WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:00.560 Foreign. 2 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.320 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.200 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 4 00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:18.720 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 5 00:00:18.720 --> 00:00:22.640 inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. 6 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:27.040 Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone 7 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:30.760 not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. 8 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:35.200 Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge 9 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.760 the status quo and share stories that resonate 10 00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:42.480 deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're 11 00:00:42.480 --> 00:00:46.400 sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's 12 00:00:46.400 --> 00:00:50.360 connect, reflect and inspire action together. 13 00:00:51.080 --> 00:00:54.870 Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out 14 00:00:54.870 --> 00:00:58.670 to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 15 00:00:59.070 --> 00:01:02.590 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 16 00:01:03.470 --> 00:01:07.230 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 17 00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:10.830 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 18 00:01:14.510 --> 00:01:18.430 And today is episode 168 with the title 19 00:01:19.100 --> 00:01:22.860 Corrupting the Norm With Love. And I have the absolute 20 00:01:22.860 --> 00:01:26.660 honour and privilege to welcome Heather Egginton. Heather is a 21 00:01:26.660 --> 00:01:30.660 disruptor of the Norm and a truth, trust and love 22 00:01:30.660 --> 00:01:34.220 activator, passionate about creating deeper human connections 23 00:01:34.700 --> 00:01:38.580 in an often disconnected world. When I asked Heather 24 00:01:38.580 --> 00:01:42.460 to describe her superpower, she said it is the ability to bring 25 00:01:42.460 --> 00:01:46.110 strangers together and leaving them feel truly 26 00:01:46.110 --> 00:01:49.830 connected. Wow. Hello, Heather, welcome to the show. Hello, 27 00:01:49.830 --> 00:01:52.470 Joanne. Thank you so much for having me. 28 00:01:53.750 --> 00:01:57.550 Absolute pleasure. This is a return visit. I. Marie, actually my wife 29 00:01:57.550 --> 00:02:01.190 Marie and I came on your show back in January, I think it was. 30 00:02:02.070 --> 00:02:05.590 Yes, you came on. It was such an amazing conversation. 31 00:02:06.550 --> 00:02:10.360 It was the wealth of you two and you were the 32 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:14.240 one first couple that I went live with. It was 33 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:18.080 amazing. We talked about my gender 34 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:21.920 transition, we talked about how Marie coped with that. So, yeah, 35 00:02:21.920 --> 00:02:25.360 that's online and I'll signpost that in the show notes if you want to listen 36 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:28.160 to that as well, that'd be fantastic. So, Heather, 37 00:02:29.200 --> 00:02:32.720 you describe yourself as the Truth, Trust and love activator. 38 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:37.120 Can you describe what that means to you and how it shapes the way you 39 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:40.730 connect with people? Firstly, Joanne, thank you. I know I'm 40 00:02:40.730 --> 00:02:44.690 giggling a lot. We've had such fun before we 41 00:02:44.690 --> 00:02:48.690 even got on to actually recording, so I'm just trying to rein in my. 42 00:02:49.090 --> 00:02:52.450 My giggles and so my. I guess what 43 00:02:53.010 --> 00:02:57.010 being a truth, Trust and love activator is all about is 44 00:02:57.250 --> 00:03:00.650 really, in my company, that is 45 00:03:00.650 --> 00:03:04.610 automatically what happens. There are people around 46 00:03:04.850 --> 00:03:08.580 me that cannot lie. They seem to find themselves 47 00:03:08.580 --> 00:03:12.260 trusting themselves more to be honest. Right self 48 00:03:12.260 --> 00:03:15.660 honest and be honest with what's going on with them 49 00:03:16.540 --> 00:03:20.460 and. And through that they just love themselves more. Because they 50 00:03:20.460 --> 00:03:24.340 can see how much beauty there is inside them. Is 51 00:03:24.340 --> 00:03:28.140 just one of my