Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your
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Joanne Lockwood: Today is episode 140 with the
Joanne Lockwood: title, getting back up. And I have the
Joanne Lockwood: absolute honor and privilege to welcome Alex Williams.
Joanne Lockwood: Alex is a passionate speaker and mental health practitioner,
Joanne Lockwood: and is dedicated to helping people rise after life's
Joanne Lockwood: toughest knocks. When asked Alex to describe his
Joanne Lockwood: superpower, he says it is creating empowering
Joanne Lockwood: environments that inspire, transform with
Joanne Lockwood: self discovery and resilience. Hello, Alex.
Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me on today. My pleasure.
Joanne Lockwood: I can't remember if we've ever actually met in person, but we've certainly seen each
Joanne Lockwood: other online a lot through the Professional Speaking Association and other
Joanne Lockwood: mutual friends. Yeah. I I think last time I saw you was at breakfast at
Alex Williams: the last not last PSA conference the year before.
Alex Williams: But I did my usual thing where I feel awkward, and then I say hello
Alex Williams: and then disappears, hide in the background. Yeah. Well, we've met then.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Yes. That's it. Well, I've been really keen to to find out more about
Joanne Lockwood: your story because I as I say, I do follow you on LinkedIn and see
Joanne Lockwood: some of the post you're doing. Yeah. So, Alex, getting back up, where
Joanne Lockwood: did that come from? Well, I've been working in the mental health space
Alex Williams: for 20 years now. And along with my own
Alex Williams: personal story, kind of found that
Alex Williams: people don't really know
Alex Williams: the key ingredients to recovering from the setbacks that knock us down in
Alex Williams: life. Now, obviously, trying to explain what I do as a
Alex Williams: job day to day, you tell anyone what mental health practitioners do. It's kinda hard,
Alex Williams: but, essentially, it came to that thing of, well, really, I'm helping people to recover
Alex Williams: from those setbacks they face. But it really became a massive passion of mine
Alex Williams: to really kind kind of get to those core ingredients so I can so when
Alex Williams: I'm working with people, rather than saying, oh, you should try this modality, you should
Alex Williams: try this thing, or try that, Kinda really focus on the the basics
Alex Williams: so we can get a real solid foundation so people can then have something to
Alex Williams: work from, and then they can kind of navigate to a a
Alex Williams: path that's right for them to help them work towards and achieve whatever they
Alex Williams: want to in life. When you use the phrase mental health, it it conjures
Joanne Lockwood: up stigma or failure or all
Joanne Lockwood: these words of negativity. But we all have mental
Joanne Lockwood: health. It just has different attributes
Joanne Lockwood: depending on it's and it's not linear either, is it? No. No. It's I
Alex Williams: mean, it's it's on a spectrum, really. It's, you know, there's a we all have
Alex Williams: mental health, and although there's some maybe issues that
Alex Williams: present come with referring to everything under the mental health or
Alex Williams: emotional health umbrella, it's important that we realize that we're all susceptible
Alex Williams: to struggling at times. I don't really like the term mental health,
Alex Williams: I'm gonna be honest, because I think that makes people think in isolation that
Alex Williams: it's just something wrong with their brains, for example, when actually
Alex Williams: we're all one be being, aren't we? We we have physical
Alex Williams: our physical body, our emotions, our mind. It's all connected. So I kind
Alex Williams: of I use the word mental health because that's what everyone knows, but
Alex Williams: I think I try encourage people to think as a as a whole, you know,
Alex Williams: and with with the communities around us in fact because that's essentially
Alex Williams: probably the biggest impact on our mental health usually.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I I went through this with my, mother-in-law a couple of years
Joanne Lockwood: ago. She's passed away since, but she was in hospital.
Joanne Lockwood: And the hospital seemed so focused on her physical health,
Joanne Lockwood: but she was struggling with her mental health, around early
Joanne Lockwood: onset dementia, around anxiety, around just being
Joanne Lockwood: uncomfortable in in the environment. They they weren't treating
Joanne Lockwood: her holistically. So medical professions are so
Joanne Lockwood: busy trying to put a sticky plaster on something and not actually get into
Joanne Lockwood: people's heads. Are they? Yeah. Yeah. You're a 100% right. It's
Alex Williams: it's I think when we look at the system and how it works, I mean,
Alex Williams: it is still you know, NHS in this country, for example, it was
Alex Williams: designed to treat acute problems, not really complex
Alex Williams: chronic issues such as the one you described. And so, therefore,
Alex Williams: if it's not their problems, like, oh, it must be someone else's problem as
Alex Williams: opposed to actually, like, maybe we should all communicate and recognize that, actually,
Alex Williams: yes, what you just described is gonna make you struggle mentally and emotionally,
Alex Williams: you know, and, yeah, you know, that's gonna be impacting you and that in turn,
Alex Williams: it's gonna impact your physical health or vice versa.
Alex Williams: So it's a big issue I encounter because I often banging my head against brick
Alex Williams: walls. I'm saying, oh, we need to why don't we communicate and tackle this
Alex Williams: together? Or, actually, we also need to you know, if someone's comes to me and
Alex Williams: they've got no mood, but they've got chronic pain, for example, then it's like, why
Alex Williams: aren't why aren't we addressing that chronic pain as opposed to just thinking it's all
Alex Williams: in their head, which is often what people will often come to be saying they've
Alex Williams: been told. So it's a frustration of mine, I mean. When we live in a
Joanne Lockwood: well, the modern world is 24 by 7.
Joanne Lockwood: We're connected. We're addicted to our phones. We're feeding ourselves with
Joanne Lockwood: social media. News is is polarizing us
Joanne Lockwood: with negative stories and causing us to react to
Joanne Lockwood: stuff and get emotionally engaged in things that we you know,
Joanne Lockwood: 20, 30 years ago, we would have been almost blissfully unaware of because the
Joanne Lockwood: emotional engagement wasn't there. It's no wonder we're we're being
Joanne Lockwood: pulled from emotion to emotion to to different things
Joanne Lockwood: because there's so much going on in the world now, isn't it? Yeah. Lots of,
Alex Williams: it's when I'm often talking about with the clients I work with. It's like
Alex Williams: how I don't think we realize as a society is
Alex Williams: how we're so busy because we're plugged into all these things with
Alex Williams: all these stresses coming at us, stresses like you've already said that we wouldn't have
Alex Williams: been aware of. I mean, I wasn't aware of when I was a kid, like,
Alex Williams: what people the other city away from me or town were
Alex Williams: doing or the other village were doing, let alone what people are doing around the
Alex Williams: world and what was going on. Of course, you watch the news and see what's
Alex Williams: going on, but now we've got so many things going on, so many so
Alex Williams: many bad things that we see that can upset us, but also so many people
Alex Williams: to compare ourselves to that kind of it can make us it's
Alex Williams: so easy to become susceptible to struggling with our emotions mentally because
Alex Williams: we're looking at everyone thinking, why why aren't I achieving
Alex Williams: that? Or that's awful. I can't believe that's happening. When reality is we don't really
Alex Williams: have any impact over that stuff. We only have impact over ourselves and what we
Alex Williams: choose to do to that to day to day. But it can be easy to
Alex Williams: forget that when everything's going on around us, and that's all we're watching. Yeah. I
Joanne Lockwood: mean, I I've I've done some TV interviews and things in the past,
Joanne Lockwood: and one of the one of the key anchor questions is, how are you feeling?
Joanne Lockwood: How does that make you feel? How how are you on that? You you win
Joanne Lockwood: an Olympic medal. The first thing to do is stick a mic in your face
Joanne Lockwood: is, how do you feel about that? So we're we're thriving on
Joanne Lockwood: someone else's energy and feelings, aren't we? We're trying to build this
Joanne Lockwood: empathy. Yeah. And, of course, we're absorbing that. And if I
Joanne Lockwood: don't feel great, this person's gonna make me feel worse.
