WEBVTT 00:00:00.330 --> 00:00:04.126 Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood and I am your host for the 00:00:04.148 --> 00:00:07.886 Inclusion Bites podcast. In this series, I have interviewed a 00:00:07.908 --> 00:00:11.726 number of amazing people and simply had a conversation around the subject of 00:00:11.748 --> 00:00:15.582 inclusion, belonging, and generally making the world a better place 00:00:15.636 --> 00:00:19.342 for everyone to. If you'd like to join me in the future, then 00:00:19.396 --> 00:00:21.294 please do drop me a line to 00:00:21.332 --> 00:00:25.458 jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. 00:00:25.554 --> 00:00:28.710 That's S-E-~E Change Happen dot Co dot UK. You 00:00:28.780 --> 00:00:32.214 can catch up with all of the previous shows on iTunes, Spotify 00:00:32.252 --> 00:00:35.334 and the usual places. 00:00:36.418 --> 00:00:40.214 So plug in your headphones, grab a decaf, and let's 00:00:40.262 --> 00:00:43.030 get going. Today is episode 00:00:43.110 --> 00:00:46.602 103 with the title"Dressing the 00:00:46.656 --> 00:00:50.090 Part"", and I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome 00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:53.614 Kay caution. Kay is a stylist for 00:00:53.652 --> 00:00:57.374 speakers, and when I asked Kay to describe her superpower, she said, 00:00:57.492 --> 00:01:00.942 knowing how to make someone shine through the way they 00:01:00.996 --> 00:01:04.782 look. Hello, Kay. Welcome to the show. Hi, Jo. I'm so happy 00:01:04.836 --> 00:01:08.454 to be here. It's a pleasure. Pleasure, Kay, 00:01:08.522 --> 00:01:12.306 you've got an interesting background. Tell me a bit about how 00:01:12.328 --> 00:01:16.146 we got here today. Tell me a bit about yourself. Shall 00:01:16.178 --> 00:01:17.640 I go all the way back? 00:01:19.530 --> 00:01:23.186 I grew up in Ukraine during Perestroika, 00:01:23.298 --> 00:01:26.902 and I've always been obsessed with style, and 00:01:26.956 --> 00:01:30.762 I'm not sure where it came from because no one in my family is 00:01:30.816 --> 00:01:34.346 into style. I was doing anything creative at all and there 00:01:34.368 --> 00:01:38.074 wasn't much fashion going on in Ukraine, but I 00:01:38.112 --> 00:01:41.514 was always thinking about it. And when I was about ten years 00:01:41.552 --> 00:01:45.326 old, my mom and I were watching tv at home and we had two 00:01:45.348 --> 00:01:49.182 tvs, black and white, one in the kitchen and the colour one in the living 00:01:49.236 --> 00:01:53.006 room. And we were watching this movie and I asked my mom, what did this 00:01:53.028 --> 00:01:56.818 woman in the red dress say? And she looked at me and was like, 00:01:56.904 --> 00:02:00.322 this is a black and white tv. And both of us ran into the living 00:02:00.376 --> 00:02:04.050 room and switched it on, and she was wearing a red dress. 00:02:04.550 --> 00:02:08.150 So I always kind of had this thing about 00:02:08.220 --> 00:02:11.926 style. And anyway, then I grew up and I moved to the 00:02:11.948 --> 00:02:15.670 UK in the early two thousand s, and I started building 00:02:15.740 --> 00:02:19.402 my career working with celebrities and high end 00:02:19.456 --> 00:02:23.306 brands. And I loved doing that. And one of 00:02:23.328 --> 00:02:27.146 the most important things I learned was paying a lot 00:02:27.168 --> 00:02:30.782 of attention to detail because those people are 00:02:30.836 --> 00:02:34.430 constantly being scrutinised by the media and 00:02:34.580 --> 00:02:38.366 they are public figures, so everybody judges them by the 00:02:38.388 --> 00:02:41.902 way they look. So it's really important to get that look 00:02:42.036 --> 00:02:45.854 right and as near to perfect as possible, isn't 00:02:45.902 --> 00:02:49.506 it? So that was really exciting and 00:02:49.608 --> 00:02:53.342 I love doing that. But also, another part of me always felt 00:02:53.406 --> 00:02:57.234 that fashion is really superficial, and I think it's my soviet 00:02:57.282 --> 00:03:00.600 background, because