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Joanne Lockwood: And today is episode 134
Joanne Lockwood: with the title, Claiming Each Other. And I
Joanne Lockwood: have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Lorie Solis.
Joanne Lockwood: Lorie is a somatic trauma worker. That's easy for
Joanne Lockwood: you to say. Body worker, educator, herbalist, and healer.
Joanne Lockwood: And when I asked Lorie to describe her superpower, she said, she is a
Joanne Lockwood: dynamic woman, and has gifts of sight on many
Joanne Lockwood: dimensions and can see quite well in the
Joanne Lockwood: darkness. Hello, Lorie. Welcome to the show.
Lorie Solis: Hi, Joanne. Thank you for having me. Absolute
Joanne Lockwood: pleasure. Absolute pleasure. So, Lorie, tell me more about claiming each
Joanne Lockwood: other and somatic healing. Claiming each other
Lorie Solis: is what I'm calling both a personal
Lorie Solis: life work that I'm in at the moment and as well
Lorie Solis: a methodology and training that I've developed and
Lorie Solis: teaching people at the moment. And it's really about
Lorie Solis: resilient relationships, building resilient relationships
Lorie Solis: across divides in conflict
Lorie Solis: kind of when we least expect it, when conflict comes up within our most
Lorie Solis: intimate circles, especially when
Lorie Solis: things are really important conflicts, not just kind of run of the
Lorie Solis: mill mundane conflict, but really charged
Lorie Solis: political, personal, ancestral, intergenerational
Lorie Solis: material that comes up in our intimate
Lorie Solis: circles and how to handle that with care, with reverence,
Lorie Solis: with skill to heal it in the
Lorie Solis: context of that relationship, and to build resiliency
Lorie Solis: for, yeah, for more skillful, compassionate relationships.
Joanne Lockwood: It's interesting. I I love the way you frame that. It inflict whether it's political,
Joanne Lockwood: personal, or or or other dimensions. What's the root
Joanne Lockwood: cause of conflict? Where where does it where does it come from?
Lorie Solis: Oh, man. I wish I knew a really definitive
Lorie Solis: answer to that question. I I think of conflict
Lorie Solis: as a creative force. I like to think of conflict
Lorie Solis: as a generative potential for something, a healing that wants to
Lorie Solis: happen, the emergence of something new that is intelligent in
Lorie Solis: its own way. So So I get curious from a somatic perspective of
Lorie Solis: how we protect ourselves from a conflict. You know, the
Lorie Solis: perception of threat. So it's something that we want to avoid or
Lorie Solis: save ourselves from. But to kind of alter our
Lorie Solis: perception, to recognize the opportunity,
Lorie Solis: the calling, the potential, that it is an intelligent
Lorie Solis: creative force that wants to happen through us. So where does
Lorie Solis: it come from? I don't know. Maybe this innate
Lorie Solis: creative intelligence of the cosmos may be manifesting
Lorie Solis: through us. I don't know. I I think
Joanne Lockwood: about, as I was saying, is that you can't challenge
Joanne Lockwood: emotion with logic. And a lot of
Joanne Lockwood: conflict is is comes out of emotion because we become
Joanne Lockwood: emotionally connected with something. Yes. It's hard for us to let go of that
Joanne Lockwood: emotion and that and that feeling, isn't it? Yeah. And I really
Lorie Solis: I love that, actually. You know, I'm I'm curious
Lorie Solis: about kind of courageous conversations and tackling
Lorie Solis: difficult content from a really logical place, like
Lorie Solis: debate skills, how to have solid conversations from a
Lorie Solis: more rational, logical place with people you disagree with.
Lorie Solis: That's one thing, and it's super important. Claiming each
Lorie Solis: other, I think, more embraces the emotional
Lorie Solis: charge, the reality that we are emotional beings as
Lorie Solis: well. And when conflict comes up, there when it
Lorie Solis: threatens, right, for example, our personhood, our dignity,
Lorie Solis: our safety, our sense of belonging, that it's very
Lorie Solis: rational that that has an emotional charge.
Lorie Solis: And so instead of expecting
Lorie Solis: that emotional content needs to be rational or needs to
Lorie Solis: look in some other way in order for us to engage with it. I'm
Lorie Solis: particularly devoted to being in the
Lorie Solis: emotional content in a respectful and good way. I've
Joanne Lockwood: never heard of the term somatic before. Can you enlighten
Joanne Lockwood: me? Great. Somatics is a field
Lorie Solis: of study and practice that
Lorie Solis: deals with the body mind as a unified
Lorie Solis: whole. So as opposed you might have heard of,
Lorie Solis: like, mind body medicine, for example. So as
Lorie Solis: opposed to cognitive approaches where we are just talking it
Lorie Solis: out and it's the more logical and reframing or body based
Lorie Solis: methods alone, like maybe body work. These it kind of
Lorie Solis: joins these things. So it asks us to engage our
Lorie Solis: whole neurobiology in order to align
Lorie Solis: our ideas, our words, our
Lorie Solis: thoughts with our values, and live accordingly
Lorie Solis: to become who we want to become in the world, to be who we
Lorie Solis: are meant to be. Does it make sense? Completely at at at one,
Joanne Lockwood: aligned, you say, truly authentic in
Joanne Lockwood: terms of your your values, who who you are, how people perceive
Joanne Lockwood: you. Exactly. And it's hard you maybe have heard
Lorie Solis: people have this conflict. I mean, I've had it. Maybe you've had it where it's
Lorie Solis: like the mind is saying one thing and the body feels something else. There's
Lorie Solis: this kind of sense of split, or we feel ambivalent how
Lorie Solis: to be in our authenticity in a world that doesn't always
Lorie Solis: allow us to live by our values fully. So
Lorie Solis: how do we reconcile this ambivalence inside of ourselves
Lorie Solis: and ourselves within the context of the larger
Lorie Solis: world. So Maddox is about this, of using our mind body
Lorie Solis: intelligence to make decisions, to be in
Lorie Solis: our agency, knowing that we are not in our agency with a
Lorie Solis: lot of the world.
Joanne Lockwood: I I came across the, was it the Japanese art of a happy life, the
Joanne Lockwood: ikigai, 4 or 5 years ago. And
Joanne Lockwood: it really summed up for me that I was missing one of the core, one
Joanne Lockwood: of the four pillars of it which is find something that
Joanne Lockwood: brought me true joy and happiness personally. I was doing things to
Joanne Lockwood: make money, I was doing things because I was good at it, I was doing
Joanne Lockwood: all the other things. When I looked back on it I thought hang on a
Joanne Lockwood: minute, I'm not getting any joy out of this, I'm going through it because
Joanne Lockwood: I do. It's really hard though to stop and
Joanne Lockwood: step back from that and really reflect and then say hang on a minute,
Joanne Lockwood: to go forward I need to go forward with something that brings me joy as
Joanne Lockwood: well and is that part of the healing process to try and figure out who
Joanne Lockwood: you are? For sure. I think for some people, that's a big part of the
Lorie Solis: healing process is to explore the various states
Lorie Solis: of our embodiment, of our human embodiment,
Lorie Solis: and to see where there may be gaps in those experiences.
