WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.439 --> 00:00:05.200 Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood, and I'm your host for 2 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:08.880 the Inclusion Bites podcast. In this series, I've interviewed a 3 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:12.559 number of amazing people who simply had a conversation around the 4 00:00:12.559 --> 00:00:16.184 subject of inclusion, belonging and generally making the 5 00:00:16.184 --> 00:00:20.025 world a better place for everyone to thrive. If you'd like to join me 6 00:00:20.025 --> 00:00:23.244 in the future, then please do drop me a line to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk, 7 00:00:26.744 --> 00:00:30.470 that's S-E-E Change Happen dot co dot uk. You 8 00:00:30.470 --> 00:00:34.250 can catch up with all of the previous shows on iTunes, Spotify, 9 00:00:34.710 --> 00:00:38.250 and the usual places. So plug in your headphones, 10 00:00:38.630 --> 00:00:41.450 grab a kneecap and let's get going. 11 00:00:42.150 --> 00:00:45.585 Today is episode 36, the 12 00:00:45.585 --> 00:00:49.025 title, Freeing Women from Being Prisoners of Their 13 00:00:49.025 --> 00:00:52.385 Pain. I have the absolute honor and privilege to be 14 00:00:52.385 --> 00:00:55.525 joined by Diksha Chakravarti. Diksha 15 00:00:55.745 --> 00:00:59.425 describes herself as someone who provides integrated well-being services for 16 00:00:59.425 --> 00:01:02.810 women. How can they manage their stress, anxiety and 17 00:01:02.810 --> 00:01:06.490 pain? When I asked Diksha to describe her superpower, she 18 00:01:06.490 --> 00:01:10.250 says she believes that she can achieve anything that she puts her 19 00:01:10.250 --> 00:01:13.710 efforts into. Hello, Diksha, welcome to the show. 20 00:01:14.075 --> 00:01:17.835 Hello, Joanne. Thank you so very much for having me 21 00:01:17.835 --> 00:01:21.354 on your podcast. I feel it's an absolute privilege to be 22 00:01:21.354 --> 00:01:25.034 here. Oh, thank you for joining me. We first met probably 23 00:01:25.034 --> 00:01:28.570 just over a year ago online, right? I produced the #TruInclusion 24 00:01:28.570 --> 00:01:31.770 Conference and you took part as part of the facilitators. So that's how we met, 25 00:01:31.770 --> 00:01:35.530 isn't it? That's correct. It was an eye opener. It 26 00:01:35.530 --> 00:01:39.050 was made me feel very happy to be part of such an 27 00:01:39.050 --> 00:01:42.835 inclusive community that were present over there. So, yeah, it was 28 00:01:42.835 --> 00:01:46.674 a wonderful event, well done. And I can't believe it's a 29 00:01:46.674 --> 00:01:50.435 whole year ago. I know. Yeah. I know. It's been a traumatic year. 30 00:01:50.435 --> 00:01:54.195 It's it's it's flowing past in some ways and it's 31 00:01:54.195 --> 00:01:58.020 dragged in other ways, you know, but I I can't say that I would 32 00:01:58.020 --> 00:02:01.540 be sad to see the path of this. No, for 33 00:02:01.540 --> 00:02:05.220 sure. So when we were talking earlier, Dixiel, we 34 00:02:05.220 --> 00:02:08.820 set the thought up to be freeing women from being prisoners of their 35 00:02:08.820 --> 00:02:11.560 pain. So tell me what that means to you. 36 00:02:12.685 --> 00:02:15.265 Okay. So Joanne, I'm using the word pain 37 00:02:16.925 --> 00:02:19.745 as a generic term to include, 38 00:02:20.925 --> 00:02:23.745 physical, emotional, mental, 39 00:02:24.285 --> 00:02:27.930 societal, spiritual pain. So 40 00:02:27.930 --> 00:02:31.470 that's how I view pain today. 41 00:02:32.810 --> 00:02:36.250 I am essentially a therapist. I have been in practice 42 00:02:36.250 --> 00:02:40.090 for 23 years. I started my life as 43 00:02:40.090 --> 00:02:43.595 a McTominay practitioner and, 44 00:02:44.014 --> 00:02:47.674 I added to my skill sets, so, you know, various different soft tissue 45 00:02:48.215 --> 00:02:51.995 techniques, different types of massage, fascial release. 