WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.520 --> 00:00:10.880 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your 2 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:14.684 sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne 3 00:00:14.684 --> 00:00:18.365 Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the 4 00:00:18.365 --> 00:00:21.825 heart of inclusion, belonging, and societal 5 00:00:22.045 --> 00:00:25.884 transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a 6 00:00:25.884 --> 00:00:29.619 world where everyone not only belongs, but thrives, 7 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:33.760 you're not alone. Join me as we uncover the 8 00:00:33.760 --> 00:00:37.440 unseen, challenge the status quo, and share 9 00:00:37.440 --> 00:00:41.199 stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive 10 00:00:41.199 --> 00:00:44.954 in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down 11 00:00:44.954 --> 00:00:48.795 after a long day, let's connect, reflect, and 12 00:00:48.795 --> 00:00:52.555 inspire action together. Don't forget, you 13 00:00:52.555 --> 00:00:55.934 can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.lockwood 14 00:00:56.700 --> 00:01:00.060 atcchangehappen.co.uk to share your 15 00:01:00.060 --> 00:01:03.820 insights or to join me on the show. So 16 00:01:03.820 --> 00:01:07.340 adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 17 00:01:07.340 --> 00:01:10.905 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 18 00:01:14.885 --> 00:01:18.725 And today is episode 136 with 19 00:01:18.725 --> 00:01:22.510 the title, The Power of Persistence. And 20 00:01:22.510 --> 00:01:25.950 I have the absolute honor and privilege to welcome Sheena Yap 21 00:01:25.950 --> 00:01:29.630 Chan. Sheena is a keynote speaker and Wall 22 00:01:29.630 --> 00:01:33.310 Street Journal best selling author on leadership and confidence. 23 00:01:33.310 --> 00:01:36.875 When I asked Sheena to describe her superpower, she said, her superpower 24 00:01:37.255 --> 00:01:41.094 is being persistent in her mission. That has 25 00:01:41.094 --> 00:01:44.615 helped her push through so many challenges in her life. Hello, 26 00:01:44.615 --> 00:01:48.375 Sheena. Welcome to the show. Hello, Joan. Thank you so much for having 27 00:01:48.375 --> 00:01:52.170 me here. Hope you're having a fantastic day. I am. 28 00:01:52.170 --> 00:01:55.729 And, from what we're saying just now, you're in 29 00:01:55.930 --> 00:01:59.390 on the East Coast of Canada, just north of, of New York. 30 00:01:59.770 --> 00:02:03.530 Lovely part of the world. Dusheana, tell me more. The power of 31 00:02:03.530 --> 00:02:07.055 persistence. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of 32 00:02:07.055 --> 00:02:10.735 people don't realize, you know, in order to make things happen, you know, 33 00:02:10.735 --> 00:02:14.575 nothing happens overnight. Even though we see people who have 34 00:02:14.575 --> 00:02:18.329 so called overnight success, They don't realize behind the story 35 00:02:18.329 --> 00:02:21.530 they've been putting in the work day in and day out. You know, sometimes it 36 00:02:21.530 --> 00:02:25.290 could take years before they can see, you know, the light at the end of 37 00:02:25.290 --> 00:02:28.970 the tunnel. And when it comes to forging your own path, you know, we're gonna 38 00:02:28.970 --> 00:02:32.685 go through obstacles. We're gonna go through challenges and roadblocks, but it's how 39 00:02:32.685 --> 00:02:36.364 we move forward that matters the most. Right? I 40 00:02:36.364 --> 00:02:39.885 mean, I think the pandemic has been a great example of 41 00:02:39.885 --> 00:02:43.565 us persevering through one of the wildest times 42 00:02:43.565 --> 00:02:47.380 in in history, you know, being stuck at home, not knowing what was gonna 43 00:02:47.380 --> 00:02:51.140 happen, not knowing if we're gonna see the light of 44 00:02:51.140 --> 00:02:54.580 day, but we persisted. Right? We made it we made things work. We learned how 45 00:02:54.580 --> 00:02:57.940 to pivot, you know, at every given moment during the 46 00:02:57.940 --> 00:03:01.785 pandemic, and so it's just always moving forward. 47 00:03:01.785 --> 00:03:05.385 Right? And I think that power of persistence really came from my great 48 00:03:05.385 --> 00:03:08.985 grandfather when he started his business, and one of his 49 00:03:08.985 --> 00:03:12.765 values is persistence. Right? You don't give up. We get better. 