WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:04.319 Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood, and I am your host for 2 00:00:04.319 --> 00:00:08.000 the Inclusion Bites podcast. In this series, I'll be interviewing a 3 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:11.495 number of amazing people as simply having a conversation around the 4 00:00:11.495 --> 00:00:15.094 subject of inclusion, belonging, and generally making the 5 00:00:15.094 --> 00:00:18.810 world a better place for everyone to thrive. If you'd like to 6 00:00:18.810 --> 00:00:22.590 join me in the future then please do drop me a line to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. 7 00:00:22.898 --> 00:00:23.417 S-E-E 8 00:00:25.850 --> 00:00:29.645 Change Happen dot co dot uk. You 9 00:00:29.645 --> 00:00:33.245 can catch up with all of the previous shows on Itunes, Spotify and their 10 00:00:33.245 --> 00:00:36.760 usual places. So plug in your headphones, grab a 11 00:00:36.760 --> 00:00:40.219 decaf and let's get going. Today 12 00:00:40.519 --> 00:00:44.195 is episode 27 with the title Who Am 13 00:00:44.195 --> 00:00:48.035 I and Who Are You? I have the absolute honor 14 00:00:48.035 --> 00:00:51.670 and privilege to be joined by Roland Chesters. Roland 15 00:00:51.670 --> 00:00:54.410 describes himself as someone who champions authenticity. 16 00:00:55.670 --> 00:00:59.510 And when I've asked Roland to describe his superpower, he said that 17 00:00:59.510 --> 00:01:03.225 it's slowing down the fast thinking. Hello, 18 00:01:03.225 --> 00:01:06.985 Roland. Welcome to the show. Hello, Joanne. Thank you very much 19 00:01:06.985 --> 00:01:09.565 for inviting me. It's great to be here. 20 00:01:11.170 --> 00:01:14.530 We've been planning this for a couple of months and, I've been really looking forward 21 00:01:14.530 --> 00:01:18.185 to this. Me too. Me too. Okay, 22 00:01:18.185 --> 00:01:21.805 Rowan. So tell me, who am I? Who are you? What's that mean to you? 23 00:01:21.865 --> 00:01:25.469 Well, from from one obviously, great 24 00:01:25.469 --> 00:01:29.310 fashionista to another, how many hats do you wear? Not 25 00:01:29.310 --> 00:01:32.835 all at the same time, obviously. But just think about the number of 26 00:01:32.835 --> 00:01:36.515 different hats that we wear and change hats for 27 00:01:36.515 --> 00:01:40.320 labels. What labels do we choose to apply to ourselves, 28 00:01:40.320 --> 00:01:44.100 or what labels may other people apply to ourselves, and 29 00:01:44.800 --> 00:01:48.534 how interchangeable are those labels? When does one 30 00:01:48.534 --> 00:01:51.835 label become more dominant than another label? 31 00:01:52.375 --> 00:01:55.735 What I'm I think I'm talking about is is what is 32 00:01:55.735 --> 00:01:59.470 now in the the trendy DNI world called intersectionality, 33 00:02:00.890 --> 00:02:04.410 where it is recognized that there are many different 34 00:02:04.410 --> 00:02:07.935 facets to an individual. And some 35 00:02:07.935 --> 00:02:11.455 facets may be be become more pronounced, more 36 00:02:11.455 --> 00:02:15.060 recognized, stronger, depending on the con that the 37 00:02:15.060 --> 00:02:18.900 particular context that that person is at that time. And 38 00:02:18.900 --> 00:02:22.644 the reason I say that is in in my own experience, 39 00:02:22.644 --> 00:02:26.245 my own history, I'm as a gay man 40 00:02:26.245 --> 00:02:29.849 for many years, I wasn't out at work. I 41 00:02:29.849 --> 00:02:33.209 didn't share that side of my private life with 42 00:02:33.209 --> 00:02:36.890 anybody, which meant that on the Monday morning when you go into 43 00:02:36.890 --> 00:02:40.685 work and people gather around the coffee station and share stories of what they've 44 00:02:40.685 --> 00:02:44.385 been up to over the weekend, I was very careful to 45 00:02:44.525 --> 00:02:46.070 not say, Richard 46 00:02:53.825 --> 00:02:57.345 avoiding any, social activities. So no 47 00:02:57.345 --> 00:03:01.000 drinks after work just in case a mannerism or 48 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:04.840 a wrong word slipped out and somebody, cottoned on 49 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:08.504 to the fact that I'm a gay man. On 50 00:03:08.504 --> 00:03:12.345 reflection, many years later, if I had been out of work, it probably wouldn't have 51 00:03:12.345 --> 