Joanne Lockwood: Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood, and I am your host for the
Joanne Lockwood: Inclusion Bites podcast. In this series, I have interviewed a number
Joanne Lockwood: of amazing people and simply had a conversation around the subject of
Joanne Lockwood: inclusion, belonging and generally making the world a better
Joanne Lockwood: place for everyone to thrive. To join me in the future, then
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Joanne Lockwood: Today. It's episode 73 with the title You've
Joanne Lockwood: Seven Seconds, Make Them Count. And I have the absolute
Joanne Lockwood: honour and privilege to welcome Sylvie di Giusto. Sylvie describes
Joanne Lockwood: herself as someone who helps professionals around the
Joanne Lockwood: world understand what their first and lasting impression
Joanne Lockwood: says about them and how it impacts the way they perceive
Joanne Lockwood: themselves. When I asked Sylvie to describe her superpower,
Joanne Lockwood: she said in her work, it's substance, significance and
Joanne Lockwood: creativity, and at home, empathy, happiness
Joanne Lockwood: and responsibility. Hello, Sylvie, welcome
Joanne Lockwood: to the show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so
Sylvie di Giusto: thrilled and excited to be with you. I've been looking forward to this
Joanne Lockwood: as well since we met a few weeks back, that conference in Dublin. It's
Joanne Lockwood: been great to have you finally here. So,
Joanne Lockwood: Sylvie, tell me, You've Seven
Joanne Lockwood: Seconds, how do we make them count?
Sylvie di Giusto: Well, let me start with an example, one that you actually just mentioned. A
Sylvie di Giusto: few weeks ago, I had the pleasure to join a conference in
Sylvie di Giusto: Dublin where some of the most successful speakers from around the world
Sylvie di Giusto: gather to learn. And just imagine me walking
Sylvie di Giusto: into this room where there are around 300 people,
Sylvie di Giusto: and instantly, within the first seconds,
Sylvie di Giusto: somebody in that huge crowd stood out to me. I
Sylvie di Giusto: instantly saw her, noticed her, wanted to know
Sylvie di Giusto: more about her, wanted to get to know her, wanted
Sylvie di Giusto: to feel out that person because she stood out. And guess
Sylvie di Giusto: what? That was you, Joanne. And so you made your 7
Sylvie di Giusto: seconds definitely count, because we know
Sylvie di Giusto: that it has nothing to do with the fact if you are a good human
Sylvie di Giusto: being, a bad human being. We walk into meetings at
Sylvie di Giusto: work, we walk into meetings with clients
Sylvie di Giusto: and people instantly, instantly kind
Sylvie di Giusto: of judge you, like it or not. We make assumptions. And in the
Sylvie di Giusto: best case, those are good assumptions, like I had about June. And I
Sylvie di Giusto: instantly thought, this is a person I need in my life. And I'm so
Sylvie di Giusto: excited that we reconnected.
Joanne Lockwood: Wow, you kind of maybe got flustered there.
Joanne Lockwood: Thank you. I'm very honoured to think so. And I completely agree
Joanne Lockwood: completely that we are, as a human species, we are kind
Joanne Lockwood: of have this bias, this fight, flight, freeze mechanism in our
Joanne Lockwood: head. And that 1st 7 seconds is that window
Joanne Lockwood: of opportunity to establish who we are with somebody else
Joanne Lockwood: isn't exactly and. Again, it has nothing to do
Sylvie di Giusto: if you are a female or a male, if you are old or young, if
Sylvie di Giusto: you are your body or in the body of Mother Teresa
Sylvie di Giusto: we all do it. It's actually brain performance happening. There is
Sylvie di Giusto: science behind it that tells us kind of exactly
Sylvie di Giusto: what happens in our brains. It doesn't really matter if it's 7 seconds
Sylvie di Giusto: or milliseconds if it's 11 seconds. There are different studies out
Sylvie di Giusto: there but all of them have in common that we do
Sylvie di Giusto: form opinions about somebody instantly
Sylvie di Giusto: based on what I call the
Sylvie di Giusto: ABCDE of a first impression. And if you don't
Sylvie di Giusto: mind, I run you quickly through that framework that you know
Sylvie di Giusto: how you can use this to your advantage, especially at
Sylvie di Giusto: work. The A stands for your appearance, the way
Sylvie di Giusto: you look. Like it or not, we are all visual creatures.
Sylvie di Giusto: Our brains are actually quite lazy. They don't like to
Sylvie di Giusto: work so they take a shortcut through our eyes. We look at
Sylvie di Giusto: somebody and instantly, based on their body image,
Sylvie di Giusto: their clothing, their skin, their teeth, their smile, their
Sylvie di Giusto: hair, their accessories, we think we know something about that
Sylvie di Giusto: person. Is it fair? No, it isn't. Does it
Sylvie di Giusto: happen? Absolutely. But just to be clear,
Sylvie di Giusto: looking good is great, but it's not enough because
Sylvie di Giusto: at one point we are going to be for behave your
Sylvie di Giusto: attitude, is it positive, is it negative?
Sylvie di Giusto: Do you have the aura like you have that I instantly was
Sylvie di Giusto: gravitating towards you and thought I want to know more about that
Sylvie di Giusto: person based on her behaviour, emotional
Sylvie di Giusto: intelligence. How do you,
Sylvie di Giusto: for example, apply business etiquette skills? Do you look somebody
Sylvie di Giusto: in the eyes or not? Do you shake somebody's hands or not? Are you on
Sylvie di Giusto: your phone all the time? So how do you behave in micro
Sylvie di Giusto: moments that might not be relevant to you but at work might
Sylvie di Giusto: be relevant for your client or for your boss or for your team
Sylvie di Giusto: member and then at one point you're going to say something. So
Sylvie di Giusto: it's the C four communication and it's about what
Sylvie di Giusto: you say and how you say it. Let's first start with how
Sylvie di Giusto: you say it. Your voice is a very powerful tool. It's like an
Sylvie di Giusto: instrument that you play every single day and most of us
Sylvie di Giusto: never learn to play that instrument, we just play it.
Sylvie di Giusto: And how do you communicate? Are you a clear
Sylvie di Giusto: communicator? Are you a passive aggressive communicator? How do you
Sylvie di Giusto: start conversations? What do you actually say?
Sylvie di Giusto: Your tone, your pace, your voice. Do you have an
Sylvie di Giusto: accent like I have? Do you have specific
Sylvie di Giusto: patterns, communication patterns that you apply
Sylvie di Giusto: that ABC with a very common model?
Sylvie di Giusto: I have added the diesel for your digital
Sylvie di Giusto: footprint because I find that nowadays most
Sylvie di Giusto: often we don't make a first impression anymore in
Sylvie di Giusto: person. I was lucky to meet you in person
Sylvie di Giusto: the first time, but in reality most often we make
Sylvie di Giusto: a first impression with the emails that we send with the social media
Sylvie di Giusto: profiles that we create with the conscious and unconscious
Sylvie di Giusto: digital footprints that we leave behind on the
Sylvie di Giusto: internet. And if you are at work and think,
Sylvie di Giusto: well, my social media that is personal, that is private,
Sylvie di Giusto: that has nothing to do with my personal, with my
Sylvie di Giusto: professional life, then you are very wrong. Because if there are two things
Sylvie di Giusto: that don't belong together, it's the internet and it's private. Right.
