WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:09.796 Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood and I am your host for the 2 00:00:09.818 --> 00:00:13.668 Inclusion Bites podcast. In this series, I will be interviewing a 3 00:00:13.674 --> 00:00:17.476 number of amazing people and simply having a conversation around the subject of 4 00:00:17.498 --> 00:00:21.236 inclusion, belonging and generally making the world a better place for 5 00:00:21.258 --> 00:00:24.932 everyone to thrive in. If you'd like to join me in the future, then please 6 00:00:24.986 --> 00:00:28.780 do drop me a line to jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk, 7 00:00:28.850 --> 00:00:31.560 That's S-E-E Change Happen dot Co dot UK. 8 00:00:32.696 --> 00:00:35.884 You'll be able to catch up with the previous shows on iTunes and Spotify and 9 00:00:35.922 --> 00:00:39.356 the usual places. So plug in your headphones, grab a 10 00:00:39.378 --> 00:00:43.020 decaf and let's get going. Today 11 00:00:43.170 --> 00:00:46.760 is episode 18 with the title an autistic 12 00:00:46.840 --> 00:00:50.560 parent's perspective of autism. And I have the absolute 13 00:00:50.630 --> 00:00:54.224 honour and privilege to be joined by Laurie Morgan. I met 14 00:00:54.262 --> 00:00:58.036 Lori online in a Facebook group for professional speakers, yet another 15 00:00:58.138 --> 00:01:01.940 networking success for COVID lockdown on online networking. 16 00:01:02.440 --> 00:01:06.184 Laurie describes themselves as a speaker, trainer and 17 00:01:06.222 --> 00:01:09.988 author. I asked Laurie to describe their superpower 18 00:01:10.084 --> 00:01:13.290 and they said they don't need one. 19 00:01:14.380 --> 00:01:17.450 So hello, Laurie. Welcome to the show. 20 00:01:18.060 --> 00:01:21.804 Hello, Jo. Did I really say I 21 00:01:21.842 --> 00:01:25.576 didn't need a superpower? It's incredible. 22 00:01:25.688 --> 00:01:29.304 I get told reminded of stuff that I've 23 00:01:29.352 --> 00:01:32.848 said and I go like, that sounds really good. Did I actually 24 00:01:32.934 --> 00:01:35.970 say it? It's really good to be here today. 25 00:01:36.660 --> 00:01:39.490 It's fantastic. After all 26 00:01:40.500 --> 00:01:44.044 the problems that we've had, the issues connecting all of that 27 00:01:44.102 --> 00:01:47.796 stopped starting to finally sit down 28 00:01:47.898 --> 00:01:51.668 together with the coffee in one hand, the water in the 29 00:01:51.674 --> 00:01:54.964 other and the microphone right in front of us. How are you 30 00:01:55.002 --> 00:01:58.390 today? I'm good, 31 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:03.256 yeah, I'm having a good week. This is even better, as you 32 00:02:03.278 --> 00:02:07.124 say. Finally, after much toing and froing and online diaries 33 00:02:07.172 --> 00:02:10.764 and trying to get this coordinated, we finally made it. So I'm really 34 00:02:10.802 --> 00:02:14.396 pleased that we can sit down and have our coffee together and a 35 00:02:14.418 --> 00:02:18.204 chat. So why do we need 36 00:02:18.242 --> 00:02:21.376 to understand an autistic parent's perspective of 37 00:02:21.398 --> 00:02:24.784 autism? Right? In 38 00:02:24.822 --> 00:02:28.252 April, I had a book published 39 00:02:28.396 --> 00:02:31.856 called travelling by train, the journey of an 40 00:02:31.878 --> 00:02:35.568 autistic mother. And since it's 41 00:02:35.584 --> 00:02:39.156 been published, it's brought to mind something that I was 42 00:02:39.178 --> 00:02:42.964 already very aware of, that there isn't a lot 43 00:02:43.002 --> 00:02:46.372 of dialogue around about autistic 44 00:02:46.436 --> 00:02:50.184 people as parents. I had one or two 45 00:02:50.222 --> 00:02:53.832 people pick up on it, like little conversations that 46 00:02:53.886 --> 00:02:56.840 happen in Facebook threads. 