Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary
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Joanne Lockwood: ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.
Joanne Lockwood: Today is episode 165 with the title
Joanne Lockwood: Visibility, Empowerment and Authenticity.
Joanne Lockwood: And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Raimonda
Joanne Lockwood: Jankunaite. Raimonda is a visibility and
Joanne Lockwood: empowerment mentor, international speaker, author and
Joanne Lockwood: founder of Women Thrive Media, dedicated to amplifying women's voices
Joanne Lockwood: on a global stage. When I asked Raymonda to describe her
Joanne Lockwood: superpower, she said it is seeing the potential in others
Joanne Lockwood: before they see it in themselves and empowering them to step into
Joanne Lockwood: their true, authentic and apologetic,
Joanne Lockwood: unapologetic selves. Hello, Raimondo, welcome to the show.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Hi. So good to be here. I'm excited to finally be doing this
Raimonda Jankunaite: podcast with you, Joanne. Yes, likewise. I mean, we, we
Joanne Lockwood: met online. It's gotta be
Joanne Lockwood: four, five, maybe even pre Covid when you're just setting up your
Joanne Lockwood: online presence and what you do. I think I came on your show and you
Joanne Lockwood: interviewed me and we talked about some various things and it's been dying
Joanne Lockwood: to get you back on mine and it's great you connect. Thank you
Joanne Lockwood: for bearing with me with your name. Yeah, I had to. I practised that, as
Joanne Lockwood: you know, in the green room. I practised that several times because you're not
Joanne Lockwood: from Western Europe, you're from the Eastern side of Europe. So where do you come
Joanne Lockwood: from originally? Yeah, well, originally I am from
Raimonda Jankunaite: Lithuania and I grew up, was born there and grew up there and
Raimonda Jankunaite: I've actually spent. Spent 22 years living in the
Raimonda Jankunaite: UK and now I live in Spain. So I've kind of travelled
Raimonda Jankunaite: around, but originally from Lithuania. Ah,
Joanne Lockwood: I've been to Lithuania once and that was in the
Joanne Lockwood: noughties 2007, eight, something like that. I went to
Joanne Lockwood: Vilnius and had a. A stag
Joanne Lockwood: weekend. Yeah, they are quite in the old
Raimonda Jankunaite: Days. Back in the old days. Yeah, it was a.
Joanne Lockwood: I spent a bit of time in the old town in the cobbled area and
Joanne Lockwood: the sort of the. The very typical Balkan
Joanne Lockwood: old, old style town. You know, I've been to Latvia and,
Joanne Lockwood: and Estonia as well, so very similar cultures and architecture, isn't it?
Raimonda Jankunaite: Yeah, it. It is really a stunning place and it has really grown a lot
Raimonda Jankunaite: and changed over the last few years. I love going
Raimonda Jankunaite: back. I have not been able to be back since COVID but
Raimonda Jankunaite: it's a really lovely place, to be honest. Now I kind of travel
Raimonda Jankunaite: everywhere else and love my life in Spain. I've moved here four years
Raimonda Jankunaite: ago and it's just absolutely fantastic being here. Weather's a bit warmer, I
Joanne Lockwood: guess, on the Baltics, that a bit of coast there. It can
Joanne Lockwood: be a bit brutal, can't it? Yeah, absolutely. I wake up every day and I
Raimonda Jankunaite: thank myself for making this decision to be here.
Joanne Lockwood: So your, your work centres around empowering women,
Joanne Lockwood: amplifying voices, and
Joanne Lockwood: that authenticity sits in the heart of you because
Joanne Lockwood: you're empowering yourself, ensuring you have a voice.
Joanne Lockwood: So what was the trigger point? Where did that come from? You obviously haven't done
Joanne Lockwood: this all your life, so where did, where. Where did that momentum come from? Yeah,
Raimonda Jankunaite: for sure. You know, I. I do think that authenticity
Raimonda Jankunaite: comes from truly finding yourself some reason. It's the hardest thing for
Raimonda Jankunaite: people to do, just to be themselves. And I had very much of the same
Raimonda Jankunaite: struggles where I was hiding, hiding of who I am or
Raimonda Jankunaite: my true potential of who I can become. And
Raimonda Jankunaite: I started work in entrepreneurship when I was 21, so it
Raimonda Jankunaite: has been quite a few years I've been doing this. And I started first
Raimonda Jankunaite: with a community called Women In Business Club, which
Raimonda Jankunaite: was really amazing and it was gaining a lot of traction. And I was always
Raimonda Jankunaite: spotlighting women, I was always putting them on stages, putting them
Raimonda Jankunaite: on podcasts, interviewing them, running summits and doing
Raimonda Jankunaite: all this amazing work. Never really asking myself why
Raimonda Jankunaite: this was part of what I do, part of, like, why am I so
Raimonda Jankunaite: passionate? Until my mentor, Les Brown, asked me,
Raimonda Jankunaite: why do you want to speak? I joined his speaking programme in
Raimonda Jankunaite: 2021 and in one of our first calls, he said, right,
Raimonda Jankunaite: why do you want to speak? Why is this important to you? And in that
Raimonda Jankunaite: moment, in that split second, I realised something
Raimonda Jankunaite: and I said it. Mr. Les, I want to speak because I know what
Raimonda Jankunaite: it's like not to have a voice. And the
Raimonda Jankunaite: penny dropped for me where I realised, wow, that
Raimonda Jankunaite: is truly part of my mission of why I do what I do.
Joanne Lockwood: That's so true. Because if. If you're not speaking
Joanne Lockwood: and being heard, then others are speaking for you
Joanne Lockwood: and over the top of you or you have no place in that conversation. So
Joanne Lockwood: as a speaker, wherever, however, you just identify that having
Joanne Lockwood: that voice is so important, isn't it? Yeah. Well, for me, it was
Raimonda Jankunaite: more than just, I guess, not having a voice. I lost
Raimonda Jankunaite: my voice physically and mentally
Raimonda Jankunaite: when I faced trauma through a relationship that was a toxic
Raimonda Jankunaite: relationship and events that unfolded during the breakup of
Raimonda Jankunaite: that relationship. And I felt violated. I felt
Raimonda Jankunaite: violated emotionally, spiritually,
Raimonda Jankunaite: physically. And that brought on
Raimonda Jankunaite: shame, guilt, fear. I started to lose my identity,
Raimonda Jankunaite: I started to lose my confidence. And seeing myself in the
Raimonda Jankunaite: mirror, I couldn't see who I was anymore. So the only way
Raimonda Jankunaite: I could still function is almost putting on a mask and continue
Raimonda Jankunaite: to function, pretend that I was okay. And I literally
Raimonda Jankunaite: couldn't speak. For two years I couldn't speak. And I really
Raimonda Jankunaite: struggled. I challenged myself to try and get better,
Raimonda Jankunaite: but I didn't know that. I was struggling with depression and I was
Raimonda Jankunaite: struggling with the symptoms from what happened
Raimonda Jankunaite: that really tore me, tore my true self
Raimonda Jankunaite: sense of self away and my identity. And
Raimonda Jankunaite: that struggle was really what gave me the passion not
Raimonda Jankunaite: only to build my own voice back up, but then to help others,
Raimonda Jankunaite: especially women who may have gone through these kind of challenges and traumas
Raimonda Jankunaite: in their own lives. Yeah, I think I saw some of the echoes of
Joanne Lockwood: that part of your life on Facebook and you were quite public
Joanne Lockwood: around owning that part of your life. Did you also have a child at that
Joanne Lockwood: time as well? No, it was some time later. This
Raimonda Jankunaite: was in my mid-20s, so this was about 10 years ago.
Raimonda Jankunaite: It was. It was hard times. It was really hard times. And it took me
Raimonda Jankunaite: quite a while to find my voice again and
Raimonda Jankunaite: realise who I was. Because seeing yourself in a mirror
Raimonda Jankunaite: and you don't know who you are anymore. And I think that's what trauma does.
Raimonda Jankunaite: And I wrote about this when in 2021,
Raimonda Jankunaite: Mr. Les Brown asked me this question of why you want to
Raimonda Jankunaite: speak. Like I said, the penny dropped or why I've been doing all this work.
