WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:00.820 Foreign 2 00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:10.648 welcome to Inclusion Bites, your 3 00:00:10.704 --> 00:00:14.296 sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm 4 00:00:14.328 --> 00:00:18.152 Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the 5 00:00:18.176 --> 00:00:21.784 heart of inclusion, belonging and societal 6 00:00:21.832 --> 00:00:25.560 transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create 7 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:28.880 a world where everyone not only belongs but 8 00:00:28.920 --> 00:00:32.752 thrives? You're not alone. Join me as we 9 00:00:32.776 --> 00:00:36.320 uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo 10 00:00:36.480 --> 00:00:40.096 and share stories that resonate deep within. 11 00:00:40.248 --> 00:00:43.808 Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee 12 00:00:43.904 --> 00:00:47.072 or winding down after a long day, let's connect, 13 00:00:47.216 --> 00:00:50.620 reflect and inspire action together. 14 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:54.838 Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out 15 00:00:54.894 --> 00:00:55.158 to 16 00:00:55.214 --> 00:00:58.886 jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 17 00:00:59.038 --> 00:01:02.850 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 18 00:01:03.390 --> 00:01:07.190 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 19 00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:11.050 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 20 00:01:14.590 --> 00:01:18.050 Today is episode 148 21 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:22.060 with the title Allyship in Action 22 00:01:22.440 --> 00:01:26.208 and I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Julie 23 00:01:26.224 --> 00:01:29.920 Kratz. Julie is an allyship and 24 00:01:29.960 --> 00:01:33.584 inclusion speaker, consultant and author 25 00:01:33.752 --> 00:01:37.300 who helps leaders foster workplace environments. 26 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:41.808 She is a Forbes contributor and TEDx speaker and 27 00:01:41.864 --> 00:01:45.708 draws on her corporate experience to our organisations 28 00:01:45.884 --> 00:01:49.276 with actionable strategies for allyship and 29 00:01:49.348 --> 00:01:52.972 belonging. When I asked Julie to describe her 30 00:01:52.996 --> 00:01:56.620 superpower, she said it is her ability to 31 00:01:56.660 --> 00:02:00.508 transform allyship into actionable strategies 32 00:02:00.684 --> 00:02:03.520 that inspire inclusive leadership. 33 00:02:04.100 --> 00:02:06.920 Hello. Hello Julie. Welcome to the show. 34 00:02:07.780 --> 00:02:11.622 Thanks so much for having me, Joanne. Absolute pleasure. We just 35 00:02:11.646 --> 00:02:14.534 chatted away for probably half an hour in the green room and burnt a lot 36 00:02:14.542 --> 00:02:18.118 of time. A fascinating conversation. I can't wait to bring some of that into 37 00:02:18.254 --> 00:02:22.102 the conversation for our listeners today. So thank you for joining us. So 38 00:02:22.126 --> 00:02:25.350 Julie, you have been on a journey from 39 00:02:25.390 --> 00:02:29.094 corporate and you've pivoted to become a leading voice 40 00:02:29.142 --> 00:02:32.790 in allyship and inspiring others. So what sparked your 41 00:02:32.830 --> 00:02:35.530 passion for creating more inclusive workplaces? 42 00:02:36.610 --> 00:02:40.362 Great question. I So I spent 12 years in corporate before starting my 43 00:02:40.386 --> 00:02:43.930 own business nearly 10 years ago. So big year this year, 44 00:02:43.970 --> 00:02:47.690 10th anniversary. I never really dreamed of being an entrepreneur, 45 00:02:47.770 --> 00:02:51.498 but it was out of the necessity of my 46 00:02:51.554 --> 00:02:55.402 own difficult time surviving in corporate America. So I'm here in the 47 00:02:55.426 --> 00:02:59.258 States and it's, you know, I'm sure similar in other parts 48 00:02:59.274 --> 00:03:02.510 of the world, but that sense of belonging, 49 00:03:02.980 --> 00:03:06.652 the sense of inclusion, having leaders I could trust and feel 50 00:03:06.676 --> 00:03:09.680 psychologically safe with, just didn't exist. 