00:03:15.944 made an iota of difference, but that was my own kind of 52 00:03:15.944 --> 00:03:19.650 self stigma, if you like. When I joined the foreign office 53 00:03:19.650 --> 00:03:23.330 in the year 2000, joining the foreign office, everybody has 54 00:03:23.330 --> 00:03:26.845 to go through a very in-depth security screening, 55 00:03:27.785 --> 00:03:31.545 including things like, wanting to know my partner's 56 00:03:31.545 --> 00:03:35.170 mother's maiden name. So at that point, it 57 00:03:35.170 --> 00:03:38.709 was, yeah, how to be honest about this, 58 00:03:39.410 --> 00:03:43.125 and share information that I am in a same sex relationship 59 00:03:43.125 --> 00:03:46.885 and so on and so forth. So when I joined the foreign office, 60 00:03:46.885 --> 00:03:50.725 the first day walking into the foreign office with my head held high 61 00:03:50.725 --> 00:03:54.130 and my metaphorical rainbow scarf gracefully 62 00:03:54.590 --> 00:03:58.430 draped around my neck. It was with a huge sense of relief that 63 00:03:58.430 --> 00:04:01.495 at last I could be wholly 64 00:04:01.955 --> 00:04:05.255 who I wanted to be. I had no reservations 65 00:04:05.555 --> 00:04:09.030 about engaging in conversation about what Richard 66 00:04:09.030 --> 00:04:12.870 does, what we do together socially, and all that kind of 67 00:04:12.870 --> 00:04:15.930 stuff, which is great and a huge relief. 68 00:04:16.695 --> 00:04:19.995 Meant that I could be, I think, more productive, 69 00:04:20.375 --> 00:04:23.995 more engaged because previously, there was all that little 70 00:04:24.055 --> 00:04:27.800 bit of my brain that was on the alert, that little red 71 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:31.400 flag flying saying, be careful, be careful, be careful. Don't go 72 00:04:31.400 --> 00:04:35.180 down that route. Now I didn't need to have that. 73 00:04:36.065 --> 00:04:39.845 And yet something like 3 years into my employment, 74 00:04:40.065 --> 00:04:43.685 I became unwell. I was eventually diagnosed 75 00:04:43.745 --> 00:04:47.170 with HIV and AIDS. I was off work for 5 76 00:04:47.170 --> 00:04:50.930 months recovering. When I returned, the sexual health records are kept separate to 77 00:04:50.930 --> 00:04:54.345 all other medical records. My employers had not been 78 00:04:54.345 --> 00:04:58.025 told about the HIV and AIDS, only about my AIDS defining 79 00:04:58.025 --> 00:05:01.520 illness, which was a brain disease. My first day back at 80 00:05:01.520 --> 00:05:05.280 work, I shared with my line manager the whole diagnosis, so not only 81 00:05:05.280 --> 00:05:09.045 the brain disease but the HIV and AIDS. And she, with my 82 00:05:09.045 --> 00:05:12.645 agreement, went off to share that information with HR, and 83 00:05:12.645 --> 00:05:16.025 HR almost immediately came back, sent me that little email 84 00:05:16.400 --> 00:05:19.940 saying you cannot share that information with anybody else 85 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:23.920 because we, your employers, cannot be held responsible for how 86 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:27.525 other people may react or respond to that information. 87 00:05:28.705 --> 00:05:32.544 And I had been reaching out for understanding and support, not for pity 88 00:05:32.544 --> 00:05:35.509 or sympathy, and and they ganked me. 89 00:05:36.370 --> 00:05:40.210 And they deprived me of the ability to 90 00:05:40.210 --> 00:05:44.025 be fully authentic. Being diagnosed with HIV and AIDS, 91 00:05:44.025 --> 00:05:47.645 having the brain disease, actually gave me a different 92 00:05:47.705 --> 00:05:51.460 person, a different character. At the time I was diagnosed, I was told 93 00:05:51.460 --> 00:05:55.259 I had 2 weeks to live, and that makes you reevaluate who you 94 00:05:55.259 --> 00:05:59.025 are, what you want to do, what you want to achieve, what 95 00:05:59.025 --> 00:06:02.485 your legacy will be. And yet the foreign office 96 00:06:02.625 --> 00:06:04.324 wouldn't allow me to do that. 97 00:06:06.050 --> 00:06:09.430 Eventually, cut a long story short, I 98 00:06:10.210 --> 00:06:13.650 I forced their hand into enabling me 99 00:06:13.650 --> 00:06:17.105 to speak up, speak openly about 100 00:06:17.105 --> 00:06:20.705 being HIV positive. And that meant that I could 101 00:06:20.705 --> 00:06:24.470 again rediscover my full