Joanne Lockwood: Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood, and I'm your host for
Joanne Lockwood: the Inclusion Bytes podcast. In this series, I
Joanne Lockwood: have interviewed a number of amazing people and simply had a conversation
Joanne Lockwood: about the subject of inclusion, belonging, and
Joanne Lockwood: generally making the world a better place for everyone to thrive.
Joanne Lockwood: If you'd like to join me in the future, then please do drop me a
Joanne Lockwood: line to
Joanne Lockwood: jo.lockwood@sechangehappan.co.uk,
Joanne Lockwood: that's S-E-E
Joanne Lockwood: Change Hapen dot Co dot Uk. You can
Joanne Lockwood: catch up with all the previous shows on iTunes, Spotify and the
Joanne Lockwood: usual places. So plug in your headphones,
Joanne Lockwood: grab a decaf, and let's get going.
Joanne Lockwood: Today is episode 97 with
Joanne Lockwood: the title turning setbacks into
Joanne Lockwood: comebacks. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to
Joanne Lockwood: welcome Elsa Caleb. Elsa is a business
Joanne Lockwood: strategist who assists women to develop a robust business plan
Joanne Lockwood: for the future. And when I asked Elsa to describe her
Joanne Lockwood: superpower, she said she can get individuals to think
Joanne Lockwood: differently about their circumstances, especially
Joanne Lockwood: in the world of business. And she was recently
Joanne Lockwood: labelled everyone needs an Elsa.
Joanne Lockwood: Hello, Elsa. Welcome to the show. Hello, Joanne. And
Elsa Caleb: thanks very much for the invitation. Really pleased to be
Elsa Caleb: here. I'm really pleased. We've been talking about this for several
Joanne Lockwood: months, and I'm finally pleased. We got here at the tail
Joanne Lockwood: end of 2023, just before the new year. So absolutely fantastic.
Joanne Lockwood: Elsa, turning setbacks into
Joanne Lockwood: comebacks. Tell me about that. Yeah, it's interesting. And
Elsa Caleb: also the timing of today's show, because we all remember
Elsa Caleb: Brexit. Yeah, we also remember Covid, and now we're
Elsa Caleb: currently going through the cost of living crisis. And the
Elsa Caleb: change of the year was roughly when Brexit kicked in because we
Elsa Caleb: came out of Europe, Covid kicked in in the march. So the
Elsa Caleb: timing now is, I think it's just right for people to begin
Elsa Caleb: to start thinking about what they want to do going forward.
Elsa Caleb: Okay, let's take some of the setbacks. For example, most of the clients
Elsa Caleb: that I meet at the moment, as soon as they meet with me, they always
Elsa Caleb: say before COVID And I'm thinking, if I hear that
Elsa Caleb: again, not that I'll scream, I'll
Elsa Caleb: do something, I don't know, differently, but
Elsa Caleb: once they start with that sentence, I now think,
Elsa Caleb: okay, there's been some setbacks. There's something that's held them back.
Elsa Caleb: They're not as progressive as they were prior to, say,
Elsa Caleb: Covid or even Brexit. It's the changes that have happened
Elsa Caleb: worldwide that have really made an impact on a lot of
Elsa Caleb: individuals'lives, as we all know. And some people just cannot
Elsa Caleb: seem to shake it off. Yeah. So let's take Covid, for
Elsa Caleb: example. A lot of women, for example, had to,
Elsa Caleb: in some cases, give up their livelihood, even if
Elsa Caleb: it means being at home to school children, to do the
Elsa Caleb: schooling for the children. And in some cases, some of them were not equipped.
Elsa Caleb: And also with children, you know, you need space, you need to be
Elsa Caleb: out and about, you need to have the energy to be able to deal with
Elsa Caleb: them. Whereas overnight, people's lives
Elsa Caleb: changed. The way that they had to do things changed. And
Elsa Caleb: it wasn't that they had a choice.
Elsa Caleb: They actually just had to make the changes there and then. And in some cases,
Elsa Caleb: they adapted because they had to. But a bit of them, I felt,
Elsa Caleb: in some cases, have been left behind. So now that the doors have been
Elsa Caleb: opened up and we're actually moving forward, and some people are now saying, oh,
Elsa Caleb: I can't go back to the job that I used to do. I now want
Elsa Caleb: to do something more creative. I'm speaking to
Elsa Caleb: individuals who are saying, look, all I know is to cook,
Elsa Caleb: or all I know is to clean. And I'm saying, well, you know something, let's
Elsa Caleb: work with that. And when you look at all the skills and
Elsa Caleb: experiences that people acquire over the years, and it's things like
Elsa Caleb: being organised, it's things like making cups of tea,
Elsa Caleb: having routines, planning, et cetera, these are some
Elsa Caleb: of the important areas that we need in business.
Elsa Caleb: So once we've had a long conversation, I can start telling them
Elsa Caleb: what they can do with what they have. They begin to
Elsa Caleb: turn their ideas around, they begin to change their mindset, and they
Elsa Caleb: begin to have that tiny
Elsa Caleb: shining light in front of them. In other words, they begin to hope
Elsa Caleb: that there's definitely going to be a positive future. So that's where I always
Elsa Caleb: start. But, yes, of late, it's either
Elsa Caleb: before Brexit, before COVID and now, as I say,
Elsa Caleb: we're going through the crisis. So, yeah, I always feel that if I get them
Elsa Caleb: at that stage and we work together,
Elsa Caleb: put some kind of plan together, they're able to move forward in a positive
Elsa Caleb: way. That's really interesting. Yeah, I never
Joanne Lockwood: thought about it, because Covid is a
Joanne Lockwood: global bookmark, isn't it?
Joanne Lockwood: It's an event that everybody has been aware of, from the
Joanne Lockwood: tip of Africa to the top tip of Alaska, if you
Joanne Lockwood: like. It's affected the entire world. So I suppose it's not
Joanne Lockwood: surprising that we use it as an before and after
Joanne Lockwood: event. You're right. It created life
Joanne Lockwood: changing moments or situations for many people.
Joanne Lockwood: As you say, women largely
Joanne Lockwood: suffered greater inequity because of their responsibility
Joanne Lockwood: for home management. For one of them, home admin,
Joanne Lockwood: children, education, or fitting
Joanne Lockwood: into the. This is a derogatory term, the
Joanne Lockwood: wife mode, if you like, looking after everybody. Often
Joanne Lockwood: seen as the lower paid out
Joanne Lockwood: of the couple, maybe. So they ended up
Joanne Lockwood: taking the kitchen table as opposed to the office table
Joanne Lockwood: or something. The lesser facilities. Yeah. Putting
Joanne Lockwood: their career on hold, definitely. They had to be more creative,
Elsa Caleb: but like you said, just changing the kitchen table into an
Elsa Caleb: office table, some of them in some of the works and the jobs
Elsa Caleb: that they did, didn't bring work home.
Elsa Caleb: Suddenly, to have to manage all of that in one space,
Elsa Caleb: it's bound to affect you in some way. And especially when you reach out to
Elsa Caleb: people and sometimes just to go out of a home to have a
Elsa Caleb: coffee with a friend really changes a lot of things.
Elsa Caleb: But to not have that opportunity and then to all
Elsa Caleb: of a sudden become very technical because you had to get online,
Elsa Caleb: a lot of people had to actually develop a lot of skills very quickly.
Joanne Lockwood: Do you think women also, I hate to
Joanne Lockwood: generalise the stereotype here, but statistically,
Joanne Lockwood: women were often in lower paid roles in the
Joanne Lockwood: hospitality or entertainment business, in hourly paid roles, which
Joanne Lockwood: were some of the most affected at that time. And
Joanne Lockwood: therefore they lost income, lost purpose, if you like, as well they
Joanne Lockwood: did. And if you really think about it, Joanne,
Elsa Caleb: you've built your career all your life. In other words, you've sat down and you've
Elsa Caleb: mapped it out, you've got it planned. You want to then
Elsa Caleb: go for that next promotion, then all of a sudden, bam, it's
Elsa Caleb: shut. What do you do then? Where do you go?
