WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:11.219 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 2 00:00:11.360 --> 00:00:15.125 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 3 00:00:15.265 --> 00:00:18.705 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 4 00:00:18.705 --> 00:00:22.405 inclusion, belonging, and societal transformation. 5 00:00:23.105 --> 00:00:26.625 Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world where 6 00:00:26.625 --> 00:00:30.050 everyone not only belongs but thrives? You're 7 00:00:30.050 --> 00:00:33.649 not alone. Join me as we uncover the 8 00:00:33.649 --> 00:00:37.250 unseen, challenge the status quo, and share 9 00:00:37.250 --> 00:00:41.090 stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive 10 00:00:41.090 --> 00:00:44.905 in. Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down 11 00:00:44.905 --> 00:00:48.665 after a long day, let's connect, reflect, and 12 00:00:48.665 --> 00:00:52.425 inspire action together. Don't forget, you 13 00:00:52.425 --> 00:00:55.385 can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to 14 00:00:55.385 --> 00:00:57.140 jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 15 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:02.739 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 16 00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:07.200 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 17 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:10.755 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 18 00:01:14.655 --> 00:01:16.995 Today is episode 146 19 00:01:18.655 --> 00:01:21.155 with the title, championing 20 00:01:22.189 --> 00:01:25.729 inclusion through sport. And I have the absolute 21 00:01:25.789 --> 00:01:29.469 honor and privilege to welcome Dominique Dehaene. 22 00:01:29.469 --> 00:01:33.170 Dominique is the national director of Special Olympics 23 00:01:33.310 --> 00:01:36.995 Belgium and a devoted father, and he is 24 00:01:36.995 --> 00:01:40.615 on a special mission to promote the social 25 00:01:40.675 --> 00:01:43.335 inclusion of people with intellectual disabilities. 26 00:01:44.915 --> 00:01:48.640 And when I asked Dominique to describe his superpower, he said, turning passion 27 00:01:48.780 --> 00:01:51.920 into purpose by driving inclusion, awareness, 28 00:01:52.780 --> 00:01:56.080 and opportunity for people with intellectual disabilities. 29 00:01:57.260 --> 00:02:00.940 Hello, Dominique. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having 30 00:02:00.940 --> 00:02:04.725 me. How did I get on with your name? Did I did I get it 31 00:02:04.725 --> 00:02:08.485 close? Correct. Correct. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you for that. Bit 32 00:02:08.485 --> 00:02:12.245 nervous there. It's, it's the Flemish pronunciation because you're based in 33 00:02:12.245 --> 00:02:15.925 Belgium if obviously, as the national director of Special Olympics. You're based in 34 00:02:15.925 --> 00:02:19.650 Belgium? Correct. Office is based in Brussels, but I myself 35 00:02:19.650 --> 00:02:23.410 live on the French border. I always say I live in the last 36 00:02:23.410 --> 00:02:27.010 house in Belgium, so my my neighbor is French, so, 37 00:02:27.569 --> 00:02:31.375 very peculiar way of of living. We live on 38 00:02:31.375 --> 00:02:34.975 the countryside, so it's a commute every day from 160 39 00:02:34.975 --> 00:02:38.815 kilometers single way, but, it's worth it. I like 40 00:02:38.815 --> 00:02:42.495 my job and I like, where I live, so, best of 41 00:02:42.495 --> 00:02:46.190 both worlds. Best of both worlds. Yeah. So I guess you're also 42 00:02:46.190 --> 00:02:49.630 the first house as well as the last house. Correct. Yeah. I didn't 43 00:02:49.630 --> 00:02:53.310 didn't quite think of that. So, yeah, it it 44 00:02:53.310 --> 00:02:56.530 is. It is. Fantastic. So you 45 00:02:57.150 --> 00:03:00.145 champion inclusion through sport, 46 00:03:01.485 --> 00:03:05.325 with a special focus on intellectual disabilities. Do you want to tell us a bit 47 00:03:05.325 --> 00:03:08.545 more about what do you mean by the term intellectual disabilities? 48 00:03:09.965 --> 00:03:13.490 Well, it's it's, you know, we all know someone with, with an 49 00:03:13.490 --> 00:03:16.850 intellectual disability if we start thinking about it. We all know 50 00:03:16.850 --> 00:03:19.110 someone with with an intellectual disability. 