WEBVTT 00:00:01.580 --> 00:00:04.912 You. Hello, 00:00:04.966 --> 00:00:08.464 everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood and I'm your host for the 00:00:08.502 --> 00:00:12.256 Inclusion Bites podcast. In this series, I have interviewed a number 00:00:12.278 --> 00:00:15.456 of amazing people as simply had a conversation around the subject of 00:00:15.478 --> 00:00:19.104 inclusion, belonging and generally making the world a. Better 00:00:19.142 --> 00:00:22.992 place for everyone to thrive. So, to join me in the future. Then, please 00:00:23.046 --> 00:00:24.096 do drop me a line. To 00:00:24.118 --> 00:00:27.192 Jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 00:00:27.246 --> 00:00:30.632 that's SEE Change Happen do co 00:00:30.686 --> 00:00:34.216 dot uk. You can catch up with all of. The previous shows on 00:00:34.238 --> 00:00:37.944 itunes, Spotify and the usual places. So 00:00:37.982 --> 00:00:41.564 plug in your headphones, grab a decaf and let's get 00:00:41.602 --> 00:00:45.112 going. Today is Episode 00:00:45.176 --> 00:00:48.600 76 with the title Awakening 00:00:48.680 --> 00:00:52.256 Dreams. And I have the absolute honour and. Privilege to 00:00:52.278 --> 00:00:55.920 welcome my guest today, Ian Hatton. 00:00:56.500 --> 00:00:59.772 Ian describes himself as someone who builds conscious 00:00:59.836 --> 00:01:03.536 leaders. And when I asked Ian to describe. His superpower, he 00:01:03.558 --> 00:01:07.088 said radical self acceptance of his flaws 00:01:07.264 --> 00:01:10.564 that enables him to. Radically accept others, 00:01:10.762 --> 00:01:14.276 no matter what. Hello, Ian, welcome to the 00:01:14.298 --> 00:01:18.136 show. Hi, Joe. It's so good to be here. I've been 00:01:18.158 --> 00:01:21.896 looking forward to this since. We met in October. Yes, we did. In 00:01:21.918 --> 00:01:25.656 Dublin, wasn't it? At a global Dublin? Indeed, yes, it 00:01:25.678 --> 00:01:29.160 was. Brilliant day. Ian, tell me, 00:01:29.310 --> 00:01:31.950 Awakening Dreams, what's that about? 00:01:33.360 --> 00:01:37.196 So, Jo, it's a bit of a long story, but it goes back more 00:01:37.218 --> 00:01:40.956 than 20 years, where some friends and I got together and 00:01:40.978 --> 00:01:44.488 we said, who are we? Sort of mythically and mystically, just 00:01:44.514 --> 00:01:48.112 as a way of discovering more of our own uniqueness. And 00:01:48.246 --> 00:01:52.016 various of my friends came up with all sorts of ideas and I 00:01:52.038 --> 00:01:55.616 came back and said, I'm blank, I'm stumped, I'm coming up with 00:01:55.638 --> 00:01:59.444 nothing. And one of my friends looked up and she said, but yet 00:01:59.482 --> 00:02:03.156 it's obvious you're morpheus. And I said, what do you 00:02:03.178 --> 00:02:06.904 mean, I'm morpheus? I wish I was morpheus. And everybody else 00:02:06.942 --> 00:02:09.864 turned and said, you are. You are 00:02:09.982 --> 00:02:13.476 morpheus. And the one who awakens 00:02:13.508 --> 00:02:16.490 dreams. The Greek god of dreams, the one who 00:02:17.100 --> 00:02:20.876 believes. And everybody else has stopped believing. Not the hero, but the one 00:02:20.898 --> 00:02:24.124 who raises up the hero. And I came to 00:02:24.162 --> 00:02:27.390 identify with myself as Morpheus. And 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:31.224 I am one who awakens dreams in others, 00:02:31.362 --> 00:02:35.010 leadership dreams, dreams to influence and leave the world a better place. 00:02:36.180 --> 00:02:39.664 I love that. I love that. Just picked up you said that. The 00:02:39.702 --> 00:02:43.520 creator of heroes, the unsung, 00:02:44.660 --> 00:02:48.412 the teddy's coach of the greats, if you like, the the leadership 00:02:48.476 --> 00:02:51.764 coat, the coach of the greats. It's too 00:02:51.802 --> 00:02:55.110 often we find that the. If you like, 00:02:56.040 --> 00:02:59.556 the guru wants the limelight. But what you're saying there 00:02:59.578 --> 00:03:03.336 is you are the supporter, you are the promoter, you are the person that 00:03:03.358 --> 00:03:06.984 gets the person to their dreams. It's not about and your 00:03:07.022 --> 00:03:10.824 dream is. To get them to their dream, if you like. Exactly. That is 00:03:10.862 --> 