Lorie Solis: So I definitely resonate. I think I kind of knew
Lorie Solis: pleasure. I knew contentment. But for me, joy was kind of
Lorie Solis: an elusive experience. I think I could
Lorie Solis: recognize it in other people, but then feeling like,
Lorie Solis: this one I'm not so familiar with. And
Lorie Solis: understanding my barriers to that,
Lorie Solis: And then what does it mean for me to embody joy, not based
Lorie Solis: necessarily on what I see in other people and what I think that means,
Lorie Solis: but from a body, like, what does it feel like? What is joy on
Lorie Solis: that intimate level inside? So it's definitely, I think,
Lorie Solis: a part of healing is to allow ourselves
Lorie Solis: the exploration of the range, the possible range of our
Lorie Solis: expression. We pick up all this baggage in our life, don't
Joanne Lockwood: we, from an early age where and then suddenly
Joanne Lockwood: expectations, responsibilities and pressure and
Joanne Lockwood: social constructs kick in and I hope you we all
Joanne Lockwood: kind of fit into this image of what we're supposed to be rather than who
Joanne Lockwood: we as you say, we're trying to find this alignment. Often sits outside
Joanne Lockwood: this societal expectation, doesn't it? I suppose so.
Lorie Solis: I always kinda felt that I I think I had a in
Lorie Solis: my family of origin, I felt such a sense
Lorie Solis: of acceptance and belonging for who I was, which I've come to
Lorie Solis: see maybe just in the context of my work because I work with a lot
Lorie Solis: of people who have not experienced that. But it does feel like
Lorie Solis: maybe somewhat of a rarity. And as far as
Lorie Solis: societal expectations, in many ways, I could meet those,
Lorie Solis: but in other ways, I just couldn't. And so I felt
Lorie Solis: in a way, although constrained in some ways,
Lorie Solis: also liberated. Like, I can't I cannot meet these
Lorie Solis: expectations. There's no way. So I I'm not
Lorie Solis: sure I should even try, really. You know?
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. No. I I I agree. And I've I've been in a few
Joanne Lockwood: things recently where I've realised that what I was doing wasn't
Joanne Lockwood: bringing me joy. And, but it's like
Joanne Lockwood: walking down a one way street, you think, oh, I'll just I'll get to the
Joanne Lockwood: end, I'll get to the end, I'll get to the end and you realise there's
Joanne Lockwood: no end. It's just an everlasting straight. And
Joanne Lockwood: sometimes having something nudge you halfway down that road
Joanne Lockwood: saying, come on, or the rules change or something changes and you
Joanne Lockwood: look back and go, you're so worried about letting go of it and then you
Joanne Lockwood: realise that once you've let go, you realise that was the right
Joanne Lockwood: thing to happen at that particular time in your life. And rather than feel the
Joanne Lockwood: disappointment or the failure or anything else you did, you go, actually,
Joanne Lockwood: I was done with it anyway. I took joy from having the
Joanne Lockwood: courage to step out. Yeah. And it does take courage,
Lorie Solis: doesn't it? Even when things aren't working, quote, unquote, there's
Lorie Solis: still, like, a comfort in the familiarity of the path that we've been
Lorie Solis: on. So to kind of sidestep or reorient a
Lorie Solis: different way into the great unknown, it does take courage. It's
Lorie Solis: scary. Can be. Yeah. You mentioned
Joanne Lockwood: at the beginning, when we we talk about here, it's it's in relationships. And
Joanne Lockwood: sometimes relationships, whether that's intimate or
Joanne Lockwood: casual, conflict does arise because we're so invested in keeping that
Joanne Lockwood: relationship happy and healthy that things go unsaid
Joanne Lockwood: or things we we say too much sometimes as well, don't we? Yeah.
Lorie Solis: Absolutely. When I say intimacy, I don't just mean, like,
Lorie Solis: romantic or sexual intimacy. I mean this, like,
Lorie Solis: sharing ourselves and our authenticity with each other, and
Lorie Solis: being, as you say in your show, as a sanctuary
Lorie Solis: for our unique boldness, which I do
Lorie Solis: thinking is inclusive of our vulnerability. That has something very much to
Lorie Solis: do with our boldness. And,
Lorie Solis: yeah, I do believe that conflict is inevitable on some level.
Lorie Solis: And once again, I believe that it is a generative force
Lorie Solis: to to learn and grow and
Lorie Solis: belong together in ways that are more profound
Lorie Solis: than we may be stepped into the relationship realizing that we
Lorie Solis: would be tasked with figuring out together.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I think we we can sometimes we could be over invested in our belief.
Joanne Lockwood: That's I think that's when the conflict that's where conflict escalates, isn't it?
Joanne Lockwood: Where conflict is, I want to watch this
Joanne Lockwood: television programme, you want to watch that television programme. It's minor
Joanne Lockwood: conflict. It's just disagreement or bickering. But when we become really,
Joanne Lockwood: really invested, it becomes a kind of deal breaker. That's where the conflict starts
Joanne Lockwood: to escalate up, isn't it? Absolutely. And deal breakers, I
Lorie Solis: mean, they're real too. Right? And with claiming each other, it's not for
Lorie Solis: me to say or decide what people
Lorie Solis: should or should not tolerate in their relationships. You know? But in
Lorie Solis: these last years, we've seen a lot of deal breakers around really big
Lorie Solis: topics around the pandemic and around the me too movement and
Lorie Solis: Black Lives Matter and trans liberation and
Lorie Solis: Palestine, Israel. There's these huge things in our world, and I have
Lorie Solis: seen that people in our we, I think about,
Lorie Solis: like, us and them. Who is in our us?
Lorie Solis: There's a lot of diversity in that space of thought, And I'm
Lorie Solis: very curious about how we encourage each other's
Lorie Solis: growth and authenticity and open mindedness,
Lorie Solis: which may result in a change of mind
Lorie Solis: that may make us uncomfortable with each other, and how
Lorie Solis: we can potentially stay in belonging
Lorie Solis: together and create this sanctuary. Can we create
Lorie Solis: sanctuary together when we start to realize that we
Lorie Solis: are having very different experiences and thus
Lorie Solis: perceptions about some really important things? We
Joanne Lockwood: get very invested because of our our lived experience, don't we? So
Joanne Lockwood: when we look at the I mean, where are we now? This is October
Joanne Lockwood: 2024 we're recording this. The hostilities in
Joanne Lockwood: the Middle East are escalating slowly and
Joanne Lockwood: surely, well actually quite rapidly with missiles being
Joanne Lockwood: thrown and people being assassinated and
Joanne Lockwood: bombed and whatever. Both both sides are are
Joanne Lockwood: now claiming the the right to be
Joanne Lockwood: righteous here. It's really hard for someone like myself
Joanne Lockwood: who is has no lived experience on either side,
Joanne Lockwood: to have an opinion other than trying to crowdsource
Joanne Lockwood: as much information as you can, wanting everyone to just deescalate
Joanne Lockwood: because there is no future in conflict. Yes. It's how do
Joanne Lockwood: we move past these things? You know, I've been investing my
Lorie Solis: time, energy, my devotions in my community.
Lorie Solis: I've always been very politically active on grassroots
Lorie Solis: levels in the states. But my activism or what I consider
Lorie Solis: my activism has really moved towards
Lorie Solis: focusing on my community scale relationships.
Lorie Solis: So in the community that I live in, I am in
Lorie Solis: close relationship and contact with Israelis and
Lorie Solis: Palestinian people who live here in Portugal.
Lorie Solis: So I definitely have my opinions
Lorie Solis: about the situation. I have my perspective from
Lorie Solis: my limited investment. I am not Israeli nor Palestinian
Lorie Solis: nor Middle Eastern. And yet, I have chosen
Lorie Solis: to, in the spirit of claiming each other, kind of curb that
Lorie Solis: tendency we can have to enter into debate or opinion
Lorie Solis: sharing, or here's my perspective to center
Lorie Solis: actually the emotional content, the
Lorie Solis: the grief, the care, the trauma of the people from,
Lorie Solis: quote, both sides who were sitting with me and sitting in front of me.
