Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to inclusion bites, your sanctuary
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Joanne Lockwood: to ignite the spark of inclusion with inclusion
Joanne Lockwood: bites.
Joanne Lockwood: And today is episode 108 with the
Joanne Lockwood: title from resilience to inspiration. And I have the
Joanne Lockwood: absolute honour and privilege to welcome Paris Bartholomew. Paris
Joanne Lockwood: is a speaker, writer, lecturer and trainer. And when I
Joanne Lockwood: asked Paris to describe her superpower, she said empathy,
Joanne Lockwood: love, compassion and resilience.
Joanne Lockwood: Hello, Paris, welcome to the show. Hello, Joanne. Thank
Paris Bartholomew: you so much for having me on the show, really,
Paris Bartholomew: it's such a pleasure to be here. It's an honour for me.
Joanne Lockwood: I've read some of the background of the show notes and I'm
Joanne Lockwood: so looking forward to this conversation. So, yeah, welcome, Paris,
Joanne Lockwood: from resilience to inspiration. Tell me more about
Joanne Lockwood: yourself. Well, I suppose it's worth
Paris Bartholomew: mentioning that I am a lived, experienced
Paris Bartholomew: speaker. So what that means is that I spent the
Paris Bartholomew: majority of my childhood within the british care system. I
Paris Bartholomew: went into care at the age of six and after
Paris Bartholomew: multiple placements, we're talking twelve
Paris Bartholomew: placements over a 1314 year
Paris Bartholomew: period. I left local authority care at the age of 18 with my
Paris Bartholomew: own flat, my own independence, my life ahead of
Paris Bartholomew: me, but maybe not in a very solid place,
Paris Bartholomew: maybe not in a very comfortable, loving place.
Paris Bartholomew: And I suppose for me it was about building identity,
Paris Bartholomew: building resilience, learning how to
Paris Bartholomew: interact with people and building trust with other
Paris Bartholomew: humans. Things that I think a lot of people develop from a very young
Paris Bartholomew: age. But just due to the many moves that I
Paris Bartholomew: had during my childhood, it just made for a
Paris Bartholomew: very unstable, traumatic time growing
Paris Bartholomew: up. I'm just doing the maths here. So, six
Joanne Lockwood: to 1812 placements, you're effectively moving
Joanne Lockwood: every year. Yeah, there were some placements that
Paris Bartholomew: were three to six months long and there were others that were just
Paris Bartholomew: over a year. My longest placement was just under two
Paris Bartholomew: years and that was a large group home in
Paris Bartholomew: onestead in east London. But the majority of my time, as
Paris Bartholomew: you say, was very much, very short periods of time
Paris Bartholomew: in foster families, group homes, independent living
Paris Bartholomew: projects, you name it. I've stayed in hotels longer than some of
Joanne Lockwood: those placements. It's bad enough moving
Joanne Lockwood: home where you have to pack and unpack and become familiar
Joanne Lockwood: with not only where you're living, but the surroundings, the people around
Joanne Lockwood: you. It really is destabilising, isn't it, that kind of
Joanne Lockwood: nomadic lifestyle? Absolutely.
Paris Bartholomew: Very unstable. And I suppose when you're thinking about
Paris Bartholomew: your childhood years and the things that you need to
Paris Bartholomew: navigate naturally, like learning how to trust, learning
Paris Bartholomew: how to build bonds and learning how to give and
Paris Bartholomew: receive love, these are just things that I unfortunately was never able
Paris Bartholomew: to develop over the years as a child. So it was about
Paris Bartholomew: navigating some of that as an adult. Can I ask how you
Joanne Lockwood: entered the care system in the first place at the age of six? How did
Joanne Lockwood: that come about? Absolutely. Unfortunately, my birth
Paris Bartholomew: mum was convicted of several accounts of
Paris Bartholomew: abuse so severe that it did end up in the local
Paris Bartholomew: press. I was hospitalised for a couple of weeks
Paris Bartholomew: for assessments, tests and then released
Paris Bartholomew: into an assessment centre, which,
Paris Bartholomew: without revealing my age, which
Paris Bartholomew: back in the 70s, was a very,
Paris Bartholomew: very different system to what we're looking at now. So an assessment
Paris Bartholomew: centre back then was full of children who
Paris Bartholomew: had varying levels of behavioural and emotional
Paris Bartholomew: problems? Yeah, it was a
Paris Bartholomew: very traumatic time. It was a very uncertain time. But one
Paris Bartholomew: thing I would say is that when you're a child, you know no different.
Paris Bartholomew: You only know your reality. So as traumatic as it was,
Paris Bartholomew: I just got on with it because it was all I knew. So the person
Joanne Lockwood: who was there to protect you, there to nurture you, there to
Joanne Lockwood: be an example to you, was the person causing you the pain
Joanne Lockwood: and the distress. So when you were moving into the care system,
Joanne Lockwood: you didn't come from a position of learnt love, if you
Joanne Lockwood: like, learnt. You must have been very wary
Joanne Lockwood: about people and contact authority figures.
Joanne Lockwood: That's been really difficult for you as a young child. It was difficult.
Paris Bartholomew: And I remember at the age of six, when I entered care, I
Paris Bartholomew: remember being quite distrustful
Paris Bartholomew: generally and wary, but at the same
Paris Bartholomew: time loving my mum, regardless of the fact that she did all these
Paris Bartholomew: horrible things. I knew when she went into prison that she had
Paris Bartholomew: done something wrong. And I think the difference between
Paris Bartholomew: myself and I do believe that this is some of where the
Paris Bartholomew: resilience came in, is that other adults that I have met
Paris Bartholomew: as part of my work, that were in the care system often blamed
Paris Bartholomew: themselves for going into care. I didn't do that. I
Paris Bartholomew: knew because of the conviction that it was very much something
Paris Bartholomew: that was done to me that was wrong, something that was punishable
Paris Bartholomew: and something that was extremely traumatic.
Paris Bartholomew: But what's interesting about trauma is that you don't fully
Paris Bartholomew: experience it until you learn what it is. And at
Paris Bartholomew: 6710, I didn't know what it was, and I think
Paris Bartholomew: it wasn't till I got to around 1112. When I'm socialising
Paris Bartholomew: with friends at school, when I'm going to friends homes for dinner,
Paris Bartholomew: that's when you'll begin to realise that your life is very different to
Paris Bartholomew: the average child in your school. So you must have been kind of considered a
Joanne Lockwood: bit of an outsider, maybe mixing with people who are,
Joanne Lockwood: in quotes, stable family homes. Was there
Joanne Lockwood: any distrust of you or did people
Joanne Lockwood: embrace you fully, if you like? Yeah, that's a good question, actually,
Paris Bartholomew: because I think that people saw my life as actually
Paris Bartholomew: quite advantageous in some ways. When you're a child,
Paris Bartholomew: all you're thinking about is, oh, mum won't let
Paris Bartholomew: me do this, or dad won't let me do that, or I want this and
Paris Bartholomew: I want that. And I think a lot of my friends looked at my
Paris Bartholomew: life and saw some of the things that we would probably define as
Paris Bartholomew: being quite know. I got pocket money every week, some
Paris Bartholomew: of my friends didn't, some of my friends didn't have money
Paris Bartholomew: to sort of buy things that they wanted to buy.