Raimonda Jankunaite: And then I started to own my truth. And this is where the unapologetic
Raimonda Jankunaite: comes from, starting to own your truth and speak your
Raimonda Jankunaite: truth. Because we are so often disempowered to
Raimonda Jankunaite: be our true, authentic self and speak our truth. And therefore, because we are
Raimonda Jankunaite: afraid of judgement, we have fear, shame of who we are.
Raimonda Jankunaite: And that rips our true, authentic selves and our voice away
Raimonda Jankunaite: from being able to speak and advocate for Ourselves. I think that's so true for
Raimonda Jankunaite: many people around the world.
Joanne Lockwood: Certainly when you have, we describe it as a marginalised characteristic or a
Joanne Lockwood: minority characteristic, being voiceless is one of the
Joanne Lockwood: side effects of that marginalisation not being heard. Does it, do you
Joanne Lockwood: think it disproportionately affects women intersectionally than the men, if you
Joanne Lockwood: like? I think women historically have been told
Raimonda Jankunaite: to fit in, to stay quiet, to not speak up, that
Raimonda Jankunaite: their voice don't matter. So I think there has been a lot of conditioning. Now
Raimonda Jankunaite: something like trauma can affect or say sexual abuse
Raimonda Jankunaite: can affect anyone. And certainly men have been affected by some
Raimonda Jankunaite: of the same things and I think they have been torn their voices away as
Raimonda Jankunaite: well. But certainly I think historically women have been torn
Raimonda Jankunaite: more so than the men. To some of it come down to
Joanne Lockwood: social conditioning. You said there that women traditionally
Joanne Lockwood: have been, let's use the word oppressed or marginalised
Joanne Lockwood: in their upbringing and generally a lower
Joanne Lockwood: expectation set on girls than boys. If it's lower
Raimonda Jankunaite: expectations, but certainly a different social conditioning
Raimonda Jankunaite: in the way we are expected to behave, in the way we were expected
Raimonda Jankunaite: to show up. Right. There's certain characteristics of boys, when they
Raimonda Jankunaite: show up, it shows leadership. If women show up in the same way,
Raimonda Jankunaite: they seem bossy. Right. So the labels and the
Raimonda Jankunaite: perception and biases that are built around
Raimonda Jankunaite: how unequally women and men are treated from
Raimonda Jankunaite: playgrounds to schools to their workplaces
Raimonda Jankunaite: and societies, it's undeniable and therefore we have
Raimonda Jankunaite: to break those biases and start a different
Raimonda Jankunaite: narrative. Do you think you were influenced by.
Joanne Lockwood: Undoubtedly you were influenced, but how much were you influenced by the culture
Joanne Lockwood: of where you were born in Lithuania
Joanne Lockwood: at that time? And I don't want to give your age away.
Joanne Lockwood: It was a different world in those parts of the world and
Joanne Lockwood: maybe still living in the echoes of the previous Soviet
Joanne Lockwood: Union and the countries are still emerging and finding their own identity themselves.
Joanne Lockwood: How did that influence being a young woman in
Joanne Lockwood: Lithuania at the time? I think my growing
Raimonda Jankunaite: up was just at the cusp of that turn of a
Raimonda Jankunaite: century of Lithuania becoming independent country. I was
Raimonda Jankunaite: brought up in a very women led family, if you like, and
Raimonda Jankunaite: very strong women. So from the very beginning I
Raimonda Jankunaite: observed women being strong and to some extent fearless,
Raimonda Jankunaite: yet at the same time suppressed. Suppressed by
Raimonda Jankunaite: domestic violence, by expectation that men
Raimonda Jankunaite: have the authority, they are in control, they
Raimonda Jankunaite: manage the funds of the house. So women, even though,
Raimonda Jankunaite: let's say in my own household, this was not always the truth because my
Raimonda Jankunaite: mom had contributed a lot to the business
Raimonda Jankunaite: of our family, yet my dad was Always in control of the money.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Right. So some of these things, of course, starts to shape your
Raimonda Jankunaite: perception from an early childhood. But
Raimonda Jankunaite: travelling to the UK and when I came to the UK, I was 13 years
Raimonda Jankunaite: old, I didn't speak English, I couldn't start education there because at first I was
Raimonda Jankunaite: an immigrant. But what I got thrown into is this melting pot
Raimonda Jankunaite: of diverse people, people from all around the world, different
Raimonda Jankunaite: colours, different cultures, different religions that I've never seen before.
Raimonda Jankunaite: And also feeling like I was marginalised because I
Raimonda Jankunaite: was now an immigrant. Right. Like the minority.
Raimonda Jankunaite: And so most of my friends were from minority groups. When I started
Raimonda Jankunaite: my school, my college, I would always make friends with those
Raimonda Jankunaite: who were not, perhaps from the UK themselves, because I could
Raimonda Jankunaite: understand their struggles and challenges. And I started to
Raimonda Jankunaite: build that rebelliousness inside of me to say, look, we have
Raimonda Jankunaite: to fight for ourselves, we have to stand up for ourselves. And that social
Raimonda Jankunaite: conditioning still played a part where you should stay quiet, you should be a
Raimonda Jankunaite: good girl, you're a woman, all of those things, it still plays in your mind,
Raimonda Jankunaite: but now you're starting to see that there is something worth fighting
Raimonda Jankunaite: for. And it's not just for yourself, but for others as well. And
Raimonda Jankunaite: that's where I said, I have to
Raimonda Jankunaite: empower myself if I'm going to make a difference. And
Raimonda Jankunaite: I had no choice because I burnt my bridges with ever going down
Raimonda Jankunaite: the route of conventional career path.
Raimonda Jankunaite: So I had no choice. Yeah, I think
Joanne Lockwood: we're often put on this conveyor belt of life, aren't we, to this very early
Joanne Lockwood: age, you will do this, you will do this, you will do this. As a
Joanne Lockwood: young woman, there's a high expectation of getting
Joanne Lockwood: married, falling in love, having children, being a
Joanne Lockwood: homemaker. Um, the last 20, 30, 40,
Joanne Lockwood: even 50 years, women have now understood that their
Joanne Lockwood: role is what they want it to be. Yes, they may well wish to
Joanne Lockwood: have children, but it's not an automatic thing
Joanne Lockwood: that they have to want. And I've seen many women who embrace
Joanne Lockwood: the not having children, not being a mother,
Joanne Lockwood: not being a parent, and they've consciously abstained from that. And.
Joanne Lockwood: And that's a choice people make. Whereas previously there was this
Joanne Lockwood: high expectation you weren't good enough, you were failing as a woman and
Joanne Lockwood: owning that and empowering yourself to make the decision for your own self and your
Joanne Lockwood: own body is something that we're starting to embrace now, or even more
Joanne Lockwood: so. Yeah, yeah, of course. And there were lots
Raimonda Jankunaite: of experiences in my life where there was certain expectations
Raimonda Jankunaite: and even my own family and, you know, and my love choices.
Raimonda Jankunaite: I Remember when I was relatively young, I was dating a guy
Raimonda Jankunaite: who's a man of colour, right? And my mom said to me,
Raimonda Jankunaite: why can't you just go for a Lithuanian guy? And my conditioning from
Raimonda Jankunaite: a young age was, well, Lithuanian guys actually beat women. They
Raimonda Jankunaite: don't treat them right. That was, that's what I've seen growing up. So
Raimonda Jankunaite: naturally I was too afraid to date a Lithuanian guy. And I said to my
Raimonda Jankunaite: mom, really bluntly, I said, mom, he can be blue, green,
Raimonda Jankunaite: black, yellow, I don't care, as long as he treats me right and
Raimonda Jankunaite: loves me. I will date whoever as long as he's good
Raimonda Jankunaite: to me. So you can't tell me that a colour of
Raimonda Jankunaite: his skin is going to make a difference to anyone and to
Raimonda Jankunaite: make different choice because of it. So I was very, very clear from very young
Raimonda Jankunaite: age that I was just not going to conform.
