WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.130 --> 00:00:04.766 Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood and I'm your host for the 2 00:00:04.788 --> 00:00:08.446 Inclusion Bites podcast. In this series, I've interviewed a number of 3 00:00:08.468 --> 00:00:11.806 amazing people and simply had a conversation around the subject of 4 00:00:11.828 --> 00:00:15.582 inclusion, belonging and generally making the world a better place 5 00:00:15.636 --> 00:00:19.246 for everyone to thrive. To join me in the future, then please do drop me 6 00:00:19.268 --> 00:00:22.942 a line to jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 7 00:00:22.996 --> 00:00:26.706 That's S-E-E Change Happenn dot Co dot UK. Of course, 8 00:00:26.898 --> 00:00:30.614 you catch up with all of the previous shows on iTunes, Spotify and the usual 9 00:00:30.652 --> 00:00:34.358 places. So plug in your headphones, grab a 10 00:00:34.364 --> 00:00:38.194 decaf and let's get going. Today is episode 11 00:00:38.242 --> 00:00:41.978 105 with the title Voice for Change and I 12 00:00:41.984 --> 00:00:45.286 have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Fiona Brennan 13 00:00:45.318 --> 00:00:48.470 Scott. Fiona is a trainer, coach, 14 00:00:48.630 --> 00:00:51.594 speaker and author of Breathtaking 15 00:00:51.642 --> 00:00:55.438 Communication. When I asked Fiona to describe her superpower, she said 16 00:00:55.524 --> 00:00:58.906 she can identify the strengths people have with their engagement 17 00:00:58.938 --> 00:01:01.934 skills and key changes that will be 18 00:01:01.972 --> 00:01:05.762 transformative. Hello, Fiona, welcome to the show. Hello, 19 00:01:05.816 --> 00:01:08.706 Joanne, and thank you for having me here. Absolute pleasure. So, 20 00:01:08.728 --> 00:01:12.514 Fiona, voice for change, how does that 21 00:01:12.552 --> 00:01:16.120 resonate with you? I love the description. Thank you very much. 22 00:01:16.570 --> 00:01:20.018 I say in my book that our voice 23 00:01:20.114 --> 00:01:23.734 has got a voice with a small v and a capital v, because 24 00:01:23.852 --> 00:01:27.334 the small voice is the physical thing, 25 00:01:27.452 --> 00:01:31.290 what's made in our voice box. But voice with a capital v 26 00:01:31.360 --> 00:01:34.554 is our identity. It's who we are. It's what 27 00:01:34.592 --> 00:01:37.610 differentiates us from all other living creatures, 28 00:01:37.950 --> 00:01:41.694 because we get to use words and language to 29 00:01:41.732 --> 00:01:45.166 express ourselves and put ourselves out there in the 30 00:01:45.188 --> 00:01:48.414 room. Oh, that's beautiful. I think that's really 31 00:01:48.452 --> 00:01:52.110 beautiful. I can relate. So much voice is 32 00:01:52.180 --> 00:01:55.234 so much more than just the noise and the sound 33 00:01:55.432 --> 00:01:59.266 and the waves that resonates in our ear. As you say, 34 00:01:59.288 --> 00:02:02.866 the identity expresses our happiness, our sadness, our 35 00:02:02.888 --> 00:02:06.402 passion, whatever it may be. I think that's truly beautiful. It also helps 36 00:02:06.466 --> 00:02:10.070 explain why there is so much fear around public speaking, 37 00:02:10.220 --> 00:02:13.846 because to put our identity out into a space is an 38 00:02:13.868 --> 00:02:17.686 extremely vulnerable act and we take speaking for 39 00:02:17.708 --> 00:02:21.274 granted because we've been talking all our lives and we think 40 00:02:21.312 --> 00:02:24.986 everyone should be able to do it. But actually, to stand up and 41 00:02:25.008 --> 00:02:28.506 speak is sharing our story, our thoughts, our 42 00:02:28.528 --> 00:02:32.062 feelings with the world, and to be rejected, to be 43 00:02:32.116 --> 00:02:35.278 dismissed is an extremely painful act. 44 00:02:35.364 --> 00:02:39.118 So when I work with the client, I hold 45 00:02:39.204 --> 00:02:41.950 the preciousness of that identity 46 00:02:42.610 --> 00:02:46.274 and seek to honour it in my work with them. So I 47 00:02:46.312 --> 00:02:49.550 consider it a very. It's almost emotionally 48 00:02:49.630 --> 00:02:53.346 surgical to do that work and to help them have the 49 00:02:53.368 --> 00:02:57.054 courage to grow and change and dare to achieve 50 00:02:57.102 --> 00:03:00.950 their. To accomplish their full. Because when you are public speaking 51 00:03:01.020 --> 00:03:04.070 or standing up in front of a group, whether you're a leader, 52 00:03:04.410 --> 00:03:08.178 