WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.320 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 2 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.200 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 3 00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:18.720 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 4 00:00:18.720 --> 00:00:22.640 inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. 5 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:27.040 Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone 6 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:30.760 not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. 7 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:35.200 Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge 8 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.760 the status quo and share stories that resonate 9 00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:42.480 deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're 10 00:00:42.480 --> 00:00:46.400 sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's 11 00:00:46.400 --> 00:00:50.360 connect, reflect and inspire action together. 12 00:00:51.080 --> 00:00:54.870 Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out 13 00:00:54.870 --> 00:00:58.670 to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 14 00:00:59.070 --> 00:01:02.590 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 15 00:01:03.470 --> 00:01:07.230 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 16 00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:10.830 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 17 00:01:14.830 --> 00:01:18.590 Today is episode 165 with the title 18 00:01:19.410 --> 00:01:22.690 Visibility, Empowerment and Authenticity. 19 00:01:23.570 --> 00:01:26.690 And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Raimonda 20 00:01:27.010 --> 00:01:30.850 Jankunaite. Raimonda is a visibility and 21 00:01:30.850 --> 00:01:34.130 empowerment mentor, international speaker, author and 22 00:01:34.690 --> 00:01:38.450 founder of Women Thrive Media, dedicated to amplifying women's voices 23 00:01:38.610 --> 00:01:42.450 on a global stage. When I asked Raymonda to describe her 24 00:01:42.450 --> 00:01:45.900 superpower, she said it is seeing the potential in others 25 00:01:46.380 --> 00:01:50.260 before they see it in themselves and empowering them to step into 26 00:01:50.260 --> 00:01:53.380 their true, authentic and apologetic, 27 00:01:53.380 --> 00:01:57.100 unapologetic selves. Hello, Raimondo, welcome to the show. 28 00:01:57.340 --> 00:02:00.940 Hi. So good to be here. I'm excited to finally be doing this 29 00:02:00.940 --> 00:02:04.780 podcast with you, Joanne. Yes, likewise. I mean, we, we 30 00:02:04.780 --> 00:02:07.820 met online. It's gotta be 31 00:02:08.460 --> 00:02:12.420 four, five, maybe even pre Covid when you're just setting up your 32 00:02:12.980 --> 00:02:16.780 online presence and what you do. I think I came on your show and you 33 00:02:16.780 --> 00:02:20.700 interviewed me and we talked about some various things and it's been dying 34 00:02:20.700 --> 00:02:24.700 to get you back on mine and it's great you connect. Thank you 35 00:02:24.700 --> 00:02:27.979 for bearing with me with your name. Yeah, I had to. I practised that, as 36 00:02:27.979 --> 00:02:31.860 you know, in the green room. I practised that several times because you're not 37 00:02:31.860 --> 00:02:35.820 from Western Europe, you're from the Eastern side of Europe. So where do you come 38 00:02:35.820 --> 00:02:38.980 from originally? Yeah, well, originally I am from 39 00:02:38.980 --> 00:02:42.940 Lithuania and I grew up, was born there and grew up there and 40 00:02:42.940 --> 00:02:46.880 I've actually spent. Spent 22 years living in the 41 00:02:46.880 --> 00:02:50.680 UK and now I live in Spain. So I've kind of travelled 42 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:54.640 around, but originally from Lithuania. Ah, 43 00:02:54.640 --> 00:02:58.360 I've been to Lithuania once and that was in the 44 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:01.960 noughties 2007, eight, something like that. I went to 45 00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:05.760 Vilnius and had a. A stag 46 00:03:05.760 --> 00:03:09.640 weekend. Yeah, they are quite in the old 47 00:03:09.640 --> 00:03:13.320 Days. Back in the old days. Yeah, it was a. 48 00:03:13.880 --> 00:03:16.880 I spent a bit of time in the old town in the cobbled area and 49 00:03:16.880 --> 00:03:19.960 the sort of the. The very typical Balkan 50 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:24.520 old, old style town. You know, I've been to Latvia and, 51 