Joanne Lockwood: Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood, and I am your host for the
Joanne Lockwood: Inclusion Bites podcast. In this series, I will be interviewing a number
Joanne Lockwood: of amazing people as simply having a conversation about the subject of
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Joanne Lockwood: Today is episode 26. With the title
Joanne Lockwood: "Me, My Hormones, and I", and I have the
Joanne Lockwood: absolute honor and privilege to be joined by Lauren Chiren.
Joanne Lockwood: Lauren describes herself as an executive coach and menopause
Joanne Lockwood: at work specialists. When I asked Lauren to describe her
Joanne Lockwood: superpower, she said, tenacity,
Joanne Lockwood: getting shit done, especially those things that others barely talk
Joanne Lockwood: about. Hello, Lauren. Hi, Jo.
Lauren Chiren: How are you? I'm good. Thank you. And yourself? Yeah. No.
Lauren Chiren: Really well. Really well. Thank you. It's really catch up.
Joanne Lockwood: Fantastic. So, Lauren, "Me, My Hormones, and I",
Joanne Lockwood: what's that about? Tell us How? That's,
Lauren Chiren: that's really interesting. Well, to me, it was quite interesting. I
Lauren Chiren: would like to take you back in 5th November 2014.
Lauren Chiren: I was called into meeting with my boss, which in itself was quite unusual
Lauren Chiren: because normally we caught up in between meetings on the way in and out of
Lauren Chiren: work. And I was also quite excited because it was my birthday.
Lauren Chiren: So I thought he had something in the store for me.
Lauren Chiren: However, I wasn't prepared for this surprise that he did deliver when I went into
Lauren Chiren: his office. The conversation, which I shall
Lauren Chiren: abbreviate for, you went along the lines of You're walking around those
Lauren Chiren: places if you've got the weight of the world on your shoulders. It's not exactly
Lauren Chiren: becoming of a female leader in this organization.
Lauren Chiren: And you were happier when you did that personal
Lauren Chiren: trainer thing you used to do. So perhaps you ought to have a think
Lauren Chiren: about that. Well, let me tell you whatever self esteem or
Lauren Chiren: self confidence I had before that meeting was down in
Lauren Chiren: a dark, dark place for the time of stepped out. And I knew I had
Lauren Chiren: to go and get some space between myself and the office, and I worked for
Lauren Chiren: home, from home for a little while. I took my son a
Lauren Chiren: holiday for a few days. And during that holiday, I
Lauren Chiren: laughed, joked, sang, built snow castles, and
Lauren Chiren: Iglooze, had an absolute bowl with my eight year old were in
Lauren Chiren: Iceland and slept like a log every night on the last night of the
Lauren Chiren: holiday as he fell asleep. I sat bought
Lauren Chiren: upright in my bed and burst into tears. It
Lauren Chiren: suddenly dawned on me what my boss was trying to tell me.
Lauren Chiren: He was basically saying that I was a shadow of my former self, that I
Lauren Chiren: wasn't behaving in a way that he was used to. And when
Lauren Chiren: I looked back, I realized I hadn't slept for 18 months I
Lauren Chiren: was exhausted. I was kind of wired and tired at the same time
Lauren Chiren: all day, every day. I was working longer and harder. I was
Lauren Chiren: training really hard for a marathon. I was doing a full time
Lauren Chiren: job with teams in America, India, and the UK. I
Lauren Chiren: delivered regulatory change projects for financial services, and I
Lauren Chiren: thrived in my work. But I was finding I'd be sitting in a meeting
Lauren Chiren: and you know, planning planning's fundamentals is what I do.
Lauren Chiren: Right? But at setting a meeting, I choose 15
Lauren Chiren: different sentences to describe the work plan because I couldn't get it out of my
Lauren Chiren: head. And my memory was shot. I couldn't recall names.
Lauren Chiren: I couldn't remember which meeting I had to be in and when. I had
Lauren Chiren: self esteem issues, I had palpitations, anxiety attacks, all sorts of
Lauren Chiren: things, and I just thought I had completely lost it.
Lauren Chiren: So ultimately, I left my job thinking of the early onset dementia in my early
Lauren Chiren: forties. So you can imagine my
Lauren Chiren: surprise when my GP told me I had just been through an early
Lauren Chiren: menopause. I was basically the happiest menopausal
Lauren Chiren: woman in Bristol. And literally in that moment,
Lauren Chiren: and knew what I had to do. And that was to make sure another employer
Lauren Chiren: lost their talent because of lack of
Lauren Chiren: understanding of a natural life stage Another woman
Lauren Chiren: could blindly walk into perimenopause and menopause without
Lauren Chiren: knowing what was going on. So that's kind of where it all started for
Lauren Chiren: me, Joe. Wow. That's a a
Joanne Lockwood: story. I mean, this company you're working for 6 years
Joanne Lockwood: ago wasn't a small company. There's a big multinational organization, wasn't
Joanne Lockwood: it was a large organization. And I think
Lauren Chiren: back then, organizations were not menopause savvy, we're not menopause
Lauren Chiren: aware. It wasn't something that was on the agenda. So I don't,
Lauren Chiren: you know, it's not there's nothing about size of
Lauren Chiren: organization, or I think it's just we're we're living in very
Lauren Chiren: fast moving and changing times. And it's been
Lauren Chiren: great to, you know, have on my books,
Lauren Chiren: brilliant organizations now that are looking to make significant change
Lauren Chiren: and are really waking up the fact that there are more women in work now
Lauren Chiren: than ever before. We're working longer and later in our lives and holding more senior
Lauren Chiren: roles So we really need to change the landscape that we work in.
Joanne Lockwood: So you you you're looking back here. You're not casting any blame.
Joanne Lockwood: It was just contextually at that time 6 years ago,
Joanne Lockwood: that was the way of the world. People didn't talk about it. It wasn't Wellbeing
Joanne Lockwood: treated less fairly. Just they they were quite vital in
Joanne Lockwood: their observations that you weren't the person you used to be. Absolutely. I
Lauren Chiren: think it was quite interesting that someone
Lauren Chiren: who's supposedly leading other people, bright, intelligent, etcetera,
Lauren Chiren: capable. I'd had an award, and my bonus the week before. So all the
Lauren Chiren: signals were but things were going well. So that
Lauren Chiren: conversation really was like a blow out of the blue for me, but it was
Lauren Chiren: odd you know, to to not know what you're going through and just
Lauren Chiren: to put that into context, I was on I had my son just before
Lauren Chiren: his 38 and I was on the concept of pill that meant I didn't have
Lauren Chiren: a monthly cycle. So I had no idea that my, my period had stopped.
Lauren Chiren: So I didn't know what to look out for I hadn't had the conversation with
Lauren Chiren: my mom. I didn't have anyone else around me, you know, late diarities, early forties
Lauren Chiren: going through perry or menopause. I didn't even know what perry menopause was.
Lauren Chiren: So, you know, as an employee, you've got responsibility
Lauren Chiren: to look out for yourself and be on top form doing everything that you can
Lauren Chiren: to make sure that you're fit for work. And I believe an employer has got
Lauren Chiren: a responsibility to create the culture and the environment that is entirely inclusive
Lauren Chiren: and that you can bring as much of yourself to workers as appropriate.
Lauren Chiren: So, yeah. For sure. I completely agree.
Joanne Lockwood: And and the last 6 years, the world of work has come a
Joanne Lockwood: long way in rate, doesn't it? It's we won the clock back that far,
Joanne Lockwood: then many employers hadn't even thought about this Wellbeing
Joanne Lockwood: inclusive, you know, inclusion Wellbeing, diversity wasn't really on the top of
Joanne Lockwood: most agendas. It was business as usual, get stuff
Joanne Lockwood: done, and being nice to people wasn't really on the agendas,
Joanne Lockwood: really. No. I think I've, I've been very, I mean, I want
Lauren Chiren: career number 4, and I've been very fortunate to always do work that
Lauren Chiren: I've loved. However, I never had any
Lauren Chiren: challenges with monthly cycles. I never had any challenges when I wanted to get
Lauren Chiren: pregnant, getting pregnant. I did have a tricky pregnancy because I was offered
Lauren Chiren: termination at 6 months, and that meant that there was a
Lauren Chiren: lot of stress around the continuation. And just for context,
Lauren Chiren: my son is now 14 and a big strapping lab will always go underline
Lauren Chiren: medical conditions. You know, the, the children's
Lauren Chiren: home Bristol is our safe place. And that, that, that's
Lauren Chiren: been amazing. However, even when
Lauren Chiren: I was working, if he was critically ill and I was by bedside and the
Lauren Chiren: hospital. I sold my laptop on doing my meetings. I never took my foot off
Lauren Chiren: the pedal. I didn't think because I was a mom and my son was ill.
