Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your
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Joanne Lockwood: Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into
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Joanne Lockwood: So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to
Joanne Lockwood: ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.
Joanne Lockwood: And today is episode 114 with the
Joanne Lockwood: title Kinks and All. And I have
Joanne Lockwood: the absolute honor and privilege to welcome Sarah Naylor. Sarah
Joanne Lockwood: is the businesswoman who, until last year, ran a recruitment agent
Joanne Lockwood: and also a writer, author, and podcast host in her spare
Joanne Lockwood: time, I guess. When I asked Sarah to describe her superpower, she said it is
Joanne Lockwood: her ability to be herself,
Joanne Lockwood: embracing all of her kinks, wrinkles, full boils,
Joanne Lockwood: and constantly seeing the positives in everything. Hello,
Joanne Lockwood: Sarah. Welcome to the show. Hello, Jo, and thank
Sarah Naylor: you so much for inviting me along.
Sarah Naylor: Absolutely thrilled and honored to be here. It's
Sarah Naylor: absolutely brilliant. And when I just heard you repeating my intro then, I thought I
Sarah Naylor: ought to change that word because foibles sounds like furballs, and I generally don't
Sarah Naylor: have furballs. But
Joanne Lockwood: 4 boils are good. I it's a boils. Oh, I'm sorry. I used a bit.
Sarah Naylor: 4 boils. I don't have 4 boils either. It sounds like the old Ronnie Corbit
Sarah Naylor: sketch. Can I have 4 candles, please?
Joanne Lockwood: It's interesting you, you focus on the word 4 boils and not the
Joanne Lockwood: word kinks. Wow. So tell me about this.
Joanne Lockwood: Tell me about your kinks and all. Oh, right. Well, I think,
Sarah Naylor: personally I mean, let me let me re rewind some, I
Sarah Naylor: don't know, 19 years or so post divorce as I
Sarah Naylor: embarked and recognized, I should say, the opportunity to kick start my
Sarah Naylor: life and recreate my life and have a second opportunity at it in this lifetime.
Sarah Naylor: And I kinda went on a a real fast
Sarah Naylor: track personal development journey. I felt like a sponge. I
Sarah Naylor: was, like, absorbing absolutely everything, and there was
Sarah Naylor: stuff that I'd always been aware of. But once, at the
Sarah Naylor: time, during my my sort of marriages, I wasn't aware of because
Sarah Naylor: of this the situation I found myself in. However, I started to
Sarah Naylor: embark on dating again in my my I'm in my twenties,
Sarah Naylor: in my forties, if you like, just saying yes to stuff
Sarah Naylor: and going out into the world, which I I I haven't
Sarah Naylor: done. Post having having had my son 6 years prior
Sarah Naylor: to getting divorced, I'd not been out. I'd not got a social circle. I'd not
Sarah Naylor: got a network. And so I was really exploring everything, and
Sarah Naylor: that included me, who I was, who I
Sarah Naylor: am, and unlocking, you know, who who
Sarah Naylor: I am. And that is all your your kinks, your foibles, your
Sarah Naylor: furballs, your, you know, your wrinkles. And in terms of
Sarah Naylor: the kinks, you know, yeah. I mean, it's you know, let's let's
Sarah Naylor: start to talk about sex. Let's let's talk sex. Why
Sarah Naylor: not? You know, and understanding what turns you on, what what appeals to you. You
Sarah Naylor: know, that's about understanding who you are as a person and what you
Sarah Naylor: enjoy, and you can only find that out by doing a bit of exploration and
Sarah Naylor: embracing those elements of kink. And, you
Sarah Naylor: know, what is kink? Kink is something that is not
Sarah Naylor: deemed mainstream. It's not deemed the
Sarah Naylor: norm. It's something that's a little bit that the
Sarah Naylor: normal people would say is is out there, but when you're out there,
Sarah Naylor: it's quite normal, if that makes sense. You know?
Sarah Naylor: It's about embracing who you are. And when you start to do that,
Sarah Naylor: this is where the sort of acceptance of the self, acceptance of others,
Sarah Naylor: acceptance of, you know, be just
Sarah Naylor: generally accepting people for who they
Sarah Naylor: are, but that comes from accepting yourself as well. Because until you
Sarah Naylor: start to accept who you are and what things that you like and what things
Sarah Naylor: that you don't like, what control do you have when actually you
Sarah Naylor: do have control over your behavior because you aren't your behavior, but it's about going
Sarah Naylor: on that journey about finding out who you are, what you like, what you
Sarah Naylor: love doing, and that comes into those kinky bits too
Sarah Naylor: because, hey. You know, it's good. It's why not? Why not? I I
Sarah Naylor: like wearing latex. You know, I've got a latex account with 62,000
Sarah Naylor: followers that I set up a couple of years ago for fun. You know?
Sarah Naylor: It's great. It's lovely. You know, I'm most of my time in jeans. I'm
Sarah Naylor: in late I'm in Lycra or jeans and don't wear any makeup.
Sarah Naylor: Every sort of 4 to 6 weeks, we get dressed up in latex and take
Sarah Naylor: some photographs, have some fun, share it, and it's it's all above board. It's
Sarah Naylor: just fun. People want to take it another stage,
Sarah Naylor: they can do. You know, we just have me and my partner, we have fun
Sarah Naylor: getting dressed up and yeah. It's kinky. Some people like
Sarah Naylor: feet. Some people like hands. Some people like Hunter welly
Sarah Naylor: boots. You know? It's they're all nature of kinks out there, but
Sarah Naylor: embrace yours and have fun. Oh, it was a long answer.
Joanne Lockwood: This. No. I'm loving I'm loving it. It's, I
Joanne Lockwood: said, think about the word kink, and and you talk you
Joanne Lockwood: use the word normal people. And I'm thinking,
Joanne Lockwood: actually, wherever whoever we can describe normal as, normal
Joanne Lockwood: people have kinks. Normal people have things they will
Joanne Lockwood: never talk about. They won't share. They're embarrassed. Yeah. Or their
Joanne Lockwood: their private things in their own bedroom with a partner
Joanne Lockwood: or or more than one partner or in their own in their own,
Joanne Lockwood: time. So, yeah, I think we all have something in our heads, an
Joanne Lockwood: alter ego, a fantasy. Mhmm. It's just that some
Joanne Lockwood: people are able to share that to the world as you do with your
Joanne Lockwood: Instagram site, and some people aren't.
Joanne Lockwood: So why are we so afraid to talk
Joanne Lockwood: about these, yeah, as you say, kinks? I
Sarah Naylor: think it's because it's society. It's other people's
Sarah Naylor: impressions, you know, and it's always people get fearful. People get
Sarah Naylor: worried about what people will think about them. You know? It's
Sarah Naylor: and this is where the acceptance of the self comes in. Because once you start
Sarah Naylor: to accept yourself for who you are, you become more
Sarah Naylor: resilient, and what other people think is
Sarah Naylor: irrelevant. And if they don't like it, it's it's their stuff.
Sarah Naylor: It's not for you to change it's not for you to change to appease anybody
Sarah Naylor: else. And that that would if we can we move away from the word kink
Sarah Naylor: or kinks, but but literally just look at people being
Sarah Naylor: themselves, identifying with who they are, understanding what they are
Sarah Naylor: and who they are and what that looks like to them. Once you
Sarah Naylor: identify that, you're gonna live a happier and healthier life as a result. But as
Sarah Naylor: you start to if you start to keep on
Sarah Naylor: changing who you are to appease other people, that's never
Sarah Naylor: gonna work. You're going to be out of alignment. You're not going to be happy.
Sarah Naylor: You could end up with sort of different ailments and problems and issues and things
Sarah Naylor: like that that are going to cause, yeah, cause
Sarah Naylor: you cause you dis disease. You know, you're going to be dis you know,
Sarah Naylor: with not in flow with yourself. You're going to be out of
Sarah Naylor: your your flow. And when you're in flow, it's when you've accepted
Sarah Naylor: yourself. And then when you come into the kinks, if you're accepting those, it's
Sarah Naylor: if if you don't want to share them with the world, that's absolutely fine, but
Sarah Naylor: it's understanding and accepting it within yourself.
Sarah Naylor: And that's yeah. That is the part of that exploration and
Sarah Naylor: understanding about who you
Sarah Naylor: are, but not being fearful. And
Sarah Naylor: that's why I stepped out really to to walk my talk, because I've always
Sarah Naylor: been in part of my whole ethos in terms of
Sarah Naylor: my coaching practice, my way of being, and people that come into
Sarah Naylor: my orbit. I love encouraging other people to be exactly
Sarah Naylor: who they are. Don't worry about what other people think because that
Sarah Naylor: is just their stuff. We're all on this planet to learn. We're all in this
Sarah Naylor: planet to have this lifetime that we have
Sarah Naylor: preselected, I believe, to come in and experience. And unless we
Sarah Naylor: deal with what's delivered to us,
Sarah Naylor: we won't progress. And it's that old adage of, you know, you keep doing the
Sarah Naylor: same thing, you get the same results. So if you keep on wanting a different
Sarah Naylor: life, but you're not making any changes, and you're stuck in that mode of trying
Sarah Naylor: to please Bill, Jane, or whoever it is because you think that
Sarah Naylor: they'll like you more if you be how who they want you to be, but
Sarah Naylor: you'll never appease them because they will always want you to be something else. But
Sarah Naylor: you've got to be you for who you are, then you'll attract the people into
Sarah Naylor: your life who want to be around you for who you
Sarah Naylor: are, not because they you're you're you are who they want.