Paris Bartholomew: In one of the large group homes, we used to have
Paris Bartholomew: clothing allowance, and I don't know if you're old enough to remember a shop called
Paris Bartholomew: CNA, but that was my
Paris Bartholomew: regular allowance shop, and we'd go there with our
Paris Bartholomew: allowance and I could choose what I wanted. And
Paris Bartholomew: again, in some of the areas that I lived,
Paris Bartholomew: which were very working class, quite a lot of
Paris Bartholomew: poverty, quite a lot of socioeconomic
Paris Bartholomew: factors that made for very poverish
Paris Bartholomew: circumstances. I went to school with children that couldn't
Paris Bartholomew: afford new clothes. So as superficial as those things might
Paris Bartholomew: be, if we think about the hierarchy of what we
Paris Bartholomew: need as individuals, we need security, we need love, we need
Paris Bartholomew: protection. I didn't have all of those things, but I did have some of the
Paris Bartholomew: things that other children would look at, and so I was
Paris Bartholomew: accepted in most of the arenas that I was
Paris Bartholomew: in. Do you have siblings? Were you with anybody?
Paris Bartholomew: I do. I have two sisters, but unfortunately we weren't
Paris Bartholomew: placed together. I'm the oldest of three girls
Paris Bartholomew: and both of my siblings went into care at different
Paris Bartholomew: times. So my youngest sister who's eleven years
Paris Bartholomew: younger than me, was entering the system at the time when I was
Paris Bartholomew: leaving the system. So a lots of kind of
Paris Bartholomew: separateness, but I was lucky enough to always
Paris Bartholomew: know where they were and I was a confident child
Paris Bartholomew: regardless of what was going on around the age of sort of
Paris Bartholomew: 1213 14. I was an outgoing child, I was a
Paris Bartholomew: talkative child and I very much wanted to
Paris Bartholomew: represent myself and I would camp outside
Paris Bartholomew: social services office and say, I'm not moving until you tell me where my
Paris Bartholomew: sister is. That was very demanding
Paris Bartholomew: and not easy. It wasn't easy for some of the families
Paris Bartholomew: that I lived with. Didn't work out because I wasn't the sort of child
Paris Bartholomew: that was able to assimilate well into a family because I
Paris Bartholomew: just didn't have the things that I needed
Paris Bartholomew: to understand how to give and receive love. How did that
Joanne Lockwood: manifest? Was it frustration, anger, disruptive
Joanne Lockwood: behaviour, that kind of things? Was it? It was some of that.
Paris Bartholomew: Some of it was over compliance. So it was extremes.
Paris Bartholomew: I remember, for example, I lived in a white family
Paris Bartholomew: in the area near Margate, Seaside town. I was the
Paris Bartholomew: only black child in the school. I was the only
Paris Bartholomew: child in that family. And it was very
Paris Bartholomew: difficult because I knew nothing about my heritage. I
Paris Bartholomew: didn't understand the fact that I was black. Yes. I knew I was different. Yes.
Paris Bartholomew: Obviously, it was obvious to me that I was different in many ways, but because
Paris Bartholomew: my cultural needs were not being met, it was very difficult for me to then
Paris Bartholomew: look positively at what it meant to be a black child.
Paris Bartholomew: And that made me angry. And that anger did manifest
Paris Bartholomew: as bad behaviour, as aggressive behaviour, yeah. If
Joanne Lockwood: you were the only black child in a school and it was in a
Joanne Lockwood: foster family, they would have had very little experience
Joanne Lockwood: of racism. Or as you say, your cultural
Joanne Lockwood: needs, your nourishment as a
Joanne Lockwood: young black girl, if you like, and what you needed growing up, you needed role
Joanne Lockwood: models, you needed someone who could bounce off of and
Joanne Lockwood: respect and look up to. And you had none of that. We're living in a
Joanne Lockwood: white environment. Yeah, absolutely. You've hit the
Paris Bartholomew: nail on the head around the lack of role models because that was
Paris Bartholomew: something that I found a bit later on was very
Paris Bartholomew: helpful in the formation of my identity and
Paris Bartholomew: understanding culturally, racially, ethnically,
Paris Bartholomew: what I was about. I think what was really difficult
Paris Bartholomew: for those particular foster parents, as you've said, they didn't
Paris Bartholomew: understand racism. They didn't understand and it was difficult
Paris Bartholomew: for them because they weren't armed with what they needed to protect
Paris Bartholomew: me. The school did what they could, but again, when you're
Paris Bartholomew: in an environment where they've never had to put these things in place before,
Paris Bartholomew: and now you've come along, it's very much a case of, well, what do we
Paris Bartholomew: do here? How do we navigate this? Yeah. And I certainly didn't
Paris Bartholomew: have the answers at that age. It's
Joanne Lockwood: hard for me to create a link to your lived experience because it
Joanne Lockwood: is so detached from my reality. And I can
Joanne Lockwood: feel the way you're talking about describing it. It must have been
Joanne Lockwood: really, you were ten years old and some twelve years old or
Joanne Lockwood: younger. So did you exit the care
Joanne Lockwood: system at 18 with a good education,
Joanne Lockwood: with the tools for life, or you lacked
Joanne Lockwood: some of that? I was lucky enough to,
Paris Bartholomew: as I said earlier, have the confidence and
Paris Bartholomew: strength, maybe courage even, to be quite
Paris Bartholomew: demanding about what I wanted. And when I got to the age of 15, I
Paris Bartholomew: said to my social worker, I've had enough, I've had enough. We are
Paris Bartholomew: nine placements in. I am tired,
Paris Bartholomew: I am fed up, and I want something different for myself.
Paris Bartholomew: And the only option that I can see at this point is
Paris Bartholomew: independence and freedom. Can I have a flat? Can I just get on with my
Paris Bartholomew: life? And my social worker said, you're 15, of course you can't have a flat,
Paris Bartholomew: but what I can do is meet you halfway. She said, I really
Paris Bartholomew: want you to just give this foster system a chance one more
Paris Bartholomew: time. So at 15, I had my final foster
Paris Bartholomew: placement, which again, didn't really work out. It was with a
Paris Bartholomew: black family, it was a single parent family, a lovely
Paris Bartholomew: woman who I'm still in contact with, actually.
Paris Bartholomew: And it didn't work out because I was hell bent on
Paris Bartholomew: independence and freedom, just like most 15 year olds, actually,
Paris Bartholomew: I don't think I was very different in that respect. So I then moved
Paris Bartholomew: into a Bernardo's semi independent living project. It was just
Paris Bartholomew: before my 16th birthday and I was able to have my own room.
