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Sheena Yap Chan: And today is episode 136 with
Sheena Yap Chan: the title, The Power of Persistence. And
Sheena Yap Chan: I have the absolute honor and privilege to welcome Sheena Yap
Sheena Yap Chan: Chan. Sheena is a keynote speaker and Wall
Sheena Yap Chan: Street Journal best selling author on leadership and confidence.
Sheena Yap Chan: When I asked Sheena to describe her superpower, she said, her superpower
Sheena Yap Chan: is being persistent in her mission. That has
Sheena Yap Chan: helped her push through so many challenges in her life. Hello,
Sheena Yap Chan: Sheena. Welcome to the show. Hello, Joan. Thank you so much for having
Sheena Yap Chan: me here. Hope you're having a fantastic day. I am.
Sheena Yap Chan: And, from what we're saying just now, you're in
Sheena Yap Chan: on the East Coast of Canada, just north of, of New York.
Sheena Yap Chan: Lovely part of the world. Dusheana, tell me more. The power of
Sheena Yap Chan: persistence. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of
Sheena Yap Chan: people don't realize, you know, in order to make things happen, you know,
Sheena Yap Chan: nothing happens overnight. Even though we see people who have
Sheena Yap Chan: so called overnight success, They don't realize behind the story
Sheena Yap Chan: they've been putting in the work day in and day out. You know, sometimes it
Sheena Yap Chan: could take years before they can see, you know, the light at the end of
Sheena Yap Chan: the tunnel. And when it comes to forging your own path, you know, we're gonna
Sheena Yap Chan: go through obstacles. We're gonna go through challenges and roadblocks, but it's how
Sheena Yap Chan: we move forward that matters the most. Right? I
Sheena Yap Chan: mean, I think the pandemic has been a great example of
Sheena Yap Chan: us persevering through one of the wildest times
Sheena Yap Chan: in in history, you know, being stuck at home, not knowing what was gonna
Sheena Yap Chan: happen, not knowing if we're gonna see the light of
Sheena Yap Chan: day, but we persisted. Right? We made it we made things work. We learned how
Sheena Yap Chan: to pivot, you know, at every given moment during the
Sheena Yap Chan: pandemic, and so it's just always moving forward.
Sheena Yap Chan: Right? And I think that power of persistence really came from my great
Sheena Yap Chan: grandfather when he started his business, and one of his
Sheena Yap Chan: values is persistence. Right? You don't give up. We get better.
Sheena Yap Chan: We learn from our mistakes because we're always gonna make mistakes in our
Sheena Yap Chan: journey, and it's not a bad thing because
Sheena Yap Chan: sometimes our mistakes can be our greatest opportunities. I know
Sheena Yap Chan: it's weird to say that because when you go to school, when you make
Sheena Yap Chan: a mistake, you get punished for it. Right? Not realizing in the
Sheena Yap Chan: real world, sometimes those mistakes is how we can solve problems,
Sheena Yap Chan: create new businesses, create new opportunities for other people
Sheena Yap Chan: around the world. So for me, yeah, I just realized
Sheena Yap Chan: it's like sometimes life is tough, and
Sheena Yap Chan: it's okay to feel our feelings. But we also have to learn to pick
Sheena Yap Chan: ourselves back up and keep moving forward if what we're doing is something that
Sheena Yap Chan: we're super passionate about, if it's in alignment with our
Sheena Yap Chan: values. Right? Of course, it's I think it's okay to quit things that doesn't
Sheena Yap Chan: align with you because we grow. We evolve as
Sheena Yap Chan: human beings. And so that's why we always have to look back and
Sheena Yap Chan: ask the right questions and say, is this the the path I'm supposed to
Sheena Yap Chan: be in, or is this the the purpose I'm supposed to be? If not, what
Sheena Yap Chan: is it? And so and we we will know because as human
Sheena Yap Chan: beings, you know, intuition is huge. And so,
Sheena Yap Chan: you know, it'll lead us to that moment even if it doesn't look
Sheena Yap Chan: like it. So, yeah, to me, persistence is just, you know, moving
Sheena Yap Chan: forward, always moving forward. Like, if you see people in the media, people of
Sheena Yap Chan: influence, celebrities, you know, they've all had to
Sheena Yap Chan: persist their way through to get to where they are. Right? I
Sheena Yap Chan: remember Lizzo talking about how she got started. I
Sheena Yap Chan: mean, she she performed at so many places,
Sheena Yap Chan: sometimes with for no money, sometimes for just beer, but she realized
Sheena Yap Chan: she had to put in the work day in and day out to get to
Sheena Yap Chan: where she is today. And I think it's really refreshing to hear that, especially in
Sheena Yap Chan: the world of social media where everything seems to be perfectly curated,
Sheena Yap Chan: not knowing the struggles people had to go through. And so if
Sheena Yap Chan: people just, I guess, are more transparent and vulnerable
Sheena Yap Chan: about the things that they do, it just makes it real more relatable and realize
Sheena Yap Chan: we're all not alone. We're in this together. We go through similar things, and it's
Sheena Yap Chan: just part of the journey. So that's a little bit about the
Sheena Yap Chan: power of persistence. Yeah. I think you touched on a few things there which which
Sheena Yap Chan: really resonated with me. The, that we talked about influencers,
Sheena Yap Chan: social media, and social media,
Sheena Yap Chan: most of it, I'm not saying it's a lie, but it's over
Sheena Yap Chan: inflating someone's sense of self and and
Sheena Yap Chan: their ego, whatever it may be, because you, when you're trying to create a personal
Sheena Yap Chan: brand, you're trying to sell the best of you on you or the or the
Sheena Yap Chan: your potential to get people to be attracted to you, whatever it may be.
Sheena Yap Chan: As you say, if you're just starting out or you you lack a bit of
Sheena Yap Chan: confidence, seeing everybody with their stuff together,
Sheena Yap Chan: it can be quite daunting, can't it? Oh, yeah. And I
Sheena Yap Chan: I and, you know, it's it's so easy to compare ourselves to other people with
Sheena Yap Chan: perfectly curated photos, but I've also seen a lot of people
Sheena Yap Chan: on on social media who've learned to be vulnerable, who've learned to share
Sheena Yap Chan: their mess to the world. And it's actually
Sheena Yap Chan: refreshing to see that because more people are inclined to listening to them versus the
Sheena Yap Chan: people with the perfectly curated photos because to them, it doesn't
Sheena Yap Chan: makes it's not real life to them. Right? They can't relate to that. But
Sheena Yap Chan: if they see somebody sharing, you know, I got rejected 20 times today,
Sheena Yap Chan: it's like, oh, okay. So she's not the only one who gets rejected?
Sheena Yap Chan: This is great knowing that even though she's successful, she still goes through these things.
Sheena Yap Chan: She goes through imposter syndrome, self doubt, anxiety,
Sheena Yap Chan: you know, mom guilt, mom shame. Being able to share
Sheena Yap Chan: those, it's just it's just really refreshing versus, like,
Sheena Yap Chan: here's my perfect vacation in this perfect island with my perfect
Sheena Yap Chan: you know, it's it's just unattainable. And, you know, when we
Sheena Yap Chan: keep showing up in those, like, surface level photos,
Sheena Yap Chan: you know, that's when we start having, you know, mental health issues, feeling we're
Sheena Yap Chan: not good enough, feeling like we need to keep up with everybody, keep up
Sheena Yap Chan: with the Joneses. I mean, there's so many stories where you hear,
Sheena Yap Chan: like, people of influence or influencers who've, you
Sheena Yap Chan: know, spent way beyond their means and then are really bankrupt even though
Sheena Yap Chan: they're still showcasing that they're living this so called life versus
Sheena Yap Chan: just learning to live within or beyond their means.