Alex Williams: Yeah. Yeah. And I you know, it's a problem because
Alex Williams: of, like, I think when you're when you're looking at some when you're
Alex Williams: looking at people who have success, for example, for example, it can often make us
Alex Williams: look at our lives, can't it, if you're not in a good spot. And, you
Alex Williams: know, comparison is not the worst thing in the world. Like, it's good to have
Alex Williams: role models and ask yourselves, how can I be like or achieve that
Alex Williams: person, be achieved what that person's achieved, that sort of stuff? But if we're not
Alex Williams: in a good spot, and many people aren't, most people I would say
Alex Williams: have terrible relationships with themselves even though on the surface on social media, they act
Alex Williams: like everything's, you know, got everything together. But when we're doing that, it can often
Alex Williams: just make ourselves feel worse. You know? Seeing people achieve success all the
Alex Williams: time, whatever that looks whatever that is can just make us feel awful and
Alex Williams: especially if we're in a bad spot. But also, I think
Alex Williams: on the flip side, I would say that even though it's good to be vulnerable
Alex Williams: and share our worst experiences,
Alex Williams: Sometimes we can also get attached to that and
Alex Williams: almost feel like we, you know, we watch content that kind
Alex Williams: of reaffirms what we're experiencing, but equally,
Alex Williams: that validation can keep us stuck as well. So it's kind of I
Alex Williams: find with that stuff, it's kind of like, we need a happy medium, really. We
Alex Williams: need to, yes, look at people who are gonna push us out of our comfort
Alex Williams: zone even though I hate to say an access such a cliche term, but I'm
Alex Williams: gonna say it anyway. But we also want people to make us realize that actually
Alex Williams: where we are, we're not alone. We're not isolated in that. We're
Alex Williams: not this isn't where we're gonna be. This is where it's okay to feel how
Alex Williams: we do, but so but we don't wanna stay there. So it's kind of like,
Alex Williams: how do we find that happy medium? I'm still I'm still struggling with
Alex Williams: that one myself just to be real. It's like, who do I follow that makes
Alex Williams: you feel like I'm pushing myself a little bit, but also not too far
Alex Williams: where I'm like, oh god. This is just I can't take this. That's where the
Joanne Lockwood: word authenticity comes in. It's you want you want to
Joanne Lockwood: associate yourself with people who are real and succeeding,
Joanne Lockwood: not faking it, their success, or faking their mental
Joanne Lockwood: health, or faking their what they're achieving. Because I'm going through a a weight loss
Joanne Lockwood: journey at the moment, and I'm a member of some of these, Facebook support
Joanne Lockwood: groups. And clearly, some people are making stuff
Joanne Lockwood: up. Some people are trolling people or throwing comments in
Joanne Lockwood: there. And you get people if yourself go, I'm a failure. I can't do what
Joanne Lockwood: everyone else is doing. I I need to quit. I need to get I feel
Joanne Lockwood: like a cream cake because I I'm just feeling so depressed myself because
Joanne Lockwood: everybody else in the world is better than me. So you gotta try and create
Joanne Lockwood: the supportive environment with authentic people who create realistic
Joanne Lockwood: achievables, not this magical I can do it,
Joanne Lockwood: you can do it stuff that people pump out all the time. It's a problem
Alex Williams: though what you've you said there because I think society,
Alex Williams: you know, when it comes to selling and the, say, the well-being
Alex Williams: mental health, emotional health space Nowadays,
Alex Williams: because of social media, you know, the people are trying to sell you this idea
Alex Williams: of healing recovery and stuff, and I've touched
Alex Williams: on this before, but no one wants likes uncertainty
Alex Williams: really. We like a little bit, but we don't like uncertainty. So when we're buying
Alex Williams: a product, we don't want to be told this might work.
Alex Williams: We want to be told this will work. This is definitely going
Alex Williams: to heal my trauma. And I think that's what encourages,
Alex Williams: especially in that space or, you know, and in this the
Alex Williams: space I work in is people to go on and book on on t on
Alex Williams: social media and say, I can heal this. I can hear that because they know
Alex Williams: that will get people to buy the stuff even if it doesn't work. But it
Alex Williams: it's not authentic. Like you said, it's like it's it's it's that illusion.
Alex Williams: You're you're you're just kidding people. And when when you talk about
Alex Williams: that journey then, then people want to be seen to be successful. They want to
Alex Williams: be seen to be smashing their goals, because to
Alex Williams: not do that makes them feel like the person the the person who's not already
Alex Williams: not good enough, that just reinforms that. But, actually, I think what you've touched upon
Alex Williams: there and that authenticity is actually and it's something I always try to do with
Alex Williams: everyone is I try and make them realize that there's most people are bullshitting you
Alex Williams: in society. Everyone's struggling to an extent. Yes. There's periods where you have good
Alex Williams: moments. There's periods with bad people, but no one's doing as well as they are
Alex Williams: making out their doing. I don't believe it anyway. I don't believe any influence in
Alex Williams: social media or anyone out is doing as well as they're doing. So it's really
Alex Williams: important when I'm when you're viewing that to go actually, is this real or
Alex Williams: is this just a glimpse of what they're showing or actually what they're trying to
Alex Williams: make me believe? I mean, of course, I'm sure there are people out there who
Alex Williams: are really successful and doing amazing things, but in your example, it's like important. I
Alex Williams: just find, like, taking with a pinch of salt, don't compare yourself to that
Alex Williams: person who's supposedly getting top marks and
Alex Williams: smashing their weight loss journey. Just take it back and go focus on what
Alex Williams: you're doing. And, yeah, just again, take it just with a pinch of salt what
Alex Williams: you're seeing out there. It's, but it's much easier than said than done
Alex Williams: because we live in a world where we're we're meant to be showing our successes,
Alex Williams: aren't we? You know, no matter how much people are vulnerable, how
Alex Williams: vulnerable are we prepared to be in reality. Let's say, look
Alex Williams: in business in the business gurus, how honest are they when they have
Alex Williams: a bad period? They're probably sharing you, like, a a struggle with
Alex Williams: their mental health, but are they showing you that actually, god, I've lost a load
Alex Williams: of money this month for all that sort of stuff. Are people really that vulnerable?
Alex Williams: I don't know. Probably not. It's like LinkedIn experts and people who tell
Joanne Lockwood: you talk about marketing and business development and growth. Yeah. They've only got a
Joanne Lockwood: 1,000 followers. You think, really? How long have you been at this?
Joanne Lockwood: But, yeah, I always think it's it's a bit like the
Joanne Lockwood: National Lottery. Do I seriously believe I'm gonna win a
Joanne Lockwood: 157,000,000 on the EuroMillions on Friday? No.
Joanne Lockwood: But what I'm doing by buying a ticket is I'm buying
Joanne Lockwood: hope. Yes. I'm not buying reality. I'm buying a
Joanne Lockwood: dream. I'm buying hope. A lot of these people who are selling you stuff are
Joanne Lockwood: selling dreams and selling hope. And every so often, you'll
Joanne Lockwood: get the winners of with a massive check. They're on telly, and they're there's
Joanne Lockwood: champagne flowing. And you go, oh, that's what I'm dreaming of. That's my
Joanne Lockwood: hope. But I don't seriously believe I'll ever win the lottery or
Joanne Lockwood: anything more than 3 quid or whatever you win on a regular basis. If
Joanne Lockwood: I don't buy a ticket, I hope I haven't got hope. I never
Joanne Lockwood: win. So you have to be you have to be in it to have hope.
Joanne Lockwood: I think what people get buy into is is the thought of hope,
Joanne Lockwood: and that's why we gotta we gotta respect people. Because if we dash
Joanne Lockwood: their hope, we're inauthentic. What we do is we end up
Joanne Lockwood: destroying a belief and that that hope they had and that that
Joanne Lockwood: their trust will be will be harder to give next time. Yeah. Yeah.
Alex Williams: And hope's so important. I think it's it's probably you
Alex Williams: got I mean, the people who struggle the most with the clients
Alex Williams: I struggle with are kind of and they're usually because of what they've experienced growing
Alex Williams: up. They've lost that kind of all sense of hope. Almost their identity is almost
Alex Williams: wrapped around this idea that they will never be able to achieve or
Alex Williams: be anything meaningful, you know, so they
Alex Williams: literally all hope's gone. That's not necessarily their fault. It is
Alex Williams: their responsibility to challenge, with the support of
Alex Williams: people around them, but, yeah, hope is so important. And I like the
Alex Williams: idea with the lottery because that kind of made me feel like, well, yes,
Alex Williams: none not many of us are gonna win the lottery, but maybe it's not about
Alex Williams: the destination of winning the lottery, it's about if I keep buying a
Alex Williams: ticket, which could be representation of the things I do every day to look after
Alex Williams: myself, even though I might win not win the lottery, I'm
Alex Williams: likely to feel better. Maybe the maybe the lottery is a good so if I
Alex Williams: kept buying tickets and kept losing, I think, well, I've just wasted all this money,
Alex Williams: but you know what I mean? I'm kind of getting that, like, you you have
Alex Williams: to keep buying a ticket to be in it. So that's that hope of maybe
Alex Williams: getting there. And then and actually maybe the idea is
Alex Williams: actually, eventually, you get to buy so many tickets. You go, actually, I don't need
Alex Williams: to win the lottery. I'm actually okay, which is usually what happens, isn't it, with
Alex Williams: the lottery? So Yeah. But the lottery is
Joanne Lockwood: very good. Yeah. Getting in your head because every month or so, you'll win a
Joanne Lockwood: tenner. And then maybe you'll win 50 quid. So that
Joanne Lockwood: that tops your hope up. You got a lot of I've won something, like the
Joanne Lockwood: endorphins. I feel good about myself. Yeah. We let's go let's go buy a takeaway
Joanne Lockwood: with the tenner we just won. So it says some micro validations,
Joanne Lockwood: those micro rewards Yeah. Keep you in the game.