briefing the team, state of the nation talk, or leading 53 00:03:08.194 --> 00:03:11.690 a project, whatever it may be, or professionally speaking, you are 54 00:03:11.760 --> 00:03:15.514 effectively putting yourself out there. Your ideas and people 55 00:03:15.552 --> 00:03:19.238 are going to judge you. We're very judgmental species, aren't 56 00:03:19.254 --> 00:03:22.870 we? How you look, how you sound, let alone 57 00:03:23.030 --> 00:03:26.702 way we think and what we're telling people. There's a whole judgement there. And 58 00:03:26.756 --> 00:03:30.426 if you're not used to that, that fear, and it's a real fear, 59 00:03:30.458 --> 00:03:34.174 isn't it? That of being judged or rejected, that 60 00:03:34.212 --> 00:03:37.922 all comes into this public speaking error, doesn't it? Yes. And my 61 00:03:37.976 --> 00:03:41.682 mission is to level the playing field, because there's only 62 00:03:41.736 --> 00:03:45.166 a small, select group of people, particularly in the 63 00:03:45.208 --> 00:03:49.030 UK, that are stepping up and speaking out, 64 00:03:49.100 --> 00:03:52.790 especially in government. And what if we could level the 65 00:03:52.860 --> 00:03:56.642 playing field and give everyone the courage, whether it's gender, race, 66 00:03:56.706 --> 00:04:00.474 whatever identity group they belong to, to be 67 00:04:00.512 --> 00:04:04.154 heard and not fear the rejection? I think 68 00:04:04.272 --> 00:04:08.074 we would have a true democracy where 69 00:04:08.192 --> 00:04:11.550 we would have people representing us who are good 70 00:04:11.620 --> 00:04:15.374 people. That's an interesting saying. Talk 71 00:04:15.412 --> 00:04:19.182 about good people. Are people fundamentally good or bad? 72 00:04:19.316 --> 00:04:23.070 I think there's a perception that people are fundamentally bad 73 00:04:23.140 --> 00:04:26.770 or out for themselves. But studies I've seen show that people 74 00:04:26.840 --> 00:04:30.434 inherently believe they are good people. Everyone believes they're a good 75 00:04:30.472 --> 00:04:34.094 person from their own perspective. No one wake up and say, I'm an evil 76 00:04:34.142 --> 00:04:37.494 person, would they? They all believe they have a perspective, that they're doing 77 00:04:37.532 --> 00:04:41.090 good for some reason. I think it's about capacity. 78 00:04:41.250 --> 00:04:44.870 I think we have the capacity for both. And we're shaped by 79 00:04:44.940 --> 00:04:48.714 our environment, by who loved us and how we were 80 00:04:48.752 --> 00:04:52.218 loved or didn't love us. And so there's so many 81 00:04:52.304 --> 00:04:56.134 internal. There are so many external 82 00:04:56.182 --> 00:04:59.834 factors that influence who we become. And 83 00:04:59.872 --> 00:05:03.434 good or bad can be very moral judgments, so they're not 84 00:05:03.472 --> 00:05:07.246 necessarily helpful. Yeah. So when you're working with your 85 00:05:07.268 --> 00:05:10.926 clients and your coaching, what are the key challenges? I mean, we talked about this, 86 00:05:10.948 --> 00:05:14.482 overcoming the fear, but what are the key things that hold people 87 00:05:14.536 --> 00:05:18.318 back fundamentally in their communications and their engagement styles? 88 00:05:18.414 --> 00:05:21.794 It's such a wide variety. Joe. I'm very 89 00:05:21.832 --> 00:05:25.102 fortunate to work with a very diverse group of people. 90 00:05:25.256 --> 00:05:28.918 And if I think about the last couple of years, 91 00:05:29.084 --> 00:05:32.694 often it can be accents where people feel that 92 00:05:32.732 --> 00:05:36.166 they're not heard because of their accent. And 93 00:05:36.268 --> 00:05:39.962 interestingly enough, the people that really need the help aren't in the room 94 00:05:40.016 --> 00:05:43.562 because that's about audience perception and often about 95 00:05:43.616 --> 00:05:47.210 audience education. So it can be about giving the person 96 00:05:47.280 --> 00:05:50.954 the confidence to challenge people who aren't listening and 97 00:05:50.992 --> 00:05:54.634 to set people up for good listening and to challenge 98 00:05:54.682 --> 00:05:58.494 where people are discriminating. And you can't do that without confidence and 99 00:05:58.532 --> 00:06:02.014 without the affirmation that I often give people to 100 00:06:02.052 --> 00:06:05.874 celebrate their accent and understand that it's very much 101 00:06:05.912 --> 00:06:09.486 a part of their identity to get back to what we opened 