WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:11.219 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 2 00:00:11.360 --> 00:00:15.125 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 3 00:00:15.265 --> 00:00:19.205 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, 4 00:00:19.825 --> 00:00:23.425 belonging, and societal transformation. Ever 5 00:00:23.425 --> 00:00:27.265 wondered what it truly takes to create a world where everyone not 6 00:00:27.265 --> 00:00:30.550 only belongs but thrives? You're not 7 00:00:30.930 --> 00:00:34.149 alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, 8 00:00:34.690 --> 00:00:38.629 challenge the status quo, and share stories that resonate 9 00:00:38.770 --> 00:00:42.465 deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're 10 00:00:42.465 --> 00:00:46.385 sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's 11 00:00:46.385 --> 00:00:49.925 connect, reflect, and inspire action 12 00:00:49.985 --> 00:00:53.684 together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation 13 00:00:53.745 --> 00:00:55.344 too. Reach out to 14 00:00:55.344 --> 00:00:59.320 jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to 15 00:00:59.320 --> 00:01:02.700 share your insights or to join me on the show. 16 00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:07.160 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 17 00:01:07.160 --> 00:01:10.780 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 18 00:01:14.625 --> 00:01:18.625 And today is episode 161 with the 19 00:01:18.625 --> 00:01:22.625 title, beyond the DEI backlash. And 20 00:01:22.625 --> 00:01:26.225 I have the absolute honor and privilege to welcome Wema Hoover. 21 00:01:26.225 --> 00:01:30.100 Wema is a global diversity, equity, and inclusion expert 22 00:01:30.100 --> 00:01:33.700 and former chief diversity officer for Fortune 500 23 00:01:33.700 --> 00:01:37.640 companies, including, no less, Google and Sanofi, 24 00:01:38.259 --> 00:01:42.100 dedicated to driving systemic change and cultural transformation. When I 25 00:01:42.100 --> 00:01:45.774 asked Weymah to describe her superpower, she said that it is championing 26 00:01:46.475 --> 00:01:50.475 sustainable DEI strategies in a shifting corporate landscape. 27 00:01:50.475 --> 00:01:53.935 And don't we need that right now? Hello, Wema. Welcome to the show. 28 00:01:54.475 --> 00:01:58.110 Hello, Joanne. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. 29 00:01:59.150 --> 00:02:03.070 Yes. And you're based in the New Jersey, 30 00:02:03.070 --> 00:02:06.750 did I hear you say? I am. I'm based based in Princeton, New Jersey, 31 00:02:06.910 --> 00:02:10.750 which is right outside New York City and situated between 32 00:02:10.750 --> 00:02:14.194 Philadelphia and New York. It's a bit nippy, bit cold over there at the moment. 33 00:02:15.454 --> 00:02:19.394 Yes. We've got a cold front. This is our typical Northeast 34 00:02:19.614 --> 00:02:23.314 weather that we have forgotten for many years, but came back blistering 35 00:02:23.454 --> 00:02:27.135 over this. Yeah. But it's quite nostalgic. I don't I don't mind so 36 00:02:27.135 --> 00:02:30.940 much. No. It's it's nice sometimes. It it changes it up a bit 37 00:02:30.940 --> 00:02:34.700 as you I think you're saying in the agreement, get chance to wear some different 38 00:02:34.700 --> 00:02:38.620 shoes, different coats, and, different outfits. Exactly. I'm pulling out 39 00:02:38.620 --> 00:02:42.460 all of my heavy coat and my various different, shoes that 40 00:02:42.460 --> 00:02:46.365 has Gore Tex and the different materials for cold weather to keep your feet 41 00:02:46.365 --> 00:02:49.645 warm. So it's been a lot. It's been a long you know, we would definitely 42 00:02:49.645 --> 00:02:53.645 will welcome the spring, but right now, the fireplace, the 43 00:02:53.645 --> 00:02:57.405 heated blankets, all of that, I'm enjoying. I'm enjoying for the 44 00:02:57.405 --> 00:03:01.370 moment. I'm shivering just thinking about it. Yeah. In The UK, it's we get 45 00:03:01.370 --> 00:03:04.810 frightened if it gets to one degree centigrade. So, yeah, we have, we're struggling here 46 00:03:04.810 --> 00:03:08.810 at the moment. K. Waima, you're telling me about your name. It's a beautiful 47 00:03:08.810 --> 00:03:12.605 name. What's the what's the history behind it? Thank you. 48 00:03:12.605 --> 00:03:16.444 Yes. My name is Wema, which is Swahili, and it's, spelled 49 00:03:16.444 --> 00:03:19.985 w e m a, and the e is pronounced like a long a, that language. 50 00:03:20.205 --> 00:03:24.205 And it means true goodness. So, that is, you know, the back road of 51 00:03:24.205 --> 00:03:27.970 my name and was given to me through my parents. They 52 00:03:27.970 --> 00:03:31.970 were, you know, in the early seventies and here in America wanted 53 00:03:31.970 --> 00:03:35.910 to embrace our heritage. And so I've embraced it and I've hopefully 54 00:03:36.050 --> 00:03:39.925 lived up to the name through the work that I've done and 55 00:03:39.925 --> 00:03:42.805 how I show up in the world. That's a truly beautiful day, Amanda, and even 56 00:03:42.805 --> 00:03:46.645 more peaceful meaning. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Lovely to meet you. 57 00:03:47.685 --> 00:03:51.525 We talked about your superpower. You know, championing sustainable DEI strategies as shifting 58 00:03:51.525 --> 00:03:55.080 corporate landscape. And we first started talking about this 59 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:58.060 podcast back in October, November last year, and 60 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:03.239 the landscape has shifted. It's not aggressively slow anymore. It's like a it's 61 00:04:03.239 --> 00:04:07.015 been an avalanche in the last few weeks, hasn't it? What's happened? It 62 00:04:07.015 --> 00:04:10.615 has. You know, it's been quite this change under our 63 00:04:10.615 --> 00:04:13.755 new political administration, which has, you know, really 64 00:04:14.855 --> 00:04:18.695 targeted diversity, equity, inclusion programs as one as as 65 00:04:18.695 --> 00:04:21.834 being unfair and discriminated against, 66 00:04:22.760 --> 00:04:26.220 you know, those that are not in the minority and marginalized 67 00:04:26.280 --> 00:04:30.200 community. And which I think is unfortunate about it is that 68 00:04:30.200 --> 00:04:34.040 it is really not understanding and taking, in 69 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:37.905 consideration the intent of diversity, equity, inclusion program, which 70 00:04:37.905 --> 00:04:41.745 is not to provide advantage or preference, but it's 71 00:04:41.745 --> 00:04:45.585 to provide access and level opportunities so the best 72 00:04:45.585 --> 00:04:49.585 and brightest can shine. But unfortunately, that is not the narrative that is 73 00:04:49.585 --> 00:04:52.830 being purported, and it is actually being hijacked. 74 00:04:53.210 --> 00:04:57.130 And really, you know, a lot of misinformation around it is 75 00:04:57.130 --> 00:05:00.910 prevailing. And, what I am doing, through my work and my consultancy 76 00:05:01.290 --> 00:05:05.175 is helping organizations continue to leverage inclusion, 77 00:05:05.555 --> 00:05:08.775 equity, tapping into the diverse experiences, 78 00:05:09.155 --> 00:05:12.775 perspectives, backgrounds, sexual orientation of the workforce 79 00:05:13.155 --> 00:05:16.850 so that it can truly, truly maximize, the talent and 80 00:05:16.850 --> 00:05:20.850 potential that'll drive their organizations forward. So I'm working with, you 81 00:05:20.850 --> 00:05:24.370 know, my clients and I'm working also with organizations to 82 00:05:24.370 --> 00:05:28.305 ensure that the, you know, that the true meaning, and, and, 83 00:05:28.305 --> 00:05:32.225 and, and essence and purpose of inclusion, equity, and 84 00:05:32.225 --> 00:05:35.985 really the value of diversity is not lost and that it can 85 00:05:35.985 --> 00:05:39.745 still be leveraged, not only for the employee engagement to make 86 00:05:39.745 --> 00:05:43.509 sure that everyone feels like they are working in a 87 00:05:43.509 --> 00:05:47.449 safe, welcoming environment that they feel like we belong, 88 00:05:47.669 --> 00:05:51.509 but also for connecting with the customers, the clients, and 89 00:05:51.509 --> 00:05:55.350 having impact. Right? And serving, you know, your constituency in the 90 00:05:55.350 --> 00:05:59.265 most, culturally relevant and respectful and dignified way. Do you think 91 00:05:59.265 --> 00:06:01.685 some of this backlash is because 92 00:06:03.105 --> 00:06:06.785 many people trying to implement the equity agenda, for want of a better way of 93 00:06:06.785 --> 00:06:10.200 describing it? I don't I don't like that phrase myself, felt that they were being 94 00:06:10.200 --> 00:06:14.120 marginalized themselves. So the the white man has found 95 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:18.040 themselves being pushed out of opportunity, and that's where the backlash 96 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:21.960 has come from. Yes, Joanne. I think it's a bit of that. 97 00:06:21.960 --> 00:06:25.565 And, also, I think there is a mindset of zero sum 98 00:06:25.565 --> 00:06:29.485 gain so that if you gain and have 99 00:06:29.485 --> 00:06:33.345 access and I see more of people who are not like me, 100 00:06:33.645 --> 00:06:37.490 then I am automatically assuming that I'm at a loss. When in 101 00:06:37.490 --> 00:06:41.410 actuality, it is not, you know, a zero sum 102 00:06:41.410 --> 00:06:45.350 game. It is opening the aperture so that the true 103 00:06:45.490 --> 00:06:49.250 fabric of what United States and America was made on 104 00:06:49.250 --> 00:06:52.915 actually flourishes. Right? It actually