Joanne Lockwood: I think I think what you're trying to tell me is your mental health needs
Joanne Lockwood: those validations Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That are achievable
Joanne Lockwood: and frequent enough that you maintain the
Joanne Lockwood: hope. Exactly. And I think this is the problem. I always say
Alex Williams: to people that our emotions tend to follow
Alex Williams: our actions. So everyone says, I will I will do this when I feel
Alex Williams: better or do that when I feel better. And but I always kind
Alex Williams: of describe it like if you can imagine an airplane in the sky. Never seen
Alex Williams: an airplane in the sky, it's that big cloud that comes behind it. Now
Alex Williams: the airplane is like your actions, you doing the things, but your
Alex Williams: emotions are following behind, And I always say that, you know, if
Alex Williams: you keep doing the right things, if you do the right
Alex Williams: actions over time, eventually, you will start to
Alex Williams: feel better. Now people don't like to hear that because it's hard
Alex Williams: because we you know, as much as I'm not gonna I don't want people
Alex Williams: to mistake me saying, like, oh, exercise in sleep, spending
Alex Williams: time with good people, doing things you enjoy is the answer to
Alex Williams: healing your trauma. But by doing that, you will create a
Alex Williams: state a kind of a the foundations beneath you
Alex Williams: that enable you to then process some of that trauma and deal with it in
Alex Williams: a best way. It's kinda like the foundations, like the reco it's it's like
Alex Williams: a safety blanket. You know, when you it was or one of those crash mats
Alex Williams: or something you see that start stomp and land. When life inevitably smacks you
Alex Williams: in the face and knocks you over, which it will do, doing those right thing
Alex Williams: kind of protects you a bit more from hitting rock bottom.
Alex Williams: So but, you know, it's but we have to do those things to to get
Alex Williams: to that point first. It's not like, oh, I'm gonna make a magic wand and
Alex Williams: you're just gonna feel better. It's like, no. It's what you repeatedly do every
Alex Williams: day or a frequency that works for you that generally
Alex Williams: has far has a big say in how you're gonna feel and how how you
Alex Williams: feel about yourself moving forward. And that's the hardest bit because when
Alex Williams: you've really been through when you've really been through a hard time and you've had
Alex Williams: people tell you you're worthless, you've earned that you're
Alex Williams: no good, and you've been in environments that have made you feel small and lose
Alex Williams: that connection with yourself, then it can be really hard to feel like you have
Alex Williams: that power to do that sort of stuff. I mean, we whether you
Joanne Lockwood: subscribe to Maslow's hierarchy of needs or not, but we we there are a lot
Joanne Lockwood: of people who are if you're if you're worried about where your next meal's coming
Joanne Lockwood: from, you're worried about what's on a roof over your head, you're worried about the
Joanne Lockwood: short term stuff, whether you've got enough money to put in the meeting tonight,
Joanne Lockwood: you haven't got time to think about relationships and
Joanne Lockwood: good times and relaxing and going for a walk and chilling in the
Joanne Lockwood: sun. You're so focused on now.
Alex Williams: Yeah. It's like it's like we we're all designed to cope with so
Alex Williams: much stress. And when we're and, you know, when
Alex Williams: we've exposed to too much stress over a period of time, that's when mental, emotional
Alex Williams: health challenges come in. Now one thing I don't think we acknowledge as a
Alex Williams: society is much is is like what you said, like the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Alex Williams: Like, we say to, you know, people for instance, pet regards
Alex Williams: parenting. Right? We know that what's really good for parenting is people
Alex Williams: being present and meeting the needs of their children in that moment as best they
Alex Williams: can. You know? But if you're a parent
Alex Williams: who, yeah, is struggling to pay your bills, is is your
Alex Williams: insecure, accommodation, so, you know,
Alex Williams: you you it could be up you could be up for eviction for whatever reason.
Alex Williams: Maybe you've experienced some trauma, abuse, you're in a dysfunctional family, maybe
Alex Williams: there's an addiction in there. That's a whole lot of stress that is affecting your
Alex Williams: ability to be present. So literally,
Alex Williams: if they didn't have those things or you had a less of those things, you'd
Alex Williams: have more time and energy and focus, more capacity to work on, you
Alex Williams: know, yourself. But we don't really talk about that enough. I think we there's so
Alex Williams: much emphasis, and I'm a big believer in personal responsibility. But how
Alex Williams: much effort and energy do you have to focus on these things you
Alex Williams: need to change when you've got so many things out of your
Alex Williams: control or that feel out of your control that are affecting your ability to be
Alex Williams: present in that moment? It's it's, you know, it's real merely, I would
Alex Williams: say most mental, emotional health problems are social problems
Alex Williams: in the sense that, like, if our needs are being met
Alex Williams: physically and emotionally, then it makes it really hard to work on those
Alex Williams: things we need to work on. Yeah. We know the physical exercise. We also know
Joanne Lockwood: that human love, human relationships
Joanne Lockwood: also in there. And I've I've realized that some of it's
Joanne Lockwood: around touch. So I know that if I hug
Joanne Lockwood: somebody or I hold someone's hand, I feel them. I
Joanne Lockwood: can feel this mutual energy transfer Yeah. Is more than 1 plus
Joanne Lockwood: 1. It's it's 1 plus 1 equals 5. It's it's it's suddenly you feel this
Joanne Lockwood: emotional lift just by having that human contact. And the
Joanne Lockwood: power of that energy transfer is completely underrated.
Joanne Lockwood: And that's why I think when you're lonely or alone or retracting
Joanne Lockwood: into yourself, you you miss that human connection. Well,
Alex Williams: I yeah. I mean, I would say everyone I work with, but also from my
Alex Williams: own experience, I think, whether it's the touch
Alex Williams: or just that kind of validation, acknowledgement that you exist
Alex Williams: as you are as a person, regardless of who you're trying
Alex Williams: to be to fit in, I think when we don't have that, that's kind
Alex Williams: of that's what makes us struggle. If we don't feel like we can be ourselves
Alex Williams: and express how we really feel and do the things we want to in life,
Alex Williams: and if we have to feel like we could constantly at the high parts and
Alex Williams: wear masks in a sense of showing up in different ways to appease everyone
Alex Williams: else, eventually, you will get to a point where we're like, what the hell is
Alex Williams: going on here? Like, I'm so miserable. I'm struggling. I'm anxious. You know?
Alex Williams: That's what ends up happening to us. And I think it all comes back
Alex Williams: to that, yeah, that environment, that connection, that that
Alex Williams: touch, let's just say, whether it's physical or emotional, where we have people around
Alex Williams: us who just go, I see you, who you are, and I love you
Alex Williams: for who you are. I may not love some of the things you do, but
Alex Williams: I'm gonna accept that and, you know, I'm gonna I just want you to be
Alex Williams: you, and I think it's so important. And I know that for me, not necessarily
Alex Williams: what I the the significant individual traumatic events they weren't they
Alex Williams: weren't the big things, even though they're the Hollywood things when it comes to telling
Alex Williams: my story, it was actually that lack of peep the main people in my life
Alex Williams: saying, what do you need, Alex? I'm here for you. I love you
Alex Williams: for who you are. That's what caused most of my struggle as I grew up.
Joanne Lockwood: And now you mentioned do do you wanna dive into a bit of your
Joanne Lockwood: own history and mental health journey? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sure. I mean, how much
Alex Williams: start. Yeah. I mean, okay. Let's start from the beginning. I was
Alex Williams: born into a normal well, what I would consider my mum and dad
Alex Williams: were married, dad was a lawyer, solicitor, doing really well work in
Alex Williams: London, my mum was a general nurse, but my first real
Alex Williams: memory was them breaking up. My dad had an affair,
Alex Williams: My mom rightly was like, nah. I'm out. This this goes. So they
Alex Williams: separate us around 3 or 4. Now
Alex Williams: my mom would then
Alex Williams: understand me so, which often happens with anyone who's had their hearts broken in such
Alex Williams: a way kind of I got the impression that she just kind of lost a
Alex Williams: lot of confidence, self worth, self esteem, and ended up essentially with someone who
Alex Williams: was abusive. She ended up getting married to this person.
