Joanne Lockwood: Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood and I'm your host for the Inclusion
Joanne Lockwood: Bites podcast. In this series, I will be interviewing a number of amazing
Joanne Lockwood: people and simply having a conversation around the subject of inclusion,
Joanne Lockwood: belonging and generally making the world a better place for everyone to
Joanne Lockwood: thrive. If you'd like to join me in the future, then please do drop
Joanne Lockwood: me a line to
Joanne Lockwood: jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. That's
Joanne Lockwood: the S-E-E Change Happen dot Co dot UK. UK. You can catch
Joanne Lockwood: up with all of the previous shows on iTunes, Spotify and the
Joanne Lockwood: usual places. So plug in your headphones, grab a
Joanne Lockwood: decaf and let's get going. Today
Joanne Lockwood: is episode 21 with the title planting
Joanne Lockwood: a seed of kindness and understanding. And I have
Joanne Lockwood: the absolute honour and privilege to be joined by Ryals.
Joanne Lockwood: Ryals described himself as a boy from a small town in Ukraine
Joanne Lockwood: who had big dreams and refused to listen to anyone who told him
Joanne Lockwood: otherwise. When I asked Ryals to describe his superpower,
Joanne Lockwood: he said, being connected directly to the source of
Joanne Lockwood: energy that his body is producing.
Joanne Lockwood: Hello, Ryals. Welcome to the show. Good morning,
Ryals: Joanne. It is my pleasure to be here today. You
Ryals: said grab a decaf. I would grab coffee,
Ryals: just regular and tonnes of it, because it's still 09:30 in
Ryals: the morning in New York and I definitely need some coffee to
Ryals: wake up. I am so honoured to be
Ryals: here and to meet you. Cheers.
Joanne Lockwood: Cheers. Today
Joanne Lockwood: we can't hit Starbucks. We got to make our own today, haven't we? We have
Joanne Lockwood: to still lock down. Today is actually the first day in New York
Ryals: when it's a bit cloudy and the weather dropped to 13
Ryals: degrees celsius, which has made us even closer. I
Ryals: don't know how it is in UK right now, but it
Ryals: feels very autumn. It's been a bit of a mini
Joanne Lockwood: heat wave. We're about 22 degrees over here at the moment,
Joanne Lockwood: which is what? I'm not sure what that is in fahrenheit, but in
Joanne Lockwood: european measures, it's about 22 and it's actually quite
Joanne Lockwood: nice for middle of September. Yeah, very good. Nice. All right,
Ryals: so we exchanged a little. We got you the heat wave and we
Ryals: got. It's a very british
Joanne Lockwood: conversation talking about the Weather. I know.
Joanne Lockwood: A Ukrainian in New York. Talking about the weather with a Brit
Ryals: I have prepared. So let's talk about the weather.
Ryals: I know, yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: Tell me, in the show notes, you put
Joanne Lockwood: this phrase in there, planting the seed of kindness and understanding. So
Joanne Lockwood: what does that mean to you? Where did that come from?
Ryals: I'll start with my father. My father
Ryals: was my stepfather, but
Ryals: he raised me from when I was one and a half years
Ryals: old. And my father, he passed away in
Ryals: 2013, but he was the one
Ryals: who was that spiritual person in
Ryals: my life who would always told me things
Ryals: so wisely and so subtle
Ryals: that I think that was planting a seed in
Ryals: me, in that kid who did not understand what is he
Ryals: saying? But in years that, see,
Ryals: would grow into a big, big tree and a big, big
Ryals: forest. And I think he was the one who planted
Ryals: kindness and love and compassion and
Ryals: empathy to the whole entire world
Ryals: and to the people I know and to friends
Ryals: and family. And I still recall
Ryals: his words in every step of the way in my life.
Ryals: And, yeah, I think
Ryals: he was the one. He was the one who started that process in
Ryals: me, turning that little boy
Ryals: into a man with understanding.
Ryals: So I was growing up being
Ryals: gay in Ukraine, growing up in the
Ryals: closet, under the
Ryals: pressure of society and under the pressure of my own
Ryals: friends and family, who
Ryals: would joke around with shame, not
Ryals: me, because I wouldn't let myself. Since
Ryals: I was 13, I said to myself, no more.
Ryals: I have to create this shield. I have to be
Ryals: as straight as possible, I have to be as
Ryals: smart as possible, as wise as possible, as kind as possible to.
Ryals: Just by having this shield show people
Ryals: that you're not going to get me, so you don't
Ryals: even have to try.
Ryals: And the shield was growing over the years, over ten
Ryals: years of my life, when
Ryals: I would not recognise myself anymore.
Ryals: And I thought that this is me. I
Ryals: guess I've shaded myself into who I am, even though this is a
Ryals: completely different person. And now I'm having
Ryals: troubles with myself, troubles living my life,
Ryals: but yet I still had a dream to change it, to change
Ryals: my surroundings, to change my life, because this is my life
Ryals: and I have to build it.
Ryals: That's when I moved to the United States and
Ryals: started my new journey, the journey of who I
Ryals: really am. And still with the words
Ryals: of my father in my heart, that you'll make
Ryals: it, you're the kindest
Ryals: person I know, and,
Ryals: yeah, that everything's going to be okay, even though you don't have the
Ryals: answers now. Keep going. Carry on.
Joanne Lockwood: That must have been a real moment in
Joanne Lockwood: your life when you made that decision to leave your
Joanne Lockwood: hometown, your family or your friends,
Joanne Lockwood: and ship yourself off
Joanne Lockwood: to New York, even though the world is a
Joanne Lockwood: smaller place than it today, than it was 30, 40 years ago. That's still a
Joanne Lockwood: big deal, isn't it? To go from one culture that
Joanne Lockwood: is significantly different to another culture, isn't it? And
Joanne Lockwood: alone, effectively, yeah, absolutely.
Ryals: I don't know if that's the movies that shaped me, that
Ryals: shaped my brain, that there is a better life somewhere,
Ryals: or just the longing inside that if I don't
Ryals: belong to this place, I'm sure there is a place on earth
Ryals: right now where I could find myself. And I
Ryals: always had know New York was like my
Ryals: north Star, that I would always see
Ryals: somewhere. I didn't know what's behind it, I didn't know what's there, but it
Ryals: was sort of a direction for me to go. And
Ryals: when you have this direction, when you have hope in your heart, you can go
Ryals: through the most difficult experiences in your
Ryals: life just because you know that somewhere,
Ryals: you believe that somewhere, there is a
Ryals: solution, or you just have a sense of direction where you have to
Ryals: go. So when I was 18, my family
Ryals: and Mia, we didn't have any money, any big money, so nobody
Ryals: would even dream of flying somewhere, not
Ryals: moving somewhere. And here was
Ryals: me, 13 years old. Like, when I'm going to
Ryals: be 18, I'll travel the
Ryals: world. I'll be trying to move to America.
Ryals: I'll be in New York. I'll start my life. And
Ryals: that's where nobody,
Ryals: nobody would even think that that would be possible. So
Ryals: nobody would find those words. You know, you just believe in
Ryals: yourself. You just carry on. Except my father,
Ryals: before very the end, we would have that
Ryals: conversation and he would say how much he believes in me.
Ryals: But nobody until then was like, yeah, you're going to make it. Even
Ryals: though that seemed ridiculously
Ryals: hard, nobody would find a word to
Ryals: encourage that. So that's where you had to
Ryals: shape yourself into this strong person with self
Ryals: motivation, with seeing
Ryals: that North Star, even in a cloudy day, just knowing it's
Ryals: there, even if you can see it now, you just know it's
Ryals: there and the cloud is going to move, and you're going to see it again.