authenticity. But in 102 00:06:24.470 --> 00:06:28.170 that period where a part of me was denied, 103 00:06:28.630 --> 00:06:32.310 it had huge impact on my mental health, my mental 104 00:06:32.310 --> 00:06:35.695 well-being. Shall I stop there? That's quite a lot to say. 105 00:06:37.195 --> 00:06:41.035 Yeah. No. That's, I've I've heard your story before. I've 106 00:06:41.035 --> 00:06:44.700 heard you speak live on a number of occasions and every 107 00:06:44.700 --> 00:06:48.220 time you talk and say those words it's extremely 108 00:06:48.220 --> 00:06:51.600 impactful and moving. And as you're talking 109 00:06:52.044 --> 00:06:55.664 what's going through my mind is that this need 110 00:06:56.365 --> 00:06:59.425 to be 1 person, to have 1 truth, 111 00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:04.180 not to have 2 voices in your head and I went through a 112 00:07:04.180 --> 00:07:07.845 similar, obviously not life changing, but maybe in terms of 113 00:07:08.165 --> 00:07:10.025 being gay and coming out around that, 114 00:07:11.925 --> 00:07:15.500 before I was out and open about my trans identity, I was always living 115 00:07:15.500 --> 00:07:18.860 2 lives, I had 2 Facebook accounts, I had 2 116 00:07:18.860 --> 00:07:22.595 profiles, I had 2 wardrobes, when I went 117 00:07:22.595 --> 00:07:26.375 away for weekends I was on a stag weekend with the boys which 118 00:07:26.675 --> 00:07:30.500 in reality was probably not a big lie But it was it wasn't 119 00:07:30.500 --> 00:07:34.180 how I saw the weekend or the people I was with. But it was much 120 00:07:34.180 --> 00:07:37.220 easier to frame it in that way so that there was no mistake, there was 121 00:07:37.220 --> 00:07:40.695 no error, there was no kind of it all seemed very natural to everybody else 122 00:07:40.695 --> 00:07:44.455 around me. So yeah. Yeah. And the But didn't 123 00:07:44.575 --> 00:07:48.200 the simplicity of being one person Yes. Is amazing as well. Didn't didn't you find 124 00:07:48.280 --> 00:07:52.040 when you were finally able to be the person 125 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:55.720 that you wanted to be, the person that you were destined to 126 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:59.514 be, It's like a huge weight that's lifted off your shoulders 127 00:07:59.655 --> 00:08:03.175 because finally, at last, you can step out into the world and say, 128 00:08:03.175 --> 00:08:06.370 actually, sod you, metaphorically, 129 00:08:07.390 --> 00:08:11.170 this is who I am. I don't have to change to 130 00:08:11.230 --> 00:08:14.885 to please you. If you like me, that's great. 131 00:08:15.105 --> 00:08:17.365 If you don't, just move on. 132 00:08:19.185 --> 00:08:22.670 Completely. And I used to describe it as having a separate 133 00:08:22.670 --> 00:08:26.430 subroutine in my head that every time I spoke, I had to pass it through 134 00:08:26.430 --> 00:08:30.210 this processor to validate it, check it, and then pass it back going, 135 00:08:30.314 --> 00:08:34.095 say it, don't say it and then every almost like every 136 00:08:34.235 --> 00:08:37.774 waking moment involved these two voices in my head, these two identities, 137 00:08:38.154 --> 00:08:41.919 these two ways of thinking. And it's and 138 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:45.440 I found it very noisy. The head that my brain was 139 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:49.040 always having conversations with itself, always questioning, always thinking 140 00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:52.485 and having a discussion of should I say this, should I and I was actually 141 00:08:52.485 --> 00:08:56.245 having conversations in my head with my 2 identities and what I 142 00:08:56.245 --> 00:08:59.610 found I suppose in the last probably 3 years 143 00:08:59.990 --> 00:09:03.770 since I became 1 person, authentically 1 person, 144 00:09:04.150 --> 00:09:07.404 that my brain is so quiet, so silent, 145 00:09:08.105 --> 00:09:11.865 so relaxing when I'm not doing anything I 146 00:09:11.865 --> 00:09:15.420 can literally blue sky think and shut down and just wander off 147 00:09:15.740 --> 00:09:18.779 and I have no noise in my head and I've talked to other people who 148 00:09:18.779 --> 00:09:22.220 say oh I think about this, don't you think about that' it's like Jo, I 149 00:09:22.220 --> 00:09:25.945 just have this relaxing silence 150 00:09:25.945 --> 00:09:29.785 in my head and I can then fill that silence with thought, with music, 151 00:09:29.785 --> 00:09:33.319 with whatever I want to do but I'm not fighting it and I and that 152 00:09:33.319 --> 00:09:37.000 is really powerful to hear your story about the 153 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:40.735 same sort of thoughts about this this this 154 00:09:40.735 --> 00:09:44.495 double thinking, this Absolutely. What you said. And and all of that 155 00:09:44.575 --> 00:09:48.015 I've seen that. All of before that peace and that 156 00:09:48.015 --> 00:09:51.810 calm, all of that processing that you 157 00:09:51.810 --> 00:09:55.270 were going through, that I was going through, is actually 158 00:09:55.410 --> 00:09:59.165 exhausting. It's mentally exhausting, and mentally exhausting means it's 159 00:09:59.165 --> 00:10:02.545 physically exhausting. So and if as an employee, 160 00:10:02.845 --> 00:10:05.745 certainly less productive, less engaged, less happy 161 00:10:06.204 --> 00:10:10.000 because there's all of this stuff going on at the same 162 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:13.620 time that, hopefully, nobody else realizes 163 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:17.755 because that's the whole point of us having that stuff going on to make sure 164 00:10:17.755 --> 00:10:21.515 nobody else realizes what's going on. And so for me 165 00:10:21.675 --> 00:10:25.135 and that's why I champion authenticity because an authentic 166 00:10:25.355 --> 00:10:28.960 person in the workplace is a happy person. 167 00:10:29.100 --> 00:10:32.880 A happy person is an engaged, productive employee 168 00:10:33.235 --> 00:10:36.995 who will stay with your organization for as long as they need 169 00:10:36.995 --> 00:10:40.275 to, as long as you want them to because they found a place where they 170 00:10:40.275 --> 00:10:42.535 can be fully themselves. 171 00:10:44.100 --> 00:10:47.700 It's so important. Alright. Let's just talk about the, 172 00:10:48.340 --> 00:10:51.640 your your job where you were diagnosed with HIV, 173 00:10:52.375 --> 00:10:55.894 and they wanted you to effectively keep that secret, actually keep that 174 00:10:55.894 --> 00:10:59.195 secret. Was that a sign of the times, a misunderstanding 175 00:10:59.815 --> 00:11:02.870 or was that just the culture? I mean, would you have seen that in other 176 00:11:02.870 --> 00:11:06.630 organizations do you think at the time? Well, this was so I 177 00:11:06.630 --> 00:11:10.235 was diagnosed in 2006, so 14 years ago. So this 178 00:11:10.235 --> 00:11:13.835 was 13 years ago. And, 179 00:11:13.835 --> 00:11:17.435 certainly, the treatment of HIV and AIDS has 180 00:11:17.435 --> 00:11:20.990 moved on considerably rapidly in the intervening period. 181 00:11:21.450 --> 00:11:25.050 We are now at a point where somebody who is 182 00:11:25.050 --> 00:11:28.834 on effective treatment and adheres to that treatment who's 183 00:11:28.834 --> 00:11:32.595 HIV positive and on treatment, gets to a point where 184 00:11:32.595 --> 00:11:36.340 the viral load is so low in their bloodstream that it's no longer detectable 185 00:11:42.580 --> 00:11:46.275 well managed, it's undetectable. And if it's undetectable, it 186 00:11:46.275 --> 00:11:49.955 means that it's not strong enough for that person to be able to 187 00:11:49.955 --> 00:11:53.500 transmit the virus to somebody else so they are no longer 188 00:11:53.500 --> 00:11:56.860 infectious. And the current slogan is u equals 189 00:11:56.860 --> 00:11:59.440 u, undetectable equals untransmittable. 190 00:12:01.035 --> 00:12:04.875 But not many people know that. Not many people understand that. Not many 191 00:12:04.875 --> 00:12:08.415 people are aware of that. And this is only in the last 192 00:12:09.019 --> 00:12:12.779 3 years or so that this has happened. So 13 years ago, it was 193 00:12:12.779 --> 00:12:15.040 potentially a different story. 194 00:12:16.365 --> 00:12:19.805 But even then, the 195 00:12:19.805 --> 00:12:23.165 mythology that if you use the same 196 00:12:23.165 --> 00:12:26.940 cup, even though it's being washed, if you use the same keyboard, 197 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:30.680 if you use a toilet seat, that's something and all of that kind of 198 00:12:30.680 --> 00:12:33.885 stuff. Just touching. Absolutely. 