WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.680 --> 00:00:11.505 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for 2 00:00:11.545 --> 00:00:15.145 bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 3 00:00:15.225 --> 00:00:18.665 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 4 00:00:18.705 --> 00:00:21.825 inclusion, belonging and societal 5 00:00:21.905 --> 00:00:25.737 transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a 6 00:00:25.761 --> 00:00:29.593 world? Remember, everyone not only belongs, but thrives. 7 00:00:29.729 --> 00:00:33.265 You're not alone. Join me as we uncover 8 00:00:33.345 --> 00:00:36.865 the unseen, challenge the status quo and 9 00:00:36.905 --> 00:00:40.601 share stories that resonate deep within. Ready 10 00:00:40.633 --> 00:00:44.121 to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or 11 00:00:44.153 --> 00:00:47.105 winding down after a long day, let's connect, 12 00:00:47.265 --> 00:00:50.645 reflect and inspire action together. 13 00:00:51.025 --> 00:00:54.839 Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out 14 00:00:54.887 --> 00:00:55.167 to 15 00:00:55.231 --> 00:00:58.935 jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 16 00:00:59.095 --> 00:01:02.835 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 17 00:01:03.375 --> 00:01:07.215 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 18 00:01:07.255 --> 00:01:10.231 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion 19 00:01:10.303 --> 00:01:11.155 Bites. 20 00:01:14.535 --> 00:01:18.035 And today is episode 145 21 00:01:18.595 --> 00:01:20.975 with the title Genuine Stories, 22 00:01:21.595 --> 00:01:25.259 Empowered Connections. And I have the absolute 23 00:01:25.307 --> 00:01:29.131 honour and privilege to welcome Samta Datta. Sam is 24 00:01:29.163 --> 00:01:31.995 a brand marketing consultant who uncovers 25 00:01:32.115 --> 00:01:35.659 authenticity and amplifies diverse voices, 26 00:01:35.827 --> 00:01:39.475 helping individuals and brands shine by telling 27 00:01:39.515 --> 00:01:43.275 their unique, impactful stories. When I asked 28 00:01:43.315 --> 00:01:47.121 Sam to describe her superpower, she said that it is making 29 00:01:47.193 --> 00:01:50.785 connections, whether it's between people and their 30 00:01:50.825 --> 00:01:54.561 true selves or between a brand and 31 00:01:54.593 --> 00:01:57.205 its audience. Sam, welcome to the show. 32 00:01:58.185 --> 00:02:01.753 Thank you so much. That's lovely. Lovely to be here 33 00:02:01.809 --> 00:02:05.085 talking to you, Joanne. Pleasure. I understand you're 34 00:02:05.665 --> 00:02:09.145 from Mumbai in India. Yes, I 35 00:02:09.185 --> 00:02:13.001 am, very much. Have you been here or are you planning to come here 36 00:02:13.033 --> 00:02:16.829 anytime soon? I've never been to India, but every time 37 00:02:16.877 --> 00:02:20.413 I talk to somebody, they say, you must come. So I've got plenty 38 00:02:20.469 --> 00:02:24.181 of invites to meet for meals, coffees and give me some sightseeing. So, 39 00:02:24.213 --> 00:02:27.989 yeah, I will come to India one day, definitely. Yeah. Hopefully, 40 00:02:28.077 --> 00:02:31.533 yeah, hopefully, yeah, hopefully. Very soon, Very soon. Yeah, very soon. Very soon. 41 00:02:31.589 --> 00:02:35.413 Yeah. I'm just looking for an invite that's going to pay me, to be 42 00:02:35.429 --> 00:02:39.165 honest. That'd be the real. If there's a conference or a speaking opportunity 43 00:02:39.205 --> 00:02:41.939 that someone's going to pay for my plane ticket, I'd love to come, but anyway, 44 00:02:41.987 --> 00:02:45.779 I will come regardless at some point. So, Sam, let's find out a bit 45 00:02:45.787 --> 00:02:49.403 more about you. So Genuine Stories empower connections. Where did that come 46 00:02:49.419 --> 00:02:53.099 from? That came from my 47 00:02:53.147 --> 00:02:56.883 entire experience of working in the world and 48 00:02:56.979 --> 00:03:00.707 on myself. Yeah, I mean, as I. As I 49 00:03:00.731 --> 00:03:04.571 was working over the number of years that I have on the brands that 50 00:03:04.603 --> 00:03:07.615 I have, I think one thing that I have collected 51 00:03:08.355 --> 00:03:11.803 beyond the experience of what you do as your 52 00:03:11.859 --> 00:03:15.235 job is connecting with People understanding them, 53 00:03:15.315 --> 00:03:18.715 understanding their insights, their 54 00:03:18.795 --> 00:03:22.539 pain points, their passion points. And from there, 55 00:03:22.587 --> 00:03:26.115 I realise at the end of it, no matter how much knowledge you 56 00:03:26.155 --> 00:03:29.787 have, how much value you have to offer, if you're 57 00:03:29.811 --> 00:03:33.619 not able to connect from that, you know, with 58 00:03:33.667 --> 00:03:36.255 that person, nothing that you have 59 00:03:37.525 --> 00:03:41.261 is appealing. So for me, connections are 60 00:03:41.293 --> 00:03:45.141 a very, very important part of how we exist and coexist in the world. 