Alex Williams: My I used to basically live with my mom, see my dad every 2 weeks.
Alex Williams: But during the time living with my mom, I can remember him beating up his
Alex Williams: stepchildren, kind of making threats to harm me. My
Alex Williams: mom would say, like, no. I don't want you touching my kids, and she kind
Alex Williams: of had a handle on that, but he never did touch us. But there was
Alex Williams: that constant fear, you know, I was constant when I was there. I'd be terrified.
Alex Williams: Go to my dad's every other weekend and at the best time, he would spoil
Alex Williams: me, you know, take me for pizzas, buy me toys, all that sort of stuff.
Alex Williams: So I was, like, idolizing my dad. Life at home was
Alex Williams: terrible with my mom, and that was kind of my life
Alex Williams: then. I mean, we did kind of escape my abusive stepdad for
Alex Williams: a while and we stayed with my grandparents briefly, But
Alex Williams: he's the store cousin. I think he kinda push pressured my mom and probably said
Alex Williams: all the things that most people do when they want someone back, that they're changed
Alex Williams: and all that. But anyway, we went back. I was around 8
Alex Williams: years at the time, and one night
Alex Williams: in sleeping in my sister's room because I was terrified to sleep in my own
Alex Williams: room, this policeman burst into my room. It's
Alex Williams: about 3 in the morning, and I was like, what the hell is going on
Alex Williams: here? Took got me out, got us out of a room, took me
Alex Williams: downstairs, put me on those big, you know, the meat wagons, the big vans you
Alex Williams: see on a Saturday night in town and drove me to the local police station.
Alex Williams: I was with my sister. I was with my step siblings at the time.
Alex Williams: Didn't know what's going on. I just thought, police, they put
Alex Williams: bad people in prison. Maybe I've done something naughty.
Alex Williams: Now I was a little shit, my little kid, like, I think
Alex Williams: given in hindsight reflecting on what was happening in my
Alex Williams: home life at the time, it kinda makes sense. But, yeah, they
Alex Williams: sat me down with my sister at the time, and the
Alex Williams: policeman said, sorry, but your mum is
Alex Williams: dead. And in the room next to me, it transpired that my stepdad
Alex Williams: had killed my mum. Now that's the the big the
Alex Williams: big event that happened. It was awful. Obviously,
Alex Williams: like, straight away, I was, like, distressed. It was
Alex Williams: all over the place as you expect an 8 year old boy to be, and
Alex Williams: I can remember immediately well, not in hindsight, I can remember kind of thinking I'm
Alex Williams: a damaged. I'm damaged. What I'm gonna hope to achieve? But that wasn't really where
Alex Williams: the big damage came from because it was then when I went my dad then
Alex Williams: took on responsibility, and what happened over the
Alex Williams: those years, how I was treated in response to that even though I think
Alex Williams: he did his best to an extent, his idea of love
Alex Williams: was let's just provide money. You know, it's like kind of
Alex Williams: material stuff. Big house that grew up in this massive estate,
Alex Williams: like, had a football pitch in the garden, vineyard suits, and outsiders, it's
Alex Williams: like, oh, god. You've got everything you need. God. Yeah. Okay. Your mom's dead, but
Alex Williams: blah blah blah. But the story I was constantly fed
Alex Williams: during that time, regardless of what everyone was seeing, was like, you just need to
Alex Williams: get over your mom, you know. You know, you'd be grateful for what you do
Alex Williams: have. I remember being told like, oh, most dads would put their children in an
Alex Williams: orphanage. So over those next few years, I
Alex Williams: kind of started to continue to see myself as the problem. I believe
Alex Williams: that how I felt, my needs, they weren't important, and I changed who I
Alex Williams: was to keep my dad happy, keep other people happy. And I kind of so
Alex Williams: I never really knew who I was. And that kind of just continued throughout life.
Alex Williams: I went through high school. I didn't know what
Alex Williams: I wanna do subject wise. I kinda was always picking what other
Alex Williams: people wanted. I got out of 6th form,
Alex Williams: took some dead end jobs, but I did go to train to become a mental
Alex Williams: health nurse. Nothing inspirational about this, by the
Alex Williams: way. They paid me to do it, and I had nothing else to lose. But
Alex Williams: it turned out to be one of the greatest things I ever did because it
Alex Williams: got me hit, and I loved it. But while that
Alex Williams: was all going on, I kind of I still I just had this
Alex Williams: feeling that I just wasn't good enough. I still had to keep everyone else around
Alex Williams: me happy. And every time I failed at that, instead of thinking maybe I was
Alex Williams: in the wrong environment or with the wrong people, I continued to think I was
Alex Williams: the problem and I lowered my expectations and what I could possibly achieve or
Alex Williams: would hope to get from life. So kind of my mentality around them was like,
Alex Williams: if I just hold this steady job, get a roof over my head, and just
Alex Williams: find a partner who would, like, put up with me, then I would have finally
Alex Williams: made it. I'll be something. And life kind of continued on
Alex Williams: that trajectory for a while, but it wasn't
Alex Williams: till I was about 34. So I think I've been qualified 10
Alex Williams: years at this point in the mental health game. I've kinda I
Alex Williams: I felt like I was nearly there. I I owned a house. I was
Alex Williams: engaged. I was like, yeah. You know, I'm finally getting out. I'm
Alex Williams: finally becoming something that's important. But then
Alex Williams: the relationship ended, the mortgage went, and I was kind
Alex Williams: of faced. I just was in this situation. It was like, well, I've
Alex Williams: lost my mom. I've got dad too. I have to be a certain way to
Alex Williams: get his approval. I haven't got a relationship. I haven't got a house. I'm
Alex Williams: in my mid thirties. I feel like I just can't be bothered to
Alex Williams: do this anymore. That was when I was, like, making plans to
Alex Williams: end my own life. Now at the time, I remember in a way, it
Alex Williams: was like it made me realize that at
Alex Williams: the point, I was like, I've never really looked at my own stuff. I could
Alex Williams: spend so much of my life going through, I'm not as bad as the people
Alex Williams: I'm working with in the mental health space. You know, I'm seeing people with
Alex Williams: you know, I don't really like believe like diagnosing people
Alex Williams: and which would people have got schizophrenia, for example, bipolar, you know,
Alex Williams: personality disorders, people who were literally, they're so unwell because of what they've been
Alex Williams: through or what the symptoms they're experiencing. I was like, I'm not like
Alex Williams: you, so I must be okay. But I realized
Alex Williams: that kind of constant telling myself I must be okay
Alex Williams: when really deep down I'm not, kind of just all just spilled all over
Alex Williams: the place when I lost everything that I thought I could possibly be.
Alex Williams: But it was, well, if it to be honest, if it wasn't
Alex Williams: for my dog and feeling the need and the worry to be
Alex Williams: there for him, I think I wouldn't be here today. Literally, I was like, who's
Alex Williams: gonna look after him if I'm not here? He was probably the only thing that
Alex Williams: kept me going. But it was around that time I read Victor Frankl's
Alex Williams: man search a meaning book purely because I was in this
Alex Williams: at in in the work I was doing. I was looking at it, and I
Alex Williams: thought, oh, this looks like an interesting story. And it was his
Alex Williams: story that kind of made me and there was this line that everything can
Alex Williams: happen to you. Everything can be taken from you, sorry,
Alex Williams: except your ability to choose how you respond, your ability to choose
Alex Williams: your own way. And as I
Alex Williams: read those words, it was like, bloody hell, you
Alex Williams: know, all my life, I've given up my power to choose.
Alex Williams: Even though I have in a way been choosing, I've been just been choosing what
Alex Williams: other people expect of me or other choosing things that other people want
Alex Williams: to meet. I've never really chosen what I want. And then it was like, oh,
Alex Williams: what would my life like if I actually decided to choose what
Alex Williams: I would do was doing. Now it doesn't mean I completely erase everything that I've
Alex Williams: ever been through, but it was like, well, I've always had this burning desire,
Alex Williams: like, what if we spoke about mental health in in a way of, like,
Alex Williams: talking about the things that knock us down, you know, that that
Alex Williams: that we struggle with, like failure, heartbreak, loneliness, stress,
Alex Williams: and spoke gave people the skills to manage them so they recover
Alex Williams: from these setbacks. How would that impact people's mental health?