Paris Bartholomew: A member of staff, a residential social worker, would come in
Paris Bartholomew: on in the evenings at around 06:00 p.m. And they would be there till six
Paris Bartholomew: in the morning just in case anybody needed them. And there were
Paris Bartholomew: around, I think, eight or nine rooms. Everybody had their own
Paris Bartholomew: room and we had a small allowance every week and we had to pay rent.
Paris Bartholomew: And it was a taste of freedom for me. I was at college, I was
Paris Bartholomew: doing performing arts. I knew where I wanted to go in my
Paris Bartholomew: life. And this taste of freedom really gave me
Paris Bartholomew: a little bit of an insight into what I wanted
Paris Bartholomew: for myself. And I grabbed it with both hands, I paid
Paris Bartholomew: my rent on time. I went to college, I
Paris Bartholomew: finished my course and then I went into another placement
Paris Bartholomew: at the age of 17 before getting my flat at 18. And by the time
Paris Bartholomew: I got my flat, I felt a little lost, a little
Paris Bartholomew: confused. But I'd had two to three
Paris Bartholomew: years of so called adultness.
Paris Bartholomew: I'd had an opportunity to find my feet. So
Paris Bartholomew: by the time I got my flat at 18, I was ready. I was ready
Paris Bartholomew: for that independence. And I say I'm lucky because I know a lot of young
Paris Bartholomew: people are not ready at that age. Yeah, I think
Joanne Lockwood: we called this episode resilience.
Joanne Lockwood: And to inspiration, your lived experience over
Joanne Lockwood: those years from the age of six taught you that necessity
Joanne Lockwood: of resilience, having to cope with meeting different
Joanne Lockwood: families, different schools, a lack of stability
Joanne Lockwood: in your life. Yes, you rebelled. Yes, you were probably angry, yes, you were
Joanne Lockwood: frustrated, but it gave you those life skills, if you
Joanne Lockwood: like, to be able to stand in your own 2ft. And when you were ready,
Joanne Lockwood: you were ready. Yeah, I was ready. I
Paris Bartholomew: remember I had this lovely little brown philofax
Paris Bartholomew: that I bought from wh Smiths. I got it out of my pocket
Paris Bartholomew: money and I was probably not even 15 at
Paris Bartholomew: the time. And I had these lists that were all colour coded and
Paris Bartholomew: they were all about what I wanted for myself. It was like a
Paris Bartholomew: plan, it was almost like a life plan.
Paris Bartholomew: And it was about where I wanted to be. And as much as I was
Paris Bartholomew: angry, as much as I was hurt, as much
Paris Bartholomew: as I felt quite sorry for myself in some ways, I
Paris Bartholomew: also had hope. And I never lost
Paris Bartholomew: that little bit of hope that my life would get better as long as I
Paris Bartholomew: was in the driving seat, because I, for many years, felt
Paris Bartholomew: that there was very little control over where I went,
Paris Bartholomew: when I went and who I went with. That sense of control was
Paris Bartholomew: really important for me because it just meant that I could begin building
Paris Bartholomew: my identity, building all the things that I felt that was lacking.
Joanne Lockwood: Statistically, people who are careleavers tend not
Joanne Lockwood: to succeed in life, enter maybe the
Joanne Lockwood: prison system or homelessness or joblessness or.
Joanne Lockwood: How did you break that cycle of the contextual
Joanne Lockwood: expectation of who you are? Because you must have had
Joanne Lockwood: challenges where you were seeking employment or
Joanne Lockwood: whatever it may be, where you had that lived experience, people maybe
Joanne Lockwood: would have had some prejudice against you. A mistrust
Joanne Lockwood: maybe? Absolutely. And I learned from a very
Paris Bartholomew: early age that there were times to tell the truth and there were times where
Paris Bartholomew: you maybe needed to be creative with the truth. And I didn't
Paris Bartholomew: always say that I was care experience. Sometimes I didn't
Paris Bartholomew: need to. But sometimes I was able to use that to my
Paris Bartholomew: advantage. So when I applied to do my first degree
Paris Bartholomew: and there was an element of social work within
Paris Bartholomew: the degree, it was a combined degree of social work teaching.
Paris Bartholomew: I used my care experience because they said, well, you need to be 21
Paris Bartholomew: to come onto this course. And I was 19 going on
Paris Bartholomew: 20. And I said, okay, I'm not 21, but I can
Paris Bartholomew: explain to you how I have got more
Paris Bartholomew: experience than your average 21 year old. My life experience
Paris Bartholomew: up until this point is probably a bit
Paris Bartholomew: more than the average 21 year old. And I was very open about my care
Paris Bartholomew: experience at that interview for my degree. And
Paris Bartholomew: I got onto that course and I was the youngest person on the course and
Paris Bartholomew: qualified with a first degree and then went on to do a master's
Paris Bartholomew: in psychology, philosophy combined. And I enjoyed learning.
Paris Bartholomew: I enjoyed education. When I was a child,
Paris Bartholomew: books were my escape. Books were my way of
Paris Bartholomew: escaping the reality of my existence. I used books as a
Paris Bartholomew: way of forgetting the traumatic environment that I
Paris Bartholomew: was in and almost transporting myself into the characters in the
Paris Bartholomew: books. And for that reason, learning was fun because I enjoyed
Paris Bartholomew: reading and I enjoyed acquiring knowledge. And I was a curious child.
Joanne Lockwood: You mentioned at the beginning about your queerness.
Joanne Lockwood: We start to form our identity at the age of six or seven, don't we?
Joanne Lockwood: So, right, the age you were going through, the trauma with your mother,
Joanne Lockwood: you had started to kind of discover who you are, think about who you
Joanne Lockwood: are. And this would have been without ageing you. This
Joanne Lockwood: would have been the. It wasn't an easy time to be queer in
Joanne Lockwood: the, in the care system and without role models
Joanne Lockwood: and being with white families. As a black woman, how did you
Joanne Lockwood: find that queerness came out, or was
Joanne Lockwood: it suppressed until you were 18? I
Paris Bartholomew: did not see myself as queer until I was well into my twenty
Paris Bartholomew: s. I was so busy navigating the
Paris Bartholomew: real basic aspects of
Paris Bartholomew: being a child. Puberty, adolescence,
Paris Bartholomew: friends, socialising, all of that kind of. And then the
Paris Bartholomew: care experience of the moves, the many, many moves and the adaptation
Paris Bartholomew: that that meant. Some of the families I lived with were very religious, so I
Paris Bartholomew: was navigating this religious environment that
Paris Bartholomew: said, men and women get together and then they have
Paris Bartholomew: a child. And I never questioned any of that because
Paris Bartholomew: I was so busy questioning my sheer existence.