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:28.520 and Estonia as well, so very similar cultures and architecture, isn't it? 52 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:33.040 Yeah, it. It is really a stunning place and it has really grown a lot 53 00:03:33.040 --> 00:03:36.850 and changed over the last few years. I love going 54 00:03:36.850 --> 00:03:39.810 back. I have not been able to be back since COVID but 55 00:03:40.610 --> 00:03:44.290 it's a really lovely place, to be honest. Now I kind of travel 56 00:03:44.290 --> 00:03:48.170 everywhere else and love my life in Spain. I've moved here four years 57 00:03:48.170 --> 00:03:52.050 ago and it's just absolutely fantastic being here. Weather's a bit warmer, I 58 00:03:52.050 --> 00:03:55.810 guess, on the Baltics, that a bit of coast there. It can 59 00:03:55.810 --> 00:03:59.690 be a bit brutal, can't it? Yeah, absolutely. I wake up every day and I 60 00:03:59.690 --> 00:04:02.530 thank myself for making this decision to be here. 61 00:04:04.980 --> 00:04:08.740 So your, your work centres around empowering women, 62 00:04:08.900 --> 00:04:12.340 amplifying voices, and 63 00:04:12.660 --> 00:04:16.180 that authenticity sits in the heart of you because 64 00:04:16.180 --> 00:04:19.780 you're empowering yourself, ensuring you have a voice. 65 00:04:21.060 --> 00:04:24.700 So what was the trigger point? Where did that come from? You obviously haven't done 66 00:04:24.700 --> 00:04:28.500 this all your life, so where did, where. Where did that momentum come from? Yeah, 67 00:04:28.500 --> 00:04:32.220 for sure. You know, I. I do think that authenticity 68 00:04:32.220 --> 00:04:36.200 comes from truly finding yourself some reason. It's the hardest thing for 69 00:04:36.200 --> 00:04:40.200 people to do, just to be themselves. And I had very much of the same 70 00:04:40.200 --> 00:04:43.840 struggles where I was hiding, hiding of who I am or 71 00:04:44.080 --> 00:04:48.040 my true potential of who I can become. And 72 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:51.880 I started work in entrepreneurship when I was 21, so it 73 00:04:51.880 --> 00:04:55.800 has been quite a few years I've been doing this. And I started first 74 00:04:55.800 --> 00:04:59.560 with a community called Women In Business Club, which 75 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:03.240 was really amazing and it was gaining a lot of traction. And I was always 76 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:07.060 spotlighting women, I was always putting them on stages, putting them 77 00:05:07.060 --> 00:05:11.060 on podcasts, interviewing them, running summits and doing 78 00:05:11.060 --> 00:05:14.660 all this amazing work. Never really asking myself why 79 00:05:15.300 --> 00:05:19.020 this was part of what I do, part of, like, why am I so 80 00:05:19.020 --> 00:05:22.980 passionate? Until my mentor, Les Brown, asked me, 81 00:05:23.940 --> 00:05:27.060 why do you want to speak? I joined his speaking programme in 82 00:05:27.060 --> 00:05:30.950 2021 and in one of our first calls, he said, right, 83 00:05:30.950 --> 00:05:34.390 why do you want to speak? Why is this important to you? And in that 84 00:05:34.390 --> 00:05:38.190 moment, in that split second, I realised something 85 00:05:38.510 --> 00:05:42.470 and I said it. Mr. Les, I want to speak because I know what 86 00:05:42.470 --> 00:05:46.070 it's like not to have a voice. And the 87 00:05:46.070 --> 00:05:49.830 penny dropped for me where I realised, wow, that 88 00:05:49.830 --> 00:05:53.470 is truly part of my mission of why I do what I do. 89 00:05:54.190 --> 00:05:57.320 That's so true. Because if. If you're not speaking 90 00:05:58.280 --> 00:06:02.200 and being heard, then others are speaking for you 91 00:06:02.280 --> 00:06:06.280 and over the top of you or you have no place in that conversation. So 92 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:10.520 as a speaker, wherever, however, you just identify that having 93 00:06:10.520 --> 00:06:13.960 that voice is so important, isn't it? Yeah. Well, for me, it was 94 00:06:14.520 --> 00:06:18.440 more than just, I guess, not having a voice. I lost 95 00:06:18.440 --> 00:06:21.720 my voice physically and mentally 96 00:06:22.830 --> 00:06:26.830 when I faced trauma through a relationship that was a toxic 97 00:06:26.830 --> 00:06:30.790 relationship and events that unfolded during the breakup of 98 00:06:30.790 --> 00:06:34.270 that relationship. And I felt violated. I felt 99 00:06:34.270 --> 00:06:36.350 violated emotionally, spiritually, 100 00:06:38.349 --> 00:06:41.790 physically. And that brought on 101 00:06:42.430 --> 00:06:46.350 shame, guilt, fear. I started to lose my identity, 102 00:06:46.510 --> 00:06:50.490 I