47 00:02:58.720 --> 00:03:02.312 One or two people have been confused and they've made comments 48 00:03:02.376 --> 00:03:06.152 like, is the child autistic or is the mother 49 00:03:06.216 --> 00:03:09.596 autistic? And it's a 50 00:03:09.618 --> 00:03:13.232 both because people 51 00:03:13.286 --> 00:03:17.100 get confused. There's so much about I'm an autism 52 00:03:17.180 --> 00:03:20.652 parent, I'm an autism dad, I'm an autism mum. 53 00:03:20.796 --> 00:03:24.036 And what that means is that 54 00:03:24.138 --> 00:03:27.956 somebody is saying that I'm the parent of 55 00:03:27.978 --> 00:03:31.604 an autistic child. I mean, we might 56 00:03:31.642 --> 00:03:35.076 jokingly call them autism mamas. And it 57 00:03:35.178 --> 00:03:38.216 indicates more of a type of person 58 00:03:38.398 --> 00:03:42.072 who's kind of hanging their identity on that of their 59 00:03:42.126 --> 00:03:45.284 child. And there's a distinct 60 00:03:45.332 --> 00:03:49.100 definition. There's a big difference between being the parent 61 00:03:49.170 --> 00:03:52.908 of an autistic child and being the autistic parent of 62 00:03:52.914 --> 00:03:56.392 the child. And there's another difference being the autistic 63 00:03:56.456 --> 00:03:59.390 parent of an autistic child or children. 64 00:04:01.540 --> 00:04:04.210 So yes, I'm an autistic parent 65 00:04:04.980 --> 00:04:08.690 and grandparent. I have three adult children, 66 00:04:09.620 --> 00:04:13.412 two sons who were both diagnosed and a daughter who is 67 00:04:13.466 --> 00:04:17.316 not. And I 68 00:04:17.338 --> 00:04:20.390 had an awful lot of people approaching me 69 00:04:20.840 --> 00:04:24.132 through various social media channels telling me their 70 00:04:24.186 --> 00:04:27.944 stories and their experiences of being an 71 00:04:27.982 --> 00:04:31.736 autistic person and being a parent. Now we can 72 00:04:31.758 --> 00:04:35.000 have a lot of these chats in safe spaces 73 00:04:35.500 --> 00:04:39.120 talking to each other. This is autistic conversation 74 00:04:39.220 --> 00:04:43.052 happening about our lives, our jobs, our children, our 75 00:04:43.106 --> 00:04:46.936 struggles, our joys, our traumas 76 00:04:47.048 --> 00:04:49.630 and all this kind of thing. But 77 00:04:52.900 --> 00:04:56.716 that's sitting on the couch of friendship in a safe 78 00:04:56.748 --> 00:05:00.544 space with people we trust, with other people that we know 79 00:05:00.582 --> 00:05:04.212 are autistic, we know their parents and we kind of 80 00:05:04.266 --> 00:05:08.070 just get it. We're sitting within our own community. 81 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:12.756 There does not seem to be an awful lot 82 00:05:12.778 --> 00:05:16.456 of dialogue about the autistic person as a 83 00:05:16.478 --> 00:05:20.250 parent. And it's everybody's right 84 00:05:21.580 --> 00:05:24.730 to be able to have their own children 85 00:05:25.100 --> 00:05:28.412 and to raise their own families, whether they're children by 86 00:05:28.466 --> 00:05:31.260 birth or their children by adoption. 87 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:35.948 However we acquire our children, it's a basic human 88 00:05:36.114 --> 00:05:39.470 right, it's actually a basic human need. 89 00:05:40.980 --> 00:05:44.736 And the reason why this came about so strongly is that 90 00:05:44.838 --> 00:05:46.880 in the training that I deliver, 91 00:05:48.500 --> 00:05:51.580 I deliver autism training to various 92 00:05:51.660 --> 00:05:55.504 professionals. I've spoken to parent groups, I've spoken 93 00:05:55.552 --> 00:05:59.316 to parents of incoming students at the university I 94 00:05:59.338 --> 00:06:02.756 used to work at. This is all in the realm of 95 00:06:02.938 --> 00:06:06.324 autism world and all in the role of an autistic 96 00:06:06.372 --> 00:06:09.610 person. And I still hear 97 00:06:10.060 --> 00:06:12.792 people saying that their child has been 98 00:06:12.846 --> 00:06:16.504 diagnosed or however long ago they were 99 00:06:16.542 --> 00:06:20.120 diagnosed. And I was told my child would 100 00:06:20.190 --> 00:06:23.848 never. And then we get a big shopping list of things that they're 101 00:06:23.864 --> 00:06:27.500 never going to be able to achieve, they're never going to be able to 102 00:06:27.570 --> 00:06:31.244 work, they're never going to be able to live independently, they're never going 103 00:06:31.282 --> 00:06:35.056 to form successful relationship, they're never going to be able to learn how 104 00:06:35.078 --> 00:06:38.636 to drive. They're never going to be daddy, daddy, daddy, dad. 105 00:06:38.748 --> 00:06:42.252 All of those things that human beings 106 00:06:42.316 --> 00:06:45.972 expect their children to be able to do. Now I 107 00:06:46.026 --> 00:06:49.856 say in my training, that sets the bar of expectation 108 00:06:49.968 --> 00:06:53.350 very low. If we do not expect 109 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:57.640 our children to achieve this, why should we bother? 