Elsa Caleb: How do you then take yourself out of that situation to say, you know
Elsa Caleb: something, I've still got to continue, I've still got to provide, I've still
Elsa Caleb: got to think of myself, but at the same time, I've still got to be
Elsa Caleb: there for my children and my family. So I can
Elsa Caleb: see how some of them has really affect them, even down to their
Elsa Caleb: confidence. I spent more time now helping women to
Elsa Caleb: build their confidence and believing in themselves. And
Elsa Caleb: people think, oh, it's about the skills and everything. Yes, it is. That's important.
Elsa Caleb: But if the person isn't focused and thinking
Elsa Caleb: in an entrepreneurial way, which way are you going to go?
Elsa Caleb: It's just going to end up being a hobby as opposed to a business. So
Elsa Caleb: there's a lot of changing of the mindset and actual
Elsa Caleb: attitude to a lot of things that actually have to come into play and in
Elsa Caleb: a short space of time, so moving
Elsa Caleb: off from. COVID because you said about the beginning, you don't want to anchor
Joanne Lockwood: everything as before COVID after Covid. So let's think about this
Joanne Lockwood: broadly. More broadly, you talk about
Joanne Lockwood: transferable skills, you talk about returning
Joanne Lockwood: midpoint in your life, career pivots post family,
Joanne Lockwood: if you like, or post care and responsibilities, or
Joanne Lockwood: just waking up one day and going, why did I pick this subject when I
Joanne Lockwood: left school? I really don't enjoy this. Be able to
Joanne Lockwood: press the stop button and say, actually, I don't want to be a lawyer
Joanne Lockwood: anymore, I want to be a personal trainer. And I use that example because my
Joanne Lockwood: personal trainer qualified. She's LLB, she worked at a
Joanne Lockwood: practise as a solicitor and she went, I don't want to be doing
Joanne Lockwood: this every day, I want to be a personal trainer. And she gave all that
Joanne Lockwood: up. But that takes a huge amount of bravery or confidence or
Joanne Lockwood: resilience to just chuck it all in. It does. But it's
Elsa Caleb: also knowing. And I know in the back of the mind, although she's gone
Elsa Caleb: forward to become a personal trainer, she's also got that safety net to
Elsa Caleb: fall back on, determining should it not have work. And not only that,
Elsa Caleb: with those skills of being a lawyer, oh, my goodness, you can work in businesses
Elsa Caleb: just doing the legal side of things. You don't have to go back into
Elsa Caleb: a practise the way that you do. But the fact that she woke up one
Elsa Caleb: morning and had that dream and that burning desire, that is where I
Elsa Caleb: usually start with individuals, because I'll say to them, what's your
Elsa Caleb: dream? What is your passion? What is it that you really want to do?
Elsa Caleb: Because if you've just checked, if you've suddenly had the door shut in one
Elsa Caleb: area, why not take this opportunity to say, you know something, I'll
Elsa Caleb: start again. And you can start again, but you're never
Elsa Caleb: starting at zero because of all those years. And as I said, the
Elsa Caleb: experience and skills that you've acquired, you can use them, but people
Elsa Caleb: feel they have to start at zero. And I'm thinking, no,
Elsa Caleb: we can use x from what you did before. We can use y from
Elsa Caleb: another area that you've worked in and put it all together along with
Elsa Caleb: your personality and your passion. It can open up doors.
Joanne Lockwood: You mentioned the cost of living, cris as well. And
Joanne Lockwood: where we are now with mortgage rates, with cost of living,
Joanne Lockwood: we're in a situation where most households need
Joanne Lockwood: two incomes in order to
Joanne Lockwood: survive. Not saying thrive, survive.
Joanne Lockwood: Budgets are really tight. It must be a tough act
Joanne Lockwood: to risk one person's income. If you like to
Joanne Lockwood: start again, it. Is, but then it's going back.
Elsa Caleb: As I said, if you come to a point in your life where you haven't
Elsa Caleb: got a job to go to, then, as I said, it's looking at some of
Elsa Caleb: the soft skills, like, for example, painting and decorating, making
Elsa Caleb: cakes, doing things that people want and need.
Elsa Caleb: So you've got to find that gap, you've got to find where
Elsa Caleb: the demand is. Once you've identified that,
Elsa Caleb: things can be very, I won't say very easy, but a lot easier.
Elsa Caleb: For example, take a painting and decorating. I'm not a painter or a decorator, in
Elsa Caleb: no way, shape or form, but if somebody knocked on my door because I know
Elsa Caleb: that I need walls painting and stuff, I'll say to them, yeah, let's have a
Elsa Caleb: conversation. Or if somebody's referred to me, most probably
Elsa Caleb: that's a better way for me to go. And they sat down with me and
Elsa Caleb: they said, well, actually, you want your walls painting, tell me the colour,
Elsa Caleb: I'll show you, get you some examples, et cetera, et cetera. They go away, do
Elsa Caleb: all the research, bring the colours in, sit down with me, I start matching it
Elsa Caleb: up at the wall and I say, okay, that's what I want. They can ask
Elsa Caleb: me for a deposit there and then that deposit can buy all the
Elsa Caleb: materials. They go buy the materials, they come paint my wall, I
Elsa Caleb: pay them the balance. To me, that's a win
Elsa Caleb: win. You don't have to keep running to the bank to get money.
Elsa Caleb: You start with what you have, but then you also enter in a
Elsa Caleb: contractual agreement that's realistic, because people do expect to pay
Elsa Caleb: a deposit for what they do and then pay the balance at the end. So
Elsa Caleb: why not start small and then build it up gradually?
Joanne Lockwood: It's interesting, you use that example of a painter decorator, a good friend of
Joanne Lockwood: mine who I met maybe eight or nine
Joanne Lockwood: years ago, she was a special speaker. She used to work in money
Joanne Lockwood: management and we're really good friends. And then
Joanne Lockwood: one day I noticed on LinkedIn, she changed her profile, changed everything
Joanne Lockwood: else. She left her husband, got divorced, set up in her own
Joanne Lockwood: house. She'd retrained as a painter and decorator, and now
Joanne Lockwood: she specialises in being a female painter and
Joanne Lockwood: decorator in her 50s who
Joanne Lockwood: targets specifically women who want
Joanne Lockwood: another woman to come and do their painted decorator. Because that trust element
Joanne Lockwood: about coming into someone's house and we think about the number of women who live
Joanne Lockwood: on their own who've, at the age of 40 or 50, they've left their
Joanne Lockwood: husband. They've had enough of that. Maybe they're widowed early
Joanne Lockwood: or maybe they've never got married and they want
Joanne Lockwood: somebody who they can trust in their home. Correct.
Joanne Lockwood: And she's ideally placed for that? Yeah, definitely. I've got a client that I'm working
Elsa Caleb: on. Well, she does painting, decorating. She's a carpenter as well, and
Elsa Caleb: electrician. So I think it's exciting that there
Elsa Caleb: are women coming up with those skills because, as you said, from the safety element
Elsa Caleb: and also the confidence, having somebody in your home and you know they're going to
Elsa Caleb: tell you the truth, they're not going to just say,
Elsa Caleb: oh, you have this knowing that it's more expensive than something
Elsa Caleb: else. You know what I mean?
Joanne Lockwood: I've never used her services as a patient decorator. I
Joanne Lockwood: felt no problem at all recommending her to my mum
Joanne Lockwood: and my mum had her in to redecorate her bedroom and there was no
Joanne Lockwood: qualms at all. It was a kind of me. Anne. Anne is fabulous. I've
Joanne Lockwood: known her for years. She will do a superb job and she did. And my
Joanne Lockwood: mum is so happy with it and she's like, my mum paid her a deposit.
Joanne Lockwood: There's no risk about someone doing a runner with the money
Joanne Lockwood: or asking for more money later that you sometimes get.