61 00:03:45.213 --> 00:03:48.425 And that connection begins with connecting with self. 62 00:03:49.045 --> 00:03:52.741 So, yeah, as a brand person, yes, that's something that I do 63 00:03:52.773 --> 00:03:56.165 as my day job, but the real job is 64 00:03:56.325 --> 00:03:59.997 to connect, to connect from oneself and to connect with 65 00:04:00.021 --> 00:04:03.843 others. Connecting is a very human thing, isn't it? 66 00:04:03.989 --> 00:04:07.727 It is. There's absolutely we going back in time, back 67 00:04:07.751 --> 00:04:11.183 to our prehistoric, our Neanderthal, the evolution of the human 68 00:04:11.239 --> 00:04:14.647 race. We thrive through building connections. We're not a 69 00:04:14.671 --> 00:04:18.271 loner species, are we? We need company, we need to meet with 70 00:04:18.303 --> 00:04:22.023 people. We are tribal by very instinctive 71 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:25.847 nature of ours. And I think that gives us a sense of security. 72 00:04:25.951 --> 00:04:29.639 Connections give us a sense of security and is a part of 73 00:04:29.687 --> 00:04:33.069 our psychological makeup. So it 74 00:04:33.117 --> 00:04:36.425 indeed is something that we, we thrive in. 75 00:04:36.725 --> 00:04:40.357 So connecting is very, very important. And that's why, you know, if you see all 76 00:04:40.381 --> 00:04:43.917 around the world, the institutions that thrive are 77 00:04:43.981 --> 00:04:47.749 based on connection. So, I mean, that's. 78 00:04:47.837 --> 00:04:51.613 And you know, in. Even in my experience, Jo, what I've learned is, you 79 00:04:51.629 --> 00:04:55.165 know, when you connect, whether it is brand or whether it is people or whether 80 00:04:55.205 --> 00:04:58.923 it is strengths, that's when you really grow. If you're 81 00:04:58.939 --> 00:05:02.555 not able to connect, you are not able to grow, you know, 82 00:05:02.595 --> 00:05:05.735 so connection is very, very important to the progress 83 00:05:06.115 --> 00:05:09.851 of anything. Of course, we all went through that Covid 84 00:05:10.003 --> 00:05:13.835 time several years ago where the way we connected 85 00:05:13.995 --> 00:05:17.739 changed overnight, didn't it? We were, we were living our lives 86 00:05:17.787 --> 00:05:21.603 and suddenly the rules changed. Even for you. No 87 00:05:21.619 --> 00:05:24.415 matter where you were in the world, everybody was affected somehow. 88 00:05:25.175 --> 00:05:28.951 Yeah, yeah, it is, it is. And it kind of, you know, it's a weird 89 00:05:28.983 --> 00:05:32.791 thing because we were so isolated, the desire or the 90 00:05:32.863 --> 00:05:36.695 pull to connect was much more deeper. That's when, you know, 91 00:05:36.815 --> 00:05:40.431 if you see how the digital wound really 92 00:05:40.503 --> 00:05:44.263 happened, happened in Covid and if you were actually seeing, you 93 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:47.711 know, the travel industry kind of going off the charts 94 00:05:47.783 --> 00:05:51.611 today, it is because of COVID because, you know, people 95 00:05:51.643 --> 00:05:54.323 are like, there is one life to live and we need to live it and 96 00:05:54.339 --> 00:05:58.179 we need to experience everything. So let's travel, let's do everything. So, 97 00:05:58.227 --> 00:06:01.947 you know, that that entire formal fear of missing out, all 98 00:06:01.971 --> 00:06:05.763 those, those basic human needs are kind of at 99 00:06:05.779 --> 00:06:09.379 the forefront of our existence today because of the deep 100 00:06:09.427 --> 00:06:13.139 isolation that we. We all kind of encountered in Covid. And the fear 101 00:06:13.187 --> 00:06:16.611 of survival linked with very much the fear of 102 00:06:16.643 --> 00:06:20.451 survival because in its very nature, Covid 103 00:06:20.523 --> 00:06:24.055 was so