exciting and want to get involved and bring their businesses forward,
Dr Jackie Taylor: I mean, I've personally got an intervention where I'm going to
Dr Jackie Taylor: help a million entrepreneurs do exactly that and bridge that
Dr Jackie Taylor: gap you're talking about. To do that across 180 countries is
Dr Jackie Taylor: very different. So I think what I would say to anybody that's
Dr Jackie Taylor: listening is what we're talking about, is the core
Dr Jackie Taylor: of something very exciting, that for those of us
Dr Jackie Taylor: where inclusion is our passion, this is actually
Dr Jackie Taylor: an area to explore, but only in the context of
Dr Jackie Taylor: the work you're delivering. And I talk about that in terms of the
Dr Jackie Taylor: value in the inclusion agenda, the value that you're bringing to
Dr Jackie Taylor: the world, your contribution, if you can
Dr Jackie Taylor: focus this discussion around tech, around that.
Dr Jackie Taylor: So, yes, you can go off in a myriad of directions. And do you really
Dr Jackie Taylor: need to know about some of the dark web stuff? Maybe. Depends what
Dr Jackie Taylor: you're doing. But I'm effectively
Dr Jackie Taylor: putting the collateral together.
Dr Jackie Taylor: I'm putting the collateral together to
Dr Jackie Taylor: help entrepreneurs work out which bits they're missing
Dr Jackie Taylor: in order to deliver their growth agenda to meet this new
Dr Jackie Taylor: economy, which I call the empathy economy. Inclusion leave
Dr Jackie Taylor: no one behind. I believe this new economy we've designed for the
Dr Jackie Taylor: G 20, which un is adopting, is called the empathy economy.
Dr Jackie Taylor: And I'm bringing those resources online. But in the
Dr Jackie Taylor: interim, I've got a bunch of free resources I want to give to
Dr Jackie Taylor: the community and your audience. In the meantime, if you can focus on
Dr Jackie Taylor: the value you're delivering for inclusion, and you can look at the
Dr Jackie Taylor: contribution you're making, if you can expand that
Dr Jackie Taylor: to deliver it online and get at least 10% of
Dr Jackie Taylor: what you do online, that's how you're
Dr Jackie Taylor: wellbeing, that's where your customer base is. Maybe we're still
Dr Jackie Taylor: doing lots of offline and one to ones and all of that. You can
Dr Jackie Taylor: get your business and what you do for inclusion to
Dr Jackie Taylor: 10% of everything you deliver, you are positioned for this
Dr Jackie Taylor: new future I'm talking about. Yes,
Joanne Lockwood: I can see that this may not be your field of
Joanne Lockwood: expertise, but what I'm saying is there's this
Joanne Lockwood: anecdote that 80% of the jobs that will exist
Joanne Lockwood: in 2030 haven't yet been created. They haven't even been
Joanne Lockwood: conceived, which means that only 20% of what
Joanne Lockwood: we're doing now will be doing in the future. I
Joanne Lockwood: think, in a way, Covid probably has accelerated the obsolescence of
Joanne Lockwood: certain things. We just take a simple thing like ordering a drink at a
Joanne Lockwood: bar. Witherspoons were kind of ahead of the game in the UK with
Joanne Lockwood: this app to order drinks at the table, and now
Joanne Lockwood: everybody's playing catch up. So a lot of the bar jobs we had,
Joanne Lockwood: the casual labour jobs, which are often filled by young people, are now
Joanne Lockwood: becoming obsolete. We're looking at maybe roles like recruiters, we're looking
Joanne Lockwood: like junior solicitors, junior accountants. These kind of
Joanne Lockwood: roles are being replaced through either automation,
Joanne Lockwood: online systems, AI, or end to end
Joanne Lockwood: processes that don't need human interaction. What do we need, June? Solicitors
Joanne Lockwood: doing conveyancing when half that process
Joanne Lockwood: effectively could be automated. So the challenge there is, if we
Joanne Lockwood: don't have a junior solicitor, how do we get a senior solicitor?
Joanne Lockwood: How do we go from this world where we had to
Joanne Lockwood: build our expertise through our career to become an expert? How do we
Joanne Lockwood: get onto that pathway? So is there a danger here where we lose all these
Joanne Lockwood: junior entry level roles through automation and we lose the
Joanne Lockwood: ability to be experts in the same way that a lot of us are losing
Joanne Lockwood: the ability to handwrite. We never start writing
Joanne Lockwood: anymore. We're always typing stuff in. So how do we keep
Joanne Lockwood: the. Again, going back to the theme, leave no one behind. How do we give
Joanne Lockwood: opportunities to people and retrain them? How can we invest in people to give them
Joanne Lockwood: these new skills they need? Well, and it's a really good question, and that
Dr Jackie Taylor: is exactly central to my United nations
Dr Jackie Taylor: work. And essentially where we are is we train
Dr Jackie Taylor: the machines, because the thing that we need is for the
Dr Jackie Taylor: machines to do what I call the heavy lift and shift. A lot
Dr Jackie Taylor: of the intro work is actually
Dr Jackie Taylor: at the beginning of a career, is real drudgery, but it doesn't
Dr Jackie Taylor: really require human intellect. So the automation of that
Dr Jackie Taylor: means that, why wouldn't we do that? Why should a human do
Dr Jackie Taylor: that? I'm just thinking on my feet here as to whether I
Dr Jackie Taylor: can say that I'm going to go for it. So, for
Dr Jackie Taylor: example, fake news. We have
Dr Jackie Taylor: an AI that is trained
Dr Jackie Taylor: to understand the
Dr Jackie Taylor: human emotions on the planet. What do people
Dr Jackie Taylor: feel now? The one that's in commercially available does
Dr Jackie Taylor: 20 of the 27. I'm not going to talk about the other seven, because I
Dr Jackie Taylor: don't think any of your audience are the cybercriminals, so we'll leave them behind
Dr Jackie Taylor: because we don't want to inform them. So just the 20 human
Dr Jackie Taylor: emotions. And what it does is it consumes everything
Dr Jackie Taylor: that streams. It mainly works on video,
Dr Jackie Taylor: but it does also do some image processing
Dr Jackie Taylor: and it does some text. It doesn't do much text because
Dr Jackie Taylor: most of what's out there online is not text. And it
Dr Jackie Taylor: literally ingests that. It
Dr Jackie Taylor: trains on 20 billion different things every single
Dr Jackie Taylor: day. So it gets smarter every single day. But what
Dr Jackie Taylor: it does is it's what's called advisory
Dr Jackie Taylor: AI. And this is the new career path. The machine does
Dr Jackie Taylor: the heavy lift and shift of what I've described. Everything that gets
Dr Jackie Taylor: created, 2 billion things every day, it learns that it
Dr Jackie Taylor: looks at that against what it's trained, and then
Dr Jackie Taylor: it outputs that for humans. The interesting thing about
Dr Jackie Taylor: this is that's where the exciting work is,
Dr Jackie Taylor: because if I use an example of where this AI is
Dr Jackie Taylor: used, if you are a local authority,
Dr Jackie Taylor: you're in a local area in the UK, and you've got a big event going
Dr Jackie Taylor: on, you want to know where you should put
Dr Jackie Taylor: your resources that
Dr Jackie Taylor: have. You don't have endless resources, you want to put
Dr Jackie Taylor: your resources doing the right thing. You get the AI
Dr Jackie Taylor: to take all the feeds from all the cameras, not looking at who anybody
Dr Jackie Taylor: is. I don't care who anybody is. But is there something
Dr Jackie Taylor: emerging in part of your event space that
Dr Jackie Taylor: says, get some people, mobilise them over there?