Paris Bartholomew: I didn't navigate sexuality. I dated boys,
Paris Bartholomew: I enjoyed the company of young
Paris Bartholomew: men and didn't question any of that until I was well
Paris Bartholomew: into my twenty s. And I remember there was a show called the Vanessa show,
Paris Bartholomew: and me and a couple of friends, we applied to get on
Paris Bartholomew: this show. And I'll never forget, the episode was all
Paris Bartholomew: about gay marriage. And this was in the 80s when, as you said,
Paris Bartholomew: queerness was so unacceptable. And Vanessa had this
Paris Bartholomew: show all about gay marriage. And I remember one of my friends
Paris Bartholomew: who was in the audience at the time stood up and said, it's Adam
Paris Bartholomew: and Eve, not Adam and Steve. And I just turned round and looked at them
Paris Bartholomew: and went, what did you just say? I
Paris Bartholomew: was absolutely horrified that I had a friend
Paris Bartholomew: that had that view and at no point
Paris Bartholomew: had we had any conversations about sexuality,
Paris Bartholomew: dating, relationship. It was just assumed in
Paris Bartholomew: my mind that people respected and loved each other and that it was
Paris Bartholomew: all about who you was and not about who you slept
Paris Bartholomew: with. And it shocked me to the core. And it probably
Paris Bartholomew: was around that time that I started exploring my
Paris Bartholomew: relationships with women. And I remember writing a short piece
Paris Bartholomew: entitled all the good things about being in care, all the good things
Paris Bartholomew: about not having a mum and dad that loved me
Paris Bartholomew: and kind of raised me. And one of those things on that list was the
Paris Bartholomew: fact that coming out was easy. I didn't need to
Paris Bartholomew: worry about how people were going to see me. I didn't
Paris Bartholomew: need to worry about a mum or a dad that loved me, that
Paris Bartholomew: expected me to be a certain way. There were no
Paris Bartholomew: expectations put on me. I was able to be who I wanted to be.
Joanne Lockwood: Do you still have contact with your sisters? Are you kind of close? And
Paris Bartholomew: very close. Like I said,
Paris Bartholomew: I was that naughty, mouthy, confident,
Paris Bartholomew: slightly passive aggressive individual that would camp outside social services
Paris Bartholomew: and say, look, I'm not moving. Where's my sister? We have. Have
Paris Bartholomew: such a close relationship and I'm so grateful that they are
Paris Bartholomew: a part of my life. I've got nieces, I've got nephews. I don't have
Paris Bartholomew: any of my own children, so I love being an auntie. I
Paris Bartholomew: love having my nephew over during the summer holidays and then at the end
Paris Bartholomew: saying off, you know, when my
Paris Bartholomew: nephew Thomas was a baby, it was just brilliant. He'd start crying, I'll just hand
Paris Bartholomew: him straight. Know. My relationship with
Paris Bartholomew: my sisters means the world to me and I honestly
Paris Bartholomew: don't know what I would do if I didn't have them in my life. Do
Joanne Lockwood: you forgive your mum? Absolutely. I had to for my own
Paris Bartholomew: mental health, for my own strength.
Paris Bartholomew: It took a long time. I was angry when she
Paris Bartholomew: came out of prison, the contact that we had was so
Paris Bartholomew: sporadic. She would just turn up out of the blue
Paris Bartholomew: sometimes and I often wouldn't know when she would be there and when
Paris Bartholomew: she wouldn't. And that upset me. I would visit
Paris Bartholomew: her and there would be times when she would just open the front door, say,
Paris Bartholomew: what do you want? And close the front door. I mean, it was very, very
Paris Bartholomew: difficult, but what I had to do, and this
Paris Bartholomew: is the run up to forgiving her, I had to accept that she wasn't going
Paris Bartholomew: to be the person I wanted her to be. And I honestly believe
Paris Bartholomew: that part of that resilience that I've got is
Paris Bartholomew: about accepting my life for what it was,
Paris Bartholomew: accepting the things that I could control and the things that I can't. And I
Paris Bartholomew: couldn't control my childhood and I can't control the past, but what I can
Paris Bartholomew: control is my responses to those things. And my
Paris Bartholomew: response to my mum was anger. I had it out with her,
Paris Bartholomew: I did. And she was unable to say
Paris Bartholomew: sorry. She was unable to accept what she did, regardless of her
Paris Bartholomew: prison sentence. And it took a while, but I had to say, well, you know
Paris Bartholomew: what? She won't. And that's going to have to be fine. It's going to have
Paris Bartholomew: to be just fine. So I did forgive her for myself, not for her.
Joanne Lockwood: So you've kind of taken the power back, if you like.
Paris Bartholomew: Definitely taken the power back, taken back the control
Paris Bartholomew: and really put myself in the driving seat of my life bit by bit.
Joanne Lockwood: So, talking about your life. So you, 18,
Joanne Lockwood: independent, in a flat, carving your own way in the world,
Joanne Lockwood: looking after your sisters from a distance and as much as you can, keeping in
Joanne Lockwood: touch, doing your degree, doing your masters, then
Joanne Lockwood: where, what did you go on to next? My younger sister
Paris Bartholomew: was having quite a difficult time, so I applied to be a foster carer.
Paris Bartholomew: At the age of 20, I was granted short term foster
Paris Bartholomew: carer status. My youngest sister came to live with me. She lived with
Paris Bartholomew: me for two years. I was able to get a two
Paris Bartholomew: bedroom flat so that I could accommodate her. And
Paris Bartholomew: the trauma that she experienced at the hands of my
Paris Bartholomew: mum had such a detrimental effect on her that I had
Paris Bartholomew: to make a decision as to whether or not I could
Paris Bartholomew: provide what she needed, emotionally,
Paris Bartholomew: physically, socially. I made the decision
Paris Bartholomew: that she would be better placed in a permanent family as long
Paris Bartholomew: as it was a family that she would be able to stay and
Paris Bartholomew: not have what I had moving around constantly. So
Paris Bartholomew: she left me after a year and a half and moved
Paris Bartholomew: into a permanent family. So I was a foster carer for a short while. I
Paris Bartholomew: moved to Birmingham, carried on studying, carried on working,
Paris Bartholomew: started doing some teaching, came back to London. I live in
Paris Bartholomew: Essex, on the London Essex border now and I was working
Paris Bartholomew: for a school for a while. I was a secondary school teacher before
Paris Bartholomew: moving into training and development, and I really embraced
Paris Bartholomew: the whole aspect of care as well as having this personal experience.
Paris Bartholomew: I knew that I had the skills to support and to care
Paris Bartholomew: for other people. So I did loads of work with different charities,
Paris Bartholomew: lots of voluntary work, and that gave me the experience I needed
Paris Bartholomew: to go on and become self employed as a
Paris Bartholomew: trainer, developing my own training skills and
Paris Bartholomew: providing training to professional teachers, youth
Paris Bartholomew: workers, psychologists. And so now I combine
Paris Bartholomew: teaching and training and speaking. So I noticed in
Joanne Lockwood: the show notes you mentioned that you did some work with Samaritans and crisis.