isolating. Yeah, we changed the way 104 00:06:24.475 --> 00:06:28.307 we interacted. We went from being hugging and 105 00:06:28.371 --> 00:06:31.939 shaking hands and kissing each other to having Zoom or 106 00:06:31.987 --> 00:06:35.171 teams or Google Meets. We went online. We connected 107 00:06:35.243 --> 00:06:38.883 differently. And I think we had to learn how to fill 108 00:06:38.939 --> 00:06:42.651 the energy between us differently as well. Indeed. Absolutely. We had 109 00:06:42.683 --> 00:06:46.477 to. We had to kind of like learn and figure out how do 110 00:06:46.501 --> 00:06:49.685 we. How do we make sense of this new world that we are 111 00:06:49.765 --> 00:06:53.461 encountered with? How do we. How do we engage here? And while 112 00:06:53.493 --> 00:06:56.645 we all. I mean, bravo to. To all. All of our 113 00:06:56.685 --> 00:07:00.357 adaptable skills that we. We kind of moved in very 114 00:07:00.421 --> 00:07:04.253 fast on that one. But it kind of also gave rise to a lot 115 00:07:04.269 --> 00:07:08.109 of mental issues because connection is so deeply 116 00:07:08.157 --> 00:07:11.935 linked to our psychological safety that. That, 117 00:07:12.095 --> 00:07:15.687 you know, the way the mental issues came up after that is 118 00:07:15.751 --> 00:07:19.335 unprecedented. So, yeah, you know, that's. That's also something that 119 00:07:19.415 --> 00:07:23.207 I have really seen at our end of the world that, 120 00:07:23.231 --> 00:07:26.967 you know, a lot of mental issues kind of came up during and after Covid 121 00:07:27.151 --> 00:07:30.875 because of the acute isolation and the acute way of. 122 00:07:31.215 --> 00:07:34.863 Because digital connection, no matter how much connecting it is, it is 123 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:38.615 not tactical by nature. So how the tr. How the energy kind of 124 00:07:38.655 --> 00:07:42.369 transcends here is much different than how the energy transcends when 125 00:07:42.377 --> 00:07:45.641 you meet somebody in flesh and flesh and blood. 126 00:07:45.713 --> 00:07:49.521 So, yeah, to be adapting to that, it did have a kind of 127 00:07:49.553 --> 00:07:53.329 a deep impact on people. And also it gave rise 128 00:07:53.377 --> 00:07:57.017 to the entire, I think, the pet industry, 129 00:07:57.121 --> 00:08:00.953 globally, you know, the connections. We were so. We 130 00:08:00.969 --> 00:08:04.761 were so deeply longing for connection that, you know, we 131 00:08:04.793 --> 00:08:08.313 went beyond the human connection and the pets and the 132 00:08:08.409 --> 00:08:12.177 entire industry kind of boomed during that time. Yeah, I 133 00:08:12.201 --> 00:08:15.761 never realised. I suppose for most of my life I didn't realise just 134 00:08:15.793 --> 00:08:19.641 the power of touch. It really occurred to me in the last, 135 00:08:19.713 --> 00:08:23.305 I think probably six to 12 months that I started 136 00:08:23.385 --> 00:08:27.045 really feeling the energy transfer both ways. 137 00:08:27.505 --> 00:08:30.681 Just by holding somebody, by hugging somebody, by being close to 138 00:08:30.713 --> 00:08:34.506 somebody. It's not about the words, it's not about. It's 139 00:08:34.530 --> 00:08:37.974 not sexual or anything like that. It's. It's a pure energy transfer 140 00:08:38.274 --> 00:08:42.122 where that warmth and the two spirits almost combine in that 141 00:08:42.178 --> 00:08:46.010 energy. And I. I find now that I can be silent. 142 00:08:46.042 --> 00:08:49.378 I can be quiet and start to feel down, but as soon as I maybe 143 00:08:49.426 --> 00:08:53.018 haunt my wife or give my daughter a hug, I suddenly feel that 144 00:08:53.066 --> 00:08:56.882 invigoration coming over me where that exchange of energy has 145 00:08:57.018 --> 00:09:00.499 made all the difference. Beautifully put. Like, beautifully put 146 00:09:00.547 --> 00:09:04.347 because it is therapeutic in nature, come to think of it. If 147 00:09:04.371 --> 00:09:08.195 we are, you know, how we are created 148 00:09:08.235 --> 00:09:11.295 in the womb and how we kind of, 149 00:09:11.915 --> 00:09:15.459 you know, cascade down to the life that we have today, from that 150 00:09:15.507 --> 00:09:19.067 point is all about, is all about touch and 151 00:09:19.091 --> 00:09:22.787 nurture and it is all about that energy exchange. And no matter where we 152 00:09:22.811 --> 00:09:26.573 are, the closest we feel to safety is our mothers, 153 00:09:26.629 --> 00:09:30.357 right? Or anything. Mother Nature. That's why we call it Mother 154 00:09:30.421 --> 00:09:34.261 Nature. Because the minute you start connecting back to your roots, that's where 155 00:09:34.293 --> 00:09:37.909 your energy transfers are the highest and, you know, you feel 156 00:09:37.957 --> 00:09:41.749 nourished the most. So in that sense, you're absolutely right. 