110 00:06:58.140 --> 00:07:01.908 So they're already disadvantaged and it's 111 00:07:01.924 --> 00:07:05.096 a mistake that far too many 112 00:07:05.278 --> 00:07:08.364 professional people make. Whatever realm of 113 00:07:08.402 --> 00:07:12.140 professionalism that they're in is to say, no, your 114 00:07:12.210 --> 00:07:15.070 child is not going to achieve anything. 115 00:07:18.320 --> 00:07:22.000 It's signing them off before 116 00:07:22.070 --> 00:07:25.696 their lives even really begun. And it makes me so 117 00:07:25.878 --> 00:07:29.536 angry. And as a parent, yes, we should be 118 00:07:29.558 --> 00:07:33.148 allowed to have children. They have an awful lot, the 119 00:07:33.174 --> 00:07:36.980 whole parenting. It covers 120 00:07:37.400 --> 00:07:39.910 all sorts of other areas as well. 121 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:44.420 It challenges autism myths. 122 00:07:47.180 --> 00:07:50.776 Apparently we get told it's a myth that we 123 00:07:50.798 --> 00:07:54.344 lack empathy. It's a myth that we're unable to 124 00:07:54.382 --> 00:07:57.832 form relationships. It's a myth that we can meet other 125 00:07:57.886 --> 00:08:01.544 people's needs and all this kind of 126 00:08:01.582 --> 00:08:05.180 thing. If professionals are being taught 127 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:09.564 negative stuff about autistic people, then 128 00:08:09.602 --> 00:08:12.864 they come into contact with an 129 00:08:12.902 --> 00:08:16.412 autistic parent, with an autistic 130 00:08:16.476 --> 00:08:19.964 children with an autistic child or autistic 131 00:08:20.012 --> 00:08:23.504 children, they're going to say, well, you're not capable of 132 00:08:23.542 --> 00:08:27.012 raising this child. This child is the way they are 133 00:08:27.146 --> 00:08:30.964 because you are somehow deficient as a parent, whether that's a 134 00:08:31.002 --> 00:08:34.564 spoken dialogue or a written dialogue, or whether it's an 135 00:08:34.602 --> 00:08:37.880 underlying negative belief against that 136 00:08:37.950 --> 00:08:39.290 individual person. 137 00:08:41.580 --> 00:08:45.032 And there needs to be more dialogue about autistic people as 138 00:08:45.086 --> 00:08:48.744 parents. Because if we see the potential of an autistic 139 00:08:48.792 --> 00:08:52.380 person as a parent, there is no reason why this person 140 00:08:52.450 --> 00:08:56.124 cannot become a parent. If we deny them 141 00:08:56.162 --> 00:08:59.576 that possibility, then that puts 142 00:08:59.688 --> 00:09:03.436 that parent at risk. It puts 143 00:09:03.468 --> 00:09:07.196 them at risk of having their children removed. It puts 144 00:09:07.228 --> 00:09:10.992 them at risk of having unnecessary interference from 145 00:09:11.046 --> 00:09:14.668 authorities, from social services. Daddy, daddy, 146 00:09:14.684 --> 00:09:18.516 daddy, dad. And I have come across that a lot since my book 147 00:09:18.538 --> 00:09:22.256 was published. And there does need to be a wider dialogue 148 00:09:22.288 --> 00:09:24.630 of the autistic person as a parent. 