Joanne Lockwood: Foreign.
Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary
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Joanne Lockwood: So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to
Joanne Lockwood: ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.
Joanne Lockwood: And today is episode 182
Joanne Lockwood: with the title From Chaos to Calm. And I
Joanne Lockwood: have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Sally Bisbee.
Joanne Lockwood: Sally is a mum life simplification coach who helps
Joanne Lockwood: overwhelmed mothers create calm through simple routines
Joanne Lockwood: and guilt free self care. When I asked Sally to
Joanne Lockwood: describe her superpower, she said that it is turning everyday
Joanne Lockwood: overwhelm into empowering ease for busy
Joanne Lockwood: mums. Hello Sally, welcome to the show. Hello.
Sally Bisbee: Thanks for having me. Absolute pleasure. And
Joanne Lockwood: from the accent, I can tell you not in the uk, so whereabouts in the
Joanne Lockwood: world are you? I am not. I am in the United States. I live in
Sally Bisbee: Minnesota, which is. Which is in the central
Sally Bisbee: northern spot of the United States.
Joanne Lockwood: So the Canadian wall is just above. Is that. Yes, yes,
Sally Bisbee: we are. We. We live in south of Canada. Yeah. Wow.
Joanne Lockwood: I forget how big the states is. You know, six hours for me is a
Joanne Lockwood: long way up the country. So. Yeah, you forget. Yeah,
Sally Bisbee: the states are very big. To get from, from Canada down to
Sally Bisbee: Mexico is probably, I would say 30 or 35
Sally Bisbee: hours if you were to drive straight from top of Minnesota, the bottom of
Sally Bisbee: Texas. Yeah, I tried driving from
Joanne Lockwood: LA once down to San Diego and then from San Diego I ended up in
Joanne Lockwood: Mexico. That took a long drive and I also tried to drive from LA to
Joanne Lockwood: San Francisco and I gave up 3/4 of the way there. It was just too
Joanne Lockwood: far. Just like. Sure, everything's much closer for you. There
Sally Bisbee: it is over in the uk it's much more contained.
Joanne Lockwood: So did you have a good Easter? We just come back for an Easter break,
Joanne Lockwood: haven't we? Yes, yes, we had a wonderful Easter. We hosted and
Sally Bisbee: two, two of my three kids are young still six and nine, so
Sally Bisbee: they're in you Know, just the, like, Easter is so fun still. And
Sally Bisbee: yeah, it was a really great weekend. So
Joanne Lockwood: you've got, you just said there you've got two young, youngish children. They're
Joanne Lockwood: not babies, but they're youngish. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: Have you managed to reclaim your own calm? I have,
Sally Bisbee: I have. It's been a process, but I
Sally Bisbee: have, yeah. So what made you realise that maybe you
Joanne Lockwood: weren't calm, which meant you had to try to develop this
Joanne Lockwood: way of helping other mums? Yes. So just a little
Sally Bisbee: background. So those. I have the two quote unquote younger kids, they're six and
Sally Bisbee: nine, so they're not little, little anymore. But my oldest, I have a third, she's
Sally Bisbee: 22, so big gap. I've been doing this mom
Sally Bisbee: thing for a long time and when my third came
Sally Bisbee: and she was about 2, I would say they were 2, 5 and 17.
Sally Bisbee: I just went through this period of time in my life
Sally Bisbee: where I was so overwhelmed. I woke up every morning just feeling like.
Sally Bisbee: Just overwhelmed and behind for the day already, before the day had even started.
Sally Bisbee: And I just finally thought, I can't, I can't keep living this way.
Sally Bisbee: Right. Like, I've got another 16 years of these
Sally Bisbee: kids for sure, being in my house. And probably more, as most of us moms
Sally Bisbee: of olders know, they. My. My oldest is about to graduate college and move
Sally Bisbee: home for a little bit, so they, they come back and I just thought, I
Sally Bisbee: can't. I can't keep living this way. And so I just decided
Sally Bisbee: to start making some changes in my own life and really just
Sally Bisbee: simplify my life. So it wasn't just a ball of stress all the time.
Sally Bisbee: And I just really wanted to be a present happy
Sally Bisbee: mom for my kids because I know that they deserve that I deserve that, all
Sally Bisbee: the things. So that really was kind of what started my journey of.
Sally Bisbee: Of my own stuff and then turned into.
Sally Bisbee: Into my passion for helping other moms do the same thing. Wow. Yeah. I mean,
Joanne Lockwood: our kids are. I say kids, they're not really kids anymore. They're. They're grown. They're
Joanne Lockwood: grown people. Okay. Our daughter's in their 30s and our son's
Joanne Lockwood: 30 as well. So, yeah, we went through the kid zone
Joanne Lockwood: in the early 90s, so it's been a while. Sure. But I do
Joanne Lockwood: remember because you think you've got your. You think you got it all
Joanne Lockwood: together with the first one, you come out the first one, you kind of get
Joanne Lockwood: used to it and they're two or three years old, as
Joanne Lockwood: our daughter was, and suddenly you have the second One. You think,
Joanne Lockwood: wow, this is a lot harder than I remember. Yeah,
Joanne Lockwood: you forget quickly, don't you? You do, you do. Which I always laugh. That's why
Sally Bisbee: we have multiple kids. Because you do it, you get a couple years into it
Sally Bisbee: and you're like, oh, it's another one, another one spot. And then you add a
Sally Bisbee: couple more and you're like, oh my goodness. And you know, for me
Sally Bisbee: it was my, my husband and I are both,
Sally Bisbee: you know, one of the things that's always been important to us is that we,
Sally Bisbee: we keep our life outside of just being mom or dad. My husband
Sally Bisbee: is an avid fisherman and hunter and does his own thing, which
Sally Bisbee: I love. I am super social and so finding time
Sally Bisbee: with friends is super important. And I feel like when I was at that stage
Sally Bisbee: where I was like, so overwhelmed that like, the thought of finding time for myself
Sally Bisbee: was so hard. And it's just a common thing. I talk
Sally Bisbee: to many moms about, like, finding any time for themselves seems impossible. And
Sally Bisbee: I thought there's, you know, there's got to be a way because I'm not going
Sally Bisbee: to wait until these kids are 18 or, you know, even, you know, 15, when
Sally Bisbee: maybe life gets a little bit easier to like get back
Sally Bisbee: my own time in life. So it's been, it's been a fun journey
Sally Bisbee: figuring out how to find the calm amidst the chaos. Do you
Joanne Lockwood: think some of it is just the, the perfectionism in us
Joanne Lockwood: that we want everything just right or I want the house tidy, I want my
Joanne Lockwood: kids to look the part, I want to keep my schedule. I've got to maybe
Joanne Lockwood: do some work. I've got to look after my partner or my partner's got to
Joanne Lockwood: look after me. And we're going to try and try and box everything in and
Joanne Lockwood: we end up overstressing ourselves. Is that, is that what's going on? Yes, a lot
Sally Bisbee: of it. So much of it. And you know, I'm myself, I'm a super type
Sally Bisbee: A person. I will say I'm less type A now that I have three kids.
Sally Bisbee: Because they do that to you, right? Okay. It's been, it's been a
Sally Bisbee: blessing of that. I will say that I've let go of a lot of my
Sally Bisbee: type A ness because you just realise that life doesn't happen the way
Sally Bisbee: that you want. You can plan, plan as much as you want and kids,
Sally Bisbee: you know, laugh at that. So. And I think, you know,
Sally Bisbee: all the things of societal norms and societal pressures
Sally Bisbee: and you know, now social media and you see all
Sally Bisbee: these picture perfect families and they got it all together and you're like, you know,
Sally Bisbee: I always tell people, like, people don't post the bad stuff. Like nobody,
Sally Bisbee: nobody has it all together. Right? They just don't. And so it's just finding,
Sally Bisbee: you know, finding what works for you. And, you know, when I
Sally Bisbee: talk to other moms, it's always about, you know, I always tell people it's not
Sally Bisbee: about having a perfect house or perfect life or everything cleaned
Sally Bisbee: up. It's about what works for you that keeps your stress level down and
Sally Bisbee: allows you to be that present mom. And,
Sally Bisbee: you know, I have the, you know, benefits of
Sally Bisbee: really. Everyone knows how fast time goes as the older we get, the
Sally Bisbee: faster time goes. And you know that. But with me having a 22 year old
Sally Bisbee: and then a 9 and a 6 year old, my, my youngest is in kindergarten
Sally Bisbee: and my oldest is weeks away from graduating from college. And so I
Sally Bisbee: have that big gap. And so it just has really given me that,
Sally Bisbee: like, perspective to really just be present to
Sally Bisbee: figure out, like, what do I need to do to simplify my life
Sally Bisbee: so I can really, like, be here to enjoy these little years before I blink
Sally Bisbee: in there. And they're actually out of the house. So there's such an age group
Joanne Lockwood: that they are effectively different generations. Millennial versus
Joanne Lockwood: Gen Z. Yes. Or Gen Alpha even, I guess. Yeah.