Joanne Lockwood: You came up with that observation about Lithuanian guys? I had
Joanne Lockwood: a bit of a surprise. I was in kyiv
Joanne Lockwood: back in 2019 and I was with a group of people, we
Joanne Lockwood: were speaking at a conference and we were there and I remember walking around
Joanne Lockwood: Kyiv town centre or city centre, restaurants and bars and just
Joanne Lockwood: around the central part and I noticed that there was a.
Joanne Lockwood: Seemed to be common that men,
Joanne Lockwood: Ukrainian men just walked straight through women. There was this kind of like. And
Joanne Lockwood: I felt I had to get out of a man's way. There was
Joanne Lockwood: no accommodation. Maybe in the UK a man would have been more polite and sort
Joanne Lockwood: of stepped out the way or ladies first. I just got the impression that
Joanne Lockwood: a Ukrainian man's were just very much
Joanne Lockwood: more, I own the pavement, you have to get out of my way. And it
Joanne Lockwood: happened in a supermarket as well. They just literally walked through me and I thought,
Joanne Lockwood: wow, in one respect it was so gender affirming, but in the other
Joanne Lockwood: effect it was like a real difference in culture is that have I.
Joanne Lockwood: Have I represented that feeling accurately, do you think?
Raimonda Jankunaite: It's interesting. I've never been to Ukraine, but I think that Eastern
Raimonda Jankunaite: European men are more, in their
Raimonda Jankunaite: own self view, macho men who
Raimonda Jankunaite: try to uphold that masculinity and any
Raimonda Jankunaite: weakness seems just not really not
Raimonda Jankunaite: masculine enough. And therefore they try to exercise
Raimonda Jankunaite: violence or overpowerment of women
Raimonda Jankunaite: to assert their masculinity and their
Raimonda Jankunaite: power. Yeah, I mean, part of it is a lot of the social conditioning and
Raimonda Jankunaite: culture normalising it. You know, in the Western world it's not
Raimonda Jankunaite: so normal and a lot of times, well, it has been illegal for a long
Raimonda Jankunaite: time. Yeah, it was kind of socially accepted back in my country for
Raimonda Jankunaite: women to beat men, for men to beat women. And I, I could,
Raimonda Jankunaite: haven't seen that growing up. I just couldn't, couldn't deal
Raimonda Jankunaite: with it. And I, I decided I will never accept that in my own
Raimonda Jankunaite: relationship or I will never accept in my surroundings for that to be the case.
Joanne Lockwood: So you shouldn't. Society puts a burden on women
Joanne Lockwood: to present look, in
Joanne Lockwood: certain ways there's a certain social
Joanne Lockwood: value to a young, beautiful, attractive woman
Joanne Lockwood: and as you get older, wrinkles, grey hair, child tummy, whatever,
Joanne Lockwood: there's a certain pressure that you become less valuable. And
Joanne Lockwood: so women are striving. And again, part of this struggle with
Joanne Lockwood: empowerment is trying to fit in with these societal expectations which are
Joanne Lockwood: generally designed by the patriarchy, designed by men who want
Joanne Lockwood: to value and own women in a certain way. How can women be authentic and
Joanne Lockwood: start to create their own value for who they are without having
Joanne Lockwood: to subscribe to all these beauty standards?
Raimonda Jankunaite: It's hard. I think I've seen many, many people having
Raimonda Jankunaite: to live up to it and subscribe to it, as you say. However, I
Raimonda Jankunaite: think the first step to it is a real self
Raimonda Jankunaite: acceptance and knowing that those external layers
Raimonda Jankunaite: does not define us. And I've done the same for many years, trying
Raimonda Jankunaite: to look good and trying to, you know, you know, have the perfect body
Raimonda Jankunaite: and the beautiful hair and then at one point just
Raimonda Jankunaite: realising that's not what it's about. And actually when
Raimonda Jankunaite: I was young, I went down the modelling route and at some
Raimonda Jankunaite: point I decided that's not what I want to be known for.
Raimonda Jankunaite: I. I want to be known for my impact and my
Raimonda Jankunaite: knowledge and the way I see the world, not the way I look,
Raimonda Jankunaite: because I felt that was so shallow. Oh, you, you can. To
Joanne Lockwood: my attention. I mean, I do follow you on Facebook, I think I'm part of
Joanne Lockwood: some of your groups and see some of the updates. What struck
Joanne Lockwood: me, I think it was about three or four months ago, two or three months
Joanne Lockwood: ago, suddenly you went for being
Joanne Lockwood: long by most standards, beautiful, long
Joanne Lockwood: hair, blondish, aged on one side.
Joanne Lockwood: I think you hit it cut and then suddenly you
Joanne Lockwood: said, it's all coming off. And then next shot, there
Joanne Lockwood: you are with a grade zero, effectively you shaved it all
Joanne Lockwood: off. And you were just so striking in that
Joanne Lockwood: contrast between the old you and the new you. And I could
Joanne Lockwood: see in your eyes and the smile when you shaved your head
Joanne Lockwood: off, there's this certain ownership of self, wasn't there? You really owned
Joanne Lockwood: that look. It's making me laugh. My whole life I was
Raimonda Jankunaite: living up to the long blonde hair look. Never Changed it
Raimonda Jankunaite: until a few years ago when I shaved one side and it was another act
Raimonda Jankunaite: of rebellion and self ownership. And one day I just made a decision.
Raimonda Jankunaite: I'm no longer subscribing to this. I'm just. That
Raimonda Jankunaite: hair does not define me anymore. It has taken me so many years
Raimonda Jankunaite: and so many layers of shedding shame, shedding
Raimonda Jankunaite: fear, shedding societal expectations,
Raimonda Jankunaite: living up to those things. And even before I shaved, I had fear.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Don't get me wrong, I was afraid, what am I going to look like? What
Raimonda Jankunaite: are people? What's next? What's after you shave? Your hair is gone.
Raimonda Jankunaite: You can't just grow back overnight. I had a lot of fears.
Raimonda Jankunaite: But the minute when I took it all off and I saw myself
Raimonda Jankunaite: in the mirror, I held my head and I
Raimonda Jankunaite: cried and I was like, wow, this is
Raimonda Jankunaite: how it feels to liberate yourself of all
Raimonda Jankunaite: those things you've been carrying your entire life. Having to live up to those
Raimonda Jankunaite: expectations and finally seeing yourself in a mirror, finally
Raimonda Jankunaite: seeing yourself without a mask.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Because we put on a mask, we wear these masks of
Raimonda Jankunaite: clothing brands, hair, makeup,
Raimonda Jankunaite: whatever, other things to distract people from seeing our true
Raimonda Jankunaite: authentic selves. And it was the most
Raimonda Jankunaite: amazing experience and so empowering. It
Raimonda Jankunaite: changed so many things for me when I'd done that. The level of self
Raimonda Jankunaite: acceptance, it's just amazing. And I recommend it
Raimonda Jankunaite: to so many people in whatever shape or form
Raimonda Jankunaite: to empower yourself to that degree where you actually just
Raimonda Jankunaite: don't care what other people think and you just live your true authentic
Raimonda Jankunaite: self. Just be you. If you love yourself,
Raimonda Jankunaite: people have no choice but to accept you. Do you find that you get different
Joanne Lockwood: reactions from people now? I mean, I'm gonna say different,
Joanne Lockwood: I guess, specifically around how men treat you
Joanne Lockwood: than before. Do you get
Joanne Lockwood: the impression men feel more threatened by you with the shorter hair,
Joanne Lockwood: more nervous about you, more apprehensive about you, take you more seriously?