51 00:03:20.530 --> 00:03:23.890 Within Special Olympics, it's, you know, 52 00:03:23.890 --> 00:03:27.435 defined as someone with an IQ not higher 53 00:03:27.435 --> 00:03:31.135 than 75, but, you know, it could have been 76, 74, 54 00:03:31.275 --> 00:03:34.814 but you know, that's the definition we use, 55 00:03:35.194 --> 00:03:37.049 you know, and there's a whole range of people with intellectual disabilities, like there's a 56 00:03:37.049 --> 00:03:38.870 whole range of people 57 00:03:40.849 --> 00:03:44.290 without intellectual disabilities. You know, we have people with 58 00:03:44.290 --> 00:03:48.129 autism, people with Down syndrome, you know, the, I 59 00:03:48.129 --> 00:03:51.650 would say the classic people with intellectual disability. And 60 00:03:51.650 --> 00:03:55.435 so what we do is, well, our aim 61 00:03:55.815 --> 00:03:59.655 is to, to convince people not to look at their 62 00:03:59.655 --> 00:04:03.415 disability, but look beyond their disability and look at their talents. 63 00:04:03.415 --> 00:04:07.000 And we strive indeed for an inclusive society 64 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:10.680 where people with intellectual disabilities, anyone 65 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:13.980 else can, can play a full role in, 66 00:04:14.920 --> 00:04:18.680 regarding their talents and, disregarding, I would say their 67 00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:22.465 disabilities. And for us, the means to get 68 00:04:22.465 --> 00:04:24.645 there is sports because sports, 69 00:04:27.185 --> 00:04:30.945 it unifies people, we have what we call unified sports as 70 00:04:30.945 --> 00:04:34.560 well, where people with intellectual disabilities play together with people 71 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:38.319 without intellectual disabilities. But we try 72 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:42.080 to convince people with intellectual disabilities to do sports and 73 00:04:42.080 --> 00:04:45.825 through sports, they work on their health, also on mental health. 74 00:04:45.905 --> 00:04:49.505 They get much more self confidence. We have seen people 75 00:04:49.505 --> 00:04:53.345 change during the course of years. They were very, very shy, 76 00:04:53.345 --> 00:04:56.785 would not speak in front of public, would not even engage any 77 00:04:56.785 --> 00:05:00.225 conversation, would now, you know, give interviews in front of 78 00:05:00.225 --> 00:05:03.520 cameras, etcetera. So it's really about self confidence 79 00:05:03.819 --> 00:05:07.660 through sports and then showing other people what these people with 80 00:05:07.660 --> 00:05:11.500 IDD are capable of, not only in sports, but also in 81 00:05:11.500 --> 00:05:15.340 everyday life. So, we work not only with athletes, not only for 82 00:05:15.340 --> 00:05:18.875 athletes, we work with athletes, with people with IDD, and 83 00:05:18.875 --> 00:05:22.634 our goal is getting to a 84 00:05:22.634 --> 00:05:26.315 full inclusion of people with IDD. Yeah, just for anybody who's listening who 85 00:05:26.315 --> 00:05:29.820 hasn't heard of that. Not to talk about people with 86 00:05:30.060 --> 00:05:33.280 intellectual disabilities all the time, so, I'll use the term IDD. 87 00:05:33.580 --> 00:05:37.120 IDD. Yeah. So I'm I'm aware of the term ASD, autistic 88 00:05:37.180 --> 00:05:40.940 spectrum disorder Yeah. Or diagnosis or whatever phrase 89 00:05:40.940 --> 00:05:43.595 because sometimes the word disorder can 90 00:05:44.634 --> 00:05:48.395 it implies a stereotype as well, doesn't it? It sort of implies there's something wrong 91 00:05:48.395 --> 00:05:52.235 with you. It's not there's something wrong with you. You're absolutely perfect as 92 00:05:52.235 --> 00:05:55.830 you are. You just have a a different skill set. 93 00:05:56.710 --> 00:06:00.550 It's about intellectual and developmental disabilities. You 94 00:06:00.550 --> 00:06:04.229 know, it's the development in which is different, 95 00:06:04.229 --> 00:06:07.990 let's say. So Yep. Correct. Excuse me. So it's avoiding the 96 00:06:07.990 --> 00:06:11.430 word disorder, medicalizing it, pathologizing it. It's 97 00:06:11.965 --> 00:06:14.705 Correct. Still examining the stigma. People have a different characteristic. 