Lorie Solis: And that challenges my opinions sometimes
Lorie Solis: on who I think Israelis are, for example, and what I feel about the
Lorie Solis: Israeli government to sit and care together
Lorie Solis: and to be let in to their unique vulnerabilities.
Lorie Solis: It's really a privilege. And I've sat with people and
Lorie Solis: cared with people about many topics that
Lorie Solis: have challenged some previously held convictions. Like you're saying,
Lorie Solis: we hold really we hold really tight to our convictions based on our
Lorie Solis: experience. And I'm still this kind of person who of
Lorie Solis: conviction. And I wanna let myself be
Lorie Solis: challenged for the purpose of being in good relationship with the people around
Lorie Solis: me. And that's been a lesson, I mean,
Lorie Solis: I'm changed many times over, and this is what
Lorie Solis: claiming each other is really about, is letting ourself be held in the
Lorie Solis: challenge and acknowledging that things
Lorie Solis: are a bit more complicated than we sometimes need them to
Lorie Solis: be when things get intense. You know, the
Lorie Solis: tendency when there's conflict or when things start to get intense, we start to
Lorie Solis: narrow in. The options start to feel really limited, like you're either
Lorie Solis: with me or you're against me. And we can't always reconcile, I'm with
Lorie Solis: you. I just feel differently about this thing.
Lorie Solis: So it's like making that space, and this is where the somatics come in, how
Lorie Solis: to actually make greater capacity in our mind
Lorie Solis: body to be able to contain that complexity and the
Lorie Solis: uncertainty of that, which is very intimate. It contains the
Lorie Solis: threat. It contains the hope. It contains all of it.
Lorie Solis: Right? How to sit in that and let it be generative
Lorie Solis: for ourselves individually and potentially the relationship. Yeah. I I
Joanne Lockwood: often talk about the fact that I I don't have to agree with your
Joanne Lockwood: opinion or belief, but I can empathise and understand your
Joanne Lockwood: why. Why do you believe that? Why is that your opinion? What is your
Joanne Lockwood: background? And then I can sit there and work it out with you and go,
Joanne Lockwood: I see why you would believe that. I still I still have a different view,
Joanne Lockwood: but I now empathise with why you believe something, which I think we we many
Joanne Lockwood: people don't really invest the time into getting that deep with
Joanne Lockwood: people. They just wanna challenge the answer, not look at the working
Joanne Lockwood: out. It's really a skill. You know, I appreciate
Lorie Solis: the it's a skill that I think we can practice. I'm
Lorie Solis: not sure that a lot of people have received, like, relationship
Lorie Solis: training on this kind of conflict level, if at all,
Lorie Solis: maybe. So, you know, I'm trained in first aid and in
Lorie Solis: psychological first aid, and I was a civilian first responder. And I
Lorie Solis: realized, like, you know, if there's an accident
Lorie Solis: or a fire, our basic training for protection
Lorie Solis: is probably to run away for survival. Right?
Lorie Solis: And I I see this also in relational conflict. Our basic
Lorie Solis: human training is this fight, flight, freeze. We have these tools at
Lorie Solis: our disposal. But to be the person who runs into
Lorie Solis: the burning building or to run towards whatever emergency it
Lorie Solis: is, it requires some extra training and some extra
Lorie Solis: skills to be confident in your capacity to handle yourself
Lorie Solis: and whatever else in the uncertainty.
Lorie Solis: And this is very relevant to the training of claiming each
Lorie Solis: other. It just acknowledges, okay, we have our basic training
Lorie Solis: to be in generative conflict together in really
Lorie Solis: serious topics that that
Lorie Solis: involve our histories, our lineage, our embodiments. We need we
Lorie Solis: might need some extra skills for this one, some extra training.
Lorie Solis: So this is where my work comes in. I mean, you you mentioned the
Joanne Lockwood: word lineage then. I noticed from the the bio you sent in
Joanne Lockwood: for the show around your indigenous
Joanne Lockwood: lineage, First Nation, is that how you describe yourself as well?
Lorie Solis: American Indian, indigenous American. And
Joanne Lockwood: you you had a you've got a really long description with hyphens in it. I
Joanne Lockwood: I couldn't pronounce all of this. Do you want do you want a
Joanne Lockwood: Afrotainer or something? Is it? I don't know what I
Lorie Solis: wrote there, but I can give you the quick hyphenated spiel of
Lorie Solis: my makeup Go for it. If you're curious. Go for it. No. No. I'd
Joanne Lockwood: love to find out more about you. Sometimes it changes based on what I'm connecting
Lorie Solis: with. I would say Afro, Taina, Chicana,
Lorie Solis: Lipan, Apache, Texan.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Most of that. Boracua? Was it the wrong one?
Lorie Solis: Boriqua. This is the indigenous name for what is now known
Lorie Solis: as Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico, and the Caribbean. And the Taino people
Lorie Solis: are the indigenous people of Borikeng. So Borinquen
Lorie Solis: is the name the indigenous name of of Puerto Rico, and then the
Lorie Solis: indigenous tribes there are the Taino people. You've grown up with that
Joanne Lockwood: lineage and the stories of your ancestors, and you're connected
Joanne Lockwood: to the From both of them. Earth, if you like. Definitely. Planet in a
Joanne Lockwood: different way. I definitely feel that this has held
Lorie Solis: me, this connection to ancestral practices from both sides of
Lorie Solis: my maternal and paternal lineages. And it
Lorie Solis: definitely informs, I think, my personal capacity for
Lorie Solis: complexity and to reconcile what sometimes
Lorie Solis: feels like irreconcilable differences.
Lorie Solis: How I've been able to literally embody that has
Lorie Solis: certainly served me in my work to bring that
Lorie Solis: to others and to practice together. I've heard people use the word
Joanne Lockwood: decolonization before. How does that resonate
Joanne Lockwood: with you and the work you do? When you say decolonising, that's
Joanne Lockwood: removing colonisers from your life or
Joanne Lockwood: from your viewpoints or? Okay, I'm curious what you
Lorie Solis: understand it to mean, if you wouldn't mind sharing. I suppose
Joanne Lockwood: decolonising, so I start from probably the the
Joanne Lockwood: opposite side. So for me, colonization is an unwanted
Joanne Lockwood: person taking over your space, for want of a better way of describing
Joanne Lockwood: it. I come to your country. I come to your house. I want
Joanne Lockwood: to take over. I want to steal your resources and expect
Joanne Lockwood: you to live the way I want you to live. It's probably how I would
Joanne Lockwood: describe sort of colonisation, so I guess decolonisation is
Joanne Lockwood: reclaiming your power. Get out of my house, get out
Joanne Lockwood: of my country, get out of my head, let me live my life
Joanne Lockwood: without your view of the world imposing your
Joanne Lockwood: privilege, your beliefs,
Joanne Lockwood: as some sort of power and control over me. I suppose it's the way I
Joanne Lockwood: would probably frame that without a better definition.
Lorie Solis: Yeah. I think when you speak to indigenous people
Lorie Solis: across the globe, decolonization necessarily
Lorie Solis: means land back. So there's land back movements to
Lorie Solis: return lands stolen land from indigenous peoples. And this
Lorie Solis: is important because indigenous peoples' lifeways,
Lorie Solis: their lifestyles, their spirituality, the food, everything is so intimately
Lorie Solis: connected to land. And so without access to land, people are not
Lorie Solis: able to self
Lorie Solis: actualize their own liberation.
Lorie Solis: So that is a component and a very important component of
Lorie Solis: decolonization. Now from a somatic perspective, you
Lorie Solis: mentioned a lot of things of decolonizing our minds, our
Lorie Solis: bodies, our relationships. And this is about examining
Lorie Solis: where kind of dominant narratives and
Lorie Solis: powers that be, whether it be from a legal and state
Lorie Solis: standpoint to the medical establishment, have determined for
Lorie Solis: us what is acceptable, what is ill, what is
Lorie Solis: pathological, what is allowed.