00:03:14.524 exactly what it's about. And nothing gives me a greater thrill. And I don't mind 00:03:14.562 --> 00:03:18.348 the limelight, I don't mind being on stage, giving keynote speeches and all 00:03:18.354 --> 00:03:22.060 the rest of it, but my real success is 20 years 00:03:22.130 --> 00:03:25.808 later, what are they saying? And I've got 00:03:25.974 --> 00:03:29.552 two examples of young people in South Africa well, they were young 00:03:29.606 --> 00:03:33.072 20 years ago, who I met and spent a lot of time with 00:03:33.126 --> 00:03:36.944 and who now how running either in senior 00:03:36.992 --> 00:03:40.292 leadership positions or their own businesses very 00:03:40.346 --> 00:03:43.604 successfully. And that, to me, is the 00:03:43.642 --> 00:03:47.304 real glory I want is what 00:03:47.342 --> 00:03:49.050 they do. Not what I do. 00:03:53.660 --> 00:03:56.730 I'd love to see that replicated in other 00:03:58.380 --> 00:04:01.832 leadership development because yes, I 00:04:01.886 --> 00:04:05.052 appreciate you want the line, right? You want the glory, you want more business coming. 00:04:05.106 --> 00:04:08.776 Obviously we all do, but I think as speakers, we often recognise 00:04:08.808 --> 00:04:11.548 it's not about us, is it? It's about the audience. It's about the people who 00:04:11.554 --> 00:04:15.150 are inspiring and it really helps to ground us in that. 00:04:15.860 --> 00:04:19.484 Joanne, one of the most humbling lessons I've ever learned 00:04:19.612 --> 00:04:23.170 was somebody once said to me a quite a good orator said to me, 00:04:23.640 --> 00:04:27.376 Eloquence is in the audience. And I was like, no, no, I'm 00:04:27.408 --> 00:04:31.204 the eloquent, it's in me. And eventually I became to 00:04:31.242 --> 00:04:34.884 realise that the audience drew it out 00:04:34.922 --> 00:04:38.472 from me and that the audience was what was the 00:04:38.526 --> 00:04:41.930 missing ingredient between me being eloquent or not. 00:04:44.620 --> 00:04:47.690 It's all about the audience. It's not about me at all. 00:04:50.300 --> 00:04:53.976 When we were talking before we went live, you were talking about conscious 00:04:54.088 --> 00:04:57.612 leadership. So what's that? 00:04:57.746 --> 00:05:01.176 Consciousness? I presume there must be an unconscious leadership 00:05:01.208 --> 00:05:04.736 or a lack of consciousness leadership. So what do you mean by 00:05:04.758 --> 00:05:08.144 conscious leadership? Well, it's a very all 00:05:08.182 --> 00:05:11.984 encompassing term and when I left the computer industry just over 00:05:12.022 --> 00:05:15.620 20 years ago to follow this new career, my second career, 00:05:16.200 --> 00:05:19.892 I was very excited about a concept I'd learnt about 00:05:19.946 --> 00:05:23.748 called authentic leadership, where people bring their truest selves and 00:05:23.754 --> 00:05:27.456 they lead from that. But that's evolved and the term 00:05:27.488 --> 00:05:31.208 conscious leadership has only emerged since about 2016. So it's a 00:05:31.214 --> 00:05:34.996 fairly new idea, but it builds on this idea of authentic 00:05:35.028 --> 00:05:38.580 leadership. So conscious leaders are conscious of themselves 00:05:38.750 --> 00:05:42.248 and that means everything personality, 00:05:42.424 --> 00:05:46.088 strengths, weaknesses, intuitions. It's 00:05:46.104 --> 00:05:49.928 not just head, it's heart as well. Body, even. We're 00:05:49.944 --> 00:05:53.756 not just brains on sticks. There's a whole lot of stuff about being aware 00:05:53.788 --> 00:05:56.672 of the fullness of who we are, but 00:05:56.726 --> 00:06:00.112 simultaneously the same for their people. Their 00:06:00.166 --> 00:06:03.956 consciousness of self becomes a consciousness of other. And looking 00:06:03.978 --> 00:06:07.604 at the diversity there and the different strengths and 00:06:07.642 --> 00:06:10.630 weaknesses and preferences and 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:14.496 wirings and all of these things, and again, it's mental, it's 00:06:14.528 --> 00:06:18.200 physical, it's heart, it's intuition, it's all these things. 