WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.600 --> 00:00:10.985 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your 2 00:00:10.985 --> 00:00:14.585 sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm 3 00:00:14.585 --> 00:00:18.240 Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into 4 00:00:18.240 --> 00:00:21.860 the heart of inclusion, belonging, and societal 5 00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:25.985 transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a 6 00:00:25.985 --> 00:00:29.345 world where everyone not only belongs but 7 00:00:29.345 --> 00:00:33.130 thrives? You're not alone. Join me as we 8 00:00:33.130 --> 00:00:36.430 uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo, 9 00:00:36.890 --> 00:00:40.375 and share stories that resonate deep within. 10 00:00:40.594 --> 00:00:44.135 Ready to dive in. Whether you're sipping your morning coffee 11 00:00:44.355 --> 00:00:47.094 or winding down after a long day, let's connect, 12 00:00:47.720 --> 00:00:51.560 reflect, and inspire action together. Don't 13 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:55.195 forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out 14 00:00:55.195 --> 00:00:56.175 to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 15 00:00:59.355 --> 00:01:02.975 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 16 00:01:03.770 --> 00:01:07.530 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 17 00:01:07.530 --> 00:01:11.070 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 18 00:01:16.235 --> 00:01:20.075 And today is episode 131 with the 19 00:01:20.075 --> 00:01:23.860 title Fluency Forward, and I have the 20 00:01:23.860 --> 00:01:27.479 absolute honor and privilege to welcome Caroline Praveen. 21 00:01:28.340 --> 00:01:29.960 Caroline is the founder 22 00:01:38.720 --> 00:01:42.340 Fluency Forward Foundation, lots of f's in that, that promotes education 23 00:01:42.880 --> 00:01:46.325 in underprivileged areas of the world. And when I asked 24 00:01:46.325 --> 00:01:50.024 Caroline to describe her superbowl, she said it is her relentless 25 00:01:50.405 --> 00:01:53.865 advocacy in her dedication to improving lives 26 00:01:54.530 --> 00:01:58.230 and her unwavering commitment to positive change. 27 00:01:58.770 --> 00:02:02.370 Hello, Caroline. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Jo. It's glad to be 28 00:02:02.370 --> 00:02:06.135 here. Excellent. And you've got a lot of f's in Fluency 29 00:02:06.135 --> 00:02:08.634 Forward Foundation, don't you? I do. It's not so fluent. 30 00:02:10.455 --> 00:02:13.930 Excellent. So, Caroline, tell me more about fluency 31 00:02:13.930 --> 00:02:17.610 forward and what that means to you. Yeah. So that's an 32 00:02:17.610 --> 00:02:21.285 organization that I started about a year ago just based 33 00:02:21.285 --> 00:02:25.045 off of my own experiences and kind of my 34 00:02:25.045 --> 00:02:28.520 desire to make a change for the people that I know are 35 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:31.500 experiencing the same thing that I've gone through. 36 00:02:32.040 --> 00:02:35.864 And right now, my efforts are kind of twofold. For 1, it 37 00:02:35.864 --> 00:02:39.004 focuses on working with local 38 00:02:39.305 --> 00:02:42.845 immigrant and refugee refugee children in Pittsburgh. 39 00:02:43.610 --> 00:02:46.990 These children are from, like, Afghanistan, Syria, 40 00:02:47.690 --> 00:02:50.670 the the Congo, Venezuela. There's so many countries, 41 00:02:51.285 --> 00:02:54.665 and they've all come here just looking for a better life, 42 00:02:55.125 --> 00:02:58.665 but are currently confined to a more disadvantaged 43 00:02:58.805 --> 00:03:02.480 community. And right now, I'm kind of just helping them 44 00:03:02.540 --> 00:03:06.380 with their English language skills and also helping 45 00:03:06.380 --> 00:03:09.945 them to appreciate their culture while also 46 00:03:09.945 --> 00:03:13.785 learning about those of their neighbors. And the other thing that I'm 47 00:03:13.785 --> 00:03:17.540 doing is I am raising money to promote education. So 48 00:03:17.540 --> 00:03:20.680 one of the more notable things I've done recently is I've 49 00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:24.485 hosted this fundraiser where I kind of 50 00:03:24.485 --> 00:03:28.245 promoted it as a cultural kind of event, and I 51 00:03:28.245 --> 00:03:31.785 had more than 200 attendees. We raised about $4,000. 