WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:11.219 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 2 00:00:11.360 --> 00:00:15.125 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 3 00:00:15.265 --> 00:00:18.705 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 4 00:00:18.705 --> 00:00:22.405 inclusion, belonging, and societal transformation. 5 00:00:23.105 --> 00:00:26.625 Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world where 6 00:00:26.625 --> 00:00:30.050 everyone not only belongs but thrives? You're 7 00:00:30.050 --> 00:00:33.649 not alone. Join me as we uncover the 8 00:00:33.649 --> 00:00:37.250 unseen, challenge the status quo, and share 9 00:00:37.250 --> 00:00:41.090 stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive 10 00:00:41.090 --> 00:00:44.905 in. Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down 11 00:00:44.905 --> 00:00:48.665 after a long day, let's connect, reflect, and 12 00:00:48.665 --> 00:00:52.425 inspire action together. Don't forget, you 13 00:00:52.425 --> 00:00:55.385 can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to 14 00:00:55.385 --> 00:00:57.140 jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 15 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:02.739 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 16 00:01:03.440 --> 00:01:07.200 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 17 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:10.115 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion 18 00:01:13.295 --> 00:01:17.075 Bites. Today is episode 141 19 00:01:18.655 --> 00:01:22.435 with the title, no expected outcome. 20 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:26.980 And I have the absolute honor and privilege to welcome Steff 21 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:30.960 VanHaverbeker. And that's not easy to say a flourished name 22 00:01:30.960 --> 00:01:34.800 as an English person. Steff is the cofounder of 23 00:01:34.800 --> 00:01:38.425 the House of Coaching. She empowers professionals with 24 00:01:38.425 --> 00:01:41.965 cognitive agility and inclusion driven strategies 25 00:01:42.585 --> 00:01:46.265 to thrive in a rapidly changing world. And when I asked 26 00:01:46.265 --> 00:01:50.025 Steff to describe her superbash, she said that it is her empathy 27 00:01:50.025 --> 00:01:53.160 and self confidence enabling her to deeply 28 00:01:53.380 --> 00:01:57.160 understand unique challenges and empower individuals 29 00:01:57.300 --> 00:02:01.060 to uncover their strengths. Hello, Steff. Welcome 30 00:02:01.060 --> 00:02:04.760 to the show. Hey, Jo. It's great to be here. 31 00:02:05.564 --> 00:02:08.925 Absolutely fabulous. And how did I do on your name? Did I did I get 32 00:02:08.925 --> 00:02:12.765 it close? It sounded perfect. Thank 33 00:02:12.765 --> 00:02:16.465 you. And I know it's hard. It is. 34 00:02:16.845 --> 00:02:20.610 It's, the Dutch language is a law unto itself, 35 00:02:20.610 --> 00:02:24.450 isn't it? With lots of, guttural Yeah. Sort of throat noises, isn't it? 36 00:02:24.450 --> 00:02:28.209 It's a It comes from deep within. Deep 37 00:02:28.209 --> 00:02:31.965 within. Yeah. I've had many Dutch friends, and I've been to that part 38 00:02:31.965 --> 00:02:35.805 of the world many times. And, yeah, we sit in bars and laugh 39 00:02:35.805 --> 00:02:39.405 about pronunciations and things. And Yeah. I 40 00:02:39.405 --> 00:02:43.165 know. So you you Steff. You were doing great. Yes. Thank you. Thank 41 00:02:43.165 --> 00:02:46.510 you. So Steff, tell me more. No expected 42 00:02:46.570 --> 00:02:49.610 outcomes. What's all the heard about? Yeah. Well, it's, 43 00:02:50.410 --> 00:02:54.170 it's something that I I realized a few months ago. 44 00:02:54.170 --> 00:02:57.550 Beginning of this year, we're we're now December of 45 00:02:58.015 --> 00:03:01.695 2024. And, and past year, so in 46 00:03:01.695 --> 00:03:05.215 2023, post COVID, my main business, my main 47 00:03:05.215 --> 00:03:09.055 activity suffered from the COVID pandemic and went 48 00:03:09.055 --> 00:03:12.820 bankrupt. So that meant that 49 00:03:12.820 --> 00:03:16.040 I had to reinvent myself, reinvent 50 00:03:16.820 --> 00:03:20.340 my business. In Dutch we have this beautiful word it's called 51 00:03:20.340 --> 00:03:24.100 Dorstaat. So it's starting true. That's not starting here, 52 00:03:24.100 --> 00:03:27.925 but you're making a true push something through through 53 00:03:27.925 --> 00:03:31.685 through the troubles, through and at the same time, I was 54 00:03:31.685 --> 00:03:35.364 going through my gender transition as well. So this 55 00:03:35.364 --> 00:03:39.125 meant there was a whole lot of stuff going on at the 56 00:03:39.125 --> 00:03:42.060 same time. And and, 57 00:03:43.420 --> 00:03:47.100 and at one Friday morning, beginning this year, I had this 58 00:03:47.100 --> 00:03:50.940 long, long, long, long list of things that I needed to do. And 59 00:03:50.940 --> 00:03:54.240 I sat in front of my computer, like I'm sitting here now, 60 00:03:55.025 --> 00:03:58.705 and watching its screen and just a whole 61 00:03:58.705 --> 00:04:01.925 list of emails and all you know you know, 62 00:04:02.305 --> 00:04:05.905 that feeling. Too much to, you know 63 00:04:06.065 --> 00:04:09.765 and and you you want to get through it. And then my eye felt 64 00:04:09.825 --> 00:04:13.480 on this, synthesizer that I got for my 65 00:04:13.480 --> 00:04:17.320 birthday. And I was still wrapped. It's, it was 66 00:04:17.320 --> 00:04:21.079 one of my old passions to make music. And I said, 67 00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:24.380 come on. What? Hell, let's let's unwrap this thing. 68 00:04:24.724 --> 00:04:28.345 And I hooked it up, and I played music the whole day. 69 00:04:29.604 --> 00:04:33.284 And what I noticed is that by doing this, 70 00:04:33.284 --> 00:04:36.965 by shifting my focus away from, you know, 71 00:04:36.965 --> 00:04:40.104 the result oriented tasks that I needed to do, 72 00:04:40.730 --> 00:04:43.550 I felt energized. I felt inspired. 73 00:04:44.170 --> 00:04:48.010 I got back into flow. And I was able to do 74 00:04:48.010 --> 00:04:51.610 that list of tasks, in just 75 00:04:51.610 --> 00:04:55.255 maybe an hour or so afterwards. Just because 76 00:04:55.255 --> 00:04:58.775 I I, yeah, resourced. I refined my 77 00:04:58.775 --> 00:05:02.535 energy by having by 78 00:05:02.535 --> 00:05:06.215 making a small decision, actually. And that's that's that's what 79 00:05:06.215 --> 00:05:10.030 this neo or no expected outcome. That's what this 80 00:05:10.030 --> 00:05:13.870 that's what this is about. So that's quite a challenging journey 81 00:05:13.870 --> 00:05:17.169 you've had there. So a complete reboot. 82 00:05:17.389 --> 00:05:21.229 Yeah. But so he had no expected outcome from 83 00:05:21.229 --> 00:05:25.035 that, but you knew you knew what 84 00:05:25.035 --> 00:05:28.655 wasn't working. You just weren't sure 85 00:05:29.035 --> 00:05:32.575 what would work. Is it is that kind of fair? Yeah. Yeah. 86 00:05:33.515 --> 00:05:36.255 No. It's it is it is. No. I reflected 87 00:05:37.510 --> 00:05:40.910 a lot afterwards. After that particular Friday, I went 88 00:05:41.190 --> 00:05:45.030 Friday evening, I went walking with my 89 00:05:45.030 --> 00:05:48.550 dog in the park here and, just 90 00:05:48.550 --> 00:05:51.915 right in front of my house. And, as I was 91 00:05:51.915 --> 00:05:55.755 walking, I reflected on what what happened. And it doesn't seem like 92 00:05:55.755 --> 00:05:59.215 a lot happened, but it was for me, it was very profound 93 00:05:59.275 --> 00:06:03.055 because I was, you know, I'm a person who was always, you know, 94 00:06:03.115 --> 00:06:06.703 out there putting the foot on the pedal and put 95 00:06:06.703 --> 00:06:10.410 the foot on the pedal and plow through. And 96 00:06:10.410 --> 00:06:13.930 just by making a small decision to take a step 97 00:06:13.930 --> 00:06:17.725 back, to do something that I'm passionate about, 98 00:06:18.345 --> 00:06:22.185 being creative a whole day and 99 00:06:22.185 --> 00:06:26.025 having no expectation about this, not having not having this 100 00:06:26.025 --> 00:06:29.720 sense of guilt. I need to do this or or this will get me in 101 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:32.540 trouble. So this there was no no guilt involved. 