Lauren Chiren: Now was that the business creating that culture? Was that me putting
Lauren Chiren: my the pressure myself? You know, that that's a debate that I think we could
Lauren Chiren: probably spend hours on. However,
Lauren Chiren: the, the whole menopause thing coming along just knocked me sideways.
Lauren Chiren: I nearly passed out twice in the office. It was bizarre,
Lauren Chiren: really bizarre. So you said that you you so
Joanne Lockwood: you're putting pressure on yourself to work with these hours to deliver the projects and
Joanne Lockwood: be a full time mom and all the other things that went went around
Joanne Lockwood: being you. You you said you're not you're not sure whether that was you putting
Joanne Lockwood: extra pressure or that was kind of Were you in this kind of working like
Joanne Lockwood: a man type environment where you, you know, want to feel like you were succeeding
Joanne Lockwood: and keeping up, you felt, or you had to be that person, or was it
Joanne Lockwood: a personal thing? So that was a really interesting expression, right, because
Lauren Chiren: working like a man, I've never ever had that
Lauren Chiren: phrase go through my head in my life. I started going out to work with
Lauren Chiren: my dad when I was 4. He had properties. We go around and empty the
Lauren Chiren: telephone boxes of the two p's and the pennies. He clicked the rent and
Lauren Chiren: would spend a Sunday, you know, counting out and he had another company doing
Lauren Chiren: contract cleaning. So I would help him as staff wages on a Sunday, and I've
Lauren Chiren: always just worked It's just some, it was a fun thing I did with my
Lauren Chiren: dad. I never considered it to be something masculine.
Lauren Chiren: And interestingly, the sports I've done like judo or and
Lauren Chiren: football, a lot of what I've done have always moved in a very male
Lauren Chiren: dominated environment. So I've never never questioned it. And the same with
Lauren Chiren: the jobs I've done, they've always been traditionally very male.
Lauren Chiren: And because I was very fortunate not to
Lauren Chiren: have any situations arise up until my early forties where
Lauren Chiren: I saw the difference myself. I never questioned it.
Lauren Chiren: But it was only in hindsight, which is always great, right,
Lauren Chiren: where I suddenly went, ah, it was only because of my
Lauren Chiren: hormones. That my behavior changed,
Lauren Chiren: but because I wasn't aware of it, I couldn't manage it, and I couldn't take
Lauren Chiren: control and make sure that I went on that journey with my eyes wide
Lauren Chiren: open and helped get the right help and support from the people around me to
Lauren Chiren: continue doing that. I didn't stop being bright, intelligent, or capable.
Lauren Chiren: Oh, it felt like I had, but my, I didn't lose those skills knowledge and
Lauren Chiren: experience, right? So it was just about how do you change
Lauren Chiren: that masculine environment that
Lauren Chiren: women tended to step into around about the 2nd World War when we
Lauren Chiren: started really entering the workforce on mass, How do you change
Lauren Chiren: that which we've stepped into and kind of worn the mask or
Lauren Chiren: molded ourselves into what there rather than trying to change it, which is
Lauren Chiren: what I think we're doing now. Because it's interesting also when he
Joanne Lockwood: was talking at the beginning, he said your your
Joanne Lockwood: managers said to you, not becoming of a female leader in our
Joanne Lockwood: organization. So a female leader in organization, why not
Joanne Lockwood: just a leader in our organization? So was that
Joanne Lockwood: almost the fact that your, your manager was seeing you as a
Joanne Lockwood: woman rather than just as a leader? Yeah. I'm
Lauren Chiren: I'm not sure, you know, the
Lauren Chiren: memory plays tricks with you, right? So I
Lauren Chiren: wonder if the more conscious I'm becoming of the differences of
Lauren Chiren: being a female, is my recollection
Lauren Chiren: or whether it was just the fact that there was a passing comment about being
Lauren Chiren: a leader in the organization. So I don't know if I would want to Wellbeing
Lauren Chiren: that too much. Okay. But you're now more hyper aware of
Joanne Lockwood: your own sense of self and reflected back on that
Joanne Lockwood: time. And and almost like analyzing some
Joanne Lockwood: of your behavior with hindsight and wondering whether these things came into play.
Lauren Chiren: Yeah. And I think I think specifically because I was a sole parent with a
Lauren Chiren: child with medical needs. I think that also made me
Lauren Chiren: think twice about ever considering taking time off or, you know,
Lauren Chiren: if I wanted to go and watch something at school or if my son was
Lauren Chiren: poorly, how did I make sure that I was, a,
Lauren Chiren: there for work and be there for him,
Lauren Chiren: which on reflection I'm afraid I don't agree with.
Lauren Chiren: However, that was my choice at the time, but I would too afraid or
Lauren Chiren: to I had too fixed a mask on to consider it ever
Lauren Chiren: turning around and saying, I need to take some time out because my son's ill.
Lauren Chiren: Or I need to take some time out because my son's going to be in
Lauren Chiren: an event. And it just never crossed my mind, but that was
Lauren Chiren: something I could do. I didn't know how to ask for help and support. I
Lauren Chiren: didn't want to be seen as weak because I didn't want to give anyone any
Lauren Chiren: ammunition. And these are all things in
Lauren Chiren: hindsight I realized was because I was trying to fit into an environment
Lauren Chiren: that was not necessarily set up for
Lauren Chiren: someone dealing with the things I was having to deal with You know, this is
Lauren Chiren: way before menopause came along, but ultimately, it's
Lauren Chiren: all part and parcel of the same thing. So
Joanne Lockwood: you mentioned people that understand between menopause and perimenopause.
Joanne Lockwood: I'm not sure I did. What was what's where's the difference? I mean,
Joanne Lockwood: I yeah. Tell me. Sure. Of course. So it's interesting
Lauren Chiren: because quite often women will get in touch and say, oh, I'm pretty mad I'm
Lauren Chiren: premenopausal. I can't cope. I'm going to your Perimenopause. You can't cope. So not my
Lauren Chiren: bag. Premenopausal is when you become an adolescent, your monthly
Lauren Chiren: cycle starts. And, you just, you just have
Lauren Chiren: whatever is you're a normal. Whatever that is for you is when you're
Lauren Chiren: Perimenopause. When your monthly cycle starts to
Lauren Chiren: change a little bit might become heavier lighter might be longer or
Lauren Chiren: shorter in between blades And you may start experiencing symptoms
Lauren Chiren: like brain fog, anxiety, sleeplessness, achy
Lauren Chiren: joints, so on. That's when you're entering perimenopause.
Lauren Chiren: It's when your, your Eastern levels are starting to kind of fluctuate. Your
Lauren Chiren: progesterone levels are, declining. And when
Lauren Chiren: you become menopausal, you've gone 12 months without a cycle.
Lauren Chiren: And thereafter, literally menopausal is like a 12 month anniversary of your monthly
Lauren Chiren: cycle and then your postmenopausal. Does that help? Okay.
Joanne Lockwood: Okay. So that that that that's the 12 months window, and you
Joanne Lockwood: you've no idea during that 12 months if it's
Joanne Lockwood: gonna reset in 2 months' time. So -- Correct. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: So you could be exhibiting these intermittent, periods
Joanne Lockwood: And that's where your Perimenopause, where you'll go into those last couple of
Joanne Lockwood: years of of your periods and cycle. And then
Joanne Lockwood: you say one day you wake up and go, oh, 5th
Joanne Lockwood: December, that's it. We're done. We're done. We're
Joanne Lockwood: done. We're now post intervals at Yay. So you have menopause day is
Joanne Lockwood: really was one day in your life. That's exactly right.
Lauren Chiren: Yes. But I think because we don't want to go around going
Lauren Chiren: perry to post menopause or journey, just go menopause. And that means everything
Lauren Chiren: from parried through to post. It's it's it's it's the big big
Joanne Lockwood: umbrella term that everyone kinda understands. Yep. Yeah.
Lauren Chiren: That's right. I I I seen that there are there are many
Joanne Lockwood: women going through a similar pattern where you went through where you're
Joanne Lockwood: using contraception, wrist masks, periods where you're taking them every
Joanne Lockwood: day of the month, So there are many women out there that probably not aware.
