Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary
Joanne Lockwood: for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood,
Joanne Lockwood: your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion,
Joanne Lockwood: belonging, and societal transformation. Ever
Joanne Lockwood: wondered what it truly takes to create a world where everyone not
Joanne Lockwood: only belongs but thrives? You're not
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Joanne Lockwood: to share your insights or to join me on the show.
Joanne Lockwood: So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to
Joanne Lockwood: ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion
Joanne Lockwood: Bites. Today
Joanne Lockwood: is episode 151 with the title,
Joanne Lockwood: which redefining normal. And I have the absolute honor and
Joanne Lockwood: privilege to welcome Crystal Jordan. Crystal is an autism
Joanne Lockwood: advocate, author, philanthropist, dedicated to raising
Joanne Lockwood: awareness and empowering families to embrace neurodiversity.
Joanne Lockwood: When I asked Crystal to describe her superpower, she said, it
Joanne Lockwood: is her ability to amplify unheard voices and
Joanne Lockwood: foster inclusion through advocacy, storytelling, and
Joanne Lockwood: resilience. Hello, Crystal. Welcome to the show.
Crystal Jordan: First off, I'm so happy to be here
Joanne Lockwood: We were chatting just now before we went live, and I understand you're
Joanne Lockwood: based in Atlanta, Georgia in the US? Yes. I
Crystal Jordan: am based in Atlanta, Georgia, and it
Crystal Jordan: is cold here. It's too cold here. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: I always thought Atlanta, that part of America was kind of
Joanne Lockwood: like hot, humid, and sticky all year round, but you've had
Joanne Lockwood: a snow warning, haven't you? Yes. And, actually, most of our kids
Crystal Jordan: are out of school today. Because it's so cold, we're out
Crystal Jordan: they're out of school. We all do cold in the south. No.
Joanne Lockwood: So this is really unusual temperature for January, is it? Yes. It
Crystal Jordan: is. Wow. Hey. Who said
Joanne Lockwood: climate change is not happening? It's our climate. We've definitely got some climate change there,
Joanne Lockwood: haven't we? Oh my god. I hate it. It's so cold. That's why I have
Crystal Jordan: all this winter dress because I'm freezing. Yeah. Well
Joanne Lockwood: well, we'll get talking, and we'll warm ourselves up in the conversation. How about that?
Joanne Lockwood: That's that deal? I love that. So, Crystal,
Joanne Lockwood: your journey as an autism advocate, and you also founded Zacharias
Joanne Lockwood: World, which you could tell us more about, is really really inspiring from our conversations.
Joanne Lockwood: How would you turn your personal experiences into a mission for inclusion and
Joanne Lockwood: empowerment? What inspired you for that? So what inspired me behind any
Crystal Jordan: brand I'm doing dealing with autism is my son. He was diagnosed with
Crystal Jordan: autism when he was 2 years old. And since he's been 3,
Crystal Jordan: that's when I started writing books and doing so much. But I didn't call
Crystal Jordan: myself a advocate until people kept calling me a
Crystal Jordan: advocate. And I said, well, I guess I'm a advocate. So he's the reason
Crystal Jordan: behind everything that I'm doing because I want to create a
Crystal Jordan: world where he can get jobs when he's older. He can
Crystal Jordan: go to college. He can have family, and people understand, yes,
Crystal Jordan: he's autistic, but he's more to his disability. I don't want people
Crystal Jordan: to look at autistic people and be like, oh my god. They're autistic.
Crystal Jordan: No. Embrace them for who they are. Treat them like a human being,
Crystal Jordan: and let's hire them and make sure our companies have training.
Joanne Lockwood: I I titled this episode, redefining normal. Who
Joanne Lockwood: decides what is normal? Zacharias, he's got his own normal,
Joanne Lockwood: hasn't he? He's got his own personality years over years. But as a
Joanne Lockwood: society, we wanna put a label on someone. Yeah. The autism label. Yes. It
Joanne Lockwood: helps provide support for them. But what why
Joanne Lockwood: why do we need to divide people up in this way?
Crystal Jordan: So for me, I actually do not use the word
Crystal Jordan: normal. I feel like for me, it's a
Crystal Jordan: physicist. Not the not the name that you put you you titled for the
Crystal Jordan: podcast. I love the name you titled for the podcast because we can dive deeper
Crystal Jordan: into the conversation. What is normal? So
Crystal Jordan: my son is atypical, and I look at normal like
Crystal Jordan: this. You cook your chicken one way. I cook
Crystal Jordan: my chicken one way. Now that's normal to you, but that's not
Crystal Jordan: normal to me. We have to look at people in the same way. We
Crystal Jordan: can be we go for example, I can be from the UK, and you can
Crystal Jordan: be from the UK. But we still have 2 different ways of thinking
Crystal Jordan: and looking, and that's to me, that is normal. So yes.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. So we're all normal in our own head, aren't we? We all we all
Joanne Lockwood: think in the same eye. I often talk to people and I've talked to people
Joanne Lockwood: about neurodiversity in the past. You see the world through your own lens, through your
Joanne Lockwood: own sense of self. And if if your IQ is
Joanne Lockwood: low or you're high, the world is referenced by you.
Joanne Lockwood: So presumably, Zachariah just sees the world around him as the world around him. He
Joanne Lockwood: doesn't have any different definition of who he is than he is, who he's always
Joanne Lockwood: been, isn't he? Right. And I I feel like sometimes us
Crystal Jordan: as people, we we overlook what normal is like. So
Crystal Jordan: I feel like when you see people with disabilities, people just treat
Crystal Jordan: them differently, and it shouldn't even be a thing. So
Joanne Lockwood: how did, you you first become aware of
Joanne Lockwood: Zach's superpower, if you like, his autism? How did you become aware of that? What
Joanne Lockwood: led you to believe that he was, atypical,
Joanne Lockwood: to use your words? So Is that Zach in the
Joanne Lockwood: background? He is back in the background. To answer your question, I did
Crystal Jordan: not know my son was autistic. Looking back, it was science there, but I
Crystal Jordan: didn't know what autism was. I didn't know what he was doing, of course.
Crystal Jordan: So I started to learn, but his
Crystal Jordan: doctor at 8 months told me that, hey, I think I think Zachary is
Crystal Jordan: autistic. His doctor is a pediatrician and his doctor
Crystal Jordan: has an autistic son. She's asked, he saw us. So then
Crystal Jordan: after that, my best friend, she said it too. And then my
Crystal Jordan: son's dad mom said it as well. And I still didn't believe him
Crystal Jordan: at that this point. And I'm like, I don't think my son is autistic.
Crystal Jordan: But when he turned because he was hitting all his milestones, but when he turned
Crystal Jordan: 1, that's when I thought to pay attention. Like,
Crystal Jordan: he's not he wasn't walking at 1 yet. So I said, okay. That's
Crystal Jordan: a delay. Not put it back. And I said, that's
Crystal Jordan: not the delay. Sock for y'all. Then I also,
Crystal Jordan: when he turned 2, he wasn't talking. He, he, he didn't have certain words in
Crystal Jordan: his vocabulary. He wasn't out 200 words in your vocabulary at the age of 2
Crystal Jordan: years old, but he didn't have that. So for me, that
Crystal Jordan: was concerning, and that was like, okay. I think my
Crystal Jordan: child may be autistic. So I need to make sure
Crystal Jordan: that I figured it out. Oh, you're having a sing song in the background there,
Joanne Lockwood: isn't he? He he is having the time of his life. He right now, with
Crystal Jordan: the audience, what you guys are hearing, you're hearing my son stem,
Crystal Jordan: and he's vocally stemming. There's something he cannot help. Well, he's
Crystal Jordan: telling to be quiet, and he'll go back right back to it. So that's what
Crystal Jordan: you're hearing now. But he was diagnosed. I remember he was
Crystal Jordan: active. I remember going to the doctor, his doctor, and then a walk in.
