Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for
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Joanne Lockwood: your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of
Joanne Lockwood: inclusion, belonging and societal
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Joanne Lockwood: ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion
Joanne Lockwood: Bites.
Joanne Lockwood: And today is episode 145
Joanne Lockwood: with the title Genuine Stories,
Joanne Lockwood: Empowered Connections. And I have the absolute
Joanne Lockwood: honour and privilege to welcome Samta Datta. Sam is
Joanne Lockwood: a brand marketing consultant who uncovers
Joanne Lockwood: authenticity and amplifies diverse voices,
Joanne Lockwood: helping individuals and brands shine by telling
Joanne Lockwood: their unique, impactful stories. When I asked
Joanne Lockwood: Sam to describe her superpower, she said that it is making
Joanne Lockwood: connections, whether it's between people and their
Joanne Lockwood: true selves or between a brand and
Joanne Lockwood: its audience. Sam, welcome to the show.
Samta Datta: Thank you so much. That's lovely. Lovely to be here
Samta Datta: talking to you, Joanne. Pleasure. I understand you're
Joanne Lockwood: from Mumbai in India. Yes, I
Samta Datta: am, very much. Have you been here or are you planning to come here
Samta Datta: anytime soon? I've never been to India, but every time
Joanne Lockwood: I talk to somebody, they say, you must come. So I've got plenty
Joanne Lockwood: of invites to meet for meals, coffees and give me some sightseeing. So,
Joanne Lockwood: yeah, I will come to India one day, definitely. Yeah. Hopefully,
Joanne Lockwood: yeah, hopefully, yeah, hopefully. Very soon, Very soon. Yeah, very soon. Very soon.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I'm just looking for an invite that's going to pay me, to be
Joanne Lockwood: honest. That'd be the real. If there's a conference or a speaking opportunity
Joanne Lockwood: that someone's going to pay for my plane ticket, I'd love to come, but anyway,
Joanne Lockwood: I will come regardless at some point. So, Sam, let's find out a bit
Joanne Lockwood: more about you. So Genuine Stories empower connections. Where did that come
Joanne Lockwood: from? That came from my
Samta Datta: entire experience of working in the world and
Samta Datta: on myself. Yeah, I mean, as I. As I
Samta Datta: was working over the number of years that I have on the brands that
Samta Datta: I have, I think one thing that I have collected
Samta Datta: beyond the experience of what you do as your
Samta Datta: job is connecting with People understanding them,
Samta Datta: understanding their insights, their
Samta Datta: pain points, their passion points. And from there,
Samta Datta: I realise at the end of it, no matter how much knowledge you
Samta Datta: have, how much value you have to offer, if you're
Samta Datta: not able to connect from that, you know, with
Samta Datta: that person, nothing that you have
Samta Datta: is appealing. So for me, connections are
Samta Datta: a very, very important part of how we exist and coexist in the world.
Samta Datta: And that connection begins with connecting with self.
Samta Datta: So, yeah, as a brand person, yes, that's something that I do
Samta Datta: as my day job, but the real job is
Samta Datta: to connect, to connect from oneself and to connect with
Samta Datta: others. Connecting is a very human thing, isn't it?
Samta Datta: It is. There's absolutely we going back in time, back
Joanne Lockwood: to our prehistoric, our Neanderthal, the evolution of the human
Joanne Lockwood: race. We thrive through building connections. We're not a
Joanne Lockwood: loner species, are we? We need company, we need to meet with
Joanne Lockwood: people. We are tribal by very instinctive
Samta Datta: nature of ours. And I think that gives us a sense of security.
Samta Datta: Connections give us a sense of security and is a part of
Samta Datta: our psychological makeup. So it
Samta Datta: indeed is something that we, we thrive in.
Samta Datta: So connecting is very, very important. And that's why, you know, if you see all
Samta Datta: around the world, the institutions that thrive are
Samta Datta: based on connection. So, I mean, that's.
Samta Datta: And you know, in. Even in my experience, Jo, what I've learned is, you
Samta Datta: know, when you connect, whether it is brand or whether it is people or whether
Samta Datta: it is strengths, that's when you really grow. If you're
Samta Datta: not able to connect, you are not able to grow, you know,
Samta Datta: so connection is very, very important to the progress
Samta Datta: of anything. Of course, we all went through that Covid
Joanne Lockwood: time several years ago where the way we connected
Joanne Lockwood: changed overnight, didn't it? We were, we were living our lives
Joanne Lockwood: and suddenly the rules changed. Even for you. No
Joanne Lockwood: matter where you were in the world, everybody was affected somehow.
Samta Datta: Yeah, yeah, it is, it is. And it kind of, you know, it's a weird
Samta Datta: thing because we were so isolated, the desire or the
Samta Datta: pull to connect was much more deeper. That's when, you know,
Samta Datta: if you see how the digital wound really
Samta Datta: happened, happened in Covid and if you were actually seeing, you
Samta Datta: know, the travel industry kind of going off the charts
Samta Datta: today, it is because of COVID because, you know, people
Samta Datta: are like, there is one life to live and we need to live it and
Samta Datta: we need to experience everything. So let's travel, let's do everything. So,
Samta Datta: you know, that that entire formal fear of missing out, all
Samta Datta: those, those basic human needs are kind of at
Samta Datta: the forefront of our existence today because of the deep
Samta Datta: isolation that we. We all kind of encountered in Covid. And the fear
Samta Datta: of survival linked with very much the fear of
Samta Datta: survival because in its very nature, Covid
Samta Datta: was so isolating. Yeah, we changed the way
Joanne Lockwood: we interacted. We went from being hugging and
Joanne Lockwood: shaking hands and kissing each other to having Zoom or
Joanne Lockwood: teams or Google Meets. We went online. We connected
Joanne Lockwood: differently. And I think we had to learn how to fill
Joanne Lockwood: the energy between us differently as well. Indeed. Absolutely. We had
Samta Datta: to. We had to kind of like learn and figure out how do
Samta Datta: we. How do we make sense of this new world that we are
Samta Datta: encountered with? How do we. How do we engage here? And while
Samta Datta: we all. I mean, bravo to. To all. All of our
Samta Datta: adaptable skills that we. We kind of moved in very
Samta Datta: fast on that one. But it kind of also gave rise to a lot
Samta Datta: of mental issues because connection is so deeply
Samta Datta: linked to our psychological safety that. That,
Samta Datta: you know, the way the mental issues came up after that is
Samta Datta: unprecedented. So, yeah, you know, that's. That's also something that
Samta Datta: I have really seen at our end of the world that,
Samta Datta: you know, a lot of mental issues kind of came up during and after Covid
Samta Datta: because of the acute isolation and the acute way of.
Samta Datta: Because digital connection, no matter how much connecting it is, it is
Samta Datta: not tactical by nature. So how the tr. How the energy kind of
Samta Datta: transcends here is much different than how the energy transcends when
Samta Datta: you meet somebody in flesh and flesh and blood.