superpowers. We all have 52 00:03:28.140 --> 00:03:32.060 them. It's just not always easy to really recognise, 53 00:03:32.470 --> 00:03:36.110 without us doing anything, what our actual powerful presence really 54 00:03:36.110 --> 00:03:39.990 creates for other people just by being ourselves. It's 55 00:03:39.990 --> 00:03:43.830 interesting what you say there about the truth. The truth, and it starts 56 00:03:43.830 --> 00:03:47.790 as you. I think you're right. It starts with ourselves. Because if we're not careful, 57 00:03:47.790 --> 00:03:50.870 what we find ourselves doing is creating our own 58 00:03:51.350 --> 00:03:55.310 lie, which then becomes our. Which then becomes a version of 59 00:03:55.310 --> 00:03:59.150 our truth, doesn't it? If we're not careful, it's that inauthenticity, it's 60 00:03:59.150 --> 00:04:03.150 that pretence with the world that get either scared to come out 61 00:04:03.630 --> 00:04:07.430 or you're not prepared to face up to something. So you create this new normal 62 00:04:07.430 --> 00:04:11.150 for yourself and that becomes your story if you're not careful. Yeah. 63 00:04:11.310 --> 00:04:15.310 It's like an illusion really, Joanne, Sometimes. And 64 00:04:15.550 --> 00:04:19.550 look, it's not even something maybe we consciously do. It might be 65 00:04:19.630 --> 00:04:23.550 unconsciously something that we kind of lead and live our life 66 00:04:24.030 --> 00:04:27.950 with and through and view the world through that's actually not 67 00:04:27.950 --> 00:04:31.870 even ours. Not most of the time. The lies we tell ourselves or 68 00:04:31.950 --> 00:04:35.630 inherited from past generations, 69 00:04:36.270 --> 00:04:39.950 significant adults in our life that have also gone through the same experience 70 00:04:40.590 --> 00:04:44.430 kind of had to try and make themselves be something they're not just in order 71 00:04:44.430 --> 00:04:48.190 to fit in or belong or all of those things. So it's 72 00:04:48.190 --> 00:04:51.710 actually something that we've inherited and it's not even ours. 73 00:04:52.430 --> 00:04:56.360 However, it does mean that taking 74 00:04:56.360 --> 00:05:00.200 radical responsibility, I guess, for what we're not willing to 75 00:05:00.440 --> 00:05:04.280 continue lying to ourselves about or lying to other people about. Right. 76 00:05:04.760 --> 00:05:08.720 You know, a good example of this, and this is some of the 77 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:12.360 work I do, is the wealth of Women programme that I run. A good 78 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:16.360 example of this is we've been led to believe that you're not a woman 79 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:20.200 unless you or you're not don't feel. Shouldn't feel complete as a 80 00:05:20.200 --> 00:05:23.640 woman unless you've had children. Right. And that's a lie. However, 81 00:05:24.220 --> 00:05:27.580 consciously or unconsciously we tell ourselves, I have no children, 82 00:05:27.900 --> 00:05:31.660 hands up, have fur babies, have two rescue doggies. 83 00:05:32.140 --> 00:05:35.900 And. And I was led to believe that I was incomplete. And also 84 00:05:35.980 --> 00:05:39.900 women said to me, I'm really sorry to hear that you can't have children. 85 00:05:40.220 --> 00:05:43.940 And it's just like, nobody said I couldn't have children. They just weren't in my 86 00:05:43.940 --> 00:05:47.620 path. Right. So just a good example of 87 00:05:47.620 --> 00:05:51.330 where really we maybe are 88 00:05:51.410 --> 00:05:55.410 delusioned into thinking that there's something wrong with us if we haven't 89 00:05:55.490 --> 00:05:58.850 gone the same way as other people have and it's not true. 90 00:05:59.730 --> 00:06:03.730 It's just not true. So it's just a good example. Yeah. I don't think 91 00:06:03.730 --> 00:06:07.730 having children has to define you. Okay, yes, it's a 92 00:06:07.730 --> 00:06:11.450 significant life event that occupies your 93 00:06:11.450 --> 00:06:14.970 primary brain for at least 20 odd years and then it's still in the back 94 00:06:14.970 --> 00:06:18.710 of your brain even now. So our children are in their 30s, 95 00:06:19.190 --> 00:06:23.030 so we've been through that ultimate responsibility phase 96 00:06:23.030 --> 00:06:26.390 and that hanger on phase and all those kind of phases. But now 97 00:06:26.870 --> 00:06:30.150 we're not post children, we're post worrying about children. 