Sheena Yap Chan: Right? Because not everyone can do that. Like, it doesn't
Sheena Yap Chan: it's it's not realistic, unfortunately. And we've I've seen
Sheena Yap Chan: it time and time again. You know, I I've seen so many stories and hear
Sheena Yap Chan: so many stories. In fact, I was on Facebook,
Sheena Yap Chan: and I saw a post about Keke Palmer, and she
Sheena Yap Chan: mentions that she lives beyond her means, like, low way below her means, I
Sheena Yap Chan: mean. Like, she only she still drives a Toyota. Right? And she's she's a
Sheena Yap Chan: phenomenal actress, very, very successful. She started her career
Sheena Yap Chan: at 8. But because she started her career at 8 and went
Sheena Yap Chan: bankrupt at 18, she realized that she had to do
Sheena Yap Chan: things differently. Right? So instead of, you know,
Sheena Yap Chan: trying to live lavishly, she lives beyond below her means. She focuses on her
Sheena Yap Chan: many businesses and her careers. And, of course, now that she has a child, she
Sheena Yap Chan: also focuses on her child. So it's really nice to see that
Sheena Yap Chan: versus, like, seeing everybody in private jets and and
Sheena Yap Chan: fancy cars, not realizing that might not even be theirs. It could be rented
Sheena Yap Chan: or, you know, it could be taken away because
Sheena Yap Chan: people are just trying to showcase this, like, perfect life
Sheena Yap Chan: or trying to keep up with the Joneses, and it gets exhausting. So Yeah. I'm
Sheena Yap Chan: just as you're talking now, I'm thinking, you know, we're we're recording this at the
Sheena Yap Chan: end of October in 2024, and, there was
Sheena Yap Chan: a, well, famous singer in the UK, Liam Payne, former One
Sheena Yap Chan: Direction member, who jumped off a balcony or what, I'm
Sheena Yap Chan: not sure the exact circumstances are known, but he obviously lived
Sheena Yap Chan: a very troubled life despite the appearance of having everything,
Sheena Yap Chan: super connected, influential people, you look at all the people paying tributes who
Sheena Yap Chan: come out and say there is is a great friend, clearly a battle with
Sheena Yap Chan: alcoholism and drugs and other and other things that was going on in his
Sheena Yap Chan: life. And then we look at people like Robin Williams, you know, you
Sheena Yap Chan: think that that he had his stuff together, Gregarious,
Sheena Yap Chan: outgoing actor, had had it all there, under the covers mental
Sheena Yap Chan: health, Heath Ledger. So we we look at these people and
Sheena Yap Chan: their on screen persona or their stage persona, and that often
Sheena Yap Chan: masks the true pain that people have, but we're aspiring to the
Sheena Yap Chan: on screen persona, not understanding, you know, those
Sheena Yap Chan: that frantic paddling under the water that's going on, trying to hold their life together
Sheena Yap Chan: that people go through. Yeah. I mean, it we never know,
Sheena Yap Chan: right, until, unfortunately, things like these happen and, you know,
Sheena Yap Chan: mental health can look different for everybody. Just because someone's smiling on a photo doesn't
Sheena Yap Chan: mean they're they're happy. And then I'm I'm not saying everyone's like that. Of course,
Sheena Yap Chan: there's people out there who are genuinely happy, but we also
Sheena Yap Chan: have to realize there's people out there who may seem like they're happy, but, really,
Sheena Yap Chan: they're dying on the inside, and they have no outlet to turn to.
Sheena Yap Chan: Right? And, you know, trauma is huge. Right? Trauma is something
Sheena Yap Chan: that we never talk about, but it's needed to talk about. You know? Every
Sheena Yap Chan: time someone asks me, well, how do I build confidence? And I'm like,
Sheena Yap Chan: well, before we ask that question, what is really stopping you from
Sheena Yap Chan: building confidence? Like, is there a moment in your life where you were
Sheena Yap Chan: traumatized that really stopped you from moving forward? You know, it's really important to
Sheena Yap Chan: get to the root cause of why you're feeling the way you're
Sheena Yap Chan: feeling. It could be childhood trauma. It could be PTSD.
Sheena Yap Chan: It could not even just be your own trauma. It could be the trauma of
Sheena Yap Chan: your parents, grandparents because intergenerational trauma is very prevalent. And
Sheena Yap Chan: then we also have culture and gender. So, you know, there's so many different
Sheena Yap Chan: factors that we have to learn to to work through that root cause first
Sheena Yap Chan: before we can even think of, well, how can I build confidence? Because I
Sheena Yap Chan: can show you a million ways to build confidence, but, you know, if you're not
Sheena Yap Chan: there, if you're still working through a lot of trauma,
Sheena Yap Chan: it's not it's not gonna be beneficial. You know, I'd rather you
Sheena Yap Chan: figure out what that root cause is. And if you're not aware, start asking the
Sheena Yap Chan: right questions, start talking to the right people, you know, start
Sheena Yap Chan: researching. Because, of course, as humans, we can always
Sheena Yap Chan: sense something is wrong. Right? We can feel
Sheena Yap Chan: different things or see different signs from the universe, and
Sheena Yap Chan: then then we start to question things. Right? And then when we start to question
Sheena Yap Chan: things, we get curious and start trying to find the answers. And
Sheena Yap Chan: so, you know, mental health is really important. You know, it's
Sheena Yap Chan: taboo in most cultures, especially in my culture. It's something that
Sheena Yap Chan: we never talk about because it's considered not real. If we talk
Sheena Yap Chan: about it, you know, we're deemed as crazy. Right? Even
Sheena Yap Chan: though it's just part of maintaining your mental well-being.
Sheena Yap Chan: If we don't talk about it, it it it's seen as we've never
Sheena Yap Chan: it never existed. But, of course, it existed. It happened. And for so
Sheena Yap Chan: long, like, we've done the same thing over and over again, just transferring the
Sheena Yap Chan: trauma to the next generation, to the next generation, to the next generation
Sheena Yap Chan: without someone breaking that cycle, without someone saying, wait a second.
Sheena Yap Chan: You know? Why is it we're constantly feeling the same feelings
Sheena Yap Chan: or similar feelings in every generation? Maybe we need to dig a
Sheena Yap Chan: little bit deeper and find a, you know, a way to heal from it so
Sheena Yap Chan: that we don't pass it on to the next generation. And
Sheena Yap Chan: it's it's unfortunate that we'd had to go through all this, but at the
Sheena Yap Chan: same time, you know, we're aware of it now so that we can tell others,
Sheena Yap Chan: like, listen. You're not the only one who's going through mental health issues. You're not
Sheena Yap Chan: the only one who's going through pain and trauma. A lot of people are
Sheena Yap Chan: and aren't too sure what to do with it or not too sure
Sheena Yap Chan: what they can do to heal from it. Right? And everyone
Sheena Yap Chan: has different stories, different different
Sheena Yap Chan: experiences. So everyone's gonna find different ways to heal from it,
Sheena Yap Chan: of course. Right? Like, what may work for me might not work for you and
Sheena Yap Chan: vice versa because we're 2 totally different people. And so it's
Sheena Yap Chan: important to learn to find ways that would help you
Sheena Yap Chan: versus trying to follow everybody else. Especially
Sheena Yap Chan: in Asian color culture, we've always been told
Sheena Yap Chan: to live one way of life, never rock the boat because that's always
Sheena Yap Chan: been the formula for success for centuries. And so just
Sheena Yap Chan: imagine how much trauma has been transferred
Sheena Yap Chan: and how much we have to unlearn to create a new normal to
Sheena Yap Chan: make, you know, our lives better and our next generation better.
Sheena Yap Chan: So it's a whole cycle, unfortunately. So you
Sheena Yap Chan: mentioned specifically around your culture. Do you wanna
Sheena Yap Chan: just explain a bit background about how you think
Sheena Yap Chan: maybe define what your culture is and how how that has the impact on
Sheena Yap Chan: on people's well-being and mental health? Yeah. I grew up in
Sheena Yap Chan: in Asian in a very conservative Asian culture. You know, I was
Sheena Yap Chan: Chinese and Filipino culture and, you know, especially as women, we've been
Sheena Yap Chan: told different things, you know, especially, like, you have to go to school,
Sheena Yap Chan: get a job, never get married, never I mean, go to school, get a job,
Sheena Yap Chan: get married, never rock the boat, you know, never put yourself out there,
Sheena Yap Chan: you know, just keep yourself in the background, never make any noise. And
Sheena Yap Chan: because of that, we have so much repressed feelings. We feel like we're not allowed
Sheena Yap Chan: to share what we feel. We're not allowed to share any
Sheena Yap Chan: issues that we're going through. We're just told to just keep it to
Sheena Yap Chan: ourselves, and that really hurts us because that's when we start having confidence
Sheena Yap Chan: issues, mental health issues. And if we don't have an outlet to let
Sheena Yap Chan: it out, it's gonna it's gonna kill, like, kill us on the
Sheena Yap Chan: inside, unfortunately. And I've seen that time and time again with, you
Sheena Yap Chan: know, people who are older than me, the older
Sheena Yap Chan: generation. You know, you see this, like, I
Sheena Yap Chan: guess, this look of, like, you know, they're they're something's
Sheena Yap Chan: troubling them, but they're they'll never share anything because this they've
Sheena Yap Chan: been taught to just never share anything, to just let
Sheena Yap Chan: everything just take everything in, don't let anything out.