102 00:06:09.518 --> 00:06:13.154 with. It's also across the board. I would say one of the main 103 00:06:13.192 --> 00:06:16.614 challenges, about 80% of my client base are in 104 00:06:16.652 --> 00:06:19.442 STEM science, technology, engineering, medical, 105 00:06:19.506 --> 00:06:22.934 manufacturing, accountancy. And they 106 00:06:22.972 --> 00:06:26.786 have gravitated towards what they love, whether it's 107 00:06:26.818 --> 00:06:30.426 figures, engineering, scientific stuff, and 108 00:06:30.448 --> 00:06:34.250 they've become really good at that. They've studied it, they are subject matter 109 00:06:34.320 --> 00:06:38.042 experts. But actually, as they are promoted and I work 110 00:06:38.096 --> 00:06:41.790 with either current or aspiring leaders, they find that 111 00:06:41.860 --> 00:06:45.646 their main job is now not about the thing that they studied, but 112 00:06:45.668 --> 00:06:49.358 about leading people who are doing that and they 113 00:06:49.444 --> 00:06:52.914 realise they don't have those communication skills to 114 00:06:52.952 --> 00:06:56.414 effectively engage their audience, their stakeholders, 115 00:06:56.462 --> 00:07:00.178 whoever that is, whether it's a conference, whether it's a 116 00:07:00.184 --> 00:07:03.966 meeting room and putting a presentation together and delivering 117 00:07:03.998 --> 00:07:07.446 that is something that terrifies them. And I 118 00:07:07.468 --> 00:07:11.234 think it's almost worse for someone who's a subject matter expert 119 00:07:11.282 --> 00:07:14.774 because they've become really comfortable and really confident in 120 00:07:14.812 --> 00:07:17.814 that expertise and now they're feeling 121 00:07:17.862 --> 00:07:21.386 incompetent because they're not getting their message across. 122 00:07:21.568 --> 00:07:25.274 So most of my audience, most of my 123 00:07:25.312 --> 00:07:28.554 clients need the tools and techniques to close the 124 00:07:28.592 --> 00:07:32.286 gap between being competent, being 125 00:07:32.388 --> 00:07:36.030 very competent in their field and being confident at 126 00:07:36.100 --> 00:07:39.280 communicating that. Yeah, because there's a huge gap between 127 00:07:39.650 --> 00:07:43.294 knowing your stuff and being able to communicate that in a way where 128 00:07:43.332 --> 00:07:47.026 people can understand it, resonate with it, take something away from it, 129 00:07:47.048 --> 00:07:50.734 take action themselves. Yes. And interestingly 130 00:07:50.782 --> 00:07:54.402 enough, the people I don't draw as clients is the people who lack self 131 00:07:54.456 --> 00:07:58.262 awareness, because there are an awful lot of people out there 132 00:07:58.316 --> 00:08:01.830 who aren't aware that they're not good at that. And 133 00:08:01.900 --> 00:08:05.574 sadly, they're in front of meeting rooms and 134 00:08:05.692 --> 00:08:08.922 audiences because of their expertise, but they're not 135 00:08:08.976 --> 00:08:12.746 effectively communicating and it becomes the job of 136 00:08:12.768 --> 00:08:16.586 the audience to decipher and interpret the key message. 137 00:08:16.688 --> 00:08:19.914 And that can be quite exhausting if the 138 00:08:19.952 --> 00:08:23.678 person speaking isn't making it easy for them. Yeah, you got 139 00:08:23.684 --> 00:08:27.214 to be able to turn complex information 140 00:08:27.412 --> 00:08:31.182 into bite sized chunks that I always say 141 00:08:31.236 --> 00:08:34.426 that a Daily Mail reader could understand. The average age, or I believe a Daily 142 00:08:34.458 --> 00:08:37.698 Mail reader's reading age is about eleven or twelve years old. So you got to 143 00:08:37.704 --> 00:08:41.314 try and remove the buzzwords remove the acronyms. And again, you talk about the self 144 00:08:41.352 --> 00:08:45.106 awareness. If you're not aware that you are falling into lingo and 145 00:08:45.128 --> 00:08:48.338 jargon and assuming a level of knowledge, 146 00:08:48.514 --> 00:08:52.294 then that's where you leave people behind. You're not always speaking 147 00:08:52.332 --> 00:08:55.894 to your peers, you're speaking to educate, or speaking to get a thought 148 00:08:55.932 --> 00:08:58.650 across. Yeah, I find that hugely 149 00:08:59.070 --> 00:09:02.886 challenging. It's about so much more than the words, though, Joe, 150 00:09:02.918 --> 00:09:06.586 because a lot of how we communicate is about our 151 00:09:06.608 --> 00:09:09.500 body language, about making eye contact. 