Sylvie di Giusto: And then the environment, the environment you
Sylvie di Giusto: operate in, the E Four environment, the people you hang
Sylvie di Giusto: out with, the people you surround yourself, are they all
Sylvie di Giusto: alikes? Lookalikes or do you put
Sylvie di Giusto: conscious effort into surrounding yourself with people you
Sylvie di Giusto: can learn something from, but also your environment, such
Sylvie di Giusto: as the office, the car that you drive, the house that you live, we are
Sylvie di Giusto: going vacation. Everything that we find out about you and
Sylvie di Giusto: your environment will influence the instant
Sylvie di Giusto: opinion we have about you. So thank you very
Sylvie di Giusto: much for letting me quickly run through. But now you know
Sylvie di Giusto: how with your ABCDE you can actually
Sylvie di Giusto: a little bit control the imprint you make on
Sylvie di Giusto: others. What you can't control, and you are such an expert in that
Sylvie di Giusto: topic, is which unconscious biases
Sylvie di Giusto: you are fighting on the other side.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, that's really, really interesting because one of the things I've
Joanne Lockwood: come to think about over the last few years is that whilst we want to
Joanne Lockwood: strive to eliminate unconscious bias to create
Joanne Lockwood: fairness, create opportunity, as an
Joanne Lockwood: entrepreneur, as you are, we want to play those
Joanne Lockwood: biases. We have to understand the biases that are in play. And
Joanne Lockwood: as you say the ABCDE, we have
Joanne Lockwood: to think about how we're going to come across. So we want to
Joanne Lockwood: influence someone's bias positively, not let
Joanne Lockwood: them almost like control that conversation in
Joanne Lockwood: that way, isn't it? Because we're giving them the help that we want to be
Joanne Lockwood: perceived, they're then reacting to the information we're providing.
Joanne Lockwood: So I think if you think about sales, we think about marketing, it's all around
Joanne Lockwood: playing to someone's bias or their emotions or
Joanne Lockwood: their connection. Whilst I love to remove
Joanne Lockwood: unconscious bias, I want to make sure that I'm playing the bias
Joanne Lockwood: positively. I love what you said about the digital
Joanne Lockwood: footprint. I've been very conscious that my
Joanne Lockwood: personal and business life online presence
Joanne Lockwood: are blending into one. And I'm not saying that
Joanne Lockwood: I'm inauthentic, but I am very measured
Joanne Lockwood: about the stories I share personally and I'm
Joanne Lockwood: very conscious about what it says about me.
Joanne Lockwood: If I'm going to say that I'm sad and unhappy or struggling or
Joanne Lockwood: stressed, I put it in context not
Joanne Lockwood: as a wound, but as a scar. So I'm saying the
Joanne Lockwood: takeaway from this is what I've learned from this. I think what you're
Joanne Lockwood: saying there is we've got to be there's 7 seconds, as you say. 10
Joanne Lockwood: seconds. 7 seconds, 2 seconds. This
Joanne Lockwood: ABCDE is beyond just that first visual
Joanne Lockwood: impression of someone, isn't it? Absolutely. And when
Sylvie di Giusto: it comes to your digital footprint. I know that many people
Sylvie di Giusto: think, well, let me just be authentic online the way I'm authentic
Sylvie di Giusto: offline. But here's the problem with authenticity,
Sylvie di Giusto: something that authenticity means I don't have to care
Sylvie di Giusto: anymore. I can just do, say, behave
Sylvie di Giusto: whatever I want. And I think the opposite.
Sylvie di Giusto: Obviously, you are a human being with ups and
Sylvie di Giusto: downs. We all have them. But at the end of
Sylvie di Giusto: the month, at least, I rely on a paycheck and so do many
Sylvie di Giusto: people who work in corporations. So I need to take into
Sylvie di Giusto: consideration that, yes, I should be authentic
Sylvie di Giusto: even online. But there is kind of a
Sylvie di Giusto: limit on how I can share my opinions,
Sylvie di Giusto: always knowing that possibly I can offend somebody on
Sylvie di Giusto: the other side, for example, or also being aware of
Sylvie di Giusto: you don't know which opportunities you miss out because of your
Sylvie di Giusto: digital footprint. We don't know how many clients don't
Sylvie di Giusto: call us to speak at their conferences because
Sylvie di Giusto: they found that post online or that picture online, or
Sylvie di Giusto: that email that has been forwarded to them and we don't even know
Sylvie di Giusto: about it, and decide, no, that is not the speaker I want to work
Sylvie di Giusto: with. Yeah, and I suppose the rule I
Joanne Lockwood: have is that my mum is on Facebook,
Joanne Lockwood: so whenever I post something, I think my
Joanne Lockwood: mum is going to read this. Yes, how do I want my mum to
Joanne Lockwood: interpret it? And my children and my wife and my
Joanne Lockwood: friends, not just my business professionals. But
Joanne Lockwood: I don't want to alarm people. And I
Joanne Lockwood: consider myself quite a positive person. So any post I have
Joanne Lockwood: that has a deep reflection has to have
Joanne Lockwood: a positive outcome, or at least say, this is how I
Joanne Lockwood: felt, this is why I'm down, this is why I'm not feeling great, but
Joanne Lockwood: I'm taking away from this positivity or this is what I'm going to bounce
Joanne Lockwood: back. So I always have that kind of
Joanne Lockwood: mantra, if you like, in my social media posts, to leave people in a
Joanne Lockwood: story and a journey and leave them with a punchline that's positive
Joanne Lockwood: or at least informative or something to take away. And
Joanne Lockwood: that's not inauthentic. And I agree with you, authenticity isn't being able to
Joanne Lockwood: speak without regard, not
Joanne Lockwood: being offensive, being derogatory.
Joanne Lockwood: People who take that view of authenticity, I think, have misread the
Joanne Lockwood: situation. It's about being true to yourself, but also
Joanne Lockwood: understanding your place in society as well. I think you have to understand your social
Joanne Lockwood: responsibility. Some other thoughts.
Sylvie di Giusto: First of all, I'm excited that you put so much effort into this and also
Sylvie di Giusto: always ending up ending on a positive note, even if you
Sylvie di Giusto: share something sad or something that impacted you negatively.
Sylvie di Giusto: Because the reality is, if we don't need one more thing, it's
Sylvie di Giusto: more negative. People, even in the online space, right? We all like
Sylvie di Giusto: to surround ourselves with positive people who all
Sylvie di Giusto: have struggles. You and I have struggles, and you can absolutely
Sylvie di Giusto: share those struggles online as long as you always keep in
Sylvie di Giusto: mind who is reading it and how could they possibly interpret
Sylvie di Giusto: it. And I'm going to add two more Ms for you. I always
Sylvie di Giusto: say your mom should be able to read it without having a
Sylvie di Giusto: heart attack. Your manager and your minister.
Sylvie di Giusto: The three m's. Three M's. In the end, it's all about
Sylvie di Giusto: showing respect. I think respect is incredibly important.
Sylvie di Giusto: First and foremost, respect for yourself, because
Sylvie di Giusto: you are the most important person in your life.
Sylvie di Giusto: You are the CEO of your career. It's not human
Sylvie di Giusto: resources, it's not your boss, it's not your CEO.
Sylvie di Giusto: You are the CEO of your career. So you need to show
Sylvie di Giusto: yourself some respect in that role. And then, obviously,
Sylvie di Giusto: only if you show respect to yourself, you have the capability to
Sylvie di Giusto: show respect to others too.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. One of the things I don't know if you remember, there was I won't
Joanne Lockwood: mention the person in detail, but there's someone at
Joanne Lockwood: the conference we were both at and he was talking
Joanne Lockwood: about the fact that he would never share his political views
Joanne Lockwood: or other
Joanne Lockwood: polarising beliefs he may have
Joanne Lockwood: in case it turned one side off
Joanne Lockwood: or lent. Or he would, as you say, lose business.
Joanne Lockwood: I take a slightly different approach that I would rather say what
Joanne Lockwood: I believe, say why I believe something and if that
Joanne Lockwood: turns people off, for me, it's almost like we probably
Joanne Lockwood: weren't good fits anyway.
