WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.680 --> 00:00:11.460 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 2 00:00:11.519 --> 00:00:15.304 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 3 00:00:15.525 --> 00:00:18.965 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 4 00:00:18.965 --> 00:00:22.664 inclusion, belonging, and societal transformation. 5 00:00:23.365 --> 00:00:26.820 Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world where 6 00:00:26.820 --> 00:00:30.500 everyone not only belongs but thrives? You're not 7 00:00:30.500 --> 00:00:33.860 alone. Join me as we uncover the 8 00:00:33.860 --> 00:00:37.540 unseen, challenge the status quo, and share 9 00:00:37.540 --> 00:00:41.315 stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive 10 00:00:41.315 --> 00:00:45.075 in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down 11 00:00:45.075 --> 00:00:48.835 after a long day, let's connect, reflect, and 12 00:00:48.835 --> 00:00:52.660 inspire action together. Don't forget, you 13 00:00:52.660 --> 00:00:56.120 can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.lockwood@cchangehappen.co.uk 14 00:00:59.380 --> 00:01:03.000 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 15 00:01:03.780 --> 00:01:07.525 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 16 00:01:07.525 --> 00:01:10.985 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 17 00:01:15.525 --> 00:01:19.365 And today is episode 135 with 18 00:01:19.365 --> 00:01:22.930 the title, resilience, diversity, and 19 00:01:22.930 --> 00:01:26.289 well-being. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to 20 00:01:26.289 --> 00:01:29.670 welcome Sam Rathling. Sam is a LinkedIn 21 00:01:30.369 --> 00:01:33.765 and social selling expert, a cancer survivor, 22 00:01:34.704 --> 00:01:38.545 and a thriver. When I asked Sam to describe her 23 00:01:38.545 --> 00:01:41.924 superpower, she said, I'm also known as resilient 24 00:01:41.985 --> 00:01:45.204 rathoming. I've been through so much adversity, 25 00:01:45.985 --> 00:01:48.829 and resilience is definitely a superpower. 26 00:01:49.450 --> 00:01:53.289 Hello, Sam. Welcome to the show. Hi, Jo. Thanks so much for 27 00:01:53.289 --> 00:01:57.049 having me. It's great to be here. Absolute pleasure. I'm really 28 00:01:57.049 --> 00:02:00.429 excited to, have this conversation. We met 29 00:02:00.965 --> 00:02:04.565 probably 4, 5, 6 years ago, first time at a Professional 30 00:02:04.565 --> 00:02:08.165 Speaking Association conference, I think. We did indeed, yes. I remember it 31 00:02:08.165 --> 00:02:12.005 before. So Sam, tell me a bit more 32 00:02:12.005 --> 00:02:15.750 about your resilience, the diversity and 33 00:02:15.750 --> 00:02:18.790 the well-being. Gosh. Where do I start? I think we have a lot to cover 34 00:02:18.790 --> 00:02:22.550 on our conversation today. But, I think a little bit about me 35 00:02:22.550 --> 00:02:26.170 in terms of my background, I've been through quite a lot of different challenges, 36 00:02:26.230 --> 00:02:30.045 both business and personally, in the last number of years. So I'm a 37 00:02:30.045 --> 00:02:33.645 single mom to 3 children. I have an 11 year old, a 38 00:02:33.645 --> 00:02:37.485 15 year old, and a 17 year old. All of them have some 39 00:02:37.485 --> 00:02:40.785 form of neurodivergence, so I'm quite a champion of 40 00:02:41.270 --> 00:02:44.810 that side of things. My son, Oscar, has ADHD, Asperger's, 41 00:02:44.950 --> 00:02:48.629 and ODD. My middle child, Maya, has dyslexia, and my 42 00:02:48.629 --> 00:02:52.170 youngest child, Liliana, has just been diagnosed with ADHD. So I have 43 00:02:52.310 --> 00:02:56.114 quite a lot of experience working with neurodivergence, particularly 44 00:02:56.114 --> 00:02:59.555 within children. I'm literally 1 year on 45 00:02:59.555 --> 00:03:03.314 from finding out actually this week was the was the week that I 46 00:03:03.314 --> 00:03:06.754 went to the GP having found a lump in my left breast. 47 00:03:06.754 --> 00:03:10.420 And this week that we're recording this episode is the 48 00:03:10.420 --> 00:03:14.100 year anniversary of me going to the doctors and then 49 00:03:14.100 --> 00:03:17.940 obviously getting diagnosed with breast cancer. So I am now through my 50 00:03:17.940 --> 00:03:21.780 chemotherapy, radiotherapy, and surgery. I'm I'm on the other side 51 00:03:21.780 --> 00:03:25.424 of now my next 5 years of treatment, so obviously that's been a challenge 52 00:03:25.485 --> 00:03:29.185 over the last 12 months to deal with. And, yeah, 53 00:03:29.405 --> 00:03:32.924 quite a lot of different things in business, you know, few financial issues 54 00:03:32.924 --> 00:03:36.765 around businesses, hostile takeovers, you know, just 55 00:03:36.765 --> 00:03:40.260 various different things that I've gone through over the years. So I definitely call myself 56 00:03:40.500 --> 00:03:42.599 resilient raffling for quite a few reasons. 