46 00:02:52.694 --> 00:02:56.300 I'm also a clinical hypnotherapist and an ergonomist 47 00:02:56.600 --> 00:03:00.200 as well. So I added to my 48 00:03:00.200 --> 00:03:03.580 skill set as I went along because 49 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:08.060 I qualified and provided help that 50 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:11.995 my my cohort of clients needed me to. 51 00:03:12.855 --> 00:03:16.455 And it's when, I decided to train in, 52 00:03:16.855 --> 00:03:20.635 clinical hypnotherapy, that's that's the time I made the decision 53 00:03:20.775 --> 00:03:24.590 to provide, formally provide I've been doing 54 00:03:24.590 --> 00:03:28.350 this informally but formally provide a truly 55 00:03:28.350 --> 00:03:31.950 integrated approach to pain management. So my 56 00:03:31.950 --> 00:03:35.416 clients now come in to see me for physical pain, for anxiety and stress and 57 00:03:35.416 --> 00:03:39.071 I am able to come in to see me for physical pain, 58 00:03:39.071 --> 00:03:42.785 for anxiety and stress, and I am able to provide body work for them 59 00:03:42.785 --> 00:03:46.545 through mindfulness, we work through calming them and relaxing them. 60 00:03:46.545 --> 00:03:50.005 Using hypnotherapy, we deal with, you know, long standing PTSD 61 00:03:50.945 --> 00:03:52.565 and demons in the past. 62 00:03:54.760 --> 00:03:58.440 So and then when this the coaching part of my work is 63 00:03:58.440 --> 00:04:02.120 actually enabling them to actually find out, dig deep within 64 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:05.580 themselves and find the strength that they actually 65 00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:09.295 have but haven't been able to access due to societal 66 00:04:09.355 --> 00:04:12.495 pressures, due to family pressures. 67 00:04:13.834 --> 00:04:17.435 So for me, I see myself as a 68 00:04:17.435 --> 00:04:21.110 facilitator more than anything else because I I 69 00:04:21.110 --> 00:04:24.870 don't do, I don't use the word cure at all because I don't 70 00:04:24.870 --> 00:04:27.930 believe the cure exists. I I don't 71 00:04:28.310 --> 00:04:32.070 enable women to find their own 72 00:04:32.070 --> 00:04:35.474 strengths. So that actually means 73 00:04:35.535 --> 00:04:39.134 looking at the pain, that actually means sitting with the pain, that actually 74 00:04:39.134 --> 00:04:42.815 means honouring and embracing the pain. Because 75 00:04:42.815 --> 00:04:45.854 unless you go through this dark tunnel, Joanne, you're not gonna find the light at 76 00:04:45.854 --> 00:04:49.590 the end of it. And granted, sometimes there's long dark tunnel, 77 00:04:49.810 --> 00:04:53.410 trust me, I know, is very long and dark, but there is 78 00:04:53.410 --> 00:04:56.230 light at the end of it. So 79 00:04:57.250 --> 00:05:00.550 I feel, that if we are able 80 00:05:01.175 --> 00:05:03.915 to empower and enable women 81 00:05:05.175 --> 00:05:08.615 to get in touch with the pains that they are 82 00:05:08.615 --> 00:05:12.375 experiencing, as I said, in whichever front or however 83 00:05:12.375 --> 00:05:15.975 many fronts they are challenged by, if we can get them 84 00:05:15.975 --> 00:05:19.710 to access it, to face it, to embrace it, 85 00:05:19.710 --> 00:05:23.550 to honour it, to work through it, then they can come out 86 00:05:23.550 --> 00:05:27.390 to live their true potential and their lives. Now that 87 00:05:27.630 --> 00:05:31.455 I'm not saying that every woman should train as a consultant surgeon or go to 88 00:05:31.455 --> 00:05:35.215 become a PM of a country, not for a moment at all, but 89 00:05:35.215 --> 00:05:38.815 what I they will live their truth rather than 90 00:05:38.815 --> 00:05:41.955 living the truth that society forces upon them, 91 00:05:42.540 --> 00:05:46.300 they will live their own truths. That's what I 92 00:05:46.300 --> 00:05:50.080 mean by freeing women from being prisoners of their pain. 93 00:05:51.260 --> 00:05:53.600 So picking up on what you're saying there about 94 00:05:54.715 --> 00:05:58.315 societal pressures, I'm assuming that what 95 00:05:58.315 --> 00:06:02.095 you're implying there is the way women are often socialized 96 00:06:03.035 --> 00:06:06.815 from birth through childhood with limiting beliefs, 97 00:06:07.690 --> 00:06:11.310 expectations of being less than they can be, 98 00:06:12.090 --> 00:06:15.850 a baby machine, a wife. So 99 00:06:15.850 --> 00:06:19.450 so how how much responsibility do you think society has to play in this? It 100 00:06:19.450 --> 00:06:23.195 must be huge, isn't it? It is a a big 101 00:06:23.195 --> 00:06:26.955 responsibility. I am not 102 00:06:26.955 --> 00:06:30.555 I have to say frankly, I have to say that I have nothing against 103 00:06:30.555 --> 00:06:33.915 men, you know, I some of my very good 104 00:06:33.915 --> 00:06:37.650 friends are men as well, but there is