152 00:09:10.210 --> 00:09:13.566 It's a dance between the audience and us, 153 00:09:13.748 --> 00:09:17.582 where only one party is speaking, but we can listen and 154 00:09:17.636 --> 00:09:20.938 watch and have that conversation with our audience 155 00:09:21.034 --> 00:09:24.642 through our engagement and picking up on their body 156 00:09:24.696 --> 00:09:28.242 language and their facial expression, but also 157 00:09:28.296 --> 00:09:31.922 having body language and facial expression of our own that we 158 00:09:31.976 --> 00:09:35.746 are perfectly capable of doing in a one to one. But when 159 00:09:35.768 --> 00:09:39.270 we get to stand in front of an audience, something happens 160 00:09:39.340 --> 00:09:43.074 and we do unnatural things with our body and voice. 161 00:09:43.202 --> 00:09:46.646 So I would say that those words are important. They 162 00:09:46.668 --> 00:09:50.506 are essential. The arc of our talk, the 163 00:09:50.528 --> 00:09:54.154 use of stories and data effectively is very important. 164 00:09:54.352 --> 00:09:57.834 But our body language and our tone of voice, how we 165 00:09:57.872 --> 00:10:01.722 modulate our voice is key in terms of that engagement 166 00:10:01.786 --> 00:10:05.294 and that dance. It's the rhythm, it's the 167 00:10:05.332 --> 00:10:08.926 texture, it's everything else above and 168 00:10:08.948 --> 00:10:12.538 beyond the words themselves. Yeah, it's how you make people feel, isn't 169 00:10:12.554 --> 00:10:16.346 it? We always say this adage, people remember the facts and figures, 170 00:10:16.378 --> 00:10:19.874 but they always remember how you made them feel. And it is. It's about 171 00:10:20.072 --> 00:10:23.634 generating that connection, that engagement, that 172 00:10:23.672 --> 00:10:27.406 emotion, all those kind of things is a well known 173 00:10:27.438 --> 00:10:31.158 phrase. Facts don't change people. I can tell you all 174 00:10:31.164 --> 00:10:34.246 this data, I can tell you not to smoke, I can tell you not to 175 00:10:34.268 --> 00:10:37.606 drink, I can tell you not to drive too fast, and you'll just dismiss that 176 00:10:37.628 --> 00:10:41.186 and go, yeah, but I can rationalise that I'm safe, 177 00:10:41.378 --> 00:10:45.130 it'll be okay for me. But until you get the feeling of those figures and 178 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:48.938 the impact it can have on you, you'll never take action. And that's, I 179 00:10:48.944 --> 00:10:52.430 think, what academics and people are trying to communicate, big 180 00:10:52.500 --> 00:10:56.206 ticket things like the government and all this, they've got to find 181 00:10:56.228 --> 00:10:59.802 that a feeling, haven't they? Yes. To quote Simon Sinek, 182 00:10:59.866 --> 00:11:03.050 emotion trumps reason, and that happens every 183 00:11:03.140 --> 00:11:06.594 time. And in terms of the work that I 184 00:11:06.632 --> 00:11:10.446 do, a lot of my clients will be very cerebral. 185 00:11:10.558 --> 00:11:14.386 And when we're very cerebral, our voice is in the 186 00:11:14.408 --> 00:11:17.762 upper resonators. And if we're not vocally 187 00:11:17.826 --> 00:11:21.606 connected with our gut and our breath isn't connected with 188 00:11:21.628 --> 00:11:25.094 our gut. We're not going to connect with the gut of our 189 00:11:25.132 --> 00:11:28.280 audience, which sounds a bit hideous, but basically 190 00:11:29.130 --> 00:11:32.634 the gut is the emotional centre of the body. So we 191 00:11:32.672 --> 00:11:36.506 have millions of neurons in our brain, but we have hundreds of thousands of 192 00:11:36.528 --> 00:11:40.130 neurons in our gut. And getting the breath 193 00:11:40.230 --> 00:11:43.694 so that we're emotionally connected and our words are 194 00:11:43.732 --> 00:11:47.294 emotionally connected means that we can really engage our 195 00:11:47.332 --> 00:11:50.990 audience. And that below the waterline work 196 00:11:51.140 --> 00:11:54.786 is very much foundational in terms of what I do 197 00:11:54.808 --> 00:11:58.658 with every client. So we can all do the. Well, 198 00:11:58.744 --> 00:12:02.434 we can read about and do work on presentation and 199 00:12:02.472 --> 00:12:05.750 hair and makeup and all the outward. 200 00:12:06.250 --> 00:12:09.986 Not trivia, but it's external, it's above the waterline. 