51 00:03:10.180 --> 00:03:13.980 And I continued to think it was me and I needed to 52 00:03:14.020 --> 00:03:17.692 change or it was the industry or if I get my mba, then 53 00:03:17.716 --> 00:03:21.308 things will be better. And no matter how 54 00:03:21.364 --> 00:03:24.520 hard I worked, I kept finding the same problem 55 00:03:25.700 --> 00:03:29.296 and Then it dawned on me when I had my daughter, I just 56 00:03:29.428 --> 00:03:33.192 couldn't leave her to go to a workplace and 57 00:03:33.216 --> 00:03:36.872 work that didn't. And this happens a lot to folks that 58 00:03:36.896 --> 00:03:40.600 are caregivers, men and women and non binary folks like 59 00:03:40.640 --> 00:03:44.136 it's you just realise your 60 00:03:44.208 --> 00:03:47.780 purpose of life is much deeper than a paycheck. And 61 00:03:48.480 --> 00:03:52.200 she was a year old. I'm the primary breadwinner and took 62 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:55.960 a leap of faith that other people were having a similar challenge. I did 63 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:59.564 and needed tools that I didn't have when I was a leader. 64 00:03:59.652 --> 00:04:02.840 And that's when next pivot point was born. And 65 00:04:03.460 --> 00:04:06.680 it became quite obvious to me in the first few years 66 00:04:07.220 --> 00:04:10.940 as I spent time in the community and talked with folks especially of different 67 00:04:10.980 --> 00:04:14.588 lived experience and identities from me that 68 00:04:14.724 --> 00:04:18.220 we needed allies. You know, us talking women, talking to each other about 69 00:04:18.260 --> 00:04:21.640 women's quote unquote issues which are societal issues 70 00:04:22.340 --> 00:04:25.746 isn't helpful. Um, it's therapeutic. It feels 71 00:04:25.778 --> 00:04:29.330 good, you know, to rant in the moment but it doesn't really 72 00:04:29.450 --> 00:04:33.122 evoke change. And so how do we engage allies 73 00:04:33.186 --> 00:04:36.882 in the conversation? It became quite clear to me that we 74 00:04:36.906 --> 00:04:40.642 needed to broaden the conversation. And so that's really my 75 00:04:40.666 --> 00:04:44.050 life's work. What I hope to leave the world with more allies in it 76 00:04:44.090 --> 00:04:47.458 than I found. I like that, I really like that because that, that, that sort 77 00:04:47.474 --> 00:04:50.994 of aligns with some of my ethos if you like. I, I get frustrated that 78 00:04:51.002 --> 00:04:53.858 I can't change the world. But what I came to realise was I can't change 79 00:04:53.914 --> 00:04:57.692 myself and I can change how I show up and I can 80 00:04:57.716 --> 00:05:01.324 show change how I influence those around me. So 81 00:05:01.412 --> 00:05:05.180 that's really the core of allyship really, isn't it? Isn't it just 82 00:05:05.220 --> 00:05:07.560 showing up and being the best you, you can be. 83 00:05:08.420 --> 00:05:12.108 Yeah, I think, I think that's the 84 00:05:12.164 --> 00:05:15.420 basic premise of allyship. The 85 00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:19.212 challenge is the works evolved and you know, we can look at the 86 00:05:19.236 --> 00:05:22.980 year 2020, right, and all the allies that came out. 87 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:28.072 It was much more of a performance. What we would call performative 88 00:05:28.136 --> 00:05:31.800 allyship is oh, I posted, I bought the 89 00:05:31.840 --> 00:05:35.640 thing from the black owned business. I, you know, said me 90 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:39.460 too is wrong. You know, just. That's great. 91 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:43.288 We absolutely need that. However, we need 92 00:05:43.344 --> 00:05:47.000 people to do more than that. And it's a big ask if you think about 93 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:50.824 it. I've been on my own journey for the last 10 years. 94 00:05:50.912 --> 00:05:54.664 I regretfully have not always been the best ally 95 00:05:54.712 --> 00:05:58.440 myself. I said and done things that were inappropriate. I 96 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:02.184 have said things that were not helpful and luckily 97 00:06:02.232 --> 00:06:05.880 people have called me in on that. And instead of getting defensive, 98 00:06:05.960 --> 00:06:08.820 which is kind of easy to do, 99 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:12.820 decided to use it as fuel to get better. And 100 00:06:13.520 --> 00:06:17.316 you know, I think, Joanne, we've asked people, it's a big ask, 101 00:06:17.468 --> 00:06:20.660 I think, for what it means to be an active ally. 102 00:06:20.820 --> 00:06:24.548 And that's where we're at now as we head into 2025. 