Joanne Lockwood: What sort of trauma were you dealing with day in, day out? Because it's
Joanne Lockwood: not all suicide ideation. There are other crisis
Joanne Lockwood: that people go through as well. Aren't there much
Paris Bartholomew: crisis in terms of things like, gosh, during the
Paris Bartholomew: Lockwood, when I was at Samaritans, a lot of the
Paris Bartholomew: volunteers were older people, retired
Paris Bartholomew: people. So you can imagine during the COVID
Paris Bartholomew: outbreak, a lot of them were off. So I was covering four to six
Paris Bartholomew: shifts a week at Samaritans during the Lockwood period.
Paris Bartholomew: I enjoyed it because it was an opportunity to come out of the house.
Paris Bartholomew: I had a letter from Samaritans that said, you're allowed out, you're
Paris Bartholomew: out, you're supporting. I was going to branch. I was on the
Paris Bartholomew: telephone, I was doing four hour shifts.
Paris Bartholomew: And these were people that were in domestic
Paris Bartholomew: violence, relationships, in lockdown, with partners that
Paris Bartholomew: were abusive. These were students that were in lockdown at
Paris Bartholomew: universities miles away from home. These were people who
Paris Bartholomew: were in prison, who were calling Samaritans for support because they weren't allowed
Paris Bartholomew: outside of their cells. It was such a traumatic time
Paris Bartholomew: for many, many people, and I'm just happy
Paris Bartholomew: that I was able to provide that little bit of
Paris Bartholomew: support. As you said, majority of the people that called us during that
Paris Bartholomew: time did not have suicide idealation. These were people that
Paris Bartholomew: were lonely, that were stressed, that were really
Paris Bartholomew: having a difficult time. How did you manage to stay
Joanne Lockwood: detached and objective? Because you're doing that many shifts
Joanne Lockwood: with the people that are calling in and you're involved with,
Joanne Lockwood: it must be really hard not to become evolved emotionally and
Joanne Lockwood: connected with them. I appreciate you don't know who they are, they don't know who
Joanne Lockwood: you are. You still must absorb some of that
Joanne Lockwood: pain. Yeah, I learned
Paris Bartholomew: some what's called somatic practises, things like Tai Chi,
Paris Bartholomew: things like going for lovely long walks and being very mindful when
Paris Bartholomew: I'm walking. I learned meditation.
Paris Bartholomew: These are things that have kept me healthy, kept me well. I'd
Paris Bartholomew: finish a shift and I'd literally go for a walk. I'd walk for
Paris Bartholomew: 45 minutes, I'd absorb the atmosphere.
Paris Bartholomew: And during lockdown, walking was lovely because the streets were just silent, there was
Paris Bartholomew: nobody around, there was hardly any cars on the road, the air quality
Paris Bartholomew: was better. It was just really nice to just go for lovely
Paris Bartholomew: long walks. And we had a lovely summer. In 2020, I'd go
Paris Bartholomew: jogging and I'd use that time to really just
Paris Bartholomew: detach, if for want of a better word, from some of the stuff that
Paris Bartholomew: I'd heard, and really look after myself. Self care and
Paris Bartholomew: self love is something else that I've learned to do over the
Paris Bartholomew: years. I've learned to really take time out for me.
Paris Bartholomew: And in 2007, I was diagnosed with PTSD
Paris Bartholomew: and I had some sessions of a therapy called
Paris Bartholomew: EMDR. I don't know if you've heard of it. Eye movement,
Paris Bartholomew: desensitisation, reprocessing. I found that very
Paris Bartholomew: helpful. It helped me with childhood trauma,
Paris Bartholomew: it helped me unpack and unpick some
Paris Bartholomew: of the stuff that I had lived with and held
Paris Bartholomew: onto, and also talking therapies. I say to
Paris Bartholomew: everybody, regardless of your childhood, regardless of your
Paris Bartholomew: background, everybody should spend time working on their
Paris Bartholomew: mind, developing their mind. And I found
Paris Bartholomew: therapy really helpful for that. Yeah, the world's moved on a lot
Joanne Lockwood: since you were six, and I was guessing I would have
Joanne Lockwood: been 13 or 14 when you were six, I guess, without saying my
Joanne Lockwood: age. The world's moved on a lot since
Joanne Lockwood: the. But it's still not
Joanne Lockwood: great for many people. I notice you're
Joanne Lockwood: working in a professional speaker, you're a trainer, and you
Joanne Lockwood: work in communities and support people. What are the challenges that you see in the
Joanne Lockwood: world at the moment? I guess from a London, UK queer.
Paris Bartholomew: Black woman perspective, I think some of the key
Paris Bartholomew: challenges at the moment are professionals being able
Paris Bartholomew: to have the right training, the right
Paris Bartholomew: support and the right ability almost
Paris Bartholomew: to be themselves and be
Paris Bartholomew: secure and protected within the workforce.
Paris Bartholomew: Around inclusion, around diversity.
Paris Bartholomew: Diversity and the inclusion are real buzzwords at the moment, but I
Paris Bartholomew: think that companies are still ticking boxes to
Paris Bartholomew: an extent, and I think that there is still a lot more work that
Paris Bartholomew: needs to be done about sort of how we actually
Paris Bartholomew: practically, really kind of take seriously the
Paris Bartholomew: idea that we need to be moving towards a
Paris Bartholomew: culture of inclusion. We need to
Paris Bartholomew: be thinking about trauma informed practise
Paris Bartholomew: that is inclusive, completely inclusive. And
Paris Bartholomew: people like myself, with lived experience, people like yourself
Paris Bartholomew: with lived experience of diversity. These are where
Paris Bartholomew: the people that companies should be calling on to come in and
Paris Bartholomew: support what they're trying to do. I think the key issues at the
Paris Bartholomew: moment are things around diversity, things around
Paris Bartholomew: understanding the talents of people who are
Paris Bartholomew: on the spectrum, for example, what support mechanisms should be in place for
Paris Bartholomew: those people. But recognising the amazing
Paris Bartholomew: talents that we all bring, and that's what
Paris Bartholomew: diversity is. Diversity is that acceptance that we're different,
Paris Bartholomew: but we're special and we've all got something that we bring and it's about being
Paris Bartholomew: able to really see the talents that we've got. I
Paris Bartholomew: think health and well being in general and mental health is just massive at the
Paris Bartholomew: moment with more and more people being diagnosed. But
Joanne Lockwood: I've noticed, if you like a backsliding
Joanne Lockwood: into old practises during lockdown, during
Joanne Lockwood: COVID everybody was throwing money at mental health, mental
Joanne Lockwood: wealth, these well being initiatives. But
Joanne Lockwood: there seems to be, I don't know if it's the financial crisis, if we're one
Joanne Lockwood: of those, but if you want to call it cost of living. Companies
Joanne Lockwood: are not investing anymore in these well being or EDI
Joanne Lockwood: programmes. We're seeing EDI teams being laid
Joanne Lockwood: off, training, budgets, awareness budgets, initiatives being cut
Joanne Lockwood: back. People have been forced back into the office, which
Joanne Lockwood: for many people who have hidden disabilities or
Joanne Lockwood: accessibility needs, they were able to thrive in their
Joanne Lockwood: remote home or local cafe, wherever they were
Joanne Lockwood: working. Now, all those things we learned, because I
Joanne Lockwood: remember we all cared, we've now learnt we can do this from home. And
Joanne Lockwood: it's almost like people are now forgetting again, saying, well, we have to go to
Joanne Lockwood: the office. To me, it's crazy that we're not being person
Joanne Lockwood: centric and looking at individuals best needs to
Joanne Lockwood: alive with the company. And you must see a lot of that, a lot of
Joanne Lockwood: that challenge from the work you do. Absolutely. I'm seeing
Paris Bartholomew: that daily. And as you say, it's
Paris Bartholomew: absurd, because we should have learned, surely we should have
Paris Bartholomew: learned from this. When people are stressed,
Paris Bartholomew: they take time off work. Time off work is costing the company a hell
Paris Bartholomew: of a lot more than allowing somebody to work from home. It makes
Paris Bartholomew: no sense that companies are not, for example, rolling out things like
Paris Bartholomew: mental health first aid, to have a mental health first aida within
Paris Bartholomew: your company that can spot the early signs of
Paris Bartholomew: vicarious trauma, burnout,
Paris Bartholomew: stress in terms of pressure before
Paris Bartholomew: it turns into depression and idolation.