Joanne Lockwood: And also, I suppose the most contraceptive pills give you Oestrogen and
Joanne Lockwood: probably progesterone progesterone at a similar level to what
Joanne Lockwood: you're naturally assuming. So you probably don't notice them as turning off
Joanne Lockwood: there. No. If you're if you're on, certainly, certain
Lauren Chiren: types of contraception, you you're not going to know. There's just no way to know
Lauren Chiren: unless you came off the contraception. So you really go by your
Lauren Chiren: symptoms. And, if you are in your
Lauren Chiren: early to mid forties up to your mid fifties and you're starting to experiencing,
Lauren Chiren: your anxiety, brain fog, sleeplessness,
Lauren Chiren: palpitations, itchy skin, hair loss, hair growth,
Lauren Chiren: tweezers can become a girl's best friend. And all
Lauren Chiren: these kind of other low moods, night
Lauren Chiren: sweats, if you started to spread, you know, experience
Lauren Chiren: these symptoms, then that's your guide, really, especially if you're over forty
Lauren Chiren: 5, then that, that is just like going through adolescence. When you go through
Lauren Chiren: adolescence, you may experience mood
Lauren Chiren: swings, slamming doors, different
Lauren Chiren: changing sleep patterns, all sorts of different things. It's just we don't expect that in
Lauren Chiren: women of a certain stage. So -- So
Joanne Lockwood: you must assume that women have kind of got their
Joanne Lockwood: their life together, but they should be just flat, normal,
Joanne Lockwood: whereas they're almost going back to those early hormonal years where
Joanne Lockwood: they're their emotions are, yeah, going
Joanne Lockwood: up and down, but considerably, I suppose. It's one of the most common
Lauren Chiren: issues that women tell me about when I'm working with them that you, they,
Lauren Chiren: they, they've had this kind of cycle of behavior at work. They know when they're
Lauren Chiren: more analytical or creative through their monthly cycle, where they're more reflective
Lauren Chiren: or determined. And then all of a sudden,
Lauren Chiren: Perimenopause comes along, and the moods can be, you
Lauren Chiren: know, they can be quite severe. And in from one moment to the next,
Lauren Chiren: you can go from being happy as Larry to being in fits of tears for
Lauren Chiren: no apparent reason, and things will trigger you in a way that you just aren't
Lauren Chiren: used to. And then all of a sudden you could be raging at
Lauren Chiren: somebody. Now this isn't for all women clearly,
Lauren Chiren: but it is not uncommon behavior for someone going through menopause.
Joanne Lockwood: Since you mentioned one of your symptoms was memory loss as well, well, or just
Joanne Lockwood: forgetfulness or And I I've come
Joanne Lockwood: across, people in my life where that's been a factor
Joanne Lockwood: and that just assumed that it was just, as you say, on the early
Joanne Lockwood: onset dementia, a senior moment, people would call
Joanne Lockwood: it, but maybe never associating with with the fact it could have been
Joanne Lockwood: some perimenopause causing this. Mhmm. And what sort of ages with people that you've noticed
Lauren Chiren: that in the I would say late forties, fifties, yeah, kind of that
Joanne Lockwood: kind of age. Yeah. But people just talk about it and say, oh, god. I
Joanne Lockwood: just it was like, it's not a tip by tongue, but I just they just
Joanne Lockwood: couldn't get it out, or or, or you have a conversation and they say, I
Joanne Lockwood: don't understand that. And it's like, you just said that. No, I didn't.
Joanne Lockwood: So maybe it isn't Maybe it is kinda like that. Yeah. Exactly. And I had
Lauren Chiren: a classic one time, to work the arrows I was working in the type of
Lauren Chiren: position I was I had to have support with my son, so I had
Lauren Chiren: an Annie. And one night I came home, I drove back 4 to
Lauren Chiren: 5 minute journey from work to the house. Dropped my suit, my
Lauren Chiren: suitcase off, my briefcase off, said hi to my son, walked back my nanny, picked
Lauren Chiren: up my briefcase, and said, I'll see you later, and she goes, where are you
Lauren Chiren: going? As I'm going to work. Week, you've just been called pork.
Lauren Chiren: I mean, it's the weirdest thing. It's the weirdest
Lauren Chiren: thing. So so you could also manifest itself where someone's
Joanne Lockwood: maybe, an administrator and they're doing a routine
Joanne Lockwood: process. And they keep missing bits of the process, or they they just don't
Joanne Lockwood: retain some of the process and go, would you mean I thought I'd done that
Joanne Lockwood: that that could be part of that as Wellbeing exactly that.
Lauren Chiren: So people may experience those kind of small errors in their
Lauren Chiren: work, specifically if they're doing detailed work. And that's why it's so
Lauren Chiren: important for employers to become educated and for women to really understand what
Lauren Chiren: they're going through so that they can start to put their own processes in
Lauren Chiren: place so that they can have checklists so they can set timers so they can
Lauren Chiren: record meetings so they can take more frequent breaks so they can do the
Lauren Chiren: relaxation exercises. Because it's important as an employee
Lauren Chiren: that you take responsibility for yourself and definitely you can to thrive, as well as
Lauren Chiren: the employer, obviously, making
Lauren Chiren: the cultural changes, environmental changes that are needed. So
Joanne Lockwood: you weren't really self aware of what was going on, and I'm I'm guessing that
Joanne Lockwood: other people maybe listen to this and experiencing this probably aren't self
Joanne Lockwood: aware either. It's it's only when people maybe mention it to them that they
Joanne Lockwood: go, oh, maybe you're right. I suppose if you're forgetful, you don't realize you're being
Joanne Lockwood: forgetful. Not until you kind of put car keys in the fridge and the
Lauren Chiren: milk in the I don't know a washing machine or something like
Lauren Chiren: that, which as audits that might sound, is not that
Lauren Chiren: uncommon. But I think I think quite often
Lauren Chiren: people, you know, especially in the workplace, people will notice your behavior changing
Lauren Chiren: before you're conscious of it. And it's
Lauren Chiren: about learning how to identify that, how to open a sense of
Lauren Chiren: conversation with somebody, how to sign posts into the right health. Support in
Lauren Chiren: a supportive caring way without them feeling threatened.
Lauren Chiren: And I often find when I'm speaking to women,
Lauren Chiren: like, oh, I didn't know that was part of menopause because there's over 30 symptoms,
Lauren Chiren: and no two woman experiences it in the same way. So
Lauren Chiren: it's it it fascinates me and I shouldn't because I
Lauren Chiren: was there only 6 years ago, but it fascinates me that women
Lauren Chiren: don't know what menopause is. They don't know how many symptoms there are. They're
Lauren Chiren: not prepared for it, and they don't know where to get help and support.
Lauren Chiren: So yeah, I'm really grateful to you for helping me
Lauren Chiren: open up the conversation that little bit further. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: Is it My understanding is there's still a lot of
Joanne Lockwood: kind of shame and stigma around losing one's fertility
Joanne Lockwood: and did at this point in life, maybe the feeling of loss,
Joanne Lockwood: whilst someone may not ever want to have another child, but the fact they now
Joanne Lockwood: can't -- Mhmm. -- is quite a big loss, isn't it? I've had a few
Lauren Chiren: clients mention that to me, and
Lauren Chiren: we do I do a lot of work and mindset with my clients, so it's
Lauren Chiren: very much looking deeper inside to them and what that fertility means to them,
Lauren Chiren: looking at the ages and stages of life. And actually, women of
Lauren Chiren: this generation experiencing menopause are going to live as long, if not
Lauren Chiren: longer, post menopause leave than they were in their fertile years.
Lauren Chiren: And we are the 1st generation to do that. And that in
Lauren Chiren: itself, when people get their their heads around that, and they recognize that they've got
Lauren Chiren: this incredible life ahead of them. So It's like the second
Lauren Chiren: opportunity to, to create whatever you want to be and
Lauren Chiren: do and have And it's, it's very much about, you know, that
Lauren Chiren: mindset shift in recognizing your role in life also
Lauren Chiren: and, and how much you've got to give back So, yeah, there,
Lauren Chiren: there can be that sense of loss, but, it affects
Lauren Chiren: everybody differently. But there's still a lot of,
Joanne Lockwood: Social etiquette where periods,
Joanne Lockwood: cycles, sanitary products, etcetera, etcetera,
Joanne Lockwood: aren't topics for the dinner table that they're they're they're whisper
Joanne Lockwood: conversations, and it's not talked about. So is there any wonder that that
Joanne Lockwood: many women don't share their stories with West
Joanne Lockwood: Coast is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is that part of
Joanne Lockwood: the trouble that people aren't talking about it enough? I'm delighted to say that things
Lauren Chiren: are changing. Did you see the article about Scotland? And sanitary
Lauren Chiren: products? Yes. I did. I did. I thought it was fantastic. Yeah. I just hope
Lauren Chiren: that is the beginning of something that more and more countries will will do.
Lauren Chiren: So free sanitary products is is one
Lauren Chiren: amazingly positive straightforward. And more, the more clients I
Lauren Chiren: work with now, the more corporate clients that I engage with, Instead of just
Lauren Chiren: focusing on menopause, what we do is we look at the entire female life cycle.