50 00:03:12.825 --> 00:03:16.269 We learn from our mistakes because we're always gonna make mistakes in our 51 00:03:16.269 --> 00:03:18.769 journey, and it's not a bad thing because 52 00:03:19.790 --> 00:03:23.390 sometimes our mistakes can be our greatest opportunities. I know 53 00:03:23.390 --> 00:03:27.230 it's weird to say that because when you go to school, when you make 54 00:03:27.230 --> 00:03:30.875 a mistake, you get punished for it. Right? Not realizing in the 55 00:03:30.875 --> 00:03:34.715 real world, sometimes those mistakes is how we can solve problems, 56 00:03:34.715 --> 00:03:38.334 create new businesses, create new opportunities for other people 57 00:03:38.635 --> 00:03:42.474 around the world. So for me, yeah, I just realized 58 00:03:42.474 --> 00:03:46.269 it's like sometimes life is tough, and 59 00:03:46.569 --> 00:03:50.250 it's okay to feel our feelings. But we also have to learn to pick 60 00:03:50.250 --> 00:03:54.010 ourselves back up and keep moving forward if what we're doing is something that 61 00:03:54.010 --> 00:03:57.405 we're super passionate about, if it's in alignment with our 62 00:03:57.405 --> 00:04:01.245 values. Right? Of course, it's I think it's okay to quit things that doesn't 63 00:04:01.245 --> 00:04:04.925 align with you because we grow. We evolve as 64 00:04:04.925 --> 00:04:08.465 human beings. And so that's why we always have to look back and 65 00:04:08.730 --> 00:04:12.430 ask the right questions and say, is this the the path I'm supposed to 66 00:04:12.730 --> 00:04:16.089 be in, or is this the the purpose I'm supposed to be? If not, what 67 00:04:16.089 --> 00:04:19.690 is it? And so and we we will know because as human 68 00:04:19.690 --> 00:04:22.910 beings, you know, intuition is huge. And so, 69 00:04:23.205 --> 00:04:26.965 you know, it'll lead us to that moment even if it doesn't look 70 00:04:26.965 --> 00:04:30.485 like it. So, yeah, to me, persistence is just, you know, moving 71 00:04:30.485 --> 00:04:34.245 forward, always moving forward. Like, if you see people in the media, people of 72 00:04:34.245 --> 00:04:37.970 influence, celebrities, you know, they've all had to 73 00:04:37.970 --> 00:04:41.570 persist their way through to get to where they are. Right? I 74 00:04:41.570 --> 00:04:45.250 remember Lizzo talking about how she got started. I 75 00:04:45.250 --> 00:04:48.630 mean, she she performed at so many places, 76 00:04:49.010 --> 00:04:52.845 sometimes with for no money, sometimes for just beer, but she realized 77 00:04:52.845 --> 00:04:55.885 she had to put in the work day in and day out to get to 78 00:04:55.885 --> 00:04:59.405 where she is today. And I think it's really refreshing to hear that, especially in 79 00:04:59.405 --> 00:05:03.105 the world of social media where everything seems to be perfectly curated, 80 00:05:03.165 --> 00:05:06.690 not knowing the struggles people had to go through. And so if 81 00:05:06.690 --> 00:05:10.450 people just, I guess, are more transparent and vulnerable 82 00:05:10.450 --> 00:05:14.290 about the things that they do, it just makes it real more relatable and realize 83 00:05:14.290 --> 00:05:18.130 we're all not alone. We're in this together. We go through similar things, and it's 84 00:05:18.130 --> 00:05:21.855 just part of the journey. So that's a little bit about the 85 00:05:21.855 --> 00:05:25.455 power of persistence. Yeah. I think you touched on a few things there which which 86 00:05:25.455 --> 00:05:29.155 really resonated with me. The, that we talked about influencers, 87 00:05:29.455 --> 00:05:33.235 social media, and social media, 88 00:05:33.775 --> 00:05:37.169 most of it, I'm not saying it's a lie, but it's over 89 00:05:37.169 --> 00:05:41.009 inflating someone's sense of self and and 90 00:05:41.009 --> 00:05:44.370 their ego, whatever it may be, because you, when you're trying to create a personal 91 00:05:44.370 --> 00:05:47.569 brand, you're trying to sell the best of you on you or the or the 92 00:05:47.569 --> 00:05:51.194 your potential to get people to be attracted to you, whatever it may be. 93 00:05:51.735 --> 00:05:54.854 As you say, if you're just starting out or you you lack a bit of 94 00:05:54.854 --> 00:05:58.555 confidence, seeing everybody with their stuff together, 95 00:05:59.255 --> 00:06:03.080 it can be quite daunting, can't it? Oh, yeah. And I 96 00:06:03.080 --> 00:06:06.680 I and, you know, it's it's so easy to compare ourselves to other people with 97 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:10.360 perfectly curated photos, but I've also seen a lot of people 98 00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:14.200 on on social media who've learned to be vulnerable, who've learned to share 99 00:06:14.200 --> 00:06:17.100 their mess to the world. And it's actually 100 00:06:17.925 --> 00:06:21.365 refreshing to see that because more people are inclined to listening to them versus the 101 00:06:21.365 --> 00:06:25.125 people with the perfectly curated photos because to them, it doesn't 102 00:06:25.125 --> 00:06:28.885 makes it's not real life to them. Right? They can't relate to that. But 103 00:06:28.885 --> 00:06:32.505 if they see somebody sharing, you know, I got rejected 20 times today, 104 00:06:32.645 --> 00:06:36.160 it's like, oh, okay. So she's not the only one who gets rejected? 