103 00:06:24.604 --> 00:06:28.340 Right. Like thinking about the political polarisation, you know, especially 104 00:06:28.380 --> 00:06:32.052 in my country, I'm deeply concerned about our 105 00:06:32.076 --> 00:06:35.892 future. We need people in positions of power to 106 00:06:35.916 --> 00:06:39.540 share their power. And that, that is like a real 107 00:06:39.580 --> 00:06:43.012 conundrum. Right? Like, because if you have power, why do you want to share 108 00:06:43.036 --> 00:06:46.752 it? And we're seeing examples of people that they have power and 109 00:06:46.776 --> 00:06:50.560 they want more power. It's like, don't you have enough? Like at some 110 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:54.352 point, don't you want to share? Just for context. So you're, 111 00:06:54.496 --> 00:06:57.712 you live right in the middle of middle America, Indiana, I think it says you, 112 00:06:57.736 --> 00:07:01.340 you're in. Yes. And you mentioned 2020 and 113 00:07:01.880 --> 00:07:05.472 looking back, I mean it seems like yesterday, but also so far, 114 00:07:05.576 --> 00:07:09.222 so far back in time. It was pre Covid, at the beginning 115 00:07:09.336 --> 00:07:13.082 we had George Floyd, which started the Black Lives Matter or 116 00:07:13.186 --> 00:07:16.922 reignited the Black Lives Matter. We had Harvey Weinstein and all 117 00:07:16.946 --> 00:07:20.314 those other cases around the MeToo which sparked that in the US 118 00:07:20.402 --> 00:07:23.270 and some incidents in the UK as well. 119 00:07:23.810 --> 00:07:27.402 And then we had a lockdown and that 120 00:07:27.426 --> 00:07:30.874 created this huge wellbeing vacuum where people, 121 00:07:30.962 --> 00:07:34.490 everybody was suffering in a, in a, in a different 122 00:07:34.530 --> 00:07:38.138 way for common cause. Corporate America, corporate uk, 123 00:07:38.194 --> 00:07:41.798 corporate Europe, corporate everywhere. We think, how are we going to look after our people? 124 00:07:41.854 --> 00:07:45.526 And suddenly we saw all of this well being initiatives, people 125 00:07:45.598 --> 00:07:49.350 caring about people suddenly because even the people with 126 00:07:49.390 --> 00:07:53.222 privilege were being impacted by Covid. So suddenly they got 127 00:07:53.246 --> 00:07:57.094 it. And here we are in 2025 and the 128 00:07:57.102 --> 00:07:59.010 world's gone backwards again, hasn't it? 129 00:08:00.830 --> 00:08:04.342 Yeah, it's like a step forward, two steps back. I just 130 00:08:04.446 --> 00:08:07.410 detest that analogy, but I think that's very 131 00:08:07.910 --> 00:08:11.582 keen to describe where we're at right now, that it 132 00:08:11.606 --> 00:08:15.210 evoked generosity and a shared experience 133 00:08:15.510 --> 00:08:19.294 and a humility and a vulnerability in all of us because all 134 00:08:19.302 --> 00:08:23.150 of us were deeply affected. There wasn't a single human on the planet, like 135 00:08:23.190 --> 00:08:26.810 an extreme isolationist that didn't feel it right. 136 00:08:27.590 --> 00:08:30.862 But now it's led to us being more isolated and 137 00:08:30.886 --> 00:08:34.568 xenophobic and wanting to control 138 00:08:34.704 --> 00:08:38.232 things and it's almost like a whip effect. 139 00:08:38.336 --> 00:08:42.072 And I don't know what's in the future, but I have 140 00:08:42.096 --> 00:08:45.720 to think the reason we're getting the backlash is 141 00:08:45.760 --> 00:08:48.760 because it's working. There wouldn't be a target on 142 00:08:48.800 --> 00:08:52.280 DEI if it 143 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:55.928 wasn't achieving some success. You wouldn't bother with 144 00:08:55.984 --> 00:08:59.656 it. So it's a long game and I struggle 145 00:08:59.688 --> 00:09:03.496 with that because I am a very impatient person. Sometimes 146 00:09:03.528 --> 00:09:06.472 I think I just wasn't born at the right time. That I would have much 147 00:09:06.496 --> 00:09:09.672 more impact if we could be 20 years in the future where things would be 148 00:09:09.696 --> 00:09:12.968 better. But maybe now is the right time. This 149 00:09:13.024 --> 00:09:16.872 tumultuous turmoil that we're in, kind of getting used to 150 00:09:16.896 --> 00:09:20.568 it, you know, I would have been alarmed 10 years ago to see news stories 151 00:09:20.664 --> 00:09:24.440 we're seeing today. And now we're kind of desensitised, 152 00:09:24.520 --> 00:09:28.140 like, okay, yep, that's happening, sure, why not? 153 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:32.096 But the silver lining to all of this is 154 00:09:32.248 --> 00:09:35.968 change is happening demographically. 