flourishes and thrive 105 00:06:52.915 --> 00:06:56.675 because if you look at any point in history and especially in The United States 106 00:06:56.675 --> 00:07:00.595 history, the time that United States have grown from 107 00:07:00.595 --> 00:07:04.375 an industrial standpoint, from a technical standpoint, from a manufacturing 108 00:07:04.675 --> 00:07:08.610 standpoint is also correlates to the highest times of 109 00:07:08.610 --> 00:07:12.390 immigration. So that diversity was at the center 110 00:07:12.450 --> 00:07:15.990 of every growth, every expansion, 111 00:07:16.770 --> 00:07:20.685 every innovative, in in in innovative change and shift 112 00:07:20.685 --> 00:07:24.685 in the country, it was correlated with immigration and really being able to 113 00:07:24.685 --> 00:07:28.285 leverage all of the different talent experiences and skill 114 00:07:28.285 --> 00:07:31.885 skills of the people coming into our country. So the sad thing about it is, 115 00:07:31.885 --> 00:07:35.750 is that we know this, this is evident. This is in our history, in 116 00:07:35.750 --> 00:07:39.270 our research, but yet in yet instilled this like, you know, 117 00:07:39.270 --> 00:07:43.190 misinformed and, you know, completely false narrative is 118 00:07:43.190 --> 00:07:46.755 raining because there is an assumption that, you know, 119 00:07:46.755 --> 00:07:50.595 because we're giving the opportunities that there is a loss for a 120 00:07:50.595 --> 00:07:54.354 particular community or a group of people. And my fear is that that 121 00:07:54.354 --> 00:07:58.134 loss is gonna translate into a loss of our ability 122 00:07:58.195 --> 00:08:02.134 to become and maintain our competitive nature to harness 123 00:08:02.250 --> 00:08:06.090 the, the true talent and potential and that, you know, we live in a global 124 00:08:06.090 --> 00:08:09.850 world right now. These are individual, you know, people are able to, you 125 00:08:09.850 --> 00:08:13.850 know, be employed to get opportunities outside of The US or in 126 00:08:13.850 --> 00:08:17.845 other forms. So I say that it's even more imperative now for 127 00:08:17.845 --> 00:08:20.585 our society, for organizations, to really 128 00:08:21.685 --> 00:08:25.205 anchor themselves and connect their, you 129 00:08:25.205 --> 00:08:29.045 know, DEI efforts, inclusion efforts, whether it's just 130 00:08:29.045 --> 00:08:32.740 be shifting the names, making sure that it is really centering all 131 00:08:32.740 --> 00:08:36.659 people so that they can truly tap into and and and leverage and 132 00:08:36.659 --> 00:08:40.520 maximize the the best skills, innovation, ideas, and perspectives 133 00:08:40.659 --> 00:08:44.179 of the people in society. What's surprising me is the number 134 00:08:44.179 --> 00:08:47.915 of household names, big brands that are 135 00:08:47.915 --> 00:08:51.375 suddenly purging their own DEI 136 00:08:51.435 --> 00:08:55.355 initiatives, on their Facebook pages, pages on their 137 00:08:55.355 --> 00:08:59.180 website, not part of the federal government. They'd be waiting 138 00:08:59.180 --> 00:09:02.960 for an excuse to drop this, or do you think it's they're being leveraged by 139 00:09:03.500 --> 00:09:07.280 by the administration to make these changes? Yeah. That's an interesting, 140 00:09:07.660 --> 00:09:11.660 question, Joanna. And I, you know, and I I wanna, you know, actually 141 00:09:11.660 --> 00:09:15.525 address that. And although we have been seeing, 142 00:09:15.665 --> 00:09:18.805 you know, a ramped amount and and been publicized, 143 00:09:19.825 --> 00:09:23.745 the companies that are kind of deinvesting or minimizing their 144 00:09:23.745 --> 00:09:27.440 DEI, which is a propaganda strategy as 145 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:30.400 well, because it's not, it's not, it's not all of them. I mean, if you, 146 00:09:30.400 --> 00:09:34.240 you look at it, I think, you know, they did, a, an 147 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:38.000 estimate and I think it was between seven to 8% of the Fortune 148 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:41.935 500 companies. However, if you also extract that and 149 00:09:41.935 --> 00:09:45.855 dig a little deeper, those are the companies that have only been invested 150 00:09:45.855 --> 00:09:49.555 in DEI probably for the last four to five years. So 151 00:09:49.695 --> 00:09:53.580 they're the ones who literally, when we had the 152 00:09:53.740 --> 00:09:57.740 horrible murder of George Floyd in 2020, that was a pivotal 153 00:09:57.740 --> 00:10:01.500 point, not only in The United States, but across every market and every 154 00:10:01.500 --> 00:10:05.340 country where you really looked at, you know, what is 155 00:10:05.340 --> 00:10:08.835 happening between the markets, not only the opportunities, 156 00:10:09.375 --> 00:10:13.155 but the impact that they're having in society with access to, 157 00:10:13.775 --> 00:10:17.235 you know, grow to have opportunities that everyone was reevaluating. 