Dr Jackie Taylor: And so the human is saying, well, in this event,
Dr Jackie Taylor: that will matter. So, yes, get that squad
Dr Jackie Taylor: of people over there. In this particular event, we've actually. It's an
Dr Jackie Taylor: unconference event, and we've asked everybody to just go to where
Dr Jackie Taylor: they're more comfortable. So in this event, the human says, no, don't
Dr Jackie Taylor: scramble a task force on that. So the machine's done all the
Dr Jackie Taylor: heavy lifting. Shift. When you think about it in terms of fake news, and
Dr Jackie Taylor: particularly the arena I work in and safeguarding Gen Z
Dr Jackie Taylor: and Gen alpha, the criminals are exposing our
Dr Jackie Taylor: young people to awful things. But then
Dr Jackie Taylor: humans have to consume those awful things to know whether we should bring criminal
Dr Jackie Taylor: charges. What the machine does, is it because
Dr Jackie Taylor: it doesn't have mental health problems as a result of consuming the awful
Dr Jackie Taylor: content that's out there in the world, and then it gives to
Dr Jackie Taylor: the humans that decide whether this matters, the content
Dr Jackie Taylor: that is already classified, and it'll classify this content
Dr Jackie Taylor: as mentally acute, mental harm,
Dr Jackie Taylor: or through a spectrum. And so actually, the
Dr Jackie Taylor: people, we're able to outpace some of the criminals,
Dr Jackie Taylor: for example, because people are now employed on
Dr Jackie Taylor: doing the classification, looking at the
Dr Jackie Taylor: classification that the AI has created and
Dr Jackie Taylor: deciding whether it matters to them today, usually because
Dr Jackie Taylor: it's not a general set of things. What matters today might not matter
Dr Jackie Taylor: tomorrow, but equally, if you can imagine that task force of
Dr Jackie Taylor: people that are taking the output from that advisory AI,
Dr Jackie Taylor: if we have an inclusive group of people,
Dr Jackie Taylor: then all of our human skills and talents
Dr Jackie Taylor: that decide whether it matters, not just people
Dr Jackie Taylor: that have been trained through a linear career path, but
Dr Jackie Taylor: people who are a bit more unusual, like Joanne
Dr Jackie Taylor: and myself and any of you listening, we could be part of that,
Dr Jackie Taylor: because we could say, well, to you that might matter, but to us it doesn't.
Dr Jackie Taylor: So we start to be able to look at a lens on the world that
Dr Jackie Taylor: is including all of us and putting
Dr Jackie Taylor: it contextually. So, in this context, this
Dr Jackie Taylor: is what inclusion means, which is not the same as the context
Dr Jackie Taylor: we looked at yesterday. So that's why we say most of
Dr Jackie Taylor: the jobs that we're going to do, that we're doing
Dr Jackie Taylor: now, are no longer needed, because that advisory role
Dr Jackie Taylor: for technology and robotics, because robotics is my area. Being
Dr Jackie Taylor: an aerospace engineer, that's where the machines will
Dr Jackie Taylor: do the heavy lift and shift the boring stuff, because they don't go on sick,
Dr Jackie Taylor: they don't go to holiday, and providing they're in air cool conditions, they don't get
Dr Jackie Taylor: too hot like we have today. But then
Dr Jackie Taylor: we as humans, can bring a hybrid group of
Dr Jackie Taylor: inclusive teams to take that
Dr Jackie Taylor: advisory from the machine and decide how we configure our
Dr Jackie Taylor: world. So could we actually say that as we want to evolve
Dr Jackie Taylor: our world, then we've got three steps to do
Dr Jackie Taylor: it. And for now, we can understand this in this
Dr Jackie Taylor: context, but as we learn more about what works, we can
Dr Jackie Taylor: expand that. And what I say is, it's the
Dr Jackie Taylor: human at the centre of the
Dr Jackie Taylor: industrial Internet of things is what delivers the new
Dr Jackie Taylor: career path, where we leave no one behind. And people
Dr Jackie Taylor: often say, well, does that mean that we'll all work five days a week?
Dr Jackie Taylor: Quite frankly, I don't really care how often we work, we should choose
Dr Jackie Taylor: those things. As we start to understand the things that unlock the
Dr Jackie Taylor: world that we want to create, then we will navigate those
Dr Jackie Taylor: journeys. But I would say those linear career paths, which, for
Dr Jackie Taylor: us, on an inclusion agenda, particularly me as a female
Dr Jackie Taylor: engineer, stopped my career in its tracks. Now, I
Dr Jackie Taylor: found another way in. As one of the top ten
Dr Jackie Taylor: Internet of things innovators. I'm an aerospace engineer, so I
Dr Jackie Taylor: came back in because iiot is an engineering job.
