Joanne Lockwood: Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood and I am your host for the
Joanne Lockwood: Inclusion Bites podcast. In this series, I have interviewed a
Joanne Lockwood: number of amazing people and simply had a conversation around the subject of
Joanne Lockwood: inclusion, belonging, and generally making the world a better place
Joanne Lockwood: for everyone to. If you'd like to join me in the future, then
Joanne Lockwood: please do drop me a line to
Joanne Lockwood: jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk.
Joanne Lockwood: That's S-E-~E Change Happen dot Co dot UK. You
Joanne Lockwood: can catch up with all of the previous shows on iTunes, Spotify
Joanne Lockwood: and the usual places.
Joanne Lockwood: So plug in your headphones, grab a decaf, and let's
Joanne Lockwood: get going. Today is episode
Joanne Lockwood: 103 with the title"Dressing the
Joanne Lockwood: Part"", and I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome
Joanne Lockwood: Kay caution. Kay is a stylist for
Joanne Lockwood: speakers, and when I asked Kay to describe her superpower, she said,
Joanne Lockwood: knowing how to make someone shine through the way they
Joanne Lockwood: look. Hello, Kay. Welcome to the show. Hi, Jo. I'm so happy
Kay Korsh: to be here. It's a pleasure. Pleasure, Kay,
Joanne Lockwood: you've got an interesting background. Tell me a bit about how
Joanne Lockwood: we got here today. Tell me a bit about yourself. Shall
Kay Korsh: I go all the way back?
Kay Korsh: I grew up in Ukraine during Perestroika,
Kay Korsh: and I've always been obsessed with style, and
Kay Korsh: I'm not sure where it came from because no one in my family is
Kay Korsh: into style. I was doing anything creative at all and there
Kay Korsh: wasn't much fashion going on in Ukraine, but I
Kay Korsh: was always thinking about it. And when I was about ten years
Kay Korsh: old, my mom and I were watching tv at home and we had two
Kay Korsh: tvs, black and white, one in the kitchen and the colour one in the living
Kay Korsh: room. And we were watching this movie and I asked my mom, what did this
Kay Korsh: woman in the red dress say? And she looked at me and was like,
Kay Korsh: this is a black and white tv. And both of us ran into the living
Kay Korsh: room and switched it on, and she was wearing a red dress.
Kay Korsh: So I always kind of had this thing about
Kay Korsh: style. And anyway, then I grew up and I moved to the
Kay Korsh: UK in the early two thousand s, and I started building
Kay Korsh: my career working with celebrities and high end
Kay Korsh: brands. And I loved doing that. And one of
Kay Korsh: the most important things I learned was paying a lot
Kay Korsh: of attention to detail because those people are
Kay Korsh: constantly being scrutinised by the media and
Kay Korsh: they are public figures, so everybody judges them by the
Kay Korsh: way they look. So it's really important to get that look
Kay Korsh: right and as near to perfect as possible, isn't
Kay Korsh: it? So that was really exciting and
Kay Korsh: I love doing that. But also, another part of me always felt
Kay Korsh: that fashion is really superficial, and I think it's my soviet
Kay Korsh: background, because I didn't grow up with much, and
Kay Korsh: a lot of the stuff which fashion stands for,
Kay Korsh: I don't find useful and necessary, and I don't
Kay Korsh: understand all the overconsumption and buying lots of
Kay Korsh: stuff and producing lots of stuff. So I wanted to create something
Kay Korsh: more useful. So four years ago, I started my
Kay Korsh: own company called mind over fashion, and I
Kay Korsh: combined style with my other
Kay Korsh: passion, which is learning about human behaviour and
Kay Korsh: how our minds work, because whether we want it or not,
Kay Korsh: we are being judged and stereotyped by the way we
Kay Korsh: look, even before we speak. So I help
Kay Korsh: speakers to connect with their audience and
Kay Korsh: to use their style and their look as a
Kay Korsh: powerful tool to change the narrative.
Joanne Lockwood: There's a lot in there. Absolutely. Wow.
Joanne Lockwood: Do you mind if I just talk about your early part of your life? So
Joanne Lockwood: you mentioned you grew up in the era of
Joanne Lockwood: the Soviet Union. Yeah. So pre Berlin
Joanne Lockwood: Wall, pre glass, it was Glasgow and
Joanne Lockwood: perestroika, those words would be using. It was Gorbachev,
Joanne Lockwood: we had Poland, we had the solidarity movement, we had
Joanne Lockwood: lekvoenza, all those kind of things.
Joanne Lockwood: You mentioned you grew up in the Soviet Union, where you'd be used
Joanne Lockwood: to having, or you'd be used to not over consuming because
Joanne Lockwood: of availability, because that was the environment you grew up in. Yes. Do
Joanne Lockwood: you mind sharing a bit of how was your life back in those days? I'm
Joanne Lockwood: sure you were happy, but it was different. Was so, you know,
Kay Korsh: we always see the world when we grow up. We see the world just from
Kay Korsh: that perspective. So this was the world to me.
Kay Korsh: I didn't really know much about how it can be different.
Kay Korsh: I remember going as an exchange student for a couple of weeks
Kay Korsh: to the US when I was about 16. So now we're well
Kay Korsh: into potentially just past peristroic.
Kay Korsh: I was born in 1981 and I
Kay Korsh: remember sitting at a maths lesson in America,
Kay Korsh: and the students by the teacher were asked,
Kay Korsh: you can ask these exchange students any questions you
Kay Korsh: like. And the questions we got were, are there any
Kay Korsh: genes in Ukraine? And is there Coca Cola in Ukraine? And it was
Kay Korsh: really funny because by that stage there were genes and Coca Cola,
Kay Korsh: but obviously they still probably remembered or
Kay Korsh: heard what was happening before Peristoica, where
Kay Korsh: there wasn't anything, which was when I was very,
Kay Korsh: very young. So if we go back to more
Kay Korsh: when my mom was my age, probably, but
Kay Korsh: saying that for many years after that. So
Kay Korsh: I moved to the UK in 2005,
Kay Korsh: and when I was still living in Ukraine, to me,
Kay Korsh: the way I felt it when I was on the underground and
Kay Korsh: just walking around is that everything was grey. And I think
Kay Korsh: for me, because I'm a very visual person and
Kay Korsh: my energy feeds off looking at other people. And
Kay Korsh: I get creative when I see different people
Kay Korsh: of different cultures and different styles. And
Kay Korsh: I didn't have any of that. It was all very bland.
Kay Korsh: So when I moved to the UK, imagine this scene in
Kay Korsh: the wizard ofoz where they are walking through grey and then all of a
Kay Korsh: sudden everything is coloured and becomes more
Kay Korsh: vibrant. So this is the way I felt when I came to
Kay Korsh: London. And this is the thing which I absolutely
Kay Korsh: love about London and other multicultural big
Kay Korsh: cities and capitals, is that you have so much culture
Kay Korsh: and so many different things to look at. And
Kay Korsh: for me, as a creative person, it's really important.