Lorie Solis: What what are the boxes for it to be checked only? Right? In
Lorie Solis: all of the ways. So decolonization for me is
Lorie Solis: about a deep dive into my belief
Lorie Solis: systems and how I embody them, where those came from,
Lorie Solis: and purposely reconnecting to my indigenous
Lorie Solis: landscapes. Literally, the land looking to land,
Lorie Solis: animals, ecology for wisdom that applies
Lorie Solis: to what might seem like it doesn't like relational conflict
Lorie Solis: or pull it the political sphere because it is interconnected.
Lorie Solis: And, you know, all people are indigenous to
Lorie Solis: this earth. We all come from indigenous
Lorie Solis: lineages. And so I'm very passionate about this kind
Lorie Solis: of not just decolonization, but reindigenization
Lorie Solis: of ourselves to our mind bodies, and how
Lorie Solis: to work that in the healing of our relationship,
Lorie Solis: which I think broadens the potential for
Lorie Solis: a deeper level of acceptance of each other even in our
Lorie Solis: differences. Right? It allows for that complexity
Lorie Solis: and that space for that quaking of the
Lorie Solis: unknown inside of us can really be held when we contextualize
Lorie Solis: ourselves in more. We're not just
Lorie Solis: alone. It's not just me and you trying to figure out this
Lorie Solis: issue between us. Right? We are held in a larger scope
Lorie Solis: of of lineage that I believe
Lorie Solis: wants to see us thrive together because life wants to
Lorie Solis: live. Life wants to live. And I think that we are
Lorie Solis: faced presented with challenges towards that aim
Lorie Solis: to for thriving for thriving,
Lorie Solis: for sanctuary building. And that doesn't mean that the what
Lorie Solis: then do we do is not necessarily made clear.
Lorie Solis: But when I have found that when we couldn't connect to
Lorie Solis: that deeper fabric of intelligence,
Lorie Solis: that informs us of what to do in a different way
Lorie Solis: than we're when we're kind of just on the human, just on the
Lorie Solis: political, just on even the interpersonal.
Lorie Solis: I found that it's a limited scope of perception to enter into
Lorie Solis: conflict with. So something as simple as maybe
Lorie Solis: not simple, but, yeah, remembering in the moment.
Lorie Solis: The moment when we're presented with conflict, literally
Lorie Solis: connecting with our felt sense. But there's
Lorie Solis: more going on around us than we maybe realize
Lorie Solis: at first glance. That there's a living, breathing world
Lorie Solis: around us, that our ancestors may be present with us.
Lorie Solis: This can inform our decision making process.
Lorie Solis: What we choose in a conflict resolution process might be
Lorie Solis: informed by our perception that is actually more
Lorie Solis: inclusive than just what's right in front of us in
Lorie Solis: any moment. Does it make sense to you? How are you feeling about it? It
Joanne Lockwood: does. As you're talking, I'm I'm kinda thinking, I feel a bit
Joanne Lockwood: envious because as a as a white queer woman living in the
Joanne Lockwood: UK, I don't have any sense of connection
Joanne Lockwood: to a lineage, an ancestry. My
Joanne Lockwood: ancestry really is my parents.
Joanne Lockwood: No real connection to my grandparents. I certainly wouldn't go
Joanne Lockwood: back to William the Conqueror or
Joanne Lockwood: Roman invasion or anything back 1000 of years. So my
Joanne Lockwood: connection really is, is of the moment. And I often think of my family
Joanne Lockwood: as being my parents and our children, rather than going back
Joanne Lockwood: in history. And I listen to what you're saying there about spirituality, the
Joanne Lockwood: connection, the traditions that are being brought down that are important to
Joanne Lockwood: you. I feel a bit envious and jealous that you've got something you
Joanne Lockwood: connected with something bigger whereas I'm sure many people
Joanne Lockwood: that I mix with in the UK have a very similar disconnection with
Joanne Lockwood: the history. They don't feel this lineage.
Joanne Lockwood: Yes. It's almost empty here that you're because of your indigenous
Joanne Lockwood: oppression of old and the past, that
Joanne Lockwood: oppression has caused you to be protective of what you had
Joanne Lockwood: and fight back for it. So I'm quite protective of my
Joanne Lockwood: queer heritage now. I'm more protective of that than I was
Joanne Lockwood: before but if you're straight, you're white, you're male, you're
Joanne Lockwood: this, you're that, you are the majority and therefore you never consider what
Joanne Lockwood: it's like to lose something or have to hold on tightly to something to stop
Joanne Lockwood: being taken from you. Nothing. Is that what you're saying? The the
Joanne Lockwood: lineage and the history and the spirituality you're feeling is that
Joanne Lockwood: that the fact you had to refight and hang on to what you've had?
Joanne Lockwood: You know, I think I would have had to do this. And I, you know,
Lorie Solis: I live in Europe now, and the conversations around
Lorie Solis: decolonization are different than in the states. And this has opened my
Lorie Solis: mind a lot to a lot of various
Lorie Solis: perspectives around things that I have held dear around
Lorie Solis: queerness or race issues. There is a kind of
Lorie Solis: very American centric narrative sometimes. And
Lorie Solis: so to open my perspective to what Europeans feel about this
Lorie Solis: has been really fascinating. And people from all people
Lorie Solis: from across the globe come from peoples who have
Lorie Solis: been colonized, including Europeans even though, right, it's farther back
Lorie Solis: in the historical data. So there might be some, what I would
Lorie Solis: say, somatic amnesia from the mind body. It's hard to
Lorie Solis: connect. I don't remember. It's been so long ago.
Lorie Solis: And, of course, there's also some hesitance to connect for
Lorie Solis: why? Why connect to the colonizer lineage?
Lorie Solis: Right? But even in that, there is more complexity.
Lorie Solis: There is resiliency, there's wisdom,
Lorie Solis: there's landscape, so it doesn't have to be
Lorie Solis: ancestral lineage in this way. You know, I I when I do
Lorie Solis: somatic decolonization work with people that don't
Lorie Solis: have names, places, dates, don't have access to that data,
Lorie Solis: we go into the mind body, and we trust the wisdom of that
Lorie Solis: with curiosity to see what kinds of
Lorie Solis: landscapes are we really drawn to. Where do we
Lorie Solis: feel at home? Where do we feel welcomed?
Lorie Solis: And even greater communities of care, like queer community,
Lorie Solis: has its historical lineage through over the
Lorie Solis: world over. You know, we have always had
Lorie Solis: queer people across the globe and every tradition,
Lorie Solis: right? So if that's our access point to lineage, I think
Lorie Solis: it's very rich and profound and can connect us
Lorie Solis: back in a way that's like, I'm not alone. I could never
Lorie Solis: be alone even when I'm feeling lonely. And I think
Lorie Solis: this is important when we're in a moment of conflict because conflict can
Lorie Solis: feel like disconnection from someone I love and
Lorie Solis: care about that's saying they love and care about me, but yet they're
Lorie Solis: they're presenting some opinions or material here that's making
Lorie Solis: me feel uncared for, unseen. Right? That can
Lorie Solis: create this loneliness and isolation. And this is where trauma
Lorie Solis: can really set in, is in this prolonged feeling of
Lorie Solis: disconnect, of isolation from from
Lorie Solis: care. So I think connecting, like, connecting ourselves even if we
Lorie Solis: feel disconnected from the person sitting in front of us
Lorie Solis: temporarily or perhaps, you know, into the future,
Lorie Solis: to know that we are held connected beyond
Lorie Solis: beyond the superficial. And that the present what's in the
Lorie Solis: present moment is still more complex and dynamic than what
Lorie Solis: might meet the eye on the surface level. And this is it
Lorie Solis: might sound you know, there is a kind of esoteric, and
Lorie Solis: it is spiritual. Right? And the somatic process is
Lorie Solis: really about landing it in a very practical way. How how does
Lorie Solis: one connect? How does one feel these things? How does
Lorie Solis: one apply what they feel then to a difficult conversation?
