WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.680 --> 00:00:11.460 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 2 00:00:11.519 --> 00:00:15.304 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 3 00:00:15.525 --> 00:00:18.965 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 4 00:00:18.965 --> 00:00:22.664 inclusion, belonging, and societal transformation. 5 00:00:23.365 --> 00:00:26.805 Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world where 6 00:00:26.805 --> 00:00:30.500 everyone not only belongs but thrives, you're not 7 00:00:30.500 --> 00:00:33.860 alone. Join me as we uncover the 8 00:00:33.860 --> 00:00:37.460 unseen, challenge the status quo, and share 9 00:00:37.460 --> 00:00:41.300 stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive 10 00:00:41.300 --> 00:00:45.075 in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down 11 00:00:45.075 --> 00:00:48.915 after a long day, let's connect, reflect, and 12 00:00:48.915 --> 00:00:52.675 inspire action together. Don't forget, you 13 00:00:52.675 --> 00:00:56.055 can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.lockwoodseachangehappen 14 00:00:58.170 --> 00:01:01.770 dotco.uk to share your insights, or to join 15 00:01:01.770 --> 00:01:05.370 me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and 16 00:01:05.370 --> 00:01:08.730 settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of 17 00:01:08.730 --> 00:01:10.990 inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 18 00:01:15.424 --> 00:01:18.325 And today is episode 134 19 00:01:19.825 --> 00:01:23.665 with the title, Claiming Each Other. And I 20 00:01:23.665 --> 00:01:26.884 have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Lorie Solis. 21 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:31.680 Lorie is a somatic trauma worker. That's easy for 22 00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:35.460 you to say. Body worker, educator, herbalist, and healer. 23 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:40.000 And when I asked Lorie to describe her superpower, she said, she is a 24 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:43.715 dynamic woman, and has gifts of sight on many 25 00:01:43.715 --> 00:01:47.315 dimensions and can see quite well in the 26 00:01:47.315 --> 00:01:50.935 darkness. Hello, Lorie. Welcome to the show. 27 00:01:51.395 --> 00:01:55.200 Hi, Joanne. Thank you for having me. Absolute 28 00:01:55.260 --> 00:01:59.100 pleasure. Absolute pleasure. So, Lorie, tell me more about claiming each 29 00:01:59.100 --> 00:02:02.940 other and somatic healing. Claiming each other 30 00:02:02.940 --> 00:02:06.080 is what I'm calling both a personal 31 00:02:07.020 --> 00:02:10.685 life work that I'm in at the moment and as well 32 00:02:10.745 --> 00:02:14.285 a methodology and training that I've developed and 33 00:02:14.425 --> 00:02:18.045 teaching people at the moment. And it's really about 34 00:02:18.745 --> 00:02:22.205 resilient relationships, building resilient relationships 35 00:02:22.825 --> 00:02:26.370 across divides in conflict 36 00:02:26.590 --> 00:02:30.349 kind of when we least expect it, when conflict comes up within our most 37 00:02:30.349 --> 00:02:33.790 intimate circles, especially when 38 00:02:33.790 --> 00:02:37.549 things are really important conflicts, not just kind of run of the 39 00:02:37.549 --> 00:02:41.295 mill mundane conflict, but really charged 40 00:02:42.315 --> 00:02:45.775 political, personal, ancestral, intergenerational 41 00:02:46.395 --> 00:02:50.075 material that comes up in our intimate 42 00:02:50.075 --> 00:02:53.755 circles and how to handle that with care, with reverence, 43 00:02:53.755 --> 00:02:57.220 with skill to heal it in the 44 00:02:57.220 --> 00:03:00.040 context of that relationship, and to build resiliency 45 00:03:00.819 --> 00:03:04.360 for, yeah, for more skillful, compassionate relationships. 