155 00:09:36.064 --> 00:09:39.216 It's demographics in our country for younger 156 00:09:39.248 --> 00:09:42.912 generations are. They are what they are. My 157 00:09:42.936 --> 00:09:46.784 daughter's generation, my daughter's 10, it is majority non white. 158 00:09:46.952 --> 00:09:50.688 That is a fact. And they will be entering the workforce much like Gen Z 159 00:09:50.744 --> 00:09:54.560 did, with the expectation of a diverse and inclusive experience. So 160 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:58.064 you can legislate around it. You can try to de. 161 00:09:58.152 --> 00:10:02.000 Knock. I don't even have indoctrin. The children were doing, they were not 162 00:10:02.040 --> 00:10:05.696 doing whatever you can try. But it's happening and 163 00:10:05.768 --> 00:10:09.472 it's going to continue to happen. And so we just have to keep. For 164 00:10:09.496 --> 00:10:13.168 me it's like keep that long view. 10, 20 years 165 00:10:13.224 --> 00:10:16.880 from now is probably the work that we're doing now will 166 00:10:16.920 --> 00:10:20.576 manifest much later. Is that as you mentioned, 167 00:10:20.608 --> 00:10:23.856 that I'm sort of pondering in my head, is that, is that what's going on? 168 00:10:23.928 --> 00:10:27.642 Is it that the fact that the people in power, people have the privilege are 169 00:10:27.666 --> 00:10:31.482 becoming the minority and they're almost like having to hack themselves in their 170 00:10:31.506 --> 00:10:35.226 own little communes or I would in the UK world, I'd 171 00:10:35.258 --> 00:10:38.106 say in their castle. I'm pretty sure in America you don't have so many castles. 172 00:10:38.138 --> 00:10:41.978 But I'm thinking about their in their old Norman Roman castles and putting 173 00:10:41.994 --> 00:10:45.082 the drawbridge up, hiding and saying, look, hang on a minute. If we stay in 174 00:10:45.106 --> 00:10:48.842 our castle and fight everybody off, we'll keep our 175 00:10:48.866 --> 00:10:52.596 power and privilege against the marauders and the unwashed. 176 00:10:52.628 --> 00:10:56.452 And the difference is that what's going on? Are people scared that they're losing their 177 00:10:56.556 --> 00:11:00.084 right to govern, if you like. Yeah, I think that's exactly 178 00:11:00.132 --> 00:11:03.540 it. There's a few falsehoods at play on the 179 00:11:03.580 --> 00:11:07.428 concept of the zero sum game. This is a big problem 180 00:11:07.484 --> 00:11:11.300 we have in capitalist societies where they're very much I 181 00:11:11.340 --> 00:11:14.868 win, you lose. I mean, we're taught that from a young age playing games. I 182 00:11:15.004 --> 00:11:18.320 hate losing and someone else winning doesn't mean I 183 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:22.080 lose. Like generally speaking, when we make things better 184 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:25.776 for the most marginalised, we make them better for everyone. Right. There's the curb 185 00:11:25.808 --> 00:11:29.584 cut effect for just disabled people like cut curbs. 186 00:11:29.632 --> 00:11:32.736 It made it easier for me as a walker, a runner, a 187 00:11:32.808 --> 00:11:36.496 stroller person, a bike rider. So it's, 188 00:11:36.528 --> 00:11:39.600 it's this zero sum game that we really have to cheque people on. How is 189 00:11:39.640 --> 00:11:43.418 making things better for someone else costing us? What is it costing us? 190 00:11:43.584 --> 00:11:47.334 And if you're in a position of power, I think is a really good gut 191 00:11:47.382 --> 00:11:50.694 cheque. I also think there is this last 192 00:11:50.782 --> 00:11:54.502 stand kind of narrative and I honestly thought we 193 00:11:54.526 --> 00:11:58.086 got that over with first Trump presidency, but apparently 194 00:11:58.118 --> 00:12:01.654 there's more ammo ready to come out. Not to use a 195 00:12:01.742 --> 00:12:05.570 violent analogy, but let's be honest, I mean it is, 196 00:12:06.350 --> 00:12:09.952 it does feel like to be white, 197 00:12:10.056 --> 00:12:13.856 for example. I think in, especially in America where we have not addressed 198 00:12:13.888 --> 00:12:17.680 our racial past, it is barely taught in schools, it is very much 199 00:12:17.720 --> 00:12:21.232 like slavery happened. We're good. Move on with your 200 00:12:21.256 --> 00:12:24.900 life. When you don't acknowledge 201 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:29.152 our problematic history, you're much more likely to 202 00:12:29.176 --> 00:12:32.060 repeat it. We know that's why we teach history. 