Samta Datta: So, yeah, to be adapting to that, it did have a kind of
Samta Datta: a deep impact on people. And also it gave rise
Samta Datta: to the entire, I think, the pet industry,
Samta Datta: globally, you know, the connections. We were so. We
Samta Datta: were so deeply longing for connection that, you know, we
Samta Datta: went beyond the human connection and the pets and the
Samta Datta: entire industry kind of boomed during that time. Yeah, I
Joanne Lockwood: never realised. I suppose for most of my life I didn't realise just
Joanne Lockwood: the power of touch. It really occurred to me in the last,
Joanne Lockwood: I think probably six to 12 months that I started
Joanne Lockwood: really feeling the energy transfer both ways.
Joanne Lockwood: Just by holding somebody, by hugging somebody, by being close to
Joanne Lockwood: somebody. It's not about the words, it's not about. It's
Joanne Lockwood: not sexual or anything like that. It's. It's a pure energy transfer
Joanne Lockwood: where that warmth and the two spirits almost combine in that
Joanne Lockwood: energy. And I. I find now that I can be silent.
Joanne Lockwood: I can be quiet and start to feel down, but as soon as I maybe
Joanne Lockwood: haunt my wife or give my daughter a hug, I suddenly feel that
Joanne Lockwood: invigoration coming over me where that exchange of energy has
Joanne Lockwood: made all the difference. Beautifully put. Like, beautifully put
Samta Datta: because it is therapeutic in nature, come to think of it. If
Samta Datta: we are, you know, how we are created
Samta Datta: in the womb and how we kind of,
Samta Datta: you know, cascade down to the life that we have today, from that
Samta Datta: point is all about, is all about touch and
Samta Datta: nurture and it is all about that energy exchange. And no matter where we
Samta Datta: are, the closest we feel to safety is our mothers,
Samta Datta: right? Or anything. Mother Nature. That's why we call it Mother
Samta Datta: Nature. Because the minute you start connecting back to your roots, that's where
Samta Datta: your energy transfers are the highest and, you know, you feel
Samta Datta: nourished the most. So in that sense, you're absolutely right.
Samta Datta: The way energy kind of transcends, you know,
Samta Datta: it is, it is so. It is
Samta Datta: so lucid in a certain
Samta Datta: way also, come to think of it. Right, because,
Samta Datta: you know, we thrive on it. It's so much silent also,
Samta Datta: like you said, you don't need to speak a word with that connection. You know,
Samta Datta: it just kind of open, opens you up in that sense. So.
Samta Datta: Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right there. You
Joanne Lockwood: mentioned psychological safety. And I, I sometimes think about,
Joanne Lockwood: or I think about psychological safety. It's, can I trust me
Joanne Lockwood: with you? Are you going to listen to me? Are you going to respect me?
Joanne Lockwood: Are you going to amplify me? Are you going to make me feel good about
Joanne Lockwood: myself? Or am I going to be damaged by talking to
Joanne Lockwood: you, by being with you or being around you? So I think
Joanne Lockwood: a lot of this comes subliminally, so you don't. You're not
Joanne Lockwood: always aware of it. You feel someone's energy, you feel someone's
Joanne Lockwood: passion and you can just tell when you're interacting with somebody, whether they're
Joanne Lockwood: a you person or they're not a you person. So I always find it's very,
Joanne Lockwood: very important when you're trying to create space for people to
Joanne Lockwood: create a positive energy space or a positive vibe space, so that when
Joanne Lockwood: we are interacting, I know that you can trust me and I know you could.
Joanne Lockwood: I could, I can trust you in that conversation. You know, the strange part here
Samta Datta: is I used to think that way. Exactly. And while
Samta Datta: that is partly true, and then while that is
Samta Datta: certainly important for us to feel and that is,
Samta Datta: you know, implicit in the way we behave and how we trust, if you
Samta Datta: start living a little more intentional life, you
Samta Datta: realise maybe, you know, you. You have to do that in a
Samta Datta: meditative state, that maybe you will never find that kind of hundred
Samta Datta: percent, you know, Psychological safety in
Samta Datta: most people. But as long as you can deal with,
Samta Datta: okay, I'm not certainly a hundred percent psychologically safe in this
Samta Datta: space, but if I, I know how to get around this,
Samta Datta: you'll be able to open up more. Because what happens is,
Samta Datta: you know, if you keep looking for psychological safety in
Samta Datta: environments, chances are you're not going to find much of it. Because we
Samta Datta: all get defensive, right? And after a point we're all very
Samta Datta: guarded and defensive. We, you know, in, in, in, in the, in the
Samta Datta: haste of guarding our own self, sometimes we are not able to be providers or
Samta Datta: holding that space, as you said. But, you know, if we move
Samta Datta: over from that point to say, okay, even if I'm not 100% safe
Samta Datta: in this environment, in this, I know how to get around it and
Samta Datta: live a little more intentionally with our own
Samta Datta: energies powering us, I think we can move past
Samta Datta: that. But you're right for the initial bit, you know, you
Samta Datta: know, whether that is your person or not, you know, whether you'll be able to
Samta Datta: hold that conversation or not, or whether how much you need to open or
Samta Datta: not and, you know, how much can you move forward with that person or that
Samta Datta: that's very, you know, intuitive in all of us and we form
Samta Datta: connections basis that a lot of the work that I've done, you
Samta Datta: know, with consumer work that I've done where we kind of try to
Samta Datta: find people's security, desires,
Samta Datta: aspirations for the products, for the lives that they lead in,
Samta Datta: um, you know, a lot of times we realise that
Samta Datta: it is there, there are very few basic human emotions
Samta Datta: that most, I would say, businesses or brands
Samta Datta: are relying on and building on. You
Samta Datta: know, while we do a lot of consumer work, we just realise that
Samta Datta: human insights and the fundamental truths remains so
Samta Datta: strongly ingrained across geographies that
Samta Datta: it's very difficult to kind of go past that.