Elsa Caleb: I like those kind of business ideas because, how can
Elsa Caleb: I say? Women understand women. But that's just how we
Elsa Caleb: are. We understand that sometimes things can be tight, we understand
Elsa Caleb: that things can be difficult and we will make allowances for that.
Elsa Caleb: Do you know what I mean? Not only that, even when the person's working, you
Elsa Caleb: know, we're going to sit down and have a conversation. It's not just
Elsa Caleb: about the job and off you go. It's about building that relationship as
Elsa Caleb: well. So that's what I like doing what I do, because at the end of
Elsa Caleb: the day, I have all these friends I never had before.
Joanne Lockwood: You're so right. My mum, she knows more about Anne than I do now
Joanne Lockwood: for two weeks. I mean, I know Anne really well. She's had conversations and
Joanne Lockwood: she can't wait to get Anne back to paint her other bedroom and the hallway
Joanne Lockwood: in the lounge at some point. So it becomes a
Joanne Lockwood: friend. It's more than just a
Joanne Lockwood: trusted. But one of the areas, though,
Elsa Caleb: people can actually forget, is that they're running a business.
Elsa Caleb: So you may get somebody who's going to try and push you to say, well,
Elsa Caleb: actually, can you do it a bit cheaper? Yeah, you can. But it's whether or
Elsa Caleb: not you've done the math. And you've got to understand finance, be able to
Elsa Caleb: know how much leeway, you've got to be able to make a discount in
Elsa Caleb: what you're doing, because you could quite easily forget and
Elsa Caleb: lose that focus that it's a business and not that you're helping
Elsa Caleb: somebody out or you're doing them a favour. Do you know what I mean? You're
Joanne Lockwood: so right. Yeah. Maintain them. There's a big difference when you've worked for somebody
Joanne Lockwood: else for many, many years, or you've never had to be
Joanne Lockwood: responsible for your own sales, marketing, profit and loss, advertising,
Joanne Lockwood: everything else. People feed you, work, you get
Joanne Lockwood: paid, you come in. It's a completely different mindset
Joanne Lockwood: being a solopreneur or a small business
Joanne Lockwood: generating revenue which needs to be
Joanne Lockwood: profit, which means to pay your bills, doesn't it? Yeah, and I think,
Elsa Caleb: again, that's where I come in, if you know what I mean. Because at the
Elsa Caleb: end of the day, my job is to ensure that I equip them with the
Elsa Caleb: business side, that they understand it. So I put together an
Elsa Caleb: eight week business startup course and also an eight week
Elsa Caleb: business course to enable women to understand the basics
Elsa Caleb: of business. And even if you're running a business for a few years
Elsa Caleb: and you've got to make that change sometimes it's knowing how to make that change,
Elsa Caleb: but staying within the law, making sure that you don't
Elsa Caleb: drop anything that's important, but that you're still building at the
Elsa Caleb: same time. So me either working alongside you on a one
Elsa Caleb: to one basis or one to many in a course, I always feel that it's
Elsa Caleb: important that you at least go through it so you understand even some of
Elsa Caleb: the changes that have happened in legislation, because at the end of the day,
Elsa Caleb: once I've left you, and even if you start up like a limited company,
Elsa Caleb: don't forget, you've got to make sure that you're up to date with your confirmation
Elsa Caleb: statement, that you pay your taxes, that HMRC is your friend,
Elsa Caleb: you're paying your corporation tax as well. So we can't neglect
Elsa Caleb: any of that just because you enjoy doing what you.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, you've got your public liability, you've got your professional
Joanne Lockwood: indemnity, you've got your health and safety requirements. If
Joanne Lockwood: you're climbing ladders, working at height safety, if
Joanne Lockwood: you're in someone else's property, you've got to be careful there of trip hazards and
Joanne Lockwood: all those various things. Yeah, exactly. It's your business
Joanne Lockwood: compliance and also your financial compliance, your tax, everything else, isn't it?
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. And it's also known the difference that once that money comes in,
Elsa Caleb: it's business money. It's for the business. You can take out that
Elsa Caleb: proportion to live on, but you've got to make sure that you do a
Elsa Caleb: robust cash flow, because when you think money is not going to come in, and
Elsa Caleb: it does come in, that's great. But when money doesn't come in, when you think
Elsa Caleb: it's going to come in, you've got to have a contingency plan in
Elsa Caleb: place. Yeah. I've met a
Joanne Lockwood: number of people who are probably not confident on the
Joanne Lockwood: process of taking credit cards, and it sounds complicated, but with
Joanne Lockwood: a bit of basic knowledge of setting up a stripe account, or even most
Joanne Lockwood: banks offer merchant accounts these days, knowing that you're going to have a
Joanne Lockwood: credit card transaction fee, that you've got to build into your profit margins as
Joanne Lockwood: well. And those considerations, and you don't always get paid
Joanne Lockwood: out the same day. Sometimes there's a two week lead time and things like
Joanne Lockwood: this. So it's all those little things you don't know about until you get
Joanne Lockwood: into it and start running the business, is it? Yeah. And also it can be
Elsa Caleb: a bit overwhelming to suddenly say, oh, my goodness, I've got to pay extra on
Elsa Caleb: this. Why? But if you're in a group
Elsa Caleb: of, a group of women, we're going to discuss it. Somebody
Elsa Caleb: would have hopefully have gone through that experience. If not, I would be able to
Elsa Caleb: tell them. And it actually makes people a lot more relaxed to know, you
Elsa Caleb: know something, it's doable, I can do this, but it's all about the
Elsa Caleb: planning. You've got to be able to plan. Not
Elsa Caleb: everybody's an administrator, and I get that, but if you can take the
Elsa Caleb: time out, say, every quarter, to just assess and reassess everything
Elsa Caleb: you've done previously and then set yourself up for the coming three
Elsa Caleb: months, you'll find that you won't go so badly wrong. Do you
Elsa Caleb: know what I mean? You will stay on track. And not only that, being a
Elsa Caleb: part of a group for at least eight weeks, it's like being accountable to
Elsa Caleb: someone. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: One thing I found since setting up this business in
Joanne Lockwood: this part of my life is that I found
Joanne Lockwood: my female network is far more supportive than I ever had
Joanne Lockwood: in the past. And I find my female
Joanne Lockwood: network are more collaborative, they're less competitive,
Joanne Lockwood: they're more willing to share, they're more willing to be open. And there's a general
Joanne Lockwood: sense that you want each other to succeed. Yeah, maybe
Joanne Lockwood: in my previous life it was a bit more competitive and dog
Joanne Lockwood: eat dog. Now, I'm a member of many female entrepreneurs
Joanne Lockwood: networks, and it's caring and sharing. That's it,
Elsa Caleb: definitely. And I think also, like I said,
Elsa Caleb: we like to share. We can always go for coffee, always go
Elsa Caleb: for lunch. That's what we've always done. But you'll actually have a
Elsa Caleb: tight network to be able to share. And also, if you're not in the same,
Elsa Caleb: actually, it could actually work even if you're in the same area
Elsa Caleb: sector. Do you know what I mean? Working together, you've got a problem.
Elsa Caleb: Somebody's always there to help you. Because we like solving problems
Elsa Caleb: as a woman, that's what we do. Because I remember
Elsa Caleb: raising my son, we always solve problems. And also,
Elsa Caleb: one thing that a lot of people don't do, and I have always tried to
Elsa Caleb: encourage this, is get their children involved. Get their
Elsa Caleb: children involved in what they do, especially from a creative side, because they still have
Elsa Caleb: that creativity approach to life. They get excited.
Elsa Caleb: They love to do things in a different way. So why not listen to your
Elsa Caleb: children? When my son was ten, I actually taught
Elsa Caleb: him how to do my bookkeeping. A lot of people know that. I always talk
Elsa Caleb: about this story. Now he's 28 and he's quite
Elsa Caleb: mature. Finance is not a problem for him. He deals with
Elsa Caleb: finance like we most probably go and buy shoes, do you know what I mean?