I didn't grow up with much, and 00:03:01.210 --> 00:03:04.040 a lot of the stuff which fashion stands for, 00:03:06.810 --> 00:03:10.134 I don't find useful and necessary, and I don't 00:03:10.182 --> 00:03:13.978 understand all the overconsumption and buying lots of 00:03:13.984 --> 00:03:17.738 stuff and producing lots of stuff. So I wanted to create something 00:03:17.824 --> 00:03:21.534 more useful. So four years ago, I started my 00:03:21.572 --> 00:03:25.214 own company called mind over fashion, and I 00:03:25.252 --> 00:03:29.022 combined style with my other 00:03:29.156 --> 00:03:32.906 passion, which is learning about human behaviour and 00:03:32.948 --> 00:03:36.706 how our minds work, because whether we want it or not, 00:03:36.808 --> 00:03:40.466 we are being judged and stereotyped by the way we 00:03:40.488 --> 00:03:44.210 look, even before we speak. So I help 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:48.070 speakers to connect with their audience and 00:03:48.140 --> 00:03:51.366 to use their style and their look as a 00:03:51.388 --> 00:03:54.790 powerful tool to change the narrative. 00:03:55.610 --> 00:03:58.380 There's a lot in there. Absolutely. Wow. 00:03:59.390 --> 00:04:02.890 Do you mind if I just talk about your early part of your life? So 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:06.554 you mentioned you grew up in the era of 00:04:06.672 --> 00:04:10.246 the Soviet Union. Yeah. So pre Berlin 00:04:10.278 --> 00:04:13.578 Wall, pre glass, it was Glasgow and 00:04:13.584 --> 00:04:17.370 perestroika, those words would be using. It was Gorbachev, 00:04:17.450 --> 00:04:21.006 we had Poland, we had the solidarity movement, we had 00:04:21.028 --> 00:04:23.440 lekvoenza, all those kind of things. 00:04:25.170 --> 00:04:28.914 You mentioned you grew up in the Soviet Union, where you'd be used 00:04:28.952 --> 00:04:32.786 to having, or you'd be used to not over consuming because 00:04:32.808 --> 00:04:36.626 of availability, because that was the environment you grew up in. Yes. Do 00:04:36.648 --> 00:04:39.958 you mind sharing a bit of how was your life back in those days? I'm 00:04:39.964 --> 00:04:43.622 sure you were happy, but it was different. Was so, you know, 00:04:43.676 --> 00:04:47.414 we always see the world when we grow up. We see the world just from 00:04:47.452 --> 00:04:51.194 that perspective. So this was the world to me. 00:04:51.232 --> 00:04:55.002 I didn't really know much about how it can be different. 00:04:55.136 --> 00:04:58.986 I remember going as an exchange student for a couple of weeks 00:04:59.088 --> 00:05:02.698 to the US when I was about 16. So now we're well 00:05:02.784 --> 00:05:06.578 into potentially just past peristroic. 00:05:06.614 --> 00:05:10.094 I was born in 1981 and I 00:05:10.132 --> 00:05:13.982 remember sitting at a maths lesson in America, 00:05:14.046 --> 00:05:17.762 and the students by the teacher were asked, 00:05:17.896 --> 00:05:21.666 you can ask these exchange students any questions you 00:05:21.688 --> 00:05:25.042 like. And the questions we got were, are there any 00:05:25.096 --> 00:05:28.774 genes in Ukraine? And is there Coca Cola in Ukraine? And it was 00:05:28.812 --> 00:05:32.370 really funny because by that stage there were genes and Coca Cola, 00:05:32.450 --> 00:05:36.262 but obviously they still probably remembered or 00:05:36.316 --> 00:05:40.038 heard what was happening before Peristoica, where 00:05:40.124 --> 00:05:43.803 there wasn't anything, which was when I was very, 00:05:43.803 --> 00:05:47.498 very young. So if we go back to more 00:05:47.584 --> 00:05:51.238 when my mom was my age, probably, but 00:05:51.424 --> 00:05:55.198 saying that for many years after that. So 00:05:55.284 --> 00:05:57.934 I moved to the UK in 2005, 00:05:57.972 --> 00:06:01.742 and when I was still living in Ukraine, to me, 00:06:01.876 --> 00:06:05.554 the way I felt it when I was on the underground and 00:06:05.592 --> 00:06:09.362 just walking around is that everything was grey. And I think 00:06:09.416 --> 00:06:12.420 for me, because I'm a very visual person and 00:06:13.990 --> 00:06:17.618 my energy feeds off looking at other people. And 00:06:17.704 --> 00:06:21.382 I get creative when I see different people 00:06:21.516 --> 00:06:25.334 of different cultures and different styles. And 00:06:25.372 --> 00:06:28.690 I didn't have any of that. It was all very bland. 