105 00:06:36.540 --> 00:06:40.060 This is great knowing that even though she's successful, she still goes through these things. 106 00:06:40.060 --> 00:06:43.440 She goes through imposter syndrome, self doubt, anxiety, 107 00:06:43.820 --> 00:06:47.604 you know, mom guilt, mom shame. Being able to share 108 00:06:47.604 --> 00:06:51.125 those, it's just it's just really refreshing versus, like, 109 00:06:51.125 --> 00:06:54.805 here's my perfect vacation in this perfect island with my perfect 110 00:06:55.044 --> 00:06:58.645 you know, it's it's just unattainable. And, you know, when we 111 00:06:58.645 --> 00:07:02.025 keep showing up in those, like, surface level photos, 112 00:07:02.350 --> 00:07:06.110 you know, that's when we start having, you know, mental health issues, feeling we're 113 00:07:06.110 --> 00:07:09.950 not good enough, feeling like we need to keep up with everybody, keep up 114 00:07:09.950 --> 00:07:13.310 with the Joneses. I mean, there's so many stories where you hear, 115 00:07:13.310 --> 00:07:17.115 like, people of influence or influencers who've, you 116 00:07:17.115 --> 00:07:20.955 know, spent way beyond their means and then are really bankrupt even though 117 00:07:20.955 --> 00:07:24.555 they're still showcasing that they're living this so called life versus 118 00:07:24.555 --> 00:07:28.235 just learning to live within or beyond their means. 119 00:07:28.235 --> 00:07:31.690 Right? Because not everyone can do that. Like, it doesn't 120 00:07:31.770 --> 00:07:35.610 it's it's not realistic, unfortunately. And we've I've seen 121 00:07:35.610 --> 00:07:39.130 it time and time again. You know, I I've seen so many stories and hear 122 00:07:39.130 --> 00:07:42.835 so many stories. In fact, I was on Facebook, 123 00:07:43.055 --> 00:07:46.655 and I saw a post about Keke Palmer, and she 124 00:07:46.655 --> 00:07:50.495 mentions that she lives beyond her means, like, low way below her means, I 125 00:07:50.495 --> 00:07:54.335 mean. Like, she only she still drives a Toyota. Right? And she's she's a 126 00:07:54.335 --> 00:07:58.100 phenomenal actress, very, very successful. She started her career 127 00:07:58.100 --> 00:08:01.700 at 8. But because she started her career at 8 and went 128 00:08:01.700 --> 00:08:05.380 bankrupt at 18, she realized that she had to do 129 00:08:05.380 --> 00:08:09.135 things differently. Right? So instead of, you know, 130 00:08:09.135 --> 00:08:12.975 trying to live lavishly, she lives beyond below her means. She focuses on her 131 00:08:12.975 --> 00:08:16.175 many businesses and her careers. And, of course, now that she has a child, she 132 00:08:16.175 --> 00:08:19.475 also focuses on her child. So it's really nice to see that 133 00:08:19.855 --> 00:08:23.570 versus, like, seeing everybody in private jets and and 134 00:08:23.570 --> 00:08:27.350 fancy cars, not realizing that might not even be theirs. It could be rented 135 00:08:27.650 --> 00:08:30.950 or, you know, it could be taken away because 136 00:08:31.250 --> 00:08:35.010 people are just trying to showcase this, like, perfect life 137 00:08:35.010 --> 00:08:38.565 or trying to keep up with the Joneses, and it gets exhausting. So Yeah. I'm 138 00:08:38.565 --> 00:08:41.684 just as you're talking now, I'm thinking, you know, we're we're recording this at the 139 00:08:41.684 --> 00:08:45.065 end of October in 2024, and, there was 140 00:08:45.525 --> 00:08:49.125 a, well, famous singer in the UK, Liam Payne, former One 141 00:08:49.125 --> 00:08:52.970 Direction member, who jumped off a balcony or what, I'm 142 00:08:52.970 --> 00:08:56.810 not sure the exact circumstances are known, but he obviously lived 143 00:08:56.810 --> 00:09:00.269 a very troubled life despite the appearance of having everything, 144 00:09:01.050 --> 00:09:04.810 super connected, influential people, you look at all the people paying tributes who 145 00:09:04.810 --> 00:09:08.465 come out and say there is is a great friend, clearly a battle with 146 00:09:08.465 --> 00:09:12.065 alcoholism and drugs and other and other things that was going on in his 147 00:09:12.065 --> 00:09:15.665 life. And then we look at people like Robin Williams, you know, you 148 00:09:15.665 --> 00:09:19.365 think that that he had his stuff together, Gregarious, 149 00:09:19.585 --> 00:09:23.330 outgoing actor, had had it all there, under the covers mental 150 00:09:23.330 --> 00:09:27.170 health, Heath Ledger. So we we look at these people and 151 00:09:27.170 --> 00:09:30.930 their on screen persona or their stage persona, and that often 152 00:09:30.930 --> 00:09:34.690 masks the true pain that people have, but we're aspiring to the 153 00:09:34.690 --> 00:09:37.945 on screen persona, not understanding, you know, those 154 00:09:38.505 --> 00:09:42.264 that frantic paddling under the water that's going on, trying to hold their life together 155 00:09:42.264 --> 00:09:45.945 that people go