WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:11.219 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 2 00:00:11.360 --> 00:00:15.125 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 3 00:00:15.265 --> 00:00:18.705 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 4 00:00:18.705 --> 00:00:22.405 inclusion, belonging, and societal transformation. 5 00:00:23.105 --> 00:00:26.625 Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world where 6 00:00:26.625 --> 00:00:30.050 everyone not only belongs but thrives? You're 7 00:00:30.050 --> 00:00:33.649 not alone. Join me as we uncover the 8 00:00:33.649 --> 00:00:37.250 unseen, challenge the status quo, and share 9 00:00:37.250 --> 00:00:41.090 stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive 10 00:00:41.090 --> 00:00:44.905 in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down 11 00:00:44.905 --> 00:00:48.665 after a long day, let's connect, reflect, and 12 00:00:48.665 --> 00:00:52.425 inspire action together. Don't forget, you 13 00:00:52.425 --> 00:00:55.385 can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to 14 00:00:55.385 --> 00:00:57.140 jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 15 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:02.739 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 16 00:01:03.440 --> 00:01:07.200 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 17 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:10.115 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion 18 00:01:13.375 --> 00:01:17.075 Bites. And today is episode 19 00:01:17.375 --> 00:01:21.135 143 with the title, Back and 20 00:01:21.135 --> 00:01:24.940 Field to Boardroom. And I have the absolute honour and privilege 21 00:01:24.940 --> 00:01:28.620 to welcome Taran Kumar. Taran is a 22 00:01:28.620 --> 00:01:31.280 former army officer and battle survivor. 23 00:01:32.540 --> 00:01:36.159 He is now a leadership coach and start up mentor who inspires 24 00:01:36.300 --> 00:01:39.815 professionals and organisations to unlock 25 00:01:39.955 --> 00:01:43.315 their potential. When I asked Darren to describe his superpower, he 26 00:01:43.315 --> 00:01:46.375 said that it is transforming 27 00:01:46.835 --> 00:01:50.134 adversity into opportunity by empowering 28 00:01:50.275 --> 00:01:54.100 individuals to lead with purpose and resilience. 29 00:01:54.880 --> 00:01:58.320 Hello, Darren. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Joanne, for 30 00:01:58.320 --> 00:02:02.159 inviting me to this lovely platform of yours. Pleasure is all 31 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:05.995 mine. And you're tapped everywhere in the world 32 00:02:05.995 --> 00:02:09.354 you are. You're in India. Is that right? 33 00:02:09.354 --> 00:02:12.795 Absolutely. Nowadays, India is in the talks. 34 00:02:12.795 --> 00:02:16.315 And I come from a place called Ahmedabad, which 35 00:02:16.315 --> 00:02:20.000 happens to be the city from where our prime 36 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:23.840 minister Narendra Modi comes. And it's a beautiful part of the 37 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:27.519 world. You must visit once to India because that is 38 00:02:27.519 --> 00:02:30.799 something which should be there on your bucket list. It is. It is. I've, 39 00:02:31.200 --> 00:02:34.915 ticked off Melbourne, Australia, and the south coast of Australia, 40 00:02:34.915 --> 00:02:38.755 and I I need to explore more of Asia. And, India is 41 00:02:38.755 --> 00:02:42.435 definitely up there on the list. Yes. India is a very 42 00:02:42.435 --> 00:02:45.750 diverse country. We have so many languages, 43 00:02:46.130 --> 00:02:49.890 so many different cultures, and that's why we call 44 00:02:49.890 --> 00:02:53.569 our country to be a perfect example of unity 45 00:02:53.569 --> 00:02:57.170 in diversity. And as a country, you've gone through a massive 46 00:02:57.170 --> 00:03:00.715 transformation over the last 50 or so years 47 00:03:00.715 --> 00:03:04.394 post colonial. And you've got a new country up, really, aren't 48 00:03:04.394 --> 00:03:07.915 you? In fact, you know, every country that comes out of a 49 00:03:07.915 --> 00:03:11.135 colonial mindset takes time for that 50 00:03:11.995 --> 00:03:15.359 thing to