102 00:06:33.400 --> 00:06:37.000 So it freed me. It set me free, actually. And 103 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:40.520 then as I was walking my dog, this this this word came to 104 00:06:40.520 --> 00:06:43.740 me, no expected outcome. I had 105 00:06:44.354 --> 00:06:47.715 no outcome that I was expecting from that day. I let it 106 00:06:47.715 --> 00:06:51.495 go, and that meant that I was able to 107 00:06:52.035 --> 00:06:55.555 reenergize myself. And yeah. And that's that's 108 00:06:55.555 --> 00:06:58.675 something that I that I discussed with a lot of people since 109 00:06:59.794 --> 00:07:03.530 and I found that But presumably. Yeah. Presumably. But when you when you were going 110 00:07:03.530 --> 00:07:07.050 up to this period, you must have had a a lot of 111 00:07:07.050 --> 00:07:10.889 apprehension, fear Mhmm. Nervousness, all these kind of 112 00:07:10.889 --> 00:07:14.270 words of limiting beliefs, things holding you back. 113 00:07:14.330 --> 00:07:18.125 Yeah. Was there a a particularly defining moment that 114 00:07:18.125 --> 00:07:21.885 you remember that was the key to the lock that allowed 115 00:07:21.885 --> 00:07:25.645 you to move forward? It was a conversation with a friend. And, 116 00:07:25.805 --> 00:07:29.325 I was talking about this my experience. And we were sitting in this, 117 00:07:29.485 --> 00:07:33.110 coffee shop drinking a cup of coffee and and having a sandwich. And, 118 00:07:33.430 --> 00:07:36.889 and then I was discussing you know, just talking about my experience. 119 00:07:37.910 --> 00:07:41.590 And then he said, you know, this is this is so recognizable because, you 120 00:07:41.590 --> 00:07:45.430 know, I'm also somebody who, he said, who who's really, you 121 00:07:45.430 --> 00:07:49.155 know, focused on, you know, results, results, 122 00:07:49.215 --> 00:07:52.175 results. I have to do this. I have to do that. I need to do 123 00:07:52.175 --> 00:07:54.995 this, and it needs to be perfect, and this and that. 124 00:07:56.015 --> 00:07:59.775 And, and as he as he was 125 00:07:59.775 --> 00:08:03.440 describing this, he burst into tears. He said, this is, this 126 00:08:03.440 --> 00:08:06.740 is, you know, he said, this your story is also my story 127 00:08:07.280 --> 00:08:10.880 because I have the same experience, but I'm not 128 00:08:10.880 --> 00:08:14.574 not able myself to do this, to do what you did. 129 00:08:14.574 --> 00:08:18.254 And it's such a simple thing. It's making a decision. But 130 00:08:18.254 --> 00:08:21.294 they said, I know from myself I won't be able to do this because I 131 00:08:21.294 --> 00:08:24.974 have this sense of, you know, if I would do this, first of 132 00:08:24.974 --> 00:08:28.130 all, I don't know if it would work for me. And second of all, yeah, 133 00:08:28.130 --> 00:08:31.570 would I be able to allow myself to do to make such a decision? And 134 00:08:31.570 --> 00:08:35.250 I had thought, you know, WTF, what is going on here? How 135 00:08:35.250 --> 00:08:38.985 how are we programmed that we have to 136 00:08:39.044 --> 00:08:42.885 perform every day? We we are robots and we have 137 00:08:42.885 --> 00:08:46.324 to be economically, you know, a piece of the 138 00:08:46.324 --> 00:08:50.165 machinery. I mean, that we don't allow ourselves this 139 00:08:50.165 --> 00:08:53.940 this small freedom to to be creative when we want. 140 00:08:53.940 --> 00:08:56.839 Would you looking back on it, would you say 141 00:08:57.620 --> 00:09:01.060 that COVID created the the the 142 00:09:01.060 --> 00:09:04.500 challenge with your business, which created the bankruptcy, which 143 00:09:04.500 --> 00:09:08.185 then empowered you to gender transition, or do you 144 00:09:08.185 --> 00:09:11.945 think it was kind of a bit of everything? It was a bit of everything. 145 00:09:11.945 --> 00:09:15.625 It's not I did not transition because of COVID. No. That that 146 00:09:15.625 --> 00:09:19.465 that that has been part of me for a way longer time. But it is 147 00:09:19.465 --> 00:09:23.290 it is it gave me the that that was 148 00:09:23.290 --> 00:09:27.050 something maybe that was an element, that it gave me the time to reflect 149 00:09:27.050 --> 00:09:30.190 on things. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 150 00:09:31.770 --> 00:09:35.230 I I I reflect on some of my my own history and my own experience. 