46 00:03:04.819 --> 00:03:08.284 It's interesting. I I love the way you frame that. It inflict whether it's political, 47 00:03:08.344 --> 00:03:12.105 personal, or or or other dimensions. What's the root 48 00:03:12.105 --> 00:03:15.564 cause of conflict? Where where does it where does it come from? 49 00:03:15.944 --> 00:03:19.564 Oh, man. I wish I knew a really definitive 50 00:03:19.704 --> 00:03:23.260 answer to that question. I I think of conflict 51 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:27.080 as a creative force. I like to think of conflict 52 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:30.599 as a generative potential for something, a healing that wants to 53 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:34.440 happen, the emergence of something new that is intelligent in 54 00:03:34.440 --> 00:03:38.174 its own way. So So I get curious from a somatic perspective of 55 00:03:38.174 --> 00:03:41.855 how we protect ourselves from a conflict. You know, the 56 00:03:41.855 --> 00:03:45.534 perception of threat. So it's something that we want to avoid or 57 00:03:45.534 --> 00:03:49.215 save ourselves from. But to kind of alter our 58 00:03:49.215 --> 00:03:52.140 perception, to recognize the opportunity, 59 00:03:53.320 --> 00:03:57.100 the calling, the potential, that it is an intelligent 60 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:01.000 creative force that wants to happen through us. So where does 61 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:04.140 it come from? I don't know. Maybe this innate 62 00:04:04.635 --> 00:04:08.415 creative intelligence of the cosmos may be manifesting 63 00:04:08.555 --> 00:04:12.155 through us. I don't know. I I think 64 00:04:12.155 --> 00:04:15.675 about, as I was saying, is that you can't challenge 65 00:04:15.675 --> 00:04:19.115 emotion with logic. And a lot of 66 00:04:19.115 --> 00:04:22.840 conflict is is comes out of emotion because we become 67 00:04:22.840 --> 00:04:26.520 emotionally connected with something. Yes. It's hard for us to let go of that 68 00:04:26.520 --> 00:04:29.740 emotion and that and that feeling, isn't it? Yeah. And I really 69 00:04:30.200 --> 00:04:33.745 I love that, actually. You know, I'm I'm curious 70 00:04:33.745 --> 00:04:37.365 about kind of courageous conversations and tackling 71 00:04:38.225 --> 00:04:41.825 difficult content from a really logical place, like 72 00:04:41.825 --> 00:04:45.650 debate skills, how to have solid conversations from a 73 00:04:45.650 --> 00:04:48.950 more rational, logical place with people you disagree with. 74 00:04:49.250 --> 00:04:53.010 That's one thing, and it's super important. Claiming each 75 00:04:53.010 --> 00:04:56.390 other, I think, more embraces the emotional 76 00:04:56.690 --> 00:05:00.384 charge, the reality that we are emotional beings as 77 00:05:00.384 --> 00:05:03.905 well. And when conflict comes up, there when it 78 00:05:03.905 --> 00:05:07.604 threatens, right, for example, our personhood, our dignity, 79 00:05:07.985 --> 00:05:11.360 our safety, our sense of belonging, that it's very 80 00:05:11.820 --> 00:05:14.480 rational that that has an emotional charge. 81 00:05:15.500 --> 00:05:18.880 And so instead of expecting 82 00:05:19.740 --> 00:05:23.420 that emotional content needs to be rational or needs to 83 00:05:23.420 --> 00:05:27.005 look in some other way in order for us to engage with it. I'm 84 00:05:27.005 --> 00:05:30.445 particularly devoted to being in the 85 00:05:30.445 --> 00:05:34.285 emotional content in a respectful and good way. I've 86 00:05:34.285 --> 00:05:37.824 never heard of the term somatic before. Can you enlighten 87 00:05:37.885 --> 00:05:41.140 me? Great. Somatics is a field 88 00:05:41.440 --> 00:05:45.120 of study and practice that 89 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:48.500 deals with the body mind as a unified 90 00:05:48.880 --> 00:05:52.560 whole. So as opposed you might have heard of, 91 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:56.055 like, mind body medicine, for example. So as 92 00:05:56.055 --> 00:05:59.815 opposed to cognitive approaches where we are just talking it 93 00:05:59.815 --> 00:06:03.495 out and it's the more logical and reframing or body based 94 00:06:03.495 --> 00:06:07.335 methods alone, like maybe body work. These it kind of 95 00:06:07.335 --> 00:06:10.780 joins these things. So it asks us to engage our 96 00:06:10.780 --> 00:06:14.560 whole neurobiology in order to align 97 00:06:15.020 --> 00:06:18.699 our ideas, our words, our 98 00:06:18.699 --> 00:06:21.680 thoughts with our values, and live accordingly 99 00:06:22.220 --> 00:06:25.975 to become who we want to become in the world, to be who we 100 00:06:25.975 --> 00:06:29.595 are meant to be. Does it make sense? Completely at at at one, 101 00:06:29.655 --> 00:06:33.014 aligned, you say, truly authentic in 102 00:06:33.014 --> 00:06:36.855 terms of your your values, who who you are, how people perceive 103 00:06:36.855 --> 00:06:40.700 you. Exactly. And it's hard you