Lauren Chiren: So everything, all the changes, fertility
Lauren Chiren: issues, miscarriage pregnancy, you
Lauren Chiren: know, we're with looking at anybody who bleeds and
Lauren Chiren: what that's going to mean for them, the impacts are going to have for them
Lauren Chiren: throughout their entire employee journey rather
Lauren Chiren: than just focusing on one specific stage because I believe that the more we can
Lauren Chiren: open the conversation at work about what's going on that you
Lauren Chiren: can't see necessarily, the more we can create
Lauren Chiren: an environment that people are, more engaged
Lauren Chiren: with, more, tolerant of and more understanding of as
Lauren Chiren: well. So it, it's, I do think it's a big
Lauren Chiren: journey, but I am seeing people being much more open now 6
Lauren Chiren: years ago. People organizations were kind of like kicking 9 to
Lauren Chiren: 12 months before they were to engage me to come in and deliver something on
Lauren Chiren: menopause awareness, whereas now I'll be It's inbound inquiries asking me to
Lauren Chiren: go and help them create their strategy around women at work. So there is a
Lauren Chiren: shift, but there's always going to businesses, and you must find this with your work
Lauren Chiren: as well. There's always companies that are, you know, the early
Lauren Chiren: adopters and those ones that will kind of lag behind a little bit more. Do
Lauren Chiren: you find that? Oh, for sure. It's
Joanne Lockwood: it turns on the size of the business, the sector, the
Joanne Lockwood: culture. Some are front runners
Joanne Lockwood: out there trying to try to their best. And there were many organizations that are
Joanne Lockwood: just playing catch up, or or it's not even on the radar. So, yeah, you're
Joanne Lockwood: right. It's, I think in a way that's It's
Joanne Lockwood: just the way the way the world. I think it was gonna have
Joanne Lockwood: outliers forward people. And
Joanne Lockwood: I think in a way, it needs it needs to find about us to set
Joanne Lockwood: the examples and to and to break the ground and and to show people what's
Joanne Lockwood: possible that other people can aspire to and catch up. So I I think whilst
Joanne Lockwood: I'm often disappointed that that all companies are focused on
Joanne Lockwood: diversity inclusion and helping their people in this way
Joanne Lockwood: is becoming the way organizations start to think, which is, which
Joanne Lockwood: is, for me, I think we are making progress. Yeah. No, I am definitely
Lauren Chiren: seeing a difference. And certainly, this time this year, especially
Lauren Chiren: given that we're recording this, a time when COVID is still
Lauren Chiren: very much in our midst. I have noticed that There
Lauren Chiren: are more organizations asking to engage early next year to look
Lauren Chiren: at what their strategy is going to be and how they're going to put
Lauren Chiren: manipause on the table on the agenda and bring it to the attention of this
Lauren Chiren: new stakeholders. So I'm really, really excited about that.
Joanne Lockwood: I I think I've I've seen that as well. So I don't know whether it
Joanne Lockwood: was COVID or black lives matter or something earlier this year
Joanne Lockwood: created this is bound waiver of of change or enlightenment.
Joanne Lockwood: And I I think you're right. But many DNI leads and DNI teams are
Joanne Lockwood: starting to pull together a program of events around
Joanne Lockwood: inclusion and identities and needs and
Joanne Lockwood: menopause is on that list is in the same way that
Joanne Lockwood: racial inclusion, trans, lgbt, all these kind of the big
Joanne Lockwood: ticket items are on the list now. And I think I spoke to someone
Joanne Lockwood: this morning, And they do they do it very similar. They want
Joanne Lockwood: to really raise their profile. We were talking specifically around LGBT, but they're
Joanne Lockwood: also doing a number of other events. And similar lines. So it's it's
Joanne Lockwood: fantastic that you're, yeah, you're already seeing that in 2021 as on on
Joanne Lockwood: the agenda. Mhmm. Mhmm. And before, March
Lauren Chiren: 20, I was doing a lot of work in the states. However,
Lauren Chiren: at the time I've saved by flying back and forth between states and the
Lauren Chiren: UK, I've been doing far more webinars and reaching out to far
Lauren Chiren: more organizations much bigger and more global organizations. And, you
Lauren Chiren: know, I've I've spoken to companies now that have got a footprint
Lauren Chiren: in Russia to Romania, Israel to Ireland, Australia to
Lauren Chiren: Australia and beyond. It's been phenomenal this year to, to
Lauren Chiren: really see that reach grow. So I think that's really
Lauren Chiren: helped. And also with the flexibility and agility and the
Lauren Chiren: working ways of working that people have had to do. It's opened
Lauren Chiren: the doors to completely new thinking about what work means and
Lauren Chiren: and ways of working going forward. So I I think we've
Lauren Chiren: touched on that a couple of times when we've spoken. Yeah. Yeah. So because you've
Joanne Lockwood: you've also got a a very active Facebook group, probably where you
Joanne Lockwood: support network for women going through Perimenopause, menopause.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. And you've had some guest speakers, and I've watched some of the, the
Joanne Lockwood: webinars you've done, which have been really, really enlightening and, yeah,
Joanne Lockwood: and surprising that lack of
Joanne Lockwood: informations out there without diving and, you know, if I hadn't have
Joanne Lockwood: met you, hadn't been on your webinars or Wellbeing a Facebook group, I would never
Joanne Lockwood: know how for this. Oh, wow. I didn't know you could see some of
Lauren Chiren: them. You invited me into the group because --
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I did. I did. And I I looked through them because whilst
Joanne Lockwood: it doesn't affect me directly hormones do. So I have a so if
Joanne Lockwood: I stop taking hormones, I will go probably through a similar sort
Joanne Lockwood: of cold turkey experience. So I'm very
Joanne Lockwood: hyper aware of of of what homeowners have done to me over my over the
Joanne Lockwood: last 5 years. And the changes that I've experienced as
Joanne Lockwood: a result, not just physically, but mentally, and the mental changes have
Joanne Lockwood: been well, I would put it most welcome because they
Joanne Lockwood: have introduced a a calmness and a and a way of thinking that
Joanne Lockwood: I never had before. So I can imagine if I ended up in a
Joanne Lockwood: situation where my hormone levels fluctuated wildly
Joanne Lockwood: to have have that that cycle between complete
Joanne Lockwood: complete you for it, calmness, and not would be,
Joanne Lockwood: I said, I'm not sure I could imagine how that would Yeah. And I think,
Lauren Chiren: some delighted that you've seen the webinars, and you're right about that
Lauren Chiren: hormonal fluctuation. The other thing that women maybe
Lauren Chiren: don't recognize in themselves is that they have testosterone.
Lauren Chiren: So it's another, it's the, it's like the, the 3rd
Lauren Chiren: hormone that can drop and diminish. And that's quite often women
Lauren Chiren: will comment about loss of libido, loss of confidence loss of
Lauren Chiren: self esteem, and that can all be tied into a drop in
Lauren Chiren: testosterone because whilst we have much lower levels and then we still
Lauren Chiren: have testosterone, it's really important hormone for us. So it's
Lauren Chiren: something that's not licensed for use in the UK. However, it can be prescribed.
Lauren Chiren: So it's something for women to be aware of if they are talking to their
Lauren Chiren: doctor about hormone replacement therapy. But on the just going back to
Lauren Chiren: the comment you made about the webinars, I have in my team, I have
Lauren Chiren: a GPU who specializes in women's health. I
Lauren Chiren: have, an amazing guy who I've known for
Lauren Chiren: 20 years who specializes in CV confidence and
Lauren Chiren: coaching sorry, CV career and
Lauren Chiren: confidence coaching because quite often going through menopause is when women
Lauren Chiren: really start thinking about a change in their career. A bit of hypnotherapist,
Lauren Chiren: especially in stress anxiety because that's way up on people's lists with
Lauren Chiren: menopause. And I've got a bunch of, fitness professionals,
Lauren Chiren: nutritional professionals, and myself obviously as the executive
Lauren Chiren: coach. And it just means that people have got a one stop shop for all
Lauren Chiren: the types of support that they might need throughout menopause.
