WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.919 Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood, and I'm your host for the Inclusion 2 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:07.520 Bites podcast. In this series, I've been interviewing a number of 3 00:00:07.520 --> 00:00:11.224 amazing people and simply having a conversation around the subject of inclusion, 4 00:00:11.365 --> 00:00:15.125 belonging, and generally making the world a better place for everyone to 5 00:00:15.125 --> 00:00:18.900 thrive. If you'd like to join me in the future, then please do drop me 6 00:00:18.900 --> 00:00:20.039 a line to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. 7 00:00:22.580 --> 00:00:26.425 That's S-E-E Change Happen dot co dot uk. Of course, you can 8 00:00:26.425 --> 00:00:30.105 catch up with all of the previous shows on iTunes, Spotify, and the usual 9 00:00:30.105 --> 00:00:33.770 places. So plug in your headphones, grab a decaf, 10 00:00:33.910 --> 00:00:37.430 and let's get going. Today is 11 00:00:37.430 --> 00:00:41.055 episode 29 with the title, giving yourself 12 00:00:41.055 --> 00:00:44.815 a gold star. I have the absolute honor and privilege to be joined 13 00:00:44.815 --> 00:00:48.360 by Pam Burrows. Pam describes herself as someone who helps 14 00:00:48.360 --> 00:00:52.120 organizations manage and reduce stress, and she works 15 00:00:52.120 --> 00:00:54.699 with their teams to build their own well-being toolkit. 16 00:00:56.165 --> 00:00:59.525 When I asked Pam to describe her superpower, she said it's her 17 00:00:59.525 --> 00:01:03.230 ability to sparkle. Hello, Pam. Welcome 18 00:01:03.230 --> 00:01:06.130 to the show. Thank you, Jo. Chuffed to be here. 19 00:01:07.550 --> 00:01:10.750 Awesome. Happy New Year. I mean, where are we now? Yeah. We'll have to say 20 00:01:10.750 --> 00:01:14.255 that. We're into the, we're up to the 7th now? Well, I I 21 00:01:14.255 --> 00:01:17.455 would say if I if I haven't seen you yet, we can say happy New 22 00:01:17.455 --> 00:01:19.875 Year. Yeah. Christmas Decades Away, 23 00:01:22.210 --> 00:01:25.650 terrorist acts going on in Capitol Hill in America. The world has gone 24 00:01:25.650 --> 00:01:29.250 crazy. I really hoped we're going to see the end of the world 25 00:01:29.250 --> 00:01:32.395 unprecedented, but everything still seems to be unprecedented. 26 00:01:32.935 --> 00:01:35.915 What's going on in the world? Who knows? Yeah. It's crazy. 27 00:01:36.695 --> 00:01:40.295 It's just crazy. And as I I hope 28 00:01:40.295 --> 00:01:43.940 that after the year of Brexit, after the year of 29 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:48.295 COVID, unprecedented will be because signed in history because we're now precedent, 30 00:01:48.295 --> 00:01:52.055 we've done it all before, but no no no no all the customs 31 00:01:52.055 --> 00:01:55.815 embargos, the paperwork is there, the fact is we've now got 32 00:01:55.815 --> 00:01:56.475 an unprecedented 33 00:02:01.380 --> 00:02:05.045 unprecedented is here to stay for another year. Jo, so, 34 00:02:05.045 --> 00:02:08.425 Pam, tell me about your gold stars. Where do they come from? 35 00:02:08.965 --> 00:02:12.800 Well, they come off the Internet, actually, in a physical sense. So 36 00:02:13.020 --> 00:02:16.640 when I, in in the olden days when we were in person 37 00:02:16.780 --> 00:02:20.355 doing conferences and training courses, I would give 38 00:02:20.355 --> 00:02:23.875 everybody a little sparkly star sticker at the end of our 39 00:02:23.875 --> 00:02:27.690 session. And the idea is that, they can have gold one, or they 40 00:02:27.690 --> 00:02:30.750 can have a silver one if gold's not their color. And, 41 00:02:31.370 --> 00:02:35.105 and, basically, I tell them they can stick it where they like, and 42 00:02:35.165 --> 00:02:38.925 it's to remind them it's to remind 43 00:02:38.925 --> 00:02:42.465 them that they are a star and star stands for someone 44 00:02:42.580 --> 00:02:46.340 truly amazing. And then when they get all shy and go, 45 00:02:46.340 --> 00:02:49.860 oh, really? Then that's what the r is for. Yes. Really. 