Lorie Solis: And this is what the training is about. It's about landing
Lorie Solis: these ideas into the mind body so that we're
Lorie Solis: actually living it. We're embodying it in a way that feels authentic to
Lorie Solis: us individually and that makes sense in the context of our
Lorie Solis: relationship and the life that we are wanting to create for ourselves.
Joanne Lockwood: As you're speaking there, you talked about being alone and being
Joanne Lockwood: lonely. And as you were talking, I was listening to you and it sort of
Joanne Lockwood: popped into my head. I finally understand why there's a difference.
Joanne Lockwood: Lonely is a feeling. I feel lonely. Alone
Joanne Lockwood: is a reality. It's a situation you're in. So you can
Joanne Lockwood: be alone and still lonely. You can
Joanne Lockwood: be in amongst people and still be lonely if you haven't got that sense of
Joanne Lockwood: belonging. Because if you don't feel connected with the environment you're
Joanne Lockwood: in, no matter how many people are there, you're going to feel alone. You're going
Joanne Lockwood: to feel lonely. And it's finding that that
Joanne Lockwood: tribe, that that crowd, that group,
Joanne Lockwood: that environment where you feel part of it.
Joanne Lockwood: So you don't feel lonely, you feel engaged and
Joanne Lockwood: committed and belonging. And I think, I've listened to that. That really just
Joanne Lockwood: popped out into my head as you're talking. I've really tried to orient
Lorie Solis: myself more truly to
Lorie Solis: what I perceive is reality. And What I
Lorie Solis: perceive is that we can never be alone. For me, it's just not
Lorie Solis: true. Like I am part of this interconnected whole.
Lorie Solis: And so this invites me to be more precise with my language,
Lorie Solis: because I notice not only what my language
Lorie Solis: indicates about how I'm feeling. So if I find myself saying
Lorie Solis: I'm alone, this is like an existential
Lorie Solis: state of being where I am feeling disconnected from
Lorie Solis: everything that I know darn good and well that I'm connected to,
Lorie Solis: but I'm not feeling it. And this informs me of, oh, I'm
Lorie Solis: not feeling these connections. Here's what I can do based on what I've learned in
Lorie Solis: my somatic practice. What's happening is I'm feeling
Lorie Solis: there is a difference of feeling lonely, but I could never be
Lorie Solis: alone. And this is the
Lorie Solis: reality for many people right now is that we are lonely.
Lorie Solis: People are lonely. It's this epidemic they've said of loneliness. And
Lorie Solis: so I get very curious as people are learning about how to
Lorie Solis: get out there and how to build community and find their tribe, which is a
Lorie Solis: whole work unto itself. Can we still feel
Lorie Solis: connected in the here and now while we're out there doing
Lorie Solis: this work of addressing our loneliness? Can we know that
Lorie Solis: we're not alone and, like, root into
Lorie Solis: that medicine? And how does that inform? Because
Lorie Solis: once we go out there and find our tribe, we're probably gonna find some
Lorie Solis: conflict. And so
Lorie Solis: I don't want our relationships to be so fragile. Our very innate
Lorie Solis: need for safety and belonging and dignity. Right? We'll be
Lorie Solis: challenged in ways that we don't expect, I think. So So I want there to
Lorie Solis: be space for that nuance. Yeah. So that when we feel
Lorie Solis: lonely, we don't have to get into the existential, I am
Lorie Solis: alone. No one gets it. I am, you know,
Lorie Solis: uniquely abandoned by the intelligence of the world.
Lorie Solis: It's I just try to remind myself that
Lorie Solis: it's maybe ecologically not true. But you you
Joanne Lockwood: must have had to when you when you so you
Joanne Lockwood: brought up in Texas, you got Puerto Rican ancestry and background
Joanne Lockwood: and indigenous lineage, all this all the various aspects of your
Joanne Lockwood: identity. And you just picked everything up, flew
Joanne Lockwood: 5,000 odd miles and ends up in Portugal. Did you do
Joanne Lockwood: that literally as a lift and shift, or did you have family
Joanne Lockwood: or friends, or you just went, hey. I've I've had enough of you checking out.
Joanne Lockwood: Let's figure it out as I get there. I think it was a long time
Lorie Solis: coming. It was a bit of both. After
Lorie Solis: yeah. In 20 from 2012
Lorie Solis: till 2017, I had a series of tragedies
Lorie Solis: in my life and very challenging experiences.
Lorie Solis: And that within the political climate of the
Lorie Solis: time, I was feeling really increasingly unwell.
Lorie Solis: And I had been, yeah, somewhat used to
Lorie Solis: traveling, so kind of open to moving around and exploring.
Lorie Solis: I've gotten married, and my partner was also kind of
Lorie Solis: open to it. We had had a child, and that person
Lorie Solis: was still young. So we're like, we could pack them up and go.
Lorie Solis: And I think we just took a chance. You know, I needed somewhere
Lorie Solis: that felt safe. And I always you know, I'm
Lorie Solis: not someone that kind of considered myself
Lorie Solis: afraid, But I have been, and I
Lorie Solis: am. And I feel like I never really understood what it
Lorie Solis: felt like to be safe until I moved
Lorie Solis: somewhere where there are no guns, where violence is at
Lorie Solis: an absolute minimum. Like, nothing
Lorie Solis: for me. This is how I experience it, and I'm a bit of a hermit.
Lorie Solis: And so my experience maybe is not
Lorie Solis: the same for everybody else, understandably. And yet for my
Lorie Solis: healing my own nervous system, my own traumas
Lorie Solis: that were coming up in that period before we left.
Lorie Solis: To have a space, like, literal space
Lorie Solis: and time to be with those things
Lorie Solis: gave me the opportunity for healing on a level that I didn't even know
Lorie Solis: that I needed. And I'm not sure I wanted to know at the time that
Lorie Solis: I needed, but I think that was the opportunity. So even
Lorie Solis: some of the stuff around colonialism, like, I live very
Lorie Solis: close to the 1st slave market here in
Lorie Solis: Europe. I didn't know this was here and I didn't know that on some
Lorie Solis: level I was being asked to move to Europe to heal this discrepancy
Lorie Solis: between my internal colonized and colonizer. This was not part of our
Lorie Solis: conversation when we were talking about moving here.
Lorie Solis: And today, it's very clear that this was part of the
Lorie Solis: opportunity to be here, which of course also informs
Lorie Solis: of this work of of acknowledging that we
Lorie Solis: are expansive beings and the 2 boxes
Lorie Solis: don't do it for even most of us, dare I say.
Joanne Lockwood: Export Portuguese people were one of the big
Joanne Lockwood: colonisers at the time. You know, Spain,
Joanne Lockwood: Portugal, France, United Kingdom, the Dutch.