get over. And India was no exception for 51 00:03:15.359 --> 00:03:18.819 that. However, our forefathers, 52 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:23.219 the people, those who fought for the independence of our country, 53 00:03:23.519 --> 00:03:27.275 they had a grand vision about India. And they ensured 54 00:03:27.335 --> 00:03:30.875 that we carry out our progress 55 00:03:31.015 --> 00:03:34.775 through something which is so keen 56 00:03:34.775 --> 00:03:38.475 and that we discussed that in this diverse world, 57 00:03:38.750 --> 00:03:42.270 there should be a lot of inclusivity. And we 58 00:03:42.270 --> 00:03:46.030 started including the industrial revolution, how the 59 00:03:46.030 --> 00:03:49.630 factories would come up. India was once upon a time known 60 00:03:49.630 --> 00:03:53.470 as in our lingo, we call it as a 61 00:03:53.470 --> 00:03:57.135 bird, which was made of gold. And that's why Columbus, 62 00:03:57.275 --> 00:04:01.114 Vasco da Gama, they all came to India just to explore this 63 00:04:01.114 --> 00:04:04.815 beautiful country and know, and that's why we got invaded 64 00:04:04.875 --> 00:04:08.400 also. So it is no exception, but then when 65 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:11.920 people plunder, they loot, they do not leave you in the right 66 00:04:11.920 --> 00:04:15.440 stage or right state. And it takes 67 00:04:15.440 --> 00:04:19.200 almost couple of generations for a country to revive 68 00:04:19.200 --> 00:04:22.475 itself. And now we are on an upwardly 69 00:04:22.695 --> 00:04:26.375 mobile phase. I can assure you that, we 70 00:04:26.375 --> 00:04:30.215 are progressing by leaps and bounds, making our impact felt 71 00:04:30.215 --> 00:04:33.755 on the world and being a very peaceful nation. 72 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:38.600 You will find that we have friends almost everywhere 73 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:42.280 across the world. You're the fastest growing economy in the world. Is that 74 00:04:42.760 --> 00:04:46.280 Yes. It's not. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. We are the fastest 75 00:04:46.280 --> 00:04:49.900 growing economy, and it is certainly related to the population 76 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:53.625 that we have. So we can do lot of in house consumption. 77 00:04:54.164 --> 00:04:57.925 And at the same time, we have the ability 78 00:04:57.925 --> 00:05:01.764 to support other countries. Today, we are growing in 79 00:05:01.764 --> 00:05:05.180 agriculture. Today, we are supporting other 80 00:05:05.180 --> 00:05:08.860 countries through technology. Indian brains, you 81 00:05:08.860 --> 00:05:12.160 know, they are ruling most of the top notch technology 82 00:05:12.300 --> 00:05:15.920 companies, Johan. What do you say? No. I've I've seen 83 00:05:16.205 --> 00:05:19.965 the rise of of Indian expertise over the last 20, 84 00:05:19.965 --> 00:05:23.345 30 years. At one stage, we were outsourcing to you, 85 00:05:23.805 --> 00:05:27.345 and now you you have the expertise and you're selling it back to us. 86 00:05:27.965 --> 00:05:31.560 Yes. So life has taken a complete circle. I would say 87 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:35.400 that. And now there is a value exchange that is 88 00:05:35.400 --> 00:05:39.000 happening. People in our country, they are pretty serious in 89 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:42.760 whatever they do. It's not only about fun. It 90 00:05:42.760 --> 00:05:46.195 is about value addition. And that is something which is 91 00:05:46.195 --> 00:05:50.035 very intrinsic to Indians in one way or the other. 92 00:05:50.035 --> 00:05:53.795 All five fingers are not the same. So you may happen to have interaction 93 00:05:53.795 --> 00:05:57.235 with some who are not aligned to this thought, but 94 00:05:57.235 --> 00:06:00.850 majority of people you'll find when they're working for corporations or when 95 00:06:00.850 --> 00:06:04.150 they're leading, heading these corporations, their entire 96 00:06:04.690 --> 00:06:08.390 focus is on growing that organization. 