WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.920 --> 00:00:05.520 Hello everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood and I am your host for the 2 00:00:05.520 --> 00:00:09.094 Inclusion Bites podcast. In this series, I've interviewed a 3 00:00:09.094 --> 00:00:12.934 number of amazing people who have simply had a conversation around the 4 00:00:12.934 --> 00:00:16.690 subject of inclusion, belonging and generally making the world 5 00:00:16.690 --> 00:00:20.210 a better place for everyone to thrive. If you would like to join me in 6 00:00:20.210 --> 00:00:22.770 the future then please do drop me a line to 7 00:00:22.851 --> 00:00:24.065 jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. 8 00:00:26.605 --> 00:00:30.282 That's S-E-E Change Happen dot co dot 9 00:00:30.283 --> 00:00:33.420 uk. You can catch up with all of the previous shows on iTunes, 10 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:37.640 Spotify and the usual places. So plug in 11 00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:41.125 your headphones, grab a decaf And let's get 12 00:00:41.125 --> 00:00:44.745 going. Today is episode 44. 13 00:00:45.605 --> 00:00:49.280 The title. Losing the labels. And I have 14 00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:52.420 the absolute honour and privilege to be joined by Brianna Tucker. 15 00:00:53.120 --> 00:00:56.900 Brianna helps her clients streamline their operations through educational 16 00:00:57.505 --> 00:01:01.265 and process improvement techniques. When I asked Brianna to 17 00:01:01.265 --> 00:01:04.885 describe her superpower, she said it is her listening skills 18 00:01:05.490 --> 00:01:09.010 and ability to see through all of the fog. Hello, 19 00:01:09.010 --> 00:01:12.310 Brianna. Welcome to the show. Hi, Joanne. 20 00:01:12.755 --> 00:01:16.595 Thanks for having me on the show today. I'm really excited to 21 00:01:16.595 --> 00:01:19.975 just chat with you and just have fun. 22 00:01:21.250 --> 00:01:24.850 So where are you based? I am based in 23 00:01:25.143 --> 00:01:27.110 Jo. I am based in Wisconsin. 24 00:01:28.735 --> 00:01:32.195 Actually, I am probably 30 minutes from a major city, 25 00:01:32.255 --> 00:01:36.090 Milwaukee. And, it's absolutely beautiful 26 00:01:36.090 --> 00:01:39.850 outside, which is rare for us because it's usually cold. We don't really 27 00:01:39.850 --> 00:01:43.289 get summer. So I'm glad 28 00:01:43.289 --> 00:01:47.085 that I got to be in Milwaukee instead of where I'm actually 29 00:01:47.145 --> 00:01:50.905 living at, which is Hartford, Wisconsin. But 30 00:01:50.905 --> 00:01:53.680 in the UK, you know, we have rain, we have sun. We don't get much 31 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:57.520 sun, then we get more rain and we'd be wind. Jo, weather for us 32 00:01:57.520 --> 00:02:01.295 is is variable. And I think we've had about in the middle of our middle 33 00:02:01.295 --> 00:02:04.895 of our summer, we've had 3 days of heat. That's our summer. So we're making 34 00:02:04.895 --> 00:02:08.255 we're making a question. I could probably survive over there because it's about the same 35 00:02:08.255 --> 00:02:11.880 here in Wisconsin. Excellent. 36 00:02:11.880 --> 00:02:15.640 So when we're chatting earlier, you we we settled on the title of this podcast 37 00:02:15.640 --> 00:02:19.455 of of losing the labels. Tell me about why that's what 38 00:02:19.615 --> 00:02:22.883 why that's passionate for you. Yeah. Jo, 39 00:02:24.255 --> 00:02:27.730 my experience as a woman of colour in 40 00:02:27.730 --> 00:02:31.030 Wisconsin, has been crazy. 41 00:02:32.530 --> 00:02:36.185 There's often times Jo much pressure on us 42 00:02:37.045 --> 00:02:39.945 to act a certain way, respond a certain way, 43 00:02:40.725 --> 00:02:44.560 look a certain way. And with that, 44 00:02:44.940 --> 00:02:48.480 there's so many labels of what's good versus bad, 45 00:02:48.700 --> 00:02:51.680 what's derogatory versus what is positive. 