98 00:06:30.790 --> 00:06:34.550 And so having children no longer defines who we are. 99 00:06:34.710 --> 00:06:38.590 They're a fantastic part of our lives and people we 100 00:06:38.590 --> 00:06:42.590 love and treasure, but they're not what they were 20 years 101 00:06:42.590 --> 00:06:46.350 ago. So it's a transient phase. And when you talk about having children 102 00:06:46.350 --> 00:06:49.350 defines you, it's a transient phase. You become 103 00:06:50.310 --> 00:06:53.830 an active parent to being a kind of a long lost parent or they don't 104 00:06:53.830 --> 00:06:57.670 need you anymore. So yeah, I think it's. But I also see what, 105 00:06:57.750 --> 00:07:01.590 how I'm now able to support my own mum who's in her 106 00:07:02.150 --> 00:07:06.110 late 80s now and she's. Our father passed away. My 107 00:07:06.110 --> 00:07:09.830 father passed away a couple of months ago and so helping her through this 108 00:07:09.830 --> 00:07:13.590 transition from being married, although my father was in the nursing home, 109 00:07:13.590 --> 00:07:17.520 to being a now a widower, 110 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:21.520 single again and trying to reclaim our own independence and own 111 00:07:21.520 --> 00:07:24.160 identity around that is a really interesting journey and 112 00:07:25.760 --> 00:07:29.680 I hope I teach our children about 113 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:33.440 how I've had to help my mum adjust to this 114 00:07:34.080 --> 00:07:38.080 so that they'll be there for either me or Marie at that point when 115 00:07:38.080 --> 00:07:41.970 we become a widow. So I think, yeah, 116 00:07:41.970 --> 00:07:45.610 it's important to learn that transition, I think. But 117 00:07:45.610 --> 00:07:49.450 yeah, as you say, it doesn't define me. I just know that I've got 118 00:07:49.770 --> 00:07:53.530 hopefully two children who will look after me later. 119 00:07:55.130 --> 00:07:58.570 I've banked up that old age pension support 120 00:07:59.690 --> 00:08:03.570 credit. I love it. Sparky's just 121 00:08:03.570 --> 00:08:07.190 woken up. I'm not sure that tin dogs would be able to support me 122 00:08:07.510 --> 00:08:11.150 when I get into my elderly years. However, they 123 00:08:11.150 --> 00:08:15.070 fully support me now Right. In bringing out the best of 124 00:08:15.070 --> 00:08:19.030 me now. And I would say, you know, speaking to that 125 00:08:19.030 --> 00:08:22.990 Joanne, firstly, sorry to hear about you losing your father a few months 126 00:08:22.990 --> 00:08:26.310 ago and please send my love to your mother. 127 00:08:27.510 --> 00:08:31.190 This is a really harsh statement to make, so 128 00:08:31.190 --> 00:08:34.920 forgive me if this is a bit triggery, but. But ultimately we don't 129 00:08:34.920 --> 00:08:38.760 necessarily mourn the person that we've lost. We actually 130 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:42.760 mourn the identity that person gave us. Yeah, I can 131 00:08:42.760 --> 00:08:46.680 Relate to that. I mean, my relationship with my father wasn't great. And 132 00:08:46.760 --> 00:08:50.600 it surprised me how much I was emotionally 133 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:54.520 connected to his passing, given that I had very little time 134 00:08:54.520 --> 00:08:58.080 for him when he was alive. And it was, you say, I think as you 135 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:01.970 write, it's clinging onto that identity of him being a father 136 00:09:02.450 --> 00:09:06.330 and me being a child and just that, that break 137 00:09:06.330 --> 00:09:10.090 of the. That bond, if you like, in the living. And 138 00:09:10.090 --> 00:09:13.210 yeah, I think you summed up really well there. It hit me more than I 139 00:09:13.210 --> 00:09:16.930 thought. Yeah. And it is. People 140 00:09:17.010 --> 00:09:19.970 find it really surprising they could have no real 141 00:09:20.690 --> 00:09:24.650 contact with a particular relative or friend and then they find 142 00:09:24.650 --> 00:09:28.620 out they've passed and it really hits them. And it is generally 143 00:09:28.620 --> 00:09:32.540 on a. I would say, depending on the person. Right. Because 144 00:09:34.540 --> 00:09:38.340 I believe currently that we are all the 145 00:09:38.340 --> 00:09:42.260 same, yet we're just living on different timelines. Right. So depending 146 00:09:42.260 --> 00:09:45.980 on the person, on average, I would say 147 00:09:46.140 --> 00:09:48.860 me personally, I probably go through 148 00:09:50.540 --> 00:09:54.160 the loss, let's say, of an identity every two or three, 149 00:09:54.390 --> 00:09:58.310 three weeks. And what happens with that is the, what I call 150 00:09:58.310 --> 00:10:02.070 it, and this is a lot of my work with individuals, private 151 00:10:02.150 --> 00:10:05.870 work with individuals, is about getting them to, I guess, 152 00:10:05.870 --> 00:10:09.670 navigate and lead themselves through the grief 153 00:10:09.910 --> 00:10:13.910 relief, disbelief and belief cycle. So. 154 00:10:13.990 --> 00:10:17.870 And that's what we experience when we lose somebody that we love 155 00:10:17.870 --> 00:10:21.870 very, very much, whether we're really connected to. To them or not. And even when 156 00:10:21.870 --> 00:10:25.350 we don't really love them that much. But it was what they gave us. You 157 00:10:25.350 --> 00:10:29.270 know, the identity is, is, you know, we go through the, the 158 00:10:29.270 --> 00:10:33.190 kind of the disbelief that someone's actually not here anymore. Right. And then we kind 159 00:10:33.190 --> 00:10:36.750 of feel that grief of. And we grieve what was. 160 00:10:37.070 --> 00:10:40.270 Right, what was before, that's no longer the same. 161 00:10:41.310 --> 00:10:45.110 And then we go through that kind of phase of relief. It's 162 00:10:45.110 --> 00:10:48.910 like, oh, now there's this thing that's leaving us these 163 00:10:48.910 --> 00:10:52.830 feelings that have probably given us a bit of dark days. And then we come 164 00:10:52.830 --> 00:10:56.670 out the other side in belief when we see that this 165 00:10:56.670 --> 00:11:00.590 person's not gone, they actually live on through us. And that 166 00:11:00.590 --> 00:11:04.230 is really powerful when we kind of get to that place. And 167 00:11:04.310 --> 00:11:08.230 it's not always in the space that I've done it. Right. So it can 168 00:11:08.230 --> 00:11:11.990 take people a couple of three years if it's someone they've lived with on a 169 00:11:11.990 --> 00:11:15.730 daily basis. But it's just once, silly. Once somebody 170 00:11:15.730 --> 00:11:19.690 knows that's the kind of thing they're going to go through, that 171 00:11:19.690 --> 00:11:22.930 there's almost a little bit of peace that's found there. Really. 172 00:11:25.170 --> 00:11:28.610 Yeah. I just think about how My mum describes it 173 00:11:28.849 --> 00:11:32.810 that if my father was in the nursing home for over two years, so she 174 00:11:32.810 --> 00:11:36.290 was very used to living alone, getting on with life. 175 00:11:36.850 --> 00:11:40.490 She used to visit him sometimes two or three times a week for an hour 176 00:11:40.490 --> 00:11:44.400 at a time, and she'd always save up things that she wanted to 177 00:11:44.400 --> 00:11:47.960 tell him on the next visit, so she always had something to talk about, because 178 00:11:47.960 --> 00:11:51.920 obviously his life was four walls and a window in the distance 179 00:11:51.920 --> 00:11:55.440 and he could probably see the same tree, the same building, and that's all he 180 00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:59.280 could see. So his life had no depth to it. It was 181 00:11:59.280 --> 00:12:03.160 very transactional. Eat, get changed, cleaned 182 00:12:03.160 --> 00:12:07.120 up, sleep, get up, not even get up, sit up, 183 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:10.720 have dinner and then food, sleep, repeat sort of thing. 184 00:12:11.680 --> 00:12:14.240 So she used to save all these things up. And she said that the strange 185 00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:17.960 thing is that she keeps thinking, oh, I must tell dad that, or I must 186 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:21.520 tell dad that. And that's the biggest thing she finds, is that 187 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.240 habit of interaction, I suppose. I was heavily involved last 188 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:30.000 year with sorting out some issues around his medication, 189 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:34.400 his wellbeing. He had some reactions to medication and 190 00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:38.090 infection, which meant his personality change really, really 191 00:12:38.250 --> 00:12:41.850 badly for the worse. And so I was dealing with care home issues, 192 00:12:42.330 --> 00:12:44.730 being hidden issues type thing with 193 00:12:46.090 --> 00:12:49.930 old people's mental health, those kind of events. So it's a real. 194 00:12:50.890 --> 00:12:54.330 I got really, really engaged in this for about two months, really trying to sort 195 00:12:54.330 --> 00:12:57.610 this out. And we got him onto this really nice level playing field where it 196 00:12:57.610 --> 00:13:01.530 was really fine. And then, then he started to decline. So it's 197 00:13:01.530 --> 00:13:04.900 almost like could have done with another six months of him 198 00:13:05.300 --> 00:13:09.100 being really a really nice person again, having had all that trauma in the 199 00:13:09.100 --> 00:13:12.980 summer. So, yeah, it is strange. It's strange you 200 00:13:12.980 --> 00:13:16.940 become very invested in that relationship, even though, 201 00:13:16.940 --> 00:13:19.500 as