WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.770 --> 00:00:05.546 Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood and I'm your host for the Inclusion 2 00:00:05.578 --> 00:00:09.246 Bites podcast. In this series, I will be interviewing a number of amazing 3 00:00:09.348 --> 00:00:13.002 people and simply having a conversation around the subject of inclusion, 4 00:00:13.146 --> 00:00:16.446 belonging and generally making the world a better place for everyone to 5 00:00:16.468 --> 00:00:20.218 thrive. If you'd like to join me in the future, then please do drop 6 00:00:20.234 --> 00:00:21.022 me a line to 7 00:00:21.076 --> 00:00:24.818 jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. That's 8 00:00:24.954 --> 00:00:28.626 the S-E-E Change Happen dot Co dot UK. UK. You can catch 9 00:00:28.658 --> 00:00:32.294 up with all of the previous shows on iTunes, Spotify and the 10 00:00:32.332 --> 00:00:35.638 usual places. So plug in your headphones, grab a 11 00:00:35.644 --> 00:00:39.018 decaf and let's get going. Today 12 00:00:39.184 --> 00:00:42.854 is episode 21 with the title planting 13 00:00:42.902 --> 00:00:46.698 a seed of kindness and understanding. And I have 14 00:00:46.704 --> 00:00:49.610 the absolute honour and privilege to be joined by Ryals. 15 00:00:50.110 --> 00:00:53.738 Ryals described himself as a boy from a small town in Ukraine 16 00:00:53.834 --> 00:00:57.646 who had big dreams and refused to listen to anyone who told him 17 00:00:57.668 --> 00:01:01.434 otherwise. When I asked Ryals to describe his superpower, 18 00:01:01.482 --> 00:01:04.946 he said, being connected directly to the source of 19 00:01:04.968 --> 00:01:07.250 energy that his body is producing. 20 00:01:08.470 --> 00:01:12.050 Hello, Ryals. Welcome to the show. Good morning, 21 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:15.698 Joanne. It is my pleasure to be here today. You 22 00:01:15.864 --> 00:01:19.010 said grab a decaf. I would grab coffee, 23 00:01:19.670 --> 00:01:23.142 just regular and tonnes of it, because it's still 09:30 in 24 00:01:23.196 --> 00:01:26.934 the morning in New York and I definitely need some coffee to 25 00:01:26.972 --> 00:01:30.806 wake up. I am so honoured to be 26 00:01:30.838 --> 00:01:32.362 here and to meet you. Cheers. 27 00:01:35.710 --> 00:01:39.020 Cheers. Today 28 00:01:39.470 --> 00:01:42.686 we can't hit Starbucks. We got to make our own today, haven't we? We have 29 00:01:42.708 --> 00:01:46.494 to still lock down. Today is actually the first day in New York 30 00:01:46.532 --> 00:01:50.074 when it's a bit cloudy and the weather dropped to 13 31 00:01:50.122 --> 00:01:53.838 degrees celsius, which has made us even closer. I 32 00:01:53.844 --> 00:01:57.506 don't know how it is in UK right now, but it 33 00:01:57.528 --> 00:02:01.358 feels very autumn. It's been a bit of a mini 34 00:02:01.374 --> 00:02:05.042 heat wave. We're about 22 degrees over here at the moment, 35 00:02:05.096 --> 00:02:08.422 which is what? I'm not sure what that is in fahrenheit, but in 36 00:02:08.476 --> 00:02:12.006 european measures, it's about 22 and it's actually quite 37 00:02:12.188 --> 00:02:15.926 nice for middle of September. Yeah, very good. Nice. All right, 38 00:02:15.948 --> 00:02:19.386 so we exchanged a little. We got you the heat wave and we 39 00:02:19.408 --> 00:02:23.046 got. It's a very british 40 00:02:23.078 --> 00:02:25.740 conversation talking about the Weather. I know. 41 00:02:29.550 --> 00:02:32.590 A Ukrainian in New York. Talking about the weather with a Brit 42 00:02:33.410 --> 00:02:36.830 I have prepared. So let's talk about the weather. 