Crystal Jordan: And the crazy thing about it, she normally is too busy to take walk ins,
Crystal Jordan: but she knew that I was ready at this point to
Crystal Jordan: realize that, hey. My son may be autistic. She
Crystal Jordan: riddled my referrals to Market Center in Atlanta, Georgia,
Crystal Jordan: and it was the best decision ever because Market Center is amazing.
Crystal Jordan: He was diagnosed on a Friday, and
Crystal Jordan: I took him to the fair. Never forget. I cried at the fair. I grieved
Crystal Jordan: what I thought she was gonna be. And that Monday, I was
Crystal Jordan: calling speech, a b a l t, and I remember
Crystal Jordan: a provider saying your son was just diagnosed. Your son was just
Crystal Jordan: diagnosed. And here you are calling to get him
Crystal Jordan: services. That's amazing. And I know a lot of PRs are not like
Crystal Jordan: me, but I knew in my head, my auntie was a
Crystal Jordan: special need teacher. I knew I had to be his advocate. I knew I had
Crystal Jordan: to get for him to get where I want him to be in life. I
Crystal Jordan: have to push that and I have to be that voice because my son is
Crystal Jordan: nonverbal. He does not have he's not vocal like you and
Crystal Jordan: I. So is it anyone's listening. Zach just came on on the video here,
Joanne Lockwood: and he he gave you a big hug and a kiss, didn't he? And then
Joanne Lockwood: nipped off again. So he's such a cutie. But
Joanne Lockwood: he has all these terms banned around autism, autistic,
Joanne Lockwood: neurodiverse, ADHD. Can you explain those different
Joanne Lockwood: terms just for people who are listening? So I so I can understand them as
Joanne Lockwood: well. So all of those terms you just stated is neurodiversity.
Crystal Jordan: So pretty much the best way I can describe it is they just all
Crystal Jordan: think differently. Look at, look at the world differently. And it, but for me, it's
Crystal Jordan: nothing wrong with them because they are awesome just the way they
Crystal Jordan: are. We just have to learn to adapt to them and understand their way
Crystal Jordan: of learning. But it's just one big umbrella of neurodiversity,
Crystal Jordan: and autism falls right under there. I get I get it. And
Joanne Lockwood: Zach's particular variety, if you want, of of autism is being
Joanne Lockwood: nonverbal. He has autism and ADM. So he has attention deficit
Joanne Lockwood: disorder as well. So he's hyper and, intense.
Crystal Jordan: Super super hyper. Like, it is intense.
Crystal Jordan: So right now, he's quiet in a sense, but he is
Crystal Jordan: hyper. So what what challenges does that bring
Joanne Lockwood: you as a parent? You know, you you obviously when you're
Joanne Lockwood: pregnant, you're planning your family, you're thinking about having a child, and
Joanne Lockwood: then you have to learn how,
Joanne Lockwood: as a parent, you you can adapt to an autistic child. What were
Joanne Lockwood: the challenges that you find in that adaptation? You know what's
Crystal Jordan: crazy? I love to be super transparent in interviews.
Crystal Jordan: When I was pregnant, I was depressed. I was not looking forward to my pregnancy.
Crystal Jordan: When I was pregnant, my Zachariah was a threatening miscarriage.
Crystal Jordan: So I was high risk. A threatening miscarriage is before you have a miscarriage.
Crystal Jordan: So that's before you lose the baby. But God was
Crystal Jordan: fortunate enough to spare him because he's here today.
Crystal Jordan: So I did not really plan anything he was born
Crystal Jordan: because I wasn't sure if he was gonna go live because they wasn't sure was
Crystal Jordan: he gonna come out as stillborn or come out with a disability. They even
Crystal Jordan: asked I would terminate my pregnancy. Zack's joining in again if you're listening in.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. He wants some attention. He he's like, no. I wanna be here.
Crystal Jordan: I'm looking at him like he's he's like this with the tablet. But, he
Joanne Lockwood: Hi, Zach. He he's so funny.
Crystal Jordan: But that was part of my pregnancy. I didn't get
Crystal Jordan: attached to my child until he came out on my womb, and I put him
Crystal Jordan: on me. So just to be super transparent,
Crystal Jordan: I did I was not attached to my child while I was pregnant, so I
Crystal Jordan: did not plan anything for him because my
Crystal Jordan: midwife was telling me that, Hey, he may come out stillborn. He may come out
Crystal Jordan: with disability. So we don't, you know, I, I just wasn't sure if I was
Crystal Jordan: gonna have a healthy baby, so I didn't plan. To answer that question.
Crystal Jordan: And I know you like, wow, that is, that is very true.
Crystal Jordan: How I navigate having an autistic child. I'm not going to lie.
Crystal Jordan: I have, I have challenges. Oops. Sometimes I hate it
Crystal Jordan: because I remember it was a point when he had ABA, he has
Crystal Jordan: speech, he had OT and he had feeding therapy and then he had
Crystal Jordan: tennis. So that's 5 different things I had to navigate
Crystal Jordan: to take him to. Plus I'm a single mom, me and his dad are not
Crystal Jordan: together. So doing all of this just will just by crystal
Crystal Jordan: and crystal alone is a lot. Like, yes, my parents
Crystal Jordan: are my village. My parents help me, help me with my child, but they are
Crystal Jordan: not taking him to these services because that's me. He
Crystal Jordan: like, it's a lot. And I navigate it now. It's like easy
Crystal Jordan: breezy, but I used to be overwhelmed and stressed. Wow. Like,
Crystal Jordan: it's too much, but I came up with a decision that works. I honestly
Crystal Jordan: stopped some services to work on my mental health because it was
Crystal Jordan: just too much. He really I mean, he he sounds so adorable just listening to
Joanne Lockwood: him. I I I presume he's quite amfool sometimes as well. His
Joanne Lockwood: autism with ADHD must make mean that you have to have
Joanne Lockwood: patience for Saint. We've he he's not gonna
Joanne Lockwood: conform to societal's expectations around being
Joanne Lockwood: quiet, sitting still. I mean, it's actually a
Joanne Lockwood: pleasure to have Zac joining into the call. You know, we're why why should we
Joanne Lockwood: exclude him here? His voice is there, so let's bring him in. Oh, there he
Joanne Lockwood: is. I can see him again. Yeah. So
Joanne Lockwood: what what was the hardest thing you had to get to learn and adapt to?
Crystal Jordan: That is an amazing question. So you just taught me. What was the
Crystal Jordan: hardest thing I had to adapt to?
Crystal Jordan: Okay. The hardest thing I had to adapt to is my, the
Crystal Jordan: way I navigate. No. I treat my son like he's my client.
Crystal Jordan: So when, when I go into the school, I'm his advocate first. I'm
Crystal Jordan: not his mom. When I give him services, I tell people
Crystal Jordan: out of service providers. I'm his I'm his advocate.
Crystal Jordan: Yes. I'm his mom on paper, but I'm telling you right now, I'm an
Crystal Jordan: advocate, and I'm not I don't play with him. So the hardest part
Crystal Jordan: is we cutting off the mom and me being an advocate.
Crystal Jordan: But it had actually, it's been so easy because with me being
Crystal Jordan: the advocate first, I've gotten him so much, especially
Crystal Jordan: in the school system. I got him so much. It's amazing
Crystal Jordan: how much I got him. So let me just clarify what what's
Joanne Lockwood: going through my head here. So a mom, you're emotionally connected. You're
Joanne Lockwood: kind of involved with it. Advocate. You're logical. You're demanding.