00:06:18.350 --> 00:06:21.464 And then perhaps even beyond being aware of our planet and 00:06:21.502 --> 00:06:25.124 consciousness of the ecological 00:06:25.172 --> 00:06:28.824 things that are happening and that sort of thing. So it 00:06:28.862 --> 00:06:32.504 includes this full variety and a conscious 00:06:32.552 --> 00:06:36.124 leader is somebody who leads with conscious in all of those 00:06:36.162 --> 00:06:39.948 areas. Yeah. Picking up 00:06:39.954 --> 00:06:42.610 what you say. I was talking about this the other night with somebody. And 00:06:44.580 --> 00:06:47.824 it's down to some of it, it's down to your personal brand. We talk about 00:06:47.862 --> 00:06:51.200 marketing term and it's who you 00:06:51.270 --> 00:06:54.960 are, what you stand for and what people can expect 00:06:55.030 --> 00:06:58.596 from you. And that's our brand, isn't it? Wherever you want to boil that down. 00:06:58.698 --> 00:07:01.664 And I was talking to him the other day about we have to now factor 00:07:01.712 --> 00:07:04.944 in to our brand, our planetary 00:07:04.992 --> 00:07:08.260 considerations, our environmental, our sustainability, 00:07:09.180 --> 00:07:12.904 our impact on the planet has to be part of our personal brand as well 00:07:13.022 --> 00:07:16.744 because we know that our brand either turns people on or turns people 00:07:16.782 --> 00:07:20.536 off. So if we're gas 00:07:20.568 --> 00:07:24.396 guzzling, polluting brand, we know that's going to have 00:07:24.418 --> 00:07:28.236 an impact on our clients, our audience, whoever that may be. That 00:07:28.258 --> 00:07:31.896 is totally true. And again, one example is that I've 00:07:31.928 --> 00:07:35.312 got twelve leaders on a one year journey with me. 00:07:35.446 --> 00:07:39.104 And one of them I met with Lost earlier this 00:07:39.142 --> 00:07:42.944 week and I was asking him, so what do you want 00:07:42.982 --> 00:07:46.720 to shift at the next year? What lies ahead for you? 00:07:46.870 --> 00:07:50.564 What is the next step in you and your leadership? And 00:07:50.602 --> 00:07:53.460 it took a little while and eventually said, you know what, this is the year 00:07:53.530 --> 00:07:57.236 that he wants to establish his personal brand. And it's 00:07:57.268 --> 00:08:00.984 exactly this. It's all encompassing. It's drawing on his 00:08:01.022 --> 00:08:04.600 strengths, being aware and releasing his, 00:08:04.670 --> 00:08:08.424 his weaknesses, you know, teeming for weakness and being 00:08:08.462 --> 00:08:12.124 conscious of that. And the same with his people and his 00:08:12.162 --> 00:08:15.596 impact on the planet. He's very, very interested in the 00:08:15.618 --> 00:08:19.244 African context, in agriculture and 00:08:19.362 --> 00:08:23.184 how agriculture impacts things. And it's all of that he wants 00:08:23.222 --> 00:08:25.970 to include in his personal brand story. 00:08:28.020 --> 00:08:31.344 Yeah, Gen Z, 00:08:31.542 --> 00:08:35.228 the emerging generations that are our future leaders. You're 00:08:35.244 --> 00:08:38.950 probably even seeing some early Gen Zed leaders already. 00:08:40.520 --> 00:08:43.812 That is really, really important. And certainly when we look at Gen 00:08:43.866 --> 00:08:47.556 Zed's follower, the Gen Beetle, Gen Alpha, we will 00:08:47.578 --> 00:08:50.900 see more of this consciousness. Around, well, 00:08:50.970 --> 00:08:54.456 consciousness about identity, conscious about. Who they are, consciousness about their 00:08:54.478 --> 00:08:57.992 environment and how they want to be treated and respect is completely different 00:08:58.046 --> 00:09:01.880 to I'm a Gen Xer millennials or Boomers. 00:09:02.220 --> 00:09:05.036 We have a different view of the world, don't we? And it's going to be 00:09:05.058 --> 00:09:08.270 really important. And you know what else 00:09:08.640 --> 00:09:12.432 linked with that? You said, well, if they're conscious leaders, are there also 00:09:12.486 --> 00:09:16.236 unconscious leaders? And the people who are going to struggle 00:09:16.268 --> 00:09:19.984 the most with these new generations coming through is the ones 00:09:20.022 --> 00:09:23.744 who are leading unconsciously because they really will 00:09:23.782 --> 00:09:27.504 struggle. And what we're finding is conscious leadership is very appealing 00:09:27.632 --> 00:09:31.092 to the new leaders coming through and the new workforce coming 