43 00:02:37.170 --> 00:02:40.160 I know, yeah. 44 00:02:40.770 --> 00:02:44.546 Tell me, in the show notes, you put 45 00:02:44.648 --> 00:02:48.466 this phrase in there, planting the seed of kindness and understanding. So 46 00:02:48.568 --> 00:02:51.460 what does that mean to you? Where did that come from? 47 00:02:52.310 --> 00:02:55.938 I'll start with my father. My father 48 00:02:56.034 --> 00:02:59.400 was my stepfather, but 49 00:02:59.770 --> 00:03:03.334 he raised me from when I was one and a half years 50 00:03:03.372 --> 00:03:06.054 old. And my father, he passed away in 51 00:03:06.092 --> 00:03:09.562 2013, but he was the one 52 00:03:09.696 --> 00:03:13.514 who was that spiritual person in 53 00:03:13.552 --> 00:03:17.100 my life who would always told me things 54 00:03:17.470 --> 00:03:20.618 so wisely and so subtle 55 00:03:20.714 --> 00:03:24.174 that I think that was planting a seed in 56 00:03:24.212 --> 00:03:27.694 me, in that kid who did not understand what is he 57 00:03:27.732 --> 00:03:31.310 saying? But in years that, see, 58 00:03:31.650 --> 00:03:34.994 would grow into a big, big tree and a big, big 59 00:03:35.032 --> 00:03:38.850 forest. And I think he was the one who planted 60 00:03:39.750 --> 00:03:43.394 kindness and love and compassion and 61 00:03:43.432 --> 00:03:46.710 empathy to the whole entire world 62 00:03:46.860 --> 00:03:50.230 and to the people I know and to friends 63 00:03:50.300 --> 00:03:54.050 and family. And I still recall 64 00:03:54.130 --> 00:03:57.880 his words in every step of the way in my life. 65 00:03:58.430 --> 00:04:02.186 And, yeah, I think 66 00:04:02.208 --> 00:04:05.594 he was the one. He was the one who started that process in 67 00:04:05.632 --> 00:04:08.300 me, turning that little boy 68 00:04:08.750 --> 00:04:11.790 into a man with understanding. 69 00:04:12.690 --> 00:04:16.222 So I was growing up being 70 00:04:16.276 --> 00:04:19.518 gay in Ukraine, growing up in the 71 00:04:19.524 --> 00:04:23.326 closet, under the 72 00:04:23.348 --> 00:04:27.054 pressure of society and under the pressure of my own 73 00:04:27.092 --> 00:04:29.280 friends and family, who 74 00:04:30.930 --> 00:04:34.254 would joke around with shame, not 75 00:04:34.292 --> 00:04:37.718 me, because I wouldn't let myself. Since 76 00:04:37.884 --> 00:04:40.760 I was 13, I said to myself, no more. 77 00:04:41.690 --> 00:04:44.840 I have to create this shield. I have to be 78 00:04:45.290 --> 00:04:48.970 as straight as possible, I have to be as 79 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:52.780 smart as possible, as wise as possible, as kind as possible to. 80 00:04:54.350 --> 00:04:58.122 Just by having this shield show people 81 00:04:58.176 --> 00:05:01.866 that you're not going to get me, so you don't 82 00:05:01.898 --> 00:05:03.120 even have to try. 83 00:05:05.330 --> 00:05:09.134 And the shield was growing over the years, over ten 84 00:05:09.172 --> 00:05:11.600 years of my life, when 85 00:05:12.870 --> 00:05:16.050 I would not recognise myself anymore. 86 00:05:16.390 --> 00:05:20.098 And I thought that this is me. I 87 00:05:20.104 --> 00:05:23.778 guess I've shaded myself into who I am, even though this is a 88 00:05:23.864 --> 00:05:27.000 completely different person. And now I'm having 89 00:05:27.690 --> 00:05:30.440 troubles with myself, troubles living my life, 90 00:05:32.730 --> 00:05:36.520 but yet I still had a dream to change it, to change 91 00:05:37.790 --> 00:05:41.258 my surroundings, to change my life, because this is my life 92 00:05:41.344 --> 00:05:43.980 and I have to build it. 93 00:05:46.110 --> 00:05:49.100 That's when I moved to the United States and 94 00:05:50.370 --> 00:05:54.126 started my new journey, the journey of who I 95 00:05:54.148 --> 00:05:57.838 really am. And still with the words 96 00:05:58.004 --> 00:06:01.534 of my father in my heart, that you'll make 97 00:06:01.572 --> 00:06:05.406 it, you're the kindest 98 00:06:05.438 --> 00:06:08.340 person I know, and, 99 00:06:09.670 --> 00:06:13.186 yeah, that everything's going to be okay, even though you don't have the 100 00:06:13.208 --> 00:06:16.440 answers now. Keep going. Carry on. 101 00:06:18.170 --> 00:06:21.926 That must have been a real moment in 102 00:06:21.948 --> 00:06:25.254 your life when you made that decision to leave your 103 00:06:25.292 --> 00:06:28.220 hometown, your family or your friends, 104 00:06:28.990 --> 00:06:32.522 and ship yourself off 105 00:06:32.656 --> 00:06:36.346 to New York, even though the world is a 106 00:06:36.368 --> 00:06:40.158 smaller place than it today, than it was 30, 40 years ago. That's still a 107 00:06:40.164 --> 00:06:43.886 big deal, isn't it? To go from one culture that 108 00:06:43.908 --> 00:06:47.182 is significantly different to another culture, isn't it? And 109 00:06:47.316 --> 00:06:50.800 alone, effectively, yeah, absolutely. 