no discounting, I don't 105 00:06:37.650 --> 00:06:40.870 think. There is no discounting that we live in a very patriarchal 106 00:06:41.010 --> 00:06:44.710 society. We live in a very hypocritical society, 107 00:06:46.130 --> 00:06:49.890 and sadly I also have to say that sometimes women are their 108 00:06:49.890 --> 00:06:53.375 own worst enemies. So in leadership 109 00:06:53.514 --> 00:06:56.735 roles, I have often heard of my clients, 110 00:06:57.035 --> 00:07:00.635 senior women coming in, and the biggest problems they have, the 111 00:07:00.635 --> 00:07:04.315 biggest obstacles they have are other women who are 112 00:07:04.315 --> 00:07:08.130 trying to keep them down as well. So if you look at it, women, 113 00:07:08.450 --> 00:07:11.810 unfortunately, if you look at the whole situation as it 114 00:07:11.810 --> 00:07:15.590 is, patriarchy has kept women 115 00:07:15.810 --> 00:07:19.330 suppressed for so long. Those who are 116 00:07:19.330 --> 00:07:23.165 coming up, they haven't got to the point, some of them, of 117 00:07:23.165 --> 00:07:26.865 course, they haven't got to the point where they feel safe 118 00:07:26.925 --> 00:07:30.765 enough where they are to actually welcome others in. So 119 00:07:30.765 --> 00:07:34.569 it's almost they're in a protective mode at the moment. What happens 120 00:07:34.569 --> 00:07:38.330 if she comes in and maybe I'm gonna have to go out? Because we are 121 00:07:38.330 --> 00:07:42.090 so new in this role, because women are so new in this role and this 122 00:07:42.090 --> 00:07:45.690 situation, I think it's a minimum forces that's 123 00:07:45.690 --> 00:07:48.430 gonna take place but hasn't yet taken place. 124 00:07:49.945 --> 00:07:53.625 Yeah. I I I've heard of these kind of studies and this is phrase, you 125 00:07:53.625 --> 00:07:57.305 know, the the crabs in the bucket syndrome where a crab tries to 126 00:07:57.305 --> 00:08:01.145 escape, all the other crabs pull it back down again. And there's 127 00:08:01.145 --> 00:08:04.990 an author called Margaret Hefferman and she wrote something at the super 128 00:08:04.990 --> 00:08:08.669 chicken where what happens is a woman in the senior leadership 129 00:08:08.669 --> 00:08:12.509 role will often peck at the the women coming up, destroying 130 00:08:12.509 --> 00:08:16.110 their self esteem and credibility and and and 131 00:08:16.110 --> 00:08:19.435 basically pull their feathers out for one of the better way of putting it. So 132 00:08:19.815 --> 00:08:23.575 as you say, women are often pushing down other women 133 00:08:23.575 --> 00:08:27.335 because they're trying to elevate themselves to compete in that world. Absolutely. And 134 00:08:27.335 --> 00:08:30.855 they will see other women as damaging their brand or damaging their 135 00:08:30.855 --> 00:08:34.620 credibility, don't they? Exactly, because they're not safe yet. They're 136 00:08:34.620 --> 00:08:37.919 not yet safe enough in the position that they are in, 137 00:08:38.299 --> 00:08:42.059 and that's where, this is coming reverting back to what 138 00:08:42.059 --> 00:08:45.660 I mean by pain and fear 139 00:08:45.660 --> 00:08:49.355 is something, Jack Canfield said, everything we want is on 140 00:08:49.355 --> 00:08:52.795 the other side of fear. Now fear, for example, with the 141 00:08:52.795 --> 00:08:56.635 pandemic right now, I mean, you know, the reason why we are 142 00:08:56.635 --> 00:08:59.995 as we are is because we are so fearful of so much that is going 143 00:08:59.995 --> 00:09:03.350 on. Some of that is true, of course, it is, but some of that is 144 00:09:03.350 --> 00:09:07.190 made believe. Some of that is generated through from our own selves listening to 145 00:09:07.190 --> 00:09:10.630 what the media has to say. So fear is 146 00:09:10.630 --> 00:09:14.090 something that completely disables us. It completely 147 00:09:14.230 --> 00:09:17.865 ruins the balance in ourselves. If we are fearful, 148 00:09:18.165 --> 00:09:21.865 we cannot be generous. They are contradictory. 