Samta Datta: It is very difficult. So, yeah, I mean, there is a dichotomy
Samta Datta: in our existence in that sense that, you know, it is
Samta Datta: so deeply ingrained, while at the same time we are always pushing
Samta Datta: ourselves to be more powerful and live a very, very intentional life.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, you mentioned brand there. And when we talk about, when we think about brand,
Joanne Lockwood: we often think about a company or an organisation or a
Joanne Lockwood: product. But we have our own brand as well, don't we? Our own
Joanne Lockwood: values. Because brand comes down to values. It's how we align
Joanne Lockwood: what. It's the things that turn people on or turn people off, all those kind
Joanne Lockwood: of. And that has to be authentic. I mean, we mentioned authenticity
Joanne Lockwood: already because people could tell when you as a
Joanne Lockwood: person or you as a brand or you as an organisation
Joanne Lockwood: are not authentic, you're pretending you're putting
Joanne Lockwood: messaging out there that doesn't align. And that's worse than putting no
Joanne Lockwood: brand out at all, being insincere. True, true,
Samta Datta: true. Yeah. You know, let me take a step
Samta Datta: back and kind of
Samta Datta: give my, a little view on that. You know, when, when we
Samta Datta: use the term brand, somehow it is a very,
Samta Datta: you know, commoditizing of a certain thing
Samta Datta: and ourselves also, you know, I mean, the whole, the
Samta Datta: whole, right now, the whole jingle about
Samta Datta: your personal brand. And while I'm totally on to have a
Samta Datta: certain sense of self and identity there and authenticity there, when
Samta Datta: we use the term brand, it is, it is commoditizing in a certain
Samta Datta: way. But how I look at it, you know,
Samta Datta: is that you are a strong brand
Samta Datta: or you are a strong identity in reflection to others,
Samta Datta: actually are more of yourself, you
Samta Datta: know, you are not a brand. Okay, if I work in personal branding, I
Samta Datta: can't say, okay, you know, oh, Jo, I love you. You know, tomorrow, let's make
Samta Datta: a brand out of you and let's polish this side of you and let's make,
Samta Datta: you know, give you five of these things to do and then, you know, you
Samta Datta: will be an iconic brand and I'll make you an opera.
Samta Datta: No, no, no, that, that's very inauthentic, right?
Samta Datta: The space. Yes, please. Why not? Absolutely. But you
Samta Datta: know, that's very inauthentic. For, for me it is. When you
Samta Datta: become more of who you are, when you end up
Samta Datta: owning more of who you are, you are a
Samta Datta: stronger brand. And when you don't
Samta Datta: live by the judgement of being
Samta Datta: bought by people, you know, then that's when you are a
Samta Datta: stronger brand. So I think when, I mean,
Samta Datta: when I say, you know, helping people
Samta Datta: become a stronger brand, I mean helping people become
Samta Datta: a stronger sense, developing a stronger sense of
Samta Datta: self rather than, you know, giving them a playbook
Samta Datta: of saying, okay, this is how you need to be authentic, these are the five
Samta Datta: things you need to do. That's no matter how good they
Samta Datta: are, they are not authentic. If you just can own up
Samta Datta: your own unique strength, and I believe everybody has
Samta Datta: that, the more you own up, the more you
Samta Datta: shine. And let's not fix what's not
Samta Datta: broken, let's not try to be fitting in the world of.
Samta Datta: And painting a perfect picture. Owning up your more of
Samta Datta: yourself is becoming a true
Samta Datta: brand. That's my $0.02 there. Have you heard
Joanne Lockwood: of the term catfishing or catfishing on social
Joanne Lockwood: media? On dating profiles. Yes, yes, I have.
Joanne Lockwood: What you're saying here is if you're not careful, what you end up doing is
Joanne Lockwood: misrepresenting yourself either with a fake image, a fake
Joanne Lockwood: Persona, fake personality, whatever it may be, which is effectively
Joanne Lockwood: catfishing. When you meet me in person, I'm not the person you think
Joanne Lockwood: I am from what you've seen already. So that, that's where the authenticity comes
Joanne Lockwood: in. My online, my visible
Joanne Lockwood: presence, my brand, if you like, aligns when you meet me as well. Because
Joanne Lockwood: too often, I mean, I watch chat shows, movie stars,
Joanne Lockwood: they come onto the. They come onto the chat show and you realise your hero,
Joanne Lockwood: movie star isn't the person they vote the character they
Joanne Lockwood: play. But that's how you see them as this character they play in the
Joanne Lockwood: movie. Really, them as a human being have different
Joanne Lockwood: values, different beliefs. And so sometimes, if you're not careful,
Joanne Lockwood: you live your public Persona without it truly being you. Oh, my God,
Samta Datta: you kind of nailed it. You really did nail it there. Because you know
Samta Datta: what the byproduct of
Samta Datta: creating a very strong quote unquote,
Samta Datta: personal brand or having a strong Persona or having a star
Samta Datta: quality to anybody for that matter, is that
Samta Datta: beyond that success or beyond that
Samta Datta: identity, you become a personality
Samta Datta: and you lose the person. Like you saying,
Samta Datta: catfishing, right? What happens is so many times you end up
Samta Datta: behaving like how you're supposed to behave
Samta Datta: versus owning up your authentic self.
Samta Datta: And, oh, my God, if you're successful at that, you will have to
Samta Datta: keep. You have to perpetually be on stage all the
Samta Datta: time. And that's. That's not good. I think we
Joanne Lockwood: see famous people through history burning out.
Joanne Lockwood: You know, go back to Elvis Presley, go back to
Joanne Lockwood: all these big names through time that you think about all these people that
Joanne Lockwood: have taken their own lives, they've had breakdowns, they've
Joanne Lockwood: drugs and drink, alcohol, they're trying to
Joanne Lockwood: keep themselves in their brand Persona and they need these
Joanne Lockwood: drugs effectively to keep them there. Because it's unsustainable,
Joanne Lockwood: isn't it? Exactly. Absolutely. You know, because
Samta Datta: at the end of the day, you know, that's why I have a
Samta Datta: little bit of a. I take it with a pinch of salt when I use
Samta Datta: the word personal branding. Because what you're trying to do is
Samta Datta: basically stitch together a mask for yourself
Samta Datta: that you need to hold on then and put on forever. And that's
Samta Datta: actually so counter
Samta Datta: to, you know, that's actually the opposite of what you're trying to
Samta Datta: do here. The idea is to own up a little more
Samta Datta: of yourself. The idea is to develop courage to be a
Samta Datta: little more of yourself, not to have the perfect
Samta Datta: couture and wearing it out. That's not the idea here. The
Samta Datta: idea here is to be a little more of who you are, allowing yourself
Samta Datta: a little air and time and space, because otherwise, how many, how
Samta Datta: many commodities can you really have? One would be plastering on an
Samta Datta: image and the other one and the. Then the other one. And how long can
Samta Datta: you keep up the show? Yeah, I've. I think,
Joanne Lockwood: well, I've probably been through this evolution myself and
Joanne Lockwood: I realised that it's important to just live one life.
Joanne Lockwood: If you're trying to live two lives or you have to translate everything in your
Joanne Lockwood: head. Yes. Who am I talking to? What story have I told in the
Joanne Lockwood: past? How have I got a smile? How have I got to show up? And
Joanne Lockwood: it becomes so exhausting. And when you let that go, life
Joanne Lockwood: just becomes simpler. Just love me or hate me
Joanne Lockwood: for who I am, not for who I'm pretending to be.
Samta Datta: True. True. And that's at. The journey begins with
Samta Datta: self. Here the journey begins with allowing yourself to
Samta Datta: own that up. Because as we evolve as humans,
Samta Datta: there will. There will be many, many aspects of ourselves that
Samta Datta: we'll develop. And that could be leaving
Samta Datta: behind something and getting into something.