Elsa Caleb: But he's done the calculations. He feels confident with figures.
Elsa Caleb: But if you can imagine having children around there trying to design your
Elsa Caleb: logo and saying, oh, mom, that doesn't look white, why didn't
Elsa Caleb: you do this? Why didn't you do that? Et cetera.
Elsa Caleb: Not only that, children have got their own network. And, you know, when children
Elsa Caleb: got their network, the mothers become part of that network as well. A
Elsa Caleb: great, ideal way to actually market your business.
Joanne Lockwood: I find I've got to be careful. My daughter sometimes, I mean, my daughter's what,
Joanne Lockwood: 31 now? And she works in early years
Joanne Lockwood: nursery, sort of preschool. She's a deputy manager at
Joanne Lockwood: a preschool nursery in West Sussex. And I've got to
Joanne Lockwood: be careful because I keep trying to persuade her to become entrepreneurial
Joanne Lockwood: and get out of the corporate life and start her own
Joanne Lockwood: early years training business. Or I can help you.
Joanne Lockwood: And I've got to be really careful sometimes that I'm not overly
Joanne Lockwood: entrepreneurial and pushing someone out their comfort zone.
Joanne Lockwood: I want to be kind of a magnet if they're interested, but
Joanne Lockwood: not a push or a pull. I think it's
Elsa Caleb: to allow her to have to, say, run her race,
Elsa Caleb: do her career at her pace. And what she wants to
Elsa Caleb: do, but at the same time keep planting the seeds every now and again
Elsa Caleb: to say there's also an alternative, because one day
Elsa Caleb: she may just get fed up and she says, I need to do something different.
Elsa Caleb: But knowing that you're behind and you're watching that you can then
Elsa Caleb: make the possession to maybe ready then. Her husband's an
Joanne Lockwood: accountant in practise. He works for a firm
Joanne Lockwood: adjusted accountant practise. So she's got kind
Joanne Lockwood: of a good solid financial footing as well as a kind of
Joanne Lockwood: an entrepreneurial footing. Yeah, she's got the.
Joanne Lockwood: My wife worked for a company for a long time and
Joanne Lockwood: it was one of those companies where it was an engineering, even though
Joanne Lockwood: it was a small. They were part of Itachi, but
Joanne Lockwood: they were a small subsidiary that was kind of independent. Just
Joanne Lockwood: the ownership was there and it was engineering. It was very
Joanne Lockwood: male orientated. So the people that had value were
Joanne Lockwood: men. The women tend to be the admin or the less important, and they got
Joanne Lockwood: a box of chocolates at Christmas. The men went to the racing or went to
Joanne Lockwood: see cricket or something. In a typical kind of male female divide the
Joanne Lockwood: value and the worst. And she found herself
Joanne Lockwood: not. I don't want to be too cruel, but she found herself being
Joanne Lockwood: treated badly. Lack of respect, lack of value,
Joanne Lockwood: just pushed down and I kept saying to her, look, come and work with me,
Joanne Lockwood: come and work with me, we can figure this out, we figure this out. But
Joanne Lockwood: she wanted her independence, that was her money, that was
Joanne Lockwood: her role. And again, whilst she had a fear
Joanne Lockwood: of getting it going wrong, but she also wanted that independent life where
Joanne Lockwood: it was her job, her role, and that was nothing. I was very
Joanne Lockwood: cautious. Creating the gravitational pull without pushing
Joanne Lockwood: and being overly. Kind of fine
Joanne Lockwood: line, isn't it? Between. It is very fine, but occasionally you
Elsa Caleb: could pass something her way for her to do that. She
Elsa Caleb: could actually see, well, actually I could do this independently and
Elsa Caleb: perhaps I could be the administrator for a lot of small businesses, do you know
Elsa Caleb: what I mean? So it's kind of pulling her out of that environment, but at
Elsa Caleb: the same time showing her that she has got the skills and the independence
Elsa Caleb: and the knowledge to do something for herself, but at the same
Elsa Caleb: time still help you in your business.
Joanne Lockwood: As it happened again post Covid,
Joanne Lockwood: her elderly parents, her mum needed more
Joanne Lockwood: caring. She tried to go part time, reduce her hours
Joanne Lockwood: by one day a week. The organisation said, write us a
Joanne Lockwood: business case. It's like she says, I don't want to write a business case, I
Joanne Lockwood: just want you to listen to me. Sit down, have a conversation with me about
Joanne Lockwood: what's going on in my life and help me. And then
Joanne Lockwood: something happened. And then she effectively did a constructive
Joanne Lockwood: dismissal, walked out and said, I can't take this anymore. And
Joanne Lockwood: a week later, she started working with me. So in the end,
Joanne Lockwood: she had that power to say, I don't need you anymore.
Joanne Lockwood: I'm out. You can't treat me like this. I can go somewhere where
Joanne Lockwood: someone will value me.
Joanne Lockwood: I created an environment where she knew she had safety without pushing
Joanne Lockwood: her into it, if you like. Yeah, no, it's good. And it's just nice to
Elsa Caleb: know that people have got that, how can I say that, connection.
Elsa Caleb: They're not just got the one option and that they can think differently and
Elsa Caleb: they can do things. Do, you know, creative things going forward.
Joanne Lockwood: I've got to ask you something. I noticed when you sent some show
Joanne Lockwood: notes ahead, you said you were a jazz dancer and
Joanne Lockwood: you learned to express yourself through movement. I'd love to
Joanne Lockwood: explore that, if you don't mind. Well, I started dancing from the age of
Elsa Caleb: four. Mum told me this and my cousin, who
Elsa Caleb: was like my best friend, she's a year older than me, she went to
Elsa Caleb: school, so I thought I was going to school by going to dancing
Elsa Caleb: school. So I actually spent a lot of time
Elsa Caleb: dancing in the midlands. I did ballet, jazz and
Elsa Caleb: tap. I won a lot of trophies
Elsa Caleb: and medals over the years. At the age of 17, I
Elsa Caleb: became a teacher. So I used to do little keep fit
Elsa Caleb: classes every now and again. And then,
Elsa Caleb: by doing cabarets and shows, I found that
Elsa Caleb: I could express myself so much more through movement. It was
Elsa Caleb: at that time that I used to stammer quite a lot.
Elsa Caleb: So it was very difficult for me to stand up and read or
Elsa Caleb: stand up and express myself openly. But you put me on a stage, even at
Elsa Caleb: school, they'd play a record and that was, you know, Elsa's
Elsa Caleb: dancing. And they used to know me as a dancer, do you know what I
Elsa Caleb: mean? Because I used to work, as I said, did cabaret shows, did
Elsa Caleb: annual pantomimes with the stage school that I was
Elsa Caleb: going to, as well, managed to travel through Europe as well, doing that.
Elsa Caleb: But then I realised that is not going to take me
Elsa Caleb: very far, especially in those days, so I had to
Elsa Caleb: think again. So decided to use the
Elsa Caleb: creativity or the creative side of that to then become an
Elsa Caleb: arts officer. And that was what brought me to London.
Elsa Caleb: Yeah. And from there,
Joanne Lockwood: you worked in this role and
Joanne Lockwood: then how did you become an entrepreneur? What got you out
Joanne Lockwood: of working for somebody else? Yeah, I was working as an arts officer
Elsa Caleb: for a local council. And I had a very good manager who suggested that I
Elsa Caleb: went back to college, but they wanted me to do leisure because they wanted
Elsa Caleb: to keep me in the leisure industry. But I decided, I sat
Elsa Caleb: down, I thought, well, actually, what's a couple of things that I could do or
Elsa Caleb: one thing that I could do, should I get married and want to settle down
Elsa Caleb: and then have life after a child or children? And
Elsa Caleb: I thought, well, business runs throughout, no matter what.