00:06:28.850 --> 00:06:32.698 So when I moved to the UK, imagine this scene in 00:06:32.704 --> 00:06:36.538 the wizard ofoz where they are walking through grey and then all of a 00:06:36.544 --> 00:06:40.086 sudden everything is coloured and becomes more 00:06:40.128 --> 00:06:43.886 vibrant. So this is the way I felt when I came to 00:06:43.908 --> 00:06:47.486 London. And this is the thing which I absolutely 00:06:47.588 --> 00:06:51.358 love about London and other multicultural big 00:06:51.444 --> 00:06:55.294 cities and capitals, is that you have so much culture 00:06:55.342 --> 00:06:59.010 and so many different things to look at. And 00:06:59.080 --> 00:07:01.700 for me, as a creative person, it's really important. 00:07:02.390 --> 00:07:05.954 So you were in Ukraine 00:07:06.082 --> 00:07:09.734 in 1986 when reactor number four in 00:07:09.772 --> 00:07:13.318 Chernobyl broke down. And there's that huge, obviously, 00:07:13.404 --> 00:07:17.110 nuclear disaster in Chernobyl. You were in the country 00:07:17.180 --> 00:07:20.762 at that time. What was that like? Yes, I was 00:07:20.816 --> 00:07:24.522 very little. I was just under six 00:07:24.656 --> 00:07:28.346 years old. But I heard a lot from 00:07:28.448 --> 00:07:31.840 my parents when I was older talking about this. So 00:07:32.370 --> 00:07:36.080 I was born in Odessa, so we were quite far away from 00:07:37.010 --> 00:07:40.522 Chernobyl, so we weren't affected as much. Although 00:07:40.586 --> 00:07:44.286 they know that the puddles in 00:07:44.308 --> 00:07:47.790 the street were kind of. Imagine if there is oil 00:07:47.870 --> 00:07:51.554 spilled in the puddle. That's the way puddles looked. So we 00:07:51.592 --> 00:07:55.322 were affected, but not as much as a lot of other places. 00:07:55.486 --> 00:07:59.314 But I think the biggest thing and shock 00:07:59.362 --> 00:08:02.422 about this whole situation is obviously the fact that it was 00:08:02.476 --> 00:08:06.182 hidden from people for a long time by 00:08:06.316 --> 00:08:09.420 the government. But these are things which 00:08:10.110 --> 00:08:13.866 I generally don't talk about politics or things like 00:08:13.888 --> 00:08:17.238 this. I'm interested from the psychological perspective 00:08:17.334 --> 00:08:20.854 why they were done. But I'm very 00:08:20.912 --> 00:08:24.238 channelled in my interests. Yeah, of course. 00:08:24.404 --> 00:08:28.126 And I'm just curious about, say, you as a little girl 00:08:28.228 --> 00:08:31.998 at that time, what the impact on you 00:08:32.004 --> 00:08:35.434 was. And if you say you were in Odessa, which is Ukraine is a big 00:08:35.492 --> 00:08:38.180 country, so you can be a long way away 00:08:39.270 --> 00:08:43.026 from Chernobyl, I understand that. So I just wonder, and I think what you 00:08:43.048 --> 00:08:46.806 said there was, you weren't aware of it because of the secrecy or because of 00:08:46.828 --> 00:08:49.720 the lack of political broadcast of these things. 00:08:50.890 --> 00:08:54.390 The world knew about it, but I guess the people didn't. Yeah. 00:08:54.540 --> 00:08:58.342 And that's obviously absolutely crazy to think about 00:08:58.396 --> 00:09:02.134 it. Yeah. You say you 00:09:02.252 --> 00:09:05.466 moved out or emigrated in. What did you say? 00:09:05.488 --> 00:09:09.066 2001, early? Two thousand s. Two thousand and five. Two thousand and 00:09:09.088 --> 00:09:12.686 five. So you still have 00:09:12.708 --> 00:09:15.790 family there. And I was in Kiev 00:09:16.210 --> 00:09:19.566 in 2019, and I heard the 00:09:19.588 --> 00:09:22.238 stories of the revolution in 2014 00:09:22.244 --> 00:09:25.630 and the snipers from the rooftops 00:09:25.710 --> 00:09:29.358 who