I say, even though it's strange for me and my mum still sees it 202 00:13:19.500 --> 00:13:20.340 as well. So, yeah, 203 00:13:23.060 --> 00:13:25.940 grief is strange. You were talking earlier about 204 00:13:27.060 --> 00:13:30.660 these layers of truth and as you were talking, I was thinking about 205 00:13:31.910 --> 00:13:35.750 Breaking Bad at the series, for example, where 206 00:13:35.750 --> 00:13:39.750 Walter, his truth got away from him, didn't 207 00:13:39.750 --> 00:13:43.590 it? He kept laying and laying and laying all these different events 208 00:13:43.910 --> 00:13:47.510 and then he found he couldn't go backwards. The only way he could dig himself 209 00:13:47.510 --> 00:13:51.350 out was to dig deeper. And sometimes when you're 210 00:13:51.350 --> 00:13:55.350 inventing these truths or the language you're telling yourself 211 00:13:55.350 --> 00:13:59.240 who you are, you can become so engrossed in that. It's hard 212 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:02.600 to find your way back to the truth again, isn't it? I've not never watched 213 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:06.560 Breaking Bad. I don't know what you were referring to, 214 00:14:06.640 --> 00:14:10.320 but I think what you were referring to is the layers that we place on 215 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:14.080 our. The layers that we have to kind of work through or 216 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:18.080 keep up with and remember. Oh no, but I 217 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:21.800 said I'm that type of person and now I'm with this person and I can't 218 00:14:21.800 --> 00:14:25.630 remember what person I am with this person person. And so we add all these 219 00:14:25.630 --> 00:14:29.630 extra layers. I think that's what you're describing. Yeah. If you've 220 00:14:29.630 --> 00:14:32.190 seen EastEnders, I don't know if you're an EastEnders fan, but you had 221 00:14:34.510 --> 00:14:38.110 a recent character called Rhys and he became a serial 222 00:14:38.110 --> 00:14:41.870 killer and one problem at a time 223 00:14:42.430 --> 00:14:46.390 got away from him and he kept rationalising what 224 00:14:46.390 --> 00:14:50.390 he had to do based on the disaster of a situation he was 225 00:14:50.390 --> 00:14:53.870 in, rather than going back and going back 10 paces and going, 226 00:14:54.190 --> 00:14:58.070 if I don't take the left hand fork here and go right, things will 227 00:14:58.070 --> 00:15:01.390 be okay, even though they're tricky. But that's what we do. We make this poor 228 00:15:01.390 --> 00:15:05.190 decision and we can't go back, can we? We find it very difficult to 229 00:15:05.190 --> 00:15:09.070 reverse out of that one way street. Yeah, it can be 230 00:15:09.070 --> 00:15:12.870 like that. I think also a lot of. Joanne, you 231 00:15:12.870 --> 00:15:16.870 know, as much as I don't watch telly, you know, that's why a lot of 232 00:15:16.870 --> 00:15:20.670 people are, let's say AKA and maybe addicted to like theories 233 00:15:20.670 --> 00:15:24.600 and soaps and, and characters identities within 234 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:28.440 these dramas, right? Because what they do is they so much see 235 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:32.160 themselves that it could be there, right? That they 236 00:15:32.160 --> 00:15:35.960 could get to that place where they do something that's a bit criminal 237 00:15:36.040 --> 00:15:39.040 and they're like, how did I even get to this place? And it's just like, 238 00:15:39.040 --> 00:15:42.280 well, one lie after another just led to this, right? 239 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:47.000 So ultimately for us to understand 240 00:15:47.320 --> 00:15:50.800 within ourselves that, that there are these 241 00:15:50.800 --> 00:15:54.600 greater forces just as there are the 242 00:15:54.920 --> 00:15:58.360 powers that be, the universe, God, whatever kind of 243 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:02.360 terminology, there's also these other greater forces that 244 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:06.320 come and try and take you out when you are really living 245 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:09.920 and leading in your truth, right? And it's being able to 246 00:16:09.920 --> 00:16:13.720 discern between is that my truth or is that something 247 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:17.450 else? And it's really powerful. The questions 248 00:16:17.450 --> 00:16:21.330 sometimes that I find myself asking, personal 249 00:16:21.330 --> 00:16:25.290 one to one clients, is that like, is this really true for 250 00:16:25.290 --> 00:16:28.610 you, right, or is this another reality 251 00:16:29.170 --> 00:16:33.130 that you have maybe been witnessing or 252 00:16:33.130 --> 00:16:36.690 that you have been led to believe is yours in truth, 253 00:16:37.010 --> 00:16:40.960 like is it yours? Right? And it is quite 254 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:44.720 a grounding question for the reason that you've just described with the 255 00:16:44.800 --> 00:16:48.440 characters in the TV shows. Because it does force 256 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:52.240 somebody, the energy disruption there, like the norm disruptor, 257 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:55.840 right? From my perspective, it does force Somebody to ask themselves 258 00:16:56.400 --> 00:17:00.040 and question themselves a lot deeper than the 259 00:17:00.040 --> 00:17:03.880 maybe others have before. Right. I 260 00:17:03.880 --> 00:17:07.870 like to play the why game. And I've done it with 261 00:17:08.270 --> 00:17:12.150 all amount different level of clients. So they're millionaires, 262 00:17:12.150 --> 00:17:16.110 CEOs, entrepreneurs. Right. 263 00:17:16.910 --> 00:17:20.670 And it's five whys. Yeah. So someone would come 264 00:17:20.670 --> 00:17:24.670 with something that they want to create, let's say, and birth 265 00:17:24.670 --> 00:17:28.270 into the world. And then we play the why game with it. We're like, well, 266 00:17:28.270 --> 00:17:32.030 why? Is that really important to you? Why? Right. And it. I mean, it is 267 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:36.400 a little bit intrusive, I'm not gonna lie. 268 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:39.800 And it is annoying as well, because I play it with myself. Right. And it 269 00:17:39.800 --> 00:17:43.800 gets frustrating. But. But once we get to the root of why someone wants 270 00:17:43.800 --> 00:17:47.800 to create something, it's really powerful because they can see what it's 271 00:17:47.800 --> 00:17:51.680 rooted in. And if it's rooted in truth, brilliant. If it's rooted in 272 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:55.680 love and trust, brilliant. But if it's not, it's like, well, that 273 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.610 is not yours. You know, you're trying to create, 274 00:17:59.610 --> 00:18:02.890 let's say, in a false reality that's not actually yours. 275 00:18:03.370 --> 00:18:07.370 So it is really. I love that you've gone down this path. Have no idea. 276 00:18:07.370 --> 00:18:11.370 Can we say, whoever's tuning in, we did not know where this was 277 00:18:11.370 --> 00:18:14.970 going to go. Right. So I appreciate your inquiries so much. 278 00:18:15.050 --> 00:18:18.970 Yeah. And it happens, you know, it's almost like that we 279 00:18:19.130 --> 00:18:23.050 were too afraid to tell the truth. That, you know, we're 280 00:18:23.050 --> 00:18:26.780 talking about that path left and right. Whatever reason it is, there's 281 00:18:26.780 --> 00:18:30.780 either shame, guilt, fear, whatever it is, causes us 282 00:18:30.780 --> 00:18:34.740 to want to take the path of easy. The easiest path, the one with less 283 00:18:34.820 --> 00:18:38.820 stigma attached to it. Less fear, less truth. How will I 284 00:18:38.820 --> 00:18:42.700 be judged? Whether we're having an affair, whether we've messed up 285 00:18:42.700 --> 00:18:46.340 at work, pushed the wrong button by mistake. You know, when you connect the 286 00:18:46.420 --> 00:18:50.340 first time earlier, I cut you off because I pressed the red 287 00:18:50.340 --> 00:18:53.580 X instead of the green tick. And you said, oh, it didn't work. I could 288 00:18:53.580 --> 00:18:56.100 have just said to you, oh, that's strange. I don't know why that happened. I 289 00:18:56.100 --> 00:18:59.620 went. I thought I might have pressed the X button instead of the tick button 290 00:18:59.780 --> 00:19:03.460 because it's. I've learned over the years that 291 00:19:03.700 --> 00:19:07.380 it's much easier to just tell the truth at that junction 292 00:19:08.020 --> 00:19:11.900 because once you stop, once you start on that lie, you then escalate 293 00:19:11.900 --> 00:19:15.700 it all the way through and it becomes that relationship. It's built on that one 294 00:19:15.700 --> 00:19:19.580 mistruth or that easy excuse. If I'm 295 00:19:19.580 --> 00:19:23.360 late for a meeting, I just say to people, I'm Sorry, I was completely 296 00:19:23.360 --> 00:19:27.000 daydreaming and I had no idea what the time was and I suddenly looked at 297 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:30.920 my watch and did omg, and I hope you forgive me. So I'd 298 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:34.200 rather say that than, oh, no, my computer was playing up. Oh, no. I had 299 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.800 to dash to the doctors because I had a headache this morning. 