46 00:02:49.860 --> 00:02:53.405 Someone truly amazing. Yes. Really. And the 47 00:02:53.405 --> 00:02:57.005 session leading up to them getting their star sticker is 48 00:02:57.005 --> 00:03:00.705 basically me helping them to realize what they bring to the world, 49 00:03:00.920 --> 00:03:04.680 to stop undermining that and denying it and to 50 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:08.519 celebrate it because, there's there's now plenty of 51 00:03:08.519 --> 00:03:12.075 research to show that it's not just a a bit of an 52 00:03:12.075 --> 00:03:15.675 Americanism of positive thinking to recognize your 53 00:03:15.675 --> 00:03:19.330 strengths, but actually it's it's a huge plays a huge 54 00:03:19.330 --> 00:03:22.930 part in our resilience and our ability to thrive, which you're all 55 00:03:22.930 --> 00:03:26.655 about. Well, I still 56 00:03:26.655 --> 00:03:30.415 proudly got my gold star, and I snuck it on a a name Joanne, 57 00:03:30.415 --> 00:03:34.209 actually. And I remember when I saw you speak, and 58 00:03:34.830 --> 00:03:38.430 do your sort of brief session you did for the PSA 59 00:03:38.430 --> 00:03:42.245 one evening, I remember you came along with your big inflatable mallet 60 00:03:42.245 --> 00:03:45.125 and you all talked about how we we all want to beat ourselves up all 61 00:03:45.125 --> 00:03:48.965 the time, we we see the negatives in ourselves. And I seem to remember about 62 00:03:48.965 --> 00:03:51.640 3 or 4 months ago I had this incident where I was really beating myself 63 00:03:51.640 --> 00:03:55.160 up about something and that image of you with your mallet kept popping into my 64 00:03:55.160 --> 00:03:58.040 hair, my gold star, and I just thought I just gotta get over this. I 65 00:03:58.040 --> 00:04:01.555 gotta see the positives out of this, not all the negatives. And 66 00:04:02.175 --> 00:04:05.775 so that session that you did that night really inspired me and I've heard still 67 00:04:05.775 --> 00:04:09.500 carry that with me today. Oh, that's gorgeous. Thank you so much 68 00:04:09.500 --> 00:04:13.100 for sharing that. That's lovely. I think that's the thing about being a 69 00:04:13.100 --> 00:04:16.644 speaker and using props or a teacher or, you know, anybody 70 00:04:16.704 --> 00:04:20.305 using a some kind of visual. You know, if if 71 00:04:20.305 --> 00:04:24.060 there's something visual, something auditory, something that relates to 72 00:04:24.060 --> 00:04:27.900 people's emotions, then they're more likely to remember that. And I I feel very, 73 00:04:29.500 --> 00:04:33.265 passionate. It's a bit of an overused word. But my my focus 74 00:04:33.265 --> 00:04:36.885 now, especially since lockdown, is to really 75 00:04:37.345 --> 00:04:41.025 do lots and lots of things that stick with people. You 76 00:04:41.025 --> 00:04:43.990 know? So, in the past, I might have done, 77 00:04:45.729 --> 00:04:49.410 a whole day or or even series of days on stress 78 00:04:49.410 --> 00:04:53.205 reduction, but I might have done more, talking 79 00:04:53.205 --> 00:04:56.345 through with people what they could do. Whereas now, especially, 80 00:04:57.045 --> 00:05:00.600 since the the the last 10 months that we've just had, I've 81 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:03.960 been saying to people, right, let's do that now. Let's do this stress 82 00:05:03.960 --> 00:05:07.419 reduction breathing technique or visualization or 83 00:05:07.815 --> 00:05:11.655 a way of thinking, some kind of physical movements that 84 00:05:11.655 --> 00:05:15.495 change the nervous system. And and what I'm finding is 85 00:05:15.495 --> 00:05:19.240 it makes more of a difference because people might say, 86 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:23.000 oh, yes, that's a good idea. I'll try that tomorrow. And they don't. Whereas 87 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:26.755 if they actually do it in the session, feel the difference, 88 00:05:26.895 --> 00:05:30.735 they go, oh my god. I'm gonna do this again. And, so I'm 89 00:05:30.735 --> 00:05:34.035 getting, a lot more feedback now about, 90 00:05:34.860 --> 00:05:38.699 the things that people are doing differently. So I'm chuffed about that. 91 00:05:38.699 --> 00:05:42.460 And the the star, of course, is a little visual to remind people 92 00:05:42.460 --> 00:05:46.075 to to do whatever their thing was that they thought, yeah, I'm 93 00:05:46.075 --> 00:05:49.915 gonna pledge to to do that. But as you said in 94 00:05:49.915 --> 00:05:53.570 the in the introduction, Jo, for me, it's got to be a 95 00:05:53.570 --> 00:05:57.190 2 part thing. So I could go in 96 00:05:57.330 --> 00:06:00.710 and teach whole organizations to 97 00:06:00.770 --> 00:06:04.585 individually have a great toolkit for stress reduction and 98 00:06:04.585 --> 00:06:07.805 well-being. But if the organization itself structurally 99 00:06:08.425 --> 00:06:12.140 is, you know, putting too much pressure on people, not 100 00:06:12.140 --> 00:06:15.440 supporting them well enough, having unreasonable 101 00:06:15.660 --> 00:06:18.300 demands, you know, all of these things, then, 102 00:06:19.495 --> 00:06:22.955 really I'm just teaching people how to be tolerant of, 103 00:06:23.414 --> 00:06:27.230 an unsafe situation. So I like to I like to talk to the 104 00:06:27.230 --> 00:06:30.990 organisation first about what they're gonna set up with policies, procedures, 105 00:06:30.990 --> 00:06:34.690 and strategies, which enable people to 106 00:06:34.750 --> 00:06:38.324 bring their whole self to work and feel safe. When I say bring to work, 107 00:06:38.324 --> 00:06:42.005 that might be to their own dining table, but to to bring 108 00:06:42.005 --> 00:06:45.830 themselves and feel safe in that environment and, that 109 00:06:45.830 --> 00:06:49.590 they're acknowledged, respected, cared for, and, that they're, 110 00:06:49.590 --> 00:06:52.250 you know, they're not given undue pressure. 