57 00:03:44.500 --> 00:03:48.280 But just for anyone listening, we're we're recording this mid October 58 00:03:48.340 --> 00:03:52.180 2024. Yeah. So I think I remember seeing on Facebook that you 59 00:03:52.180 --> 00:03:56.025 were ringing the bell after your last chemo session a few weeks ago. 60 00:03:56.025 --> 00:03:59.485 Is that right? No. It was, end of June 30th 61 00:03:59.625 --> 00:04:02.905 June I rang the bell because the very next day I did the race for 62 00:04:02.905 --> 00:04:06.745 life. I didn't actually run. I walked very slowly. It was like the last one 63 00:04:06.745 --> 00:04:10.240 round in about 1500, but I still did it. So yeah. 64 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:13.680 So that was a moment, though, ringing the bell after all that 65 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:17.440 brutality and what my body had been through. And, I think a 66 00:04:17.440 --> 00:04:20.959 lot of people think, though, that the bell ringing is kind of the 67 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:24.625 end, but it's really not the end at all for most people. It's it's 68 00:04:24.625 --> 00:04:28.305 a milestone definitely, but there's a lot of 69 00:04:28.305 --> 00:04:31.825 emotional and psychological trauma that comes with a cancer 70 00:04:31.825 --> 00:04:35.585 diagnosis and a cancer journey. So I've still got another 5 years of 71 00:04:35.585 --> 00:04:39.125 medication and treatment and I'm on some quite brutal medication at the moment, 72 00:04:39.900 --> 00:04:43.340 which does still mean I'm immunosuppressed and I have to treat it like I'm still 73 00:04:43.340 --> 00:04:46.940 in chemo. But the drugs are amazing now and I'm still here and I'm very 74 00:04:46.940 --> 00:04:50.540 grateful that I am still here to share my story and raise 75 00:04:50.540 --> 00:04:54.380 awareness and particularly given that it's October and it's breast cancer awareness 76 00:04:54.380 --> 00:04:58.164 month, So that's another poignant thing. So, yeah, been a 77 00:04:58.164 --> 00:05:01.925 lot. Been through quite a lot over especially over the last 5 years, I'd say. 78 00:05:01.925 --> 00:05:05.525 They've probably been my hardest 5 years if I look back on my life. 79 00:05:05.525 --> 00:05:09.220 Yeah. Yeah. When you go through something like this, 80 00:05:09.220 --> 00:05:12.900 there's a a propensity, if you like, to 81 00:05:12.900 --> 00:05:16.740 say wow, you're brave, you've all this. And I've 82 00:05:16.740 --> 00:05:20.455 been through phases in my life where people have said use the brave word to 83 00:05:20.455 --> 00:05:24.215 me. And it's a well meaning because it's coming from a point a position 84 00:05:24.215 --> 00:05:27.655 of wanting to say the right thing, wanting to show some empathy, wanting to show 85 00:05:27.655 --> 00:05:31.495 some compassion. But when people use it to you, it's 86 00:05:31.495 --> 00:05:34.790 kind of like, I'm not brave. I'm just doing what I had to do. 87 00:05:35.010 --> 00:05:38.210 Yeah. Bravery is looking back over your shoulder going, wow. That was a journey. You're 88 00:05:38.210 --> 00:05:41.490 not brave at the time, are you? No. I think I think you are strong 89 00:05:41.490 --> 00:05:45.010 because you have no option to be strong because you 90 00:05:45.010 --> 00:05:48.765 literally are just going through the motions. So you have to 91 00:05:48.765 --> 00:05:51.985 trust the process and, like, for the whole time that from diagnosis 92 00:05:52.285 --> 00:05:55.885 to, you know, going through everything when you're literally your whole life 93 00:05:55.885 --> 00:05:59.725 is determined by hospital appointments and waiting rooms and everything 94 00:05:59.725 --> 00:06:03.400 gets put on hold. You're just literally it's almost like being on a roller 95 00:06:03.400 --> 00:06:07.159 coaster that you didn't ask to get on and you cannot 96 00:06:07.159 --> 00:06:10.300 get off from. And you come off of it 97 00:06:10.919 --> 00:06:14.539 again and then you're just literally thrown into the ether because there is literally 98 00:06:14.599 --> 00:06:18.415 no support beyond, like, the physical treatment. Like, the 99 00:06:18.415 --> 00:06:21.795 the the job of the doctors and the nurses and the chemo ward is to 100 00:06:21.855 --> 00:06:25.135 get you through that. But once you're through it, it's like you're you're kind of 101 00:06:25.215 --> 00:06:28.895 the appointments stop and the you feel like you're in a safe zone the whole 102 00:06:28.895 --> 00:06:32.280 time that you're going through treatment and you've got lots of appointments because that's what's 103 00:06:32.280 --> 00:06:35.879 controlling your life, and then suddenly all of that stops. And it's 104 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:39.560 like, okay. What's next? Because now I'm in this I'm still 105 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:42.919 being treated, but you're not in that you're not on the roller coaster anymore. You're 106 00:06:42.919 --> 00:06:45.800 you're kinda off the roller coaster, but it's like, okay. What do I do next? 107 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:49.475 And speaking to lots of people that are going 108 00:06:49.475 --> 00:06:53.235 through the same journey as me through online groups and physical groups 109 00:06:53.235 --> 00:06:57.075 that I go to for support, I find that there's a lot of challenges around 110 00:06:57.075 --> 00:07:00.835 people returning to the workforce, like, who have been through a cancer 111 00:07:00.835 --> 00:07:04.340 diagnosis. And I run my own business, so I've worked all the way through. 