110 00:06:52.930 --> 00:06:56.706 I don't know if that's the movies that shaped me, that 111 00:06:56.728 --> 00:06:59.662 shaped my brain, that there is a better life somewhere, 112 00:06:59.806 --> 00:07:03.278 or just the longing inside that if I don't 113 00:07:03.294 --> 00:07:07.042 belong to this place, I'm sure there is a place on earth 114 00:07:07.106 --> 00:07:10.854 right now where I could find myself. And I 115 00:07:10.892 --> 00:07:13.560 always had know New York was like my 116 00:07:14.170 --> 00:07:17.542 north Star, that I would always see 117 00:07:17.596 --> 00:07:21.386 somewhere. I didn't know what's behind it, I didn't know what's there, but it 118 00:07:21.408 --> 00:07:25.194 was sort of a direction for me to go. And 119 00:07:25.232 --> 00:07:28.362 when you have this direction, when you have hope in your heart, you can go 120 00:07:28.416 --> 00:07:32.014 through the most difficult experiences in your 121 00:07:32.052 --> 00:07:35.770 life just because you know that somewhere, 122 00:07:35.850 --> 00:07:39.246 you believe that somewhere, there is a 123 00:07:39.268 --> 00:07:43.006 solution, or you just have a sense of direction where you have to 124 00:07:43.028 --> 00:07:46.638 go. So when I was 18, my family 125 00:07:46.724 --> 00:07:50.494 and Mia, we didn't have any money, any big money, so nobody 126 00:07:50.542 --> 00:07:54.386 would even dream of flying somewhere, not 127 00:07:54.488 --> 00:07:57.894 moving somewhere. And here was 128 00:07:57.932 --> 00:08:01.398 me, 13 years old. Like, when I'm going to 129 00:08:01.404 --> 00:08:04.886 be 18, I'll travel the 130 00:08:04.908 --> 00:08:08.490 world. I'll be trying to move to America. 131 00:08:09.070 --> 00:08:12.140 I'll be in New York. I'll start my life. And 132 00:08:12.670 --> 00:08:15.770 that's where nobody, 133 00:08:16.350 --> 00:08:20.074 nobody would even think that that would be possible. So 134 00:08:20.112 --> 00:08:23.886 nobody would find those words. You know, you just believe in 135 00:08:23.908 --> 00:08:27.470 yourself. You just carry on. Except my father, 136 00:08:30.130 --> 00:08:33.794 before very the end, we would have that 137 00:08:33.832 --> 00:08:36.980 conversation and he would say how much he believes in me. 138 00:08:37.750 --> 00:08:41.554 But nobody until then was like, yeah, you're going to make it. Even 139 00:08:41.592 --> 00:08:43.970 though that seemed ridiculously 140 00:08:44.890 --> 00:08:48.040 hard, nobody would find a word to 141 00:08:49.050 --> 00:08:52.600 encourage that. So that's where you had to 142 00:08:54.090 --> 00:08:57.462 shape yourself into this strong person with self 143 00:08:57.516 --> 00:09:01.242 motivation, with seeing 144 00:09:01.296 --> 00:09:04.886 that North Star, even in a cloudy day, just knowing it's 145 00:09:04.918 --> 00:09:08.646 there, even if you can see it now, you just know it's 146 00:09:08.678 --> 00:09:11.440 there and the cloud is going to move, and you're going to see it again. 147 00:09:12.290 --> 00:09:15.982 And when I was 18, I said to my mom, 148 00:09:16.036 --> 00:09:19.726 all right, well, I'm 18 now. In the summer, there's a 149 00:09:19.748 --> 00:09:23.394 programme called work and travel. I think I'm going to travel 150 00:09:23.592 --> 00:09:26.580 to the United States and see how it goes. 151 00:09:27.510 --> 00:09:30.500 And that's where my mom freaked out. 152 00:09:31.270 --> 00:09:35.074 She actually found out that that was real. She actually found 153 00:09:35.112 --> 00:09:38.520 out that my words that I was saying and preparing her for five years, 154 00:09:38.890 --> 00:09:42.566 that they are real. And she cried. She started crying. She's like, what do you 155 00:09:42.588 --> 00:09:45.640 mean? How is it possible? Why? 156 00:09:46.810 --> 00:09:50.582 And I worked hard, a few jobs 157 00:09:50.726 --> 00:09:54.362 during my university years, and 158 00:09:54.416 --> 00:09:55.850 I had a scholarship. 