Ryals: And when I was 18, I said to my mom,
Ryals: all right, well, I'm 18 now. In the summer, there's a
Ryals: programme called work and travel. I think I'm going to travel
Ryals: to the United States and see how it goes.
Ryals: And that's where my mom freaked out.
Ryals: She actually found out that that was real. She actually found
Ryals: out that my words that I was saying and preparing her for five years,
Ryals: that they are real. And she cried. She started crying. She's like, what do you
Ryals: mean? How is it possible? Why?
Ryals: And I worked hard, a few jobs
Ryals: during my university years, and
Ryals: I had a scholarship.
Ryals: So I just gathered all my money
Ryals: together, borrowed some money, and was able
Ryals: to pay for that programme. I still don't know
Ryals: how, but it happened. I just wanted it so much that
Ryals: nothing could stop me.
Ryals: And there I am crying on the plane when we are
Ryals: landing in the United States.
Ryals: Yeah. Facing new challenges. I think that will shape me
Ryals: into a prison that I am right now.
Ryals: But that's where the journey begins
Ryals: of me sort of
Ryals: reevaluating my life and
Ryals: finding a way to live your true life.
Ryals: And though it will happen five years later, but I think that would
Ryals: be a hook in my brain that will start a
Ryals: completely new process of thoughts.
Joanne Lockwood: Had you travelled much before or was this your first
Joanne Lockwood: venture across the Atlantic?
Ryals: I think I travelled to Hungary when
Ryals: I was twelve with the group of my
Ryals: dancing group. We attended a competition. That was my
Ryals: first abroad trip. And then,
Ryals: yeah, I think that was my first trip. And right across.
Ryals: And then I came back and I travelled a little around
Ryals: Europe, sort of with a backpack,
Ryals: hitchhiking. There was great experience. The cheapest
Ryals: hotels, the car from town to
Ryals: town, from Budapest to Vienna, from Vienna to Graz,
Ryals: from grads to Venice. It was
Ryals: beautiful. But yeah, my
Ryals: first trip was straight 9 hours on a plane.
Joanne Lockwood: Wow. So this is no, kind of like,
Joanne Lockwood: this is going to be okay. I've done it before. This is like, literally pack
Joanne Lockwood: your bag, get on the plane, see what happens.
Ryals: There's this magnet that just like pulling you in
Ryals: and you're not resistant, you're just following it.
Ryals: Follow that. So you weren't going with any plan as such other than to
Joanne Lockwood: land and see what happen? Oh, yeah. Well, I was
Ryals: thinking, know, if I do it through the programme, I'll at least have
Ryals: a job and I'll have a place to stay. So I'm not
Ryals: completely lost because still being in Ukraine, you're
Ryals: in the bubble and you are a kid.
Ryals: You're still a kid. You don't have much
Ryals: experience being abroad or dealing with, I don't
Ryals: know, paying the bills and finding places to stay or finding a job
Ryals: in a different country. So I was a little
Ryals: secure about that. But I wanted to experience,
Ryals: how is it here? Who are those people?
Ryals: What do we eat? What do we say? What do we watch?
Ryals: So that was my first touch with the
Ryals: culture. And I met a
Ryals: family by the pool. I worked as a lifeguard, I met a
Ryals: family by the pool. I met a cat first. I met their cat
Ryals: and she was three collar cat, just like I
Ryals: did have at home. And then this
Ryals: woman appears in front of me and she's like, I really hope she will not
Ryals: bother you. This is Ginger. She will come to the pool
Ryals: very often, will live right there. And she was the first customer,
Ryals: person that I met. And
Ryals: how many years later, seven years later, that lady
Ryals: walked me down the aisle because my mom couldn't make it to the wedding
Ryals: here. And Diane. Yeah,
Ryals: we are all connected now, we're all big family, but
Ryals: that's how it all began. What amazing story. What an amazing
Joanne Lockwood: story. So you would have been in Ukraine as
Joanne Lockwood: a young person at the time of the revolution and the time, all
Joanne Lockwood: the trouble there because as I think I mentioned you earlier, I was in
Joanne Lockwood: Kiev last year, I think it was last year. And
Joanne Lockwood: just hearing the stories and seeing what had gone on less
Joanne Lockwood: than ten years ago, I mean, seven or eight years ago. So you're 25 now,
Joanne Lockwood: you would have been 1718 at the time, would you?
Ryals: Yes. Same year as I came back from the States. I think it
Ryals: started and I might be wrong, but November somewhere close
Ryals: to winter. Yeah. First of all,
Ryals: it's amazing that you visited Ukraine. I hope you
Ryals: liked Kiev. I haven't been to Uk yet,
Ryals: but that's one of the dreams of mine. Definitely going to
Ryals: visit you. Maybe we'll grab coffee somewhere. I'd love
Ryals: to hope the pandemic is over by then.
Ryals: Yes. Revolution started so
Ryals: sudden, I'd say, but during
Ryals: that time we were attending university and
Ryals: the independent square where everything would take
Ryals: action. It was right above the subway that
Ryals: we would go
Ryals: to study and a lot of the times they would just
Ryals: close the subway because there is a chance that there is a bomb or
Ryals: something. So we would have to go around and find
Ryals: another way to get home. But it was
Ryals: scary for sure.
Ryals: People were on their feet, people were driven
Ryals: by the force because it is
Ryals: hard to just make it
Ryals: through the life in poverty, in
Ryals: being suppressed and just
Ryals: when people have that drive even if
Ryals: they don't know completely what they're doing but they
Ryals: just know stand up on their feet and they're protesting
Ryals: because it's their lives and they want to change.
Ryals: That's when it happens. It doesn't happen often. You see that there's
Ryals: not much changed in Ukraine and people are still
Ryals: protesting but it's not as big because a lot of us just
Ryals: give up and be know I can make it through the day so
Ryals: I'll make it through the week. I can make it through the week and I'll
Ryals: make it through a year. It's fine. That completely does not
Ryals: touch me. I'll be just
Ryals: was a, it was a big thing and Crimea
Ryals: was separated from very, very beautiful place.
Ryals: Very beautiful place. I've been there also by myself,
Ryals: travelled. Amazing, beautiful
Ryals: place. People just
Ryals: stopped going there as much as often.
Ryals: Now everybody's going to Odessa. Odessa is overwhelmed
Ryals: by so many.
Ryals: You know, whatever happen, happens. It's not always
Ryals: in our power to change, but whatever we can, we
Ryals: can. So my limited experience of
Joanne Lockwood: Ukraine for my week long visit there.
Joanne Lockwood: You've got the East Ukraine and West Ukraine, where the
Joanne Lockwood: eastern side is more russian speaking, the western side is less
Joanne Lockwood: russian speaking. And there's a kind of like an east west divide within Ukraine
Joanne Lockwood: itself, isn't? Is there not?
Ryals: I was sort of in the capital, right? I was a small town, right, besides
Ryals: Kiev. So my family was a russian
Ryals: speaking family. I speak fluently Russian and
Ryals: fluently Ukrainian, and I don't like to mix them together as
Ryals: a lot of people do, and creating their own
Ryals: language, which is if you're not from Ukraine or you're learning
Ryals: Ukrainian or Russian, you will not get. So
Ryals: there is two parts of Ukraine, as you said. That's correct. But
Ryals: personally I did not feel
Ryals: that the difference. Sort of like if you're in West
Ryals: Ukraine, yes, everybody's speaking Ukrainian, which is. It is Ukraine,
Ryals: so it is your language, you know what I mean? And
Ryals: if you are in the east of Ukraine, everybody's speaking Russian,
Ryals: which I do speak Russian. We all speak Russian because Soviet Union
Ryals: broke up not so long ago. So our parents were still born there and
Ryals: obviously they spoke Russian, so they sort of like
Ryals: took the position, okay, I know Russian. I'll learn Ukrainian, I'll
Ryals: speak both. But this is the country and I'll respect that.