98 00:06:15.884 --> 00:06:19.324 Correct. Like we all do, but there's somewhat more 99 00:06:19.324 --> 00:06:22.845 outspoken, I would say. I myself have, because you 100 00:06:22.845 --> 00:06:26.445 mentioned it, devoted father. I try to be. I'm a father who's not 101 00:06:26.445 --> 00:06:29.699 very who can be pretty absent in 102 00:06:31.840 --> 00:06:35.680 our household, but, you know, I, the time I spend 103 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:39.440 with my family, I make it real quality time. We have 104 00:06:39.440 --> 00:06:43.014 our son, ourselves, a son with autism, 105 00:06:43.074 --> 00:06:46.835 his IQ would be 77, so he's not really, he's not 106 00:06:46.835 --> 00:06:50.595 categorized as a person with intellectual disability, but, 107 00:06:50.595 --> 00:06:53.895 you know, we know, autism and 108 00:06:54.514 --> 00:06:58.020 the challenges it brings, but also the advantages it 109 00:06:58.020 --> 00:07:01.380 brings. You look at the world differently through the eyes of a 110 00:07:01.380 --> 00:07:04.760 person with autism, especially when you're so close 111 00:07:05.220 --> 00:07:08.820 to him, so it opens your mind, it 112 00:07:08.820 --> 00:07:12.475 opens your perspective on some ideas you have, 113 00:07:12.475 --> 00:07:15.615 so it opens your perspective on the world. You know, 114 00:07:15.995 --> 00:07:19.835 initially because it's something that crosses your path, 115 00:07:19.835 --> 00:07:23.675 which you're not expecting, so because mostly it was, he was our 116 00:07:23.675 --> 00:07:27.370 first born as well, so it's something you don't expect and 117 00:07:27.370 --> 00:07:31.050 all of a sudden it's there in your life. You can't deny it 118 00:07:31.050 --> 00:07:34.810 if you would like to deny it, but yeah, it's something 119 00:07:34.810 --> 00:07:38.410 you have to deal with and you deal with it and I had the last 120 00:07:38.410 --> 00:07:42.195 Saturday, I did a presentation with my son 121 00:07:42.195 --> 00:07:45.955 together. We presented our story, well, the story of our family. 122 00:07:45.955 --> 00:07:49.795 He spoke in front of a public of 50 people about his life and 123 00:07:49.795 --> 00:07:53.015 it was heartwarming to see where 124 00:07:53.990 --> 00:07:57.690 well, let's say we got him, he got himself. We always had, 125 00:07:57.990 --> 00:08:01.830 and I'm trying to do this for the people we're working for now, people with 126 00:08:01.830 --> 00:08:05.510 ID. Let's not look 127 00:08:05.510 --> 00:08:09.025 at the limits or the limitations on beforehand. You know, 128 00:08:09.025 --> 00:08:12.705 it's, if you always say, no, no, no, that will not be possible 129 00:08:12.705 --> 00:08:15.685 because of the disability. 130 00:08:16.465 --> 00:08:20.064 Yeah. You will never get anywhere. Just go and see where the 131 00:08:20.064 --> 00:08:23.560 limits are and if if you meet the limits, then you know, 132 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:27.400 okay, this is as far as we can go, but at least you 133 00:08:27.400 --> 00:08:30.759 will have reached that limit and you will not have 134 00:08:30.759 --> 00:08:34.034 stayed at the beginning and not have reached 135 00:08:34.274 --> 00:08:38.115 anything. And for some, the limits are pretty close. For others, they 136 00:08:38.115 --> 00:08:41.554 will be further away, but you know, 137 00:08:41.554 --> 00:08:44.995 like anyone else, just try to make the best of the 138 00:08:44.995 --> 00:08:48.620 talents you have and try to, you 139 00:08:48.620 --> 00:08:52.140 know, put the limits a little further away always. And second 140 00:08:52.140 --> 00:08:55.900 thing, me and my wife always did, we were always very 141 00:08:55.900 --> 00:08:59.660 open about our son's disability, autism, you know, 142 00:08:59.660 --> 00:09:03.235 it's not something you have to hide or put away. 143 00:09:04.495 --> 00:09:07.955 My wife is very active on Facebook. I always say if, 144 00:09:08.255 --> 00:09:11.695 my wife didn't, put anything on Facebook during 2 145 00:09:11.695 --> 00:09:14.995 days, Mark Zuckerberg calls just to see what's going on. 146 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:19.080 So, now she's very active, but we share, you know, the good stories, but also 147 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:22.700 the bad stories. You know, when her son had a meltdown and 148 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:26.920 there was a crisis, you know, we're being open about 149 00:09:26.920 --> 00:09:30.405 it, not to 150 00:09:30.405 --> 00:09:33.625 ridicule him or, but just to say, yes, this is 151 00:09:34.245 --> 00:09:38.005 what life is also about, but it's also about going to a 152 00:09:38.005 --> 00:09:41.625 restaurant and my son at 8, 9 years old, 153 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:46.400 passing by