Lorie Solis: Of course. We all, sailed sailed the 7 seas and
Joanne Lockwood: and exported our values and stole resources. And, yeah. And
Lorie Solis: this is this is who I'm surrounded by, all of these nationalities that
Lorie Solis: you've described. Yeah. This is who
Lorie Solis: I'm with. And, you know, the truth is I, of course, also have Spanish
Lorie Solis: colonial blood, should I say, as descendant from
Lorie Solis: a Puerto Rican woman. And my dad is also Mexican American and
Lorie Solis: native, you know, American. This is the Spanish colonial influence
Lorie Solis: is certainly something I'm close with, but it's not something I claimed. We kind
Lorie Solis: of we had our own identities that were more state
Lorie Solis: centric or, like, relevant to us, and I realized
Lorie Solis: that there was definitely some disclaiming that was happening, some
Lorie Solis: judgment, some ostracizing of some of our people.
Lorie Solis: And so in our lineage. So what it meant for me to be here
Lorie Solis: and as well reintegrate and claim
Lorie Solis: that part of my line, that part
Lorie Solis: of my history to feel that I do belong here on the Iberian Peninsula as
Lorie Solis: well on some level has been really fascinating because I am a guest in a
Lorie Solis: foreign land in a way. And at the same time, I
Lorie Solis: have very real roots
Lorie Solis: on the Iberian Peninsula that have also
Lorie Solis: helped me in this work of stepping
Lorie Solis: into this. It can be a very volatile space
Lorie Solis: with people, where 2 seemingly
Lorie Solis: opposite things are wanting to be reconciled,
Lorie Solis: but it can feel very dangerous sometimes. That so the
Joanne Lockwood: the Hispanic, Latino part of your identity probably
Joanne Lockwood: means more to you coming from the States
Joanne Lockwood: than it does to the indigenous population of Portugal and Spain, that they just
Joanne Lockwood: are. Whereas you feel that connection, whereas they just had
Joanne Lockwood: it all their lives maybe. Maybe. I mean, I feel that people are
Lorie Solis: proud of who they are here and that have a connection to culture
Lorie Solis: and history and lineage. There is a kind of established
Lorie Solis: sense of who we are. And in the
Lorie Solis: states, it's interestingly mixed because we do have a kind
Lorie Solis: of Americanness about us.
Lorie Solis: Even in Texas, where I'm from, we are many people are very proudly
Lorie Solis: Texan, which is unique to the rest of the country.
Lorie Solis: And in that, we're still the melting pot. There are still people from
Lorie Solis: the descendants of enslaved people. There is indigenous
Lorie Solis: people all around us all the time. There you know, there's people from all
Lorie Solis: over the world. So I don't know. I
Lorie Solis: do see that people, especially when we open the conversation or the
Lorie Solis: possibility for people to connect to
Lorie Solis: who they feel they are in the context of lineage or
Lorie Solis: land or ancestry. I've seen that people are a little bit
Lorie Solis: sometimes hesitant to go there. I think there's some, like,
Lorie Solis: tension around identity and lineage and ancestry,
Lorie Solis: and I'm very curious about that. And yet when we can open it from a
Lorie Solis: place of curiosity and resilience,
Lorie Solis: I think it's beautiful to and important
Lorie Solis: to connect with the complexity of our our
Lorie Solis: lineages. Right? Not just, oh, you're from the colonizer lineage? You're
Lorie Solis: out. Like, it's not it's not so simple. And, of course,
Lorie Solis: people don't wanna connect in that way or feel welcomed into the
Lorie Solis: conversation. It's not it's not generative.
Lorie Solis: Right? And maybe that's sometimes where people are. I think when
Lorie Solis: there there might be a time in people's in our lives
Lorie Solis: when options do get limited, when we feel hurt or scared
Lorie Solis: or threatened, or we're just redefining our boundaries for ourselves. Like, this is
Lorie Solis: what I'm opening myself to, and this is what I'm not open for.
Lorie Solis: You know, there might not be that space for
Lorie Solis: complexity and curiosity and all those things. I think that can
Lorie Solis: that's okay too. If we can be transparent about it
Lorie Solis: and still be compassionate, I think it's time
Lorie Solis: reduction, to be honest with each other about where we're
Lorie Solis: really at and what kind of complexity or not that we can
Lorie Solis: really be in. And I trust that. I trust that it's in
Lorie Solis: service still to somebody's becoming
Lorie Solis: even if I don't like it, even if I wish there was more space for
Lorie Solis: something. You know, when I hear a no or, like, this is
Lorie Solis: my limit for this conversation, it's important for me to
Lorie Solis: respect that. And that, I think, is still part of of the
Lorie Solis: generative process also. But moving to Portugal,
Joanne Lockwood: with your lineage and background and history of family, it
Joanne Lockwood: must have inherently had a sense of belonging because as you say that
Joanne Lockwood: the culture I guess of Portugal, Spain area
Joanne Lockwood: isn't too dissimilar to I guess the Hispanic Latino culture, you probably
Joanne Lockwood: came from the same religious type family
Joanne Lockwood: values, very probably similar. How do you keep in contact though with
Joanne Lockwood: your indigenous American, if you like, culture
Joanne Lockwood: because you're now separated by 5 or 6000 miles.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Do you do you miss that that element of your identity? I do.
Lorie Solis: I do miss it, and sometimes I can feel very lonely. I I have
Lorie Solis: not yet met another Puerto Rican indigenous
Lorie Solis: Chicana, Lipan, Apache person yet. And if you're out there,
Lorie Solis: call me. No. I can feel very
Lorie Solis: lonely. And yet, I feel like my
Lorie Solis: practices, my somatic ancestral practices, you know,
Lorie Solis: as an herbalist, growing and making
Lorie Solis: medicine, growing food, being with the landscape,
Lorie Solis: communing with plants and animals. The
Lorie Solis: landscape here, the bioregion is very similar from where I'm from in
Lorie Solis: Texas. And I find that really interesting because I can see some of the
Lorie Solis: species that I know from Texas. They are endemic. Their
Lorie Solis: indigenous origin is from the Iberian Peninsula. And this
Lorie Solis: connects me. You You know, I have contacts with people from
Lorie Solis: the states, and this thank God for the Internet these days and
Lorie Solis: for even social media, which allows me to feel connected. But
Lorie Solis: really the most profound connection
Lorie Solis: comes from the mind body, from the somatic place
Lorie Solis: of knowing that I am connected. And I'm someone
Lorie Solis: who's chosen to live kind of as an edge worker. I've
Lorie Solis: never been smack dab in the middle of any one of the
Lorie Solis: communities that I identify with with queer community
Lorie Solis: with it. I'm always on the edge of these of of the in
Lorie Solis: between space. And that can feel
Lorie Solis: lonely. That can feel like I'm being misunderstood. That can
Lorie Solis: feel like I'm a threat to one side or the other. And
Lorie Solis: somehow that has been my path and calling and my choice.
Lorie Solis: So including my own needs around
Lorie Solis: connection. Yeah. It's I really take that as my own
Lorie Solis: opportunity and responsibility to practice, not just, like, go find
Lorie Solis: it, but to embody it, to embody the knowing that I am
Lorie Solis: connected no matter where I am. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: That's very powerful because you you've got that
Joanne Lockwood: deeper sense of self at a in a level, not superficial level. I can I
Joanne Lockwood: can feel that? And say even though you can feel lonely in
Joanne Lockwood: places, you've still got that that inherent connection
Joanne Lockwood: with the world, with the earth, with the land, and
Joanne Lockwood: that transcends distance as well. And that's the
Lorie Solis: medicine, you know, because I, through all these practices, have
Lorie Solis: come to know myself intimately and also through being willing to
Lorie Solis: come to know myself through the experience of people I love, which
Lorie Solis: is a whole another thing. Especially when they're not like
Lorie Solis: me of being willing to know myself through their eyes.