111 00:06:54.044 --> 00:06:57.805 Because it everyone reacts to stress differently or situations differently, 112 00:06:57.805 --> 00:07:01.164 so there's no one size fits all. So somebody who is coping 113 00:07:01.164 --> 00:07:04.870 well in a situation is not the same 114 00:07:04.870 --> 00:07:08.470 as somebody who is taking on anxieties, that they're 115 00:07:08.470 --> 00:07:12.315 perceiving their interactions with their with their colleagues, their boss, their 116 00:07:12.315 --> 00:07:15.995 workload in a subtly different way, aren't they? And so we can't just 117 00:07:15.995 --> 00:07:19.740 say well I'm I'm I'm not stressed, I'm okay, the work's fine, but But may 118 00:07:19.740 --> 00:07:23.260 I ask you, somebody maybe have maybe masking and covering that, won't they? Oh, yeah. 119 00:07:23.260 --> 00:07:26.915 Some people are really, really good. I've got, a little book, called 120 00:07:26.915 --> 00:07:30.755 burnout buster. And in there, I talk about 33 red flags that you're 121 00:07:30.755 --> 00:07:34.290 heading for burnout, 33 things to do about it. And one of those 122 00:07:34.290 --> 00:07:37.890 things is when you keep saying you're fine, you know, and 123 00:07:37.890 --> 00:07:41.675 especially if those who love and care about you are saying, are you 124 00:07:41.675 --> 00:07:45.134 sure you're fine? I I don't think you're fine, and you're getting 125 00:07:45.275 --> 00:07:49.115 irritated by that. That that's a huge red flag 126 00:07:49.115 --> 00:07:52.850 because, you know, one of the one of the things that we say around 127 00:07:52.990 --> 00:07:56.610 burnout and overwhelm is that people who 128 00:07:56.830 --> 00:08:00.555 finally go pop are not weak people. They're people who've 129 00:08:00.555 --> 00:08:04.075 been too strong for too long. And, and that's 130 00:08:04.075 --> 00:08:06.160 that's really key. You know, if you're 131 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:11.440 checking in with somebody, the the question needs to be, how are you 132 00:08:11.440 --> 00:08:14.914 really? You know? And to to do that, you've got to 133 00:08:14.914 --> 00:08:18.514 have, you know, if we're talking about an organization, you've got to have a culture 134 00:08:18.514 --> 00:08:22.220 of trust for people to be able to answer that honestly and not 135 00:08:22.220 --> 00:08:25.980 feel that their job's in danger or they're gonna be seen as not coping 136 00:08:25.980 --> 00:08:29.595 and not not competent. And so it's about how you 137 00:08:29.595 --> 00:08:33.195 create that culture of it's it's okay to say you're not 138 00:08:33.195 --> 00:08:36.335 okay, to to quote the phrase around mental illness. 139 00:08:36.715 --> 00:08:40.380 And, and then to to 140 00:08:40.380 --> 00:08:44.140 to have something in your organisation that you can do 141 00:08:44.140 --> 00:08:47.795 with that, you know. You can't just ask the question, have people feel safe 142 00:08:47.795 --> 00:08:51.635 enough to say, actually, Jo. I'm not okay. And then you're like, what do I 143 00:08:51.635 --> 00:08:55.075 do with that? You know? I don't actually know how to help you. So it's 144 00:08:55.075 --> 00:08:58.740 a it's about having a a whole strategy for that. But I 145 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:02.520 think the the I'm fine stuff is a real issue. 146 00:09:02.820 --> 00:09:06.275 And through lockdown, well, right since last 147 00:09:06.275 --> 00:09:10.115 March, really, I 148 00:09:10.115 --> 00:09:13.795 I defy anybody to say that they haven't, at some point, been a little 149 00:09:13.795 --> 00:09:17.540 bit stressed for whatever reason. And it's like there's 150 00:09:17.680 --> 00:09:21.140 a background You know? Even if you feel like you're coping, you're 151 00:09:21.520 --> 00:09:24.995 eating well, you're, you know, you're cutting out the alcohol, you're 152 00:09:24.995 --> 00:09:28.535 getting outside, you're, you know, kind of doing all those healthy things, 153 00:09:29.555 --> 00:09:33.230 it's likely that there's still that sense of a background of 154 00:09:33.230 --> 00:09:36.529 a of a national and international crisis. 