Sally Bisbee: I don't even know what they are, but it's. Yeah, they're. There's 15
Sally Bisbee: and a half years between my oldest and my youngest. So it's,
Sally Bisbee: it's a big gap, but. But it's also pretty awesome. You know, I always tell
Sally Bisbee: people, like, it wasn't if I would, if you would have asked me when I
Sally Bisbee: was, you know, teenager if this is how my life would be, I would say,
Sally Bisbee: no way. But it happens how it happened, and it's such a blessing.
Sally Bisbee: My oldest is super, super close with my two youngest. And
Sally Bisbee: just like watching the bond and I think as a parent too, you know, like
Sally Bisbee: having two, you go through that stuff with your first one and then you have
Sally Bisbee: a second one who you're like, wait, now the stuff that I, that worked for
Sally Bisbee: the first one doesn't work for the second one. And then for us, we threw
Sally Bisbee: in that third who's a total. I love her, but she throws everything
Sally Bisbee: out the wind. You're like, nothing is the same for you as it was
Sally Bisbee: for the other two. And so it's just a constant, like, game as
Sally Bisbee: a parent. Right. Figuring out what works and what works for
Sally Bisbee: this kid and what, you know, what, what does this kid need from Me and
Sally Bisbee: what, what do I need? And all those constant things we have to
Sally Bisbee: figure out. I was the eldest of three and my,
Joanne Lockwood: my youngest brother is six years younger than
Joanne Lockwood: me. I would say it took us till I was in my
Joanne Lockwood: late 30s, maybe 40s, to finally get on the
Joanne Lockwood: same wavelength. Because when you were younger and you. I was in my 30s, even
Joanne Lockwood: his 20s, or I was in my 20s, even in his teens. It's really hard
Joanne Lockwood: to create relatable experiences, but once you get past about 35ish,
Joanne Lockwood: then your experiences are kind of, kind of the same, aren't they? You've got the
Joanne Lockwood: same sort of. You're a parent, you're married, you've got a house, you've got commitments,
Joanne Lockwood: you've got all that sort of stuff. So
Joanne Lockwood: is your, as your elders found the challenge of being
Joanne Lockwood: not a surrogate mum, not a surrogate sort of babysitter and, you know, trying to
Joanne Lockwood: resist that, I'll take over and give you freedom or something like that? Was it.
Joanne Lockwood: Are they allowed to be themselves still? Yes. Oh, yes. Yeah.
Sally Bisbee: I mean, my oldest certainly helps. You know,
Sally Bisbee: Easter weekend, she happened to be home from college, so she babysat for us, which
Sally Bisbee: was wonderful. And we're very blessed to have that ability to have her do that.
Sally Bisbee: I also joke to people having little brother and sister is about the
Sally Bisbee: best form of birth control you can have. Because
Sally Bisbee: I'm like, this is real life. It is not cute baby
Sally Bisbee: cuddles and kisses all day long. It is, you
Sally Bisbee: know, kids that have their own opinions and don't always want to listen
Sally Bisbee: and, you know, are annoying at times. And I love
Sally Bisbee: them with all my heart. But kids are kids, right? It's, it's, it's
Sally Bisbee: fun. She gets to. Our oldest gets to see really like real life of
Sally Bisbee: like, what it's like in the throes of being a busy parent
Sally Bisbee: and, you know, they're, they're in sports and all those things that are. Our
Sally Bisbee: schedule is busy all the time. So she, she loves it and
Sally Bisbee: gets, you know, gets to love on them. She certainly is helpful for us,
Sally Bisbee: but she also gets to go do her own thing too. And she's old enough
Sally Bisbee: that if she needs a break and needs to get away from these kids, she
Sally Bisbee: can hop in her car and go do whatever she wants, which is great too.
Joanne Lockwood: So when you help other moms, how do
Joanne Lockwood: they come to you? Are they already in burnout? They're already struggling to cope.
Joanne Lockwood: What's the sort of things that normally triggers them to say, I need some help?
Joanne Lockwood: Is it postpartum Is it. Is it all that? Yeah, I will say,
Sally Bisbee: you know, it's mostly. It's usually moms that have. Have been doing
Sally Bisbee: the mom thing for a little bit. So I really, you know,
Sally Bisbee: my kind of sweet spot is. Is midlife moms, moms that maybe aren't in
Sally Bisbee: the throat. You know, the throes of little, like a toddler and a baby are
Sally Bisbee: a lot, but. But it's all new and. And all that stuff. It's the moms
Sally Bisbee: that have, like, been doing it for a while and are like, something's gotta give,
Sally Bisbee: right? I can't. I can't keep going on living this way. One of the biggest
Sally Bisbee: things moms say to me is like, I never have enough time. I never have
Sally Bisbee: enough time. And I'm like, I get that. I get that. But I also like
Sally Bisbee: to tell people like, I. I own three businesses.
Sally Bisbee: I have three kids. I have a husband who's gone a lot because I let
Sally Bisbee: him go do his hunting and fishing and all his things he loves. And I
Sally Bisbee: still find time for myself every single day. I just have been
Sally Bisbee: intentional about carving out the time and really
Sally Bisbee: making my life to a part where taking care of myself comes
Sally Bisbee: naturally. And that wasn't easy for me. It took time. But it is those
Sally Bisbee: moms that are just like, something's got to give, and I can't keep going on
Sally Bisbee: this way of just feeling constantly overwhelmed and, you know, so
Sally Bisbee: it's just great to be able to. You know, so many of my moms that
Sally Bisbee: I've talked to are like, you know, it's just great to have somebody to talk
Sally Bisbee: to that, like, gives you permission that it's okay to take care of yourself.
Sally Bisbee: I think as moms, we all know, like, we're supposed to take care of ourselves,
Sally Bisbee: and, yes, we need to, but moms are so good at pouring
Sally Bisbee: their all into their kids and their family that we so often forget to
Sally Bisbee: take care of ourselves and put our own needs first. And I always tell people,
Sally Bisbee: as cliche as it sounds, you know, you can't. You can't pour from an
Sally Bisbee: empty cup, right? Like, we. We have to take care of ourselves first.
Sally Bisbee: And when we do that, we're better able to care for our kids
Sally Bisbee: and our spouse and all those around us that we love. And I just love
Sally Bisbee: being able to help moms see that and realise that they're worth
Sally Bisbee: that. Is that the kind of biological imperative, if you like the
Joanne Lockwood: nature of being a mum, that you have to be that
Joanne Lockwood: the person that takes all of the weight of the family on their shoulders and
Joanne Lockwood: feels they're a failure if they leave a dirty plate or if
Joanne Lockwood: they. The child isn't self pressure. Often people
Joanne Lockwood: often are. Well, I suppose you do get judged by others, don't you?
Joanne Lockwood: You're a bad parent, you're a bad mum, you're whatever I don't want to be.