203 00:12:32.680 --> 00:12:36.522 And so this whole. I have to take the. I need 204 00:12:36.546 --> 00:12:40.250 to hold on to the power as long as I can possibly hold 205 00:12:40.290 --> 00:12:44.090 on to that. And if that, I think in our country is 206 00:12:44.210 --> 00:12:47.866 whiteness, those are the people in power. 70 207 00:12:47.938 --> 00:12:51.642 plus percent of C suite leaders, Congress, you know, you 208 00:12:51.666 --> 00:12:55.354 just look at any body of power and this is really worldwide, 209 00:12:55.402 --> 00:12:59.082 but especially in our country is white and 210 00:12:59.106 --> 00:13:02.540 that doesn't reflect the diversity of the 211 00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:06.028 population. And I think too one last 212 00:13:06.084 --> 00:13:09.628 hypothesis is I think they're worried that there's going to be some 213 00:13:09.684 --> 00:13:13.388 revenge when the people you've kept down start 214 00:13:13.444 --> 00:13:16.668 to come up. Yeah, kind of like you think about 215 00:13:16.724 --> 00:13:20.460 revolutions in Europe. I mean they're setting the conditions for that 216 00:13:20.500 --> 00:13:24.220 to happen right now and I don't want to be a doomsday, but 217 00:13:24.260 --> 00:13:27.918 you can't keep people down for so long 218 00:13:27.974 --> 00:13:31.550 before they don't revolt or resist. It kind of happened in South Africa when 219 00:13:31.590 --> 00:13:35.070 the white minority rule came to an end and the black 220 00:13:35.110 --> 00:13:38.510 majority took over. The black population 221 00:13:38.590 --> 00:13:42.398 repossessed the white farms, the white people became 222 00:13:42.494 --> 00:13:45.250 marginalised or correctly marginalised. 223 00:13:46.070 --> 00:13:49.550 The country was reset and there's that active purging of the white 224 00:13:49.590 --> 00:13:53.198 population out of positions of power in organisations and 225 00:13:53.254 --> 00:13:56.892 land seizures and everything. I guess there is a track record here of what 226 00:13:56.916 --> 00:14:00.412 happens when the, the tide flips and so, yeah, I 227 00:14:00.436 --> 00:14:03.560 mean there's. Was it. 228 00:14:04.420 --> 00:14:08.044 Quoting US politics is probably not my strong point, but was it JFK said 229 00:14:08.132 --> 00:14:11.948 a rising tide floats all boats the same or something? Yeah, 230 00:14:12.124 --> 00:14:15.820 that was. But that analogy is so, so true. 231 00:14:15.980 --> 00:14:19.340 That was a 1960s thing and I think we've, we've forgotten that. I, 232 00:14:19.460 --> 00:14:23.240 Richard Nixon, if I remember correctly, was trying to. Before he was 233 00:14:25.110 --> 00:14:28.526 taken out of power, he was trying to get universal basic income. And if he'd 234 00:14:28.558 --> 00:14:32.126 have carried on with his presidency, it may well be that US implemented 235 00:14:32.158 --> 00:14:35.758 UBI in some shape or form. And those were radical policies to create 236 00:14:35.814 --> 00:14:39.262 inclusive environments and recognising the population, it's way ahead of its 237 00:14:39.286 --> 00:14:42.542 time. And now we've got Roe versus Wade being 238 00:14:42.566 --> 00:14:46.222 overturned and other things. In the us permanent action is 239 00:14:46.246 --> 00:14:49.646 probably. Going to be gay marriage next. I'm not even going to be surprised. 240 00:14:49.758 --> 00:14:53.430 Right. Tale though, isn't it, 241 00:14:53.470 --> 00:14:56.870 where they suddenly you're in a, you're in a same sex relationship and the next 242 00:14:56.910 --> 00:15:00.662 day you're not. Right. You're not married, not 243 00:15:00.686 --> 00:15:04.518 married anymore. You lose all your benefits, lose your rights and everything. You can't, 244 00:15:04.614 --> 00:15:08.262 can't fly on that passport. Trans people, they can't drive anymore in 245 00:15:08.286 --> 00:15:11.590 Florida because their past, their driving licence has suddenly been revoked. 