Raimonda Jankunaite: Don't know exactly. But I recall
Raimonda Jankunaite: walking in a supermarket in London a couple months ago
Raimonda Jankunaite: and I'm noticing guys don't pay attention to
Raimonda Jankunaite: me the way they used to. I realised that so much attention
Raimonda Jankunaite: used to come to me because of being
Raimonda Jankunaite: that. Having that perception of a kind of woman that you are,
Raimonda Jankunaite: right? The long blonde hair, the curves or whatever, you
Raimonda Jankunaite: know, I used to get a lot of attention and now I realise,
Raimonda Jankunaite: okay, I'm not getting that attention and I don't mind either way because
Raimonda Jankunaite: I have a partner, I have family. So for me it's neither here or there,
Raimonda Jankunaite: but it's just an interesting observation. And those who Know me, but perhaps
Raimonda Jankunaite: don't know me personally that much, afraid to
Raimonda Jankunaite: ask, why the change? Because they think maybe I. I'm sick,
Raimonda Jankunaite: maybe I have cancer. And sometimes when I see them for the first time and
Raimonda Jankunaite: I realise that they kind of looking but trying not to ask anything, I say,
Raimonda Jankunaite: don't worry, this is just a style change. You can ask me and make a
Raimonda Jankunaite: little joke. And those who are in my community, especially
Raimonda Jankunaite: my peers, have really
Raimonda Jankunaite: supported this change, like, really supported this change. They love the
Raimonda Jankunaite: change and they said, this is. This really, really suits you. I think it's very
Joanne Lockwood: iconic. I think it suits you. And obviously different styles suit different people,
Joanne Lockwood: but you kind of own it. You can see the empowerment there. I think from
Joanne Lockwood: your authenticity point of view, it really is authentic with who you are and
Joanne Lockwood: redefining your place in the world. I think it's very iconic. Thank
Raimonda Jankunaite: you. I appreciate it. Because I've got
Joanne Lockwood: other female friends who have felt the pressure
Joanne Lockwood: to shorten their hair because in the workplace or
Joanne Lockwood: in leadership positions, they felt they weren't being taken seriously having
Joanne Lockwood: long hair and they had to get a bob because this is almost this perception
Joanne Lockwood: that long hair equals young, short hair equals older and more
Joanne Lockwood: mature. So this desire to be perceived
Joanne Lockwood: as more mature, more capable
Joanne Lockwood: and I think your style, if you don't mind me saying, confuses men
Joanne Lockwood: because what they're seeing is an empowered woman who's prepared to
Joanne Lockwood: buck their needs and treat it as yourselves.
Joanne Lockwood: I guess men are more apprehensive around you
Joanne Lockwood: and, yeah, scared. Maybe. You're scared. Yeah. Well, you know, I want
Raimonda Jankunaite: to just mention that my own partner. So this
Raimonda Jankunaite: thought has come to my mind about two years ago and I said it to
Raimonda Jankunaite: my partner, I said, I just want to shave it off. Honestly, dealing with so
Raimonda Jankunaite: many challenges around my hair that I'm just tired. And at the
Raimonda Jankunaite: time, I didn't go through with it. But he said to me, do it. Let's
Raimonda Jankunaite: do it. Go for it. You're going to look amazing. And so when this
Raimonda Jankunaite: next time I came around to him, I said, I think I'm really ready to
Raimonda Jankunaite: do this now. I'm just so fed up. The hairdressers here in
Raimonda Jankunaite: Spain causing me so much just, just. It was more headache
Raimonda Jankunaite: than it was worth. And his wavering support and
Raimonda Jankunaite: confidence and real love showed me that,
Raimonda Jankunaite: you know, it doesn't matter what I look like, he loves me for who I
Raimonda Jankunaite: am. And as that was enough of confirmation for
Raimonda Jankunaite: me to say, I don't mind shaming it off,
Raimonda Jankunaite: he's gonna still love Me. Regardless. Just for anyone who's listening, who hasn't got the
Joanne Lockwood: video of this podcast, I should explain that you are
Joanne Lockwood: rocking a kind of a grade one, grade two at the moment with
Joanne Lockwood: grade one, grade zero sides. So you've maintained the short hair
Joanne Lockwood: even after several months now? Yeah, Yeah, I love
Raimonda Jankunaite: it. It's so easy to maintain. Sometimes I look at my older
Raimonda Jankunaite: pictures, you know, the blonde hair, different looks and the curly
Raimonda Jankunaite: hair. I mean, it looked nice and sometimes I miss it,
Raimonda Jankunaite: but it's a different chapter and I have to just embrace this new
Raimonda Jankunaite: chapter, new look. At first it was really strange because I didn't
Raimonda Jankunaite: know what to wear. I didn't know what suited me. The colours no longer suit
Raimonda Jankunaite: me, the dresses no longer suit me. So I was like, okay,
Raimonda Jankunaite: we're gonna have to uplevel the entire wardrobe now.
Joanne Lockwood: What a hardship, Abe. What a hardship. I've gotta go shopping. It sounds like a
Joanne Lockwood: real nightmare. I mean, if I was a prolific shopper, that would be
Raimonda Jankunaite: absolute pleasure, but I'm not quite. Well, you can always
Joanne Lockwood: embrace that. That new side of you. Yeah. Style queen.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Yeah. Yeah. But I am enjoying exploring
Raimonda Jankunaite: who I am. In this new chapter. I. I was consciously aware of
Joanne Lockwood: my own hair. So for much of my life, pre transition, in my later
Joanne Lockwood: years, I was, for the sake of ease and convenience, I was
Joanne Lockwood: rocking a grade one, grade two. You just get so used to just jumping in
Joanne Lockwood: the shower, quick, quick wash, quick rub with the towel, it's all dry and off
Joanne Lockwood: you go. After my transition, hair meant something to me. So I
Joanne Lockwood: started with wigs. Had a hair weave at one point,
Joanne Lockwood: and then toppers. And then eventually I went for a hair transplant. I remember
Joanne Lockwood: going into the hair transplant clinic and with the
Joanne Lockwood: doctor, the surgeon, and he said, we're going to have to shave your head.
Joanne Lockwood: And I was like, completely unprepared for this because I thought they would just work
Joanne Lockwood: around what I had. So I'd grown my hair to roughly the length it is
Joanne Lockwood: now to down to my shoulders. And so I was just imagining
Joanne Lockwood: to pick bits out and just. And make it fine. He
Joanne Lockwood: said, no, I've to shave it off. And I said, okay. And I needed 10
Joanne Lockwood: minutes to compose myself. I was crying my eyes out. I was kind of going,
Joanne Lockwood: all of this because I'd known it had taken me two or three years to
Joanne Lockwood: get to the length it was and it was going to go. I thought, wow.
Joanne Lockwood: So I cried. They shaved it off. And then I thought, okay, you're not allowed
Joanne Lockwood: to wear a wig or a hat or cover your Head for at least
Joanne Lockwood: a fortnight and you shouldn't wear a wig for at least, I think it was
Joanne Lockwood: a month or two months. I thought, wow, what am I going to do? I
Joanne Lockwood: can't live. I've got to go out, I gotta, gotta do something. So I thought,
Joanne Lockwood: okay, let me just open this. I. I rocked the scabby
Joanne Lockwood: bald head look and I got some stuff, some big hoop
Joanne Lockwood: earrings, some big bright lipstick. I just went for the soul singer. I was doing
Joanne Lockwood: Zoom calls. I remember going to London and running a training course on site for
Joanne Lockwood: somebody and I was still post surgery. Traumatic
Joanne Lockwood: scabbed all over my head. I just walked in and just got on with my
Joanne Lockwood: life. I think once I realised that all of those
Joanne Lockwood: stories you tell yourself are just stories and you can
Joanne Lockwood: overcome them. I thought, I remember thinking, because after the second,
Joanne Lockwood: I had a second hair transplant, it was about 18 months after that, so I
Joanne Lockwood: shaved it all off again, everything. I grew and I had to carry on again.
Joanne Lockwood: But then the next time I was more empowered and I. I've got friends who
Joanne Lockwood: had air transplants as well and they got back to the wig as soon as
Joanne Lockwood: they could. And I thought, well, at some point when they're happy with
Joanne Lockwood: themselves, they've got to transition again to take
Joanne Lockwood: the wig off and declare, this is the real me. And I thought,
Joanne Lockwood: with me, every day is a better day. Every millimetre
Joanne Lockwood: it grows is a better day than it was yesterday. So I was able to
Joanne Lockwood: grow into my style rather than have another step change another
Joanne Lockwood: point. So, yeah, I was quite pleased with that, owning it. But
Joanne Lockwood: yeah, it's so key to your identity and how you see yourself and how others
Joanne Lockwood: perceive you. Such a massive. It plays a big part on your
Raimonda Jankunaite: confidence, on your subconscious. Look, when I shaved, at first
Raimonda Jankunaite: I was elevated. I was absolutely amazed by the support.