Sarah Naylor: They want yes. You know what I mean? I'm getting wrapped up round my words,
Sarah Naylor: but, you know, I've got an issue, unfortunately, with my son who thinks that I
Sarah Naylor: should behave a certain way, and I won't. You know, I've had it's been difficult.
Sarah Naylor: It's been very, very hard, but I've had to stand my ground. As a, you
Sarah Naylor: know, as a result, we've not spoken for a year, but I
Sarah Naylor: cannot be dictated to by my son as to how
Sarah Naylor: I should live my life because my life is my
Sarah Naylor: life, and your life is your life. How you want to live it is
Sarah Naylor: entirely to you. And as long as you are living your
Sarah Naylor: life for you from a heart centered
Sarah Naylor: perspective and you are not doing anything
Sarah Naylor: overtly, deliberately, on purpose to hurt or
Sarah Naylor: upset or offend anybody, then that is all your business.
Sarah Naylor: You be you because you are gonna forge a way
Sarah Naylor: for change for other people. I know from doing my, you know, my account,
Sarah Naylor: other people have gained confidence in wearing sort
Sarah Naylor: of latex or being themselves more so because, you
Sarah Naylor: know, they can once certain people start to see you doing something, then
Sarah Naylor: it makes it more accessible to them as well. So it's it's really
Sarah Naylor: important that we aren't all sheep. You know? And we're not
Sarah Naylor: I don't wanna be Barbie. I don't wanna be Ken. I don't want to be
Sarah Naylor: a cutout, you know, reproduced item. I am
Sarah Naylor: me. You know, I remember going back into this into the nineties and
Sarah Naylor: working for a a national international, actually, recruitment business,
Sarah Naylor: and, then wearing then sort of starting to wear a trouser suit. Now
Sarah Naylor: we're talking about I had to conform to
Sarah Naylor: that was a that was a Kelly girl, and I had to wear,
Sarah Naylor: you know, skirts and a a blouse and sort of little little heeled shoes, that
Sarah Naylor: kind of thing. And I thought, no. I I'm gonna wear, you know, I
Sarah Naylor: wanna wear trousers. I wore I bought, you know, really nice silk
Sarah Naylor: brown trouser suits. I wanted to wear trousers. I thought, come and beat me up
Sarah Naylor: with a stick. You know, I don't you know, I've not got a problem with
Sarah Naylor: the the guys wearing skirts. Who says who says
Sarah Naylor: what we should wear? Seriously, who is it that makes up these rules, and what
Sarah Naylor: is it about a skirt being a skirt in one language Joanne actually it being
Sarah Naylor: something completely different in another language? You know, a kilt is a kilt is a
Sarah Naylor: skirt. You know, a a a long dress in some in some
Sarah Naylor: religions is is called something, but in this it's
Sarah Naylor: just ridiculous. Wear what you want to wear and be
Sarah Naylor: happy. You know? Seriously, folks. Just be
Sarah Naylor: yourself. Does it really matter? Who cares
Joanne Lockwood: really? But there's there's still you you talked about yourself.
Joanne Lockwood: You know? There's there's there's kind of 2 2 demons at play in
Joanne Lockwood: this sort of something, isn't it? There's there's the embracing
Joanne Lockwood: yourself Mhmm. And allowing yourself
Joanne Lockwood: to be explore different sides of you, your kings, your
Joanne Lockwood: identity, your sexuality, your hobbies, whatever it may be.
Joanne Lockwood: And then the other side of that is sharing being able to
Joanne Lockwood: share that with other people. Mhmm. So sometimes we can indulge
Joanne Lockwood: ourselves as a private thing, whatever that may
Joanne Lockwood: be, but to tell others. And you
Joanne Lockwood: mentioned the fact your your son doesn't
Joanne Lockwood: embrace the whole you at the moment. I mean,
Joanne Lockwood: I've been through a stage of my life where my daughter didn't embrace the whole
Joanne Lockwood: of me, and that took a couple of years to work its way out and
Joanne Lockwood: to resolve when we're there now. But that that fear of judgment,
Joanne Lockwood: that fear of rejection, that fear of loss, that fear of getting it wrong,
Joanne Lockwood: that fear of losing something is really, really powerful and keeps people
Joanne Lockwood: in their box, in their lane, and behind the wardrobe. It
Sarah Naylor: can do. Yes. If you allow it to. And now this the key
Sarah Naylor: is understanding you are in control of your behavior. If you can recognize that it
Sarah Naylor: is that that fear as you've called it. But we have
Sarah Naylor: control over how we experience the world. But once you actually
Sarah Naylor: recognize it for what it is I mean, I I've done a lot of somatic
Sarah Naylor: healing because of all the stuff that kicked off for me personally last year that
Sarah Naylor: was off the back of my son. I had a lot of other things. Everything
Sarah Naylor: was ambushed me all at the same time last year. I
Sarah Naylor: survived. I'm still here. And the the fear
Sarah Naylor: fear is something that we had back if we go
Sarah Naylor: back historically to living in caves, you you know, you you've got to have that
Sarah Naylor: fear to stop you from running out and getting eaten by a bear. And in
Sarah Naylor: these days, it stops you from really running out in front of a bus, and
Sarah Naylor: you've you know, it's about being mindful about that level of fear. But
Sarah Naylor: fear is something that you can create in your own mind, but once you actually
Sarah Naylor: recognize it, it's what is the worst that can happen? Seriously, what is the worst
Sarah Naylor: that can happen? If it happens, you deal with it. But it's
Sarah Naylor: not allowing it to to to freeze you. It's about
Sarah Naylor: thinking about what response that you not response. What
Sarah Naylor: outcome you want and how it portrays what you put out is
Sarah Naylor: what you get back. So if you're projecting fear, you will
Sarah Naylor: attract stuff in that is going to be negative and fearful. When
Sarah Naylor: I first opened up my
Sarah Naylor: Instagram account, I got some horrific,
Sarah Naylor: horrible comments, and it's just like and it's hurtful.
Sarah Naylor: You know? It is hurtful. Then he's like, no. Let me get out of my
Sarah Naylor: own way with this. This is this is somebody sitting behind,
Sarah Naylor: you know, a blank screen. They're not presenting themselves. They're
Sarah Naylor: not stepping out of their comfort zone. They're just sitting there trolling to make themselves
Sarah Naylor: feel better. And, actually, that's quite sad because they're clearly deeply sad
Sarah Naylor: inside that they feel that by casting aspersions to other
Sarah Naylor: people, that is going to make them feel better because their project what what
Sarah Naylor: happens is people transfer that stuff
Sarah Naylor: to remove it from them. And if you accept it, you're helping them,
Sarah Naylor: but actually if you put boundaries in place and go, no. So I would
Sarah Naylor: report, block, delete because you don't want it
Sarah Naylor: resonating. The minute I see a negative comment, I just delete it. I
Sarah Naylor: could respond. Occasionally, I get drawn in to respond and go, Sarah,
Sarah Naylor: no. You're just wasting your energy because these people want to draw on your
Sarah Naylor: energy. They want to siphon it. They're energy vampires. They want to suck
Sarah Naylor: they want to suck you in to make themselves feel better.
Sarah Naylor: Jo. Do you know what? I've got an amazing array of
Sarah Naylor: friends these days from having 19 years ago, having started
Sarah Naylor: from scratch, literally starting from scratch. I I got
Sarah Naylor: any real friends. My one friend had moved to France, one friend was
Sarah Naylor: traveling India, and one friend was in Wiltshire or something like that. Those were the
Sarah Naylor: only people that kind of loosely got as friends. But I I kick
Sarah Naylor: started my life and and and and have built it up to the where it
Sarah Naylor: is today. And I've got friends and contacts globally, and they're
Sarah Naylor: brilliant people. And they're people like yourself, Joanne. You know, they're people
Sarah Naylor: who want the best for the world. They want a better outcome. They want
Sarah Naylor: the world to be a better place, and that's why you're doing what
Sarah Naylor: you're doing. It's why I do what I do. It's through my coaching, and I've
Sarah Naylor: got my own podcast. I'm I'm not on Insight Timer as well. I'm creating
Sarah Naylor: content on there, and it's all for the greater good. You know?
Sarah Naylor: I I want people to be happy. I want people to know that they are
Sarah Naylor: they don't have to live the life that they are living. You can change. You
Sarah Naylor: can put a new program into your into your mindset. You go, actually, do
Sarah Naylor: you know what? No. You can once you hear that monkey chat, you
Sarah Naylor: go, no. I mean, just Jo. No.