all the tables and wishing everybody a good 154 00:09:46.400 --> 00:09:50.020 meal where the first looks are you, what the hell, and then you see people, 155 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:54.080 actually, why don't we do this kind of thing more often and wish 156 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:57.460 everybody the best or a good meal or anything, be more 157 00:09:57.685 --> 00:10:01.045 friendly and more open to each other. So there's a lot to 158 00:10:01.045 --> 00:10:04.805 learn from people with IDD, and that's what we're trying to 159 00:10:04.805 --> 00:10:08.565 do through sports. When you were talking, I was thinking, my mind was 160 00:10:08.565 --> 00:10:12.080 racing on, thinking, when you said something about, you know, your son's 161 00:10:12.540 --> 00:10:16.320 IQ is around 77, the IDD is around 75 162 00:10:16.380 --> 00:10:19.980 as as the threshold. And what we we've gotta be 163 00:10:19.980 --> 00:10:23.760 careful of if we don't set our expectations on their capability. 164 00:10:24.695 --> 00:10:27.975 Because you you got me thinking, so, I mean, I don't know what my IQ 165 00:10:27.975 --> 00:10:31.255 is. Let me let me say it's 140 or something. I don't know. Is that 166 00:10:31.255 --> 00:10:35.015 typical, I guess? I I hang out with people who have a super high 167 00:10:35.015 --> 00:10:38.795 IQ. They're they're chess world grandmasters, and their IQ is 175. 168 00:10:40.290 --> 00:10:43.970 Would they how would I feel if they were judging my 140 IQ 169 00:10:43.970 --> 00:10:47.570 against their their world chess champions, almost dismissing my 170 00:10:47.570 --> 00:10:51.330 capability of intellectual reasoning versus their own? I'd be 171 00:10:51.330 --> 00:10:54.685 pretty upset. So as you as you were talking about, 172 00:10:54.905 --> 00:10:58.665 I completely understand what you're saying there in terms of we we 173 00:10:58.665 --> 00:11:02.445 can't set our limitations on our beliefs about someone's capability. 174 00:11:03.225 --> 00:11:07.060 We have to almost embrace their opportunity 175 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:10.880 to be who they are and celebrate their wins and 176 00:11:10.880 --> 00:11:14.720 encourage them to do better, to growth to grow within their capabilities. And 177 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:18.400 I think without sounding benevolent and sort of kind of too 178 00:11:18.400 --> 00:11:22.204 maternal here. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because there are this getting 179 00:11:22.204 --> 00:11:24.625 back to the the the the sports aspect, 180 00:11:25.805 --> 00:11:28.945 you know, what we do, we are an Olympic organization, 181 00:11:29.245 --> 00:11:33.084 worldwide Olympic organization. You know, we have the regular Olympics, 182 00:11:33.084 --> 00:11:36.860 we have Paralympics, then there's special Olympics for people with intellectual 183 00:11:36.920 --> 00:11:40.680 disabilities, but this is sports, this is competition. This is not 184 00:11:40.680 --> 00:11:44.279 just people with IDD, oh, look at them, how cute they are, they're doing 185 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:47.875 sports as well. No, this is competition. They train to be in our 186 00:11:47.875 --> 00:11:51.555 national games, they train to win a gold medal, they're very 187 00:11:51.555 --> 00:11:55.154 excited when they win a medal, they're very disappointed when they 188 00:11:55.154 --> 00:11:58.755 don't win a medal, and I have to correct something 189 00:11:58.755 --> 00:12:02.370 because a lot of people always think, yeah, yeah, within Special 190 00:12:02.370 --> 00:12:06.210 Olympics, everyone wins a medal. No, that's not true. Everyone 191 00:12:06.210 --> 00:12:09.890 gets a medal, but there's only 1 bronze, 1 silver and 1 gold 192 00:12:09.890 --> 00:12:13.490 medal, so they learn to win, they learn to lose, they 193 00:12:13.490 --> 00:12:17.154 learn successes and disappointments. So it's 194 00:12:17.154 --> 00:12:20.774 just like any other sportsman or sportswoman, this 195 00:12:20.995 --> 00:12:24.355 is what they do. But just, we have our 196 00:12:24.355 --> 00:12:27.735 own Olympic oath, which is let me win. 197 00:12:28.270 --> 00:12:32.029 If I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt. And I 198 00:12:32.029 --> 00:12:35.330 think that's something we should all live by 199 00:12:35.870 --> 00:12:39.230 in daily life. We are not always successful in 200 00:12:39.230 --> 00:12:42.990 what we try to achieve. Some things work, 201 00:12:42.990 --> 00:12:46.735 some other things don't, but it's sometimes 202 00:12:46.875 --> 00:12:50.635 okay to fail if only you try, so that's the 203 00:12:50.635 --> 00:12:53.295 spirit we see with our athletes. 