52 00:03:32.405 --> 00:03:36.100 We had 3 sponsoring organizations. We showed up in the news. It was a 53 00:03:36.100 --> 00:03:39.620 really great time, and we donated all the profits to 54 00:03:39.620 --> 00:03:43.215 another NGO that donates the money to 55 00:03:43.675 --> 00:03:47.435 children in rural India. That's fascinating. You said 56 00:03:47.435 --> 00:03:50.815 at the beginning there that, you wanted to help people to overcome 57 00:03:51.260 --> 00:03:54.540 some of the challenges you'd faced yourself. Do you wanna talk a bit more more 58 00:03:54.540 --> 00:03:58.240 about to the listeners around the challenges, who you are, 59 00:03:58.695 --> 00:04:02.375 your background, and some of the the you know, you obviously had to overcome some 60 00:04:02.375 --> 00:04:05.580 challenges. So what what those in particular? Yeah. Of course. 61 00:04:05.900 --> 00:04:09.520 So I am from India. I was born there, and 62 00:04:09.900 --> 00:04:12.880 my parents moved here to the United States with 63 00:04:13.365 --> 00:04:17.204 the kind of goal of creating a better life for myself and my 64 00:04:17.204 --> 00:04:20.264 brothers in terms of education and just opportunities in general. 65 00:04:20.820 --> 00:04:24.280 So we came here when I was pretty young, but 66 00:04:24.660 --> 00:04:28.260 I didn't have an amazing grasp of English at all. 67 00:04:28.260 --> 00:04:32.005 And once I started going into school, I kinda just shut 68 00:04:32.005 --> 00:04:35.764 down. I was pretty much I was a very confident kid 69 00:04:35.764 --> 00:04:39.370 in my native language, which is Malayalam, a South Indian language. 70 00:04:39.750 --> 00:04:43.510 But once I kind of transitioned to English, I just kind of 71 00:04:43.510 --> 00:04:47.295 lost all aspects of my personality and wouldn't ask 72 00:04:47.295 --> 00:04:50.835 anyone for help, wouldn't reach out to anyone. And that really affected me 73 00:04:51.215 --> 00:04:54.915 not just academically, but socially and internally. So 74 00:04:55.150 --> 00:04:58.750 as a kid that can't connect with the classmates sitting right next to 75 00:04:58.750 --> 00:05:02.190 her, I really just struggled to kind of like 76 00:05:02.190 --> 00:05:05.525 myself and be happy with myself. And I think 77 00:05:06.064 --> 00:05:09.824 the biggest issue there is that there was no kind of, 78 00:05:09.824 --> 00:05:13.660 like, miracle for that. There was nothing that saved the day and made 79 00:05:13.660 --> 00:05:17.180 everyone accept me or made me extremely 80 00:05:17.180 --> 00:05:20.455 fluent very fast. It was kind of just I had to deal with it. I 81 00:05:20.455 --> 00:05:24.055 had to spend a long time kind of perfecting my English, and from 82 00:05:24.055 --> 00:05:27.490 there, it just improved. May I ask what age you moved to the US? 83 00:05:28.690 --> 00:05:32.449 I came here so, essentially, I started schooling 84 00:05:32.449 --> 00:05:36.105 and started to truly learn English around 5. Around 5. 85 00:05:36.105 --> 00:05:39.805 Okay. Because your accent sounds typically 86 00:05:39.865 --> 00:05:43.544 American to me. It it you you obviously acquired English at a 87 00:05:43.544 --> 00:05:47.210 very young age. Mhmm. So you're very you're extremely fluent. 88 00:05:47.750 --> 00:05:51.510 I guess that comes from living living in the country for a long time 89 00:05:51.510 --> 00:05:55.264 now. So you yeah. You you've grown up with it. What what were the biggest 90 00:05:55.264 --> 00:05:58.705 challenges you found? I mean, you talked about your your lack of self 91 00:05:58.705 --> 00:06:02.509 confidence because you're obviously nervous about pronunciation. You 92 00:06:02.509 --> 00:06:05.789 have to double translate in your head. Your whole mind is 93 00:06:06.110 --> 00:06:09.944 yep. You can't dedicate your mind to your personality. You 94 00:06:09.944 --> 00:06:13.164 have to dedicate your mind to the translation. So how how did that 95 00:06:13.465 --> 00:06:17.164 manifest itself? You know, you said you you were you lost confidence. 96 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:20.620 How did you find a way to regain that over that? 97 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:25.419 Yeah. So I mainly lost confidence in 98 00:06:25.845 --> 00:06:29.525 a lot of school and just extracurricular settings. I 99 00:06:29.525 --> 00:06:33.365 wasn't able to connect with anyone around me, and the way 100 00:06:33.365 --> 00:06:37.190 I kind of regained that is really just with time, which 101 00:06:37.190 --> 00:06:40.790 is the really unfortunate thing, and that's kind of the reason that I'm 102 00:06:40.790 --> 00:06:44.310 doing everything that I can today. Because I, myself, I did have to 103 00:06:44.310 --> 00:06:48.135 endure it for several years and until I got 104 00:06:48.195 --> 00:06:51.715 this accent that we're talking about right now. And from there, it was kind of 105 00:06:51.715 --> 00:06:54.970 a switch, really. It just switched, and I 106 00:06:55.510 --> 00:06:58.870 no one was weird to me. No one was kind of 107 00:06:58.870 --> 00:07:02.315 disaccepting of me, and it would it just became a lot better. You kinda went 108 00:07:02.315 --> 00:07:05.655 from an outsider with a broken English, 109 00:07:06.355 --> 00:07:10.135 non native, if you like, accent, to being an insider 110 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:14.380 where you're fluent and your your American 111 00:07:14.440 --> 00:07:18.280 twang, if you like, is the same as everybody else's. Exactly. And that's why 112 00:07:18.280 --> 00:07:21.845 kind of on this inside now, I'm really hoping to kind of break 113 00:07:21.845 --> 00:07:25.604 that barrier and bring more of those outsiders in without all of those 114 00:07:25.604 --> 00:07:28.440 struggles. You you mentioned you're working with people 115 00:07:29.380 --> 00:07:32.520 from across the globe who are are migrating to the US 116 00:07:32.900 --> 00:07:36.645 from Afghan to places in Africa. What are the biggest 117 00:07:36.645 --> 00:07:40.245 challenges they face? Are they fleeing are they fleeing war zones 118 00:07:40.245 --> 00:07:43.910 and discrimination if it could be, 119 00:07:43.910 --> 00:07:47.449 or are they voluntarily migrating for better lives? 120 00:07:48.630 --> 00:07:52.090 So the majority of the children that I work with are 121 00:07:52.415 --> 00:07:55.955 fleeing some kind of war. So a lot of them are from Afghanistan, 122 00:07:56.575 --> 00:08:00.015 Syria, and Congo, which are kind of war driven 123 00:08:00.015 --> 00:08:03.750 countries right now. So first of all, 124 00:08:03.750 --> 00:08:07.510 you have to deal with kind of their traumatic experiences. A lot of them 125 00:08:07.510 --> 00:08:11.290 are very young, so it's not debilitating yet. But 126 00:08:11.655 --> 00:08:15.195 you have to first address that, and then you also have to address 127 00:08:15.255 --> 00:08:18.935 their developing English as well as kind of teaching 128 00:08:18.935 --> 00:08:22.670 them to be able to accept other people from other countries. Yeah. 129 00:08:22.670 --> 00:08:26.110 Because we we assume that all people who migrate or who 130 00:08:26.110 --> 00:08:29.944 are minorities are gonna necessarily be friends with all the other people 131 00:08:29.944 --> 00:08:33.705 who migrate. Exactly. But they're they're just a stranger to 132 00:08:33.705 --> 00:08:37.370 each other as anybody else. So they would have their own biases and 133 00:08:37.370 --> 00:08:41.130 and hang ups. Do they do they come with their families, or 134 00:08:41.130 --> 00:08:44.675 or many of these come alone? They the 135 00:08:44.675 --> 00:08:48.375 most of them that I know do get to come with their families, but 136 00:08:48.675 --> 00:08:52.115 they're coming from a very underprivileged background despite 137 00:08:52.115 --> 00:08:55.940 having maybe some sort of wealth in their native country, they come 138 00:08:55.940 --> 00:08:59.780 here with little to no success, and they're living 139 00:08:59.780 --> 00:09:03.575 in more of these desolate places around Pennsylvania. 140 00:09:04.195 --> 00:09:07.815 And I I would assume, therefore, that the family itself 141 00:09:07.955 --> 00:09:11.315 are probably not great English speakers. The parents may not have a 142 00:09:11.315 --> 00:09:15.160 high high competency in English. So this the people you're working with 143 00:09:15.160 --> 00:09:19.000 effectively become the family translators, I guess, and the the family breadwinners in 144 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:22.665 some cases. Yeah. Actually, I remember one of the girls 145 00:09:22.665 --> 00:09:26.505 that we kind of talked to every once in a while. She 146 00:09:26.505 --> 00:09:30.080 was telling us about how she can't come to our session 147 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:33.840 today because she needs to go to her little sister's doctor 148 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:37.600 appointment. So I was asking her why she would need to go to her 149 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:41.425 sister's doctor appointment and because I wanted her to stay, of course. But 150 00:09:41.425 --> 00:09:45.185 she kind of explained that if she wasn't there, even though 151 00:09:45.185 --> 00:09:48.640 her English is broken, it is the least broken in her family. 