Samta Datta: And no matter how successful my past tense was at
Samta Datta: the end of it, it was a past tense. You know, you
Samta Datta: need to move forward and find the new you and then build
Samta Datta: that up. And that's the circle of life. Why do you think people
Joanne Lockwood: are so scared or fearful
Joanne Lockwood: about showing their true selves? Sometimes they think they're good
Joanne Lockwood: enough. They don't think people are going to like them. Well, there a lot of
Samta Datta: reasons, I'm sure I. I don't see. A
Samta Datta: lot of times when we are young, our sense of self is not developed and
Samta Datta: we see ourselves through other people's eyes, be it siblings
Samta Datta: and parents and. And grandparents and
Samta Datta: friends and crushes and boyfriends and
Samta Datta: girlfriends and that
Samta Datta: sometimes, you know, like I read somewhere,
Samta Datta: when you. When a parent is
Samta Datta: mean to a child, you know, knowingly or
Samta Datta: unknowingly, the child does not end
Samta Datta: up becoming mean to the parent. The child end
Samta Datta: up in hating themselves. So you're. If in your
Samta Datta: foundation, you've. You've
Samta Datta: had some experiences where you
Samta Datta: were criticised, you were not strong at that
Samta Datta: point to fight back, so you believed
Samta Datta: them and their vision of yourself and you started
Samta Datta: kind of cultivating that opinion and that hate for
Samta Datta: self while still loving the source
Samta Datta: of the hate or any kind
Samta Datta: of trauma that came in with that you know, but that
Samta Datta: has shaped most of us. And yeah, one has
Samta Datta: to kind of realise that, okay, this is the line and
Samta Datta: now I press the stop button and I reevaluate and
Samta Datta: recalibrate myself from here. Have you been through something similar
Joanne Lockwood: yourself where you've had to discover who you. Are
Samta Datta: many times, many times over. I am still, I'm
Samta Datta: sure, doing that, you know, because I get
Samta Datta: very guarded and I don't allow much opinions to
Samta Datta: flow in. Yeah, I could be very. And certainly that takes
Samta Datta: that. I end up wasting a lot of time to let go of what needs
Samta Datta: to be and move on to the next because I'm
Samta Datta: somebody very, very. I would consider myself somebody very passionate. So
Samta Datta: I end up investing or over investing myself in building something up
Samta Datta: and then it is very difficult for me to leave that and move to the
Samta Datta: next and find light at the end of the tunnel as you move
Samta Datta: forward. So yeah, I struggle with that myself. What advice
Joanne Lockwood: do you give yourself when you, when you feel yourself
Joanne Lockwood: into this dead end, you know, going dead, going into this tunnel? How do
Joanne Lockwood: you, how do you help yourself find the light? I'm a
Samta Datta: person of very strong faith, so that has
Samta Datta: really helped me over so many years. But I do, I
Samta Datta: do believe that nothing matters. Eventually nothing matters. I
Samta Datta: mean, whatever I'm building, whatever I'm doing, wherever I am, it's
Samta Datta: all a game. Nothing would really matter. So enjoy it. This
Samta Datta: is what I've, I've Learned like last 4 years. This is
Samta Datta: how I have kind of
Samta Datta: made it a little bit of my mantra that nothing really matters. So play it
Samta Datta: on, play it on the way you want to play it on because
Samta Datta: eventually, you know, in couple of years this will not make sense.
Samta Datta: Something else will become important and the priorities will keep
Samta Datta: changing. So don't give it too much importance. If it's a
Samta Datta: mistake, that's okay. Move on, make another one. The change is constant.
Joanne Lockwood: It's about riding the wave, knowing that the right, the wave
Joanne Lockwood: will just keep floating us on and we'll find some new opportunities.
Joanne Lockwood: If things don't work, we learn from it and we
Joanne Lockwood: just find the next thing. Yeah. And eventually
Samta Datta: everything is a game. Nobody's going to, nobody's, nobody's keeping your
Samta Datta: score except you. So yeah,
Samta Datta: that, you know, you have to. Yeah, I suppose when we get
Joanne Lockwood: to the end of the game, there is no more, is there? It's. We leave
Joanne Lockwood: this world and, and everybody else moves on without us and we
Joanne Lockwood: just cease to be. So you're right, we have a time on this earth
Joanne Lockwood: and we go through many, many different phases of our life as a child,
Joanne Lockwood: as a teen, as an adult. And we evolve all the time, don't we?
Samta Datta: Yeah. And everything is a lesson. Everything is, is meant for you to learn
Samta Datta: something and move forward. Sometimes it comes in a form of a very painful event
Samta Datta: and sometimes it comes in a form of a big ticket win. But at the
Samta Datta: end of thread, everything is a game, everything is an experience,
Samta Datta: everything's a lesson. You learn it, you share it, you enjoy in
Samta Datta: it, you thrive in it, you burn in it and you move forward. That's what
Samta Datta: I've learned. And there are many lessons still to be learned. There
Samta Datta: isn't any bottom line here. No. I'm a, a great believer
Joanne Lockwood: that most of the reality is
Joanne Lockwood: made up in your own head and you create your own reality and your
Joanne Lockwood: brain makes sense of stimulus from the world around you.
Joanne Lockwood: And what you, how you interpret that is data. How, how you
Joanne Lockwood: interpret it and you can interpret anything positively,
Joanne Lockwood: negatively, and it's how you frame it in your, in your head.
Samta Datta: Yeah. Not always easy to reframe,
Joanne Lockwood: but when you realise you have the power on how you see
Joanne Lockwood: something. Yeah. And you can adjust the way you think,
Joanne Lockwood: that's, it's, it's empowering and also
Joanne Lockwood: liberating. It's very liberating because. Yeah, it is.
Samta Datta: Because at the end of a Jol, you have to live a very intentional
Samta Datta: life and you have to allow yourself
Samta Datta: to endorse your power. You know, that is very
Samta Datta: important. The power cannot rest in anywhere else except yourself.
Samta Datta: And when you do that, you create an intentional life. You
Samta Datta: police yourself a lot more and say, okay, those thoughts
Samta Datta: are not going to help me. That action is wasting my
Samta Datta: time. That is a, not a meaningful
Samta Datta: way to engage. You know, so you, you, you kind of develop your
Samta Datta: own, you know, you became, you become
Samta Datta: creature of habit creations that serve you
Samta Datta: rather than the other way around. So and, and that, and there from
Samta Datta: where the, you know, your behaviour kind of builds. Yeah, it is.