Elsa Caleb: So I was fortunate that I went back to college, studied,
Elsa Caleb: got my qualification and the same year, I mean, I finished my
Elsa Caleb: qualification in July, September, I was headhunted to work for
Elsa Caleb: the prince's youth business trust. It's now called the Prince's Trust, but it was a
Elsa Caleb: prince's youth business trust. The fact that I was headhunted, that was even
Elsa Caleb: better. That opened up my life in so many
Elsa Caleb: ways. And from there it was like sleeves
Elsa Caleb: up and I just dived in. And I can say that that
Elsa Caleb: was what really got me into this world of business and
Elsa Caleb: entrepreneurial style of living. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: Have you experienced a tougher journey as a
Joanne Lockwood: woman and doubly as a black woman? Or has that
Joanne Lockwood: been the superpower? You know something jar
Elsa Caleb: in life when you suddenly wake up, when I say wake up,
Elsa Caleb: you're doing things, but you're doing it. Because I have
Elsa Caleb: a mother that is very ambitious and very supportive,
Elsa Caleb: who never saw colour, but always ensured
Elsa Caleb: that she ingrained in us to do better than we could ever
Elsa Caleb: do but keep striving.
Elsa Caleb: I suppose it's for perfection. So
Elsa Caleb: whenever I used to dance, it was like, don't forget, you're a dancer,
Elsa Caleb: you're a good dancer. You go out there and you do your best and
Elsa Caleb: you hear those words and you think, well, okay, I'll do them. And that's all
Elsa Caleb: I did for a number of years before I realised, actually, you know
Elsa Caleb: something, there are a lot of things against me,
Elsa Caleb: do you know what I mean? But I seem to be pushing hard. But I
Elsa Caleb: was pushing thinking that, well, my mom's behind me, she's telling me, I've got to
Elsa Caleb: do this and I'll do it. Until one day somebody tells you straight in your
Elsa Caleb: face that actually you're not wanted
Elsa Caleb: here, we don't need you. And you think, well, hang on, I'm
Elsa Caleb: good at this, I'm good at that, what's the issue? And then you
Elsa Caleb: realise, you know something, wow. I didn't think colour would
Elsa Caleb: be a major setback or could be a setback in life,
Elsa Caleb: but as I said, and when we spoke earlier, my mom is 92. She's
Elsa Caleb: 93 next year and next week. No, not actually next year,
Elsa Caleb: next week. And every time I feel
Elsa Caleb: that I need to speak to somebody and I need to actually be
Elsa Caleb: pushed forward, I go to my mother now. She's a lady
Elsa Caleb: that came here in the trained as
Elsa Caleb: a psychiatric nurse. She only ever had one job
Elsa Caleb: with seven children. She raised us all. Do you see what I
Elsa Caleb: mean? And I'll say to you that we're all ambitious, we've all
Elsa Caleb: got our lane that we work in and we've all got children and
Elsa Caleb: grandchildren, et cetera. But she's our rock.
Elsa Caleb: And I'll say that she never saw colour, even though
Elsa Caleb: it was there. She
Joanne Lockwood: raised seven children, she held down a job, she kept a family together.
Joanne Lockwood: She was the matriarch of your
Joanne Lockwood: siblings and your family. I'm not surprised.
Joanne Lockwood: She's one heck of a woman, isn't she? Yes, she is.
Elsa Caleb: Yeah. That's why we'll make sure we go and spend Christmas with her every
Elsa Caleb: year, because not that we don't see her during the year, but it's just so
Elsa Caleb: important that we all have. Think back to where we were when we were younger
Elsa Caleb: and we have a laugh and a joke. We're a very tight family,
Elsa Caleb: very supportive to one another. Not everybody has that,
Elsa Caleb: unfortunately. But unfortunately, that's what's kept me straight, that's
Elsa Caleb: what's driven me. Even when I look at things like
Elsa Caleb: opportunities that I've had working with the small business council, with government,
Elsa Caleb: advising secretaries of state and trade and industry about
Elsa Caleb: business. Don't ask me how I got there.
Elsa Caleb: I cannot pinpoint and say to you, well, actually, I knew this person.
Elsa Caleb: No, it didn't work like that. It was a whole application process, do
Elsa Caleb: you know what I mean? It was tough to get in there, but when I
Elsa Caleb: got in there, it was like. It opened my eyes to a lot of things
Elsa Caleb: of which I use now to help people to move forward,
Elsa Caleb: because people, it was either government or for the
Elsa Caleb: government, whichever, but I just saw how it worked. I went in there to
Elsa Caleb: understand how it worked, to give my advice where I felt that I
Elsa Caleb: needed to, along with 22 other people. And if it meant
Elsa Caleb: that we made a difference, then that was great. And I could see how making
Elsa Caleb: a difference actually trickled down to the everyday person.
Elsa Caleb: So I thought, well, if I've done it on that level, I can do it
Elsa Caleb: on this level. And that's why I love it. And I've got that passion
Elsa Caleb: for helping people all the time because I know that change is what
Elsa Caleb: some people just need. And in some cases, it's only a small change.
Elsa Caleb: It doesn't have to be nothing major, but it will definitely have
Elsa Caleb: an impact on your life. Yeah, change could be
Joanne Lockwood: scary. It also be very empowering, aren't it? And
Joanne Lockwood: if you let change hold you back, you can always be
Joanne Lockwood: looking over the fence wishing, can't you? Yeah, definitely. And I always
Elsa Caleb: said that I was born in the era of change. Nothing
Elsa Caleb: stands still for long. Everything's changing when you
Elsa Caleb: experience what's happened in a few know. And I think when the
Elsa Caleb: Berlin wolf came down, I was like, oh, my goodness, that was just the beginning
Elsa Caleb: of Nelson Mandela being
Elsa Caleb: released, you know what I mean? Seeing the coronation from queen to
Elsa Caleb: king, it's like we're living in an era where things have just constantly
Elsa Caleb: changed.
Joanne Lockwood: Sorry, yeah. I won't
Joanne Lockwood: ask you your age, but I was born in the mid 60s.
Joanne Lockwood: My father was in the navy. He did 22 years in the navy. And then
Joanne Lockwood: when he left the navy, went to teacher training college and became
Joanne Lockwood: a woodwork technical drawing teacher
Joanne Lockwood: in secondary school. And my mum was a
Joanne Lockwood: house mum. She stayed at home with myself and my
Joanne Lockwood: two brothers until we had left home in
Joanne Lockwood: our 20s. So she was in her late 40s before she
Joanne Lockwood: went to teacher training college and became a primary school teacher.
Joanne Lockwood: And they lived in the same house. So for me, my
Joanne Lockwood: parents were sort of the rock of stability, the rock of no change,
Joanne Lockwood: probably like you, I've been like a pinball, bouncing off
Joanne Lockwood: the cushions, doing lots of different things in my life. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: Making mistakes, failing, picking myself up, trying something else,
Joanne Lockwood: crashing and burning again. I've got quite used to
Joanne Lockwood: not knowing what I'm doing tomorrow or not worrying about it. But my
Joanne Lockwood: parents are very much. They want to see things mapped out. And I think my
Joanne Lockwood: brother's a bit more mapped out. He's never
Joanne Lockwood: had that sort of randomness, so it's tough if you
Joanne Lockwood: come from that stable environment. It is, yeah.
Elsa Caleb: But as I said, it is about change.
Elsa Caleb: So we adapt, we change, we listen, we move forward.
Elsa Caleb: But I'll notice that this generation coming up now, oh, my
Elsa Caleb: goodness, they've taken us to another level.
Elsa Caleb: Microwave. I keep saying it's so quick and so fast that,
Elsa Caleb: yeah, you can keep up. And I speak to my son quite a lot and
Elsa Caleb: he says, mom, you are really techie. And I'm thinking, I'm not
Elsa Caleb: compared to some people. But I do make sure that I
Elsa Caleb: keep abreast of what's happening on the technical side, because if we lose
Elsa Caleb: that, you're kind of going backwards.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Because you got new kids on the block coming on all the time.