maybe have heard 104 00:06:40.700 --> 00:06:44.380 people have this conflict. I mean, I've had it. Maybe you've had it where it's 105 00:06:44.380 --> 00:06:48.220 like the mind is saying one thing and the body feels something else. There's 106 00:06:48.220 --> 00:06:52.060 this kind of sense of split, or we feel ambivalent how 107 00:06:52.060 --> 00:06:55.145 to be in our authenticity in a world that doesn't always 108 00:06:55.764 --> 00:06:59.525 allow us to live by our values fully. So 109 00:06:59.525 --> 00:07:02.665 how do we reconcile this ambivalence inside of ourselves 110 00:07:03.445 --> 00:07:06.264 and ourselves within the context of the larger 111 00:07:06.870 --> 00:07:10.470 world. So Maddox is about this, of using our mind body 112 00:07:10.470 --> 00:07:14.310 intelligence to make decisions, to be in 113 00:07:14.310 --> 00:07:18.150 our agency, knowing that we are not in our agency with a 114 00:07:18.150 --> 00:07:19.930 lot of the world. 115 00:07:22.065 --> 00:07:25.905 I I came across the, was it the Japanese art of a happy life, the 116 00:07:25.905 --> 00:07:29.045 ikigai, 4 or 5 years ago. And 117 00:07:29.665 --> 00:07:33.025 it really summed up for me that I was missing one of the core, one 118 00:07:33.025 --> 00:07:36.820 of the four pillars of it which is find something that 119 00:07:36.820 --> 00:07:40.660 brought me true joy and happiness personally. I was doing things to 120 00:07:40.660 --> 00:07:43.380 make money, I was doing things because I was good at it, I was doing 121 00:07:43.380 --> 00:07:46.180 all the other things. When I looked back on it I thought hang on a 122 00:07:46.180 --> 00:07:49.955 minute, I'm not getting any joy out of this, I'm going through it because 123 00:07:50.175 --> 00:07:53.935 I do. It's really hard though to stop and 124 00:07:53.935 --> 00:07:57.775 step back from that and really reflect and then say hang on a minute, 125 00:07:57.775 --> 00:08:00.895 to go forward I need to go forward with something that brings me joy as 126 00:08:00.895 --> 00:08:04.600 well and is that part of the healing process to try and figure out who 127 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:07.880 you are? For sure. I think for some people, that's a big part of the 128 00:08:07.880 --> 00:08:11.639 healing process is to explore the various states 129 00:08:11.639 --> 00:08:14.905 of our embodiment, of our human embodiment, 130 00:08:15.445 --> 00:08:18.585 and to see where there may be gaps in those experiences. 131 00:08:19.525 --> 00:08:22.905 So I definitely resonate. I think I kind of knew 132 00:08:23.445 --> 00:08:27.285 pleasure. I knew contentment. But for me, joy was kind of 133 00:08:27.285 --> 00:08:30.669 an elusive experience. I think I could 134 00:08:30.669 --> 00:08:33.809 recognize it in other people, but then feeling like, 135 00:08:34.510 --> 00:08:37.890 this one I'm not so familiar with. And 136 00:08:38.029 --> 00:08:41.649 understanding my barriers to that, 137 00:08:42.005 --> 00:08:45.445 And then what does it mean for me to embody joy, not based 138 00:08:45.445 --> 00:08:48.825 necessarily on what I see in other people and what I think that means, 139 00:08:49.205 --> 00:08:52.964 but from a body, like, what does it feel like? What is joy on 140 00:08:52.964 --> 00:08:56.800 that intimate level inside? So it's definitely, I think, 141 00:08:56.800 --> 00:08:59.540 a part of healing is to allow ourselves 142 00:09:00.560 --> 00:09:04.160 the exploration of the range, the possible range of our 143 00:09:04.160 --> 00:09:08.000 expression. We pick up all this baggage in our life, don't 144 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:11.505 we, from an early age where and then suddenly 145 00:09:11.565 --> 00:09:15.264 expectations, responsibilities and pressure and 146 00:09:16.045 --> 00:09:19.805 social constructs kick in and I hope you we all 147 00:09:19.805 --> 00:09:23.459 kind of fit into this image of what we're supposed to be rather than who 148 00:09:23.459 --> 00:09:27.180 we as you say, we're trying to find this alignment. Often sits outside 149 00:09:27.180 --> 00:09:30.080 this societal expectation, doesn't it? I suppose so. 150 00:09:31.100 --> 00:09:34.860 I always kinda felt that I I think I had a in 151 00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:38.485 my family of origin, I felt such a sense 152 00:09:38.485 --> 00:09:42.165 of acceptance and belonging for who I was, which I've come to 153 00:09:42.165 --> 00:09:45.205 