151 00:09:36.894 --> 00:09:40.735 The once, momentum is in in progress, you know, 152 00:09:40.735 --> 00:09:44.334 you've got some movement on change. I'd almost felt that the need to just 153 00:09:44.334 --> 00:09:48.014 change everything rather than change a bit because you think you come back to it 154 00:09:48.014 --> 00:09:51.610 and you just pick at the edges. You got to cut deep and cut really 155 00:09:51.830 --> 00:09:55.110 efficiently into your life and say, hang on a minute. This isn't working in all 156 00:09:55.110 --> 00:09:58.810 these different aspects. And if you're going to change something, you must have just 157 00:09:58.950 --> 00:10:02.490 give it a go. Yeah. There's something there, of course. 158 00:10:03.350 --> 00:10:06.925 This this kind of this this is a kind of change that is 159 00:10:06.925 --> 00:10:10.464 profound because it's about your identity, and your identity 160 00:10:10.605 --> 00:10:14.204 determines so much. You know, it's and 161 00:10:14.204 --> 00:10:17.910 it's it's a very, very, very small things. It's not only the big things. 162 00:10:17.910 --> 00:10:21.670 It's not only about how you present yourself or how you you 163 00:10:21.670 --> 00:10:25.110 know, what what are you going to wear today. It's it's it's part of it, 164 00:10:25.110 --> 00:10:28.629 but it is it is not that. It is it goes so much 165 00:10:28.629 --> 00:10:32.245 deeper. And and, of course, COVID COVID played. It gave me the 166 00:10:32.245 --> 00:10:35.225 opportunity, to do this 167 00:10:36.005 --> 00:10:39.525 in kind of my own, my own tempo. You 168 00:10:39.525 --> 00:10:43.365 know? My own pace. That's that's true. So in 169 00:10:43.365 --> 00:10:47.080 that sense, yeah. So we'll talk a bit more 170 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:50.920 about your coaching and what you're doing now. But can I just ask you a 171 00:10:50.920 --> 00:10:54.520 couple of kind of questions around you're living in 172 00:10:54.520 --> 00:10:57.500 Belgium, you mentioned to me before we kicked off? 173 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:02.845 What's the, let's say, the climate for 174 00:11:03.385 --> 00:11:07.065 you as a a transgender woman? You know, we see what's going on in the 175 00:11:07.065 --> 00:11:09.865 US. We see what's going on in you probably see what's going on in the 176 00:11:09.865 --> 00:11:13.680 UK. I have very little knowledge around what it's like to 177 00:11:13.680 --> 00:11:17.459 be a transgender person in mainland 178 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:21.199 Europe. How does it feel to you? Well, I feel very 179 00:11:21.199 --> 00:11:24.660 lucky because in Belgium, we have one of the most progressive 180 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:28.285 legislation around gender and gender equality and 181 00:11:28.285 --> 00:11:31.825 gender. You know, that you can simply, as a Belgian 182 00:11:31.965 --> 00:11:35.745 citizen, you can simply go to the how does it call it? The city hall, 183 00:11:35.885 --> 00:11:39.565 to the administration, and just state, this is now my gender. And 184 00:11:39.565 --> 00:11:43.410 that's it. And they have to change everything legally just because you are 185 00:11:43.410 --> 00:11:47.010 making that statement. So it's very easy. 186 00:11:47.330 --> 00:11:50.850 There's Belgium, they decided that there shouldn't be any 187 00:11:50.850 --> 00:11:53.269 hurdles because that would be discriminatory 188 00:11:54.690 --> 00:11:58.264 how to say that? Discriminatory. Yeah. That's a 189 00:11:58.264 --> 00:12:00.845 difficult word for me as a Flemish. 190 00:12:01.865 --> 00:12:05.305 Yeah. So, and in that sense, we are very lucky. 191 00:12:05.305 --> 00:12:07.805 And in terms of society, 192 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:12.520 when I made public that I was transitioning, I got 193 00:12:12.520 --> 00:12:15.740 nothing else than encouragement and people 194 00:12:16.280 --> 00:12:19.980 who appreciated what I was doing and found it very courageous 195 00:12:20.040 --> 00:12:23.764 and things like that. So that's, that's even in my, it starts in my own 196 00:12:23.764 --> 00:12:26.425 family, of course. My wife, my daughter. 