199 00:12:34.345 --> 00:12:38.125 Yeah. And I think the response 200 00:12:38.185 --> 00:12:41.404 of my then employers was based on that outdated 201 00:12:42.970 --> 00:12:46.410 mythology. Eventually, when I kind of forced the 202 00:12:46.410 --> 00:12:50.065 situation and and was able to speak openly, World 203 00:12:50.065 --> 00:12:53.525 AIDS Day is 1st December every year. So I organized 204 00:12:53.825 --> 00:12:57.585 on on the 1st World AIDS Day when I was out as being HIV 205 00:12:57.585 --> 00:13:01.200 positive to have some speakers come in from the Terrence Higgins Trust, 206 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:04.720 which is the the biggest charge in the UK that supports HIV positive 207 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:08.505 people to come and talk about HIV and AIDS, the 208 00:13:08.505 --> 00:13:12.105 global pandemic because, you know, there have been other 209 00:13:12.105 --> 00:13:15.900 pandemics. And I put post Other pandemics now 210 00:13:15.900 --> 00:13:19.740 available. Yes. Absolutely. Too surprised at 1. And I 211 00:13:19.740 --> 00:13:23.535 put posters up around the office advertising this event with my name 212 00:13:23.535 --> 00:13:27.375 on it, my phone number saying I was organizing it as a colleague living 213 00:13:27.375 --> 00:13:30.895 with HIV and AIDS. And posters were defaced. They 214 00:13:30.895 --> 00:13:34.329 had graffiti put on them, some of them were slashed 215 00:13:34.470 --> 00:13:38.310 with scissors or a knife, some were pulled off the wall and 216 00:13:38.310 --> 00:13:42.085 torn into pieces and trodden on and I I 217 00:13:42.085 --> 00:13:45.685 was, bearing in mind that this is this was probably about 218 00:13:45.685 --> 00:13:49.190 2, 3 years after my diagnosis, It was the first 219 00:13:49.190 --> 00:13:53.029 time I'd experienced that kind of visceral gut 220 00:13:53.029 --> 00:13:56.570 reaction to me sharing information 221 00:13:56.790 --> 00:14:00.615 about my status. And, yes, it absolutely petrified me. 222 00:14:00.675 --> 00:14:04.515 I thought that if somebody could take a knife to a a piece 223 00:14:04.515 --> 00:14:07.780 of paper and have that kind of intense reaction, 224 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:12.000 what happens if they came across me in a corridor late one night 225 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:15.625 when there's nobody else around kind of thing. But 226 00:14:15.765 --> 00:14:19.065 on reflection, I kind of eventually understood 227 00:14:20.085 --> 00:14:23.305 that this is a response of fear 228 00:14:24.230 --> 00:14:27.850 and fear based on lack of up to date 229 00:14:27.990 --> 00:14:31.350 current information. And 230 00:14:31.350 --> 00:14:34.785 that fear then leads to a reaction 231 00:14:34.925 --> 00:14:38.685 of hate, that gut reaction 232 00:14:38.685 --> 00:14:42.350 that says, you need to stay away from me because you're you're 233 00:14:42.350 --> 00:14:45.790 scary. And that then sent me on the 234 00:14:45.790 --> 00:14:49.170 the the mission, I suppose, of 235 00:14:49.310 --> 00:14:52.935 educating, informing, bringing people up to 236 00:14:52.935 --> 00:14:56.555 date with current knowledge and information 237 00:14:56.695 --> 00:15:00.280 about HIV and AIDS. So 238 00:15:00.280 --> 00:15:04.060 I remember the eighties and those adverts on television, 239 00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:08.345 the tombstones. There's very much a framing about this 240 00:15:08.345 --> 00:15:12.185 is a gay disease where the reality 241 00:15:12.185 --> 00:15:15.885 is more heterosexual people are transmitted than gay people from my understanding. Nowadays, 242 00:15:16.490 --> 00:15:20.190 certainly, initially, it was the gay community that was most affected. 243 00:15:21.129 --> 00:15:24.910 And, initially, the disease was called GRID, great gay related 244 00:15:25.370 --> 00:15:27.584 immune immune disease. 