Joanne Lockwood: I don't want my friends to think I'm a bad bum. So you're all these
Joanne Lockwood: pressures there all the time, isn't it? Yes. Yeah. And I mean
Sally Bisbee: I think it's so much self pressure, I think, I mean
Sally Bisbee: I think that self. Sometimes there's judgement from people. I also
Sally Bisbee: tell people, you know, at my age, which most of the
Sally Bisbee: moms I hang around, I'm 44, I don't mind saying that. But you know, being
Sally Bisbee: this age, you kind of get to that point where you're like, I don't, I
Sally Bisbee: don't care what other people think. Like if, if you're going to judge me, that's
Sally Bisbee: on you. But it is, it is just that pressure of, you know,
Sally Bisbee: moms want to. We feel like we need to pour in our everything
Sally Bisbee: to the kids, we got to take care of them, we have to. It has
Sally Bisbee: to be perfect. It has to. And you know, it. It took me a long
Sally Bisbee: time to get to this point where I am now, but it really is in
Sally Bisbee: the last five or so years that I was like, wait, I have
Sally Bisbee: a husband who's amazing. My husband is amazing. I love him, he's a
Sally Bisbee: wonderful guy. But he's a guy and he doesn't.
Sally Bisbee: Things don't click the same as as a mom. I think there's this difference of
Sally Bisbee: how men and women are wired, of how we think and care for people. But
Sally Bisbee: he's very willing to help. And one of the things I finally realised
Sally Bisbee: that he and I sat down and had a big talk about was
Sally Bisbee: like, this is our family and this is our house
Sally Bisbee: and why, why am I doing so much of this stuff and
Sally Bisbee: he's not? And because. And it wasn't that he didn't want to, it was just
Sally Bisbee: that I did it all because as a mom I think we just feel like
Sally Bisbee: we need to do the laundry and the dishes and all the things. I
Sally Bisbee: need to start passing off some of that stuff to my husband who was very
Sally Bisbee: willing to help. And so that's another thing I really help moms with is just
Sally Bisbee: seeing that need that we feel like we need to do. It all
Sally Bisbee: is on us. And the only person who can change that is also us. And
Sally Bisbee: we need to, you know, ask for help and delegate and
Sally Bisbee: simple things like my husband now does the dishes every single day,
Sally Bisbee: I do all the laundry, but he puts all the laundry away and
Sally Bisbee: just divvying up those things to realise that even though there's
Sally Bisbee: still those things of like, you feel as a mom that you should be doing
Sally Bisbee: it all and you should be able to do it all, it's like, well, it's
Sally Bisbee: not realistic. How do you work full time, care for the kids, keep up on
Sally Bisbee: the house, find time for yourself? Like, it's just, it's not realistic to do
Sally Bisbee: it all. So I think learning to let go of some of that
Sally Bisbee: need of perfection and needing to do it all is, is the biggest
Sally Bisbee: move moms can take to really better their lives. You
Joanne Lockwood: said, you said your age. So I'm not outing you from an age. No, I'm
Sally Bisbee: totally open. I'm 60. I'm 60. So awesome. I grew up, I grew up in
Joanne Lockwood: a world where my mum was a stay at home, full
Joanne Lockwood: time mother, homemaker. Me too. And so
Joanne Lockwood: we've been brought up in an era where that's kind of the, the plan and
Joanne Lockwood: the expectation, but the realism today and probably many of the mums
Joanne Lockwood: you, you help have also grown up in a world where mums were full
Joanne Lockwood: time mums, stay at home homemakers. So that's not the reality anymore
Joanne Lockwood: is that we need to have dual incomes. We need, and also, even if we
Joanne Lockwood: don't need the money, we want a different passion and purpose. We want our own
Joanne Lockwood: lives, we want our own careers. So we're trying,
Joanne Lockwood: we're trying to have everything. We're trying to have our own life, our own passion,
Joanne Lockwood: our own careers, our own friends and be an amazing mum.
Joanne Lockwood: That's where the best, where the conflict happens, isn't it? Yeah, so much. Yes.
Sally Bisbee: And I think, I mean that is a huge thing. I was, my mom was
Sally Bisbee: a stay at home mom and my dad owned a business and worked crazy hours
Sally Bisbee: and all that stuff. And so I look at like, well my, my mom did
Sally Bisbee: it all. She cooked and cleaned and made, you know, did the
Sally Bisbee: laundry and brought us to school and all those things where my dad
Sally Bisbee: worked and made the money and you know, now it is, it's a, it's a
Sally Bisbee: different world. And I always laugh like I'm, I'm the least feminist person there
Sally Bisbee: is. I'm all about girls having strength and doing their own thing.
Sally Bisbee: But I, but I think that there's, there's just that difference now too of
Sally Bisbee: women are out there and we work and we have our own passions and all
Sally Bisbee: that stuff. And I think that there is a big rewiring that needs to
Sally Bisbee: happen in our brains to know that when you're both working, why is,
Sally Bisbee: why is it that you both work full time, but then all this stuff still
Sally Bisbee: falls on the mom, right? And I think again, a lot of us is that
Sally Bisbee: we just do it. Like, I look at, you know, mine and my husband's
Sally Bisbee: relationship, and I think, well, why would he think he needs to
Sally Bisbee: do X, Y, Z? Because I just automatically do it. And so
Sally Bisbee: he doesn't want to step on my toes because he knows I already do that.
Sally Bisbee: Well, he's not going to do it unless if I ask or mention, like, hey,
Sally Bisbee: it'd be super great if you could start emptying the dishwasher every day. He's like,
Sally Bisbee: oh, I'd be happy to do that if that's what, you know, that's what
Sally Bisbee: would help. Like, great. You know, he's so great about it. But I think
Sally Bisbee: just. We just do. We feel that, like, well, our moms did it all, we
Sally Bisbee: should be able to do it all, but we forget that factor in that, like,
Sally Bisbee: our moms were not working full time while also doing it all. Right,
Joanne Lockwood: so do you think part of the problem for that is a failure to communicate
Joanne Lockwood: with your. Your partner, your husband, your wife, and actually
Joanne Lockwood: saying, this is how I feel. This is where I am right now. And often
Joanne Lockwood: when you have this communication, you must go, what if what you said?
Joanne Lockwood: And then you expect the other person to be a mind reader and it's, why
Joanne Lockwood: didn't you just step in? Well, I thought you were coping, etc. Yes. Oh,
Sally Bisbee: a hundred percent, 100%. I find that
Sally Bisbee: with many of the moms that I talk to, I know it was something
Sally Bisbee: for my husband and I for a long time.
Sally Bisbee: Communication is a huge thing. And, you know, I always tell people,
Sally Bisbee: my husband and I sit down once every a few months, four or five months.
Sally Bisbee: We'll just sit down and have a real come to Jesus talk.
Sally Bisbee: Here's where I'm at. Here's what I'm feeling. And, you know, we've talked a
Sally Bisbee: lot about just the differences of, you know, we hear a lot
Sally Bisbee: about it these days, the mental load of motherhood and what we
Sally Bisbee: take on. And I say, you know what? At any given time, my brain is
Sally Bisbee: going with a million things. What do the kids have? What do they
Sally Bisbee: now in, you know, in Minnesota, it's almost summer, so it's like, oh, do they
Sally Bisbee: have all their Summer clothes because we switched from snow to kneading shorts. So do
Sally Bisbee: they have clothes? What sports do they have? What? You know, all those things constantly
Sally Bisbee: going through my brain that my husband does not have going through his brain
Sally Bisbee: on any given day. And so just sitting down and having
Sally Bisbee: those talks with my husband has been very helpful of, like, hey,
Sally Bisbee: I'm just going to download and tell you a little bit of, like, what is
Sally Bisbee: constantly going through my head. And here's some things
Sally Bisbee: that would be super helpful if you could take off my plate, because
Sally Bisbee: I'm already doing all these things. I have this. And he's like, great,
Sally Bisbee: that's great. And, you know, at our house, I always laugh like, I'm super type
Sally Bisbee: A, so I like things done a certain way. So my husband, who's very, like,
Sally Bisbee: laid back and go with the flow, he also. It's
Sally Bisbee: always a game of, like, you know, he doesn't want to, like,
Sally Bisbee: step in and do something that I might be like, oh, you didn't do that,
Sally Bisbee: right, honey? Which I've also learned to let go of a lot of. But, you
Sally Bisbee: know, just finding that communication. And I do I really talk to moms about,
Sally Bisbee: you know, does your. Does your spouse even know how you feel? Do they know
Sally Bisbee: that you're doing all this? Your husband might work full time, you might work full
Sally Bisbee: time, but why are you working full time coming home and doing all the stuff
Sally Bisbee: with the kids and all the stuff for the house while your husband comes home
Sally Bisbee: and doesn't do that? Like, does. Does he even know how you feel? And they're
Sally Bisbee: like, well, he should. And you're like, well, have you talked about it? Like,
Sally Bisbee: yeah. And, you know, I always look back to. I had. I had a friend
Sally Bisbee: years ago that she used to get mad that her boyfriend
Sally Bisbee: didn't just know what she wanted. And I was like, okay, well, here's.