201 00:12:10.098 --> 00:12:13.778 But the real work happens below the waterline. The foundation 202 00:12:13.874 --> 00:12:17.266 work, the posture, the breathing, the vocal 203 00:12:17.298 --> 00:12:21.046 control, breath control and being truly engaged 204 00:12:21.078 --> 00:12:24.826 with yourself. I like to use an analogy of a cello or 205 00:12:24.848 --> 00:12:28.614 a double bass. If we were to say that playing a cello 206 00:12:28.662 --> 00:12:32.494 is about the strings and the bow, that's only half the 207 00:12:32.532 --> 00:12:36.302 story. The real story is the craftsman who 208 00:12:36.356 --> 00:12:39.294 hollowed out that wood, who created an 209 00:12:39.332 --> 00:12:43.002 instrument that resonates. And when the bow 210 00:12:43.066 --> 00:12:46.702 strikes the strings, that whole instrument resonates 211 00:12:46.766 --> 00:12:50.434 and beautiful sound fills the space and our body has 212 00:12:50.472 --> 00:12:54.194 that capacity. I just related to the story. You're saying 213 00:12:54.232 --> 00:12:57.990 there. I went to see the film the colour purple yesterday, 214 00:12:58.330 --> 00:13:02.054 the modern one, again, Steven Spielberg was involved with 215 00:13:02.092 --> 00:13:05.766 it. And I could spend all day talking to you 216 00:13:05.788 --> 00:13:09.446 about racism. I could spend all day talking to you about patriarchy and 217 00:13:09.468 --> 00:13:13.094 misogynistic behaviour and how black women are doubly 218 00:13:13.142 --> 00:13:16.870 oppressed through racism and through oppression, through misogyny. 219 00:13:16.950 --> 00:13:20.134 I could tell you that all day and it would not resonate. You go, yeah, 220 00:13:20.192 --> 00:13:23.578 whatever this film, it took me on this journey. 221 00:13:23.754 --> 00:13:26.762 I went through anger, I went through pains, 222 00:13:26.826 --> 00:13:30.480 compassion, happiness, joy, hope, 223 00:13:30.850 --> 00:13:34.606 disillusionment. Hopes and dreams were dashed and 224 00:13:34.628 --> 00:13:38.002 then rebuilt. I was taken through all these emotions, through story, through 225 00:13:38.136 --> 00:13:41.826 music, through engagement. And at the end of it, I came out and go, I 226 00:13:41.848 --> 00:13:45.086 now understand racism. I now understand into the intersection 227 00:13:45.278 --> 00:13:49.106 of misogyny against black women in a way 228 00:13:49.128 --> 00:13:52.486 that I had never been able to describe it before. And I will now hold 229 00:13:52.508 --> 00:13:54.966 that with me for the rest of my life, because I've really engaged with it. 230 00:13:54.988 --> 00:13:58.646 So the power of that story and that journey it took me 231 00:13:58.668 --> 00:14:02.518 on transcended two basic facts. That's 232 00:14:02.534 --> 00:14:06.358 all it was. And it explained that to me in a nutshell, 233 00:14:06.534 --> 00:14:09.946 in a way, that I was crying at the end. I was absolutely crying my 234 00:14:09.968 --> 00:14:13.798 eyes out. It was so engaging. So you're right, it is around how do we 235 00:14:13.824 --> 00:14:17.646 communicate a simple or one thing or two things that you 236 00:14:17.668 --> 00:14:21.486 need to get across in a way that people can resonate with that and take 237 00:14:21.508 --> 00:14:25.266 it away and take action. Yes. And I had a 238 00:14:25.288 --> 00:14:28.882 very interesting conversation around story with 239 00:14:28.936 --> 00:14:32.514 someone in the last year who looked at me and 240 00:14:32.552 --> 00:14:35.910 said, you like to tell a story, don't you? And 241 00:14:35.980 --> 00:14:39.650 sadly it was a criticism, not a compliment. 242 00:14:39.810 --> 00:14:43.654 And I thought about it and a month later we 243 00:14:43.692 --> 00:14:47.142 had another conversation in which I'd been at 244 00:14:47.276 --> 00:14:51.014 this meeting and I decided to just 245 00:14:51.052 --> 00:14:54.826 say very, very little and to see what 246 00:14:54.848 --> 00:14:58.598 that played out like and just observe. And afterwards 247 00:14:58.694 --> 00:15:02.542 the person said, oh, quite a patronising person said, 248 00:15:02.596 --> 00:15:06.206 you did so well. And I said, well, I 249 00:15:06.228 --> 00:15:10.046 actually had a think about what you said and the challenge for me 250 00:15:10.148 --> 00:15:13.994 and in terms of inclusion, Joe, I'm the only non 251 00:15:14.042 --> 00:15:17.746 english, non privileged christian person in the group, 252 00:15:17.848 --> 00:15:21.330 so I'm different on three levels. And 253 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:25.318 although I am relatively