204 00:12:55.515 --> 00:12:58.495 Just an anecdote. I wasn't there, but in 2023, 205 00:12:59.820 --> 00:13:03.580 our athletes came back from the World Games in Berlin, so we have 206 00:13:03.580 --> 00:13:07.340 World Games as well, where people like the Olympics, people from all 207 00:13:07.340 --> 00:13:10.800 over the world come together to compete in sports. 208 00:13:11.834 --> 00:13:15.135 And some athletes, you know, they gain few gold medals 209 00:13:15.274 --> 00:13:19.115 and let's say someone had 4 gold medals. We saw someone 210 00:13:19.115 --> 00:13:22.555 with 3 silver medals. I don't have a silver medal. Would you like to exchange 211 00:13:22.555 --> 00:13:26.370 your medal for my gold medal? So, you know, they compete 212 00:13:26.370 --> 00:13:29.970 for it. They win. They, you 213 00:13:29.970 --> 00:13:33.650 know, they're very glad to win. In the end, 214 00:13:33.650 --> 00:13:36.870 it's just sports and it's relative. It's the friendship 215 00:13:37.490 --> 00:13:41.255 and the bonding is, and and self confidence and and the 216 00:13:41.255 --> 00:13:45.095 growing is at least as important as as the competition. And that's 217 00:13:45.095 --> 00:13:48.935 something I think we can all we can all learn from how they lift 218 00:13:48.935 --> 00:13:52.075 things and and We had, our 2 children, 219 00:13:53.540 --> 00:13:57.380 best part 30 years ago. So they're in their thirties now. And just after 220 00:13:57.380 --> 00:14:00.980 our daughter was born in 1992, our family friends, they had 221 00:14:00.980 --> 00:14:04.120 their son. And their son was born with Downes. 222 00:14:05.555 --> 00:14:09.315 We, as 2 families, we we went on holiday together. We used to go 223 00:14:09.315 --> 00:14:12.935 camping together and hang out a lot. Their son 224 00:14:13.954 --> 00:14:17.635 was fully part of our our family group and our our 225 00:14:17.635 --> 00:14:21.270 friendship group, We and I I I believe I I became a better person 226 00:14:21.890 --> 00:14:25.650 through knowing him, and our children became better people through knowing 227 00:14:25.650 --> 00:14:29.490 him. And he was just part of a part of the team. He 228 00:14:29.490 --> 00:14:33.055 had different needs. He he ate differently. His capabilities 229 00:14:33.195 --> 00:14:36.955 weren't as great. He had, he got a fast pass at the theme parks 230 00:14:36.955 --> 00:14:39.915 instead of having to wait. So he had some bonuses as far as our children 231 00:14:39.915 --> 00:14:43.515 are concerned. But, yeah, I think I got to 232 00:14:43.515 --> 00:14:46.895 learn that Downes wasn't a disability. It was just 233 00:14:47.190 --> 00:14:50.950 he had a different way of enjoying his life. And he laughed. He cried. He 234 00:14:50.950 --> 00:14:54.710 got excited, and he he won and and and loved loved being 235 00:14:54.710 --> 00:14:58.470 part of things. And and he's now in his 30s. He 236 00:14:58.470 --> 00:15:01.945 has a job. He still lives with his parents because I think that is inevitably 237 00:15:01.945 --> 00:15:04.905 the way it's gonna be whilst there's enough capability to look after him. But, you 238 00:15:04.905 --> 00:15:08.345 know, he he has a very productive life, and he has a girlfriend and does 239 00:15:08.345 --> 00:15:12.105 stuff. And I think if we look back for even 240 00:15:12.105 --> 00:15:15.860 40 years, people were written off. They'd 241 00:15:15.860 --> 00:15:19.700 almost said, you're you you this is as far as you can go. You 242 00:15:19.700 --> 00:15:23.540 have to live in a home. You have to be in 2nd class schooling. You 243 00:15:23.540 --> 00:15:27.175 have to be marginalized. But I think, 244 00:15:27.555 --> 00:15:29.895 correct me if I'm wrong, but the Special Olympics, Paralympics 245 00:15:31.075 --> 00:15:33.815 sport is is putting people in a better light 246 00:15:34.595 --> 00:15:38.115 where people are just part of society, and we we embrace 247 00:15:38.115 --> 00:15:41.880 them. Exactly. Exactly. Well, last year well, this year when 248 00:15:41.880 --> 00:15:45.640 during our national games, I had one volunteer, our oldest volunteer 249 00:15:45.640 --> 00:15:49.480 because we work a lot with volunteers, of course, it's not, you know, we need 250 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:52.904 