Joanne Lockwood: And I feel the need to be pretty
Joanne Lockwood: savvy technically. I mean, my background is it. So
Joanne Lockwood: it's in me anyway to keep abreast, but AI
Joanne Lockwood: and learning about software tools and web design and
Joanne Lockwood: graphic design. I kind of
Joanne Lockwood: do everything in my business, or at least have an opinion on everything. I do
Joanne Lockwood: outsource some stuff, but I like to dabble.
Elsa Caleb: I understand. Yeah. And I think it's good and
Elsa Caleb: exciting that we do. Also. It keeps our minds in tip
Elsa Caleb: top condition as well. Do you know what I mean? And we see life so
Elsa Caleb: differently. The fact that we can actually do business, actually
Elsa Caleb: communicate with people from all over the world at the same time,
Elsa Caleb: I think it's fantastic. Yeah. As opposed to just staying
Elsa Caleb: in your lane, so to speak. Isn't that also the
Joanne Lockwood: challenge, going back to the advice you give to
Joanne Lockwood: your coaches, if that's the word.
Joanne Lockwood: It's not just about being a great technician or a great
Joanne Lockwood: professional. It's also the other stuff people have to
Joanne Lockwood: learn. It's just sales and marketing that
Joanne Lockwood: sometimes that can be the hardest thing to learn, isn't it? It is, yeah. Because
Elsa Caleb: you're going to be doing things that you perhaps had colleagues doing for you. As
Elsa Caleb: you said, the sales is one thing, the marketing is another. It's being a
Elsa Caleb: financier, it's being a planner. But you know something? If you
Elsa Caleb: sit down with people, they have touched on certain elements of it.
Elsa Caleb: They may not have a lot of knowledge about it, but if you can say
Elsa Caleb: to them just talking to people or going for a coffee with somebody
Elsa Caleb: and just telling them what you do or finding out what they need
Elsa Caleb: and you meet that need, that's really all you need to do.
Elsa Caleb: You just need to be yourself. You don't have to be that hard
Elsa Caleb: salesperson. I've never sold anything in my life and I
Elsa Caleb: don't like marketing. Okay. I'm on LinkedIn and I've got my little
Elsa Caleb: blogs going there and then, but that's not me. I mean, I do
Elsa Caleb: that because I have to, but I find that my engagement
Elsa Caleb: with people is more important and that's where I help
Elsa Caleb: solve the problem. So it's finding a niche.
Elsa Caleb: Yeah. Because people often use this term jack
Joanne Lockwood: of all, trace, master of none. But that's only half the quote. I'm not sure
Joanne Lockwood: if you're aware of it, but the second half of the quote is better than
Joanne Lockwood: a master of one. So what it's really saying is being a backjack
Joanne Lockwood: of all trades is better than being a master of none.
Joanne Lockwood: It's better than being a master of one. So being a one trick pony
Joanne Lockwood: isn't the solution. It's having a broad in business. To
Joanne Lockwood: run a business, you got to have broad skills across a whole range of acumens,
Joanne Lockwood: haven't you? Yeah, definitely. And I think it's not until you actually
Elsa Caleb: embark on running the business or go into that area of business that you
Elsa Caleb: realise you know something. You've got more than what you think you have. It's
Elsa Caleb: just that perhaps you've done it years ago and you've put it to bed
Elsa Caleb: and you think, I'll work on something new. But then as soon as you run
Elsa Caleb: that business, what you did in the past all of a sudden becomes
Elsa Caleb: relevant. I'm always
Elsa Caleb: spending time digging into people's skills and knowledge and
Elsa Caleb: experiences and say, well, surely you've done something similar.
Elsa Caleb: Can we build on something that you've done in the past? And then when they
Elsa Caleb: get it, they go, oh, yeah, of course. I buy my shopping on a weekly
Elsa Caleb: basis. I'm quite happy to sit down and make a shopping list. And I'm
Elsa Caleb: quite happy to say, well, I've got x amount of money for my shopping. And
Elsa Caleb: I'm thinking, well, that's basically what we're talking about with business as
Elsa Caleb: well. It's just that you just take your time, you stop and you
Elsa Caleb: actually spend the time doing the numbers.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Without going back to the unprecedented times of COVID
Joanne Lockwood: and things like that, we're both professional speakers and we're both member of the professional
Joanne Lockwood: speaking association, and we go back to the COVID times
Joanne Lockwood: when March 24, whatever it was, March 23
Joanne Lockwood: at Monday morning, when Boris came on the telly and said, thou shalt stay at
Joanne Lockwood: home. Everyone except for me. Of course, he could do what he likes, but everybody
Joanne Lockwood: has to stay at home. Many of our
Joanne Lockwood: professional speaking colleagues, their living was
Joanne Lockwood: earned by standing up in front of people either as a trainer,
Joanne Lockwood: a coach, consultant, or a keynote speaker on stage somewhere.
Joanne Lockwood: And our market disappeared overnight. Yes, it did.
Elsa Caleb: In some cases, I was fortunate because I've never been a full time
Elsa Caleb: speaker. I used to use Skype before. I used Zoom.
Elsa Caleb: So I used to work from home occasionally with clients. But I
Elsa Caleb: think there's some people within our network that
Elsa Caleb: was quite willing to grasp the change and take on
Elsa Caleb: technology and do things different. But unfortunately, there were some that
Elsa Caleb: wanted to keep things the way that they were and were waiting until
Elsa Caleb: everything was opened again and then they'll restart. But I
Elsa Caleb: was pleased that the first conference that we had during COVID
Elsa Caleb: how many people did embrace the change and
Elsa Caleb: how many people came forward and that would actually sharing their skills
Elsa Caleb: and knowledge. I thought that was fantastic because I actually joined the
Elsa Caleb: PSA. I think it was the August just before COVID so it'd have
Elsa Caleb: been 2019. So I literally just got in. So
Elsa Caleb: when it all happened changed, I was like, oh, my goodness, look at these people.
Elsa Caleb: They're giving everybody so much. I felt a
Elsa Caleb: lot of people gave a lot of themselves and they shared so much. And
Elsa Caleb: that's when I saw the PSA come together and that's what I liked
Elsa Caleb: about the PSA. It's like you were helping each other without realising you were
Elsa Caleb: helping each other. You're making sure that everybody was
Elsa Caleb: looked know. I
Elsa Caleb: really commend the PSA for. Yeah, we did
Joanne Lockwood: come together as a community and there was a lot of people sort of leading
Joanne Lockwood: the way on remote speaking techniques and technical
Joanne Lockwood: solutions. I was part of some of those technical conversations
Joanne Lockwood: and I think one of the reasons I got involved with it was I wanted
Joanne Lockwood: a purpose and be able to share back to the
Joanne Lockwood: community. Gave me a purpose. It gave me a reason to get up. It
Joanne Lockwood: gave me a reason to have conversations with people, whereas I could have sat there
Joanne Lockwood: doom and gloom, but, yeah, it gave me a purpose. It was very
Joanne Lockwood: symbiotic, whilst it was
Joanne Lockwood: altruistic. Also, I got a lot out of the help I gave.
Elsa Caleb: Yeah. And not only that, we got to know each other.
Elsa Caleb: And what was nice is that everybody from different parts of the country,
Elsa Caleb: yet we met up and we talked and we continued,
Elsa Caleb: as I say, that I don't even know, not how I would have survived,
Elsa Caleb: because I was fortunate. I actually got a contract in the march, just
Elsa Caleb: literally days before the lockdown. And I was working with clients,
Elsa Caleb: as I say, through Skype, before I got to understand zoom. So I was
Elsa Caleb: fortunate. I had that income coming in all the time. But I think for me,
Elsa Caleb: my highlight was the PSA. Do you know what mean?
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Doing those virtual meetings. Yeah,
Joanne Lockwood: it was. Yeah, certainly for me. You say you met people around the country.
Joanne Lockwood: I met people over the world, okay. I was helping people in
Joanne Lockwood: Hawaii, Australia, far East, Middle
Joanne Lockwood: east, helping them set their zooms up and set
Joanne Lockwood: their cameras up and doing this sort of stuff. And I was having some amazing
Joanne Lockwood: conversations with people who were.