Dr Jackie Taylor: But many people would have lost that engineering career and
Dr Jackie Taylor: never found a way back. So there is an endemic problem
Dr Jackie Taylor: with the way our linear career paths are that don't really
Dr Jackie Taylor: allow us to flex our talents. But
Dr Jackie Taylor: Gen Alpha and Gen Z will just not tolerate that. They're like,
Dr Jackie Taylor: well, that's a barrier I don't recognise, and
Dr Jackie Taylor: that's a door that's closed. Well, I'll dig a
Dr Jackie Taylor: tunnel. And so, actually, it chimes with the way in
Dr Jackie Taylor: which Gen Alpha and Gen Z unlock it. So those 40,000
Dr Jackie Taylor: people that literally challenged the G 20
Dr Jackie Taylor: were, why have you not considered this for our future workforce?
Dr Jackie Taylor: Why are you not looking at all these areas? And when you can speak to
Dr Jackie Taylor: every person on the planet that's connected, that's a compelling set of
Dr Jackie Taylor: evidence that means that the G 20 and the United nations listen,
Dr Jackie Taylor: and I think we should let go of some of these ways of thinking of
Dr Jackie Taylor: things. And the final point I want to make on that is when you
Dr Jackie Taylor: present 2 million people's voices that are not normally heard to
Dr Jackie Taylor: somewhere like the G 20, actually, what they say
Dr Jackie Taylor: is, we're excited about that future. We're excited
Dr Jackie Taylor: that 80% of the jobs that are being done now are no longer
Dr Jackie Taylor: needed, because look at the sorts of things we're going to get to do. We
Dr Jackie Taylor: can create the world we all want to live in. So our future
Dr Jackie Taylor: workforce is very exciting for those of us that have got
Dr Jackie Taylor: investments in a linear career path, possibly
Dr Jackie Taylor: less exciting. But if you're listening to this podcast, you understand
Dr Jackie Taylor: the impact that inclusion can bring and solving some of the
Dr Jackie Taylor: world's biggest problems, then actually, this is a call to arms
Dr Jackie Taylor: to say, see what else you can do,
Dr Jackie Taylor: what can you do? Like I said earlier, about bringing 10%
Dr Jackie Taylor: of what you do online to deliver that value
Dr Jackie Taylor: to a wider population. So I
Dr Jackie Taylor: know the arguments, I know it well. It's the core of my work. But quite
Dr Jackie Taylor: frankly, it's a backward looking argument in my view.
Joanne Lockwood: Okay, so I'm listening to you. Obviously, the
Joanne Lockwood: theme is, leave no one behind and let's keep bringing us back onto those
Joanne Lockwood: rails. And used human humanity, those words
Joanne Lockwood: quite often in what you were just saying. Just because
Joanne Lockwood: we can, it doesn't mean to say we should.
Joanne Lockwood: So, is this path towards
Joanne Lockwood: AI, technology, Skynet,
Joanne Lockwood: whatever the technological nightmare could be
Joanne Lockwood: because we can go this route, is it really
Joanne Lockwood: moving the human needle forward in a way that makes our lives
Joanne Lockwood: better? Or is it just creating a different version of the
Joanne Lockwood: future than maybe going back to the earth,
Joanne Lockwood: going back to a simpler way of life? We're just making it more
Joanne Lockwood: complex because we can. Well, I mean, it's a
Dr Jackie Taylor: brilliant question. And I go back to why Tim Bernard
Dr Jackie Taylor: Lee created the World Wide Web for humanity to discover its own
Dr Jackie Taylor: truth. All I'm talking about is making those
Dr Jackie Taylor: resources available. So one of the questions we've
Dr Jackie Taylor: talked about Web 30 today, whether anybody else knows that
Dr Jackie Taylor: that's in Web science world, that's what we've talked about. And when
Dr Jackie Taylor: we signalled to the world, Tim came to London. He did an event
Dr Jackie Taylor: with me was the 14 October
Dr Jackie Taylor: 2014. 9 October
Dr Jackie Taylor: 2014. And he came and he did event to announce that
Dr Jackie Taylor: Web 2.0 was over. Most people need an explanation for what
Dr Jackie Taylor: that was about. And he said, don't worry about it, she's staying she'll do the
Dr Jackie Taylor: detailed questions. But one of the questions he got when he did that
Dr Jackie Taylor: speech was, do you regret it? Do you
Dr Jackie Taylor: regret connecting those two protocols, saying, hello, world,
Dr Jackie Taylor: and having the idea that humanity could discover
Dr Jackie Taylor: its own truth? And I must admit I was a little bit taken aback by
Dr Jackie Taylor: that question. And he was. And we sort of both looked at one another and
Dr Jackie Taylor: thought about it, and he said, I think the
Dr Jackie Taylor: underpinning point we have going here is you think
Dr Jackie Taylor: that technology has created something that wasn't already there,
Dr Jackie Taylor: but it was. It was there offline. All it's done is
Dr Jackie Taylor: made it visible, because the one thing that's important about
Dr Jackie Taylor: what we're talking about here is the World Wide Web is
Dr Jackie Taylor: a fabric of permanence. You leave a digital
Dr Jackie Taylor: shadow as a human that
Dr Jackie Taylor: allows you to be who you
Dr Jackie Taylor: are on that resource.