volunteers to organize the activities. I think this 251 00:15:52.904 --> 00:15:56.265 man was 78, 79, something like that, so he was 252 00:15:56.265 --> 00:15:59.865 there from in the beginning, especially because Belgium started 253 00:15:59.865 --> 00:16:03.245 in 1979, and he said 254 00:16:03.305 --> 00:16:06.899 exactly that, he said, yeah, in the beginning we were 255 00:16:06.899 --> 00:16:10.600 afraid of these people. You know, it's always a bit an awkward moment 256 00:16:11.060 --> 00:16:14.100 if you ran into some of them and then, you know, yeah, we were a 257 00:16:14.100 --> 00:16:17.779 bit scared. He was very open about it and like I said, 4 years ago, 258 00:16:17.779 --> 00:16:21.485 we just, as you say, we just put them away in a home and that 259 00:16:21.485 --> 00:16:25.245 was it. Now he says, if you, if you walk 10 meters in our 260 00:16:25.245 --> 00:16:29.084 national games, you get 15 high fives. It's they're, they're, they're all there. They're all 261 00:16:29.084 --> 00:16:32.605 very enthusiastic. You get hugs, you get high fives. Everyone loves each 262 00:16:32.605 --> 00:16:36.390 other. Everyone respects each other. So we we've come a long way. We 263 00:16:36.390 --> 00:16:40.149 can't deny that we've come a long way. And I think special in 264 00:16:40.149 --> 00:16:43.670 these worldwide has played an important role in that 265 00:16:43.670 --> 00:16:47.190 and still will play an important role in the 266 00:16:47.190 --> 00:16:50.835 future, but there is still a long way to go. 267 00:16:51.375 --> 00:16:55.055 You know, regarding employment, not all of our athletes, not all people 268 00:16:55.055 --> 00:16:58.815 with intellectual disabilities get the chance to, yeah, 269 00:16:58.815 --> 00:17:02.495 do a job they like, or they're actually good at. You know, 270 00:17:02.495 --> 00:17:06.319 people are still, companies are still a bit reluctant to employ 271 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:09.839 people with intellectual disabilities. It's not always easy. It 272 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:13.599 comes with challenges. Let's be honest about it, but you 273 00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:17.359 know, they can overcome the challenges they live with their whole 274 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:20.984 life, so why would a company not be able to overcome 275 00:17:20.984 --> 00:17:24.684 their challenges with them? And just that little, 276 00:17:24.984 --> 00:17:27.644 everyone needs, has some specific 277 00:17:28.504 --> 00:17:32.125 needs within their job or, you know, where no one 278 00:17:32.264 --> 00:17:36.090 is the same as anyone else, so, you know, there's, they come 279 00:17:36.090 --> 00:17:39.310 with a little more challenges, nothing that can be 280 00:17:40.890 --> 00:17:44.430 overcome with little help or the good mindset 281 00:17:44.650 --> 00:17:48.090 from, companies or institutions or 282 00:17:48.090 --> 00:17:51.434 whatever. So, yeah, I always think 283 00:17:51.575 --> 00:17:54.934 they live with these challenges every 284 00:17:54.934 --> 00:17:58.534 day, so how hard can it be for us to just 285 00:17:58.534 --> 00:18:02.235 adapt just a little to, overcome 286 00:18:02.294 --> 00:18:05.720 these challenges with them? Can be that hard, can it? 287 00:18:07.060 --> 00:18:10.440 We have a cafe locally, a a social enterprise cafe, 288 00:18:11.140 --> 00:18:14.980 which is exclusively staffed by people 289 00:18:14.980 --> 00:18:18.580 with IDD, I guess you you describe them. And there's about there's a 290 00:18:18.580 --> 00:18:22.225 small team of them. I they probably have one 291 00:18:22.225 --> 00:18:25.905 supervisor who is there to help them with money or 292 00:18:25.905 --> 00:18:29.425 other other needs or, I think, maybe sharp knives or or things 293 00:18:29.425 --> 00:18:33.105 where there's potentially a danger or where things can go wrong. But 294 00:18:33.105 --> 00:18:35.990 they are warm, friendly, productive. 295 00:18:36.850 --> 00:18:40.690 They work as a team. It's a joy to be there. And I I'm 296 00:18:40.690 --> 00:18:44.070 aware that there are other social enterprises, certainly in the UK, where 297 00:18:44.290 --> 00:18:47.764 people are doing productive work. Not our benevolence. 298 00:18:48.144 --> 00:18:51.445 These are profit making, sustainable small businesses. 