152 00:09:49.100 --> 00:09:52.480 And in order for them to have any kind of successful appointment 153 00:09:53.020 --> 00:09:56.635 or schedule anything, she needed to be there. Yeah. So that's that's another 154 00:09:56.635 --> 00:10:00.334 burden on a young person when they're trying to 155 00:10:00.875 --> 00:10:04.649 develop themselves through their childhood, enjoy, have fun, grow 156 00:10:04.649 --> 00:10:08.089 and learn. They have this pressure and burden of supporting the 157 00:10:08.089 --> 00:10:11.935 family from a translation point of view. And and 158 00:10:11.935 --> 00:10:14.595 if you're in a big family, that could be a lot of people you're responsible 159 00:10:14.655 --> 00:10:18.415 for. Yeah. Exactly. So yeah. Yeah. I suppose the other 160 00:10:18.415 --> 00:10:21.870 side to culture is the modern world is not just 161 00:10:21.930 --> 00:10:25.610 spoken language. There's also we're we're very much 162 00:10:25.610 --> 00:10:28.830 email, text, WhatsApp, Snapchat, social media, 163 00:10:29.585 --> 00:10:33.265 online, IT. You you've gotta be quite tech savvy. I 164 00:10:33.265 --> 00:10:37.025 assume that many of the people that come these days maybe don't 165 00:10:37.025 --> 00:10:40.740 have advanced technology in the same way that, you know, you have 166 00:10:40.740 --> 00:10:44.580 every day in your life now. So you've gotta overcome the the 167 00:10:44.580 --> 00:10:48.360 spoken language, but also understand the 168 00:10:48.695 --> 00:10:52.155 the nuances of of online communication as well, Emily. 169 00:10:52.535 --> 00:10:56.375 Yeah. I think digital literacy is a really big problem that they have to 170 00:10:56.375 --> 00:10:59.030 face on top of everything that they're already enduring 171 00:10:59.970 --> 00:11:02.310 as, like, as we as a really, 172 00:11:03.890 --> 00:11:07.665 like, nation and country and around the world. As 173 00:11:07.665 --> 00:11:11.365 we all kind of become more into digital literacy 174 00:11:11.505 --> 00:11:15.240 and especially, I think, with the influx of COVID, 175 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:19.079 I think we've all really kind of turned to our devices and 176 00:11:19.079 --> 00:11:22.834 really focused on Internet communication. But if you're 177 00:11:22.834 --> 00:11:26.514 talking to these refugees who have just left a 178 00:11:26.514 --> 00:11:29.980 traumatic environment and are trying to even stay on their feet, 179 00:11:30.380 --> 00:11:34.079 digital literacy is not their biggest concern, which 180 00:11:34.459 --> 00:11:38.220 makes sense, of course, but it's definitely a disadvantage to 181 00:11:38.220 --> 00:11:41.925 them because there are so many opportunities online that they'll just never 182 00:11:41.925 --> 00:11:45.445 know about. Yeah. Yes. Interesting. I I suppose 183 00:11:45.445 --> 00:11:49.010 also combined with that, you've got, I'm gonna say I use the word poverty. I 184 00:11:49.010 --> 00:11:51.570 don't mean to say people have no money. I'm just trying to say that they 185 00:11:51.570 --> 00:11:55.350 may not have money to invest Mhmm. In Internet connectivity 186 00:11:55.490 --> 00:11:59.334 and tech. And it's it's they become in a modern world, it can become very 187 00:11:59.334 --> 00:12:02.714 isolated if you're not in an online you know, you you 188 00:12:03.015 --> 00:12:06.850 can't order food. You can't go to the cinema. All these things are booking online. 189 00:12:06.910 --> 00:12:10.610 You need money. Most of it is online cash now or electronic 190 00:12:10.670 --> 00:12:14.405 cash. So there's a whole load of literacy you need to 191 00:12:14.405 --> 00:12:18.245 develop beyond just the spoken language. And tech can help you, 192 00:12:18.245 --> 00:12:22.050 kinda. You've got, yeah, with AI. We talked about Chat GPT before we 193 00:12:22.050 --> 00:12:25.650 went live. You can take photographs now and translate 194 00:12:25.650 --> 00:12:29.495 menus on you know, Google Translate will take a photograph and live translate. You can 195 00:12:29.495 --> 00:12:33.175 live transcribe television or or someone 196 00:12:33.175 --> 00:12:36.850 speaking to you. So there's a lot more technology now to help people overcome the 197 00:12:36.850 --> 00:12:40.610 short term barrier, but they they probably don't really help if 198 00:12:40.610 --> 00:12:44.210 you're trying to learn the language because they almost give you a shortcut rather 199 00:12:44.210 --> 00:12:47.685 force you to have to learn the language. Yeah. Absolutely. I 200 00:12:47.685 --> 00:12:51.365 think in a way, it can be good that we have these 201 00:12:51.365 --> 00:12:54.740 people kind of, like, originally or, like, 202 00:12:54.980 --> 00:12:58.740 inherently learning the language. But I also think, like like you said, 203 00:12:58.740 --> 00:13:02.565 it's a very isolating feeling to not be able to connect with, 204 00:13:02.885 --> 00:13:06.565 for example, a Facebook community