Paris Bartholomew: And these are all things that are going to cost or
Paris Bartholomew: are costing the NHS and companies billions of
Paris Bartholomew: pounds. Do you think there's a pushback from,
Joanne Lockwood: just use the nebulous term, people with privilege
Joanne Lockwood: say it like that. However you want to describe those people, feeling
Joanne Lockwood: that we're bending of a backwards wokism, if
Joanne Lockwood: you like, or giving people the opportunities that they never
Joanne Lockwood: had. Hang on a minute. I've had to work hard. Surely they can get off
Joanne Lockwood: their backside and work hard and succeed anyway. Why do I need to
Joanne Lockwood: give my time and effort or money to help them? There's a lot of pushback,
Joanne Lockwood: isn't there? There is a lot of pushback. And I'm lucky
Paris Bartholomew: because as a black female and I present myself at companies
Paris Bartholomew: and we're talking about things like equality and we're talking about things like inclusion.
Paris Bartholomew: Sometimes there can be a sense that people sometimes want
Paris Bartholomew: to just say what they think you want to hear, but maybe
Paris Bartholomew: it's my psychology degree. I don't know if it's my background or just a natural
Paris Bartholomew: aptitude. I have the ability of allowing
Paris Bartholomew: or getting people to open up and be quite open and honest
Paris Bartholomew: and frank about their difficulties in this area,
Paris Bartholomew: because I go in with a very non judgmental approach, and I say
Paris Bartholomew: to companies, this is not about saying, you're doing this
Paris Bartholomew: wrong. This is not about pointing a finger and saying, white privilege this and white
Paris Bartholomew: privilege that. It's about acknowledging that, yes, people
Paris Bartholomew: are privileged, but they don't always ask for that privilege. In the same way that
Paris Bartholomew: I didn't ask to be black, female and queer.
Joanne Lockwood: Without asking. Didn't they? Without asking. Exactly. It's a gift
Paris Bartholomew: that I've acquired. And so in the same way that you've acquired
Paris Bartholomew: that gift, it's about looking at, well, what do we do with these gifts? And
Paris Bartholomew: people are open and honest, and they say,
Paris Bartholomew: we have very few people
Paris Bartholomew: from XYZ group in our company. It's not our
Paris Bartholomew: fault we've not recruited those people. And if they're not
Paris Bartholomew: able to do the job that we want them to do, then why would we
Paris Bartholomew: recruit them? Comments like that kind
Paris Bartholomew: of makes you sort of very aware of the fact that
Paris Bartholomew: there's so much more that can be done, but there is that
Paris Bartholomew: push. There is that push, and there is a sense
Paris Bartholomew: of, we've done enough. Why should we be doing more? We
Joanne Lockwood: live in this echo chamber, though, don't we? You and I and many others in
Joanne Lockwood: the same sort of field as us in this echo chamber, where we
Joanne Lockwood: talk about this stuff all the time. For us, it feels so obvious.
Joanne Lockwood: But if you're not in the HR
Joanne Lockwood: Edi Dni space, then a lot of these
Joanne Lockwood: conversations are alien, and people are so scared of getting it
Joanne Lockwood: wrong, saying the wrong thing they don't understand. They'd
Joanne Lockwood: rather flick the football on than watch a documentary on
Joanne Lockwood: making the world a better place. Sometimes, yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: How do we persuade people to show an interest
Joanne Lockwood: without our big stick? Because never work. It's how do
Joanne Lockwood: we create that attraction to finding out? I think you've
Paris Bartholomew: already answered that question in some ways, Joanne, because I think that,
Paris Bartholomew: as you've mentioned, one of the things that makes it difficult
Paris Bartholomew: for a lot of these individuals is fear. Fear of
Paris Bartholomew: getting it wrong, fear of saying it wrong. And I
Paris Bartholomew: think the more people like you and I go in and say, well, look, we're
Paris Bartholomew: not here to point a finger. We're not here to judge you getting it wrong.
Paris Bartholomew: We want you to make mistakes, because actually, that's how you learn. But let's look
Paris Bartholomew: at what we can do to support you moving this forward. And I think the
Paris Bartholomew: answer is collaborating with the people that know, the people that
Paris Bartholomew: have experienced it, like you and I, the people that have that lived experience
Paris Bartholomew: of inequality. We're the best people to go in and say,
Paris Bartholomew: well, actually, these are the things that you're doing, but there's a lot
Paris Bartholomew: more that can be done. There needs to be a culture of inclusion.
Paris Bartholomew: Those difficult conversations don't need to be had once
Paris Bartholomew: in three years, because you're looking at updating your policy and procedures.
Paris Bartholomew: Those are conversations that can be had every other team
Paris Bartholomew: meeting. Put it on the agenda and let's create a
Paris Bartholomew: space where all of your workers who are from those diverse
Paris Bartholomew: groups or not, can input and say, well, have you thought of this? Have you
Paris Bartholomew: thought of that? Open up discussions, give people an opportunity to share
Paris Bartholomew: their ideas, anonymously, even. But people need to break
Paris Bartholomew: down that fear barrier. And it is fear. It really is fear. I was
Joanne Lockwood: just thinking, as you're saying, that no child ever learnt to walk
Joanne Lockwood: without falling over. So you need to learn what falling over feels
Joanne Lockwood: like in order to know not to do it, or
Joanne Lockwood: especially maybe on concrete or something like that. So
Joanne Lockwood: you see many little children, they're running off and then they tumble and fall
Joanne Lockwood: over. Yeah. You have to learn that your legs only move so fast and you've
Joanne Lockwood: got balance and you've got rhythm and all these things.