46 00:02:53.325 --> 00:02:57.165 Even, you know, just defining what derogatory is. It's just so 47 00:02:57.165 --> 00:03:00.225 complex that it gives you this 48 00:03:01.200 --> 00:03:04.880 uneasy feeling and this anxious feeling of what am I doing 49 00:03:04.880 --> 00:03:08.720 wrong now? Because you're so afraid of what label you're going 50 00:03:08.720 --> 00:03:11.995 to get, whether it's you're ignorant or you are too aggressive 51 00:03:12.935 --> 00:03:16.394 or you're, you know, just 52 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:20.880 just all around a bad it's a bad feeling that people get 53 00:03:20.880 --> 00:03:24.320 when, you know, they have these labels and especially on black 54 00:03:24.320 --> 00:03:27.815 women here. It's very it's not easy 55 00:03:27.815 --> 00:03:31.175 to, avoid those 56 00:03:31.175 --> 00:03:34.780 those labels of angry black woman. And 57 00:03:34.780 --> 00:03:38.540 so you go through so many different trainings and 58 00:03:38.540 --> 00:03:42.015 courses on how to walk, talk, wear your 59 00:03:42.015 --> 00:03:45.695 hair, what makeup to wear, how to wear your makeup, what jewelry to 60 00:03:45.695 --> 00:03:49.535 wear, even how to enunciate your words, in 61 00:03:49.535 --> 00:03:53.300 a particular way. So, you know, it would be 62 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:57.380 life changing to have that moment to not be defined 63 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:00.865 by any one thing and just being able to be yourself 64 00:04:01.085 --> 00:04:01.585 unapologetically. 65 00:04:04.445 --> 00:04:08.100 Wow. Do you think do you think it's you said as a 66 00:04:08.100 --> 00:04:11.620 black woman, do you live in a mainly white 67 00:04:11.620 --> 00:04:15.300 district or white town? Well, the town I'm in now is 68 00:04:15.300 --> 00:04:19.144 predominantly white. Believe it or not, we have a 69 00:04:19.144 --> 00:04:22.985 lot of diversity in Milwaukee and especially Madison and probably 70 00:04:22.985 --> 00:04:26.720 even the Appleton area as well. But people don't really talk 71 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:30.560 about it because it is a predominantly white state, but 72 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:34.195 there's so many disparities with the income that the only thing people 73 00:04:34.195 --> 00:04:37.955 hear about Wisconsin is how racist we are. But 74 00:04:37.955 --> 00:04:41.015 we do have tons of diversity here. It's just, 75 00:04:41.530 --> 00:04:45.130 unfortunately, nobody knows about it because they only hear about that bad 76 00:04:45.130 --> 00:04:46.910 label of the racist state. 77 00:04:49.185 --> 00:04:52.805 I'd never heard that myself. No. I mean, that's a surprise. 78 00:04:52.865 --> 00:04:56.485 That's like everybody whenever you say you're from Milwaukee, 79 00:04:57.050 --> 00:05:00.890 there's 2 things you hear. There's black people there, and 80 00:05:00.890 --> 00:05:04.675 then you also hear, isn't that the most racist state 81 00:05:04.675 --> 00:05:08.435 and city in the world? And I'm like, well, I don't know if it's in 82 00:05:08.435 --> 00:05:12.169 the world, but I know that we are very segregated, but 83 00:05:12.169 --> 00:05:14.830 no different than any other state or city. 84 00:05:16.009 --> 00:05:19.585 So you're kind of middle America that this that in that in that 85 00:05:19.585 --> 00:05:23.305 zone. Is that right in the is that right in the red zone 86 00:05:23.745 --> 00:05:26.830 Yeah. Vertically, is it? Exactly. We're usually, 87 00:05:27.530 --> 00:05:31.370 one of the states that makes that final decision, or we have a very 88 00:05:31.370 --> 00:05:34.169 high influence on how things go, especially during, 89 00:05:35.095 --> 00:05:38.780 the presidential election. Jo 90 00:05:38.935 --> 00:05:41.975 is there is there a lot of poverty in your area, or is it a 91 00:05:41.975 --> 00:05:45.820 is it working spouse? In the city I live in now, 92 00:05:46.440 --> 00:05:50.120 there is not a lot of impoverishment. But in the city of 93 00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:53.705 Milwaukee, yeah, definitely. But it also is 94 00:05:53.705 --> 00:05:56.365 siloed to certain zip codes in certain areas. 