Joanne Lockwood: So you were in Ukraine
Joanne Lockwood: in 1986 when reactor number four in
Joanne Lockwood: Chernobyl broke down. And there's that huge, obviously,
Joanne Lockwood: nuclear disaster in Chernobyl. You were in the country
Joanne Lockwood: at that time. What was that like? Yes, I was
Kay Korsh: very little. I was just under six
Kay Korsh: years old. But I heard a lot from
Kay Korsh: my parents when I was older talking about this. So
Kay Korsh: I was born in Odessa, so we were quite far away from
Kay Korsh: Chernobyl, so we weren't affected as much. Although
Kay Korsh: they know that the puddles in
Kay Korsh: the street were kind of. Imagine if there is oil
Kay Korsh: spilled in the puddle. That's the way puddles looked. So we
Kay Korsh: were affected, but not as much as a lot of other places.
Kay Korsh: But I think the biggest thing and shock
Kay Korsh: about this whole situation is obviously the fact that it was
Kay Korsh: hidden from people for a long time by
Kay Korsh: the government. But these are things which
Kay Korsh: I generally don't talk about politics or things like
Kay Korsh: this. I'm interested from the psychological perspective
Kay Korsh: why they were done. But I'm very
Kay Korsh: channelled in my interests. Yeah, of course.
Joanne Lockwood: And I'm just curious about, say, you as a little girl
Joanne Lockwood: at that time, what the impact on you
Joanne Lockwood: was. And if you say you were in Odessa, which is Ukraine is a big
Joanne Lockwood: country, so you can be a long way away
Joanne Lockwood: from Chernobyl, I understand that. So I just wonder, and I think what you
Joanne Lockwood: said there was, you weren't aware of it because of the secrecy or because of
Joanne Lockwood: the lack of political broadcast of these things.
Joanne Lockwood: The world knew about it, but I guess the people didn't. Yeah.
Kay Korsh: And that's obviously absolutely crazy to think about
Kay Korsh: it. Yeah. You say you
Joanne Lockwood: moved out or emigrated in. What did you say?
Joanne Lockwood: 2001, early? Two thousand s. Two thousand and five. Two thousand and
Joanne Lockwood: five. So you still have
Joanne Lockwood: family there. And I was in Kiev
Joanne Lockwood: in 2019, and I heard the
Joanne Lockwood: stories of the revolution in 2014
Joanne Lockwood: and the snipers from the rooftops
Joanne Lockwood: who murdered, assassinated, shot
Joanne Lockwood: people in the square, almost like randomly. And I seen the
Joanne Lockwood: revolution Square with all of the people's faces on the boards and the
Joanne Lockwood: memorials there. And I was absolutely stunned
Joanne Lockwood: and tearful just being in that place and hearing
Joanne Lockwood: the stories. And this was five years previously. And I
Joanne Lockwood: felt a sense of real sadness and loss about
Joanne Lockwood: that could happen in a modern society. And then we wind the clock forward
Joanne Lockwood: and what's going on in Ukraine now, it's devastating.
Joanne Lockwood: It's devastating. What I knew before this.
Joanne Lockwood: You must still have people over there that you keep in touch with. It must
Joanne Lockwood: be hugely impactful.
Kay Korsh: It's incredibly sad on so many levels.
Kay Korsh: I managed to get my parents to
Kay Korsh: persuade, with a lot of persuasion, and managed to get
Kay Korsh: them to the UK. And they were one of the first people to
Kay Korsh: arrive. Although to me it felt like months and months. In reality, it
Kay Korsh: was only ten days, but they really didn't want to
Kay Korsh: move. They're very happy now, and they live very close to us
Kay Korsh: here in London. I still have some
Kay Korsh: family and friends there. And what is incredible, actually,
Kay Korsh: is how when I talk to my friend,
Kay Korsh: how they react to it and how humans get
Kay Korsh: used to, no matter what conditions they live in.
Kay Korsh: So their reality now is that
Kay Korsh: pretty much every night there are still sirens going on and
Kay Korsh: there is always fear that something can
Kay Korsh: happen and then it can be two streets away.
Kay Korsh: And they would come. Every time there is a siren, they would have to come
Kay Korsh: in the middle of the night to their neighbours and sit in the porch
Kay Korsh: in their neighbor's flat because they don't have a basement
Kay Korsh: in their building. So they would just sit there for hours
Kay Korsh: and obviously wouldn't get much sleep.
Kay Korsh: And when I don't get much sleep on one night, I can't
Kay Korsh: operate. So I'm not sure how they can do this, but
Kay Korsh: yet there is so much kind of
Kay Korsh: normality in the way they talk about this, which
Kay Korsh: is absolutely crazy. Yeah. Are they still living or were
Joanne Lockwood: living in the Odessa areas? Is that where your family were?
Kay Korsh: My. Yes, exactly. So my friend, who I'm talking about
Kay Korsh: now, who keeps me informed the most. They live in
Joanne Lockwood: Odessa because we see it on the news. That's not
Joanne Lockwood: far from Kerzon. It's on the Black Sea.
Joanne Lockwood: It's right in the heart, really, of the front
Joanne Lockwood: line of the problems and the war and the
Joanne Lockwood: atrocities that occurring. That's not on the
Joanne Lockwood: west, out of the trouble. This is right in the sort of
Joanne Lockwood: southern eastern area. Yeah. So Odessa, compared
Kay Korsh: to some of the other places wasn't affected nearly
Kay Korsh: as still. So I just
Kay Korsh: described to you their life. So it's definitely
Kay Korsh: terrible. And
Kay Korsh: a few days ago there was an explosion and a
Kay Korsh: whole building was exploded and people died. But yet
Kay Korsh: compared to some other places, it's safer place
Kay Korsh: to be, if we can even imagine that.
Kay Korsh: So Odessa is a very strategic place
Kay Korsh: because it's a port and this is how they
Kay Korsh: transport. So
Kay Korsh: actually in the beginning of the war, we were surprised that Odessa was
Kay Korsh: untouched and we don't untouched compared to
Kay Korsh: other places and we don't know why. But anyway, at the
Kay Korsh: moment, I don't really know when. Nobody knows
Kay Korsh: when it's going to end. And there is no end.
Joanne Lockwood: No, no. I think that is the sad thing. And
Joanne Lockwood: it's a war of attrition. It's a war of wearing the ukrainian people
Joanne Lockwood: down. I think there seems to be a belief that if Russia keep
Joanne Lockwood: going long enough, the world will lose interest and Ukraine will run out of
Joanne Lockwood: resources. And it's just Russia just taking the long game.
Joanne Lockwood: They'll keep doing this for 20 years if they have to. And that's
Joanne Lockwood: the destroying the culture, destroying the people,
Joanne Lockwood: destroying the economy. And so sad. So sad. And also,
Kay Korsh: unfortunately, as there are
Kay Korsh: obviously things move on, there are different things happening in the
Kay Korsh: world. Media kind of moves on from
Kay Korsh: Ukraine and that's a massive part of it because that's kind
Kay Korsh: of a driving force. If people are talking about something, that's what
Kay Korsh: people want to help. And now, because it's not
Kay Korsh: been spoken as much about, Ukraine doesn't get
Kay Korsh: as much help nearly as it did in the beginning of the
Kay Korsh: war. Yeah, I can completely relate to that.