159 00:09:58.030 --> 00:10:01.854 So I just gathered all my money 160 00:10:01.892 --> 00:10:05.726 together, borrowed some money, and was able 161 00:10:05.748 --> 00:10:09.262 to pay for that programme. I still don't know 162 00:10:09.316 --> 00:10:13.122 how, but it happened. I just wanted it so much that 163 00:10:13.176 --> 00:10:14.580 nothing could stop me. 164 00:10:16.550 --> 00:10:20.162 And there I am crying on the plane when we are 165 00:10:20.296 --> 00:10:22.420 landing in the United States. 166 00:10:25.770 --> 00:10:29.142 Yeah. Facing new challenges. I think that will shape me 167 00:10:29.196 --> 00:10:31.800 into a prison that I am right now. 168 00:10:33.130 --> 00:10:36.310 But that's where the journey begins 169 00:10:36.650 --> 00:10:40.140 of me sort of 170 00:10:40.910 --> 00:10:44.460 reevaluating my life and 171 00:10:45.310 --> 00:10:48.810 finding a way to live your true life. 172 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:52.606 And though it will happen five years later, but I think that would 173 00:10:52.628 --> 00:10:56.302 be a hook in my brain that will start a 174 00:10:56.356 --> 00:10:59.150 completely new process of thoughts. 175 00:11:01.730 --> 00:11:05.422 Had you travelled much before or was this your first 176 00:11:05.476 --> 00:11:07.490 venture across the Atlantic? 177 00:11:09.030 --> 00:11:12.706 I think I travelled to Hungary when 178 00:11:12.728 --> 00:11:16.294 I was twelve with the group of my 179 00:11:16.332 --> 00:11:20.134 dancing group. We attended a competition. That was my 180 00:11:20.172 --> 00:11:23.560 first abroad trip. And then, 181 00:11:26.410 --> 00:11:29.800 yeah, I think that was my first trip. And right across. 182 00:11:31.550 --> 00:11:35.050 And then I came back and I travelled a little around 183 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:38.330 Europe, sort of with a backpack, 184 00:11:40.690 --> 00:11:44.394 hitchhiking. There was great experience. The cheapest 185 00:11:44.442 --> 00:11:47.774 hotels, the car from town to 186 00:11:47.812 --> 00:11:51.514 town, from Budapest to Vienna, from Vienna to Graz, 187 00:11:51.562 --> 00:11:54.660 from grads to Venice. It was 188 00:11:55.350 --> 00:11:59.026 beautiful. But yeah, my 189 00:11:59.048 --> 00:12:02.450 first trip was straight 9 hours on a plane. 190 00:12:02.870 --> 00:12:06.420 Wow. So this is no, kind of like, 191 00:12:07.510 --> 00:12:10.374 this is going to be okay. I've done it before. This is like, literally pack 192 00:12:10.412 --> 00:12:12.520 your bag, get on the plane, see what happens. 193 00:12:14.650 --> 00:12:18.070 There's this magnet that just like pulling you in 194 00:12:18.140 --> 00:12:21.626 and you're not resistant, you're just following it. 195 00:12:21.808 --> 00:12:25.514 Follow that. So you weren't going with any plan as such other than to 196 00:12:25.552 --> 00:12:29.210 land and see what happen? Oh, yeah. Well, I was 197 00:12:29.280 --> 00:12:32.954 thinking, know, if I do it through the programme, I'll at least have 198 00:12:32.992 --> 00:12:36.430 a job and I'll have a place to stay. So I'm not 199 00:12:36.500 --> 00:12:40.346 completely lost because still being in Ukraine, you're 200 00:12:40.378 --> 00:12:43.840 in the bubble and you are a kid. 201 00:12:44.530 --> 00:12:47.774 You're still a kid. You don't have much 202 00:12:47.812 --> 00:12:51.618 experience being abroad or dealing with, I don't 203 00:12:51.624 --> 00:12:55.230 know, paying the bills and finding places to stay or finding a job 204 00:12:55.400 --> 00:12:58.934 in a different country. So I was a little 205 00:12:58.972 --> 00:13:02.040 secure about that. But I wanted to experience, 206 00:13:03.290 --> 00:13:06.280 how is it here? Who are those people? 