95 00:05:57.544 --> 00:06:00.525 Like, you can literally drive down the street and see 96 00:06:01.150 --> 00:06:04.990 the transition of impoverishment to, you know, 97 00:06:04.990 --> 00:06:08.669 an affluent area just by driving down one block, you 98 00:06:08.669 --> 00:06:12.245 know, in the same direction. And that just 99 00:06:12.405 --> 00:06:15.925 those those those districts aren't just black districts or they're white areas of 100 00:06:15.925 --> 00:06:19.560 impoverished as well, are there? Not as 101 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:23.240 much, honestly. It's mainly minorities. And and that's 102 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:26.780 just not black people. That's Hispanics. And 103 00:06:27.365 --> 00:06:30.745 the the Hmong community, it's 104 00:06:30.885 --> 00:06:33.705 minorities in general. Wow. 105 00:06:35.180 --> 00:06:38.940 So you talk as a as a as a black woman intersectionally that, 106 00:06:38.940 --> 00:06:42.699 yeah, a lot going on in terms of your life and your history and your 107 00:06:42.699 --> 00:06:46.235 background. Yeah. How much do you think 108 00:06:46.455 --> 00:06:50.295 you're influenced by being black versus being a woman, or do you think there's 109 00:06:50.295 --> 00:06:53.550 there's equal oppression going on in both parts? 110 00:06:54.650 --> 00:06:58.330 Well, I guess for each person, it's 111 00:06:58.330 --> 00:07:02.085 different. For me, I can say that I've felt more 112 00:07:02.085 --> 00:07:05.845 oppression from my blackness than I have from being a 113 00:07:05.845 --> 00:07:09.610 woman. Being a woman 114 00:07:09.610 --> 00:07:12.750 has been actually a bonus in some situations because 115 00:07:13.210 --> 00:07:16.815 people want that, again, a label of being diverse. 116 00:07:16.875 --> 00:07:20.335 And so they love the fact that I am a woman, 117 00:07:20.955 --> 00:07:24.540 but my blackness intimidates them. And that's a word that's 118 00:07:24.780 --> 00:07:28.540 often used when referring to, especially, people of colour 119 00:07:28.540 --> 00:07:32.060 in general. Jo you think there's a lot of white 120 00:07:32.060 --> 00:07:35.755 fragility where people are are kinda scared of of 121 00:07:35.755 --> 00:07:39.435 of having their privilege challenged and Yeah. Threatened by the presence of black 122 00:07:39.435 --> 00:07:43.270 people. Is that Oh, yeah. Is that the culture? Well and I I can't say 123 00:07:43.270 --> 00:07:46.250 that that's necessarily the culture, but that's definitely something that 124 00:07:46.870 --> 00:07:50.570 you feel as a person of colour here in Wisconsin. 125 00:07:53.085 --> 00:07:56.421 You, you, go through 126 00:07:56.488 --> 00:08:00.125 different experiences where people blatantly tell you and it 127 00:08:00.285 --> 00:08:04.030 and show you why they 128 00:08:04.030 --> 00:08:07.810 don't like you. And usually, it's because of the colour of your skin. 129 00:08:10.097 --> 00:08:13.685 Jo it's not not subtle racism. It's overt and in your 130 00:08:13.685 --> 00:08:17.450 face. Overt. Yeah. I have gone on interviews 131 00:08:17.670 --> 00:08:21.510 in which the managers have called me back 132 00:08:21.510 --> 00:08:24.890 after the interview and told me, we don't hire your kind here. 133 00:08:27.944 --> 00:08:31.784 So, yeah, it's it's blatant. It's 134 00:08:31.784 --> 00:08:35.470 not covered up in any way, shape, or form. They are 135 00:08:35.470 --> 00:08:39.070 very direct. And it depends on the company too. 136 00:08:39.070 --> 00:08:42.290 Right? Like, you know, that's not the experience with everything, but 137 00:08:43.235 --> 00:08:46.835 in most cases, for myself, I've had 138 00:08:46.835 --> 00:08:50.595 people blatantly tell me or even when I went to college, I'll never 139 00:08:50.595 --> 00:08:54.400 forget, my advisor told me 140 00:08:54.460 --> 00:08:58.220 that he was not going to waste his time on me 141 00:08:58.220 --> 00:09:02.004 because I was a black female, and the only 142 00:09:02.004 --> 00:09:04.964 thing that was gonna happen is I was gonna drop out and have a whole 143 00:09:04.964 --> 00:09:08.470 bunch of babies and lay on my back. So he was 144 00:09:08.470 --> 00:09:12.149 wasting his time by trying to encourage me to become an 145 00:09:12.149 --> 00:09:15.745 engineer. So, yeah, it's 146 00:09:16.045 --> 00:09:19.645 blatant. It's raw and direct. And so if you don't have 147 00:09:19.645 --> 00:09:22.600 tough skin, it'll kill you 148 00:09:23.220 --> 00:09:26.900 emotionally. Is this is this 