Joanne Lockwood: One day, if you just learned to walk without those, you'd never know the fear
Joanne Lockwood: of failure or the fear of getting it wrong. So you
Joanne Lockwood: have to learn. We learn by making mistakes and we learn how to
Joanne Lockwood: correct. I think we need to create these
Joanne Lockwood: safe spaces, don't we, where people can,
Joanne Lockwood: with respect, obviously make mistakes,
Joanne Lockwood: learn, be able to talk to each other to understand lived
Joanne Lockwood: experience and why it matters. And if you
Joanne Lockwood: start hearing stories, and I'm a great believer in the
Joanne Lockwood: power of stories because as a species
Joanne Lockwood: growing up in caves, growing up in our prehistory, if
Joanne Lockwood: you like, the only way we had to remember was stories, which
Joanne Lockwood: we handed down painted pictures on cave walls or whatever it was,
Joanne Lockwood: or etched in tablets to form rudimentary language. But the stories
Joanne Lockwood: are our historical communication. And I
Joanne Lockwood: visited Iceland some 10, 15, 20 years ago, and
Joanne Lockwood: they love their sagas, and it's all about the
Joanne Lockwood: ancient icelandic people telling these sagas.
Joanne Lockwood: And there are very well known and remembered
Joanne Lockwood: storytellers or saga talents that are books
Joanne Lockwood: and publishing. So, yeah, I'm a great believer that we need
Joanne Lockwood: to have these conversations, we need to talk to each other, we need to share
Joanne Lockwood: this and hand it down to generations so that each
Joanne Lockwood: generation doesn't start from scratch. They build on the
Joanne Lockwood: lessons of the past. Absolutely. And
Paris Bartholomew: storytelling is amazing because it allows people to
Paris Bartholomew: share parts of themselves. It allows people
Paris Bartholomew: to really connect and engage. And it is all about connections
Paris Bartholomew: because we don't do these things in isolation. And as you've said, storytelling
Paris Bartholomew: is nothing new about it. This is something that has happened for
Paris Bartholomew: centuries. But I think that a sense of
Paris Bartholomew: community is somewhat lost, and storytelling is something
Paris Bartholomew: that brings communities together. On that note, you're writing a book.
Joanne Lockwood: Does I see that you're writing a book where you've written a book and you're
Joanne Lockwood: waiting to have it published. Correct. What's the book about?
Joanne Lockwood: What inspired you? My life story inspired me to write
Paris Bartholomew: the book. The title of this podcast is
Paris Bartholomew: pretty much the theme of the book. It's not the title of the book, but
Paris Bartholomew: it certainly is the theme. And you mentioned it
Paris Bartholomew: earlier, lots and lots of care. Experienced people are in
Paris Bartholomew: prison. They are homeless. They are using drugs and
Paris Bartholomew: alcohol. They are trying
Paris Bartholomew: to recover and live with mental health
Paris Bartholomew: issues and mental illness. And I want people to
Paris Bartholomew: understand that you can have adverse childhood
Paris Bartholomew: experiences, traumatic childhoods, and still
Paris Bartholomew: lead productive, successful, happy lives.
Paris Bartholomew: Your childhood trauma hasn't got to be the story
Paris Bartholomew: that you tell yourself day in, day out as an adult. It can
Paris Bartholomew: be the backdrop, and it can be the springboard which
Paris Bartholomew: catapults you into amazing things. That's kind of what I'm trying to do
Paris Bartholomew: with the book. It is about me, it is about my life. It is about
Paris Bartholomew: the many moves, but it's also about the inspiration
Paris Bartholomew: that I try to share as a person
Paris Bartholomew: that has lived that experience but also come through the other end. And I
Paris Bartholomew: like to think come through the other end in a fairly successful way.
Paris Bartholomew: I'm looking for publishers. I finished writing it in October
Paris Bartholomew: last year and so I've just been trying to get it out there
Paris Bartholomew: and find a publisher that's going to take me on. Not
Joanne Lockwood: thought about self publishing or do you want. I have thought,
Paris Bartholomew: I have thought about it but I would love to go for a publisher because
Paris Bartholomew: it's my first major piece of publishing. I'd like
Paris Bartholomew: a bit of a handhold. I'd like somebody to come along and say do you
Paris Bartholomew: know what, this needs changing, that might need a little bit of padding
Paris Bartholomew: out. I'm quite happy to do that. I'm not precious about it because it's a
Paris Bartholomew: learning process. Well I wish you luck with getting it
Joanne Lockwood: published because I really want to read it, I really want to hear your life
Joanne Lockwood: and I think it'd be even more amazing to get the audio
Joanne Lockwood: version and you narrating it so I can actually hear your
Joanne Lockwood: words telling your story. That would be so
Joanne Lockwood: powerful to hear those words. Great idea. Love an
Paris Bartholomew: audiobook. Yeah, fantastic. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: So what do you do right now? So you say you're speaking, you're
Joanne Lockwood: training, so you're working with organisations and some
Joanne Lockwood: charity work still? I'm doing some charity work still. So you mentioned
Paris Bartholomew: crisis. That's
Paris Bartholomew: my personal kind of passion. I've been with crisis
Paris Bartholomew: for 19 years and I only do the
Paris Bartholomew: Christmas so I do the Christmas and new year. We run a day
Paris Bartholomew: centre in east London and we have the hotels in the Docklands
Paris Bartholomew: area of east London that I am a part of. But at the moment
Paris Bartholomew: a lot of my time is around speaking engagements and
Paris Bartholomew: training. I'm an associate trainer for fostering
Paris Bartholomew: network so I do quite a lot of consultancy work for them.
Paris Bartholomew: I do some speaking work with Bernardo's NSPCC
Paris Bartholomew: and some other corporates and so I'm looking at really developing that
Paris Bartholomew: a bit more and sort of continuing
Paris Bartholomew: supporting through Samaritans. I'm only doing one
Paris Bartholomew: samaritan shift a fortnight these days but it's enough and I'm at
Paris Bartholomew: college doing british sign language so that's exciting.
Paris Bartholomew: I love learning so I've always wanted
Paris Bartholomew: to be fluent in sign language so I'm on my level two at the moment
Paris Bartholomew: navigating that, which is great, that's brilliant. I've
Joanne Lockwood: got some friends who have cochlear implants and they
Joanne Lockwood: sign and lip read. Yeah and it's a
Joanne Lockwood: fascinating. Currently I haven't got the
Joanne Lockwood: drive to do it. Maybe Monday, maybe Monday, but it's interesting to hear
Joanne Lockwood: that you're still engaging with the fostering system
Joanne Lockwood: and the care system to feed back your lived experience.
Joanne Lockwood: And to the people I know who've been through care, who,
Joanne Lockwood: black or brown, had so many experiences of being
Joanne Lockwood: fostered with white families and losing their cultural identity and their heritage and things like
Joanne Lockwood: this, I'd like to think we've evolved.