Raimonda Jankunaite: I was so confident, rocking it. And then few
Raimonda Jankunaite: weeks passed and I started to feel the effects of it,
Raimonda Jankunaite: started to judge myself, started to see myself differently. Oh, this doesn't fit me
Raimonda Jankunaite: anymore. Do I look beautiful still? I started to
Raimonda Jankunaite: question it and started to feel like I'm showing up less,
Raimonda Jankunaite: not posting as confidently as I was not doing camera.
Raimonda Jankunaite: And then I had to remind myself a little bit that, hey,
Raimonda Jankunaite: this is not going to define you. And you made this choice. And before
Raimonda Jankunaite: one of our major events recently, I called my boyfriend and said, I, I don't
Raimonda Jankunaite: know what to wear. Nothing fits me no more. He said, why are you trying
Raimonda Jankunaite: to still fit in your old clothes? You changed, you
Raimonda Jankunaite: elevated. So everything needs to elevate Embrace it and go for
Raimonda Jankunaite: it. So this advice was like, yeah, why am I still trying to fit
Raimonda Jankunaite: into my old self? Just move on. And what you're wearing now is
Joanne Lockwood: it's like a limey yellowy colour blouse. Very
Joanne Lockwood: striking, very contrasting. Yes. It's a beautiful dress and a beautiful
Joanne Lockwood: necklace around your neck as well. So, yeah, kind of owning that look. Whereas if
Joanne Lockwood: with the long hair, you would have covered half of that up, wouldn't
Joanne Lockwood: you? You'd have covered your V neck up, your necklace up. It will all be
Joanne Lockwood: around you. You say hiding behind the hair as a comfort blanket. Yeah,
Raimonda Jankunaite: that's a huge mask and that's what I realised. It was a big mask.
Raimonda Jankunaite: And so many people hide behind those various things.
Joanne Lockwood: So you work with women all around the world. You're a global business.
Joanne Lockwood: There's a lot of changes going on in the last
Joanne Lockwood: month, I guess. Six weeks from over America, attitudes
Joanne Lockwood: in the uk, rise of the far right in
Joanne Lockwood: France, Germany, other countries as well. Unsettlement in the east of
Joanne Lockwood: Europe around the worry about Russian threats. How
Joanne Lockwood: are women experiencing this on a global basis? Is there. Is
Joanne Lockwood: there worry out there? Certainly there's a lot of worry and
Raimonda Jankunaite: I think women feel things more global
Raimonda Jankunaite: compassionately. Personally, it affects me personally,
Raimonda Jankunaite: it seems like, well, it's all going on in the States and it shouldn't really
Raimonda Jankunaite: bother us. I feel that is a personal threat on women,
Raimonda Jankunaite: on minority groups, on LGBTQ communities,
Raimonda Jankunaite: on minorities, on different continents of the world
Raimonda Jankunaite: where the war is happening on children, the injustice and
Raimonda Jankunaite: the far. The few people who are in power,
Raimonda Jankunaite: the perception that they can do just about anything
Raimonda Jankunaite: right and they own us. It's really heartbreaking. And
Raimonda Jankunaite: at first it was very concerning and it is
Raimonda Jankunaite: still very concerning because I think we're going through massive shift and
Raimonda Jankunaite: change in the world and I don't know where this is leading us to yet,
Raimonda Jankunaite: but something I realised that up until now, the
Raimonda Jankunaite: enemy was hiding in the plain sight.
Raimonda Jankunaite: It wasn't as obvious who our enemy was. Now they
Raimonda Jankunaite: come out of the woodworks and we know exactly what we're up against.
Raimonda Jankunaite: And we wouldn't be so
Raimonda Jankunaite: driven to stand up and advocate and fight
Raimonda Jankunaite: for our rights than we are more now. Because when your
Raimonda Jankunaite: back is against the wall, you will do something to fight
Raimonda Jankunaite: back. And up until now, our backs were never down, back
Raimonda Jankunaite: to the wall, as hard as it is now. So now we know
Raimonda Jankunaite: where we need to take action. Now we clearly there is no in between for
Raimonda Jankunaite: people. Now. You either that way or the other way, you either support
Raimonda Jankunaite: this New far right movement or you completely against. There's no middle, there is no
Raimonda Jankunaite: grey zone. And for me it's really simple to say these are the people
Raimonda Jankunaite: I'm with and these are the people I am not. It makes it a little
Raimonda Jankunaite: bit clearer in the world, very concerning what's going on, but
Raimonda Jankunaite: it's certainly time for all of us to start having a voice
Raimonda Jankunaite: and start fighting for it. Right? I think you're right. I think before
Joanne Lockwood: the way hard right far right politics
Joanne Lockwood: worked was they were picking people off in small subgroups and sort of
Joanne Lockwood: talking to you, talking to you, talking to you. It didn't matter if the people
Joanne Lockwood: talk to each other, as long as you were resonating with what caused me pain,
Joanne Lockwood: I could ignore everything else. And now I think, as you say, because it's not
Joanne Lockwood: hiding in plain sight, all those different areas of
Joanne Lockwood: attack are coming out onto the table and they're all looking
Joanne Lockwood: unpalatable to many. Even people that have been previously
Joanne Lockwood: empowered to vote in favour of these views are now
Joanne Lockwood: realising the impact of it's not just
Joanne Lockwood: what gives me pain, there's the things that give me pleasure that are being curtailed.
Joanne Lockwood: Women's reproductive rights, needing more masculine energy
Joanne Lockwood: in business, removing women from positions of power because they seem to
Joanne Lockwood: be less capable or weaker of the dei higher. All
Joanne Lockwood: these kind of things. We're rolling back good business practise, not just
Joanne Lockwood: dei, this is sound business practise and marginalising
Joanne Lockwood: women still further. Just women. I mean, the whole. The decades of
Raimonda Jankunaite: work that has gone in into
Raimonda Jankunaite: diversity and inclusion, into policies, into the work
Raimonda Jankunaite: that has been done to build bridges, to build
Raimonda Jankunaite: inclusivity, to give rights to minorities
Raimonda Jankunaite: overnight being eradicated. How it's affecting
Raimonda Jankunaite: us not just now, but how it's going to affect in
Raimonda Jankunaite: generations to come, decades. So we are rolling
Raimonda Jankunaite: way back and I look at, let's say the
Raimonda Jankunaite: women in Afghanistan whose rights in the
Raimonda Jankunaite: last few years have been taken away to the point where they have
Raimonda Jankunaite: to cover the entire faces with burkers.
Raimonda Jankunaite: They can't speak, they can't use public transport, they can't use.
Raimonda Jankunaite: They can't walk out the house easily, they can't go to education, they can't go
Raimonda Jankunaite: to hospitals without men's assistance.
Raimonda Jankunaite: I mean, that was not the case just few years ago. What
Raimonda Jankunaite: makes us think that we're safe in the rest of the world if
Raimonda Jankunaite: these kind of things are being rolled back? So
Raimonda Jankunaite: if we don't do something now, be very afraid
Raimonda Jankunaite: that in a few years our society is going to look very different and the
Raimonda Jankunaite: Next generations observing all of this will say this is normal. So
Raimonda Jankunaite: we're rolling back decades, not just few years of work that's
Raimonda Jankunaite: gone into it. Yes, it's almost like the dystopian Margaret Atwood
Joanne Lockwood: handmaid's tale come into fruition in plain
Joanne Lockwood: sight. I think that's the shock. You know, I think during the last
Joanne Lockwood: term of the current president we saw
Joanne Lockwood: signs of this dystopian future. I think what's happened this time
Joanne Lockwood: is it's been kind of where we picked where we finished off
Joanne Lockwood: last time. It's now been accelerating and you know, LGBT
Joanne Lockwood: rights, Q rights, rolling back the DEI programmes,
Joanne Lockwood: replacing people in the federal government in positions
Joanne Lockwood: of power in the executive branches. There's nobody left to say
Joanne Lockwood: no. And every time you do say no, then you're being strong, armed
Joanne Lockwood: out. And there's an immense amount of pressure on business leaders,
Joanne Lockwood: the billionaires, the Zuckerbergs, the Bezos
Joanne Lockwood: and the people who run these big companies to start winding it back. I saw
Joanne Lockwood: the other day that Zuckerberg and his wife, I
Joanne Lockwood: can't remember her name, Chan. So they have the Czi A foundation
Joanne Lockwood: and they've removed all of the dei. They've even
Joanne Lockwood: defunded some of the causes they were supporting that are pro dei.