2020? This is not Rosa Parks. This is 149 00:09:26.900 --> 00:09:30.525 not 1950 show. No. Exactly. This this shit 150 00:09:30.525 --> 00:09:33.425 still happens? Yes. Wow. Yes. 151 00:09:35.405 --> 00:09:38.930 I mean, when we talk about racism in the UK, a lot of it is 152 00:09:38.930 --> 00:09:42.610 more systemic and structural rather than in your face. I'm not 153 00:09:42.610 --> 00:09:46.264 saying in your face doesn't happen. Right. But it doesn't happen to the 154 00:09:46.264 --> 00:09:49.865 same extent. You know, I'm I'm completely blown away by the 155 00:09:49.865 --> 00:09:53.485 over experience you've had. Oh, yeah. Or even 156 00:09:54.570 --> 00:09:57.390 another experience for me that is, like, 157 00:09:58.650 --> 00:10:01.950 I guess, ingrained and burned into my memory 158 00:10:02.010 --> 00:10:05.524 is when Barack Obama got elected the first time. 159 00:10:06.704 --> 00:10:10.550 There was a group of white supremacists driving next to me, 160 00:10:10.950 --> 00:10:14.550 as I was on my way to visit a friend to celebrate, you know, that 161 00:10:14.550 --> 00:10:18.205 Barack Obama had won the election because that was a huge deal here in 162 00:10:18.205 --> 00:10:20.625 the United States or just anywhere in general. 163 00:10:22.205 --> 00:10:25.965 And the cops helped the white supremacists try to tip 164 00:10:25.965 --> 00:10:29.430 over my car. And 165 00:10:29.570 --> 00:10:32.870 I I my car actually did tip over on 2 wheels, 166 00:10:33.490 --> 00:10:37.145 but thankfully, I don't know if it was the wind or whatever, but it 167 00:10:37.145 --> 00:10:40.985 knocked me back onto all fours and I was able to speed up 168 00:10:40.985 --> 00:10:44.580 enough that I could kinda disguise myself in traffic. 169 00:10:45.040 --> 00:10:48.740 And that's the only reason why I'm still here. But it's 170 00:10:48.959 --> 00:10:52.495 blatant. It's not it's not 171 00:10:52.495 --> 00:10:56.015 hidden at all. There's no buffer in most 172 00:10:56.015 --> 00:10:59.615 cases. I'm really struggling to 173 00:10:59.615 --> 00:11:03.389 find words. This is this is 174 00:11:03.389 --> 00:11:07.230 a new concept to me. I I mean, you hear about 175 00:11:07.230 --> 00:11:10.965 it. You see the press, especially in the in the 176 00:11:10.965 --> 00:11:14.805 wake of George Floyd's murder and some of the riots, some 177 00:11:14.805 --> 00:11:17.925 of the was it the Tulsa? I saw some stuff in Tulsa and the massacre 178 00:11:17.925 --> 00:11:21.640 there. And I've never heard a conversation with 179 00:11:21.640 --> 00:11:25.080 somebody who is telling me like it is for 180 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:28.495 them. This is eye opening and ear 181 00:11:28.495 --> 00:11:32.335 opening and Oh, thank you. It's it's incredible. I mean, 182 00:11:32.335 --> 00:11:35.395 I don't mean that in a it's incredible how 183 00:11:36.920 --> 00:11:40.380 how powerful that is. And Yeah. And 184 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:44.435 how I think coming from middle class 185 00:11:44.894 --> 00:11:48.574 United Kingdom, we're so buffered from this experience that you have, and 186 00:11:48.574 --> 00:11:52.220 it's just to us, it's kind of TV and Hollywood. Right. But 187 00:11:52.220 --> 00:11:55.900 it's real, isn't it? Yeah. It's very real. I 188 00:11:55.900 --> 00:11:58.400 mean, like I said in the beginning, 189 00:11:59.875 --> 00:12:03.555 there is an immense amount of pressure and I 190 00:12:03.555 --> 00:12:06.295 can say that as, you know, just from my own experience, 191 00:12:08.870 --> 00:12:12.390 where you are constantly living in a state of survival 192 00:12:12.390 --> 00:12:16.230 mode, where you're trying to figure out, okay, what do I do? Where do I 193 00:12:16.230 --> 00:12:19.895 go? How do I get there? Do I travel by myself, 194 00:12:19.955 --> 00:12:23.795 or do I have to travel with other people? And what kinds of other people 195 00:12:23.795 --> 00:12:27.630 am I traveling with? Because I can't have too many white people, otherwise, they 196 00:12:27.630 --> 00:12:31.250 look suspicious. And I can't have too many black people because that looks suspicious. 