Joanne Lockwood: Foreign.
Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary
Joanne Lockwood: for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood,
Joanne Lockwood: your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of
Joanne Lockwood: inclusion, belonging and societal transformation.
Joanne Lockwood: Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone
Joanne Lockwood: not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone.
Joanne Lockwood: Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge
Joanne Lockwood: the status quo and share storeys that resonate
Joanne Lockwood: deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're
Joanne Lockwood: sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's
Joanne Lockwood: connect, reflect and inspire action together.
Joanne Lockwood: Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out
Joanne Lockwood: to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk
Joanne Lockwood: to share your insights or to join me on the show.
Joanne Lockwood: So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to
Joanne Lockwood: ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.
Joanne Lockwood: And today is episode 190 with the
Joanne Lockwood: title Leadership, Learning and Belonging. And I
Joanne Lockwood: have the absolute honour and Privilege to welcome Dr. Cedric Howard.
Joanne Lockwood: Cedric is a higher educational thought leader and financial
Joanne Lockwood: empowerment advocate who is dedicated to breaking cycles of
Joanne Lockwood: poverty through inclusive leadership and real world impact.
Joanne Lockwood: And when I asked Cedric to describe his superpower, he said that it
Joanne Lockwood: is translating complex policy into everyday storeys
Joanne Lockwood: that inspire actionable change. Hello, Cedric. Welcome to
Joanne Lockwood: the show. Thank you. I'm honoured to be here. Looking
Dr. Cedric Howard: forward to the conversation. Absolute pleasure. So
Joanne Lockwood: we were chatting in the green room just before we went live and I think
Joanne Lockwood: you said you were in North America at some place.
Dr. Cedric Howard: Yes, you talk about sleepless in Seattle. I'm in the wonderful
Dr. Cedric Howard: city of Seattle. Seattle. And I
Joanne Lockwood: guessed this correctly, so this is not cheating. I guessed it was in Washington state
Joanne Lockwood: and I just. Yes, we're
Dr. Cedric Howard: nested between California, Oregon and British
Dr. Cedric Howard: Columbia, Canada. So I get. I've been to
Joanne Lockwood: New York a few times, I've been to Miami a few times, I've been to
Joanne Lockwood: San Diego, San Francisco and L.A.
Joanne Lockwood: What's the Seattle culture like as a state? Or do you have an identity?
Dr. Cedric Howard: Yes, we have what is called
Dr. Cedric Howard: Seattle. Nice. It is the place everyone
Dr. Cedric Howard: likes to come to when they enjoy
Dr. Cedric Howard: moderate weather because it's pretty much between 40 and 70 year
Dr. Cedric Howard: round. A hot day for us is like
Dr. Cedric Howard: 72. Not a lot of snow, especially
Dr. Cedric Howard: on the i5 corridor door. But it's the place you come when you want
Dr. Cedric Howard: to just relax, chill, get you a cup of. Of coffee. Of course,
Dr. Cedric Howard: you know we're known for being the home for a famous coffee place
Dr. Cedric Howard: that shall remain nameless. Yes, of course, but.
Dr. Cedric Howard: Of course, but no, it is a place that I have Grown
Dr. Cedric Howard: to love, in part because it is a place where your
Dr. Cedric Howard: identity and who you are as a person is accepted. And our neighbourhood. I grew
Dr. Cedric Howard: up in the southern part of the United States where race was an issue,
Dr. Cedric Howard: either things were black or white, and where you went, you knew
Dr. Cedric Howard: based upon your ethnic makeup here, whether.
Dr. Cedric Howard: Whether you are straight, gay, black, white, however you
Dr. Cedric Howard: decide to identify is well embraced and welcome, in part because
Dr. Cedric Howard: the Pacific Northwest community is one that looks at
Dr. Cedric Howard: inclusion as an asset
Dr. Cedric Howard: and we embrace it. If you were to go into my neighbourhood, or you were
Dr. Cedric Howard: to go into my place of business, where my office is
Dr. Cedric Howard: located, I mean, sometimes people refer to it
Dr. Cedric Howard: as United nations because you may hear two or three different
Dr. Cedric Howard: languages just as you're entering the door or you're playing outside with the
Dr. Cedric Howard: kids. Pacific Northwest, I've heard that term. I never really associated that with a
Joanne Lockwood: geographical language location. But, yeah, obvious, isn't it? You're on the Pacific
Joanne Lockwood: and you're in the Northwest. So, yeah, you mentioned the i5. I didn't
Joanne Lockwood: realise it went all that way up. It goes all the way from basically
Joanne Lockwood: Mexico all the way through, up to Washington State then, does it?