00:09:31.146 --> 00:09:34.720 through. And so this idea of conscious leadership 00:09:34.880 --> 00:09:38.664 is critical. And we are already seeing the first Gen Z or Gen 00:09:38.702 --> 00:09:42.056 Z leaders coming through and 00:09:42.238 --> 00:09:45.764 they absolutely have an awareness that we haven't 00:09:45.812 --> 00:09:49.464 seen previously. And I'm often working 00:09:49.502 --> 00:09:53.336 with some older generation, even baby boomer leaders, and 00:09:53.358 --> 00:09:57.084 they're going, they don't know how to handle these people. And they start complaining about 00:09:57.122 --> 00:10:00.284 all the gen zeds and then I say, have you thought of flipping it around 00:10:00.322 --> 00:10:04.076 and thinking of the advantages that they bring? And we start listing 00:10:04.108 --> 00:10:07.884 them and their jaws drop open when they realise how unconscious they've 00:10:07.932 --> 00:10:11.696 been to the incredible strengths and identity and 00:10:11.718 --> 00:10:15.284 diversity and awareness that. The new 00:10:15.322 --> 00:10:18.916 generations bring. Yeah, the way they communicate, the way they 00:10:18.938 --> 00:10:22.708 collaborate. They're more collaborative, I believe, just in. 00:10:22.714 --> 00:10:26.464 Terms of more collaborative, yes. More micro 00:10:26.512 --> 00:10:28.980 interactions, more asynchronous communication. 00:10:30.700 --> 00:10:34.440 There's a lot more trust, maybe, as well. I think we go back to 00:10:34.590 --> 00:10:38.264 my. Generation and older, it's very much command and control. It's very much, 00:10:38.302 --> 00:10:42.136 if I can't see you, I can't trust you, I need status reports, 00:10:42.168 --> 00:10:44.750 I need updates all the time, I need to know what you're doing. 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:50.430 We're not seeing that in the newer leaders, are we? No, 00:10:50.880 --> 00:10:54.704 much more awareness, trust. And 00:10:54.742 --> 00:10:58.192 in fact, what we're seeing is that so much 00:10:58.246 --> 00:11:01.888 where the old style leadership tries to 00:11:01.974 --> 00:11:05.652 clamp down, it breaks trust and it slows everything down. So 00:11:05.706 --> 00:11:09.396 there's advantages in this high trust environment that is this 00:11:09.418 --> 00:11:13.236 more inclusive environment where things can speed up. So what 00:11:13.258 --> 00:11:16.724 you'll find is, in low trust environments, leaders are 00:11:16.762 --> 00:11:20.424 creating this sort of clamp down space, as you said, command and 00:11:20.462 --> 00:11:24.152 control. And the command and control space means people 00:11:24.206 --> 00:11:27.770 spend time off task. They are now doing the 00:11:29.040 --> 00:11:32.700 covering my. Rear end activities as opposed to the actual 00:11:32.770 --> 00:11:35.550 task. It's all the report. 00:11:36.560 --> 00:11:40.316 There's layers and layers and layers and I don't know about you, 00:11:40.338 --> 00:11:43.804 but I'm a big fan of Trello and some. Of these new tools 00:11:43.852 --> 00:11:47.660 where I'm not. Saying I'm an Agile 00:11:47.740 --> 00:11:51.584 Scrum Master or Agile Project Manager myself, but I like the idea of 00:11:51.622 --> 00:11:55.216 having micro, these sprints, these little activities. We're not 00:11:55.318 --> 00:11:58.276 big monolithic projects where we. Get to the end, look over our shoulder and go, 00:11:58.298 --> 00:12:02.116 oh, we've missed something. It's collaborative all the way through, isn't it, now? And 00:12:02.138 --> 00:12:05.910 that's a nightmare for some, but. I think 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:10.176 modern ways of working are much more about touch points, keeping 00:12:10.208 --> 00:12:13.976 in touch toolbox talks or start a day Scrum type 00:12:13.998 --> 00:12:17.160 things. How are we doing this week? What are our problems? What are our challenges? 00:12:17.580 --> 00:12:19.950 Let's get on with it, then. Exactly. 00:12:22.400 --> 00:12:26.104 And the new tools are coming through. I was working with some leaders 00:12:26.152 --> 00:12:29.372 recently in a big global company and I was saying, 00:12:29.426 --> 00:12:32.920 so how competent are you with the new tools? 