Dr Jackie Taylor: And actually what we effectively do is take the
Dr Jackie Taylor: humanity of who we are and create that. And I would say
Dr Jackie Taylor: during this coronavirus, this pandemic,
Dr Jackie Taylor: we've seen both. We've seen an
Dr Jackie Taylor: uptick, a huge uptick in criminal activity, but we've seen a
Dr Jackie Taylor: huge uptick in humanity federating together,
Dr Jackie Taylor: supporting one another. I would say everything we're talking about
Dr Jackie Taylor: here, about leave no one behind, whether we do it with tech and the future
Dr Jackie Taylor: I'm painting or something else, it's there already. That
Dr Jackie Taylor: actually is our humanity. That is what that
Dr Jackie Taylor: know, I'm of the school. Call me Pollyanna. I'm of the school
Dr Jackie Taylor: that I have the evidence that says this is right as well. But I'm of
Dr Jackie Taylor: the school that says the majority of the world is looking not just to
Dr Jackie Taylor: further its own future, but has a social good or a
Dr Jackie Taylor: philanthropy about that. We don't
Dr Jackie Taylor: do things to harm people. We obviously do things for ourselves, but
Dr Jackie Taylor: we not do them against other people. And the World Wide
Dr Jackie Taylor: Web allows us, technology allows us to put part of
Dr Jackie Taylor: ourselves and our values into what we do. And so I
Dr Jackie Taylor: would say we'll navigate that. That's why I say at the g 20 and the
Dr Jackie Taylor: empathy economy I've created out of that is
Dr Jackie Taylor: around that new social contract. We are renegotiating
Dr Jackie Taylor: the social contract at a global level, which
Dr Jackie Taylor: before the web, we had no mechanism for. But because of the
Dr Jackie Taylor: pandemic accelerating that future, we are now
Dr Jackie Taylor: renegotiating that across the world. I'm personally only involved with
Dr Jackie Taylor: 180 countries, but it's happening everywhere.
Joanne Lockwood: I was watching a programme on television last night, and it was
Joanne Lockwood: about a group called, I think they call the Bandahof. They're a group
Joanne Lockwood: of a global community based in lots of different
Joanne Lockwood: countries where they effectively cut themselves off for technology. They
Joanne Lockwood: have a religious core to their beliefs and why they can
Joanne Lockwood: stay together. But they fundamentally are detechnologists. They
Joanne Lockwood: have no technology. They may drive tractors and cars and have
Joanne Lockwood: some. They're not completely isolationary. They do have telephones, but they don't
Joanne Lockwood: have pcs, computers, iPads or television. So all
Joanne Lockwood: those things. And I was just watching it, thinking what a simple way
Joanne Lockwood: of life they have. But they do have
Joanne Lockwood: some paralysed gender views. I mean, traditionally, the women will get involved
Joanne Lockwood: in cooking, cleaning, preparing, traditional kind of female
Joanne Lockwood: roles. And the women there say, well, this is fine, this is what we like
Joanne Lockwood: doing. Okay? They've been socialised into thinking that's what they should be doing. And the
Joanne Lockwood: dressing and the clothing they wear is very gender polarised and they're
Joanne Lockwood: quite comfortable.
Joanne Lockwood: They have a central bank account. They all produce for the commune, for
Joanne Lockwood: the group. Nobody earns money, nobody has any possessions, not
Joanne Lockwood: even the clothes they wear. They want a pair of shoes. They put in a
Joanne Lockwood: requisition, and a pair of shoes arrives the next day. It's the ultimate online,
Joanne Lockwood: in person Internet delivery. But without the
Joanne Lockwood: Internet. Yeah. And it struck me that if we could get to a
Joanne Lockwood: society where we were allowed
Joanne Lockwood: to live without having to worry about producing,
Joanne Lockwood: or we were producing for ourselves in a self sustainable way, in a
Joanne Lockwood: community, would that simple life be amazing?
Joanne Lockwood: And does this advance in technology get
Joanne Lockwood: us nearer to that Star Trek utopia of a
Joanne Lockwood: currency free world where everything is free and
Joanne Lockwood: we all have equity and we're all able to succeed together? Or is it going
Joanne Lockwood: to create more inequity by creating some who can and some who
Joanne Lockwood: can't? Well, I think, again, another good question,
Dr Jackie Taylor: and it'll be what we choose it to be. We associate with our
Dr Jackie Taylor: own communities online. I mean, we are a community here discussing this
Dr Jackie Taylor: today. And I think one of the things that gets me up
Dr Jackie Taylor: out of bed in the morning is knowing that Gen Z
Dr Jackie Taylor: and Gen Alpha have that ethos around who they
Dr Jackie Taylor: are. The G 20 taking
Dr Jackie Taylor: account of inclusion for this was because 40% of
Dr Jackie Taylor: the world's gdp is influenced
Dr Jackie Taylor: by them. So that change has already been made.
Dr Jackie Taylor: And if you, as an economy, need to decide what
Dr Jackie Taylor: you're going to do next, you have to take account of the humans are making
Dr Jackie Taylor: their choice choices. And I would sort of argue whether you're doing it with technology
Dr Jackie Taylor: the way we've discussed most of this podcast, or doing it the way you've described,
Dr Jackie Taylor: joanne, then that's fine. That's actually the right thing,
Dr Jackie Taylor: because that's what this is about, making our choices.
Dr Jackie Taylor: It's not about for me, it's not anything to do with a
Dr Jackie Taylor: homogenised version. This is a heterogeneous
Dr Jackie Taylor: way of saying back to Tim's humanity, find its own
Dr Jackie Taylor: truth, and therefore choosing its own way, choosing the
Dr Jackie Taylor: world they want to live in. That's a heterogeneous piece where
Dr Jackie Taylor: we all bring our own talents and
Dr Jackie Taylor: needs and we navigate it. And that's really
Dr Jackie Taylor: what I mean by that social contract. And it's different for us
Dr Jackie Taylor: all. And for me, that is an inclusive world. If
Dr Jackie Taylor: that community serves itself doing for what it's doing, I mean, it makes
Dr Jackie Taylor: its own choices and it creates no harm, and
Dr Jackie Taylor: it's likely reducing the resources
Dr Jackie Taylor: the world needs because it's federating things the way you've described
Dr Jackie Taylor: it, then actually it'll be more sustainable, it'll be kinder to the
Dr Jackie Taylor: planet, it's certainly kinder to the community that choose to live that
Dr Jackie Taylor: way. And really, there should not be a one
Dr Jackie Taylor: model, there's a multiple set of models, but it's around,
Dr Jackie Taylor: how do we coexist? How do we collaborate?