97 00:06:09.810 --> 00:06:13.395 And when you grow, your own growth 98 00:06:13.615 --> 00:06:17.375 automatically happens. From my understanding, India has 99 00:06:17.375 --> 00:06:21.055 a very hierarchical society with 100 00:06:21.055 --> 00:06:24.275 the caste system and different structures and hierarchy 101 00:06:24.414 --> 00:06:27.880 within the population. Is that something 102 00:06:27.880 --> 00:06:31.020 that's evolving away, or is that still quite rigid? 103 00:06:31.960 --> 00:06:34.700 No. In fact, that is how it has been projected. 104 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:39.560 We are very open. You know, every society has got 105 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:43.345 certain castes. Every society has got certain people who are 106 00:06:43.345 --> 00:06:47.025 supposed to perform certain tasks in the 107 00:06:47.025 --> 00:06:50.465 olden days. And those profession, they still continue 108 00:06:50.465 --> 00:06:53.605 because that is how they get recognized in the society. 109 00:06:54.440 --> 00:06:57.880 So India was no exception to that rule. And 110 00:06:57.880 --> 00:07:00.940 somehow people, they 111 00:07:02.200 --> 00:07:05.500 inched up the ladder. They were not 112 00:07:06.495 --> 00:07:09.955 standing static wherever they were about 100 years back. 113 00:07:10.415 --> 00:07:14.195 But the way the narrative was built up, I would say, Juwon, 114 00:07:14.655 --> 00:07:18.495 that was not in line with the actual picture 115 00:07:18.495 --> 00:07:22.270 that India represents. So we are pretty 116 00:07:22.889 --> 00:07:26.669 open about lot of things. And, yes, in certain parts, 117 00:07:27.449 --> 00:07:30.669 I would not be hesitating in accepting that, this 118 00:07:30.889 --> 00:07:34.525 particular problem persists, but then there are givers and 119 00:07:34.525 --> 00:07:38.365 takers everywhere. So there would be naysayers who 120 00:07:38.365 --> 00:07:42.205 would not agree to everything that's happening right. So 121 00:07:42.205 --> 00:07:45.425 they would like, same thing to continue. But, yes, 122 00:07:46.130 --> 00:07:49.810 India is changing in a big way and come 123 00:07:49.810 --> 00:07:53.410 what may, whatever the world may say, we are 124 00:07:53.410 --> 00:07:57.010 no longer the same, country of snake 125 00:07:57.010 --> 00:08:00.835 charmers or the country of elephant riders or the whatever 126 00:08:00.835 --> 00:08:04.135 way people used to talk about it. We are now a technological 127 00:08:04.515 --> 00:08:08.115 power. But you're a, space superpower blasting of 128 00:08:08.115 --> 00:08:11.190 satellites, planning moon missions, everything. So yeah. 129 00:08:11.510 --> 00:08:15.290 Yes. In fact, the Indian Space Research Organization 130 00:08:15.670 --> 00:08:19.510 has grown by leaps and bounds. It is 131 00:08:19.510 --> 00:08:23.130 such a satisfying feeling to say 132 00:08:23.590 --> 00:08:27.005 that over a period of time, we were dependent on the 133 00:08:27.005 --> 00:08:30.445 developed nations for our surveillance, for our weather 134 00:08:30.445 --> 00:08:34.205 forecasting and other things. And especially when it 135 00:08:34.205 --> 00:08:37.265 comes to defending the sovereignty of your country. 136 00:08:38.125 --> 00:08:41.830 And that is the time, most of the people, those who were 137 00:08:41.830 --> 00:08:44.650 in power, they realized that we ought to have our own systems. 138 00:08:45.990 --> 00:08:49.830 And because of a non aligned nature today, whatever we 139 00:08:49.830 --> 00:08:53.670 are doing is purely for the growth of the 140 00:08:53.670 --> 00:08:57.375 country. Mhmm. If being a military man, I can tell 141 00:08:57.375 --> 00:09:00.975 you that my interests are not expansionist in 142 00:09:00.975 --> 00:09:04.195 nature. If you are not coming onto my toes. 143 00:09:05.135 --> 00:09:08.975 But if you push me, then I must have the ability to push you 144 00:09:08.975 --> 00:09:12.480 back. In the modern world, in our connective world, in our 145 00:09:12.700 --> 00:09:16.160 technology dependent world, we need GPS. 146 00:09:16.460 --> 00:09:20.300 We need accurate time signals, which is delivered by GPS. We 147 00:09:20.300 --> 00:09:24.125 need Internet connectivity. And I guess India is no different. 