Sarah Naylor: What what do I want? And and and it's reframing it, rewording it
Sarah Naylor: in a positive manner, using positive scenarios and situations. You
Sarah Naylor: know, it's tricking tricking your subconscious. There's the old phrase of fake it
Sarah Naylor: till you make it, but there's a there's a truth in that because if you
Sarah Naylor: step into we were starting to talk about the quantum now. If you step
Sarah Naylor: into that energy flow that is the quantum because there's a myriad
Sarah Naylor: of potential opportunities for you depending on what decisions
Sarah Naylor: you make. But, actually, if you perceive what you actually want
Sarah Naylor: to do in the future, you can and start to act like it's happened
Sarah Naylor: already, then it will it will it will track its way in. But if you
Sarah Naylor: constantly think of all the negative stuff, all you'll end up doing is dragging yourself
Sarah Naylor: down, giving other people your energy, and feeling like a little sort
Sarah Naylor: of lost lost hope in the corner, which is fine. It might be part of
Sarah Naylor: your learning. But if you want to progress, you've actually got to take
Sarah Naylor: action. You just said yeah. I I completely resonate with, and
Joanne Lockwood: I I I was I I actually did an interview on on GB News yesterday
Joanne Lockwood: discussing a fairly high profile employment
Joanne Lockwood: tribunal case against a teacher who would not respect one of his
Joanne Lockwood: transgender pupils. So I'd hold on GB News. I put it on Facebook afterwards.
Joanne Lockwood: And I I so my friends on Facebook were all kind of
Joanne Lockwood: like, oh, wow. I couldn't have gone on there. Wow. You know, other trans people
Joanne Lockwood: and I was, oh, would you wanna go into that that that den of inequity
Joanne Lockwood: for? What do you wanna go to be bathe in the GP GB News
Joanne Lockwood: area? So most of the people I knew, who are
Joanne Lockwood: my friends, were kind of in, I wouldn't do that. That's too scary for
Joanne Lockwood: me. How how could I possibly put myself out there? Course, then I went to
Joanne Lockwood: the GB News website and looked at all the comments that were developing under the
Joanne Lockwood: under the and I thought, it's almost like playing hate bingo, isn't it? Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: Oh, yeah. Tick. You got that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. We got that one. Tick. Thank
Joanne Lockwood: you. I'll I'll add that one. Oh, you missed 1. Oh, you haven't.
Joanne Lockwood: I popped them to Twitter this morning. I thought, oh, yeah. Here's here's the here's
Joanne Lockwood: the rest of the comments on Twitter. And I thought they're all predictable. And
Joanne Lockwood: I I've I've kinda got a policy there. You know? I've got I get
Joanne Lockwood: trolled on YouTube, my channels. Every everywhere I go, I get trolled on it, and
Joanne Lockwood: to some degree, TikTok. And I've kind of developed this kind
Joanne Lockwood: of I just leave it. I just I I I I leave the comments there
Joanne Lockwood: because other people need to see them as well. Mhmm. And for me,
Joanne Lockwood: it it's it's people who are positive towards me, towards what I do, and
Joanne Lockwood: how I do it, need to see my lived experience about what
Joanne Lockwood: I wake up to Mhmm. And what my notifications on my phone pop up. They
Joanne Lockwood: jump into my head all this time. So I can I can frame it
Joanne Lockwood: as graffiti and just drive past it and ignore it? I
Joanne Lockwood: don't I don't internalize most of it. Because most of it, they they don't know
Joanne Lockwood: me. It's not personal. It's just they just get say
Joanne Lockwood: to the world, aren't they? Mhmm. So yeah. But it's
Joanne Lockwood: it does take a little bit of personal I'm not gonna
Joanne Lockwood: say the word courage, whatever that may be, vigor,
Joanne Lockwood: determination, confidence to be able to do this. And most
Joanne Lockwood: people step back and go, oh, wow. You I could do what
Joanne Lockwood: you do. And that that that's that's the barrier a lot of people face, isn't
Joanne Lockwood: it? It is. And I think there's a lot to do with this the I
Sarah Naylor: mean, if we're coming back down to sort of spirit and soul, it depends where
Sarah Naylor: you are in your soul journey. And I think, you know, there are different levels
Sarah Naylor: of how many lifetimes, what you've lived through, what you want to learn,
Sarah Naylor: and then some people want to some people come into the lifetime to trigger other
Sarah Naylor: things in other people. So the stuff that people do I mean, it's a it's
Sarah Naylor: a hard one to thing to sort of digest, but people that do things that
Sarah Naylor: are bad then are creating as an opportunity for other people to learn, to evolve,
Sarah Naylor: and to get, you know, go through that so that they are playing
Sarah Naylor: their part in this. And it's just a big computer game. I'm just convinced we're
Sarah Naylor: in a big computer game, you know, John. I really do. It's like Yeah. Who
Sarah Naylor: knows? Who knows? I do you know what? This is this is a funny thing.
Sarah Naylor: I've I've gone completely off topic now, but I watched it off documentary many, many
Sarah Naylor: years ago, and it really sort of struck a chord with me because
Sarah Naylor: I saw it was this it was about the water
Sarah Naylor: coming back to some big desert area or
Sarah Naylor: canyon or something like in the states. And I thought, you know you know, you
Sarah Naylor: sort of talk about microcosms and, you know,
Sarah Naylor: whatever. Yeah. That that that sort of that pot of water, you know, let's say
Sarah Naylor: it's like a a a plate full of water. To that plate full of water,
Sarah Naylor: those microscopic animals, not animals. I don't
Sarah Naylor: I don't know the word. Or organisms. Microcosmos. That'll do.
Sarah Naylor: Yes. Organisms as opposed to orgasms, that's something else. We'll go back to sex afterwards.
Sarah Naylor: But organisms in the water, for them, what they can see,
Sarah Naylor: that is their world, isn't it? That is their world. But, actually, that
Sarah Naylor: that pot of water is just as it gets bigger, it gets bigger, it
Sarah Naylor: gets bigger. And that they are just within a big
Sarah Naylor: pond, then it becomes a lake. It becomes an ocean. It becomes but they
Sarah Naylor: have no concept of anything beyond that.
Sarah Naylor: And aren't we the same as that? We are just this sort of
Sarah Naylor: dot in this huge, huge context of everything,
Sarah Naylor: and we we don't know what we don't know because we can't see
Sarah Naylor: it. But because we can't see it doesn't mean it's not there, but we're all
Sarah Naylor: energy. We are made up of more energy than we are matter. So
Sarah Naylor: it depends on where we are on this sort of this mortal coil right
Sarah Naylor: now as to how we behave. However, we do have that control over our
Sarah Naylor: behavior and anybody that is fearful. Just try stepping out of
Sarah Naylor: that comfort zone. Because the comfort zone, it isn't it's a silly
Sarah Naylor: word for it really, isn't it? Because it's not a comfort zone at all. It
Sarah Naylor: it's a it's a it's a zone that doesn't really take you anywhere. It keeps
Sarah Naylor: you doing the status quo. And if you're happy with that, that's absolutely fine.
Sarah Naylor: However, if you want something to be different, you do have to step out. I
Sarah Naylor: mean, last year, my business went into administration. My my son
Sarah Naylor: stopped speaking to me to sell my car to pay my mortgage.
Sarah Naylor: Yeah. It was pretty brutal last year, but
Sarah Naylor: survived. Still here. Hello.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I've I've I've still got that t shirt somewhere. I've, I've I've
Joanne Lockwood: been there as well. The you when you get to the bottom,
Joanne Lockwood: it's it's, there's nothing left. I remember the, the
Joanne Lockwood: person who came to collect my BMW and put it on the back of a
Joanne Lockwood: low loader. Mhmm. He started inspecting it and saying, oh, there's a chip here, and
Joanne Lockwood: there's this here, and there's that there. And he said, are you
Joanne Lockwood: okay? I said, yeah. He said, you're smiling. I said, yeah. I said, I'm just
Joanne Lockwood: I've just got bust. You know, you could tell me what if you like. It
Joanne Lockwood: doesn't matter to me. All I want you to do is take the car away.
Joanne Lockwood: It doesn't yeah. Just just go for it. Don't don't bother me with this trivia
Joanne Lockwood: about how much you you're gonna charge me for stuff. It's like, you don't have
Joanne Lockwood: to get any more money out of me. Yeah. So I kinda laughed. It was
Joanne Lockwood: like it was like, but people are normally angry with me. I think, well, yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: Have a good treat this as your bonus day.
Sarah Naylor: But what what you've demonstrated there is that sort of that surrendering, and
Sarah Naylor: that's that's what I had to do probably 2 or 3, 4 times last year.
Sarah Naylor: And even just recently, I've had to surrender and get out of my own way,
Sarah Naylor: and that is something that is really put important to sort of acknowledge
Sarah Naylor: and take note of because we can't we can't control
Sarah Naylor: stuff. You know? And and when we try and control things, we're not in
Sarah Naylor: flow with our own energy, and that's when you start to come up against resistance.