158 00:10:17.775 --> 00:10:21.615 Those are the companies who really touted and stood 159 00:10:21.615 --> 00:10:25.270 up their programs. And now, you know, we can truly say that 160 00:10:25.270 --> 00:10:29.270 perhaps that was just window dressing. Right. It was a moment in time that 161 00:10:29.270 --> 00:10:33.270 it was socially acceptable to do something, do those. But if you really kind 162 00:10:33.270 --> 00:10:36.885 of dig into those that have de invested are the ones that have not 163 00:10:37.125 --> 00:10:41.125 been, has not had it a part of their strategic imperatives that has 164 00:10:41.125 --> 00:10:44.965 only been, you know, really focused on it through 165 00:10:44.965 --> 00:10:48.930 that time, right, as a response, but not as a 166 00:10:49.089 --> 00:10:52.930 practical approach to their workforce development, to 167 00:10:52.930 --> 00:10:56.390 their talent strategy, and to their 168 00:10:56.450 --> 00:11:00.370 market segmentation and ability to drive their business. 169 00:11:00.370 --> 00:11:03.570 I remember probably six or seven years ago, if not maybe more, when it was 170 00:11:03.570 --> 00:11:07.065 either North Carolina or South North Carolina had the bathroom bill, wasn't it? They signed 171 00:11:07.065 --> 00:11:10.825 the bathroom bill in North Carolina, the first state to do so. There was a 172 00:11:10.825 --> 00:11:14.425 real solidarity between behind a lot of 173 00:11:14.425 --> 00:11:18.160 serious brands and corporate companies posing it, 174 00:11:18.160 --> 00:11:22.160 pulling their confidence out of it, basically saying, we're not gonna support North Carolina anymore. 175 00:11:22.160 --> 00:11:26.080 That is that solidarity still there? Is that is there other people gonna push back, 176 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:30.000 or is the the administration too powerful at the federal level 177 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:33.714 now? You know, that is a broad question, and I I 178 00:11:33.714 --> 00:11:37.555 can't give a definitive answer. What I can say is that I think 179 00:11:37.555 --> 00:11:41.495 right now, we are still within the first one hundred days of our new administration. 180 00:11:42.115 --> 00:11:45.960 And I think everyone is really paralyzed because no one 181 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:49.560 knows what's coming next. These changes have come so fast and 182 00:11:49.560 --> 00:11:53.400 furious. I think everyone is really trying to kind of make 183 00:11:53.400 --> 00:11:56.620 meaning of what to do, how to maintain, 184 00:11:57.215 --> 00:12:00.895 you know, the efforts and their intention, the ones who, you know, the 185 00:12:00.895 --> 00:12:04.815 companies, organizations, and the states that are truly trying to make a difference and 186 00:12:04.815 --> 00:12:08.735 ensuring that everyone feels safe, feels included, feels like 187 00:12:08.735 --> 00:12:12.610 they belong, have this environment that they can truly be their authentic self. So 188 00:12:12.610 --> 00:12:16.450 I do believe that right now we are in a place of 189 00:12:16.450 --> 00:12:20.230 just being stale and waiting to see what is happening 190 00:12:20.290 --> 00:12:24.050 because literally these things, you know, Joanna's happening daily. I, I, I 191 00:12:24.050 --> 00:12:27.815 cannot tell you. It's almost like our head is spinning every 192 00:12:27.815 --> 00:12:31.595 single day with something new. And so I 193 00:12:31.654 --> 00:12:34.694 have been counseled and I, you know, I know a lot of, 194 00:12:36.055 --> 00:12:40.055 the focus had been on how do we retain instead of being 195 00:12:40.055 --> 00:12:43.670 reactive and having an emotional and a 196 00:12:43.670 --> 00:12:47.590 direct response to these, all of the executive orders, the 197 00:12:47.590 --> 00:12:51.110 changes coming out, how do we retain what is good and what we know what 198 00:12:51.110 --> 00:12:54.825 works for us? How do we connect it to our value systems, 199 00:12:54.885 --> 00:12:58.885 connect it to how we share our shareholders? I gave you the examples. Costco. Costco's 200 00:12:58.885 --> 00:13:02.725 shareholder put a, vote to rid of its 201 00:13:02.725 --> 00:13:06.325 DEI programs and not have any of them. And 202 00:13:06.325 --> 00:13:09.950 Costco, you know, pushed back and said, no, we are not doing that 203 00:13:09.950 --> 00:13:13.790 because that is the nature and the essence of how we engage our 204 00:13:13.790 --> 00:13:17.709 customer and clients. And we want them to come into the Costco and feel 205 00:13:17.709 --> 00:13:19.913 that it is actually connected to them. It understands them. It's actually giving them, you 206 00:13:19.913 --> 00:13:23.615 know, products and services. You know, 207 