Joanne Lockwood: My identity as a trans woman can polarise people. I'm not going to hide
Joanne Lockwood: that I'm going to be me. If that turns you off, then that's
Joanne Lockwood: fine, because I recognise that it's going to turn more people on or
Joanne Lockwood: the right people on than the wrong people off, sort of thing. So
Joanne Lockwood: I think in terms of my authenticity,
Joanne Lockwood: hinting at my political beliefs without being a political
Joanne Lockwood: commentator is important because I want to talk about social justice.
Joanne Lockwood: I don't want to be leaning to the right, I want to be leaning to
Joanne Lockwood: the centre and to the left slightly, where we are looking at
Joanne Lockwood: communities and governments that are investing in people,
Joanne Lockwood: not minimalizing the state. So
Joanne Lockwood: I'm happy to talk about that. I'm happy to sort of commentate on some of
Joanne Lockwood: the injustices that are going on in the world through
Joanne Lockwood: that lens as well. And I think that's important because that's part of my brand,
Joanne Lockwood: to have those opinions. Here's exactly the point.
Sylvie di Giusto: You are an expert in this area. We need you
Sylvie di Giusto: to talk about things like that. We need you to
Sylvie di Giusto: educate us on those different things and
Sylvie di Giusto: help us understand the world because we have
Sylvie di Giusto: blind spots, we have our own biases and
Sylvie di Giusto: possibly don't see the things or quite sure, don't see the
Sylvie di Giusto: things through the lenses. You see them. However, here's the
Sylvie di Giusto: difference. You are an expert in that area and you can
Sylvie di Giusto: take a stand. If I'm a sales speaker or if
Sylvie di Giusto: I am a customer experience speaker, then my
Sylvie di Giusto: political opinions are not relevant. For my
Sylvie di Giusto: audience it's always audience and
Sylvie di Giusto: occasion, right? And so I agree and
Sylvie di Giusto: disagree with what that speaker said. Of course people
Sylvie di Giusto: like you need to take a stand and need to
Sylvie di Giusto: educate us and part of that education is your
Sylvie di Giusto: personal view on things that helps me
Sylvie di Giusto: as somebody who don't have the same lenses to
Sylvie di Giusto: identify my blind spots and learn from you
Sylvie di Giusto: but I on the other side. I speak about first
Sylvie di Giusto: impressions and when I post something about
Sylvie di Giusto: politics it rather has nothing to do with my personal
Sylvie di Giusto: political opinion I never take a stand but I help
Sylvie di Giusto: people to see both sides of the coin and how first
Sylvie di Giusto: impressions of a politician, for example, impact voter
Sylvie di Giusto: decisions. So it really depends on the audience and on the
Sylvie di Giusto: occasion, especially if you are a leader in a
Sylvie di Giusto: corporation, what you say out there, what does
Sylvie di Giusto: your political opinion really or
Sylvie di Giusto: how does it really help or does it just add noise
Sylvie di Giusto: to the world? I completely agree with what you're saying
Joanne Lockwood: and my view is that you talk about the problem, not the
Joanne Lockwood: person or the politics so the impact of a
Joanne Lockwood: decision, not the decision itself or who made
Joanne Lockwood: it so you're talking about how it affects people and lives.
Joanne Lockwood: I would never criticise a person or
Joanne Lockwood: demonise a person or create judgement on a person because generally I
Joanne Lockwood: don't know them. All I know is what I see on the news or the
Joanne Lockwood: paper or hear about. So I'm really conscious about
Joanne Lockwood: that judgement you make. And it actually annoys my wife
Joanne Lockwood: that I will say that
Joanne Lockwood: maybe one of her comments is unfair. And she goes, well, you always take somebody
Joanne Lockwood: outside. No, I'm not taking somebody outside. What I'm doing is trying to
Joanne Lockwood: step back from the person and look at the decision or the
Joanne Lockwood: problem. And that's what I want to commentate about my view
Joanne Lockwood: on the opinion, not who made it and why they made it.
Sylvie di Giusto: Very well done. And that view helps us to understand
Sylvie di Giusto: the problem without also on top not
Sylvie di Giusto: judging the person you are commenting on.
Joanne Lockwood: You said audience and occasion. I think that is and I talk about
Joanne Lockwood: context, which is what we're saying there, isn't it?
Joanne Lockwood: What is good language, what is good to conversation, what is good in
Joanne Lockwood: one situation, in a different context, with a different audience, can
Joanne Lockwood: have a different connotation, can have different meanings and
Joanne Lockwood: can polarise in the wrong way so I think it is important to understand
Joanne Lockwood: who your audience is. One problem there is when we communicate
Sylvie di Giusto: very often we focus on the things that we say and how
Sylvie di Giusto: we should say them and when we should say them and what we should say
Sylvie di Giusto: but the reality, the most important part of
Sylvie di Giusto: communication is actually not speaking, it is
Sylvie di Giusto: listening, active listening. I think we all can
Sylvie di Giusto: do a better job in active listening
Sylvie di Giusto: to the other person and then adjusting
Sylvie di Giusto: our communication but very often we start with what should
Sylvie di Giusto: we say to impress the person, to
Sylvie di Giusto: sound interesting, but we rather
Sylvie di Giusto: should be interested. Not interesting.
Joanne Lockwood: That's so true. And I find when we
Joanne Lockwood: communicate and talk, often we're trying to persuade the other
Joanne Lockwood: person of our belief. So if you think about
Joanne Lockwood: many conversations, you initiate it's. Like I'm saying now, I'm trying to
Joanne Lockwood: persuade you that I'm right by what I say.
Joanne Lockwood: And most conversations are like that. And if we're not careful, we don't actually listen
Joanne Lockwood: to the other people's view or opinion or perspective,
Joanne Lockwood: we're never going to change our view. So it's trying to work out how we
Joanne Lockwood: can be, as you say, active listener, not reinforce
Joanne Lockwood: our confirmation bias, not play to those biases when we
Joanne Lockwood: have and be kind of open to new thinking.
Sylvie di Giusto: Empathy all it requires empathy. If you're an
Sylvie di Giusto: empathetic communicator, you know how to
Sylvie di Giusto: listen well to the other person
Sylvie di Giusto: and respond based on what they just told
Sylvie di Giusto: you. Yeah, completely. And
Joanne Lockwood: I think that is sometimes not
Joanne Lockwood: not as prevalent in leadership.
Joanne Lockwood: In many organisations. We tend to promote good
Joanne Lockwood: technicians, senior
Joanne Lockwood: administrators, into leadership roles without giving
Joanne Lockwood: them the right tools, because we know we can train leadership. We know
Joanne Lockwood: we can train leadership. You're not born. Maybe some people have inherently different
Joanne Lockwood: personalities that are more attuned to leader roles, but
Joanne Lockwood: we know we can train leaders now and we often don't invest
Joanne Lockwood: well enough in those soft skills. The empathy, the emotion, the
Joanne Lockwood: compassion, the emotional intelligence, the listening. Yes. I spent
Sylvie di Giusto: 20 years in human resources myself, working for
Sylvie di Giusto: a big organisation in Europe. Some of you might
Sylvie di Giusto: actually know them. Kashdat Kwali, which was a
Sylvie di Giusto: retailer, and Thomas Cook, which you certainly
Sylvie di Giusto: know. And I was responsible for building up their management
Sylvie di Giusto: academy for their top 100 leaders. And what was
Sylvie di Giusto: fascinating for me is I always found that we
Sylvie di Giusto: hired leaders for their hard skills,
Sylvie di Giusto: but we fired them because of their soft skills
Sylvie di Giusto: or. The lack of yes. Or the lack of soft skills. Exactly.