Dr. Cedric Howard: That is certainly the case. Certainly the case. Unfortunately. You know, one of the,
Dr. Cedric Howard: I would say the liabilities of being in the Pacific Northwest is
Dr. Cedric Howard: because it's so green, we have a lot of allergies that are blooming during
Dr. Cedric Howard: this time of season. So we have to adjust and adapt from that perspective. Other
Dr. Cedric Howard: than that, that's the worst we have to deal with here.
Joanne Lockwood: So you're on the i5 all the way at the top, aren't you? So I,
Joanne Lockwood: I, I bumped into the i5 in San Diego, in LA
Joanne Lockwood: when I was there. And my claim
Joanne Lockwood: to fame is I went to Mexico by mistake. I was driving down the
Joanne Lockwood: i5 and was chatting away and, and missed the sign said last US
Joanne Lockwood: Exit and then next sign is welcome to Mexico. And
Joanne Lockwood: it was a, a bit of a, kind of like, oh, that was a mistake.
Dr. Cedric Howard: It was an aha moment. Yeah. So if you would continue north, you would take
Dr. Cedric Howard: the eye up through Oregon and into
Dr. Cedric Howard: Washington and you will eventually end at the Canadian
Dr. Cedric Howard: border. So it literally goes from Canada to Mexico along
Joanne Lockwood: that coast? Yeah. Yes, yes. Literally, it is
Dr. Cedric Howard: the gateway between three different countries.
Joanne Lockwood: Wow. Yeah. When I was in, I worked in LA for a
Joanne Lockwood: while and we did spend a bit of time cruising up and down
Joanne Lockwood: the pch. Yes. Yeah. Pacific.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. So you go there, all the RVs on the side of the road, parking
Joanne Lockwood: over the, looking over the Pacific, and you just go on and on and on.
Joanne Lockwood: There's back to back RVs for 20, 30, half
Joanne Lockwood: an hour as you're driving them. Yeah, well, see, you know, the uniqueness of
Dr. Cedric Howard: being in some place like the Pacific Northwest is in part because
Dr. Cedric Howard: all of the Californians, actually many
Dr. Cedric Howard: of them have residents here in Washington state,
Dr. Cedric Howard: in part because of our tax system. You know, California
Dr. Cedric Howard: is a high tax state. In Washington State we
Dr. Cedric Howard: don't have a state income tax. And so
Dr. Cedric Howard: you can, as we say, you make your money in California,
Dr. Cedric Howard: but you have your permanent residence and address here in Washington
Dr. Cedric Howard: state so that you don't have to necessarily pay the taxes or as many taxes
Dr. Cedric Howard: on your income. And that's kind of what we, what we're known for.
Dr. Cedric Howard: What I oftentimes say about being in Pacific Northwest,
Dr. Cedric Howard: it is the utopian community that you didn't
Dr. Cedric Howard: know existed. And I have to say that very
Dr. Cedric Howard: respectfully, in part because when people come here
Dr. Cedric Howard: and they're walking around and they're trying to, you know, enjoy the
Dr. Cedric Howard: sights, whether it is a space Needle or they're going to,
Dr. Cedric Howard: you know, see some of, you know, because, you know, literally in, in
Dr. Cedric Howard: Seattle you could be fishing in the Pacific Ocean
Dr. Cedric Howard: and then literally an hour from, from, from there you could be
Dr. Cedric Howard: skiing all in the same morning or same afternoon
Dr. Cedric Howard: because we go from actually sea level
Dr. Cedric Howard: all the way up through the point where you have Mount Rainier.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And so it is a diverse community that people, you know, fall
Dr. Cedric Howard: in love with. But when you come here, the thing that most people are surprised
Dr. Cedric Howard: is just how genuinely kind people are.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And three out of the top 10 zip codes, United States
Dr. Cedric Howard: for its diversity is here in metropolitan Seattle area.
Dr. Cedric Howard: I giggled because I said, wait till you see the insurance
Dr. Cedric Howard: commercials. And so there's insurance commercials
Dr. Cedric Howard: where people are literally at four way stops and they say, you go. No,
Dr. Cedric Howard: you go. No, you go, you go. And no one can decide who
Dr. Cedric Howard: to go because people are just so kind and so nice,
Dr. Cedric Howard: you know, and that could be a bit shocking because you begin to
Dr. Cedric Howard: suspect something's wrong. And I think it's just a community environment
Dr. Cedric Howard: that have really been cultivated here in the Seattle area.