Ryals: So I'm sure there are people, as everywhere, probably in every country,
Ryals: where the point of view is
Ryals: completely different, and they will stand by it without the exception of one
Ryals: another, for sure.
Ryals: My friends and my family wasn't one of those people,
Ryals: thank God. So I cannot speak from the experience of the
Ryals: protesting side. But yes, it is
Ryals: there and it's part of the nation for sure.
Joanne Lockwood: I was fortunate enough to go to Poland
Joanne Lockwood: in Gdansk probably about 15 years
Joanne Lockwood: ago, and I had the immense privilege to meet
Joanne Lockwood: Lekvaenza, who is often
Joanne Lockwood: credited for being maybe the start of the end
Joanne Lockwood: of communism in some parts of Europe and instrumental in
Joanne Lockwood: bringing down the Berlin wall and starting that movement
Joanne Lockwood: and such an iconic figure. But to hear the stories
Joanne Lockwood: of people who are my friends in Poland, because I went
Joanne Lockwood: there with some friends who lived there, they were actually part of that
Joanne Lockwood: solidarity movement. They were imprisoned by the police,
Joanne Lockwood: they were kept in solitary confinement,
Joanne Lockwood: beaten, and people didn't know where they were. That
Joanne Lockwood: whole revolution experience, talking to my polish friends at the time was
Joanne Lockwood: very powerful. But then to come to Kiev and hear the
Joanne Lockwood: stories of Independent Square with snipers on the roof,
Joanne Lockwood: learning about the people who are shot down
Joanne Lockwood: just in a crowd, these were just ordinary people out for the day, shopping or
Joanne Lockwood: whatever they're doing in a country that
Joanne Lockwood: I felt was so typically
Joanne Lockwood: european. When I visited Kiev, it seemed very
Joanne Lockwood: western and normal to me, whatever
Joanne Lockwood: normal may mean. So it felt really strange to be somewhere where there'd
Joanne Lockwood: been so much trouble and violence less than five or six years ago.
Joanne Lockwood: And that really was powerful. To read the stories and see the
Joanne Lockwood: candles and see the photographs of those people who died that day
Joanne Lockwood: and see the legacy of the monuments in Independence Square,
Joanne Lockwood: all the pictures of what was going on at those times,
Joanne Lockwood: was immensely powerful. And I defy anyone to go there
Joanne Lockwood: and not feel the emotional connection with the stories.
Joanne Lockwood: And it would take a very hard person
Joanne Lockwood: not to feel a tear or feel some sadness for what went
Joanne Lockwood: on. And it reminds us of that we live in this
Joanne Lockwood: world where that still happens. It's still happening now in many countries
Joanne Lockwood: in the world. And it's not just.
Joanne Lockwood: Even some of the more westernised countries have the same trouble. We have troubles
Joanne Lockwood: in riots in America. There's still the black lives Matter,
Joanne Lockwood: and still people are fighting oppression, aren't they all over
Joanne Lockwood: the. Of the.
Ryals: One of the stories that we are trying to share, me and my husband, to
Ryals: people even here, and to our friends and to our families,
Ryals: because as I moved to New York and a year
Ryals: after, when I moved to New York and
Ryals: people were asking, know, you're gay, right?
Ryals: I'm like, yeah.
Ryals: And it was so hard for me to overcome years and years
Ryals: of shame and suppression that
Ryals: I think I would blush saying that, yes, I am like
Ryals: a child, because I think I was a child in this field. I
Ryals: was coming out so slow and learning to walk.
Ryals: And a year after, I think
Ryals: so much anger was
Ryals: just bursting out of me because I couldn't live a
Ryals: life that I sort of was given,
Ryals: that I had to come
Ryals: out to my mom, to my brother, to my friends,
Ryals: and it was the hardest thing to do.
Ryals: But I felt like there was a wall
Ryals: that was getting higher and higher between me and my mom because of
Ryals: not acceptance of me not
Ryals: accepting myself, me not accepting my mom. And I felt like mom's
Ryals: not accepting me. So I had to just break it down
Ryals: and make that wall to fall.
Ryals: So the last conversation we had, I was flying to California, watching the movie
Ryals: love Simon, which is, I thought,
Ryals: cliche. All right, he's coming out. So what? The jealousy
Ryals: was talking in me, and I watched this movie. I
Ryals: was completely crying, always crying on the planes. If you see me on a plane
Ryals: and I'm watching a movie, I'm going to cry, because it's always drama.
Ryals: I flew to see my friend in California, and I had a feeling,
Ryals: like, this is the day that I'm going to talk to my
Ryals: mom. We had a conversation. I couldn't say
Ryals: a word. And then we got into a fight again. And then I'm like,
Ryals: this is it. I hung up, and I'm like, we're not going anywhere anymore.
Ryals: I can't share my life with her. And my life is
Ryals: starting booming here because I came out here and
Ryals: I'm living, and I'm being myself. And I
Ryals: texted her, I need to talk to you. She's like, all right, call me back.
Ryals: I call her back. I facetime her and
Ryals: started crying little by little. I'm like, mom,
Ryals: as I would put it, people in Ukraine say you're not a
Ryals: traditional orientation,
Ryals: which she would say right away, what is traditional? I'm
Ryals: like, okay, this is weird, hearing it from my mom. And then I'm like, mom,
Ryals: I'm gay. She's like, well, she said, you
Ryals: cannot change my life. I cannot change yours.
Ryals: And if you're happy, then she would go into a
Ryals: phase for a year, into sort of like back and forth. It's like, you know,
Ryals: you had such a nice friend, your girlfriend. That would be so nice if you
Ryals: were guys together. I'm like, mom, I'm literally getting married.
Ryals: What are we talking about right now? But then she loves my
Ryals: husband. She now never asks me, how am I? She's asking,
Ryals: how are you guys? How's everything?
Ryals: It's very sweet. Very sweet.
Joanne Lockwood: It must be really magical for you, where all that apprehension, all of
Joanne Lockwood: that nervousness, and then to find that almost
Joanne Lockwood: undying motherly affection and acceptance must have been fantastic. I
Ryals: know. And then I had to find an acceptance for myself again and not
Ryals: be angry at the world and not be angry for all the
Ryals: years that I've sort of lost and didn't have
Ryals: school dance with the person I liked or didn't have dates
Ryals: or didn't have whatever all the teenagers had.
Ryals: Still working on that, I think. But psychologists really
Ryals: helped. I had to unbreak my brain completely because I said,
Ryals: I'm not moving forward. I've completely
Ryals: stopped. But still, it's been
Ryals: three years, and my life has changed. Completely.
Ryals: And it's almost easy to forget
Ryals: that you're living in New York in this bubble when everything
Ryals: is, you know,
Ryals: acceptance wise,
Ryals: and you forget that you're still from Ukraine and
Ryals: there's still no gay people. Some of them are coming out,
Ryals: but I know a lot of people that are gays and they're still
Ryals: in the closet and will never appoint to
Ryals: themselves as gay people. And that's
Ryals: Ukraine. That's the country I'm coming from. But what about
Ryals: 72 other countries and 13 countries
Ryals: where being gay is punishable by death?
Ryals: And countries where you're getting thrown into jail
Ryals: because you're gay and somebody will be
Ryals: thrown into a jail if they don't tell on you, if they know.