00:13:23.755 --> 00:13:27.755 products and services and access to things that are and so they rejected them. 208 00:13:27.755 --> 00:13:31.595 And I think that that's what the position that, you know, 209 00:13:31.595 --> 00:13:35.355 kind of most organizations are. And I think that that's a position that most states 210 00:13:35.355 --> 00:13:38.790 are are doing, kind of how do we protect, right, protect right now in this 211 00:13:38.790 --> 00:13:42.709 series. See, you know, we're in still in that first hundred 212 00:13:42.709 --> 00:13:46.010 days, what it is coming that obviously can can legally, 213 00:13:46.870 --> 00:13:50.709 be, defended in this time and error. So 214 00:13:50.709 --> 00:13:53.465 we are still in the thick of of things, you know, but I think I 215 00:13:53.465 --> 00:13:56.765 shared with you earlier what is keeping me encouraged. 216 00:13:58.025 --> 00:14:01.485 Even though every day, it has been an effort to get up and stay encouraged, 217 00:14:02.425 --> 00:14:06.365 around, you know, the small you know, the acts of kindness that has been 218 00:14:06.425 --> 00:14:10.270 so increased tremendously. Like I've experienced it and I had done 219 00:14:10.270 --> 00:14:13.870 that. I think there is a spirit and energy. It's like, you know, whatever's happening 220 00:14:13.870 --> 00:14:17.730 at the macro level, what kindness, what extension of humanity 221 00:14:17.790 --> 00:14:21.710 can I drive myself that really impacts the community I am? 222 00:14:21.710 --> 00:14:25.595 I've felt that and seen that in tremendous ways. And that is giving 223 00:14:25.595 --> 00:14:29.515 me the energy and the courage to know that, you know, there is still that 224 00:14:29.515 --> 00:14:33.515 passive resistance through create you know, like Maha Gandhi said, you know, be 225 00:14:33.515 --> 00:14:36.875 the change you wanna create. And and I've experienced As an observer from the other 226 00:14:36.875 --> 00:14:40.779 side of the pond, the, it seems like a 227 00:14:40.779 --> 00:14:44.060 a dystopian reality that Margaret Atwood put, 228 00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:50.240 created in Handmaid's Tale. Some of these things are just with the last administration 229 00:14:50.540 --> 00:14:54.525 four or five years ago, I believe that things like that could happen. And I'm 230 00:14:54.525 --> 00:14:58.525 I'm believing it even more now that one day, women's rights are gonna be 231 00:14:58.525 --> 00:15:02.385 peeled back so far, and nobody's gonna be standing up and saying, no. We're dismantling 232 00:15:02.685 --> 00:15:06.065 too much of the protection mechanisms, Roe versus Wade 233 00:15:06.630 --> 00:15:10.550 to push back anti abortion everywhere, women being 234 00:15:10.550 --> 00:15:14.550 pulled out of influential positions in power, demonized for was it 235 00:15:14.550 --> 00:15:18.230 the the coast guard? Head of the coast guard was a woman being blamed for 236 00:15:18.230 --> 00:15:21.915 disasters, almost like a resetting. Rhetoric such as if you want a 237 00:15:21.915 --> 00:15:24.715 job done properly, it has to be a man, has to be a white man, 238 00:15:24.715 --> 00:15:28.635 and and women aren't able to deliver. We want more masculine energy according 239 00:15:28.635 --> 00:15:32.635 to Zuckerberg in organizations. So how far fetches Margaret 240 00:15:32.635 --> 00:15:36.420 Atwood's vision? Is something closer and closer now? You 241 00:15:36.420 --> 00:15:40.180 know, honestly, you know, I don't know how it is far 242 00:15:40.180 --> 00:15:43.860 fetched, but you know what they say, you know, reality is always 243 00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:47.780 stranger than fiction. Right? And so you have these things, but but again, you 244 00:15:47.780 --> 00:15:51.605 know, I wanna say that in any society, United States, you know, in The 245 00:15:51.605 --> 00:15:55.605 US and even abroad where we actually had other pundits that did not 246 00:15:55.605 --> 00:15:59.285 get, you know, I when I was living in France, I mean, you know, Marie 247 00:15:59.285 --> 00:16:03.285 Le Pen was was, you know, I was there during the election with Emmanuel Macron 248 00:16:03.285 --> 00:16:07.240 and she's not as dissimilar to to, our current president. 249 00:16:07.459 --> 00:16:10.680 But I do think that you have factions of opposing 250 00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:14.660 ideologies and political stances that are always at the fringes. 