197 00:12:28.485 --> 00:12:32.165 Okay. My wife is a little bit different story, of course, because 198 00:12:32.165 --> 00:12:36.005 we were not married as a woman with a woman. We were married 199 00:12:36.005 --> 00:12:39.820 as a man with a woman. So and that's some still something, 200 00:12:39.820 --> 00:12:42.880 of course, we we have to work on every day, 201 00:12:43.820 --> 00:12:47.420 you know, because it's it's rocks the core very 202 00:12:47.420 --> 00:12:51.085 core of your foundation of your relationship. But 203 00:12:51.465 --> 00:12:54.985 in a broader sense, you know, within my family, with my 204 00:12:54.985 --> 00:12:58.445 coworkers, my, you know, my clients. Yeah. 205 00:12:58.905 --> 00:13:01.965 It was very, they welcomed it almost. 206 00:13:02.505 --> 00:13:06.050 And yeah, that's, that's I don't say that this is the experience 207 00:13:06.269 --> 00:13:10.029 for everyone in Belgium, but I built my life 208 00:13:10.029 --> 00:13:13.810 already in such a way that I surrounded 209 00:13:14.029 --> 00:13:17.735 myself with people and also what 210 00:13:17.735 --> 00:13:21.515 I do as a profession in a way that people would just, you know, 211 00:13:22.135 --> 00:13:25.815 that there wouldn't be any resistance to the to the to that 212 00:13:25.815 --> 00:13:29.575 change, to my transition. What was the biggest thing that surprised 213 00:13:29.575 --> 00:13:33.350 you around your transition? Yeah, that's a good question. Well, 214 00:13:33.970 --> 00:13:37.569 the person who had the most trouble with all this in my life 215 00:13:37.569 --> 00:13:40.949 is me. Yeah. It took a long 216 00:13:41.810 --> 00:13:45.555 time before I made before I decided, 217 00:13:45.555 --> 00:13:49.314 you know, I have to do something about this. That took a long 218 00:13:49.314 --> 00:13:53.154 time. Of course, you know, I'm 55 years old 219 00:13:53.154 --> 00:13:56.514 now. Meaning 50 you know, about 50 years 220 00:13:56.514 --> 00:13:59.735 ago, there wasn't much about gender. 221 00:14:00.459 --> 00:14:04.300 You know, that wasn't something people thought about. 222 00:14:04.300 --> 00:14:08.140 You know, it's just you're born in a certain way. You are, 223 00:14:08.140 --> 00:14:11.680 therefore, a girl or a boy. You know? 224 00:14:12.220 --> 00:14:16.000 And there was no awareness around it or on that topic. 225 00:14:17.005 --> 00:14:20.785 At least not in my family. Yeah. 226 00:14:20.925 --> 00:14:24.765 So, I could I can imagine when I if I would have been born 227 00:14:24.765 --> 00:14:28.605 now, things my wife would be a whole lot different. But in 228 00:14:28.605 --> 00:14:31.905 your coaching, you do 229 00:14:32.899 --> 00:14:35.639 now with working with individuals and organizations, 230 00:14:37.060 --> 00:14:40.519 what insights do you think that your your gender 231 00:14:40.740 --> 00:14:44.420 transition has had in your, your 232 00:14:44.420 --> 00:14:47.725 insights you help people with? It allows me 233 00:14:48.385 --> 00:14:52.065 to be more empathic. As I said, you know, the first person I had to 234 00:14:52.065 --> 00:14:55.825 deal with with how my whole transition was myself. I was the first 235 00:14:55.825 --> 00:14:59.505 person who needed to accept this, that this was a reality. And so 236 00:14:59.505 --> 00:15:02.930 now I'm I'm very more aware when 237 00:15:02.930 --> 00:15:06.230 people come with whatever issues that they have. 238 00:15:06.530 --> 00:15:09.970 I'm I'm much more able to put myself in the other 239 00:15:09.970 --> 00:15:13.814 shoes. And, I have a 240 00:15:13.814 --> 00:15:17.595 real sense of, you know, what what is going on. And, of course, 241 00:15:18.375 --> 00:15:22.134 I'm not only able to be more empathic, but also 242 00:15:22.134 --> 00:15:25.574 more authentic. And I can can truly speak from my heart 243 00:15:25.574 --> 00:15:29.070 now. Whereas before the I I always had this 244 00:15:29.310 --> 00:15:32.670 kind of a shield, you know, you project you project a 245 00:15:32.670 --> 00:15:36.430 persona to the outside, which is inauthentic, and it it's it 246 00:15:36.430 --> 00:15:39.950 felt also always felt wrong. So I'm 247 00:15:40.350 --> 00:15:43.790 it may be expected outcome strategy or mantra, if you 248 00:15:43.790 --> 00:15:47.555 like. We, as humans, we kind of we have 249 00:15:47.555 --> 00:15:51.315 our biases, we have our preconceived ideas, and we bring all this baggage 250 00:15:51.315 --> 00:15:55.154 with us, don't we, with