00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:36.864 And they will well, they still rely on email and I'm saying, 00:12:36.902 --> 00:12:40.604 well, email is not a collaboration tool and they were in a state of shock. 00:12:40.732 --> 00:12:44.544 And I'm going, well, there's so many collaboration tools 00:12:44.592 --> 00:12:47.812 out there. Email is based 00:12:47.866 --> 00:12:51.508 on the Memo in, Memo out, which was more than 00:12:51.514 --> 00:12:55.284 100 years old. These days we're looking to 00:12:55.322 --> 00:12:58.984 collaborate, but we want to do it virtually. So can 00:12:59.022 --> 00:13:02.868 you master these tools? And they realise that some of their biggest gaps 00:13:02.884 --> 00:13:06.584 in their leadership is they were blind to the tools that were 00:13:06.622 --> 00:13:10.284 available and the mastery required to be. Able to 00:13:10.322 --> 00:13:13.790 collaborate in that way. So 00:13:14.160 --> 00:13:17.836 let me ask you, I think I know you answers this 00:13:18.018 --> 00:13:21.852 are leaders. Born or are they bred? My answer 00:13:21.906 --> 00:13:25.616 is yes. And what 00:13:25.638 --> 00:13:29.376 I mean by that is that not everybody's going to be a Mahatma gunda or 00:13:29.398 --> 00:13:33.164 a Nelson Mandela or a Martin Luther King Jr. Or Mother 00:13:33.212 --> 00:13:36.916 Teresa or whoever you want to use as an example. Because I 00:13:36.938 --> 00:13:40.548 think there is an element of wiring for certain 00:13:40.634 --> 00:13:44.468 types of leadership. But if you then 00:13:44.554 --> 00:13:47.848 go back and. Let me just use those exact names I've just used 00:13:48.014 --> 00:13:51.690 gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr. Nelson Mandela and 00:13:52.700 --> 00:13:56.120 Mother Teresa. You'll find between them 00:13:56.270 --> 00:14:00.120 there isn't one style of leadership. They're incredibly 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:03.884 diverse in the way that they led, what they brought. And so for 00:14:03.922 --> 00:14:07.724 me, real leadership is discovering who you really are 00:14:07.842 --> 00:14:11.596 and bringing that to the influence 00:14:11.628 --> 00:14:14.450 that you want to bring on the world. And so 00:14:15.780 --> 00:14:19.628 there is this idea that I've never met a leader who wasn't 00:14:19.644 --> 00:14:20.320 born, 00:14:23.800 --> 00:14:26.980 but then again, I've never met a good one who wasn't also 00:14:27.050 --> 00:14:30.608 made. Look at Nelson Mandela's 00:14:30.624 --> 00:14:34.292 27 years in prison. That made him in so many 00:14:34.346 --> 00:14:38.036 ways. When we look at the 00:14:38.058 --> 00:14:41.832 idea of yes, we need to be teachable, in fact, one of the most 00:14:41.886 --> 00:14:45.576 fatal flaws of leadership is to not be teachable. And so we do want to 00:14:45.598 --> 00:14:49.032 grow, but actually we all have the opportunity to lead, 00:14:49.166 --> 00:14:52.028 whether it is as a parent, you're a leader. If you're a teacher, you're a 00:14:52.034 --> 00:14:55.864 leader. If you're a friend or a consultant or you're 00:14:55.912 --> 00:14:59.660 influencing the moment, you're influencing others, you are a leader. You might never 00:14:59.730 --> 00:15:03.468 become the President of the United States, but those are 00:15:03.474 --> 00:15:06.928 not the only leaders in the world. Anybody who influences others is a 00:15:06.934 --> 00:15:10.656 leader. I always say that we are all 00:15:10.678 --> 00:15:14.512 inherently leaders. We have to lead ourselves, we have to see example, this social 00:15:14.566 --> 00:15:17.364 influence, all those kind of things. So, yeah, I'm a great believer in that and 00:15:17.402 --> 00:15:20.804 I completely agree that some people do have a kind of an 00:15:20.842 --> 00:15:24.212 innate personality trait that makes whether it's their 00:15:24.266 --> 00:15:27.830 confidence or something that is not learnt, it's just part of who they are. 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:32.104 The danger is we're not careful. We believe that certain people are 00:15:32.142 --> 00:15:35.400 better at leading, which again leads to biases 00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:39.524 and denial of opportunity. For people who are not ticking 00:15:39.572 --> 00:15:43.244 those boxes, maybe their voice isn't as powerful or as strong, 00:15:43.442 --> 00:15:47.112 therefore they have less authority when they speak and those kind of styles. 