245 00:15:29.485 --> 00:15:32.865 But nowadays, as you quite rightly say, John, the the 246 00:15:33.565 --> 00:15:37.069 there is more than 50 percent of the HIV community 247 00:15:37.529 --> 00:15:40.990 that is not gay. The most 248 00:15:41.129 --> 00:15:44.685 at risk groups are, postmenopausal 249 00:15:45.145 --> 00:15:48.665 women who are at a stage in their 250 00:15:48.665 --> 00:15:52.205 life where they, widowed, separated, divorced, 251 00:15:52.700 --> 00:15:56.380 whatever, want to engage in sexual activity and think that 252 00:15:56.380 --> 00:15:59.980 because I'm postmenopausal, I don't need to use any protection because I'm not going to 253 00:15:59.980 --> 00:16:03.655 become pregnant. But then become infected with some 254 00:16:03.655 --> 00:16:07.335 other kind of disease, including HIV and AIDS. And 255 00:16:07.335 --> 00:16:11.140 and also the black African community that have, 256 00:16:12.800 --> 00:16:16.560 certain certain members of that community because of their cultural 257 00:16:16.560 --> 00:16:19.825 background, have difficulty in understanding 258 00:16:20.845 --> 00:16:24.305 that HIV and AIDS is passed through unprotected 259 00:16:24.525 --> 00:16:27.839 sex, one of the primary routes of of infection is through unprotected 260 00:16:27.899 --> 00:16:31.660 sex, but no longer came in. And 261 00:16:31.660 --> 00:16:35.235 I'm I'm pleased to say that the latest statistics from Public 262 00:16:35.235 --> 00:16:38.455 Health England in terms of of annual rates of infections 263 00:16:38.915 --> 00:16:42.535 have shown an enormous decrease over the last couple of years 264 00:16:42.860 --> 00:16:46.560 in the number of gay men being diagnosed with HIV 265 00:16:46.700 --> 00:16:50.160 in the United Kingdom. And this is primarily 266 00:16:50.380 --> 00:16:54.125 due to the introduction of PrEP, p r e p, 267 00:16:54.125 --> 00:16:57.965 which is, a a a form 268 00:16:57.965 --> 00:17:01.745 of treatment that, is part of the HIV medication 269 00:17:01.805 --> 00:17:05.630 that I and other HIV positive people take, somebody can take 270 00:17:05.630 --> 00:17:09.170 as a as a form of prevention for them to become 271 00:17:09.309 --> 00:17:12.835 HIV infected. And it has 272 00:17:12.835 --> 00:17:16.295 proved to be really successful. NHS 273 00:17:16.355 --> 00:17:20.150 England only agreed to allow this to be 274 00:17:20.150 --> 00:17:23.830 rolled out, across England, in 275 00:17:23.830 --> 00:17:27.350 the last few months. Scotland and Wales have 276 00:17:27.350 --> 00:17:31.035 provided it free for quite some time. NHS 277 00:17:31.035 --> 00:17:34.475 England had had withheld it until I settled it a few months 278 00:17:34.475 --> 00:17:37.899 ago. So PrEP is pre exposure 279 00:17:37.899 --> 00:17:41.580 prophylactics. Somebody can take that 280 00:17:41.580 --> 00:17:44.960 medication, engage in a unprotected 281 00:17:45.100 --> 00:17:48.595 sex, and be pretty confident that they 282 00:17:48.595 --> 00:17:52.115 won't become infected. So 283 00:17:52.115 --> 00:17:55.820 prophylactic, that's the barrier. That's the prevention of That's the prevention. 284 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:59.560 Yeah. Yeah. And then there's also isn't there PEP as well? Is there PEP and 285 00:17:59.560 --> 00:18:02.995 blood pressure? It's post exposure prophylactic. So if 286 00:18:02.995 --> 00:18:06.695 somebody thinks that they may have been exposed to HIV, 287 00:18:07.235 --> 00:18:11.075 if they go to A and E or some GPs or maybe some 288 00:18:11.075 --> 00:18:14.710 pharmacists within 72 hours of when they think they 289 00:18:14.710 --> 00:18:18.230 were exposed. They will be given PEP, which is a 290 00:18:18.230 --> 00:18:21.895 month's worth of the treatment, which again, 291 00:18:22.915 --> 00:18:26.215 is something like 90% successful 292 00:18:26.515 --> 00:18:29.495 in preventing, that person from becoming 293 00:18:30.530 --> 00:18:34.290 infected. So there are methods of 294 00:18:34.290 --> 00:18:37.890 of controlling. The the downside of of 295 00:18:37.890 --> 00:18:41.485 this is that whilst we have seen the number of HIV 296 00:18:41.545 --> 00:18:45.085 infections decrease enormously, the number of infections 297 00:18:45.465 --> 00:18:49.240 from, of of other, sexual 298 00:18:49.620 --> 00:18:53.160 infection STIs, sexually transmitted diseases, 299 00:18:53.700 --> 00:18:56.760 has increased astronomically. So we are seeing 300 00:18:57.085 --> 00:19:00.865 a fast increase in the number of particularly gay men 301 00:19:01.245 --> 00:19:04.850 with syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, and so on and so forth. 