Sheena Yap Chan: And then in Asian culture, especially for women, we've been told to be the
Sheena Yap Chan: perfect daughter, the wife, the mother, the sister, etcetera. Like,
Sheena Yap Chan: we always had to be perfect. And for me, perfection doesn't
Sheena Yap Chan: exist because we're all human. We're gonna make mistakes. There's no such thing.
Sheena Yap Chan: But, yeah, we're always trying to chase this
Sheena Yap Chan: unattainable thing that doesn't make sense, and then we go through
Sheena Yap Chan: so much to be this perfect person when there's
Sheena Yap Chan: when when it's not even real. So just a
Sheena Yap Chan: lot of, like, cultural traditions and
Sheena Yap Chan: ways of living that really stops us from moving forward. And because
Sheena Yap Chan: of that, we go through so many issues. I mean, one of the things we
Sheena Yap Chan: go through too is the negative stereotypes. You know? Asian women are always
Sheena Yap Chan: seen as quiet, submissive, and obedient, and, you
Sheena Yap Chan: know, most people think that's a good thing. It's not. Right?
Sheena Yap Chan: Because then, you know, we're prone to so many things. We're getting taken
Sheena Yap Chan: advantage of, and there's sexual violence and child marriages and
Sheena Yap Chan: human trafficking. And this is hard stuff that people
Sheena Yap Chan: don't talk about but still exist today, unfortunately. And so
Sheena Yap Chan: it's important for me to show up to be to be able to
Sheena Yap Chan: speak up, to put myself out there, and I don't I it's not like I
Sheena Yap Chan: like doing it. You know, of course, it's uncomfortable still, but I realize it's
Sheena Yap Chan: not just about me. It's so many other women who feel like they
Sheena Yap Chan: have no voice, they've been silenced, they feel invisible. And so if
Sheena Yap Chan: I wanted representation, it had to start with me. And all this
Sheena Yap Chan: really stemmed from growing up in Toronto in the midnight in
Sheena Yap Chan: the in the in the early nineties, not seeing anybody in the media that looked
Sheena Yap Chan: like me because that really hurt my own confidence. I felt
Sheena Yap Chan: like I needed to look a certain way. I need to have a certain skin
Sheena Yap Chan: color, certain hair color, certain eye color just to feel
Sheena Yap Chan: beautiful. I was embarrassed of my own culture, and it wasn't
Sheena Yap Chan: until my twenties when I finally embraced it. And so
Sheena Yap Chan: growing up in Toronto, Canada in the early nineties, you know, I never
Sheena Yap Chan: saw anybody in the media that looked like me. And I think my the work
Sheena Yap Chan: that I did really started from there because I was so always ashamed of my
Sheena Yap Chan: own culture. I wanted to look a certain way to feel
Sheena Yap Chan: accepted, to feel beautiful, and it wasn't until my twenties when I
Sheena Yap Chan: finally embraced being Asian, being being
Sheena Yap Chan: proud of who I was, my culture. But it wasn't until 2015
Sheena Yap Chan: when I realized that I really wanted to create a platform to highlight more Asian
Sheena Yap Chan: women to dismantle the negative stereotypes. Because time and time again,
Sheena Yap Chan: that's all I've seen. And you think in 2015, there'd be more
Sheena Yap Chan: representation, but there wasn't. And so in order for me to create it,
Sheena Yap Chan: I had to be the one to do it. Even if I had no clue
Sheena Yap Chan: what I was doing or where to even start, I said, I'll
Sheena Yap Chan: find a way. So in September 2015, that's when I actually
Sheena Yap Chan: started my own podcast called The Tao of Self Confidence, where I've
Sheena Yap Chan: interviewed over 800 women on the topic of confidence, mostly Asian women.
Sheena Yap Chan: And, you know, I I didn't even know what a podcast was when I first
Sheena Yap Chan: started. Like, I had no idea. I just saw it on Itunes at the time,
Sheena Yap Chan: but back then it was on Itunes. There was hardly any
Sheena Yap Chan: Asian people podcasting at the time either, so I was like, I don't even know
Sheena Yap Chan: if this was the right thing. Right? But sometimes if you're one of the
Sheena Yap Chan: first people to do it, it's it's a good thing. Right? Because then you're the
Sheena Yap Chan: one starting it, starting this, like, wave of other people
Sheena Yap Chan: doing it. So, you know, I still have the the the podcast
Sheena Yap Chan: till this day being able to interview so many amazing women. And because I've
Sheena Yap Chan: been able to interview so many women, it's
Sheena Yap Chan: helped me with my own confidence issues, realize that, you know, learning to
Sheena Yap Chan: love myself, fully love myself, good, bad, and the ugly. And that's where
Sheena Yap Chan: persistence comes in because, you know, it's almost 10 years, and, like, not
Sheena Yap Chan: everybody has that that that drive to
Sheena Yap Chan: keep going, especially sometimes when even when I first started, I didn't even know where
Sheena Yap Chan: I was going. I just knew I needed to have a platform. I just kept
Sheena Yap Chan: going, and it's led me to so many other things. You know? I've written a
Sheena Yap Chan: book on on trauma and and how that affects us and
Sheena Yap Chan: how we can move beyond that. You know, I I speak for
Sheena Yap Chan: many different companies, be able to, you know,
Sheena Yap Chan: be seen as a leader even though sometimes I don't feel like
Sheena Yap Chan: it. But, I mean, if I stopped at
Sheena Yap Chan: the 1st year or even the 5th year, I wouldn't even be here
Sheena Yap Chan: today. And so I realized persistence
Sheena Yap Chan: was my power because without it, I wouldn't be here today. You
Sheena Yap Chan: know, I wouldn't be here talking to you, being able to
Sheena Yap Chan: write a book, not just for not just any book, but a book for
Sheena Yap Chan: Wiley, which is one of the top five publishers in the world. Never thought
Sheena Yap Chan: that could ever happen to me. Not because I didn't believe in myself. It's just
Sheena Yap Chan: because, you know, how many Asian authors are out there, right, that are getting signed
Sheena Yap Chan: under big publisher names? Now there's been more, which is which I
Sheena Yap Chan: love, and it had to start somewhere. So, you
Sheena Yap Chan: know, if people think there's, like, this secret sauce to
Sheena Yap Chan: success, but, really, the the only thing that I think is really
Sheena Yap Chan: important is you just have to be persistent in what you want.
Sheena Yap Chan: Right? Even if you can't explain how you're gonna get there, you'll find a
Sheena Yap Chan: way. Because most people who are successful have no
Sheena Yap Chan: clue what they're doing, and I think it's okay to say that. Like,
Sheena Yap Chan: even some of the biggest names you see are just figuring it out
Sheena Yap Chan: as they go. And I think if we're more honest on that, it'll
Sheena Yap Chan: be a little bit more helpful because, especially as women, we're always
Sheena Yap Chan: told to, like, prepare everything before we start, but then we keep
Sheena Yap Chan: preparing to the point that we forget to start, and we're just preparing and preparing,
Sheena Yap Chan: delaying our own success, not realizing you can go out there and make
Sheena Yap Chan: mistakes, course correct, and you'll get a result. And
Sheena Yap Chan: so I I had to go through many mistakes,
Sheena Yap Chan: figure things out, but I always knew that no matter what happens, no
Sheena Yap Chan: matter how bad the situation can be or no matter if
Sheena Yap Chan: I'm going through my own dark moments, I can push
Sheena Yap Chan: through. I can keep moving forward and and rise to the
Sheena Yap Chan: top. So that's why for me persistence is so important because
Sheena Yap Chan: anything I ever did or anything I ever got, it was through my persistency
Sheena Yap Chan: that led me through here. You know, you don't you know, people think you have
Sheena Yap Chan: to be the smartest. You have to know everything. Actually, you don't
Sheena Yap Chan: because I don't know everything. Like, I I never thought I'd write a book. I
Sheena Yap Chan: had to take English classes coming to Canada because I couldn't put sentences together.
Sheena Yap Chan: You know, I wrote my book, the the the child of self confidence at the
Sheena Yap Chan: age of 40, and that's when most people think
Sheena Yap Chan: as women being 40 is, like, being expired, but it's not.