Lauren Chiren: And it's that's what's that's what's come out of working with women and working
Lauren Chiren: with organizations over the last 6, 7 years just
Lauren Chiren: to make sure that people have got the right support, the right access, the right
Lauren Chiren: information. And the, the the webinars that
Lauren Chiren: you mentioned, I do every few weeks, and they're in free,
Lauren Chiren: they're in the group. Anyone, you know, is welcome to assess them because
Lauren Chiren: for me, it's all about increasing people's awareness. If we don't share the
Lauren Chiren: information and people live in ignorance, then you know, that,
Lauren Chiren: that, that's not gonna move us forward. So I just, that's just me doing my
Lauren Chiren: bit, really. Are those, I mean, let's be clear to anyone's listening. These
Joanne Lockwood: aren't just for women concerned about the menopause
Joanne Lockwood: themselves, whether they they go to repair menopause or post menopausal, this could be
Joanne Lockwood: for women younger to try and identify educate himself a later
Joanne Lockwood: life, but also for men who want to find out how they could support women
Joanne Lockwood: best in the workplace. And and it's not a a taboo subject. We
Joanne Lockwood: want men to listen to these to understand how they can help better, don't
Joanne Lockwood: we? Whether as a husband as a husband, as a as a partner
Joanne Lockwood: as a as a as a son or as a as a as a brother
Joanne Lockwood: or sister, sorry, brother or father. So
Joanne Lockwood: it's important that men educate themselves, and it's not seen as a a
Joanne Lockwood: woman's only thing to talk about. It is is a societal
Joanne Lockwood: challenge that we all need to embrace as is, and I think a really great
Lauren Chiren: way to bring that to life is an old friend of mine who he
Lauren Chiren: won't appreciate being called an old friend, but a long term friend of
Lauren Chiren: mine who lives overseas. When I got pregnant with my son, he moved overseas,
Lauren Chiren: got married, built a house, living the life of Riley with
Lauren Chiren: his, his new wife, and They both had ideal jobs. They had
Lauren Chiren: their swimming pool in the back garden. And, you know, for 10 years, I just
Lauren Chiren: got great reports of how wonderful everything was. And
Lauren Chiren: 3, maybe 4 years ago, he popped back over. He was
Lauren Chiren: back over in the UK, spread his mum's ashes, and he told me it was
Lauren Chiren: getting divorced. And I was really, really upset for him
Lauren Chiren: because he was leading such an incredible life. Anyway, he
Lauren Chiren: had to go back home to sort things out, put house in the market, put
Lauren Chiren: notice in at work, his wife was off long term sick. And I
Lauren Chiren: was helping him sort out, you know, a new network back over in Bristol in
Lauren Chiren: the UK, find a house to live in. So he put an offer in a
Lauren Chiren: house. He'd started going for job, interviews.
Lauren Chiren: And as I was talking to him one day, he was
Lauren Chiren: just talking in the most beautiful way about his wife.
Lauren Chiren: And I turned around and I said, look, forgive me, but confused.com
Lauren Chiren: over here. You're talking about your wife as if she's your best friend,
Lauren Chiren: as if she's, you really love her. And he goes, well, I do, and she
Lauren Chiren: is. I was like, I really don't understand why you're coming
Lauren Chiren: back to the UK. And he turned around and he said to me, we haven't
Lauren Chiren: been intimate for 4 years. I've tried everything,
Lauren Chiren: and I just can't live like that. I don't want to cheat. But I can't
Lauren Chiren: look at this either. And we had to cut a very long story short.
Lauren Chiren: We had some chats. I realized that his wife was
Lauren Chiren: parimenopausal and really struggling. She had really severe symptoms like
Lauren Chiren: I had, but perhaps even more so. And with a little bit of
Lauren Chiren: coaching, a little bit of counseling, and some interventions, some medical intervention
Lauren Chiren: as well, they stayed together.
Lauren Chiren: However, There were 2 employers in their
Lauren Chiren: home country that had one employee that had left work,
Lauren Chiren: male, one that was a long term sick female, an employer over in
Lauren Chiren: the UK that thought they had a new male employee coming over
Lauren Chiren: that wasn't, solicitors for the house sealant, the house selling, and the
Lauren Chiren: house buying on both sides, solicitors for the divorce,
Lauren Chiren: all because a couple were not menopause savvy and didn't
Lauren Chiren: understand how to communicate with each other and where to go and get help and
Lauren Chiren: support. So it's not a women's only issue. This
Lauren Chiren: affects employers, even when they don't see that the person being
Lauren Chiren: impacted is being directly impacted by menopause. So for
Lauren Chiren: me, that story is a really good one to demonstrate how far reaching menopause
Lauren Chiren: is and the effects are because the more we recognize it, the more we understand
Lauren Chiren: it, can put the right help in support in place, and just so get over
Lauren Chiren: there and I just --
Joanne Lockwood: So so you're telling me earlier that you you went to Iceland.
Joanne Lockwood: Oh, I I I mean, that's amazing. I was in Iceland
Joanne Lockwood: in 9899, so that was what 20 years
Joanne Lockwood: ago. And I loved it over there. We we did
Joanne Lockwood: the, the locals tour because we actually were there as
Joanne Lockwood: part of a club, and we we were being hosted by some
Joanne Lockwood: Icelanders, and we we enjoyed a lot of their their
Joanne Lockwood: their spirit. So it wasn't like a tourist. You know, we we we won't be
Joanne Lockwood: on a bus with it. We didn't just see the the, yeah, the big ticket
Joanne Lockwood: items, the glasses, and the and the geyser things. We actually sort of live with
Joanne Lockwood: them, and we were experiencing some of their culture, which is incredible,
Joanne Lockwood: but, no, I loved it. It's a it's a really great place, and I I
Joanne Lockwood: really wanna go back there. But one thing that sticks my one
Joanne Lockwood: 66 in my mind was they hired this fish controller.
Joanne Lockwood: And in the middle of the, you know, this was in May. So it's kinda
Joanne Lockwood: still pretty dark and pretty cold and horrible out there. And they they said the
Joanne Lockwood: same as just enjoying it, and it literally threw the net over the back, trawed
Joanne Lockwood: up I think stuff off the bottom, and there was
Joanne Lockwood: irchins. There was, clamps and some of this. And they were literally just
Joanne Lockwood: opening up these irchins, and we were eating them off the knife. Wow. And
Joanne Lockwood: scallops and the clowns things were just literally easing them off off the knife as
Joanne Lockwood: they were bringing them up from the from the floor. And then we had this
Joanne Lockwood: massive buffet. One of the delicacies on there was puffing. I don't know
Joanne Lockwood: how many puffins gave up their life for this buffet, but there was there was,
Joanne Lockwood: like, trays and trays of puffing and Yeah. It was
Joanne Lockwood: a incredible experience, and and the way they prepare Lam,
Joanne Lockwood: it's more like we were prepared to take. It was that the way the server
Joanne Lockwood: is actually beautiful. So yeah, I've got some really, really fond
Joanne Lockwood: memories, but, yeah, I'm afraid I, I did consume a fair few puffing that
Joanne Lockwood: week. Well, my my biggest
Lauren Chiren: learning was don't go to Iceland on Christmas
Lauren Chiren: because everything is shut. Christmas day and boxing day,
Lauren Chiren: everything, even the restaurants and the hotels are shut. So it's a
Lauren Chiren: very interesting time, but we were the ultimate tourists and had
Lauren Chiren: completely the opposite experience, but it was just the most stunning,
Lauren Chiren: beautiful, They're the most welcoming gorgeous people I think
Lauren Chiren: have ever met. My son can't wait to go back. So one day when when
Lauren Chiren: we can, we will go back. But it's beautiful, beautiful location.
Lauren Chiren: It's simply stunning. We we went skid doing on the
Joanne Lockwood: glaciers, and that was Absolutely. I mean, I've only
Joanne Lockwood: ever could do once. I never I never ridden a motor motorcycle before and just
Joanne Lockwood: being let loose on this thing and just running around the asses and and
Joanne Lockwood: they're being shouted at because you'll be aware of these these
Joanne Lockwood: crevices and cracks and fault in the in the snow in case you just went
Joanne Lockwood: straight through them. So yeah, to keep on this very, very narrow,
Joanne Lockwood: if single file path, because every time the the leader look the other
Joanne Lockwood: way, everyone's 5 impressed race that you told them about.
Joanne Lockwood: It's an incredible, incredible, and I remember getting off this could
Joanne Lockwood: do on the top of this class here, and it was literally
Joanne Lockwood: white. Below the horizon and
Joanne Lockwood: blue. And it was a pretty gorgeous blue, and not a
Joanne Lockwood: cloud, not anything just white and blue. And I I took one step off
Joanne Lockwood: this could do, and I went up up to my thighs in snow where the
Joanne Lockwood: snow is so unpacked and it's and I I'm just
Joanne Lockwood: literally I I was I went to my thighs and thought, how do I count
Joanne Lockwood: from here? One of my friends who was really, really kinda
Joanne Lockwood: lightweight. He got office could do, and he was walking on the
Joanne Lockwood: snow. It's like incredible, the difference between someone who was a little bit weightier than
Joanne Lockwood: sort of it was really light. It was really for the welcome. But, yeah, such
Joanne Lockwood: a happy memories of, sliding sliding down
Joanne Lockwood: is on on inner tubes. You know, I mean, big doughnut inner tube things like
Joanne Lockwood: that. Yeah. It's a it's a fantastic place, isn't it?