Joanne Lockwood: You're ensuring you're getting the best. And that that's kind
Joanne Lockwood: of the difference is that as a mom, you may think I won't push too
Joanne Lockwood: hard or all these kind of things. So by going advocate first, you're you're
Joanne Lockwood: challenging and making sure people are listening to you to deliver the right
Joanne Lockwood: things. Do I interpret that right? You are a 100%
Crystal Jordan: right. That's exactly how I am in in any
Crystal Jordan: settings. When when I'm an advocate, it's no feelings. This
Crystal Jordan: is I'm gonna give you the loan. I'm gonna break down the
Crystal Jordan: ethic codes. We're going to to discuss his goals. We're gonna
Crystal Jordan: discuss for ABA. We're gonna discuss his programs. Are they appropriate for him?
Crystal Jordan: Are they appropriate for what I want for him as a adult? That is the
Crystal Jordan: side you'll give me. The mom is like, oh, okay.
Crystal Jordan: No. No. That's that's so this
Crystal Jordan: year well, where is this 125? Last year,
Crystal Jordan: they, people didn't get the mom's side of me. They got the advocate side of
Crystal Jordan: me. And like when my son's teacher, I love her.
Crystal Jordan: She gets both. Cause I, I turn it on and off on field
Crystal Jordan: trips. I'm a or I come in to
Crystal Jordan: discuss my son. He's advocate. So she sees both.
Crystal Jordan: I turn it on and off. It's it's it's it's, you know, or it's it's
Crystal Jordan: easy. I turn it on and off all the time. Yeah. I I I
Joanne Lockwood: think I haven't kept I'm not nice. I'm not nice. I know that.
Crystal Jordan: And when I say I'm not nice, I'm very firm. So
Crystal Jordan: if I know what I'm talking about, which most of the time I do, I'm
Crystal Jordan: going to address it. I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be very, very, very
Crystal Jordan: affirming and firm. And like right now, we deal with a
Crystal Jordan: situation. Well, not anymore because I already addressed it. We was working with this
Crystal Jordan: company and this company was terrible and they did not get the
Crystal Jordan: nice advocate. They got the advocate that
Crystal Jordan: knew everything, and that was they ended up
Crystal Jordan: getting to see like, the regional director involved because it
Crystal Jordan: it was so bad. So it's two sides to my advocate side when
Crystal Jordan: he's calling my son. And after when I started treatment, I know I do the
Crystal Jordan: same thing for a client. I'm very serious about people
Crystal Jordan: treating them how they should be treated, and they're getting the services they should
Crystal Jordan: get. Yeah. I I I hear what you're saying there. And I've just turned 60.
Joanne Lockwood: My parents are are quite old now. My wife's parents are quite old. And we've
Joanne Lockwood: we've learned that we need to go to advocate mode to engage with
Joanne Lockwood: health care professionals, care professionals, whatever it may be. Because if you go in
Joanne Lockwood: as as a daughter, you go in as a as a family member, and you
Joanne Lockwood: know they gotta push back or ignore you or not talk to you. So you
Joanne Lockwood: have to be brutally firm with people in order
Joanne Lockwood: to get not not rude, but just really, really firm. You have to know what
Joanne Lockwood: you're gonna get. Because we've been through so many situations where we come away
Joanne Lockwood: going, they didn't listen or we didn't get something or we need to add we
Joanne Lockwood: need to get more out of this. And you learn very quickly that unless you
Joanne Lockwood: advocate and you're firm with it and keep on it, people will not give you
Joanne Lockwood: the respect or the service you need. And I think that's
Crystal Jordan: unfortunate when we really like dive into the word advocate.
Crystal Jordan: So I have a best friend who's and I'm going to advocate for her, who
Crystal Jordan: is my godson. What is funny is when you use the word
Crystal Jordan: advocate, it's like things change. It's like, oh, they got to
Crystal Jordan: advocate. Let me get my stuff together. And I think that's unfortunate. Why not?
Crystal Jordan: When it comes to our special needs kids, our ADHD kids,
Crystal Jordan: our near diverse kids, why not? When
Crystal Jordan: when that kid get enrolled, why not have a welcome pamphlet talking
Crystal Jordan: about the law, talking about what you need as a parent, talking about
Crystal Jordan: resources, talking about things that will help you
Crystal Jordan: navigate in the school system to better your kid's life in
Crystal Jordan: longevity outside of school, inside of even in the educational
Crystal Jordan: realm. What you know, why not? In high school, it should be a pathway.
Crystal Jordan: Hey. Your kid is neurodiverse and your kid's autistic. You got a list of colleges
Crystal Jordan: in United States that your kid can go to. Why not why not
Crystal Jordan: put these programs in place? Why does we need someone
Crystal Jordan: like me who is passionate about what I'm talking about to
Crystal Jordan: get these things in place. Like for me, my
Crystal Jordan: son, I know when he get to high school, it'll mean him
Crystal Jordan: gonna go a different route. And I'm figuring that out, what we're gonna do. If
Crystal Jordan: he wanna go to college, I gotta set up his IEP a different way,
Crystal Jordan: and you transition him to something else. Because I when I say I'm thinking
Crystal Jordan: ahead, I'm thinking ahead. So it's not perfect today. And we we
Joanne Lockwood: are 2025, and the world is
Joanne Lockwood: moving on a lot. Yeah. We're doing a lot of thinking about a lot of
Joanne Lockwood: stuff, and services are getting more and more experience. But if you wind the
Joanne Lockwood: clock back, I don't know, 10, 20, 30 years, Zach's
Joanne Lockwood: life would have been so much different. You you would not have had the support
Joanne Lockwood: that you get now. Even though even though it's imperfect today, it's evolved
Joanne Lockwood: quite a bit. So what are the key things that they are getting right? I
Crystal Jordan: would say the key thing that Oxy is getting right, people get it right
Crystal Jordan: I hear this a lot. It's a spike in autism. Right? I think and
Crystal Jordan: I and this is this is just my personal opinion, so do not let listeners,
Crystal Jordan: please don't get mad at me. I'm happy to see that
Crystal Jordan: parents are now aware and they're getting their kids tested.
Crystal Jordan: And I'm happy to see that as more kids like my son getting tested and
Crystal Jordan: again, their diagnosis and parents are doing what they need to do to make sure
Crystal Jordan: that they raise their child to be an awesome little human that they're going to
Crystal Jordan: be. So a lot of people, it's a myth. I mean, a lot of people
Crystal Jordan: are like, oh, they're going to outgrow it. You don't outgrow autism.
Crystal Jordan: Now, one thing I wish that the world got right, United States,
Crystal Jordan: UK, I wish we have more resources that was,
Crystal Jordan: quicker. Instead of waiting having wait list, I wish that it
Crystal Jordan: wasn't an age out period, that when our kids turn 18
Crystal Jordan: or 21, they're aged out of the program. I wish it was
Crystal Jordan: more programs and more nonprofits geared towards autistic
Crystal Jordan: adults or neurotypical adults because they need
Crystal Jordan: help. Because, unfortunately, the reality is their
Crystal Jordan: parents, me, I'm not gonna be here forever. So
Crystal Jordan: when I leave, what is gonna be here to to push him to be the
Crystal Jordan: best Zachariah or the best Mariah or the best
Crystal Jordan: Sarah or the best kid they could be? And those are
Crystal Jordan: just random names I'm saying. But besides that, those are random names,
Crystal Jordan: because these are conversations that we need to have at the government
Crystal Jordan: office. These are bills that we need to pass.