Sally Bisbee: Here's what you can look at. You can say, I'm bummed that he didn't just
Sally Bisbee: read my mind, which he's not going to do, or you could tell him
Sally Bisbee: what you need, and then. And then if he doesn't do something with it, then
Sally Bisbee: you. Then you have a right to be bummed about that. Right? If you tell
Sally Bisbee: them your needs and they're not being met, then you could be sad. But I'm
Sally Bisbee: like, isn't it just easier to say, like, here's what I would love if. If
Sally Bisbee: you could help with. Or here's what I'd love if you could do. And then
Sally Bisbee: they do it, Then you're Like, great. That works great yourself. Yeah. I think there's
Joanne Lockwood: also a, I think we touched on it is a desire not to step on
Joanne Lockwood: the other person's toes. You know, if you've got a routine, if you, if you
Joanne Lockwood: go and do it your way, as you say, you're a type a person, you
Joanne Lockwood: go, actually, you've done really good. But I'm, I'm now stressing because that's not the
Joanne Lockwood: way I would have done it. Yes. Yeah. You haven't quite dressed the children
Joanne Lockwood: in the way I would address them. I wouldn't have put those socks on them,
Joanne Lockwood: you know, so suddenly you're, you're inheriting more stress because you want
Joanne Lockwood: to control the plan, don't you? Yes. And I think, you know,
Sally Bisbee: one of the things that, that I learned so a little, little also backstory to
Sally Bisbee: me. I was a single mom. I had my oldest my senior year of College.
Sally Bisbee: I was 22 when my oldest was born and oops as I hit my mic.
Sally Bisbee: And we got married when My daughter was
Sally Bisbee: 11. And so I was a single mom for many years. And then my husband
Sally Bisbee: came in and he adopted my daughter and we had two more. And
Sally Bisbee: it's, it's all awesome and great, but it was, I was
Sally Bisbee: very set in my ways and used to being it just my daughter and I,
Sally Bisbee: so everything was my way. And then he came in and I had to learn
Sally Bisbee: how to parent more kids with having a spouse. And so it was a thing.
Sally Bisbee: And so one of the big things for me that I constantly remind myself of
Sally Bisbee: is he's not doing it wrong. He just does it different than I do,
Sally Bisbee: which doesn't make it wrong. You know, he, he puts away all
Sally Bisbee: the laundry and still to this day, bless his heart, I love him. He puts
Sally Bisbee: some of my daughter's clothes in the wrong drawers. And she's six, so she
Sally Bisbee: calls them out on it every time. She's like, dad, why are my
Sally Bisbee: pyjamas in my T shirt drawer? And I was like, hey, like he's putting
Sally Bisbee: clothes away and mom's happy about it. So just, just switch it. It's all right.
Sally Bisbee: You can fix it. You know where they go. So I think just, you know,
Sally Bisbee: again, the type A ness. I think as a mom or as a
Sally Bisbee: parent or grown up or anything, like just learning to let go of some of
Sally Bisbee: that. That once you have kids and a spouse, like, things are not going
Sally Bisbee: to be 100% your way anymore. And the greatest thing you can do is
Sally Bisbee: just learn how to let go of some of that need to have it all
Sally Bisbee: be perfect or just your way and know that if you're going to ask for
Sally Bisbee: help, you're going to have to be okay with it being done. Maybe a little
Sally Bisbee: bit different way than you would do it. Yeah, completely. Completely. Yeah. I was just
Joanne Lockwood: thinking there that, you know, it is this sort of not wanting to
Joanne Lockwood: overstep or not fully understanding what the other person's doing, feeling the other
Joanne Lockwood: person's in control when really their feet are flapping
Joanne Lockwood: under the water. They just look like a calm swan on top of the water.
Joanne Lockwood: So yeah, it's a challenge. And I guess again,
Joanne Lockwood: without putting words into your mouth, you get 40s
Joanne Lockwood: and your body changes again, doesn't it? And you have other needs and other
Joanne Lockwood: challenges with perimenopause, menopause, which also
Joanne Lockwood: affects how you interact with each other as husband and wife
Joanne Lockwood: or even the children. Yeah. And that's another dynamic that people don't realise that
Joanne Lockwood: when it hits you it really changes dynamics between
Joanne Lockwood: people. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure I will say I'm lucky enough
Sally Bisbee: that I knock on wood somewhere. I haven't experienced a lot of that yet. I'm
Sally Bisbee: like super careful that I won't. But it is at my age it is talked
Sally Bisbee: about all the time. All my girlfriends talk about it. So it's a very common
Sally Bisbee: topic of conversation at this age. But for sure, stuff, stuff
Sally Bisbee: changes. And I think even just you know, outside of that,
Sally Bisbee: I think, you know, constantly as you grow in age, right.
Sally Bisbee: Stuff just changes in life. You realise what your priorities are
Sally Bisbee: and where your time and energy should be and stuff that mattered to you in
Sally Bisbee: your 20 or 30s maybe doesn't matter as much in your 40s. You know,
Sally Bisbee: I always tell people like I've always been a person that I haven't, I've
Sally Bisbee: never super cared a lot what people think. Like I'm not, I'm not
Sally Bisbee: affected by like, I don't need to wear name brand things to be cool or
Sally Bisbee: any of that stuff. I want people to like me and you know, those common
Sally Bisbee: things. But I think something about turning 40 was a really like eye
Sally Bisbee: opener to me of like, you know what? This is my life. Like I,
Sally Bisbee: I don't need to live for somebody else. I need to live for me and
Sally Bisbee: what makes me happy and what works for me and my family and just
Sally Bisbee: really, you know, living that life that
Sally Bisbee: like works for me, what, how I live my life might not
Sally Bisbee: work for somebody else. And I understand that, you know, a lot of my friends,
Sally Bisbee: I've been with my husband for 14 years and he
Sally Bisbee: is gone a lot. Hunting and fishing and people like, how, how do you do
Sally Bisbee: that? How do you let him be gone? I was like, oh, that's actually why
Sally Bisbee: I married him. Like, I love that he has a passion that like,
Sally Bisbee: lights his fire. Like, lights his soul on fire. Like, he loves that and
Sally Bisbee: it makes him so happy. And I love having like, I'm
Sally Bisbee: super independent, so I like having that me time or just time with the kids
Sally Bisbee: to go do what I want, but just really, you know, doing what works for
Sally Bisbee: you. Right? And. But back to that communication with spouse.
Sally Bisbee: I think that, that, that is a huge thing for every aspect of life, really
Sally Bisbee: is, you know, letting them know what's going on, what are you feeling,
Sally Bisbee: what, you know, and it doesn't have to be a big sit
Sally Bisbee: down, one hour deep conversation. It can just be those,
Sally Bisbee: you know, my husband and I have gotten really good of. You know, we try
Sally Bisbee: to have family dinner as often as we can and just really like, how was
Sally Bisbee: your day? What's going on? You know, is there anything you need from me? Just
Sally Bisbee: having those simple conversations really
Sally Bisbee: is, is a game changer. And not only parenting, but, you know,
Sally Bisbee: that whole effective marriage thing and making sure that, you know, I always tell my
Sally Bisbee: husband, I'm like, I'm only doing this once, so we're gonna, you know, make
Sally Bisbee: sure this works forever. And I'd like to still like you when the kids get
Sally Bisbee: out of the house. So having that communication is a big thing.