197 00:12:31.709 --> 00:12:35.245 So I have to have, like, a ratio of people 198 00:12:35.245 --> 00:12:38.845 around me that looks diverse so that I'm safe. And even 199 00:12:38.845 --> 00:12:42.465 then, I'm still not safe because if I say something that 200 00:12:42.930 --> 00:12:46.290 feels or can be perceived as aggressive or 201 00:12:46.290 --> 00:12:49.545 intimidating, I still could lose my life. 202 00:12:51.385 --> 00:12:54.985 You say, if you're with too many white people, that's also not safe? 203 00:12:54.985 --> 00:12:58.110 That's also not safe. Really? 204 00:12:59.050 --> 00:13:02.750 Because it depends on, 1, who the white people are, 205 00:13:02.890 --> 00:13:06.545 where we're going, and in some, like, 206 00:13:06.545 --> 00:13:10.385 I've had instances where, because I went to a I had 207 00:13:10.385 --> 00:13:14.190 a very unique experience growing up. My mother, 208 00:13:15.209 --> 00:13:18.889 is an amazing person and she was a teacher in the public 209 00:13:18.889 --> 00:13:22.635 school system for Milwaukee. And she placed my 210 00:13:22.635 --> 00:13:26.395 brother and I in private schools. And Jo, when I went 211 00:13:26.395 --> 00:13:29.960 to high school, it was a predominantly white, 212 00:13:30.020 --> 00:13:33.720 affluent high school. And here I am living in impoverishment. 213 00:13:33.920 --> 00:13:37.375 Jo, I got to see both worlds firsthand. 214 00:13:38.555 --> 00:13:41.995 And I will never forget the day that we, which 215 00:13:41.995 --> 00:13:45.580 was bad on my part, but I snuck out 216 00:13:45.640 --> 00:13:49.180 with my friends and we went to lunch off campus. 217 00:13:50.925 --> 00:13:54.524 And, we got stopped by the cops and the 218 00:13:54.524 --> 00:13:58.180 cops pulled me out of the car. And 219 00:13:58.180 --> 00:14:01.860 they told me that I don't belong with my 220 00:14:01.860 --> 00:14:05.460 friends. And Jo, they tried to put me in the 221 00:14:05.460 --> 00:14:09.204 police car and luckily, one of my good friends was 222 00:14:09.204 --> 00:14:12.584 like, Jo, she has to go back to school. She goes to school with us. 223 00:14:12.940 --> 00:14:16.779 And I had to show them my ID card just to show them that 224 00:14:16.779 --> 00:14:20.540 I really did go to that high school because most people know that 225 00:14:20.540 --> 00:14:24.175 that's a very affluent high school. And once I 226 00:14:24.175 --> 00:14:27.935 showed him my ID card, he was like, Yeah, just be safer 227 00:14:27.935 --> 00:14:31.780 next time. And then, I got back in the car and we went 228 00:14:31.780 --> 00:14:35.160 back to school. So, yeah, it's 229 00:14:35.700 --> 00:14:38.665 very real. It's something that you 230 00:14:40.005 --> 00:14:43.845 I don't know that a lot of people think of because as a 231 00:14:43.845 --> 00:14:47.639 woman of colour, it's something that we don't usually talk about. You just kinda 232 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:51.240 live it and put all these rules in your head 233 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:54.975 of what should I do, what shouldn't I do. And 234 00:14:54.975 --> 00:14:58.815 hope and pray that it that'll keep you safe to see the next day. 235 00:14:58.815 --> 00:15:02.275 But there's no there's no actual 236 00:15:03.130 --> 00:15:06.650 confirmation that that will, you know, because you do have 237 00:15:06.650 --> 00:15:10.330 situations like Breonna Taylor. And that hit me harder 238 00:15:10.330 --> 00:15:14.165 than anything because I'm like, Breonna Taylor is very close to 239 00:15:14.165 --> 00:15:18.005 the name Joanne Tucker. And how hard is 240 00:15:18.005 --> 00:15:21.625 that to know that even in my own home, I might not be safe? 241 00:15:22.149 --> 00:15:25.610 And that's the one place that I'm supposed to feel safe. 242 00:15:26.709 --> 00:15:30.285 And here I am living Joanne experience where I 243 00:15:30.585 --> 00:15:34.285 am consistently thinking, praying 244 00:15:35.065 --> 00:15:38.430 and just being 245 00:15:38.430 --> 00:15:42.190 strategic all day, every day to make sure that I 246 00:15:42.190 --> 00:15:45.824 don't do anything that may appear aggressive, 247 00:15:46.045 --> 00:15:49.725 rude, or too ethnic or urban 248 00:15:49.725 --> 00:15:53.459 is another phrase that they use here. Just so that I could make it to 249 00:15:53.459 --> 00:15:56.760 see the next day and I can see my family and my loved ones. 250 00:15:57.220 --> 00:15:59.800 So it's very real and 251 00:16:00.695 --> 00:16:02.155 powerful even today. 