246 00:15:11.750 --> 00:15:15.462 Yep. Yeah, got it right, 247 00:15:15.486 --> 00:15:19.316 didn't she? Yeah. In the 1990s, I was like, wow, how did you see that? 248 00:15:19.388 --> 00:15:23.124 Yeah, that's one of the disturbing shows that I 249 00:15:23.132 --> 00:15:26.948 allow myself to watch because I have to be very mindful about doing 250 00:15:27.004 --> 00:15:30.534 inclusion work day in, day out, 40, 251 00:15:30.601 --> 00:15:34.308 50 hours a week is, as you know, it's a lot, 252 00:15:34.444 --> 00:15:38.132 it's very taxing, mentally hard on our 253 00:15:38.156 --> 00:15:41.892 health. And Handmaid's Tale is one of 254 00:15:41.916 --> 00:15:45.736 my ones that I can get into for some reason because I think it's 255 00:15:45.768 --> 00:15:49.432 like, are we headed in this direction? And that was my first thought 256 00:15:49.456 --> 00:15:53.112 on November 6th when I woke up to the news. 257 00:15:53.216 --> 00:15:57.032 I was one completely shocked. And 258 00:15:57.056 --> 00:16:00.520 that just speaks to like the echo chambers we have here. I had no 259 00:16:00.560 --> 00:16:04.072 idea 51% of our country felt that way. I 260 00:16:04.096 --> 00:16:06.660 just didn't, I didn't think it was possible. 261 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:11.450 In my home state, we overwhelmingly voted for him. 262 00:16:11.750 --> 00:16:15.502 In my county, luckily we went the other direction. So 263 00:16:15.526 --> 00:16:19.342 we're just all in our own spaces talking to each other 264 00:16:19.366 --> 00:16:23.170 and not talking to the other groups. 265 00:16:24.150 --> 00:16:27.982 And this is how you get something like the Handmaid's Tale. This 266 00:16:28.006 --> 00:16:31.422 is how you get a reversal of rights when you see each other. As the 267 00:16:31.446 --> 00:16:34.846 enemy and dividing is finding those 268 00:16:34.918 --> 00:16:38.318 probar and Those differences between you out. So suddenly you're 269 00:16:38.334 --> 00:16:42.040 polarising women, you're polarising Hispanic and black 270 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:45.260 people, you polarising this. They go for him. Yeah, 271 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:49.400 hold your country's trash and you're rapists and you 272 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:52.820 voted for him. Like I, part of me wants to be like, 273 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:57.160 you deserve this, like, you voted for this. See what 274 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:01.000 happens. And that's spiteful and mean. But that was 275 00:17:01.040 --> 00:17:04.760 my reaction for the first few weeks. And as 276 00:17:04.800 --> 00:17:08.554 I've, you know, now two months later, kind of marinated on it, 277 00:17:08.642 --> 00:17:11.790 it's, it's gonna be okay. 278 00:17:12.450 --> 00:17:16.202 The conditions, what's, what's interesting here in the States and I know we have 279 00:17:16.226 --> 00:17:19.866 a ripple effect across the world and luckily in the uk, where you're at, hopefully 280 00:17:19.898 --> 00:17:23.530 you're on the other side of this. So hopeful for y'all, but where we're at, 281 00:17:23.570 --> 00:17:26.714 we're still here wrestling with this 282 00:17:26.802 --> 00:17:30.110 is he's setting up the conditions 283 00:17:30.450 --> 00:17:33.872 for, at a minimum, a deep 284 00:17:33.936 --> 00:17:37.220 resistance movement, if not a revolution. 285 00:17:37.560 --> 00:17:41.260 And I don't use those words lightly. I don't think we're like civil war, 286 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:45.712 but we're really marching up to something that's going 287 00:17:45.736 --> 00:17:49.520 to be a very deep conflict. And we know 288 00:17:49.560 --> 00:17:53.232 from the first presidency MeToo happened his first year. 289 00:17:53.416 --> 00:17:57.220 I don't think that's a coincidence when you have a known rapist and 290 00:17:57.260 --> 00:18:00.756 sexual harasser in office. And like you said, Black Lives 291 00:18:00.828 --> 00:18:04.580 Matter reignited. Granted, pandemic, George Floyd was 292 00:18:04.620 --> 00:18:07.988 fuel. But would that still have happened if 293 00:18:08.044 --> 00:18:11.844 Biden or somebody say, reasonable, but somebody 294 00:18:11.892 --> 00:18:15.160 that's not, you know. Yeah, racist 295 00:18:15.500 --> 00:18:18.240 was in office? Maybe, maybe, maybe not 296 00:18:18.780 --> 00:18:22.516 so. And most of the people in my profession 297 00:18:22.548 --> 00:18:25.672 are like, let's give it six months, let's see what 298 00:18:25.696 --> 00:18:29.400 happens. I don't think people are going to take this. I just 299 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:33.096 don't. 49%, 50% 300 00:18:33.168 --> 00:18:36.420 of us, whatever it is, like, we're not going to take it. 301 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:40.792 It's got Senate, it's got Congress, it's got everything, aren't they? I mean, there's no 302 00:18:40.816 --> 00:18:44.456 legislative sort of boundaries now Supreme 303 00:18:44.488 --> 00:18:47.420 Court, who's going to say no? Who's going to the military? 