207 00:13:06.970 --> 00:13:09.740 What do we eat? What do we say? What do we watch? 208 00:13:10.590 --> 00:13:14.426 So that was my first touch with the 209 00:13:14.448 --> 00:13:18.026 culture. And I met a 210 00:13:18.048 --> 00:13:21.678 family by the pool. I worked as a lifeguard, I met a 211 00:13:21.684 --> 00:13:25.520 family by the pool. I met a cat first. I met their cat 212 00:13:25.890 --> 00:13:29.726 and she was three collar cat, just like I 213 00:13:29.748 --> 00:13:33.534 did have at home. And then this 214 00:13:33.572 --> 00:13:37.266 woman appears in front of me and she's like, I really hope she will not 215 00:13:37.288 --> 00:13:41.006 bother you. This is Ginger. She will come to the pool 216 00:13:41.198 --> 00:13:44.100 very often, will live right there. And she was the first customer, 217 00:13:45.210 --> 00:13:48.950 person that I met. And 218 00:13:49.020 --> 00:13:52.834 how many years later, seven years later, that lady 219 00:13:52.882 --> 00:13:56.354 walked me down the aisle because my mom couldn't make it to the wedding 220 00:13:56.402 --> 00:13:59.080 here. And Diane. Yeah, 221 00:14:01.150 --> 00:14:04.730 we are all connected now, we're all big family, but 222 00:14:04.800 --> 00:14:08.330 that's how it all began. What amazing story. What an amazing 223 00:14:08.400 --> 00:14:11.260 story. So you would have been in Ukraine as 224 00:14:12.430 --> 00:14:16.126 a young person at the time of the revolution and the time, all 225 00:14:16.148 --> 00:14:19.358 the trouble there because as I think I mentioned you earlier, I was in 226 00:14:19.444 --> 00:14:22.846 Kiev last year, I think it was last year. And 227 00:14:23.028 --> 00:14:26.834 just hearing the stories and seeing what had gone on less 228 00:14:26.872 --> 00:14:30.594 than ten years ago, I mean, seven or eight years ago. So you're 25 now, 229 00:14:30.632 --> 00:14:33.906 you would have been 1718 at the time, would you? 230 00:14:34.008 --> 00:14:37.686 Yes. Same year as I came back from the States. I think it 231 00:14:37.708 --> 00:14:40.902 started and I might be wrong, but November somewhere close 232 00:14:40.956 --> 00:14:44.486 to winter. Yeah. First of all, 233 00:14:44.588 --> 00:14:48.266 it's amazing that you visited Ukraine. I hope you 234 00:14:48.288 --> 00:14:51.882 liked Kiev. I haven't been to Uk yet, 235 00:14:51.936 --> 00:14:55.658 but that's one of the dreams of mine. Definitely going to 236 00:14:55.664 --> 00:14:59.066 visit you. Maybe we'll grab coffee somewhere. I'd love 237 00:14:59.088 --> 00:15:01.920 to hope the pandemic is over by then. 238 00:15:03.650 --> 00:15:06.160 Yes. Revolution started so 239 00:15:06.930 --> 00:15:10.702 sudden, I'd say, but during 240 00:15:10.756 --> 00:15:14.100 that time we were attending university and 241 00:15:14.550 --> 00:15:18.242 the independent square where everything would take 242 00:15:18.296 --> 00:15:21.810 action. It was right above the subway that 243 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:23.060 we would go 244 00:15:25.430 --> 00:15:29.106 to study and a lot of the times they would just 245 00:15:29.128 --> 00:15:32.886 close the subway because there is a chance that there is a bomb or 246 00:15:32.908 --> 00:15:36.390 something. So we would have to go around and find 247 00:15:36.540 --> 00:15:40.234 another way to get home. But it was 248 00:15:40.272 --> 00:15:42.300 scary for sure. 249 00:15:43.710 --> 00:15:47.446 People were on their feet, people were driven 250 00:15:47.478 --> 00:15:51.214 by the force because it is 251 00:15:51.252 --> 00:15:54.958 hard to just make it 252 00:15:54.964 --> 00:15:58.800 through the life in poverty, in 253 00:15:59.730 --> 00:16:02.320 being suppressed and just 254 00:16:03.670 --> 00:16:07.202 when people have that drive even if 255 00:16:07.256 --> 00:16:10.546 they don't know completely what they're doing but they 256 00:16:10.568 --> 00:16:14.382 just know stand up on their feet and they're protesting 257 00:16:14.446 --> 00:16:17.800 because it's their lives and they want to change. 