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. It was just a ticket for me to wake up and smell the roses.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. After matches because, yeah, it's bit of a digital detox, I
Joanne Lockwood: thought, when you were over there -- Oh, it was just
Lauren Chiren: the antidote to what I was going through. And it was just that moment of
Lauren Chiren: realization when I set up in bed that night and went, Oh,
Lauren Chiren: yeah. Oh, yeah. That was what he was trying to tell
Lauren Chiren: me. It was like a real wake up goal. It comes it comes on
Joanne Lockwood: slowly, doesn't it? I mean, when we talked about this, you you don't know it's
Joanne Lockwood: happening, but it's so gradual, I guess, where over the course of
Joanne Lockwood: many, many years, the decline is probably happening, isn't it? So you don't realize. I
Lauren Chiren: think it's different for everybody. And 25% of women
Lauren Chiren: will have quite severe symptoms if they're not prepared for it and don't know where
Lauren Chiren: to get help and support like I did. And 55% will have mild to
Lauren Chiren: moderate that will need some sort of intervention, even if it's just lifestyle
Lauren Chiren: changes. And 20% of women will seal through. However,
Lauren Chiren: if you have, nephrectomy hysterectomy, if you have
Lauren Chiren: cancer, cancer treatments, certainly in the pelvic region
Lauren Chiren: with chemotherapy, then you would go into an instant medical or surgical
Lauren Chiren: menopause as Wellbeing a lot of women describe that as being hit like a
Lauren Chiren: truck. So for them, obviously that happens at whatever age their
Lauren Chiren: treatments or surgery happens, and that can be a lot younger.
Lauren Chiren: Menopause itself, actually. I mean, I was under 40 when I went through it,
Lauren Chiren: and the youngest recorded case was 12. So
Lauren Chiren: it's, you know, you need to be quite open minded and, and, and
Lauren Chiren: just we need, thankfully, sorry, excuse me,
Lauren Chiren: Minopost is now on the education curriculum. So at
Lauren Chiren: least it'll start to get talked about at school. And that's where it belongs
Lauren Chiren: because we need to know about it from the go so we can plan for
Lauren Chiren: it and recognize it. So is it a
Joanne Lockwood: bit that you have to have HRT? Is that Is that,
Joanne Lockwood: is that a myth you have to have it, or or is it not appropriate
Joanne Lockwood: for everybody? So HRT, so I'm speaking as a layperson,
Lauren Chiren: albeit very well educated to the layperson, and I'm doing yet another
Lauren Chiren: course in HRT at the moment. So HRT, if you're
Lauren Chiren: under the nice guidelines are, if you're under 45, you should be on
Lauren Chiren: HRT, at least until you're 51 because your body's not
Lauren Chiren: intended not to have the Eastern in it. Eastern's got really
Lauren Chiren: strong preventative bone and heart health
Lauren Chiren: implications. And that's why men and women will take it even if they don't have
Lauren Chiren: a menopausal symptoms, they will take it throughout their entire life.
Lauren Chiren: However, because HRT got such a bad rep with,
Lauren Chiren: some now so there was a study
Lauren Chiren: 18 years ago where there were links between DVT, breast
Lauren Chiren: cancer, and HRT, And as they've been, that
Lauren Chiren: study has been discredited, but there have been other ones that have popped their heads
Lauren Chiren: up, but they haven't been based on the type of
Lauren Chiren: HRT that's available now. They haven't been based on,
Lauren Chiren: cohorts where they are the ideal cohorts. I mean, a lot
Lauren Chiren: of women who've been studied who were over 60
Lauren Chiren: or over, you know, severely overweight obese, and they would
Lauren Chiren: be normally contraindicated for HRT in the first place. So
Lauren Chiren: that's not where you would start off when you were doing a clean study. So,
Lauren Chiren: there's a big swath of GPs now beginning to get educated in
Lauren Chiren: HRT Wellbeing what it's for, why it's important. And
Lauren Chiren: as I said earlier, because we're living longer and later into life, if we
Lauren Chiren: want to be really active cognitive cognitively and
Lauren Chiren: physically active, and we want our heart rate, or to be, I
Lauren Chiren: think, functioning normally, then HRT is definitely a consideration, but
Lauren Chiren: there's, you know, it's it's personal choice. And it
Lauren Chiren: will be based on your own personal choice and personal medical history
Lauren Chiren: as Wellbeing you say it seems like osteoporosis, bone cancer,
Joanne Lockwood: calcium, and there's something on things. Say estrogen or
Joanne Lockwood: lack of estrogen is one of the causes or the start of osteoporosis setting
Joanne Lockwood: in, isn't it, where people bone density recruit increase of,
Joanne Lockwood: breakages or brittle bones, etcetera, etcetera. So, yeah, but
Joanne Lockwood: I'd I'd heard around the, all about this, DVT blood clots,
Joanne Lockwood: the worry around certainly when it's all about trans health care, the risks of of,
Joanne Lockwood: Oestrogen. And also the the fact that if you take in tablet form,
Joanne Lockwood: the liver, it gets metabolized in the liver and cause liver problems, which is why
Joanne Lockwood: they often put patches or creams or topical.
Joanne Lockwood: See, I I'm quite reserved on all these. I would I would hope
Lauren Chiren: so. Yeah. I'm an education myself. So,
Joanne Lockwood: yeah. Yeah. I mean, is people don't even realize that HRT
Lauren Chiren: comes in, you know, an
Lauren Chiren: IUD comes in sprays, pumps, gels, patches, tablets,
Lauren Chiren: and people don't know. You can have separate prescriptions or component procedures. Yep.
Lauren Chiren: We name it. So, and then the other thing
Lauren Chiren: Well, yes, there's there there's all sorts, that's really important to
Lauren Chiren: before you go to GP, because our GPS generally are not educated on HRT,
Lauren Chiren: They're generally not educated on menopause from if they have half an hour,
Lauren Chiren: it's a 5 hours worth of training and they're 10 years of training, they're doing
Lauren Chiren: well. And they see shown an interest in it So it's really important to find
Lauren Chiren: someone who's knowledgeable, but still make sure you keep a list of
Lauren Chiren: your symptoms and make sure that you are read up on HRT through the nice
Lauren Chiren: guidelines and clear on what conversation you want to have for
Lauren Chiren: your GP and be prepared to have 2 or 3 conversations with them before you
Lauren Chiren: reach a conclusion as well. Just be patient and
Lauren Chiren: be prepared to educate your GPS to help you.
Lauren Chiren: So it's important. Yeah. I certainly found that you need to be a kind of
Joanne Lockwood: a, an educated base know what you're trying to achieve. I'm
Joanne Lockwood: not saying we want to be a Google hypochondric or or Google expert,
Joanne Lockwood: but certainly do the research yourself, you know, join forums such as
Joanne Lockwood: yours, go into Facebook groups, go into other internet resources,
Joanne Lockwood: and learn about other people's lived experience. And then go to your
Joanne Lockwood: GP knowing a bit more about you than they do
Joanne Lockwood: and help help them to I mean, I certainly found that if I go to
Joanne Lockwood: my GP, educated, I'll get a far better outcome. Yeah.
Lauren Chiren: And I think specifically with the menopause, excuse expression,
Lauren Chiren: but a lot of the online forum Gora can be very bitch and moan.
Lauren Chiren: And I'm afraid I don't tolerate in mind in the menopause social hangout.
Lauren Chiren: We are we're What are you experiencing? What
Lauren Chiren: are your options? What are the positives? How can we move forward? And
Lauren Chiren: as I've said, you know, you you've you've experienced some of the, the quality of
Lauren Chiren: the people I've got in there to help support everybody who are educated and
Lauren Chiren: do know their topic really, really Wellbeing. It's
Lauren Chiren: important to stick. I mean, Doctor. Google can be phenomenally dangerous
Lauren Chiren: and very worrying. So I highly recommend people
Lauren Chiren: stick to trusted resources like the nice guidelines and the
Lauren Chiren: bms.org.uk, which are the kind of go
Lauren Chiren: to sites for people who want to be well researched,
Lauren Chiren: well read, and and really get some info on the nhs.co.ukaysight as
Joanne Lockwood: well as now. I've I've -- Which one was that? On the NHS website
Joanne Lockwood: itself, there's Lockwood resource from there. So yeah. Absolutely. I
Lauren Chiren: totally agree. But, yeah, hormone's, I mean, hormone's in in themselves, we could talk
Lauren Chiren: about for hours because they have such a massive role in our bodies
Lauren Chiren: and they, you know, they're happening, they're going on, they're going up and down,
Lauren Chiren: and fluctuating and doing all sorts of weird and wonderful things to keep us
Lauren Chiren: going. And the more we understand how we function, the
Lauren Chiren: more control we can have over that. But equally from an employer, you know,
Lauren Chiren: going back to the workplace from an employer's point of view, if they can
Lauren Chiren: embrace the fact that hormones play a big role in people's
Lauren Chiren: lives, and that that can be to their, benefit as
Lauren Chiren: much as anything else, then we can start to see people really
Lauren Chiren: thriving and doing work, you know, being super creative, super analytical,
Lauren Chiren: super, you know, just amazing at what they
Lauren Chiren: do. By embracing the cycles and the changes that they go through,
Lauren Chiren: monthly and throughout their entire life.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. And likewise, testosterone's also hormone. She say women have it as small
Joanne Lockwood: quantities, but also understanding about the male cycle of of testosterone
Joanne Lockwood: increase in the the mid to late teens and
Joanne Lockwood: through into the early twenties is is a an extremely,
Joanne Lockwood: powerful hormone in its own right as Wellbeing changing brain behavior
Joanne Lockwood: and and and personalities as well. So, yeah, it's, I guess,
Joanne Lockwood: every one of us has touched by almost in some way.