304 00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:51.656 Right. Well, and that's another thing he wants to use. I mean, the slim margin 305 00:18:51.688 --> 00:18:55.272 in the House. Right. And not all Republicans are Trumpers. 306 00:18:55.336 --> 00:18:59.160 Right. So, like that the House has one 307 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:02.920 vote to lose. So I, I doubt. And that, 308 00:19:03.040 --> 00:19:06.872 that's really a two year thing. So we'll have the two year elections, the 309 00:19:06.896 --> 00:19:10.504 midterms in what, 20, 26. 310 00:19:10.592 --> 00:19:14.440 So there's really two years to get things through. And even that's Going to be 311 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:18.040 slim slum margins. I don't want to be dismissive of what's at 312 00:19:18.080 --> 00:19:21.608 stake here. I love my country and it's 313 00:19:21.624 --> 00:19:25.336 disturbing. The one thing we did learn from separating 314 00:19:25.368 --> 00:19:29.032 from English power is to not let change happen quickly. 315 00:19:29.096 --> 00:19:32.680 So our founding fathers, as problematic as they were, 316 00:19:32.800 --> 00:19:36.408 did bake into our systems that you can't change things 317 00:19:36.464 --> 00:19:39.928 very swiftly. So change takes forever here. 318 00:19:40.064 --> 00:19:42.900 So this might be the part that's like a good thing. 319 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:48.264 The Constitution is so difficult, isn't it? Apparently it's so difficult you 320 00:19:48.272 --> 00:19:51.444 can't add an amendment. I mean, we can't even get the Equal Rights Amendment amendment 321 00:19:51.492 --> 00:19:54.520 passed from the 70s for women. Like, that's just bonkers. 322 00:19:55.020 --> 00:19:58.724 It's not going to happen. Like, it, it takes so much to get a 323 00:19:58.732 --> 00:20:02.500 majority in the Senate or the House. So what can he do, though? Executive 324 00:20:02.620 --> 00:20:06.276 orders. So I, I think if you're an immigrant in this country, especially 325 00:20:06.428 --> 00:20:10.180 one that's not fully legalised, there's some deep. I'd be very 326 00:20:10.220 --> 00:20:13.412 deeply concerned if I were you and I empathise 327 00:20:13.476 --> 00:20:17.300 deeply. I love immigrants. Every immigrant I've ever interacted with 328 00:20:17.340 --> 00:20:21.012 has been a very positive experience. So I have no idea. People are 329 00:20:21.036 --> 00:20:23.780 fearful and we have a labour shortage. Like, what are we, what are we doing 330 00:20:23.820 --> 00:20:27.316 here? Like, these are great workers for our economy. 331 00:20:27.468 --> 00:20:31.108 I don't, I don't understand that narrative. But what he is very 332 00:20:31.164 --> 00:20:34.948 good at doing is creating fear of the other. And the other 333 00:20:35.004 --> 00:20:38.788 could be black people, brown people, women, trans people, 334 00:20:38.924 --> 00:20:42.500 gay people. It's just you're the other. And if you're not, 335 00:20:42.620 --> 00:20:45.806 you know, the fit in that bell curve, like you said, 336 00:20:45.908 --> 00:20:48.778 the. And like, if you don't fit into this, like, 337 00:20:48.914 --> 00:20:52.538 prototypical type of, like, who's in power, white, 338 00:20:52.594 --> 00:20:56.390 straight, cis, able bodied man, then you're the other. 339 00:20:57.410 --> 00:21:01.178 The problem with that is, is that's a very slim part of our population. 340 00:21:01.354 --> 00:21:04.986 So you've got like, let's throw out numbers here, but I would guess 341 00:21:05.018 --> 00:21:08.430 60, 70% of people that don't fall into that box 342 00:21:09.410 --> 00:21:13.106 that aren't going to put up with this. So we'll 343 00:21:13.138 --> 00:21:16.322 see. We'll see. What I do love about my country 344 00:21:16.426 --> 00:21:20.258 is we love a good social movement and we will get 345 00:21:20.314 --> 00:21:23.954 one going here. So I have faithfully chosen the 346 00:21:23.962 --> 00:21:27.762 word resistance for this year. I can't wait. I will not 347 00:21:27.786 --> 00:21:31.426 be starting a resistance movement, but if anyone wants 348 00:21:31.458 --> 00:21:35.282 to, please email me. I'll do everything to support you. I just don't want to 349 00:21:35.306 --> 00:21:38.880 be that person. Yeah, maybe. Rosa, the term resistance 350 00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:42.032 implies a struggle, a Fight or