started to lose my confidence. And seeing myself in the 103 00:06:50.490 --> 00:06:54.490 mirror, I couldn't see who I was anymore. So the only way 104 00:06:54.490 --> 00:06:58.170 I could still function is almost putting on a mask and continue 105 00:06:58.250 --> 00:07:02.050 to function, pretend that I was okay. And I literally 106 00:07:02.050 --> 00:07:05.370 couldn't speak. For two years I couldn't speak. And I really 107 00:07:05.449 --> 00:07:08.810 struggled. I challenged myself to try and get better, 108 00:07:09.290 --> 00:07:13.090 but I didn't know that. I was struggling with depression and I was 109 00:07:13.090 --> 00:07:16.920 struggling with the symptoms from what happened 110 00:07:17.320 --> 00:07:21.160 that really tore me, tore my true self 111 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:25.000 sense of self away and my identity. And 112 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:28.960 that struggle was really what gave me the passion not 113 00:07:28.960 --> 00:07:32.520 only to build my own voice back up, but then to help others, 114 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:36.600 especially women who may have gone through these kind of challenges and traumas 115 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:40.560 in their own lives. Yeah, I think I saw some of the echoes of 116 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:44.220 that part of your life on Facebook and you were quite public 117 00:07:44.220 --> 00:07:48.100 around owning that part of your life. Did you also have a child at that 118 00:07:48.100 --> 00:07:52.100 time as well? No, it was some time later. This 119 00:07:52.100 --> 00:07:55.100 was in my mid-20s, so this was about 10 years ago. 120 00:07:57.500 --> 00:08:01.260 It was. It was hard times. It was really hard times. And it took me 121 00:08:01.260 --> 00:08:04.460 quite a while to find my voice again and 122 00:08:04.860 --> 00:08:08.460 realise who I was. Because seeing yourself in a mirror 123 00:08:10.310 --> 00:08:13.750 and you don't know who you are anymore. And I think that's what trauma does. 124 00:08:13.750 --> 00:08:16.910 And I wrote about this when in 2021, 125 00:08:17.070 --> 00:08:20.910 Mr. Les Brown asked me this question of why you want to 126 00:08:20.910 --> 00:08:24.310 speak. Like I said, the penny dropped or why I've been doing all this work. 127 00:08:24.630 --> 00:08:28.590 And then I started to own my truth. And this is where the unapologetic 128 00:08:28.590 --> 00:08:32.430 comes from, starting to own your truth and speak your 129 00:08:32.430 --> 00:08:36.350 truth. Because we are so often disempowered to 130 00:08:36.350 --> 00:08:40.150 be our true, authentic self and speak our truth. And therefore, because we are 131 00:08:40.150 --> 00:08:43.870 afraid of judgement, we have fear, shame of who we are. 132 00:08:44.590 --> 00:08:47.790 And that rips our true, authentic selves and our voice away 133 00:08:48.350 --> 00:08:52.150 from being able to speak and advocate for Ourselves. I think that's so true for 134 00:08:52.150 --> 00:08:53.630 many people around the world. 135 00:08:55.950 --> 00:08:59.910 Certainly when you have, we describe it as a marginalised characteristic or a 136 00:08:59.910 --> 00:09:03.910 minority characteristic, being voiceless is one of the 137 00:09:03.910 --> 00:09:07.820 side effects of that marginalisation not being heard. Does it, do you 138 00:09:07.820 --> 00:09:11.820 think it disproportionately affects women intersectionally than the men, if you 139 00:09:11.820 --> 00:09:15.460 like? I think women historically have been told 140 00:09:15.700 --> 00:09:19.580 to fit in, to stay quiet, to not speak up, that 141 00:09:19.580 --> 00:09:23.340 their voice don't matter. So I think there has been a lot of conditioning. Now 142 00:09:23.340 --> 00:09:27.140 something like trauma can affect or say sexual abuse 143 00:09:27.220 --> 00:09:31.220 can affect anyone. And certainly men have been affected by some 144 00:09:31.220 --> 00:09:35.180 of the same things and I think they have been torn their voices away as 145 00:09:35.180 --> 00:09:39.140 well. But certainly I think historically women have been torn 146 00:09:39.140 --> 00:09:42.100 more so than the men. To some of it come down to 147 00:09:43.620 --> 00:09:46.900 social conditioning. You said there that women traditionally 148 00:09:47.540 --> 00:09:51.540 have been, let's use the word oppressed or marginalised 149 00:09:51.860 --> 00:09:55.700 in their upbringing and generally a lower 150 00:09:55.700 --> 00:09:58.940 expectation set on girls than boys. If it's lower 151 00:09:58.940 --> 00:10:02.820 expectations, but certainly a different social conditioning 152 00:10:02.820 --> 00:10:06.760 in the