privileged and I said, you know, I had to 254 00:15:25.324 --> 00:15:29.078 think about what you said about stories and the problem is 255 00:15:29.244 --> 00:15:32.742 I'm irish and irish people love a good 256 00:15:32.796 --> 00:15:35.720 story. And she 257 00:15:36.170 --> 00:15:39.698 oh, ok. And I said, and the other problem is I'm 258 00:15:39.714 --> 00:15:42.922 a. You know, Jesus was the best 259 00:15:42.976 --> 00:15:46.538 storyteller. He just told the best stories ever. 260 00:15:46.704 --> 00:15:50.494 So I guess culturally and in terms 261 00:15:50.532 --> 00:15:54.206 of my faith, I'm just addicted to stories and 262 00:15:54.228 --> 00:15:57.518 I really like them. But it was just so 263 00:15:57.604 --> 00:16:00.720 interesting to think how 264 00:16:01.730 --> 00:16:05.294 othering people can be done in such a subtle 265 00:16:05.342 --> 00:16:08.802 way. But actually we need to embrace our 266 00:16:08.856 --> 00:16:12.350 story. We need to embrace who we are and realise 267 00:16:12.430 --> 00:16:16.280 that it's okay to be who we are and to live that. 268 00:16:18.570 --> 00:16:22.390 I used to run an it company and I was always using 269 00:16:22.460 --> 00:16:26.150 analogies, metaphors, stories, whatever it is, to illustrate points. And 270 00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:29.960 my ops director came up to me, said, I love when you say that. 271 00:16:30.330 --> 00:16:33.946 It's so colourful. I can picture that in my mind, 272 00:16:34.048 --> 00:16:37.754 the way you explain that with this metaphor, this story, I never 273 00:16:37.792 --> 00:16:41.454 realised I did it. But the more I think about it is because I think 274 00:16:41.492 --> 00:16:45.002 very visually, I think in pictures, I think in not just pictures, 275 00:16:45.146 --> 00:16:48.974 full action movie in my head, I can play 276 00:16:49.012 --> 00:16:52.638 out an entire day ahead of me, imagining the entire 277 00:16:52.724 --> 00:16:56.366 day and putting everything in boxes and from the right from packing my handbag to 278 00:16:56.388 --> 00:16:59.586 putting my coat on so I can go through this checklist and I can do 279 00:16:59.608 --> 00:17:03.394 all this through a story in my head. People talk about 280 00:17:03.432 --> 00:17:06.962 memory, these people who have huge memories, they invent a story 281 00:17:07.016 --> 00:17:10.758 around to remember things. I create a story in advance of what I'm 282 00:17:10.764 --> 00:17:14.390 going to be doing and I act out that story for the day and 283 00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:17.320 amend it as I go. So when I'm thinking about 284 00:17:18.110 --> 00:17:21.862 recalling information, I've always associated 285 00:17:21.926 --> 00:17:25.466 with a story. A feeling, a metaphor. Something's in 286 00:17:25.488 --> 00:17:29.114 there. So when that feeling pops into my head, I've got 287 00:17:29.152 --> 00:17:32.574 access to that story. And it comes straight out as my way of 288 00:17:32.612 --> 00:17:36.158 translating my brain storage out to the 289 00:17:36.164 --> 00:17:39.806 world through this story that I've told. I may not remember the 290 00:17:39.828 --> 00:17:43.486 exact words, but I remember the story around it. And then the 291 00:17:43.508 --> 00:17:47.074 words pop out. So I think, for me, 292 00:17:47.272 --> 00:17:50.814 it's something I never realised I did until now. As a professional 293 00:17:50.862 --> 00:17:54.562 speaker, I'm on stage and someone asks me a question or something 294 00:17:54.616 --> 00:17:58.454 have happened, or I'll suddenly say something and then ping. A story 295 00:17:58.492 --> 00:18:02.118 pops into my head. And suddenly the story gets woven into what I'm saying out 296 00:18:02.124 --> 00:18:05.750 of nowhere. And people always 297 00:18:05.820 --> 00:18:09.658 say, wow, I loved how you wove stories into that all the way through, 298 00:18:09.744 --> 00:18:13.402 because it makes it so much more interesting, doesn't it? A story is a very 299 00:18:13.536 --> 00:18:17.114 economical way of communicating. I mean, 300 00:18:17.152 --> 00:18:20.554 poetry is the ultimate economy, but it can be 301 00:18:20.592 --> 00:18:24.158 obscure and it can take time to unpack. So a story is a beautiful 302 00:18:24.244 --> 00:18:27.758 in between way of economising. If you think about 303 00:18:27.844 --> 00:18:31.374 you going to see the colour purple in 2 hours, you 304 00:18:31.412 --> 00:18:35.186 understood a lifetime and generations of 305 00:18:35.288 --> 00:18:39.026 problem in one evening. So it 306 00:18:39.048 --> 00:18:42.738 is incredibly powerful. And don't get me wrong, I do get people who love 307 00:18:42.824 --> 00:18:46.454 that storytelling side of me. But it was interesting to 308 00:18:46.492 --> 00:18:50.262 watch it in the exception rather than the rule, where somebody 309 00:18:50.396 --> 00:18:52.920 didn't really appreciate that. 310 00:18:54.170 --> 00:18:57.830 I get it completely. I used to run it companies. 