Sylvie di Giusto: And so things like emotional
Sylvie di Giusto: intelligence, conflict management,
Sylvie di Giusto: communication skills, to a certain degree, they are all
Sylvie di Giusto: so important for leaders in organisation. And
Sylvie di Giusto: I encourage everybody listening who is somehow
Sylvie di Giusto: influential in their organisation to figure out how to
Sylvie di Giusto: help those leaders get ahead in the way they represent
Sylvie di Giusto: themselves, because they also represent your organisation by
Sylvie di Giusto: applying these soft skills or the lack of soft skills.
Joanne Lockwood: But I don't think we invest enough time. You're completely
Joanne Lockwood: right. I think it is a case of recognising that we can
Joanne Lockwood: train technical skills, we can't always train
Joanne Lockwood: human attitudes or values. And I think
Joanne Lockwood: in the modern world, we look at the way we've moved on from a command
Joanne Lockwood: and control, hierarchical, very top down
Joanne Lockwood: style of management and leadership. We're now in a more collaborative,
Joanne Lockwood: transformational sort of style, where people want
Joanne Lockwood: to be empowered. They're artisans, they're creators in many
Joanne Lockwood: roles. Now, we want to empower people to succeed and we have to
Joanne Lockwood: motivate them and manage them and lead them in different ways than we've ever done.
Joanne Lockwood: And I think COVID brought this home to us, that none of us had the
Joanne Lockwood: experience of COVID in any part of the business.
Joanne Lockwood: Our leaders were just as scared as our colleagues. Exactly.
Joanne Lockwood: They had no tools and how they reacted
Joanne Lockwood: was, I think, quite incredible because they adapted very quickly.
Joanne Lockwood: They came from a world where the standard message was, we can't do
Joanne Lockwood: that,
Joanne Lockwood: we have to do that now. And
Joanne Lockwood: it was even agile by agile standards, wasn't it?
Sylvie di Giusto: I think one of the mistakes we often make when we hire
Sylvie di Giusto: leaders in organisation is that we so much focus on those hard
Sylvie di Giusto: skills, so much on their past
Sylvie di Giusto: experiences, in terms of the titles they had,
Sylvie di Giusto: the responsibilities they had, and don't look enough
Sylvie di Giusto: into their soft skills and especially into their
Sylvie di Giusto: talents, because, as you say, it's soft skills.
Sylvie di Giusto: Still, there are ways to kind of train
Sylvie di Giusto: them. We have leadership training programmes or other
Sylvie di Giusto: soft skills programmes. What you can't train is actually a
Sylvie di Giusto: talent. A talent is something you are born with. When you go
Sylvie di Giusto: back into your childhood and you think of something you
Sylvie di Giusto: have always been somehow magically be good
Sylvie di Giusto: at, you just were born with that talent. Could be in
Sylvie di Giusto: the creative space, could be in the physical space, could be in the
Sylvie di Giusto: analytical area. Then
Sylvie di Giusto: for the rest of your life, you will do two things. First of all, you
Sylvie di Giusto: are always interested in learning more and more and more because it brings you
Sylvie di Giusto: joy, it fulfils you to apply that talent. You can never
Sylvie di Giusto: stop learning about it. Second, it drives you crazy. If other
Sylvie di Giusto: people can't do that, you think, It's so easy to me, why
Sylvie di Giusto: is it so hard to others? Then that's a very good signal. It could be
Sylvie di Giusto: one of your natural talents because it feels easy to you, because you were born
Sylvie di Giusto: with. And when we apply our talents at work,
Sylvie di Giusto: when we have that opportunity, we thrive. We
Sylvie di Giusto: are better employees, we are better leaders, we
Sylvie di Giusto: just contribute better to the organisational success
Sylvie di Giusto: because we have the ability to apply our
Sylvie di Giusto: natural talents and not just our hard skills,
Sylvie di Giusto: which nowadays are given hard skills in any
Sylvie di Giusto: industry are, and I hope I don't offend
Sylvie di Giusto: somebody easy to learn. I can go on YouTube.
Sylvie di Giusto: I can go on YouTube and watch videos about
Sylvie di Giusto: a specific hard skill and tomorrow I could possibly
Sylvie di Giusto: start to do it yourself, build a house if I want to,
Sylvie di Giusto: and I'm not a contractor at all. Right? So hard skills are
Sylvie di Giusto: not hard to acquire anymore. Soft skills,
Sylvie di Giusto: possibly you can educate and train them
Sylvie di Giusto: over the time of your career. But
Sylvie di Giusto: think about your natural talents. What is a natural talent you
Sylvie di Giusto: can bring to your organisation? Because if you can apply your
Sylvie di Giusto: natural talent, you will thrive, your team will thrive
Sylvie di Giusto: and your company will thrive. Yeah. And I think that's
Joanne Lockwood: one of the key essences of belonging. You're using your
Joanne Lockwood: strengths every day. You're not out of your
Joanne Lockwood: comfort zone. Maybe you're in your stretch zone, but you're not in your panic
Joanne Lockwood: zone, you're not complacent, you're not doing something that's
Joanne Lockwood: too routine. You're right in that sweet spot of my strength
Joanne Lockwood: is, and I think what you were saying there, it made me think
Joanne Lockwood: that maybe that's the cause of some maybe my
Joanne Lockwood: own impostor syndrome, because some of the things I do are
Joanne Lockwood: quite innate, they're quite automatic, they're just the way I do
Joanne Lockwood: things. And then people go, but you're so good at that. I
Joanne Lockwood: go, I don't understand. I feel kind of an
Joanne Lockwood: imposter, or I feel a bit embarrassed that you pointed that out.
Joanne Lockwood: I don't think I've earned it and you're going to find me out. And I
Joanne Lockwood: think maybe that's where the mismatch can occur in our
Joanne Lockwood: limiting beliefs, our imposter syndrome, because we have an innate
Joanne Lockwood: ability. Very good thought. Very good thought. I might
Sylvie di Giusto: actually steal that a little bit and
Sylvie di Giusto: use it when I help people to understand how they
Sylvie di Giusto: should identify, first of all, their natural talents
Sylvie di Giusto: and make sure that they apply them at work and also find
Sylvie di Giusto: a connection, because very often when people identify their
Sylvie di Giusto: talents, they are actually not talents that they use at
Sylvie di Giusto: work. But everything is connected with
Sylvie di Giusto: everything. Right? If you are a very creative person,
Sylvie di Giusto: there will be opportunities for you to show that creativity
Sylvie di Giusto: in work might be in your PowerPoint presentations, might be
Sylvie di Giusto: in the way you organise team meetings, but make sure
Sylvie di Giusto: to focus on that talent because it will bring you joy and once again,
Sylvie di Giusto: help you thrive. Yeah. Is
Joanne Lockwood: it a Japanese saying? Is it ikagi or
Joanne Lockwood: ikigai or something? What it's
Joanne Lockwood: not saying is that if you find your passion,
Joanne Lockwood: find something that brings you joy. Find something you can make money
Joanne Lockwood: out of. And when they all intersect,
Joanne Lockwood: that's when you're self actuating. That's when you're in your position of most
Joanne Lockwood: Power. And I think I look back at my career. So I spent
Joanne Lockwood: 32 years in It, in computing. I ran
Joanne Lockwood: my own business in It for 20 or 530 years. And
Joanne Lockwood: people used to say to me, wow, you're brilliant at this. You've got a natural
Joanne Lockwood: talent, or what you've just done is incredible. And I
Joanne Lockwood: was at the end of it. I used to go, I don't see it. And
Joanne Lockwood: then what I realised towards the end of that part of my career was
Joanne Lockwood: that I didn't see that as something that I wanted to be recognised
Joanne Lockwood: for. It was something that I was good at, something I had a flair
Joanne Lockwood: for, but it wasn't something I was really proud of. It wasn't something that I
Joanne Lockwood: went, oh, thank you. I want to be the best It person in the world.