Sheena Yap Chan: Right? It's never too late to go out there and do what you want. You
Sheena Yap Chan: can start at any given given moment if you believe in yourself. And I know
Sheena Yap Chan: that sounds cheesy, but it really does take that belief in yourself to go out
Sheena Yap Chan: there and make things happen and knowing that you are capable no matter what
Sheena Yap Chan: the circumstances is because there's gonna be crazy moments in our
Sheena Yap Chan: life. And if we learn to practice or
Sheena Yap Chan: have the tools and resources to keep moving forward to build that persistence, we
Sheena Yap Chan: become invincible. So I know I went a little bit on a tangent there,
Sheena Yap Chan: but I think it's really important to just share those things.
Sheena Yap Chan: So when you're working with people, you mentioned a bit earlier about some of
Sheena Yap Chan: this is down to limiting beliefs or imposter syndrome
Sheena Yap Chan: or cultural stereotypes being reinforced within your own community.
Sheena Yap Chan: And sometimes you said it takes a lot to stop and change. So how
Sheena Yap Chan: how do you encourage people to to stop and to create the
Sheena Yap Chan: change? I mean, I think it's also like learning to ask the right
Sheena Yap Chan: questions. Right? I remember talking to a lady
Sheena Yap Chan: who was afraid of going to parties. Like, she was
Sheena Yap Chan: always afraid to be in a group setting. And
Sheena Yap Chan: I asked her why, and at first, she was blocking me. Like, she did not
Sheena Yap Chan: wanna tell me. And I'm like, I can't help you if you can't help
Sheena Yap Chan: yourself. Right? Like, I can't help you if you're not gonna tell me
Sheena Yap Chan: why this is happening. So, you know,
Sheena Yap Chan: I let her have her space a little bit, and she
Sheena Yap Chan: finally opened up. She said the reason why she feels this
Sheena Yap Chan: way and and the reason why we had this was because she was invited to
Sheena Yap Chan: a party, and she was having a panic attack because she didn't wanna get ignored
Sheena Yap Chan: at the party. And so she said about
Sheena Yap Chan: 10 years ago, she went to a concert with a group of people.
Sheena Yap Chan: And for some reason, the that group of people left her alone. So she was
Sheena Yap Chan: alone at that concert, and she had to, I guess, find her way home by
Sheena Yap Chan: herself. And because of that, that's really traumatized her to
Sheena Yap Chan: be in group settings because she was always afraid if she went to a group
Sheena Yap Chan: setting, someone's gonna leave her, and then she's gonna be all alone
Sheena Yap Chan: again. And so I had to tell her, like, you have to look at things
Sheena Yap Chan: from a different perspective. Right? What happened 10 years ago is not gonna happen now.
Sheena Yap Chan: Plus the person who is throwing the party invited you,
Sheena Yap Chan: and it's not the same group of people. It's a different group of people. Right?
Sheena Yap Chan: A lot of us, we tend to hold on to the past. I'm the same
Sheena Yap Chan: way. You know, I'm human. You know, sometimes we think what happened 10 years ago
Sheena Yap Chan: is gonna happen now, but we have to see things from a different perspective.
Sheena Yap Chan: Right? And, also, our brain is protecting us in the process. Because
Sheena Yap Chan: we go through so many bad things, our brain is unconsciously
Sheena Yap Chan: protecting us from that bad thing happening again. So sometimes we also have
Sheena Yap Chan: to talk to ourselves and realize, you know, again, what happened 10 years ago is
Sheena Yap Chan: not gonna happen now. And so because she was able to see
Sheena Yap Chan: that, you know, it helped her realize, like, okay. You're right. This is a new
Sheena Yap Chan: setting. She invited me. I didn't invite myself, and
Sheena Yap Chan: these are a new set of people. They're not the same people who's gonna leave
Sheena Yap Chan: her or abandon her. So those are some of
Sheena Yap Chan: the things. One of the things I also talk about is learning
Sheena Yap Chan: to have confidence strengthening. Right? Because we're all born
Sheena Yap Chan: with confidence. You know, when you're a baby, you can walk, you can
Sheena Yap Chan: talk. Even if you fall down, you put yourself back up.
Sheena Yap Chan: As kids, we just have no fear in anything. Right? We'll we're bouncing off the
Sheena Yap Chan: couches. We fall off. We get up. We cry a little bit. We
Sheena Yap Chan: we move forward. Right? But as we grow up, we have
Sheena Yap Chan: society, cultural differences that tells
Sheena Yap Chan: us no or tells us you can't do this. You can't do
Sheena Yap Chan: that. And so then we start to get a little bit more cautious
Sheena Yap Chan: and then to the point where we're too afraid to do anything. And so sometimes
Sheena Yap Chan: we just need to build that muscle back to be more confident
Sheena Yap Chan: to go out there and do those things. So, you know, that's something
Sheena Yap Chan: that I realized actually recently. Right? Because, I
Sheena Yap Chan: mean, you were born with confidence. I was born with confidence, but then it just
Sheena Yap Chan: got lost in the way as we grow up, and we just need to get
Sheena Yap Chan: it back. It's kinda like working out. Right? I mean, you know,
Sheena Yap Chan: we may gain a couple pounds. If we wanna lose it, we go back to
Sheena Yap Chan: the gym. We eat properly to lose that weight, and then we feel good
Sheena Yap Chan: again. So yeah.
Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah. I mean, as as as for growing out, you mentioned that we we
Sheena Yap Chan: learn by making mistakes. Yeah. And I I guess it's how
Sheena Yap Chan: that mistake is treated. If you have positive
Sheena Yap Chan: encouragement and nurturing as a result of that to to grow and
Sheena Yap Chan: develop, you'll grow in confidence. If that mistake is
Sheena Yap Chan: always negative, it's treated badly or you're you're criticized for it, you're gonna
Sheena Yap Chan: be fearful of making mistakes. And if you're fearful of making mistakes, you're
Sheena Yap Chan: fearful of growing, you're fearful of changing, you will stay in your comfort zone all
Sheena Yap Chan: the time. So it it really does come from early
Sheena Yap Chan: childhood trauma effectively, that that fear of making a mistake, isn't it?
Sheena Yap Chan: Oh, yeah. I mean, I failed kindergarten in the Philippines
Sheena Yap Chan: for coloring outside the lines of a photo. So,
Sheena Yap Chan: I mean, that traumatized me until my adult life. Right?
Sheena Yap Chan: I thought everything I would touch would be an instant failure
Sheena Yap Chan: because I that was my first major failure at the tender age of
Sheena Yap Chan: 5, and I had to, like, redo kindergarten and move to another school all
Sheena Yap Chan: over again because I couldn't color within the lines of one photo.
Sheena Yap Chan: And if I had the personal development work that I I have
Sheena Yap Chan: now, I can interpret that as I wasn't a
Sheena Yap Chan: failure. I was just meant to color outside the lines. I was
Sheena Yap Chan: just meant to live life a different way versus what
Sheena Yap Chan: everyone is supposed to live, especially in my culture. So
Sheena Yap Chan: and I guess everything had to happen the way it happened so we can share
Sheena Yap Chan: these moments and share these these these learnings so
Sheena Yap Chan: that other people can maybe start seeing in their own childhood or their own
Sheena Yap Chan: life what's stopping them from moving forward. Right? What do they see that's
Sheena Yap Chan: negative that's actually a positive? So, I
Sheena Yap Chan: mean, it and you don't have to do this alone. Right? That's another
Sheena Yap Chan: thing. Like, when it comes to your mental health, your
Sheena Yap Chan: confidence journey, like, it's okay to ask for
Sheena Yap Chan: help, to ask for a second opinion, to have a second pair of eyes because
Sheena Yap Chan: we also have a lot of blind spots. So trying to figure it out ourselves
Sheena Yap Chan: is actually gonna delay us, and being able to seek help or receive
Sheena Yap Chan: help can help us. Right? Like, maybe being taught be like,
Sheena Yap Chan: when it comes to mental health health, like, it's there's no shame in seeking
Sheena Yap Chan: a mental health professional, right, if that's gonna help
Sheena Yap Chan: you. Everyone's different. Maybe reading books will help. Maybe joining a
Sheena Yap Chan: community, a women's group, listening to podcasts like these. You know,
Sheena Yap Chan: there's so many different ways to do it. I think it's just important to pick
Sheena Yap Chan: and choose what would work for you because, like I said, we're all different. We're
Sheena Yap Chan: not all gonna learn the same way. We're gonna we're we'll have similar
Sheena Yap Chan: similar ways, but, of course, each and every one of us will have something
Sheena Yap Chan: different. Even though there's, like, over, what, 8,000,000,000 people in this world, we're
Sheena Yap Chan: all different and unique. Yeah. We
Sheena Yap Chan: are for sure. And would it be such a boring place if we were the
Sheena Yap Chan: same or even similar? It's So we need that, that
Sheena Yap Chan: uniqueness that each of us bring to the party, I guess. I
Sheena Yap Chan: I I suffered, I suppose, in my childhood, that the
Sheena Yap Chan: fear of making mistakes or being over corrected
Sheena Yap Chan: or not allowed to express myself or, and then the same way you talked about
Sheena Yap Chan: colouring outside the lines. I was always
Sheena Yap Chan: told by my father actually that if I was writing a letter
Sheena Yap Chan: or writing, you know back in those days we used to use pens and paper
Sheena Yap Chan: didn't we? And, I was never allowed to write something in ink to start
Sheena Yap Chan: with. I had to write it in pencil, but then when I got it right,
Sheena Yap Chan: I was then allowed to ink over the pencil then rub out the pencil afterwards.