Joanne Lockwood: Sounds heavenly. Maybe in a few years time when it's safe to travel
Joanne Lockwood: again. I may venture that way. You never know. That is
Dr. Cedric Howard: certainly the case. I mean, we have a much larger issue
Dr. Cedric Howard: around travel and Visa and other things that we're dealing with here in the United
Dr. Cedric Howard: States that I think is something that is a bit of an
Dr. Cedric Howard: overcast in relations
Dr. Cedric Howard: to travel and how we deal with things. So. Well said. Yeah,
Joanne Lockwood: it's a bit complex right now, so we'll just wait for clarity and
Joanne Lockwood: see what happens. Anyway, so
Joanne Lockwood: you're an educational thought leader. What does that mean?
Joanne Lockwood: How did that come about? So it was actually a mistake,
Dr. Cedric Howard: to be quite honest and frank. I got into higher education
Dr. Cedric Howard: literally. You know, people say, never waste a good crisis.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And my actually introduction to higher education was
Dr. Cedric Howard: a crisis. And I had used it to maximise the
Dr. Cedric Howard: opportunity and really cultivate and create and curate
Dr. Cedric Howard: a career that has led to me being considered a thought leader here in the
Dr. Cedric Howard: United states. So in 1993,
Dr. Cedric Howard: it was the first recorded case of police
Dr. Cedric Howard: officers actually, you know, abusing
Dr. Cedric Howard: a person. And that person's name was Rodney King.
Dr. Cedric Howard: I happened to be working at a university as a student
Dr. Cedric Howard: and that day my campus was
Dr. Cedric Howard: in the state of Georgia. And actually the
Dr. Cedric Howard: campus, very proud of being a graduate of that institution, was
Dr. Cedric Howard: the very first capital of Georgia. It actually sits geographically in the
Dr. Cedric Howard: centre of the state and the governor's mansion is on campus. And
Dr. Cedric Howard: so a couple blocks from there is the residence hall, very large Residence
Dr. Cedric Howard: hall, about 800 students that resided there. And that day
Dr. Cedric Howard: we had just literally finished playing
Dr. Cedric Howard: intramural basketball and everyone was having fun.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And when the verdict happened on the
Dr. Cedric Howard: the Pacific coast in California, three hours later, those same people were
Dr. Cedric Howard: actually physically attacking each other because of the
Dr. Cedric Howard: verdict. And of course, like I said, everything in the south, especially back then, was
Dr. Cedric Howard: black and white. So you had friends that were getting along now, attacking each other
Dr. Cedric Howard: based upon their colour. And I'm a relatively big
Dr. Cedric Howard: guy, you know, six, four. And so I did something
Dr. Cedric Howard: that I thought I would regret, but actually
Dr. Cedric Howard: became the springboard for my career. I ran into the resident
Dr. Cedric Howard: assistant's office and got duck taped and I went and
Dr. Cedric Howard: grabbed people because they respected me. At that point in time, I was student body
Dr. Cedric Howard: vice president and had just been named Hong Kong King for the
Dr. Cedric Howard: campus. And I began to duct take people to telegram polls
Dr. Cedric Howard: to. If you stay still long enough,
Dr. Cedric Howard: I would duct tape you to someone else just so you can fight each other.
Dr. Cedric Howard: Well, the next day I got called to the president's office and the vice president
Dr. Cedric Howard: was there and the chief of police was there and I knew that I was
Dr. Cedric Howard: getting, you know, suspended and expelled from school. And they literally
Dr. Cedric Howard: said to me, hey, Cedric, when we begin this and your
Dr. Cedric Howard: name came up, we were shocked because we was like, Cedric was involved.
Dr. Cedric Howard: I can't believe he was, you know, involved in this particular situation in a negative
Dr. Cedric Howard: way and realised, no, you were actually the saving grace. And so, no, you're not
Dr. Cedric Howard: getting kicked out of school. What we would like to offer you is an opportunity
Dr. Cedric Howard: to consider higher education as a profession. And
Dr. Cedric Howard: I said, as a profession? They said, yes, we go to school to become
Dr. Cedric Howard: college administrators. I said, I've never heard of that before. They said,
Dr. Cedric Howard: well, when you graduate next year, we would like to recommend you to a couple
Dr. Cedric Howard: of schools. Which they did. And I was accepted. And ultimately that
Dr. Cedric Howard: became the springboard and trajectory of a career that
Dr. Cedric Howard: has spanned more than 30 years. And so that has evolved into
Dr. Cedric Howard: me really curating my career to say as a first
Dr. Cedric Howard: generation college student, which I am, how do I create an
Dr. Cedric Howard: environment where people that are similar to me, people that are coming from disadvantaged
Dr. Cedric Howard: backgrounds, people that are students that are coming from less than
Dr. Cedric Howard: desired socioeconomic classes into the. Give them a
Dr. Cedric Howard: gateway into the academy. And so that's how I have created my
Dr. Cedric Howard: career. And because of that, when there's a thought that
Dr. Cedric Howard: needed to be considered and, or interview, you know, just
Dr. Cedric Howard: this last week I've been interviewed by Forbes and, and
Dr. Cedric Howard: Yahoo Finance. And just think over my career, I've been interviewed
Dr. Cedric Howard: for north of 150 publications.