Joanne Lockwood: It's like, okay, all right, thank you. And I felt a bit embarrassed by
Joanne Lockwood: it. But I think now I found a
Joanne Lockwood: different passion in diversity, inclusion, in speaking,
Joanne Lockwood: in training. So when people give me
Joanne Lockwood: feedback in a positive way about that, I go, thank
Joanne Lockwood: you. And it means something because I go because I want to be good at
Joanne Lockwood: this, I want to be recognised for this. Whereas in the past I maybe
Joanne Lockwood: didn't. And so what you're saying there is really, really resonating with me
Joanne Lockwood: that finding that sweet spot of
Joanne Lockwood: that passion and ability. Yes,
Joanne Lockwood: it's where the magic happens. So we know that probably
Sylvie di Giusto: the most important part of emotional intelligence is self
Sylvie di Giusto: awareness. And really do we take the time
Sylvie di Giusto: to think about ourselves and what makes us
Sylvie di Giusto: unique and stand out? Right? I have a
Sylvie di Giusto: book coming up called Discover Your Fair
Sylvie di Giusto: Advantage and it helps lead us to identify
Sylvie di Giusto: 15 unique selling points. Unique selling
Sylvie di Giusto: points? USP is a term that we very often use in
Sylvie di Giusto: marketing or sales to describe what
Sylvie di Giusto: is so unique about a product or a service that
Sylvie di Giusto: I'm going to buy it from you and not from your competitor.
Sylvie di Giusto: And I applied those principles to a human
Sylvie di Giusto: being, to a professional in the workplace. What is so unique
Sylvie di Giusto: about you as a professional that I should hire you,
Sylvie di Giusto: promote you, buy from you, buy into you?
Sylvie di Giusto: And some of those unique selling points are, for example,
Sylvie di Giusto: your values and beliefs. We both are
Sylvie di Giusto: keynote speakers, but probably apply very different values
Sylvie di Giusto: and beliefs to the way we make business. Your
Sylvie di Giusto: origin and your story. I mean, look at your
Sylvie di Giusto: amazing story that you went through. Do you apply that in your
Sylvie di Giusto: marketing, in your positioning, that people understand? It's such a
Sylvie di Giusto: unique story that helps you stand out your natural talents and gifts,
Sylvie di Giusto: your skills and competencies, your experiences and
Sylvie di Giusto: lessons learned, your accomplishments and achievements,
Sylvie di Giusto: or your passions and obsessions. Because
Sylvie di Giusto: we often think when we think of passions, passions are only
Sylvie di Giusto: allowed in our personal life. But no, absolutely
Sylvie di Giusto: not. If you have the opportunity to bring your
Sylvie di Giusto: passion to work, it again will fulfil you with
Sylvie di Giusto: joy and make you thrive. I even
Sylvie di Giusto: always encourage leaders to identify a fun fact about
Sylvie di Giusto: themselves and share it. Because after all, we are in a
Sylvie di Giusto: people business, right? We have to go beyond the
Sylvie di Giusto: transaction, the professional transaction between us. And in a people
Sylvie di Giusto: business, find something that is unique about you,
Sylvie di Giusto: a fun fact. You might have a collection of
Sylvie di Giusto: 4000 vinyl records, for example. Or you might have a
Sylvie di Giusto: unique hobby, or you might be one of 18 siblings
Sylvie di Giusto: or something fun unique about you that you can, for
Sylvie di Giusto: example, use as a conversation starter and where you
Sylvie di Giusto: have instantly a common ground that, yes, this is a
Sylvie di Giusto: people business and you make yourself
Sylvie di Giusto: likeable, approachable accessible by going
Sylvie di Giusto: beyond the business transaction.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, that is so true. I learned very quickly
Joanne Lockwood: in the business we're both in is that that frictionless,
Joanne Lockwood: that easy to transact with
Joanne Lockwood: you. Know they're going to ask this question. So you have that answer,
Joanne Lockwood: you've got your finger poised on the send button. There it is, it's
Joanne Lockwood: in the chat for you. There it is. I'll get that over to you next.
Joanne Lockwood: And I think that's so important. And we can all have
Joanne Lockwood: our ego and our diva and we can all have our sort of don't you
Joanne Lockwood: know who I am? And these are my riders, we can all have that. But
Joanne Lockwood: really it comes down to do I like you? Do I want to do business
Joanne Lockwood: with you? I always start
Joanne Lockwood: conversations with how would I like you to feel about me when
Joanne Lockwood: we leave? So you talk about
Joanne Lockwood: starting with the end in mind. When I have a conversation,
Joanne Lockwood: what impression do I want to have left that person about me with
Joanne Lockwood: and have I achieved that? Have I left a positive impression?
Joanne Lockwood: My values, clever, intelligent, good speaker, knowledgeable,
Joanne Lockwood: friendly, open all the kind of words we can use. Have
Joanne Lockwood: I left you with that? I always think that's important,
Joanne Lockwood: that I don't just bump into conversations,
Joanne Lockwood: I set out with that in mind
Joanne Lockwood: again. So when I'm trying to create that first impression I'm
Joanne Lockwood: thinking about the last impression exactly, not just how it the
Joanne Lockwood: end goal. I always tell people we know that the first
Sylvie di Giusto: eleven words of every conversation are the most important
Sylvie di Giusto: ones. People are going to remember you for the first
Sylvie di Giusto: eleven words in average, of course, that you say. And
Sylvie di Giusto: so most people, at least in the United States,
Sylvie di Giusto: start conversations with how are you doing? There is
Sylvie di Giusto: nothing wrong with asking how are you doing? If you're actually really
Sylvie di Giusto: interested in how the other person is doing. But other than that
Sylvie di Giusto: you just wasted half of the eleven words,
Sylvie di Giusto: right? Preparation is key. Do you have a
Sylvie di Giusto: conversation starter that
Sylvie di Giusto: instantly pulls in the other person, that instantly
Sylvie di Giusto: shows the other person that you care, that you care about them,
Sylvie di Giusto: that you cared to prep, that you went, let's say, on
Sylvie di Giusto: their LinkedIn profile, find out something about them that just
Sylvie di Giusto: happened at work, something positive about their organisation.
Sylvie di Giusto: Maybe you have a common contact you could use, anything
Sylvie di Giusto: that helps people to instantly realise
Sylvie di Giusto: that you care. I have sourced around
Sylvie di Giusto: 24,000 people in the meantime in my audiences
Sylvie di Giusto: and every time I use that app and ask them what is
Sylvie di Giusto: the picture perfect first impression somebody
Sylvie di Giusto: else should make on you? Depending if they are, for example, a
Sylvie di Giusto: realtor or a financial manager or somebody from human
Sylvie di Giusto: resources or a speaker or an event planner. Different roles.
Sylvie di Giusto: 24,000 responses and the number one
Sylvie di Giusto: word across all, across all industries
Sylvie di Giusto: is care. Show me that you
Sylvie di Giusto: care. And by the way, it's one of my
Sylvie di Giusto: favourite words because it's actually very easy to
Sylvie di Giusto: imprint that in milliseconds without even doing
Sylvie di Giusto: something obviously near. It's more an unconscious
Sylvie di Giusto: process. The moment you take
Sylvie di Giusto: care of yourself first,
Sylvie di Giusto: people think you have the capability to take care
Sylvie di Giusto: of them too. I repeat that for you. If you don't
Sylvie di Giusto: take care of yourself first, people do
Sylvie di Giusto: not assume that you have the capability to
Sylvie di Giusto: take care of them too. So when I go back to
Sylvie di Giusto: your ABCDE, what was
Sylvie di Giusto: it, for example, about Joanne when I walked into
Sylvie di Giusto: that room and instantly realised that is a person who
Sylvie di Giusto: cares because she takes care of herself too? And
Sylvie di Giusto: I can see that. I can see that in your appearance.