way we are expected to behave, in the way we were expected 153 00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:10.800 to show up. Right. There's certain characteristics of boys, when they 154 00:10:10.800 --> 00:10:14.760 show up, it shows leadership. If women show up in the same way, 155 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:18.480 they seem bossy. Right. So the labels and the 156 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:21.320 perception and biases that are built around 157 00:10:22.520 --> 00:10:26.440 how unequally women and men are treated from 158 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:29.960 playgrounds to schools to their workplaces 159 00:10:30.280 --> 00:10:34.240 and societies, it's undeniable and therefore we have 160 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:37.760 to break those biases and start a different 161 00:10:37.760 --> 00:10:40.720 narrative. Do you think you were influenced by. 162 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:45.360 Undoubtedly you were influenced, but how much were you influenced by the culture 163 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.480 of where you were born in Lithuania 164 00:10:49.920 --> 00:10:53.200 at that time? And I don't want to give your age away. 165 00:10:53.760 --> 00:10:57.360 It was a different world in those parts of the world and 166 00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:01.400 maybe still living in the echoes of the previous Soviet 167 00:11:01.400 --> 00:11:05.200 Union and the countries are still emerging and finding their own identity themselves. 168 00:11:06.410 --> 00:11:10.010 How did that influence being a young woman in 169 00:11:10.010 --> 00:11:13.890 Lithuania at the time? I think my growing 170 00:11:13.890 --> 00:11:17.730 up was just at the cusp of that turn of a 171 00:11:17.730 --> 00:11:21.530 century of Lithuania becoming independent country. I was 172 00:11:21.530 --> 00:11:25.250 brought up in a very women led family, if you like, and 173 00:11:25.250 --> 00:11:28.810 very strong women. So from the very beginning I 174 00:11:28.810 --> 00:11:32.810 observed women being strong and to some extent fearless, 175 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:37.160 yet at the same time suppressed. Suppressed by 176 00:11:37.160 --> 00:11:40.760 domestic violence, by expectation that men 177 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:44.880 have the authority, they are in control, they 178 00:11:44.880 --> 00:11:48.680 manage the funds of the house. So women, even though, 179 00:11:48.760 --> 00:11:52.560 let's say in my own household, this was not always the truth because my 180 00:11:52.560 --> 00:11:56.280 mom had contributed a lot to the business 181 00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:59.960 of our family, yet my dad was Always in control of the money. 182 00:12:00.640 --> 00:12:04.160 Right. So some of these things, of course, starts to shape your 183 00:12:04.160 --> 00:12:08.120 perception from an early childhood. But 184 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:11.920 travelling to the UK and when I came to the UK, I was 13 years 185 00:12:11.920 --> 00:12:15.760 old, I didn't speak English, I couldn't start education there because at first I was 186 00:12:15.760 --> 00:12:19.440 an immigrant. But what I got thrown into is this melting pot 187 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:23.320 of diverse people, people from all around the world, different 188 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:26.800 colours, different cultures, different religions that I've never seen before. 189 00:12:27.920 --> 00:12:31.800 And also feeling like I was marginalised because I 190 00:12:31.800 --> 00:12:35.280 was now an immigrant. Right. Like the minority. 191 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:40.160 And so most of my friends were from minority groups. When I started 192 00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:43.760 my school, my college, I would always make friends with those 193 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:47.800 who were not, perhaps from the UK themselves, because I could 194 00:12:47.800 --> 00:12:51.600 understand their struggles and challenges. And I started to 195 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:55.580 build that rebelliousness inside of me to say, look, we have 196 00:12:55.580 --> 00:12:59.300 to fight for ourselves, we have to stand up for ourselves. And that social 197 00:12:59.300 --> 00:13:03.300 conditioning still played a part where you should stay quiet, you should be a 198 00:13:03.300 --> 00:13:06.780 good girl, you're a woman, all of those things, it still