Joanne Lockwood: It is. And I, I remember when our, our son,
Joanne Lockwood: the last of our two to leave and move out, even though he was
Joanne Lockwood: 25, I think 22, 23, 24, 25. He was quite a,
Joanne Lockwood: an adult when he left. So there's still, there's still a kind of an
Joanne Lockwood: emptiness in the. We had an apartment
Joanne Lockwood: at the time. My wife not worrying about buying him
Joanne Lockwood: pies for his food or not having to strip his bed, or not having
Joanne Lockwood: to this, that and the other. There's a whole load of things you realise you're
Joanne Lockwood: just not doing and then you're sitting there watching telly in the evening and you
Joanne Lockwood: feel. Even though he never spend time with us, he was always playing
Joanne Lockwood: on his Xbox, his Game Boy or something in his room,
Joanne Lockwood: does not start having his heartbeat. Yeah. 10Ft away from you. Just.
Joanne Lockwood: There's a real emptiness. And it took us longer than we
Joanne Lockwood: thought. It was a sadness. It was just. You just feel that
Joanne Lockwood: lack of human vibration, don't you? Or the energy. For sure. Yeah. Definitely
Sally Bisbee: a readjustment. And I think you know, I think that's one of my big things,
Sally Bisbee: too, of something I really work with moms with right now is.
Sally Bisbee: Is remembering that you are something outside of being a mom.
Sally Bisbee: A mom is part of you, but it's not who you are. It's part of
Sally Bisbee: your identity, but it's not your whole identity. And I think so often as
Sally Bisbee: moms, we get so lost in. We're a mom, and we
Sally Bisbee: have to do all the mom things, and we have to. And, you know, that's
Sally Bisbee: great. And it's a season of our life, a long season. Right. But you also
Sally Bisbee: want to remember who you are so that when they do finally
Sally Bisbee: leave the house, that you remember who you are and what you like outside of
Sally Bisbee: that. And then I also think that whole thing, you know, with your spouse, like,
Sally Bisbee: that's something big I talk to people about. And,
Sally Bisbee: you know, one of my big things, my. My parents are a week
Sally Bisbee: away, eight days, I think, but a week away from selling. Celebrating their
Sally Bisbee: 48th wedding anniversary, which is so amazing. And
Sally Bisbee: they have a great marriage. They love each other. It's, you
Sally Bisbee: know, far from perfect. I mean, they certainly have had moments, you
Sally Bisbee: know, 48 years with the same person. Yeah, you butt heads at times,
Sally Bisbee: right? But I just always tell my mom, like, I. I want that. I want
Sally Bisbee: to make sure, like, you know, my parents, they work
Sally Bisbee: together, they live together, all those things, they really enjoy each other's company. And I
Sally Bisbee: really want that for my husband and I, you know, we. We really do still
Sally Bisbee: enjoy each other's company. But I think that's such a hard thing in the.
Sally Bisbee: When you're in the depths, like the throes of parenting and little kids and
Sally Bisbee: stuff, that sometimes that. That marriage part gets so pushed on the back burner,
Sally Bisbee: and you're like, well, then. Then what happens when those kids are out and
Sally Bisbee: you are finding your footing again, right, with that. And, like, if you can figure
Sally Bisbee: out now how to make sure and nurture that marriage and
Sally Bisbee: that have that open communication and all those things. I think it's such a
Sally Bisbee: benefit to setting yourself up for when those kids
Sally Bisbee: leave. I mean, I think you'll still miss them, right? Because that's just. That's
Sally Bisbee: just something, having them not in your house anymore and not there to just
Sally Bisbee: check in on every single day. But I think those things are
Sally Bisbee: such. Such important things to remember, to really remember when you're in the depths
Sally Bisbee: of. Of the parenting, in the little years, to really keep on top of
Sally Bisbee: that stuff. So you're good to go when they do Move out finally. Well, I
Joanne Lockwood: think I've noticed, you know, in my life, as I say, I've 60, I've had.
Joanne Lockwood: I've had a fair bit of 23 years of being an
Joanne Lockwood: adult, I suppose. 43 years of being an adult. No, 60. Oh,
Joanne Lockwood: God. A long time being an adult. I've even lost it. I can't work it
Joanne Lockwood: out. 43 years of being an adult. Yeah. Anyway,
Joanne Lockwood: a long time. I forgot what I was gonna say now. Blimey, I'm having that
Joanne Lockwood: senior moment, so. Yeah, well, I think what I've learned, what I've learned over those
Joanne Lockwood: years is you don't realise how full you are
Joanne Lockwood: until you. And until you allow
Joanne Lockwood: the load to come off. Because sometimes you're so over capacity,
Joanne Lockwood: you're 20%, 30%, 40% over capacity, reducing by
Joanne Lockwood: 5%, you're still over capacity. So sometimes you got to strip right back
Joanne Lockwood: to realise how busy you actually were. And that's the challenge, isn't it? Because we
Joanne Lockwood: got to let go of stuff to realise that we have to let
Joanne Lockwood: go of stuff. And I remember doing some coaching with a person in business saying
Joanne Lockwood: that they were trying to carve out time. They had their boss demanding this, they
Joanne Lockwood: put people putting stuff in their diary. This, that and the other. I said, you
Joanne Lockwood: need to create this firebreak where you can actually take control of your
Joanne Lockwood: schedule. If you can't do that, you can never see
Joanne Lockwood: what's really going through your head at any one time.
Sally Bisbee: So important. And that, I mean, that's a big thing that I did in
Sally Bisbee: my own life. And now I help other moms figure out, you know, my, my
Sally Bisbee: whole thing is how, how to simplify your life as a mom,
Sally Bisbee: as a parent, for sure. But as a mom, like, there's there's so much stuff
Sally Bisbee: that we take on and there's so much unnecessary stuff we
Sally Bisbee: take on. You know, I always tell people, like, what. What are the things causing
Sally Bisbee: you stress? And what, what can you a do about them? What can
Sally Bisbee: you let go of? I mean, you know, his joke. As, as silly as it
Sally Bisbee: is, laundry is one of the things that gets talked about the most. You're like,
Sally Bisbee: okay, could you. I mean, sure, in a dream world, could you like pay
Sally Bisbee: somebody else to do your laundry? Sure. But not many people do that. And
Sally Bisbee: I, you know, know whatever. But I think, you know, for me it's
Sally Bisbee: a lot of. It's acceptance. Right. The laundry is always going to be there. So
Sally Bisbee: figure out a system. You know, for me, I do one load of laundry every
Sally Bisbee: day. That way I don't spend my weekends doing laundry. I just keep on
Sally Bisbee: top of it. Again, my husband puts away the laundry. So
Sally Bisbee: that's a big thing of like learning, okay, I can wash it, dry it,
Sally Bisbee: fold it. He puts it away. It's great, it's done.
Sally Bisbee: I think acceptance of some of those things, like, okay, this is the stage of
Sally Bisbee: life I'm in. There's a lot of laundry. I gotta do it, move on.
Sally Bisbee: But also things like schedule and stuff. I look at a lot of people who
Sally Bisbee: just have crazy busy schedules. And I think
Sally Bisbee: as a mom too, we think that, that, that busyness, constantly being
Sally Bisbee: busy is like a sign of like, we got this, we're doing this. And you're
Sally Bisbee: like, no, like, where's. Where's the white space in your life? Right? We have to
Sally Bisbee: create those. Those down moments and having
Sally Bisbee: that space that we can take care of ourself
Sally Bisbee: and have those moments to breathe and, you know, not
Sally Bisbee: over committing to things is such a huge thing. And then
Joanne Lockwood: suddenly the kids get a bit older. You become a soccer mom, you become a.
Joanne Lockwood: A base, a basketball mom or whatever. You're suddenly traipsing around, driving
Joanne Lockwood: them here, driving them there. Yes. And all the
Joanne Lockwood: extracurricular mum stuff or dad stuff. Dad's. Dad
Joanne Lockwood: did some of it as well. But, yeah, you suddenly take on label, don't you?