Alex Williams: And I thought it'd have a massive impact. So it just start me on the
Alex Williams: trajectory of talking about that sort of stuff. Now I never, I just
Alex Williams: wanna point out, you know, I just mentioned my story. I never had any attention
Alex Williams: to talk about what I've been through, but people said to me in the PSA,
Alex Williams: which we were we're both part of, it was like, what's your story, Alex? And
Alex Williams: I was like, well, I went through this, this, this, and that. And they were
Alex Williams: like, you should talk about that. And why I probably
Alex Williams: needed that because it made me actually again focus on look at that stuff and
Alex Williams: unpick it, and it really helped me recover.
Alex Williams: But, you know, it kind of led me to this point here where I am
Alex Williams: now where I'm still doing the work with people and teachers, talking about failure,
Alex Williams: heartbreak, loneliness, and just sitting with people in all their discomfort and just
Alex Williams: validating their experiences and helping them build their relationship themselves, taking
Alex Williams: responsibility, be really patient on the journey. But also talking
Alex Williams: about my own story kind of I think it was good because it made me
Alex Williams: stop being the person who was held the answers to everyone else's
Alex Williams: problems and made me realize that, actually, I'm just like all of you.
Alex Williams: Yes. We work different stories, but I'm just like you because I can also see
Alex Williams: it from their perspective. And it's really added another foundation to the work I
Alex Williams: do because even though I don't define myself as a
Alex Williams: victim, because I know I have been victimized.
Alex Williams: And actually being open about that and how that's impacted me has really helped me
Alex Williams: move forward and move the work I do in create meant the
Alex Williams: work I do made it much, much more powerful for those I work with. I'm
Joanne Lockwood: a bit stunned to silence because I I I had never
Joanne Lockwood: heard your story before. So when you drop that bombshell about
Joanne Lockwood: your mum was killed by your by your stepdad, that came as a
Joanne Lockwood: complete surprise to me. So anyone who's listening, heard that for the first time in
Joanne Lockwood: the way you did. So, yeah, it's extremely
Joanne Lockwood: traumatic to listen to, and I can I I can't
Joanne Lockwood: imagine? All all I could do is is is guess that,
Joanne Lockwood: at that time of your life, your whole world became disorientated. It's
Joanne Lockwood: like being being in a three-dimensional gimbal where you just
Joanne Lockwood: you got no up, no down, no left, no right, no stability, got
Joanne Lockwood: no hook to hold on to at that point, have you? The person that was
Joanne Lockwood: always there for you, your mom, the person whether you loved or hated or
Joanne Lockwood: what you're going through, there was always that stability in your life to
Joanne Lockwood: suddenly find that you had lack of stability. Your home
Joanne Lockwood: environment had now crumbled. Your your father was a
Joanne Lockwood: party dad looking after you and taking giving you giving
Joanne Lockwood: you McDonald's and taking you on on fast adrenaline rides and and being a being
Joanne Lockwood: a party dad. So you lost that structure in your life
Joanne Lockwood: all of a sudden, didn't you? Yeah. And I think it's
Alex Williams: at the time, I think we don't, you know, what we go through when
Alex Williams: when in those first probably 6, 7, 8, 9 years,
Alex Williams: we're all all of life, but especially those first those early years, you know,
Alex Williams: We're not able, young people, to recognize our
Alex Williams: brains just aren't evolved to recognize that, oh, that awful thing that happened
Alex Williams: is just an awful thing that happened that I've now got to navigate. It's usually
Alex Williams: we believe it. It's because of us or that, therefore, there's some
Alex Williams: problem with us because these things happen. And, obviously,
Alex Williams: it was a complete shock. I have to admit that partly the time was like,
Alex Williams: god, you know, I get to live with my dad now. And like I
Alex Williams: said, the part of your dad, I love the way you explain it because I've
Alex Williams: never heard it said like that. But, like, it made me say, oh, is this
Alex Williams: gonna be exciting? Even though I was devastated, it's like, what's this gonna be like?
Alex Williams: But, yeah, I'm I'm the thing was it's just my world crumbled. I was like,
Alex Williams: my mom isn't there, that stability. All the things I probably took for granted because
Alex Williams: you don't appreciate them when you're that age d. You don't appreciate that you your
Alex Williams: mom's always there. She puts dinner on the table. She cleans your clothes. She tidies
Alex Williams: your room. She picks you up from school. You just take that for granted. You
Alex Williams: just want the the high adrenaline sort of stuff, but
Alex Williams: losing that was massive. But, again, it was just
Alex Williams: like, I know no one who has lost their mom in
Alex Williams: such circumstances. Def and I've my immediate thing was there must be something
Alex Williams: wrong with me now. What can I possibly hope to
Alex Williams: achieve having lost a mum? I am
Alex Williams: you know, what was on the TV at the time? And then Biker Grove or
Alex Williams: something like that. Grange chill and, like, look at those kids, you know, who've been
Alex Williams: for it and figured, that's me now. I'm destined to
Alex Williams: be nothing. It was like all it was always
Alex Williams: like what I obviously, most of my ambition, hopes, dreams,
Alex Williams: aspirations are gone because I merely thought I was there's something wrong
Alex Williams: with me now, And I that's why I'm so keen with the work
Alex Williams: I do. It's like when things go wrong, separating who they
Alex Williams: are from the actual problem. You know, the problem's the problem, you're not the problem,
Alex Williams: even though, yes, okay, we may do things that contribute to our problems. It's really
Alex Williams: important you separate who you are as a person from what you're experiencing. Because as
Alex Williams: soon as you make about what you're experiencing about you, then
Alex Williams: it's like it's almost like not game over, but it's like that's gonna
Alex Williams: that's gonna hit you hit you harder than you can
Alex Williams: ever imagine. You know, you're giving yourself a hard time for having a hard
Alex Williams: time, which doesn't help anyone. It's like you're just having a hard time, but as
Alex Williams: soon as you make it about you, it's like, oh my god. I'm the problem
Alex Williams: here. And that's exactly what happened to me. But I wasn't aware of it at
Alex Williams: the time because I paid. But in hindsight, that was the kind
Alex Williams: of messaging I was kind of telling myself, and because I was also being
Alex Williams: told in that recovery process that I just need to get on with it, that
Alex Williams: I need to be grateful, it was almost like, well, what I feel and what
Alex Williams: I'm experiencing, all that pain is just it's not important then. Again,
Alex Williams: I'm the problem here. How am I feeling to the problem? I need to shut
Alex Williams: them down and hide and be who these people around me need me to be
Alex Williams: to keep me happy. But, yeah, losing my mum, it was I mean, I'm not
Alex Williams: saying my mum would have then become the best mum ever. Who knows? I sometimes
Alex Williams: remind myself of that, but she was a good person. And I think losing her
Alex Williams: just it just destroyed me. But I never really got to explore it until
Joanne Lockwood: Mommy's mom. Yeah. Mommy's mom is she doesn't
Joanne Lockwood: have to be the best person in the world. She just has to be your
Joanne Lockwood: mom. It's not there's no rules. There's no right way of being mom, is there?
Joanne Lockwood: And I as you're talking, I'm thinking about my my
Joanne Lockwood: mother-in-law. She passed away 2 2 years ago.
Joanne Lockwood: And Marie, my wife, often says the thing she misses most
Joanne Lockwood: is not being able to just phone her up and tell her what she's doing.
Joanne Lockwood: Just that this is what happened today type of stuff. And
Joanne Lockwood: it's that chitchat and the the fact
Joanne Lockwood: you'll never have that conversation is the the challenge.
Alex Williams: Yeah. And I I feel it more now probably than I ever
Alex Williams: did because having now I've got a 10 month old daughter, I can never
Alex Williams: go, would you like to go spend time with your, you know,
Alex Williams: would you like to speak to your your and that really that cuts me, you
Alex Williams: know. It's because she will never be she wasn't there for the birth.
Alex Williams: She wasn't there for so many things and also not have because I don't
Alex Williams: have anything to do with my dad now. It's incredibly even though I'm in a
Alex Williams: good spot and I've kind of come to terms that it's still
Alex Williams: god, you know, you've got no one. Not no one, but like
Alex Williams: the people 2 people who are supposed to be there.