251 00:16:14.660 --> 00:16:17.860 Right? Because again, I go back to what I said earlier, there is a thought 252 00:16:17.860 --> 00:16:21.595 that difference equals loss. Difference equals, you 253 00:16:21.595 --> 00:16:25.515 know, there is, you know, a sense of change or 254 00:16:25.515 --> 00:16:28.895 hijacking what an entitlement that I believe that I have. 255 00:16:29.675 --> 00:16:33.530 You know, but I also do believe that, you know, this is a moment 256 00:16:33.530 --> 00:16:37.530 in time. And I think what is happening here, especially in United States, there 257 00:16:37.530 --> 00:16:41.130 is a reckoning, right? Because those who may have voted for the current 258 00:16:41.130 --> 00:16:45.105 administration did not realize just the kind 259 00:16:45.105 --> 00:16:48.945 of massive, not only changes, but dismantling that would 260 00:16:48.945 --> 00:16:52.884 happen that would affect their own backyard, you know, from an education 261 00:16:53.024 --> 00:16:56.945 system, from an immigration system, you know, from an access in social 262 00:16:56.945 --> 00:17:00.880 security. So I do think that there is this almost like, 263 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:05.440 still reality that, wow, this is not what I 264 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:09.280 signed up for. And, you know, because of that, you know, my hope, and I 265 00:17:09.280 --> 00:17:13.045 am encouraged that there will be more, you know, people that would 266 00:17:13.045 --> 00:17:17.045 stand up as we look at the midterms coming up and looking at the 267 00:17:17.045 --> 00:17:20.885 expectations that we have for our, you know, political leaders who represent 268 00:17:20.885 --> 00:17:24.565 us to actually put them in action. And that's to say, hey, you know what? 269 00:17:24.565 --> 00:17:28.470 We need to have people who understand not only my 270 00:17:28.470 --> 00:17:32.409 issues, but can actually create, a society of law and order, 271 00:17:32.710 --> 00:17:36.309 which feels like we don't have we which we don't have anymore. People have drawn 272 00:17:36.309 --> 00:17:40.309 parallels with, nineteen thirties Germany, '19 twenties, 273 00:17:40.309 --> 00:17:43.425 '19 thirties Germany, where the incumbent administration 274 00:17:44.205 --> 00:17:48.125 dismantled the protection mechanism in such a way that there was no one to 275 00:17:48.125 --> 00:17:51.645 stop them, and then a a momentum took place. And I think if you're not 276 00:17:51.645 --> 00:17:55.185 careful that this administration is now controlling the media. 277 00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:59.399 The, we realize how powerful social media is. Facebook X 278 00:17:59.399 --> 00:18:03.399 is a powerful outlet that drives opinion, and it would appear that the 279 00:18:03.399 --> 00:18:07.000 administration has implicit control over those of 280 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:10.595 those. Necessarily. I I would absolutely 281 00:18:10.975 --> 00:18:14.975 ascertain that the media outlets are giving a fair description of what is 282 00:18:14.975 --> 00:18:18.894 happening, and they are objectively challenging. I mean, 283 00:18:18.894 --> 00:18:22.350 even in the press rooms and even in the White House briefings, even in the 284 00:18:22.350 --> 00:18:25.870 news and the, as they have, if they could not, if they did not, I 285 00:18:25.870 --> 00:18:29.309 mean, they, they have to, because these are things that are accessible to the public, 286 00:18:29.309 --> 00:18:33.010 you know, the executive orders, gross negligence in some, in some instances, 287 00:18:33.230 --> 00:18:36.885 gross negligence, any confidence that is happening, they have, and it has 288 00:18:36.885 --> 00:18:40.725 been recorded really accurately and, and on those 289 00:18:40.725 --> 00:18:44.505 platforms. So I can't say that there is not like this shield 290 00:18:44.565 --> 00:18:47.605 that we are all putting at, you know, kind of putting up on us that 291 00:18:47.605 --> 00:18:51.470 we're not able to understand and know what's really going on. Oh, no. It's 292 00:18:51.470 --> 00:18:55.390 quite the opposite. It's almost like it's too much. We get all of the 293 00:18:55.390 --> 00:18:59.390 reality, but it is happening so fast and so daily that you 294 00:18:59.390 --> 00:19:03.390 almost get overwhelmed and it makes you have, you know, 295 00:19:03.390 --> 00:19:07.304 this feeling of helplessness, which, you know, may be 296 00:19:07.304 --> 00:19:11.225 a tactic that you're like, it's happening so fast. What can I do? And that's 297 00:19:11.225 --> 00:19:15.145 where I say, you know, we talked in the green room around, you know, the 298 00:19:15.145 --> 00:19:18.905 daily, the need for people daily to really wake up, 299 00:19:18.905 --> 00:19:22.700 understand, and be very thoughtful about the information they're taking 300 00:19:22.700 --> 00:19:26.460 in, how they're kind of making meaning of it. And then how are they kind 301 00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:30.059 of orienting themselves through meditation, through prayer, through whatever, through 302 00:19:30.059 --> 00:19:33.925 yoga, wherever, you know, kind of vehicle you use to ground yourself to do that. 303 00:19:33.925 --> 00:19:37.765 That