157 00:09:41.797 --> 00:09:45.541 The way energy kind of transcends, you know, 158 00:09:45.653 --> 00:09:48.853 it is, it is so. It is 159 00:09:48.909 --> 00:09:52.663 so lucid in a certain 160 00:09:52.719 --> 00:09:56.035 way also, come to think of it. Right, because, 161 00:09:57.375 --> 00:10:01.087 you know, we thrive on it. It's so much silent also, 162 00:10:01.151 --> 00:10:04.583 like you said, you don't need to speak a word with that connection. You know, 163 00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:07.967 it just kind of open, opens you up in that sense. So. 164 00:10:08.031 --> 00:10:11.847 Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right there. You 165 00:10:11.871 --> 00:10:15.355 mentioned psychological safety. And I, I sometimes think about, 166 00:10:16.015 --> 00:10:19.835 or I think about psychological safety. It's, can I trust me 167 00:10:20.335 --> 00:10:23.855 with you? Are you going to listen to me? Are you going to respect me? 168 00:10:23.895 --> 00:10:26.679 Are you going to amplify me? Are you going to make me feel good about 169 00:10:26.727 --> 00:10:30.543 myself? Or am I going to be damaged by talking to 170 00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:34.235 you, by being with you or being around you? So I think 171 00:10:34.855 --> 00:10:38.671 a lot of this comes subliminally, so you don't. You're not 172 00:10:38.703 --> 00:10:42.151 always aware of it. You feel someone's energy, you feel someone's 173 00:10:42.223 --> 00:10:45.967 passion and you can just tell when you're interacting with somebody, whether they're 174 00:10:45.991 --> 00:10:49.793 a you person or they're not a you person. So I always find it's very, 175 00:10:49.849 --> 00:10:53.561 very important when you're trying to create space for people to 176 00:10:53.593 --> 00:10:57.297 create a positive energy space or a positive vibe space, so that when 177 00:10:57.321 --> 00:11:00.585 we are interacting, I know that you can trust me and I know you could. 178 00:11:00.625 --> 00:11:04.385 I could, I can trust you in that conversation. You know, the strange part here 179 00:11:04.425 --> 00:11:08.241 is I used to think that way. Exactly. And while 180 00:11:08.313 --> 00:11:11.685 that is partly true, and then while that is 181 00:11:12.065 --> 00:11:15.583 certainly important for us to feel and that is, 182 00:11:15.729 --> 00:11:19.419 you know, implicit in the way we behave and how we trust, if you 183 00:11:19.467 --> 00:11:22.819 start living a little more intentional life, you 184 00:11:22.867 --> 00:11:26.603 realise maybe, you know, you. You have to do that in a 185 00:11:26.619 --> 00:11:30.179 meditative state, that maybe you will never find that kind of hundred 186 00:11:30.227 --> 00:11:33.795 percent, you know, Psychological safety in 187 00:11:33.835 --> 00:11:37.335 most people. But as long as you can deal with, 188 00:11:37.835 --> 00:11:41.595 okay, I'm not certainly a hundred percent psychologically safe in this 189 00:11:41.635 --> 00:11:45.485 space, but if I, I know how to get around this, 190 00:11:46.185 --> 00:11:49.993 you'll be able to open up more. Because what happens is, 191 00:11:50.049 --> 00:11:53.265 you know, if you keep looking for psychological safety in 192 00:11:53.345 --> 00:11:56.985 environments, chances are you're not going to find much of it. Because we 193 00:11:57.025 --> 00:12:00.505 all get defensive, right? And after a point we're all very 194 00:12:00.545 --> 00:12:04.297 guarded and defensive. We, you know, in, in, in, in the, in the 195 00:12:04.321 --> 00:12:07.961 haste of guarding our own self, sometimes we are not able to be providers or 196 00:12:07.993 --> 00:12:11.687 holding that space, as you said. But, you know, if we move 197 00:12:11.751 --> 00:12:15.375 over from that point to say, okay, even if I'm not 100% safe 198 00:12:15.455 --> 00:12:19.223 in this environment, in this, I know how to get around it and 199 