112 00:07:04.340 --> 00:07:08.180 But a lot of the people I speak to who have been through that journey 113 00:07:08.180 --> 00:07:11.699 and then are either returning part time or full time to the 114 00:07:11.699 --> 00:07:14.759 workplace are finding navigating that 115 00:07:15.465 --> 00:07:19.064 particularly challenging, not because of them, but because of the people around them. And their 116 00:07:19.064 --> 00:07:22.444 colleagues just don't know how to handle the conversation, 117 00:07:23.465 --> 00:07:27.064 and they don't know how to integrate with that person and speak to that person 118 00:07:27.064 --> 00:07:30.620 because of what they've been through. And I I think that's a big area that 119 00:07:30.620 --> 00:07:34.139 companies need to face up to given that there are so many people being 120 00:07:34.139 --> 00:07:37.500 affected by cancer right now. I think it's a big 121 00:07:37.500 --> 00:07:41.180 area that needs to be addressed because if, 122 00:07:41.180 --> 00:07:45.005 you know, if I was working for a large organization, I had to 123 00:07:45.005 --> 00:07:48.845 transition back in. I mean, my my own friends don't even know what to say 124 00:07:48.845 --> 00:07:51.885 to me. Some of them have disappeared off the face of the planet. That's just 125 00:07:51.885 --> 00:07:55.710 what happens. But then coming back into the workplace or coming back in to 126 00:07:55.710 --> 00:07:59.550 deal with relationships that you've had before you were diagnosed, I think that's 127 00:07:59.550 --> 00:08:03.389 a big area for organisations to be aware of. Yeah. 128 00:08:03.389 --> 00:08:07.229 I probably get that, that awkwardness people must feel around 129 00:08:07.229 --> 00:08:11.075 you. I guess I'm privileged because I'm the podcast host here. I feel 130 00:08:11.075 --> 00:08:14.695 I have a right to just ask questions. And ask questions. Many people 131 00:08:14.755 --> 00:08:18.275 many people in in in your personal life are walking on 132 00:08:18.275 --> 00:08:21.090 eggshells. Do I sit a vine thing? Do I sit, what have I what have 133 00:08:21.090 --> 00:08:23.169 I? I don't know how to talk about it. Do I do I draw attention 134 00:08:23.169 --> 00:08:26.930 to the cancer? Do I talk, the brave comment? Or what do I 135 00:08:27.090 --> 00:08:30.530 people walk away because it it's scared of getting it wrong, aren't they? Yeah. They 136 00:08:30.530 --> 00:08:33.650 they, a lot of the time, just don't know what to say, so they prefer 137 00:08:33.650 --> 00:08:37.315 not to say anything at all. Whereas I'd rather someone just say to me, like, 138 00:08:37.315 --> 00:08:40.674 I literally don't know what to say to you and just start the conversation that 139 00:08:40.674 --> 00:08:43.634 way. I get quite a lot of messages. Obviously, I'm on LinkedIn a lot, so 140 00:08:43.634 --> 00:08:46.595 I get a lot of messages. People just going, look, I'm following your story, but 141 00:08:46.595 --> 00:08:49.154 I just don't know what to say to you. And I'm like, that's okay. Not 142 00:08:49.154 --> 00:08:52.120 many people do know what to say. But at least you've said something 143 00:08:52.740 --> 00:08:56.420 versus, you know, completely dismissing you or ignoring you 144 00:08:56.420 --> 00:08:59.860 or, you know, only checking in because, you know, I have that 145 00:08:59.860 --> 00:09:03.525 versus, you know, you never check-in on me before. So it's it's interesting 146 00:09:03.585 --> 00:09:07.345 the different dynamics that happen around you in terms of you know, I have 147 00:09:07.345 --> 00:09:11.185 best friends that have literally vanished. You know? They don't know 148 00:09:11.185 --> 00:09:14.785 how to handle it. And I think part of it is people not 149 00:09:14.785 --> 00:09:18.540 wanting to face up to their own mortality, and they just don't know how to 150 00:09:18.540 --> 00:09:22.139 handle it. So instead of being there and stepping up, they 151 00:09:22.139 --> 00:09:25.759 step away, and then they disappear. It's like, where did you go? 152 00:09:26.940 --> 00:09:30.699 Trying to give you space to recover, but not sure how to 153 00:09:30.699 --> 00:09:34.535 get themselves back in again, I guess. Yeah. And I and I have reached out. 154 00:09:34.535 --> 