258 00:16:20.090 --> 00:16:23.794 That's when it happens. It doesn't happen often. You see that there's 259 00:16:23.842 --> 00:16:27.574 not much changed in Ukraine and people are still 260 00:16:27.612 --> 00:16:31.400 protesting but it's not as big because a lot of us just 261 00:16:31.770 --> 00:16:35.466 give up and be know I can make it through the day so 262 00:16:35.488 --> 00:16:37.878 I'll make it through the week. I can make it through the week and I'll 263 00:16:37.894 --> 00:16:41.502 make it through a year. It's fine. That completely does not 264 00:16:41.636 --> 00:16:44.880 touch me. I'll be just 265 00:16:47.890 --> 00:16:51.738 was a, it was a big thing and Crimea 266 00:16:51.914 --> 00:16:55.700 was separated from very, very beautiful place. 267 00:16:56.070 --> 00:16:59.780 Very beautiful place. I've been there also by myself, 268 00:17:00.710 --> 00:17:04.402 travelled. Amazing, beautiful 269 00:17:04.536 --> 00:17:08.118 place. People just 270 00:17:08.204 --> 00:17:10.360 stopped going there as much as often. 271 00:17:12.410 --> 00:17:15.602 Now everybody's going to Odessa. Odessa is overwhelmed 272 00:17:15.746 --> 00:17:18.700 by so many. 273 00:17:19.390 --> 00:17:23.066 You know, whatever happen, happens. It's not always 274 00:17:23.168 --> 00:17:26.794 in our power to change, but whatever we can, we 275 00:17:26.832 --> 00:17:30.154 can. So my limited experience of 276 00:17:30.192 --> 00:17:33.600 Ukraine for my week long visit there. 277 00:17:34.450 --> 00:17:37.934 You've got the East Ukraine and West Ukraine, where the 278 00:17:37.972 --> 00:17:41.742 eastern side is more russian speaking, the western side is less 279 00:17:41.796 --> 00:17:45.466 russian speaking. And there's a kind of like an east west divide within Ukraine 280 00:17:45.498 --> 00:17:49.280 itself, isn't? Is there not? 281 00:17:49.670 --> 00:17:53.454 I was sort of in the capital, right? I was a small town, right, besides 282 00:17:53.502 --> 00:17:57.066 Kiev. So my family was a russian 283 00:17:57.118 --> 00:18:00.886 speaking family. I speak fluently Russian and 284 00:18:00.908 --> 00:18:04.598 fluently Ukrainian, and I don't like to mix them together as 285 00:18:04.764 --> 00:18:08.266 a lot of people do, and creating their own 286 00:18:08.288 --> 00:18:11.962 language, which is if you're not from Ukraine or you're learning 287 00:18:12.016 --> 00:18:15.820 Ukrainian or Russian, you will not get. So 288 00:18:19.470 --> 00:18:23.040 there is two parts of Ukraine, as you said. That's correct. But 289 00:18:24.290 --> 00:18:26.560 personally I did not feel 290 00:18:27.650 --> 00:18:31.274 that the difference. Sort of like if you're in West 291 00:18:31.322 --> 00:18:35.162 Ukraine, yes, everybody's speaking Ukrainian, which is. It is Ukraine, 292 00:18:35.226 --> 00:18:38.786 so it is your language, you know what I mean? And 293 00:18:38.888 --> 00:18:42.686 if you are in the east of Ukraine, everybody's speaking Russian, 294 00:18:42.718 --> 00:18:46.494 which I do speak Russian. We all speak Russian because Soviet Union 295 00:18:46.542 --> 00:18:50.374 broke up not so long ago. So our parents were still born there and 296 00:18:50.412 --> 00:18:54.134 obviously they spoke Russian, so they sort of like 297 00:18:54.172 --> 00:18:57.846 took the position, okay, I know Russian. I'll learn Ukrainian, I'll 298 00:18:57.878 --> 00:19:01.420 speak both. But this is the country and I'll respect that. 299 00:19:03.310 --> 00:19:07.066 So I'm sure there are people, as everywhere, probably in every country, 300 00:19:07.168 --> 00:19:10.830 where the point of view is 301 00:19:10.900 --> 00:19:14.654 completely different, and they will stand by it without the exception of one 302 00:19:14.692 --> 00:19:16.240 another, for sure. 303 00:19:18.210 --> 00:19:21.520 My friends and my family wasn't one of those people, 304 00:19:22.630 --> 00:19:25.954 thank God. So