plays in your mind, 199 00:13:07.420 --> 00:13:11.220 but now you're starting to see that there is something worth fighting 200 00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:15.220 for. And it's not just for yourself, but for others as well. And 201 00:13:15.220 --> 00:13:18.460 that's where I said, I have to 202 00:13:19.340 --> 00:13:23.240 empower myself if I'm going to make a difference. And 203 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:27.200 I had no choice because I burnt my bridges with ever going down 204 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:30.640 the route of conventional career path. 205 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:34.240 So I had no choice. Yeah, I think 206 00:13:35.280 --> 00:13:38.759 we're often put on this conveyor belt of life, aren't we, to this very early 207 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:42.040 age, you will do this, you will do this, you will do this. As a 208 00:13:42.040 --> 00:13:45.840 young woman, there's a high expectation of getting 209 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:49.400 married, falling in love, having children, being a 210 00:13:49.400 --> 00:13:52.830 homemaker. Um, the last 20, 30, 40, 211 00:13:53.310 --> 00:13:57.230 even 50 years, women have now understood that their 212 00:13:57.230 --> 00:14:01.150 role is what they want it to be. Yes, they may well wish to 213 00:14:01.310 --> 00:14:05.270 have children, but it's not an automatic thing 214 00:14:05.270 --> 00:14:09.070 that they have to want. And I've seen many women who embrace 215 00:14:09.310 --> 00:14:13.150 the not having children, not being a mother, 216 00:14:13.150 --> 00:14:16.990 not being a parent, and they've consciously abstained from that. And. 217 00:14:17.230 --> 00:14:21.230 And that's a choice people make. Whereas previously there was this 218 00:14:21.230 --> 00:14:25.150 high expectation you weren't good enough, you were failing as a woman and 219 00:14:25.150 --> 00:14:28.470 owning that and empowering yourself to make the decision for your own self and your 220 00:14:28.470 --> 00:14:32.270 own body is something that we're starting to embrace now, or even more 221 00:14:32.270 --> 00:14:36.190 so. Yeah, yeah, of course. And there were lots 222 00:14:36.190 --> 00:14:40.030 of experiences in my life where there was certain expectations 223 00:14:40.030 --> 00:14:43.470 and even my own family and, you know, and my love choices. 224 00:14:44.350 --> 00:14:47.710 I Remember when I was relatively young, I was dating a guy 225 00:14:47.950 --> 00:14:51.870 who's a man of colour, right? And my mom said to me, 226 00:14:52.750 --> 00:14:56.750 why can't you just go for a Lithuanian guy? And my conditioning from 227 00:14:56.750 --> 00:15:00.710 a young age was, well, Lithuanian guys actually beat women. They 228 00:15:00.710 --> 00:15:04.550 don't treat them right. That was, that's what I've seen growing up. So 229 00:15:04.550 --> 00:15:08.470 naturally I was too afraid to date a Lithuanian guy. And I said to my 230 00:15:08.470 --> 00:15:12.380 mom, really bluntly, I said, mom, he can be blue, green, 231 00:15:12.380 --> 00:15:16.300 black, yellow, I don't care, as long as he treats me right and 232 00:15:16.300 --> 00:15:20.180 loves me. I will date whoever as long as he's good 233 00:15:20.180 --> 00:15:24.100 to me. So you can't tell me that a colour of 234 00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:28.060 his skin is going to make a difference to anyone and to 235 00:15:28.060 --> 00:15:31.980 make different choice because of it. So I was very, very clear from very young 236 00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:35.300 age that I was just not going to conform. 237 00:15:37.300 --> 00:15:41.220 You came up with that observation about Lithuanian guys? I had 238 00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:44.500 a bit of a surprise. I was in kyiv 239 00:15:45.140 --> 00:15:49.060 back in 2019 and I was with a group of people, we 240 00:15:49.060 --> 00:15:52.580 were speaking at a conference and we were there and I remember walking around 241 00:15:53.860 --> 00:15:57.460 Kyiv town centre or city centre, restaurants and bars and just 242 00:15:57.700 --> 00:16:01.700 around the central part and I noticed that there was a. 243 00:16:02.510 --> 00:16:04.910 Seemed to be common that men, 244 00:16:05.870 --> 00:16:09.830 Ukrainian men just walked straight through women. There was this kind of like. And 245 00:16:09.830 --> 00:16:13.750 I felt I had to get out of a man's way. There was 246 00:16:13.750 --> 00:16:16.990 no accommodation. Maybe in the UK a man would have been more polite and sort 247 00:16:16.990 --> 00:16:20.950 of stepped out the way or ladies first. I just got the impression that 248 00:16:20.950 --> 00:16:24.750 a Ukrainian man's were just very much 249 00:16:24.750 --> 00:16:28.390 more, I own the pavement, you have to get out of my way. And it 250 00:16:28.390 --> 00:16:31.230 happened in a supermarket as well. They just literally walked through me and I thought, 251 00:16:31.650 --> 00:16:35.490 wow, in one respect it was so gender affirming, but in the other 252 00:16:35.570 --> 00:16:39.570 effect it was like a real difference in culture is that have I. 253 00:16:40.690 --> 00:16:43.890 Have I represented that feeling accurately, do you think? 