148 00:09:24.125 --> 00:09:27.965 You have to have control of those assets yourself. Otherwise, you're dependent on other 149 00:09:27.965 --> 00:09:31.325 people. No. That is that is very important for your own 150 00:09:31.325 --> 00:09:34.925 survival. Otherwise, in the event of some kind 151 00:09:34.925 --> 00:09:38.629 of, I would say calamity, in the 152 00:09:38.629 --> 00:09:42.250 event of some kind of, problem with your neighbors 153 00:09:42.310 --> 00:09:45.610 and somebody else is controlling and all your equipment goes 154 00:09:45.670 --> 00:09:49.190 haywire or it is not giving you the right inputs, your 155 00:09:49.190 --> 00:09:53.005 entire military effort would go in vain. So it is very 156 00:09:53.005 --> 00:09:56.845 important for any nation to be self reliant 157 00:09:56.845 --> 00:10:00.465 on these aspects. Then only you can defend 158 00:10:00.525 --> 00:10:04.285 yourself. When you do not have this kind 159 00:10:04.285 --> 00:10:08.010 of a fear that what if in the event 160 00:10:08.010 --> 00:10:11.529 of something going not the way you have designed and 161 00:10:11.529 --> 00:10:14.990 somebody stops this data coming to you? 162 00:10:16.250 --> 00:10:19.850 Because most of your equipment is data driven. Most of your long 163 00:10:19.850 --> 00:10:23.575 range weaponry system is all about how do you fix those 164 00:10:23.575 --> 00:10:27.355 coordinates? And those coordinates, how do you get you get them through these GPSs, 165 00:10:27.735 --> 00:10:31.495 through satellites? And this concept 166 00:10:31.495 --> 00:10:35.255 of single time is is critically important. You've got to be within millionth of a 167 00:10:35.255 --> 00:10:38.770 microsecond accurate. Otherwise, all business transactions, 168 00:10:38.770 --> 00:10:42.530 banking transactions all time. Everything goes for a 6. Everything goes for 169 00:10:42.530 --> 00:10:44.870 a 6. And over a period of time, 170 00:10:46.370 --> 00:10:48.950 we have realized one more thing. And that is 171 00:10:50.305 --> 00:10:53.845 your economic independence determines 172 00:10:54.225 --> 00:10:57.525 your military might. If you're economically 173 00:10:58.145 --> 00:11:01.920 superior and you want to maintain that independence of yours, 174 00:11:02.160 --> 00:11:05.920 you ought to have a strong military and not the other 175 00:11:05.920 --> 00:11:09.760 way around. So that is very important for us. Help help me. I'm curious 176 00:11:09.760 --> 00:11:13.600 here. If I think about the UK, North 177 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:17.205 America, maybe even the US, And I think about some of the 178 00:11:17.205 --> 00:11:20.425 challenges that businesses and society face from 179 00:11:20.885 --> 00:11:24.185 an inclusion perspective. Yeah. We think about 180 00:11:24.965 --> 00:11:28.645 gender. We think about ethnicity, race. We think about disability. We think 181 00:11:28.645 --> 00:11:32.370 about LGBTQ plus as kind of the 182 00:11:32.370 --> 00:11:36.150 big high level things. What do you think are the challenges 183 00:11:36.290 --> 00:11:39.990 within your own country, economy and commerce 184 00:11:40.210 --> 00:11:43.995 around that? Well, I would say that there is a 185 00:11:43.995 --> 00:11:46.495 presence of differences within given settings, 186 00:11:47.915 --> 00:11:51.695 whether it is concerning race, gender, 187 00:11:51.835 --> 00:11:55.675 age, sexual orientation, disability. But then at the same 188 00:11:55.675 --> 00:11:58.990 time, we are open to the inclusive 189 00:11:59.490 --> 00:12:02.630 opportunity that the same environment extends. 190 00:12:03.970 --> 00:12:07.750 It's about creating a space where any individual 191 00:12:07.810 --> 00:12:11.295 or group can or feel welcomed, 192 00:12:11.675 --> 00:12:15.115 respected, supported, valued. They can 193 00:12:15.115 --> 00:12:18.875 participate fully in the nation building process. And that 194 00:12:18.875 --> 00:12:22.574 is so important for the growth of any community organization 195 00:12:22.875 --> 00:12:26.330 or nation for that matter. So we are no different. 196 00:12:26.950 --> 00:12:30.790 Yes. There are certain challenges. There are certain challenges 197 00:12:30.790 --> 00:12:34.470 in terms of, I would say, the legal 198 00:12:34.470 --> 00:12:37.990 provisions, which are existing, because obviously we are an 199 00:12:37.990 --> 00:12:40.855 offshoot of the colonial era. However, 200 00:12:41.875 --> 00:12:45.715 we are also open to amending those laws. We are 201 00:12:45.715 --> 00:12:49.415 open to accepting these people into the mainstream 202 00:12:49.955 --> 00:12:53.475 because ultimately we cannot grow if we are 203 00:12:53.475 --> 00:12:57.320 not having participation from all walks of society. 