Lorie Solis: And I know that when I start to feel lonely or
Lorie Solis: disconnected, that can lead to
Lorie Solis: crabiness, resentment, some hostility, some
Lorie Solis: bitchiness. Right? And then I'm more apt to create
Lorie Solis: conflict. When I when what I need is connection.
Lorie Solis: I'm I'm starting to, like, create this conflict in myself and feed that,
Lorie Solis: and then I'm creating with other people, and I'm seeing that no one gets
Lorie Solis: me, and all these people blah blah blah, and, you know,
Lorie Solis: I'm creating this whole situation. And this I get curious about because
Lorie Solis: I feel like there's my opportunity for the healing that I
Lorie Solis: need. And I can't always see it in the moment, of course, because sometimes
Lorie Solis: I'm just neck deep in the conflict. And I have to
Lorie Solis: act it all out. And then later on, I'm like, man, I missed the opportunity,
Lorie Solis: and now I have to go repair. And that's part of it too.
Lorie Solis: That's part of it too for sure.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's so much easier to coach than it is to do,
Joanne Lockwood: isn't it? It's For sure. You know the techniques, and I'm sure
Joanne Lockwood: despite knowing the techniques, you find yourself, as you say, having to reflect
Joanne Lockwood: afterwards and go, could have been better there. Could have tried
Joanne Lockwood: something different. And that's part of it. I think we're so also
Lorie Solis: repair, relational repair, we're not so trained in and
Lorie Solis: perhaps practiced in. That's so much part of
Lorie Solis: it. And as a kind of edge worker, I feel like I've
Lorie Solis: had a lot of experience in making mistakes
Lorie Solis: in an effort to help and show up and advocate. And it's like, oh, that
Lorie Solis: wasn't quite it. And so how to be in that repair
Lorie Solis: cycle, which is part of building resiliency, which
Lorie Solis: maintains dignity and belonging. I've had a lot of experience and with
Lorie Solis: lots of different kinds of communities. And sometimes it
Lorie Solis: feels lonely because I I need that too. I need that.
Lorie Solis: I don't think I've always received it as skillfully as I like
Lorie Solis: to hope that I give it. And I've realized
Lorie Solis: that there's a skill on the other side too of, like, allowing
Lorie Solis: myself to be connected with imperfectly. Like, let
Lorie Solis: myself be loved imperfectly. And that has
Lorie Solis: been a deeply humbling practice
Lorie Solis: for me. Even though the people I'm around are maybe
Lorie Solis: not relationship, you know, workers
Lorie Solis: like I am, they don't have the same skill set, and they're not doing it
Lorie Solis: just like I would do it. They're doing it in their own way. And
Lorie Solis: let me acknowledge that. See it, feel it, and receive
Lorie Solis: it has been really important for me.
Joanne Lockwood: Well, I'm in a I'm in a situation. I can feel the
Joanne Lockwood: little quake developing, just little ripples and the bit of
Joanne Lockwood: judgment. How can I put myself in a mindset
Joanne Lockwood: where I'm receptive to thinking, hang on a minute, this is going to escalate,
Joanne Lockwood: the conflict is going to grow? How can I start to deescalate? How can I
Joanne Lockwood: what techniques can I use in conversations or in thinking
Joanne Lockwood: to to help me deescalate? Thank you for asking this question. It
Lorie Solis: really brings us to the, like, practical. It all sounds great.
Lorie Solis: What do I do? And I just wanna
Lorie Solis: say I love this moment when we feel that quake. Because in me, I can
Lorie Solis: feel like, man, I could really destroy this whole thing.
Lorie Solis: Like, or maybe there's another option.
Lorie Solis: So somatically, one thing I this is the
Lorie Solis: first step of my of the somatic first aid
Lorie Solis: protocol. So there's claiming each other is the name of it, and then we have
Lorie Solis: this acronym, claim us. What do you do
Lorie Solis: when there's a conflict? Claim us. It's
Lorie Solis: about holding both of us in reference and care, not just me or
Lorie Solis: you. It has to be me or you. And the first step is what I
Lorie Solis: call connect to love. It's the c l. And practically, we
Lorie Solis: explore this for many different ways because what that means can
Lorie Solis: be many different things. One thing I find really
Lorie Solis: effective is literally to sit back in your chair.
Lorie Solis: If you it's not uncommon that when conflict starts yes.
Lorie Solis: See, I see you just getting comfortable.
Lorie Solis: Does it change something for you when you kind of sit back? Do you notice
Lorie Solis: a change in perception? Yeah. Ready to
Joanne Lockwood: engage. Yeah. Yeah. Thinking actively leaning
Joanne Lockwood: in. Yeah. But then when you sit back, do do you notice that something
Lorie Solis: slightly changes as opposed to the leaning in when you sit back?
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Probably less focus, maybe, more
Joanne Lockwood: more drifting, whereas leaning sitting up, leaning in.
Joanne Lockwood: I'm here to here to do, here to think. Yeah. I saw you as
Lorie Solis: well, like, move your neck. You were you kind of oriented. You
Lorie Solis: saw the space around you. Your eyes moved around.
Lorie Solis: So when the conflict starts to happen, it's normal that we
Lorie Solis: start to, like, lean in and narrow in with our vision, and
Lorie Solis: it has this kind of intensity about it. And maybe we
Lorie Solis: don't intend this kind of threatening posture,
Lorie Solis: but we're picking up on it because we're mammals, and that's what we do.
Lorie Solis: Right? So when we notice in ourselves when conflict starts to
Lorie Solis: happen, it's like, oh, I start to narrow in, all of my senses come in,
Lorie Solis: I'm leaning forward, something's happening, I wanna be engaged.
Lorie Solis: Still keep that orientation
Lorie Solis: towards engagement, but literally sit back in your seat.
Lorie Solis: It it can
Lorie Solis: remove in our own mind body. It re
Lorie Solis: patterns this embodiment of threat
Lorie Solis: to this openness of possibility. It's
Lorie Solis: like, okay. Something serious is happening, and I wanna be here for it.
Lorie Solis: But let me embody something a little bit more
Lorie Solis: relaxed, open for possibility. This
Lorie Solis: engages the dorsal vagal part of our nervous system, which innervates
Lorie Solis: our back body. Right? I
Lorie Solis: saw this this chart of the
Lorie Solis: blended states of the nervous system, and they had the
Lorie Solis: embodiment of intimacy as the blended
Lorie Solis: state between dorsal vagal life threat, like you're about to
Lorie Solis: die, dorsal vagal shutdown, And ventral
Lorie Solis: vagal, safety and connection. You're gonna
Lorie Solis: die, and you're in deep connection. And I thought this was
Lorie Solis: amazing as a as a suggestion
Lorie Solis: that this is what embodiment intimacy is.
Lorie Solis: And it reminds me of this when we sit back of, like,
Lorie Solis: okay. There's a threat. Something's happening.
Lorie Solis: And I'm gonna sit back and be open to the connection. So We're
Lorie Solis: engaging both all of the parts of our body, hopefully,
Lorie Solis: in a way that immediately gives us another option
Lorie Solis: rather than going into conflict in a kind of typically
Lorie Solis: aggressive kind of way. And that gives us pause. It can it gives us
Lorie Solis: an opportunity for pause. Right? When I saw
Lorie Solis: you turn your neck and look around,
Lorie Solis: that's when we can look around like, oh, there's more. We can start to connect.
Lorie Solis: There's more here happening. I'm in this room.
Lorie Solis: It's 12 o'clock. Right? The conflict moment doesn't
Lorie Solis: become this humongous thing that's all encompassing.
Lorie Solis: Gives us a moment to pause and feel into what is
Lorie Solis: being asked of me. What is this other person experiencing?