149 00:09:26.540 --> 00:09:30.004 That's fascinating because I think I've 150 00:09:30.052 --> 00:09:33.560 been subjected to that 151 00:09:33.710 --> 00:09:36.730 stereotypical view of an autistic person 152 00:09:39.040 --> 00:09:42.616 because I work a lot with recruiters recruitment process, and there's 153 00:09:42.648 --> 00:09:46.444 this push on autism awareness. And 154 00:09:46.562 --> 00:09:50.316 the common thing that comes out is that autistic people, as 155 00:09:50.338 --> 00:09:53.632 you say, don't have empathy or they are not able 156 00:09:53.686 --> 00:09:57.468 to speak in any kind of metaphors 157 00:09:57.484 --> 00:10:01.168 or vague terms. If you say, how are you feeling? That's not a 158 00:10:01.174 --> 00:10:04.256 good question. That's why I've been told that's not a good question to ask an 159 00:10:04.278 --> 00:10:08.004 autistic person, or if you say to somebody, tell me about your 160 00:10:08.042 --> 00:10:11.556 life, that's, again, a bad question for an autistic person, because it needs to be 161 00:10:11.578 --> 00:10:14.980 very specific about what I'm trying to do. This is how I've been taught 162 00:10:16.040 --> 00:10:19.648 to communicate effectively with autistic people. And what you're saying is, 163 00:10:19.754 --> 00:10:23.204 as I've heard of other people say, is if you meet one autistic person, you've 164 00:10:23.252 --> 00:10:27.080 met one autistic person. Every autistic person is different. Everyone has a different 165 00:10:27.150 --> 00:10:30.556 layer of need in the same that I'm an individual, you're an 166 00:10:30.578 --> 00:10:34.380 individual, the world are individuals. We all have to have this 167 00:10:34.450 --> 00:10:38.156 person centric view of who we are, don't we? And I found it 168 00:10:38.178 --> 00:10:41.884 very fascinating that because I'm 56 169 00:10:41.922 --> 00:10:45.484 years old, only 56. And when I was young, we didn't 170 00:10:45.532 --> 00:10:49.232 have autistic people. We did, but 171 00:10:49.286 --> 00:10:52.560 we didn't call them autistic, we didn't have people with Asperger's, we had all these. 172 00:10:52.710 --> 00:10:56.432 We had difficult children, we had children who were unteachable, 173 00:10:56.496 --> 00:10:59.780 we had the bottom of the class 174 00:10:59.930 --> 00:11:03.604 corner where children were effectively written off. And it's only 175 00:11:03.642 --> 00:11:07.464 really been in the last, what, 1520 years, where we've started to 176 00:11:07.502 --> 00:11:11.108 understand about different learning styles, different communication styles. 177 00:11:11.284 --> 00:11:15.064 And some of those children who probably in my day were 178 00:11:15.102 --> 00:11:18.544 written off, simply had either a learning disability 179 00:11:18.692 --> 00:11:21.992 or were autistic or had adhd, had attention 180 00:11:22.056 --> 00:11:25.772 deficits and they received no help, whereas at least children 181 00:11:25.826 --> 00:11:29.576 today are getting their help. So is it because the older 182 00:11:29.608 --> 00:11:33.112 generation see autism as a young person 183 00:11:33.186 --> 00:11:36.336 thing, not an old person thing? Which is why you probably don't get the support 184 00:11:36.518 --> 00:11:38.610 or understanding that you're looking for. 185 00:11:40.100 --> 00:11:43.492 It's a difficult one, isn't it? Because while progress has been 186 00:11:43.546 --> 00:11:47.172 made, there's still an awful long way 187 00:11:47.226 --> 00:11:50.644 to go. I'm a little bit older than 188 00:11:50.682 --> 00:11:53.990 you, but we were brought up in the same 189 00:11:54.920 --> 00:11:57.800 kind of, like, era. I'm 190 00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:02.456 59, so I related to 191 00:12:02.478 --> 00:12:06.264 what you said about we didn't have autistic children in the classroom. We did, 192 00:12:06.302 --> 00:12:09.304 but we didn't know they were 193 00:12:09.342 --> 00:12:13.116 autistic. I didn't get diagnosed till I was 44 and 194 00:12:13.138 --> 00:12:16.844 it was massively life changing. I 195 00:12:16.882 --> 00:12:20.584 was doing some background research on behalf 196 00:12:20.632 --> 00:12:23.840 of my youngest son who had to move schools. 