149 00:09:22.884 --> 00:09:26.565 So unless we deal with the fear, and that 150 00:09:26.565 --> 00:09:30.230 is again sitting with the pain of fear, Unless we sit 151 00:09:30.230 --> 00:09:33.830 with the pain of fear and work out where is this coming 152 00:09:33.830 --> 00:09:37.670 from, why am I feeling the way that I am and 153 00:09:37.670 --> 00:09:41.350 the final step, what can I do about it? Unless we are 154 00:09:41.350 --> 00:09:45.065 able to look at our fear in a very honest way, 155 00:09:45.764 --> 00:09:49.384 our authentic self will not come out and unless our authentic 156 00:09:49.524 --> 00:09:53.065 self comes out, we cannot be confident 157 00:09:54.084 --> 00:09:57.445 because we won't be living our truth. We will be living a 158 00:09:57.445 --> 00:10:01.260 truth that is not ours. So of course, we're not gonna fit in 159 00:10:01.260 --> 00:10:03.520 there. Of course, we're not gonna fit in there. 160 00:10:05.020 --> 00:10:08.460 I love that soundbite. I'm gonna repeat it because I think it is wonderful. Everything 161 00:10:08.460 --> 00:10:12.140 we want is on the other side of fear. How 162 00:10:12.140 --> 00:10:15.715 powerful is that? Jack and feed. Yeah, Jack. Yeah, Jack. Yeah, how 163 00:10:15.715 --> 00:10:19.475 often does fear of change, fear of going for something, 164 00:10:19.475 --> 00:10:23.175 fear of grasping that opportunity, fear of being humiliated 165 00:10:23.395 --> 00:10:27.155 or rejection, how often does that stop us truly embracing 166 00:10:27.155 --> 00:10:30.780 what we could be? Absolutely. If we could get past it and that 167 00:10:30.780 --> 00:10:34.620 is a really insightful statement and I love that because I look back at 168 00:10:34.620 --> 00:10:38.460 my own life and think all the things that held me back and it's 169 00:10:38.460 --> 00:10:42.225 that. We perceive it to be a 1000 foot drop, but really it 170 00:10:42.225 --> 00:10:45.745 really is 1 inch step, isn't it? And that's that's what we've got to realize 171 00:10:45.745 --> 00:10:49.505 is that there is no big huge fall off and there are people there 172 00:10:49.505 --> 00:10:52.945 to catch and support us. Yes. We're never alone, are we? And that's that's what 173 00:10:52.945 --> 00:10:56.500 we have to remember. No. You know Joanne, 174 00:10:56.560 --> 00:10:59.939 one thing that society has always looked down upon is 175 00:11:00.800 --> 00:11:04.420 vulnerability and it's only really strong, 176 00:11:04.800 --> 00:11:08.345 authentic people who can be vulnerable, you know, I mean, 177 00:11:09.045 --> 00:11:12.805 you know, how often I'm a member, I'm having coaching by 178 00:11:12.805 --> 00:11:16.425 this phenomenal company called Heart Centred Business. 179 00:11:16.565 --> 00:11:19.545 It's run by a husband and wife team called Chris and Corinne, 180 00:11:20.910 --> 00:11:24.370 and they run this business and they they help therapists 181 00:11:25.390 --> 00:11:28.990 elevate to running practitioner businesses because as therapists, we are 182 00:11:28.990 --> 00:11:32.670 terrible. We are terrible with money, particularly. Oh my god. I 183 00:11:32.670 --> 00:11:36.415 can't charge that much. But I'm in pain I'm in pain relief. Oh my god. 184 00:11:36.415 --> 00:11:39.855 I can't charge that much. But what they are teaching us very 185 00:11:39.855 --> 00:11:43.555 successfully in a heart centered way is that you can have both. 186 00:11:43.774 --> 00:11:47.454 And that comes down to money mindset. What is your money mindset? What is 187 00:11:47.910 --> 00:11:51.670 because, you know, I grew up I grew up hearing money is bad. Everybody who 188 00:11:51.670 --> 00:11:54.709 makes money is bad because they do it in a bad way, so money is 189 00:11:54.709 --> 00:11:58.310 bad, bad, bad, bad. And so if I want to be within conditions a good 190 00:11:58.310 --> 00:12:01.130 person, I can't have money, but that's gonna make me a bad person. 191 00:12:01.910 --> 00:12:05.665 So they deal with with with all of that. And one of the 192 00:12:05.665 --> 00:12:09.345 things that they encourage you, a partial for, one of the encourage they they 193 00:12:09.345 --> 00:12:12.465 encourage us to be truly honest and stand up and say, you know what, guys? 194 00:12:12.465 --> 00:12:16.145 I'm struggling. You know what, guys? I just got an idea of time. You know, 195 00:12:16.145 --> 00:12:19.819 guys, I don't know what to do about it. Now when I started, 196 00:12:19.959 --> 00:12:23.720 I'm one of the older, students on there, most of 197 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:27.480 them are half my age, and I thought, oh my god. How can I turn 198 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:30.279 around and tell them that I'm struggling? I'm old enough to be the mother. What 199 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:34.065 kind of what? That fear that fear that 200 00:12:34.065 --> 00:12:37.745 I can't say I'm having a shit day, help 201 00:12:37.745 --> 00:12:41.345 me, asking for help is that. It's a sign of 202 00:12:41.345 --> 00:12:45.125 weakness. But if you embrace our weakness, that's when we become strong. 