through. Yeah. I mean, it we never know, 156 00:09:45.945 --> 00:09:49.725 right, until, unfortunately, things like these happen and, you know, 157 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:54.000 mental health can look different for everybody. Just because someone's smiling on a photo doesn't 158 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:57.839 mean they're they're happy. And then I'm I'm not saying everyone's like that. Of course, 159 00:09:57.839 --> 00:10:01.600 there's people out there who are genuinely happy, but we also 160 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:05.405 have to realize there's people out there who may seem like they're happy, but, really, 161 00:10:05.405 --> 00:10:09.025 they're dying on the inside, and they have no outlet to turn to. 162 00:10:09.165 --> 00:10:13.005 Right? And, you know, trauma is huge. Right? Trauma is something 163 00:10:13.005 --> 00:10:16.845 that we never talk about, but it's needed to talk about. You know? Every 164 00:10:16.845 --> 00:10:20.470 time someone asks me, well, how do I build confidence? And I'm like, 165 00:10:20.470 --> 00:10:24.070 well, before we ask that question, what is really stopping you from 166 00:10:24.070 --> 00:10:27.590 building confidence? Like, is there a moment in your life where you were 167 00:10:27.590 --> 00:10:31.430 traumatized that really stopped you from moving forward? You know, it's really important to 168 00:10:31.430 --> 00:10:35.235 get to the root cause of why you're feeling the way you're 169 00:10:35.235 --> 00:10:39.014 feeling. It could be childhood trauma. It could be PTSD. 170 00:10:39.635 --> 00:10:42.595 It could not even just be your own trauma. It could be the trauma of 171 00:10:42.595 --> 00:10:46.274 your parents, grandparents because intergenerational trauma is very prevalent. And 172 00:10:46.274 --> 00:10:49.790 then we also have culture and gender. So, you know, there's so many different 173 00:10:49.790 --> 00:10:53.630 factors that we have to learn to to work through that root cause first 174 00:10:53.630 --> 00:10:57.310 before we can even think of, well, how can I build confidence? Because I 175 00:10:57.310 --> 00:11:00.990 can show you a million ways to build confidence, but, you know, if you're not 176 00:11:00.990 --> 00:11:04.415 there, if you're still working through a lot of trauma, 177 00:11:05.035 --> 00:11:08.495 it's not it's not gonna be beneficial. You know, I'd rather you 178 00:11:09.195 --> 00:11:12.955 figure out what that root cause is. And if you're not aware, start asking the 179 00:11:12.955 --> 00:11:16.530 right questions, start talking to the right people, you know, start 180 00:11:16.530 --> 00:11:20.310 researching. Because, of course, as humans, we can always 181 00:11:20.690 --> 00:11:24.450 sense something is wrong. Right? We can feel 182 00:11:24.450 --> 00:11:28.210 different things or see different signs from the universe, and 183 00:11:28.210 --> 00:11:30.975 then then we start to question things. Right? And then when we start to question 184 00:11:30.975 --> 00:11:34.495 things, we get curious and start trying to find the answers. And 185 00:11:34.495 --> 00:11:38.175 so, you know, mental health is really important. You know, it's 186 00:11:38.175 --> 00:11:41.910 taboo in most cultures, especially in my culture. It's something that 187 00:11:41.910 --> 00:11:45.750 we never talk about because it's considered not real. If we talk 188 00:11:45.750 --> 00:11:49.350 about it, you know, we're deemed as crazy. Right? Even 189 00:11:49.350 --> 00:11:52.890 though it's just part of maintaining your mental well-being. 190 00:11:53.270 --> 00:11:56.875 If we don't talk about it, it it it's seen as we've never 191 00:11:57.675 --> 00:12:01.435 it never existed. But, of course, it existed. It happened. And for so 192 00:12:01.435 --> 00:12:05.115 long, like, we've done the same thing over and over again, just transferring the 193 00:12:05.115 --> 00:12:08.894 trauma to the next generation, to the next generation, to the next generation 194 00:12:09.370 --> 00:12:12.910 without someone breaking that cycle, without someone saying, wait a second. 195 00:12:13.290 --> 00:12:17.130 You know? Why is it we're constantly feeling the same feelings 196 00:12:17.130 --> 00:12:20.810 or similar feelings in every generation? Maybe we need to dig a 197 00:12:20.810 --> 00:12:24.570 little bit deeper and find a, you know, a way to heal from it so 198 00:12:24.570 --> 00:12:28.245 that we don't pass it on to the next generation. And 199 00:12:28.465 --> 00:12:32.145 it's it's unfortunate that we'd had to go through all this, but at the 200 00:12:32.145 --> 00:12:35.585 same time, you know, we're aware of it now so that we can tell others, 201 00:12:35.585 --> 00:12:38.625 like, listen. You're not the only one who's going through mental health issues. You're not 202 00:12:38.625 --> 00:12:42.230 the only one