Sally Bisbee: Yes. Yeah. And I mean, you know, that's great
Sally Bisbee: too. I mean, I look at. We. We grew up, you know, in. In
Sally Bisbee: Minnesota, hockey is a big thing. So my older and younger brother both played
Sally Bisbee: hockey. I actually played hockey real briefly. Turns out I'm not super competitive.
Sally Bisbee: So it wasn't. I love the game, but not the competitiveness of it.
Sally Bisbee: But, you know, my. My parents were hockey parents and they're like, best friends were
Sally Bisbee: all hockey parents, and they love that. And so I don't think,
Sally Bisbee: you know, having those new identities is ever a bad.
Sally Bisbee: Doesn't have to be a bad thing. But it's. I think it's just important
Sally Bisbee: to, you know, I look at some of. I have friends that have,
Sally Bisbee: you know, kids that are in five sports at a time. And you're like, how
Sally Bisbee: do you have a moment for yourself or your marriage
Sally Bisbee: or anything when you are just constantly running kids to sports all the
Sally Bisbee: time, you know, So I think that sometimes it's important to look too of like,
Sally Bisbee: okay, what's our capacity for? Okay, our kids
Sally Bisbee: can do two sports at once because the schedules. The schedules work.
Sally Bisbee: And, and maybe volunteering for the event
Sally Bisbee: that you really want to volunteer for is just not in the books right now
Sally Bisbee: because of knowing your capacity and needing some of that just
Sally Bisbee: space to have some downtime in your life. I think is.
Sally Bisbee: Is such a important thing for, for us to remember just
Sally Bisbee: to. To not over schedule ourselves. I'm gonna say mums
Joanne Lockwood: come to you. You know, when parents come to you. It doesn't have to be.
Joanne Lockwood: Could be a dad, it could be a mum, it could be someone. However you
Joanne Lockwood: want to describe yourself. What do they really want to do that they
Joanne Lockwood: haven't got time for? Because you said at the beginning, they come because they haven't
Joanne Lockwood: got time. I haven't got time. I've got time. Time for me is always about
Joanne Lockwood: priority. So what, what can't they prioritise
Joanne Lockwood: in their life? What's the biggest thing that go, I want time to do this.
Joanne Lockwood: What is it? Yeah, I don't know that I have an answer for that. I
Sally Bisbee: mean, it's definitely that. There's never enough time to get everything
Sally Bisbee: done. You know, it's. I have this to do list and I can never get
Sally Bisbee: through it. And then I also know that I'm supposed
Sally Bisbee: to fit in self care and people are like, I don't.
Sally Bisbee: I can't even imagine the last time that I've taken, you know, a
Sally Bisbee: day for myself. I always. I always laugh. One of my former
Sally Bisbee: life coaching clients came to me and she was. She was working
Sally Bisbee: crazy hours. Her husband is.
Sally Bisbee: Oh, okay, there's one of those. Sorry, someone's at the door.
Sally Bisbee: I thought I wouldn't be bothered at. All, but that's
Joanne Lockwood: okay. Okay. We're all right. I thought it was. I thought it was my husband.
Sally Bisbee: It's. It's not. Some. Somebody dropped. We're just talk. We're just
Joanne Lockwood: talking about him. It's okay. Don't worry. It's fine. I also run a craft business,
Sally Bisbee: so people drop stuff off when my friend stops. So that is what that is.
Sally Bisbee: Um, my former
Sally Bisbee: coaching client, her husband was a fire chief, so he worked, you know,
Sally Bisbee: 24 hour shifts and he was gone a lot. She was working crazy hours. And.
Sally Bisbee: And so one of the things really was just that teaching her to put better
Sally Bisbee: boundaries around her time and what she spent it on and all that stuff. And
Sally Bisbee: so I really encouraged her to just. I'm like, find one night
Sally Bisbee: that you can go to dinner with a girlfriend. And she's like, I
Sally Bisbee: just. I don't like that sounds hard. I'm like, okay, like, let's just. Just one
Sally Bisbee: night, you know, Two hours. It doesn't even have to be at bedtime. And like
Sally Bisbee: a week later she sent me a text and said, I, I just booked a
Sally Bisbee: trip, we're going to Florida. So instead of just a one night dinner,
Sally Bisbee: she booked a like four day girls trip. Which was great, but really just like
Sally Bisbee: being intentional of, of finding that time, I think is, I think
Sally Bisbee: finding time for yourself is, is one of the biggest things that moms come to
Sally Bisbee: me with of like, like I can't stay on top of everything I'm supposed to
Sally Bisbee: do. Raising the kids and laundry and keeping the house clean and decluttering
Sally Bisbee: and all the things, much less find time for myself. So it's super fun
Sally Bisbee: just to be able to walk alongside moms and be like, okay,
Sally Bisbee: I can look at your life from an outside view and be like, tell me
Sally Bisbee: what you have going on. And here you know, why, like
Sally Bisbee: explain to me, you know, what's, what's the importance of why you're putting your time
Sally Bisbee: in over here and, and them seeing like, maybe that's not where I should be
Sally Bisbee: putting my time. And that's right, I could gain back some time and actually use
Sally Bisbee: that time for something I love that refreshes me and fills me up
Sally Bisbee: again. Go back to I mentioned earlier, is it, is it nature or nurture or
Joanne Lockwood: just being a mum? I read something somewhere, a magazine or
Joanne Lockwood: online or something popped up and it talked about when, when a
Joanne Lockwood: woman sees a bit of mess in the toilet,
Joanne Lockwood: they immediately go, germs must clean it. It has to be down now, now, now.
Joanne Lockwood: A man goes, it's all right, it's fine, it'll keep. And so
Joanne Lockwood: is there a different sense of urgency? And again, I don't want
Joanne Lockwood: to stereotype here. I'm not trying to say that men are this and women are
Joanne Lockwood: this, but is that sometimes what happens where
Joanne Lockwood: your husband, a man may not see the problem, but a woman, the
Joanne Lockwood: mom sees it and thinks I have to do that now. 100%.
Sally Bisbee: I mean there just is, I think there is just, there's
Sally Bisbee: just a difference on how people see it. And you know, again,
Sally Bisbee: I think that that's something I love about being married to my husband,
Sally Bisbee: is that I try sometimes to see it through his eyes. I'm like,
Sally Bisbee: okay, why do I like feel that? Like, oh, it like
Sally Bisbee: works me up and it has to be done now where, where he can just
Sally Bisbee: like look at it and walk by and it doesn't bother him. I'm like, like
Sally Bisbee: I would give anything to like not be bothered by some of those things.
Sally Bisbee: Like that's, that's an amazing thing to have, but I do. I
Sally Bisbee: just think that, you know, I think each. You know, and maybe man and woman,
Sally Bisbee: but also just each person I think is bothered differently. I have. I have a
Sally Bisbee: real good girlfriend who is not type A, and her house
Sally Bisbee: is messy. Every time I go there and I walk in and she's
Sally Bisbee: like, oh, you. You must just judge me every time you walk in here. And
Sally Bisbee: I'm like, honestly, I don't. I said, part of me is honestly jealous that you
Sally Bisbee: can live like this. Because she's just accepted that that's how
Sally Bisbee: her life is. She's got two boys, they're busy. She's just accepted
Sally Bisbee: and she's okay with it. I'm like, I physically couldn't do this. Like, my skin
Sally Bisbee: would crawl. Like, it just. The feeling inside me is
Sally Bisbee: so horrible that I couldn't do it. But it. But because I'm so type A,
Sally Bisbee: I can't imagine being so type B that you could just be okay with the
Sally Bisbee: mass. And I think, you know, that's. I have a degree in psychology because I
Sally Bisbee: love how the brain is wired and how everyone thinks differently
Sally Bisbee: and does things differently. And it just fascinates me in that sense of like, everyone
Sally Bisbee: does things differently. And just because, I mean, my house is always
Sally Bisbee: sparkling clean at all times. And I've accepted that that's okay. That's.