Joanne Lockwood: And I, I, we talk about things like growth, mindset and
Joanne Lockwood: open mindedness and looking for the good
Joanne Lockwood: in people, looking for opportunities in, in the world. All
Joanne Lockwood: these things allow you to
Joanne Lockwood: expand and move on from trauma, move
Joanne Lockwood: on from getting stuck into something. Not every, not
Joanne Lockwood: everybody has the mental capacity or mental
Joanne Lockwood: strength or the privilege to be able to make those
Joanne Lockwood: decisions. And we talked in the show notes, you mentioned the word inclusion
Joanne Lockwood: and we're touching on brand because
Joanne Lockwood: when you're feeling excluded, when you're feeling
Joanne Lockwood: discriminated against, when you're, you're not in the Majority,
Joanne Lockwood: you're being pushed to the edges. Sometimes it's hard
Joanne Lockwood: when you have that negative reinforcement in order actions
Joanne Lockwood: to better see a way forward. And it's very
Joanne Lockwood: easy for me and maybe for you to say just
Joanne Lockwood: it's okay, you can put it behind you. But not everybody has
Joanne Lockwood: that privilege, do they? No, they don't. And sometimes we are meant to
Samta Datta: experience a certain, a certain amount
Samta Datta: of pain. We are meant to experience that.
Samta Datta: That's very important for us. So I mean right now, if you
Samta Datta: will tell me when I am going through that pain, that it is important for
Samta Datta: you to go through that pain. I'm sure I'm not going to take this well,
Samta Datta: but the truth lies in knowing that sometimes it is
Samta Datta: important for you to go through that pain,
Samta Datta: for you to become
Samta Datta: the next you. You know, we're all in the process of becoming,
Samta Datta: not the CEO, the this or that, but in
Samta Datta: the process of becoming. Becoming a. You know, we are becoming.
Samta Datta: We are always that evolving and becoming. So in
Samta Datta: that sense, it is not easy. You are absolutely right. And sometimes we don't have
Samta Datta: the agency to support us in any form or manner. We
Samta Datta: have to be. We are at of
Samta Datta: the lowest ebb. We are. We find our. But we
Samta Datta: find our way. You know, we find our way, trust me. We find our way.
Samta Datta: We find what lessons we have learned. We
Samta Datta: find the way around it. I mean, I, I'm a person of faith. I found
Samta Datta: my strength through faith. You could be a person
Samta Datta: of action and you could find your
Samta Datta: strength in action, but we find courage. And that's
Samta Datta: why courage is a, is a very most important in my eyes as
Samta Datta: a virtue because courage keeps
Samta Datta: you moving and
Samta Datta: becoming the next version of yourself.
Samta Datta: That's. And that's, that's where I'm saying that, you know, coming back to
Samta Datta: the brands and the way of the world, brands also cannot
Samta Datta: avoid negativity. The lowest ebb,
Samta Datta: the hate at times, but it is standing on your
Samta Datta: core at that point that kind of takes you to the next level
Samta Datta: in the game. Yeah, I think as you're speaking
Joanne Lockwood: there I was thinking of the word character
Joanne Lockwood: popped into my head. And someone's character,
Joanne Lockwood: the brand character, how you
Joanne Lockwood: respond to negativity or
Joanne Lockwood: to positivity or situation is your character is how
Joanne Lockwood: you, how you show yourself in times of adversity,
Joanne Lockwood: whatever it may be. So when we are making mistakes, it's
Joanne Lockwood: how we respond to that mistake is our character, isn't it? Exactly
Samta Datta: like they say, character is what you do when no one is watching,
Samta Datta: when the lights are off, you Know. Yeah. That
Samta Datta: integrity, the character that, that really shines. Right. That really
Samta Datta: shines through. Through. And, and that is authentic. I mean, again, I, I would
Samta Datta: just say in that moment also we cannot be
Samta Datta: self righteous and say that is a higher character thing
Samta Datta: to do and that is a lower character thing to do. If in that
Samta Datta: moment also that person was
Samta Datta: trying to be more of who they were, I think their inner power
Samta Datta: would be stronger. And in that moment, if you are half hearted, half
Samta Datta: brained, trying to please everybody, no matter
Samta Datta: if you did the right thing, you disown yourself in this,
Samta Datta: in this whole action. I don't know whether it is making sense.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, no, completely. Completely. Yeah. When
Joanne Lockwood: you're working with organisations, it's very easy, you know, to
Joanne Lockwood: sell who you want to be. Not selling who you
Joanne Lockwood: are or marketing or creating this brand about this Persona that you,
Joanne Lockwood: you want to step into. Yeah. How hard is it to get
Joanne Lockwood: brands to recognise they need to change
Joanne Lockwood: themselves first before they try and step into this brand again? That
Joanne Lockwood: authenticity, aligning themselves. So if you're not careful what you do is you, you
Joanne Lockwood: keep chasing the dream of who you are and never actually
Joanne Lockwood: being that dream. Hand on heart, it is.
Samta Datta: It, it is more for most times it is
Samta Datta: difficult and I'll tell you why it is difficult. It is not
Samta Datta: difficult because you know, you
Samta Datta: are you doing business with people who don't understand
Samta Datta: this. No, they absolutely understand this and they understand it's
Samta Datta: sometimes equally, if not more than how much
Samta Datta: you. In the world that we live in, if we are
Samta Datta: constantly married to an Excel
Samta Datta: sheet and the bottom line and every year on
Samta Datta: year we have to show a certain amount of profitability,
Samta Datta: it becomes very difficult, increasingly difficult.
Samta Datta: Sometimes your values will get shortchanged because the numbers
Samta Datta: become important. But if in the long run, if you see
Samta Datta: the brands that have been able to hold the test
Samta Datta: of the time are the ones who
Samta Datta: have either stood on themselves on those pillars
Samta Datta: or have course corrected themselves. So
Samta Datta: if you are somebody who is building something
Samta Datta: that commands a certain amount
Samta Datta: of, you will
Samta Datta: understand this very easily and you will understand why it
Samta Datta: is important for you to hold on to it. But if you are somebody
Samta Datta: who gets pressurised with the bottom line
Samta Datta: way too easily, then it becomes a challenge, and
Samta Datta: rightly so. Sometimes it is challenging. I can't, I
Samta Datta: won't judge, but that's the truth of it. Bottom line has to be
Joanne Lockwood: part of the equation. Because if you're, if your product, your brand,
Joanne Lockwood: whatever you're trying to sell, whether it's you or the business,
Joanne Lockwood: if it's not resonating, it won't sell. Therefore the bottom line will suffer.
Joanne Lockwood: But I often think that we should be leading with. We
Joanne Lockwood: are leading people first, leading, and we talked about connection
Joanne Lockwood: first, building that resonance with somebody else.
Joanne Lockwood: Then the bottom line should come as a byproduct. Whereas if
Joanne Lockwood: you put the bottom line as the prime objective,
Joanne Lockwood: then you try and fit everything into
Joanne Lockwood: inauthentically to try and achieve that bottom line. Whereas if you start with
Joanne Lockwood: people first and generate profit and revenue
Joanne Lockwood: through positive connection, then the bottom line will follow. Keep an eye
Joanne Lockwood: on the bottom line, obviously, making sure that you're spending the money in the right
Joanne Lockwood: place. If the overheads are correct, if you have to leave with people, you have
Joanne Lockwood: to leave with connection. You have to leave with character and brand, in my opinion.