see maybe just in the context of my work because I work with a lot 154 00:09:45.205 --> 00:09:48.565 of people who have not experienced that. But it does feel like 155 00:09:48.565 --> 00:09:52.370 maybe somewhat of a rarity. And as far as 156 00:09:52.370 --> 00:09:55.830 societal expectations, in many ways, I could meet those, 157 00:09:56.130 --> 00:09:59.350 but in other ways, I just couldn't. And so I felt 158 00:09:59.890 --> 00:10:03.330 in a way, although constrained in some ways, 159 00:10:03.330 --> 00:10:06.935 also liberated. Like, I can't I cannot meet these 160 00:10:06.935 --> 00:10:10.774 expectations. There's no way. So I I'm not 161 00:10:10.774 --> 00:10:13.834 sure I should even try, really. You know? 162 00:10:16.535 --> 00:10:20.180 Yeah. No. I I I agree. And I've I've been in a few 163 00:10:20.180 --> 00:10:23.860 things recently where I've realised that what I was doing wasn't 164 00:10:23.860 --> 00:10:27.700 bringing me joy. And, but it's like 165 00:10:27.700 --> 00:10:31.380 walking down a one way street, you think, oh, I'll just I'll get to the 166 00:10:31.380 --> 00:10:33.460 end, I'll get to the end, I'll get to the end and you realise there's 167 00:10:33.460 --> 00:10:36.884 no end. It's just an everlasting straight. And 168 00:10:36.884 --> 00:10:40.324 sometimes having something nudge you halfway down that road 169 00:10:40.324 --> 00:10:44.165 saying, come on, or the rules change or something changes and you 170 00:10:44.165 --> 00:10:47.365 look back and go, you're so worried about letting go of it and then you 171 00:10:47.365 --> 00:10:51.060 realise that once you've let go, you realise that was the right 172 00:10:51.060 --> 00:10:54.660 thing to happen at that particular time in your life. And rather than feel the 173 00:10:54.660 --> 00:10:58.280 disappointment or the failure or anything else you did, you go, actually, 174 00:10:59.140 --> 00:11:02.660 I was done with it anyway. I took joy from having the 175 00:11:02.660 --> 00:11:06.214 courage to step out. Yeah. And it does take courage, 176 00:11:06.214 --> 00:11:09.975 doesn't it? Even when things aren't working, quote, unquote, there's 177 00:11:09.975 --> 00:11:13.415 still, like, a comfort in the familiarity of the path that we've been 178 00:11:13.415 --> 00:11:16.980 on. So to kind of sidestep or reorient a 179 00:11:16.980 --> 00:11:20.420 different way into the great unknown, it does take courage. It's 180 00:11:20.420 --> 00:11:24.260 scary. Can be. Yeah. You mentioned 181 00:11:24.260 --> 00:11:27.700 at the beginning, when we we talk about here, it's it's in relationships. And 182 00:11:27.700 --> 00:11:31.425 sometimes relationships, whether that's intimate or 183 00:11:31.425 --> 00:11:35.265 casual, conflict does arise because we're so invested in keeping that 184 00:11:35.265 --> 00:11:38.945 relationship happy and healthy that things go unsaid 185 00:11:38.945 --> 00:11:42.625 or things we we say too much sometimes as well, don't we? Yeah. 186 00:11:42.625 --> 00:11:46.050 Absolutely. When I say intimacy, I don't just mean, like, 187 00:11:46.050 --> 00:11:49.810 romantic or sexual intimacy. I mean this, like, 188 00:11:49.810 --> 00:11:53.410 sharing ourselves and our authenticity with each other, and 189 00:11:53.410 --> 00:11:56.230 being, as you say in your show, as a sanctuary 190 00:11:57.285 --> 00:12:00.425 for our unique boldness, which I do 191 00:12:00.805 --> 00:12:04.485 thinking is inclusive of our vulnerability. That has something very much to 192 00:12:04.485 --> 00:12:07.625 do with our boldness. And, 193 00:12:08.084 --> 00:12:11.464 yeah, I do believe that conflict is inevitable on some level. 194 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:14.860 And once again, I believe that it is a generative force 195 00:12:16.040 --> 00:12:19.500 to to learn and grow and 196 00:12:20.040 --> 00:12:23.340 belong together in ways that are more profound 197 00:12:24.035 --> 00:12:27.715 than we may be stepped into the relationship realizing that we 198 00:12:27.715 --> 00:12:30.855 would be tasked with figuring out together. 199 00:12:31.635 --> 00:12:35.255 Yeah. I think we we can sometimes we could be over invested in our belief. 