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:22.247 live a little more intentionally with our own 200 00:12:22.311 --> 00:12:26.047 energies powering us, I think we can move past 201 00:12:26.111 --> 00:12:29.831 that. But you're right for the initial bit, you know, you 202 00:12:29.863 --> 00:12:32.983 know, whether that is your person or not, you know, whether you'll be able to 203 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:36.607 hold that conversation or not, or whether how much you need to open or 204 00:12:36.631 --> 00:12:39.919 not and, you know, how much can you move forward with that person or that 205 00:12:39.967 --> 00:12:43.323 that's very, you know, intuitive in all of us and we form 206 00:12:43.379 --> 00:12:47.179 connections basis that a lot of the work that I've done, you 207 00:12:47.187 --> 00:12:50.971 know, with consumer work that I've done where we kind of try to 208 00:12:51.003 --> 00:12:53.923 find people's security, desires, 209 00:12:54.099 --> 00:12:57.787 aspirations for the products, for the lives that they lead in, 210 00:12:57.931 --> 00:13:01.015 um, you know, a lot of times we realise that 211 00:13:01.995 --> 00:13:05.627 it is there, there are very few basic human emotions 212 00:13:05.811 --> 00:13:09.547 that most, I would say, businesses or brands 213 00:13:09.611 --> 00:13:13.267 are relying on and building on. You 214 00:13:13.291 --> 00:13:16.635 know, while we do a lot of consumer work, we just realise that 215 00:13:16.755 --> 00:13:20.347 human insights and the fundamental truths remains so 216 00:13:20.411 --> 00:13:24.055 strongly ingrained across geographies that 217 00:13:24.515 --> 00:13:27.935 it's very difficult to kind of go past that. 218 00:13:28.235 --> 00:13:31.375 It is very difficult. So, yeah, I mean, there is a dichotomy 219 00:13:31.955 --> 00:13:35.641 in our existence in that sense that, you know, it is 220 00:13:35.673 --> 00:13:39.265 so deeply ingrained, while at the same time we are always pushing 221 00:13:39.305 --> 00:13:43.137 ourselves to be more powerful and live a very, very intentional life. 222 00:13:43.201 --> 00:13:46.881 Yeah, you mentioned brand there. And when we talk about, when we think about brand, 223 00:13:46.913 --> 00:13:50.481 we often think about a company or an organisation or a 224 00:13:50.513 --> 00:13:53.937 product. But we have our own brand as well, don't we? Our own 225 00:13:54.001 --> 00:13:57.473 values. Because brand comes down to values. It's how we align 226 00:13:57.649 --> 00:14:01.073 what. It's the things that turn people on or turn people off, all those kind 227 00:14:01.089 --> 00:14:04.449 of. And that has to be authentic. I mean, we mentioned authenticity 228 00:14:04.577 --> 00:14:08.281 already because people could tell when you as a 229 00:14:08.313 --> 00:14:10.885 person or you as a brand or you as an organisation 230 00:14:11.705 --> 00:14:15.449 are not authentic, you're pretending you're putting 231 00:14:15.497 --> 00:14:19.345 messaging out there that doesn't align. And that's worse than putting no 232 00:14:19.385 --> 00:14:23.057 brand out at all, being insincere. True, true, 233 00:14:23.241 --> 00:14:26.809 true. Yeah. You know, let me take a step 234 00:14:26.857 --> 00:14:29.445 back and kind of 235 00:14:31.705 --> 00:14:35.505 give my, a little view on that. You know, when, when we 236 00:14:35.545 --> 00:14:38.765 use the term brand, somehow it is a very, 237 00:14:39.465 --> 00:14:43.193 you know, commoditizing of a certain thing 238 00:14:43.249 --> 00:14:46.857 and ourselves also, you know, I mean, the whole, the 239 00:14:46.881 --> 00:14:50.369 whole, right now, the whole jingle about 240 00:14:50.497 --> 00:14:54.137 your personal brand. And while I'm totally on to have a 241 00:14:54.161 --> 00:14:57.997 certain sense of self and identity there and authenticity there, when 242 00:14:58.021 --> 00:15:01.461 we use the term brand, it is, it is commoditizing in a certain 243 00:15:01.533 --> 00:15:05.333 way. But how I look at it, you know, 244 00:15:05.389 --> 00:15:09.181 is that you are a strong brand 245 00:15:09.293 --> 00:15:13.053 or you are a strong identity in reflection to others, 246 00:15:13.189 --> 00:15:16.877 actually are more of yourself, you 247 00:15:16.901 --> 00:15:20.677 know, you are not a brand. Okay, if I work in personal branding, I 248 00:15:20.701 --> 00:15:24.037 can't say, okay, you know, oh, Jo, I love you. You know, tomorrow, let's make 249 00:15:24.061 --> 00:15:27.735 a brand out of you and let's polish this side of you and let's make, 250 00:15:27.815 --> 00:15:30.823 you know, give you five of these things to do and then, you know, you 251 00:15:30.839 --> 00:15:34.591 will be an iconic brand and I'll make you an opera. 