00:09:38.154 I've extended an olive branch to a couple of them who I know, you know, 155 00:09:38.375 --> 00:09:41.654 like, they have life going on as well. I get all of that. But you 156 00:09:41.654 --> 00:09:44.774 think it doesn't really take much just to drop a text to go, how you 157 00:09:44.774 --> 00:09:48.200 doing? But I'd rather that than 158 00:09:48.420 --> 00:09:51.940 radio silence, you know. It's interesting. A friend of mine, had, 159 00:09:52.660 --> 00:09:56.360 he passed he passed away, unfortunately, a couple of years ago. He had 160 00:09:56.900 --> 00:10:00.740 intestinal cancer, 2 tumours. And I went to visit him in the 161 00:10:00.740 --> 00:10:03.385 hospital in probably the last 162 00:10:04.885 --> 00:10:07.764 3 or 4 months of his life. And I tried to be as upbeat as 163 00:10:07.764 --> 00:10:11.445 possible, but I also realised that you want to try and find a 164 00:10:11.445 --> 00:10:15.204 balance in line between being laughing and joking. Not too sombre, 165 00:10:15.204 --> 00:10:18.670 not too sad, but also respect the fact he was very 166 00:10:18.670 --> 00:10:22.509 exhausted. He didn't have the strength to engage in a huge 167 00:10:22.509 --> 00:10:25.949 conversation. And it was, I wouldn't say I felt awkward, but I felt it was 168 00:10:25.949 --> 00:10:29.310 a really strange situation to be in. And my mother-in-law has been through 169 00:10:29.310 --> 00:10:32.935 palliative care, eventually passing away. My father's in 170 00:10:32.935 --> 00:10:35.675 nursing home at the moment, going through sort of some tricky times. 171 00:10:36.615 --> 00:10:40.315 And it's somehow really difficult to try and find those relatable conversational 172 00:10:40.375 --> 00:10:44.215 experiences to talk about though. Yeah, you're worried about your life, and 173 00:10:44.215 --> 00:10:47.690 I'm worried about it's it's the fact it's raining outside. It's a 174 00:10:47.690 --> 00:10:51.370 different different sort of priorities, isn't it? It is. I think I think the best 175 00:10:51.370 --> 00:10:55.130 way to handle those is just to ask the person. Everyone's different. And just to 176 00:10:55.130 --> 00:10:57.530 say, look, you know, how do you want me to show up today? Because I 177 00:10:57.530 --> 00:11:01.095 can be happy. I can be I can tell you jokes. I can make you 178 00:11:01.095 --> 00:11:04.055 laugh. I can just be here and not say anything. Like, how do you want 179 00:11:04.055 --> 00:11:07.735 me to show up for you today? And I think just asking the person 180 00:11:07.735 --> 00:11:11.570 because they will be they will have good days, bad days, ugly days. They'll 181 00:11:11.570 --> 00:11:14.210 have days when they just wanna sit and they just want some company. They'll have 182 00:11:14.210 --> 00:11:17.410 days when they wanna ignore the whole world. So I think it's just about asking 183 00:11:17.410 --> 00:11:21.090 that question and just being really open and having that chat with them to see 184 00:11:21.090 --> 00:11:24.130 how they want that's how I would handle it. Not having been on the other 185 00:11:24.130 --> 00:11:27.415 side of it. I would want someone to say, you know, how are you really 186 00:11:27.415 --> 00:11:30.395 today and how do you want me to show up for you today? And then 187 00:11:30.935 --> 00:11:34.774 you it's less less uncomfortable. Yeah. No, 188 00:11:34.774 --> 00:11:38.615 I get that completely. Yeah. When you were going through some of 189 00:11:38.615 --> 00:11:42.259 this, you must have had obviously, your own 190 00:11:42.259 --> 00:11:45.720 mortality came into the front of your mind, you suddenly realised that I'm not forever, 191 00:11:45.860 --> 00:11:49.160 I'm a bit broken, and I may not be getting fixed. 192 00:11:49.779 --> 00:11:53.139 What were the biggest fears going through your head at that stage? Are presumably your 193 00:11:53.139 --> 00:11:56.884 3 children, your business, your family? Yeah. It was 194 00:11:56.884 --> 00:12:00.245 hard. I actually wrote myself a letter. I'm gonna get a bit emotional. I wrote 195 00:12:00.245 --> 00:12:04.024 myself a letter after I'd been to the doctors, and I'd been to 196 00:12:04.884 --> 00:12:07.925 I'd found the lump, and I I didn't know what it was at that stage. 