200 00:12:35.315 --> 00:12:38.915 That's I think that's when the conflict that's where conflict escalates, isn't it? 201 00:12:38.915 --> 00:12:42.620 Where conflict is, I want to watch this 202 00:12:42.620 --> 00:12:46.240 television programme, you want to watch that television programme. It's minor 203 00:12:46.540 --> 00:12:50.380 conflict. It's just disagreement or bickering. But when we become really, 204 00:12:50.380 --> 00:12:54.140 really invested, it becomes a kind of deal breaker. That's where the conflict starts 205 00:12:54.140 --> 00:12:57.845 to escalate up, isn't it? Absolutely. And deal breakers, I 206 00:12:57.845 --> 00:13:01.685 mean, they're real too. Right? And with claiming each other, it's not for 207 00:13:01.685 --> 00:13:05.145 me to say or decide what people 208 00:13:05.365 --> 00:13:09.120 should or should not tolerate in their relationships. You know? But in 209 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:12.580 these last years, we've seen a lot of deal breakers around really big 210 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:17.200 topics around the pandemic and around the me too movement and 211 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:20.980 Black Lives Matter and trans liberation and 212 00:13:21.425 --> 00:13:25.185 Palestine, Israel. There's these huge things in our world, and I have 213 00:13:25.185 --> 00:13:28.625 seen that people in our we, I think about, 214 00:13:28.625 --> 00:13:32.404 like, us and them. Who is in our us? 215 00:13:32.785 --> 00:13:36.510 There's a lot of diversity in that space of thought, And I'm 216 00:13:36.510 --> 00:13:40.050 very curious about how we encourage each other's 217 00:13:40.350 --> 00:13:43.730 growth and authenticity and open mindedness, 218 00:13:44.590 --> 00:13:48.290 which may result in a change of mind 219 00:13:49.035 --> 00:13:52.875 that may make us uncomfortable with each other, and how 220 00:13:52.875 --> 00:13:56.175 we can potentially stay in belonging 221 00:13:56.475 --> 00:13:59.995 together and create this sanctuary. Can we create 222 00:13:59.995 --> 00:14:03.760 sanctuary together when we start to realize that we 223 00:14:03.760 --> 00:14:07.600 are having very different experiences and thus 224 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:11.440 perceptions about some really important things? We 225 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:14.980 get very invested because of our our lived experience, don't we? So 226 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:19.175 when we look at the I mean, where are we now? This is October 227 00:14:19.235 --> 00:14:23.075 2024 we're recording this. The hostilities in 228 00:14:23.075 --> 00:14:26.835 the Middle East are escalating slowly and 229 00:14:26.835 --> 00:14:30.275 surely, well actually quite rapidly with missiles being 230 00:14:30.275 --> 00:14:33.810 thrown and people being assassinated and 231 00:14:33.810 --> 00:14:37.570 bombed and whatever. Both both sides are are 232 00:14:37.570 --> 00:14:40.930 now claiming the the right to be 233 00:14:40.930 --> 00:14:44.610 righteous here. It's really hard for someone like myself 234 00:14:44.610 --> 00:14:48.025 who is has no lived experience on either side, 235 00:14:48.725 --> 00:14:52.345 to have an opinion other than trying to crowdsource 236 00:14:52.725 --> 00:14:56.105 as much information as you can, wanting everyone to just deescalate 237 00:14:56.405 --> 00:15:00.165 because there is no future in conflict. Yes. It's how do 238 00:15:00.165 --> 00:15:03.840 we move past these things? You know, I've been investing my 239 00:15:04.540 --> 00:15:08.160 time, energy, my devotions in my community. 240 00:15:09.020 --> 00:15:12.160 I've always been very politically active on grassroots 241 00:15:12.860 --> 00:15:16.705 levels in the states. But my activism or what I consider 242 00:15:16.705 --> 00:15:19.685 my activism has really moved towards 243 00:15:20.145 --> 00:15:23.125 focusing on my community scale relationships. 244 00:15:23.905 --> 00:15:27.585 So in the community that I live in, I am in 245 00:15:27.585 --> 00:15:31.210 close relationship and contact with Israelis and 246 00:15:31.210 --> 00:15:34.190 Palestinian people who live here in Portugal. 