Dr Jackie Taylor: Say that community got into some sort of trouble and needed
Dr Jackie Taylor: help. I would hope then it could connect. It had means of
Dr Jackie Taylor: connecting to a community elsewhere or the
Dr Jackie Taylor: society at large to get that assistance. But the idea
Dr Jackie Taylor: that they can live like that alongside the rest of us, doing it differently,
Dr Jackie Taylor: brilliant. Isn't that what we're after? There will
Dr Jackie Taylor: be some elements of technology pressing the emergency
Dr Jackie Taylor: button where perhaps they will need to navigate by
Dr Jackie Taylor: the world we've discussed. But if they can
Dr Jackie Taylor: coexist in that way with all the other things we've talked
Dr Jackie Taylor: about, ideally, that's what, as a human condition, we're
Dr Jackie Taylor: looking for. We're looking for our place in the world.
Joanne Lockwood: Social construct. We understand social constructs, we made
Joanne Lockwood: stuff up, we could change it. Everything's kind of a social construct. We
Joanne Lockwood: invented this. But Gen Alpha, Gen Z,
Joanne Lockwood: millennials, baby boomers, these are social constructs
Joanne Lockwood: of generation that are probably western focused,
Joanne Lockwood: probably northern Europe or northern american focused. Does the concept
Joanne Lockwood: of a Gen alpha exist in
Joanne Lockwood: Africa? Does it exist in Beirut? After all this
Joanne Lockwood: trouble, do we have these same constructs of
Joanne Lockwood: generation across societies? And are we in danger of
Joanne Lockwood: accelerating the growth of the haves and leaving
Joanne Lockwood: the haves nots, or leaving the parts of the world that were
Joanne Lockwood: underdeveloped? How do we accelerate them and not leave them
Joanne Lockwood: behind? And that's really the core of why I
Dr Jackie Taylor: accepted the expert advisor role to the UN, because if I'm to
Dr Jackie Taylor: leave no one behind, that is the question that has to be
Dr Jackie Taylor: answered. But it's equally the reason why the G 20 plan could not
Dr Jackie Taylor: be fitted to the UN. Because the world is different. I'm
Dr Jackie Taylor: something called the world's first smart cities are
Dr Jackie Taylor: introducing something completely different into this. But what I do
Dr Jackie Taylor: is, and what I did before this G 20 UN work
Dr Jackie Taylor: was actually as a science diplomat on behalf of the UK,
Dr Jackie Taylor: sit down with governments about looking at the way they were
Dr Jackie Taylor: navigating their path. And essentially
Dr Jackie Taylor: the biggest piece of work I did was in China. So I was in
Dr Jackie Taylor: China for two and a half years, working with the Beijing government, who has
Dr Jackie Taylor: its own view of the way their world they want, as we will all know.
Dr Jackie Taylor: But interestingly, even in China, of the
Dr Jackie Taylor: 600 cities that there are, and there are more than 600,
Dr Jackie Taylor: but there were 600 that they needed to change, every
Dr Jackie Taylor: single one of those was different. In Russia, it's the same. In
Dr Jackie Taylor: Iran, it's the same. In Malaysia,
Dr Jackie Taylor: in any of the polynesian populations,
Dr Jackie Taylor: it's the same. The one common thing we have is where
Dr Jackie Taylor: humanity gathers and creates its
Dr Jackie Taylor: lifestyle, its communities. Every single one is
Dr Jackie Taylor: different. So my new work in the Europe,
Dr Jackie Taylor: now the UK, has left Europe is around
Dr Jackie Taylor: 95,000 cities, 500 million
Dr Jackie Taylor: people, with 6700
Dr Jackie Taylor: people looking to navigate that change.
Dr Jackie Taylor: But that european intervention that we've started
Dr Jackie Taylor: now, the UK, is brexited, can't be
Dr Jackie Taylor: taken and put anywhere else. So the work I do
Dr Jackie Taylor: in somewhere like Indonesia
Dr Jackie Taylor: or Malaysia or anywhere in South America is
Dr Jackie Taylor: fundamentally different. But the principles that we talked
Dr Jackie Taylor: about today, they all apply. But what it is, is
Dr Jackie Taylor: about communities. So the communities in any
Dr Jackie Taylor: of the african nations, well, I never talk about Africa.
Dr Jackie Taylor: I talk about them as the african nations, because whatever I
Dr Jackie Taylor: might be doing or saying in Ghana will fundamentally be very
Dr Jackie Taylor: different in Nigeria or Tanzania.
Dr Jackie Taylor: But even within Tanzania, in East Africa,
Dr Jackie Taylor: the communities in Tanzania are all different, because we, as
Dr Jackie Taylor: humans, are the difference. And that community you talked about as
Dr Jackie Taylor: largely unplugging from technology is a similar
Dr Jackie Taylor: thing. There are millions of those communities across the world
Dr Jackie Taylor: and they've navigated their path. But I think we tend to,
Dr Jackie Taylor: in the western world, think somehow that the developing nations
Dr Jackie Taylor: are behind. I'd like to remind everybody listening
Dr Jackie Taylor: that China is considered a developing nation. It just
Dr Jackie Taylor: uses a different model to our western one. And Japan, where I do
Dr Jackie Taylor: an awful lot of work, is a western nation
Dr Jackie Taylor: that has many similarities. It has a western
Dr Jackie Taylor: philosophy, but has many similarities to somewhere like China
Dr Jackie Taylor: or elsewhere like Australia. So I
Dr Jackie Taylor: think the work I do, I
Dr Jackie Taylor: see the world as a connected or
Dr Jackie Taylor: disconnected community, and I very much work
Dr Jackie Taylor: with the. In the UK, 13% of our
Dr Jackie Taylor: population is disconnected in the way we've talked about challenge
Dr Jackie Taylor: by challenge or by choice. And it's important to me that whatever we
Dr Jackie Taylor: do in flight binary for the connected
Dr Jackie Taylor: community, we must work out what the models and the
Dr Jackie Taylor: resources and the intervention we can support is for those
Dr Jackie Taylor: communities that choose by choice or challenge not to
Dr Jackie Taylor: be connected. The fascinating thing
Dr Jackie Taylor: for me is to see this work go from what was the
Dr Jackie Taylor: original eight countries, the G eight, through
Dr Jackie Taylor: to now, the G 180, and see
Dr Jackie Taylor: how many more options we have. Now
Dr Jackie Taylor: there's 180 countries instead of the original eight.