197 00:12:07.925 --> 00:12:11.310 So I didn't know what stage it was, how aggressive it was. Was I riddled 198 00:12:11.310 --> 00:12:14.670 with it? Like all these things, like when you're in this limbo period, when you 199 00:12:14.670 --> 00:12:18.130 are in the unknown, your brain just goes into this overthinking 200 00:12:18.910 --> 00:12:22.510 the world's gonna end literally, your life is gonna end and you might only have 201 00:12:22.510 --> 00:12:26.245 weeks left. But I didn't know that at that point. So of course, as a 202 00:12:26.245 --> 00:12:29.605 single mom, like, that for me my biggest concern 203 00:12:29.605 --> 00:12:33.125 immediately around my mortality was, like, what what are the 204 00:12:33.205 --> 00:12:36.885 what's gonna happen to the kids, you know? So I wrote myself a letter 205 00:12:36.885 --> 00:12:40.330 and it I read it back the other day actually, And it's about 5 pages 206 00:12:40.330 --> 00:12:42.970 long, and it's all about that. It's all about the fear of the unknown, and 207 00:12:42.970 --> 00:12:46.590 I don't know what's gonna happen and all those kinds of things. And I 208 00:12:46.970 --> 00:12:49.850 I guess we all know at some stage we are going we're not gonna be 209 00:12:49.850 --> 00:12:53.515 here forever. Right? But it really does bring it to the forefront. I mean, my 210 00:12:53.515 --> 00:12:56.955 family are all over the world, so dealing with this with my mum and dad 211 00:12:56.955 --> 00:13:00.635 in Portugal and my sisters in Australia and New Zealand, like, I literally have 212 00:13:00.635 --> 00:13:04.475 no family around me, physically around me. They have been in a couple 213 00:13:04.475 --> 00:13:08.090 of times over the last year, but I've generally kind of pretty 214 00:13:08.090 --> 00:13:11.530 much done it mostly on my own with 1 or 2 really awesome 215 00:13:11.530 --> 00:13:15.290 friends and my kids. But the biggest thing for me was 216 00:13:15.290 --> 00:13:19.050 really the children and just having everything in place 217 00:13:19.050 --> 00:13:22.545 for them and it really did kick me into gear in terms of making sure 218 00:13:22.545 --> 00:13:26.165 that I had had and have everything in place for them because, 219 00:13:26.465 --> 00:13:30.305 yeah, you literally are staring your own mortality right in 220 00:13:30.305 --> 00:13:33.765 the face. That period of time when you don't know what you're dealing with, 221 00:13:34.230 --> 00:13:37.990 all those times when you're in that limbo period, they're the hardest because you you 222 00:13:37.990 --> 00:13:41.830 just don't have a plan. You don't know what's gonna happen next. As soon as 223 00:13:41.830 --> 00:13:44.790 I found out what was happening and I had my plan and I'd met with 224 00:13:44.790 --> 00:13:47.589 my oncologist and I was like, right. Okay. It's gonna be this and this and 225 00:13:47.589 --> 00:13:51.395 this and I'm gonna be okay, hopefully. It was 226 00:13:51.395 --> 00:13:55.155 easier. But there was a couple of weeks in that early literally 227 00:13:55.155 --> 00:13:58.775 a year ago, right in this week, actually, a year ago today, 228 00:13:58.995 --> 00:14:02.649 was that. That was all going through my head. So it's very hard. Did you 229 00:14:02.649 --> 00:14:06.190 give your, tumour a name? Yeah. Larry the lump. 230 00:14:06.649 --> 00:14:10.250 Larry the lump. Oh, I love it. Is that is that part of the process 231 00:14:10.250 --> 00:14:13.449 where you're encouraged to name it, to to see you're devil or you're a beast, 232 00:14:13.449 --> 00:14:17.175 is it? I don't think you were encouraged necessarily. There's very little, like, they 233 00:14:17.175 --> 00:14:21.015 just give you leaflets. They're like, you have breast cancer. Like, here's some 234 00:14:21.015 --> 00:14:23.675 leaflets. Go and read them. It's literally like there's no 235 00:14:24.375 --> 00:14:27.975 mental, psychological support unless you go looking for 236 00:14:27.975 --> 00:14:31.575 it. There are charities out there that provide it, obviously. I mean, there's some 237 00:14:31.575 --> 00:14:35.410 amazing ones out there. But I needed to humanize it and make it 238 00:14:35.569 --> 00:14:39.410 because I I told my older kids first when I was being tested because 239 00:14:39.410 --> 00:14:41.810 I when I didn't know what it was, I said, look. This is happening for 240 00:14:41.810 --> 00:14:45.410 me. I need you to kind of be a bit, you know, flexible with me. 241 00:14:45.410 --> 00:14:48.894 I mean, I might not be myself right now, but I didn't tell my little 242 00:14:49.115 --> 00:14:52.555 my little girl. She's 11, but she's got ADHD, and she's quite 243 00:14:52.555 --> 00:14:56.154 challenged. She like, I'm her world. She doesn't have any contact with her dad 244 00:14:56.154 --> 00:14:59.834 whatsoever. So I didn't want to speak to her about it until I knew for 245 00:14:59.834 --> 00:15:03.370 sure what I was dealing with. And I called it Larry the lump when I 246 00:15:03.370 --> 00:15:07.209 had that conversation with her because I literally was like, Larry's 247 00:15:07.209 --> 00:15:11.050 gonna leave the building. And her her defense mechanism is 248 00:15:11.050 --> 00:15:14.805 humour. So which has been amazing because she's kept me laughing all the way through. 