who's going through pain and trauma. A lot of people are 203 00:12:42.230 --> 00:12:46.070 and aren't too sure what to do with it or not too sure 204 00:12:46.070 --> 00:12:49.290 what they can do to heal from it. Right? And everyone 205 00:12:49.430 --> 00:12:52.890 has different stories, different different 206 00:12:53.030 --> 00:12:56.795 experiences. So everyone's gonna find different ways to heal from it, 207 00:12:56.795 --> 00:13:00.475 of course. Right? Like, what may work for me might not work for you and 208 00:13:00.475 --> 00:13:03.835 vice versa because we're 2 totally different people. And so it's 209 00:13:03.835 --> 00:13:07.275 important to learn to find ways that would help you 210 00:13:07.275 --> 00:13:11.070 versus trying to follow everybody else. Especially 211 00:13:11.070 --> 00:13:14.430 in Asian color culture, we've always been told 212 00:13:14.430 --> 00:13:18.190 to live one way of life, never rock the boat because that's always 213 00:13:18.190 --> 00:13:22.030 been the formula for success for centuries. And so just 214 00:13:22.030 --> 00:13:25.535 imagine how much trauma has been transferred 215 00:13:26.155 --> 00:13:29.675 and how much we have to unlearn to create a new normal to 216 00:13:29.675 --> 00:13:33.215 make, you know, our lives better and our next generation better. 217 00:13:33.675 --> 00:13:37.115 So it's a whole cycle, unfortunately. So you 218 00:13:37.115 --> 00:13:40.899 mentioned specifically around your culture. Do you wanna 219 00:13:40.899 --> 00:13:43.779 just explain a bit background about how you think 220 00:13:44.420 --> 00:13:48.100 maybe define what your culture is and how how that has the impact on 221 00:13:48.100 --> 00:13:51.725 on people's well-being and mental health? Yeah. I grew up in 222 00:13:51.725 --> 00:13:55.345 in Asian in a very conservative Asian culture. You know, I was 223 00:13:55.485 --> 00:13:59.165 Chinese and Filipino culture and, you know, especially as women, we've been 224 00:13:59.165 --> 00:14:03.005 told different things, you know, especially, like, you have to go to school, 225 00:14:03.005 --> 00:14:06.420 get a job, never get married, never I mean, go to school, get a job, 226 00:14:06.420 --> 00:14:10.180 get married, never rock the boat, you know, never put yourself out there, 227 00:14:10.180 --> 00:14:13.860 you know, just keep yourself in the background, never make any noise. And 228 00:14:13.860 --> 00:14:16.660 because of that, we have so much repressed feelings. We feel like we're not allowed 229 00:14:16.660 --> 00:14:20.245 to share what we feel. We're not allowed to share any 230 00:14:20.245 --> 00:14:23.685 issues that we're going through. We're just told to just keep it to 231 00:14:23.685 --> 00:14:27.365 ourselves, and that really hurts us because that's when we start having confidence 232 00:14:27.365 --> 00:14:31.125 issues, mental health issues. And if we don't have an outlet to let 233 00:14:31.125 --> 00:14:34.899 it out, it's gonna it's gonna kill, like, kill us on the 234 00:14:34.899 --> 00:14:38.420 inside, unfortunately. And I've seen that time and time again with, you 235 00:14:38.420 --> 00:14:42.100 know, people who are older than me, the older 236 00:14:42.100 --> 00:14:45.795 generation. You know, you see this, like, I 237 00:14:45.795 --> 00:14:49.255 guess, this look of, like, you know, they're they're something's 238 00:14:49.555 --> 00:14:53.315 troubling them, but they're they'll never share anything because this they've 239 00:14:53.315 --> 00:14:56.775 been taught to just never share anything, to just let 240 00:14:56.835 --> 00:15:00.215 everything just take everything in, don't let anything out. 241 00:15:00.550 --> 00:15:04.310 And then in Asian culture, especially for women, we've been told to be the 242 00:15:04.310 --> 00:15:08.150 perfect daughter, the wife, the mother, the sister, etcetera. Like, 243 00:15:08.150 --> 00:15:11.830 we always had to be perfect. And for me, perfection doesn't 244 00:15:11.830 --> 00:15:15.675 exist because we're all human. We're gonna make mistakes. There's no such thing. 245 00:15:15.675 --> 00:15:19.035 But, yeah, we're always trying to chase this 246 00:15:19.035 --> 00:15:22.875 unattainable thing that doesn't make sense, and then we go through 247 00:15:22.875 --> 00:15:26.315 so much to be this perfect person when there's 248 00:15:26.475 --> 00:15:30.315 when when it's not even real. So just a 249 00:15:30.315 --> 00:15:34.060 lot of, like, cultural traditions and 250 00:15:34.060 --> 00:15:37.820 ways of living that really stops us from moving forward. And because 251 00:15:37.820 --> 00:15:40.700 of that, we go through so many issues. I mean, one of the things we 252 00:15:40.700 --> 00:15:44.380 go through too is the negative stereotypes. You know? Asian women are always 253 00:15:44.380 --> 00:15:47.925 seen as quiet, submissive, and obedient, and, you 254 00:15:47.925 --> 00:15:51.445 know, most people think that's a good thing. It's not. Right? 