Ryals: And that's what we are trying to raise awareness about and
Ryals: continue fighting. Seeing it now, aren't we? In
Joanne Lockwood: Poland, in Hungary,
Joanne Lockwood: they're winding back regimes now where
Joanne Lockwood: lgbt acceptance was more positive. And now
Joanne Lockwood: Poland, there's an anti lgbt agenda, I think
Joanne Lockwood: is Hungary, where it's anti trans legislation being put in
Joanne Lockwood: Belarus. When they just accepted the amendments to
Ryals: the. Where, you know, the marriage
Ryals: is only between a man and a woman, which was
Ryals: always there, but now they establish. So if you are married in another country and
Ryals: you're coming back to Russia, you don't have any
Ryals: rights, you don't have any spouse privilege. And
Ryals: it's happening now, as we say, we live in
Ryals: 2020 and it is happening everywhere.
Ryals: Something is happening when you would say, we're in 21st
Ryals: century and we've seen so much in our history, or we've
Ryals: learned so much, and yet we still have
Ryals: so much to learn and so much to do and so much to fight for.
Ryals: Unfortunately, no. For sure.
Joanne Lockwood: When I went to Ukraine, I was nervous. I
Joanne Lockwood: used my western bias, if you like, assuming that it was going to
Joanne Lockwood: be dark, horrible, and I was going to be at risk.
Joanne Lockwood: And I spoke to the conference organisers, I was speaking at a conference
Joanne Lockwood: there and they assured me that, hey, now, this is Cosmopolitan, this is full
Joanne Lockwood: of this part of Ukraine, it's full of western companies, Facebook
Joanne Lockwood: and Twitter and big companies like that. It'd be fine now, don't worry about it.
Joanne Lockwood: And I thought, ok, and to be honest, when I was there, I had a
Joanne Lockwood: completely positive experience. There's a few times
Joanne Lockwood: where I had men walk straight through
Joanne Lockwood: me, but I think that's more of a sexism thing than an
Joanne Lockwood: lgbt thing, where I was standing in a supermarket and I was expected to just
Joanne Lockwood: get out the way of men as they walked past me or through me
Joanne Lockwood: and I found that very much on the streets as you're walking
Joanne Lockwood: along, there was very much a misogynistic attitude that
Joanne Lockwood: women get out the way of men and men are just coming through and they
Joanne Lockwood: don't even look at you. They just get out my way, sort of thing. So
Joanne Lockwood: I found that a bit strange, just kind of the attitude of
Joanne Lockwood: right of way, if you like, and I realised it's quite a male
Joanne Lockwood: dominated kind of do as you told, sort of
Joanne Lockwood: from. Apart from those kind of little moments, I found
Joanne Lockwood: I had no concerns at all. I had a very similar experience
Joanne Lockwood: in Estonia, in Tallinn.
Joanne Lockwood: I had complete acceptance there, speaking at conferences, talking to people.
Joanne Lockwood: It wasn't an issue. But I am a bit nervous about ever
Joanne Lockwood: going to Moscow or back to Kadansk or even Budapest.
Joanne Lockwood: I'm now thinking, do I put those on my no fly list?
Joanne Lockwood: Because it's not a safe place to go anymore? Are.
Ryals: Yeah, yeah, that's true. I am very happy that you had a
Ryals: pleasant experience in Ukraine. Ukraine is
Ryals: changing, for sure. The kids that we
Ryals: know, it's a new generation that is there,
Ryals: the teenagers or pre
Ryals: adults. When we were kids, they were much tougher
Ryals: on bullying and thank God it's
Ryals: changing now. And I hope for the better, that
Ryals: every generation will bring something
Ryals: bright and delightful into the culture.
Ryals: But as we said, that
Ryals: eastern and western Ukraine still sort of
Ryals: divided. There was so much going on on the
Ryals: territory of that know western was
Ryals: always Poland was fighting for that side, Russia was fighting for
Ryals: that side, or russian empire before Russia itself. And
Ryals: it was always a war, always divided.
Ryals: The World War I, world War two,
Ryals: everything was happening on that land and
Ryals: so many people and intelligent people
Ryals: were killed. And here we are,
Ryals: left, sort of the slaves
Ryals: of the situation left and
Ryals: decided, not decided, but were
Ryals: forced to just live now
Ryals: and develop our
Ryals: nations on our own. And we didn't have much
Ryals: of a brain capacity, if that would
Ryals: be smart. Because you mentioned
Joanne Lockwood: Poland just there, and Russia
Joanne Lockwood: from a UK perspective, we didn't learn much about
Joanne Lockwood: Eastern Europe history and the rise and the cultures
Joanne Lockwood: in eastern Europe. But when I was in Kiev, I learned that Poland were effectively
Joanne Lockwood: your nemesis. They were your invaders.
Joanne Lockwood: Poland were your old adversary, weren't they, from the
Joanne Lockwood: right. Right. Never knew any of that. Yeah, that's what they taught us.
Ryals: We weren't there, we couldn't see.
Joanne Lockwood: It made me realise that we only hear the history that we
Joanne Lockwood: hear. We don't necessarily get taught about rest of the world. And
Joanne Lockwood: so I'm living in this very UK educated
Joanne Lockwood: world and I haven't learnt about the history of
Joanne Lockwood: mean. You can't learn everything. I appreciate. But it certainly made me realise that
Joanne Lockwood: I've got this very narrow view of the world that I see
Joanne Lockwood: and it makes me more hungry to find out about other
Joanne Lockwood: cultures and about other people's history, to understand the lived
Joanne Lockwood: experience and why people experience the world
Joanne Lockwood: they do. I guess this is how the world is getting divided by
Ryals: not being hungry as we are to learn, but
Ryals: being stubborn and closed up in the opinion and just
Ryals: the history and just the information they know
Ryals: and they've learned just that much about that
Ryals: piece of the country or a piece of the world and they're standing by it,
Ryals: not accepting what was going on and what is
Ryals: the opinion, for example, of the other country. Even if two countries
Ryals: were in war, what that country learned and the other one, it's
Ryals: a completely different history. So
Ryals: acceptance and one more time, acceptance into everything in
Ryals: our lives, for sure.
Joanne Lockwood: Let's talk about some of the happiest stuff in your life.
Joanne Lockwood: How you're now spreading this, as you put it, this see, to
Joanne Lockwood: build a forest of love and acceptance in the world. And you're doing that through
Joanne Lockwood: music, through dance, through your creative
Joanne Lockwood: side. Yeah, sorry, you mentioned
Joanne Lockwood: you were involved with the Eurovision Song contest. So you
Joanne Lockwood: wrote some lyrics, is that right? That's correct, yeah.
Ryals: I started writing songs since I was 13. I think that's the
Ryals: moment when you're creating a shield but you still have to
Ryals: talk it out. So you start writing poetry and you start writing songs
Ryals: and putting all your emotions in there and
Ryals: all your pain in there and it's sort of like your sacred place.
Ryals: And I was writing in Russian. When I was 16, I started
Ryals: learning English and I started writing in English
Ryals: and started writing for myself. And
Ryals: when I was 18, when I was 19, okay,
Ryals: that was 20. When I was 20, I recorded
Ryals: already two of my own songs.
Ryals: And then as I go on in 23, I
Ryals: released an album of mine, scold state of liberty.
Ryals: And I was like, listen, I'm enjoying writing
Ryals: songs. How cool that would be to write for somebody
Ryals: else and have some
Ryals: compensation for it and also, why
Ryals: not? And yeah, that was
Ryals: one of the dreams of mine. And then in 2000,
Ryals: no idea, four years ago,
Ryals: sometimes 16, I departed on.