155 00:09:37.149 --> 00:09:40.885 And so, you know, it doesn't take much to scratch beneath the surface. 156 00:09:40.885 --> 00:09:44.645 There was a few people that said to me, no, the pandemic, you know, 157 00:09:44.645 --> 00:09:48.149 I'm just getting on with things. I'm I'm okay. And then in the 158 00:09:48.149 --> 00:09:51.829 conversation, they'd say something about that they were drinking more wine than usual or 159 00:09:51.829 --> 00:09:55.670 that they weren't sleeping very well. It just made me smile really because I 160 00:09:55.670 --> 00:09:59.265 was thinking, you know, the signs are there, those little red flags 161 00:09:59.265 --> 00:10:03.025 that actually, even if it's unconscious, you're being 162 00:10:03.025 --> 00:10:06.600 affected by that. So you might be saying that you're fine, but actually you do 163 00:10:06.600 --> 00:10:10.300 need to have some strategies in place to make sure that 164 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:14.220 you are getting good sleep because that boosts the immune system and 165 00:10:14.280 --> 00:10:17.645 that you're focused on what you what you need to stay healthy. 166 00:10:19.785 --> 00:10:23.545 Yeah. For sure. Picking up on on what you're saying 167 00:10:23.545 --> 00:10:26.560 there, pre COVID, 168 00:10:27.420 --> 00:10:29.900 when you bumped into someone and said, oh, how are you? How are you doing? 169 00:10:29.900 --> 00:10:33.280 That was like a a 5 second conversation. I'm alright. You're alright. We're alright. 170 00:10:33.615 --> 00:10:36.655 But do you find now that with COVID we're jumping on a Zoom call like 171 00:10:36.655 --> 00:10:40.415 this, we're having a we're doing a podcast interview, we both spend a lot 172 00:10:40.415 --> 00:10:44.210 of time online talking to people. I'm how are you is no longer 173 00:10:44.210 --> 00:10:47.510 a 5 second conversation. It's it's become a more in-depth. People 174 00:10:47.970 --> 00:10:51.765 are willing to be more vulnerable because they don't feel so alone in this 175 00:10:51.765 --> 00:10:55.205 in this storm we're all in. We're all in different boats, but we're in the 176 00:10:55.205 --> 00:10:58.860 big same storm. So saying, no, I'm struggling is actually allowed 177 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:01.660 now, isn't it? So do you think people have got more permission to be more 178 00:11:01.660 --> 00:11:05.020 authentic about not being fine? I think Jo. And I think 179 00:11:05.020 --> 00:11:08.735 that that that's come through various Joanne. 180 00:11:09.035 --> 00:11:12.714 Like, you know, I I phoned the HMRC to talk about my 181 00:11:12.714 --> 00:11:15.810 tax, And it was a a young woman who, 182 00:11:16.530 --> 00:11:20.210 the dog started barking because Amazon had arrived, you know, and she had to 183 00:11:20.210 --> 00:11:23.190 leave the call to go and get a parcel. I'm thinking this is the HMRC, 184 00:11:23.954 --> 00:11:27.575 you know? And then I was talking to a customer on Zoom 185 00:11:27.875 --> 00:11:31.440 and, he showed me his new baby, which, I mean, that would never have 186 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.280 happened in his office, you know, where we'd normally have had a a meeting about 187 00:11:35.280 --> 00:11:38.764 his, the training I was doing for his team. And 188 00:11:38.764 --> 00:11:42.444 so, and so then I'd seen the baby. We'd had a lot of laugh. We 189 00:11:42.444 --> 00:11:46.290 feel more comfortable. And and 190 00:11:46.290 --> 00:11:49.810 that whole thing about saying that you're not okay, you know, if people can see 191 00:11:49.810 --> 00:11:53.270 each other in their home environments over video, 192 00:11:53.650 --> 00:11:57.285 I think just that in itself has has opened up a whole 193 00:11:57.285 --> 00:12:00.665 thing about people being able to, be 194 00:12:01.125 --> 00:12:04.665 comfortable with being honest about how they are. But also 195 00:12:04.805 --> 00:12:08.630 that as you just said there, we're all experiencing a 196 00:12:08.630 --> 00:12:12.310 thing. We're experiencing it differently, but it's the same thing 197 00:12:12.310 --> 00:12:15.925 that we we're being affected by. And there really is 198 00:12:15.925 --> 00:12:19.685 something about that, you know, because mostly, if you're I 199 00:12:19.685 --> 00:12:23.280 don't know. Let's say you're experiencing a relationship breakdown 200 00:12:23.660 --> 00:12:27.100 or, health problems or, you know, 201 00:12:27.100 --> 00:12:30.885 maybe a parent's gone into a care home. It's your individual 202 00:12:31.185 --> 00:12:34.945 experience and finding somebody who wants 203 00:12:34.945 --> 00:12:38.520 to listen to that, and and is