Alex Williams: It just yeah. It's hard. It's hard because I would nothing
Alex Williams: nothing more, and this is probably the problem with Hollywood films and
Alex Williams: growing up and watching those lovely Christmas times where you see everyone get
Alex Williams: together and have a best time. It kind of when that stuff comes, it's
Alex Williams: always a memory of what I don't have and what my daughter won't
Alex Williams: necessarily have. But equally that acts as a motivator to
Alex Williams: make sure, you know, the love I give for the people who are still in
Alex Williams: my life and important to me, make sure I never take that for granted. Like,
Alex Williams: you know, I literally I I would do anything to make sure my daughter
Alex Williams: never feels what I felt, Hopefully, she will
Alex Williams: have experience of rejection. Don't get me wrong, but like not from no in
Alex Williams: those means, you know, like hopefully, you know, I can't control everything. I
Alex Williams: could get hit by a bus tomorrow, but it really that could be essentially becomes
Alex Williams: my purpose really, you know. It's like, this is my purpose. Like, how can I
Alex Williams: be the best dad for my daughter? That's it. Now if
Alex Williams: you ask me, like, every decision I make now is around that because of what
Alex Williams: I went through. Yeah. And I yeah. My daughter's
Joanne Lockwood: in in her thirties now, and I have a completely different
Joanne Lockwood: relationship with her than when she was young. And
Joanne Lockwood: it's it's a very good adult relationship, and it's
Joanne Lockwood: just known we're there. Someone to have a chat with
Joanne Lockwood: and run things by. She's dinged to her car the other week and said, should
Joanne Lockwood: I tell the police? Shouldn't I tell the police? It's kind of like a sounding
Joanne Lockwood: board. I go, well, I can't I haven't got the right answer for you, but
Joanne Lockwood: if you tell the police, no one will ever come knocking on your door saying
Joanne Lockwood: you didn't. Well, how come
Joanne Lockwood: you're looking for us? Just knowing you got someone there, she knows that she's got
Joanne Lockwood: me there, and and my wife's is here, and
Joanne Lockwood: No matter what happens, there's there's people in her
Joanne Lockwood: life that she knows ultimately have always got her back. And my
Joanne Lockwood: mum's the same. I know my mum no matter how much, and not that
Joanne Lockwood: I rely on her at all, but I want her to be proud of me
Joanne Lockwood: still. I'm 60 years old nearly, and I still want my mum to be proud
Joanne Lockwood: of me. So it's it's important, isn't it, to have someone that you as
Joanne Lockwood: your barometer in life maybe. And I love the way you said that,
Alex Williams: like, just to be there because I think that's what we want, isn't it? Like,
Alex Williams: I think we all want someone in our lives who can just be there
Alex Williams: for us when we're struggling, when we're happy, like, when we celebrate
Alex Williams: our achievements or maybe just to redirect us if we're going
Alex Williams: off the path a little bit. And in a way, that's probably my job. Like,
Alex Williams: I I as I said to you, I most people I
Alex Williams: see have come from families and the level of
Alex Williams: dysfunction that I kind of described and touched upon in my own experience.
Alex Williams: And they often say to me, I've got no one I can talk to about
Alex Williams: this, but having someone like you where I can just offload all this and you're
Alex Williams: gonna go hear that shit and not tell me I just need to get over
Alex Williams: it. And you help make sense in the turn where I can actually help them
Alex Williams: make sense of it and help them look after themselves is so so important. And
Alex Williams: that's what I wanna be for my daughter, you know. You know, and and that
Alex Williams: fits so, like, literally, it's weird because this year having
Alex Williams: a daughter, and I'm not saying that everyone should go and have kids because there's
Alex Williams: lots of people who shouldn't have kids as my job often tells me.
Alex Williams: But, like, I realized from a a basic and emotional
Alex Williams: needs standpoint that fulfills so many of my needs. You know, the,
Alex Williams: you know, the the I get the the community, the connection, the
Alex Williams: attention, the it gives me purpose. It gives me a sense of achievement, you
Alex Williams: know. You've like, it's crazy how, like, get up and I'm the one who
Alex Williams: gets someone that will go in the morning. And, like, when I go into the
Alex Williams: room and get her up and she just she always smiles. I mean, she's at
Alex Williams: that age where she is, and I'm sure when she's a teenager, it's gonna be
Alex Williams: the opposite. She'll get out of my room, dad. But, you know, she's like smiling,
Alex Williams: you know, that's like, oh my god. I'm just achieved something amazing. You know? And
Alex Williams: it's just that little thing, and I and I think it's a society, because
Alex Williams: we've moved towards this kind of very hyper individualistic
Alex Williams: approach where we're almost told we don't need anyone else. How often do you see
Alex Williams: that message? You don't need anyone else. You don't need anyone's approval. And I guess,
Alex Williams: to an extent, some of that messaging is true, but we do need people. We
Alex Williams: need community. We need thriving community. Community is probably the most important
Alex Williams: thing. Like, I could tell you now those who do best in life are those
Alex Williams: who have supportive environments around them, and we don't really
Alex Williams: say that, do we? We've, like, famous people who've overcome stuff. We always hear
Alex Williams: about the their mindset. You're like, no. Yes. That's important,
Alex Williams: but it's like who was around you to help you instill that mindset? Those
Alex Williams: moments where you were like, excuse my name, fuck this. I can't do this
Alex Williams: anymore. Who was there who said come on, you can still do it? And we
Alex Williams: don't talk about that. And that's kind of what I see my role is like,
Alex Williams: because I always again, coming back to this mental, emotional health stuff
Alex Williams: and getting back up, it's like, we all no one none we
Alex Williams: never get as well as we as quickly as we like.
Alex Williams: So it's important you have people around you to give you that nudge in the
Alex Williams: right direction, support you, to keep you going, because it is like
Alex Williams: what I'm doing is, like, kind of describing, like, the waves here with my hand
Alex Williams: now. Yeah. It's like, that's the journey. Essentially. Don't
Alex Williams: expect to, like, come see me and then tomorrow you'll feel better. It's like you
Alex Williams: I know there's a dip coming, but I'm here to support you through that dip
Alex Williams: to keep you so you can carry on moving forward. And I think that's
Alex Williams: how I see my role in my door. That's how I see my role with
Alex Williams: all the people I work with and generally anyone who needs my support.
Alex Williams: So yeah. Yeah. I mean, we know that
Joanne Lockwood: behind every high achiever, successful person, we
Joanne Lockwood: know Paralympians, we know Olympians, medalists between
Joanne Lockwood: us. And every single one of those always credit their team,
Joanne Lockwood: the support of their family, people in their life. And even if, you know, even
Joanne Lockwood: if you don't have a a relationship
Joanne Lockwood: with people, you know, maybe you're rich and you pay people to look after you,
Joanne Lockwood: You don't do things alone. We all we all do the the 10%
Joanne Lockwood: of our life that we're good at, but we rely on the other 90% being
Joanne Lockwood: supported by people, and no matter how much we think we're capable
Joanne Lockwood: of everything. I don't service my car. I don't I
Joanne Lockwood: don't clean my floors. I have a cleaner. I'm not good at that.
Joanne Lockwood: But these people are in my life to support me, so I don't
Joanne Lockwood: feel alone. I have to do everything. I think when you you're talking here
Joanne Lockwood: about where mental health suffers is when you become truly
Joanne Lockwood: alone or lonely, you've got nobody to offload
Joanne Lockwood: any of your tasks or relationships or support
Joanne Lockwood: to. And even people who are who are rough sleeping,
Joanne Lockwood: they have a community within their rough sleeping.
Joanne Lockwood: Whether it's the when they get food, the big issue is sailing, or
Joanne Lockwood: their their complex under the bridge, they've got a community
Joanne Lockwood: there. And they're not homeless. Their
Joanne Lockwood: home is is there. They have a home. It's just that their
Joanne Lockwood: home isn't traditional. And so they but they have people around them that got their
Joanne Lockwood: back as well. Yeah. And I I I have to admit, I mean, community is
Alex Williams: massive, and I I can't. What often happens and it happened to me is that
Alex Williams: because of our experiences, we often believe that we have to do it alone.