Joanne Lockwood: There are other things going on now, aren't there? That we've got the Middle east,
Joanne Lockwood: we've got issues going on with our government
Joanne Lockwood: in the UK. And the Americans bombing, was it hoofy
Joanne Lockwood: revels? I can't remember how you pronounce it now. But there's another thing going on
Joanne Lockwood: here. We've got UK general election, we've got the american general election coming up. There's
Joanne Lockwood: a whole load of other world politics that are just diverting the
Joanne Lockwood: media. And Ukraine is no longer news, is it? More
Joanne Lockwood: people have been bombed, more people have been killed. It's the same
Joanne Lockwood: going on. And that's the worst place to be in this
Joanne Lockwood: stalemate situation where no one's winning either
Joanne Lockwood: way. There's no news. There's no news in that
Joanne Lockwood: every time that ukrainian army pushes back, that becomes
Joanne Lockwood: news. They've got ground, they've taken another village, they've taken another town,
Joanne Lockwood: there's something to report on. But now it's just people on the front line
Joanne Lockwood: living in really poor, cold, wet, miserable conditions, trying to
Joanne Lockwood: defend their country. And the thing is that going back
Kay Korsh: to the brain, we can only take on
Kay Korsh: as much. We only have certain amount of
Kay Korsh: capacity. And that's why when
Kay Korsh: people move on, because they can't take on
Kay Korsh: any of that as much as they did, and they have to move
Kay Korsh: on. And for people who are still in that crisis, they also
Kay Korsh: need to process it. It's like the same as people
Kay Korsh: in concentration camps where they had to
Kay Korsh: survive, so they had to kind of find mechanisms
Kay Korsh: in their brain how to do this.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, I'm sure anyone listening to this,
Joanne Lockwood: my heart reaches out to you and the people of Ukraine. Still, whilst you may
Joanne Lockwood: not be in the front of my mind anymore, you're still there. And I still
Joanne Lockwood: have that compassion and empathy. But should we go back to talking
Joanne Lockwood: about that black and white tv with the lady in a red dress and
Joanne Lockwood: those early kind of. Some people see patterns in
Joanne Lockwood: clouds, some people hear music, some people have a rhythm, some have a beat.
Joanne Lockwood: You have a perception for style and colour and
Joanne Lockwood: dress. So tell me more about how you built that
Joanne Lockwood: passion and built that way of thinking. So I
Kay Korsh: didn't have to build it, it just was always
Kay Korsh: there. But of course, as years go
Kay Korsh: on, I always learn more and more and more. And
Kay Korsh: the interesting thing is, when I was working behind the scenes,
Kay Korsh: I did a lot on intuition and
Kay Korsh: observing latest trends and latest
Kay Korsh: catalogues. But the interesting thing was, when I started
Kay Korsh: my own company and I had to teach people, because
Kay Korsh: now I have a community for speakers and they run
Kay Korsh: programmes, and they need to explain to my one to
Kay Korsh: one clients as well, why I say certain
Kay Korsh: things. Why do I think they need to wear this shape?
Kay Korsh: Why do I think that is the particular colour which works for
Kay Korsh: them? So I created the whole
Kay Korsh: system around it, which I walk people
Kay Korsh: through in understanding why they
Kay Korsh: need to look a certain way and wear certain things. So I had
Kay Korsh: to dig deep on our friend Google
Kay Korsh: and search for different systems which are already out there.
Kay Korsh: And then based on that, I developed my own materials.
Kay Korsh: So I always walk people through five stages,
Kay Korsh: and we always start with their existing stuff, and then
Kay Korsh: looking at that existing stuff, we look at
Kay Korsh: the shapes which work for them. So we first look at their shapes, then we
Kay Korsh: move on and look at the colours. And then I
Kay Korsh: always ask a lot of questions and make them
Kay Korsh: think about who is their audience. Because
Kay Korsh: I normally work with speakers, so it's people
Kay Korsh: who are the front of their brand, right? And they
Kay Korsh: have their own voice. So I always ask them
Kay Korsh: who their audience is and what is their tone of voice and
Kay Korsh: what their values are as a business and as a
Kay Korsh: speaker. And when we go through all of these
Kay Korsh: questions, we then start thinking how
Kay Korsh: we can apply what already works for them, just as
Kay Korsh: a person, just with their shape and their colour. And then we
Kay Korsh: apply it to their audience and to their business.
Kay Korsh: And the main reason why it's so important is that we
Kay Korsh: are stereotyped straight away. So I
Kay Korsh: teach people how to use that as a helpful
Kay Korsh: tool and as a powerful tool. So it's like
Kay Korsh: when you, for example, prepare a presentation or a
Kay Korsh: speech, you have your slides and you think about,
Kay Korsh: I'm going to use these metaphors as a tool to connect, I'm
Kay Korsh: going to use the jokes, the slides. So these
Kay Korsh: are all your different tools to connect to your audience and to make sure that
Kay Korsh: they absorb the material you're talking about faster.
Kay Korsh: So I'm teaching speakers how to use their style and
Kay Korsh: their look as another additional tool to help
Kay Korsh: them pick up. On what you're saying. So you're talking about the
Joanne Lockwood: judgement and you talked about that's human behaviour.
Joanne Lockwood: We have a very prehistoric view
Joanne Lockwood: on judgement. Friend or foe, who's going to look after me?
Joanne Lockwood: It's not going to look after me. People who look different to me, sound
Joanne Lockwood: different to me, come from a different place, are probably going to be a threat.
Joanne Lockwood: Therefore I don't see them as part of my team sort of thing. And we
Joanne Lockwood: also have sort of congruence, isn't it, where, how you look, how you
Joanne Lockwood: sound, they have to kind of align with the message.
Joanne Lockwood: If you turn up in a scruffy t shirt with stains on it and
Joanne Lockwood: jeans and trainers and you want to talk about business,
Joanne Lockwood: something people aren't going to necessarily
Joanne Lockwood: take you as seriously unless you've got that personal brand
Joanne Lockwood: where you can get away with dressing down, because
Joanne Lockwood: that's who you are and people kind of expect it. And when we think about
Joanne Lockwood: some of the. Was it the founder of Apple,
Joanne Lockwood: Steve Jobs? Yeah, Steve Jobs. He got a black t shirt.
Joanne Lockwood: And we see other people now who are tech startup
Joanne Lockwood: geniuses with trainers and that kind of modern
Joanne Lockwood: grungy look, that's kind of how they're expecting. That's how
Joanne Lockwood: tech leaders are supposed to dress now, isn't it? That's kind of like the uniform.
Joanne Lockwood: You don't look smart. You look kind of have to, you
Joanne Lockwood: have to work into that. You can't just put jeans and t shirt on and
Joanne Lockwood: say, hey, I'm here now. The Mark Zuckerberg got away with it as well.
Kay Korsh: Well, actually, a lot of the time I help people
Kay Korsh: understand that they don't necessarily have to wear a blazer and
Kay Korsh: look super sharp, because a lot of speakers
Kay Korsh: think that when they go to speak at a
Kay Korsh: corporate firm, for example, and everybody
Kay Korsh: is dressed smartly and for an
Kay Korsh: office, that they need to go there and respect them
Kay Korsh: and wear similar clothes to what their audience wears. And what I
Kay Korsh: always talk about is that you come there with your story and
Kay Korsh: they are there to listen to your story and to listen to who you
Kay Korsh: are so you can bring that into your
Kay Korsh: look. So a lot of the times, actually finding that unique look,
Kay Korsh: which is not necessarily very sharp and very strict, is much
Kay Korsh: better. And I had this in the past with clients where they actually
Kay Korsh: landed their biggest client themselves
Kay Korsh: when they changed from wearing a blazer to finding
Kay Korsh: that niche, what they are comfortable with and also
Kay Korsh: what aligns with what they're talking about. And they always say,
Kay Korsh: you start with your own comfort, what you are comfortable with, because we
Kay Korsh: all have our comfort zone.