gonna be the person you feel comfortable 204 00:12:38.520 --> 00:12:42.280 talking to is, you know, it's a whole different matter. But now 205 00:12:42.280 --> 00:12:46.105 we've got this commonality and, yeah, it's permission to to 206 00:12:46.105 --> 00:12:49.885 say because so many people are really struggling, 207 00:12:50.425 --> 00:12:54.105 it's it's no longer you're you're an usual person over 208 00:12:54.105 --> 00:12:57.780 here having an individual experience. You you're you're in 209 00:12:57.780 --> 00:13:01.620 this in this thing that everybody can relate to, and, and people 210 00:13:01.620 --> 00:13:05.395 are expecting you to say, actually, I'm not brilliant today. And 211 00:13:05.395 --> 00:13:09.154 and suddenly the the level of I'm fine has has changed. 212 00:13:09.154 --> 00:13:12.835 And I think it's all there's a lot of good things. I I work with, 213 00:13:13.235 --> 00:13:16.640 an organization called Harmless who work with 214 00:13:16.640 --> 00:13:20.240 people, with, issues 215 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:23.095 around self harm and suicide. And, 216 00:13:24.435 --> 00:13:28.274 they're rushed off their feet. Unbelievable amount of support 217 00:13:28.274 --> 00:13:32.089 they're having to put in. But having said that, there are some people 218 00:13:32.089 --> 00:13:35.769 experiencing severe anxiety who aren't now 219 00:13:35.769 --> 00:13:39.355 having to do the things that that ramped up that anxiety, you know, the 220 00:13:39.355 --> 00:13:42.815 social situations and, and such. So, 221 00:13:43.915 --> 00:13:47.650 yeah. But I I do think the it's much easier to speak 222 00:13:47.650 --> 00:13:50.870 about how you're feeling right now, and and and that's a good thing. 223 00:13:52.370 --> 00:13:55.935 I I started analyzing my own psyche at the moment because 224 00:13:56.635 --> 00:14:00.175 I've detected that I've become a bit of a recluse. 225 00:14:01.115 --> 00:14:04.800 I don't actively seek an opportunity to go out out of the home. 226 00:14:05.180 --> 00:14:08.700 If I actively, if we weren't going shopping to 227 00:14:08.700 --> 00:14:12.295 Sainsbury's, I wouldn't go out. And I'm not doing any 228 00:14:12.295 --> 00:14:14.774 exercise, I'm not walking up and down the road or or taking my half an 229 00:14:14.774 --> 00:14:18.295 hour, not doing anything. So I'm I'm being very conscious about the fact that I'm 230 00:14:18.295 --> 00:14:21.340 I'm kind comfortable in my own little home bubble and we only live in a 231 00:14:21.340 --> 00:14:24.860 2 bedroom flat. So it's not like we've got got a garden or any space, 232 00:14:24.860 --> 00:14:28.575 you know, our front door is into the common area. And I it 233 00:14:28.575 --> 00:14:32.035 reminded me of when I was at San Diego Zoo back in the late nineties. 234 00:14:32.735 --> 00:14:36.270 I I I saw this polar bear in its in its enclosure 235 00:14:36.330 --> 00:14:40.089 and superficially, this polar bear looked great. It it 236 00:14:40.089 --> 00:14:43.795 was a big area, lots of there's some rocks, some grass, 237 00:14:43.795 --> 00:14:47.595 a tree in there, and there was a big big, pool where 238 00:14:47.595 --> 00:14:50.360 you could dive in and it was it was you go into the pool and 239 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:53.160 shake it. Jo I I just sort of sat and watched it, oh, this polar 240 00:14:53.160 --> 00:14:56.760 bear looks like it's having a great time. But after 5 minutes, I 241 00:14:56.760 --> 00:15:00.395 realized this polar bear was doing an identical thing in 242 00:15:00.395 --> 00:15:04.235 repeat. He was walking out to the tree, rubbing his bottom on 243 00:15:04.235 --> 00:15:07.010 it in the same place. He would take 4 paces, he would then dive into 244 00:15:07.010 --> 00:15:10.690 the water. He'd push off the bottom of the of the water in the same 245 00:15:10.690 --> 00:15:14.515 place, put the same paw up and climb out, shake, 246 00:15:14.675 --> 00:15:18.215 touch the tree, back and repeat. So this was like a 15, 22nd 247 00:15:18.275 --> 00:15:21.815 repeated cycle. And most people who went into that zoo 248 00:15:22.160 --> 00:15:24.959 would have just seen, ah, happy polar bear, but it's only the fact that I 249 00:15:24.959 --> 00:15:28.480 stood there and watched this polar bear for 10 minutes and I thought, 250 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:32.295 wow. And so I'm starting to feel that polar bear syndrome now. I'm getting 251 00:15:32.295 --> 00:15:35.894 out of bed. I'm sitting in this chair. I'm doing my 252 00:15:35.894 --> 00:15:39.610 podcast. I'm doing my my training, whatever I'm doing. I'm getting up at 253 00:15:39.610 --> 00:15:43.290 lunchtime, putting a can of soup