Alex Williams: I you know, sometimes that can trick us to thinking people can't be
Alex Williams: trusted. People are gonna leave us. No matter how
Alex Williams: nice they are now, they're probably gonna run away. Like, losing
Alex Williams: my mom suddenly and having my dad, like, he was I he was very conditional
Alex Williams: on how I had to be around him to get his love. That everything that
Alex Williams: happened up until that, and even now I would say, I meant, like, I have
Alex Williams: this kind of I'm hugely independent. I don't like letting
Alex Williams: people in close. And, actually, when you mentioned about touch, yes, I like a little
Alex Williams: bit of touch. But my daughter is fine. I'm coloring it, but, actually, sometimes it
Alex Williams: kinda pushes me away because I'm like, my body is
Alex Williams: kind of like, this feels weird. What these people actually want to cut cuddle me
Alex Williams: or be close to me. So I have to be really mindful of that because
Alex Williams: I know that community helps me, but equally, there's this part of me that always
Alex Williams: wants to just do all your own acts. Just go on your own, mate. You
Alex Williams: better. No one's gonna let you down and upset you. And I think I see
Alex Williams: when you talk about homeless people or anyone struggling, usually because
Alex Williams: they've been pushed away by so many people, if they
Alex Williams: struggle to reach out or their their
Alex Williams: threshold for pulling away from people is so low because they
Alex Williams: anticipate rejection that they kind of almost reject themselves. But
Alex Williams: saying, actually, if I don't if I stop seeing you and stop engaging in this
Alex Williams: support, I know that eventually you won't you I you won't reject me. So
Alex Williams: but we often don't see that. And I know that's what I've often do with
Alex Williams: myself now and then, but I have to be really mindful of that now,
Alex Williams: that when I'm maybe going forward to do
Alex Williams: something or pushing myself to do something that actually I could do in my life,
Alex Williams: I'm like, that little voice says, oh, do you really need to do that? Or
Alex Williams: maybe you shouldn't, or I can even create a story in my mind that will
Alex Williams: say, oh, well, actually, that person who's saying that you can do that is actually
Alex Williams: bullshitting you. Right? I can easily create stories, but I think it's
Alex Williams: like I have to be reading my well, you know what? Even if they are
Alex Williams: bullshitting me or even if that person does reject me,
Alex Williams: I can handle it, and I still got good people in my life. And that's
Alex Williams: one thing that I'm really working on right now, and it's actually helping, actually having
Alex Williams: that achieved. It's not easy, though. You kind of have to really deal delve into
Alex Williams: it, but, yeah, it's some something that often goes the wrong
Alex Williams: way when we've been pushed away by others. We kind of become over reliant on
Alex Williams: ourselves, which isn't healthy either. Yeah. Protection is we're putting our shields up, aren't
Joanne Lockwood: we? We're sort of defending ourselves against future hurt. If I don't let you
Joanne Lockwood: in, I won't lose anything when you walk away. I'm I'm I can
Joanne Lockwood: trust myself but nobody else. Well, we're wired we're wired for 2 things
Alex Williams: essentially, protection and connection. And we get our protection from
Alex Williams: our connections, but if our connections don't like us for who we
Alex Williams: are, then we change to seek the protection from those
Alex Williams: connections, which makes us lose touch of ourselves. And
Alex Williams: then we reject ourselves and then we end up in the wrong relationships with people
Alex Williams: and settle for toxic people on good in our lives. And,
Alex Williams: but then that just makes us miserable. And then we just think, should I go
Alex Williams: on my own? When actually, we just need to trust ourselves,
Alex Williams: deal with the discomfort of that, which can be really hard, and find the right
Alex Williams: people. Again, that's why community is so important. It's there is a community out there
Alex Williams: for everyone, I believe. It's just finding that right community and
Alex Williams: having the courage to go out there and do it. But much easier said than
Alex Williams: done, like everything I tend to say. Yeah. Also
Joanne Lockwood: ensuring that the community that you join is a
Joanne Lockwood: positive outcome. Because if not careful, because we're damaged
Joanne Lockwood: in our own self, we look for people who are also damaged, which can end
Joanne Lockwood: up being self destructive as well if we're not careful. That's a really good point
Alex Williams: you raised there. Because, yes, you can. It's like we
Alex Williams: this is a question I've been asking a few people recently. It's like, you know,
Alex Williams: is the community that you feel validated and part of right now
Alex Williams: keep actually helping you to grow or is it just keeping you stuck where you
Alex Williams: are? Because and I think we probably find that on social media
Alex Williams: now. Like, you know, we know we talked about this early, love me, like, about
Alex Williams: outrage and how I think outrage supports substitution
Alex Williams: for personal growth, but because it makes us feel powerful, it makes us feel like
Alex Williams: we're actually doing anything. And, of course, we need outreach. Right? We need it. We
Alex Williams: need to stand up and go, that's not acceptable. We need to change that. But
Alex Williams: most people just say that's not acceptable, but not actually changing anything.
Alex Williams: And I think, you know, sometimes the groups we find ourselves in just end up
Alex Williams: keeping ourselves stuck, but that's a problem with probably the
Alex Williams: well-being space and social media I find is that a lot of content is
Alex Williams: just like, this is a trauma symptom or this this is this is a sign
Alex Williams: you have this, this, or that. And all the content is just the same and
Alex Williams: it just kinda validates, oh, yeah. This is why I'm struggling. But no one's like,
Alex Williams: this is what you can do to overcome that struggle. And I think that's probably
Alex Williams: what's lacking. But that's that's difficult because
Alex Williams: if we can have people make us feel safe where we are, we'll stay where
Alex Williams: we are. That's what humans like. We don't like to push
Alex Williams: ourselves if we can avoid it. And, you know, the social media you're talking about
Joanne Lockwood: there, it's wants us to be angry. Yeah. That's something. It's almost
Joanne Lockwood: like creating that anger or conflict emotion in us. Yeah. And we
Joanne Lockwood: thrive off that. People feed off that pain, don't they? They suck the
Joanne Lockwood: pain out of you. And people wanna know that you're in more pain than
Joanne Lockwood: they are, and it becomes that self fulfilling. That's some
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. We become used to pain and being angry with stuff. It's learned
Alex Williams: helplessness, isn't it really? And that that's the thing we kinda get stuck where
Alex Williams: we're like, I feel I already feel like I can't do anything with my life
Alex Williams: and, well, this person also doesn't feel like they could do anything in life. So
Alex Williams: let's just hang out and talk about how we can't do anything with our life.
Alex Williams: You know? It's, it's Blame somebody else. It's not me. It's everybody
Joanne Lockwood: else. Yes. Yes. Yes. And even though it properly is other people,
Alex Williams: like most of the time, you're still responsible for dealing with the mess that's left
Alex Williams: with if in your life. And that's why I think people often
Alex Williams: gets missed because I think I talk a lot about personal responsibility, but
Alex Williams: I think the message in around personal responsibility is a bit too much with people.
Alex Williams: You know, we tell people you're responsible for your life and I think you you
Alex Williams: tell us something that, you know, you know, it's just overwhelming, isn't it? It's like
Alex Williams: massive. I'm responsible for life because it's not true. You need people around you, but
Alex Williams: I try and make it well. Okay. What are you what can you take responsibility
Alex Williams: for now, and what can you do to help gain a bit more control of
Alex Williams: your life? And that's where it comes to little daily things. Like you say, it
Alex Williams: might be focusing on sleep, going for walks, hanging out with
Alex Williams: good people, maybe, handing the notes in for a
Alex Williams: job and applying for another job, you know, taking the course, applying for that course,
Alex Williams: or could just be jumping in the shower or deciding to eat something healthy
Alex Williams: for breakfast, you know. It's little things like that really we're responsible for and then
Alex Williams: showing up consistently every moment with that approach
Alex Williams: really. We're scared to change, aren't we? I I think the thing that holds us
Joanne Lockwood: back normally is is the fear of difference or the fear of something new. And
Joanne Lockwood: we envisage this big cliff edge, but often it's just a little step, isn't it?
Joanne Lockwood: We're not we're not diving off anywhere. We're just incremental changes.
Alex Williams: Yeah. The mind is funny. Like, as I say, it likes comfort. It likes to
Alex Williams: keep us in where we are, and we can all of us,
Alex Williams: right now, whoever's listening to you, you're telling yourself the story you're telling yourself about
Alex Williams: your life is the one that makes you feel most comfortable about where you are,
Alex Williams: usually. Unless someone's thrown a grenade under it and made you go, oh, actually, I
Alex Williams: need to do something about it. It's like health scare or relationship breakup or something
Alex Williams: like that. So, yeah, we are scared of change. And I was gonna
Alex Williams: say something important around that, but I completely forgot, but that's okay.