204 00:12:57.380 --> 00:13:01.060 So you've got many, many states. I think would you say 205 00:13:01.060 --> 00:13:04.820 39 states or 30 20 29 206 00:13:04.820 --> 00:13:08.464 states. You've got a a large number of 207 00:13:08.464 --> 00:13:12.305 different languages and different religions. Is there a is 208 00:13:12.305 --> 00:13:15.985 there a kind of historical pecking order, 209 00:13:15.985 --> 00:13:19.685 priority, privilege amongst language, amongst 210 00:13:19.904 --> 00:13:22.885 where you come from in the in within the continent or 211 00:13:23.880 --> 00:13:27.720 the religion you have? Is there an inherent power base 212 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.399 amongst certain languages and religions? Well, no. When the 213 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:35.079 Indian Constitution was enshrined, although at not that point in 214 00:13:35.079 --> 00:13:38.475 time, but later on, the word secular got incorporated 215 00:13:38.695 --> 00:13:42.215 into the Indian constitution and we still maintain 216 00:13:42.215 --> 00:13:45.995 it. We have a larger 217 00:13:46.135 --> 00:13:49.915 population base of Hindus, but then Hinduism, 218 00:13:50.215 --> 00:13:53.870 apart from being a religion, it is a way of life. It is, 219 00:13:54.730 --> 00:13:58.350 we are very tolerant in our outlook. We celebrate 220 00:13:59.210 --> 00:14:03.050 every festival with the same fervor and without any 221 00:14:03.050 --> 00:14:05.950 malice, without any doubt that 222 00:14:06.410 --> 00:14:09.885 we love celebrating festivals. We love 223 00:14:09.885 --> 00:14:13.725 celebrating the thing called human 224 00:14:13.725 --> 00:14:17.405 evolution on this planet. And for that, I have to 225 00:14:17.405 --> 00:14:21.085 enjoy what my neighbors are doing. I cannot be 226 00:14:21.085 --> 00:14:24.880 jealous of when they are celebrating and only be concerned about my 227 00:14:24.880 --> 00:14:28.500 own celebrations. I cannot be thinking that whatever 228 00:14:28.560 --> 00:14:32.240 they believe in is not right. I have to 229 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:36.079 understand why do they believe in that 230 00:14:36.079 --> 00:14:39.495 thing? And is there a way I can 231 00:14:39.495 --> 00:14:43.095 learn from their perspective? And that is what 232 00:14:43.095 --> 00:14:46.855 Hindus do. In fact, you will not 233 00:14:46.855 --> 00:14:50.455 find any Hindus who are out in 234 00:14:50.455 --> 00:14:53.035 this world converting the rest of the population. 235 00:14:54.590 --> 00:14:58.210 Give me one instance of people from 236 00:14:58.590 --> 00:15:01.410 Hindu religion or the Hindu way of life. 237 00:15:02.030 --> 00:15:05.390 People themselves come and they love 238 00:15:05.390 --> 00:15:09.085 that feeling. They love that joy. They love that 239 00:15:09.085 --> 00:15:12.685 freedom. They love that oneness with the nature, with the 240 00:15:12.685 --> 00:15:16.525 God because of which they say that I 241 00:15:16.525 --> 00:15:20.205 would love to be an ISKCON devotee or I would like to 242 00:15:20.205 --> 00:15:24.020 be doing Hari Rama, Hari Krishna, whatever. These are 243 00:15:24.020 --> 00:15:26.760 all, you know, we have got more than 33,000 244 00:15:28.420 --> 00:15:32.260 gods and none of us is forced to follow 1 God. Means I 245 00:15:32.260 --> 00:15:35.940 can I follow so many gods because ultimately we believe in 246 00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:39.575 one thing that there is one supreme and something 247 00:15:39.575 --> 00:15:43.415 that keeps us all in a state in which we 248 00:15:43.415 --> 00:15:47.175 are when things are there, which we do not understand, how 249 00:15:47.175 --> 00:15:50.730 do we try and understand them? By saying that there is some 250 00:15:50.730 --> 00:15:54.490 superpower which is controlling all these things. Otherwise, we are 251 00:15:54.490 --> 00:15:58.170 trying to control most of the things. We are trying to, do the 252 00:15:58.170 --> 00:16:02.010 DNA understanding. We are trying to do how we can 253 00:16:02.010 --> 00:16:05.535 build embryos in the deep state, 254 00:16:05.535 --> 00:16:09.214 cryogenic things means we are trying to, interfere 255 00:16:09.214 --> 00:16:12.675 with the way the God has created this planet. 