something. Maybe 351 00:21:42.096 --> 00:21:45.648 friction slow things down, create. Put 352 00:21:45.704 --> 00:21:49.232 sand in the ointment to grit things up a bit, to create 353 00:21:49.336 --> 00:21:52.912 noise and to create great thinking is. I think it's what we're about as 354 00:21:52.936 --> 00:21:56.672 DEI practitioners, isn't it really? It's about stopping, pausing, thinking, 355 00:21:56.736 --> 00:22:00.336 reflecting, considering the needs of all, 356 00:22:00.408 --> 00:22:04.108 not just the needs of the one. It's a bit like Spock on Touch 357 00:22:04.224 --> 00:22:07.828 the needs of the one. Many outrage the needs of the one, isn't it? It's 358 00:22:07.844 --> 00:22:10.880 trying to go back to that kind of altruistic view of the world. 359 00:22:11.500 --> 00:22:14.980 And I think it just an understanding of what. What 360 00:22:15.020 --> 00:22:18.708 doesn't benefit me can benefit me, 361 00:22:18.764 --> 00:22:22.468 if that makes sense. Like providing, like you said, like universal health 362 00:22:22.524 --> 00:22:26.260 care. Like we know everyone was fighting Obamacare back at. 363 00:22:26.300 --> 00:22:29.972 You know, I myself wasn't a huge fan of it initially. Now, as a small 364 00:22:29.996 --> 00:22:33.730 business owner with a family to support, I am so thankful 365 00:22:33.810 --> 00:22:37.550 I have that and that that's not going away. 366 00:22:38.010 --> 00:22:41.506 He tried the first. It's not going to go away. So 367 00:22:41.658 --> 00:22:45.346 when we provide for other people, we provide for ourselves. Like you don't 368 00:22:45.378 --> 00:22:49.010 have to. I didn't have to even like individually benefit from 369 00:22:49.050 --> 00:22:52.610 that to recognise it's helping other people, it's helping our 370 00:22:52.650 --> 00:22:56.002 systems be better to provide care and have 371 00:22:56.186 --> 00:22:59.826 support mechanisms for people because if they feel supported then they're 372 00:22:59.858 --> 00:23:03.362 going to be able to contribute more to society and that 373 00:23:03.386 --> 00:23:07.202 benefits all of us. Somehow that utilitarianism like 374 00:23:07.226 --> 00:23:11.074 that has been lost that narrative and I 375 00:23:11.082 --> 00:23:14.850 don't know how to change people's thinking or not even change to 376 00:23:14.890 --> 00:23:18.642 shift people's thinking. Like you said, it's just like these little nudges. That's what 377 00:23:18.666 --> 00:23:21.602 I'm personally struggling with in the work right now. The people that we need to 378 00:23:21.626 --> 00:23:25.042 care. Don'T seem to care, like we said, 379 00:23:25.066 --> 00:23:28.726 about providing things for others that don't 380 00:23:28.758 --> 00:23:31.730 necessarily seem to benefit us. Right now 381 00:23:32.030 --> 00:23:35.410 I'm a week away from being 60 382 00:23:35.790 --> 00:23:38.966 and I benefit from 383 00:23:39.118 --> 00:23:41.490 lifts and escalators and 384 00:23:42.990 --> 00:23:46.690 eyesight. My hearing is not as good as it was, I'm not as able, 385 00:23:47.230 --> 00:23:50.742 my hips don't work as they used to and all this kind of thing. So 386 00:23:50.846 --> 00:23:54.406 I do like a good travelator from time to time. You know, I can't carry 387 00:23:54.438 --> 00:23:58.246 my luggage all the stairs anymore. I'm not 25. So 388 00:23:58.398 --> 00:24:02.022 I'm now benefiting from the infrastructure that society has put in 389 00:24:02.046 --> 00:24:05.330 place for people who need it from a disability point of view, 390 00:24:05.630 --> 00:24:09.110 because I'm getting to the point where I'm now less. Describe myself as less 391 00:24:09.150 --> 00:24:12.950 able, less Capable due to age. So we'll go skiing and break 392 00:24:12.990 --> 00:24:16.566 a leg. Suddenly you are in need of support and healthcare 393 00:24:16.598 --> 00:24:19.410 and access. So it happens to us all. 394 00:24:20.110 --> 00:24:23.924 On ageism is the biggest ism of them all. We're, 395 00:24:23.972 --> 00:24:27.764 we're fearful of our own mortality because the likelihood 396 00:24:27.812 --> 00:24:31.572 of you becoming disabled at some point in your 397 00:24:31.596 --> 00:24:35.160 life is extremely high. Like it's almost inevitable. 398 00:24:35.900 --> 00:24:39.364 And so you're pointing that out. We don't want to think about that because it's, 399 00:24:39.412 --> 00:24:43.172 it's too scary to fathom, like our own vulnerability. And I 400 00:24:43.196 --> 00:24:46.904 think that's the heart of all the isms. We're too afraid 401 00:24:47.092 --> 00:24:50.060