Ryals: I lended a job. Well, I fought for the job to be a dancer on
Ryals: a cruise line. And we travelled the world and we actually crossed the
Ryals: Atlantic once again on a boat. Incredible
Ryals: experience. And I was a dancer. I worked as a dancer in a
Ryals: show on the cruise ship for seven months. And during that time, a
Ryals: manager of ukrainian artists contacts me. We sort of,
Ryals: like, met each other somewhere before
Ryals: and she's like, he's looking to record
Ryals: songs in English. Would you help him with writing lyrics?
Ryals: Like, oh, my God, absolutely, yes. And I think the first
Ryals: song was for Eurovision
Ryals: for the competition, but a year before he went.
Ryals: And ever since we started working with him, I am
Ryals: actually in the process of writing new lyrics for the new song of
Ryals: his. But he didn't make the club the first year
Ryals: to the Eurovision, so he carried on with
Ryals: creating an album and more music and more music. And I worked
Ryals: on most of the songs with him and then a year later,
Ryals: he's like, all right, we're going to try it again. Let's
Ryals: write another song for the Eurovision. And he
Ryals: did an incredible job. I was happy to be a
Ryals: part of it. And he made the cut. He went to
Ryals: Eurovision, put out a beautiful, beautiful
Ryals: performance and made it to the finals.
Ryals: And all in all, it was great to
Ryals: see our names together listed on the screen
Ryals: in Eurovision and him as a songwriter, me
Ryals: as a lyricist. It was beautiful,
Ryals: incredible. And Ukraine, I was here,
Ryals: living here already, and Ukraine was watching and
Ryals: screenshotting everything. What was going
Ryals: on there, like, oh, my God, did you write this song? Did you write this
Ryals: song? I'm like, not the song lyrics, but yes. Thank you.
Ryals: It was wonderful. My grandparents were very
Ryals: happy. Because lyrics and
Joanne Lockwood: songs are just a way of storytelling,
Joanne Lockwood: telling future generations, telling the people who listen to
Joanne Lockwood: you, your truth, your story, your message. And
Joanne Lockwood: through that, you can spread love or hate or whatever
Joanne Lockwood: message you want to share. And I'm hearing
Joanne Lockwood: that you're using your lyrics, your music, as a way
Joanne Lockwood: of empowering the younger generation
Joanne Lockwood: to live more freely and to show more acceptance to the world.
Joanne Lockwood: Is that what you're saying? Yeah.
Ryals: This has been my goal since I started
Ryals: writing, but I still seen
Ryals: this as a goal. But at the same time, I was dealing with my own
Ryals: pain and my own experience that I had to
Ryals: not outgrow, but experience and live
Ryals: through it. And now, as I'm 25, I
Ryals: finally have the feeling that I've
Ryals: been there. I actually been there and I'm
Ryals: here now. I've changed my life completely. I moved to the States, I'm living
Ryals: here. I got married, I came out
Ryals: and now I'm ready to not just speak my
Ryals: truth, but also to encourage those kids as
Ryals: I was once. And when you are 13,
Ryals: the world is still so hard on you. When you're 25, the world is hard
Ryals: on you when you're 60, the world is hard, but when you're 13, you don't
Ryals: have much experience to deal with it. And that's where
Ryals: you're looking for that, out there somewhere.
Ryals: And when I was 13, when I was
Ryals: 16, when I was going through my
Ryals: first falling in love and
Ryals: breaking out of love, but sort of breaking up, not even being
Ryals: together, because I fell in love with the guy
Ryals: the first time and I didn't know what to do with it. I didn't know
Ryals: who to tell. I didn't know what to do
Ryals: with the feelings that I'm experiencing. And
Ryals: that's where I got into one of
Ryals: the, I had two depressions in my life for a
Ryals: year that time. And when my dad passed away
Ryals: and that time I realised that if I don't
Ryals: pull myself out of there,
Ryals: nobody's going to. That's where I was looking
Ryals: for anybody to tell me anything, that I'm just going to be okay.
Ryals: That's where Lady Gaga really
Ryals: helped with her message and I appreciate her for
Ryals: that so much. There were so many
Ryals: people that have been doing it, but who made it to Ukraine,
Ryals: who made the cut to be screen and being on the
Ryals: radio, and then when you google her content and what
Ryals: is she saying? You hear that message and you know that,
Ryals: okay, so it is happening. It is true
Ryals: that the
Ryals: people do not accept sometimes people, and
Ryals: that's not okay, but it is what it is, but you still
Ryals: can make it and you can change your life for the better
Ryals: and just keep going. And
Ryals: I want to be one of those people
Ryals: who, if there's going to be
Ryals: 113 or 16 years old, who's going to listen
Ryals: to my message once and that's going to change his life,
Ryals: I will be the happiest person on earth. Because
Ryals: I realised one thing, I'm 25 and life is better now
Ryals: for me. And I thought that life is better for everybody right
Ryals: now as just looking through my perspective, I'm like,
Ryals: look at that, 16 years old. He looks like he's got it. He's got it
Ryals: all. He figured it out. I couldn't. But it's
Ryals: not true. It's not true. Some people didn't. Some people are still
Ryals: teenagers that need a lot of help to
Ryals: guide them through until
Ryals: they're in a better place. So my
Ryals: music and my storytelling through music videos, which
Ryals: we finally, I'm so happy. We just shot one
Ryals: this past weekend, which had a music video.
Ryals: And I'm continually working on more
Ryals: meaningful and more storytelling songs,
Ryals: which my days is sort of a
Ryals: breakthrough for me. Completely different from State of Liberty
Ryals: album, which was based on me dealing with
Ryals: my pain of loss
Ryals: in my days. It's sort of dealing with the world that was
Ryals: thrown at me and I had to grow up
Ryals: and find my place. Now, the song that
Ryals: I'm working on called great society,
Ryals: which starts with, I've been told all my
Ryals: life there is no place for me to be. Things like me don't
Ryals: survive in a great society. I have lived all my
Ryals: life hiding for the sake of life had
Ryals: no right to decide whether I had my right.
Ryals: I'll continue fighting for people because we are
Ryals: all the same at the core, and we all need help, and we all
Ryals: need acceptance and love.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. The other lyrics you sent me was, we
Joanne Lockwood: plan this life like there's tomorrow, like there's no injuries or
Joanne Lockwood: death, like there's no room for sorrow like I'll kiss your face in the
Joanne Lockwood: morrow. Subconsciously avoiding the mess. Very
Joanne Lockwood: powerful. Giving people inspiration that
Joanne Lockwood: we got to try and look in the positive. We've got to be there for
Joanne Lockwood: each other. We got to avoid the negative
Joanne Lockwood: sometimes and push forward with all the positives in life.
Ryals: Yeah, absolutely.
Ryals: Even if we are making a change in our
Ryals: lives, we still need a lot
Ryals: of help and a lot of support. So to be
Ryals: kind is the message, to be kind
Ryals: and to be
Ryals: empathetic. You never know what's going on with
Ryals: a person that's standing or sitting next to you.
Ryals: My mom actually planted that seed in me.
Ryals: She was telling me from the very, very beginning of my life,
Ryals: just imagine how would the other person
Ryals: feel? And that message was so strong when I would
Ryals: do anything bad, and I will. Oh, my
Ryals: God, that kid. Thank God for my parents. I don't know how
Ryals: they dealt with me, but I was trying. I didn't know what the world
Ryals: was. I was just, like, having fun. And sometimes
Ryals: having fun doesn't mean you're not hurting anybody.
Ryals: And that's what I always say, you can do in your life whatever
Ryals: you want as long as you're not hurting anybody
Ryals: else in any way.