Samta Datta: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I have nothing
Samta Datta: else to add. You are absolutely right. And I wish
Samta Datta: and I pray and I hope that in times to come we
Samta Datta: have businesses and people
Samta Datta: that not just believe in this also walk
Samta Datta: the talk, you know, because I think, I think the current
Samta Datta: businesses, the new world that we are living in, the consumer is
Samta Datta: dissing, has developed a very strong voice and is dissing the
Samta Datta: brands on these. On these parameters.
Samta Datta: Absolutely. So you can't just be the big brand and dump
Samta Datta: your waste somewhere in the world and,
Samta Datta: you know, wash your hands off it. Brands are being made to be more
Samta Datta: accountable, they're doing businesses. And yeah,
Samta Datta: the world is changing. The world is definitely changing. How I said
Joanne Lockwood: earlier that I've never been to India as yet. How do you perceive
Joanne Lockwood: the way India does business versus maybe the Western or
Joanne Lockwood: the Eastern or the European sort of influences that maybe you see?
Joanne Lockwood: Is other values similar or is Indian culture and
Joanne Lockwood: ethics different to the Northern hemisphere? The
Joanne Lockwood: Americans, the British, the Russians. Good question.
Samta Datta: Fundamentally, Indians are very family
Samta Datta: oriented. Most of
Samta Datta: our cultural value are very family
Samta Datta: oriented. So the businesses that come from
Samta Datta: India represent the
Samta Datta: family value system in the organisation far
Samta Datta: more strongly. Not to say that necessarily they are good or bad, but this
Samta Datta: is one. The family values get adapted
Samta Datta: to the business far more strongly. And India is very big
Samta Datta: to actually answer this one, because different regions have different
Samta Datta: business houses and different examples and different sects do
Samta Datta: business very differently. So it's very tough to answer, but
Samta Datta: I'm trying to kind of put it all together to
Samta Datta: simplify it. That is very strong. So you
Samta Datta: will find, you know, if you look from the eyes of the
Samta Datta: Northern hemisphere, as you were calling it, it might not be
Samta Datta: very easily understood or why are Indians
Samta Datta: doing it? Why is everybody related to everybody? But you know,
Samta Datta: it's, it's that cultural family value kind of
Samta Datta: cascades down to the business most
Samta Datta: times. The other thing to actually look
Samta Datta: in behavioural economics is that we
Samta Datta: as Indians, you know, are very
Samta Datta: circular as people. I don't know whether it's making sense. The
Samta Datta: west, if I would say, fundamentally looks
Samta Datta: at everything as a linear line and
Samta Datta: hierarchy of sorts. So one step and, you know, you become, you join
Samta Datta: an executive, then you become a senior executive, then you become a
Samta Datta: manager, senior manager and so on. And you know, the world is
Samta Datta: linear in weight approaches
Samta Datta: success, while in the context of
Samta Datta: India, the world is very circular.
Samta Datta: So even, you know, in our practises, in our
Samta Datta: festivities, in our celebration, everything
Samta Datta: is very roundabout. Everything just comes back to the same point
Samta Datta: somehow. So we aren't very linear. So we, the way we stand
Samta Datta: is, we know, okay, even if you are standing ahead, we are all standing in
Samta Datta: the circle. And as it moves, you might be ahead right now, but the
Samta Datta: circle will move and I'll be ahead. That's a very fundamental, what do
Samta Datta: I say, ingrained value in Indians.
Samta Datta: And that is why they're very, they're taken to be very casual
Samta Datta: in most, in most areas, which might,
Samta Datta: Might not be true anymore. But I'm talking about
Samta Datta: a very philosophical difference between the two. I don't know
Samta Datta: whether that really answered your question. But yeah, I, I was just
Joanne Lockwood: using my limited knowledge of my stereotypes and
Joanne Lockwood: biassing to see that maybe the Western culture is more
Joanne Lockwood: capitalist and cutthroat. The Indian
Joanne Lockwood: culture, in my perception, will be more collaborative
Joanne Lockwood: and more success of the whole rather
Joanne Lockwood: than success of the individual. But then that's the stereotype that
Joanne Lockwood: I have no evidence for. Well, to a certain extent,
Samta Datta: I would say that stereotype is correct in
Samta Datta: our language per se. The idea, the
Samta Datta: word success is not bifurcated alone
Samta Datta: to the arena of work. The term, if you
Samta Datta: translate it to, I'm using right now Hindi, but if you translate
Samta Datta: it to a local language, the idea of
Samta Datta: success as translated is you are successful
Samta Datta: when you are a good son, when you perform your family duties,
Samta Datta: when you perform. But that, I mean, I know when you perform
Samta Datta: a holistic way of living,
Samta Datta: that's when you are successful. That's when you are considered,
Samta Datta: you know, successful. But I would say that would be quite similar to the
Samta Datta: way even Europe is, you know, at least Britain, if I'm. I'm
Samta Datta: not mistaken. Because am I correct? Not
Samta Datta: correct. I think people want that. There's a belief that
Joanne Lockwood: people see true success when you have everything. But
Joanne Lockwood: then there's the Paradox that you can't
Joanne Lockwood: have everything. You know, we look at, let's talk about gender. Women are finding it
Joanne Lockwood: very difficult to have everything, a family, parenthood and career
Joanne Lockwood: success. And most women are put in a position
Joanne Lockwood: where choosing between career success and family
Joanne Lockwood: means they have to choose and it. And then when they come back
Joanne Lockwood: into the workplace in their 40s, they're finding it hard to
Joanne Lockwood: catch up again. And we're seeing huge gender gaps because of the
Joanne Lockwood: family responsibilities or lack of by gender. So I
Joanne Lockwood: don't know whether from a gender perspective in India, whether
Joanne Lockwood: women feel they have the opportunity to have both
Joanne Lockwood: family and career. I think if you
Samta Datta: see, I would say, you know, the corporate, big city
Samta Datta: life, metropolitan life, I would say this is so true for India
Samta Datta: as well. It is quite true. There's a byproduct of a lot
Samta Datta: of things that has happened in last 30, 40
Samta Datta: years and the way the world has shaped up, fortunately
Samta Datta: or unfortunately, it's a struggle. It becomes a struggle point
Samta Datta: and a stress point. And as women we are
Samta Datta: told to, you know,
Samta Datta: your prime responsibility is your home. If you are
Samta Datta: successful at the cost of your home, that's not
Samta Datta: success. You're shamed for it rather so success. If it
Samta Datta: coming at the cost of your primal, natural,
Samta Datta: quote unquote duties, then it
Samta Datta: is, it actually is used to shame you.