252 00:16:05.255 --> 00:16:07.995 So a random knock at the door at night 253 00:16:09.089 --> 00:16:12.790 must have Freaks me the hell out. Yeah. Freaks me out. 254 00:16:13.329 --> 00:16:16.149 So you don't feel safe in your home? You don't feel safe in your car? 255 00:16:16.295 --> 00:16:19.035 No. You didn't feel safe on the street? You didn't feel safe in the shop? 256 00:16:19.495 --> 00:16:22.635 No. And I I can't tell you, 257 00:16:23.175 --> 00:16:26.040 how many times. And actually, 258 00:16:27.780 --> 00:16:31.140 it's so bad to the point where you don't even acknowledge 259 00:16:31.140 --> 00:16:34.915 it yourself until someone else sees it. Because 260 00:16:34.915 --> 00:16:38.515 I was actually shopping with a good friend of 261 00:16:38.515 --> 00:16:40.535 mine and she's white. 262 00:16:41.875 --> 00:16:45.459 And we were at a store, 263 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:50.580 and the store clerks consistently 264 00:16:50.959 --> 00:16:54.355 followed me around. And I'm so used to it that it 265 00:16:54.355 --> 00:16:57.955 didn't bother me, but it bothered my friend because 266 00:16:57.955 --> 00:17:01.750 she was like, hey, what's what's going on? Why is this happening? 267 00:17:01.750 --> 00:17:04.890 And I'm like, do you not see my skin? 268 00:17:05.510 --> 00:17:09.164 Do you not see what they see? They 269 00:17:09.164 --> 00:17:12.765 think I'm gonna steal. They think I'm going to do 270 00:17:12.765 --> 00:17:15.744 something or destroy something because there's such 271 00:17:16.159 --> 00:17:19.919 negative inner or negative images of people of 272 00:17:19.919 --> 00:17:23.575 colour here that they don't trust us to 273 00:17:23.575 --> 00:17:27.335 just come into a store and shop. And that 274 00:17:27.335 --> 00:17:30.695 person consistently followed me, and then they called for 275 00:17:30.695 --> 00:17:34.330 the casual cloth 276 00:17:34.950 --> 00:17:38.390 security and police officer to follow me until we got out of the 277 00:17:38.390 --> 00:17:42.225 store. So it's all day every 278 00:17:42.225 --> 00:17:45.605 day to the point where you just do stuff 279 00:17:45.985 --> 00:17:48.485 naturally. It's not even a second thought anymore. 280 00:17:50.670 --> 00:17:53.410 This is so ingrained in the white mentality 281 00:17:55.470 --> 00:17:59.095 that white is good and black is bad is is ingrained at the 282 00:17:59.095 --> 00:18:02.455 core, isn't it? Yeah. This is not a this is not like a 283 00:18:02.455 --> 00:18:06.240 casual thing. This is like No. A real deep held belief Yeah. 284 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:10.080 They are better. You are you are worse. Yeah. And like I said, 285 00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:13.914 I can't even say it's just black, unfortunately. It's anything 286 00:18:13.914 --> 00:18:17.674 different. Hispanic or Chinese. Anything different. Far east. 287 00:18:17.674 --> 00:18:20.575 Yeah. Anything different. 288 00:18:22.260 --> 00:18:25.640 So what about other communities? The LGBT 289 00:18:25.780 --> 00:18:28.975 community presumably is is different, is it? Yep. 290 00:18:30.075 --> 00:18:33.775 And here, that's, you know, you have certain conservative 291 00:18:34.955 --> 00:18:38.590 cities that that's not okay. You don't openly 292 00:18:39.130 --> 00:18:42.649 express your love to someone if you are within the 293 00:18:42.649 --> 00:18:46.110 LGBTQ community in certain cities because 294 00:18:46.914 --> 00:18:49.655 they will let you know that that's not 295 00:18:50.595 --> 00:18:54.135 appropriate according to them. So, 296 00:18:54.660 --> 00:18:58.500 yeah, it's anything different. Being a woman and 297 00:18:58.500 --> 00:19:02.260 being gay or being trans is, like, 298 00:19:02.260 --> 00:19:05.945 what that is I I I don't 299 00:19:05.945 --> 00:19:08.445 even know if I have the words of how much 300 00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:14.180 anxiety that that brings to me 301 00:19:14.560 --> 00:19:17.540 just thinking about what that person may go through. 