300 00:19:38.040 --> 00:19:42.040 It's just to tell the truth and be honest because people go, oh, 301 00:19:42.040 --> 00:19:45.080 I've done that myself. You end up having this big conversation 302 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:49.120 about how we're all just human, we all get stuff wrong, don't we? 303 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.960 Yeah, I mean, that's the loving and compassionate and 304 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:56.840 empathetic way of seeing truth. Because if 305 00:19:56.840 --> 00:20:00.800 we're really honest, the. What I say is the truth, 306 00:20:01.280 --> 00:20:05.120 it kind of whisks up your insides and other people's 307 00:20:05.120 --> 00:20:09.000 as well. Say, for example, my example of not 308 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:13.000 being complete as a woman without having children. You know, that is going 309 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:16.210 to be polarising for a lot of people, 310 00:20:16.930 --> 00:20:20.770 right? And so therefore the truth 311 00:20:20.770 --> 00:20:24.570 whisks people up, whereas lies, they twist you 312 00:20:24.570 --> 00:20:28.210 up. And when I say twist you up, Joanne, I mean, physically, 313 00:20:28.370 --> 00:20:32.050 your body contorts itself, contracts itself. 314 00:20:32.370 --> 00:20:36.050 I mean, this is going really out there, right? And 315 00:20:36.210 --> 00:20:39.570 my belief is it does cause and create cancer 316 00:20:39.970 --> 00:20:43.420 in human beings the more we live 317 00:20:43.900 --> 00:20:47.820 a lie, right, My foundation, 318 00:20:48.220 --> 00:20:52.140 like now in life is I'd rather have the whole world against 319 00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:56.060 me than live a lie, you know, and. And I. And 320 00:20:56.060 --> 00:20:59.820 that also is very polarising. But it's just like, 321 00:20:59.900 --> 00:21:03.180 why would I ever want to treat myself 322 00:21:03.980 --> 00:21:07.740 as something that's not valuable, that valuable enough 323 00:21:07.820 --> 00:21:10.870 to. To really honour its true power 324 00:21:11.350 --> 00:21:15.310 ultimately? And unfortunately, as I. On 325 00:21:15.310 --> 00:21:18.630 my website, it tells people, like, the five kind of 326 00:21:18.870 --> 00:21:22.150 stages to working with me from a transformational perspective. 327 00:21:23.110 --> 00:21:27.110 And the first one is like, we get rid of 328 00:21:27.110 --> 00:21:31.110 the lies we tell ourselves, right? So. And we get to the root of 329 00:21:31.110 --> 00:21:34.470 what created that, which is amazing because 330 00:21:35.310 --> 00:21:39.190 it's all working in our favour. It's just that 331 00:21:39.190 --> 00:21:42.910 normally we kind of lead with lies, or 332 00:21:43.870 --> 00:21:47.470 let's say, act a different way when we're a little bit triggered about something, 333 00:21:48.110 --> 00:21:51.950 because it just means we're not fully living in our true kind 334 00:21:51.950 --> 00:21:55.790 of path, you know, we're not living and leading 335 00:21:55.870 --> 00:21:59.830 in our true value as a person, which is all, like, 336 00:21:59.830 --> 00:22:03.760 easily kind of put back together. People can come back 337 00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:07.760 home to themselves, all easily remembered. But it's just like you say, 338 00:22:07.760 --> 00:22:11.760 the layers of lies, once they come back, it's like, 339 00:22:11.760 --> 00:22:15.760 oh, of course I understand. Now I see why this was 340 00:22:15.760 --> 00:22:19.040 happening to me, or now I see why I have this 341 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:23.240 hip problem. Or now I see why my 342 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:27.020 digestive system's messed up, for example. And it's 343 00:22:27.020 --> 00:22:30.660 like, so once you notice and go back to the root of everything 344 00:22:30.980 --> 00:22:34.860 and, and see that it's all just because 345 00:22:34.860 --> 00:22:38.020 I started a lie here and then it just escalated 346 00:22:38.980 --> 00:22:42.980 and it's like, how powerful is that though? That 347 00:22:42.980 --> 00:22:46.780 is simply following that energetic trail back to the root 348 00:22:46.780 --> 00:22:48.260 causes. It's amazing. 