247 00:15:35.050 --> 00:15:38.030 So I definitely have my opinions 248 00:15:38.890 --> 00:15:42.730 about the situation. I have my perspective from 249 00:15:42.730 --> 00:15:46.475 my limited investment. I am not Israeli nor Palestinian 250 00:15:46.695 --> 00:15:50.315 nor Middle Eastern. And yet, I have chosen 251 00:15:50.455 --> 00:15:54.135 to, in the spirit of claiming each other, kind of curb that 252 00:15:54.135 --> 00:15:57.815 tendency we can have to enter into debate or opinion 253 00:15:57.815 --> 00:16:00.980 sharing, or here's my perspective to center 254 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:04.880 actually the emotional content, the 255 00:16:04.880 --> 00:16:08.560 the grief, the care, the trauma of the people from, 256 00:16:08.560 --> 00:16:12.340 quote, both sides who were sitting with me and sitting in front of me. 257 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:15.635 And that challenges my opinions sometimes 258 00:16:16.095 --> 00:16:19.935 on who I think Israelis are, for example, and what I feel about the 259 00:16:19.935 --> 00:16:23.635 Israeli government to sit and care together 260 00:16:24.175 --> 00:16:27.875 and to be let in to their unique vulnerabilities. 261 00:16:28.655 --> 00:16:32.310 It's really a privilege. And I've sat with people and 262 00:16:32.310 --> 00:16:35.910 cared with people about many topics that 263 00:16:35.910 --> 00:16:39.590 have challenged some previously held convictions. Like you're saying, 264 00:16:39.590 --> 00:16:43.030 we hold really we hold really tight to our convictions based on our 265 00:16:43.030 --> 00:16:46.575 experience. And I'm still this kind of person who of 266 00:16:46.575 --> 00:16:50.095 conviction. And I wanna let myself be 267 00:16:50.095 --> 00:16:53.855 challenged for the purpose of being in good relationship with the people around 268 00:16:53.855 --> 00:16:57.154 me. And that's been a lesson, I mean, 269 00:16:57.214 --> 00:17:01.030 I'm changed many times over, and this is what 270 00:17:01.030 --> 00:17:04.470 claiming each other is really about, is letting ourself be held in the 271 00:17:04.470 --> 00:17:08.150 challenge and acknowledging that things 272 00:17:08.150 --> 00:17:11.990 are a bit more complicated than we sometimes need them to 273 00:17:11.990 --> 00:17:15.395 be when things get intense. You know, the 274 00:17:15.395 --> 00:17:18.994 tendency when there's conflict or when things start to get intense, we start to 275 00:17:18.994 --> 00:17:22.835 narrow in. The options start to feel really limited, like you're either 276 00:17:22.835 --> 00:17:26.674 with me or you're against me. And we can't always reconcile, I'm with 277 00:17:26.674 --> 00:17:30.135 you. I just feel differently about this thing. 278 00:17:30.500 --> 00:17:34.020 So it's like making that space, and this is where the somatics come in, how 279 00:17:34.020 --> 00:17:37.380 to actually make greater capacity in our mind 280 00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:40.980 body to be able to contain that complexity and the 281 00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:44.755 uncertainty of that, which is very intimate. It contains the 282 00:17:44.755 --> 00:17:48.195 threat. It contains the hope. It contains all of it. 283 00:17:48.195 --> 00:17:51.975 Right? How to sit in that and let it be generative 284 00:17:52.755 --> 00:17:56.560 for ourselves individually and potentially the relationship. Yeah. I I 285 00:17:56.560 --> 00:18:00.000 often talk about the fact that I I don't have to agree with your 286 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:03.680 opinion or belief, but I can empathise and understand your 287 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.280 why. Why do you believe that? Why is that your opinion? What is your 288 00:18:07.280 --> 00:18:10.365 background? And then I can sit there and work it out with you and go, 289 00:18:10.445 --> 00:18:13.905 I see why you would believe that. I still I still have a different view, 290 00:18:14.045 --> 00:18:17.804 but I now empathise with why you believe something, which I think we we many 291 00:18:17.804 --> 00:18:21.645 people don't really invest the time into getting that deep with 292 00:18:21.645 --> 00:18:25.165 people. They just wanna challenge the answer, not look at the working 293 00:18:25.165 --> 00:18:28.840 out. It's really a skill. You know, I appreciate 294 00:18:29.059 --> 00:18:32.740 the it's a skill that I think we can practice. I'm 295 00:18:32.740 --> 00:18:36.279 not sure that a lot of people have received, like, relationship 296 00:18:36.659 --> 00:18:40.039 training on this kind of conflict level, if at all, 297 00:18:40.580 --> 00:18:44.345 maybe. So, you know, I'm trained in first aid and in 298 00:18:44.345 --> 00:18:48.105 psychological first aid, and I was a civilian first responder. And I 299 00:18:48.105 --> 00:18:51.805 realized, like, you know, if there's an accident 300 00:18:51.865 --> 00:18:55.325 or a fire, our basic training for protection 301 00:18:55.465 --> 00:18:59.179 is probably to run away for survival. Right? 