256 00:16:13.694 --> 00:16:16.834 Because we want to understand that, and that is where our inquisitively 257 00:16:17.295 --> 00:16:20.730 lies. Today, there is a lot of questions that are being asked on 258 00:16:20.730 --> 00:16:24.430 artificial intelligence. Whether it is right or wrong 259 00:16:24.649 --> 00:16:28.190 means whether it will overtake the human race or not. Why? Because 260 00:16:28.329 --> 00:16:31.850 there are so many things which we do not comprehend. We do not 261 00:16:31.850 --> 00:16:35.585 know whether they are going to be a bane or boon. And that is so 262 00:16:35.585 --> 00:16:39.205 important for us to understand that in our iterative 263 00:16:39.585 --> 00:16:43.365 process, if things go right, we take the credit. 264 00:16:43.505 --> 00:16:47.110 If things go wrong, then whom do we blame for? Then we say that, 265 00:16:47.110 --> 00:16:50.790 oh, God. Yeah. God is the, excuse for things going wrong. But I 266 00:16:50.790 --> 00:16:54.550 think that's beautiful. I think, as you said, you're not trying to convert 267 00:16:54.550 --> 00:16:58.330 people. You're saying, this is us. Come with us if you wish. 268 00:16:58.964 --> 00:17:02.725 Yes. Celebrate with us. Come and visit. Whatever. It it it it's not 269 00:17:02.725 --> 00:17:06.345 a you say, you're not trying to instruct people, 270 00:17:06.645 --> 00:17:10.325 but just Yeah. Exemplify being a good 271 00:17:10.325 --> 00:17:13.760 human. We we don't tell them that my religion is superior to 272 00:17:13.760 --> 00:17:16.580 yours. We never say that. 273 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:21.119 We always accept that there must be something good if you're following in 274 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:24.105 your religion. I would love to understand that. 275 00:17:25.304 --> 00:17:29.145 I have studied in a Christian school, but then that was my way 276 00:17:29.145 --> 00:17:32.525 of getting exposed to that particular 277 00:17:32.585 --> 00:17:36.184 community. And it never interfered 278 00:17:36.184 --> 00:17:39.690 with my belief. And being a military man, I 279 00:17:39.690 --> 00:17:43.290 understand one thing, Joanne, and that is the religion of my 280 00:17:43.290 --> 00:17:47.050 troops is my religion. I do not own my religion 281 00:17:47.050 --> 00:17:50.490 or I do not wear my religion on my shoulders. I 282 00:17:50.490 --> 00:17:53.995 always follow the faith that my soldiers 283 00:17:54.054 --> 00:17:57.674 follow because that is something that binds us together. 284 00:17:58.054 --> 00:18:01.895 So if I happen to command a Muslim unit, then 285 00:18:01.895 --> 00:18:05.580 I will read namaz with them. I will not shy away from doing it. 286 00:18:05.820 --> 00:18:09.600 I will not say that. No, this is not right. Or this is not correct. 287 00:18:10.700 --> 00:18:14.299 Or they are infidels. No, I will follow whatever, 288 00:18:14.299 --> 00:18:17.679 because my ultimate goal is to bind 289 00:18:18.140 --> 00:18:21.715 with my people and face the common 290 00:18:21.715 --> 00:18:25.475 challenge that is there in front of us. But when 291 00:18:25.475 --> 00:18:29.235 it comes to me praying to the God in 292 00:18:29.235 --> 00:18:33.075 my own private space, then I'm free to do whatever I feel like. I think 293 00:18:33.075 --> 00:18:36.820 that your your leadership mantra that you've just explained in there is 294 00:18:36.820 --> 00:18:40.180 is very powerful. Too often, we find leaders want 295 00:18:40.180 --> 00:18:43.540 to dictate the culture of 296 00:18:43.540 --> 00:18:47.220 how their their team should be. And what you're 297 00:18:47.220 --> 00:18:51.025 doing is advocating the leader adapting to the culture 298 00:18:52.045 --> 00:18:55.805 of the team and enriching that rather than dictating 299 00:18:55.805 --> 00:18:59.565 that. You know, there is always a resistance to change, and 300 00:18:59.565 --> 00:19:03.350 there is a management theory about it. Why I'm 301 00:19:03.350 --> 00:19:07.110 