Joanne Lockwood: Facebook have even taken wheelchairs out of
Joanne Lockwood: the avatar. They'll build your own avatar. Any pride
Joanne Lockwood: outfits have all been taken out so you can't even express yourself
Joanne Lockwood: using a Facebook avatar anymore to match your full identity. So these things
Joanne Lockwood: are. Took years to build and now people are caving in for
Joanne Lockwood: fear of. Fear of their own marginization, I guess.
Joanne Lockwood: Survival. Yeah. If there was nothing to fear,
Raimonda Jankunaite: this would not be happening. Okay. They
Raimonda Jankunaite: are too afraid of the power of these so called
Raimonda Jankunaite: minorities because we are far from minorities. The
Raimonda Jankunaite: exercise of their attempt of their power,
Raimonda Jankunaite: honestly, I see it as a small man syndrome.
Raimonda Jankunaite: I've seen it in my own country with men trying to exercise
Raimonda Jankunaite: their power when they just simply don't feel empowered. And
Raimonda Jankunaite: what's a biggest shame really is about that we're
Raimonda Jankunaite: losing the ability. This huge divide
Raimonda Jankunaite: is creating such a chaos that we're losing our ability.
Joanne Lockwood: To. See and appreciate each other's differences and how
Raimonda Jankunaite: much it is needed. You can't take away the fact
Raimonda Jankunaite: that we have so many continents around the world that in each
Raimonda Jankunaite: continent, each country there are different cultures, different colours, different.
Raimonda Jankunaite: They're not minorities. I'm sorry? They are not minorities. Look at
Raimonda Jankunaite: Africa, look at China, look at other parts of the world. These are not
Raimonda Jankunaite: minorities. This is the rest of the world. So if you are living in
Raimonda Jankunaite: this cave and you think you're the best and you're the
Raimonda Jankunaite: most powerful, you may be acting like that, but I'm sorry, there is a lot
Raimonda Jankunaite: more billion people in the world that see things differently. And
Raimonda Jankunaite: as a leader myself and I have a community of more than
Raimonda Jankunaite: 600,000 people embrace
Raimonda Jankunaite: diversity, inclusion, that I embrace
Raimonda Jankunaite: different voices because if we are only going to hear one
Raimonda Jankunaite: type of voice, one type of perception, we're going to start believing it's
Raimonda Jankunaite: true. And you can't be a right leader
Raimonda Jankunaite: if you are going to be the only smartest person in the room. You
Raimonda Jankunaite: can't. And you're only going to see things one way
Raimonda Jankunaite: because like I said, there are so many people in the world. And
Raimonda Jankunaite: if you think you, you're, you're the bee's
Raimonda Jankunaite: knees and you're everything in this world, unfortunately you are
Raimonda Jankunaite: living in a very delusional world.
Joanne Lockwood: So it's that part of the problem where. And again we're trying to create too
Joanne Lockwood: many stereotypes. The the able bodied white man
Joanne Lockwood: was perceiving that they were marginalised themselves. You know, we see the rise of
Joanne Lockwood: figures like Andrew Tate with toxic masculinity and the incel
Joanne Lockwood: movement gaining traction against with young men in the belief
Joanne Lockwood: that they're the ones that are getting no advantages now. You know,
Joanne Lockwood: it's all for people of colour, for queer people. If you're straight and white,
Joanne Lockwood: then there's nothing for you anymore. Yeah, just feeling
Raimonda Jankunaite: threatened. They're feeling threatened, yeah, because they don't have a club
Joanne Lockwood: to stand up for them. And maybe that's sdei being too
Joanne Lockwood: exclusionary on and exclusion the majority. You know, we need men in the conversation
Joanne Lockwood: to create change and we all know, we all know that men often don't want
Joanne Lockwood: to join into those conversations because they, they don't understand
Joanne Lockwood: or they don't have the tools or capability to be great
Joanne Lockwood: allies or to challenge their own behaviour. Sometimes
Raimonda Jankunaite: their behaviour not being challenged as well.
Raimonda Jankunaite: This is where the open conversation leads to change.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Inclusion of different voices, perspectives,
Raimonda Jankunaite: experiences. If you don't understand what one is experiencing, you're
Raimonda Jankunaite: not willing to listen how you're going to know. So you're living
Raimonda Jankunaite: in your silo of your own experience and you're expecting or you thinking everything
Raimonda Jankunaite: is great until you start to experience.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Even Elon Musk, his daughter, his son,
Raimonda Jankunaite: sorry, came out as trans. Like she wanted a change
Raimonda Jankunaite: and he was not accepting it. That's on his own doorstep. So
Raimonda Jankunaite: not only you're not willing to accept that Society is
Raimonda Jankunaite: changing and there are people with different experiences,
Raimonda Jankunaite: but you're always also disowning your own daughter.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Fear of a lack of understanding and fear. It's more
Joanne Lockwood: than just disowning his daughter. He's now an
Joanne Lockwood: active part of a regime that is trying to
Joanne Lockwood: exterminate and eradicate anybody
Joanne Lockwood: who's not straight and cis. And you know, we
Joanne Lockwood: may be talking about trans, non binary people, queer people today,
Joanne Lockwood: but there's certainly no exceptions for people of any part of
Joanne Lockwood: the sexual spectrum or gender spectrum. And we'll see, I'm sure
Joanne Lockwood: we'll see further eradication of gay rights, lesbian rights,
Joanne Lockwood: bi rights in the future. And this is just the first step. And that's certainly
Joanne Lockwood: what we see the far right in the UK and other places.