252 00:15:34.703 --> 00:15:38.463 No, no, no, that, that's very inauthentic, right? 253 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:42.319 The space. Yes, please. Why not? Absolutely. But you 254 00:15:42.327 --> 00:15:46.047 know, that's very inauthentic. For, for me it is. When you 255 00:15:46.111 --> 00:15:49.399 become more of who you are, when you end up 256 00:15:49.447 --> 00:15:52.981 owning more of who you are, you are a 257 00:15:53.013 --> 00:15:56.677 stronger brand. And when you don't 258 00:15:56.781 --> 00:16:00.025 live by the judgement of being 259 00:16:01.125 --> 00:16:04.893 bought by people, you know, then that's when you are a 260 00:16:04.909 --> 00:16:08.589 stronger brand. So I think when, I mean, 261 00:16:08.717 --> 00:16:12.493 when I say, you know, helping people 262 00:16:12.549 --> 00:16:16.005 become a stronger brand, I mean helping people become 263 00:16:16.165 --> 00:16:19.639 a stronger sense, developing a stronger sense of 264 00:16:19.687 --> 00:16:23.287 self rather than, you know, giving them a playbook 265 00:16:23.351 --> 00:16:26.735 of saying, okay, this is how you need to be authentic, these are the five 266 00:16:26.775 --> 00:16:30.271 things you need to do. That's no matter how good they 267 00:16:30.303 --> 00:16:34.047 are, they are not authentic. If you just can own up 268 00:16:34.111 --> 00:16:37.655 your own unique strength, and I believe everybody has 269 00:16:37.695 --> 00:16:40.959 that, the more you own up, the more you 270 00:16:41.007 --> 00:16:44.711 shine. And let's not fix what's not 271 00:16:44.743 --> 00:16:48.411 broken, let's not try to be fitting in the world of. 272 00:16:48.483 --> 00:16:51.691 And painting a perfect picture. Owning up your more of 273 00:16:51.723 --> 00:16:55.035 yourself is becoming a true 274 00:16:55.075 --> 00:16:58.587 brand. That's my $0.02 there. Have you heard 275 00:16:58.611 --> 00:17:02.419 of the term catfishing or catfishing on social 276 00:17:02.467 --> 00:17:06.067 media? On dating profiles. Yes, yes, I have. 277 00:17:06.211 --> 00:17:09.555 What you're saying here is if you're not careful, what you end up doing is 278 00:17:09.595 --> 00:17:13.327 misrepresenting yourself either with a fake image, a fake 279 00:17:13.391 --> 00:17:17.199 Persona, fake personality, whatever it may be, which is effectively 280 00:17:17.367 --> 00:17:21.215 catfishing. When you meet me in person, I'm not the person you think 281 00:17:21.255 --> 00:17:25.071 I am from what you've seen already. So that, that's where the authenticity comes 282 00:17:25.103 --> 00:17:28.607 in. My online, my visible 283 00:17:28.671 --> 00:17:32.351 presence, my brand, if you like, aligns when you meet me as well. Because 284 00:17:32.423 --> 00:17:36.191 too often, I mean, I watch chat shows, movie stars, 285 00:17:36.223 --> 00:17:39.871 they come onto the. They come onto the chat show and you realise your hero, 286 00:17:39.943 --> 00:17:43.639 movie star isn't the person they vote the character they 287 00:17:43.687 --> 00:17:47.511 play. But that's how you see them as this character they play in the 288 00:17:47.543 --> 00:17:50.983 movie. Really, them as a human being have different 289 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:54.879 values, different beliefs. And so sometimes, if you're not careful, 290 00:17:55.007 --> 00:17:58.679 you live your public Persona without it truly being you. Oh, my God, 291 00:17:58.807 --> 00:18:02.463 you kind of nailed it. You really did nail it there. Because you know 292 00:18:02.479 --> 00:18:05.505 what the byproduct of 293 00:18:05.845 --> 00:18:09.613 creating a very strong quote unquote, 294 00:18:09.669 --> 00:18:13.101 personal brand or having a strong Persona or having a star 295 00:18:13.173 --> 00:18:16.509 quality to anybody for that matter, is that 296 00:18:16.597 --> 00:18:19.309 beyond that success or beyond that 297 00:18:19.397 --> 00:18:23.053 identity, you become a personality 298 00:18:23.149 --> 00:18:26.845 and you lose the person. Like you saying, 299 00:18:26.885 --> 00:18:30.485 catfishing, right? What happens is so many times you end up 300 00:18:30.565 --> 00:18:33.345 behaving like how you're supposed to behave 301 00:18:33.675 --> 00:18:37.099 versus owning up your authentic self. 302 00:18:37.187 --> 00:18:40.891 And, oh, my God, if you're successful at that, you will have to 303 00:18:40.923 --> 00:18:44.763 keep. You have to perpetually be on stage all the 304 00:18:44.779 --> 00:18:48.371 time. And that's. That's not good. I think we 305 00:18:48.403 --> 00:18:52.171 see famous people through history burning out. 306 00:18:52.243 --> 00:18:56.015 You know, go back to Elvis Presley, go back to 307 00:18:56.395 --> 00:18:59.917 all these big names through time that you think about all these people that 308 00:18:59.941 --> 00:19:03.317 have taken their own lives, they've had breakdowns, they've 309 00:19:03.461 --> 00:19:07.077 drugs and drink, alcohol, they're trying to 310 00:19:07.141 --> 00:19:10.893 keep themselves in their brand Persona and they need these 311 00:19:10.949 --> 00:19:14.629 drugs effectively to keep them there. Because it's unsustainable, 312 00:19:14.677 --> 00:19:18.425 isn't it? Exactly. Absolutely. You know, because 313 00:19:18.725 --> 00:19:22.493 at the end of the day, you know, that's why I have a 314 00:19:22.509 --> 00:19:25.997 little bit of a. I take it with a pinch of salt when I use 315 00:19:26.021 --> 00:19:29.849 the word personal branding. Because what you're trying to do is 316 00:19:29.937 --> 00:19:33.245 basically stitch together a mask for yourself 317 00:19:33.585 --> 00:19:37.361 that you need to hold on then and put on forever. And that's 318 00:19:37.473 --> 00:19:40.285 actually so counter 319 00:19:41.065 --> 00:19:44.817 to, you know, that's actually the opposite of what you're trying to 320 00:19:44.841 --> 00:19:48.641 do here. The idea is to own up a little more 321 00:19:48.673 --> 00:19:52.353 of yourself. The idea is to develop courage to be a 322 00:19:52.369 --> 00:19:55.755 little more of yourself, not to have the perfect 323 00:19:55.875 --> 00:19:59.451 couture and wearing it out. That's not the idea here. The 324 00:19:59.483 --> 00:20:03.251 idea here is to be a little more of who you are, allowing yourself 325 00:20:03.323 --> 00:20:07.083 a little air and time and space, because otherwise, how many, how 326 00:20:07.099 --> 00:20:10.811 many commodities can you really have? One would be plastering on an 327 00:20:10.843 --> 00:20:14.603 image and the other one and the. Then the other one. And how long can 328 00:20:14.619 --> 00:20:18.099 you keep up the show? Yeah, I've. I think, 329 00:20:18.147 --> 00:20:21.901 well, I've probably been through this evolution myself and 330 00:20:22.053 --> 00:20:25.725 I realised that it's important to just live one life. 331 00:20:25.885 --> 00:20:29.437 If you're trying to live two lives or you have to translate everything in your 332 00:20:29.461 --> 00:20:33.125 head. Yes. Who am I talking to? What story have I told in the 333 00:20:33.165 --> 00:20:36.821 past? How have I got a smile? How have I got to show up? And 334 00:20:36.933 --> 00:20:40.701 it becomes so exhausting. And when you let that go, life 335 00:20:40.733 --> 00:20:44.499 just becomes simpler. Just love me or hate me 336 00:20:44.677 --> 00:20:48.075 for who I am, not for who I'm pretending to be. 337 00:20:48.815 --> 00:20:52.415 True. True. And that's at. The journey begins with 338 00:20:52.455 --> 00:20:56.207 self. Here the journey begins with allowing yourself to 339 00:20:56.231 --> 00:20:59.959 own that up. Because as we evolve as humans, 340 00:21:00.127 --> 00:21:03.783 there will. There will be many, many aspects of ourselves that 341 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:07.319 we'll develop. And that could be leaving 342 00:21:07.367 --> 00:21:10.635 behind something and getting into something. 