these outcomes? How do you work with 251 00:15:55.154 --> 00:15:58.650 people to get into, if you like, let go of the baggage 252 00:15:59.050 --> 00:16:02.650 and and start to see possibilities. Yeah. There's there's difference 253 00:16:02.650 --> 00:16:06.330 between baggage and luggage. So I like to have some luggage with me, 254 00:16:06.330 --> 00:16:10.010 but not the baggage. And this is how I also you know, 255 00:16:10.010 --> 00:16:13.630 this is my frame when when people come with me with with whatever 256 00:16:14.245 --> 00:16:18.084 baggage they have and it's it's like, what is in there 257 00:16:18.084 --> 00:16:21.764 that could be transformed into something 258 00:16:21.764 --> 00:16:25.444 else that would be useful for you? But what I found 259 00:16:25.444 --> 00:16:28.884 is that the greatest hurdles that people deal with in 260 00:16:28.884 --> 00:16:31.870 those experiences lies 261 00:16:33.370 --> 00:16:36.890 the the root of the solution. Like like we just 262 00:16:36.890 --> 00:16:40.730 said, because of COVID, I had all these troubles. But also because of 263 00:16:40.730 --> 00:16:44.430 COVID, it created this opportunity for me to 264 00:16:44.675 --> 00:16:48.435 to look at the world in a different way and to experience something 265 00:16:48.435 --> 00:16:52.115 that maybe otherwise I would have never experienced. So 266 00:16:52.115 --> 00:16:55.735 there's always, you know, there's there's this coin that has two sides. So 267 00:16:55.795 --> 00:16:59.254 what I what I do is when I have a coaching 268 00:16:59.394 --> 00:17:02.880 client, and not only asking questions, 269 00:17:03.100 --> 00:17:06.619 you know, what are your goals and what are your resources and blah blah 270 00:17:06.619 --> 00:17:10.460 blah, but it's like a journey. I look at 271 00:17:10.460 --> 00:17:14.140 it as a journey and an exploration where people 272 00:17:14.140 --> 00:17:17.265 can discover parts within them that 273 00:17:17.645 --> 00:17:21.345 maybe they would have rejected somehow in the past, 274 00:17:22.125 --> 00:17:25.724 but now are able to give it a 275 00:17:25.724 --> 00:17:28.945 place and see it as a resource. 276 00:17:30.330 --> 00:17:34.150 And maybe I I'll give an example. Someone just 277 00:17:34.150 --> 00:17:37.790 said, you know, I'm, I'm having trouble relaxing. 278 00:17:39.530 --> 00:17:42.750 I'm I'm always, in my mind, busy, busy, busy, busy. 279 00:17:43.565 --> 00:17:47.325 And I find it very hard to create the mental 280 00:17:47.325 --> 00:17:50.685 space that I need to feel at ease, to, yeah, 281 00:17:50.685 --> 00:17:54.365 be myself, actually. And so what I what we 282 00:17:54.365 --> 00:17:57.825 did, we we did a little exercise, and it's kind of 283 00:17:57.990 --> 00:18:01.590 an it's kind of a 284 00:18:01.590 --> 00:18:04.970 imaginary journey that you make in your own landscape. 285 00:18:05.990 --> 00:18:09.290 It's called mindscaping. And during that 286 00:18:09.429 --> 00:18:12.970 exercise, which is a guided meditation slash 287 00:18:13.775 --> 00:18:16.995 hypnosis. It's a bit of both, and it's very 288 00:18:18.174 --> 00:18:21.855 metaphorical. It's kind of a guided dream 289 00:18:21.855 --> 00:18:24.755 almost. And 290 00:18:25.695 --> 00:18:28.914 and then there was this girl that came to her 291 00:18:30.090 --> 00:18:33.790 and, she says, she's perfection. 292 00:18:34.090 --> 00:18:37.930 This girl is perfection. And she 293 00:18:37.930 --> 00:18:41.690 offers me a flower. And the moment she got that 294 00:18:41.690 --> 00:18:45.405 flower, she burst into tears and she said, okay, I see the beauty 295 00:18:45.465 --> 00:18:48.685 of it, but I also see that the flower is cut. 296 00:18:49.305 --> 00:18:53.065 So even though the flower is perfect, it is not 297 00:18:53.065 --> 00:18:56.585 perfect. So this is whole duality there. And that 298 00:18:56.585 --> 00:19:00.170 changed the way she looks at the world now. 299 00:19:00.170 --> 00:19:03.150 And now she's able to see that 300 00:19:03.530 --> 00:19:06.970 perfection. You know, it 301 00:19:06.970 --> 00:19:10.590 is elusive. It is something that you can 302 00:19:10.650 --> 00:19:14.054 appreciate and you can strive for. But at the 303 00:19:14.054 --> 00:19:17.514 same time, you know, perfection is also something 304 00:19:18.054 --> 00:19:21.735 you can let go. And it is yeah. They often 305 00:19:21.735 --> 00:19:25.414 say that perfection is the enemy of progress, because we're so busy 306 00:19:25.414 --> 00:19:29.039 trying to get everything completely right, completely 307 00:19:29.259 --> 00:19:32.700 okay. And sometimes good enough is good enough, isn't it? It 308 00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:36.379 is. It is. And, just 309 00:19:36.379 --> 00:19:40.080 last weekend, I, facilitated a 310 00:19:40.765 --> 00:19:44.525 conference for visual practitioners, which 311 00:19:44.525 --> 00:19:47.965 are people who are helping organizations to, you 312 00:19:47.965 --> 00:19:51.265 know, solve problems, be more creative, brainstorm, 313 00:19:51.405 --> 00:19:55.120 teach, and all these kind of things. So I was facilitating 314 00:19:55.340 --> 00:19:58.940 this and, people had to draw on big, big, big sheets of 315 00:19:58.940 --> 00:20:02.559 paper, you know, what their intention was for the day, 316 00:20:02.860 --> 00:20:05.919 for themselves, for each other, and so on. 317 00:20:06.595 --> 00:20:10.115 And so as we were as a group with about 40 318 00:20:10.115 --> 00:20:13.795 people, drawing on a big sheet of paper about 319 00:20:13.795 --> 00:20:17.175 10 meters wide with all kinds of colors and making 320 00:20:17.235 --> 00:20:20.135 drawings and putting on some slogans and whatever. 321 00:20:21.299 --> 00:20:24.019 And and one of the one of the participants came up to me and she 322 00:20:24.019 --> 00:20:27.779 said, you know, this is so amazing and so beautiful. It 323 00:20:27.779 --> 00:20:31.139 it is something to, wow, to to really hold on 324 00:20:31.139 --> 00:20:34.805 to. And she said, you know, what else? What is going to happen with this 325 00:20:34.805 --> 00:20:38.425 piece of this big sheet of paper after the conference? 326 00:20:40.005 --> 00:20:43.685 And I said, you know, I I look at it as a as a 327 00:20:43.685 --> 00:20:47.310 mandala. It only exists here and now 328 00:20:47.310 --> 00:20:51.070 in this moment. And it exists for you, and 329 00:20:51.070 --> 00:20:54.830 it will still exist afterwards in your hearts because 330 00:20:54.830 --> 00:20:58.430 you have experienced it. But after this, the paper will be 331 00:20:58.430 --> 00:21:02.105 gone. You know, we will tear it up and put it in a 332 00:21:02.105 --> 00:21:05.404 bin. And she said, that's, you know, 333 00:21:05.865 --> 00:21:09.625 she had some struggles with that idea, but it is beautiful. It 334 00:21:09.625 --> 00:21:13.465 is beautiful. Yeah. Because You said just now 335 00:21:13.465 --> 00:21:16.830 that you've it's different between luggage and 336 00:21:16.830 --> 00:21:20.429 baggage. I I thought that was a really good analogy there, where we 337 00:21:20.429 --> 00:21:24.269 often fill up with carrying around baggage. So what we need to do 338 00:21:24.269 --> 00:21:26.929 is we need to unpack all of our baggage 339 00:21:28.135 --> 00:21:31.515 and extract the valuable parts, the luggage. 340 00:21:31.895 --> 00:21:35.435 Yeah. And jettison those baggage elements. 341 00:21:35.735 --> 00:21:39.115 So we're traveling lighter with stuff we need, 342 00:21:39.655 --> 00:21:42.270 not bogged down with everything we don't need. 343 00:21:43.390 --> 00:21:47.010 Indeed. Indeed. And just to reflect for the listener also, just 344 00:21:47.390 --> 00:21:50.770 just ask yourself this question, what is holding me back? What, 345 00:21:50.830 --> 00:21:54.590 what do I keep dragging behind me? Like 346 00:21:54.590 --> 00:21:57.705 every day that I maybe don't need? Or maybe 347 00:21:58.485 --> 00:22:02.325 there's something in there that is of real value. Just when I look at 348 00:22:02.325 --> 00:22:05.765 it in a different way and it becomes lighter and it becomes something that is 349 00:22:05.765 --> 00:22:09.445 useful for you. And it's not holding you back. Most of the change we 350 00:22:09.445 --> 00:22:13.240 actually need within ourselves, isn't it? It's, you said earlier, what 351 00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:17.080 was the biggest surprise? What was the biggest barrier? Yourself holding yourself back. And what 352 00:22:17.080 --> 00:22:20.540 we find is we become our own limiting belief, our own perfectionist, 353 00:22:20.840 --> 00:22:24.674 or we could become constrained by our own 354 00:22:24.674 --> 00:22:28.515 beliefs, don't we? And that's what we need to unlock sometimes. Because if we 355 00:22:28.515 --> 00:22:32.115 don't take a step forward, we'll always stand still. And it's a ton of work 356 00:22:32.115 --> 00:22:35.635 out to find that bravery or that or realize that we're more 357 00:22:35.635 --> 00:22:38.855 uncomfortable by being where we are than we would be by moving forward. 