Sylvie di Giusto: I noticed that in your behaviour, in your communication and so
Sylvie di Giusto: on. And some people think self care is selfish. No, it is not.
Sylvie di Giusto: Again, you are the most important person in your life and if you don't take
Sylvie di Giusto: care of yourself, others don't think that you have the
Sylvie di Giusto: capability to take care of them.
Joanne Lockwood: And I know for a fact you walked the talk on that, because
Joanne Lockwood: for the first time I saw you standing up at that event when you spoke
Joanne Lockwood: on that was it Thursday morning? I could tell that you
Joanne Lockwood: were pitch perfect in terms of your presentation, your message.
Joanne Lockwood: You stood up to talk about first impressions and you
Joanne Lockwood: lived that mantra from start to finish.
Joanne Lockwood: And every time we met over the course of those four days,
Joanne Lockwood: again, you were pitch perfect on every occasion you were on brand.
Joanne Lockwood: And it wasn't fake or inauthentic, it was
Joanne Lockwood: who you were. And you had that smile and that you were beaming
Joanne Lockwood: and whatever you were wearing, it showed you off.
Joanne Lockwood: I became a fangirl. Same
Sylvie di Giusto: here. I'm glad we connected fangirls of each. Other,
Joanne Lockwood: but I was drawn to look at your website, I've watched some
Joanne Lockwood: of your show reels and when you go
Joanne Lockwood: back, you talk about your apcde. You are
Joanne Lockwood: connected from the A through to the E in terms of your brand,
Joanne Lockwood: your message, the way you behave, your attitude, your
Joanne Lockwood: compassion, your smile, your interest in people and your digital
Joanne Lockwood: footprint reinforces that message.
Joanne Lockwood: That's really, I think a power you have is
Joanne Lockwood: to create that complete on messageness.
Joanne Lockwood: It's not at all fake, it's not at all inauthentic. It is
Joanne Lockwood: innate within you as part of who you are.
Joanne Lockwood: Communicate that with people. It comes across as that is,
Joanne Lockwood: you are truly a person that has this
Joanne Lockwood: aligned. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Sylvie di Giusto: It was hard work. It was years of
Sylvie di Giusto: focusing on, once again, self
Sylvie di Giusto: awareness. I needed to learn about myself,
Sylvie di Giusto: who I am and who am I not. And even
Sylvie di Giusto: if we all play some sort of role, especially in a
Sylvie di Giusto: professional world, how can I play the role that I am
Sylvie di Giusto: still okay with it, that it makes me happy, that it brings
Sylvie di Giusto: me joy? Right. And since you mentioned the
Sylvie di Giusto: ABCDE again in my audience, I let them at one
Sylvie di Giusto: point vote on what do you think? Which of those
Sylvie di Giusto: elements is the most important one?
Sylvie di Giusto: And actually, it's an unfair question because they all matter. There is
Sylvie di Giusto: no more important. One,
Sylvie di Giusto: you can't look good and behave horrible.
Sylvie di Giusto: It's going to be difficult if you're a great communicator with
Sylvie di Giusto: words, but your behaviour and your appearance doesn't
Sylvie di Giusto: align right, so it's all five of them.
Sylvie di Giusto: However, I always then switch the order for them and say,
Sylvie di Giusto: you need to start with your digital footprint. First,
Sylvie di Giusto: you want to be online. The same person as you are
Sylvie di Giusto: offline. But secondly, you don't know how much
Sylvie di Giusto: you miss out on opportunities, that you never
Sylvie di Giusto: meet people in a room because they somehow found
Sylvie di Giusto: something in the digital space, a version of your digital
Sylvie di Giusto: you that pushed them away. And you don't
Sylvie di Giusto: know about those opportunities. So start there. First.
Joanne Lockwood: Do you ever find that people are
Joanne Lockwood: scared of you?
Joanne Lockwood: You're too polished, you're too impressive.
Sylvie di Giusto: Yes. So maybe you can link that in
Sylvie di Giusto: your show notes or somewhere on your website. I have something called
Sylvie di Giusto: a free perception audit. You take ten
Sylvie di Giusto: minutes of your time to answer a series of questions
Sylvie di Giusto: and then you will find out what your
Sylvie di Giusto: primary or secondary perception DNA
Sylvie di Giusto: is. And so my primary is
Sylvie di Giusto: somebody called the Cosmopolitan, and my secondary is
Sylvie di Giusto: the dramatic one. There are seven different categories. You,
Sylvie di Giusto: Joanne, will probably find out that you are somebody called
Sylvie di Giusto: the avant garde and the caregiver. Let's give
Sylvie di Giusto: it a try. You test it afterwards and see if I'm right.
Sylvie di Giusto: So, just to describe, you one of those categories, my own, the
Sylvie di Giusto: Cosmopolitan. The Cosmopolitan has a keyword called
Sylvie di Giusto: quality. Everything in their life needs to scream
Sylvie di Giusto: quality. They are willing to invest into their clothing,
Sylvie di Giusto: into their education, into their house, into their cars.
Sylvie di Giusto: Because quality is important, they
Sylvie di Giusto: don't want to distract from them. If you look into their
Sylvie di Giusto: wardrobes, for example, everything is plain. There are rarely pattern. If there
Sylvie di Giusto: are pattern, they are probably geometric patterns, sharp
Sylvie di Giusto: patterns. Nothing is flowery, nothing is cute,
Sylvie di Giusto: there are no ruffles, nothing is
Sylvie di Giusto: nice about them. So the Cosmopolitan is
Sylvie di Giusto: very often perceived as
Sylvie di Giusto: sophisticated, as strong, as powerful.
Sylvie di Giusto: And every of these categories has a downside.
Sylvie di Giusto: So, unfortunately, the Cosmopolitan is also not perceived as
Sylvie di Giusto: a people person. They often scare people away
Sylvie di Giusto: because they are so polished, so clean, so
Sylvie di Giusto: sharp, that it takes people a while
Sylvie di Giusto: that they actually go beyond that philtre, that
Sylvie di Giusto: harsh philtre they have in front of them to find out we are nice
Sylvie di Giusto: people, we are really nice people, and
Sylvie di Giusto: to now close the circle. What I do is I know that
Sylvie di Giusto: my appearance comes off this way, so I put
Sylvie di Giusto: a lot of effort in my body language, in
Sylvie di Giusto: my facial expressions, in the way that I speak to
Sylvie di Giusto: people, to show them a little bit more of that
Sylvie di Giusto: I'm actually a nice human being and kind. You mentioned my
Sylvie di Giusto: smile. It's nothing that I trained, right? I'm not
Sylvie di Giusto: teaching myself how to smile, but I know it's important
Sylvie di Giusto: for me to smile, because if I would walk into a room
Sylvie di Giusto: and my facial expressions are like my outfits,
Sylvie di Giusto: then, oh, they would be really scared. I look very different
Sylvie di Giusto: when I work with coaching clients one on one, then you would
Sylvie di Giusto: find another version of me because I know it's a very personal
Sylvie di Giusto: situation. I need that warmth that you as a
Sylvie di Giusto: caregiver, for example, has. Does that mean I dress up and
Sylvie di Giusto: I'm somebody else? No, I just use and borrow
Sylvie di Giusto: elements of one of the other six categories that you can
Sylvie di Giusto: find out when you take that free online assessment.