302 00:19:05.169 --> 00:19:08.530 All treatable conditions. None of them nowadays life 303 00:19:08.530 --> 00:19:12.289 threatening. But the message is that 304 00:19:12.289 --> 00:19:15.675 PrEP prevents HIV, doesn't prevent all 305 00:19:15.775 --> 00:19:17.635 sexually transmitted diseases. 306 00:19:20.015 --> 00:19:23.395 So in the same way you're saying that women of a certain age 307 00:19:23.930 --> 00:19:27.690 are not using barrier protection because they don't think they can 308 00:19:27.690 --> 00:19:31.370 get pregnant, gay men are now saying well I don't need to use barrier protection 309 00:19:31.370 --> 00:19:33.995 because I can't get AIDS because of PEP and PrEP' 310 00:19:35.555 --> 00:19:39.030 Jo again it's yeah it's now allowing well 311 00:19:39.190 --> 00:19:42.870 allowing the rise of these other infections which were once subdued and 312 00:19:42.870 --> 00:19:46.570 suppressed. Well did I also, I mean 313 00:19:46.630 --> 00:19:50.465 I had an HIV test for about two and a half three years ago. 314 00:19:51.005 --> 00:19:54.705 I get regular bloods as part of my transition 315 00:19:55.370 --> 00:19:59.130 the general the general identity clinic wants to monitor my hormone levels and 316 00:19:59.130 --> 00:20:02.490 things and the bloods came back with a with a I think it was a 317 00:20:02.490 --> 00:20:06.335 low lymph or no high lymphocyte count which is several 318 00:20:06.335 --> 00:20:10.174 causes, 1 steroids, 2 is cancer and 3 319 00:20:10.174 --> 00:20:13.830 could be HIV. Estrogen, for 320 00:20:13.830 --> 00:20:17.530 those who don't know, is actually a steroid Jo the doctor was fairly sure 321 00:20:17.750 --> 00:20:21.510 that it was the estrogen I was taking as part of HRT that was 322 00:20:21.510 --> 00:20:25.245 the cause. He also established that my other 323 00:20:25.245 --> 00:20:28.845 blood would have been would have had an indicator if I had some 324 00:20:28.896 --> 00:20:32.590 Joanne of some sort. So he decided as 325 00:20:32.970 --> 00:20:36.490 a complete rule it out, have an HIV test just to rule it out and 326 00:20:36.490 --> 00:20:40.325 I was negative, but what he said 327 00:20:40.325 --> 00:20:44.085 was that many people have received HIV through blood 328 00:20:44.085 --> 00:20:47.544 transfusions, there was a point in time where blood wasn't screened properly 329 00:20:48.085 --> 00:20:51.880 and that that caused, if not more than 330 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:55.480 maybe person to person transmission, would ever have done because of this 331 00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:58.695 bad blood coming from the US for some of it wasn't it? 332 00:20:59.315 --> 00:21:03.155 Well actually that that when I was diagnosed Jo it 333 00:21:03.155 --> 00:21:06.650 was 14 years ago because I was so 334 00:21:06.650 --> 00:21:10.250 unwell, the medical team tried 335 00:21:10.250 --> 00:21:13.825 to trace back how long I, before my 336 00:21:13.825 --> 00:21:17.425 diagnosis I've been infected. And they traced it back, and they said it thought 337 00:21:17.425 --> 00:21:21.240 about 13 years. Previous to 338 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:24.780 diagnosis is when I was infected. And and 339 00:21:25.080 --> 00:21:28.695 me working back in my mind, before my 340 00:21:28.695 --> 00:21:31.975 relationship with Richard. And at the point of diagnosis, Richard and I have been together 341 00:21:31.975 --> 00:21:35.415 10 years in a monogamous relationship. Only had one 342 00:21:35.415 --> 00:21:38.840 partner before that. And that 343 00:21:38.840 --> 00:21:42.600 partner, we've been we were together 5 years. A couple of 344 00:21:42.600 --> 00:21:46.315 years before he and I met, he'd been involved in a really bad car accident, 345 00:21:46.315 --> 00:21:49.455 had had to have multiple surgeries, lots of blood transfusions. 346 00:21:50.155 --> 00:21:52.655 Whilst he and I were together, he became unwell. 