Kay Korsh: It can be physical limitations or it can be just
Kay Korsh: our preferences. Some people prefer to wear
Kay Korsh: kind of more structured fabrics because when they put
Kay Korsh: it on, they feel like, now I'm a speaker, now I'm here
Kay Korsh: to speak. But other people prefer something looser
Kay Korsh: and they like moving around and they like to be
Kay Korsh: comfortable. So you always need to think about that comfort first,
Kay Korsh: and then you move on to thinking about your audience and how you
Kay Korsh: can marry it all together so that they
Kay Korsh: understand you. But also you feel comfortable, because otherwise you're not going
Kay Korsh: to be able to be 100% authentic when you speak
Kay Korsh: to them. I completely get that.
Joanne Lockwood: I think for me, it's how do I feel first?
Joanne Lockwood: And then what looks good for where I'm going to
Joanne Lockwood: be. I've got some dresses. I've got some outfits that I
Joanne Lockwood: would never wear on stage, even though I love wearing them. They bring me
Joanne Lockwood: joy casually, but I would never wear them on stage. I think
Joanne Lockwood: the dress is a little bit too short. I need a little bit on the
Joanne Lockwood: knee or below the knee or if I'm going to be walking around on
Joanne Lockwood: stage. I love these shoes, but they don't work on stage. I need
Joanne Lockwood: something I can maybe flats or certainly don't want
Joanne Lockwood: heels if I'm going to be standing up all day. I don't want to be
Joanne Lockwood: wearing something that is, I can't walk after about 4
Joanne Lockwood: hours. So you're thinking about the entire day. And
Joanne Lockwood: I find it. There's a lot more thought goes into
Joanne Lockwood: how I dress, how I look, how I feel as a
Joanne Lockwood: woman than I ever had in the past where I would just tend
Joanne Lockwood: to, pair of shoes, pair of trousers, shirt. Does it fit?
Joanne Lockwood: Does the tie work with a jacket? Put a jacket on. That was kind of
Joanne Lockwood: like it was off the peg. Now there's so many dynamics I have to
Joanne Lockwood: think about as a woman that are completely different. And it's
Joanne Lockwood: all these different combinations you have to think about, isn't it? And it's so
Kay Korsh: true. It's harder for women in terms of exactly. There is
Kay Korsh: more choice and it's easier to get lost. For
Kay Korsh: men, the main thing is that it's cut well and
Kay Korsh: it fits well, and the fabrics are good quality and things like this,
Kay Korsh: even when it comes to casual. But for women, it's more
Kay Korsh: about finding that style. And I think what
Kay Korsh: I help with when I work with somebody is
Kay Korsh: widening their horizons. Because people tend to kind of get in the
Kay Korsh: rut of wearing the same thing over and over again. And because style
Kay Korsh: is not something which is their specialty or
Kay Korsh: something what they're interested in, they just don't have as
Kay Korsh: much imagery in their head of different possibilities as I do.
Kay Korsh: So when we start working together, I start telling them, okay,
Kay Korsh: you can look into this and you can look into that, and you can still
Kay Korsh: keep your comfort zone, but expand
Kay Korsh: into different things you haven't tried before. I had my
Joanne Lockwood: colours done okay, four or five years ago, and it was
Joanne Lockwood: a fascinating day with a friend, and she was
Joanne Lockwood: always like, napkin hankies, and put them on my shoulder and put them around my
Joanne Lockwood: neck and see how my face changed and trying to get my skin tones.
Joanne Lockwood: And I really enjoyed the day, but
Joanne Lockwood: my brain didn't switch in to what she was
Joanne Lockwood: trying to say. She has so much passion about make me look good and how
Joanne Lockwood: I. But I just went, this sounds like too much effort.
Joanne Lockwood: I've now got all these rules I have to follow, and my brain
Joanne Lockwood: wasn't ready for that at the time. I suppose being a queer
Joanne Lockwood: woman, part of that gives me empowerment
Joanne Lockwood: to be queer, which doesn't always follow rules,
Joanne Lockwood: has a different rule set, I guess. Not that I don't want to look good,
Joanne Lockwood: not that I don't want to wear stuff that makes me feel comfortable
Joanne Lockwood: and resonates with the audience, but I felt
Joanne Lockwood: having just spent a big part of my life fitting
Joanne Lockwood: into a rule set that I've broken out of. I didn't want to go suddenly
Joanne Lockwood: into another rule set before I'd found myself completely.
Joanne Lockwood: I've wore some colours and I often wear a
Joanne Lockwood: silk scarf, which is a kind of an orangey yellow colour.
Joanne Lockwood: And every time I wear it, people go, wow, that is your colour, that really
Joanne Lockwood: you up? And that, I'm sure is one of the colours I was
Joanne Lockwood: told I should encourage. So that I do know
Joanne Lockwood: people do say things to me when I get it right, I
Joanne Lockwood: get it. So what happened to you on that day is
Kay Korsh: the reason why I structured my business the way I did.
Kay Korsh: I don't believe in quick transformations. I don't think you can just
Kay Korsh: click your fingers, go shopping with somebody for 2 hours and tell them
Kay Korsh: a set of rules of things, and then they're going to completely
Kay Korsh: agree with you and get transformed. Because we're all set in our
Kay Korsh: own ways and we are used to the way we are.
Kay Korsh: And it takes time for me to get to know you and for you to
Kay Korsh: get to know me and for you to get to know yourself. So
Kay Korsh: I always give a long time for that
Kay Korsh: transformation. And that's why I have a community which is an
Kay Korsh: ongoing process and goes from month to month on
Kay Korsh: different topics. And that's why I work with one to one clients
Kay Korsh: over three month period of time,
Kay Korsh: because you need time to get
Kay Korsh: there and I need time to get there as well, and to
Kay Korsh: find that kind of middle ground where we
Kay Korsh: agree on what works. Because you're absolutely right. If somebody
Kay Korsh: just reads you a set of rules or tells you you should do
Kay Korsh: this and you should do that, it is overwhelming, especially if
Kay Korsh: it's not your expertise and you don't know much about
Kay Korsh: it. I think part of it was I'd already
Joanne Lockwood: found some colours I liked and some styles I liked. And
Joanne Lockwood: I was almost being told that everything I kind of
Joanne Lockwood: got comfortable with didn't work for me. And I thought, hang on a minute, I
Joanne Lockwood: like them. There was no migration or
Joanne Lockwood: halfway house or actually, you can still wear that blue, but
Joanne Lockwood: if you're going to wear that blue, make sure you pair it with this. A
Joanne Lockwood: brighter colour or something to light the face up or something like that. Or yes,
Joanne Lockwood: wear it lower down your body, but up higher in your body where you're trying
Joanne Lockwood: to bring your face out and illuminate. Then think about these sort of colours. And
Joanne Lockwood: I go, okay, because I like
Joanne Lockwood: silver based jewellery and I was told that my colour was I should
Joanne Lockwood: be wearing more gold. I don't like wearing gold.