349 00:22:50.740 --> 00:22:54.580 Because we look at the escalation. The first lie 350 00:22:54.580 --> 00:22:58.380 is, is, is 10 centimetres. The next 351 00:22:58.380 --> 00:23:02.060 lie is another 10 centimetres. Another 10. Everything is built on that, on that first 352 00:23:02.060 --> 00:23:05.780 10 centimetres. And to climb down from 10 353 00:23:05.780 --> 00:23:09.460 metres after a year or whatever it may be 354 00:23:10.340 --> 00:23:13.500 then, then people start unpacking all the lies going, well, hang on a minute, you 355 00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:15.540 lied to me about that and you lied to me about that and you lied 356 00:23:15.540 --> 00:23:17.940 to me about that and, or, or I lied to myself about that or I 357 00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:21.860 lied to myself about that, whatever it may be. And you 358 00:23:21.860 --> 00:23:25.020 then become so invested in that new version of you, 359 00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:29.740 you look at bigger mists and other people, criminals, whatever it may be, 360 00:23:30.220 --> 00:23:34.060 become completely invested in this double identity, 361 00:23:34.620 --> 00:23:38.340 there's no way of backpedalling because then your truth is so far removed from who 362 00:23:38.340 --> 00:23:42.340 you are now that you'll never be forgiven. And then you're trying 363 00:23:42.340 --> 00:23:45.660 to hold onto that and thinking, hang on a minute, I'm protecting the person I'm 364 00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:49.520 lying to, that becomes your new truth as well. 365 00:23:49.520 --> 00:23:53.480 You're doing it for them, not for you. Yeah. I mean the biggest thing I 366 00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:57.480 picked up on there was there's almost like one, 367 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:00.760 there's almost like a divide within ourselves. 368 00:24:01.320 --> 00:24:04.760 Yeah. And I know that you talk and you make a stand for equity, 369 00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:08.760 diversity and inclusion. Right. So there's almost 370 00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:12.880 a place where we become a divided person. And 371 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:16.410 work is a really good example of this. As someone who 372 00:24:16.810 --> 00:24:20.650 worked in the corporate world for 25 years, previously 373 00:24:20.650 --> 00:24:24.090 leaving as a projects director for IT 374 00:24:24.170 --> 00:24:27.610 professionals and management consultancies. 375 00:24:28.650 --> 00:24:32.170 Who I was at work was, not who I was at home. 376 00:24:33.050 --> 00:24:36.170 Yeah. And this like divide within us 377 00:24:36.570 --> 00:24:40.370 becomes almost the biggest point that you made 378 00:24:40.370 --> 00:24:44.090 about the 10 centimetres is, is so true, Joanne, because it, 379 00:24:44.330 --> 00:24:48.170 we separate ourselves from, and specifically our 380 00:24:48.170 --> 00:24:52.130 body from. Right. So we can always push through and make it 381 00:24:52.130 --> 00:24:55.890 into work. Yet when it comes to the weekend 382 00:24:55.890 --> 00:24:59.450 and have fun, we want to curl up on the sofa and 383 00:25:00.330 --> 00:25:03.450 just wallow in self pity or, or 384 00:25:04.410 --> 00:25:08.410 eat loads of crap food or like and just immerse ourselves in 385 00:25:08.410 --> 00:25:11.860 something so that we can forget about everything else. 386 00:25:12.260 --> 00:25:16.060 Right. And it's like when you, when I mean that, when you see 387 00:25:16.060 --> 00:25:19.780 that if that is Something you're experiencing, like I was 388 00:25:19.780 --> 00:25:22.260 experiencing. Then 389 00:25:23.540 --> 00:25:27.300 there's almost a. Something that turns up to wake you 390 00:25:27.300 --> 00:25:31.100 up. Right. I'll put it that way. Right. Like a big jolt 391 00:25:31.100 --> 00:25:35.060 in something that's happened in your life that goes really like. And I'm really 392 00:25:35.060 --> 00:25:39.050 living my life this way. Way, because this clearly is not 393 00:25:39.050 --> 00:25:42.850 working for me. And for me, that was losing my cat. I 394 00:25:42.850 --> 00:25:46.850 had Lester. Yeah. Such. I mean, I'm saying simple, but we 395 00:25:46.850 --> 00:25:50.770 all know, you know, living beings, whatever form they come in, right. 396 00:25:50.770 --> 00:25:54.570 Are really valuable. And. And I was like, hold on a minute, I haven't got 397 00:25:54.570 --> 00:25:58.170 anything to be responsible for. Why am I slogging my heart out of work 398 00:25:59.370 --> 00:26:03.370 behind the scenes? I was already building a property portfolio 399 00:26:03.370 --> 00:26:06.610 for myself anyway. So it was like, why, 400 00:26:07.010 --> 00:26:10.290 why, why am I putting myself through this hell every day 401 00:26:11.650 --> 00:26:15.330