249 00:15:14.885 --> 00:15:18.645 But she's like, mum, are you gonna have a bald egghead? I'm like, yes, 250 00:15:18.645 --> 00:15:21.605 I probably will. I'm gonna lose all my hair. And she's like, really? She's like, 251 00:15:21.605 --> 00:15:24.165 can I lose mine as well? I'm like, would you do that? She's like, of 252 00:15:24.165 --> 00:15:27.685 course, I'd do that, mum. So my 2 girls actually shaved their hair 253 00:15:27.685 --> 00:15:31.350 off. We did a fundraising event for Cancer Research UK, and 254 00:15:31.570 --> 00:15:34.529 they both shaved their hair off. And they were 11 and 14 at the time, 255 00:15:34.529 --> 00:15:38.290 and I thought that was amazing. Like, my kids just doing that with 256 00:15:38.290 --> 00:15:41.490 me. You know? And they're at secondary school. They're not in a school where, you 257 00:15:41.490 --> 00:15:44.995 know, that they're that age where image is everything. And for them to do that 258 00:15:44.995 --> 00:15:47.975 was amazing. But, yeah, I think calling my lump, Larry, 259 00:15:48.595 --> 00:15:52.355 just made it a bit more, like, easy for me to have the conversation because 260 00:15:52.355 --> 00:15:56.195 that it was about removing Larry, and Larry went on holiday to America get 261 00:15:56.275 --> 00:16:00.110 to get tested and packed a suitcase. And we had all those little conversations 262 00:16:01.129 --> 00:16:04.750 because they test the tumor to see to see if 263 00:16:05.370 --> 00:16:09.209 you will benefit or not from chemotherapy. So my tumor went all the way to 264 00:16:09.209 --> 00:16:12.745 the States to get tested, to get a score out of a 100 as to 265 00:16:12.745 --> 00:16:15.545 whether or not I would need to have chemo or not. So again, that was 266 00:16:15.545 --> 00:16:19.225 an 8 week wait. And things like that just, you know, you've had the 267 00:16:19.225 --> 00:16:22.024 surgery. It's out of your body. Now you're waiting to find out if you're gonna 268 00:16:22.024 --> 00:16:25.065 go into 6 months of chemotherapy or not, but you have to wait 8 weeks 269 00:16:25.065 --> 00:16:28.880 to find that out. So it's it's those those periods are the hardest 270 00:16:28.880 --> 00:16:32.079 when you don't know what the next thing is. What was the hardest thing for 271 00:16:32.079 --> 00:16:35.760 you coming to terms with? Was it having losing 272 00:16:35.760 --> 00:16:39.139 your hair? Was it the surgery? Was it 273 00:16:39.584 --> 00:16:43.365 because steroids make you bulk up, change the shape of your face and things. 274 00:16:43.584 --> 00:16:47.024 What what happened when you looked in the mirror? What were you seeing? I hate 275 00:16:47.024 --> 00:16:50.464 I hate the mirror. I still do. I think the hardest thing for me was 276 00:16:50.464 --> 00:16:54.140 the chemotherapy. The surgery I found, I actually 277 00:16:54.140 --> 00:16:57.500 like the surgery because that for me was like the physical removal of the 278 00:16:57.500 --> 00:17:01.180 cancer. So I was like, okay. It's out of me now. So that 279 00:17:01.180 --> 00:17:05.020 was good. So I didn't mind the surgery. I had a lumpectomy, not 280 00:17:05.020 --> 00:17:08.664 a mastectomy. So I did I went into the 281 00:17:08.664 --> 00:17:11.625 consultant saying, take them both off. Like, get rid of it. Like, you know, just 282 00:17:11.625 --> 00:17:14.744 take them both off. I don't care. Like and she she said to me, Sam, 283 00:17:14.744 --> 00:17:18.424 let's just take the emotion out of this and talk medical facts and I can 284 00:17:18.424 --> 00:17:22.230 save your breasts and give you surgery and radiotherapy, and it will have 285 00:17:22.230 --> 00:17:25.990 no difference in the outcome. So we decided on a lumpectomy, so I 286 00:17:25.990 --> 00:17:29.590 didn't have, like, major it was a major surgery, but it wasn't, like, as 287 00:17:29.590 --> 00:17:33.289 big as, you know, taking both of them off. And 288 00:17:33.429 --> 00:17:37.175 when it came to the most brutal part of 289 00:17:37.175 --> 00:17:40.855 it was definitely the chemotherapy. I was not I was 290 00:17:40.855 --> 00:17:43.895 physically prepared for it. I knew it was gonna be hard. I knew I was 291 00:17:43.895 --> 00:17:47.335 gonna lose my hair. I knew all of that was gonna happen, but I had 292 00:17:47.335 --> 00:17:51.110 no comprehension of just how difficult and what a 293 00:17:51.110 --> 00:17:54.950 toll it was gonna take on my body, but and my brain in 294 00:17:54.950 --> 00:17:58.710 terms of my mental resilience that had to go through that. Just 295 00:17:58.710 --> 00:18:02.410 the the the fact that you're literally voluntarily 296 00:18:02.630 --> 00:18:06.284 walking into somewhere where you know they're gonna inject this awful 297 00:18:06.284 --> 00:18:09.965 stuff into you that's gonna make you feel so sick and 298 00:18:09.965 --> 00:18:13.725 really ill. I put on 15 kilos with the steroids in 9 299 00:18:13.725 --> 00:18:17.325 weeks. It's a lot. My face is all puffy. I lost my 300 00:18:17.325 --> 00:18:20.690 hair, like all of that stuff. I'm just so tired all the 301 00:18:20.690 --> 00:18:24.290 time. And I've just made a video the other day, actually. It's up on my 302 00:18:24.290 --> 00:18:27.890 Instagram, my TikTok, of my year end pictures. It's about a 3 minute 303 00:18:27.890 --> 00:18:31.650 video. And you