255 00:15:51.445 --> 00:15:55.125 Because then, you know, we're prone to so many things. We're getting taken 256 00:15:55.125 --> 00:15:58.725 advantage of, and there's sexual violence and child marriages and 257 00:15:58.725 --> 00:16:02.380 human trafficking. And this is hard stuff that people 258 00:16:02.520 --> 00:16:06.120 don't talk about but still exist today, unfortunately. And so 259 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:09.800 it's important for me to show up to be to be able to 260 00:16:09.800 --> 00:16:13.560 speak up, to put myself out there, and I don't I it's not like I 261 00:16:13.560 --> 00:16:17.385 like doing it. You know, of course, it's uncomfortable still, but I realize it's 262 00:16:17.385 --> 00:16:21.144 not just about me. It's so many other women who feel like they 263 00:16:21.144 --> 00:16:24.985 have no voice, they've been silenced, they feel invisible. And so if 264 00:16:24.985 --> 00:16:28.665 I wanted representation, it had to start with me. And all this 265 00:16:28.665 --> 00:16:32.280 really stemmed from growing up in Toronto in the midnight in 266 00:16:32.280 --> 00:16:36.040 the in the in the early nineties, not seeing anybody in the media that looked 267 00:16:36.040 --> 00:16:39.800 like me because that really hurt my own confidence. I felt 268 00:16:39.800 --> 00:16:42.680 like I needed to look a certain way. I need to have a certain skin 269 00:16:42.680 --> 00:16:46.120 color, certain hair color, certain eye color just to feel 270 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:49.845 beautiful. I was embarrassed of my own culture, and it wasn't 271 00:16:49.845 --> 00:16:53.225 until my twenties when I finally embraced it. And so 272 00:16:53.685 --> 00:16:57.365 growing up in Toronto, Canada in the early nineties, you know, I never 273 00:16:57.365 --> 00:17:00.510 saw anybody in the media that looked like me. And I think my the work 274 00:17:00.510 --> 00:17:03.630 that I did really started from there because I was so always ashamed of my 275 00:17:03.630 --> 00:17:06.990 own culture. I wanted to look a certain way to feel 276 00:17:06.990 --> 00:17:10.349 accepted, to feel beautiful, and it wasn't until my twenties when I 277 00:17:10.349 --> 00:17:13.809 finally embraced being Asian, being being 278 00:17:14.325 --> 00:17:17.944 proud of who I was, my culture. But it wasn't until 2015 279 00:17:18.085 --> 00:17:21.605 when I realized that I really wanted to create a platform to highlight more Asian 280 00:17:21.605 --> 00:17:25.284 women to dismantle the negative stereotypes. Because time and time again, 281 00:17:25.284 --> 00:17:28.760 that's all I've seen. And you think in 2015, there'd be more 282 00:17:28.760 --> 00:17:32.600 representation, but there wasn't. And so in order for me to create it, 283 00:17:32.600 --> 00:17:34.840 I had to be the one to do it. Even if I had no clue 284 00:17:34.840 --> 00:17:38.520 what I was doing or where to even start, I said, I'll 285 00:17:38.520 --> 00:17:42.165 find a way. So in September 2015, that's when I actually 286 00:17:42.165 --> 00:17:45.685 started my own podcast called The Tao of Self Confidence, where I've 287 00:17:45.685 --> 00:17:49.465 interviewed over 800 women on the topic of confidence, mostly Asian women. 288 00:17:50.005 --> 00:17:53.350 And, you know, I I didn't even know what a podcast was when I first 289 00:17:53.350 --> 00:17:56.230 started. Like, I had no idea. I just saw it on Itunes at the time, 290 00:17:56.230 --> 00:17:59.750 but back then it was on Itunes. There was hardly any 291 00:17:59.750 --> 00:18:03.270 Asian people podcasting at the time either, so I was like, I don't even know 292 00:18:03.270 --> 00:18:07.029 if this was the right thing. Right? But sometimes if you're one of the 293 00:18:07.029 --> 00:18:10.335 first people to do it, it's it's a good thing. Right? Because then you're the 294 00:18:10.335 --> 00:18:14.175 one starting it, starting this, like, wave of other people 295 00:18:14.175 --> 00:18:18.015 doing it. So, you know, I still have the the the podcast 296 00:18:18.015 --> 00:18:21.775 till this day being able to interview so many amazing women. And because I've 297 00:18:21.775 --> 00:18:25.410 been able to interview so many women, it's 298 00:18:25.410 --> 00:18:29.250 helped me with my own confidence issues, realize that, you know, learning to 299 00:18:29.250 --> 00:18:32.850 love myself, fully love myself, good, bad, and the ugly. And that's where 300 00:18:32.850 --> 00:18:36.610 persistence comes in because, you know, it's almost 10 years, and, like, not 301 00:18:36.610 --> 00:18:40.325 everybody has that that that drive to 302 00:18:40.325 --> 00:18:44.165 keep going, especially sometimes when even when I first started, I didn't even know where 303 00:18:44.165 --> 00:18:47.685 I was going. I just knew I needed