Sheena Yap Chan: So if I was writing a a thank you letter at Christmas or a a
Sheena Yap Chan: letter to a friend or something like that, I always had to write it out
Sheena Yap Chan: and my father would read it first and correct it, and I'd we
Sheena Yap Chan: ended up in crying in tears, and I'd finally be able to ink it in.
Sheena Yap Chan: And I still remember that trauma now of of of never been good enough.
Sheena Yap Chan: Whatever I was doing had to be inspected and
Sheena Yap Chan: passing someone else's test before I was allowed to express
Sheena Yap Chan: myself. So I think I did a couple of creative exercises, which the
Sheena Yap Chan: teacher apparently loved. She told me that it was she loved it. I brought it
Sheena Yap Chan: home to just do a bit of tidying up, and my dad got hold of
Sheena Yap Chan: it and said, you can't write that. That doesn't make any sense. It's a little
Sheena Yap Chan: rubbish. And I had to rewrite it all very clinically, and
Sheena Yap Chan: I ended up not submitting in the end. And the teacher said, what happened to
Sheena Yap Chan: that? I said, oh, I lost it. And, because it, I've been so reinforced
Sheena Yap Chan: into this behaviour that wasn't me.
Sheena Yap Chan: And I could, I could see where all my limiting beliefs and, my
Sheena Yap Chan: perfectionism, if you like, and and the recrastinations come from,
Sheena Yap Chan: because of these sort of ways that I was always bought out by my father.
Sheena Yap Chan: And, yeah, he's taught me procrastination and perfectionism,
Sheena Yap Chan: which has has been a a hindrance sometimes. Yeah. I think I think we've all
Sheena Yap Chan: gone through that. Right? You know, showing up a certain way,
Sheena Yap Chan: being being only acting one way, or else
Sheena Yap Chan: we're not accepted. And it and because of that, we feel like we always need
Sheena Yap Chan: permission from somebody to make moves, take action.
Sheena Yap Chan: And so that's why, for me, I'm always like, I
Sheena Yap Chan: need to put myself out there so that other women can see, like, you don't
Sheena Yap Chan: need permission. You can just go ahead and do it, especially when it comes to
Sheena Yap Chan: self promotion. I mean, a lot of people think it's tacky.
Sheena Yap Chan: It's no good. But for me, it's empowering because it helps you build your
Sheena Yap Chan: confidence. You know, if you have products and services that can help somebody,
Sheena Yap Chan: why why wouldn't you be your biggest advocate? Right? And and it
Sheena Yap Chan: builds also being becoming a leader. Right? Because
Sheena Yap Chan: it shows you many different skills. And it's not easy. It's
Sheena Yap Chan: uncomfortable. It's still very uncomfortable for me, but I realize, again,
Sheena Yap Chan: it's not just about me. There's so many other women out there who feel like
Sheena Yap Chan: they don't have a voice. There's no one that looks like them making moves,
Sheena Yap Chan: and so I have to show up to show others what's possible. And then it
Sheena Yap Chan: goes beyond my culture. Right? It goes to other other cultures, other
Sheena Yap Chan: groups, and and because even though we
Sheena Yap Chan: may come from different cultures, we still go through similar things. And,
Sheena Yap Chan: you know, we just I I I just feel like we need more good in
Sheena Yap Chan: this world. It's just such a chaotic time right now. But
Sheena Yap Chan: one of the one of the problems I've I've I've found recently is that as
Sheena Yap Chan: women, we're not very good at amplifying other women. We
Sheena Yap Chan: we've almost reinforced the limiting beliefs or we're
Sheena Yap Chan: trying to put other women down. And we'd we're our worst enemy
Sheena Yap Chan: sometimes, not promoting ourselves or each other or beating each other up. We can
Sheena Yap Chan: be very critical, hypercritical, more than more men often than men are
Sheena Yap Chan: sometimes. Yeah. I I you know, I've witnessed that. You
Sheena Yap Chan: know, sometimes part of the reason why women don't move forward is because
Sheena Yap Chan: we're the problem. Right? And, you know, instead of tearing each
Sheena Yap Chan: other down, we should be lifting each other up. And I I get it. You
Sheena Yap Chan: know, it's years of, like, programming thinking that there's only
Sheena Yap Chan: one spot at the top, not relying there's not realizing there's so many
Sheena Yap Chan: spots, or we can create our own table or our own platforms,
Sheena Yap Chan: and it takes a huge mind shift to to gets get away
Sheena Yap Chan: from. You know, there's a lot of work to do, of course, but it has
Sheena Yap Chan: to start with us putting ourselves out there, showing others we
Sheena Yap Chan: can make a change. Because if, collectively, we work together,
Sheena Yap Chan: that's how we can overcome so many big problems that we encounter still.
Sheena Yap Chan: So we know this. Everything you're saying, we know. It's it's in your book. It's
Sheena Yap Chan: in other people's book. It's, we talk about it at conferences. We have
Sheena Yap Chan: women in parent sessions. We we have leadership coaches
Sheena Yap Chan: aiming at women. We everything you're talk we're talking about here now, we know.
Sheena Yap Chan: So so why aren't we making a huge difference in a huge change
Sheena Yap Chan: or the change we want to make? I think there's still a lot
Sheena Yap Chan: of, I guess this is just what I
Sheena Yap Chan: think, so it's not the absolute truth.
Sheena Yap Chan: I think there's still a lot of mindset shifts we have
Sheena Yap Chan: to work on. You know, everything starts with how we perceive things.
Sheena Yap Chan: And when we can learn to shift how we think, that's when
Sheena Yap Chan: we can start creating the change. You know, like I mentioned, there's still a lot
Sheena Yap Chan: of people in the scarcity mindset, and
Sheena Yap Chan: we have to unlearn a lot of things too at the process. Right? When you've
Sheena Yap Chan: been taught the same thing for generations, for years,
Sheena Yap Chan: it might take some time to to fix that.
Sheena Yap Chan: Right? Fix the way we see things, fix the way we think. I mean,
Sheena Yap Chan: when it you know, when you look at reports, they say, like, girls start
Sheena Yap Chan: having confidence issues as young as 6 years old. Right?
Sheena Yap Chan: Versus boys, they they don't, you know, they start building
Sheena Yap Chan: confidence at 8. So it's a big difference. And so
Sheena Yap Chan: that's that's why we have to keep showing up, keep showing others what's possible,
Sheena Yap Chan: be able to encourage others even when times are tough.
Sheena Yap Chan: There's no easy fix, of course. But if we just take
Sheena Yap Chan: it one step at a time, just imagine what we can achieve. Are men doing
Sheena Yap Chan: enough to help? There are men
Sheena Yap Chan: out there who are great allies, and at the same time, there are men who
Sheena Yap Chan: aren't doing great things. Right? I mean, there's gaps for a
Sheena Yap Chan: reason. Right? Leadership gaps, gaps in different industries.