Sally Bisbee: That's how I want it. And it's not because I feel like it needs to
Sally Bisbee: be like that or I think that that makes me better or anything. It's just
Sally Bisbee: what makes me happy, and it's how I like it. But I don't ever expect
Sally Bisbee: that from anybody else. You know, I think it's for self. You know, when I.
Joanne Lockwood: When I talk to my wife about things sometimes, or she talks back to me
Joanne Lockwood: or whatever, if I was to say to her, it's okay, just leave it, let
Joanne Lockwood: it go. What that's not doing is understanding
Joanne Lockwood: her imperatives. Me saying,
Joanne Lockwood: let that go, leave it, don't worry about it, doesn't reduce the stress levels,
Joanne Lockwood: doesn't reduce the anxiety, doesn't. So what we're trying to do here really is when
Joanne Lockwood: you talk about how to simplify someone's life or
Joanne Lockwood: overcome the overwhelm it's trying to de. Trigger some of these
Joanne Lockwood: things that create this high level of anxiety in people. Is that. Is that what
Joanne Lockwood: you make them more manageable? Yes. Yeah, definitely.
Sally Bisbee: Definitely. And I think, you know, again, like I said, I think for
Sally Bisbee: me, helping people figure out how. How
Sally Bisbee: to let go of some of it, you know, it's hard. I think some of
Sally Bisbee: it is just naturally how we're wired. Right? Something that bothers me might
Sally Bisbee: not bother you. And, and so I mean that again, that's
Sally Bisbee: a great example. What you just said about you and your wife is that that's
Sally Bisbee: something for my husband and I that we've talked about. Like, I get this doesn't
Sally Bisbee: bother you, but it does bother me. And so how, how can we find like
Sally Bisbee: a middle ground where, like, just because it's my
Sally Bisbee: thing and it's not your thing doesn't mean it has to go my way. Because
Sally Bisbee: if it doesn't bother you, then, you know,
Sally Bisbee: it's finding that middle ground. But also, I think, understanding and,
Sally Bisbee: you know, I. It's just a constant, right? It's a constant
Sally Bisbee: ebb and flow of what, what works and figuring it all out. I think
Joanne Lockwood: you said it earlier, it's trying to learn
Joanne Lockwood: what matters to the other person, what doesn't matter. The other person,
Joanne Lockwood: what needs to be a big deal and really what doesn't. If you, if you
Joanne Lockwood: want to load the dishwasher your way, it still washes the dishes. It doesn't matter
Joanne Lockwood: if the glasses aren't all the right way up and the spoons are in the
Joanne Lockwood: correct way order. And it doesn't matter. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
Joanne Lockwood: So it's not taking on the, the extra anxiety of trying
Joanne Lockwood: to fit the other person into your definition of right and wrong as well, isn't
Joanne Lockwood: it? Yes. That. That is huge. One of my
Sally Bisbee: favourite lines, my mom has always told me, is pick your battles.
Sally Bisbee: Which is a lot about the kids, but, but also with, with the spouse
Sally Bisbee: too, right? She, early on to being married, she said to me, pick your
Sally Bisbee: battles. Figure out, figure out the things that matter to you that
Sally Bisbee: like, yep, you really want things done this way because of xyz.
Sally Bisbee: And let him know and make sure he's on the same page. Other things, the
Sally Bisbee: dishwasher per se, not being loaded correctly, Let it go. The dishes are
Sally Bisbee: being cleaned. I'm not doing it. It took it off my plate. Great, right?
Sally Bisbee: And so that is one of those things that I really learned and I try
Sally Bisbee: to help other people see that too. Like just because they do it differently or
Sally Bisbee: not the same way. You know, people say, oh, like I asked him to wash
Sally Bisbee: towels and he washed them, but he folded them wrong. And you're like, well, it's,
Sally Bisbee: it's a towel. Is it clean and put away in the linen closet? They're like,
Sally Bisbee: yeah. And you're like, then it, it shouldn't matter. Right. Like if that's where your
Sally Bisbee: energy is going, then we probably have bigger issues that we need
Sally Bisbee: to work on of figuring out where, where is your stress and anxiety
Sally Bisbee: being focused on. I just, you know, better ways to spend your energy than being
Sally Bisbee: upset that something like that isn't done correct correctly. Yeah. One of the things I
Joanne Lockwood: often say to people is you in a marriage you can't always be right and
Joanne Lockwood: happy. Sometimes they're incompatible. So you don't. Once
Joanne Lockwood: you realise you don't have to be right. Yeah, you can be, you can be
Joanne Lockwood: a lot happier for sure. Yeah. I mean it is, it's. It's
Sally Bisbee: that constant ebb and flow and compromising and figuring all those
Sally Bisbee: things out and makes it run a lot smoother when you can figure that part
Sally Bisbee: out for sure. Do you think you're obviously got kids of different ages,
Joanne Lockwood: children of different ages. Do you think they're learning a new
Joanne Lockwood: way as pre parents? Maybe they'll be parents one day in their life. Are you
Joanne Lockwood: bringing them up in a way that teaches the skills you're
Joanne Lockwood: talking about now? I hope so. I hope so. I mean
Sally Bisbee: that is a big thing. Somebody once said to me, I
Sally Bisbee: can't remember exactly but you know, it's our job to
Sally Bisbee: raise our kids not to stay home but to,
Sally Bisbee: you know, to spread their wings and fly right to. The thing is you want
Sally Bisbee: them to leave the house and be good people in the world. And I think,
Sally Bisbee: you know, it's fun Talking to my 22 year old just the things that she
Sally Bisbee: sees. You know, like I said, I, I run three businesses. I have my, my
Sally Bisbee: coaching business and organising business and a crafting business and so I'm busy all
Sally Bisbee: the time but I, I run three businesses and do a lot of the
Sally Bisbee: mom stuff but just, just showing her, you know,
Sally Bisbee: she'll say, you know and, and I actually for the last eight years I just
Sally Bisbee: recently retired from this. I ran an in home daycare so that I could be
Sally Bisbee: home with my little kids and be the ones to raise them. And you know,
Sally Bisbee: I always. She knows and the little kids will know eventually. Like wasn't ever my
Sally Bisbee: dream to be a daycare lady. Like that wasn't grow up and be a
Sally Bisbee: daycare lady but it wasn't my dream to be a mom and to be able
Sally Bisbee: to be with them but also to still to earn that income and have money
Sally Bisbee: and those things. And so I think showing these kids that
Sally Bisbee: and also that my husband is so involved and stuff, you know,
Sally Bisbee: my dad is an Amazing man. And I love him and I'm still super close
Sally Bisbee: to him, but he was, he worked 70 hours a week,
Sally Bisbee: six days a week. Like, we didn't see him much as a kid because he
Sally Bisbee: was the, he was the breadwinner. My mom stayed home and did the stuff with
Sally Bisbee: us and growing, you know, raising these kids in a family that they see like,
Sally Bisbee: dad is home and dad does stuff. And like when I leave and go have
Sally Bisbee: my girls night with my friends, dad isn't babysitting. You
Sally Bisbee: know, that's one of those, like when people say that, oh, my husband's babysitting, you're
Sally Bisbee: like, it's not babysitting when it's your own kids. Right? Like, nope, he's just home
Sally Bisbee: with his kids. Much like parenting. Parenting for sure.
Sally Bisbee: And so, you know, I love that my kids get to see that, that
Sally Bisbee: dad gets to go do his thing. Mom does her thing. We have life outside
Sally Bisbee: of them. We both work. You know, I am
Sally Bisbee: running these businesses on my own, following my dream and my
Sally Bisbee: passion and all that. And so just showing them all those things is just such
Sally Bisbee: a cool thing. And so I do, I think that they're going to grow up
Sally Bisbee: in a, in a different way that we, that you and I especially were raised
Sally Bisbee: with. Having stay at home moms will forever be grateful that I had
Sally Bisbee: that and love that my mom was a stay at home mom. And as much
Sally Bisbee: of why I run my own businesses is because I want to be able to
Sally Bisbee: be home still and be here for my kids. But I love that
Sally Bisbee: they get to see that me being a mom didn't mean that I got to
Sally Bisbee: give up on my, on my dreams and my passions just because I was a
Sally Bisbee: mom. So I'm glad they get to see that for sure. Talk about
Joanne Lockwood: raised by our mums. I was just also thinking there that I'm now hitting
Joanne Lockwood: that sandwich generation. You know, where I'm now. Look now,
Joanne Lockwood: both my wife and I, we're now becoming more responsible for our parents.