311 00:18:57.900 --> 00:19:01.658 I've been in it, well, probably five, six of 312 00:19:01.664 --> 00:19:05.306 my life, if you like. My adult life, that's my career. So 313 00:19:05.328 --> 00:19:08.922 I've got very used to being very black and white, very on 314 00:19:08.976 --> 00:19:12.478 off, very binary about things. Work doesn't work. I was an 315 00:19:12.484 --> 00:19:15.934 electronics engineer. It either worked or it didn't work. So 316 00:19:16.132 --> 00:19:19.642 you get used to speaking to people in that sort of language. 317 00:19:19.786 --> 00:19:23.086 And then when someone can't see the fault in a 318 00:19:23.108 --> 00:19:26.814 circuit, because they haven't be able to divide the circuit in two 319 00:19:26.852 --> 00:19:30.542 and work out whether the fault is left or right, of where you've divided 320 00:19:30.606 --> 00:19:33.218 it, and then you do left and right again, left and right again, till you 321 00:19:33.224 --> 00:19:36.882 get down to a few millimetres wide. And it has to be in that line. 322 00:19:36.936 --> 00:19:40.694 So I think very clearly about half splitting and narrowing things 323 00:19:40.732 --> 00:19:44.518 down. But that doesn't work for people who don't have that logic. So you have 324 00:19:44.524 --> 00:19:48.258 to be able to step back and tell the story around it. Okay, we haven't 325 00:19:48.274 --> 00:19:52.006 got a picture, but we got sound. I can hear you, but I 326 00:19:52.028 --> 00:19:55.798 can't see you. That must mean there's something wrong with the vision. Okay, so what's 327 00:19:55.814 --> 00:19:58.586 wrong with the vision? So we can ignore everything to do with sound. We just 328 00:19:58.608 --> 00:20:02.286 look at the vision. So you have to just describe it differently and 329 00:20:02.388 --> 00:20:06.174 tell that story. It's a real challenge to say you work 330 00:20:06.212 --> 00:20:10.046 with people who are leaders and experts in 331 00:20:10.068 --> 00:20:13.534 their field, but not necessarily develop their 332 00:20:13.572 --> 00:20:16.900 communication style and skills and voice, if you like. Yes, 333 00:20:17.430 --> 00:20:21.134 and they are. I'm so fortunate that I've worked with fabulous 334 00:20:21.182 --> 00:20:24.894 people over 23, going on 24 years and 335 00:20:24.952 --> 00:20:28.726 such a wide variety of disciplines, and even 336 00:20:28.828 --> 00:20:32.646 getting to help people with wedding speeches. Joe, which is a 337 00:20:32.668 --> 00:20:36.200 lot of. Did. My 338 00:20:36.730 --> 00:20:40.486 daughter got married two years ago and I had to write her speech and I 339 00:20:40.508 --> 00:20:44.026 wasn't too daunted as a professional speaker, but I was kind of more 340 00:20:44.048 --> 00:20:47.274 daunted the fact that everyone knew I was a professional speaker. So I had to 341 00:20:47.392 --> 00:20:51.190 be doubly good and humorous, entertaining, not too embarrassing, 342 00:20:51.270 --> 00:20:54.346 taking it to the edge, not over the edge. There's a whole lot of dynamics 343 00:20:54.378 --> 00:20:58.126 in there, isn't that? You got to play with. There's a double whammy, because one 344 00:20:58.148 --> 00:21:01.978 of the toughest audiences is the audience that has known 345 00:21:01.994 --> 00:21:05.566 you all your life or who knows you personally. So you had the double 346 00:21:05.598 --> 00:21:09.282 whammy because you had that, plus the fact that people 347 00:21:09.336 --> 00:21:13.186 had very high expectations. And I think that is one of the problems 348 00:21:13.368 --> 00:21:17.062 with public speaking, which I've touched on already, is 349 00:21:17.116 --> 00:21:20.774 that people think, if I can talk, or even if you're very 350 00:21:20.812 --> 00:21:24.278 talkative, you must be able to speak, but 351 00:21:24.444 --> 00:21:28.074 there's quite a difference. And, in fact, in some 352 00:21:28.112 --> 00:21:31.734 