302 00:19:18.015 --> 00:19:21.855 Because especially when it comes to being someone that might be trans 303 00:19:21.855 --> 00:19:25.320 or gay, men and women get 304 00:19:25.320 --> 00:19:28.860 that horribly. Like, they're isolated. They 305 00:19:29.320 --> 00:19:32.700 are spoken down to and just 306 00:19:33.024 --> 00:19:36.625 ridiculed and they experience so much so 307 00:19:36.625 --> 00:19:40.304 much hardship just in general because that's not something that 308 00:19:40.304 --> 00:19:42.644 you are allowed to do. It's very conservative. 309 00:19:45.970 --> 00:19:49.649 So the people that are there that you believe to protect you, the 310 00:19:49.649 --> 00:19:53.085 government, the state, the police, 311 00:19:53.385 --> 00:19:56.985 they're they're not they're they're they're institutionally part of the problem, aren't 312 00:19:56.985 --> 00:20:00.730 they? They're there. Yeah. Like, Jo. I I 313 00:20:00.790 --> 00:20:04.470 rely and I'm sure I can save that for at 314 00:20:04.470 --> 00:20:08.225 least a lot of the people that I know. We rely on each other. 315 00:20:08.925 --> 00:20:12.685 I've my first mind would never be to call the cops 316 00:20:12.685 --> 00:20:15.990 if I was in a a bad situation. It would be to call certain 317 00:20:16.130 --> 00:20:19.970 relatives or, you know, my mom or certain friends 318 00:20:19.970 --> 00:20:23.615 that I have. I would never call the police first. They 319 00:20:23.615 --> 00:20:26.035 would be the probably the last people that I would call. 320 00:20:27.775 --> 00:20:31.530 And even with lawyers, you know, my brother, unfortunately, he 321 00:20:31.530 --> 00:20:34.890 had a bad experience with lawyers where the lawyer was just like, hey, you're gonna 322 00:20:34.890 --> 00:20:38.565 go to jail either way, so just take the plea. You know, that's 323 00:20:38.565 --> 00:20:41.945 a very real experience. And so, 324 00:20:43.285 --> 00:20:47.090 no, you you just don't trust any government officials 325 00:20:47.090 --> 00:20:50.230 or any people that are within government because it's 326 00:20:51.730 --> 00:20:55.305 a pattern of, hey, you're 327 00:20:55.305 --> 00:20:58.685 not actually going to help me. You're only going to help yourself. 328 00:21:00.560 --> 00:21:04.400 That's a white judge, a white jury, white lawyers. In 329 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.240 lost cases. Yeah. The white press have already found you 330 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.305 guilty? Yep. Exactly. 331 00:21:14.085 --> 00:21:17.545 This sounds like a a story out of the 1800, 332 00:21:18.510 --> 00:21:21.170 not a 2020 story. This this is 333 00:21:22.510 --> 00:21:25.310 I mean, I I had a belief that at least things were better than they 334 00:21:25.310 --> 00:21:28.955 were. This sounds like Jo progress has been made in decades. No. In 335 00:21:28.955 --> 00:21:32.575 fact, worse. No. Yeah. It it's 336 00:21:34.530 --> 00:21:38.290 I will say, we saw a huge shift here 337 00:21:38.290 --> 00:21:41.825 in the United States, you know. 338 00:21:41.825 --> 00:21:44.965 And it doesn't mean by any means that Trump 339 00:21:45.265 --> 00:21:48.785 influenced any of those things. But during his election 340 00:21:48.785 --> 00:21:52.549 time, people became more aggressive. Whereas prior 341 00:21:52.549 --> 00:21:56.250 to that, and actually, I would say even with Barack Obama 342 00:21:56.309 --> 00:21:59.955 with how many threats he had to his life between 343 00:21:59.955 --> 00:22:03.655 those two presidents, we saw a huge influx 344 00:22:03.715 --> 00:22:07.550 of, blatant racism being increased 345 00:22:07.610 --> 00:22:11.450 opposed to suppressed. And, the way 346 00:22:11.450 --> 00:22:15.154 in the violence, the acts of violence is crazy. 347 00:22:15.154 --> 00:22:18.674 Like, it it's not necessarily that it didn't happen before those 2 348 00:22:18.674 --> 00:22:22.330 presidents, but it definitely got worse during 349 00:22:22.330 --> 00:22:25.690 those 2 those 3 terms or whatever. 