can see the difference in, for me, from when I first went 304 00:18:31.650 --> 00:18:35.075 into surgery to all of the chemo. But I think that I did 305 00:18:35.075 --> 00:18:38.674 definitely hit a wall. There was about it was about the 4th 306 00:18:38.674 --> 00:18:41.475 round out of 6 and I hit a wall and I looked in the mirror 307 00:18:41.475 --> 00:18:44.355 and I took a picture of myself and I never thought I'd share it, but 308 00:18:44.355 --> 00:18:48.150 I have. And that picture for me is, like, the epitome of, 309 00:18:48.150 --> 00:18:51.530 like, the worst time in my life ever. Like, I've just 310 00:18:52.070 --> 00:18:55.750 I just felt so awful. But I'm through it now. You know? I'm through the 311 00:18:55.750 --> 00:18:58.250 other side of it, and I hope I never have to go through it again. 312 00:18:58.725 --> 00:19:02.485 But now it's about risk of recurrence and keeping it away. So I'm on 313 00:19:02.485 --> 00:19:05.865 lots of different drugs and tablets and and medications 314 00:19:06.165 --> 00:19:09.705 to prevent it from coming back. So I'm now on 315 00:19:09.765 --> 00:19:13.465 hormone treatments and targeted therapy. So I'm on, like, an oral chemotherapy, 316 00:19:14.100 --> 00:19:17.460 but I also have to have 5 years for hormone treatments, which means I'm medically 317 00:19:17.460 --> 00:19:21.140 induced into menopause now, which of course brings all of the things that 318 00:19:21.140 --> 00:19:24.580 come with that as well on top of the side effects of the drugs and 319 00:19:24.580 --> 00:19:28.355 everything the other drugs. So it's a lot, but 320 00:19:28.355 --> 00:19:31.495 it has meant that I've had to really just 321 00:19:31.795 --> 00:19:35.635 handle everything that's thrown at me. And life carries on. I still have 322 00:19:35.635 --> 00:19:38.755 to get my daughter to the athletics track 4 times a week and still have 323 00:19:38.755 --> 00:19:42.450 to get the kids to school and I still have you know, do life. 324 00:19:42.450 --> 00:19:45.970 You can't just put your whole life on hold. So I think the biggest thing 325 00:19:45.970 --> 00:19:49.650 for me was managing all of that whilst you're feeling the 326 00:19:49.650 --> 00:19:53.330 worst you've ever felt in your life and battling through the 327 00:19:53.330 --> 00:19:56.230 whole thing. Presumably your your kids 328 00:19:57.165 --> 00:20:00.865 must have matured immensely in the last 12 months. 329 00:20:01.085 --> 00:20:04.925 And I I would like to think surprised you with their their 330 00:20:04.925 --> 00:20:08.365 level of maturity that's come out. Yeah. 100%. What's something to be noticed? I'm so 331 00:20:08.365 --> 00:20:12.125 proud of them. I mean, myself and my eldest son were having some challenges a 332 00:20:12.125 --> 00:20:15.960 couple of years ago. I ended up off the back of him 333 00:20:16.020 --> 00:20:19.140 kind of going off the rails a little bit thinking I need to get a 334 00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:22.900 handle on him and decided to go sober. Like, we have that in 335 00:20:22.900 --> 00:20:26.674 common, sobriety. So I'm nearly 700 days sober now, which 336 00:20:26.674 --> 00:20:30.195 was about 10 months before I got diagnosed actually. But I have noticed a massive 337 00:20:30.195 --> 00:20:34.035 shift in his maturity. You know, he looks after me, he makes 338 00:20:34.035 --> 00:20:37.715 big cups of tea without being arsed and he hugs me lots. You 339 00:20:37.715 --> 00:20:40.800 know, he wasn't hugging me a lot because he's a he was a 16, 17 340 00:20:40.800 --> 00:20:43.760 year old boy and he was doing his own thing and whereas he's now a 341 00:20:43.760 --> 00:20:47.600 lot more caring, he's got an amazing girlfriend and I see him being like that 342 00:20:47.600 --> 00:20:50.400 with her now and it's amazing to see him doing that. So I think he's 343 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:54.225 definitely matured a lot And his perception of the world as 344 00:20:54.225 --> 00:20:57.845 a teenage old, you know, 70 year old boy is everyone's invincible. And 345 00:20:57.985 --> 00:21:01.605 clearly, I think he realizes now that, you know, not everyone is invincible. 346 00:21:01.985 --> 00:21:05.745 But I think his level of maturity has been so impressive, especially with 347 00:21:05.745 --> 00:21:09.060 all the challenges he's had in his life with him being 348 00:21:09.280 --> 00:21:13.040 mixed race, bullied in school, neurodivergent. He's got a 349 00:21:13.040 --> 00:21:16.260 lot going on, that boy. And the fact that he's handled 350 00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:20.400 this so well and amazingly has been great. My middle daughter Maya, 351 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:24.155 she's been an absolute trooper. I mean I was my mum had breast cancer 352 00:21:24.155 --> 00:21:27.915 when I was a teenager, so I do relate to how I felt. I mean, 353 