Dr Jackie Taylor: And quite frankly, I learn more from the african nations than
Dr Jackie Taylor: I believe I ever teach, or I ever. Whatever
Dr Jackie Taylor: I put there, they teach me 1000 fold more.
Dr Jackie Taylor: So I think that, interestingly, if we treat it as
Dr Jackie Taylor: a globalised society, but we look at it as a context
Dr Jackie Taylor: of communities, that's where we start to navigate it
Dr Jackie Taylor: differently.
Joanne Lockwood: For sure. Yes, it's fascinating, isn't it? As you're talking now,
Joanne Lockwood: I'm thinking the future. We've talked about the kind
Joanne Lockwood: of current we talked about the near future. You
Joanne Lockwood: talked to me about Gen Alpha, Gen Z, and how we've got these
Joanne Lockwood: defining characteristics of these generations and how they're
Joanne Lockwood: motivated. So we can't be far away from Gen Beta, can we?
Joanne Lockwood: So what do you think is going to be the defining moment for Gen
Joanne Lockwood: beta? What are they going to be bringing in, what their expectations are going to
Joanne Lockwood: be? Well, I mean, obviously I
Dr Jackie Taylor: get my crystal ball out, polish it down and I've got evidence around
Dr Jackie Taylor: that, but I can give you a real life illustration
Dr Jackie Taylor: and an actual story around that, which I think
Dr Jackie Taylor: encapsulates the answer to that. So
Dr Jackie Taylor: Gen Z are the children of the
Dr Jackie Taylor: millennials. So that's who they are. And
Dr Jackie Taylor: largely they are the ones that are
Dr Jackie Taylor: now influencing 40% of the economic spend. So one thing
Dr Jackie Taylor: we know that Gen Beta will do will accelerate
Dr Jackie Taylor: that. They largely will be the cohort using the 80
Dr Jackie Taylor: 20 rule. They'll be where the direction of spend and
Dr Jackie Taylor: influence is for definite. During Lockwood, I've
Dr Jackie Taylor: done a lot of work supporting
Dr Jackie Taylor: the safeguarding of our children. Criminals
Dr Jackie Taylor: were very prepared for the pandemic and the move online.
Dr Jackie Taylor: That's where they work. So one of the things they've done,
Dr Jackie Taylor: they have accessed our children. And so a lot of my
Dr Jackie Taylor: work has been around that,
Dr Jackie Taylor: so I work with networks of people and
Dr Jackie Taylor: do this work that way. I'm sort of struggling a little bit, because there's stuff
Dr Jackie Taylor: I can't say because obviously, I don't know who's going to listen to this,
Dr Jackie Taylor: but I think that one of the network groups
Dr Jackie Taylor: who reached out in a bit of a flat panic
Dr Jackie Taylor: around something that happened with something that organised
Dr Jackie Taylor: online, was around end
Dr Jackie Taylor: of year get togethers, as
Dr Jackie Taylor: some of Gen Alpha were transitioning from primary school to
Dr Jackie Taylor: secondary school in the UK. They were effectively, it's a rite
Dr Jackie Taylor: of passage in the western world and in the UK. And
Dr Jackie Taylor: so normally, they would have a get together as a cohort
Dr Jackie Taylor: and that had been
Dr Jackie Taylor: infiltrated by criminals. So I worked with this
Dr Jackie Taylor: community and one of the mums said to me, she's a
Dr Jackie Taylor: millennial and she's raising Gen Alpha, and
Dr Jackie Taylor: she said to me, I sort of need some support. I know what you're going
Dr Jackie Taylor: to say. I'm like, ok, sam, tell me. She said,
Dr Jackie Taylor: well, we got downstairs this morning to find all three of them. She's
Dr Jackie Taylor: got triplets. All three of them sat there dressed, breakfasted. There
Dr Jackie Taylor: were two pads, two pens on the table. And
Dr Jackie Taylor: my husband and I came down, they weren't late or anything, it was still morning
Dr Jackie Taylor: and we're told, sit down. You've had how many
Dr Jackie Taylor: months now? How many months have you had to navigate
Dr Jackie Taylor: this new world and how well have you done? Not well. And
Dr Jackie Taylor: so sit down, you can have coffee later. This
Dr Jackie Taylor: is important. And they were given two pads, two pens, and told to take
Dr Jackie Taylor: notes. And within the day, that household was
Dr Jackie Taylor: reorganised to the way Gen alpha needed to
Dr Jackie Taylor: be. And so if
Dr Jackie Taylor: children of the millennials can literally just reorganise an entire
Dr Jackie Taylor: household. And Sam was right, she knew what I was going to say. I said,
Dr Jackie Taylor: you didn't stop them, did you? You didn't argue, did you?