Crystal Jordan: There's so many things that we have to do as a society
Crystal Jordan: to make sure our, other adults are adults who
Crystal Jordan: have special needs or taken care of and not taken
Crystal Jordan: advantage of. There's not a drain on resources there,
Joanne Lockwood: whether it's the legislature legislators, the,
Joanne Lockwood: the healthcare professionals, society, whatever. You know, we've got obesity
Joanne Lockwood: crisis. We've got we just come out of a pandemic, a global
Joanne Lockwood: pandemic. As you as you mentioned, we're seeing a spike in autism and neurodiversity,
Joanne Lockwood: diagnosis. It's a health care profession struggling to keep
Joanne Lockwood: up. Are are we are we too demanding? I do think it's a
Crystal Jordan: struggle to keep up, but I I also think it's not really a spike. It's
Crystal Jordan: really so when you look at the data, years ago, it's 1 out of
Crystal Jordan: a 100 and 60 6 kids that were diagnosed with autism. When I wrote
Crystal Jordan: my book, just like you, it was 1 out of 54
Crystal Jordan: kids diagnosed with autism. As of 2024,
Crystal Jordan: according to the CDC, is 1 out of 36 kids diagnosed with
Crystal Jordan: autism. Right? I think now is more awareness, and
Crystal Jordan: my focus is acceptance and inclusion of that. But
Crystal Jordan: when it comes to the resources, the speech, o o t,
Crystal Jordan: it's too many diagnosis and not enough providers. Too
Crystal Jordan: many diagnosis, not enough services. My son has been on his
Crystal Jordan: wait list for speech for almost a year. Nope. It'd be yeah. It'd
Crystal Jordan: be almost a year, like 2 months. That is ridiculous.
Crystal Jordan: That is not acceptable. And that is
Crystal Jordan: crazy to see my son is waiting on a service that he needs
Crystal Jordan: and deserve, and I can't even get it from him because it's not
Crystal Jordan: enough providers in the field who are taking clients.
Crystal Jordan: And that's heartbreaking. So are you saying we the world needs more community
Joanne Lockwood: advocates like yourself, independence, small charities, small
Joanne Lockwood: advocacy groups? Maybe More resources. People within the autistic
Joanne Lockwood: community come together and become an advocacy powerhouse
Joanne Lockwood: between them. Is is that kind of the way things are gonna develop, you think?
Crystal Jordan: Still, as as as we get more parents like me to keep pushing
Crystal Jordan: this topic, we're going to grow as a community. Now
Crystal Jordan: it's certain things in the community. Some people in the community don't agree with like
Crystal Jordan: puzzle pieces. I'm talking about an autistic or a person with an
Crystal Jordan: or perfect person with autism. We have bigger things to talk
Crystal Jordan: about. We have bigger things to worry about, like, non
Crystal Jordan: security for for autistic individuals, funding for them to
Crystal Jordan: live independent. Like, I feel like sometime in a community,
Crystal Jordan: we focus on things that are so small that
Crystal Jordan: that is that is not as important as you having a job
Crystal Jordan: to pay your bills and not lose your home. I have a
Crystal Jordan: autistic friend, and
Crystal Jordan: she's in a process that was her law. She she's nonverbal, she's an
Crystal Jordan: adult and she cannot pay her bills. These are conversations
Crystal Jordan: that need to be at because she needs a job where she's
Crystal Jordan: able to work and not speak. Cause she cause she cause she's nonverbal.
Crystal Jordan: She's not speaking. If everyone be technical, she has an aid device and
Crystal Jordan: she needs a, and she has seizures. So she need a work from home job
Crystal Jordan: that can be able to pay her so she won't lose her home. These are
Crystal Jordan: conversations that need to be had versus puzzle pieces
Crystal Jordan: versus, oh, you used the wrong term or that's not
Crystal Jordan: important. What is important is inclusion, jobs,
Crystal Jordan: hiring autistic individuals, especially nonverbal
Crystal Jordan: autistic individuals, jobs, having training for
Crystal Jordan: autistic individuals. Those are the things that are super
Crystal Jordan: important that are overlooked and overshadowed because we're talking
Crystal Jordan: about puzzle pieces. So we're talking about, oh, you used the wrong term.
Crystal Jordan: You should say personal autism or autistic individual. Let's talk
Crystal Jordan: about something that is more important. My son is
Crystal Jordan: nonverbal. Would he be able to have a job? I mean, the reason why I'm
Crystal Jordan: passionate about that, I lost my voice
Crystal Jordan: last year, no 2023 and
Crystal Jordan: I didn't have a voice. I would never forget
Crystal Jordan: to not talk at work. So my manager at the time sent me
Crystal Jordan: home and he told me, and I quote, I will never forget this.
Crystal Jordan: He said, your voice is a part of your uniform. I cried.
Crystal Jordan: I was so mad because I
Crystal Jordan: know a little bit of ASL, a customized ASL.
Crystal Jordan: And I also wrote, how dare you? But I talked to my HRs over here
Crystal Jordan: that, that, that important, but he gave me a glimpse.
Crystal Jordan: I feel like God took my voice as a dope, but I can see how
Crystal Jordan: it would be for my son. And that was the most powerful thing. And it's
Crystal Jordan: so funny. I lost my voice at work a couple of days ago. I couldn't
Crystal Jordan: talk, but my management was accommodating, guests
Crystal Jordan: understood what I wanted. I was writing, I was communicating, I was signing
Crystal Jordan: and it went good. Now, one man said, you sure you want to be here?
Crystal Jordan: And I, and I just think about whenever I lose my voice,
Crystal Jordan: it's the most humbling thing and experience for me.
Crystal Jordan: Cause I, when I lost my voice, I had to go grocery shopping. I had
Crystal Jordan: to go through a drive through. Do you know how hard that was to not
Crystal Jordan: be able to talk? So that's why I'm super passionate about
Crystal Jordan: job security because my son is going to be older and I need him to
Crystal Jordan: have a job. Even though 9 out of 10,
Crystal Jordan: I'm I'm going my company's gonna be successful. He gonna work there, and I'm
Crystal Jordan: gonna hire nonspeaking individuals. But
Crystal Jordan: till then, I'm not there yet. It's companies like Walmart.
Crystal Jordan: It's companies like Target, Apple, Google, Tesla
Crystal Jordan: who need to think about hiring these type of individuals
Crystal Jordan: today. Not tomorrow, today. I've got a a friend,
Joanne Lockwood: married couple friend, who had a a child with Down syndrome,
Joanne Lockwood: 32 years ago. So their their son is now 32,
Joanne Lockwood: and they are older than me. They're in their mid sixties. They're
Joanne Lockwood: very aware of the fact they won't be able to go on
Joanne Lockwood: providing care and advocacy for their son for the rest of their lives.
Joanne Lockwood: And that there was a law passed in the UK a couple of years ago
Joanne Lockwood: where there was a well, this has all been passed. There's an
Joanne Lockwood: expectation that people with down syndrome wouldn't survive past their
Joanne Lockwood: thirties. So most people with downs would have their parents around. They'd have
Joanne Lockwood: advocacy. They'd have a combination of housing, and someone talks after them. What's happening
Joanne Lockwood: now is because of the health care advances, people with, downs are now living
Joanne Lockwood: longer and potentially most of them are now outliving their parents. So we've
Joanne Lockwood: got a crisis with the with people with downs where they will not be able
Joanne Lockwood: to see that they haven't got independent living or they're not independently capable
Joanne Lockwood: of living. The state will need to provide support and advocacy for them. I think
Joanne Lockwood: what you're saying here is, you know, when you have your your son Zack, he's
Joanne Lockwood: nonverbal at the age of 3 or 4 years old, however he is now.