Joanne Lockwood: And I don't mean to be cruel to anybody, they were technically out of their
Joanne Lockwood: depth. They were desperate for someone to help. And I felt
Joanne Lockwood: immense because my it background, I fell into it as a
Joanne Lockwood: kind of. I guess when the cris hits, everyone
Joanne Lockwood: falls back to their core skills, don't they? There you go.
Joanne Lockwood: And that's kind of what it was. And I felt that was
Joanne Lockwood: my contribution to the world, was using my core skills and
Joanne Lockwood: experience to help others. In the absence of any other income, we might as well
Joanne Lockwood: help each other. I mean, the income is either
Elsa Caleb: there or it starts coming in, but then you can build on it. But it's
Elsa Caleb: nice to know, as you said, you went back to your core skills.
Joanne Lockwood: I got a lot out of it as well, in those sort of terms where
Joanne Lockwood: if you're not used to presenting and delivering online, it's a
Joanne Lockwood: skill you have to learn as well. But I suppose because I was talking to
Joanne Lockwood: people online all the time, helping them, I was building up my own
Joanne Lockwood: online skills. There you go. How to speak, how to get the
Joanne Lockwood: lighting right, how to get your camera right. So, yeah, I think
Joanne Lockwood: helping others helped me. It was kind of a yes.
Elsa Caleb: As you said, once you've got that area that you're good at, you
Elsa Caleb: do use it to help others and you're always happy. You're not always
Elsa Caleb: the person that's always thinking negative in any way. So, yeah,
Elsa Caleb: I always think of the. I know Covid was a setback for a lot of
Elsa Caleb: people, but for me it was definitely a positive time.
Joanne Lockwood: Definitely was, yeah, I was definitely one of the winners. I came out of it
Joanne Lockwood: with a far stronger business than I went into it with because I
Joanne Lockwood: embraced the change that was occurring in the world. It was right place, right time.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, that's good. And it's also helped me to develop, as I
Elsa Caleb: say, two programmes that I do at the moment,
Elsa Caleb: but now I have one online and one that we do face to face, which
Elsa Caleb: is, I've always done things face to face. So, yeah, I got something
Elsa Caleb: that's quite positive out of it as well.
Joanne Lockwood: Are you seeing a change in the people you're
Joanne Lockwood: coaching in terms of the challenges they're facing, or is it really
Joanne Lockwood: just the same challenges, different person,
Joanne Lockwood: different year sort of thing, or are there new challenges developing?
Elsa Caleb: I'm seeing a lot of the same because I've managed to
Elsa Caleb: get a really good, lucrative contract at the moment, of which I'm
Elsa Caleb: working with groups of 20 women. I've just finished
Elsa Caleb: one group of which was all about
Elsa Caleb: entrepreneurs, just taking their ideas from where they are and taking
Elsa Caleb: it to the next level, and that's worked really well. And now I'm on the
Elsa Caleb: second cohort of 20 women, but these are focusing on
Elsa Caleb: nonprofit organisations, so they want to set up the community interest
Elsa Caleb: company. They want to set up a little community
Elsa Caleb: interest organisation, which is like a mini charity. So these are the
Elsa Caleb: nonprofit individuals. And what's interesting is
Elsa Caleb: they've got this great ambition to actually create
Elsa Caleb: something, but I always feel as if
Elsa Caleb: they don't think they're worthy or they can actually do something.
Elsa Caleb: But now that they're beginning to see what they can
Elsa Caleb: create, it's just interesting how they're now thinking of
Elsa Caleb: growth and thinking of others, which in some
Elsa Caleb: businesses is all about yourself and
Elsa Caleb: surviving. But these ones that are doing nonprofit stroke charitable
Elsa Caleb: businesses, it's about embracing those that are less fortunate than
Elsa Caleb: themselves. How can they bring them on board to help them in
Elsa Caleb: what they're doing? So it's just interesting how I
Elsa Caleb: suppose people are becoming more caring. I think maybe it's just
Elsa Caleb: because I'm working with these nonprofit organisations, whereas I don't
Elsa Caleb: normally see that in those that are looking and actually trying to build
Elsa Caleb: a small business for shares and
Elsa Caleb: profit, et cetera. But I'd
Elsa Caleb: say that everybody seems to still have the same issues and
Elsa Caleb: same problems. Do you find that some of your clients
Joanne Lockwood: are embarrassed to want to make a profit? Is there a kind of a
Joanne Lockwood: CIC route allows people to do it ethically, therefore there's no guilt about making
Joanne Lockwood: money? Is that barrier? Yeah, I'd say so. And
Elsa Caleb: also when you start talking about profit, it's like, oh my goodness, you're
Elsa Caleb: greedy. No, I'm not greedy. That's what businesses is
Elsa Caleb: about, do you know what I mean? It's like we're not supposed to talk about
Elsa Caleb: profit, and that's on both sides of the fence. But the reality
Elsa Caleb: is, why are you in business in the first place if it's not to make
Elsa Caleb: a profit? Okay, if you want to go the nonprofit organisation, I
Elsa Caleb: always try and encourage them to do both, because one can help the
Elsa Caleb: other, depending on what the ideas are. But don't
Elsa Caleb: not build a business and run it like a hobby, because
Elsa Caleb: that does not make any sense whatsoever. You end up having more problems
Elsa Caleb: because then you end up owing the tax man, you end up owing people,
Elsa Caleb: and that's not what business is about. To do business
Elsa Caleb: ethically, you've got to think about making a profit to make sure that all your
Elsa Caleb: bills are paid, everything's done on time, legally and
Elsa Caleb: openly. And from a sound governance perspective,
Joanne Lockwood: if you're not generating a surplus and reserves, then you're
Joanne Lockwood: not prepared for downturns,
Joanne Lockwood: events, sickness, unable to work,
Joanne Lockwood: whatever it may be. So you have to have a surplus of
Joanne Lockwood: revenue, which is for you to reinvest in yourself at a
Joanne Lockwood: later date when you need it. Definitely. And also if you're running a
Elsa Caleb: business because you want to retire in a nice way, not that you
Elsa Caleb: ever retired from your business if you don't want to. Yeah, you've got to think
Elsa Caleb: ahead, you've got to plan ahead. And it's all about making that extra
Elsa Caleb: money. As I said, it's not that you want to. Some people go around the
Elsa Caleb: world, some people buy fancy cars and everything else, but in
Elsa Caleb: reality, episodes is all about growth. It's all about
Elsa Caleb: thinking ahead of times.
Elsa Caleb: You've got your short term, your medium and your long term. And if you're not
Elsa Caleb: thinking long term, then what are you doing?
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, if you're employed, you're happy to knock on your
Joanne Lockwood: manager's door and ask for a pay rise. That's kind of increasing profit, isn't it?
Elsa Caleb: Yeah, there is that. But then how long is the company going to be around
Elsa Caleb: for? Yeah, or you work all the hours
Joanne Lockwood: for the organisation that employs you, generating them
Joanne Lockwood: profit without taking the revenue share yourself. And that's the
Joanne Lockwood: other thing. You become slaves, the corporate machine, don't you?
Elsa Caleb: Yeah, it's interesting, but, yeah, I just like the fact
Elsa Caleb: when people say that, you know something, there's more to life than what I'm currently
Elsa Caleb: doing and I actually want to stop and do something differently,
Elsa Caleb: that's when I jump in, I go, right, okay, let's have a conversation. I get
Elsa Caleb: excited and then when they start seeing what the possibilities
Elsa Caleb: are, their whole mindset begins to change, which is great.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. And just breaking it down into how much you need to
Joanne Lockwood: live on. Yeah. So what do you need to achieve? That's
Elsa Caleb: it, the person work out your. Pricing strategy, you work out your units of measure
Joanne Lockwood: and say, okay, if I do three of those a month, I can
Joanne Lockwood: be quite happy on that pricing structure,
Joanne Lockwood: actually. That's quite easy, isn't it? The right steps,
Joanne Lockwood: isn't it? Yeah. And also as you're getting older, you don't have as
Elsa Caleb: many as energy running around, so you got to think of
Elsa Caleb: living life in a different way. So to me, I always think this is the
Elsa Caleb: answer. Yeah, I completely agree. And
Joanne Lockwood: one thing I would say as a solopreneur is being self
Joanne Lockwood: employed, you work when you want to, but the flip side of
Joanne Lockwood: that is you also have to work when you don't want to.