Joanne Lockwood: And, yeah, I think is it the ovaries produce the the testosterone
Joanne Lockwood: in a in a female body, which is then converted to estrogen, isn't it? And,
Lauren Chiren: I was just, just as you were talking, I was slightly giggling to myself because
Lauren Chiren: I've got a fourteen year old in the house at the moment. Fourteen year old
Lauren Chiren: boy. And, we've had some very fascinating conversations.
Lauren Chiren: So so far, I think I'm getting off very likely, like,
Lauren Chiren: lightly as a parent, but, which you'll see what's around the corner.
Joanne Lockwood: It's when the busk and the odor develops. You know, you're right at that
Joanne Lockwood: stage. Yeah. We would. Smell. Yeah. The sundays
Lauren Chiren: are cart blanks. You're not allowed to do anything on screens until you've done your
Lauren Chiren: bedroom, and that involves thoroughly doing your floors. Thoroughly
Lauren Chiren: changing your bed linen. So that's a
Lauren Chiren: paramount. I've got a regulation of, of our son,
Joanne Lockwood: going through that phase. It made me wonder if I ever remember
Joanne Lockwood: smelling that myself, I suppose, when you're living with those hormones, you can't smell
Joanne Lockwood: yourself, Kenny, or your or your own musk. So, yeah, it's I've
Lauren Chiren: run out the door with the, the deodorant, or the prespirates, whatever it's called, you
Lauren Chiren: know, the, the stuff that they use. And so, no, I don't think you've put
Lauren Chiren: your entity person on today yet. Just wanna take that with you today. You
Lauren Chiren: might want to put someone at lunchtime. Go up. On the top of it.
Lauren Chiren: Oh, some of the computations are hysterical. But,
Lauren Chiren: yeah, no hormones are so important, so important to
Lauren Chiren: understand. And when you can embrace that for yourself, you can just up
Lauren Chiren: your productivity in every aspect of your life. So really super important.
Joanne Lockwood: I have a huge impact on your mental well-being, mental health,
Joanne Lockwood: even even how you think and some of your inhibitions
Joanne Lockwood: and inhibitions, they they do I
Joanne Lockwood: was often thinking that that that they remote control you sometimes. They they can take
Joanne Lockwood: over your life. And as you say, the experience you had 6
Joanne Lockwood: or 7 years ago, where you realize that the lack of hormones or the
Joanne Lockwood: disruption to your hormone had a real impact on your cognitive
Joanne Lockwood: function, if you like, your ability. To be who you were.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. And because one of the things that was always today, I think one of
Lauren Chiren: the first times we spoke was how you describe that sense of
Lauren Chiren: calm, when you started going through your hormone regime
Lauren Chiren: and the kind of switch that that brought for you, which I think you said
Lauren Chiren: was quite welcome. Would that be -- Oh, yeah. It's
Joanne Lockwood: it was like I had someone else driving my body before. It was there was
Joanne Lockwood: another voice in my head that I had that shouted louder than everything else. Mhmm.
Joanne Lockwood: And I think once I removed testosterone
Joanne Lockwood: and increase estrogen, I I I realized that that really
Joanne Lockwood: shut down that that extra voice that was unwelcome has been unwelcome in my head
Joanne Lockwood: for years, controlled actions that I was ashamed of or
Joanne Lockwood: disappointed with myself -- Mhmm. -- and allowed me to to have control of
Joanne Lockwood: my body and my thoughts for once. And so, yeah, it was a real
Joanne Lockwood: I often described that I went for being two people in my head to being
Joanne Lockwood: one person, and it fundamentally changed, I mean, apart
Joanne Lockwood: from my gender transition, but my gender transition, the fundamental
Joanne Lockwood: thing was the reduction, complete reduction of testosterone, and
Joanne Lockwood: the the overriding introduction of Oestrogen. Mhmm.
Joanne Lockwood: That was you can only explain, I think, that what that might what
Joanne Lockwood: happened to my head, my mind, the way I felt the way I experienced
Joanne Lockwood: the world, based on that on that that significant change. I don't
Joanne Lockwood: think the social element would have had the same impact. I feel
Joanne Lockwood: so calm, so relaxed, so so unified in who I am.
Joanne Lockwood: Something I'd never felt for the previous 50 odd years of my
Joanne Lockwood: life. Amazing. Yeah. And,
Joanne Lockwood: you know, I I I identify as a trans woman as you
Joanne Lockwood: know, but we've also gotta recognize that there are trans men out there
Joanne Lockwood: who are also on a similar journey just because someone's trans doesn't
Joanne Lockwood: mean to say they don't have these. They don't have the menopause. They don't have
Joanne Lockwood: a monthly cycle. They don't have periods. You know? And if we're
Joanne Lockwood: if we're being very 21st century about this, men can have
Joanne Lockwood: periods, men can have cycles, men can have menopause.
Joanne Lockwood: Where there were assigned feedback at birth. So we have to also recognize that
Joanne Lockwood: someone in your organization who you may know
Joanne Lockwood: who is a man may actually have,
Joanne Lockwood: may may be trans and may also have these underlying
Joanne Lockwood: conditions as they grow older. So, yeah, it's not
Joanne Lockwood: all straightforward. No. And I think that's one of the interesting
Lauren Chiren: things now. So I have some clients who no longer have male and female
Lauren Chiren: toilets. They have gender neutral toilets. So one of the very first questions
Lauren Chiren: I, I, I ask an organization is what pronouns do you
Lauren Chiren: use? How to, you know, how what's the education level like in the
Lauren Chiren: organization? And I always ask them, are you comfortable
Lauren Chiren: with me using woman to cover all people who were assigned
Lauren Chiren: female at birth who may have a monthly cycle who may bleed. And
Lauren Chiren: we just talk through what that means and who that includes as Wellbeing
Lauren Chiren: quite often, it's, it's an eye opener for them because it's not
Lauren Chiren: something I've really thought about before, but I'm always really clear that when I'm using
Lauren Chiren: terminology, what I'm actually covering when I'm referring to that terminology
Lauren Chiren: as well. So I think that's a big part of the
Lauren Chiren: awakening and the inclusion of you
Lauren Chiren: know, what, what I'm trying to, to over to people, what I'm
Lauren Chiren: trying to get people to understand. And
Lauren Chiren: typically, you know, with clearly your typical female
Lauren Chiren: audience get it. They understand it. They feel relieved that someone's actually
Lauren Chiren: talking about it, and that's for the kind of en masse However,
Lauren Chiren: I always find it fascinating because it's usually their partners and managers that come up
Lauren Chiren: to me afterwards and go, oh my goodness. I am so
Lauren Chiren: pleased to learn about this or didn't know that there were
Lauren Chiren: 34 symptoms, or the one that always touches my heart the most
Lauren Chiren: is when I get someone come up to me, and say to me, I think
Lauren Chiren: you might just have saved my marriage. And that is one of,
Lauren Chiren: you know, especially with the story of my friend overseas,
Lauren Chiren: when I get a man coming up from the end and see, I think you
Lauren Chiren: might have just saved my marriage. It's just like, blimey, why
Lauren Chiren: do we not know about this stuff? It's so basic. It's so
Lauren Chiren: simple and it's so easy to learn about and do something about and talk
Lauren Chiren: about, but it's just having that confidence to say the word menopause out
Lauren Chiren: loud. And to stand behind it. And I
Lauren Chiren: don't know how when you were, you know, when you were going through your journey,
Lauren Chiren: Did you find that your own posture and position changed when you're interacting with
Lauren Chiren: other people? Yeah. I
Joanne Lockwood: guess I guess it did in terms of my
Joanne Lockwood: what my femininity and masculinity is up is up. Yeah. I think I'm thinking about
Lauren Chiren: when I would go to business breakfast and be one of few women there when
Lauren Chiren: I, when I this journey, this part of my journey, I'd woke up and introduce
Lauren Chiren: myself as an exec executive health coach
Lauren Chiren: who helped women in midlife. Whereas now, we'll cut go
Lauren Chiren: high. I'm Lauren Churn. I specialize sporting organizations become
Lauren Chiren: menopause aware. And as my posture has changed, I
Lauren Chiren: realized that how I behave has a very big impact on the people I'm
Lauren Chiren: interacting with. So the more confident I am, the more sure of my
Lauren Chiren: topic, the easier it is for the messaging to land with other
Lauren Chiren: people. I suppose in a similar way that
Joanne Lockwood: because I have a level of confidence and self
Joanne Lockwood: belief and I believe I'm
Joanne Lockwood: accepted more because I'm I'm I'm sure of who
Joanne Lockwood: I am. Mhmm. And I'm confident about talking about things,
Joanne Lockwood: and I get engaged in conversations that are positive
Joanne Lockwood: most often, because I'm not shying
Joanne Lockwood: away from who I am or what all or what I'm talking
Joanne Lockwood: about. So may maybe I I think I think as as you
Joanne Lockwood: said at the beginning, your mission is to try and make talk about menopause a
Joanne Lockwood: comfortable conversation rather than an uncomfortable or or a
Joanne Lockwood: non conversation. So I think there's I I did the same around transgender.