Sheena Yap Chan: I mean, you look at the VC the VC world, like,
Sheena Yap Chan: only 2% of women get funding. And when they do get funding, it's only,
Sheena Yap Chan: like, $1,000,000 versus, like, you look at the guy
Sheena Yap Chan: who owned WeWork. He got he made it bankrupt, opened
Sheena Yap Chan: a new company, and got, like, $300,000,000 funding just because
Sheena Yap Chan: you know, even though his track record isn't great, meanwhile, women
Sheena Yap Chan: over you know, are very smart or very capable, have prepared such an
Sheena Yap Chan: amazing presentation, and yet
Sheena Yap Chan: they'd be lucky if they get 7 figure funding. Right? And it's
Sheena Yap Chan: tough. And sometimes I don't even know what the answer is
Sheena Yap Chan: to break through that unless we just keep moving forward and
Sheena Yap Chan: just be persistent to show them, like, you need to pay us. Right?
Sheena Yap Chan: Pay us for what we're worth. And it's always a constant battle.
Sheena Yap Chan: Right? Because it's like, you know, if if we go
Sheena Yap Chan: out there and ask for more, now we're seen as aggressive or too much. Meanwhile,
Sheena Yap Chan: guys ask, and it's like they're confident. But if we don't
Sheena Yap Chan: ask, then it's also our fault. There's always, like, this double standard that we have
Sheena Yap Chan: to live by, and it's exhausting. That's why it's important to
Sheena Yap Chan: dismantle these these notions, you know, especially for women. We need to have
Sheena Yap Chan: more positive positive, I guess, words
Sheena Yap Chan: or labels, you know, instead of being aggressive. Like, why aren't we confident?
Sheena Yap Chan: We're doing the same thing. Why are we still labeled as aggressive versus being confident?
Sheena Yap Chan: I mean, we can definitely go through a whole conversation on this because there's
Sheena Yap Chan: just so many layers and and and things that we
Sheena Yap Chan: still go through, and it's tough. I mean, I'm right
Sheena Yap Chan: I I wrote all about that in my next book that's coming next year
Sheena Yap Chan: because I think it's important to be aware of all these things that we're still
Sheena Yap Chan: going through and then finding a way to solve it. Like I
Sheena Yap Chan: mentioned, it's not gonna happen overnight, but if we don't do
Sheena Yap Chan: anything, you know, the World Economic Forum mentioned it's gonna take
Sheena Yap Chan: a 130 years for gender parity to be achieved, at least.
Sheena Yap Chan: But I feel like at the rate we're going, it's gonna take longer. You know,
Sheena Yap Chan: when you hear women in Afghanistan not being able to have
Sheena Yap Chan: a voice, not being be being able to speak in public, show their faces
Sheena Yap Chan: in public, not not being able to sing in their
Sheena Yap Chan: own home. Like, I think that is ridiculous,
Sheena Yap Chan: and some people might think, well, that doesn't affect me. But for me, it
Sheena Yap Chan: does. As a woman, like, it does affect you because if one country can do
Sheena Yap Chan: it, imagine how many more countries can do it in the year of
Sheena Yap Chan: 2024 when we think women's rights have, you know,
Sheena Yap Chan: moved way forward when it feels like we took one step forward and 5 steps
Sheena Yap Chan: back. So I guess this is why I'm so passionate,
Sheena Yap Chan: and I keep persisting even when at times I question myself, you
Sheena Yap Chan: know, especially when you're doing something for the greater good. I think
Sheena Yap Chan: sometimes in our journeys, we question, like, is this the right path? Am I doing
Sheena Yap Chan: the right thing? Is this making sense? And when
Sheena Yap Chan: we get a sign from the universe or, you know, when
Sheena Yap Chan: someone comes up to us and tells us how much has helped them, then I
Sheena Yap Chan: realize, yeah, I know where I'm going. So we definitely have a lot of
Sheena Yap Chan: work to do. It it always frustrates me when we you you
Sheena Yap Chan: mentioned the World Economic Forum Statistics under the
Sheena Yap Chan: 34 years, gender parity, gender equity, and the and the that's
Sheena Yap Chan: generally in the western world. If you look at the the whole world, it it
Sheena Yap Chan: touches near 200 years, and that's clearly not a great place to be.
Sheena Yap Chan: This, women succeed when they're
Sheena Yap Chan: more like men, is the frustration, isn't it? There's this myth
Sheena Yap Chan: that you can't, you have to sacrifice something in your life, you know, you
Sheena Yap Chan: have to either sacrifice some of your maternal instinct, your
Sheena Yap Chan: nurturing instinct to you. You have to be the one that's going to work late,
Sheena Yap Chan: travel the world, stand up in meetings, be
Sheena Yap Chan: loud, be boisterous, be one of the lads in order to succeed.
Sheena Yap Chan: It's really hard to be a woman being a woman, isn't it?
Sheena Yap Chan: It definitely is. I mean, it's definitely not easy. There's
Sheena Yap Chan: still so many double standards. You know, if we don't speak
Sheena Yap Chan: up, then it's our fault. If we speak up, we're too much.
Sheena Yap Chan: You know, like, the backlash women get just for
Sheena Yap Chan: speaking up is horrendous. I mean, I've been through it, and it's not
Sheena Yap Chan: fun, and I had to learn to work through that too. I mean, yes, it's
Sheena Yap Chan: easy to say just ignore it, but, like, as a human being, you
Sheena Yap Chan: know, it's gonna get to you sometimes. Right? And
Sheena Yap Chan: we have to learn to work through it or find outlets to let it out
Sheena Yap Chan: or talk to somebody who's been through something similar so that we
Sheena Yap Chan: realize, like, once that happens again, we can learn to move forward
Sheena Yap Chan: and be like, okay. That's just someone's opinion. Right? That's just probably
Sheena Yap Chan: somebody who's just brave behind a computer,
Sheena Yap Chan: but, you know, in the like, if they were in that same position, they probably
Sheena Yap Chan: wouldn't be able to go through it. And sometimes the people attacking
Sheena Yap Chan: you might be projecting what they're feeling. And it's
Sheena Yap Chan: it sucks that it happens to us, but at the same time,
Sheena Yap Chan: things happen for a reason. It could be a blessing or a lesson.
Sheena Yap Chan: And those lessons, we can also share with the audience. Right?
Sheena Yap Chan: Knowing that I've been through it. You're not the only one going through
Sheena Yap Chan: it. Yeah. It sucks. And, you know, what I get is
Sheena Yap Chan: nothing compared to some of the other women that I've seen, just the
Sheena Yap Chan: backlash they get. It's it's it's terrible. And
Sheena Yap Chan: sometimes I'm just I just pray that they're okay
Sheena Yap Chan: and that they can get through it because sometimes it's all we need
Sheena Yap Chan: we can do at that point. Right? So We see
Sheena Yap Chan: many women in their forties and fifties
Sheena Yap Chan: finally finding their voice. So they they've had their their
Sheena Yap Chan: family. They've had their time to be them, if you like,
Sheena Yap Chan: their maternal instincts. And then when they come back in their 40s
Sheena Yap Chan: 50s, they're finding that new empowerment.
Sheena Yap Chan: And we see a lot of rising, there's certainly female entrepreneurs in their
Sheena Yap Chan: 50s now, where they, they've, they've had what they needed to do, but
Sheena Yap Chan: they're still 10 years behind their male counterparts at that point now, because
Sheena Yap Chan: because they have had a career break, because that's what that's what mattered to them
Sheena Yap Chan: at the time. They they didn't wanna sacrifice what mattered to them,
Sheena Yap Chan: whereas men can still a man with a good boy a woman
Sheena Yap Chan: next to him can always get away with, if you like, outsourcing the
Sheena Yap Chan: family responsibility to the mother and or the the
Sheena Yap Chan: other parent, if you like, however you wanna describe the relationship. So
Sheena Yap Chan: it's it's how are we ever gonna solve that problem? Oh my gosh.
Sheena Yap Chan: I don't even know, to be honest. Like, I you know,
Sheena Yap Chan: I mean, I don't always have all the answers. Right? Especially, like, I'm I don't
Sheena Yap Chan: have kids. I'm not a mother. It's it's it's
Sheena Yap Chan: I mean, it I guess it's something that we have to figure out one step
Sheena Yap Chan: at a time, whatever that may look like. And I know it's not
Sheena Yap Chan: easy because if it was easy, everyone would be working on this.