in the microwave, 2 slices of toast, sitting 254 00:15:43.290 --> 00:15:47.035 back down, eating it, starting the next Zoom call. And then we'll 255 00:15:47.035 --> 00:15:49.755 sit down, have tea in the evening, we'll watch 2 or 3 hours of television, 256 00:15:49.755 --> 00:15:53.514 bit of Netflix, whatever we do. And the same happens weekends, we get 257 00:15:53.514 --> 00:15:57.200 up, Netflix, binge, maybe go shopping 258 00:15:57.340 --> 00:16:01.020 and then Monday morning we start again. And I started thinking, I'm the 259 00:16:01.020 --> 00:16:04.315 polar bear. I've become this polar bear. There's no variety in my life. I'm just 260 00:16:04.595 --> 00:16:08.315 I'm not unhappy as a person. I've I just don't have anything 261 00:16:08.315 --> 00:16:12.120 more going on. And I've I think my 2021 kind 262 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:15.639 of thought process is to now I've now I've identified that, what can I 263 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:19.399 do? How can I how can I disrupt that? Otherwise, I'm gonna be 264 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:22.235 in trouble by the end of the year if I just keep being that polar 265 00:16:22.235 --> 00:16:25.515 bear. And that's that's what I've gotta kinda work on now. Jo, I mean, do 266 00:16:25.515 --> 00:16:28.610 you have any any thoughts on that? Any advice? Well, the the very first thing 267 00:16:28.610 --> 00:16:32.210 that comes to mind is my mum. She's 83. We lost my 268 00:16:32.210 --> 00:16:35.570 dad a year ago, and, she's basically been 269 00:16:35.570 --> 00:16:39.295 grieving alone in isolation. You know, to start with, we could 270 00:16:39.295 --> 00:16:42.655 only see each other through the window. And I was doing the shopping for it 271 00:16:42.655 --> 00:16:44.595 after Levy set the door. And, 272 00:16:46.230 --> 00:16:49.750 yeah. And and she's really been struggling. And she, she 273 00:16:49.750 --> 00:16:53.365 started doing a little, diorama. So she 274 00:16:53.365 --> 00:16:57.045 put little Lego people and different things out on, 275 00:16:57.285 --> 00:17:00.805 on the sofa, and put what day it was. And it was to 276 00:17:00.884 --> 00:17:04.550 initially, it was to remind herself what day it was because it all everything became 277 00:17:04.550 --> 00:17:08.010 blursday, which is a phrase I learned yesterday that was quite cool. 278 00:17:08.070 --> 00:17:11.714 Blursday. What day is it? I have no idea. And so she 279 00:17:11.714 --> 00:17:15.335 she did that, and then she started photographing it and putting it up on Facebook 280 00:17:15.395 --> 00:17:18.994 each day. Well, it's grown into this. She's got so much 281 00:17:18.994 --> 00:17:22.079 stuff now. She's got all kinds of props and little 282 00:17:22.460 --> 00:17:26.140 little scenes. And only yesterday, she, 283 00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:30.255 for the first time, she's been doing it for nearly 200 days, I think, 284 00:17:30.255 --> 00:17:34.095 now. But the, yesterday for the first time, she 285 00:17:34.095 --> 00:17:37.830 put the exact same diorama, little little 286 00:17:37.830 --> 00:17:41.669 display out as the day before. And the phrase she put on it 287 00:17:41.669 --> 00:17:45.304 was Groundhog Day question mark. And so many people are 288 00:17:45.304 --> 00:17:49.065 like, yes. That's what it feels like. And that's what she's been struggling with 289 00:17:49.065 --> 00:17:52.700 that every day is the same. You get up, you go to the bathroom, you 290 00:17:52.700 --> 00:17:56.320 have your breakfast, you watch the same telly, but she watches morning telly 291 00:17:57.100 --> 00:18:00.655 and, and and that sense of repetitiveness. Now it's 292 00:18:00.655 --> 00:18:04.495 interesting that you say, Jo, that you're you're a happy polar bear, 293 00:18:04.815 --> 00:18:08.355 for the most part, but, I think sometimes 294 00:18:08.735 --> 00:18:12.330 the feelings of, low mood can 295 00:18:12.330 --> 00:18:15.790 creep up on us because we've we've not really 296 00:18:15.850 --> 00:18:19.595 changed that routine and and judged it up a little bit. So 297 00:18:19.595 --> 00:18:23.434 one of the things that we know about that background of 298 00:18:23.434 --> 00:18:26.815 stress is that the adrenaline and the cortisol 299 00:18:27.830 --> 00:18:31.530 that come with being on kind of medium alert all of the time, 300 00:18:32.230 --> 00:18:35.290 rising to high alert when there's some kind of news 301 00:18:35.934 --> 00:18:39.695 coming coming with the next next challenge is that 302 00:18:39.695 --> 00:18:42.355 that's that's keeping us switched on, 303 00:18:43.090 --> 00:18:46.850 and it stops us from, fully relaxing so 304 