350 00:22:25.690 --> 00:22:29.385 So, yeah, it just So it it 351 00:22:29.385 --> 00:22:33.225 prodded that white fragility and and and gave them a a 352 00:22:33.225 --> 00:22:37.040 common reason to fight back against the 353 00:22:37.040 --> 00:22:40.820 rising of black people or something. Is that is that how it seemed? Yeah. 354 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:45.040 I'm How dare black people have have rights? How dare black people dare to have 355 00:22:45.040 --> 00:22:48.335 a president? Well and and again, it wasn't 356 00:22:48.395 --> 00:22:51.455 just black people. It was how dare, 357 00:22:52.795 --> 00:22:56.409 them legalize different, you know, the 358 00:22:56.409 --> 00:23:00.029 marriage of 2 same sex couples or, 359 00:23:00.250 --> 00:23:03.705 you know, how dare they allow different 360 00:23:03.705 --> 00:23:07.405 things to occur that we don't like? If it's not a conservative 361 00:23:07.625 --> 00:23:11.465 thing, how dare they? We don't like that. We want it 362 00:23:11.465 --> 00:23:15.289 to be conservative. Hence, this sort of demonization 363 00:23:15.429 --> 00:23:18.970 of liberal, any anything that is liberal or progressive 364 00:23:19.270 --> 00:23:22.775 seen as anti church, anti Christian, 365 00:23:23.075 --> 00:23:25.895 anti family values. Yep. Exactly. 366 00:23:27.690 --> 00:23:31.230 Exactly. But but your community have a faith, a religion, 367 00:23:31.370 --> 00:23:34.590 family values. Yeah. You you don't 368 00:23:35.904 --> 00:23:39.284 ostracize people who are different from your faith, do you? You you Well, 369 00:23:39.745 --> 00:23:43.505 I will say that I was raised in a Christian house, so my 370 00:23:43.505 --> 00:23:47.169 father was actually a minister. Jo I was 371 00:23:47.169 --> 00:23:50.870 a preacher's kid, but I 372 00:23:51.250 --> 00:23:54.230 I actually ended up growing up to become spiritual. 373 00:23:55.215 --> 00:23:58.815 I don't identify within the Christian community anymore just because I 374 00:23:58.815 --> 00:24:02.575 didn't feel comfortable ostracizing people that didn't look like 375 00:24:02.575 --> 00:24:06.210 me, and especially, people that identified 376 00:24:06.210 --> 00:24:09.970 within the LGBTQ community because my experience in 377 00:24:10.050 --> 00:24:13.865 was that people that were within that community, they were some 378 00:24:13.865 --> 00:24:17.005 of the greatest people. And I couldn't imagine 379 00:24:17.705 --> 00:24:21.240 how a God that I believe in would 380 00:24:21.539 --> 00:24:24.980 ostracize them and choose me, even if I 381 00:24:24.980 --> 00:24:28.794 was, you know, the worst person in the world, but they were 382 00:24:28.794 --> 00:24:32.635 the greatest person in the world. I couldn't make that connection. I 383 00:24:32.635 --> 00:24:35.830 couldn't understand how that could happen. So 384 00:24:36.529 --> 00:24:40.370 I I still obviously, you know, know a lot about the Christian faith, 385 00:24:40.370 --> 00:24:44.115 the Catholic faith, because I grew up in Catholic schools. But 386 00:24:44.115 --> 00:24:47.955 myself, personally, I identify as spiritual just because 387 00:24:47.955 --> 00:24:51.580 I couldn't I I truly took 388 00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:55.480 love my neighbor as myself, literal. I I would 389 00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:59.240 love myself unconditionally. So I the only thing I can do is love 390 00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:03.065 everybody else that same way and show them that same respect. And 391 00:25:03.065 --> 00:25:04.845 especially with some of my experiences, 392 00:25:06.585 --> 00:25:10.039 if that's my story and every person is an 393 00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:13.639 individual book Joanne an individual story, I 394 00:25:13.639 --> 00:25:16.860 don't know what their story is. I can only see the cover. 395 00:25:17.080 --> 00:25:20.885 So I I don't wanna do 396 00:25:20.885 --> 00:25:24.725 anything that's disrespectful or hurtful or 397 00:25:24.725 --> 00:25:28.480 that ostracizes other people, especially because I don't 398 00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:32.240 know their story. I don't know what happened to them in their, you know, 399 00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:35.975 previous life or in the past. So I 400 00:25:35.975 --> 00:25:39.675 always that's just how I chose to live my life is 401 00:25:39.735 --> 00:25:43.450