254 00:16:44.850 --> 00:16:48.330 It's interesting. I've never been to Ukraine, but I think that Eastern 255 00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:52.290 European men are more, in their 256 00:16:52.290 --> 00:16:55.250 own self view, macho men who 257 00:16:56.290 --> 00:16:59.410 try to uphold that masculinity and any 258 00:16:59.570 --> 00:17:03.350 weakness seems just not really not 259 00:17:03.350 --> 00:17:06.470 masculine enough. And therefore they try to exercise 260 00:17:06.950 --> 00:17:10.630 violence or overpowerment of women 261 00:17:10.790 --> 00:17:14.510 to assert their masculinity and their 262 00:17:14.510 --> 00:17:18.310 power. Yeah, I mean, part of it is a lot of the social conditioning and 263 00:17:18.310 --> 00:17:22.230 culture normalising it. You know, in the Western world it's not 264 00:17:22.230 --> 00:17:26.230 so normal and a lot of times, well, it has been illegal for a long 265 00:17:26.230 --> 00:17:30.050 time. Yeah, it was kind of socially accepted back in my country for 266 00:17:30.530 --> 00:17:34.290 women to beat men, for men to beat women. And I, I could, 267 00:17:34.290 --> 00:17:38.250 haven't seen that growing up. I just couldn't, couldn't deal 268 00:17:38.250 --> 00:17:41.930 with it. And I, I decided I will never accept that in my own 269 00:17:41.930 --> 00:17:45.490 relationship or I will never accept in my surroundings for that to be the case. 270 00:17:47.250 --> 00:17:50.930 So you shouldn't. Society puts a burden on women 271 00:17:51.250 --> 00:17:55.210 to present look, in 272 00:17:55.210 --> 00:17:58.900 certain ways there's a certain social 273 00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:02.340 value to a young, beautiful, attractive woman 274 00:18:02.740 --> 00:18:06.660 and as you get older, wrinkles, grey hair, child tummy, whatever, 275 00:18:06.980 --> 00:18:10.980 there's a certain pressure that you become less valuable. And 276 00:18:11.300 --> 00:18:14.940 so women are striving. And again, part of this struggle with 277 00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:18.940 empowerment is trying to fit in with these societal expectations which are 278 00:18:18.940 --> 00:18:22.940 generally designed by the patriarchy, designed by men who want 279 00:18:22.940 --> 00:18:26.660 to value and own women in a certain way. How can women be authentic and 280 00:18:26.740 --> 00:18:30.700 start to create their own value for who they are without having 281 00:18:30.700 --> 00:18:33.260 to subscribe to all these beauty standards? 282 00:18:34.540 --> 00:18:38.260 It's hard. I think I've seen many, many people having 283 00:18:38.260 --> 00:18:42.260 to live up to it and subscribe to it, as you say. However, I 284 00:18:42.260 --> 00:18:45.580 think the first step to it is a real self 285 00:18:45.580 --> 00:18:49.260 acceptance and knowing that those external layers 286 00:18:49.340 --> 00:18:53.260 does not define us. And I've done the same for many years, trying 287 00:18:53.260 --> 00:18:57.110 to look good and trying to, you know, you know, have the perfect body 288 00:18:57.110 --> 00:19:00.750 and the beautiful hair and then at one point just 289 00:19:00.750 --> 00:19:04.750 realising that's not what it's about. And actually when 290 00:19:04.750 --> 00:19:08.630 I was young, I went down the modelling route and at some 291 00:19:08.630 --> 00:19:12.310 point I decided that's not what I want to be known for. 292 00:19:13.030 --> 00:19:16.070 I. I want to be known for my impact and my 293 00:19:16.470 --> 00:19:19.910 knowledge and the way I see the world, not the way I look, 294 00:19:20.230 --> 00:19:24.080 because I felt that was so shallow. Oh, you, you can. To 295 00:19:24.080 --> 00:19:27.680 my attention. I mean, I do follow you on Facebook, I think I'm part of 296 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:31.600 some of your groups and see some of the updates. What struck 297 00:19:31.600 --> 00:19:34.760 me, I think it was about three or four months ago, two or three months 298 00:19:34.760 --> 00:19:37.200 ago, suddenly you went for being 299 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:42.160 