Joanne Lockwood: Has the care system evolved a lot since then? Very much so.
Paris Bartholomew: The 1989 Children act was one of the first pieces of
Paris Bartholomew: legislation to specifically mention
Paris Bartholomew: cultural heritage and the fact that when a child is placed
Paris Bartholomew: with foster carers, it's not that the foster carers have to
Paris Bartholomew: specifically be from exactly the same culture
Paris Bartholomew: or culture experience or race as the child, but they have to
Paris Bartholomew: have links in those communities, they have to have
Paris Bartholomew: the ability to actively engage that
Paris Bartholomew: child in identity work. They have to be able to
Paris Bartholomew: give that child continual cultural support and
Paris Bartholomew: collaborate with other community groups and organisations that
Paris Bartholomew: can provide that. For example, I remember one, a foster carer that shaved
Paris Bartholomew: all my hair off because they tried to wash it with
Paris Bartholomew: this soap and it just turned into a matty
Paris Bartholomew: mess, so they just shaved it off with the clippers. And I was called a
Paris Bartholomew: boy for ages and I just remember the trauma
Paris Bartholomew: of turning up to school and everyone just laughing and just saying, you've
Paris Bartholomew: turned into a boy. And for me at that, I was about eight or
Paris Bartholomew: nine at the time, I was so traumatised by
Paris Bartholomew: it. And so it's just really. Foster care is
Paris Bartholomew: understanding that children have cultural needs, children have
Paris Bartholomew: identity needs, and it's great that you've got a spare bedroom
Paris Bartholomew: and you've got all this love to give, but you also need to be able
Paris Bartholomew: to meet that child's cultural and identity needs as
Paris Bartholomew: well. Yeah, you'd better enrich their experience with
Joanne Lockwood: all their dimensions as well. Absolutely. And it needs to
Paris Bartholomew: be therapeutic and it needs to be supportive and it needs to be
Paris Bartholomew: educational. It's about ticking all of those
Paris Bartholomew: boxes and being with the fostering network has just given me that ability
Paris Bartholomew: to be part of that screening process for foster carers,
Paris Bartholomew: so that when I'm training them, I can give specific
Paris Bartholomew: feedback to say, well, look, this person seems like they really
Paris Bartholomew: know what they're saying and they're willing to learn. Yeah. Regretfully,
Joanne Lockwood: there'll always be demand for fostering and the care system
Joanne Lockwood: because of someone's family
Joanne Lockwood: situation, whether it's not just domestic violence or
Joanne Lockwood: abuse, also tragedy and trauma in people's lives.
Paris Bartholomew: Absolutely. And I guess if we also look at
Joanne Lockwood: the impact of people who are maybe migrating to
Joanne Lockwood: this country, we see lots of unaccompanied
Joanne Lockwood: young people who are arriving on our shores with no
Joanne Lockwood: means of support, parents or family around, escaping
Joanne Lockwood: from war or other tragedies from their home country. So I guess that makes
Joanne Lockwood: it even more complex when we've got language challenges
Joanne Lockwood: as well as identity challenges and coming from war zones
Joanne Lockwood: and escaping, well, potential
Joanne Lockwood: death or situations where you are fleeing for your lives,
Joanne Lockwood: aren't you? Yeah. Horrific violence, horrific
Paris Bartholomew: family and cultural events and events that
Paris Bartholomew: in some countries being meted out in the name of religion and
Paris Bartholomew: politics and all the rest of it and tradition. You're
Paris Bartholomew: right, there is a massive need for more
Paris Bartholomew: carers that can respond to those needs, that can respond to what those
Paris Bartholomew: children need. And you mentioned earlier about
Paris Bartholomew: cuts being made. And that's the concern. That's the
Paris Bartholomew: worry, because actually what we need to be doing is pumping more money
Paris Bartholomew: in those directions so that people that
Paris Bartholomew: haven't got all of the skills to support those types of people can develop
Paris Bartholomew: those skills because the resources are there for them to be able to develop those
Paris Bartholomew: skills. Fascinating. Paris. Wow. Absolutely
Joanne Lockwood: blown away by our conversation. And I feel privileged to have met
Joanne Lockwood: you several times in person, and I'm sure we'll meet many times again in the
Joanne Lockwood: future. But you have certainly opened my eyes and my heart
Joanne Lockwood: and all of me to your lived experience.
Joanne Lockwood: And I've got a greater understanding of
Joanne Lockwood: care and the potential. And it doesn't have to be the end of anyone's
Joanne Lockwood: life. It's just the beginning. Absolutely. I'm
Joanne Lockwood: sure others listening today will want to get in contact with you.
Joanne Lockwood: What's the best way of getting hold of you, finding you, tracking you down?
Paris Bartholomew: So I do have a website. I have a website that's specifically
Paris Bartholomew: dedicated to my training, and you can find
Paris Bartholomew: that@survivegrowinspire.com.
Paris Bartholomew: That's survivegrowinspire. And I also have my speaking website,
Paris Bartholomew: which is parisbatholomew.com. Of course, I'm on
Paris Bartholomew: all the usual platforms, LinkedIn and Instagram and
Paris Bartholomew: TikTok even. But it would be great if you want
Paris Bartholomew: to connect with me and open up a conversation, because I'm all
Paris Bartholomew: about storytelling and conversations, as you said, that is definitely the
Paris Bartholomew: way forward. I love your email address. It's
Joanne Lockwood: Paris, not the city. And I thought that was great. Paris, not the city,
Joanne Lockwood: not the hotel. Not the hotel, definitely not the city,
Paris Bartholomew: definitely not the person. Absolutely.
Joanne Lockwood: Paris, the Bartolomew. That's the one. That's the one. So
Paris Bartholomew: yes, email at
Paris Bartholomew: ParisNotTheCity@gmail.com. It's been such a pleasure
Paris Bartholomew: having a conversation with you, Joanne. It's just been really nice
Paris Bartholomew: just talking about inclusion from my
Paris Bartholomew: perspective and reflecting on some of those
Paris Bartholomew: experiences that I've had as well. Thank you so much for having me.
Joanne Lockwood: Absolute pleasure. As we bring this
Joanne Lockwood: conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest
Joanne Lockwood: gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear
Joanne Lockwood: and heart to the cause of inclusion.
Joanne Lockwood: Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing to
Joanne Lockwood: inclusion bites and become part of our ever growing
Joanne Lockwood: community, driving real change. Share this journey with
Joanne Lockwood: friends, family and colleagues. Let's amplify the voices
Joanne Lockwood: that matter. Got thoughts, stories, or a
Joanne Lockwood: vision to share? I'm all ears. Reach out to
Joanne Lockwood: jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk.
Joanne Lockwood: and let's make your voice heard. Until next time,
Joanne Lockwood: this is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return
Joanne Lockwood: with more enriching narratives that challenge,
Joanne Lockwood: inspire, and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more
Joanne Lockwood: inclusive world, one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.