is so important. And more important to where you have 304 00:19:37.765 --> 00:19:41.765 the opportunity to make those changes, have those micro behaviors, like 305 00:19:41.765 --> 00:19:45.685 in the area and the communities and environments that you are immediately 306 00:19:45.685 --> 00:19:49.240 in. Because although that's happening at a macro level, I can say the 307 00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:53.240 community level, people want to hold those values. People not only 308 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:56.200 hold those, they believe them. We are we are entrenched in them and not gonna 309 00:19:56.200 --> 00:20:00.040 let them know. Will we see another George Floyd? Maybe if 310 00:20:00.040 --> 00:20:03.995 not black American, maybe Hispanic Americans. Will we 311 00:20:03.995 --> 00:20:07.695 see another uprising due to some significant injustice 312 00:20:07.755 --> 00:20:11.275 that lights the barricade? Will we see something erupt, do you think? I pray that 313 00:20:11.275 --> 00:20:15.035 we don't. And that is my deep and and solemn prayer that we don't because 314 00:20:15.035 --> 00:20:18.875 that was horrific. And it was a time that and I wasn't even living in 315 00:20:18.875 --> 00:20:21.820 The United States at the time when that happened. I was still living in France. 316 00:20:21.820 --> 00:20:25.580 And I can tell you that it reverberated across the ocean, the 317 00:20:25.580 --> 00:20:29.440 continents. And in my role, I was leading diversity, equity, inclusion 318 00:20:29.660 --> 00:20:33.580 at the time and had all the global markets. Every market felt that. I 319 00:20:33.580 --> 00:20:37.424 don't, I would not pray for that, but I what I would would pray is 320 00:20:37.424 --> 00:20:41.345 that, you know, there is, an awakening and a 321 00:20:41.345 --> 00:20:45.184 veil lifted that, you know, it is not I don't I don't I 322 00:20:45.184 --> 00:20:49.080 don't even wanna say it's around diversity, equity, inclusion. I wanna say that 323 00:20:49.159 --> 00:20:52.120 it it is, you know, around this, 324 00:20:52.919 --> 00:20:56.700 fear of, you know, that different people, 325 00:20:57.080 --> 00:21:01.080 gender, sexual orientation, race are, you 326 00:21:01.080 --> 00:21:04.955 know, able to have opportunity and able to 327 00:21:04.955 --> 00:21:08.715 take positions and make effective change so that that this world and this 328 00:21:08.715 --> 00:21:12.635 country can literally be a place where everybody can 329 00:21:12.635 --> 00:21:16.380 thrive. And, you know, that is where there's a fear. There's a fear 330 00:21:16.380 --> 00:21:20.300 that, you know, when you look at the demographic census, you know, 331 00:21:20.300 --> 00:21:24.300 of United States, particularly of, you know, how, you know, people of color, 332 00:21:24.300 --> 00:21:28.300 you know, will continue to be the growing majority if you look at the 333 00:21:28.300 --> 00:21:31.605 ten, ten to fifteen years out. And that fear is driving that 334 00:21:31.845 --> 00:21:35.845 100%. And so it's masked in diversity equity inclusion, 335 00:21:35.845 --> 00:21:39.684 it's masked in, you know, xenophobia, it's, it's masked in, you know, 336 00:21:39.684 --> 00:21:43.525 misogyny, all any, you know, all the isms that you can think of, but that 337 00:21:43.525 --> 00:21:47.509 is the reality. But again, you know, I, I, I don't, you 338 00:21:47.509 --> 00:21:51.370 know, prescribe to the fact that it is dismal and we are not without 339 00:21:51.509 --> 00:21:55.509 hope or not without action because action is, is happening. We, we have 340 00:21:55.509 --> 00:21:59.350 federal judges and actions being taken to thwart it. But it, but I also 341 00:21:59.350 --> 00:22:02.945 think, again, like I said before, it, it has to come for each individual 342 00:22:03.165 --> 00:22:06.845 really imparting change within the community and the environment that they're 343 00:22:06.845 --> 00:22:10.845 in with organizations really aligning, you know, 344 00:22:10.845 --> 00:22:14.550 their efforts to their mission, their purpose, their kind of employee value 345 00:22:14.550 --> 00:22:18.410 proposition to their customer and, and, and, and client 346 00:22:18.550 --> 00:22:22.309 centricity, how they understand them. That has, it has to get back to the roots 347 00:22:22.309 --> 00:22:25.670 of why were you doing this in the first place? And those organizations that did 348 00:22:25.670 --> 00:22:29.655 not define that or never had that though, those 349 00:22:29.655 --> 00:22:33.575 strong roots to begin with, they're the ones who are backing off because it was 350 00:22:33.575 --> 00:22:37.575 not, it was not solid and anchored solidly in any 351 00:22:37.575 --> 00:22:41.350 type of fabric of why they were doing it. And so this is where, you 352 00:22:41.350 --> 00:22:45.350 know, I'm reporting and really, really, really