Ryals: And yeah, she would always say, just imagine
Ryals: how would other person feel? And it would plant such
Ryals: a strong seed that grew into even a bigger forest of
Ryals: compassion that I would never on
Ryals: purpose do anything to hurt anybody
Ryals: in any way. And
Ryals: that gives me that ache for every person
Ryals: in the world on our planet, because we are all trying to make
Ryals: it. We're all trying to survive, all trying to eat,
Ryals: to sleep in a warm place
Ryals: while trying to escape persecution in any way. We're
Ryals: all just trying to be happy and to find a better
Ryals: life for ourselves. Because most of us
Ryals: live in poverty, most of us trying
Ryals: to make it from a paycheck to a paycheck, or even
Ryals: just trying to find where to get that
Ryals: paycheck, where to get that penny, where to get that dollar,
Ryals: to just feed your family. And my
Ryals: mom would always struggle, would always come back home, would always
Ryals: count every penny, write those
Ryals: bills, and lots of the time would cry,
Ryals: not knowing how to make it. And I only
Ryals: understood it. I saw it always, I'm like, mom, don't cry. But
Ryals: I only understood it when I just moved to the states.
Ryals: And I knew if I don't make the
Ryals: dollar, I'm not going to be able to pay the rent. I don't have anybody
Ryals: who's going to help me with the rent. So if I don't pay the rent,
Ryals: I'll be homeless in a country that is still new to me.
Ryals: If I don't make extra dollar, I will not eat. So most
Ryals: of the time, I would get through the day just with one sandwich.
Ryals: And then I called my mom and I said, mom, I
Ryals: finally understand you. And I still do not understand
Ryals: how still every night you go to
Ryals: bed thinking how you're going to feed your family
Ryals: tomorrow. So I try to help my
Ryals: family as much as possible, but
Ryals: it's most of us, it's a lot of people. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: I was just hunting around on the Internet there, and I found
Joanne Lockwood: your track my days and found it on Amazon music. Sweet. Are
Joanne Lockwood: you. I'm going to have to download that and listen to that.
Joanne Lockwood: A. It's a big deal. You're a proper music
Joanne Lockwood: artist, aren't you? You've got a career. I mean, I love
Joanne Lockwood: in the COVID that artwork. Is that you with
Joanne Lockwood: the. I'm guessing it is you. I can see you in there.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. So that's you with the clouds on your eyes. It is totally
Ryals: me. Totally. Seen that idea somewhere.
Ryals: So I borrowed it, made it a little
Ryals: different. But I love the sky
Ryals: covering the face. And,
Ryals: yeah, I had this idea and the track was already
Ryals: ready. I had to upload it to the Internet for it to come out on
Ryals: a specific date. And I told my husband John, I'm like,
Ryals: all right, could you please take a picture of me that's going to
Ryals: be on the COVID of the song? He's like, sure. And
Ryals: I put a lamp behind my back.
Ryals: I threw a napkin on it so it created
Ryals: this beautiful sunset colour
Ryals: behind my back. Before the napkin got on fire, we took
Ryals: a few pictures that I then cropped and edited
Ryals: and put a sky on my face and sent to
Ryals: my friend who just wrote riled my days. And
Ryals: here he goes. I'm like, oh, my God, I love it.
Ryals: It's so nice. Just like, you just had a workout.
Joanne Lockwood: You kind of got this nice sort of.
Ryals: He's like, all right, you ready?
Ryals: My husband was like, you're ready? I'm like, wait, I need
Ryals: to spray myself. Yes.
Joanne Lockwood: It's a great photo. It's beautiful.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, I want to see the one without the clouds now I want to see
Joanne Lockwood: the full shot. So we have to send me that one. Yeah,
Ryals: put it in the show notes. You've got big
Joanne Lockwood: plans. This is just the beginning
Joanne Lockwood: of your music and dance career and songwriting career. So
Joanne Lockwood: if you've got big ambitions, I mean, I know you've got big
Joanne Lockwood: ambitions. You've upsticks and fled across the world,
Joanne Lockwood: arrived in New York, you're not going to be beaten. So
Joanne Lockwood: what's your mission? Are you working with record producers
Joanne Lockwood: or shows? I appreciate
Joanne Lockwood: Covid and lockdown has probably put a bit of a dent on it for a
Joanne Lockwood: while, but what are your ambitions? Are we going to see you headlining
Joanne Lockwood: with Lady Gaga at some point? Oh, my God, that'd be a dream.
Ryals: I would just like to meet her, to tell her, thank you very
Ryals: much for guiding a lot of us through.
Ryals: Oh, my God, I'm going to have tears on my eyes.
Ryals: I had my dance and singing career, or
Ryals: just my life since the very beginning. I was very artsy. I
Ryals: would sing from since I was like four. I would have concerts
Ryals: and my dad's work. I
Ryals: would come, my mom would put me on a chair and everybody would stop work
Ryals: and I would sing a whole concert of 40 minutes to everybody.
Ryals: And then I was singing and
Ryals: dancing at twelve, as I said, we went to
Ryals: Hungary for a dance competition. Then after school,
Ryals: I enrolled into art academy
Ryals: to get my acting degree, degree in
Ryals: acting and as an acting teacher as
Ryals: well. Then I
Ryals: got into musical theatre in Ukraine
Ryals: and was there for two years.
Ryals: Then I embarked on this journey on the boat
Ryals: around the world, dancing, and they held
Ryals: the rehearsals in New York. So it was a
Ryals: great comeback. After three years, I came back
Ryals: and then I came back home. I recorded the whole album that I already
Ryals: put together on the ship. I'm like, all right, this is the time I have
Ryals: to take this first step as a recording artist because I
Ryals: am in my head for ten years, but I have to actually
Ryals: do it. And then three
Ryals: months I'm recording an album and then I'm departing on
Ryals: even bigger journey because I'm going to New York
Ryals: and see how that
Ryals: know so much have happened
Ryals: during my life already. Before that, I was always in a rush.
Ryals: I was always trying to get out of where I was. I was trying
Ryals: to make my life more real
Ryals: for me and not hiding behind anything anymore.
Ryals: And dance and sing and act and dance and sing and act and
Ryals: always switching cultures, switching countries, switching
Ryals: languages, like switching surround people
Ryals: that surrounding me, friends and family, not that I've switched completely,
Ryals: but now they're behind 7 hours
Ryals: ahead of me. So we're always on the phone.
Ryals: And that's where I had to start working with the
Ryals: psychological because I just said to her, this is
Ryals: a lot. I don't even
Ryals: know what my dream is anymore. I think I've just ran so
Ryals: far that I don't know where I am. So for two years,
Ryals: I sort of, like, took a huge break from everything artsy.
Ryals: I was just trying to survive and working lots of jobs
Ryals: and getting to know the culture and people and
Ryals: making that feel like home from scratch.
Ryals: So as I started working with the psychologist, I started working
Ryals: with music consultant from Nashville.
Ryals: I said to him, listen, I haven't done anything in two years.
Ryals: This is me. Here I am. I've been writing some music, but
Ryals: I don't even know what to do with it anymore. And I started working with
Ryals: the psychological at the same time. And I said, I don't know what my dream
Ryals: is anymore. And it's been four
Ryals: months, and I have never felt
Ryals: so good because
Ryals: I see my dream again. I established myself
Ryals: as a person on the other side, sort of. I'm not the person who needs
Ryals: help. I'm the person who can give help. Either it's a word,
Ryals: either it's some financial
Ryals: fundraising that my husband does such a good job with that
Ryals: because we partnered with
Ryals: Rainbow Railroad organisation that we
Ryals: met about a year ago.
Ryals: Organisation located in Canada,
Ryals: has some office here in the States,
Ryals: and they help LGBTQI people escape
Ryals: persecution physically. They trying
Ryals: to get them a visa. They trying to get them a flight ticket.