Joanne Lockwood: Knowledge and people and just trying to raise
Joanne Lockwood: awareness so that it's a topic that you're having. It's a
Joanne Lockwood: conversation you're having rather than ignoring. Can I I think, yeah, in the same way
Joanne Lockwood: you're creating positive conversations? I'd like to think I am as Wellbeing at least when
Joanne Lockwood: I run training sessions, I often say, does anybody how many people in the in
Joanne Lockwood: this in this training session know someone who's in this close
Joanne Lockwood: circle as trans, gender diverse genderqueer, either
Joanne Lockwood: themselves, their family, their friends, or their work colleagues. And often,
Joanne Lockwood: it's kind of 30% do, 70% don't.
Joanne Lockwood: And they're quite relieved afterwards because I say, well, now you know me, you can
Joanne Lockwood: all take yes next time before they go. But,
Joanne Lockwood: yeah, I often meet people in when I'm out
Joanne Lockwood: talking training, even online, where someone in their life
Joanne Lockwood: is gender diverse in some way, but if not them, then their
Joanne Lockwood: cousin nor a friend of a friend, daughter or son or a friend of a
Joanne Lockwood: friend's partner transitioned, etcetera. So I think we're I don't think we're
Joanne Lockwood: more than 1 or 2 degrees away from somebody
Joanne Lockwood: who's trans or gender diverse, and So the conversations are
Joanne Lockwood: becoming more and more welcome. I get more and more messages
Joanne Lockwood: on LinkedIn. I've had I've had quite a few quite a few messages
Joanne Lockwood: from from fathers who saw the documentary I took part
Joanne Lockwood: in and thanked me for creating that conversation
Joanne Lockwood: in their in their family. So I think
Joanne Lockwood: what we do is allow people to have a conversation and start
Joanne Lockwood: that that process. That that's the best. That's that that, for me, that
Joanne Lockwood: inspires me, if you could do more, that is a really quick first step to
Joanne Lockwood: have that conversation and talk about it. Yeah. No. I 100% agree. I just
Lauren Chiren: love when I, you know, one of my classics and I walk away from an
Lauren Chiren: event is turnaround goal. Right. Repeat after Perimenopause,
Lauren Chiren: and I'll repeat that three times just getting people to say the word out loud
Lauren Chiren: three times. And it's just phenomenal when the whole room
Lauren Chiren: or, you know, on screen and suddenly you just hear everyone take themselves off mute
Lauren Chiren: and go menopause and then invite them to do it every day for 21
Lauren Chiren: days till it just becomes normal. And, you know, it's, it's
Lauren Chiren: just a quirky little thing that I do, but the more we can stand
Lauren Chiren: in our power and the more we can coverage other people's stand in their power
Lauren Chiren: and, and be more open and more accepting, I just believe will
Lauren Chiren: create such a happier and more content
Lauren Chiren: world. It sounds it sounds a little bit grand, but
Lauren Chiren: it's so important. Wellbeing
Joanne Lockwood: certainly did today the difference between premenopausal,
Joanne Lockwood: Perimenopause, menopausal, and postmenopausal. And
Joanne Lockwood: that the word menopause really is a a kind of a one day event that
Joanne Lockwood: you go, yay. It's been a year. That's it. But and up to that point
Joanne Lockwood: is perimenopause after that point it's Perimenopause. And before
Joanne Lockwood: perimenopausal, what you're saying is basically your pre, I. E. You're
Joanne Lockwood: in the prime of your life. Your your your you're
Joanne Lockwood: growing up becoming becoming a more mature, and that's
Joanne Lockwood: typical for you. And it's only when the the hormone levels
Joanne Lockwood: start dropping and your month starting a period
Joanne Lockwood: stop for a period of 12 months. That's when the the Perimenopause kicks
Joanne Lockwood: in. So if nothing else, I've learned a lot.
Joanne Lockwood: I was a little bit educated before, but I've I've I feel like I've now
Joanne Lockwood: got the I've now got this that key facts in my head. And, also, I'm
Joanne Lockwood: I'm more aware just haven't spoken to you about these, was it, 30, 34
Joanne Lockwood: signs of of of the Perimenopause?
Joanne Lockwood: And the symptoms that go on that I'm more
Joanne Lockwood: aware now of when I meet people, I even think back in
Joanne Lockwood: people I've known over the last 5, 10 years, Well, well, I'm now
Joanne Lockwood: thinking maybe that was a factor. It's a new relationship breakdowns.
Joanne Lockwood: You know, I'm hyper where relationships Oestrogen down. Some of my
Joanne Lockwood: friends have have divorced. And I'm actually wondering whether this could
Joanne Lockwood: have been an impact as well. Yeah. I think, I mean, they're gonna close out
Lauren Chiren: in negative stats, but the average age of menopause is 51, which is
Lauren Chiren: the same as the average age of women attempting to take their own lives.
Lauren Chiren: There's a spike in women leaving work age 45 to 55,
Lauren Chiren: the average age of menopause and a spike in divorce 45 to 55.
Lauren Chiren: So I don't think it, you know, there is some research going on into this
Lauren Chiren: at the moment, but I don't think it takes us a rocket scientist to fit
Lauren Chiren: the put the things together to realize that hormones have got a big role to
Lauren Chiren: play. So like anything in life, when you understand it and you accept it and
Lauren Chiren: you know what to do about it, then you are in a much
Lauren Chiren: more harmonious space. And the help and support is all out
Lauren Chiren: there is just learning how to access it and knowing where to go to get
Lauren Chiren: sign posted. So thank you so much. That's the
Joanne Lockwood: positive thing. So so how do people get a hold of you?
Joanne Lockwood: So you've got if we talk about Facebook group, you've got website, So
Joanne Lockwood: I'm sure that people are gonna wanna make contact with the after listening to this.
Joanne Lockwood: So tell us how how it goes. -- really simple. Just contact me in
Lauren Chiren: LinkedIn. It's probably the best place to get hold of
Lauren Chiren: me. And my my website's women of a certain stage .com.
Lauren Chiren: I am the curiously bad admin. So I'm not one of these people that's
Lauren Chiren: got this always seen dancing up to date website. If you want
Lauren Chiren: to see what I'm and you want to learn more about menopause, definitely join me
Lauren Chiren: on LinkedIn. You'll hear about everything I'm up to, all that I'm doing, and
Lauren Chiren: I'm always really keen to open a conversation and see how I can help and
Lauren Chiren: support. And for sure, share this podcast,
Joanne Lockwood: share some of the webinars you've done before, etcetera, etcetera. And
Joanne Lockwood: I suppose if you're in an organization, have a have a chat
Joanne Lockwood: with you, see if you can do a talk or come in and advise, etcetera.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. And if anyone, you know, if anyone is struggling
Lauren Chiren: themselves, you know, give me a shout. If I can't help, I will know someone
Lauren Chiren: that can. So whether it's personal or professional, I can definitely
Lauren Chiren: get you on the right road. Fantastic.
Joanne Lockwood: Well, I'm inspired and there's loads of ponder there, and I'm
Joanne Lockwood: sure, the listeners, anyone tuning in will
Joanne Lockwood: have a it's a fantastic resource out. So a huge thank
Joanne Lockwood: you. Thank you so much. Our time today, Lauren. A huge thank you to the
Joanne Lockwood: listeners. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for listening to the end.
Joanne Lockwood: Please do subscribe to keep updated on future episodes of the Inclusion
Joanne Lockwood: Bites Podcast. That's B-I-T-E-S. Please tell your friends.
Joanne Lockwood: Please tell your colleagues. Please do share this. I have another
Joanne Lockwood: exciting guest lined up. I'm sure you'd be also inspired by over the
Joanne Lockwood: next few weeks or months. And if you care, if you'd like to be a
Joanne Lockwood: guest on the show, let me know. Drop me an email. If you've
Joanne Lockwood: got any feedback, suggestions, or anything any other comments you'd like to make to
Joanne Lockwood: improve the show? Again, let me know. So just drop me a line to
Joanne Lockwood: jo.lockwood@stagehappen.co.uk.
Joanne Lockwood: So finally, my name is Joanne Lockwood, and it has been an absolute pleasure
Joanne Lockwood: to host this podcast for you today. Catch you next time.
Joanne Lockwood: Bye.