Joanne Lockwood: Jewellery. I'm not going to throw all my earrings away
Joanne Lockwood: and all my rings away and start going gold because
Joanne Lockwood: I prefer silver. So, yeah, it's trying to find that
Joanne Lockwood: marriage of comfort of what I want
Joanne Lockwood: versus what looks fantastic and people resonate with.
Kay Korsh: Yeah, and that takes time.
Joanne Lockwood: This is a podcast, people are listening, they can't see. You've got amazing
Joanne Lockwood: auburn hair, haven't you? I don't know how you would describe
Joanne Lockwood: the colour, but it's a beautiful, thick, curly,
Joanne Lockwood: reddish auburn colour.
Joanne Lockwood: You are a minority, if you like, in society, so you must find
Joanne Lockwood: it harder to find compliments or
Joanne Lockwood: complementary colours for your hair and makeup
Joanne Lockwood: and style, where your hair is not the typical,
Joanne Lockwood: actually. So this is not my natural hair colour. I try to
Kay Korsh: keep it as natural as possible, and normally people think
Kay Korsh: it's natural, but my natural colour is kind of like mousy
Kay Korsh: brown. But having red hair
Kay Korsh: suits me. I don't like wearing much makeup,
Kay Korsh: so if I do wear makeup, it's very little. As you can see
Kay Korsh: today, I don't have any makeup on, but when I have
Kay Korsh: my hair this colour, it's easier. Then I
Kay Korsh: don't really need much because it works with my complexion and that
Kay Korsh: feeds back into how important it is to wear the
Kay Korsh: colours which work for you. Because I have something which is called
Kay Korsh: warm undertone, so we all have either warm or cool
Kay Korsh: or neutral undertone, so I have warm undertone, which
Kay Korsh: means this warm red tone works
Kay Korsh: for me. So I kind of made it work for me and made my job
Kay Korsh: easier by doing my hair this colour.
Kay Korsh: And it's not difficult because then also I
Kay Korsh: wear warm tones in my clothes because these are the tones
Kay Korsh: which suit me. So it kind of supports the
Kay Korsh: colour of my hair, supports the colours that wear in my clothes. That's
Joanne Lockwood: fascinating. So I had no idea, obviously,
Joanne Lockwood: why should I? I think it is striking, as you say, your
Joanne Lockwood: complexion and you dress for it. It works
Joanne Lockwood: so well for who you are and it is you. So, yeah, I
Joanne Lockwood: guess you are living proof of your own
Joanne Lockwood: methodology. Thank you.
Joanne Lockwood: Your hair and the way you dress, your complexion all align.
Joanne Lockwood: So, yeah, it does work. I suppose that's the other thing. As a
Joanne Lockwood: woman, I now have my hair styled, I now have my hair dyed, I have
Joanne Lockwood: colour put in it. That's another outfit, isn't it?
Joanne Lockwood: Your hair is another outfit? Yes, 100%. And
Kay Korsh: you can think of it either as a con
Kay Korsh: or as a pro, because if you think about it as a positive,
Kay Korsh: you kind of can use it again to help
Kay Korsh: people around you, to connect with you for men. I guess it's more
Kay Korsh: limiting. And it is. I hate spending
Kay Korsh: time on the way I look. If it was up to me, I would
Kay Korsh: just go out in my pjs and not worry about
Kay Korsh: it. Surprisingly. I know it's very surprising,
Kay Korsh: but I look at these people
Kay Korsh: who say, for example, if I attend a
Kay Korsh: workshop or a master class by a man, and
Kay Korsh: they obviously didn't have to think about their hair and
Kay Korsh: their makeup, and I think to myself, I have to keep
Kay Korsh: it to minimum. I have to work it out in a way that I actually
Kay Korsh: spend as little amount of time as possible because I
Kay Korsh: don't want to spend my time
Kay Korsh: on getting ready. I want to spend it on something more
Kay Korsh: useful. So I think that's, again, a big
Kay Korsh: part of learning how to do this. And when I work with
Kay Korsh: clients, the majority of people are frustrated with the amount of time
Kay Korsh: they have to spend. This is one of their pain points. They want to minimise
Kay Korsh: that process. So how do you cut off
Kay Korsh: the unnecessary bites and just concentrate on making
Kay Korsh: that change? So the reason I dye my hair this
Kay Korsh: way is to make a visible, positive change,
Kay Korsh: which will help me without actually doing much on
Kay Korsh: everyday basis. Yeah, I'm one of these people that
Joanne Lockwood: I often don't know what I'm going to wear until
Joanne Lockwood: I put it on and then I go, yes, this
Joanne Lockwood: is what I'm thinking. So maybe I have an idea in it, or maybe I'll
Joanne Lockwood: wear that dress, or maybe I'll wear that dress, which is awkward. If I'm travelling
Joanne Lockwood: away, I'm staying in a hotel. I need to take about four or five dresses
Joanne Lockwood: with me because I don't know how I'm going to feel when I wake up.
Joanne Lockwood: And if I could see the night before, I will wear that. I wake up
Joanne Lockwood: in the morning, go, no, I don't feel that. That doesn't feel right to me
Joanne Lockwood: today. This is the one that I want to wear today. So it's almost like
Joanne Lockwood: it comes in that moment. There's that alignment of how
Joanne Lockwood: I feel, what I'm doing, and I need to have that
Joanne Lockwood: choice at that moment rather than just take one option and then I
Joanne Lockwood: go, I wish I bought the other one now.
Joanne Lockwood: Does it fit into that as well? Am I unique there? This
Joanne Lockwood: feeling about what you are definitely. Not unique because I'm
Kay Korsh: myself the same. And okay, with clothes, it doesn't work.
Kay Korsh: Exactly. It's not as hard for me because I obviously think
Kay Korsh: about it all the time and stuff like this, but it reminded me of my
Kay Korsh: way of social media and how people always teach us
Kay Korsh: how we need to batch create and we need to prepare our
Kay Korsh: posts on Monday for the whole week. And I
Kay Korsh: can never do this. I'm a very spontaneous person.
Kay Korsh: I prefer to do this on the day and do as I
Kay Korsh: wish and have this creativity spark where all
Kay Korsh: of a sudden I write this amazing post or what I
Kay Korsh: think sounds amazing, right? But in terms of
Kay Korsh: the clothes, what I normally suggest, and it
Kay Korsh: does take time. So you kind of have to
Kay Korsh: decide to spend time on it, is to try everything
Kay Korsh: on what you have and take pictures of yourself, just
Kay Korsh: selfies in the mirror so that, you know, this is the way
Kay Korsh: it looks on you and there won't be any surprises.
Kay Korsh: And also this is the time where you
Kay Korsh: can just play around and try it with different footwear,
Kay Korsh: different layering. So this process
Kay Korsh: is really helpful to spark that
Kay Korsh: creativity in you and actually to understand what is also
Kay Korsh: worth keeping and what is worth giving away. Because
Kay Korsh: you need that space in your wardrobe, because that will create space in
Kay Korsh: your head as well. So it will be less overwhelming when you open the
Kay Korsh: wardrobe if you have less stuff in it and don't need the stuff which actually
Kay Korsh: works. So I really highly recommend to
Kay Korsh: either do it by yourself, put some music on and just spend a couple of
Kay Korsh: hours going through everything and taking pictures, or do
Kay Korsh: it with your family member or a friend because that
Kay Korsh: exercise really opens your eyes
Kay Korsh: on things. Why are you laughing? Sorry, I'm not sticking
Joanne Lockwood: away. I could just see my wife indulging me for a
Joanne Lockwood: day when I twelve lots of outfits and she takes photographs. I think
Joanne Lockwood: I might be able to get her to take one or two, but I'm not
Joanne Lockwood: sure I could get her to do a photo shoot for
Joanne Lockwood: her. She's not into clothes.