Joanne Lockwood: When he gets into his teens, when he gets into his twenties and thirties, you
Joanne Lockwood: will not be able to advocate for him for the rest of his life. He
Joanne Lockwood: need as you say, he needs independent living. He needs to have his own his
Joanne Lockwood: own property, his own house, his own life, his own training, his education,
Joanne Lockwood: and job. He has passion and purpose, doesn't he? So I think you're
Joanne Lockwood: right. I mean, I see a lot of people talk about young autistic children
Joanne Lockwood: and what how we can help them. I see a lot of people who are
Joanne Lockwood: adults, who have autism, who have ADHD, who have neurodiversity,
Joanne Lockwood: advocating for themselves. What I don't see is adult
Joanne Lockwood: people autistic people being advocated for on
Joanne Lockwood: television nationally. I don't see the awareness of nonverbal
Joanne Lockwood: autistic people in their twenties, thirties, and forties and how we
Joanne Lockwood: support them. So what you've done here is you've highlighted to me this big gulf
Joanne Lockwood: between self advocating functioning people who with autism and
Joanne Lockwood: nonverbal people who are young at the moment. What do we do? How do we
Joanne Lockwood: how do we how do we how do we bang our fists on the table
Joanne Lockwood: in in a in the right way to get people to think about the future,
Joanne Lockwood: not just about today. If people can, if I can give Jess a
Crystal Jordan: glimpse, imagine if your
Crystal Jordan: granddaughter was autistic, where were you wanting to be when you passed?
Crystal Jordan: I feel like people had to personally place their self in
Crystal Jordan: people's shoes. And then I feel like we'll get closer
Crystal Jordan: to answering the problem or or coming with a better
Crystal Jordan: solution. So that's that's the challenge, isn't it? We we we haven't created,
Joanne Lockwood: I would call it, an empathy bridge. We haven't got people to connect in an
Joanne Lockwood: empathetic way to the the problems so that they become bought
Joanne Lockwood: into providing the solution. I think that's that's the challenge we've got, isn't it?
Joanne Lockwood: People just kick you off into touch because you're there advocating the
Joanne Lockwood: sack. They can abdicate responsibility for the time being. But
Joanne Lockwood: you're gonna have to keep keep keep the pressure on for the next
Joanne Lockwood: 20, 30, 40 years. That relies on you having good health, physical
Joanne Lockwood: and mental health, having a support network, having a career yourself. Otherwise, he will
Joanne Lockwood: be dependent on you for a long time. So
Crystal Jordan: my son is becoming independent every day from
Crystal Jordan: he just started trying to brush his teeth. He gets his self dressed
Crystal Jordan: down, put his own shoes and socks on. So, eventually, as he get
Crystal Jordan: older, I'm gonna teach him how to cook because I need him to be independent.
Crystal Jordan: That that is my biggest focus is him being independent.
Joanne Lockwood: Do you see other people who have autistic children
Joanne Lockwood: having same impetus as you? Are you I presume you're
Joanne Lockwood: not unique in this. These are proven techniques. And
Joanne Lockwood: how do we help the wider understanding of of how to do this?
Crystal Jordan: I believe that autism is one word. It's a million different stories. I
Crystal Jordan: came up with a came up with a quote, but that's what it is.
Crystal Jordan: But most all of the parents I know who have autistic kids,
Crystal Jordan: they wish for the same thing I wish for, which is their kids
Crystal Jordan: being independent, their kids thriving and living an independent life.
Crystal Jordan: And we watching them grow into the also individual that they are. Yeah. And that
Joanne Lockwood: that's no different to any child. You know? I have
Joanne Lockwood: 2 children, and I was there's nothing prouder than to
Joanne Lockwood: see our 2 children go to university, grow
Joanne Lockwood: up, get married, have a have their own house, property. And
Joanne Lockwood: you feel like you you as a parent have then pushed them into the world,
Joanne Lockwood: and your your job's never done, but at least you feel that you've achieved a
Joanne Lockwood: milestone of independent children. They've they're now functioning
Joanne Lockwood: adults in their own right. So that's quite a challenge as
Joanne Lockwood: a parent regardless of whether they're autistic or not. I love that.
Crystal Jordan: So I feel like as parents, we are like we are managers to little
Crystal Jordan: kids, little people. And then as they get older, we're still their
Crystal Jordan: manager, and then we kinda get demoted as they get
Crystal Jordan: older because they're not listen to their managers no more. Like, whatever. I'm a girl.
Crystal Jordan: I can do what I want. So I look at it as me being his
Crystal Jordan: little manager right now. And then once he get older, he's gonna manage
Crystal Jordan: his own life, and I'm gonna become the assistant manager. Then I know that analogy
Crystal Jordan: of, like, crystal. Yeah. I like that. So you're his
Joanne Lockwood: manager. You know? I'm thinking about boxing promoter and manager that I
Joanne Lockwood: suppose a boxing promoter, you're the advocate in that role. As a manager, you're there
Joanne Lockwood: keeping you on track, and then you're gonna get you're gonna get fired. Feel like
Joanne Lockwood: the apprentice. You get fired. Oh, yeah. And I'm gonna become assistant manager.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. He don't need you no more sort of thing. Yeah. Right. And once
Crystal Jordan: you're done here yeah. I'm gonna become a shift leader. So
Crystal Jordan: it's like Yeah. I love that. I love that. So
Joanne Lockwood: your role is to become obsolete, and that's that that will give you no more
Joanne Lockwood: pleasure than being having Zach going out there and and not
Joanne Lockwood: needing you as much. Okay. You're still always gonna be his mom. He's always gonna
Joanne Lockwood: always have a sweet spot. You always gonna wanna hug him, whenever you can.
Joanne Lockwood: So yeah. But he he has his own life and passion,
Joanne Lockwood: purpose. Yeah. We all want that. Fantastic.
Joanne Lockwood: So so you set up Zachariah's World, which is, how
Joanne Lockwood: would you describe it? Is it a charity? Is it just a a a mission,
Joanne Lockwood: a brand, or No. Zachariah World is not a charity. It's a for
Crystal Jordan: profit business. It is warehouse all my books because I
Crystal Jordan: have wrote almost 20 books or if not more. And they're all
Crystal Jordan: about, either autism or inclusion or, I also
Crystal Jordan: write for moms, a coloring book for moms and a safe
Crystal Jordan: haven for moms as well, a planner for moms. So that brand is
Crystal Jordan: my autism friendly brand that you can buy apparel,
Crystal Jordan: and you can buy books for your organizations, your classrooms, your
Crystal Jordan: schools. So which gives a bit of depth into what sort of so you
Joanne Lockwood: mentioned a lot of different books there. So there are some specific for workplaces, some
Joanne Lockwood: specific for parents, schools. So
Joanne Lockwood: You have a whole bunch of books. So my books are, one of my
Crystal Jordan: first books that I promote the most is called Just Like You. That book is
Crystal Jordan: a great introduction to what autism is. And I recommend buying that book for your
Crystal Jordan: schools, your organizations, or gifts
Crystal Jordan: because it's a good tool. Other books are just fun. Like I
Crystal Jordan: am also. It's talk about positive affirmation for autistic kids
Crystal Jordan: because I want autistic kids to understand that they are awesome. They are
Crystal Jordan: enough and they are gifted and they are loved.
Crystal Jordan: So the older other books I've created, I've created coloring books.
Crystal Jordan: And then for the moms, I have created coloring books for us because
Crystal Jordan: it's therapeutic for us to color. For me personally, like when I'm going I
Crystal Jordan: never forget I was going through something. And when I, worked in my
Crystal Jordan: coloring book and I started to color and it just I feel bad when I
Crystal Jordan: color, even though my hands are cramp up now. But I like to color,
Crystal Jordan: so I made a coloring book for moms. And that brand is just
Crystal Jordan: is that. It's meant to to educate, have
Crystal Jordan: fun, and that's it. Is it is it
Joanne Lockwood: lonely being the parent of an autistic child?