299 00:18:52.065 --> 00:18:55.605 Correct. Giving people a a a purpose a bit. Like you said about sport, 300 00:18:56.304 --> 00:18:59.730 it's giving people a purpose. That's what we need as humans. We need a purpose 301 00:18:59.809 --> 00:19:03.250 and a passion and something to drive us forward, don't we? Exactly. Now I don't 302 00:19:03.250 --> 00:19:06.610 wanna talk about my son all the time, but he's just in that phase now. 303 00:19:06.610 --> 00:19:10.370 So he finished school in June, which was already a 304 00:19:10.370 --> 00:19:14.150 big achievement, not easy because he was in the last 3 years 305 00:19:17.505 --> 00:19:21.105 of secondary school, he was, you know, in a normal school, 306 00:19:21.105 --> 00:19:24.885 not another school for people with IDD, which was quite a challenge, 307 00:19:25.265 --> 00:19:28.885 so now he's looking for a job, but that takes time, 308 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:33.080 But you know, in September, after 3, 4 months, I just, 309 00:19:33.080 --> 00:19:36.840 we as parents said, you can't stay home forever, you have to do 310 00:19:36.840 --> 00:19:40.460 something, you know, he walks every day, so he gets out, 311 00:19:40.760 --> 00:19:43.455 that's not the point. But he started in 312 00:19:44.475 --> 00:19:48.154 Superheroes, it's called, so it's also with people with IDD where they 313 00:19:48.154 --> 00:19:51.855 serve soup and, with some bread, simple, simple things, 314 00:19:52.315 --> 00:19:56.050 but it keeps him occupied. We would all get 315 00:19:56.050 --> 00:19:59.490 sick if we just stayed home for the rest of our lives without 316 00:19:59.490 --> 00:20:02.790 saying it can happen, of course, but you gotta have a purpose 317 00:20:03.170 --> 00:20:06.950 as you say, and maybe just one more anecdote about 318 00:20:07.170 --> 00:20:10.924 my son. A Few weeks ago, he had difficulties getting out of bed, 319 00:20:10.924 --> 00:20:14.684 so my wife said, yeah, she felt something was wrong, but 320 00:20:14.684 --> 00:20:18.385 she didn't want to insist not to go into meltdown, 321 00:20:18.605 --> 00:20:22.205 so she left him alone. She left the house and 322 00:20:22.205 --> 00:20:25.780 then a a few hours later, we get a message from 323 00:20:25.780 --> 00:20:29.380 his supervisor, a text that he sent her 324 00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:32.840 saying, yeah, I was very stressed out this morning. I was 325 00:20:33.460 --> 00:20:37.215 afraid to come to work because I don't socially, I don't 326 00:20:37.215 --> 00:20:40.895 connect very well socially. I don't know the subjects you're talking 327 00:20:40.895 --> 00:20:44.735 about at noon. You know, they, they, I don't sympathise with the, 328 00:20:44.735 --> 00:20:48.195 you know, I don't feel these subjects. And then I feel obliged 329 00:20:48.255 --> 00:20:51.554 to talk with you, but I don't. And then maybe he will be thinking 330 00:20:51.810 --> 00:20:55.650 he's not interested, etcetera. So it was one big stress in his head, 331 00:20:55.650 --> 00:20:59.490 but despite that, he said, no, I can't flee from the 332 00:20:59.490 --> 00:21:03.090 stress. So he took the, well, he took the bus, which 333 00:21:03.090 --> 00:21:06.850 is already a 4 kilometers walk from our home. He took the bus, he 334 00:21:06.850 --> 00:21:10.585 went to work, explained to his supervisor what the problem was 335 00:21:10.585 --> 00:21:14.425 and they worked it out. So how many 336 00:21:14.425 --> 00:21:17.945 people without IDD would do such a 337 00:21:17.945 --> 00:21:21.420 thing? They would or go to work 338 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:25.240 and stress out all day without even touching the 339 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:29.080 subject with their colleagues or supervisors or as 340 00:21:29.080 --> 00:21:32.840 it happens as well and unfortunately people go in stress 341 00:21:32.840 --> 00:21:36.245 and burn out, etcetera, etcetera. So he was, you know, I would 342 00:21:36.245 --> 00:21:39.945 say emotionally and intellectually very 343 00:21:40.325 --> 00:21:44.164 bright to handle the situation as, as he did. So, yeah, 344 00:21:44.164 --> 00:21:47.764 something else we can learn from these people is being open, 345 00:21:47.764 --> 00:21:51.480 being, open about emotions or feelings or 346 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:55.240 stress or or positive things as well, of course. So, Yeah. 347 00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:57.340 I know many people with social anxiety, 348 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:02.680 extreme introversion, limiting beliefs, imposter