Ryals: They trying to help them to establish themselves in another
Ryals: country. They constantly
Ryals: need money, constantly. Because to
Ryals: transfer one person from a country to a country,
Ryals: it's a minimum, $13,000 a
Ryals: minimum. And they receive so many letters with, please,
Ryals: I need help. I don't know how to carry on with my life.
Ryals: And I found myself that, yeah, this is it. I have
Ryals: changed my life, and now I can try and
Ryals: help somebody else. So this where
Ryals: the music is not just spilling out my emotions.
Ryals: That's where the music is, the voice of me and
Ryals: of many, many other people that feel
Ryals: that. They don't express it in music or words, but they feel that.
Ryals: And I want to be the voice of
Ryals: us, of those people, of all of us.
Ryals: So that's where the music became my voice now. And
Ryals: now I know what to do with it and where to go. So
Ryals: I'm very blessed, very happy to work on the music again.
Ryals: My days was out a few weeks
Ryals: ago now we shot a music video. Now we are recording great
Ryals: society and we'll put together the ep,
Ryals: hopefully by winter, and there's so many more plans
Ryals: for spring with new music
Ryals: and hopefully the pandemic will be over
Ryals: soon. So partnering with
Ryals: Gab organisation, which is generation against bullying,
Ryals: me and a few other artists will depart on a school
Ryals: tour around the country and performing
Ryals: and talking to kids about
Ryals: kindness and love and support and no
Ryals: bullying allowed. Amazing
Joanne Lockwood: helping. Any suicidal thoughts. And,
Ryals: yeah, there's so much to do.
Ryals: Husband always say so much to.
Joanne Lockwood: So you must look at your life today versus the
Joanne Lockwood: life in Ukraine that you could have had. And
Joanne Lockwood: there's no comparison really, is there? I mean, you must love
Joanne Lockwood: your parents, your family, your country of birth, where you're brought up, that culture,
Joanne Lockwood: but you've gained so much acceptance in
Joanne Lockwood: America, in your new life that this must be
Joanne Lockwood: real hard for your brain to sort of say to still love your
Joanne Lockwood: country because you're so embraced where you are now and you can't necessarily be yourself
Joanne Lockwood: at home, can you? Or your birth, right?
Ryals: Yeah, that's something I talk about
Ryals: with my psychological about because my first
Ryals: sessions were. Sorry for sharing
Ryals: very personal things. My first sessions were, I'm
Ryals: like, I couldn't find my
Ryals: life in Ukraine and what
Ryals: if know, I will not be
Ryals: complete person as well because my family is there.
Ryals: How does it work? Where does one find peace?
Ryals: I was very confused.
Ryals: I think I found peace. I think I'm very happy with my
Ryals: family being there with me being here.
Ryals: Cannot wait to visit them. Absolutely. I think that would be
Ryals: a new phase in my life when we are seeing each other and
Ryals: I'm seeing my friends and definitely,
Ryals: but I went through so many phases in my life where as
Ryals: growing up. So you're that 13 years old boy and you do not understand
Ryals: why the whole world is against you, which the whole
Ryals: world is your country and your surroundings. You don't know any
Ryals: other experiences, so you do not understand. So I was
Ryals: hating my country, I was hating people. I had so much
Ryals: hate that I just did not understand
Ryals: why. Just literally the question why.
Ryals: And then I've come to realise, I think after
Ryals: I visited states and I came back and my dad passed away and that was
Ryals: that year of grief. And as I was coming out of that
Ryals: depression, year of depression, I realised I don't hate my
Ryals: country, I think it's all for a reason.
Ryals: I think that is making me stronger. Thank God it didn't
Ryals: break me, but it is making me stronger
Ryals: and it's time to move on. I'm thankful for
Ryals: all the experience and how I grew up because maybe
Ryals: I appreciate other experiences now more.
Ryals: And here I actually do have the
Ryals: opportunity of be myself and
Ryals: be the voice, because honestly, I don't know if
Ryals: I personally, me, would be able to do it in
Ryals: Ukraine. Some people do, some people do not. And
Ryals: I'm very, very proud and happy for people who can because they're even
Ryals: maybe stronger than me.
Ryals: They fighting in the zone of war
Ryals: and I'm fighting from sort of
Ryals: a safe place, let's say. But I had to
Ryals: gain this feeling of safety to be able
Ryals: to carry on with my message.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. So through love, through peace, you're spreading your message rather than through
Joanne Lockwood: arms and struggle. Yes. So yours are more peaceful.
Joanne Lockwood: So not only have you found peace, you found a passion and you found a
Joanne Lockwood: purpose to your life that you didn't have before. So
Joanne Lockwood: all those things come together to make life have meaning for
Joanne Lockwood: you. You're absolutely right. Yeah. I always had
Ryals: a feeling that once I'll be the
Ryals: voice. I'm 14, I'm 15, once I'll be the
Ryals: Voice, I'm sure the pain that I experience,
Ryals: a lot of people do, but I couldn't. I couldn't because I
Ryals: was in pain. And if you are in pain, I don't think you
Ryals: can help somebody unless you overcame it and you
Ryals: have the word of kindness to say you're going
Ryals: to make it too. It's not going to be easy, but you're going to.
Ryals: We all do. Yeah. You need
Joanne Lockwood: to remove your own pain to a certain point before you can help others, because
Joanne Lockwood: you're not careful, you end up mixing your
Joanne Lockwood: pain with their pain. You've got to kind of be in that comfortable position where
Joanne Lockwood: you find yourself first before you can help others. Yeah. So
Joanne Lockwood: this small town boy from Ukraine,
Joanne Lockwood: a Harry Potter fan,
Joanne Lockwood: ended up in New York, living the dream,
Joanne Lockwood: writing music, having a song as part
Joanne Lockwood: of the Eurovision. This must be kind of
Joanne Lockwood: at the age of twelve or 13, you couldn't have predicted everything
Joanne Lockwood: you've had. You may have found you wanted it, but you couldn't see it
Joanne Lockwood: until you did it, could you? Yeah, that's true. And then. That
Ryals: is absolutely true. And when you did it or we do
Ryals: it, then you're looking back at that boy at 13,
Ryals: and then you tell yourself, oh, my God, wait,
Ryals: so I am living a dream, despite
Ryals: all the struggle, despite anything that life throws at you? It is
Ryals: life, but you are living a dream.
Ryals: Yeah, that's true. It's your life, nobody else's. And
Joanne Lockwood: you've taken control and owned it, and you're doing it for yourself,
Joanne Lockwood: for the benefit of others as well. Yeah. So you
Joanne Lockwood: still got family back in Ukraine? Do you have brothers or
Joanne Lockwood: sisters? I have a younger brother. Yeah, he's 20 now.
Joanne Lockwood: 20, wow. Is he going to follow you
Joanne Lockwood: or is he finding his own life in Ukraine? Has he got his own
Joanne Lockwood: mission? I think he is right at the moment
Ryals: of figuring out what
Ryals: is the position in life he's going to take what is his
Ryals: life. Because he was
Ryals: 13, I was 18. He was 13 when dad passed away.
Ryals: Yeah. And we are different.
Ryals: Definitely. I cannot compare our lives at all. I wish
Ryals: him the happiest life ever,
Ryals: but he going to have to create it on his own. And I'm
Ryals: always there for him to help him, to
Ryals: motivate him as much as I can. Every day, anytime, anytime, love him
Ryals: to death. But I think right now he's at the moment
Ryals: where he has to work. He is forced to work because
Ryals: there's no money. So you have to have money, but
Ryals: you're still 20. You're just 20, and the whole life
Ryals: is ahead of you. And I just want to plant that seed in his head
Ryals: that you don't have to work that work. You can try a million
Ryals: different jobs before you find yourself. Because he found that
Ryals: what he does right now, it's not exactly the purpose of life and it does
Ryals: not make him happy.