murdered, assassinated, shot 00:09:29.534 --> 00:09:33.218 people in the square, almost like randomly. And I seen the 00:09:33.384 --> 00:09:37.206 revolution Square with all of the people's faces on the boards and the 00:09:37.228 --> 00:09:40.946 memorials there. And I was absolutely stunned 00:09:41.058 --> 00:09:44.786 and tearful just being in that place and hearing 00:09:44.818 --> 00:09:48.566 the stories. And this was five years previously. And I 00:09:48.588 --> 00:09:52.314 felt a sense of real sadness and loss about 00:09:52.352 --> 00:09:56.138 that could happen in a modern society. And then we wind the clock forward 00:09:56.224 --> 00:09:59.986 and what's going on in Ukraine now, it's devastating. 00:10:00.118 --> 00:10:03.440 It's devastating. What I knew before this. 00:10:04.850 --> 00:10:08.286 You must still have people over there that you keep in touch with. It must 00:10:08.308 --> 00:10:09.950 be hugely impactful. 00:10:11.810 --> 00:10:15.566 It's incredibly sad on so many levels. 00:10:15.678 --> 00:10:19.122 I managed to get my parents to 00:10:19.176 --> 00:10:22.834 persuade, with a lot of persuasion, and managed to get 00:10:22.872 --> 00:10:26.322 them to the UK. And they were one of the first people to 00:10:26.456 --> 00:10:30.166 arrive. Although to me it felt like months and months. In reality, it 00:10:30.188 --> 00:10:33.702 was only ten days, but they really didn't want to 00:10:33.756 --> 00:10:37.570 move. They're very happy now, and they live very close to us 00:10:37.660 --> 00:10:41.194 here in London. I still have some 00:10:41.232 --> 00:10:44.874 family and friends there. And what is incredible, actually, 00:10:44.992 --> 00:10:48.060 is how when I talk to my friend, 00:10:48.510 --> 00:10:52.302 how they react to it and how humans get 00:10:52.356 --> 00:10:55.918 used to, no matter what conditions they live in. 00:10:56.004 --> 00:10:59.326 So their reality now is that 00:10:59.508 --> 00:11:03.230 pretty much every night there are still sirens going on and 00:11:03.300 --> 00:11:06.962 there is always fear that something can 00:11:07.016 --> 00:11:10.338 happen and then it can be two streets away. 00:11:10.504 --> 00:11:14.258 And they would come. Every time there is a siren, they would have to come 00:11:14.344 --> 00:11:18.130 in the middle of the night to their neighbours and sit in the porch 00:11:18.290 --> 00:11:22.066 in their neighbor's flat because they don't have a basement 00:11:22.178 --> 00:11:25.606 in their building. So they would just sit there for hours 00:11:25.708 --> 00:11:29.262 and obviously wouldn't get much sleep. 00:11:29.426 --> 00:11:33.254 And when I don't get much sleep on one night, I can't 00:11:33.302 --> 00:11:36.826 operate. So I'm not sure how they can do this, but 00:11:37.008 --> 00:11:39.994 yet there is so much kind of 00:11:40.032 --> 00:11:43.854 normality in the way they talk about this, which 00:11:43.892 --> 00:11:47.534 is absolutely crazy. Yeah. Are they still living or were 00:11:47.572 --> 00:11:50.880 living in the Odessa areas? Is that where your family were? 00:11:51.890 --> 00:11:55.682 My. Yes, exactly. So my friend, who I'm talking about 00:11:55.736 --> 00:11:59.106 now, who keeps me informed the most. They live in 00:11:59.128 --> 00:12:02.834 Odessa because we see it on the news. That's not 00:12:02.872 --> 00:12:06.010 far from Kerzon. It's on the Black Sea. 00:12:06.190 --> 00:12:09.462 It's right in the heart, really, of the front 00:12:09.516 --> 00:12:13.366 line of the problems and the war and the 00:12:13.388 --> 00:12:17.014 atrocities that occurring. That's not on the 00:12:17.052 --> 00:12:20.620 west, out of the trouble. This is right in the sort of 00:12:21.230 --> 00:12:24.982 southern eastern area. Yeah. So Odessa, compared 00:12:25.046 --> 00:12:28.742 to some of the other places wasn't affected nearly 00:12:28.806 --> 00:12:32.554 as still. So I just 00:12:32.592 --> 00:12:35.680 described to you their life. So it's definitely 00:12:36.370 --> 00:12:38.400 terrible. And 00:12:40.050 --> 00:12:43.738 a