00:15:47.176 --> 00:15:50.812 But as you just mentioned, Mother Teresa, she didn't have 00:15:50.946 --> 00:15:54.624 a loud, authoritative stance or voice, yet she still 00:15:54.662 --> 00:15:57.250 influenced many millions. Exactly. 00:15:58.100 --> 00:16:01.632 And this idea of bringing your unique self to me 00:16:01.686 --> 00:16:05.504 is so central to it. So one of the things I've had 00:16:05.542 --> 00:16:09.328 before is I've had people come up to me during training when I'm 00:16:09.344 --> 00:16:13.124 showing them a particular leadership technique. In other words, the part 00:16:13.162 --> 00:16:16.948 of being made as a leader. And I've had them come to me and 00:16:16.954 --> 00:16:20.456 say, no, but surely we should just reject all of this and I should just 00:16:20.478 --> 00:16:24.040 try and be more like Steve Jobs. And then I go and I say, okay, 00:16:24.110 --> 00:16:27.556 fine. Have you heard Steve Jobs's commencement 00:16:27.588 --> 00:16:31.356 speech? Because his commencement speech says, if you want 00:16:31.378 --> 00:16:35.212 to have your biggest impact on the world, you need to be your unique self. 00:16:35.346 --> 00:16:38.670 In other words, Steve Jobs himself said, don't be like me. 00:16:41.040 --> 00:16:44.672 Yes, we can learn techniques from others, but there is 00:16:44.726 --> 00:16:48.144 something about our unique impact on the world is going to be 00:16:48.182 --> 00:16:51.884 based on the full diversity of. Uniqueness 00:16:51.932 --> 00:16:55.616 that is within us. Yeah. And you can't suddenly 00:16:55.648 --> 00:16:58.470 start shouting and screaming at people, for 00:16:59.960 --> 00:17:03.620 as Steve Jobs often did, and without without building 00:17:03.690 --> 00:17:07.536 up your credentials as a leader to have that level of respect, 00:17:07.568 --> 00:17:10.410 you can't just suddenly think or be Steve Jobs and act like 00:17:11.260 --> 00:17:12.970 him and get away with it. 00:17:14.860 --> 00:17:18.692 Very successful leaders who never shouted and screamed at anybody. Yeah, 00:17:18.766 --> 00:17:22.270 exactly. And different styles and yeah, 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.508 we're seeing it now with I won't mention the 00:17:26.514 --> 00:17:30.360 person's name, but Twitter and Tesla and SpaceX. 00:17:30.520 --> 00:17:33.984 So that leadership, again, is different. But there's a 00:17:34.022 --> 00:17:37.488 neurodiversity in there as well. So we got to remember that not everybody 00:17:37.654 --> 00:17:41.504 is neurotypical, whatever that means to people. And 00:17:41.542 --> 00:17:45.012 people have different approaches where empathy and compassion or 00:17:45.066 --> 00:17:48.464 even logical clear thinking. Isn'T a factor in everybody's leadership 00:17:48.512 --> 00:17:49.990 style. Exactly. 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:57.480 How do you build the marriage between 00:17:57.550 --> 00:18:01.256 authenticity and consciousness? Because 00:18:01.438 --> 00:18:05.080 for me, when we think about, say, EQ, emotional intelligence, 00:18:05.740 --> 00:18:08.996 part of that is about self awareness and then self regulation. If you're self 00:18:09.038 --> 00:18:12.796 regulating, do you lose. Some of your authenticity? If 00:18:12.818 --> 00:18:16.636 we're learning to be leaders and learning adapting our style, what 00:18:16.658 --> 00:18:19.310 is the true self? Are we putting a mask on? 00:18:21.540 --> 00:18:25.008 I love this question. It's actually one of my favourite questions and 00:18:25.094 --> 00:18:28.512 it's brilliantly worded. Thank you. So, Jo, in this 00:18:28.566 --> 00:18:32.144 case, emotional intelligence does 00:18:32.182 --> 00:18:35.936 include a level of self management and that, to 00:18:35.958 --> 00:18:39.748 me, actually does align with consciousness. So if you take, for example, 00:18:39.914 --> 00:18:43.744 the person who has a really bad day at work and they arrive 00:18:43.792 --> 00:18:46.576 home and the dog does something and the first thing they do is they kick 00:18:46.608 --> 00:18:49.844 the dog, that, to me is not conscious 00:18:49.892 --> 00:18:53.624 leadership because it wasn't the dog's fault that they had a bad day 00:18:53.662 --> 00:18:57.096 at work. Or conversely, I had a row with my 00:18:57.118 --> 00:19:00.316 partner this morning and I arrive at work and I now take it out on 00:19:00.338 --> 00:19:03.996 my staff. It may be authentic, but it is 00:19:04.018 --> 00:19:07.660 not conscious and conscious leadership. But the idea 00:19:07.730 --> 00:19:11.070 for me of authentic is that I 00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:14.480 am self examining, I'm self aware. 