Sheena Yap Chan: Right? I mean, it's and I think it's okay sometimes to say
Sheena Yap Chan: you don't even know what that answer might be even though I talk about
Sheena Yap Chan: confidence all the time. I think we're also afraid of
Sheena Yap Chan: having the wrong answer. We're also afraid of saying I don't know. But at the
Sheena Yap Chan: same time, I think it's refreshing to say that because sometimes I don't know. I
Sheena Yap Chan: don't really know what to say at times. Right? And I
Sheena Yap Chan: remember not being afraid to say I don't know. I would have, like, major anxiety
Sheena Yap Chan: attacks thinking I had to know everything before putting this before, like,
Sheena Yap Chan: showing people that, you know, I'm capable. Like, I may not know the answer
Sheena Yap Chan: now, but as we keep focusing on this issue, we can find an
Sheena Yap Chan: answer later. So I hope that kinda helps.
Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah. I mean, I I look at when I was starting a family
Sheena Yap Chan: back in the mid nineties. We were early nineties, we started our family,
Sheena Yap Chan: and it's a different world, you know. Now we look at property
Sheena Yap Chan: prices, rental prices, economic climate.
Sheena Yap Chan: Most families now need 2 incomes in order to pay the
Sheena Yap Chan: rent, pay the mortgage. It's a real pressure now
Sheena Yap Chan: for, for women, because they're the ones that are looking to
Sheena Yap Chan: pause their career to have children, or choose, we're not going to have
Sheena Yap Chan: children because we can't afford it, so women are being asked to compromise their, their
Sheena Yap Chan: sense of self, you know I said earlier about you've got to focus on what's
Sheena Yap Chan: important to you and not be led by societal's
Sheena Yap Chan: expectations. So if you have an expectation, you want to have a career,
Sheena Yap Chan: fine. But many women still want to have a family, and many men want a
Sheena Yap Chan: family as well, and it's, it's unfair that we have to choose,
Sheena Yap Chan: and it's it's unfair that women are the ones that have to do the sacrifice,
Sheena Yap Chan: because the structures aren't in place with shared paternity leave,
Sheena Yap Chan: there's still stigma about men becoming primary carers for
Sheena Yap Chan: children, they're seen as weak. Again, these stereotypes reinforce
Sheena Yap Chan: there, so almost like we've got to give permission for men to be
Sheena Yap Chan: full time parents first, to allow that, that role
Sheena Yap Chan: to be valued in society. Yeah. Yeah.
Sheena Yap Chan: Right. We know the answer. We're gonna solve that one first. Yeah. You're right. It's
Sheena Yap Chan: a it's a it's a it's there's so many chicken and
Sheena Yap Chan: eggs here, isn't there? There's so many, gotta fix that, gotta fix that, gotta fix
Sheena Yap Chan: the other. Yeah. But, so all of this plays
Sheena Yap Chan: into the the lack of confidence, the, the lack of persistence, the lack
Sheena Yap Chan: of resilience, the the people you work with are finding that,
Sheena Yap Chan: some of it's cultural around your, your own personal culture
Sheena Yap Chan: but also it's the culture of being a woman and societal constructs
Sheena Yap Chan: and the expectations of being a woman. And that's doubly reinforcing, not
Sheena Yap Chan: just for Asian women, also other women, yeah. Yeah.
Sheena Yap Chan: You play into the self perpetuating cycle
Sheena Yap Chan: of of of of oppression, for one of the better way of describing it.
Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I realized, you know, just
Sheena Yap Chan: after realizing, like, talking to so many other women, you know, we go through
Sheena Yap Chan: similar things. We may look different. We may come from different cultures, but we still
Sheena Yap Chan: go through so many similar things. Like, mental health is still a taboo.
Sheena Yap Chan: Right? Not feeling good enough. Feeling like we have to be a certain skin color
Sheena Yap Chan: to be beautiful. Like, if you look at skin whitening creams, it's like a
Sheena Yap Chan: multibillion dollar industry. So that's a worldwide thing,
Sheena Yap Chan: not realizing everyone's beautiful in the skin they're in no matter what shade that is.
Sheena Yap Chan: And so it's unfortunate that they're profiting
Sheena Yap Chan: off of women's insecurities because, I guess,
Sheena Yap Chan: I think everyone's beautiful in their own skin, and we have to learn to
Sheena Yap Chan: just show up that way even if it's scary. Right? Even if
Sheena Yap Chan: we wake up with a pimple on our nose, you know, it's still us.
Sheena Yap Chan: So it's, yeah, it's it's
Sheena Yap Chan: it's yeah. There's a lot of stuff, I guess, we have to work on.
Sheena Yap Chan: It is. That expectation, as you say, for for beauty, and, I'm very conscious
Sheena Yap Chan: about the fact that when I walk out the front door, I want to look
Sheena Yap Chan: at myself in the mirror and go, yeah, I've made an effort today. If I,
Sheena Yap Chan: if I go out without make up, wearing just jeans and the
Sheena Yap Chan: top, I sometimes think, I look at myself and think, I'm just feeling really
Sheena Yap Chan: lazy today, I just want to go, I just want to sneak out and then
Sheena Yap Chan: you come back and you think, wish I put a bit of color on or
Sheena Yap Chan: wish I put a bit of this on or and it it's there is that
Sheena Yap Chan: pressure you feel. In my past life, I never used to have that experience. I
Sheena Yap Chan: would just show up as I as I showed up and not even give it
Sheena Yap Chan: a thought. But there is an expectation to show up as the best you all
Sheena Yap Chan: the time. Yeah. I mean, I think it's that need for perfection. Right? Being that
Sheena Yap Chan: perfect person and then, you know, you look at fashion magazines,
Sheena Yap Chan: like, all you see is perfectly curated edited photos of
Sheena Yap Chan: models, not realizing, like, they do so much editing that you can't
Sheena Yap Chan: do that in real life. Like, you can't just shave off part of your waist,
Sheena Yap Chan: part of your leg to make it look beautiful. You know, a lot of
Sheena Yap Chan: women and even men go through body dysmorphia because of
Sheena Yap Chan: that. And even in the pandemic, people are going through Zoom
Sheena Yap Chan: dysmorphia, right, because they didn't like how they look on Zoom, and so they went
Sheena Yap Chan: to get surgery so that they could look better on Zoom. And that and
Sheena Yap Chan: it might sound ridiculous, but it it did like, that was a thing.
Sheena Yap Chan: Right? And so this is why I think it's important sometimes to just show up
Sheena Yap Chan: as your imperfect self. Be okay that, yes, you may have
Sheena Yap Chan: blemishes on your face. You may have scars on your body
Sheena Yap Chan: from falling down when you were biking or whatever that may be because
Sheena Yap Chan: that's who you are. And, you know, that tells you the story of what
Sheena Yap Chan: you went through, how much resilience you had, persistence to be where you
Sheena Yap Chan: are today. Yeah. You're too short. Your bum's too big. Your bum's too
Sheena Yap Chan: small. You've got no waste. You've got too much waste. Whatever it may be,
Sheena Yap Chan: That those are all messages, as you say, we're reinforcing the beauty industry.
Sheena Yap Chan: I have my nails painted yesterday, and that's once you
Sheena Yap Chan: get on that conveyor belt, you have to go back every 3 or 4 weeks
Sheena Yap Chan: because they grow, you have to take it off, put it back on again, your
Sheena Yap Chan: hair, you get into this cycle of suit, you leave the salon, they book you
Sheena Yap Chan: in your next appointment. So the on cost of being a woman, just just
Sheena Yap Chan: to show up in the world is, but just face cream, makeup,
Sheena Yap Chan: beauty, hair, nails, 15 different
Sheena Yap Chan: pairs of shoes depending on what the weather is, different outfits depending on what the
Sheena Yap Chan: weather is. You can't wear the same thing twice or everyone says, hang on, you
Sheena Yap Chan: wore that yesterday, didn't you? So you've got all this pressure, whereas men
Sheena Yap Chan: just turn up in the same suit, they just maybe change their shirt every day
Sheena Yap Chan: and put a different tie on, But, fundamentally, there's there's less expectations.
Sheena Yap Chan: People aren't judging men in the same way. Yeah. Totally. I mean,
Sheena Yap Chan: especially when it comes to parties. Right? Like, you can't wear the same dress twice.