Joanne Lockwood: Who knows what she is? I just think she might find that a little bit
Joanne Lockwood: overindulging for me. But no, I could do selfies. And
Joanne Lockwood: I often use Facebook and post things on Facebook
Joanne Lockwood: and I find myself using this
Joanne Lockwood: time last year, this time two years ago, this time three years ago. And I
Joanne Lockwood: look at those sometimes those time hop type posts and think, oh,
Joanne Lockwood: I love that dress. I wonder where that dress is. What have I done with
Joanne Lockwood: that outfit? All those shoes. I like those shoes. So sometimes I remind myself
Joanne Lockwood: of what was in my head three or four years ago and I go,
Joanne Lockwood: yeah, I've evolved away from that, but that was great. I love that.
Joanne Lockwood: I go back to the wardrobe and I go, where is that? Oh yeah, bring
Joanne Lockwood: it out and start wearing it again. The danger of that is I end
Joanne Lockwood: up wearing the same outfit on the same day each year
Joanne Lockwood: because it pops up from last year to go, I like that. And I've done
Joanne Lockwood: that before. I've looked back and gone last year, the year before, the year before
Joanne Lockwood: that, I'm wearing the same outfit because it's reminded me of the outfit. And I
Joanne Lockwood: go, oh, I really want to wear that again. What you can
Kay Korsh: do, even before you do the exercise, which I told you
Kay Korsh: about, is go through those pictures and save them on your phone
Kay Korsh: in a folder, so you have an album on your phone. And
Kay Korsh: then when you think about you're going to go to a conference
Kay Korsh: or something where you need four or five outfits, you will have that
Kay Korsh: folder to spark your memory and creativity.
Kay Korsh: And that will be a good start because you will look at it and you
Kay Korsh: will remember, this is what it looks. This is good for the panel, or this
Kay Korsh: is good for standing up or different
Kay Korsh: occasions. Yeah, some of these are just me going to Sainsbury's, me going for
Joanne Lockwood: a coffee. So this is kind of casual stuff as well. So it's just t
Joanne Lockwood: shirts or a dress or, I don't know, pair of trains or something.
Joanne Lockwood: But yeah, it's interesting. And I also noticed,
Joanne Lockwood: because I'm a stage speaker, I stand up in front of people. And inevitably, when
Joanne Lockwood: you're on stage, people take photographs, or you ask people to take photographs, you've
Joanne Lockwood: got video, you got footage. So I'm really conscious about making
Joanne Lockwood: sure I'm wearing something different often, because
Joanne Lockwood: otherwise, every stock photograph you ever have of you, every social media
Joanne Lockwood: post, you're wearing the same thing, even though I like it. So
Joanne Lockwood: I am really hyper focused on making sure I have a change of
Joanne Lockwood: outfits. And I will think, what did I wear this week? What did I
Joanne Lockwood: wear last week? What sort of event is it? Am I going to
Joanne Lockwood: get photographed? Am I going to get videoed? What do I want out of this
Joanne Lockwood: from a marketing perspective? So that's another
Joanne Lockwood: dimension, isn't it, to what we talk about, how we plan?
Joanne Lockwood: Is this outfit overexposed already?
Kay Korsh: So another way to be organised, and that's for people
Kay Korsh: out there who like being organised.
Kay Korsh: Another thing which I recommend is to take lay flat
Kay Korsh: pictures of what you own. So, for example, if it's
Kay Korsh: a dress, it might be just a standalone outfit, just a dress. But obviously
Kay Korsh: you need to think about the shoes as well. Or it could be trousers,
Kay Korsh: plus top and blazer or whatever it is.
Kay Korsh: And what I recommend is to take pictures of every
Kay Korsh: single item you have in your wardrobe and then
Kay Korsh: you can use either canva to remove the
Kay Korsh: background. And a lot of people who have their own businesses, they
Kay Korsh: use canva to create graphics for social media. So
Kay Korsh: it's likely that you know what I'm talking about and you can
Kay Korsh: remove the background of all of those things and then you can have
Kay Korsh: different pages in the document on
Kay Korsh: canva of different occasions. So you could, for
Kay Korsh: example, create a page about
Kay Korsh: workshops you run or about big
Kay Korsh: speeches in front of 2000 people or 5000 people.
Kay Korsh: So kind of create different outfits for
Kay Korsh: different occasions and then it will be very visual. And the reason why
Kay Korsh: it's better in that case to take lay flat
Kay Korsh: images rather than selfies is that you can then
Kay Korsh: drag the same top with, say, for example,
Kay Korsh: you have the same pair of trousers and five different tops. So you can create
Kay Korsh: five outfits like that. So this is
Kay Korsh: another way where you can then again, if you are
Kay Korsh: organised and it helps you, you can then
Kay Korsh: sit down and think, okay, I have a conference to go to next week
Kay Korsh: and they need five different outfits. And then you can look through those outfits
Kay Korsh: and decide on which day what you are going to wear, depending
Kay Korsh: on what you are doing at the conference on that day. I started
Joanne Lockwood: doing that and I think it's part of my evolution
Joanne Lockwood: as a speaker and as a woman to recognise that you can't wear the same
Joanne Lockwood: thing twice. You have to accessorise, you have to have mix and match,
Joanne Lockwood: turn one outfit into three outfits by just swapping one part
Joanne Lockwood: of it, sort of thing. So yeah, it is. And
Joanne Lockwood: when we go to using the professional speaking association conference as an
Joanne Lockwood: example, that's kind of a four day event. By the time you've got the
Joanne Lockwood: pre, so you've got a couple of dinners, you've got a posh night, you've got
Joanne Lockwood: some stage time, you've also got some casual nights, you've got some meet and greet
Joanne Lockwood: stuff. So yeah, there's a whole load of different scenarios you're dressing
Joanne Lockwood: for, whereas being on stage is just maybe one of
Joanne Lockwood: those scenarios. The rest of it is the networking, the
Joanne Lockwood: mixing, socialising and all the other stuff. So being an audience member, so
Joanne Lockwood: you got to try and think about all those different dynamics again, we talked about
Joanne Lockwood: the beginning, about being comfortable and relaxed,
Joanne Lockwood: thinking about the temperature, the air conditioning,
Joanne Lockwood: the amount of time on your feet, going to the
Joanne Lockwood: toilet. You think, I can't take all this off every five minutes if I'm wearing
Joanne Lockwood: a nice jumpsuit. I've got to think about all those kind of things as well,
Joanne Lockwood: isn't it? So there's a huge amount of stuff going on here,
Joanne Lockwood: let alone has it look, has it fit? What's the
Joanne Lockwood: colour and what does it say about me? It's a
Joanne Lockwood: minefield. Wow. I'm just being blown away here. Yes. I
Kay Korsh: think the one where you actually get on stage is the most
Kay Korsh: important, because you are kind of centre of attention. You need to make
Kay Korsh: sure that there are not many
Kay Korsh: unnecessary creases and the outfit fits well.