of people from your same 205 00:13:06.565 --> 00:13:10.005 region natively. And I just think 206 00:13:10.005 --> 00:13:13.680 the, like, the isolation both geographically 207 00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:17.420 from everyone they've ever known and their isolation digitally, it 208 00:13:17.420 --> 00:13:21.263 just piles on. How hard is it to 209 00:13:21.339 --> 00:13:25.135 stay culturally attached? You know, you talked there about the distance between your 210 00:13:25.515 --> 00:13:29.180 your family, probably extended family still in India. You wanna 211 00:13:29.180 --> 00:13:32.560 keep in touch with grandparents or cousins and other people 212 00:13:33.180 --> 00:13:37.020 who are maybe not digitally connected. And this must be really, really hard to keep 213 00:13:37.020 --> 00:13:40.764 in touch and share your stories both 214 00:13:40.764 --> 00:13:44.605 ways. Yeah. It is. And I think it really does affect the 215 00:13:44.605 --> 00:13:48.410 kind of relationships, which is horrible when you think about it. 216 00:13:48.410 --> 00:13:52.110 These are, like, my grandparents that I don't get to talk to as often. 217 00:13:52.490 --> 00:13:55.755 So when we try to talk to them, first of all, we have to use 218 00:13:56.235 --> 00:13:59.615 a different kind of phone service that will go overseas. 219 00:14:00.475 --> 00:14:04.075 2nd of all, the connection is horrible. We're yelling into the 220 00:14:04.075 --> 00:14:07.870 phone, getting frustrated, just trying to explain little things that are going 221 00:14:07.870 --> 00:14:11.630 on in our lives, and the infrequency of it kind of 222 00:14:11.630 --> 00:14:15.175 makes it hard to speak freely. Because if I'm talking about 223 00:14:15.555 --> 00:14:19.315 what happened in my day, I have to preface it with, oh, this is this. 224 00:14:19.315 --> 00:14:23.010 This is this activity that I'm doing. And I think just the fact that 225 00:14:23.010 --> 00:14:26.850 I don't get to see them and all these children don't get to see 226 00:14:26.850 --> 00:14:30.654 them is just horrible for the relationships in general. Yeah. 227 00:14:30.654 --> 00:14:34.334 Yeah. And, yeah, that must be really tough because where where you're where you're 228 00:14:34.334 --> 00:14:38.015 living now, you just FaceTime, you wherever you Google, meet each 229 00:14:38.015 --> 00:14:41.440 other, wherever you whatever you do. And you can see each other whenever you need 230 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:44.960 to. And but when you've got a cultural difference in that way, it must be 231 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:48.399 hard. But yeah. So the the people that, you you 232 00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:51.985 help, and and that's right from a young age, right from the 233 00:14:52.105 --> 00:14:55.945 you know, your sort of age was 4 5, 6 years old all the way 234 00:14:55.945 --> 00:14:59.650 through to teenage and young adults, I guess. Yeah. 235 00:14:59.650 --> 00:15:03.190 They are of every age I can imagine, really. I think 236 00:15:03.570 --> 00:15:07.394 the youngest is probably 2, and I think 237 00:15:07.394 --> 00:15:11.154 the oldest is maybe 15. And we're all just kind of 238 00:15:11.154 --> 00:15:14.615 congregated in one area. We don't really have the ability 239 00:15:14.900 --> 00:15:18.740 to kind of separate based on age or anything. We just try to cater 240 00:15:18.740 --> 00:15:22.505 to everyone's needs based off of where they are kind of within 241 00:15:22.505 --> 00:15:26.105 their education. People have said to me that English isn't a terribly easy 242 00:15:26.105 --> 00:15:29.865 language to learn for someone who's not a native speaker 243 00:15:29.865 --> 00:15:33.300 because you tend to pick up a lot of the complexity of 244 00:15:33.300 --> 00:15:36.820 English just by absorbing it and being around people and getting to feel 245 00:15:37.060 --> 00:15:40.795 to actually learn it is a is as a as a second, 3rd, or 246 00:15:40.795 --> 00:15:44.475 4th fifth language is extremely difficult. And I've heard people a lot of people 247 00:15:44.475 --> 00:15:48.175 say that speaking English is a privilege that shouldn't be underestimated. 