few days ago there was an explosion and a 00:12:43.764 --> 00:12:47.602 whole building was exploded and people died. But yet 00:12:47.656 --> 00:12:51.186 compared to some other places, it's safer place 00:12:51.288 --> 00:12:55.102 to be, if we can even imagine that. 00:12:55.256 --> 00:12:58.360 So Odessa is a very strategic place 00:12:58.730 --> 00:13:02.150 because it's a port and this is how they 00:13:02.220 --> 00:13:05.878 transport. So 00:13:06.044 --> 00:13:09.574 actually in the beginning of the war, we were surprised that Odessa was 00:13:09.612 --> 00:13:13.338 untouched and we don't untouched compared to 00:13:13.344 --> 00:13:16.666 other places and we don't know why. But anyway, at the 00:13:16.688 --> 00:13:20.518 moment, I don't really know when. Nobody knows 00:13:20.614 --> 00:13:23.360 when it's going to end. And there is no end. 00:13:24.930 --> 00:13:28.590 No, no. I think that is the sad thing. And 00:13:28.740 --> 00:13:32.462 it's a war of attrition. It's a war of wearing the ukrainian people 00:13:32.516 --> 00:13:36.194 down. I think there seems to be a belief that if Russia keep 00:13:36.232 --> 00:13:40.066 going long enough, the world will lose interest and Ukraine will run out of 00:13:40.088 --> 00:13:43.474 resources. And it's just Russia just taking the long game. 00:13:43.512 --> 00:13:47.246 They'll keep doing this for 20 years if they have to. And that's 00:13:47.278 --> 00:13:50.854 the destroying the culture, destroying the people, 00:13:50.892 --> 00:13:54.262 destroying the economy. And so sad. So sad. And also, 00:13:54.316 --> 00:13:57.814 unfortunately, as there are 00:13:57.852 --> 00:14:01.066 obviously things move on, there are different things happening in the 00:14:01.088 --> 00:14:04.602 world. Media kind of moves on from 00:14:04.656 --> 00:14:08.506 Ukraine and that's a massive part of it because that's kind 00:14:08.528 --> 00:14:12.206 of a driving force. If people are talking about something, that's what 00:14:12.308 --> 00:14:15.774 people want to help. And now, because it's not 00:14:15.812 --> 00:14:19.630 been spoken as much about, Ukraine doesn't get 00:14:19.700 --> 00:14:23.486 as much help nearly as it did in the beginning of the 00:14:23.508 --> 00:14:26.994 war. Yeah, I can completely relate to that. 00:14:27.192 --> 00:14:30.450 There are other things going on now, aren't there? That we've got the Middle east, 00:14:30.870 --> 00:14:34.562 we've got issues going on with our government 00:14:34.616 --> 00:14:38.238 in the UK. And the Americans bombing, was it hoofy 00:14:38.254 --> 00:14:41.926 revels? I can't remember how you pronounce it now. But there's another thing going on 00:14:41.948 --> 00:14:45.698 here. We've got UK general election, we've got the american general election coming up. There's 00:14:45.714 --> 00:14:49.266 a whole load of other world politics that are just diverting the 00:14:49.308 --> 00:14:53.066 media. And Ukraine is no longer news, is it? More 00:14:53.088 --> 00:14:56.780 people have been bombed, more people have been killed. It's the same 00:14:57.550 --> 00:15:00.894 going on. And that's the worst place to be in this 00:15:00.932 --> 00:15:04.142 stalemate situation where no one's winning either 00:15:04.196 --> 00:15:07.680 way. There's no news. There's no news in that 00:15:08.370 --> 00:15:11.994 every time that ukrainian army pushes back, that becomes 00:15:12.042 --> 00:15:15.598 news. They've got ground, they've taken another village, they've taken another town, 00:15:15.694 --> 00:15:19.442 there's something to report on. But now it's just people on the front line 00:15:19.576 --> 00:15:23.298 living in really poor, cold, wet, miserable conditions, trying to 00:15:23.304 --> 00:15:27.142 defend their country. And the thing is that going back 00:15:27.196 --> 00:15:30.918 to the brain, we can only take on 00:15:31.004 --> 00:15:33.926 as much. We only have certain amount of 00:15:33.948 --> 00:15:37.366 capacity. And that's why when 00:15:37.468 --> 00:15:40.886 people move on, because they can't take on 00:15:41.068 --> 00:15:44.842 any of that as much as they did, and they have to move 00:15:44.896 --> 00:15:48.730 on. And for people who are still in that crisis, they also 00:15:48.800 --> 00:15:52.622 need to process it. It's like the same as people 00:15:52.676 --> 00:15:56.046 in concentration camps where they had to 00:15:56.068 --> 00:15:59.866 survive, so they had to kind of find mechanisms 00:15:59.978 --> 00:16:02.800 in their brain how to do this. 00:16:03.250 --> 00:16:06.000 Yeah, I'm sure anyone listening to this, 00:16:07.490 --> 00:16:11.106 my heart reaches out to you and the people of Ukraine. Still, whilst you may 00:16:11.128 --> 00:16:13.986 not be in the front of my mind anymore, you're still there. And I still 00:16:14.008 --> 00:16:17.806 have that compassion and empathy. But should we go back to talking 00:16:17.848 --> 00:16:21.414 about that black and white tv with the lady in a red dress and 00:16:21.532 --> 00:16:25.366 those early kind of. Some people see patterns in 00:16:25.388 --> 00:16:29.238 clouds, some people hear music, some people have a rhythm, some have a beat. 00:16:29.334 --> 00:16:32.794 You have a perception for style and colour and 00:16:32.832 --> 00:16:36.586 dress. So tell me more about how you built that 00:16:36.608 --> 00:16:40.346 passion and built that way of thinking. So I 00:16:40.368 --> 00:16:43.438 didn't have to build it, it just was always 00:16:43.524 --> 00:16:47.150 there. But of course, as years go 00:16:47.220 --> 00:16:50.878 on, I always learn more and more and more. And 00:16:51.044 --> 00:16:54.690 the interesting thing is, when I was working behind the scenes, 00:16:58.550 --> 00:17:01.362 I did a lot on intuition and 00:17:01.496 --> 00:17:05.182 observing latest trends and latest 00:17:05.246 --> 00:17:08.838 catalogues. But the interesting thing was, when I started 00:17:08.924 --> 00:17:12.582 my own company and I had to teach people, because 00:17:12.636 --> 00:17:15.910 now I have a community for speakers and they run 00:17:15.980 --> 00:17:19.786 programmes, and they need to explain to my one to 00:17:19.808 --> 00:17:23.450 one clients as well, why I say certain 00:17:23.520 --> 00:17:27.334 things. Why do I think they need to wear this shape? 00:17:27.382 --> 00:17:30.734 Why do I think that is the particular colour which works for 00:17:30.772 --> 00:17:34.160 them? So I created the whole 00:17:34.770 --> 00:17:38.158 system around it, which I walk people 00:17:38.244 --> 00:17:42.094 through in understanding why they 00:17:42.132 --> 00:17:45.874 need to look a certain way and wear certain things. So I had 00:17:45.912 --> 00:17:49.586 to dig deep on our friend Google 00:17:49.688 --> 00:17:53.426 and search for different systems which are already out there. 00:17:53.448 --> 00:17:57.282 And then based on that, I developed my own materials. 00:17:57.426 --> 00:18:01.026 So I always walk people through five stages, 00:18:01.138 --> 00:18:04.870 and we always start with their existing stuff, and then 00:18:04.940 --> 00:18:08.726 looking at that existing stuff, we look at 00:18:08.748 --> 00:18:12.154 the shapes which work for them. So we first look at their shapes, then we 00:18:12.192 --> 00:18:15.802 move on and look at the colours. And then I 00:18:15.856 --> 00:18:19.610 always ask a lot of questions and make them 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:22.942 think about who is their audience. Because 00:18:22.996 --> 00:18:26.702 I normally work with speakers, so it's people 00:18:26.836 --> 00:18:30.542 who are the front of their brand, right? And they 00:18:30.596 --> 00:18:34.258 have their own voice. So I always ask them 00:18:34.344 --> 00:18:38.194 who their audience is and what is their tone of voice and 00:18:38.232 --> 00:18:41.906 what their values are as a business and as a 00:18:41.928 --> 00:18:45.702 speaker. And when we go through all of these 00:18:45.756 --> 00:18:49.414 questions, we then start thinking how 00:18:49.452 --> 00:18:53.174 we can apply what already works for them, just as 00:18:53.212 --> 00:18:56.934 a person, just with their shape and their colour. And then we 00:18:56.972 --> 00:19:00.394 apply it to their audience and to their business. 