Ryals: But he needs to expand his
Ryals: bubble to see other experiences, to see
Ryals: other countries and people and everything,
Ryals: and then decide what he wants to do. It doesn't have
Ryals: to be if he cannot do it otherwise, like, I
Ryals: want to do this and I'll pursue it, then try a million things and then.
Joanne Lockwood: Pick one that's so powerful, you can have a
Joanne Lockwood: million different jobs. You can have a million different lives. That is so true. And
Joanne Lockwood: I think often we're told we have to make a
Joanne Lockwood: decision and stick with it. Actually, no, we can try something out
Joanne Lockwood: and say at any point, I'm free, I can change, I don't need to
Joanne Lockwood: be living by some rule. I can find my own freedom, find
Joanne Lockwood: my own direction. So that's very powerful. It's a great takeaway.
Ryals: It's the hardest to do when the only people that
Ryals: influence you are your parents, because you're still little
Ryals: and your parents tell you that. Find
Ryals: a job, make money, be safe,
Ryals: stick to it, don't change anything. And when you grow up
Ryals: with that, every day, you're hearing that, of course your body is going to be
Ryals: like, wait, so is that true? Do I have to live by that truth? What
Ryals: if that does not make me happy? Do I still have to stick to it?
Ryals: And it's hard. Even if you have a person or you find a person who
Ryals: tells you otherwise, you actually can follow your dreams, you actually can do
Ryals: whatever you want. If you don't have a dream, you'll find one. But look for
Ryals: it. Don't go for
Ryals: less. If it does not make you happy. If it does, oh, please
Ryals: stay. Like, you don't have to feel pressured that you have to do everything in
Ryals: the world. If staying in a small town, doing a small thing,
Ryals: makes you happy, please do. That is incredible. If
Ryals: it does make you happy, don't feel pressured. Never.
Ryals: I always. Your version of happy is the important thing. You're happy
Joanne Lockwood: with what you're doing. Ask yourself, what is it
Ryals: that's making you happy? And then
Ryals: I said, don't listen to other people who tell
Ryals: you otherwise. It helped me.
Ryals: People will tell you always only something from
Ryals: their own perspective, from their own unaccomplishment
Ryals: or their own jealousy or something. People
Ryals: who made it, actually, or people who are happy going to tell you,
Ryals: just do what makes you happy. They're not going to tell you,
Ryals: stick with one job. They're not going to tell you, you
Ryals: have to do something. I think when you
Joanne Lockwood: meet someone who's truly happy, you don't always realise that that person
Joanne Lockwood: has been unhappy a fair few times to find out what makes
Joanne Lockwood: them happy eventually. And that you don't always find happiness first
Joanne Lockwood: time. But you've got to have the strength and courage to
Joanne Lockwood: keep exploring your own happiness and to keep looking for
Joanne Lockwood: it. Don't settle if it's not making you happy,
Joanne Lockwood: but you're right. When you find it, enjoy it.
Joanne Lockwood: Be there. Yes. Definitely
Ryals: realise that that's the thing that makes you happy.
Ryals: Keep it until it does. If it doesn't, carry on,
Ryals: don't be afraid doing it. Get on that plane. Get on that plane.
Joanne Lockwood: Please find a new life. Please
Joanne Lockwood: do. Well, we've spent over an hour
Joanne Lockwood: together before the show, we were chatting away as well. And no doubt we'll
Joanne Lockwood: probably chat some more before we hang up. But I mean, that's been amazing. It's
Joanne Lockwood: been really great to get to know you, to learn about
Joanne Lockwood: the person, the man behind the text, the
Joanne Lockwood: words, the songs. I found your website,
Joanne Lockwood: which is riles official. It's
Joanne Lockwood: Ryals official, and I've just been
Joanne Lockwood: on it. I'm having a look. It's got your album cover there or your song
Joanne Lockwood: cover. You can listen to the track and you can download
Joanne Lockwood: it, buy it, got behind the scenes so people can find out more about
Joanne Lockwood: you as well. And it's some great stuff there. So, yeah,
Joanne Lockwood: if you're listening, visit milesofficial.com. It'll be in the show
Joanne Lockwood: notes. And you're big on Instagram as well. Have you got an
Joanne Lockwood: Instagram account as well? Yes, it's Ryals
Ryals: official as well.
Ryals: Made it clear my friend was joking about it. It's
Ryals: like, oh, you're official now.
Ryals: Totally am. Ryals, that's your married name. Is
Joanne Lockwood: it official? Is your married. Oh, yeah, now it's all official.
Ryals: It's not playing around. Yes, please find
Ryals: me on Instagram, and if you have any questions or
Ryals: just want to share your story, please do. I always try to answer
Ryals: everybody. I love getting to know new people,
Ryals: and I have so many people
Ryals: around the world that started as like, oh, hi, I
Ryals: love your pictures, too. Right now it's like,
Ryals: how's your career going? I'm asking them or they're asking me, and just like,
Ryals: chatting about life and their experiences, their pain
Ryals: so much. And we are so different, but so
Ryals: the same. It's crazy how we are. And if we speak the
Ryals: language of love or kindness, we're totally the same and going through the same
Ryals: things. And I love, love getting to know people
Ryals: from each and every part of the world
Ryals: that makes it so our huge planet, cosy and
Ryals: small. Looking at the website,
Joanne Lockwood: I mean, there's some really powerful photographs of you on stage,
Joanne Lockwood: some beautiful lighting, beautiful costumes,
Joanne Lockwood: and you look incredible in all of them. Thank
Ryals: you. If nothing else, go and just cheque
Joanne Lockwood: out Ryan's abs.
Ryals: Oh, my God. Thank you. It's some great shots there.
Joanne Lockwood: So, yeah, listen to the music, follow bites
Joanne Lockwood: on Instagram and cheque out Ryles website. There's
Joanne Lockwood: some great artistic talent there. It looks like you've been in
Joanne Lockwood: cats or something because you're wearing a furry suit in one of the
Joanne Lockwood: shots.
Joanne Lockwood: There's some great stuff there, so go and cheque it out. So Miles, thank
Joanne Lockwood: you. Thank you. Thank you, audience. Thank you for
Joanne Lockwood: listening. Thank you for staying with us.
Joanne Lockwood: A huge thank you for getting this far.
Joanne Lockwood: It's been inspirational for myself. So if you're listening, please
Joanne Lockwood: do subscribe to keep updated on future episodes of the inclusion bites
Joanne Lockwood: podcast. That's B-I-T-E-S. Tell your friends, tell your colleagues,
Joanne Lockwood: and ask them to subscribe as well. I've got a number of other
Joanne Lockwood: exciting guests lined up that surely be equally inspired by over the next few
Joanne Lockwood: weeks and months. And of course, if you'd like to be a guest, if you're
Joanne Lockwood: listening in, you'd like to take part, then please do. You don't have to be
Joanne Lockwood: a global music superstar to come on the show. You could
Joanne Lockwood: have a dream, you could be finding your happiness and you want to share that.
Joanne Lockwood: So I welcome any suggestions or feedback you may have to
Joanne Lockwood: jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk.
Joanne Lockwood: Co, UK. Tell me about future shows. Tell me how we
Joanne Lockwood: can improve. So, finally, all this to say is, my
Joanne Lockwood: name is Joanne Lockwood and it's been an absolute pleasure to be your host today
Joanne Lockwood: for this podcast. Catch you next time. Bye.