203 00:12:45.425 --> 00:12:49.160 That's when we become strong. I think back to my own 204 00:12:49.620 --> 00:12:53.459 history and I've probably had 3 or 4 205 00:12:53.459 --> 00:12:56.899 failed businesses for various reasons over the last 25 206 00:12:56.899 --> 00:13:00.654 years. And at the time, you feel so much 207 00:13:00.654 --> 00:13:04.355 shame of admitting you're failing, so much anxiety 208 00:13:04.654 --> 00:13:08.334 about the unknown and what comes next, so much, it's just 209 00:13:08.334 --> 00:13:12.175 that internalization of that real sense 210 00:13:12.175 --> 00:13:16.000 of failure. And I remember hanging on to one 211 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:19.680 of the businesses much longer than I should have because 212 00:13:19.680 --> 00:13:23.520 it fundamentally lost its ability to dig itself out 213 00:13:23.520 --> 00:13:26.925 of the hole it was in. And I went too far with 214 00:13:26.925 --> 00:13:30.685 it. And one less I learned is you got to 215 00:13:30.685 --> 00:13:34.285 grab these moments where 216 00:13:34.285 --> 00:13:38.125 you're anxious, you have fear and really look on the other side of it and 217 00:13:38.125 --> 00:13:41.870 go, I have to and I've got to learn that and I've learned about 218 00:13:42.649 --> 00:13:45.470 not bearing things onto the carpet, not avoiding these conversations. 219 00:13:46.089 --> 00:13:49.630 And that's a life experience we all know, isn't it? And I think, 220 00:13:49.930 --> 00:13:53.704 yeah, without giving your age away, you're probably a few years old 221 00:13:53.704 --> 00:13:56.524 older than me and I'm in my mid fifties. So, 222 00:13:57.865 --> 00:14:01.225 we learn this when we get to a certain age. We've made these mistakes. We've 223 00:14:01.225 --> 00:14:04.904 learned that the world doesn't stop turning. The sun still comes up in the 224 00:14:04.904 --> 00:14:08.620 morning and we brush ourselves down and think could be 225 00:14:08.620 --> 00:14:12.460 good again. But we we have to do that several times in our life 226 00:14:12.460 --> 00:14:16.140 before we really make sense to Styx, doesn't it? This is it and that's another 227 00:14:16.140 --> 00:14:19.980 one of the pains that I was talking about. So for me, that constitutes a 228 00:14:19.980 --> 00:14:23.485 pain, That constitutes a a pain of identity. 229 00:14:23.945 --> 00:14:27.785 That constitutes a spiritual pain. But, I mean, 230 00:14:27.785 --> 00:14:31.145 if one is fearful, like I spoke about my money mindset, if one is 231 00:14:31.145 --> 00:14:34.765 fearful of letting go, what's stopping us? 232 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:38.620 You know? What's stopping us? And just like you said, 233 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.199 if we sit down and say, why why am I holding on to this business 234 00:14:42.199 --> 00:14:45.560 that is failing? Why am I grasping? In Buddhism, it's a temple 235 00:14:45.560 --> 00:14:49.274 grasping, and grasping is a reason why we suffer. Yeah. 236 00:14:49.274 --> 00:14:52.254 You want to hold on to something like you just saw a little crunchy put. 237 00:14:52.394 --> 00:14:55.995 You're holding on to a business that has that is failing to deliver. It's 238 00:14:55.995 --> 00:14:59.055 it's past a sell by date and you're still holding on to it. 239 00:14:59.754 --> 00:15:03.420 The pain there is why. Why, 240 00:15:03.560 --> 00:15:06.940 during, are you holding on to this? And that's the work 241 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:11.080 that needs to to to happen. On in my 242 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:14.760 life I have a very dear friend. I love climbing 243 00:15:14.760 --> 00:15:17.925 mountains. I love mountains, they don't love me because every time I try and climb 244 00:15:17.925 --> 00:15:21.145 them something happens and, you know, I I sprained my ankle 245 00:15:21.605 --> 00:15:25.365 or yeah when I tried to do, Kilimanjaro in 246 00:15:25.365 --> 00:15:29.045 the morning of the night they were going to summit, they had to stretch me 247 00:15:29.045 --> 00:15:32.740 down. Not only was not 248 00:15:32.740 --> 00:15:36.500 only did I have altitude sickness, high DUTI, and bronchitis as well, 249 00:15:36.500 --> 00:15:39.800 so I was very sick, very, very sick indeed. 