long by most standards, beautiful, long 300 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:46.040 hair, blondish, aged on one side. 301 00:19:46.040 --> 00:19:50.000 I think you hit it cut and then suddenly you 302 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:53.900 said, it's all coming off. And then next shot, there 303 00:19:53.900 --> 00:19:57.820 you are with a grade zero, effectively you shaved it all 304 00:19:57.820 --> 00:20:01.580 off. And you were just so striking in that 305 00:20:01.580 --> 00:20:05.300 contrast between the old you and the new you. And I could 306 00:20:05.300 --> 00:20:09.140 see in your eyes and the smile when you shaved your head 307 00:20:09.140 --> 00:20:13.020 off, there's this certain ownership of self, wasn't there? You really owned 308 00:20:13.020 --> 00:20:16.580 that look. It's making me laugh. My whole life I was 309 00:20:16.660 --> 00:20:20.180 living up to the long blonde hair look. Never Changed it 310 00:20:20.630 --> 00:20:23.910 until a few years ago when I shaved one side and it was another act 311 00:20:23.910 --> 00:20:27.670 of rebellion and self ownership. And one day I just made a decision. 312 00:20:27.670 --> 00:20:31.630 I'm no longer subscribing to this. I'm just. That 313 00:20:31.630 --> 00:20:35.390 hair does not define me anymore. It has taken me so many years 314 00:20:35.390 --> 00:20:39.350 and so many layers of shedding shame, shedding 315 00:20:39.350 --> 00:20:42.790 fear, shedding societal expectations, 316 00:20:43.430 --> 00:20:47.350 living up to those things. And even before I shaved, I had fear. 317 00:20:47.430 --> 00:20:50.870 Don't get me wrong, I was afraid, what am I going to look like? What 318 00:20:50.870 --> 00:20:54.850 are people? What's next? What's after you shave? Your hair is gone. 319 00:20:54.850 --> 00:20:58.370 You can't just grow back overnight. I had a lot of fears. 320 00:20:58.850 --> 00:21:02.850 But the minute when I took it all off and I saw myself 321 00:21:02.850 --> 00:21:06.410 in the mirror, I held my head and I 322 00:21:06.410 --> 00:21:10.210 cried and I was like, wow, this is 323 00:21:10.210 --> 00:21:14.090 how it feels to liberate yourself of all 324 00:21:14.090 --> 00:21:17.930 those things you've been carrying your entire life. Having to live up to those 325 00:21:17.930 --> 00:21:21.670 expectations and finally seeing yourself in a mirror, finally 326 00:21:22.550 --> 00:21:25.270 seeing yourself without a mask. 327 00:21:26.310 --> 00:21:30.230 Because we put on a mask, we wear these masks of 328 00:21:30.390 --> 00:21:34.150 clothing brands, hair, makeup, 329 00:21:34.390 --> 00:21:38.030 whatever, other things to distract people from seeing our true 330 00:21:38.030 --> 00:21:41.510 authentic selves. And it was the most 331 00:21:41.510 --> 00:21:45.030 amazing experience and so empowering. It 332 00:21:45.030 --> 00:21:48.910 changed so many things for me when I'd done that. The level of self 333 00:21:48.910 --> 00:21:52.800 acceptance, it's just amazing. And I recommend it 334 00:21:52.800 --> 00:21:56.440 to so many people in whatever shape or form 335 00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:00.160 to empower yourself to that degree where you actually just 336 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.040 don't care what other people think and you just live your true authentic 337 00:22:04.040 --> 00:22:07.800 self. Just be you. If you love yourself, 338 00:22:08.120 --> 00:22:11.680 people have no choice but to accept you. Do you find that you get different 339 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:14.920 reactions from people now? I mean, I'm gonna say different, 340 00:22:15.570 --> 00:22:18.130 I guess, specifically around how men treat you 341 00:22:19.330 --> 00:22:23.250 than before. Do you get 342 00:22:23.250 --> 00:22:26.210 the impression men feel more threatened by you with the shorter hair, 343 00:22:27.010 --> 00:22:30.530 more nervous about you, more apprehensive about you, take you more seriously? 