Sarah Naylor: You're going, right. It's not worth it's not happening. It's not how I wanted it
Sarah Naylor: to be. Yeah. Well, you might think it's not how you want it to be,
Sarah Naylor: but it's how it's meant to be. So when you kinda go with this flow
Sarah Naylor: and I I very much trust now my sort of instinct, my intuition. It's not
Sarah Naylor: to say I don't have my moments. Like I said, just recently, I because
Sarah Naylor: of all the things that have gone on last year, my my money that
Sarah Naylor: I've got is caught up into bricks and mortar. But in terms of a day
Sarah Naylor: to day income, it's not where it was, let's put it this way, 3 or
Sarah Naylor: 4 years ago. And I I'm used to and I have done for
Sarah Naylor: 40 odd years, you know, been able to
Sarah Naylor: be completely self sufficient, and I've always been, you know,
Sarah Naylor: main contributor to household incomes. And when you're not and
Sarah Naylor: when you're reliant upon somebody else, it's kinda like, this isn't oh,
Sarah Naylor: this is not this doesn't feel right. You know, I'm used to being able to
Sarah Naylor: do this. That and then it was me that got the problem, not my partner.
Sarah Naylor: He was more than happy to continue paying, so he can see what I've contributed
Sarah Naylor: in terms of the sort of what we're living in. But that doesn't mean to
Sarah Naylor: say it wasn't affecting me, but I had to get out of my own way.
Sarah Naylor: And that's where you you surrender, and you you you just
Sarah Naylor: let go. And the minute I let go, it's like, you take that
Sarah Naylor: pressure off yourself, don't you? Like, you let the car go. You know, I
Sarah Naylor: let the car go, and it gave me a pot of money to keep paying
Sarah Naylor: the mortgage while we were trying to sell his house and my house so we
Sarah Naylor: could actually buy and move. So we weren't hemorrhaging money there. I haven't
Sarah Naylor: even got. But as I
Sarah Naylor: said, you know, if you don't step out there, if you don't do that and
Sarah Naylor: I mean, I could have gone and got another job, but I'm self employed. I've
Sarah Naylor: got I've got my coaching practice. I've got so I've just mentioned earlier, I'm on
Sarah Naylor: Insight Timer and got I've got I actually have got another property that's rental income,
Sarah Naylor: but that's changed because mortgages have gone up. Thanks, Liz Truss.
Sarah Naylor: I'm not really earning as much as that. Not that it was ever a ever
Sarah Naylor: a property bought to, to earn an income. I'm a I'm a sort of an
Sarah Naylor: accidental landlord as a result of a previous relationship, and we couldn't sell the
Sarah Naylor: property then and I took it on. But it is what it is. But, you
Sarah Naylor: know, things will evolve. Things are evolving. It you know,
Sarah Naylor: we we spoke prior to, to coming on, didn't we, in
Sarah Naylor: recording and about materialism and things that we need and what's sufficient.
Sarah Naylor: And, actually, as long as you're happy with life, there's there's so many different ways.
Sarah Naylor: Money becomes this is and money's an energy that we need
Sarah Naylor: to buy things with to exchange. However, what we've perceived
Sarah Naylor: that we need is usually governed by what people are telling us we want through
Sarah Naylor: marketing and media and all this sort of stuff. However, if you come back
Sarah Naylor: to thinking about yourself and what makes you happy, what really brings me the
Sarah Naylor: happiness is like when I went out for a trail run earlier, looking at the
Sarah Naylor: blossom on the trees, looking at the blue tits, looking at the nature, just actually
Sarah Naylor: being out there with my partner, enjoying it, stopping, taking pictures, having a having
Sarah Naylor: a kiss on the road on the track, you know, and just, like,
Sarah Naylor: enjoying ourselves. You know? And that's where the most pleasure comes in
Sarah Naylor: and doing stuff in the garden. Picking we go to this recycling tip with
Sarah Naylor: our garden rubbish, and they've got a shop there and usually end up coming back
Sarah Naylor: with more. But, you know,
Sarah Naylor: we talk. Yeah. Because they're they're selling things that go the money goes to
Sarah Naylor: charity. But there's some amazing stuff that people chuck out, and we've got
Sarah Naylor: some brilliant things for our house now that have cost us nothing. So who
Sarah Naylor: who says you need to earn as much as you think you need to earn?
Sarah Naylor: Because you can you can acquire things in lots of different ways. It's
Sarah Naylor: yeah. It's just how you view. It comes down to perspective.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. And that that's what we're saying about sufficiency. It's it's realizing
Joanne Lockwood: that more is not necessarily better. And I Yeah. But a lot of this
Joanne Lockwood: comes with age, isn't it? I mean, I look back at my life, and I
Joanne Lockwood: used to say I was in my early fifties, and I said I was in
Joanne Lockwood: my mid fifties. Now I guess I'm in my late fifties. Yeah. Sometimes
Joanne Lockwood: next year, I'll be starting with sixties. So, yeah, it's, it it comes
Joanne Lockwood: around, but experience comes with Joanne, and you you go through a lot of hard
Joanne Lockwood: knocks as you grow older. And I'm a I'm a I'm a great believer in
Joanne Lockwood: that you don't grow and learn by by getting it right. You grow and learn
Joanne Lockwood: by making mistakes. Oh, yeah. And and sometimes sometimes you make the
Joanne Lockwood: same mistake more than once. But, yeah, it's I think
Joanne Lockwood: listening to your story and and and how you described a lot of this is
Joanne Lockwood: some of it's been situational. You you've you didn't predict it. You bumped into it,
Joanne Lockwood: and, oh, well, yeah, shit happens as they
Joanne Lockwood: say. And and you just you pick it up and deal with it. And then
Joanne Lockwood: you become a a serial person
Joanne Lockwood: who who who is able to cope and deal with these things. Mhmm. And you
Joanne Lockwood: say, get up, dust yourself down, the weebles wobble, but they don't fall over sort
Joanne Lockwood: of thing, and you you gotta get back up again. And as we used to
Joanne Lockwood: call it in the nineties, I think it was bounce back ability, that resilience that
Joanne Lockwood: kicks in, isn't it? And that's Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, as you as
Sarah Naylor: you say, with wisdom and age, wisdom, experience, you sort of get
Sarah Naylor: to a point to go, do you know what? Can't CBA can't
Sarah Naylor: be arsed. It's just like Yeah. And you're
Sarah Naylor: right. You know, we build up a resilience. You you do what's right for you.
Sarah Naylor: This is what say coming back to the sort of the the kinks and the
Sarah Naylor: foibles and what have you again. It's about understanding yourself, accepting
Sarah Naylor: yourself, knowing what you like, what you don't like, not being bothered by what
Sarah Naylor: other people say. And I think as you are coming through sort of
Sarah Naylor: your teenage years into your twenties, you you you're very much you're acutely aware
Sarah Naylor: of peer pressure and wanting to fit in and and then sort of going through
Sarah Naylor: that sort of development setting, meeting a partner, having a relationship, having kids, and what
Sarah Naylor: have you. And you come out the other side and you go,
Sarah Naylor: uh-huh. No. I've gotta be me. I'm gonna be
Sarah Naylor: me. But it's all part of life, isn't it? Life is life is that
Sarah Naylor: journey. It is it's not about the the destination at all. It's
Sarah Naylor: not about the acquiring of material possessions.
Sarah Naylor: Saying it's nice to have certain things, you know, but that that should
Sarah Naylor: enhance your life and bring you joy as opposed
Sarah Naylor: to being acquired and required
Sarah Naylor: purely for, you know, greediness or for
Sarah Naylor: show or for, you know, for any other reason. You know? I
Sarah Naylor: I I not that you would know. I mean, we're recording. You can see me.
Sarah Naylor: I haven't got any silver jewelry on. I have got so much silver jewelry. I
Sarah Naylor: love jewelry. When do I wear it? Very rarely these days because
Sarah Naylor: you can't wear it when you've got earphones on. And then I've actually
Sarah Naylor: got bracelets and things like that on, they clunk when I'm on my
Sarah Naylor: keyboard. So I just don't really wear what I've got,
Sarah Naylor: but I've got shiny object syndrome. It's like,
Sarah Naylor: oh, that's nice. So I I acquire acquire
Sarah Naylor: I acquire artwork instead that I can hang on to the walls, and my partner
Sarah Naylor: calls the house Sarah's Gallery because I do have a habit
Sarah Naylor: of, yeah. Oh, that's nice. In fact, we went and picked a picture up. We'd
Sarah Naylor: seen on Facebook
Sarah Naylor: massive print for a fiver, and, that's unusual
Sarah Naylor: for me because I usually like original pieces of artwork, and the last piece I
Sarah Naylor: picked up was a nice little oil painting about, oh, I don't know,
Sarah Naylor: what, a 4 size, something like that. It was
Sarah Naylor: £5 as well from the from the recycling center. Hurrah.
Joanne Lockwood: Love it. Love it. And I get I get a bit is what I like
Sarah Naylor: to look into and find out about artists. I've got all sorts of things I've
Sarah Naylor: picked up in charity shops. So so I'm very much into sort of the whole
Sarah Naylor: recycling, repurposing, environmental. You don't need to buy all this
Sarah Naylor: stuff from you. The only reason so much is pumped out and manufactured
Sarah Naylor: is to line the shareholders' pockets, and all they want
Sarah Naylor: is more, more, more, more, more when we don't need more, more, more, more, more,
Sarah Naylor: more, and all this more, more, more, more, more is causing all these problems environmentally.