Joanne Lockwood: You have both things. You still are
Joanne Lockwood: dependent on a client, someone paying the bills
Joanne Lockwood: somewhere. Whilst you do have a very positive
Joanne Lockwood: work life balance, clients when you think I really could do
Joanne Lockwood: without this, but the buck stops with me, I've got to go and do it.
Elsa Caleb: Yeah, there is that. But then again it's a planning. For example, okay,
Elsa Caleb: Christmas, we know we can take days off and we just add those
Elsa Caleb: extra days and that's what we do. Take those extra days off knowing that we
Elsa Caleb: need to refocus and plan and everything for the coming year.
Elsa Caleb: But we don't have to ask permission. No.
Joanne Lockwood: In fact, many of the people I know, self employed,
Joanne Lockwood: disabled, well, I'm not going to work after the 15 December until the 7
Joanne Lockwood: January. It's like I don't work, sorry, bye. I think later. Go
Joanne Lockwood: away. I work on a ten month year, I don't really
Joanne Lockwood: work. August, I don't really work for half of December and I don't really work
Joanne Lockwood: for half of January. There you go. Not because I necessarily don't
Joanne Lockwood: want to, but most of my clients don't
Joanne Lockwood: work. It's a pointless exercise for me. So
Joanne Lockwood: I take the opportunity to take those one month and
Joanne Lockwood: two half months off knowing full well there's, there could be no revenue.
Elsa Caleb: Well.
Joanne Lockwood: There'S no income this month. Okay. I wasn't planning on any income this month.
Joanne Lockwood: It's fine. Okay. That's interesting because what I tend to do is double up on
Elsa Caleb: the clients beforehand, knowing that I'm going to have a break so
Elsa Caleb: that the income is still the same. It's just that
Elsa Caleb: I worked a bit harder just before the break. Do you
Elsa Caleb: see? So I know that at the end of the month, yeah, the invoices are
Elsa Caleb: going to come in, but I still have a nice little rest
Elsa Caleb: in between. I'm just making sure I'm generating surplus
Joanne Lockwood: every month throughout the year and knowing that I've
Joanne Lockwood: got a pipeline that's
Joanne Lockwood: active and going to drop early in the new year.
Joanne Lockwood: So I know that I can take my foot off the pedal knowing that I
Joanne Lockwood: can pick it up a bit later on, things are going to drop. But
Elsa Caleb: then there's an experienced business person, which
Elsa Caleb: is nice and it's great to hear, but it's when people don't do things like
Elsa Caleb: that, does that mean they spend as they go along thinking
Elsa Caleb: that tomorrow is definitely going to be at the same level,
Elsa Caleb: which is not always the case. I'm not
Joanne Lockwood: saying it's an easy journey. I'm not saying that I've got
Joanne Lockwood: my act together completely. A lot of it came from experience. So I suddenly,
Joanne Lockwood: look, yeah, okay, I've panicked, I've worried,
Joanne Lockwood: I've pulled things together. That was tight and then gone.
Joanne Lockwood: Okay, next year I'm going to plan for this being the situation, because now I
Joanne Lockwood: know the reality. And then it's learning the lessons quickly, isn't it? Failing
Joanne Lockwood: fast, quickly. But as you said, it's all in the planning.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. And pricing yourself right in the first place so that
Joanne Lockwood: you are making surplus and you are the reserves at a healthy level so
Joanne Lockwood: that you know you can ride those months out.
Elsa Caleb: Yeah. So cash flow is key. I always encourage people to do
Elsa Caleb: cash flows. Yeah. But I tend to do them on a personal
Elsa Caleb: and a business level because I like to see on what angle
Elsa Caleb: everything's coming in and going out. So maybe I go over the top,
Elsa Caleb: but it works.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, I agree with you completely around the personal side as well, because if
Joanne Lockwood: you've got personal cash flow issues, that will
Joanne Lockwood: inevitably impact your business cash flow as well, because you end up having to draw
Joanne Lockwood: too much or you haven't got stability in the personal level. So
Joanne Lockwood: you can't go into starting a new business if you've got personal cash flow issues.
Elsa Caleb: No, exactly. Yeah. And it's to make people realise that
Elsa Caleb: when's the best time to actually start the business. Do you know what I mean?
Elsa Caleb: In relation to how many clients you've got? Does that mean. Because if you can't
Elsa Caleb: start it properly, why are you starting it at all?
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. And today you look at a lot of you mentioned
Joanne Lockwood: younger people earlier, gig working. You've got
Joanne Lockwood: many young people have got multiple gigs going on YouTube
Joanne Lockwood: channels, monetizing this cottage industry from
Joanne Lockwood: home. So there's opportunities to do parallel tasks these days,
Joanne Lockwood: isn't? Yeah, the opportunities are out there. I think people have just got
Elsa Caleb: to just grasp them and keep focusing. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: It's been fascinating talking to you, Elsa. Absolutely fantastic. It's great
Joanne Lockwood: listening to your experience as an entrepreneur yourself and also
Joanne Lockwood: working with other entrepreneurs and getting them out the starting gate and
Joanne Lockwood: setting them on the right path. Really fascinating. How do people get hold
Joanne Lockwood: of you? Well, Joanna, I've got my LinkedIn,
Elsa Caleb: which is my name, Elsa. Caleb. So you can always find me on LinkedIn. You
Elsa Caleb: can also my email is my name
Elsa Caleb: elsa@elsacaleb.com. And
Elsa Caleb: yeah, I'm out there. Know Instagram, not very highly, but
Elsa Caleb: put my name in my website, Elsacaleb Co. Uk.
Elsa Caleb: Yeah. Usually the best channels to get me on. And just
Joanne Lockwood: for anyone listening, Elsa is E-L-S-A as in
Joanne Lockwood: frozen, I presume. And Caleb
Joanne Lockwood: C-A-L-E-B. Yeah, I
Elsa Caleb: had it first. You had it first
Elsa Caleb: name first. You are. It's been
Elsa Caleb: a pleasure just to be able to talk about what I do, because I don't
Elsa Caleb: always find the opportunity to do that. But it's just knowing that
Elsa Caleb: people, at the end of the day, can actually put food on the table. So
Elsa Caleb: that's what I'm about. I like to ensure that they have food on the table
Elsa Caleb: and they can actually be happy in what they do. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: And believe, because a lot of it is lack of belief, isn't
Joanne Lockwood: it? I think people start to believe they can.
Joanne Lockwood: Thank you. Brilliant. And thank you to you, the
Joanne Lockwood: listeners, for you, the listener, for getting this far. I really
Joanne Lockwood: appreciate it. Thank you for tuning in. If you want
Joanne Lockwood: to keep updated on future episodes, please do subscribe. If you're not already,
Joanne Lockwood: just search for inclusion Bites podcast B-I-T-E-S
Joanne Lockwood: either on Google, Spotify, iTunes or the usual
Joanne Lockwood: platforms. Please tell your friends, please tell your colleagues. I've
Joanne Lockwood: got a number of other exciting guests lined up and this is episode 97.
Joanne Lockwood: It's not long to episode 100, which will be out in the next couple of
Joanne Lockwood: weeks. If you'd like to be a guest, let me know. And any
Joanne Lockwood: suggestions, please email me to
Joanne Lockwood: jo.lockwood@seeechangehapen.co.uk.
Joanne Lockwood: And finally, my name is Joanne Lockwood. This has been
Joanne Lockwood: an absolute pleasure to host this podcast for you today. Catch you next
Joanne Lockwood: time. Bye.