250 00:15:40.660 --> 00:15:44.255 But I still went on. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. 251 00:15:44.255 --> 00:15:47.715 I'm going to do this. And, Joanne, for a whole year, 252 00:15:48.495 --> 00:15:52.255 I could not forgive myself for not submitting. I could 253 00:15:52.255 --> 00:15:56.040 not forgive myself for not submitting. And a 254 00:15:56.040 --> 00:15:58.760 very dear friend of mine said to me, she said, Tisha, what is it with 255 00:15:58.760 --> 00:16:02.120 this? Because you always want to do big things. Why aren't small things 256 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:05.500 enough? And that is because 257 00:16:05.800 --> 00:16:09.400 in my life or a very large part of my life, 258 00:16:09.400 --> 00:16:13.025 Joanne, I felt I was a failure. I 259 00:16:13.025 --> 00:16:16.865 hadn't succeeded in what I had set out to 260 00:16:16.865 --> 00:16:20.005 do. I was a failure. 261 00:16:20.625 --> 00:16:23.585 And even as I speak to you right now, it makes me feel quite emotional 262 00:16:23.585 --> 00:16:27.150 because I tortured myself for years 263 00:16:27.770 --> 00:16:31.470 with thinking I'm a failure. So when one views oneself 264 00:16:31.610 --> 00:16:34.990 as a failure, one always tries to achieve 265 00:16:35.290 --> 00:16:38.750 bigger things, hoping that that's gonna plug the hole, 266 00:16:39.885 --> 00:16:43.644 but it doesn't plug the hole. You're just looking 267 00:16:43.644 --> 00:16:47.185 for the next thing to see. Yeah. But that was that. I'm still not satisfied. 268 00:16:47.644 --> 00:16:51.265 What else can I go for? You know? And 269 00:16:51.805 --> 00:16:55.400 for years, I suffered with global depression because I 270 00:16:55.400 --> 00:16:58.860 was, I was walking through treacle. I was constantly 271 00:16:59.160 --> 00:17:02.540 walking through treacle and I kept thinking 272 00:17:03.160 --> 00:17:06.920 this is going to make it okay. Yeah. I'm a course start. I do 273 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:10.605 so many courses because I'm thinking if I have more letters 274 00:17:10.605 --> 00:17:14.045 after my name, that's going to give me credibility. I'm going to become 275 00:17:14.045 --> 00:17:17.645 somebody in society. I am going to 276 00:17:17.645 --> 00:17:21.105 be respected in society, and I'm Indian. I'm a Bengali. 277 00:17:21.940 --> 00:17:25.720 Bengalis tend to be incredibly bright academic 278 00:17:25.780 --> 00:17:29.560 people. If I look around my society right now, 279 00:17:30.100 --> 00:17:33.880 you know, most Bengali, most Bengalis, 280 00:17:34.420 --> 00:17:38.155 all Bengalis are professionals in one way or the other. Yeah, 281 00:17:38.155 --> 00:17:41.995 medics galore, you walk into any hospital, you know, you find Bengali doctors, 282 00:17:41.995 --> 00:17:45.355 you know, there so achievement was 283 00:17:45.355 --> 00:17:49.115 academia. Achievement was academia. Achievement was being 284 00:17:49.115 --> 00:17:52.429 a surgeon, being a consultant, you know, being 285 00:17:52.730 --> 00:17:56.429 a, a lawyer, a partner in a big city firm, 286 00:17:57.049 --> 00:18:00.889 you know, being an accountant with a thriving practice. So that's 287 00:18:00.889 --> 00:18:04.590 what I grew up with, that's what expectations of me were 288 00:18:04.774 --> 00:18:07.514 but when these expectations sound, they deemed to circumstances, 289 00:18:08.695 --> 00:18:12.375 did not come to fruition, there I was, I'm a 290 00:18:12.375 --> 00:18:15.975 failure. I'm a failure. So, I've got to achieve big 291 00:18:15.975 --> 00:18:19.514 things in order to make myself feel good but guess what, Joanne? 292 00:18:20.010 --> 00:18:23.850 It's temporary. Mhmm. It's that fix, isn't it? 293 00:18:23.850 --> 00:18:27.530 You get that high Yes. Yeah. Yes. Many years 294 00:18:27.530 --> 00:18:31.230 ago, I I caught an episode of Oprah 295 00:18:31.370 --> 00:18:35.155 and she was talking to this guy. I don't remember the names. I just 296 00:18:35.155 --> 00:18:38.595 find his name. I just remember the details. So this guy was a dentist in 297 00:18:38.595 --> 00:18:41.415 America, a thriving dentist. 