Sarah Naylor: It's just madness. It's madness. There could be so many let's get back to
Sarah Naylor: sustainability, building things that are gonna last,
Sarah Naylor: and, you know, if you want yeah. We don't need it all, do we? Let's
Sarah Naylor: look at things in other ways. Let's look after the planet. It's an
Sarah Naylor: amazing planet. It's a beautiful planet. Spend the money on
Sarah Naylor: conserving it, not raiding it and yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. When they when they took my car away, I I I I kind of
Joanne Lockwood: vowed to myself that I would, never buy another car with
Joanne Lockwood: finance or never never or any of these balloons or
Joanne Lockwood: whatever other payment schemes they were. So I went out and bought myself
Joanne Lockwood: a, I think, an 18 year old convertible.
Joanne Lockwood: Okay. It's a nice 18 year old convertible. It's a a Mercedes. Oh,
Sarah Naylor: nice. But when you you talked about life being a journey, I find that with
Joanne Lockwood: the roof down, every journey becomes an adventure. You know, you're stuck in
Joanne Lockwood: traffic on the n 25. It's a horrible day. You're stuck going
Joanne Lockwood: nowhere, but, yeah, you got the roof down, the sun's shining. You're sort of in
Joanne Lockwood: touch with the world. Okay. Maybe a bit smog and a bit pollution, but,
Joanne Lockwood: you know, I'm just sort of sitting there with the roof down, music loud,
Joanne Lockwood: just in my own world, looking at other people in their cars. They're all in
Joanne Lockwood: this little box. They're all kind of trapped in. They're all kind of I don't
Joanne Lockwood: know. But since you're at the roof off, every journey becomes an
Joanne Lockwood: adventure. It becomes Joanne amazing. Journey becomes part of it. And
Joanne Lockwood: I've had this car, what, 2 years. I had a I had a little convertible
Joanne Lockwood: Mini before. Nice. And it it's it's just it's just the only way to travel.
Joanne Lockwood: I I my my role basically is it's,
Joanne Lockwood: it's never it's never the wrong weather to have the roof down except
Joanne Lockwood: when you're parked. So as long as you
Joanne Lockwood: I've I've worked out. As long as you're doing more than 50 miles an hour,
Joanne Lockwood: the rain deflects over the top of the car and you don't get
Joanne Lockwood: wet. As soon as you drop below 50 miles an hour, you then get start
Joanne Lockwood: to get very, very wet. So I I drove back from, I think, Birmingham
Joanne Lockwood: or or further down the a 34, down the m m
Joanne Lockwood: 42, m 40, all these sort of places. In the pouring rain, I
Joanne Lockwood: mean, literally, it was heaving it down. And you get a bit of bit of
Joanne Lockwood: rain going on to the to the passenger and the and the driver's wind side
Joanne Lockwood: window. It sort of loops around with the vortex and flicks in your face
Joanne Lockwood: occasionally. But largely, I was bone dry when I got back. It was only
Sarah Naylor: Oh, awesome. It's only the traffic lights or the roundabouts that you had to kinda
Joanne Lockwood: go, do I bottle it? Do I bottle it? No. No. No. I just just
Joanne Lockwood: push through. So I made it all the way back in the pouring rain. I
Joanne Lockwood: say, as long as you keep about 55, 60 miles an hour all the way,
Joanne Lockwood: it's, you stay dry. So yeah. It's Sounds brilliant. Sounds invigorating.
Sarah Naylor: And that's really why we like going out trail running. I mean, at the same
Sarah Naylor: today, we went along on a disused, railway along, which we wanted to find
Sarah Naylor: out discover, which was nice and flat, made a change. But we're
Sarah Naylor: doing park runs, and we go out running along the seafront as well. I don't
Sarah Naylor: I won't run on the beach anymore because I did that. Was that last year?
Sarah Naylor: I think it might yes. That was when my body was attacked as well because
Sarah Naylor: I ran along the beach. When you got on a camber, and when I went
Sarah Naylor: to see the physio, she said, oh, I should see so many injuries from people
Sarah Naylor: running on the beach because you you you you can't get that same Stowman's and
Joanne Lockwood: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jo I won't do that anymore, but we know there's the
Sarah Naylor: promenade between Snettershire well, yeah, Snettershire not Snettershire,
Sarah Naylor: Heatsham, Heatsham, and Hunstanton that we will run along as well.
Sarah Naylor: It's just lovely being outside in nature, and that's why you were
Sarah Naylor: saying, you know, with the open, you know, the roof down, and you just you're
Sarah Naylor: you're with the elements, aren't you? And that's what's so exhilarating. And I I you
Sarah Naylor: know, coming back to the elements, I love the exhilaration of a thunderstorm
Sarah Naylor: and when it's properly raining. And I don't you know, this sort of
Sarah Naylor: this drizzly stuff that makes you really wet, but you can't really see it. It's
Sarah Naylor: not so pleasant. But there's always something. There's always you know, you can always look
Sarah Naylor: for the positive and everything. You know, chucking it down with rain, what can you
Sarah Naylor: do instead? Or if it's there's always there's always a positive. Always look for
Sarah Naylor: the positive. That's that's me. Yeah. Before our
Joanne Lockwood: our financial reboot about 7 or 8 years ago, we
Joanne Lockwood: used to own a an apartment on the water's edge near Portsmouth. And
Joanne Lockwood: so we we overlooked Porters' Castle, and it had a big bay
Joanne Lockwood: in front of it. And I remember we used to sort of stand on our
Joanne Lockwood: balcony, And then when it was really, really windy, you could watch the
Joanne Lockwood: seagulls flying backwards because they they just couldn't their air speed
Joanne Lockwood: their grass speed was just basically pushed back by the wind. And but sometimes
Joanne Lockwood: you'd stand there in a thunderstorm, a really torrential rain. And the way
Joanne Lockwood: that the building was constructed, the rain used to stop, like,
Joanne Lockwood: right on the edge of the balcony. So you'd end up with sheets of rain
Joanne Lockwood: coming down in front of it, and you'd stand one step back. I've been behind
Joanne Lockwood: a waterfall. As you can watch this rain, you can watch the
Joanne Lockwood: weather, and but it but in the in a sort of relative safety of being
Joanne Lockwood: back far enough. And I I used to love that, being in touch
Joanne Lockwood: with nature Mhmm. And being able to touch it, if you like, without
Joanne Lockwood: being in it. And the other thing I loved about it was,
Joanne Lockwood: and I'm sure people who live in the countryside or other places realize this, we
Joanne Lockwood: we your horizon is literally miles away,
Joanne Lockwood: whereas most people's horizons in their backyard is their fence or the
Joanne Lockwood: shed or another house or something. But living in a property where the
Joanne Lockwood: horizon was literally miles away, and you could see
Joanne Lockwood: out and the boats and the so, yeah, it was like
Joanne Lockwood: a a screensaver. Every day, it's going on. People digging for bait
Joanne Lockwood: or the trawlers or Oh, wow. Super yachts coming into the marina, that
Joanne Lockwood: kind of stuff. So, yeah, it's a it's a lovely place to just be in
Joanne Lockwood: touch with stuff happening. Yes.
Joanne Lockwood: Entertainment. Yeah. It's it's it's amazing. Do you know what's just popped into
Sarah Naylor: my head right now as well? That Joni Mitchell song put up put up a
Sarah Naylor: parking lot. You know, they and it is it's the paved paradise and
Sarah Naylor: put up a parking lot. And it's it's it's just it's mad, isn't it? And
Sarah Naylor: that's exactly what we've been doing to the world. And it we've got all this
Sarah Naylor: beauty around us, and it's all too quick to to
Sarah Naylor: to pave over it or put Tom, I Joanne and and, oh,
Sarah Naylor: don't get me on fake grass. It's like, no.
Sarah Naylor: Jesus. No. And, actually, I was listening to the,
Sarah Naylor: news on the was it today or yesterday on the radio? And they were talking
Sarah Naylor: about, you know, obviously, all the environmental issues. And I think the Thames Water, they
Sarah Naylor: were talking about who the the shareholders. The shareholders have probably taken off
Sarah Naylor: low 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 of pounds don't want to invest any money into
Sarah Naylor: it unless they put up the the bills to the local
Sarah Naylor: residents by 40%. It's just absolutely
Sarah Naylor: outrageous. Anyway, that's that aside, there was somebody that was
Sarah Naylor: talking and said that we've got to stop paving over things
Sarah Naylor: because when we pave over things that we can't
Sarah Naylor: the ground's not absorbing all the rain. This is why there's all the issues because
Sarah Naylor: it we need the ground and that all these new builds,
Sarah Naylor: it's causing chaos everywhere because the ground's bit you know, all that sort
Sarah Naylor: of soakaway area is gone. And we then pave over it, and
Sarah Naylor: there's nowhere for the water to go. Yeah. Speaking of I think it's Thames Water.
Joanne Lockwood: The, about the boat race this weekend. They're talking about then not
Joanne Lockwood: throwing the cocks in the water because of all the e coli that's, in
Joanne Lockwood: this Yeah. In terms of and you were talking about these
Joanne Lockwood: microorganisms in the water. And, yeah, I I said, I was gonna
Joanne Lockwood: tell you last night. They had someone at a at a a beaker full of
Joanne Lockwood: water. So there'd be billions of these E. Coli bacteria in this water. I
Joanne Lockwood: said, blimey. That's a yeah. So don't don't, and then went to you in
Joanne Lockwood: the crew afterwards and said, are you worried about E Coli? And I said,
Joanne Lockwood: oh, in the moment, we'll just dive in, and we'll be fine.