Samta Datta: So yeah, we are not living by the same rules for sure. Is society
Joanne Lockwood: changing? Is it? Or is there still a lot of pressure
Joanne Lockwood: for women to do those traditional in quotes roles
Joanne Lockwood: in the family? Is it changing? Yes,
Samta Datta: it is. But you know, the more things change, the
Samta Datta: more they remain the same. So what is happening is, and I think that's
Samta Datta: happening over the, all across the world is
Samta Datta: if you were going to be put to
Samta Datta: the point where you have to work all through your life and you
Samta Datta: know, make careers as bright as your spouse, then
Samta Datta: more and more couples are not willing to have, you
Samta Datta: know, the next generation more and more, you know, so you will cut
Samta Datta: corners somewhere. You will have to
Samta Datta: because at the end of the thread, that is the limited energy
Samta Datta: that you live with. You cannot, you know, you
Samta Datta: cannot you, I mean, I mean that's what I'm seeing as a, as a, as
Samta Datta: a. I could be again very wrong, very right here. But
Samta Datta: it's, it's the mix of how the society is changing all across.
Samta Datta: And what do you think? What do you, do you think that is also something
Samta Datta: that you see in the west? There's a huge
Joanne Lockwood: momentum, if you like, to allow women, I hate that word
Joanne Lockwood: allow or to promote women and to make sure that women have opportunities.
Joanne Lockwood: But there's still this fundamental. You can't have everything.
Joanne Lockwood: If you want to have children, you are the one who has children. If you
Joanne Lockwood: want to have a family, then you want to enjoy that part of
Joanne Lockwood: your life. You want to enjoy your children, you want to nurture them and celebrate
Joanne Lockwood: them. If you want to have a career, you have to make that
Joanne Lockwood: choice. If you don't care. If we go back to that authenticity,
Joanne Lockwood: that brand, who are you? And there should be nothing
Joanne Lockwood: wrong with being a parent, being a mother, being a father, being however you
Joanne Lockwood: identify yourself. Absolutely. I wanted to put that first.
Joanne Lockwood: But there, there's, there seems to be this belief you have to choose
Joanne Lockwood: and you cannot be a successful career woman who
Joanne Lockwood: puts her family first. In many cases, you know, there are obviously
Joanne Lockwood: examples where people could do that. But in the majority, women have to choose
Joanne Lockwood: still. And you're right, you're right, that's the
Joanne Lockwood: challenge. And, but that's also programmed into you from a very
Joanne Lockwood: early age as well. It's ingrained. And men go out to work and
Joanne Lockwood: bring money in. Women sort the house out and the, the home and the
Joanne Lockwood: family. Men can go off and do what they want for most of their
Joanne Lockwood: life knowing full well that there's a, the
Joanne Lockwood: mother, for one of a better phrase, is, is at home doing the work.
Joanne Lockwood: Of course, you know, we got, we have same sex couples, we have two
Joanne Lockwood: females, two men, non binary people, all different sorts of families out
Joanne Lockwood: there. But fundamentally one person has to have assumes
Joanne Lockwood: the responsibility for prime parent, if you like.
Samta Datta: Yep. You know, it's so interesting that you bring this up because I
Samta Datta: think yesterday I was reading that Japan
Samta Datta: has, I think next year they're starting on to make
Samta Datta: the weekend a three day weekend because they want their population
Samta Datta: to kind of have more children and they want to give the
Samta Datta: younger generation a little more time and not be stressed out about work.
Samta Datta: So yeah, yeah, you know it. I think we
Samta Datta: are coming to a point where we are letting people, at
Samta Datta: least most of us are trying to let people be as they want to be.
Samta Datta: You choose your, you choose who you want to be.
Samta Datta: And yeah, while I'm sure there will be struggles on the
Samta Datta: way, I think. We look at lockdown and Covid and
Joanne Lockwood: work from home and isolation as a stressful time for many.
Joanne Lockwood: But also it did teach a lot of people
Joanne Lockwood: that work could be done differently. You can
Joanne Lockwood: have a life, you don't have to spend two hours
Joanne Lockwood: commuting, you don't have to spend all this time in the office.
Joanne Lockwood: You can slice your day up into bits, you can look after your children,
Joanne Lockwood: you could do three hours work, you could look after your children a bit, you
Joanne Lockwood: could do three more hours, you could do three hours in the evening. So you
Joanne Lockwood: could slice your work up in different ways. I think the frustration is
Joanne Lockwood: that the world seems to be trying to revert back
Joanne Lockwood: to the old way, the male way. They have to be in the office
Joanne Lockwood: way, the sort of incumbent methodology that you
Joanne Lockwood: can only succeed by being here, sort of, sort of mantra.
Joanne Lockwood: I think that's what we're losing all of a sudden. You know, all these things
Joanne Lockwood: we learned through Covid, we've, We're suddenly forgetting again. What do you think is
Samta Datta: and what do you think is the consequence of that? I think it removes flexibility.
Joanne Lockwood: I think, I don't, I'm not, I don't want to dictate to
Joanne Lockwood: anybody about how you should work, when you should work. But what I'd like to
Joanne Lockwood: see is people have. Feel empowered to understand
Joanne Lockwood: how they perform best, when they perform best, whether that's
Joanne Lockwood: working alone, working a team, working with people. And we started by talking
Joanne Lockwood: at the beginning about connection and getting energy from each other. So I fully
Joanne Lockwood: appreciate that we need to be able to get energy from people. So if we
Joanne Lockwood: are living alone, it's not necessarily healthy to work alone as well.
Joanne Lockwood: But if you have a strong family, you have a strong community, you can get
Joanne Lockwood: all the energy you need from your community, from the people around
Joanne Lockwood: you and work doesn't have to be the provider of that energy. So
Joanne Lockwood: I think what we need to do is we need to think about what is
Joanne Lockwood: important. Yeah. And going back to the
Joanne Lockwood: office and working and commuting doesn't have to be the only
Joanne Lockwood: answer. But then we try and create this environment of fairness.
Joanne Lockwood: Well, if I have to come into the office, you have to come in, we
Joanne Lockwood: all have to come in, treat everyone the same. Whereas if we can
Joanne Lockwood: recognise people have different skills, different strengths,
Joanne Lockwood: neurodiversity, different needs, emotional connections or even
Joanne Lockwood: living environment, then we can, then we can create a world where people
Joanne Lockwood: can consume and contribute
Joanne Lockwood: in the way that works best for them. I think that's what we're losing. We're
Joanne Lockwood: trying to go back to a one size fits. It's all frustrating if you like
Joanne Lockwood: it is, it is. But an anti trend to that that I'm seeing
Samta Datta: is that the younger generations are
Samta Datta: redefining what success looks
Samta Datta: like for them. They are not buying into the old
Samta Datta: idea of success and they are redefining
Samta Datta: it. So if you may say the gig economy or the way that we want
Samta Datta: to work. And I think that's very fundamental to how you
Samta Datta: operate. You know, the process. I mean working four day or five day
Samta Datta: or working in a corporation or as a freelance. I mean all of
Samta Datta: that is fundamentally coming from how we have
Samta Datta: defined success in our own heads and how we chase after all of
Samta Datta: that. But the younger generation is opening that up
Samta Datta: and saying I'm not going to subscribe to how you
Samta Datta: hand me down the rules of success because I'm going to make it
Samta Datta: my way and I'm going to make tools around it
Samta Datta: that and I'm going to make take a lot more technological support
Samta Datta: for it. And I'm not going to judge you or judge anyone who take
Samta Datta: technological support or think them. They are
Samta Datta: defining the successes on their own terms. They are not taking
Samta Datta: a hand me down approach of the
Samta Datta: success parameters. And which is great
Samta Datta: because they are coming with new ways.