Sheena Yap Chan: People will notice. You know? Men can wear the same suit over and over
Sheena Yap Chan: and over again and never get judged. Like, these just little simple things like
Sheena Yap Chan: this. If you go to a posh night owl, you wear a
Sheena Yap Chan: tux as a man, don't you? And, and it's a a
Sheena Yap Chan: black black dinner jacket with a a a white
Sheena Yap Chan: wing collar and a bow tie. Yeah. That that you can wear
Sheena Yap Chan: that every single time you go out. That's what's expected of you for as you
Sheena Yap Chan: say, as a woman, we have to go shop for the new dress, have our
Sheena Yap Chan: hair done, have our nails done, probably a pedicure, probably a massage, a
Sheena Yap Chan: facial as well just to make sure we glow and we're radiant. But since we
Sheena Yap Chan: walk into the room, we're then we're then comparing ourselves to every other woman in
Sheena Yap Chan: the room, aren't we? We're then judging, you know, going back to what you're saying
Sheena Yap Chan: earlier about being our own worst critic. We're now putting
Sheena Yap Chan: ourselves down and competing with every other woman in the room to
Sheena Yap Chan: be the most attractive or the most, yeah, the most standout
Sheena Yap Chan: person, and again, we're doing it to ourselves. Yeah, for
Sheena Yap Chan: sure. So your books about overcoming this
Sheena Yap Chan: crisis of confidence, this persistence, What are the top
Sheena Yap Chan: tips for someone listening to this, this episode today? What what's the
Sheena Yap Chan: top tips? You know, where do we where do we start? I think the most
Sheena Yap Chan: important is really getting to the root cause as to why we we're feeling this
Sheena Yap Chan: way. Right? I mean, I wrote the book the child self confidence, a guide to
Sheena Yap Chan: moving beyond trauma and awakening leader within because
Sheena Yap Chan: we need to work through our traumas. We have a lot of unresolved traumas that
Sheena Yap Chan: we're afraid to work through, and it's really important to get to the root
Sheena Yap Chan: cause. Because if we don't heal from that, it's just gonna keep
Sheena Yap Chan: taking over our our our life. Right? We just feel like
Sheena Yap Chan: we're not good enough. We're not gonna go out there and make things happen because
Sheena Yap Chan: of the traumas we've been through. And not just only our own traumas, but the
Sheena Yap Chan: traumas of our parents, our grandparents, and so on. And so,
Sheena Yap Chan: really, I think that's the most important thing. Get to that root
Sheena Yap Chan: cause as to why you're feeling that way. And then once you're able to heal
Sheena Yap Chan: from it, you know, the how will appear. Right? Like, being able to find ways
Sheena Yap Chan: to build confidence. I mean, I can share so many different ways to build
Sheena Yap Chan: confidence, but the most important thing is to really work through that
Sheena Yap Chan: unresolved trauma. Or maybe just maybe you're not even aware that you're
Sheena Yap Chan: there's trauma in you. Right? Maybe trying to figure out, is there trauma? Like,
Sheena Yap Chan: how can you how can you find that? Maybe talk to family members or,
Sheena Yap Chan: you know, like, your body will give you signals if something is wrong
Sheena Yap Chan: and just learning to be curious and asking the right questions so that the
Sheena Yap Chan: right answers will appear. How do people
Sheena Yap Chan: challenge power, if you want? Because that's the problem sometimes, isn't it? The
Sheena Yap Chan: when you talk about marginalization, you talk about less privilege, whatever
Sheena Yap Chan: however you would describe it. How do people push back against the power
Sheena Yap Chan: systems that exist? And without sometimes, as you say at the
Sheena Yap Chan: you said right at the beginning that you don't see role models, so you're gonna
Sheena Yap Chan: be doing this fit in a very isolated way. You're gonna feel very exposed,
Sheena Yap Chan: very vulnerable. How how do we find our inner strength?
Sheena Yap Chan: Well, for me, the purpose is really important. Right? For me, representation was really
Sheena Yap Chan: important. I didn't want current future generations to go through what I went
Sheena Yap Chan: through growing up in Toronto. And so when times are tough, that's what I
Sheena Yap Chan: that's what I always go back to. It's like, why am I doing this? It's
Sheena Yap Chan: because I realize we need representation.
Sheena Yap Chan: We need better role models. We need someone that looks like us so that
Sheena Yap Chan: others can feel seen and realize what's possible for
Sheena Yap Chan: themselves. So, I I mean, having a big purpose is really
Sheena Yap Chan: important, or else you're not gonna go out there and do half the things you're
Sheena Yap Chan: gonna do. It's not gonna help you build the confidence to keep moving forward. I
Sheena Yap Chan: always go through that every time I'm feeling down or not feeling like I'm
Sheena Yap Chan: a 100 percent a 110% confident. That's that's
Sheena Yap Chan: really helped me. I've always led with my purpose, even
Sheena Yap Chan: to people who have never met me or know me, but they can they
Sheena Yap Chan: know what I stand for. And so when people know what you stand for,
Sheena Yap Chan: it's just a lot easier for you to go out
Sheena Yap Chan: there and take action or have the right people come to you. But as you're
Sheena Yap Chan: as you're speaking now, I'm thinking it's it's about personal brand,
Sheena Yap Chan: being authentic, and and those you mentioned by the beginning about values,
Sheena Yap Chan: you know, understanding what you stand for, who you are, what's important to you,
Sheena Yap Chan: things you need to shed, things you need to focus on, and be really
Sheena Yap Chan: disciplined about your core values, I guess, and what you, and who
Sheena Yap Chan: you are. Yeah. And how do we find those? Because, again,
Sheena Yap Chan: that's that's the other challenge, isn't it? You know, I not everybody is used to
Sheena Yap Chan: be able to crystallize that as a thought, and that's maybe that's part of the
Sheena Yap Chan: coaching you do. I think that's why you don't have to do things a
Sheena Yap Chan: lot. Right? Everyone always thinks that they have to
Sheena Yap Chan: figure the these things out on their own, not realizing
Sheena Yap Chan: there's someone out there who can help you find those values.
Sheena Yap Chan: Right? Base like, there's personality tests. There's
Sheena Yap Chan: archetypes that can give you a set of values
Sheena Yap Chan: that may align with you, and then you can pick and choose if that works
Sheena Yap Chan: for you. If not, you can pick something else. Right? And at the same time,
Sheena Yap Chan: you have to know what you feel is good for you. Right? Just because someone
Sheena Yap Chan: tells you these are your values, and you're like, I don't know about the third
Sheena Yap Chan: one. Maybe it's this one. And if you feel better on the on what you've
Sheena Yap Chan: chose, then that's great. But being able to give you a
Sheena Yap Chan: list that may work that may be those values, and then
Sheena Yap Chan: you can come then then you can start thinking, well, is it
Sheena Yap Chan: really, you know, just really going through that work, taking through that taking make
Sheena Yap Chan: maybe 2 hours out of your time to really work through that
Sheena Yap Chan: and really figure it out, it can help you a lot. So sometimes you
Sheena Yap Chan: just need someone to start it for you to figure
Sheena Yap Chan: it out and finish it. So persistence, confidence,
Sheena Yap Chan: support, mentoring, owning who you are, and
Sheena Yap Chan: saying to yourself, if I don't change,
Sheena Yap Chan: it won't change. Yeah. So taking that personal responsibility is is part of it as
Sheena Yap Chan: well. Yeah. Brilliant. Absolutely fantastic. Sheena, I've loved
Sheena Yap Chan: chatting away for the last hour and a bit. How do people get hold of
Sheena Yap Chan: you? Tell us more about your book, your LinkedIn, your website. Yeah. For sure. So
Sheena Yap Chan: check out my website, sheanyapchan.com, or you can if you wanna check out
Sheena Yap Chan: all my social media profiles and links, just go to sheenyapchan.comforward/links.
Sheena Yap Chan: All my books are there. You can order. It's available on Amazon and all major
Sheena Yap Chan: book retailers. On my website, sheenyapchan.com, there's also a free
Sheena Yap Chan: quiz that you can take to know your self confidence personality. So
Sheena Yap Chan: it's a couple questions. You get the results right away. And I'm on
Sheena Yap Chan: LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter,
Sheena Yap Chan: or x, TikTok. But if you forget anything,
Sheena Yap Chan: I said, if you just Google my name, Sheena Yap Chan. I'm the only Sheena
Sheena Yap Chan: Yap Chan, so it makes it easier. So Sheena is s
Sheena Yap Chan: h, double e, n a, y a p, and then
Sheena Yap Chan: Chan, c h a n. Yeah. Yep. Fantastic. Well, as
Sheena Yap Chan: I say, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting to you today, and,
Sheena Yap Chan: I'm gonna go check your book out on Amazon in a minute and, and and
Sheena Yap Chan: take a look at that and also your website. So I'm really interested to find
Sheena Yap Chan: out more. So thank you so much, and it's been a pleasure talking
Sheena Yap Chan: to you. Same here. Thanks again for having me.
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