Sarah Naylor: Yeah. But you know what? I think we've also lived in too
Sarah Naylor: much of a sanitized
Sarah Naylor: world as well. There's been this sort of, oh, no. We can't have bugs. We've
Sarah Naylor: got to sanitize everything. Well, we we need to
Sarah Naylor: build up that resilience. We need to have kids have dirt in their
Sarah Naylor: fingernails and stick it in their mouth and get it's all part of our
Sarah Naylor: bodies building up antibodies and being able to cope and survive. You
Sarah Naylor: you just, you know, sort of sanitizing everything. We
Sarah Naylor: we we don't live in that kind of world, do we? You know? And I
Sarah Naylor: wouldn't want to live in a hermetically sealed world. Like, you were just talking about
Sarah Naylor: other people in the car. I was just sitting there going, you can't see me,
Sarah Naylor: actually. I was just pulling a face. Oh, really?
Sarah Naylor: Driving along. Sarah holding the steering wheel, putting us like a
Joanne Lockwood: a a a goofy face. Yeah. That's that's that's the impression of people on the
Joanne Lockwood: n 25 in their car with the windows up. Well yeah. Exactly. No. And have
Sarah Naylor: you seen how many people grimace when they're driving as well and don't care about
Sarah Naylor: other drivers? And the craziness of drivers as well is just like, oh
Sarah Naylor: my patience, people. But people are sort of
Sarah Naylor: rushed to get places for some bizarre reason. You know? We're not not saying
Sarah Naylor: that I I don't like to get to places from time to time. But it's
Sarah Naylor: just like if you're stuck in traffic, it's like, do you know what?
Sarah Naylor: Clearly wasn't meant to be. It it's meant to be. Something's
Sarah Naylor: holding me back from getting to where I think I want to be at
Sarah Naylor: that particular point, but it's holding me back for a reason. And it's
Sarah Naylor: understanding that and accepting that that, you know, we'll get there. Oh,
Joanne Lockwood: the news has been a story about this, this
Joanne Lockwood: shopkeeper who bought Easter eggs. And instead of buying a
Joanne Lockwood: box, he bought a 100 boxes or something. So, you know, he's he's
Joanne Lockwood: now shipping all over the world. And, well, I think we've we've all probably got
Joanne Lockwood: a story about how we we want to order some bananas on our
Joanne Lockwood: Internet shopping. And instead of ordering a bunch, we end up with,
Joanne Lockwood: 10 bunches or a 100 bunches or something. Now we we've been there as well.
Joanne Lockwood: The the test goes past on the doorstep with a a box full of bananas
Joanne Lockwood: going, did you really order these? No. We didn't. No. We didn't. Just the one,
Joanne Lockwood: please. We had the best bet. Anyway, over over COVID, my my
Joanne Lockwood: wife, Marie, she, she did this with the hand sanitizer.
Joanne Lockwood: She she didn't send it back. So we end up with crates of
Joanne Lockwood: hand sanitizer everywhere. And, it took a while for
Joanne Lockwood: Marie to stop being addicted.
Joanne Lockwood: I'm used that word addicted to sanitization,
Joanne Lockwood: where she felt the need to always be rubbing hand
Joanne Lockwood: sanitizer into her hands, making sure that the the the soap we had on
Joanne Lockwood: the sink and the bathrooms were all antibacterial. And we we go
Joanne Lockwood: out shopping, and she would zigzag around shops to the
Joanne Lockwood: hand sanitizer stations throughout the shops and having a every time she says, I
Joanne Lockwood: have to do it. I have to do it. And it took her a long
Joanne Lockwood: while to get used to the idea that she she could exist in
Joanne Lockwood: the world naturally without having to sanitize.
Joanne Lockwood: And it's we do. We get caught up in this. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: Overprotectionism, I maybe. Yes. No. But but,
Sarah Naylor: again, it's this external pressure, isn't it? I mean, I,
Sarah Naylor: yeah, I mean, it's a long time back now, but with all the
Sarah Naylor: the inoculations and the jabs and things like that, I generally
Sarah Naylor: didn't want to have them. And I didn't you know, working from home, and I
Sarah Naylor: wasn't socialized. I didn't really see I don't want to put all this stuff into
Sarah Naylor: my body. I really don't. I mean, let's face it. How long it takes them
Sarah Naylor: to usually test things and it suddenly they've got they've got a solution.
Sarah Naylor: Don't think so. Anyway, that's going back into the into that
Sarah Naylor: time, but the reason I did was because I've got my parents in the races,
Sarah Naylor: and they're all they're they're inoculating, and I needed to be able to see them.
Sarah Naylor: My dad had been in a care home at the time because he'd had a
Sarah Naylor: stroke, and there's all this sort of stuff going on. So I sort of
Sarah Naylor: had to go with the flow, but it I
Sarah Naylor: how good was it? How much did it I don't know. This this
Sarah Naylor: you don't really know what you've put into your body, do you? A lot of
Sarah Naylor: heavy metals and things like that, and you've got to be really mindful when you
Sarah Naylor: come back down to the sanitizer. All of this stuff that you're putting onto your
Sarah Naylor: hands gets absorbed in through your skin, into your bones. And what are what are
Sarah Naylor: we what are we doing to ourselves? You know? You've gotta be really careful with
Sarah Naylor: all not what I say. You have. But I use body
Sarah Naylor: lotion all the time, but it it is on my mind when I'm using body
Sarah Naylor: lotion and deodorants that it's keeping my epidermis
Sarah Naylor: nice and smooth, but actually, what's happening
Sarah Naylor: what's happening to my body overall? You
Sarah Naylor: know? What am I what am I actually putting on? How is it getting absorbed?
Sarah Naylor: Really ought to have something much more natural because when you look at the ingredients
Sarah Naylor: on all these products, there's there's all I think there's a whole
Sarah Naylor: whole issue of health. In fact, there's a but that's going off in another subject
Sarah Naylor: matter altogether about food. We The Plant Paradox by doctor Stephen
Sarah Naylor: Gundry is a very interesting book about how ailments
Sarah Naylor: have increased in line with
Sarah Naylor: food production and what people eat, particularly, obviously, this is in the States.
Sarah Naylor: And it's it's really interesting, the whole sort
Sarah Naylor: of foods that we eat that aren't good for our body and the reason they're
Sarah Naylor: not and how you Joanne change them so that when you do eat them, your
Sarah Naylor: body's not rejecting them and which is what why how you end up
Sarah Naylor: ill. And then the same thing comes about what we're putting on our bodies and
Sarah Naylor: all the things and all the products all around us have got. Are treated with
Sarah Naylor: this. They're treated with that, and we're we're breathing it all in, which is why
Sarah Naylor: when then you've got your roof off and you're out in nature, you feel so
Sarah Naylor: much better because you're not not breathing in all that rubbish.
Sarah Naylor: Apart from when you're off you've got your roof off in the m 25 and
Sarah Naylor: you're next to a, an Arctic pumping out some diesel, I guess, that's a little
Sarah Naylor: bit different. But the the convenience food industry
Joanne Lockwood: has, has become and I'm I'm this could sound like a really crazy way of
Joanne Lockwood: saying it. Convenience food industry is convenient, and it's
Joanne Lockwood: it's actually hard sometimes to to have
Joanne Lockwood: healthier options to do different because we're so
Joanne Lockwood: we're so ingrained now to click on it, shop on
Joanne Lockwood: it, scan it, put it in our baskets. To actually
Joanne Lockwood: start cooking from scratch is hard
Joanne Lockwood: is much harder. My mom said It is. That it is. If you
Sarah Naylor: tell yourself that story and that dialogue, and that's what the food production companies
Sarah Naylor: want because that's what they've marketed right from the I mean, I remember having
Sarah Naylor: the the Vesta meals back in the seventies. That was,
Sarah Naylor: like, the first curry that came out. But I was very lucky both of my
Sarah Naylor: parents both cooked. Actually, when I left home, I hadn't I didn't need to
Sarah Naylor: cook. My dad always used to cook really nice Chinese Joanne in
Sarah Naylor: curries. My mom had done cooking, and she all our meals were
Sarah Naylor: all cooked from scratch. And my Joanne obviously cooked, and that's historical.
Sarah Naylor: Then I had to learn to cook, and I enjoy cooking. Yeah.