encouraging others to 353 00:22:45.350 --> 00:22:49.190 stand and take action. So what what disenfranchised everybody to the 354 00:22:49.190 --> 00:22:53.030 point where they need to vote in this way? 355 00:22:53.030 --> 00:22:56.775 Because my my understanding again from this side of the pond is that, 356 00:22:57.174 --> 00:23:00.635 women, people of color, Hispanic, Latino, 357 00:23:01.015 --> 00:23:04.934 black communities, all voted or large enough numbers for 358 00:23:04.934 --> 00:23:08.809 this administration. What disenfranchised 359 00:23:08.950 --> 00:23:12.870 them from from the what was there before? There was must must be some reason 360 00:23:12.870 --> 00:23:16.070 why people were hanging on. I wanna vote for better. What was better they were 361 00:23:16.070 --> 00:23:19.750 expecting? Yeah. And so I'll preface it by saying I'm not a 362 00:23:19.750 --> 00:23:23.225 political strategist, although I I do think I understand, 363 00:23:23.605 --> 00:23:27.605 you know, and influence it, but, but, you know, from my perspective and 364 00:23:27.605 --> 00:23:31.125 when you look at the poll numbers, it wasn't that people voted for something. I 365 00:23:31.125 --> 00:23:34.105 think the problem is we had a lot of people who didn't vote at all. 366 00:23:34.405 --> 00:23:37.890 I think that there were a lot of assumptions that I'm not gonna, I'm gonna 367 00:23:37.890 --> 00:23:41.890 sit this one out. You know what I, this, this will never take place. 368 00:23:41.890 --> 00:23:45.750 You know, this administration will never get voted in and I'm just gonna let 369 00:23:45.810 --> 00:23:49.750 the politics go as it were, it was because there has been too many, 370 00:23:49.970 --> 00:23:53.674 too many kind of fractions back and forth. And I'm not wholly happy with, you 371 00:23:53.674 --> 00:23:57.115 know, the democratic party. I'm not wholly happy with the Republican party, but this will 372 00:23:57.115 --> 00:24:00.955 never happen. So it wasn't a vote for. It was, you know, 373 00:24:00.955 --> 00:24:04.715 a large, large, which is like, like a third or third of people who just 374 00:24:04.715 --> 00:24:08.690 didn't show up at all. Yes. So that that is the reality. And it wasn't 375 00:24:08.690 --> 00:24:12.690 a landslide at all. It was probably the least, I think. And again, I'm 376 00:24:12.690 --> 00:24:16.050 not a political strategist, but from what I I've read and I've known, you know, 377 00:24:16.050 --> 00:24:19.170 from the debriefs of the election was, 378 00:24:20.185 --> 00:24:24.185 the election that, you know, this party has won by the least margin in the 379 00:24:24.185 --> 00:24:28.025 past, I don't know, 10 to 12 elections. So it wasn't, it wasn't 380 00:24:28.025 --> 00:24:32.025 overwhelming. It was that group that just didn't come out because there 381 00:24:32.025 --> 00:24:35.639 was assumption that this would never happen. Kind like what we talked about with the 382 00:24:35.639 --> 00:24:39.639 handmaid's tale. This would never happen, and, oh, boy, will were we wrong. Well, that's 383 00:24:39.639 --> 00:24:43.259 what I wanted to say, actually. And the their their hypothesis 384 00:24:43.399 --> 00:24:47.240 was we were being too complacent for the rights we'd 385 00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:51.235 had, the life we were having. And it's 386 00:24:51.235 --> 00:24:54.195 now woken the world up, or certainly the Western world, to the fact that if 387 00:24:54.195 --> 00:24:58.115 you if you don't make a stand, you don't speak out, then 388 00:24:58.115 --> 00:25:01.155 you will get you will get change that you don't like. So every vote counts. 389 00:25:01.155 --> 00:25:04.470 Yeah. Yes. Not taking a stand and that complacency 390 00:25:05.490 --> 00:25:09.490 was absolutely the nail in the coffin for us. And I do 391 00:25:09.490 --> 00:25:13.330 think also there was just a kind of genuine assumption that that can never happen 392 00:25:13.330 --> 00:25:16.745 in our country again. We would never regress back to 393 00:25:17.205 --> 00:25:21.125 the time where every person is not seen, centered, and 394 00:25:21.125 --> 00:25:24.885 and and feels like they can have, a part of the American dream, and we 395 00:25:24.885 --> 00:25:28.885 are. And so it was, you know, kind of not on voting for. It's like, 396 00:25:28.885 --> 00:25:32.790 you know, I'm gonna let the politicians and the folks do. I'm gonna just sit 397 00:25:32.790 --> 00:25:35.590 out. And then it was a shoot. It was the largest amount that we've had 398 00:25:35.590 --> 00:25:39.110 in many, many elections of people who just didn't show up. Why won't we 399 00:25:39.750 --> 00:25:42.630 I I appreciate I'm pushing you out of your lane here a little bit into 400 00:25:42.630 --> 00:25:46.395 the political commentaries. Let me let me try and swerve you back into the comfort 401 00:25:46.395 --> 00:25:50.315