00:19:00.592 --> 00:19:04.250 And the main reason why it's so important is that we 00:19:04.320 --> 00:19:08.042 are stereotyped straight away. So I 00:19:08.096 --> 00:19:11.674 teach people how to use that as a helpful 00:19:11.722 --> 00:19:15.422 tool and as a powerful tool. So it's like 00:19:15.476 --> 00:19:19.102 when you, for example, prepare a presentation or a 00:19:19.156 --> 00:19:22.560 speech, you have your slides and you think about, 00:19:23.010 --> 00:19:26.798 I'm going to use these metaphors as a tool to connect, I'm 00:19:26.814 --> 00:19:30.466 going to use the jokes, the slides. So these 00:19:30.488 --> 00:19:34.274 are all your different tools to connect to your audience and to make sure that 00:19:34.312 --> 00:19:37.778 they absorb the material you're talking about faster. 00:19:37.874 --> 00:19:41.606 So I'm teaching speakers how to use their style and 00:19:41.628 --> 00:19:44.902 their look as another additional tool to help 00:19:44.956 --> 00:19:48.394 them pick up. On what you're saying. So you're talking about the 00:19:48.432 --> 00:19:51.690 judgement and you talked about that's human behaviour. 00:19:52.670 --> 00:19:56.506 We have a very prehistoric view 00:19:56.608 --> 00:20:00.234 on judgement. Friend or foe, who's going to look after me? 00:20:00.352 --> 00:20:04.074 It's not going to look after me. People who look different to me, sound 00:20:04.112 --> 00:20:07.194 different to me, come from a different place, are probably going to be a threat. 00:20:07.242 --> 00:20:10.366 Therefore I don't see them as part of my team sort of thing. And we 00:20:10.388 --> 00:20:14.094 also have sort of congruence, isn't it, where, how you look, how you 00:20:14.132 --> 00:20:17.360 sound, they have to kind of align with the message. 00:20:18.070 --> 00:20:21.826 If you turn up in a scruffy t shirt with stains on it and 00:20:21.848 --> 00:20:25.170 jeans and trainers and you want to talk about business, 00:20:25.320 --> 00:20:28.914 something people aren't going to necessarily 00:20:29.042 --> 00:20:32.390 take you as seriously unless you've got that personal brand 00:20:33.370 --> 00:20:37.142 where you can get away with dressing down, because 00:20:37.196 --> 00:20:40.940 that's who you are and people kind of expect it. And when we think about 00:20:41.550 --> 00:20:44.730 some of the. Was it the founder of Apple, 00:20:45.550 --> 00:20:49.094 Steve Jobs? Yeah, Steve Jobs. He got a black t shirt. 00:20:49.142 --> 00:20:52.650 And we see other people now who are tech startup 00:20:52.810 --> 00:20:56.474 geniuses with trainers and that kind of modern 00:20:56.602 --> 00:21:00.414 grungy look, that's kind of how they're expecting. That's how 00:21:00.532 --> 00:21:04.074 tech leaders are supposed to dress now, isn't it? That's kind of like the uniform. 00:21:04.202 --> 00:21:08.026 You don't look smart. You look kind of have to, you 00:21:08.068 --> 00:21:11.586 have to work into that. You can't just put jeans and t shirt on and 00:21:11.608 --> 00:21:15.170 say, hey, I'm here now. The Mark Zuckerberg got away with it as well. 00:21:15.320 --> 00:21:18.950 Well, actually, a lot of the time I help people 00:21:19.020 --> 00:21:22.774 understand that they don't necessarily have to wear a blazer and 00:21:22.812 --> 00:21:26.418 look super sharp, because a lot of speakers 00:21:26.514 --> 00:21:29.820 think that when they go to speak at a 00:21:30.190 --> 00:21:33.450 corporate firm, for example, and everybody 00:21:33.600 --> 00:21:37.146 is dressed smartly and for an 00:21:37.168 --> 00:21:40.922 office, that they need to go there and respect them 00:21:40.976 --> 00:21:44.686 and wear similar clothes to what their audience wears. And what I 00:21:44.708 --> 00:21:48.494 always talk about is that you come there with your story and 00:21:48.532 --> 00:21:51.886 they are there to listen to your story and to listen to who you 00:21:51.908 --> 00:21:55.614 are