Joanne Lockwood: Thank you for saying that, because my
Joanne Lockwood: first impression of you was someone who was a little bit
Joanne Lockwood: aloof, maybe wouldn't want to speak to me,
Joanne Lockwood: but I'm of the personality where I will speak to everybody and anybody
Joanne Lockwood: and avoid those biases or judgments. I will speak to the people serving coffee
Joanne Lockwood: because I have great conversations with everybody that way. I think when we first
Joanne Lockwood: chatted, you were
Joanne Lockwood: genuinely interested in me. That came across
Joanne Lockwood: and that completely diffused any apprehension I had about talking
Joanne Lockwood: to you. You were interested in me, I was interested in you. We had a
Joanne Lockwood: great conversation. So I think what you're saying there is that, yes, you can have
Joanne Lockwood: this persona that you project,
Joanne Lockwood: but you have to remember that you have to let people into
Joanne Lockwood: it. Otherwise you will end up being the person you don't
Joanne Lockwood: want to be. And I asked the question because I get
Joanne Lockwood: people who come up to me and say, oh,
Joanne Lockwood: Joanne, sorry for taking your time. I really appreciate
Joanne Lockwood: I've been following you for ages. I didn't think you'd ever have the time
Joanne Lockwood: to speak to little old me. And I go, how do I create that
Joanne Lockwood: impression? How do I make it sound like I'm scary and unapproachable?
Joanne Lockwood: That's the opposite of who I am. Of course. Within the first few seconds of
Joanne Lockwood: conversation, I'm warm, I'm open, I'm hugging, I'm
Joanne Lockwood: beaming and interested in that person. And I think it's
Joanne Lockwood: part of that ABCDE again, it's that self management, self
Joanne Lockwood: awareness of who we are and making sure we're aligning with
Joanne Lockwood: how we want to be perceived as well, isn't it? Absolutely.
Sylvie di Giusto: And it's part of self awareness, but also
Sylvie di Giusto: understanding that, for example, my assumption is
Sylvie di Giusto: you being transgender, that some people feel
Sylvie di Giusto: uncomfortable. Uncomfortable not knowing how to
Sylvie di Giusto: address you. Right? Not knowing how to speak to
Sylvie di Giusto: you, not knowing so much about the things that
Sylvie di Giusto: you know so well. And then it makes them feel uncomfortable.
Sylvie di Giusto: I have this approach that first I surround
Sylvie di Giusto: myself consciously, very consciously, with people
Sylvie di Giusto: who can learn me, teach me those skills. So I
Sylvie di Giusto: have friends that I reach out and say, help me
Sylvie di Giusto: understand, because it's something I didn't go through, so
Sylvie di Giusto: how would I know, right? And very often, it's not just
Sylvie di Giusto: reading literature. You really need a human being telling you
Sylvie di Giusto: how to react and act in such a
Sylvie di Giusto: situation. And the best thing is always just to
Sylvie di Giusto: be humble and address it or ask, I
Sylvie di Giusto: would think that would be more comfortable for you than being
Sylvie di Giusto: confronted with somebody who feels uncomfortable
Sylvie di Giusto: because of you. Am I right? I
Joanne Lockwood: completely and one of the biggest fears of getting it wrong and saying and doing
Joanne Lockwood: the wrong thing, big barrier to inclusion. And I agree, if
Joanne Lockwood: I can detect someone who's leaning away from me or nervous in
Joanne Lockwood: my presence, I go my first reaction is what's wrong with me? Why are you
Joanne Lockwood: scared of me? What have I done wrong
Joanne Lockwood: in the education I do is getting people to overcome that fear.
Joanne Lockwood: So part of that is we've already talked about the emotional intelligence. They're willing to
Joanne Lockwood: listen, be self aware, self regulate, self managed, social awareness, all these kind
Joanne Lockwood: of things. But the other side of that is the CQ, the cultural intelligence
Joanne Lockwood: and you talked about it there is you've got the drive to find out
Joanne Lockwood: more. You're actually interested in people, to find out more about people. So
Joanne Lockwood: from drive you got knowledge. If you got that knowledge you can start to then
Joanne Lockwood: to apply that and contextualise it and use
Joanne Lockwood: that. If you're always afraid or you're not interested enough in people
Joanne Lockwood: or difference or those challenges, you're never going to learn. And I
Joanne Lockwood: think as you say there, cultural intelligence fits with the
Joanne Lockwood: emotional intelligence, makes us better people people
Joanne Lockwood: and we. Will always make mistakes. I will make mistakes, you will
Sylvie di Giusto: make mistakes, others will make mistakes. But I think the most
Sylvie di Giusto: important part is to have the
Sylvie di Giusto: awareness that it possibly was a mistake that you just
Sylvie di Giusto: made and learn from it. And if you don't know
Sylvie di Giusto: yourself how to do better the next time,
Sylvie di Giusto: ask your friends. I recently was at an event
Sylvie di Giusto: and with my whole heart I said something out
Sylvie di Giusto: loud where then once the words
Sylvie di Giusto: were out, I thought, oh, did I just offend
Sylvie di Giusto: possibly the Afro American audience
Sylvie di Giusto: members by saying something that I even not meant this
Sylvie di Giusto: way? And I went back to one of my best friends, called
Sylvie di Giusto: him, described the situation, he taught me how to
Sylvie di Giusto: phrase it differently in the future so that there is not such a
Sylvie di Giusto: risk that I offend anyone because I always want to be
Sylvie di Giusto: respectful and I'm going to make mistakes. I'm making bad
Sylvie di Giusto: first impressions too, as we just heard, right? And you saw me the
Sylvie di Giusto: first time but it's all about being aware of it and
Sylvie di Giusto: trying to do the best you can.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, I think that's so true and I think what you're talking about there is
Joanne Lockwood: the accountability. If I make a mistake, I have to
Joanne Lockwood: own that mistake. I have to apologise, I have to learn, I have to move
Joanne Lockwood: on because if I don't learn and I make the mistake
Joanne Lockwood: again, that says that I don't care enough about you to get it
Joanne Lockwood: right the second time. So again, that human connection is making sure that
Joanne Lockwood: we take that personal responsibility to grow and learn and not push
Joanne Lockwood: it back on somebody else. Exactly. So what have you
Joanne Lockwood: got planned? Just looking
Joanne Lockwood: at your bio again and I remember when you came on
Joanne Lockwood: stage, you were introduced,
Joanne Lockwood: you've got like an opening saying, haven't you? When people read it out about,
Joanne Lockwood: they describes you. I am Austrian by
Sylvie di Giusto: birth, French in my heart, Italian in my
Sylvie di Giusto: kitchen, German in my work ethic and
Sylvie di Giusto: American by choice. I think that's amazing because
Joanne Lockwood: as you say, that sums up a lot of the dynamics of who you are,
Joanne Lockwood: doesn't it? Yes, that also sums up the accent.
Sylvie di Giusto: And if you don't mind talking about standing out and
Sylvie di Giusto: being visible and having a unique selling point, I share a
Sylvie di Giusto: quick personal story. Years ago, I have been invited
Sylvie di Giusto: to comment on a politician on a TV
Sylvie di Giusto: show. I didn't even know the politician, but the TV centre called and I said,
Sylvie di Giusto: of course I want to be in front of a camera. Right? And then I
Sylvie di Giusto: became a regular guest on that TV show. And when I
Sylvie di Giusto: watched the TV show in the evenings myself,
Sylvie di Giusto: oh my God, it was horrible. It was horrible to
Sylvie di Giusto: hear myself in front in between all those
Sylvie di Giusto: well spoken American political
Sylvie di Giusto: experts. They used so yummy, sophisticated
Sylvie di Giusto: words that I didn't even understand, but they sounded to me
Sylvie di Giusto: so incredible and so smart. And when I said something in
Sylvie di Giusto: between, it really made me feel
Sylvie di Giusto: uncomfortable. And a few months in, I was
Sylvie di Giusto: invited to the holiday party and the
Sylvie di Giusto: producer, the TV producer I was working with, he and I were
Sylvie di Giusto: sitting down and I shared it with him
Sylvie di Giusto: and I said how embarrassed I am and that I don't understand
Sylvie di Giusto: why they still invite me, basically. And he said to me
Sylvie di Giusto: something that changed forever. Forever my
Sylvie di Giusto: view on my uniqueness and my value. He
Sylvie di Giusto: said, Your accent is the reason
Sylvie di Giusto: why we invite you, because first,
Sylvie di Giusto: you sound like an international expert,
Sylvie di Giusto: which made me feel instantly better about myself.