00:19:15.140 --> 00:19:18.384 I am going to bring my unique personality, my 00:19:18.422 --> 00:19:21.916 genius. I'm very simultaneously aware 00:19:22.028 --> 00:19:25.110 that I have areas where I have 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:29.268 debilitating weaknesses or areas where 00:19:29.354 --> 00:19:31.460 I actually feel quite stupid. 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.268 I want to be aware and authentic about all of that and say, 00:19:37.354 --> 00:19:40.696 I know where I need help and let me get that help, let me be 00:19:40.718 --> 00:19:44.564 vulnerable enough to get that help, let me be transparent 00:19:44.612 --> 00:19:48.104 enough. And that is really what I mean by authentic. Authentic is 00:19:48.142 --> 00:19:51.672 not I'm just going to vent and take out 00:19:51.726 --> 00:19:55.516 something that's there and bring it and project it over here. That to me 00:19:55.538 --> 00:19:59.112 is not conscious. And that's perhaps why I like the graduation 00:19:59.176 --> 00:20:02.796 from my thinking around authentic leadership towards conscious leadership. 00:20:02.828 --> 00:20:06.304 Because it's a 00:20:06.342 --> 00:20:09.504 better managed type of. Leadership but it's still 00:20:09.542 --> 00:20:13.196 authentic. Yeah, I completely agree and unless 00:20:13.228 --> 00:20:16.800 you use the word in their vulnerability, I'm a great believer. Vulnerability, 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:20.448 humility are core skills 00:20:20.624 --> 00:20:24.276 for great leaders in today's world. How do 00:20:24.298 --> 00:20:27.880 you get leaders to accept their vulnerability and humility? 00:20:30.540 --> 00:20:33.610 It's a very tricky area that I work and 00:20:34.700 --> 00:20:38.250 I don't think I've got one answer for that question, 00:20:38.620 --> 00:20:42.296 but we can talk about it from so many different facets and paint 00:20:42.328 --> 00:20:46.108 the picture. So for example, if we're talking about trust, 00:20:46.274 --> 00:20:49.980 so many people say, oh, well, I don't know how important 00:20:50.050 --> 00:20:53.664 this trust is and I just need to be myself and this sort of thing. 00:20:53.782 --> 00:20:57.632 And what we've seen as the research is emerging from trust is that trust 00:20:57.686 --> 00:21:01.424 is in some ways the precursor and more important to 00:21:01.622 --> 00:21:05.336 than engagement without trust. And the consequences 00:21:05.388 --> 00:21:08.756 of low trust are actually more extreme than the 00:21:08.778 --> 00:21:12.596 consequences of not having people fully engaged. And 00:21:12.618 --> 00:21:16.148 so you start talking about, so how do you build trust? And everybody kind of 00:21:16.154 --> 00:21:19.640 goes, oh well, I've got integrity. And then you say, okay, 00:21:19.790 --> 00:21:23.624 do you have integrity with yourself? And now 00:21:23.662 --> 00:21:27.176 suddenly they're taken aback. What do you mean? I say, well, 00:21:27.358 --> 00:21:30.684 when you commit to something in your own life, do you always do 00:21:30.722 --> 00:21:34.380 it? Are you authentic with yourself? Are you able 00:21:34.450 --> 00:21:38.268 to build that authenticity with self? And then 00:21:38.434 --> 00:21:42.056 they kind of start to. Realise this is quite tricky 00:21:42.088 --> 00:21:45.564 now and say, well, if you're saying, well, I always practise 00:21:45.612 --> 00:21:48.530 integrity with my people but. I don't have integrity with myself, 00:21:49.620 --> 00:21:53.456 where. Does that leave you? Are they not picking up on that lack of 00:21:53.478 --> 00:21:57.012 integrity with