302 00:18:59.179 --> 00:19:02.940 And I I see this also in relational conflict. Our basic 303 00:19:02.940 --> 00:19:06.780 human training is this fight, flight, freeze. We have these tools at 304 00:19:06.780 --> 00:19:10.555 our disposal. But to be the person who runs into 305 00:19:10.555 --> 00:19:14.395 the burning building or to run towards whatever emergency it 306 00:19:14.395 --> 00:19:17.835 is, it requires some extra training and some extra 307 00:19:17.835 --> 00:19:21.375 skills to be confident in your capacity to handle yourself 308 00:19:21.995 --> 00:19:24.735 and whatever else in the uncertainty. 309 00:19:25.650 --> 00:19:29.330 And this is very relevant to the training of claiming each 310 00:19:29.330 --> 00:19:32.550 other. It just acknowledges, okay, we have our basic training 311 00:19:33.090 --> 00:19:36.310 to be in generative conflict together in really 312 00:19:37.090 --> 00:19:40.565 serious topics that that 313 00:19:40.565 --> 00:19:44.405 involve our histories, our lineage, our embodiments. We need we 314 00:19:44.405 --> 00:19:48.105 might need some extra skills for this one, some extra training. 315 00:19:48.485 --> 00:19:52.325 So this is where my work comes in. I mean, you you mentioned the 316 00:19:52.325 --> 00:19:56.100 word lineage then. I noticed from the the bio you sent in 317 00:19:56.100 --> 00:19:59.240 for the show around your indigenous 318 00:19:59.620 --> 00:20:03.460 lineage, First Nation, is that how you describe yourself as well? 319 00:20:03.460 --> 00:20:07.075 American Indian, indigenous American. And 320 00:20:07.075 --> 00:20:10.915 you you had a you've got a really long description with hyphens in it. I 321 00:20:10.915 --> 00:20:13.815 I couldn't pronounce all of this. Do you want do you want a 322 00:20:14.835 --> 00:20:18.675 Afrotainer or something? Is it? I don't know what I 323 00:20:18.675 --> 00:20:22.520 wrote there, but I can give you the quick hyphenated spiel of 324 00:20:22.520 --> 00:20:26.360 my makeup Go for it. If you're curious. Go for it. No. No. I'd 325 00:20:26.360 --> 00:20:30.200 love to find out more about you. Sometimes it changes based on what I'm connecting 326 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:33.660 with. I would say Afro, Taina, Chicana, 327 00:20:34.360 --> 00:20:37.275 Lipan, Apache, Texan. 328 00:20:37.975 --> 00:20:41.655 Yeah. Most of that. Boracua? Was it the wrong one? 329 00:20:41.655 --> 00:20:45.335 Boriqua. This is the indigenous name for what is now known 330 00:20:45.335 --> 00:20:49.175 as Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico, and the Caribbean. And the Taino people 331 00:20:49.175 --> 00:20:52.919 are the indigenous people of Borikeng. So Borinquen 332 00:20:52.919 --> 00:20:56.519 is the name the indigenous name of of Puerto Rico, and then the 333 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.200 indigenous tribes there are the Taino people. You've grown up with that 334 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:04.039 lineage and the stories of your ancestors, and you're connected 335 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:07.785 to the From both of them. Earth, if you like. Definitely. Planet in a 336 00:21:07.785 --> 00:21:11.305 different way. I definitely feel that this has held 337 00:21:11.305 --> 00:21:14.825 me, this connection to ancestral practices from both sides of 338 00:21:14.825 --> 00:21:18.370 my maternal and paternal lineages. And it 339 00:21:18.370 --> 00:21:22.049 definitely informs, I think, my personal capacity for 340 00:21:22.049 --> 00:21:25.590 complexity and to reconcile what sometimes 341 00:21:25.890 --> 00:21:29.030 feels like irreconcilable differences. 