Dr Jackie Taylor: And she said, no, because actually, they had a point. And
Dr Jackie Taylor: if they had a plan, or they were going to help us put a plan
Dr Jackie Taylor: to make our family function together in this unusual
Dr Jackie Taylor: situation, we needed to listen. And so
Dr Jackie Taylor: those triplets, and they're six, I perhaps didn't say
Dr Jackie Taylor: that. So they're six and they have reorganised that household,
Dr Jackie Taylor: and it turns out their teacher is a friend of
Dr Jackie Taylor: Sam's. And so Sam told the teacher to say, I'm
Dr Jackie Taylor: not quite sure what is going to happen, but quite
Dr Jackie Taylor: frankly, this has happened to me. And the teacher, who is an
Dr Jackie Taylor: amazing teacher, said, I'm going to get them to support the class. So she got
Dr Jackie Taylor: the whole class looking at the next year that they were moving
Dr Jackie Taylor: into as part of their transition about what would you change about what this
Dr Jackie Taylor: school is doing? We've had how many years putting this school system
Dr Jackie Taylor: together and what's wrong with it? And I think that's
Dr Jackie Taylor: what it's at. So what will Gen B to do? They will amplify
Dr Jackie Taylor: that. It will be beyond that
Dr Jackie Taylor: because they are the children of Generation Z and Gen
Dr Jackie Taylor: Z started this whole thing off
Dr Jackie Taylor: because they literally are biologically,
Dr Jackie Taylor: as a generation, different. And I talk about these cohorts, which
Dr Jackie Taylor: are not western cohorts, they're global cohorts from a web
Dr Jackie Taylor: science point of view. So we are already preparing
Dr Jackie Taylor: the technology for Gen beta because I'm
Dr Jackie Taylor: lucky enough to have great nieces and nephews that are
Dr Jackie Taylor: already telling me what they need. So I have done
Dr Jackie Taylor: mentoring sessions for my six year old great
Dr Jackie Taylor: nephew and he will launch his first business at Christmas when
Dr Jackie Taylor: he's 7th because quite frankly, he just can't
Dr Jackie Taylor: wait any longer to get this thing shifted.
Dr Jackie Taylor: And my niece is really good at doing what she's told
Dr Jackie Taylor: and I think that's what Jen Beta will do, there's no doubt about
Dr Jackie Taylor: it, because they see things very clearly.
Dr Jackie Taylor: Inclusion is who they are and they want to.
Dr Jackie Taylor: Making the world a better place is the reason they open their
Dr Jackie Taylor: eyes in the morning and get on. So if curious is Gen
Dr Jackie Taylor: Alpha. I'm not quite sure what we call Gen Beta yet,
Dr Jackie Taylor: but I'm looking forward to it. Me too. It sounds really
Joanne Lockwood: exciting. And I think as long as we keep looking over
Joanne Lockwood: our shoulder, making sure we're not leaving people behind, we
Joanne Lockwood: think inclusively and we bridge those gaps where people are
Joanne Lockwood: struggling and we don't speak always through a privileged lens and
Joanne Lockwood: expect people to keep up without the tools. As long as the government, the
Joanne Lockwood: infrastructure and people like yourself are still thinking about
Joanne Lockwood: everybody, that's going to be the future. And didn't you tell me earlier that
Joanne Lockwood: you produced some free resources for the isolation economy?
Dr Jackie Taylor: Yes, as we came out of the isolation economy, a
Dr Jackie Taylor: lot of what I've talked about today is the mechanism we use to unlock
Dr Jackie Taylor: it. But I realised that actually all of this
Dr Jackie Taylor: sounds marvellous, but people need to do something now. So
Dr Jackie Taylor: I've created what I call the empathy economy because that's what I believe I've
Dr Jackie Taylor: talked about to you today. And I've created some
Dr Jackie Taylor: free resources. Before I launched my initiative to
Dr Jackie Taylor: support a million entrepreneurs to move wholly into this
Dr Jackie Taylor: empathy economy online I've produced some free
Dr Jackie Taylor: resources. I've also produced some resources with
Dr Jackie Taylor: the help of the mums that I've been safeguarding gen Alpha
Dr Jackie Taylor: with around the Zoom platform, which is something
Dr Jackie Taylor: we call a cybersafe resource, which
Dr Jackie Taylor: is the way I've packaged what I've learned from
Dr Jackie Taylor: safeguarding our children, and I'm packaging it out as
Dr Jackie Taylor: how to be cybersafe in our new
Dr Jackie Taylor: post isolation economy. I've got all of
Dr Jackie Taylor: those resources and I want to make sure that a, you can
Dr Jackie Taylor: connect with me, B, you can actually have these resources as are
Dr Jackie Taylor: created, and C, you can have some of the resources we've already got, all for
Dr Jackie Taylor: free. Because at the end of the day, we're talking about creating
Dr Jackie Taylor: a ripple around the idea. We're all delivering
Dr Jackie Taylor: value from an inclusion
Dr Jackie Taylor: perspective to create the world that we all want to live in.
Dr Jackie Taylor: And I feel it's part of my responsibility to pass those resources
Dr Jackie Taylor: on for you to all pass
Dr Jackie Taylor: on, because you are part of the early task force
Dr Jackie Taylor: making that change. And I feel
Dr Jackie Taylor: privileged to be able to do this podcast. I love the work that Joanne
Dr Jackie Taylor: does. Obviously, I'd delight to have met her
Dr Jackie Taylor: know dialogue, done all of this. But the reality of it is we are
Dr Jackie Taylor: at the very front end of a change that is a global change.
Dr Jackie Taylor: It's hugely exciting. So I feel it's my responsibility to pass those
Dr Jackie Taylor: resources on and give you the means to get going. And
Dr Jackie Taylor: obviously I'll make sure that that means that you get updates with
Dr Jackie Taylor: anything else that I create, because it's going to be down
Dr Jackie Taylor: to all of us. This is a very big change I'm talking about. So it's
Dr Jackie Taylor: not just me and the people. I know you are all part of that
Dr Jackie Taylor: change as well. Okay, so
Joanne Lockwood: everyone's really dying to download these. Where do they find this stuff? Do they go
Joanne Lockwood: to your website? Is there a link? Tell us. Well, exactly.
Dr Jackie Taylor: So how do you do this, Jackie? That's tricky. So what I thought
Dr Jackie Taylor: was I've created something out of the safeguard because it's like
Dr Jackie Taylor: the tip of the iceberg. If I give you the start point, then you
Dr Jackie Taylor: navigate it the way you want to navigate it. So I've created the
Dr Jackie Taylor: resources with the help of the support of the mums of using the
Dr Jackie Taylor: Zoom platform. Now you may not use the Zoom platform, but you possibly know
Dr Jackie Taylor: other people that do. So you can just pass this on and it's
Dr Jackie Taylor: zoom. So everybody knows how to spell that,
Dr Jackie Taylor: Jackie. Now I'm a Jacqueline and that's
Dr Jackie Taylor: Jacqui
Dr Jackie Taylor: online, because that's what we've talked about today.