298 00:18:42.275 --> 00:18:45.955 And, he was doing very well. So 299 00:18:45.955 --> 00:18:49.715 from one small house became one big house, one big house became 2 300 00:18:49.715 --> 00:18:53.390 big house. So from 1 car became 2 cars, then became 3 301 00:18:53.390 --> 00:18:57.150 cars, then became 3 expensive cars, then became a yacht, then 302 00:18:57.150 --> 00:19:00.990 become a a private play, exquisite jewelry 303 00:19:00.990 --> 00:19:04.190 for his wife. He would choose the jewelry she would wear when they went out, 304 00:19:04.190 --> 00:19:07.935 etcetera. So she was the door. She was a 305 00:19:07.935 --> 00:19:11.555 symbol of his wealth and achievement and position in society. 306 00:19:12.575 --> 00:19:15.875 And then she left him. She had had enough. 307 00:19:16.415 --> 00:19:19.715 She left him. That was his wake up call. 308 00:19:20.429 --> 00:19:23.330 He sold everything he had. 309 00:19:24.510 --> 00:19:27.870 And when he came on Oprah, he was a prison 310 00:19:27.870 --> 00:19:31.630 dentist living with prisoners, eating their food, and he 311 00:19:31.630 --> 00:19:33.809 said, I've never been happier in my life. 312 00:19:36.995 --> 00:19:40.755 This is kind of size expectations when we're young to get 313 00:19:40.755 --> 00:19:44.455 on this conveyor belt to success Yeah. To growth. 314 00:19:44.835 --> 00:19:48.595 We want to acquire assets and property and 315 00:19:48.595 --> 00:19:52.330 status, don't we? I don't know, 316 00:19:52.330 --> 00:19:56.169 is that a patriarchal thing? Is that a female trait as well 317 00:19:56.169 --> 00:19:59.690 do you think or is it a societal pressure fed 318 00:19:59.690 --> 00:20:03.465 by, if you like, the macho success need? I 319 00:20:03.465 --> 00:20:06.985 think it's a macho success need, I think, and I 320 00:20:06.985 --> 00:20:10.585 think I could be wrong. There are there might be some 321 00:20:10.585 --> 00:20:14.265 women who particularly want that of their own of their own back, 322 00:20:14.265 --> 00:20:17.800 which is absolutely fantastic, not a problem. For 323 00:20:17.800 --> 00:20:21.480 some women, it could be like my daughters challenge me all the 324 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:25.320 time, Joanne. And my daughters actually did say to 325 00:20:25.320 --> 00:20:28.120 my is it that you don't like this is because you can't have it or 326 00:20:28.120 --> 00:20:31.605 because you can't afford it? Is it because truly you don't want it? You know, 327 00:20:31.605 --> 00:20:35.245 I love I love driving. One of my dreams is to actually 328 00:20:35.245 --> 00:20:38.845 take a 4 by 4 and go on safari on really rough terrain things. I 329 00:20:38.845 --> 00:20:42.605 love driving. So the question is, would I if I could 330 00:20:42.605 --> 00:20:46.220 afford a 4 by 4, and I guess if I wanted it badly enough, I 331 00:20:46.220 --> 00:20:50.059 could afford it. Would I want it? My point my question 332 00:20:50.059 --> 00:20:53.679 is, yes, I would want it, but not to stand outside on my drive. 333 00:20:53.980 --> 00:20:57.285 I would want to take it on safari and use it in that way. 334 00:20:58.165 --> 00:21:02.005 So coming back to whether women want it. So some people some women like 335 00:21:02.005 --> 00:21:05.285 me would want it, not because it's a status symbol. It's because they really do 336 00:21:05.285 --> 00:21:08.485 love it and they want it. And I guess a lot of men are like 337 00:21:08.485 --> 00:21:12.190 that as well. They love driving their sports cars and, you know, really enjoy 338 00:21:12.190 --> 00:21:15.950 it. So for enjoyment rather than status symbol. But, again, I 339 00:21:15.950 --> 00:21:19.790 think a large majority of women, I would say, have 340 00:21:19.790 --> 00:21:23.470 have taken on this patriarchal cloak. And 341 00:21:23.470 --> 00:21:27.255 so they feel as if they 342 00:21:27.315 --> 00:21:30.455 they need all the status symbols to be somebody 343 00:21:32.195 --> 00:21:35.635 because that's what they're grown up in, that's what they're grown I mean, you know, 344 00:21:35.635 --> 00:21:39.395 it's the the the analogy that I said with with being an 345 00:21:39.395 --> 00:21:42.620 academic. I mean, you have to be an academic to be a success. 