Samta Datta: They're supported by their technology, they're supported
Samta Datta: by tools that makes their life easier. They can travel
Samta Datta: and work from anywhere. They can earn money without reporting to a certain
Samta Datta: structure. They can be much more community, they can put themselves out
Samta Datta: there. And that's the new way of,
Samta Datta: the new way that the next generation has defined success.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, I completely agree. I look at my daughter and
Joanne Lockwood: she has a job, her husband has a job. But they also, they're setting up
Joanne Lockwood: their own online shop, they're starting to push other staff,
Joanne Lockwood: they buy and sell clothing on online stores, they've got
Joanne Lockwood: their own fashion brands, they're pushing out.
Joanne Lockwood: And it's just what they do today. You can create a
Joanne Lockwood: global business
Joanne Lockwood: from an iPad in a bedroom without anything
Joanne Lockwood: else. Something I couldn't have done when I was younger because you didn't have the
Joanne Lockwood: access to market. But now we've got all the tools,
Joanne Lockwood: graphics, design, branding, we've got Marketplace, we've
Joanne Lockwood: got Instagram, we've got social media, we've got all these different products.
Samta Datta: And certainly the good part is, I mean I would say that
Samta Datta: my generation, I would say is still being judged on being using
Samta Datta: these tools and using the support
Samta Datta: that we get from technology. But my generation is judging the same
Samta Datta: generation using this much support. But I mean I'm like
Samta Datta: they're getting a year's job done
Samta Datta: in a month, so what's the problem here? And
Samta Datta: they don't want to work 240 days in
Samta Datta: 365 days. They want to work much less. And
Samta Datta: yeah, why not? I mean I'm
Joanne Lockwood: nearly 60 and I'm embracing this New technology. I'm
Joanne Lockwood: embracing new ways of working because I don't want to do
Joanne Lockwood: work all day, I, all night. And I want to rapidly build
Joanne Lockwood: something and get to market with something really quickly. So yeah, and I use the
Joanne Lockwood: tools I can. I, I embrace AI and some of the
Joanne Lockwood: other startups. I'm a great believer in looking
Joanne Lockwood: around for different solutions and if I can shave a corner off, if I can
Joanne Lockwood: get quicker from A to B, I'm going to do that. I think in times
Samta Datta: we should remove, I don't know, but we should remove the
Samta Datta: shame of using technology to its optimum.
Samta Datta: I'm like a lot of chat, GDP
Samta Datta: writers or self. I mean, they shouldn't. I mean,
Samta Datta: you know, classically, if you haven't thought of a thought, it's not your
Samta Datta: thought. You know, that approach is, does not
Samta Datta: find its way through this generation. No.
Joanne Lockwood: And it's hard to have original thought. Even when you
Joanne Lockwood: do, you Google it and you figure out someone else has already had that
Joanne Lockwood: thought, then you don't know whether it was your thought in the first place or
Joanne Lockwood: you'd heard it from somebody else or you'd seen it somewhere.
Joanne Lockwood: So where is original thought? We look at the
Joanne Lockwood: world and civilizations have all evolved in
Joanne Lockwood: very similar ways with similar outcomes, yet not
Joanne Lockwood: connected. You know, the wheel was invented by everybody, not
Joanne Lockwood: by one person. Housing, roofing,
Joanne Lockwood: cooking, all evolved independently in different parts
Joanne Lockwood: of the world, with different flavours, different spices. But fundamentally, as a
Joanne Lockwood: human species, we evolved through great ideas.
Joanne Lockwood: So who has the first thought? It's hard to say who to
Joanne Lockwood: say exactly. So I think it's how it's. I always believe it's how you interpret
Joanne Lockwood: it. Your spin, your brand,
Joanne Lockwood: your beliefs, you know, all the things we talked about earlier. Your character, whatever you
Joanne Lockwood: bring to it, how I give you my thought, you know you talked about psychological
Joanne Lockwood: safety earlier. Yeah, I talk about psychological safety from
Joanne Lockwood: my perspective and I give you my view of it.
Joanne Lockwood: Fundamentally, it's still the same thing, the concept, but how
Joanne Lockwood: I. The story I tell, the feeling, I give you
Joanne Lockwood: the angle, I come up with. That's my bit of it. Based on
Joanne Lockwood: another idea. If that's all chatgpt, that's how AI is
Joanne Lockwood: doing it, then you just
Joanne Lockwood: gotta take that and put your personality on top. Sam,
Joanne Lockwood: it's been an absolutely fascinating hour. We could talk. We could talk. It's. I'm
Joanne Lockwood: looking you on video here. I can see it's got dark. When we started talking,
Joanne Lockwood: it was daylight. So, yeah, look at it. You're six or seven
Joanne Lockwood: hours ahead of me. I think so, yeah. It's just after lunch for me but
Joanne Lockwood: early evening for you. So how can people get a hold of you? They can
Samta Datta: get hold of me on my Instagram and LinkedIn. That's where I'm at.
Samta Datta: Or they can write to me at 'SamtaDatta'. That's my first name and second name
Samta Datta: together '@gmail.com'. i talk about brands, marketing
Samta Datta: people building and personal brands and I train as well.
Samta Datta: So that's where I'm at. Samta
Joanne Lockwood: Datta is S-A-M-T-A and then
Joanne Lockwood: data is D-A-T-T-A. Yeah, yeah,
Joanne Lockwood: Fantastic. I'll put your LinkedIn and Instagram on the
Joanne Lockwood: profile and the in the show notes. So if you're looking for that, people
Joanne Lockwood: should just reach out and have a connect. Is that okay? Absolutely. I'm
Samta Datta: here to help everybody. Sam, it's been fascinating.
Joanne Lockwood: Thank you. Absolutely has been fascinating. Thank you so much for your time and
Samta Datta: this lovely interaction. As we bring
Joanne Lockwood: this conversation to a close, I want to express my
Joanne Lockwood: deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your
Joanne Lockwood: ear and heart to the cause of inclusion.
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Joanne Lockwood: is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return
Joanne Lockwood: with more enriching narratives that challenge,
Joanne Lockwood: inspire and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more
Joanne Lockwood: inclusive world one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.