syndrome, which is 349 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:06.525 debilitating, or anxiety of using an escalator or 350 00:22:06.525 --> 00:22:10.205 a lift or crossing the road. It it doesn't 351 00:22:10.205 --> 00:22:13.664 come with IQ. It comes with your own 352 00:22:14.044 --> 00:22:17.565 limiting beliefs, whatever they may be, wherever your red line of fear 353 00:22:17.565 --> 00:22:21.110 is. It's it's in all of us. We all have our I can't go 354 00:22:21.110 --> 00:22:24.870 there things. Yeah. It's it it doesn't mean to say that someone with 355 00:22:24.870 --> 00:22:28.010 IDD or borderline IDD or autism 356 00:22:28.630 --> 00:22:32.070 is any more effective. Maybe it's just more hype we're more hyper aware of it, 357 00:22:32.070 --> 00:22:35.914 I guess. Correct. No. And I see it with a lot of our 358 00:22:35.914 --> 00:22:39.434 athletes who now outperform themselves in 359 00:22:39.434 --> 00:22:43.195 sports, but also then you hear the stories of 360 00:22:43.195 --> 00:22:46.950 their parents who say, yeah, this would not have happened 6 361 00:22:46.950 --> 00:22:50.630 years ago because he or she was not able to do 362 00:22:50.630 --> 00:22:54.090 this or did not have the confidence to do it, or 363 00:22:54.550 --> 00:22:57.929 it's the network who, you know, the people he or she knows 364 00:22:58.565 --> 00:23:02.325 that lifted him or her up and, made 365 00:23:02.325 --> 00:23:06.085 him do things they wouldn't have done before, be it in school, 366 00:23:06.085 --> 00:23:09.545 be it in sports, be it in social context, whatever. 367 00:23:09.684 --> 00:23:13.445 So we truly believe that sports is, is 368 00:23:13.445 --> 00:23:16.559 an entry to, to, to much more fulfilling 369 00:23:17.100 --> 00:23:20.880 life, I think, I can say. And not only for the athletes, 370 00:23:21.020 --> 00:23:24.460 but also for the environment and also 371 00:23:24.460 --> 00:23:28.024 for, society as a whole. And that's 372 00:23:28.024 --> 00:23:31.385 why it's so important to organize our 373 00:23:31.385 --> 00:23:35.144 activities. You know, we're probably the only Special 374 00:23:35.144 --> 00:23:38.664 Olympics branch in the world who organizes our national 375 00:23:38.664 --> 00:23:42.345 games at the level we do. We have 3,400 athletes 376 00:23:42.345 --> 00:23:46.050 participating. You know, it's in a way it's 377 00:23:46.050 --> 00:23:49.510 their moment to shine, but it's also 378 00:23:50.050 --> 00:23:53.730 a moment to show the world, well specifically Belgium, you 379 00:23:53.730 --> 00:23:57.410 know, we're capable of much more than you 380 00:23:57.410 --> 00:24:00.965 think, so yeah, treat us as you would treat anyone, 381 00:24:01.105 --> 00:24:04.865 anyone else. So that's why, you know, as 382 00:24:04.865 --> 00:24:08.705 I say, sports is an entry to, to, to much more. We want our 383 00:24:08.705 --> 00:24:12.340 athletes not only to train within their sports club, but why 384 00:24:12.340 --> 00:24:16.179 not let them, you know, open the bar or be in the board of 385 00:24:16.179 --> 00:24:19.779 their sports club or, you know, include them in 386 00:24:19.779 --> 00:24:23.399 any other aspects of their club or school 387 00:24:24.419 --> 00:24:28.225 or job they like and they are capable of. So, and that's 388 00:24:28.225 --> 00:24:31.985 what we call championing, through sports. We all live in 389 00:24:31.985 --> 00:24:35.825 our own heads, don't we? But so our our sense of self, our sense 390 00:24:35.825 --> 00:24:39.665 of identity, all of our reference points are generated by 391 00:24:39.665 --> 00:24:42.770 our own brain. Everything is relative to how we perceive. 392 00:24:44.029 --> 00:24:47.470 I don't perceive myself as any different to anybody 393 00:24:47.470 --> 00:24:51.070 else, really. I mean, I have things I like doing, things I don't like doing, 394 00:24:51.070 --> 00:24:54.655 things I'm good at, things I'm not so good at. Presumably, people with 395 00:24:54.655 --> 00:24:58.095 IDD, your son included, their reference point of 396 00:24:58.095 --> 00:25:01.775 self has always been the same. They probably don't 397 00:25:01.775 --> 00:25:05.490 perceive themselves as any different than anybody else just 398 00:25:05.490 --> 00:25:08.450 with things they're good at and with things they're bad at. So they probably get 399 00:25:08.450 --> 00:25:12.210 quite confused when people judge them or create 400 00:25:12.210 --> 00:25:15.090 limiting situations around them because they go 401 00:25:15.970 --> 00:25:19.035