Lorie Solis: What do I maybe need in this moment? And that pause,
Lorie Solis: I think a lot of harm reduction can happen in
Lorie Solis: that pause to ourselves, to the other person.
Lorie Solis: Right? And then there's then there's the whole rest of the
Lorie Solis: protocol after that.
Lorie Solis: But, yeah, I'm really passionate about this simple
Lorie Solis: movement of leaning back a little bit, which
Lorie Solis: yeah. There's someone who has been told that I can be
Lorie Solis: super intense. I think has helped other
Lorie Solis: people handle me and my intensity. If I
Lorie Solis: could just sit back and communicate from that place. So that served
Lorie Solis: me quite a lot. Must be hard trying to find
Joanne Lockwood: the right angle of leaning back. If you're not careful,
Joanne Lockwood: you communicate a kind of a not interested or whatever or
Joanne Lockwood: you're boring me or I'm not taking you
Joanne Lockwood: seriously. Whereas if you lean, as you say, lean too far forward, you're in
Joanne Lockwood: threat mode, you're hyper engaged. It's just trying to find
Joanne Lockwood: that that right spot for you, isn't it? So that you're
Joanne Lockwood: attentive, not disrespectfully not bothered, if that makes
Joanne Lockwood: sense. Sure. And I think that, like, freedom to
Lorie Solis: adjust is important. Sometimes in conflict, we start to get really
Lorie Solis: tense and rigid. So if I lean back
Lorie Solis: and I realize, actually, that's not it either. I can I can
Lorie Solis: sit back up, you know, or someone might say, like,
Lorie Solis: are you not engaged based on what they perceive?
Lorie Solis: Right? We can always be in the adjustment. I think that's part of our
Lorie Solis: adaptability. Yeah. Right? It's being flexible in
Lorie Solis: a moment when things start to feel more rigid.
Lorie Solis: Can we do both? You know, I really call
Lorie Solis: upon paradox in a way, like, urgency, moments
Lorie Solis: of urgency. I think slowing down is a congruent
Lorie Solis: response to urgency. Right? If there's a tension in the
Lorie Solis: space, can I bring ease into my mind
Lorie Solis: body so that I can hold that tension
Lorie Solis: in a good way? I always try to, like, bring in in my mind body
Lorie Solis: some balance based on what I'm perceiving. Okay. Something's tense.
Lorie Solis: Let me ease up a little
Joanne Lockwood: bit. I'm just going to What are you feeling about this? How are you feeling?
Joanne Lockwood: I'm feeling good, actually. I feel my mind's popping all over the place. I'm thinking
Joanne Lockwood: about all things we've just been talking about. I'm going to have to listen back
Joanne Lockwood: to this episode in a minute. And if anyone's listening, please give it a
Joanne Lockwood: rewind and have another look. Have another really great stuff going on here. Lorie, it's
Joanne Lockwood: been amazing talking to you. We had 20 minutes in the green room
Joanne Lockwood: beforehand as well. So we've spent a good hour and a half together. So it's
Joanne Lockwood: just fantastic. How could people get a hold of you? I mean, I'm
Joanne Lockwood: gonna check you out on LinkedIn straight away. You can come find me
Lorie Solis: in the southwest corner of Portugal and come hang out with me in
Lorie Solis: the woods at our place down here. You can
Lorie Solis: find me online at claiming each other dot org
Lorie Solis: or in my personal practice personal professional practice at
Lorie Solis: somasantum.org as well. Yeah. And
Lorie Solis: then the socials and the things, I'm on there.
Joanne Lockwood: Fabulous. So you're Lori, l o r I e.
Joanne Lockwood: Mhmm. And you're
Joanne Lockwood: Solis, s o l I s. Solis, s o l I
Lorie Solis: s. And, you know, we're opening the may I say something about
Lorie Solis: the training? Yeah. Go for it. Yeah. Please do. Yeah.
Lorie Solis: We've just opened the spring cohorts of the claiming
Lorie Solis: each other somatic first aid training, which is starting
Lorie Solis: in January. It's a 12 week
Lorie Solis: training. It's been accredited by the complimentary medical association
Lorie Solis: in the UK. There's 3 cohorts available,
Lorie Solis: and we have 2 that are being delivered right now and in person here in
Lorie Solis: Portugal and one online globally. It's going beautifully. So I
Lorie Solis: invite anybody who's really curious about generative conflict
Lorie Solis: in a way that, yeah, promotes resiliency and
Lorie Solis: healing to to join us or to reach out if they're curious and wants
Lorie Solis: want to know more about it. You asked me a question in the show
Joanne Lockwood: notes. Have you heard about research that self
Joanne Lockwood: identified conservatives were found to have enlarged amygdalas?
Joanne Lockwood: What's the theory then to the when you hold these extreme views, you
Joanne Lockwood: tend to have an heightened sense of
Joanne Lockwood: fight, flight, and fear, reaction mechanisms, the amygdala
Joanne Lockwood: kicks in? I note that this is what this the conclude
Lorie Solis: this is what the conclusions are, right, of this research or the lines that
Lorie Solis: they were drawing that people who have this kind of leaning in their
Lorie Solis: ideology are maybe coming from a more external
Lorie Solis: threat oriented place. And people with more,
Lorie Solis: like, liberal or progressive views are they're activated with their
Lorie Solis: insula in the brain, which is able to actually handle more complexity
Lorie Solis: without the perception of external threat. So I was getting
Lorie Solis: curious about this because I want to
Lorie Solis: open my I want to open this work across the spectrum of
Lorie Solis: peoples, and I find that maybe who's drawn to
Lorie Solis: it? Maybe are more people who maybe are more left
Lorie Solis: leaning already or maybe a bit, you know, left of center.
Lorie Solis: And I really wanna reach more people.
Lorie Solis: And that research gave me interesting
Lorie Solis: insight from a somatic perspective. Right? When I study
Lorie Solis: the nervous system, we we do nervous system study in the
Lorie Solis: training. I think it's really important to be able to
Lorie Solis: accurately assess in ourselves and then somebody else what is
Lorie Solis: happening. And there's a lot of moralizing of people's
Lorie Solis: emotional states, like looking down on fear and judging
Lorie Solis: that. And I think it's really important to be respectful
Lorie Solis: of of whatever people are experiencing
Lorie Solis: and care about that. If somebody is afraid for something
Lorie Solis: important about their values, about their own life, about
Lorie Solis: something they care about, To be curious about that,
Lorie Solis: I think, is very important in the process of coming
Lorie Solis: into a place of good relationality and not escalating it
Lorie Solis: and destroying everything. So it gave me just a,
Lorie Solis: yeah, a moment of consideration for how
Lorie Solis: I might speak to people or be with them without assuming that
Lorie Solis: that's what everybody's experiencing, who has this purse you know, has these
Lorie Solis: choices around their ideology. No need to assume. But
Lorie Solis: it did make me curious, and I was wondering if you had, I
Lorie Solis: don't know, what you felt about that. I'm now curious as well. I
Joanne Lockwood: think, should we leave that with our our listeners?
Joanne Lockwood: What do you think? Lorie would love to hear what you think about this. So
Joanne Lockwood: yeah, let's, let us know. Do people with extreme
Joanne Lockwood: views or have enlarged amygdala, a sense
Joanne Lockwood: of justice, a sense of fight flight of fear, a sense of losing
Joanne Lockwood: something, protectionism, whatever it may be. So, yeah, it's,
Joanne Lockwood: love to hear from you. So, Lorie, thank you so much. I
Joanne Lockwood: really appreciate your time. Thank you. I really appreciate you.
Joanne Lockwood: As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to
Joanne Lockwood: express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for
Joanne Lockwood: lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion.
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