Joanne Lockwood: It's us today, you tomorrow, that's the worrying thing. It just
Joanne Lockwood: escalate the purging of. I'm not going
Joanne Lockwood: to say it's going to be euthanasia or ethnic cleansing or anything like this, but
Joanne Lockwood: there is a purging of people who aren't fitting
Joanne Lockwood: into the stereotype. Truth is you're not going to
Raimonda Jankunaite: eradicate them. You will disempower them and you'll
Raimonda Jankunaite: think they non existent, but you will not
Raimonda Jankunaite: eradicate people. And there is still power in the masses. And
Raimonda Jankunaite: our choices are, we still have, we hold a lot of financial
Raimonda Jankunaite: power in our choices and our voices and
Raimonda Jankunaite: as long as we don't buy into the messaging of
Raimonda Jankunaite: disempowerment. Because yes, you may not be able to
Raimonda Jankunaite: change anything, but that does not need to change your life completely.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Your choices, what you stand for in, in how you treat others and
Raimonda Jankunaite: how you respect others in the way you advocate for others, like
Raimonda Jankunaite: in your workplace. Don't allow that narrative to be happening, don't
Raimonda Jankunaite: allow the behaviour be the one that caused out
Raimonda Jankunaite: in your society, in your community. Because change
Raimonda Jankunaite: starts at macro level, not just at the massive level when
Raimonda Jankunaite: the leaders fail us. We need to start looking at the difference that we
Raimonda Jankunaite: can make at a macro level. That's where we need to start putting
Raimonda Jankunaite: our efforts in. How are you seeing the impact
Joanne Lockwood: of what's going on in America right now,
Joanne Lockwood: on Europe? I think I always perceive that
Joanne Lockwood: the UK is very much more culturally tied
Joanne Lockwood: to America, economically, politically and kind of
Joanne Lockwood: emotionally. That doesn't necessarily translate into
Joanne Lockwood: a French, a Spanish, a German, a Swiss or other
Joanne Lockwood: Nordic views. Does it translate the same? I'm a
Joanne Lockwood: great believer as a UK person, we should be looking right, not looking left
Joanne Lockwood: all the time. We should be looking to our closest Partners, obviously Brexit messed a
Joanne Lockwood: lot of that up, but we should be looking to our European partners where we're
Joanne Lockwood: more culturally similar. I believe in many respects,
Joanne Lockwood: I think. They just need to have more backbone, simply. Yeah. You know,
Raimonda Jankunaite: have the strength to stand up for something, not.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Listen, the reason why I never went down the corporate route,
Raimonda Jankunaite: because I'm not going to come to anyone and
Raimonda Jankunaite: therefore I believe that hold your own, have your own
Raimonda Jankunaite: culture, have your own beliefs, have, you know, like, like France, look how
Raimonda Jankunaite: strong they are. You try something with French people, they'll come and put their
Raimonda Jankunaite: tractors in front of your government and pour crap
Raimonda Jankunaite: all over the floor. Yes. Yeah, they're not
Raimonda Jankunaite: having it, but slowly, slowly. I think people in the UK have
Raimonda Jankunaite: been conditioned and just, you know, when you're trying
Raimonda Jankunaite: to fry, boil a frog, English people have been
Raimonda Jankunaite: unfortunately boiled slowly to now accept whatever the
Raimonda Jankunaite: government is giving them. And it's a shame because the government is
Raimonda Jankunaite: not really as strong backbone as I think they could be right now.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I think if you go back to the 1970s, there was the,
Joanne Lockwood: the miners strike, there was the Thatcher government and the, the political
Joanne Lockwood: will at that time was to break the back and the morale of the,
Joanne Lockwood: of the worker. And I think they quite effectively did that. So the same way,
Joanne Lockwood: as you mentioned, France, as you say, they'll barricade, they'll. They'll put sheep everywhere and
Joanne Lockwood: make a mess everything, close everything down. And that's kind of culturally the way they
Joanne Lockwood: do things in this country. They're more like to send the riot police in and
Joanne Lockwood: arrest people, change the laws, ban it, which
Joanne Lockwood: we've seen. Some of the anti protest laws that have come out have been to
Joanne Lockwood: prevent that kind of. The French behaviour for whatever way of describing it.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Culturally, we don't want to make a fuss, do we? We want to have
Joanne Lockwood: a cup of tea and sit down and be very nice about things and play
Joanne Lockwood: cricket, which I think we're evolving away from
Joanne Lockwood: that. And I think the more we see the echoes of what happens
Joanne Lockwood: if we don't speak up around the world, then we're going, hang on a
Joanne Lockwood: minute, we don't want to go back. And I'm not seeing, apart from the media,
Joanne Lockwood: which is. Right, right. Biassed. I'm not saying much,
Joanne Lockwood: much momentum to go back to the right again. Well, you never know.
Joanne Lockwood: You never know. Yeah, the uproar is not as strong and
Raimonda Jankunaite: I think until something is completely on your doorstep and
Raimonda Jankunaite: affecting you so much that it's causing you pain, people will not take action.
Raimonda Jankunaite: And because it's not happening on their doorstep, they just simply ignore it.
Raimonda Jankunaite: They can get on with their daily lives and that's fine.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Personally, it doesn't sit right with me. And every single day I wake
Raimonda Jankunaite: up and think, how can I make a difference in a story world? Might not
Raimonda Jankunaite: be able to change everything that's happening, but it starts with
Raimonda Jankunaite: us. It starts with us having a voice, putting our voice, advocating for
Raimonda Jankunaite: ourselves, advocating for others, knowing you're not the only one in this
Raimonda Jankunaite: world and you need to have a voice and be an ally for those who
Raimonda Jankunaite: perhaps don't have a voice. Yeah, no,
Joanne Lockwood: for sure. I completely. That's the song I'm singing as well. Yeah. And I,
Joanne Lockwood: I like many, get frustrated. We can't change the world. But we're both speakers,
Joanne Lockwood: we're both able to speak up. And part of our reason to speak is to
Joanne Lockwood: have that voice to speak out and
Joanne Lockwood: change as many people as we can around us.
Joanne Lockwood: And hopefully those people will change people around them as well. I think we can
Joanne Lockwood: start by changing ourselves, influencing others and creating a
Joanne Lockwood: momentum richer. If we abdicate responsibility, then who's going to
Joanne Lockwood: do it? We can't. Unfortunately,
Raimonda Jankunaite: the last few years has showed us that we can't trust leadership
Raimonda Jankunaite: to have our backs and therefore we have to have our own backs.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I've gone into reflective mode now
Joanne Lockwood: thinking about what you're saying. Yeah. Because it is. And you took, you gave, you
Joanne Lockwood: gave some thoughts there. But you speak to your large community of global
Joanne Lockwood: menu women. How can each one of them step up and
Joanne Lockwood: get in, get involved in it? How can people empower themselves
Joanne Lockwood: for social justice, for social change, or even pure resistance
Joanne Lockwood: and saying no, what are things that people can do? I think
Raimonda Jankunaite: being part of communities that are like minded is this first step
Raimonda Jankunaite: because a lot of spaces are no longer safe
Raimonda Jankunaite: spaces and finding spaces where we
Raimonda Jankunaite: can have those conversations, where we can create movements.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Taking your own responsibility for your part in this world and
Raimonda Jankunaite: knowing that you doing nothing or just coming off
Raimonda Jankunaite: social media isn't going to solve the problem. So many people see I'm just
Raimonda Jankunaite: coming off social media. That's not solving the problem. It might be giving you peace
Raimonda Jankunaite: of mind, but that action is going to come and bite you
Raimonda Jankunaite: in the ass in a few years time when you're starting to see all your
Raimonda Jankunaite: rights being rolled back. So it's not a time to stay quiet and just
Raimonda Jankunaite: do nothing. See what you can do within your community.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Events, host podcasts, start those conversations,
Raimonda Jankunaite: become more vocal, be more empowered to speak
Raimonda Jankunaite: up. We're still very, very disempowered to speak our truth.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Too afraid of judgement, too afraid to stick out,
Raimonda Jankunaite: let's stick out. Let's be that sore thumb, right,
Raimonda Jankunaite: that is going to keep pointing the finger at what is wrong
Raimonda Jankunaite: in this society right now. So maybe those who don't actually see it
Raimonda Jankunaite: can start to realise that we are those frogs that are being boiled
Raimonda Jankunaite: in the water right now, slowly and not realising it. It's time to take action.
Raimonda Jankunaite: It's time to get angry. It's time to get vocal.
Raimonda Jankunaite: We can't sit here and continue accepting this as our new
Raimonda Jankunaite: reality. So the future
Raimonda Jankunaite: generations will look back on us and say, what did
Raimonda Jankunaite: you do when you had the choice to do something? If your
Raimonda Jankunaite: answer will be, I sat back and watched it all unfold, it's not going to
Raimonda Jankunaite: be good enough. Yeah, that's well said. I completely resonate with that.
Joanne Lockwood: I mean, I. I started saying recently that my existence is
Joanne Lockwood: resistance. And by my very existence, I
Joanne Lockwood: challenge people's definition of what should or shouldn't be. So if
Joanne Lockwood: I. If I remove myself from the spaces that they're making uncomfortable
Joanne Lockwood: for me, I make it more comfortable for them.
Joanne Lockwood: So by being that grain of salt in the
Joanne Lockwood: mollusk, let's make some pearls. Let's be annoying, let's. Let's
Joanne Lockwood: rive up the people the wrong way. Because if I shut down and go away,
Joanne Lockwood: they've won and I'm more empowered. And I've never used the word. I don't
Joanne Lockwood: identify as a word activist. I don't want to be an activist. But maybe
Joanne Lockwood: activism is not settling for the status quo. Maybe it's speaking
Joanne Lockwood: up, maybe it's being that resistance. Because if I don't, then who will? If not
Joanne Lockwood: me, then who? By having a voice. If I. My voice, if my
Joanne Lockwood: voice isn't in the conversation, whose will be? Because the conversation will still happen. If
Joanne Lockwood: we're not there, people will just make up their own stories.
Joanne Lockwood: So you need to have the voice of opposition, the voice
Joanne Lockwood: of difference, the voice of another perspective. And no matter how
Joanne Lockwood: challenging that is sometimes, and I do a lot of media interviews and it's.