I cannot speak from the experience of the 305 00:19:25.992 --> 00:19:29.634 protesting side. But yes, it is 306 00:19:29.672 --> 00:19:33.220 there and it's part of the nation for sure. 307 00:19:34.470 --> 00:19:38.030 I was fortunate enough to go to Poland 308 00:19:38.190 --> 00:19:41.894 in Gdansk probably about 15 years 309 00:19:41.932 --> 00:19:45.526 ago, and I had the immense privilege to meet 310 00:19:45.548 --> 00:19:49.270 Lekvaenza, who is often 311 00:19:49.340 --> 00:19:52.778 credited for being maybe the start of the end 312 00:19:52.944 --> 00:19:56.634 of communism in some parts of Europe and instrumental in 313 00:19:56.672 --> 00:19:59.850 bringing down the Berlin wall and starting that movement 314 00:20:00.190 --> 00:20:03.802 and such an iconic figure. But to hear the stories 315 00:20:03.866 --> 00:20:07.566 of people who are my friends in Poland, because I went 316 00:20:07.588 --> 00:20:10.894 there with some friends who lived there, they were actually part of that 317 00:20:10.932 --> 00:20:14.450 solidarity movement. They were imprisoned by the police, 318 00:20:14.950 --> 00:20:18.366 they were kept in solitary confinement, 319 00:20:18.478 --> 00:20:22.242 beaten, and people didn't know where they were. That 320 00:20:22.296 --> 00:20:26.134 whole revolution experience, talking to my polish friends at the time was 321 00:20:26.172 --> 00:20:29.894 very powerful. But then to come to Kiev and hear the 322 00:20:29.932 --> 00:20:33.206 stories of Independent Square with snipers on the roof, 323 00:20:33.388 --> 00:20:36.520 learning about the people who are shot down 324 00:20:37.210 --> 00:20:40.959 just in a crowd, these were just ordinary people out for the day, shopping or 325 00:20:40.959 --> 00:20:44.714 whatever they're doing in a country that 326 00:20:44.752 --> 00:20:47.290 I felt was so typically 327 00:20:47.870 --> 00:20:51.200 european. When I visited Kiev, it seemed very 328 00:20:51.890 --> 00:20:55.710 western and normal to me, whatever 329 00:20:55.780 --> 00:20:59.546 normal may mean. So it felt really strange to be somewhere where there'd 330 00:20:59.578 --> 00:21:03.102 been so much trouble and violence less than five or six years ago. 331 00:21:03.156 --> 00:21:06.946 And that really was powerful. To read the stories and see the 332 00:21:06.968 --> 00:21:10.340 candles and see the photographs of those people who died that day 333 00:21:10.870 --> 00:21:14.660 and see the legacy of the monuments in Independence Square, 334 00:21:15.510 --> 00:21:18.950 all the pictures of what was going on at those times, 335 00:21:19.100 --> 00:21:22.838 was immensely powerful. And I defy anyone to go there 336 00:21:22.844 --> 00:21:26.370 and not feel the emotional connection with the stories. 337 00:21:26.450 --> 00:21:30.102 And it would take a very hard person 338 00:21:30.156 --> 00:21:33.786 not to feel a tear or feel some sadness for what went 339 00:21:33.808 --> 00:21:37.626 on. And it reminds us of that we live in this 340 00:21:37.648 --> 00:21:41.498 world where that still happens. It's still happening now in many countries 341 00:21:41.594 --> 00:21:45.120 in the world. And it's not just. 342 00:21:46.370 --> 00:21:50.190 Even some of the more westernised countries have the same trouble. We have troubles 343 00:21:50.770 --> 00:21:54.082 in riots in America. There's still the black lives Matter, 344 00:21:54.136 --> 00:21:57.394 and still people are fighting oppression, aren't they all over 345 00:21:57.432 --> 00:22:01.282 the. Of the. 346 00:22:01.416 --> 00:22:05.154 One of the stories that we are trying to share, me and my husband, to 347 00:22:05.192 --> 00:22:08.470 people even here, and to our friends and to our families, 348 00:22:09.530 --> 00:22:13.190 because as I moved to New York and a year 349 00:22:13.260 --> 00:22:17.046 after, when I moved to New York and 350 00:22:17.068 --> 00:22:20.874 people were asking, know, you're gay, right? 