344 00:22:30.930 --> 00:22:33.810 Don't know exactly. But I recall 345 00:22:34.610 --> 00:22:38.290 walking in a supermarket in London a couple months ago 346 00:22:39.650 --> 00:22:43.600 and I'm noticing guys don't pay attention to 347 00:22:43.600 --> 00:22:47.520 me the way they used to. I realised that so much attention 348 00:22:47.600 --> 00:22:50.640 used to come to me because of being 349 00:22:51.600 --> 00:22:55.360 that. Having that perception of a kind of woman that you are, 350 00:22:55.520 --> 00:22:59.320 right? The long blonde hair, the curves or whatever, you 351 00:22:59.320 --> 00:23:03.120 know, I used to get a lot of attention and now I realise, 352 00:23:03.840 --> 00:23:07.800 okay, I'm not getting that attention and I don't mind either way because 353 00:23:07.800 --> 00:23:11.360 I have a partner, I have family. So for me it's neither here or there, 354 00:23:12.020 --> 00:23:15.780 but it's just an interesting observation. And those who Know me, but perhaps 355 00:23:15.780 --> 00:23:19.620 don't know me personally that much, afraid to 356 00:23:19.620 --> 00:23:23.620 ask, why the change? Because they think maybe I. I'm sick, 357 00:23:23.620 --> 00:23:27.100 maybe I have cancer. And sometimes when I see them for the first time and 358 00:23:27.100 --> 00:23:30.620 I realise that they kind of looking but trying not to ask anything, I say, 359 00:23:30.620 --> 00:23:34.460 don't worry, this is just a style change. You can ask me and make a 360 00:23:34.460 --> 00:23:38.020 little joke. And those who are in my community, especially 361 00:23:38.260 --> 00:23:41.240 my peers, have really 362 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:45.480 supported this change, like, really supported this change. They love the 363 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:49.280 change and they said, this is. This really, really suits you. I think it's very 364 00:23:49.280 --> 00:23:53.280 iconic. I think it suits you. And obviously different styles suit different people, 365 00:23:53.280 --> 00:23:56.960 but you kind of own it. You can see the empowerment there. I think from 366 00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:00.840 your authenticity point of view, it really is authentic with who you are and 367 00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:04.880 redefining your place in the world. I think it's very iconic. Thank 368 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:08.370 you. I appreciate it. Because I've got 369 00:24:08.770 --> 00:24:12.370 other female friends who have felt the pressure 370 00:24:12.610 --> 00:24:16.210 to shorten their hair because in the workplace or 371 00:24:16.690 --> 00:24:20.490 in leadership positions, they felt they weren't being taken seriously having 372 00:24:20.490 --> 00:24:24.490 long hair and they had to get a bob because this is almost this perception 373 00:24:24.490 --> 00:24:28.210 that long hair equals young, short hair equals older and more 374 00:24:28.210 --> 00:24:31.330 mature. So this desire to be perceived 375 00:24:32.370 --> 00:24:34.930 as more mature, more capable 376 00:24:36.290 --> 00:24:40.130 and I think your style, if you don't mind me saying, confuses men 377 00:24:40.770 --> 00:24:44.690 because what they're seeing is an empowered woman who's prepared to 378 00:24:44.770 --> 00:24:48.450 buck their needs and treat it as yourselves. 379 00:24:48.690 --> 00:24:51.090 I guess men are more apprehensive around you 380 00:24:52.610 --> 00:24:56.490 and, yeah, scared. Maybe. You're scared. Yeah. Well, you know, I want 381 00:24:56.490 --> 00:25:00.230 to just mention that my own partner. So this 382 00:25:00.230 --> 00:25:03.270 thought has come to my mind about two years ago and I said it to 383 00:25:03.270 --> 00:25:06.790 my partner, I said, I just want to shave it off. Honestly, dealing with so 384 00:25:06.790 --> 00:25:10.790 many challenges around my hair that I'm just tired. And at the 385 00:25:10.790 --> 00:25:14.230 time, I didn't go through with it. But he said to me, do it. Let's 386 00:25:14.230 --> 00:25:18.030 do it. Go for it. You're going to look amazing. And so when this 387 00:25:18.030 --> 00:25:21.550 next time I came around to him, I said, I think I'm really ready to 388 00:25:21.550 --> 00:25:25.390 do this now. I'm just so fed up. The hairdressers here in 389 00:25:25.390 --> 00:25:29.390 Spain causing me so much just, just. It was more headache 390 00:25:29.390 --> 00:25:33.190 than it was worth. And his wavering support and 391 00:25:33.190 --> 00:25:36.830 confidence and real love showed me that, 392 00:25:36.990 --> 00:25:39.950 you know, it doesn't matter what I look like, he loves me for who I 393 00:25:39.950 --> 00:25:43.870 am. And as that was enough of confirmation for 394 00:25:43.870 --> 00:25:47.310 me to say, I don't mind shaming it off, 395 00:25:47.790 --> 00:25:51.590 he's gonna still love Me. Regardless. Just for anyone who's listening, who hasn't got the 396 00:25:51.590 --> 00:25:55.410 video of this podcast, I should explain that you are 397 00:25:55.410 --> 00:25:58.330 rocking a kind of a grade one, grade two at the moment with 398 00:25:59.850 --> 00:26:03.810 grade one, grade zero sides. So you've maintained the short hair 399 00:26:03.810 --> 00:26:07.690 even after several months now? Yeah, Yeah, I love 400 00:26:07.690 --> 00:26:11.410 it. It's so easy to maintain. Sometimes I look at my older 401 00:26:11.410 --> 00:26:15.050