talking about which is the bigger force out here. It is the culture 302 00:19:07.110 --> 00:19:10.710 which is already prevailing. So as a leader, you are 303 00:19:10.710 --> 00:19:14.090 1. As officers, you are just a handful, 304 00:19:14.710 --> 00:19:18.554 but your soldiers are far too many. So what is important is 305 00:19:18.554 --> 00:19:22.335 that I understand where the faith of my soldiers 306 00:19:22.554 --> 00:19:26.395 lie. And it is in the most 307 00:19:26.395 --> 00:19:29.915 difficult circumstances I have seen that it is this 308 00:19:29.915 --> 00:19:33.720 faith which helps you come back from 309 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:37.560 the brink of defeat just by believing in 310 00:19:37.560 --> 00:19:41.240 that faith, by holding on to that faith, which is not 311 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.700 just by held by a thin hair. And 312 00:19:45.135 --> 00:19:48.595 that is that can change the way we look at 313 00:19:48.735 --> 00:19:52.575 life and death. We look at success and defeat, and 314 00:19:52.575 --> 00:19:56.175 it is so important for us to understand that ultimately, what is 315 00:19:56.175 --> 00:19:59.870 important for me is that my team, our purpose 316 00:19:59.870 --> 00:20:03.170 should win. And as long as that purpose is for the larger 317 00:20:03.470 --> 00:20:06.990 good of the organization nation and not for the 318 00:20:06.990 --> 00:20:10.450 selfish ulterior motives, it's always 319 00:20:10.955 --> 00:20:14.795 superior to any other force. You you mentioned you're a military man, and we've 320 00:20:14.795 --> 00:20:18.095 called this episode, the battlefield to boardroom. 321 00:20:18.955 --> 00:20:22.475 What got you into the military originally? And what what were you doing? What was 322 00:20:22.475 --> 00:20:25.100 your trade or profession? Okay. So 323 00:20:26.280 --> 00:20:29.500 I was a hotelier. I did my hotel management 324 00:20:30.280 --> 00:20:34.120 and I was working in a luxury hotel. And while I was 325 00:20:34.120 --> 00:20:37.774 going around this hotel business, I was a sales executive. 326 00:20:37.995 --> 00:20:41.674 I used to sell my property and interact with big business 327 00:20:41.674 --> 00:20:45.355 houses, tell them that why they should come. And, Jun, if 328 00:20:45.355 --> 00:20:48.875 we go back 35 years in time, hotel 329 00:20:48.875 --> 00:20:52.450 industry was not everyone's 330 00:20:52.450 --> 00:20:56.130 cup of tea. It was a privilege of very 331 00:20:56.130 --> 00:20:59.650 few and 80% of the people who were 332 00:20:59.650 --> 00:21:03.490 using 5 star hotels, luxury hotels, they 333 00:21:03.490 --> 00:21:05.910 were from very affluent backgrounds. 334 00:21:07.125 --> 00:21:10.645 And the corporates used to frequent these 335 00:21:10.645 --> 00:21:12.905 hotels and getting them on board, 336 00:21:14.165 --> 00:21:17.765 staying in a hotel where you're, you would be 337 00:21:17.765 --> 00:21:21.465 charging them know about $100 a night. Those days 338 00:21:22.120 --> 00:21:25.880 was a big ask. So you can imagine that while doing all these 339 00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:29.720 things and being successful. Lot of time we used to 340 00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:33.480 have internal discussion and, I was a little bit of a gymming kind of 341 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:36.760 a guy. Not too much into gymming, but I had a good built and other 342 00:21:36.760 --> 00:21:39.985 things. I used to play a lot of sports, football, especially. 343 00:21:40.684 --> 00:21:44.065 So my colleagues used to say that, why don't you join army? 344 00:21:45.405 --> 00:21:48.925 So that propelled me to appear for the most 345 00:21:48.925 --> 00:21:52.429 difficult exam. That is the Union Public Service 346 00:21:52.429 --> 00:21:55.950 Commission exam. And I did not prepare for it. I just 347 00:21:55.950 --> 00:21:59.549 went applied for it. And during my, I would 348 00:21:59.549 --> 00:22:03.090 say I took a vacation. I took leave. 