Joanne Lockwood: I don't know. I hear what you're saying there. It's it's when we're when we're
Joanne Lockwood: in these relationships or this momentum or social pressure to
Joanne Lockwood: carry on doing what we're doing, even though we have got agency, we have got
Joanne Lockwood: choice, we don't exercise it because staying in our
Joanne Lockwood: lane, in our zone, is is easier than the unknown
Joanne Lockwood: outside. And it's only when someone takes away our agency or choice
Joanne Lockwood: in such an extent where we have to change that
Joanne Lockwood: suddenly we realize and we look back at where we were, we
Joanne Lockwood: think, wow, how can I ever survive in that environment? What was I
Joanne Lockwood: thinking? Because once you put the blinkers off, you become very sentient
Joanne Lockwood: and aware of it, don't you? Yeah. Well, it's I think I can't remember who
Alex Williams: said it. It was like, until the fear of staying the same becomes
Alex Williams: greater than the fear of change, we won't change. And that's it. It's almost like
Alex Williams: our life has to we have to get so uncomfortable to make changes
Alex Williams: that we until we do, we probably won't. And I know that's what
Alex Williams: happened with me when I was when I was experiencing suicidal ideation. I wanted to
Alex Williams: end my life. I was like, my life got so uncomfortable, and I needed that
Alex Williams: messaging from Victor Frankl to make me realize, god,
Alex Williams: Alex, You actually need to go there and explore this stuff. You need to look
Alex Williams: at what's happened to you rather than just acting like you're fine. You need
Alex Williams: to actually look at this stuff. And I think as humans, we have
Alex Williams: a tendency with our minds to think the work think things are gonna be a
Alex Williams: lot worse than they actually are whilst also underestimating our ability to
Alex Williams: handle it. You know? So, like, when we actually go and do the
Alex Williams: thing that we're putting off doing because we're scared of, it doesn't
Alex Williams: usually ends up being not as bad as before, and we usually end up being
Alex Williams: fine. But, you know, that state of anxiety that
Alex Williams: those those feelings we get when we're thinking about making changes, and they they're very
Alex Williams: real and very valid. And if you've been rejected most of your life, then, of
Alex Williams: course, it's awful. And And as and as well as that, it's if you feel
Alex Williams: like you don't have the agency because of you don't have that control in your
Alex Williams: life because of what you've experienced, you got that makes it really hard. But
Alex Williams: when people have the right people around them to nudge them in the right
Alex Williams: direction and the individual themselves has the courage. Okay. I'm gonna give
Alex Williams: take that step knowing that if it goes tits up, I can come back and
Alex Williams: speak to you, Alex, or someone like that. Then when you can have that around
Alex Williams: you, then you tend to eventually create a better life. Now it takes longer than
Alex Williams: we always anticipate. I always see people, and they're always the
Alex Williams: people I'm a bit worried about like you and I, maybe I'm the wrong person
Alex Williams: for this person. They're not really getting where I think they should be right now.
Alex Williams: But, eventually, when they keep doing the right things, they get there. Okay. You know
Alex Williams: what, Alex? You were so right. I just showed I just, you know, doing these
Alex Williams: things that you've said and was whilst aligning with what I want in life has
Alex Williams: really helped me to get to this place I need to get to. But you
Alex Williams: have to be you have to, like, have that courage and just kind of take
Alex Williams: a chance in yourself and just go for it. Don't do anything too risky, like,
Alex Williams: sometimes you hear people say, well, just sack off your job. You know, go start
Alex Williams: your own business. I'm like, no one who's ever telling you
Alex Williams: that's what they did actually did that. They probably had a partner behind them
Alex Williams: who had some money in savings. They probably had some savings. They probably got support
Alex Williams: of family, whatever. No one or very few people actually did that. Take a little
Alex Williams: pinch of salt. You have to make sure you've got your needs met because
Alex Williams: if you you'll burn out before you get anywhere, if you take too much of
Alex Williams: a leap and you haven't got your needs met. But if
Alex Williams: you've got some stability, probably not just
Alex Williams: enough, probably not as much as you like, then, yes, take some chances to go
Alex Williams: for it. So and, usually, that's the ability to just
Alex Williams: be having one. Yeah. We've gone pretty
Joanne Lockwood: deep. We're gonna have some people listening to this show who are maybe
Joanne Lockwood: experiencing some of the traumas or mental health
Joanne Lockwood: needs that you've mentioned. Have you got sort of 2 or 3 top tips that
Joanne Lockwood: people who are listening right now could grab hold of
Joanne Lockwood: and do? Okay. So the first I always say this, like,
Alex Williams: the relationship you have yourself is the foundations for
Alex Williams: any recovery. Now you can't just
Alex Williams: flip your relationship with yourself overnight. You're not gonna look yourself in the mirror every
Alex Williams: day, say nice things to yourself like some people say, and you're gonna feel better
Alex Williams: about yourself. But one thing you can start doing is and I've touched
Alex Williams: upon this earlier. Instead of see the problem making yourself the problem
Alex Williams: when things are going wrong, view the problem you're experiencing as the problem.
Alex Williams: So if you're struggling with a relationship, rather than thinking that who you are is
Alex Williams: problematic, say, well, issues these are the issues I'm having my relationship.
Alex Williams: Rather than if you're struggling with your mental health, maybe you got depression, anxiety, or
Alex Williams: whatever, rather than thinking I'm the problem here, think, oh, I'm
Alex Williams: experiencing depression. I'm experiencing anxiety. It may separate who you are from
Alex Williams: what's experiencing what you're experiencing. Another one is just
Alex Williams: take personal responsibility for what you can. Get some help,
Alex Williams: reach out to the right people, find a community for you, and just
Alex Williams: take it day by day. I know it sounds really basic, but I honestly
Alex Williams: think habit trackers are one of the best things for people's mental health.
Alex Williams: Like, setting a goal every night before you go to bed is something you're gonna
Alex Williams: do for yourself the next day. Do it and
Alex Williams: tick it off. Doesn't sound like a lot, but when you keep doing that over
Alex Williams: a period of time, you start building your self esteem and showing yourself that actually
Alex Williams: you look after yourself. And another one is just be patient.
Alex Williams: Like, as I said already, like, no one gets as
Alex Williams: well as quickly as they like. This is why we're all suckers for
Alex Williams: that person who comes on social media and says, I can heal your trauma like
Alex Williams: this if you do this. And you're like, oh, yes. I've been struggling. I've been
Alex Williams: in therapy for a year or so, and this doesn't work for me. And I'm
Alex Williams: like, I'm gonna do this. Only to find that that probably doesn't work. But instead
Alex Williams: of realizing the thing you're trying wasn't ever gonna work, you, again, beat
Alex Williams: yourself up. But if you can, like, be patient and just do the right things,
Alex Williams: and, yes, recognize it could be ups and downs, that will
Alex Williams: help you along the way. But it's it's a
Alex Williams: journey. Like, let's just say, like, it's just be the most important thing is just
Alex Williams: be gentle with yourself. Again, the most important bit of advice
Alex Williams: is you're not the problem, the problem's the problem. If you can start
Alex Williams: remembering that, even if, yes, you're doing a million and one things that are contributing
Alex Williams: to the problem, at least by viewing your life like that, you'll be able to
Alex Williams: learn, grow, and recover from those setbacks and use those setbacks to hopefully,
Alex Williams: eventually, create better circumstances for you moving forward. Be
Joanne Lockwood: gentle with yourself, and you are not the problem. The problem is the
Joanne Lockwood: problem. I think that's a great place to leave it. Alex, how can people
Joanne Lockwood: get a hold of you? As I said, we've went deep we've gone pretty deep
Joanne Lockwood: here. And if people wanna get a hold of you to talk about this, find
Joanne Lockwood: out more about you, how do they get a hold of you? Yeah. You can
Alex Williams: find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, and TikTok. I'm mostly
Alex Williams: active on LinkedIn, to be honest, purely because having a little kid, I haven't got
Alex Williams: time I haven't had time to make videos, so my content on the other
Alex Williams: platforms hasn't been good, but it's, the Alex J Williams
Alex Williams: is my handle on all those platforms. But you can also drop me an email
Alex Williams: at alex@alexjwilliams.co.uk if you wanna have a
Alex Williams: chat. I'm always open to having discussions with people. I don't
Alex Williams: have anything to sell. I'm just here to help people. Yeah. If anyone wants
Alex Williams: to reach out, just give give me a shout. Alex,
Alex Williams: thank you. You're welcome.
Joanne Lockwood: As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to
Joanne Lockwood: express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for
Joanne Lockwood: lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion.
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