197 00:12:24.580 --> 00:12:28.064 I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent with that, 198 00:12:28.102 --> 00:12:31.296 but it was after doing some research that I 199 00:12:31.318 --> 00:12:34.996 recognised on behalf of him that I recognised the traits in 200 00:12:35.018 --> 00:12:38.464 me. So, yeah, it was massively, massively life changing, 201 00:12:38.592 --> 00:12:42.230 but there's still an awful long way to go. 202 00:12:42.760 --> 00:12:46.480 A lot of differences have been noted for a long while because as you 203 00:12:46.490 --> 00:12:50.312 were talking, I remembered different things. And 204 00:12:50.366 --> 00:12:54.088 you've got to remember that this is language that was used in the 205 00:12:54.174 --> 00:12:57.576 1960s, 1970s, because children, for 206 00:12:57.598 --> 00:13:01.356 instance, with other differences like dyslexia, they 207 00:13:01.378 --> 00:13:04.492 were recognised. They were recognised as 208 00:13:04.546 --> 00:13:07.996 dyslexic. But to use words that were common 209 00:13:08.098 --> 00:13:11.250 at the time, please hear that. I've said that 210 00:13:12.100 --> 00:13:15.040 they were seen as a little bit backward 211 00:13:15.620 --> 00:13:19.020 or a bit slow or somehow 212 00:13:19.100 --> 00:13:22.848 deficient, but thankfully this had been a 213 00:13:22.854 --> 00:13:26.672 hell of a lot of progress on that. So being dyslexic 214 00:13:26.736 --> 00:13:30.484 now does not have the same tag attached to 215 00:13:30.522 --> 00:13:33.990 it as being dyslexic did 50 years ago. 216 00:13:34.520 --> 00:13:38.168 So maybe in another 30 or 40 years time, 217 00:13:38.334 --> 00:13:42.024 and hopefully it isn't going to be that long, that 218 00:13:42.062 --> 00:13:44.650 autism will be see in another 219 00:13:45.660 --> 00:13:49.310 more positive light because you said something that 220 00:13:50.160 --> 00:13:53.804 we hear an awful lot. I can hardly ever talk 221 00:13:53.842 --> 00:13:57.656 about autism to somebody new who does not quote, 222 00:13:57.768 --> 00:14:01.292 if you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic 223 00:14:01.356 --> 00:14:04.848 person. It's one of the most 224 00:14:04.934 --> 00:14:08.370 common things that gets grown up about. 225 00:14:08.900 --> 00:14:12.672 And we would not say that in 226 00:14:12.726 --> 00:14:16.404 any other context. We would not say, if 227 00:14:16.442 --> 00:14:19.972 you have met one Hindu, you have 228 00:14:20.026 --> 00:14:23.876 met one Hindu. If you have met one black person, 229 00:14:23.978 --> 00:14:27.536 you have met one black person. If you have met one 230 00:14:27.578 --> 00:14:30.616 woman, you have met one woman. If you have met one man, you have met 231 00:14:30.638 --> 00:14:34.152 one man. We just don't hear it in any other 232 00:14:34.206 --> 00:14:37.930 context apart from autism. Why 233 00:14:38.700 --> 00:14:42.460 is it only in the realm of autism that we hear 234 00:14:42.530 --> 00:14:46.364 that? And when on the other hand, the same people will say, 235 00:14:46.402 --> 00:14:50.012 they will follow it up the subtitle to if 236 00:14:50.066 --> 00:14:53.744 you have met one person with autism, you have met one 237 00:14:53.782 --> 00:14:57.200 person with autism. The subtitle then goes 238 00:14:57.270 --> 00:15:00.592 into we're all individual, we're all 239 00:15:00.646 --> 00:15:04.100 different. And that's usually said in that kind of 240 00:15:04.170 --> 00:15:07.668 special voice that we usually reserve to somebody 241 00:15:07.754 --> 00:15:10.020 looking at a basket of kittens. 242 00:15:11.640 --> 00:15:15.188 If you've met person, you 243 00:15:15.274 --> 00:15:18.810 met one autistic person. We're all individual, 244 00:15:19.340 --> 00:15:22.904 we're all unique in our own special way. What 245 00:15:22.942 --> 00:15:25.800 a cute basket of kittens. 246 00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:29.100 And in some context, 247 00:15:29.920 --> 00:15:32.830 and too many contexts that happen, and 248 00:15:33.520 --> 00:15:37.336 when you're on the receiving end of that and it's 249 00:15:37.368 --> 00:15:41.184 a professional, do you know that is like the 250 00:15:41.222 --> 00:15:44.864 garage doors slamming. Oh, 251 00:15:44.902 --> 00:15:48.748 by the way, autistic people don't use metaphor, so just ignore 252 00:15:48.764 --> 00:15:52.428 the fact that I said it's like a garage door slamming 253 00:15:52.524 --> 00:15:56.324 because I clearly don't know what that 254 00:15:56.362 --> 00:15:59.430 metaphor might conjure up with anybody. 