Joanne Lockwood: Do you feel that there's not enough knowledge? It's a difference between
Joanne Lockwood: being lonely and being alone. Okay. You're not alone. You have people around you. But
Joanne Lockwood: you can be lonely where people don't understand you. You don't understand the challenge. You've
Joanne Lockwood: got no one to offload. You've got no one to to share your burden. Is
Joanne Lockwood: it can it be lonely? I wanna say I was in a place
Crystal Jordan: one time where it was lonely because I I didn't I didn't I don't like
Crystal Jordan: I don't vent to people like that when it comes to my son, but
Crystal Jordan: I'm not there. I wasn't there long because I ended up finding
Crystal Jordan: communities on Facebook and finding other women who have
Crystal Jordan: autistic kids that I can call and talk to them. They're like, Hey, I'm going
Crystal Jordan: through this. And we talk about it, but I'm, I'm more solution and strategy
Crystal Jordan: based. So for me, I'm not
Crystal Jordan: along or lonely. Dating is interesting because I'm very
Crystal Jordan: particular who I date because I do have an autistic kid and he is
Crystal Jordan: nonverbal. So I'm like, okay. That that's in my life
Crystal Jordan: is where I feel a lot. Okay. So, yeah, it's you feel that you have
Joanne Lockwood: to declare Zach as part of a relationship. Is you're you're
Joanne Lockwood: not dating you, you're dating both of you. Dating both of us,
Crystal Jordan: but not originally. Like, I have a boundary. Like,
Crystal Jordan: don't I don't want you talking about my kids too quick because for
Crystal Jordan: me, that gave me weird vibes. So it's hard to navigate and
Crystal Jordan: be single and, have
Crystal Jordan: autistic kid. But I'm not actively looking, so it
Crystal Jordan: is what it is. I suppose at the moment where you are with this
Joanne Lockwood: is Zach has to come first in any relationship.
Crystal Jordan: Any relationship, he has to always be first. And he
Joanne Lockwood: has, I don't mean this unkindly, but complex needs. He has complex emotions. He
Joanne Lockwood: has complex so somebody has to join you in the advocacy battle. They can't
Joanne Lockwood: come on as a as a bystander. Right. They have to understand some days
Crystal Jordan: I'm I'm gonna have to go to something. Like, we may have a date
Crystal Jordan: today, but something may happen. I have something to do. Then I'm also
Crystal Jordan: big at being a part of his being a part of my son's life.
Crystal Jordan: So I'm not saying that the person I would talk to wanna wanna come
Crystal Jordan: first, but I can't will always be first. Even when they
Crystal Jordan: become my dope, he will always be first. Some of that's a
Joanne Lockwood: mother's instinct anyway, isn't it, to protect your child? And
Joanne Lockwood: moms and their sons are even more tightly bonded. So, yeah, I I
Joanne Lockwood: I get that completely. We obviously, you just said you're you're on
Joanne Lockwood: the market for what I've got to hope. So you you have you have friends
Joanne Lockwood: and with autistic children, presumably,
Joanne Lockwood: who are married or or living as a couple, and they're navigating
Joanne Lockwood: this as a couple. What what about if they have other children?
Joanne Lockwood: How how how sometimes is it if you've got a,
Joanne Lockwood: an a a typical and an atypical child, it must
Joanne Lockwood: be must be hard to ensure that your typical child
Joanne Lockwood: doesn't feel pushed out or marginalized from their atypical child with
Joanne Lockwood: autism, where you're putting all your all your time into that one child. Okay.
Crystal Jordan: So all of my main autistic moms, friends,
Crystal Jordan: we're all single. Oh, I only know one who is
Crystal Jordan: married. She don't live in Schlippen, Virginia.
Crystal Jordan: And she navigates fine with her. She has one
Crystal Jordan: atypical kid, and her other kids are neurotypical. Neurotypical is
Crystal Jordan: society standard and normal. I don't because I don't use the word normal. I use
Crystal Jordan: neurotypical, and she navigates
Crystal Jordan: through having it. And she's and she's a advocate, and she's amazing. Now my
Crystal Jordan: other friends who are single as myself and they have
Crystal Jordan: autistic kids, one, she only has one. She I think she navigates
Crystal Jordan: very fine. The other one, she she has
Crystal Jordan: 2.1 is autistic, 1 is not. And I feel like she separates it
Crystal Jordan: pretty well even though she she used she used to be married,
Crystal Jordan: but now she's divorced. So I think she's navigating
Crystal Jordan: being a divorced woman and raising a autistic
Crystal Jordan: kid by herself. They're all in different
Crystal Jordan: it's funny saying that out loud. We're all in different different
Crystal Jordan: spots in our life, but we love on our our kid. You used
Joanne Lockwood: a an acronym in passing a bit earlier. I think I think you said
Joanne Lockwood: IEP. Can you explain what an IEP is and
Joanne Lockwood: why it's important for that? So IEP is a
Crystal Jordan: individualized educational plan. That is something that you have in place in
Crystal Jordan: your school or a 504 plan. So those are similar,
Crystal Jordan: but they're different. And, 504 have more accommodations.
Crystal Jordan: I am actually an IEP advocate as well. So when it comes to my
Crystal Jordan: son and why it's so important and the reason why, cause he
Crystal Jordan: he's categorized in 1 to 13 categories, which is autism.
Crystal Jordan: So with him being categorized and he has certain delays, I say
Crystal Jordan: weaknesses sometimes, sometimes I say delays that we have to work on and
Crystal Jordan: navigate. So for me,
Crystal Jordan: so as of right now, my son, he cannot write his name. So one of
Crystal Jordan: the goals is him learning how to write his name, but also having
Crystal Jordan: OT services at school that he deserves. And I
Crystal Jordan: knew that the data would show that, which he is OT at school
Crystal Jordan: now, but I always knew that data was going to show that.
Crystal Jordan: So we have an IEP, you know, your laws, you
Crystal Jordan: know, you need to go in with an open mind. And
Crystal Jordan: if you can afford an advocate or if you know, an advocate who's free,
Crystal Jordan: had them come a part of the IEP meeting and add them
Crystal Jordan: to your team because you're one big team. But IEPs are very important
Crystal Jordan: when you have a special kid. Yeah. No. I I get that. And too often
Joanne Lockwood: what we do is we we try and apply generic solutions.
Joanne Lockwood: But we need to recognize that we need individualistic. And you say here, the
Joanne Lockwood: individualized education program allows us to
Joanne Lockwood: create something just for Zach or just for another autistic child, not treat
Joanne Lockwood: them like everybody else because age you know, typical
Joanne Lockwood: children tend to be grouped under a big banner of they all get treated
Joanne Lockwood: the same. But neurodiversity autism are
Joanne Lockwood: are so individual. Zach's flavor of autism
Joanne Lockwood: is different to another child's flavor of autism. They may have similar attributes, but it's
Joanne Lockwood: very individualized. And you have to what you're saying here is recognize what
Joanne Lockwood: Zach needs, not what stereotype of an autistic
Joanne Lockwood: child needs. Right. And that's the point of a IEP.
Crystal Jordan: Come on, man. I told you it's cold. That's the point. Putting a blanket on
Joanne Lockwood: to leave herself warm. She's not used to the the cold in the south.