358 00:22:39.740 --> 00:22:43.200 Indeed. For instance, for me, I've always felt that, 359 00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:47.980 when I was, when I was before my transition, I had to 360 00:22:47.980 --> 00:22:51.340 prove myself. I always had the sense, you know, I have 361 00:22:51.340 --> 00:22:55.055 to prove myself that I am a 362 00:22:55.055 --> 00:22:58.195 man. I found that very hard, by the way. 363 00:22:58.895 --> 00:23:02.655 It took a lot of energy from me because it was it didn't 364 00:23:02.655 --> 00:23:05.715 feel natural for obvious reasons. 365 00:23:06.815 --> 00:23:10.560 And, and once I let go of 366 00:23:10.560 --> 00:23:14.400 that, it transformed me. And I now I 367 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:18.240 feel free. I feel a lot lighter. I feel a lot more 368 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:22.000 comfortable. And I couldn't really be myself in 369 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.635 front of a whole group. Whereas before, I 370 00:23:25.635 --> 00:23:29.075 always felt like I had to put on an act. And that is, you know, 371 00:23:29.075 --> 00:23:32.615 that, that what that part of me was, was the baggage. 372 00:23:32.835 --> 00:23:36.535 But, but it also had the roots. Because, because 373 00:23:36.675 --> 00:23:40.020 it's brought me on this journey to really explore 374 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:43.600 and investigate and find out what was going 375 00:23:43.600 --> 00:23:47.380 on and to learn a whole lot about how the brain works, 376 00:23:47.600 --> 00:23:50.420 about psychology, even though I'm not a psychologist. 377 00:23:51.280 --> 00:23:55.125 But, you know, and I pushed myself, you know, 378 00:23:55.125 --> 00:23:58.825 learning and teaching about this, you know, in front of 379 00:23:58.885 --> 00:24:02.725 groups of people as a trainer and as a coach. And this 380 00:24:02.725 --> 00:24:06.510 really enabled me to to let go of a lot of things, but 381 00:24:06.510 --> 00:24:10.210 also to transform and reintegrate some parts of, 382 00:24:10.270 --> 00:24:13.810 you know, not only the science and the knowledge that we have 383 00:24:14.430 --> 00:24:18.270 about, you know, what it means to be human and, you know, 384 00:24:18.270 --> 00:24:21.985 and about gender and all these things. But it also helped me to 385 00:24:22.765 --> 00:24:26.524 to integrate on a on a deep, deep, deep 386 00:24:26.524 --> 00:24:30.125 level the experience that I 387 00:24:30.125 --> 00:24:33.750 had. I wouldn't be the person that I am today without that 388 00:24:33.910 --> 00:24:37.590 experience. It is the foundation of my confidence today. So I 389 00:24:37.590 --> 00:24:41.190 mean, I think it's fair to say that many people 390 00:24:41.190 --> 00:24:44.870 don't understand about being trans, gender, 391 00:24:44.870 --> 00:24:48.485 non binary, or having a gender identity that is not 392 00:24:48.625 --> 00:24:52.385 as aligned that you were given at birth. So you said 393 00:24:52.385 --> 00:24:55.845 just now that you spent many, many years of your life trying to 394 00:24:56.545 --> 00:25:00.280 prove to the world you were a man, and you found that exhausting, 395 00:25:00.340 --> 00:25:03.400 tiring, and something that was making you feel uncomfortable. 396 00:25:04.179 --> 00:25:07.799 Do you now find the challenge is having to explain what 397 00:25:07.860 --> 00:25:11.539 being trans for transgender means and having to maybe 398 00:25:11.539 --> 00:25:15.025 justify yourself as a woman to certain people? You definitely 399 00:25:15.025 --> 00:25:18.545 don't have the sense that I have to justify anything. No, no, 400 00:25:18.545 --> 00:25:22.225 no. That's that's not the case. I had to 401 00:25:22.225 --> 00:25:25.845