255 00:16:00.520 --> 00:16:03.750 Maybe you're not autistic enough, then. Do you have that problem as well? 256 00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:09.416 No, I might only be a little 257 00:16:09.438 --> 00:16:13.224 bit autistic. No. Hang on a second. Hang on a second. But 258 00:16:13.262 --> 00:16:16.856 aren't we all a little bit autistic? Aren't we 259 00:16:16.958 --> 00:16:20.524 all on the spectrum somewhere? And that 260 00:16:20.562 --> 00:16:23.630 leads into that one, doesn't it? Actually, no. 261 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:27.976 And this is something that I bring up in my, I do this Mythbuster 262 00:16:28.008 --> 00:16:31.772 quiz, and this mythbuster quiz is compiled 263 00:16:31.836 --> 00:16:35.600 over questions that autistic people want to ask 264 00:16:35.670 --> 00:16:39.456 or points they want to raise. And lack of 265 00:16:39.478 --> 00:16:43.216 empathy is one of them. That's the top. Well, you 266 00:16:43.238 --> 00:16:46.996 can hear they all pop out going. You 267 00:16:47.018 --> 00:16:50.548 can almost see people popping on social 268 00:16:50.634 --> 00:16:54.324 media going like, tell them about the lack of empathy. Tell them 269 00:16:54.362 --> 00:16:58.040 about the lack of empathy. That is our number one. Drives us nuts. 270 00:16:58.380 --> 00:17:02.200 It's absolutely crazy. And the other one is, we've autistic. 271 00:17:02.540 --> 00:17:06.184 We are not people with autism. And 272 00:17:06.222 --> 00:17:09.900 it's crazy. It's absolutely crazy. And we are 273 00:17:09.970 --> 00:17:13.580 so passionate about this stuff, whether 274 00:17:13.650 --> 00:17:17.224 not everybody can hop up and down in a chair and wave their arms 275 00:17:17.272 --> 00:17:20.976 about the way I do, the way that I 276 00:17:20.998 --> 00:17:24.816 am, but this kind of 277 00:17:24.838 --> 00:17:28.064 thing matters. No. When I bring 278 00:17:28.102 --> 00:17:31.904 up the stuff about everybody being a little 279 00:17:31.942 --> 00:17:35.684 bit autistic and everybody being on the spectrum somewhere. The 280 00:17:35.722 --> 00:17:39.316 first time I heard that, I was delivering a 281 00:17:39.338 --> 00:17:43.140 workshop to 95 children's care 282 00:17:43.210 --> 00:17:46.984 workers, and that came up and 283 00:17:47.022 --> 00:17:48.330 I asked the question, 284 00:17:51.100 --> 00:17:54.520 so who thinks everybody's a little bit autistic? 285 00:17:55.180 --> 00:17:58.540 And this is the question I put to 95 286 00:17:58.610 --> 00:18:02.140 children's care workers. Nearly every 287 00:18:02.210 --> 00:18:05.980 hand went up. Probably about 90 hands went 288 00:18:06.050 --> 00:18:09.836 up and that I had that feeling. I 289 00:18:09.858 --> 00:18:12.880 could feel my face went cold. 290 00:18:13.460 --> 00:18:17.296 I could barely breathe for that moment, 291 00:18:17.398 --> 00:18:21.232 I was utterly speechless. The 292 00:18:21.286 --> 00:18:24.880 horror that just filled me was incredible. 293 00:18:25.040 --> 00:18:28.432 I thought, are you really being taught 294 00:18:28.496 --> 00:18:31.396 this? And just 295 00:18:31.498 --> 00:18:34.550 somewhere, somewhere out of 296 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:38.552 goodness knows where, I heard my voice. I heard 297 00:18:38.686 --> 00:18:41.450 this voice from inside me 298 00:18:41.980 --> 00:18:45.080 saying, keep your hands raised. 299 00:18:47.660 --> 00:18:51.208 So which little bit of autistic 300 00:18:51.384 --> 00:18:55.036 are you? If you can tell me, please keep your 301 00:18:55.058 --> 00:18:58.504 hand raised. Not one hand stayed 302 00:18:58.552 --> 00:19:02.384 raised because it's one of those things that people are 303 00:19:02.422 --> 00:19:05.856 taught and they take on board without actually 304 00:19:05.958 --> 00:19:09.664 questioning it. And there's only 305 00:19:09.702 --> 00:19:12.930 ever been one person who's argued with me 306 00:19:13.320 --> 00:19:17.152 in a training session, and she was a consultant 307 00:19:17.216 --> 