so you can bring that into your 00:21:55.652 --> 00:21:59.282 look. So a lot of the times, actually finding that unique look, 00:21:59.336 --> 00:22:02.914 which is not necessarily very sharp and very strict, is much 00:22:02.952 --> 00:22:06.230 better. And I had this in the past with clients where they actually 00:22:06.300 --> 00:22:09.480 landed their biggest client themselves 00:22:09.850 --> 00:22:13.554 when they changed from wearing a blazer to finding 00:22:13.602 --> 00:22:17.382 that niche, what they are comfortable with and also 00:22:17.436 --> 00:22:21.178 what aligns with what they're talking about. And they always say, 00:22:21.264 --> 00:22:24.986 you start with your own comfort, what you are comfortable with, because we 00:22:25.008 --> 00:22:27.690 all have our comfort zone. 00:22:28.590 --> 00:22:32.222 It can be physical limitations or it can be just 00:22:32.276 --> 00:22:35.834 our preferences. Some people prefer to wear 00:22:35.962 --> 00:22:39.694 kind of more structured fabrics because when they put 00:22:39.732 --> 00:22:43.582 it on, they feel like, now I'm a speaker, now I'm here 00:22:43.636 --> 00:22:47.310 to speak. But other people prefer something looser 00:22:47.390 --> 00:22:50.594 and they like moving around and they like to be 00:22:50.632 --> 00:22:54.226 comfortable. So you always need to think about that comfort first, 00:22:54.328 --> 00:22:57.686 and then you move on to thinking about your audience and how you 00:22:57.708 --> 00:23:01.302 can marry it all together so that they 00:23:01.356 --> 00:23:05.126 understand you. But also you feel comfortable, because otherwise you're not going 00:23:05.148 --> 00:23:08.794 to be able to be 100% authentic when you speak 00:23:08.832 --> 00:23:12.460 to them. I completely get that. 00:23:12.910 --> 00:23:16.620 I think for me, it's how do I feel first? 00:23:17.470 --> 00:23:21.258 And then what looks good for where I'm going to 00:23:21.264 --> 00:23:25.110 be. I've got some dresses. I've got some outfits that I 00:23:25.120 --> 00:23:28.654 would never wear on stage, even though I love wearing them. They bring me 00:23:28.692 --> 00:23:31.840 joy casually, but I would never wear them on stage. I think 00:23:32.690 --> 00:23:35.118 the dress is a little bit too short. I need a little bit on the 00:23:35.124 --> 00:23:38.594 knee or below the knee or if I'm going to be walking around on 00:23:38.632 --> 00:23:42.466 stage. I love these shoes, but they don't work on stage. I need 00:23:42.488 --> 00:23:46.146 something I can maybe flats or certainly don't want 00:23:46.248 --> 00:23:48.838 heels if I'm going to be standing up all day. I don't want to be 00:23:48.844 --> 00:23:52.534 wearing something that is, I can't walk after about 4 00:23:52.572 --> 00:23:55.800 hours. So you're thinking about the entire day. And 00:23:57.530 --> 00:24:01.162 I find it. There's a lot more thought goes into 00:24:01.216 --> 00:24:04.666 how I dress, how I look, how I feel as a 00:24:04.688 --> 00:24:08.326 woman than I ever had in the past where I would just tend 00:24:08.358 --> 00:24:11.980 to, pair of shoes, pair of trousers, shirt. Does it fit? 00:24:12.350 --> 00:24:15.726 Does the tie work with a jacket? Put a jacket on. That was kind of 00:24:15.748 --> 00:24:19.598 like it was off the peg. Now there's so many dynamics I have to 00:24:19.604 --> 00:24:23.450 think about as a woman that are completely different. And it's 00:24:23.530 --> 00:24:27.074 all these different combinations you have to think about, isn't it? And it's so 00:24:27.112 --> 00:24:30.786 true. It's harder for women in terms of exactly. There is 00:24:30.808 --> 00:24:34.466 more choice and it's easier to get lost. For 00:24:34.488 --> 00:24:38.214 men, the main thing is that it's cut well and 00:24:38.252 --> 00:24:42.102 it fits well, and the fabrics are good quality and things like this, 00:24:42.156 --> 00:24:45.654 even when it comes to casual. But for women, it's more 00:24:45.692 --> 00:24:49.302 about finding that style. And I think what 00:24:49.356 --> 00:24:52.220