248 00:15:49.580 --> 00:15:53.279 How did you find it? Yeah. I agree honestly. Like, 249 00:15:53.660 --> 00:15:57.355 even in retrospect right now, the way that I'm able to just 250 00:15:57.355 --> 00:16:01.195 form sentences and we're having a conversation, certain complexities in 251 00:16:01.195 --> 00:16:04.795 it aren't they just aren't there in other languages. A lot more things are 252 00:16:04.795 --> 00:16:08.350 straightforward in the different languages that I've learned or 253 00:16:08.350 --> 00:16:11.650 maybe these refugees have learned. And just 254 00:16:12.030 --> 00:16:15.834 coupling that with an inability to actually learn English with learning a 255 00:16:15.834 --> 00:16:19.355 very hard language in itself has to be horrible. I I know 256 00:16:19.355 --> 00:16:23.115 myself, and it does help that they're children, so you 257 00:16:23.115 --> 00:16:26.800 have that kind of cognitive ability to learn more easily. 258 00:16:27.260 --> 00:16:30.940 But then you have to think about the parents, you know, because they're in the 259 00:16:30.940 --> 00:16:34.560 same boat, but their brain is 25 years older. 260 00:16:35.775 --> 00:16:39.155 So how do you find yourself now? Are you still 261 00:16:39.615 --> 00:16:42.815 translating in your head, or or have you managed to flip the switch where you 262 00:16:42.815 --> 00:16:46.170 think in English now? I've managed to flip the 263 00:16:46.170 --> 00:16:49.790 switch, fortunately, but it kind of affects 264 00:16:50.410 --> 00:16:53.895 me the other way around now. So now when I'm trying to speak in my 265 00:16:53.895 --> 00:16:57.655 native language, I have to think in English first, and it's 266 00:16:57.655 --> 00:17:01.440 a lot more broken, which is I don't know. It 267 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:05.119 it really affects your kind of security and your own identity because I 268 00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:08.895 started off with one language and was really glued 269 00:17:08.895 --> 00:17:12.115 to that one, and I use it to communicate with all of my family. 270 00:17:12.415 --> 00:17:16.050 But now it's kind of lost. Yeah. Yeah. 271 00:17:16.050 --> 00:17:19.890 So I was talking to someone many years ago who was not a 272 00:17:19.890 --> 00:17:23.410 native English speaker, and I was asking them they were very, very 273 00:17:23.410 --> 00:17:26.755 fluent. I became we we agreed that the best way of telling is if you 274 00:17:26.755 --> 00:17:30.355 have to do a a mental arithmetic in your head, do you which which 275 00:17:30.355 --> 00:17:33.610 number set do you count in in English or your or your native language? 276 00:17:34.650 --> 00:17:37.049 And you have to you have to get to that point where you're so competent 277 00:17:37.049 --> 00:17:40.179 and you think your language, you're not translating it. That's a real it's a real 278 00:17:40.625 --> 00:17:44.385 must be really tough because I I've never had the need to learn another language 279 00:17:44.385 --> 00:17:48.225 in that detail. Yeah. That's honestly true. I remember talking about 280 00:17:48.225 --> 00:17:51.950 something like that with my parents who obviously came here around the same time as 281 00:17:51.950 --> 00:17:55.310 me. They still do think in our native 282 00:17:55.310 --> 00:17:58.935 language, and every time they speak, they do have to translate 283 00:17:59.075 --> 00:18:02.915 it. So I'm lucky because I learned English at a young age, so it's 284 00:18:02.915 --> 00:18:06.460 kind of hardwired into my brain. But for them, it's just 285 00:18:06.460 --> 00:18:09.820 a constant battle trying to communicate with anyone in the 286 00:18:09.820 --> 00:18:13.200 workplace, in the grocery store, at the movie, just 287 00:18:13.615 --> 00:18:17.375 constantly having to having to translate in their head exactly what they wanna 288 00:18:17.375 --> 00:18:20.654 say. Yeah. You probably see them fighting for the words and 289 00:18:20.815 --> 00:18:24.440 Mhmm. Trying to, yeah, get the sentence 290 00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:28.039 structure. Yeah. Yeah. So do you do you have much support in the 291 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:31.500 communities? You say you live in Pittsburgh and you deal with people all over 292 00:18:31.655 --> 00:18:35.275 sort of outskirts of Pittsburgh where the properties, I guess, and the environment is 293 00:18:35.815 --> 00:18:39.415 cheaper to live, I guess, out of the city. Are there government 294 00:18:39.415 --> 00:18:43.130 resources helping people? I mean, I mean, I I guess the immigrants were 295 00:18:43.130 --> 00:18:46.270 to come over, and you must come over by some sort of government program. 296 00:18:47.210 --> 00:18:50.030 Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of these 297 00:18:50.595 --> 00:18:53.815 refugees, at least, because they are seeking asylum, 298 00:18:54.595 --> 00:18:58.135 they do come through certain governmental organizations, 299 00:18:58.275 --> 00:19:01.900 and there are some more in Pittsburgh. There's, for 300 00:19:01.900 --> 00:19:05.740 example, there's the Jewish Council, which doesn't necessarily focus 301 00:19:05.740 --> 00:19:09.200 on Jewish people, but they focus on immigrants and refugees in general. 