342 00:21:30.370 --> 00:21:34.105 How I've been able to literally embody that has 343 00:21:34.105 --> 00:21:37.644 certainly served me in my work to bring that 344 00:21:38.424 --> 00:21:42.265 to others and to practice together. I've heard people use the word 345 00:21:42.265 --> 00:21:46.105 decolonization before. How does that resonate 346 00:21:46.105 --> 00:21:49.530 with you and the work you do? When you say decolonising, that's 347 00:21:49.530 --> 00:21:53.370 removing colonisers from your life or 348 00:21:53.370 --> 00:21:56.750 from your viewpoints or? Okay, I'm curious what you 349 00:21:56.970 --> 00:22:00.804 understand it to mean, if you wouldn't mind sharing. I suppose 350 00:22:00.865 --> 00:22:04.625 decolonising, so I start from probably the the 351 00:22:04.625 --> 00:22:08.085 opposite side. So for me, colonization is an unwanted 352 00:22:08.145 --> 00:22:11.505 person taking over your space, for want of a better way of describing 353 00:22:11.505 --> 00:22:15.280 it. I come to your country. I come to your house. I want 354 00:22:15.280 --> 00:22:19.120 to take over. I want to steal your resources and expect 355 00:22:19.120 --> 00:22:22.480 you to live the way I want you to live. It's probably how I would 356 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:25.840 describe sort of colonisation, so I guess decolonisation is 357 00:22:25.840 --> 00:22:29.605 reclaiming your power. Get out of my house, get out 358 00:22:29.605 --> 00:22:33.285 of my country, get out of my head, let me live my life 359 00:22:33.285 --> 00:22:36.645 without your view of the world imposing your 360 00:22:36.645 --> 00:22:39.225 privilege, your beliefs, 361 00:22:40.380 --> 00:22:42.940 as some sort of power and control over me. I suppose it's the way I 362 00:22:42.940 --> 00:22:46.160 would probably frame that without a better definition. 363 00:22:47.100 --> 00:22:50.540 Yeah. I think when you speak to indigenous people 364 00:22:50.540 --> 00:22:54.000 across the globe, decolonization necessarily 365 00:22:54.620 --> 00:22:58.434 means land back. So there's land back movements to 366 00:22:58.434 --> 00:23:02.195 return lands stolen land from indigenous peoples. And this 367 00:23:02.195 --> 00:23:05.335 is important because indigenous peoples' lifeways, 368 00:23:05.955 --> 00:23:09.655 their lifestyles, their spirituality, the food, everything is so intimately 369 00:23:09.715 --> 00:23:13.500 connected to land. And so without access to land, people are not 370 00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:17.340 able to self 371 00:23:17.340 --> 00:23:19.760 actualize their own liberation. 372 00:23:21.260 --> 00:23:24.780 So that is a component and a very important component of 373 00:23:24.780 --> 00:23:28.435 decolonization. Now from a somatic perspective, you 374 00:23:28.435 --> 00:23:32.275 mentioned a lot of things of decolonizing our minds, our 375 00:23:32.275 --> 00:23:35.815 bodies, our relationships. And this is about examining 376 00:23:36.835 --> 00:23:40.595 where kind of dominant narratives and 377 00:23:40.595 --> 00:23:43.980 powers that be, whether it be from a legal and state 378 00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:47.660 standpoint to the medical establishment, have determined for 379 00:23:47.660 --> 00:23:51.360 us what is acceptable, what is ill, what is 380 00:23:51.660 --> 00:23:54.880 pathological, what is allowed. 381 00:23:55.020 --> 00:23:58.745 What what are the boxes for it to be checked only? Right? In 382 00:23:58.745 --> 00:24:02.265 all of the ways. So decolonization for me is 383 00:24:02.265 --> 00:24:05.705 about a deep dive into my belief 384 00:24:05.705 --> 00:24:09.100 systems and how I embody them, where those came from, 385 00:24:09.320 --> 00:24:11.980 and purposely reconnecting to my indigenous 386 00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:16.380 landscapes. Literally, the land looking to land, 387 00:24:16.760 --> 00:24:20.540 animals, ecology for wisdom that applies 388 00:24:21.424 --> 00:24:25.044 to what might seem like it doesn't like relational conflict 389 00:24:25.184 --> 00:24:28.804 or pull it the political sphere because it is interconnected. 390 00:24:29.664 --> 00:24:33.345 And, you know, all people are indigenous to 391 00:24:33.345 --> 00:24:36.620 this earth. We all come from indigenous 392 00:24:37.080 --> 00:24:40.919 lineages. And so I'm very passionate about this kind 393 00:24:40.919 --> 00:24:43.820 of not just decolonization, but reindigenization 394 00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:48.515 of ourselves to our mind bodies, and how 395 00:24:48.515 --> 00:24:51.575 to work that in the healing of our relationship, 396 00:24:52.115 --> 00:24:55.654 which I think broadens the potential for 397 00:24:56.434 --> 00:24:59.955 a deeper level of acceptance of each other even in our 398 00:24:59.955 --> 00:25:03.680 differences. Right? It allows for that complexity 399 00:25:03.980 --> 00:25:07.820 and that space for that quaking of the 400 00:25:07.820 --> 00:25:11.280 unknown inside of us can really be held when we contextualize 401 00:25:11.580 --> 00:25:15.105