self? What do they think? If you say, 00:21:57.066 --> 00:22:00.580 well, yes, I'm true to my word, and then they hear 00:22:00.650 --> 00:22:04.416 you lying to your partner or even lying 00:22:04.448 --> 00:22:08.292 to yourself, there's this whole thing of a realisation 00:22:08.436 --> 00:22:11.976 that there's a piece of 00:22:11.998 --> 00:22:15.256 vulnerability that if that's not in. Place, you cannot be 00:22:15.278 --> 00:22:18.856 trusted and if. You cannot be trusted, what's the impact on your 00:22:18.878 --> 00:22:22.540 leadership? And so it's sort of building the case. And 00:22:22.610 --> 00:22:26.376 trust is just one area that I work with that I think there's 00:22:26.408 --> 00:22:30.204 so many others. I mean, another one, probably one 00:22:30.242 --> 00:22:33.950 that's very intuitive and obvious to you, is that 00:22:34.260 --> 00:22:37.968 if you want people to open up, you start by opening up. 00:22:38.134 --> 00:22:41.744 There is nothing that will trigger others to open up quicker than you 00:22:41.782 --> 00:22:45.456 opening up. And so without vulnerability? Are you going to really know 00:22:45.478 --> 00:22:47.892 what's going on with your people? Are you going to know what the real issues 00:22:47.946 --> 00:22:51.780 are? If there's a potential safety issue or quality 00:22:51.850 --> 00:22:55.600 issue, is anybody going to speak up if you're not prepared to be vulnerable, 00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:57.160 will they be vulnerable? 00:23:00.940 --> 00:23:04.696 My biggest principle of conscious leadership is it starts with self. In 00:23:04.718 --> 00:23:08.456 fact, my favourite saying for conscious leaders is, I 00:23:08.478 --> 00:23:12.156 am my number one job every day. I'm not my only job. 00:23:12.258 --> 00:23:16.108 But it starts with self leadership and then goes external. You've got 00:23:16.114 --> 00:23:18.270 to be a little bit. Vulnerable to be able to do that. 00:23:19.840 --> 00:23:23.628 So trust sort of feeds into one of the new buzzwords. 00:23:23.644 --> 00:23:27.376 We're talking about psychological safety, doesn't it? It's making sure that I can 00:23:27.398 --> 00:23:30.960 trust. Me with you, you won't break me. 00:23:31.110 --> 00:23:34.884 Yes. And I think vulnerability is key 00:23:34.922 --> 00:23:38.596 to that, because if we are not vulnerable, how 00:23:38.618 --> 00:23:41.812 do people trust us? How do they know that it's actually 00:23:41.866 --> 00:23:45.110 safe? Yeah, 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:48.516 people want to be listened to, they want to be heard, they want to know 00:23:48.538 --> 00:23:52.388 they can speak up. Yes. And if they don't feel they've got a comfortable environment 00:23:52.404 --> 00:23:55.768 where they can do that, and then that's all parts of the life cycle, the 00:23:55.774 --> 00:23:59.276 recruitment phase, the employment phase, the growing phase, whatever it may 00:23:59.298 --> 00:24:02.604 be, you need to be able to have that confidence that you 00:24:02.642 --> 00:24:06.270 matter and you'll be heard. And 00:24:07.360 --> 00:24:11.116 often we find that people start with, this is 00:24:11.138 --> 00:24:13.840 what I think. Do you agree with me? Type sentences, 00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:20.124 not, hey, team, we got a challenge 00:24:20.172 --> 00:24:23.330 here. Who's got some ideas? Right? And 00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:26.804 it's about flipping the leaders there to coach and 00:24:26.842 --> 00:24:30.036 facilitate and to steer. Not to direct 00:24:30.138 --> 00:24:33.364 almost well. One of the big skills there is 00:24:33.402 --> 00:24:36.944 this almost balance between candour and 00:24:37.002 --> 00:24:40.330 curiosity. To come in and say, 00:24:40.860 --> 00:24:44.536 I think. We have a problem with our clients. This is the picture as 00:24:44.558 --> 00:24:48.104 I see it, and I'm basing that on this. 00:24:48.142 --> 00:24:51.436 Evidence, but I don't know if I'm. Seeing the whole 00:24:51.458 --> 00:24:55.276 picture. So I'd love to hear your opinion and so 00:24:55.298 --> 00:24:59.144 you're bringing in something quite direct, quite candid, but you're 00:24:59.192 --> 00:25:02.956