302 00:19:09.575 --> 00:19:12.955 And I've been able to work with them. They do a a lot, really. 303 00:19:13.255 --> 00:19:16.935 They will do everything from enroll your child in 304 00:19:16.935 --> 00:19:20.620 kindergarten from help you to kind of file 305 00:19:20.620 --> 00:19:24.220 to get your citizenship. And I think without those kind of 306 00:19:24.220 --> 00:19:27.775 organizations, which I really hope to get there one day, but they're 307 00:19:27.775 --> 00:19:31.535 very funded, very, like, well secure organizations. I think 308 00:19:31.535 --> 00:19:34.950 without them, these refugees, these immigrants would actually be lost. 309 00:19:35.269 --> 00:19:39.110 Yeah. I mean, being a based in the UK, looking at what's 310 00:19:39.110 --> 00:19:42.470 going on in the news, the political climate in the US in some 311 00:19:42.470 --> 00:19:45.475 areas doesn't appear very welcoming 312 00:19:46.335 --> 00:19:50.095 to non native Americans, for want of a better way of describing it, or 313 00:19:50.095 --> 00:19:53.830 in in its own right, what is an what is a native American? And we 314 00:19:53.830 --> 00:19:57.190 go back 200 years. It's not what we imagine today, is it? It's, 315 00:19:57.805 --> 00:20:01.585 the indigenous population of America is completely different to the current population of America. 316 00:20:01.645 --> 00:20:05.325 So is it is it tricky to navigate that sort of 317 00:20:05.325 --> 00:20:08.830 political societal undercurrent of of 318 00:20:08.830 --> 00:20:11.570 of, if you like, of Native American 319 00:20:12.190 --> 00:20:15.804 feelings? Yeah. Honestly, it is. I think 320 00:20:16.085 --> 00:20:19.845 you make a really good point. We think of what the average American is, 321 00:20:19.845 --> 00:20:23.220 and it's not even the original American people. It's 322 00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:26.820 not the people from this continent, which says a 323 00:20:26.820 --> 00:20:29.240 lot, but I think right now, 324 00:20:30.545 --> 00:20:34.085 I at least haven't experienced too many kind of microaggressions 325 00:20:34.385 --> 00:20:38.005 or racism in general because, 1, I 326 00:20:38.065 --> 00:20:41.770 don't have any kind of prevailing accent, and, 2, 327 00:20:41.770 --> 00:20:45.450 I think the the way Asians 328 00:20:45.450 --> 00:20:49.185 are treated is a little bit more durable 329 00:20:49.185 --> 00:20:53.025 in some ways. I think it's definitely damaging, but I also 330 00:20:53.025 --> 00:20:56.760 think that if I were of a different ethnicity, I 331 00:20:56.760 --> 00:21:00.520 think my experience would be a lot more difficult. The I'm 332 00:21:00.520 --> 00:21:03.634 gonna phrase it. This is not very polite way of saying it, but you're a 333 00:21:03.634 --> 00:21:07.475 good immigrant. People you're you're kind of you're an acceptable view 334 00:21:07.475 --> 00:21:11.240 of of an immigrant because your skin is you're you're not you're not 335 00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:15.080 black American. You're Asian American, which is a a completely different sort 336 00:21:15.080 --> 00:21:18.440 of privilege, if you like. Yeah. It's kind of the 337 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:22.205 different facets of racism in general. You have this, like, good 338 00:21:22.445 --> 00:21:25.665 for a lack of a better way to say it, like a good immigrant or 339 00:21:25.725 --> 00:21:28.865 someone that is kind of stereotyped for 340 00:21:29.390 --> 00:21:33.150 working hard or being in computer science or 341 00:21:33.150 --> 00:21:36.530 smelling. Like, those are all very damaging 342 00:21:36.590 --> 00:21:39.975 to my identity, but they are not life threatening. 343 00:21:40.515 --> 00:21:44.295 So I think I am kind of lucky in that way 344 00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:47.919 where you have other people that are accused of so many worse 345 00:21:47.919 --> 00:21:51.279 things. Yeah. Because you you said in in the show notes your aspiration is to 346 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:54.865 be a doctor or or follow a medical career. And 347 00:21:54.865 --> 00:21:57.845 your ethnicity gives you a positive bias, 348 00:21:58.385 --> 00:22:01.825 because people would expect someone of Indian 349 00:22:01.825 --> 00:22:05.670 descent to be a doctor or be in that kind of you you always have 350 00:22:05.670 --> 00:22:09.430 that that positive, yeah, so the positive bias, 351 00:22:09.430 --> 00:22:12.995 you know, help you help you in that that respect, I