00:19:21.028 psychiatrist. Now, that's nothing to do with, if 308 00:19:21.034 --> 00:19:24.836 you've met one consultant psychiatrist, you've met one 309 00:19:24.938 --> 00:19:28.776 consultant psychiatrist. Now, I've met a lot, and 310 00:19:28.798 --> 00:19:32.410 most of them are absolutely brilliant, but this particular individual 311 00:19:33.820 --> 00:19:36.970 wanted to argue with me. So 312 00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:41.004 sometimes we just have to draw a line under it and say, 313 00:19:41.122 --> 00:19:44.764 okay, fine, but until you can tell me which little 314 00:19:44.802 --> 00:19:48.284 bit of autistic you actually are, because you 315 00:19:48.322 --> 00:19:52.108 haven't answered my question, then are 316 00:19:52.114 --> 00:19:54.704 we going to have to leave it there and move on? And then I move 317 00:19:54.742 --> 00:19:58.496 on really quickly. And moving on really quickly was an 318 00:19:58.518 --> 00:20:02.290 art I learned when I was a taxi driver. That's another story. 319 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:06.740 Seriously. This is one of my funny little anecdotes. 320 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:11.796 This is like getting stuck into a Monty python sketch without realising it. This is 321 00:20:11.818 --> 00:20:15.668 absolutely fantastic. Shall I 322 00:20:15.674 --> 00:20:18.630 tell you how I learned to move on really quickly? 323 00:20:20.860 --> 00:20:24.680 I did spend a period of time, about three or four years, 324 00:20:24.750 --> 00:20:28.484 being a taxi driver. And the reason I got to being a taxi driver 325 00:20:28.532 --> 00:20:31.660 was because out of an unfortunate circumstance, 326 00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:36.124 it was a really horribly, terribly stressful and 327 00:20:36.162 --> 00:20:39.836 tragic point in my life. And I'm actually making it sound like a joke, and 328 00:20:39.858 --> 00:20:43.440 it wasn't. I was subject to child 329 00:20:43.510 --> 00:20:47.196 care proceedings. And my two older children hadn't 330 00:20:47.228 --> 00:20:50.832 lived with me from before his birth. They were his half 331 00:20:50.886 --> 00:20:54.676 siblings. And he had an injury, a 332 00:20:54.698 --> 00:20:58.416 non accidental injury, and I couldn't prove 333 00:20:58.448 --> 00:21:01.270 that I hadn't done it. And he was in 334 00:21:02.520 --> 00:21:06.036 foster care and I used to see him. 335 00:21:06.138 --> 00:21:08.840 Sorry, I've got a dog running around underneath. 336 00:21:10.540 --> 00:21:13.924 He was in foster care and I used to see him on Monday and Tuesday 337 00:21:13.972 --> 00:21:17.640 and Thursday and Friday. So I needed a job that was during 338 00:21:17.710 --> 00:21:21.236 the nighttime or at weekends. And I got a job as a taxi 339 00:21:21.268 --> 00:21:24.984 driver. And I thought, social services are going to think, this is really great, dead 340 00:21:25.032 --> 00:21:28.796 positive, all that kind of thing. But no, they said I was putting myself at 341 00:21:28.818 --> 00:21:32.384 risk. Now, had I have got a job during the day, they would have 342 00:21:32.422 --> 00:21:35.904 said, she's putting career before child. So it's not 343 00:21:35.942 --> 00:21:39.456 like I couldn't win. It was just completely 344 00:21:39.558 --> 00:21:42.912 dreadful. But I got a job as a taxi driver and 345 00:21:42.966 --> 00:21:45.910 seriously, and I talk about it in my book, and 346 00:21:47.080 --> 00:21:50.420 it saved my sanity. I did two 347 00:21:50.570 --> 00:21:54.228 really positive things in that awful time. And one was 348 00:21:54.314 --> 00:21:57.908 get the job as a taxi driver and the other one was to start dancing. 349 00:21:58.084 --> 00:22:01.816 And I used to find out that I 350 00:22:01.838 --> 00:22:05.624 got asked out an awful lot to start 351 00:22:05.662 --> 00:22:09.128 off with. Nearly every shift I did, I was getting asked out 352 00:22:09.214 --> 00:22:12.584 like four or five times a week. I'd get asked out on 353 00:22:12.622 --> 00:22:16.332 dates and I kind of started to get a little bit 354 00:22:16.386 --> 00:22:20.012 annoying. I wasn't interested in relationships at the time. I wanted 355 00:22:20.066 --> 00:22:23.564 to focus on what really mattered. And relationships 356 00:22:23.612 --> 00:22:27.264 weren't one of them. And I figured out 357 00:22:27.302 --> 00:22:29.650 that people ask this question, 358 00:22:30.900 --> 00:22:32.960 people. It was usually blokes. 