346 00:21:42.919 --> 00:21:45.100 So for me, being an academic 347 00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:49.419 is successful. You know? 348 00:21:49.879 --> 00:21:53.595 Whether I'm clever or not, whether 349 00:21:53.595 --> 00:21:57.435 I have the ability or not, if I'm not, then 350 00:21:57.435 --> 00:22:00.955 I'm a failure because I can't be an academic. The same thing I 351 00:22:00.955 --> 00:22:04.555 think, the same thing I think applies to material 352 00:22:04.555 --> 00:22:08.330 goods as well. Yeah, I think back 353 00:22:08.470 --> 00:22:11.910 to my life 5 years ago when I sold my 354 00:22:11.910 --> 00:22:13.850 business, I gender transitioned. 355 00:22:15.910 --> 00:22:19.515 In that moment, I kind of shed a skin, shed 356 00:22:19.675 --> 00:22:23.515 everything that I kind of valued because standing on this side of 357 00:22:23.515 --> 00:22:27.355 fear and the other side of fear was the realization I 358 00:22:27.355 --> 00:22:30.955 had to let go of all of these accoutrements and 359 00:22:30.955 --> 00:22:34.570 trappings and statuses that suddenly 360 00:22:34.570 --> 00:22:38.409 became unimportant in my life and actually the really important thing 361 00:22:38.409 --> 00:22:42.250 was finding myself. That became worth more 362 00:22:42.250 --> 00:22:45.769 than everything I'd acquired over my lifetime with the exception to my 363 00:22:45.769 --> 00:22:49.174 family. Obviously, my family wasn't sacrificing 364 00:22:49.394 --> 00:22:52.534 those relationships. But I went from 365 00:22:52.995 --> 00:22:56.774 big house, status symbols, cars, 366 00:22:58.434 --> 00:23:02.134 BMWs, Audis, lots of they spent lots of money, 367 00:23:02.730 --> 00:23:06.490 and a lifestyle that was probably beyond my means most of the 368 00:23:06.490 --> 00:23:10.030 time to a much more simple life where I live on cash. 369 00:23:10.809 --> 00:23:14.510 I paid for my car outright off of a Facebook ad. 370 00:23:14.825 --> 00:23:18.505 It's a small mini convertible. It's it's a bit clunky. It's a bit 371 00:23:18.505 --> 00:23:22.265 rattly. It cost me £2,000 and it cost me about 372 00:23:22.265 --> 00:23:25.785 5, £600 a year to keep it on the road. But I love it. And 373 00:23:25.785 --> 00:23:28.845 it's so simple. And I've never had so much fun driving a car 374 00:23:29.730 --> 00:23:33.570 as that car had in years, all the BMWs I've spent 1,000 375 00:23:33.570 --> 00:23:36.630 and 1,000 on and lost huge amounts of money on depreciation. 376 00:23:37.410 --> 00:23:41.250 And so I really do appreciate now this simpler life, but it 377 00:23:41.250 --> 00:23:45.035 took me this realization that I 378 00:23:45.035 --> 00:23:48.635 had to let go. I had to all those expectations, all what 379 00:23:48.635 --> 00:23:52.315 society told me. I'd set 380 00:23:52.315 --> 00:23:56.155 myself up to be this person with my friends 381 00:23:56.155 --> 00:23:59.880 and my peer group to compete. And then I 382 00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:03.720 realized that it was a false, it was a falsehood, I didn't need it. 383 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:07.480 There was anyone who was truly my friend didn't need 384 00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:11.320 that from me. And once I let go, the people who stayed 385 00:24:11.320 --> 00:24:14.700 with me in my life are the people who saw me for me, 386 00:24:15.215 --> 00:24:18.835 not because of what I had and the stateside of the crowd and it's 387 00:24:19.135 --> 00:24:22.595 listen to you speak. Letting go of that, being a prisoner 388 00:24:23.695 --> 00:24:27.535 of my own expectations, my own forcing myself into being 389 00:24:27.535 --> 00:24:30.929 somebody I wasn't. And then once I realized that was 390 00:24:31.390 --> 00:24:34.929 the freedom of letting that go, just dropping that shell on the floor, 391 00:24:35.549 --> 00:24:36.610 emerging, okay, 392 00:24:39.710 --> 00:24:43.245 it's amazingly empowering. And I 393 00:24:43.245 --> 00:24:46.765 now find that my brain is 394 00:24:46.765 --> 00:24:50.445 simpler, my thoughts are simpler, I don't have such complication going 395 00:24:50.445 --> 00:24:53.105 on. I can see clearly now where I'm heading. 396 00:24:53.965 --> 00:24:57.410 And if I get lost, it doesn't matter. I 397 00:24:57.410 --> 00:25:01.170 just sit down, have a sandwich, get up and have a walk off somewhere 398 00:25:01.170 --> 00:25:05.010 else. And I don't have this destination where I must have this, I must 399 00:25:05.010 --> 00:25:08.690 have that, I must have that. And yeah, listen to you speak and 400 00:25:08.690 --> 00:25:12.345 that's being I was a prisoner to my needs, if you 401 00:25:12.345 --> 00:25:16.025