Sarah Naylor: I really do. I end up getting too busy with doing other things. I
Sarah Naylor: go, oh, I need and sometimes, like this week,
Sarah Naylor: hands up, we had we had chips in the car in
Sarah Naylor: Hunstanton the other night because we'd been spent all day decorating. Then we'd
Sarah Naylor: been out to pick something up that else we'd seen on Facebook Marketplace. And we
Sarah Naylor: just got to the chip shop in time. These chips and fish cake were just
Sarah Naylor: amazing. Following day, similar sort of scenario,
Sarah Naylor: and we ended up going to Tesco's and getting a meal deal. Other supermarkets
Sarah Naylor: are available. And, it was just it was just
Sarah Naylor: easy. But last night, I cooked I I grated up some couple of
Sarah Naylor: courgettes, zested a lemon, squeezed the lemon,
Sarah Naylor: chopped up some garlic, and pan fried the
Sarah Naylor: pan fried the courgette with the garlic, with
Sarah Naylor: some chili seeds, and then put in some raw king
Sarah Naylor: prawns, cook them up, and at the same time, cook some pasta, then mix the
Sarah Naylor: 2 together really quick, really easy, and far much far healthier
Sarah Naylor: than the previous 2 nights meals. And
Sarah Naylor: diet and your health and nutrition is very much on my agenda.
Sarah Naylor: Because I I do enjoy cooking, but I've just it's about putting boundaries in
Sarah Naylor: place. It's about going, do you know what? No. I need to stop at
Sarah Naylor: this point of the day, and the you know, I want to cook. I want
Sarah Naylor: to eat nice meals. Did porridge for breakfast this morning with chia seeds and with
Sarah Naylor: a, chopped up chopped up pear, some
Sarah Naylor: grate some broken up walnuts, and some raspberries on top.
Sarah Naylor: But I made the porridge with water, so it was, you know, you've not got
Sarah Naylor: the fat from the milk either. That's lovely. I should come around one day, probably.
Sarah Naylor: Come around. Come around. We'll we'll go we'll go for we'll go for a walk
Sarah Naylor: through the woods and down across the across the nature reserve to the beach,
Sarah Naylor: which is very nice. Fantastic. I know. It's, It's it's lovely. I love that sort
Joanne Lockwood: of thing. I mean, my wife and I, Mary, we're we kind of
Joanne Lockwood: our kind of exercise hobby is is Natural Trust
Joanne Lockwood: houses and things. So we Oh, lovely. We love we love going for water around
Joanne Lockwood: National Trust and just enjoy sitting in someone else's garden sometimes. You know, it's nice
Joanne Lockwood: to sit in a garden, watch the world go by, have a wander around by
Joanne Lockwood: the stream. You know, imagine you're a 19th
Joanne Lockwood: century lord or ladies wandering around these places. It's, yeah, it's it's nice.
Joanne Lockwood: And, Well, if you come up if you come up to see we are only
Sarah Naylor: 3 miles from Sandringham, so you can go you can go very upmarket,
Sarah Naylor: darling. Hey. Terrific. Absolutely. Yes.
Sarah Naylor: Have have you ever watched The Windsors, the com the comedy series The Windsors?
Joanne Lockwood: No. Never seen that one. We've done The Crown or those sort of, but never
Sarah Naylor: Watch watch The Windsors. Harry Enfield stars. And
Sarah Naylor: it's so, so, so funny. But there's a sketch or in fact, if you can
Sarah Naylor: if you hit YouTube, you could probably pick up a bit of it in there.
Sarah Naylor: It's Harry Enfield plays king Charles as he was
Sarah Naylor: Prince Charles when it was obviously all filmed. And it's the
Sarah Naylor: the the the the shop effectively. It just makes me happy
Sarah Naylor: because when we go to the shop at Sandringham, it's like, how much?
Sarah Naylor: How much? But in this in this sketch, the the lady the the shop
Sarah Naylor: assistant, she's like, falling over him, like, oh, but you can add lots of extra
Sarah Naylor: naughts because people buy it because it's you. It's yours, and it's just
Sarah Naylor: like it's almost like it's a parody on the reality, and it's
Sarah Naylor: just really funny. It's really funny. And the and the girls that play Beatrice and
Sarah Naylor: Eugenie are hilarious. Watch it. You you will love it. You will love it. It's
Sarah Naylor: really, really, really funny. Yeah. You're so right. Because some of these places,
Joanne Lockwood: they do add the x 0 on because that's that's the market. And
Joanne Lockwood: the other argument is if you're not charging too much, then people
Joanne Lockwood: wonder why it's not why you're not, or they don't see the value in it
Joanne Lockwood: because, oh, hang on a minute. I couldn't possibly spend £10 on a
Joanne Lockwood: scarf unless it's Hermes and it's £200. How can it be any
Joanne Lockwood: good? You sometimes gotta you've got sometimes gotta price it to the
Joanne Lockwood: to the shop, haven't you, as well? Oh, it's it's mad, folks. I mean, when
Sarah Naylor: you start to think about what things actually are, what you end up
Sarah Naylor: paying for is you're paying for the marketing. You're paying for the marketeers
Sarah Naylor: to tell you that you need to buy this product. That's what's so ridiculous. Yeah.
Sarah Naylor: Yes. I I understand. I mean, some products are clearly
Sarah Naylor: much better quality than other products. Totally get that. And then you
Sarah Naylor: are paying for the for the quality, and I would rather
Sarah Naylor: have the quality than something that's gonna fall apart
Sarah Naylor: because, yeah, there's a there is a great difference, but sometimes you Jo,
Sarah Naylor: really? I picked up a wooden coaster, I mean, a wooden coaster, and
Sarah Naylor: it got a picture of Sandringham House in the middle of it. How much do
Sarah Naylor: you think Lockwood just a single wooden coaster with a picture of Sandringham
Sarah Naylor: House sort of effectively etched in the middle of it? 20
Joanne Lockwood: quid. Something like that. Yeah. It's just Yeah. What?
Sarah Naylor: What? No. Yeah.
Sarah Naylor: Tea towel. Was it just like 20 quid for a tea was was it 20
Sarah Naylor: quid? Might even be more. Involved in in some human craftsmanship. You can't
Joanne Lockwood: understand valuing someone's time. If it's if it's mass produced
Joanne Lockwood: or off a machine, it it's literally you're paying for
Joanne Lockwood: copyright or, as you say, marketing or branding or just
Joanne Lockwood: being in the being in the right place at the right time. Oh, I know.
Sarah Naylor: It's just it's it's it's bonkers. And I I I mean, yeah, I mean, I
Sarah Naylor: like certain I don't know. Anyway, I've I've discovered
Sarah Naylor: vinted now. Anyway, I'm a bit of a vinted addict.
Sarah Naylor: So it's a great way of repurposing getting quality items that have cost
Sarah Naylor: at a a reduced price. And you're freed up to
Sarah Naylor: if you really do want to go and spend big money on things, you can
Sarah Naylor: do. I really shouldn't have spent you know, bought a latex dress the other day,
Sarah Naylor: but hey ho, it's very nice. Yeah. But you've got an
Joanne Lockwood: Instagram jacket. Jeans though, Jeff. I need new jeans. Yeah.
Sarah Naylor: I'll be more I'll have more time opportunities to wear a pair of jeans I
Sarah Naylor: could have bought when 3 pairs of mine are ditched.
Sarah Naylor: Latex dress. Yeah. But latex dress is is like business. It's
Joanne Lockwood: not just pleasure. It's it's business, right, your it's part of your your channel,
Joanne Lockwood: your followers. It is. It is. And watch out. I will be I will be,
Sarah Naylor: launching out as the leadership and latex speaker at some point this year. I'm
Sarah Naylor: looking forward to, getting a keynote delivered in that area about
Sarah Naylor: all the things we've been talking about, you know, about being yourself and embracing
Sarah Naylor: yourself. Latex dress, I I hope. Well, I thought it's translucent,
Sarah Naylor: maybe not.
Sarah Naylor: Big pants underneath. I'll be alright. Big
Joanne Lockwood: pants. Nip into mouth, then go and get myself a pants.
Sarah Naylor: Is that the brand you're looking for? Latex dress and big
Joanne Lockwood: pants? It's like Yeah. Because it's a it's a winner.
Joanne Lockwood: It's a winner. Just maybe just try
Joanne Lockwood: another Instagram channel. Yep. Big Joanne and latex or something. Well,
Sarah Naylor: do you know what? It's probably a thing. It's probably a thing. It's,
Sarah Naylor: they maybe fishnets in the dress and a pair of pleaser boots. There we go.
Sarah Naylor: How about that? Have you seen
Sarah Naylor: pleaser boots? You know what they look like? Go on and describe it for the
Sarah Naylor: They're huge. They're they're a bit like the stripper heels you can get them.
Sarah Naylor: They're massive. They've got, like, about, I don't know, almost, like, 10
Sarah Naylor: inch heels on them, but they've got platforms. But the fact that they're a boot
Sarah Naylor: and they lace up on your feet, so you Joanne Kinky boot type. Like a
Joanne Lockwood: kinky boot? Yeah. A bit like that. But they've got I've got a pair in
Sarah Naylor: red and a pair in purple. I I would like some more. I do covet
Sarah Naylor: some more. But You don't wear them when you're out for a walk
Joanne Lockwood: or a jog? No. No. We wear wear them
Sarah Naylor: well. We have we have done latex shoot on the beach. We did it about
Sarah Naylor: naught degrees in January. It was very liberating and very invigorating
Sarah Naylor: and very bracing all at the same time because when you're wearing latex and it's
Sarah Naylor: cold, you might as well not be wearing anything. Yeah. I can I can
Joanne Lockwood: imagine it's it's it's probably okay for
Joanne Lockwood: wind protection, but not very much good for for insulation, though, is it?