347 00:21:54.290 --> 00:21:58.050 And it like I did, he went and saw lots of different 348 00:21:58.050 --> 00:22:01.865 doctors and specialists, and they came back and said that they thought that what 349 00:22:01.865 --> 00:22:05.225 he was experiencing was as a result of all of the 350 00:22:05.225 --> 00:22:08.985 anesthetics he'd been given during the operations post 351 00:22:08.985 --> 00:22:12.300 accident. I now know 352 00:22:12.520 --> 00:22:16.280 and realize that the symptoms that he was showing then were 353 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:19.420 was symptoms of being infected with HIV. 354 00:22:20.755 --> 00:22:24.435 And so that's how I became infected. So he was infected through 355 00:22:24.435 --> 00:22:28.115 blood transfusions, and that's how I became infected. Of course, 356 00:22:28.115 --> 00:22:31.410 nowadays, all bluffs are screened, 357 00:22:31.870 --> 00:22:35.550 so there is absolutely no risk of being infected 358 00:22:35.550 --> 00:22:39.325 through a blood transfusion. The other way of of, 359 00:22:40.365 --> 00:22:44.205 used to be of transmitting infection is through mother to 360 00:22:44.205 --> 00:22:47.980 child infection. But nowadays, the the 361 00:22:48.220 --> 00:22:51.919 that rate of infection certainly here in the UK is very, very low 362 00:22:52.620 --> 00:22:56.365 because, all women that go to antenatal clinic are 363 00:22:56.365 --> 00:22:59.725 offered a blood test. And if 364 00:22:59.725 --> 00:23:03.550 the the test, brings back an HIV positive result, 365 00:23:03.850 --> 00:23:07.530 the mother is then put on medication, which lowers the viral, 366 00:23:07.850 --> 00:23:11.390 level in their bloodstream to the point that where the child is born, 367 00:23:11.835 --> 00:23:15.535 the child will not be infected. So, 368 00:23:15.915 --> 00:23:19.695 the primary route here in the UK of infection is still 369 00:23:20.120 --> 00:23:23.640 through, unprotected sex. The other 370 00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:26.700 route used to be through, needle sharing, 371 00:23:27.505 --> 00:23:31.345 but, Norman Fowler, who 372 00:23:31.345 --> 00:23:34.945 was the health minister at the time of that campaign that you mentioned, the icebergs 373 00:23:34.945 --> 00:23:38.640 and the tombstones, very wisely put in place the the 374 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:42.020 system of of needle banks, needle exchange places. 375 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:46.365 So now the rate of infections through intravenous 376 00:23:46.505 --> 00:23:49.325 needle sharing in the UK is very low as well. 377 00:23:53.399 --> 00:23:57.240 Yeah. We think of I mean, I 378 00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:01.025 think of the year 2000 as being almost yesterday and 379 00:24:01.025 --> 00:24:04.065 I was surprised when I watched a film the other week and, I think it 380 00:24:04.065 --> 00:24:07.445 was set in 2003 and the mobile phones they were using 381 00:24:07.899 --> 00:24:11.740 were just so alien, they're bricks. I thought I think in 382 00:24:11.740 --> 00:24:14.880 ScratchMaker in 2003 that was just kind of like the other day. 383 00:24:15.500 --> 00:24:18.935 How much the world has moved on in technology but also 384 00:24:19.475 --> 00:24:22.935 in attitudes around, not just 385 00:24:23.490 --> 00:24:27.330 being gay, trans, HIV positive, etc, the world has moved on a 386 00:24:27.330 --> 00:24:31.170 lot, rapidly accelerating this kind of inclusion message, isn't 387 00:24:31.170 --> 00:24:34.275 it? And then so you must notice a big difference just the way you're 388 00:24:34.815 --> 00:24:38.335 accepted as a gay man let alone as a as a positive gay 389 00:24:38.335 --> 00:24:41.990 man. I but certainly as a gay 390 00:24:41.990 --> 00:24:45.670 man and very kind of funny 391 00:24:45.670 --> 00:24:49.335 incident. So Richard and I decided to join a local 392 00:24:49.335 --> 00:24:52.775 gym about 5 year you can tell, obviously, from my honed physique 393 00:24:52.775 --> 00:24:56.500 that this is having a great impact. It's about 5 years ago, 394 00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:00.240 and off we went. And, on the, you know, the 395 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:04.054 menu of different memberships, they had family membership, 396 00:25:04.195 --> 00:25:07.875 so a couple could and I was all geared up in 397 00:25:07.875 --> 00:25:11.600 my head to say, actually, we are a family 398 00:25:11.600 --> 00:25:15.200 because, you know, we are a civil partner. We are a couple. We 399 00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:19.035 should have the family membership. And without a 400 00:25:19.035 --> 00:25:22.395 blink, the receptionist said, oh, are you a couple? Up or you dance family membership? 401 00:25:22.395 --> 00:25:26.095