00:18:46.850 --> 00:18:50.390 that the body can do its maintenance. So what we really need 305 00:18:50.450 --> 00:18:53.995 is to, to find ways to completely switch 306 00:18:53.995 --> 00:18:57.595 off so that we switch off those stress hormones, but also to 307 00:18:57.595 --> 00:19:01.390 generate the good hormones that that lift our 308 00:19:01.390 --> 00:19:05.150 spirits and our immune system. So going back to the gold star 309 00:19:05.150 --> 00:19:08.965 thing, I have something called the CARE model, which is 310 00:19:08.965 --> 00:19:12.105 my model of well-being. And the, 311 00:19:12.645 --> 00:19:15.465 the a of the CARE model stands for acknowledge 312 00:19:16.150 --> 00:19:19.990 because what we what we know through, quite a bit of research 313 00:19:19.990 --> 00:19:22.970 now is the lift in spirit that you get 314 00:19:23.735 --> 00:19:27.575 when you start acknowledging your even little successes. 315 00:19:27.575 --> 00:19:31.130 You get a little burst of serotonin, the feel good hormone, which, 316 00:19:31.370 --> 00:19:34.830 if we don't get enough of that, there is there is, 317 00:19:35.370 --> 00:19:38.895 some science that says we get it through chocolate and cheese. So if you're if 318 00:19:38.895 --> 00:19:42.415 you're eating more chocolate and cheese than you really should or want 319 00:19:42.415 --> 00:19:45.795 to, if you want to eat less of that, then the alternative 320 00:19:46.335 --> 00:19:50.140 because the other thing we know through neuroscience is that 321 00:19:50.140 --> 00:19:53.980 it's much easier to do more of something than to try and do less of 322 00:19:53.980 --> 00:19:57.785 something. So if you say, right, I'm gonna have less chocolate today, you'll obsess about 323 00:19:57.785 --> 00:20:01.545 chocolate. Whereas if you say, I'm gonna have more fruit today or I'm gonna 324 00:20:01.545 --> 00:20:05.390 have more exercise today, then that's what you're focused on. And so 325 00:20:05.610 --> 00:20:09.370 when we when we start to acknowledge what's happened in the 326 00:20:09.370 --> 00:20:12.810 day, get a little burst of serotonin, we feel very 327 00:20:12.810 --> 00:20:16.575 satisfied, get to the end of the day and actually write those 328 00:20:16.575 --> 00:20:20.255 things down in a little notebook at the side of your bed, then you'll you'll 329 00:20:20.255 --> 00:20:24.090 actually fall asleep easier and, have better dreams 330 00:20:24.230 --> 00:20:27.990 and wake more refreshed. So fascinating stuff, 331 00:20:27.990 --> 00:20:31.735 just that very small habit of noticing the good 332 00:20:31.735 --> 00:20:35.175 stuff even if it's just, you know, I I actually put 333 00:20:35.175 --> 00:20:38.615 trousers on today or I didn't shout to 334 00:20:38.615 --> 00:20:42.370 anybody. You know? Just those little little wings that 335 00:20:42.670 --> 00:20:46.450 may may actually need, you know, a little bit of acknowledgment 336 00:20:46.590 --> 00:20:50.225 because there's there's not a huge amount to to celebrate. But the other thing 337 00:20:50.225 --> 00:20:53.825 is is, rather than thinking, well, I can't go to a 338 00:20:53.825 --> 00:20:57.490 party, I can't go to the pub, I can't meet with friends, is think, how 339 00:20:57.490 --> 00:21:01.090 can I get something similar? So I've 340 00:21:01.090 --> 00:21:04.929 done things like, I've had a weekend camping with 341 00:21:04.929 --> 00:21:07.625 friends, been to birthday parties, 342 00:21:08.565 --> 00:21:12.245 I started running online spa retreats all on 343 00:21:12.245 --> 00:21:15.960 Zoom. So it's all possible. You know, the camping trip, we all 344 00:21:16.100 --> 00:21:19.780 post well, those that could put a tent up in our gardens, had a 345 00:21:19.780 --> 00:21:23.395 bonfire, And, we were on Zoom for the for the 346 00:21:23.395 --> 00:21:26.914 most of the weekend. We did yoga together. We had a dog show. We did 347 00:21:26.914 --> 00:21:30.710 all kinds of things all on Zoom. And and don't underestimate 348 00:21:31.410 --> 00:21:35.250 the lift in your spirits when you do those things even though you're not 349 00:21:35.250 --> 00:21:38.975 in person with those people that you're close to. It does make a 350 00:21:38.975 --> 00:21:42.815 difference to have that social contact. And, and, you 351 00:21:42.815 --> 00:21:45.395 know, the fact that you're on video and you can make eye contact, 352 00:21:46.310 --> 00:21:50.070 which also gives us a little bit more chemistry for you. It 353 00:21:50.070 --> 00:21:53.510 gives us a burst of oxytocin, which is, sometimes known as the love 354 00:21:53.510 --> 00:21:56.705 drug. It gives us a little lift. So never underestimate 355 00:21:57.164 --> 00:22:01.005 the the power of doing those things. The