Crystal Jordan: I'm not. It's so cold here. I can't wait till the
Crystal Jordan: summer. But, to answer your question, the IEP,
Crystal Jordan: every person IEP should be, it's, it should be
Crystal Jordan: dedicated to that child is not to make accommodations for the
Crystal Jordan: school or the teacher is to make accommodations for
Crystal Jordan: the child. And those plans should be smart goals. So when you have your
Crystal Jordan: IEP meeting, if your goals are not a smart goal, which is a strategy
Crystal Jordan: with making sure the goals are very small. S is for
Crystal Jordan: and I have a okay. So before I say the word, y'all, I have a
Crystal Jordan: speech impediment and I may be also snick, not sure yet, but S is
Crystal Jordan: for specific. I have a problem saying that. M is for measurable, A
Crystal Jordan: is for the attributes, R is for the, is being
Crystal Jordan: relatable and T is for taught. So you're planning your kid
Crystal Jordan: IAP meeting, it should not be, the goals should not be opinion
Crystal Jordan: based. It should be a smart goal. And yeah, and then look
Crystal Jordan: up some books like right wall. They are attorneys who, who have
Crystal Jordan: books and trainings for parents to learn more
Crystal Jordan: about IEP, rights and laws. There's so many laws
Crystal Jordan: involved in IEP. The IEP is legal buying a contract
Crystal Jordan: and most parents don't even realize it's a contract
Crystal Jordan: between you and the school. So yeah. So with my
Crystal Jordan: son and just in general, I made sure that his goals made sense
Crystal Jordan: and I make sure they match who he is. And are they are they are
Crystal Jordan: they are attainable? Can he attain this goal?
Crystal Jordan: Can he reach it? Or are we are we putting the expectation for him
Crystal Jordan: that's too high? And I I presume that the contract is both ways. So you
Joanne Lockwood: as a you as a mom, you as a parent have to uphold
Joanne Lockwood: your side of the education and me. If he needs work at home, you're part
Joanne Lockwood: of that. It's not just just the school. The contract is both ways, isn't it?
Crystal Jordan: So one thing I like about me, I always ask for a whole school
Crystal Jordan: communication guy. I'm a whole school communication. I'm sorry. Because since he
Crystal Jordan: is nonverbal, I need to be, I want to know how they went to school,
Crystal Jordan: what he did today, what was going on at school. So these are things
Crystal Jordan: that I personally ask for as accommodation that he's put in his
Crystal Jordan: IV. I'm curious. What makes Zach laugh and and
Joanne Lockwood: giggle and and and have fun? What what does he do?
Crystal Jordan: Oh, God. I got a story for y'all. So last week, the
Crystal Jordan: teacher called me. I'm at work. The teacher was like,
Crystal Jordan: we can't find Zach's shoe. See, he's take
Crystal Jordan: his shoes off and they said, every time we look for it, he laughs.
Crystal Jordan: So the school had to get him some brand new shoes. They said, send it
Crystal Jordan: home with some new shoes. Guess what a shoe was? And his school
Joanne Lockwood: bag? No, the shoe was up under all of the
Crystal Jordan: coats in a closet. He put it in the
Crystal Jordan: closet up under all those coats that like the school always
Crystal Jordan: give the kids who can afford it. Like shoes, clothes,
Crystal Jordan: coats. Yeah. So he hit the shoe under there and
Crystal Jordan: they say every time he looked, he looked for the shoe, they looked in the
Crystal Jordan: trash. They said Zach would just laugh and like he was the
Crystal Jordan: funniest thing. That boy is funny. He thinks he
Crystal Jordan: thinks everything's funny. I favor. So the stereotype
Joanne Lockwood: would be that because he's nonverbal because he's has autism
Joanne Lockwood: that you wouldn't have humor. You wouldn't have that level of intelligence. So just
Joanne Lockwood: because he's nonverbal, just because he's autistic doesn't mean to say he hasn't a
Joanne Lockwood: person with a personality, a cheekiness, a mischievous
Joanne Lockwood: side as well. Also, most people what what people think
Crystal Jordan: is because he's not verbal, he don't understand. And
Crystal Jordan: that's not true. So he's able to he can interpret. He can he he
Joanne Lockwood: understands language. Right. Can he can he read at
Joanne Lockwood: all? That is to be determined. I don't
Crystal Jordan: know if he can read or not. Part of me thinks so, but I don't
Crystal Jordan: know. He may not gonna recognize words, but not not read. Does that make so
Joanne Lockwood: he could he can tell what that means. Maybe biscuits or cake
Joanne Lockwood: or something. I don't know because I that's something I'm trying to
Crystal Jordan: figure out as we speak. So I I don't know if he can read or
Crystal Jordan: not. This one, I don't know. How old is he now? 7. He'd be
Crystal Jordan: 8.7? He'd be 8 or 20. Oh, blimey.
Joanne Lockwood: Uh-huh. So yeah. That I'm just trying to think back to when our
Joanne Lockwood: children were 8. Both our children had, developmental differences
Joanne Lockwood: where it turned out our son had dyslexia and
Joanne Lockwood: our daughter had a different sort of dyslexia. We struggled to get our
Joanne Lockwood: education system to recognize that. And also we struggled as
Joanne Lockwood: parents to identify with it. We we were getting very frustrated when our
Joanne Lockwood: son couldn't do his alphabet, or we're holding
Joanne Lockwood: flashcards up with a for apple and b for bear or something. And
Joanne Lockwood: he he he just couldn't get a for apple. And we just didn't understand it.
Joanne Lockwood: We were getting very frustrated with him. And when we finally had this diagnosis
Joanne Lockwood: for, dyslexia, we suddenly understood why he's not able to
Joanne Lockwood: recognize letters and shapes and things. But it took us many years to that.
Joanne Lockwood: So when he got to about 8, I think we started realizing more. We even
Joanne Lockwood: sent him to an optician to have his eyes tested and they gave him glasses,
Joanne Lockwood: but he never would wear his glasses. Then we realized what was happening was the
Joanne Lockwood: eye test is all about picking letters off a chart because he couldn't
Joanne Lockwood: recognize the shapes in the letters. His dyslexia was stopping him past the eye test.
Joanne Lockwood: So they assumed he was stroking with eyes. In reality, it was his
Joanne Lockwood: dyslexia. So, yeah, there's a lot of lessons that we had to learn about with
Joanne Lockwood: a child who wasn't developing in the way that you expect them
Joanne Lockwood: to. And you have to overcome this the knowledge gap in your own self
Joanne Lockwood: and and educate the people around you. It's a challenge, isn't it? Yes. It
Crystal Jordan: is. So what what surprised you in the last year with Zach? You
Joanne Lockwood: know, he he's getting older. He's learning stuff. Obviously, this cheekiness and
Joanne Lockwood: hiding his shoe is quite quite an adventure. But what what other things has he
Joanne Lockwood: has he surprised you with? This goes down so simple to somebody
Crystal Jordan: else. What surprised me this year well, so far
Crystal Jordan: with Zachariah is him getting dressed, him putting his
Crystal Jordan: shoes on, him knowing when I was in the bathroom to get dressed, he know
Crystal Jordan: I'm leaving. So he would go downstairs and get dressed and pull out his
Crystal Jordan: clothes. He'd be matching, for his shoes
Crystal Jordan: on. He'd be ready. Like, I'm ready. And for me,
Crystal Jordan: I'm like, that's that's independent. And that's what I want for you. So that
Joanne Lockwood: that beginning of independence where he does stuff on his
Joanne Lockwood: own, that's that's what's really inspiring you. Yep. That is that makes my
Crystal Jordan: day. I can see that. Yeah. I can see that too. It's, all of your
Joanne Lockwood: advocacy, your hardware, the IEP, all of these sort of things are starting
Joanne Lockwood: to show this progress. And Right. It gives you
Joanne Lockwood: the faith that things are working, doesn't it? Yes, it
Crystal Jordan: does. They show that that's my crazy strategies. They're not
Crystal Jordan: really crazy, but my strategies are really working. So what what else did you are
Joanne Lockwood: you planning for this year and beyond? You know, you've got your
Joanne Lockwood: Zachariah's World. You've got your books, your 20 odd books, and some of the advocacy
Joanne Lockwood: work you're doing and building the communities. What other things are you working on?