359 00:22:34.420 --> 00:22:38.244 And the quite common question went along the lines of, doesn't your husband mind 360 00:22:38.282 --> 00:22:42.036 you doing this? Or doesn't your boyfriend mind you doing this? And I 361 00:22:42.058 --> 00:22:45.808 used to say, well, I'm sort of like, haven't got a husband or, no, I'm 362 00:22:45.824 --> 00:22:49.450 not in a relationship. And then I'd get asked out. 363 00:22:49.820 --> 00:22:53.544 And that's when I realised that they weren't really asking whether 364 00:22:53.582 --> 00:22:57.400 my husband minded or my boyfriend minded. They were really 365 00:22:57.470 --> 00:23:00.844 asking, are you single now? I was 366 00:23:00.882 --> 00:23:04.668 answering the question that they asked and not the question 367 00:23:04.754 --> 00:23:07.836 that they meant. And this is a completely 368 00:23:07.938 --> 00:23:11.676 autism thing. You ask me the question, you ask me if I 369 00:23:11.698 --> 00:23:15.120 want a cup of coffee, I'll say yes or no. If you're asking 370 00:23:15.190 --> 00:23:18.496 me if I want a cup of coffee because you think it 371 00:23:18.518 --> 00:23:22.272 means you're inviting me in your house 372 00:23:22.326 --> 00:23:26.176 for a fumble on the sofa to Matt Monroe songs or 373 00:23:26.278 --> 00:23:29.824 thing, then it's not going, you asked me for a coffee. You didn't 374 00:23:29.872 --> 00:23:33.444 say, know, take your clothes off, lord, or 375 00:23:33.482 --> 00:23:37.240 anything like that. And I realised that that was what the question 376 00:23:37.310 --> 00:23:40.744 meant. So I learned to move on really quickly and say, 377 00:23:40.782 --> 00:23:44.536 like, well, actually, I don't have one. And then I 378 00:23:44.558 --> 00:23:48.116 change the subject quick. And the invitations 379 00:23:48.228 --> 00:23:52.076 to quiet nights in just dried up, which is quite a 380 00:23:52.098 --> 00:23:54.990 relief. So that's how I learned to move on 381 00:23:55.600 --> 00:23:59.356 from an awkward question. And it does work well in 382 00:23:59.378 --> 00:24:01.020 a professional setting. 383 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:06.208 Yeah, I think you're right. When we're training, when we're standing in front of 384 00:24:06.214 --> 00:24:09.964 people, it's quite easy to get sucked into a black hole if you're not careful. 385 00:24:10.012 --> 00:24:13.796 Yes. Someone's going to have a question or they'll have a perspective and you get 386 00:24:13.818 --> 00:24:17.296 dragged into. As you say, it's very important to be able to have an escape 387 00:24:17.328 --> 00:24:19.430 route out of a conversation, isn't it? 388 00:24:20.600 --> 00:24:22.150 Yes, it is. 389 00:24:24.360 --> 00:24:27.130 It's being able to look at 390 00:24:28.140 --> 00:24:31.384 that distraction over their shoulder and that 391 00:24:31.422 --> 00:24:35.256 nice shiny ball or that lovely view or something like 392 00:24:35.278 --> 00:24:39.016 that, and then move on to something else. But we need to move on 393 00:24:39.038 --> 00:24:42.812 now. We're really short of time. So x, Y and z, you're welcome 394 00:24:42.866 --> 00:24:46.636 to speak to me afterwards. So you're also 395 00:24:46.658 --> 00:24:50.430 going to destroy the myth that you're not a mathematical genius, then? Is that another 396 00:24:50.800 --> 00:24:52.560 myth that you try and bust? 397 00:24:54.500 --> 00:24:58.176 Yes, that's on the quiz sheet as well. We're not 398 00:24:58.198 --> 00:25:01.490 all good at maths. It's actually really common. 399 00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:07.284 Some people are really genius with numbers 400 00:25:07.482 --> 00:25:10.340 and some aren't. 401 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:14.660