guess, and and 352 00:22:12.995 --> 00:22:16.835 your, I would say, perfect English with a with an American accent 353 00:22:16.835 --> 00:22:20.539 is is also gonna help you. I suppose then you 354 00:22:20.539 --> 00:22:23.500 then you end up in this as you I think you you hinted to this 355 00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:27.100 this dilemma in your head around your culture versus your 356 00:22:27.100 --> 00:22:30.635 your current status and almost having to, I'm not 357 00:22:30.635 --> 00:22:34.475 saying, deny who you your your upbringing. But you have to you 358 00:22:34.475 --> 00:22:38.075 have to ride the fast train, don't you, if you'd like to take advantage of 359 00:22:38.075 --> 00:22:41.679 society? Yeah. I do. I kinda have to override 360 00:22:41.740 --> 00:22:45.280 who I was in the beginning in order to be successful here, 361 00:22:45.500 --> 00:22:48.915 which it's amazing that I have the opportunity to be here 362 00:22:48.915 --> 00:22:52.515 and accomplish so much. I think that I would be nowhere where I am 363 00:22:52.515 --> 00:22:56.240 if it were not for the country that I live in. But it's also 364 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.080 sad to think that in the process, I've had to kind of give up a 365 00:23:00.080 --> 00:23:03.725 part of myself. Yeah. It yeah. It 366 00:23:03.725 --> 00:23:07.485 is. It it's it must be really frustrating. How do because, 367 00:23:07.485 --> 00:23:11.299 obviously, we're here, we're talking about you. What's your experience of working with 368 00:23:11.299 --> 00:23:15.140 the people you're helping? Do they have similar dilemmas? Are they are they 369 00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:18.905 are they are they learning English in the same way you have and developing? 370 00:23:19.685 --> 00:23:23.285 Yeah. They I think they're honestly in a worse situation than I 371 00:23:23.285 --> 00:23:26.665 am. I was able to learn English 372 00:23:27.100 --> 00:23:30.860 through kindergarten and so on, but I had at 373 00:23:30.860 --> 00:23:34.299 least some kind of prior knowledge while I was in India 374 00:23:34.299 --> 00:23:37.745 because they did teach you a little bit. So although I was really 375 00:23:37.745 --> 00:23:41.365 struggling, I wasn't clueless. A lot of these students are 376 00:23:41.985 --> 00:23:45.790 completely clueless, but more than that, they come 377 00:23:45.790 --> 00:23:49.170 from a more disadvantaged background than I do. So 378 00:23:49.310 --> 00:23:53.010 coupled with a worse understanding of English 379 00:23:53.505 --> 00:23:57.345 and very limited resources to actually kind of combat that, I 380 00:23:57.345 --> 00:24:01.125 just think their experience is even worse, and I I feel absolutely horrible. 381 00:24:01.345 --> 00:24:05.150 I'll talk with these children, and they'll just tell me about 382 00:24:05.150 --> 00:24:08.750 different things that have been going on in their lives. Like, for 383 00:24:08.750 --> 00:24:12.255 example, there's this one boy that always comes as always comes up 384 00:24:12.735 --> 00:24:16.495 maybe 15 minutes earlier to help us set up. So he'll 385 00:24:16.495 --> 00:24:20.095 carry he's 6 years old. He'll carry around the tables. He'll set up the 386 00:24:20.095 --> 00:24:23.630 chairs. He'll put down the snacks. He'll do everything just to 387 00:24:23.630 --> 00:24:27.390 help out, but mainly with the intention of being 388 00:24:27.390 --> 00:24:31.235 able to talk to me. And I really appreciate that a 389 00:24:31.235 --> 00:24:35.014 lot, and I think it's really important to build that kind of rapport with 390 00:24:35.875 --> 00:24:39.620 these different students because they have so many things to talk about. And 391 00:24:39.840 --> 00:24:42.799 some of them are not so good, and it's good that they kind of have 392 00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:46.034 an outlet to talk to. Yeah. Because you you see a lot of this on 393 00:24:46.034 --> 00:24:49.715 the news, and it I I don't pretend to have an understanding of 394 00:24:49.715 --> 00:24:53.495 how the everyday true lives of what's going on, just the news versions. 395 00:24:54.080 --> 00:24:56.500 But someone like Afghanistan, Taliban, 396 00:24:57.679 --> 00:25:01.440 how it's unsafe to be a a a young woman or 397 00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:04.965 or even a woman of any age and also a young 398 00:25:04.965 --> 00:25:08.645 child, you know, young adult in a in a country that is 399 00:25:08.645 --> 00:25:12.085 so dominated by a religion that 400 00:25:12.085 --> 00:25:15.770 prevents anybody but men really having any 401 00:25:15.830 --> 00:25:19.050