Kay Korsh: But with the rest of it, it can be more casual or more
Kay Korsh: playful, depending on what you're doing. So,
Kay Korsh: yeah, I think that organisational tools
Kay Korsh: which I described, definitely, I see
Kay Korsh: a lot of success with people who are using that and that they find
Kay Korsh: it helpful. So let me just flip over
Joanne Lockwood: to the other side. So you see a lot of success. Where does it
Joanne Lockwood: go badly wrong? What are typical mistakes people might make?
Joanne Lockwood: Maybe talk about people who, maybe men, maybe women. What are the
Joanne Lockwood: mistakes that people often make? So, for
Kay Korsh: men, as I mentioned before, it's really important to
Kay Korsh: get it neat. It has to be neat.
Kay Korsh: And exactly as I mentioned just now, the way I describe,
Kay Korsh: what does it mean that something fits you? Well? It means that there are
Kay Korsh: as little unnecessary lines when you look at yourself as
Kay Korsh: possible. So it's very important that if you are going on
Kay Korsh: stage, whenever you are preparing your outfit to go
Kay Korsh: on stage, you need to try this outfit in front of a
Kay Korsh: full length mirror. And if you haven't got a full length mirror and you're a
Kay Korsh: public professional speaker, you have to get one, because
Kay Korsh: you need to see, head to toe, what you're wearing.
Kay Korsh: So making sure there are no stains, making
Kay Korsh: sure that nothing can be undone by
Kay Korsh: accident. So I have this example I quite often show
Kay Korsh: at my workshops of a woman
Kay Korsh: wearing a blouse with a
Kay Korsh: string which got undone. So what I always talk
Kay Korsh: about is make sure that what you're wearing can't, by
Kay Korsh: accident, get undone and go wrong. So maybe
Kay Korsh: it's better to avoid something with the string which might get undone. And
Kay Korsh: it's not to say that you have to wear something super minimalist, because for
Kay Korsh: some people, they like expressing themselves through
Kay Korsh: clothes and you can play around so much. There are
Kay Korsh: loads of different ways to play around with your outfit, but just making sure that
Kay Korsh: it can't go wrong by accident or you missed
Kay Korsh: something. Like, for example, another time,
Kay Korsh: what happened is somebody shared this with me where the speaker
Kay Korsh: was on stage and they had the prop in their pocket, so they took
Kay Korsh: the prop out of the pocket and then the lining of the pocket came out
Kay Korsh: and then everything. What people were looking at was
Kay Korsh: that pocket lining. They weren't listening to him.
Kay Korsh: Anymore. Right. So it's these things which
Kay Korsh: matter even before I start talking about the
Kay Korsh: shapes and the colours which work for you is try the outfit
Kay Korsh: before, make sure there are no stains, that it's ironed.
Kay Korsh: Also, you kind of need to go for
Kay Korsh: fabrics which don't crease as much. And I learned
Kay Korsh: this as I start speaking more in front of the
Kay Korsh: audiences, that I need to think a lot about it. And there
Kay Korsh: are brands out there which specifically are
Kay Korsh: designed fantastically well, which use fabrics which
Kay Korsh: don't crease as much. So I would always recommend
Kay Korsh: to go for those, because it's just straight away when your
Kay Korsh: look is untidy, unexpectedly
Kay Korsh: untidy. Especially around the kind of hips and waist
Joanne Lockwood: where you sort of stretch when you sit down, you end up with those
Joanne Lockwood: horizontal lines exactly around your middle if you're not careful, don't you?
Kay Korsh: Exactly. Yeah. I think we're both at the same
Joanne Lockwood: meeting on Saturday, the professional speaker association meeting in London. And one
Joanne Lockwood: thing that sparked from a conversation as a result of that
Joanne Lockwood: was microphone radio packs that
Joanne Lockwood: we speakers. You put your lav mic on, you have a mic pack
Joanne Lockwood: somewhere, and you've got to think about where you're going to hang it as a
Joanne Lockwood: man. You can put it in your pocket, maybe clip it to your belt. And
Joanne Lockwood: I noticed one of the speakers on Saturday had it clipped in the top
Joanne Lockwood: of her knee length boots, which I always find is a great place to clip
Joanne Lockwood: it in the back of your boots. It's always a sound place to put your
Joanne Lockwood: mic back, but, yeah, sometimes it's clipped to your back of your
Joanne Lockwood: bra, your shapewear or your back of your dress, under your hair,
Joanne Lockwood: at the back of your neck. But, yeah, you got to think about that as
Joanne Lockwood: well, because the weight of that also pulled down.
Joanne Lockwood: So if you've kind of got it in your suit pocket or a breast pocket,
Joanne Lockwood: it will create that imbalance as well, won't it? Yeah. So you just mentioned
Kay Korsh: loads of ways where to do it. So you mentioned
Kay Korsh: boots, bra strap, belt pocket.
Kay Korsh: One other thing, which I heard from another speaker, which I thought
Kay Korsh: was fantastic, is that they cut off
Kay Korsh: the PJs, belt line, so the elastic
Kay Korsh: of an old pjs, which they wear under the dress,
Kay Korsh: and they put the transmitter in there,
Kay Korsh: hook it in there, and then that's another place where
Kay Korsh: you can put it if you don't have a belt or any other
Kay Korsh: places to do it. So I think that's
Kay Korsh: definitely 100% a very important point as well, to think about when
Kay Korsh: you prepare your outfit. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: And when you're starting on speaking circuit, you don't always think about
Joanne Lockwood: it. The person comes up to you say, where am I going to clip this?
Joanne Lockwood: I was lucky. I took part in a tv documentary
Joanne Lockwood: about six, seven years ago and we did it for about
Joanne Lockwood: three years. And I was always having a mic pack put on me in various
Joanne Lockwood: different casual outfits. I'm quite used to someone lifting my dress
Joanne Lockwood: up, pulling my top up, just letting someone put it on me. But as a
Joanne Lockwood: speaker, you got to get prepared to have the Av
Joanne Lockwood: tech just putting a bites on you and disrupting
Joanne Lockwood: you. So if you've got everything really together, you're in a little room
Joanne Lockwood: and someone's going to be wiring you up, you got to think about how you're
Joanne Lockwood: going to handle that. Yeah, it definitely all comes with experience.
Kay Korsh: And you can have a checklist of
Kay Korsh: things, what you need to do in order to
Kay Korsh: prepare. I think I saw a post of yours on LinkedIn the other week
Joanne Lockwood: around trouser length on men,
Joanne Lockwood: making sure that it doesn't bunch up on the top of your
Joanne Lockwood: shoe. Because that, again, can look scruffy
Joanne Lockwood: or you haven't taken the time to have your trousers taken up a couple of
Joanne Lockwood: inches. Yes. And it applies to women as well.
Kay Korsh: And the majority of the time, you have to do something about
Kay Korsh: the stuff which you buy, because
Kay Korsh: if you're buying it off a shelf in a store,
Kay Korsh: they are making it, obviously, for mass production. So it doesn't matter if it's
Kay Korsh: a high end brand or high street brand,
Kay Korsh: it's very likely that you are going to do some adjustments
Kay Korsh: to this. And the length of the trousers is a very common one,
Kay Korsh: which you need to do something about. And it's
Kay Korsh: just knowing how crucially important it is, because it can
Kay Korsh: literally rack up the whole look, if you will look
Kay Korsh: frumpy and untidy if the trousers are too
Kay Korsh: long. My pet hate on people. We talk about judgement.