Sarah Naylor: No insulation at all. No. It's it's I mean, it just goes cold. But on
Sarah Naylor: a hot day when you're wearing it, it it sort of attack it it changes
Sarah Naylor: to your body temperature. Jo, yeah, you can get
Sarah Naylor: invariably, when I've if if we've taken some photographs at home and it's the heating's
Sarah Naylor: been on and oh my god. So
Sarah Naylor: are you? It's just like
Sarah Naylor: dripping is all I can say. It's just Jo you you use lots of
Joanne Lockwood: talcum powder, presumably. Well, it's a dressing aid. You can it depends on the
Sarah Naylor: item. Sometimes I wear used, talcum, other times, dressing aid. So you
Sarah Naylor: have a special dressing and then obviously polish it all as well, and it looks
Sarah Naylor: shiny. Shiny shiny.
Joanne Lockwood: I'm I'm I'm so curious. I haven't checked your Instagram account, but I'll but I'm
Joanne Lockwood: definitely gonna be, pretty sure. You've got your phone to hand, Jo? I
Joanne Lockwood: yeah. I have. Yes. Let me let me I did tell you what it was
Sarah Naylor: called. You could have a look at it now, and then and let the listeners
Sarah Naylor: all hear you're you're Right. So there's
Joanne Lockwood: our IG. Okay. We're gonna go Lucy Yeah.
Sarah Naylor: L u c y. Latex. Lucy loves. Lucy loves
Joanne Lockwood: latex. Yeah. There you go.
Sarah Naylor: Joanne's looking very That you? Intently
Sarah Naylor: at the screen. That's that's not you that's not you though, is it? No. That's
Sarah Naylor: not me. Oh. That's somebody else who does latex. There's some Oh, there's a
Joanne Lockwood: similar account. Okay. I've I've found There are people that steal my
Sarah Naylor: stuff and put it on Twitter and, say, Facebook underneath other people's
Sarah Naylor: names. I keep on having to report things and have it taken down. It's horrible.
Sarah Naylor: People steal your content, and it's just that. Have you found me?
Sarah Naylor: Yes. That's me. Oh, I see. So you've got the,
Joanne Lockwood: burgundy latex dress? Yep. Rubber closet. Pleaser
Joanne Lockwood: boots, are they? They are. Pleaser boots, are they? Yeah. Indeed. I was gonna say
Joanne Lockwood: I recognize your glasses, but they're not even the same glasses. No. I've got pink
Sarah Naylor: ones on in that photo. Yeah. Of course. I did have those on earlier when
Sarah Naylor: I went running because they're lighter weight. Right. Well, there we go. I mean, for
Joanne Lockwood: anyone who's, who's listening and you can't see these, I I
Joanne Lockwood: recommend you it's Lucy loves latex. Thank you so
Sarah Naylor: much. Yeah. Now the world knows. Woo hoo. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: And, we're not we're not we're not afraid to tell
Joanne Lockwood: people. You know, we we've we've we've lost that inhibition to hold that back. And
Sarah Naylor: Exactly. I guess that's the message, isn't it? Yeah. Kinks and all. Be yourself. Just
Sarah Naylor: step out. Be yourself. I mean, what's the worst that can happen? I was actually,
Sarah Naylor: approached last year by a journalist, and we had a a double page
Sarah Naylor: spread in a double page spread in a magazine. That's
Sarah Naylor: life.
Sarah Naylor: Oh, it's just it's fun. Honestly, is is it hurting anybody? No.
Sarah Naylor: Do we look good? Yeah. Hell yeah. Do we have
Sarah Naylor: fun? Loads of it. Do we do it all the time? No.
Sarah Naylor: But does it give us enjoyment? Yes. So do stuff,
Sarah Naylor: folks, that brings you joy, brings you happiness.
Sarah Naylor: It doesn't hurt anybody if you're not doing something deliberately to hurt anybody else.
Sarah Naylor: You know, do it. Do it. Be happy. Be in flow.
Sarah Naylor: Get have fun and laugh a lot. That's what I'd say.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. This this this one here's got a 100 and was it 10,
Joanne Lockwood: 20,000 views watches. Yeah. So Oh, one of my oh, one
Sarah Naylor: of mine's had 10,000,000 views. 10,000,000? Wow. 10,000,000
Sarah Naylor: views. And another one's had 2,000,000. The more recently, I think
Sarah Naylor: they've been the Instagram haven't been sharing latex cleft content.
Sarah Naylor: A lot of the people I know who who wear latex and have got latex
Sarah Naylor: channels on there, their their content's not been shared
Sarah Naylor: beyond their followers, but what why I don't know. However, it is
Sarah Naylor: what it is. But, again, I've had to get out of my own way on
Sarah Naylor: that front because, actually, we do it because we have fun doing it. We enjoy
Sarah Naylor: doing it. Jo, therefore, don't worry about the
Sarah Naylor: volume of followers, although I think there's about 62,000 on there at the moment. But
Sarah Naylor: Yeah. It's just a lot bit of lighthearted fun.
Joanne Lockwood: For sure. So, that's your I was gonna say your alter ego, but that's that's
Joanne Lockwood: that's not alter ego. It's just part of your ego. Yeah. Exactly. What are the
Joanne Lockwood: other what what what are the other parts yeah. The other quadrants of of who
Joanne Lockwood: you are? How do people get a hold of you? Gosh. Well, I'm I'm all
Sarah Naylor: sorts of everything. So you can find me over on LinkedIn, Sarah Jo Naylor,
Sarah Naylor: and you can find me on Insight Timer as Sarah j Naylor. I'm on YouTube
Sarah Naylor: as Sarah j Naylor. I'm and I'm actually now known as the
Sarah Naylor: Norfolk Coastal Coach. I've recreated a brand that do walk and talk
Sarah Naylor: coaching along the seafront, and I've added that. So
Sarah Naylor: that is my I've got a website that is north the Norfolk Coastal Coach
Sarah Naylor: dotco shall I start again? The Norfolk Coastal Coach
Sarah Naylor: dotco.uk, which takes you over to my Sarah Jo Naylor dot com
Sarah Naylor: website. So you can find out all about me on there. I've written a
Sarah Naylor: book, how to man shining a light on you, how to manifest your dream job,
Sarah Naylor: which has also turned into a digital course.
Sarah Naylor: And what else have I I've got this I keep this stuff that I've done.
Sarah Naylor: I forget that I've done because I've got, oh, my podcast. You see? Harnessing
Sarah Naylor: Happiness with Sarah j Taylor, which is on pause at the moment, but it's
Sarah Naylor: been downloaded 40 2,000 times in over a 130 countries. It's a
Sarah Naylor: 155 episodes out there, so you can access that as
Sarah Naylor: well. And, yeah, I'm generally if you just put
Sarah Naylor: Sarah Jo Naylor or the Norfolk Coastal Coach into, into the search
Sarah Naylor: engine, you're guaranteed to find me. And if you really would like to go and
Sarah Naylor: have a look at Lucy Loves Latex, you'll find me over there as as
Joanne Lockwood: well. And it even looks like you. So yeah. It does. That's a that that
Joanne Lockwood: would be authentic. Yeah. And if you see anybody who looks like me and hasn't
Sarah Naylor: got Lucy Loves Latex, it's not it's somebody else stealing my content.
Joanne Lockwood: Yes. Exactly. There's a lot of people that take it and steal it, and,
Sarah Naylor: there's somebody on Facebook that's purporting to be me. There's somebody on X,
Sarah Naylor: which is obviously Twitter, purporting to be me, and they're not. So
Sarah Naylor: if it if you if you question it, you'll know it's me because it's
Sarah Naylor: me. If it's question mark Lucy loves latex,
Joanne Lockwood: not these imposters. No. Exactly. Exactly.
Sarah Naylor: But, otherwise, I'm Sarah Jo Naylor or the Norfolk ghost dog
Sarah Naylor: coach. Yes. And that was impersonating Sarah Jo Nayler.
Joanne Lockwood: Just No. I am me. I am well, do you know what?
Sarah Naylor: The the the frustrating thing is is that it's conning other people, but then if
Sarah Naylor: people are allowing themselves to be conned,
Sarah Naylor: you can't fight other people's battles for them because I could
Sarah Naylor: spend a huge amount of time trying to battle it all. And and what would
Sarah Naylor: happen is somebody else would pop up doing something else. So I
Sarah Naylor: just get on and do my thing and do what I can when I can,
Sarah Naylor: but I'm not going to spend hours and hours and hours. That's not
Sarah Naylor: my it's not my fight. Incredible. Thank you so much. For those who are
Joanne Lockwood: listening, you've got the details. You know where to contact
Joanne Lockwood: Sarah Jo Naylor or Lucy Loves Latex if you wish.
Joanne Lockwood: So thank you. Amazing. That's brilliant.
Sarah Naylor: I loved it. It's been absolute joy. My pleasure. Thank you so much for
Sarah Naylor: having me as a guest. As we bring this
Joanne Lockwood: conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest
Joanne Lockwood: gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your
Joanne Lockwood: ear and heart to the cause of inclusion.
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Joanne Lockwood: Until next time. This is Joanne Lockwood signing off
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