Dr Jackie Taylor: Zoom, Jackie, Jacqui
Dr Jackie Taylor: online. And if you go there, that gives you access to the
Dr Jackie Taylor: cybersafe resource so that you can make any Zoom
Dr Jackie Taylor: interactions. You have cybersafe and
Dr Jackie Taylor: do give that away to anybody in your community or anybody you know that
Dr Jackie Taylor: uses it. And then that gets you into my world, because,
Dr Jackie Taylor: of course, I have a chance to do that without the cybercriminals knowing that
Dr Jackie Taylor: we've done it. And then you'll get access to the other
Dr Jackie Taylor: resources that will give you access to the rest of it, because it's how I
Dr Jackie Taylor: create the entry point. So Zoom Jackie online is the
Dr Jackie Taylor: entry point. Excellent. Well, I'll put that in the show notes. I'll
Joanne Lockwood: make sure I tag you in on fact, as soon
Joanne Lockwood: as we hang up, I'm going to go and cheque that myself and find out
Joanne Lockwood: what it's all about. I'm quite excited. Now listen to you. Well,
Joanne Lockwood: thanks, Jackie. It's been an amazing. I mean, we could carry on talking for another
Joanne Lockwood: hour or so, and I'm sure we're down this rabbit hole. We could branch off
Joanne Lockwood: to so many different topics and still only touch
Joanne Lockwood: the tip of the iceberg, as we're saying. And it is
Joanne Lockwood: an amazing talk we've had this morning.
Joanne Lockwood: And I'm really excited that I'm sure the listeners are
Joanne Lockwood: also being mesmerised by listening to you and that have loads of
Joanne Lockwood: questions. So can they get in touch with you on LinkedIn or can they connect
Joanne Lockwood: with you that way? Yes, using the Zoom
Dr Jackie Taylor: Jackie online, it'll give access to those and you'll be able to
Dr Jackie Taylor: connect with me. And my wider work is shared on
Dr Jackie Taylor: LinkedIn. The link is there. I do have an empathy
Dr Jackie Taylor: economy Facebook group, where we can have safe conversations
Dr Jackie Taylor: about some of the specifics, probably even more detail than we talk
Dr Jackie Taylor: today, because there are many pitfalls around all of this and
Dr Jackie Taylor: we individually have our own perspective, so
Dr Jackie Taylor: that's a safe space. And then I have again the Zoom
Dr Jackie Taylor: Jackie online. I have a page on Facebook, which
Dr Jackie Taylor: is called the Cybersafe entrepreneurs, where I will put
Dr Jackie Taylor: information out there that I don't mind the criminals seeing,
Dr Jackie Taylor: because it's always good to tell them we're onto them about how you
Dr Jackie Taylor: can become cybersafe of the new things. So, for example, yesterday
Dr Jackie Taylor: I talked about the origins of all of this work, because yesterday was
Dr Jackie Taylor: the anniversary since 1939 of
Dr Jackie Taylor: when the pre resources before we
Dr Jackie Taylor: had the National Cybersecurity Centre in the
Dr Jackie Taylor: UK of the people that moved into a place called Bletchley park.
Dr Jackie Taylor: If you never visited, you should, because it's one of the
Dr Jackie Taylor: amazing places. And it was the anniversary
Dr Jackie Taylor: yesterday of the move into Bletchley park. And
Dr Jackie Taylor: Bletchley park is where some of these resources are,
Dr Jackie Taylor: too. So all of that, the cybersafe page,
Dr Jackie Taylor: if you cheque the Cybersafe Entrepreneurs page, which is part of the
Dr Jackie Taylor: Zoom download, cheque that out, you'll see all the
Dr Jackie Taylor: good stuff. And then the little insider Bletchley tip, as we call
Dr Jackie Taylor: it, about how to get code breakers lunch. Because the
Dr Jackie Taylor: code breakers are the ones that effectively allowed us to win a war
Dr Jackie Taylor: such that our democracy is able to have this
Dr Jackie Taylor: conversation, say, and the bit I didn't put on there, but I'll
Dr Jackie Taylor: tell you all, is code breakers lunch is officially
Dr Jackie Taylor: sausage and mash, because that's what the code
Dr Jackie Taylor: breakers ate in order to help to crack the
Dr Jackie Taylor: enigma code. If you've got onion gravy with that, that would
Joanne Lockwood: be even better. You have to have carrots
Dr Jackie Taylor: with it. And you go to hot four. If you go to hot
Dr Jackie Taylor: four to eat that in Bletchley park, that's the place that Alan Turing and
Dr Jackie Taylor: the team sat down to eat their lunch. And you can go sit
Dr Jackie Taylor: where they sat and eat sausage and mash. Fantastic. That sounds like a real
Joanne Lockwood: treat. So just remind people it's Zoom
Joanne Lockwood: Jackie online. And that's
Joanne Lockwood: J-A-C-Q-U-I is it? That's right.
Joanne Lockwood: Jacqui online.
Joanne Lockwood: Wow. Thank you once again. Amazing.
Joanne Lockwood: And also to the listeners, thank you for tuning in. Thank you for
Joanne Lockwood: listening. Your support is very appreciated.
Joanne Lockwood: If you want to get in touch with me, please
Joanne Lockwood: do email me at
Joanne Lockwood: jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. I
Joanne Lockwood: would also encourage you to subscribe to keep updated on future episodes of the
Joanne Lockwood: Inclusion Bites podcast. That's B-I-T-E-S. Tell your friends, tell
Joanne Lockwood: your colleagues. I've got a number of other exciting guests lined up over the next
Joanne Lockwood: few weeks and months, and if you'd like to listen to this and you'd like
Joanne Lockwood: to be a guest on the show, then please do let me know. I'm always
Joanne Lockwood: looking for great, fantastic people to share their insight, and if you've
Joanne Lockwood: got any comments or feedback, I'd also welcome that as well. So
Joanne Lockwood: my name is Joanne Lockwood, and it has been an absolute pleasure to be
Joanne Lockwood: your host for this podcast for you day, and I look forward to catching up
Joanne Lockwood: with you next time. Bye.