ways, introverts make better actors because they're 353 00:21:31.782 --> 00:21:35.174 better at inhabiting a character, because they're 354 00:21:35.222 --> 00:21:38.778 used to seeming less in public, 355 00:21:38.864 --> 00:21:42.298 because there's a lot that's going on beneath the surface, 356 00:21:42.474 --> 00:21:46.046 whereas an extrovert has to, and I speak as an 357 00:21:46.068 --> 00:21:49.694 extreme extrovert, has to shelve a lot of themselves and 358 00:21:49.732 --> 00:21:53.566 a lot of what people see first before they become 359 00:21:53.668 --> 00:21:57.378 someone else. Yeah, I've noticed that on chat shows. I'm a big fan of the 360 00:21:57.384 --> 00:22:01.154 Graham Norton Friday night show on the BBC in the UK, and 361 00:22:01.272 --> 00:22:04.978 you see famous actors. Tom Cruise, I think, is a 362 00:22:04.984 --> 00:22:08.806 great example that I always think about where you put him on a 363 00:22:08.828 --> 00:22:12.614 sofa and you start to have a conversation with him and he doesn't seem to 364 00:22:12.732 --> 00:22:16.422 have anything about him. You suddenly realise that everything 365 00:22:16.476 --> 00:22:19.810 you think or you know about Tom Cruise is actually a 366 00:22:19.820 --> 00:22:23.562 Persona of a character he plays. And when you see these people 367 00:22:23.696 --> 00:22:27.206 off script just being themselves, many people don't 368 00:22:27.238 --> 00:22:30.934 necessarily live up to that belief you have of them for the characters 369 00:22:30.982 --> 00:22:34.378 they play. I always think about some of the actors, 370 00:22:34.554 --> 00:22:38.286 and I'm the same. I'm a raging introvert, really. Even though 371 00:22:38.308 --> 00:22:41.966 people would say I disguise it well. I really want to 372 00:22:41.988 --> 00:22:45.380 hide after events. I want to get out there, do my stuff and run away. 373 00:22:45.910 --> 00:22:49.602 I don't seek the limelight in that way, but I can put myself 374 00:22:49.656 --> 00:22:53.202 into that zone and act in an extroverted way 375 00:22:53.336 --> 00:22:55.700 or an outgoing way or an engaging way. 376 00:22:57.190 --> 00:23:00.566 I think you say it's a myth that everybody who gets on stage is an 377 00:23:00.588 --> 00:23:04.086 extrovert. A lot of us, the cohort, professional speakers, I 378 00:23:04.108 --> 00:23:07.494 know there's many of us who sort of all hide in the corner after us 379 00:23:07.532 --> 00:23:11.320 going, thank God that's over. Can we go home now? 380 00:23:12.010 --> 00:23:15.354 It's a real challenge, isn't it, to put yourself out there, give a part of 381 00:23:15.392 --> 00:23:18.426 you. That's what you do. I will say I'm ripping a part of me out 382 00:23:18.448 --> 00:23:22.206 of my chest and giving it to the audience. And if I don't come off 383 00:23:22.228 --> 00:23:25.840 stage absolutely exhausted and given everything, 384 00:23:26.210 --> 00:23:29.994 I can't hold something back from the audience because that's selfish. 385 00:23:30.042 --> 00:23:33.514 I got to give everything I've got. It really drains you after a performance. 386 00:23:33.562 --> 00:23:37.314 So huge respect to actors or people who do 387 00:23:37.352 --> 00:23:41.186 stage shows day in, day out, doing two performances a day. And that must 388 00:23:41.208 --> 00:23:44.994 be really exhausting to give that part of you all the time. Yes, it 389 00:23:45.032 --> 00:23:48.802 is. And I think I also feel more exhausted 390 00:23:48.866 --> 00:23:52.514 afterwards. I'm always pumped up and excited beforehand, 391 00:23:52.562 --> 00:23:56.390 and afterwards I feel quite drained. One of the biggest challenges I have 392 00:23:56.460 --> 00:24:00.170 is that my superpower, to use the word 393 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.434 you used at the start, is enabling and 394 00:24:03.472 --> 00:24:07.018 empowering other people to shine. So 395 00:24:07.184 --> 00:24:10.982 my preference is to be a director in a person's 396 00:24:11.046 --> 00:24:14.622 life rather than to be the actor myself. So 397 00:24:14.676 --> 00:24:18.062 getting up on a stage and doing a keynote for me 398 00:24:18.196 --> 00:24:21.950 is a challenge because I'm talking about the thing 399 00:24:22.020 --> 00:24:25.330 that I want to help other people to do, but being that person 400 00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:29.150 myself. So it's quite a contradiction, 401 00:24:29.230 --> 00:24:33.026