Crystal Jordan: So I'm dropping the autism awareness in Neurodiverse
Crystal Jordan: Magazine. Is dropping April 2,
Crystal Jordan: 25. I'm super excited about this because I'm focusing
Crystal Jordan: on not just autism, but all disabilities. So this is about to
Crystal Jordan: be a powerful magazine. This is about to be a
Crystal Jordan: magazine that shapes how we look at other individuals who don't look
Crystal Jordan: like us or act like us or think like us. And I'm also working
Crystal Jordan: on writing my book on how to be an advocate
Crystal Jordan: and I'm breaking down my strategies because it was highly requested.
Crystal Jordan: And then last but not least, no, not last, not least. I have
Crystal Jordan: a couple of days. I'm working on a community for moms. And now last
Crystal Jordan: but not least, I'm working on a mocktail recipe book. Cause I don't drink
Crystal Jordan: alcohol. Not really. It may be like super rare,
Crystal Jordan: but I don't drink alcohol. So I'm coming out with a, mocktail recipe
Crystal Jordan: book. I don't drink either. I gave up 3 years ago. I've been sober now
Joanne Lockwood: for 3 and a bit years. So, yeah, it's a good good thing for me.
Joanne Lockwood: But, that sounds amazing. There are people gonna be listening to this who either know
Joanne Lockwood: someone with an autistic child. How can they,
Joanne Lockwood: a, sorry, help and and help the parents, the, you know, the
Joanne Lockwood: person they're talking to, the father, the mother, whoever maybe you're talking to. How can
Joanne Lockwood: people support them most effectively? I'd say
Crystal Jordan: be understanding, be patient, and offer, hey. Do you need do you
Crystal Jordan: need time off? Do you want me to come babysit your kid while you just
Crystal Jordan: run to the store for an hour or go running or do
Crystal Jordan: something? Sometimes we just need a break. So
Joanne Lockwood: How how can we help if if I was living next door to you
Joanne Lockwood: and I I came to you and said, Crystal, you need a break. I need
Joanne Lockwood: to help. I'm kinda nervous. I'm worried about
Joanne Lockwood: taking on that responsibility for for Zachariah for an hour, 2
Joanne Lockwood: hours because I don't have any experience of autistic children myself. How
Joanne Lockwood: can I overcome that anxiety that I might have in being able to reach out
Joanne Lockwood: to you? I would recommend come sit with
Crystal Jordan: me for a couple days out of the month or out of the week or
Crystal Jordan: whatever, whatever your ability is. And you can see how he
Crystal Jordan: navigates or how she navigates and we can learn,
Crystal Jordan: Hey, this work for him. This doesn't work for him. My son is all about
Crystal Jordan: a blanket and a tablet. As long he got a blanket over
Crystal Jordan: him and a tablet, he'll be fine in his snacks.
Crystal Jordan: He's really easy to watch. So it's his happy place? His happy place is
Crystal Jordan: out of her blanket and with his, tablet and some
Crystal Jordan: snacks. Does he again, I I'd be worried that you give him the
Joanne Lockwood: instruction. Give him his blanket. Give him his tablet. He'd be fine. But what if
Joanne Lockwood: he isn't? What what what can go wrong? And Just call me, and I'll
Crystal Jordan: come back. Go ahead. Yeah. Obviously. Obviously. Yeah. Good plan.
Joanne Lockwood: Because I I'd be nervous, and I I I was really nervous
Joanne Lockwood: taking our 2 children home for the first time. We take them out of hospital.
Joanne Lockwood: We take them home. We put them on the bed. What do I do now?
Joanne Lockwood: Will I break this child? And so, yeah, we we could do get nervous about
Joanne Lockwood: stepping out of our comfort zone sometimes, don't we? Yeah. We
Crystal Jordan: do. Because people you know, you said me
Joanne Lockwood: people get confused about the language. As you said, if we're worried about the little
Joanne Lockwood: tiny thing, are you an autistic child or child with autism, all these kind of
Joanne Lockwood: things we talk about. But there's a there's a lack of knowledge.
Joanne Lockwood: We all we all live in our own little echo chamber. We all blinkers on.
Joanne Lockwood: We hear what we know. Anything outside of that, we we tend to be
Joanne Lockwood: blissfully unaware of. And I think, hopefully, things we talked about today
Joanne Lockwood: will give people some more confidence to find out more, to, to investigate,
Joanne Lockwood: to read some of your books. But, yeah, there's, there's definitely a nervousness. So
Joanne Lockwood: I was, I was nervous around our friend down
Joanne Lockwood: syndrome child for a while. Because he was unpredictable.
Joanne Lockwood: He was hard to read, hard to plan for. There was no
Joanne Lockwood: way of having a conversation in the same way. So you have to learn.
Joanne Lockwood: Try not to be patronizing. You don't talk to them as if they're a small
Joanne Lockwood: child. You have to sort of treat him as a as an adult because he's
Joanne Lockwood: now an adult. You have to treat him as a teenager when he's a teenager.
Joanne Lockwood: And if you don't care for without that exposure, without that learning, without
Joanne Lockwood: that advocacy, you could become very nervous and hold back. And I think that's what
Joanne Lockwood: people are worried about getting it wrong. Right.
Crystal Jordan: But give yourself grace and patience. Grace and
Crystal Jordan: patience is all you need. Grace and patience. I like that. Yeah. Be kind to
Joanne Lockwood: yourself and reach out and learn
Joanne Lockwood: and grow. You don't no one's gonna criticize you for trying, are
Joanne Lockwood: they? And if they do criticize you, then just don't
Crystal Jordan: help them no more. Yeah. Because so we've been chatting around
Joanne Lockwood: chatting away for, well, over an hour now in the green room and before we
Joanne Lockwood: went live. And we had Zac joining the conversation as well, which is
Joanne Lockwood: incredible. How do people get ahold of you? What's the best platform? And do we
Joanne Lockwood: Google you? My the best way you can get in contact with
Crystal Jordan: me is I am Crystal Jordan on all platforms. And no matter what
Crystal Jordan: platform it is, you can just type in I am Crystal Jordan. My name is
Crystal Jordan: so easy. It's I m, and it's c r y s t a
Crystal Jordan: l, Jordan, j o r d a n. I'm sure, and I'll put all the
Joanne Lockwood: details in the show notes. I think you've given me some links, which I'll,
Joanne Lockwood: in the, in the forms of zachariahsworld.com so we
Joanne Lockwood: can we can signpost all that for you. And, no, it's been a
Joanne Lockwood: absolute pleasure talking to you. I'm finding out more about Zach,
Joanne Lockwood: finding more about you. And I'm certainly more educated around
Joanne Lockwood: autistic children than I was before. Oh, thank you. And hopefully, I'll be less
Joanne Lockwood: nervous about being around people, parents who have have
Joanne Lockwood: autistic children and be able to offer some support. Thank you. But
Crystal Jordan: yeah. Yeah. Yes. Become an ally and just keep doing what you're doing. Telling the
Joanne Lockwood: stories, normalizing the conversations without using the word normal. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: It's, creating the awareness out there. We all I think we can all take
Joanne Lockwood: personal responsibility for raising awareness Yes. And doing our own
Joanne Lockwood: education. I agree. And thank you so much for just having me on
Crystal Jordan: your platform and having this amazing conversation. Crystal, thank
Joanne Lockwood: you very much. As we bring this conversation
Joanne Lockwood: to a close, I want to express my deepest gratitude to
Joanne Lockwood: you, our listener, for lending your ear and
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Joanne Lockwood: is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with
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