the problem being, of course, 356 00:22:01.005 --> 00:22:04.510 if you if you're on, if you're on video calls 357 00:22:04.809 --> 00:22:08.330 for most of the day through work, then you think, oh, I can't do another 358 00:22:08.330 --> 00:22:12.105 Zoom tonight for social. But, you know, maybe don't look at the 359 00:22:12.105 --> 00:22:15.725 screen so much, but just still experience that social 360 00:22:15.785 --> 00:22:19.419 connection. It's really, really important. We we actually, 361 00:22:19.419 --> 00:22:23.019 as humans, we die without enough oxytocin, without that 362 00:22:23.019 --> 00:22:26.700 connection with another human being. So don't underestimate how much you 363 00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:30.307 might need those top ups. Yeah. Jo 364 00:22:30.335 --> 00:22:33.635 I I schedule 365 00:22:33.935 --> 00:22:37.600 Zoom calls with people not for work purposes. Well, the 366 00:22:37.600 --> 00:22:41.360 the the the the the professional colleagues or associates are people 367 00:22:41.360 --> 00:22:44.815 I know, but actually the purpose of the call really is just to have a 368 00:22:44.815 --> 00:22:47.695 laugh, have a chat. I mean, one of the reasons I love doing these podcasts 369 00:22:47.695 --> 00:22:50.360 is I get to have chats with people I haven't spoken to for a while, 370 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:53.720 we get an hour together, etcetera. And I had a good chat with, a mutual 371 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:57.480 friend of ours, Peter Edge, yesterday, and he wanted he wanted 372 00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:01.175 some help with something around, live translations and and 373 00:23:01.175 --> 00:23:04.855 subtitling. And, we we did a bit of that and then we spent the 374 00:23:04.855 --> 00:23:08.630 rest of the probably an hour and a half just having like a comedy 375 00:23:08.630 --> 00:23:11.910 double act, we were just talking about stuff. And at the end of it, we 376 00:23:11.910 --> 00:23:15.695 were laughing our heads off, we were falling around and we both said we 377 00:23:15.695 --> 00:23:18.975 should have recorded this, this is this is this is die metal material, we could 378 00:23:18.975 --> 00:23:22.735 have we could have put this out of podcast series. But it was it 379 00:23:22.735 --> 00:23:25.250 was such good fun. Like, at the end of it, I just felt really, really 380 00:23:25.250 --> 00:23:29.010 lifted. And you're so right. That's what we need. We need to make sure we 381 00:23:29.010 --> 00:23:32.674 keep projecting ourselves with the with the laugh, with the 382 00:23:32.674 --> 00:23:35.715 fun, with the with the for the face we haven't seen for a while. Does 383 00:23:35.715 --> 00:23:39.400 that bring that snap us out our polar bear 384 00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:42.200 routine, isn't it? It's just to give us something else to think about. Yeah. You're 385 00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:45.000 so right. Yeah. Absolutely. And you gotta do it on purpose because, of course, it 386 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.685 used to happen by accident. You know, you'd just have a a meeting that you 387 00:23:48.685 --> 00:23:51.325 were going to, and you'd end up having a chat with somebody over the coffee 388 00:23:51.325 --> 00:23:54.685 break that would lift your spirits. You know, things would happen that so a friend 389 00:23:54.685 --> 00:23:58.430 would invite you out or you just pop out to dinner without, you know, 390 00:23:58.430 --> 00:24:02.110 without having planned it. Let's go out to a restaurant tonight. Those things would 391 00:24:02.110 --> 00:24:05.765 happen spontaneously, but we have to do it on purpose now. And I think that's 392 00:24:05.765 --> 00:24:09.385 one of the problems if people do have issues around anxiety 393 00:24:09.765 --> 00:24:13.530 and or depression is that you kind of spiral down, you start 394 00:24:13.530 --> 00:24:17.290 to close in because you don't feel like you've got the energy or, you know, 395 00:24:17.290 --> 00:24:21.065 people often hear people say, well, who would want to spend time with me 396 00:24:21.065 --> 00:24:24.825 even on Zoom when I'm so miserable? And so 397 00:24:24.825 --> 00:24:28.630 they close down when actually the the very thing that's that's going to help us 398 00:24:28.630 --> 00:24:32.090 out of that situation is making those connections and, 399 00:24:32.549 --> 00:24:35.350 having a bit of a laugh. But, I mean, you can you can do it 400 00:24:35.350 --> 00:24:39.154 without having to connect with somebody. You know, get on YouTube and don't get drawn 401 00:24:39.154 --> 00:24:42.835