349 00:22:03.149 --> 00:22:06.565 I went on the weekend. I appeared for that exam. 350 00:22:06.705 --> 00:22:10.225 Luckily, I got through. And then I cleared the most 351 00:22:10.225 --> 00:22:13.825 difficult part of the selection process that is called 352 00:22:13.825 --> 00:22:17.424 as SSB. SSB stands for service selection 353 00:22:17.424 --> 00:22:20.490 board, and that is considered to be the toughest 354 00:22:21.270 --> 00:22:25.110 psychological, physical, and a mental challenge that one has to go 355 00:22:25.110 --> 00:22:28.790 through. And if you make it there, then in 356 00:22:28.790 --> 00:22:32.554 fact, most of the corporates, you'll find it that Deloitte, the big 357 00:22:32.554 --> 00:22:36.394 fours, they take, veterans directly into 358 00:22:36.394 --> 00:22:39.835 their streams. They don't go through multiple levels of 359 00:22:39.835 --> 00:22:43.674 interviews. Why? Because they have already gone through that kind of 360 00:22:43.674 --> 00:22:47.160 thing when they were inducted into the 361 00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:51.000 army or the armed forces. So I went through that. I 362 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:54.780 think that was the best decision that I took because it opened 363 00:22:55.320 --> 00:22:58.775 up vistas of opportunity. I could play 364 00:22:58.775 --> 00:23:02.615 sports. I could get into adventure. I could fire. 365 00:23:02.615 --> 00:23:06.455 I could skid. It means you ask me, I, you could 366 00:23:06.455 --> 00:23:10.155 do anything. The sky was the limit, whatever you wanted to follow 367 00:23:10.590 --> 00:23:14.270 your dream, you could do it there. You wanted to be a 368 00:23:14.270 --> 00:23:18.030 sailor. You wanted to navigate the world. You wanted to swim 369 00:23:18.030 --> 00:23:21.630 across the English Channel. Means you just have to opt for 370 00:23:21.630 --> 00:23:25.335 it. And then you realize that 371 00:23:27.075 --> 00:23:30.695 most of the time, we are limited 372 00:23:31.795 --> 00:23:35.395 in our expression of things because of our limiting 373 00:23:35.395 --> 00:23:39.150 beliefs. And that was the big game 374 00:23:39.150 --> 00:23:42.610 changer. And when I got injured, when I was mortally wounded, 375 00:23:43.550 --> 00:23:47.309 I realized that how life passes through you. 376 00:23:47.309 --> 00:23:51.150 And I was a youngster. I was just about in my mid 377 00:23:51.150 --> 00:23:54.405 twenties. So it had a very profound 378 00:23:54.785 --> 00:23:58.625 effect on me. And thereafter I realized that 379 00:23:58.625 --> 00:24:01.685 I have to do something meaningful. So 380 00:24:02.225 --> 00:24:05.909 obviously when you come back from such encounters for good or for 381 00:24:05.909 --> 00:24:09.669 the bad, you change. I take it that I probably 382 00:24:09.669 --> 00:24:13.110 changed for the good because my outlook towards 383 00:24:13.110 --> 00:24:16.549 life changed a lot. I became more 384 00:24:16.549 --> 00:24:20.149 understanding, more empathetic, more relatable to 385 00:24:20.149 --> 00:24:23.585 people because I had seen that what happens when 386 00:24:23.805 --> 00:24:27.565 you are very coarse in your dealing with people. You're very selfish 387 00:24:27.565 --> 00:24:31.245 in your dealing with people. You're very, very limited in your 388 00:24:31.245 --> 00:24:35.090 outlook when dealing with people. You're always eyeing them with suspicion 389 00:24:35.550 --> 00:24:39.330 that probably they may be lying. What if they are not lying and they're 390 00:24:40.110 --> 00:24:43.950 asking you the right thing? But then I do not have any 391 00:24:43.950 --> 00:24:47.605 ability to measure that. My only 392 00:24:47.605 --> 00:24:51.284 ability is to give them an opportunity and prove themselves 393 00:24:51.284 --> 00:24:54.885 wrong. So I tried doing that. And over a 394 00:24:54.885 --> 00:24:58.184 period of time, you have a spoken reputation that this particular 395 00:24:58.245 --> 00:25:01.950 officer genuinely helps people. So my soldiers, 396 00:25:01.950 --> 00:25:05.630 they stopped lying to me when it came to applying for leave and all those 397 00:25:05.630 --> 00:25:09.170 things. This started in fact, when I volunteered 398 00:25:09.310 --> 00:25:12.990 for a difficult operation and I went to my Pelton and I said 399 00:25:12.990 --> 00:25:16.545 that I wanted these many people who could volunteer for a 400 00:25:16.545 --> 00:25:19.925 small team operation, I was so blessed 401 00:25:20.385 --> 00:25:24.085