Joanne Lockwood: My wife lost her mother two years ago. I lost my
Joanne Lockwood: father three, three months ago. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
Joanne Lockwood: They, they had a fantastic life. They, they didn't suffer. They, they were,
Joanne Lockwood: they were old. They part, they passed when they were old. They had a good
Joanne Lockwood: life. And my wife's father at the moment is,
Joanne Lockwood: he's 92. Wow. And he's, he's, he's, he'S a fantastic
Joanne Lockwood: 92. But he's just getting to the point now where he
Joanne Lockwood: spent some time in hospital. Yeah. We almost have Our own parking spot accident
Joanne Lockwood: in emergency. The ed. Yeah. Or we, we hear in the car
Joanne Lockwood: park again we go, oh yeah. We're back to our overnight hotel where he's,
Joanne Lockwood: he's in the bed, we're sitting in the chairs waiting all night to be seen.
Joanne Lockwood: And my, my, my mum's a few years younger so she's quite, she's
Joanne Lockwood: 86 and a good 86, I love it. But we're
Joanne Lockwood: recognising that we've now got to go back through that parental cycle because
Joanne Lockwood: we're now having to manage our parents not as if they're baby children, but
Joanne Lockwood: they, they need help, support,
Joanne Lockwood: worry and also you need to persuade them to do the right
Joanne Lockwood: thing, to get it right, to regard themselves. And persuading our father in law to
Joanne Lockwood: stop driving was a real challenge because a proud
Joanne Lockwood: man. I can still drive. It's when he says it's okay, I
Joanne Lockwood: take it really, really careful when I'm driving. I thought you should be taking it
Joanne Lockwood: really, really careful anyway when you're driving. Not so.
Joanne Lockwood: So fortunately, fortunately he decided on his own.
Joanne Lockwood: Okay, good, stop driving. He got to the point where I think he'd had a
Joanne Lockwood: fall and he didn't drive for about a month and he went to try and
Joanne Lockwood: drive. He said, I've realised now, having not driven for a month, I can't.
Joanne Lockwood: Here's my licence. But so yeah, we sold his car and it was fine. So
Joanne Lockwood: yeah, it's. You become a parent again, don't you?
Sally Bisbee: Yeah, yeah, I, I'm not there yet, thank God. But
Sally Bisbee: I can only imagine that, that, that, that's just a whole thing, right? You gotta
Sally Bisbee: watch out for them and care for them and there's a way more fine line
Sally Bisbee: there because like you said, I mean those things of like you can't be
Sally Bisbee: driving, you shouldn't be driving anymore. But to tell a grown adult that,
Sally Bisbee: I mean, I always think like I don't ever want to be told that ever.
Sally Bisbee: But you know, eventually I, I hope
Sally Bisbee: I'm blessed enough to get there, you know, 92 years, that's. That's awesome, right?
Sally Bisbee: To be afforded that. You got to live a great life that long. Like
Sally Bisbee: great. But yeah, that's a whole new, a whole new responsibility.
Joanne Lockwood: It's completely different conversations, you know, you go around, they're making sure they've eaten properly,
Joanne Lockwood: checking on their food in the fridge, is there anything mouldy in the cupboard? It's
Joanne Lockwood: like, it's like in some respects it's like dealing with a two year old
Joanne Lockwood: again in some Respects. It's like dealing with a teenager again because they're petulant, they're
Joanne Lockwood: fighting back, they go angsty about the whole thing, don't want to be told.
Joanne Lockwood: Sometimes they're just, they just need to be treated like a child. So it's, you
Joanne Lockwood: know, think about your simplification coach. I'm guessing that some of your,
Joanne Lockwood: your mum. Mum friends are about to hit that
Joanne Lockwood: part of their life as well. You know, got kids, got menopause,
Joanne Lockwood: got elderly parents. But nobody trained you to be an
Joanne Lockwood: elderly parent carer. Because when you're, you're going through your pregnancy,
Joanne Lockwood: when you're going through starting a family, everybody's got the manuals, the
Joanne Lockwood: books, the tools, the antenatal classes, scans. When parents
Joanne Lockwood: suddenly become old, there's no guidebook. People just go,
Joanne Lockwood: wow, it is what it is. And then you find that social services, support services
Joanne Lockwood: are just. You have to fight for everything. It's like a nightmare. Yeah,
Sally Bisbee: yeah, it's. Yeah, that's a whole new, A whole new thing that
Sally Bisbee: I'm not super versed in experience yet or. No, but, yeah,
Sally Bisbee: whole, whole new thing. But I will say if you simplify your life and
Sally Bisbee: get rid of that, you know, I always tell people, like one of my big
Sally Bisbee: things just in the overall thing is when you simplify your life and
Sally Bisbee: get rid of any unnecessary stresses, when new stresses come
Sally Bisbee: up, then the thing is you can just focus on that new stress and you
Sally Bisbee: don't also have to focus on that new stress along with all the other stresses.
Sally Bisbee: Right. When you, when you have all those other things figured
Sally Bisbee: out and taken care of, then, then you're able to just deal with that new
Sally Bisbee: stress of figuring out how to navigate that, the ageing parents or
Sally Bisbee: whatever, without also having 80 other stresses still in your life.
Joanne Lockwood: I think that's important. You're right, because when we, when we
Joanne Lockwood: speak from a position of stress, the wrong brain chemicals are
Joanne Lockwood: flowing. We're not in our prefrontal cortex, we're not calm, we're
Joanne Lockwood: often not completely rational. So sometimes it's being able
Joanne Lockwood: to step back because some of the stresses come from our employer, the environment,
Joanne Lockwood: society, not just the children or the husband. So being able
Joanne Lockwood: to say how I feel to others,
Joanne Lockwood: that's a really good technique to learn, isn't it? Yes. Such a good one,
Sally Bisbee: Sally. It's been absolutely fascinating. I mean, we could do a volume two on. And
Joanne Lockwood: I'll. You can, you can interview me on, on elderly parents with my, my new
Joanne Lockwood: special subject. I love it. How do people get ahold of you. How do people
Joanne Lockwood: get hold of you? Um, sure. So my website
Sally Bisbee: is simply sallyco.com
Sally Bisbee: you can find me on Facebook or Instagram at Simply
Sally Bisbee: Sally Coaching. And
Sally Bisbee: that's, that's where I'm at. And you're Sally
Joanne Lockwood: Bisbee. Sally Bisbee. Are you on Instagram, places
Joanne Lockwood: like that? Yeah, the, the Simply Sally Coaching is my
Sally Bisbee: Instagram and Facebook. Both of those and Facebook. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: So people want to Google you, track you down, search for you. Yes. Wave,
Joanne Lockwood: say hi. Like a few of your posts. Yeah, I would love that.
Joanne Lockwood: Do you do kind of a bit of ad hoc messenger support type
Joanne Lockwood: stuff? So if someone's having a bit of burnout struggle, can you give them a
Joanne Lockwood: bit of. A. Bit of a bit of a sample coach over the. Over
Joanne Lockwood: the dms? Sure. Yes. If someone wants to message me.
Sally Bisbee: Yep. And I've got free free resources on
Sally Bisbee: my website. Different, you know, time saving hacks and just
Sally Bisbee: different things like that. I host free workshops every once in a
Sally Bisbee: while for people to hop on and learn different. Just ways to
Sally Bisbee: get more time in your life and different things like that. So
Sally Bisbee: awesome to check out Sally. It's been a blast. It's been lovely to
Joanne Lockwood: talk to you for just over an hour, so thank you so much. Yes, thank
Sally Bisbee: you so much for having me. It's been great chatting with you too.
Joanne Lockwood: As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to express
Joanne Lockwood: my deepest gratitude to, to you, our listener, for lending
Joanne Lockwood: your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion.
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