Joanne Lockwood: When I judge people, it's generally around the
Joanne Lockwood: front of someone's shirt or top, where the buttons are under
Joanne Lockwood: tension. There's too much belly or too much
Joanne Lockwood: boob, if you like, creating that gape. And
Joanne Lockwood: that's my pet hate is a shirt that's too tight or a blouse that's too
Joanne Lockwood: tight. Yes. So I always recommend
Kay Korsh: to go one size bigger than one size smaller.
Kay Korsh: And we don't want to let go of that size, don't we?
Kay Korsh: We don't want to go one size up. Because it's like, if I
Kay Korsh: admit to myself that I am one size bigger than I
Kay Korsh: was, it's the end of the world. In reality, it's
Kay Korsh: actually, you're going to look bigger if the item
Kay Korsh: is too tight on you. So I always recommend to go one size
Kay Korsh: bigger and sometimes we are between sizes,
Kay Korsh: in which case we need to take it to the tailors or a
Kay Korsh: seamstress to adjust with men's
Kay Korsh: shirts. I do recommend to wear a vest
Kay Korsh: under a shirt to avoid that situation, apart from the
Kay Korsh: fact that it might. So just first make sure that it's not
Kay Korsh: too tight and it doesn't gape. And then wearing
Kay Korsh: a vest also helps, just in case. And sometimes some
Kay Korsh: shirts are a little bit too transparent. And for women,
Kay Korsh: actually, a lot of the time, you might want to
Kay Korsh: try different types of blouses which don't even have those
Kay Korsh: buttons. That might be helpful. If somebody has a big
Kay Korsh: bust, it's quite often a problem that it's going to gap, even if it's
Kay Korsh: the correct size. Or if you found a
Kay Korsh: blouse which is your classic blouse with
Kay Korsh: buttons and you do want to wear it. And there are
Kay Korsh: also ways which measures you can take
Kay Korsh: to avoid this problem. One of the things you can do
Kay Korsh: is put tiny little poppers between the buttons
Kay Korsh: so that there is more support in the middle where the
Kay Korsh: buttons are. You could even, depending
Kay Korsh: on the structure of the bites, sometimes you get things which have
Kay Korsh: buttons in the back and buttons at the front, for example, and the front
Kay Korsh: ones are just for show or something, so you can even
Kay Korsh: stitch it together. So it depends on the actual item and
Kay Korsh: you kind of need to look at it one by one. But I really
Kay Korsh: highly recommend to have your trusted seamstress or a
Kay Korsh: tailor which you can take the bites to after you bought it,
Kay Korsh: if you think that something is wrong and then ask them for their opinion,
Kay Korsh: what you think can be done to fix that. I think we were saying
Joanne Lockwood: earlier is use that full length mirror and also recognise, no matter
Joanne Lockwood: how much you like that outfit or that top or how much it resonates and
Joanne Lockwood: makes you feel good, you have to be honest and look in the mirror and
Joanne Lockwood: say, actually, this doesn't work today, I'll wear it a
Joanne Lockwood: different day, or maybe not in this scenario,
Joanne Lockwood: or just start choosing outfits with more lycra in them
Joanne Lockwood: so there's more give. That's my friend, making
Joanne Lockwood: sure that the outfit itself has a bit of give. Talking
Kay Korsh: about stretchy fabrics, I think
Kay Korsh: stretchy can be good, but it's also really important that it
Kay Korsh: does hold shape. So I never recommend kind
Kay Korsh: of thin jersey or thin
Kay Korsh: knitwear, because it just shows everything
Kay Korsh: and that's not what you want as a speaker. Right. You
Kay Korsh: don't want people to see your underwear
Kay Korsh: lines under the clothes. And
Kay Korsh: again, it distracts from the message. So
Kay Korsh: even if your general look is more relaxed,
Kay Korsh: and I always encourage that if that's where you want to go,
Kay Korsh: you can find things which are made out of substantial
Kay Korsh: fabric which keep that shape and just look more
Kay Korsh: premium, and you will look more respected to the
Kay Korsh: audience. Or just wear really reinforced shapewear underneath
Joanne Lockwood: and create that smooth line. Yes, but it's
Kay Korsh: also not for everybody. Some people find it really uncomfortable.
Kay Korsh: And again, if somebody doesn't want to do that, I don't
Kay Korsh: encourage that. That's very personal. And again, there are
Kay Korsh: lots of different shapes you can find to find
Kay Korsh: that middle ground where you are comfortable. And also you look presentable.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. No, I completely agree. That's great
Joanne Lockwood: advice, Kay. It's been fascinating. We've been chatting now
Joanne Lockwood: for over an hour, right, from talking about your
Joanne Lockwood: childhood in the soviet era, Ukraine and
Joanne Lockwood: Odessa through to some of the conflict today, and then your passion
Joanne Lockwood: for style and helping people look fantastic,
Joanne Lockwood: how can people get hold of you? They want to find more about your
Joanne Lockwood: services or just say hi on some of that. How do people get hold of
Joanne Lockwood: you? I would love for people to connect with me on LinkedIn, and it's very
Kay Korsh: easy to find me. You just put in my name, Kay
Kay Korsh: Korsh, and you will find me. And please connect
Kay Korsh: and ask me any questions. And I am
Kay Korsh: working with men and women, and
Kay Korsh: I am also growing a community of like
Kay Korsh: minded women speakers where I support them and
Kay Korsh: they can talk to each other and ask questions as well
Kay Korsh: about style. And we all go through the style journey together. And
Kay Korsh: this is something which I'm really passionate about at the moment. So if you
Kay Korsh: want to hear more news about it, find me on LinkedIn and
Kay Korsh: let's chat. Awesome. And just so people know
Joanne Lockwood: it, K-A-Y Kosh
Joanne Lockwood: K-O-R-S-H. And I'll put all the details in the show notes
Joanne Lockwood: as well, how to get hold of you. Kay, fascinating. Thank you so
Joanne Lockwood: much. Thank you very much. I really, really appreciate you having
Kay Korsh: me. Here, and maybe one day I'll ask you and be brave enough to find
Joanne Lockwood: out if I'm getting it right or getting it wrong. But let's save that conversation
Joanne Lockwood: for another day. But thank you. And also, thank you to you,
Joanne Lockwood: the listeners, for tuning in, for listening to the end. I really
Joanne Lockwood: value your support on this channel, on this podcast. Please
Joanne Lockwood: do subscribe follow like to keep in
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Joanne Lockwood: B-I-T-E-S bites. Tell your friends, tell your colleagues.
Joanne Lockwood: And if you feel minded, why not leave a review or share this on
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Joanne Lockwood: this. And remember. Also, if you'd like to be a guest, then please let
Joanne Lockwood: me know. And I also welcome comments, feedbacks, and suggestions to
Joanne Lockwood: jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk
Joanne Lockwood: how can we improve? So finally, my name is Joanne
Joanne Lockwood: Lockwood and it's been an absolute pleasure to host this podcast for you
Joanne Lockwood: today. Catch you next time. Bye.