to have a platform. I just kept 304 00:18:47.685 --> 00:18:51.285 going, and it's led me to so many other things. You know? I've written a 305 00:18:51.285 --> 00:18:55.120 book on on trauma and and how that affects us and 306 00:18:55.120 --> 00:18:58.880 how we can move beyond that. You know, I I speak for 307 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:02.720 many different companies, be able to, you know, 308 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:06.080 be seen as a leader even though sometimes I don't feel like 309 00:19:06.080 --> 00:19:09.895 it. But, I mean, if I stopped at 310 00:19:09.895 --> 00:19:13.655 the 1st year or even the 5th year, I wouldn't even be here 311 00:19:13.655 --> 00:19:17.195 today. And so I realized persistence 312 00:19:17.335 --> 00:19:21.095 was my power because without it, I wouldn't be here today. You 313 00:19:21.095 --> 00:19:24.810 know, I wouldn't be here talking to you, being able to 314 00:19:24.810 --> 00:19:28.410 write a book, not just for not just any book, but a book for 315 00:19:28.410 --> 00:19:32.090 Wiley, which is one of the top five publishers in the world. Never thought 316 00:19:32.090 --> 00:19:35.690 that could ever happen to me. Not because I didn't believe in myself. It's just 317 00:19:35.690 --> 00:19:39.465 because, you know, how many Asian authors are out there, right, that are getting signed 318 00:19:39.465 --> 00:19:43.065 under big publisher names? Now there's been more, which is which I 319 00:19:43.065 --> 00:19:46.585 love, and it had to start somewhere. So, you 320 00:19:46.585 --> 00:19:50.345 know, if people think there's, like, this secret sauce to 321 00:19:50.345 --> 00:19:54.169 success, but, really, the the only thing that I think is really 322 00:19:54.169 --> 00:19:57.710 important is you just have to be persistent in what you want. 323 00:19:58.169 --> 00:20:02.010 Right? Even if you can't explain how you're gonna get there, you'll find a 324 00:20:02.010 --> 00:20:05.805 way. Because most people who are successful have no 325 00:20:05.805 --> 00:20:09.245 clue what they're doing, and I think it's okay to say that. Like, 326 00:20:09.245 --> 00:20:13.005 even some of the biggest names you see are just figuring it out 327 00:20:13.005 --> 00:20:16.765 as they go. And I think if we're more honest on that, it'll 328 00:20:16.765 --> 00:20:20.360 be a little bit more helpful because, especially as women, we're always 329 00:20:20.580 --> 00:20:24.340 told to, like, prepare everything before we start, but then we keep 330 00:20:24.340 --> 00:20:27.940 preparing to the point that we forget to start, and we're just preparing and preparing, 331 00:20:27.940 --> 00:20:31.380 delaying our own success, not realizing you can go out there and make 332 00:20:31.380 --> 00:20:34.825 mistakes, course correct, and you'll get a result. And 333 00:20:34.825 --> 00:20:38.125 so I I had to go through many mistakes, 334 00:20:38.425 --> 00:20:42.185 figure things out, but I always knew that no matter what happens, no 335 00:20:42.185 --> 00:20:46.025 matter how bad the situation can be or no matter if 336 00:20:46.025 --> 00:20:49.705 I'm going through my own dark moments, I can push 337 00:20:49.705 --> 00:20:53.280 through. I can keep moving forward and and rise to the 338 00:20:53.280 --> 00:20:56.880 top. So that's why for me persistence is so important because 339 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:00.580 anything I ever did or anything I ever got, it was through my persistency 340 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.760 that led me through here. You know, you don't you know, people think you have 341 00:21:03.760 --> 00:21:07.115 to be the smartest. You have to know everything. Actually, you don't 342 00:21:07.415 --> 00:21:11.255 because I don't know everything. Like, I I never thought I'd write a book. I 343 00:21:11.255 --> 00:21:14.875 had to take English classes coming to Canada because I couldn't put sentences together. 344 00:21:15.015 --> 00:21:18.295 You know, I wrote my book, the the the child of self confidence at the 345 00:21:18.295 --> 00:21:22.100 age of 40, and that's when most people think 346 00:21:22.100 --> 00:21:25.700 as women being 40 is, like, being expired, but it's not. 347 00:21:25.700 --> 00:21:28.820 Right? It's never too late to go out there and do what you want. You 348 00:21:28.820 --> 00:21:32.660 can start at any given given moment if you believe in yourself. And I know 349 00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:35.860 that sounds cheesy, but it really does take that belief in yourself to go out 350 00:21:35.860 --> 00:21:39.595 there and make things happen and knowing that you are capable no matter what 351 00:21:39.595 --> 00:21:43.035 the circumstances is because there's gonna be crazy moments in our 352 00:21:43.035 --> 00:21:46.795 life. And if we learn to practice or 353 00:21:46.795 --> 00:21:50.395 have the tools and resources to keep moving forward to build that persistence, we 354 00:21:50.395 --> 00:21:54.000 become invincible. So I know I went a little bit on a tangent there, 355 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:56.580 but I think it's really important to just share those things. 