Joanne Lockwood: They're very toxic. They're designed to attack. But if
Joanne Lockwood: I'm. If I'm not doing it, who will? Yeah, yeah,
Raimonda Jankunaite: we. We publish a lot of books and stories of women
Raimonda Jankunaite: and you not sharing your story
Raimonda Jankunaite: is you not empowering or being a voice for somebody else right
Raimonda Jankunaite: now. And we have to, because as you said, our voice is
Raimonda Jankunaite: going to be silenced. So many books are being pulled from the
Raimonda Jankunaite: Libraries because it's the attempt to silence and eradicate us.
Raimonda Jankunaite: So if you leave social media, you stop speaking, you stop showing up.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Yeah. You become non existent. Yeah. And you know, you just look back through
Joanne Lockwood: time, how women have been repressed, you know, with gaslighting,
Joanne Lockwood: domestic violence, abuse. And the story is the same.
Joanne Lockwood: Don't speak up, it'll be shameful. Don't tell your
Joanne Lockwood: friends because they'd be shame. When women finally have the courage to leave a
Joanne Lockwood: toxic relationship, people say, well, why didn't you do it sooner? Well, I
Joanne Lockwood: couldn't. I was tied up. There was financial, there was emotional pressure,
Joanne Lockwood: no one would believe me. And that's because people are being
Joanne Lockwood: silenced. And if you don't speak up and have a voice,
Joanne Lockwood: then no one will hear you. So we need to create
Joanne Lockwood: spaces where people can speak up, can be heard and we can
Joanne Lockwood: amplify, which is, I think, a lot of what your community does as well, isn't
Joanne Lockwood: it? Yeah, absolutely. We host events globally,
Raimonda Jankunaite: virtually. I publish a magazine. So my whole entire
Raimonda Jankunaite: mission is to create a platform, global platform for women to have a voice,
Raimonda Jankunaite: to be advocates to. We have Women Thrive Media, which is a publishing
Raimonda Jankunaite: company, so we publish books, solo authors, co authored
Raimonda Jankunaite: books, magazines, host events and do a lot of production
Raimonda Jankunaite: on podcasts, doing social media lives any
Raimonda Jankunaite: way, shape or form. I can help women amplify their voices and
Raimonda Jankunaite: make them heard because I have been blessed to have been built, to have
Raimonda Jankunaite: built such a big community and audience globally. I have that
Raimonda Jankunaite: responsibility to do that. And luckily my mission is,
Raimonda Jankunaite: I guess, the right mission with the right intention to
Raimonda Jankunaite: spotlight women and give them the voice. And the
Raimonda Jankunaite: empowerment piece runs deep through everything that I do,
Raimonda Jankunaite: from the way I handle our clients, our
Raimonda Jankunaite: partners, our team to the way I
Raimonda Jankunaite: run everything is all about empowerment. And it's
Raimonda Jankunaite: a byproduct if, if anybody comes into our community,
Raimonda Jankunaite: into connection with us, you experience the same thing. And
Raimonda Jankunaite: by the end you can't help but feel empowered
Raimonda Jankunaite: and supported to share your voice, to share your message, to
Raimonda Jankunaite: have collaborations and step out there knowing that you have the support
Raimonda Jankunaite: and backing of a bigger organisation. It's bigger than me.
Raimonda Jankunaite: It's a movement and that's what we're doing. It's been a quite a
Joanne Lockwood: monumental rise. I mean, when I first, I think when we first met, it wasn't
Joanne Lockwood: necessarily the right at the beginning, but it was in the earlier days and the
Joanne Lockwood: growth has been phenomenal over the last four or five years. Yeah, it has.
Raimonda Jankunaite: It was the right time for, for the right thing in the first year, when
Raimonda Jankunaite: I started using Instagram, we grew to a hundred thousand followers and I was
Raimonda Jankunaite: just like, wow, that is just insane. And then we triple
Raimonda Jankunaite: that on Facebook. It's just been a huge growth. But
Raimonda Jankunaite: consistency in everything, in my brand, in my messaging, in
Raimonda Jankunaite: showing up, in my commitment, in the things that we do. You know,
Raimonda Jankunaite: publishing and the magazine and the summits that I do every,
Raimonda Jankunaite: every March to celebrate Women's History Month
Raimonda Jankunaite: creates momentum. I started small. I started at nothing.
Raimonda Jankunaite: I started in 2017 with zero followers. And so
Raimonda Jankunaite: my success or the rise of our community is not
Raimonda Jankunaite: some kind of magic and overnight shot. It happened
Raimonda Jankunaite: because of the dedication and the mission behind it. No, I
Joanne Lockwood: completely applaud your passion, focus and mission. So
Joanne Lockwood: it's been phenomenal to just keep in contact with you and see and see
Joanne Lockwood: what you do. I'm sure you have inspired the person
Joanne Lockwood: at the end of this set of headphones that's listening to this right now,
Joanne Lockwood: and they want to find out more. How can they get in contact with you?
Joanne Lockwood: Do you want to give some URL to your website? Well, put them in the
Joanne Lockwood: show notes, but just tell people how, then get hold of you. Yeah, I mean,
Raimonda Jankunaite: anywhere you search. Women Thrive, Women Thrive Media, Women Thrive
Raimonda Jankunaite: Magazine, Women Thrive Summit is where you will find us. Like I said,
Raimonda Jankunaite: we host an annual summit that happens every March, third week of March,
Raimonda Jankunaite: we have our books that we publish, which is called Women
Raimonda Jankunaite: Thrive, that are published on Amazon and we have fourth edition
Raimonda Jankunaite: now out. And Women Thrive magazine goes, goes out and
Raimonda Jankunaite: ships globally. So you can go to womenthrimagazine.com and any other
Raimonda Jankunaite: websites. As long as you Google Women Thrive Media, you will find us.
Joanne Lockwood: And so if you say you're on Facebook, you're on Instagram, people can find
Joanne Lockwood: you on LinkedIn. But yeah, women Thrive is the key search term.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Yeah, absolutely. You'll find a lot. And
Raimonda Jankunaite: the best part, you'll find not only a voice of mine, but voice of
Raimonda Jankunaite: other women who have risen together to
Raimonda Jankunaite: this common mission to empower, inspire others.
Raimonda Jankunaite: Their stories. It's not about me. It's about our collective
Raimonda Jankunaite: voices coming together. You've ignited a movement, I
Joanne Lockwood: think is probably the phrase, isn't it? You've
Joanne Lockwood: given people a collective power of voice. And I think that's,
Joanne Lockwood: that's what you've achieved. And I think, as you said,
Joanne Lockwood: now is a time when it's needed more than ever.
Joanne Lockwood: From Afghanistan, Ukraine, across
Joanne Lockwood: Europe, UK and now in the US across the world. And
Joanne Lockwood: there's still areas of the world where women need to be heard. You know, the
Joanne Lockwood: World Economic Forum is still talking about 200 years for
Joanne Lockwood: gender equity across the globe, 80 to 100 years
Joanne Lockwood: in Western Europe. So there's a long way to go and a long way
Joanne Lockwood: that women need to have their voices heard. So,
Joanne Lockwood: Amanda, thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming on. I've loved our
Joanne Lockwood: conversation. It's been amazing. Thank you for the opportunity.
Raimonda Jankunaite: It's been so much fun to just catch up and hopefully
Raimonda Jankunaite: inspire other people to use the power of their voice and
Raimonda Jankunaite: be part of communities and create safe spaces for
Raimonda Jankunaite: others to flourish and appreciate each other's differences.
Raimonda Jankunaite: I always say there's so much more that unites us than separates us,
Raimonda Jankunaite: and I hope that is a message that we can continue to carry and
Raimonda Jankunaite: respect and love each other. Thank you. As
Joanne Lockwood: we bring this conversation to a close, I want to express my
Joanne Lockwood: deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your
Joanne Lockwood: ear and heart to the cause of inclusion.
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Joanne Lockwood: and let's make your voice heard. Until next time, this
Joanne Lockwood: is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with
Joanne Lockwood: more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire and
Joanne Lockwood: unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world one
Joanne Lockwood: episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.