351 00:22:20.912 --> 00:22:24.140 I'm like, yeah. 352 00:22:24.670 --> 00:22:28.490 And it was so hard for me to overcome years and years 353 00:22:28.560 --> 00:22:31.840 of shame and suppression that 354 00:22:32.530 --> 00:22:36.286 I think I would blush saying that, yes, I am like 355 00:22:36.308 --> 00:22:40.046 a child, because I think I was a child in this field. I 356 00:22:40.068 --> 00:22:43.860 was coming out so slow and learning to walk. 357 00:22:44.230 --> 00:22:47.700 And a year after, I think 358 00:22:48.950 --> 00:22:52.100 so much anger was 359 00:22:52.790 --> 00:22:56.326 just bursting out of me because I couldn't live a 360 00:22:56.348 --> 00:22:59.560 life that I sort of was given, 361 00:23:01.610 --> 00:23:05.446 that I had to come 362 00:23:05.468 --> 00:23:08.860 out to my mom, to my brother, to my friends, 363 00:23:09.230 --> 00:23:12.380 and it was the hardest thing to do. 364 00:23:12.750 --> 00:23:15.740 But I felt like there was a wall 365 00:23:16.510 --> 00:23:20.206 that was getting higher and higher between me and my mom because of 366 00:23:20.228 --> 00:23:23.774 not acceptance of me not 367 00:23:23.812 --> 00:23:27.578 accepting myself, me not accepting my mom. And I felt like mom's 368 00:23:27.594 --> 00:23:30.400 not accepting me. So I had to just break it down 369 00:23:31.330 --> 00:23:34.420 and make that wall to fall. 370 00:23:36.870 --> 00:23:40.558 So the last conversation we had, I was flying to California, watching the movie 371 00:23:40.654 --> 00:23:43.540 love Simon, which is, I thought, 372 00:23:44.070 --> 00:23:47.774 cliche. All right, he's coming out. So what? The jealousy 373 00:23:47.822 --> 00:23:51.526 was talking in me, and I watched this movie. I 374 00:23:51.628 --> 00:23:54.626 was completely crying, always crying on the planes. If you see me on a plane 375 00:23:54.658 --> 00:23:58.310 and I'm watching a movie, I'm going to cry, because it's always drama. 376 00:23:59.710 --> 00:24:02.966 I flew to see my friend in California, and I had a feeling, 377 00:24:02.998 --> 00:24:06.666 like, this is the day that I'm going to talk to my 378 00:24:06.688 --> 00:24:10.426 mom. We had a conversation. I couldn't say 379 00:24:10.448 --> 00:24:14.222 a word. And then we got into a fight again. And then I'm like, 380 00:24:14.276 --> 00:24:18.010 this is it. I hung up, and I'm like, we're not going anywhere anymore. 381 00:24:18.090 --> 00:24:21.566 I can't share my life with her. And my life is 382 00:24:21.588 --> 00:24:25.290 starting booming here because I came out here and 383 00:24:25.300 --> 00:24:29.026 I'm living, and I'm being myself. And I 384 00:24:29.048 --> 00:24:32.354 texted her, I need to talk to you. She's like, all right, call me back. 385 00:24:32.472 --> 00:24:35.300 I call her back. I facetime her and 386 00:24:36.470 --> 00:24:40.040 started crying little by little. I'm like, mom, 387 00:24:43.050 --> 00:24:46.598 as I would put it, people in Ukraine say you're not a 388 00:24:46.684 --> 00:24:48.550 traditional orientation, 389 00:24:50.990 --> 00:24:54.806 which she would say right away, what is traditional? I'm 390 00:24:54.838 --> 00:24:58.554 like, okay, this is weird, hearing it from my mom. And then I'm like, mom, 391 00:24:58.592 --> 00:25:02.318 I'm gay. She's like, well, she said, you 392 00:25:02.324 --> 00:25:05.882 cannot change my life. I cannot change yours. 393 00:25:06.026 --> 00:25:09.598 And if you're happy, then she would go into a 394 00:25:09.604 --> 00:25:12.974 phase for a year, into sort of like back and forth. It's like, you know, 395 00:25:13.012 --> 00:25:16.738 you had such a nice friend, your girlfriend. That would be so nice if you 396 00:25:16.744 --> 00:25:19.970 were guys together. I'm like, mom, I'm literally getting married. 397 00:25:21.190 --> 00:25:24.706 What are we talking about right now? But then she loves my 398 00:25:24.728 --> 00:25:28.470 husband. She now never asks me, how am I? She's asking, 399 00:25:28.540 --> 00:25:30.440 how are you guys? How's everything? 400 00:25:32.410 --> 00:25:34.790 It's very sweet. Very sweet. 401 00:25:36.730 --> 00:25:40.378