Sylvie di Giusto: But second, you say things so simple that everybody in the
Sylvie di Giusto: audience understands you, while they don't understand what the other
Sylvie di Giusto: political experts say. So I had to
Sylvie di Giusto: learn the hard way that
Sylvie di Giusto: something that I thought is my weakness has
Sylvie di Giusto: actually become one of my superpowers. When I speak
Sylvie di Giusto: nowadays, I regularly notice that the
Sylvie di Giusto: prospects that reach out to me are looking for a
Sylvie di Giusto: somehow diverse speaker. And since two things here come
Sylvie di Giusto: together she's a woman and she has an accent, obviously
Sylvie di Giusto: some international background that is often when they make the
Sylvie di Giusto: cheque mark and say, yes, she is our next speaker.
Sylvie di Giusto: So even if you think that one of your weaknesses is
Sylvie di Giusto: holding you back, consider for a moment if it actually
Sylvie di Giusto: could be your superpower and if you could use it to your
Sylvie di Giusto: advantage. Love
Joanne Lockwood: that. And sometimes we have to just
Joanne Lockwood: accept that we're being tokenized. If I boxes,
Joanne Lockwood: there's a paycheck. Thank you very much. If I don't, you're going to give it
Joanne Lockwood: to somebody else, so why won't I take it? And I did a conference
Joanne Lockwood: in Berlin, 2018. It was
Joanne Lockwood: my first proper keynote. I got invited to speak in front of 700
Joanne Lockwood: people, mainly German speakers, with
Joanne Lockwood: I mean, speaking English is not a problem in most parts of Germany, but there
Joanne Lockwood: was a simultaneous translation of the earpieces and all the stuff at the back of
Joanne Lockwood: the room. And I stood up in front of this audience and delivered a talk
Joanne Lockwood: on the power of words. And honestly, it was the first proper
Joanne Lockwood: keynote. I'd done well in that size of audience. I'd done little things,
Joanne Lockwood: small stages. So my impostor syndrome was going mental.
Joanne Lockwood: And I remember standing on stage and as I walked up,
Joanne Lockwood: I just paused and I walked to the other end of the stage and I
Joanne Lockwood: just paused and looked at the audience and I walked back. Then I delivered my
Joanne Lockwood: opening line. And
Joanne Lockwood: what happened was the audience hadn't
Joanne Lockwood: appreciated that I was transgender because it wasn't part of my bio. It was
Joanne Lockwood: just, here's Joanne, she's here to talk about it. Most of the audience were
Joanne Lockwood: that big. It was quite tiny because it's a big stage and see
Joanne Lockwood: me and someone came up to me afterwards and they said,
Joanne Lockwood: wow, you had me captivated. Because in that
Joanne Lockwood: opening sentence, your voice
Joanne Lockwood: boomed out and it was so disconnected from your appearance that I
Joanne Lockwood: was captivated by it. And that taught me that
Joanne Lockwood: my voice is part of my brand as well.
Joanne Lockwood: However much sometimes it frustrates me that it's a bit too deep, bit too
Joanne Lockwood: resonant. It is a superpower that I am
Joanne Lockwood: able to grab people's attention and
Joanne Lockwood: people do tell me it's quite a smooth radio voice. It's easy to listen
Joanne Lockwood: to. So I think, well, let's just own it. It's not the
Joanne Lockwood: voice I've chosen, but it's mine and let's use it.
Sylvie di Giusto: Absolutely. Use it to your advantage.
Joanne Lockwood: Sylvie, it's been amazing. I mean, we've been talking almost an. Hour,
Sylvie di Giusto: all the places that we went, right? I'm so fascinated.
Sylvie di Giusto: It has been such a great conversation with you. Thank you
Sylvie di Giusto: so much for inviting me. I'm so honoured to be your
Sylvie di Giusto: guest and so glad that we reconnected. And I hope this is
Sylvie di Giusto: not going to be the last conversation you and I have.
Joanne Lockwood: I mean, for sure, you're going to be in the UK in October
Joanne Lockwood: next year for the Professional
Joanne Lockwood: Speaking Association UK and Ireland Conference summit
Joanne Lockwood: in Birmingham. So we're definitely going to see each other there. And who
Joanne Lockwood: knows, we may bump into each other somewhere in the world in the meantime.
Joanne Lockwood: And if we do, that'd be amazing. Yes. How can
Joanne Lockwood: people get hold of you? Your name isn't
Joanne Lockwood: obvious from the pronunciation. So what's
Joanne Lockwood: your website? What's your LinkedIn profile? How do you spell your name?
Sylvie di Giusto: Well, everything goes along with my name, which
Sylvie di Giusto: is not an easy one.
Sylvie di Giusto: https://sylviedigiusto.com.
Sylvie di Giusto: But here's the trick. If you google first impressions or
Sylvie di Giusto: first impression and speaker and I don't show up on that list, then you
Sylvie di Giusto: probably don't have internet, so there are many
Sylvie di Giusto: ways to find me. I'm very active on
Sylvie di Giusto: Instagram, I'm very active on LinkedIn.
Sylvie di Giusto: Always reach out to me if you have any
Sylvie di Giusto: questions about first impressions or
Sylvie di Giusto: everything beyond Joanne's or Jo's. Friends are
Sylvie di Giusto: my friends and I would love to help you in any way.
Joanne Lockwood: Brilliant. And I've been on Sylvie's website and
Joanne Lockwood: if you're looking for a great example of a speaker
Joanne Lockwood: website, Sylvie's website is top notch and
Joanne Lockwood: I'm actually in awe of it, thinking, well, I feel so inadequate by the side
Joanne Lockwood: of it. But it's a great example. The show reels are there, all your
Joanne Lockwood: programmes are there, your testimonials are there, and it is honour to have
Joanne Lockwood: you on the show today. So thank you so much and I really do look
Joanne Lockwood: forward to keeping in your
Joanne Lockwood: circle as a business friend and networking and meeting up some other place as
Joanne Lockwood: well. So thank you so much and a huge thank you
Joanne Lockwood: also to you, the listeners, for tuning in, for getting this
Joanne Lockwood: far. I really appreciate it. Please do subscribe and keep
Joanne Lockwood: updated on future episodes of the Inclusion Bites podcast. That's
Joanne Lockwood: bites. Please share with your colleagues and
Joanne Lockwood: friends. Share the link, reshare the LinkedIn
Joanne Lockwood: post. I have a number of other excited guests lined up that I'm sure you'd
Joanne Lockwood: be equally inspired by over the next few weeks and months. And, of course, if
Joanne Lockwood: you'd like to be a guest, I'd love to hear from you. And I'd also
Joanne Lockwood: welcome any feedback and suggestions how we can improve. My
Joanne Lockwood: email address is Jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen co uk. And
Joanne Lockwood: finally, my name is Joanne Lockwood. It's been an absolute pleasure
Joanne Lockwood: to host this podcast for you today. Catch you next time. Bye.