356 00:21:57.679 --> 00:22:01.519 So when you're working with people, you mentioned a bit earlier about some of 357 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:05.235 this is down to limiting beliefs or imposter syndrome 358 00:22:05.375 --> 00:22:09.075 or cultural stereotypes being reinforced within your own community. 359 00:22:09.294 --> 00:22:12.595 And sometimes you said it takes a lot to stop and change. So how 360 00:22:12.975 --> 00:22:16.575 how do you encourage people to to stop and to create the 361 00:22:16.575 --> 00:22:20.299 change? I mean, I think it's also like learning to ask the right 362 00:22:20.299 --> 00:22:23.660 questions. Right? I remember talking to a lady 363 00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:27.419 who was afraid of going to parties. Like, she was 364 00:22:27.419 --> 00:22:30.640 always afraid to be in a group setting. And 365 00:22:31.325 --> 00:22:35.165 I asked her why, and at first, she was blocking me. Like, she did not 366 00:22:35.165 --> 00:22:38.525 wanna tell me. And I'm like, I can't help you if you can't help 367 00:22:38.525 --> 00:22:42.045 yourself. Right? Like, I can't help you if you're not gonna tell me 368 00:22:42.045 --> 00:22:45.730 why this is happening. So, you know, 369 00:22:45.950 --> 00:22:49.710 I let her have her space a little bit, and she 370 00:22:49.710 --> 00:22:53.549 finally opened up. She said the reason why she feels this 371 00:22:53.549 --> 00:22:56.350 way and and the reason why we had this was because she was invited to 372 00:22:56.350 --> 00:22:59.865 a party, and she was having a panic attack because she didn't wanna get ignored 373 00:22:59.865 --> 00:23:03.705 at the party. And so she said about 374 00:23:03.705 --> 00:23:07.405 10 years ago, she went to a concert with a group of people. 375 00:23:08.025 --> 00:23:10.825 And for some reason, the that group of people left her alone. So she was 376 00:23:10.825 --> 00:23:14.105 alone at that concert, and she had to, I guess, find her way home by 377 00:23:14.105 --> 00:23:17.830 herself. And because of that, that's really traumatized her to 378 00:23:17.830 --> 00:23:21.270 be in group settings because she was always afraid if she went to a group 379 00:23:21.270 --> 00:23:24.790 setting, someone's gonna leave her, and then she's gonna be all alone 380 00:23:24.790 --> 00:23:27.690 again. And so I had to tell her, like, you have to look at things 381 00:23:27.765 --> 00:23:31.305 from a different perspective. Right? What happened 10 years ago is not gonna happen now. 382 00:23:31.445 --> 00:23:34.825 Plus the person who is throwing the party invited you, 383 00:23:35.445 --> 00:23:38.885 and it's not the same group of people. It's a different group of people. Right? 384 00:23:38.885 --> 00:23:41.850 A lot of us, we tend to hold on to the past. I'm the same 385 00:23:41.850 --> 00:23:45.610 way. You know, I'm human. You know, sometimes we think what happened 10 years ago 386 00:23:45.610 --> 00:23:48.990 is gonna happen now, but we have to see things from a different perspective. 387 00:23:49.290 --> 00:23:53.130 Right? And, also, our brain is protecting us in the process. Because 388 00:23:53.130 --> 00:23:55.790 we go through so many bad things, our brain is unconsciously 389 00:23:56.735 --> 00:24:00.355 protecting us from that bad thing happening again. So sometimes we also have 390 00:24:00.735 --> 00:24:04.415 to talk to ourselves and realize, you know, again, what happened 10 years ago is 391 00:24:04.415 --> 00:24:08.255 not gonna happen now. And so because she was able to see 392 00:24:08.255 --> 00:24:11.615 that, you know, it helped her realize, like, okay. You're right. This is a new 393 00:24:11.615 --> 00:24:15.420 setting. She invited me. I didn't invite myself, and 394 00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:18.920 these are a new set of people. They're not the same people who's gonna leave 395 00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:22.680 her or abandon her. So those are some of 396 00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.085 the things. One of the things I also talk about is learning 397 00:24:26.085 --> 00:24:29.924 to have confidence strengthening. Right? Because we're all born 398 00:24:29.924 --> 00:24:33.285 with confidence. You know, when you're a baby, you can walk, you can 399 00:24:33.285 --> 00:24:36.905 talk. Even if you fall down, you put yourself back up. 400 00:24:37.125 --> 00:24:40.725 As kids, we just have no fear in anything. Right? We'll we're bouncing off the 401 00:24:40.725 --> 00:24:44.380