00:21:27.915 --> 00:21:31.755 I I literally went turned into party girl. Like that was my way of 354 00:21:31.755 --> 00:21:35.435 handling it. I was not there and I feel bad now because I know what 355 00:21:35.435 --> 00:21:38.641 my mum was going through now. And I'm like, wow. I really should have probably 356 00:21:38.641 --> 00:21:41.868 been there more for my mum at the time. But, obviously, she had my dad 357 00:21:41.868 --> 00:21:45.095 and she had a, you know, an amazing, loving husband to support her through it, 358 00:21:45.095 --> 00:21:48.322 but I kinda went off the rails a little bit, and it really derailed me. 359 00:21:48.322 --> 00:21:51.549 And I think looking at my kids, like, that could have happened to them. It 360 00:21:51.549 --> 00:21:55.385 didn't. And Lily's just been, you know, my youngest. She's just been 361 00:21:55.765 --> 00:21:59.605 she just keeps me laughing all the time. She makes jokes out of everything, and 362 00:21:59.605 --> 00:22:03.205 she she really, like, she really does 363 00:22:03.205 --> 00:22:06.679 bring humour into the whole thing and she just makes me look at. She'll look 364 00:22:06.679 --> 00:22:10.000 at me and she'll literally she I showed her my picture of my worst day 365 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:13.679 and she just she laughed so hard. And I was like, it's 366 00:22:13.679 --> 00:22:17.520 not funny. And she's like, but it is, mom. Look at you. So, 367 00:22:17.520 --> 00:22:20.845 yeah, it's it's one of those. They all all handed it slightly differently, but I'm 368 00:22:20.845 --> 00:22:23.565 super proud of all of them. I really could not have got through it without 369 00:22:23.565 --> 00:22:27.265 them. Like, they've just been amazing. Even your worst day, 370 00:22:27.565 --> 00:22:30.924 it's best than not having that day at all, isn't it? So Actually, a 371 00:22:30.924 --> 00:22:34.730 100%. I mean, I'm it's it's so hard because, like, you talk about it and 372 00:22:34.730 --> 00:22:38.490 you think, well, I'm so grateful because, you know, my sister lost 373 00:22:38.490 --> 00:22:42.250 her best friend to cancer whilst I was being treated. And I had to 374 00:22:42.250 --> 00:22:46.090 tell her, knowing that her her best friend was dying in New 375 00:22:46.090 --> 00:22:49.875 Zealand. And I'm like, it's just, you know, a couple of 376 00:22:49.875 --> 00:22:53.475 my other friends or people I know through athletics, they've lost friends. So I know 377 00:22:53.475 --> 00:22:56.914 4 or 5 people that have died from breast cancer who I don't know necessarily 378 00:22:56.914 --> 00:23:00.674 personally, but they're connected to my network. And I think, well, I'm still here. 379 00:23:00.674 --> 00:23:04.060 And, you know, it's one of those. It's like, 380 00:23:04.600 --> 00:23:08.040 I mean, I'm glad I I mean, I found my lump. I was 47 when 381 00:23:08.040 --> 00:23:11.800 I got diagnosed. If I had waited for a mammogram, they don't 382 00:23:11.800 --> 00:23:15.365 start screening until 50. I had done a mammogram 2 383 00:23:15.365 --> 00:23:19.205 years prior and it had shown nothing at all. So my tumour had grown very 384 00:23:19.205 --> 00:23:23.044 quickly. And I was checking myself 385 00:23:23.044 --> 00:23:26.885 regularly because my mum had breast cancer and she actually had breast cancer twice and 386 00:23:26.885 --> 00:23:30.730 she also had ovarian cancer. She's still here. But everyone I 387 00:23:30.730 --> 00:23:34.330 know personally that's had it is still alive. It's the people that of people 388 00:23:34.330 --> 00:23:38.170 that have lost people. But but for me, I was just like, I need 389 00:23:38.170 --> 00:23:41.690 to check myself. And if I hadn't been checking myself, I wouldn't have found the 390 00:23:41.690 --> 00:23:45.475 lump and I wouldn't be I don't think I'd I don't believe I would still 391 00:23:45.475 --> 00:23:49.315 be here. Like if I'd have waited for my screening and not actually 392 00:23:49.315 --> 00:23:52.595 been checking myself every month. So I have it in my calendar and anyone listening 393 00:23:52.595 --> 00:23:56.340 to this, please, please, please check yourselves. There was breast tissue in the 394 00:23:56.340 --> 00:23:59.880 breast, in the collarbone and under the armpit. It's not just the 395 00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:04.180 so go watch a YouTube video and go learn how to check yourself because it 396 00:24:04.180 --> 00:24:07.645 can happen to anyone. Everyone thinks, oh, it's never going to happen to me. But 397 00:24:07.645 --> 00:24:11.485 it can literally it's not discriminative at all. It can happen to anyone. We've seen 398 00:24:11.485 --> 00:24:15.005 that with very high profile people, obviously, being diagnosed with 399 00:24:15.005 --> 00:24:18.684 cancer over the last year. So, yeah, it's one of those 400 00:24:18.684 --> 00:24:22.260 that's just I feel, you know, so 401 00:24:22.260 --> 00:24:25.460