343 00:21:11.045 --> 00:21:14.837 And no matter how successful my past tense was at 344 00:21:14.861 --> 00:21:18.565 the end of it, it was a past tense. You know, you 345 00:21:18.605 --> 00:21:22.389 need to move forward and find the new you and then build 346 00:21:22.437 --> 00:21:26.125 that up. And that's the circle of life. Why do you think people 347 00:21:26.165 --> 00:21:29.905 are so scared or fearful 348 00:21:30.525 --> 00:21:34.373 about showing their true selves? Sometimes they think they're good 349 00:21:34.389 --> 00:21:37.215 enough. They don't think people are going to like them. Well, there a lot of 350 00:21:37.255 --> 00:21:41.103 reasons, I'm sure I. I don't see. A 351 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:44.871 lot of times when we are young, our sense of self is not developed and 352 00:21:44.903 --> 00:21:48.663 we see ourselves through other people's eyes, be it siblings 353 00:21:48.719 --> 00:21:52.399 and parents and. And grandparents and 354 00:21:52.527 --> 00:21:55.775 friends and crushes and boyfriends and 355 00:21:55.815 --> 00:21:58.315 girlfriends and that 356 00:21:58.855 --> 00:22:02.455 sometimes, you know, like I read somewhere, 357 00:22:02.535 --> 00:22:05.255 when you. When a parent is 358 00:22:06.275 --> 00:22:09.987 mean to a child, you know, knowingly or 359 00:22:10.011 --> 00:22:13.731 unknowingly, the child does not end 360 00:22:13.763 --> 00:22:17.499 up becoming mean to the parent. The child end 361 00:22:17.547 --> 00:22:20.859 up in hating themselves. So you're. If in your 362 00:22:20.907 --> 00:22:24.275 foundation, you've. You've 363 00:22:24.315 --> 00:22:28.035 had some experiences where you 364 00:22:28.075 --> 00:22:31.815 were criticised, you were not strong at that 365 00:22:31.855 --> 00:22:35.423 point to fight back, so you believed 366 00:22:35.479 --> 00:22:39.207 them and their vision of yourself and you started 367 00:22:39.351 --> 00:22:42.591 kind of cultivating that opinion and that hate for 368 00:22:42.623 --> 00:22:46.071 self while still loving the source 369 00:22:46.103 --> 00:22:49.951 of the hate or any kind 370 00:22:49.983 --> 00:22:53.767 of trauma that came in with that you know, but that 371 00:22:53.791 --> 00:22:57.521 has shaped most of us. And yeah, one has 372 00:22:57.553 --> 00:23:01.001 to kind of realise that, okay, this is the line and 373 00:23:01.033 --> 00:23:04.841 now I press the stop button and I reevaluate and 374 00:23:04.873 --> 00:23:08.377 recalibrate myself from here. Have you been through something similar 375 00:23:08.441 --> 00:23:11.725 yourself where you've had to discover who you. Are 376 00:23:12.665 --> 00:23:16.425 many times, many times over. I am still, I'm 377 00:23:16.465 --> 00:23:20.281 sure, doing that, you know, because I get 378 00:23:20.313 --> 00:23:24.137 very guarded and I don't allow much opinions to 379 00:23:24.161 --> 00:23:27.857 flow in. Yeah, I could be very. And certainly that takes 380 00:23:27.921 --> 00:23:31.041 that. I end up wasting a lot of time to let go of what needs 381 00:23:31.073 --> 00:23:34.881 to be and move on to the next because I'm 382 00:23:34.913 --> 00:23:38.617 somebody very, very. I would consider myself somebody very passionate. So 383 00:23:38.641 --> 00:23:42.369 I end up investing or over investing myself in building something up 384 00:23:42.417 --> 00:23:45.881 and then it is very difficult for me to leave that and move to the 385 00:23:45.913 --> 00:23:49.625 next and find light at the end of the tunnel as you move 386 00:23:49.665 --> 00:23:53.269 forward. So yeah, I struggle with that myself. What advice 387 00:23:53.377 --> 00:23:56.305 do you give yourself when you, when you feel yourself 388 00:23:57.405 --> 00:24:01.093 into this dead end, you know, going dead, going into this tunnel? How do 389 00:24:01.109 --> 00:24:04.893 you, how do you help yourself find the light? I'm a 390 00:24:04.909 --> 00:24:08.533 person of very strong faith, so that has 391 00:24:08.589 --> 00:24:12.285 really helped me over so many years. But I do, I 392 00:24:12.325 --> 00:24:16.069 do believe that nothing matters. Eventually nothing matters. I 393 00:24:16.077 --> 00:24:19.741 mean, whatever I'm building, whatever I'm doing, wherever I am, it's 394 00:24:19.773 --> 00:24:23.563 all a game. Nothing would really matter. So enjoy it. This 395 00:24:23.579 --> 00:24:27.179 is what I've, I've Learned like last 4 years. This is 396 00:24:27.347 --> 00:24:28.895 how I have kind of 397 00:24:30.875 --> 00:24:34.187 made it a little bit of my mantra that nothing really matters. So play it 398 00:24:34.211 --> 00:24:38.027 on, play it on the way you want to play it on because 399 00:24:38.091 --> 00:24:41.651 eventually, you know, in couple of years this will not make sense. 400 00:24:41.843 --> 00:24:45.219 Something else will become important and the priorities will keep 401 00:24:45.267 --> 00:24:49.093