Dr. Cedric Howard: When there's a question that is been
Dr. Cedric Howard: batted back and forth around, you know, how does this affect the student experience
Dr. Cedric Howard: and affect students. Usually I'm getting a call in order to
Dr. Cedric Howard: provide some narrative. But it all began a chance situation,
Dr. Cedric Howard: you know, in April of 1993 because of the
Dr. Cedric Howard: Rodney King situation. And some action I
Dr. Cedric Howard: took actually led me into a career
Dr. Cedric Howard: of being a higher education administrator and then ultimately
Dr. Cedric Howard: a college professor and
Dr. Cedric Howard: writing chapters and books for the profession.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And now I'm considered to be a thought leader and as the
Dr. Cedric Howard: young people say, an OG and a higher education og kind of the old
Dr. Cedric Howard: guard, you know, even though I tell them I'm not, I don't look as old
Dr. Cedric Howard: as I actually am. As you talk about. I've got loads of questions in my
Joanne Lockwood: head that I just want to, I really want to dive in there. Please go
Dr. Cedric Howard: ahead. For those listening, who is
Joanne Lockwood: Rodney King? I've heard the name as being outside of the
Joanne Lockwood: U.S. i don't know the storey. And it was what, 22 years ago?
Joanne Lockwood: 23 years ago. What's the quick storey about who Rodney
Joanne Lockwood: King was? Yes, so Rodney King actually
Dr. Cedric Howard: was, believe it or not, was 32 years ago. It was in 1993,
Dr. Cedric Howard: California. We talk about the PCH. Rodney King
Dr. Cedric Howard: was the first actual recorded police beating of a
Dr. Cedric Howard: citizen. And it was on. It was a situation in California where he
Dr. Cedric Howard: was a driver that was pulled over and you know, dozens of
Dr. Cedric Howard: police Officers responded and he was. There was a recording
Dr. Cedric Howard: of four police officers beating him hundreds of times.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And it was the. You know, for me, it became the
Dr. Cedric Howard: introduction of recorded activity and actions that
Dr. Cedric Howard: was uploaded from a camcorder and
Dr. Cedric Howard: that video went viral before we knew the term viral across
Dr. Cedric Howard: the world. And then ultimately there was a case of those
Dr. Cedric Howard: four police officers with the video and they were acquitted
Dr. Cedric Howard: and said that their actions were just. And that ignited. It
Dr. Cedric Howard: sparked a lot of racial tension and frustration
Dr. Cedric Howard: within the United States. So that's kind of the premise of, you
Dr. Cedric Howard: know, some people have heard of George Floyd, but this was the original case
Dr. Cedric Howard: before George Floyd happened. Rodney King was the very
Dr. Cedric Howard: first recorded police case of
Dr. Cedric Howard: brutality here in the United States. As a black man
Joanne Lockwood: yourself, a part of the community, you must have been outraged as
Joanne Lockwood: well, just from a racial community point of view. But
Joanne Lockwood: how were you feeling at the time? Well, I didn't know how
Dr. Cedric Howard: to feel at the time. You know, at this time, you know, I'm not even,
Dr. Cedric Howard: you know, I'm not even. I think I was like 19 or 20
Dr. Cedric Howard: and, you know, and I'm a college student. And I realised that in our
Dr. Cedric Howard: campus, I mean, we're only 5% of the student population.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And here I am as a student body officer
Dr. Cedric Howard: and, you know, recognised by our community. For me,
Dr. Cedric Howard: I was raised in an environment and just knowing my
Dr. Cedric Howard: storey, I was raised, you know, one of. One of my things
Dr. Cedric Howard: I've done for its financial literacy and that part, and I'm kind of circle back
Dr. Cedric Howard: around is I go into communities, I tell the storey of how I went from
Dr. Cedric Howard: welfare to wealth and generational wealth. And
Dr. Cedric Howard: part of it was that I was raised in a community that took care of
Dr. Cedric Howard: each other, where, you know, your neighbour's needs were your needs.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And so I took that same thought into the
Dr. Cedric Howard: academy, into the university. And so as a resident
Dr. Cedric Howard: assistant living in our residence hall, I went into a
Dr. Cedric Howard: community saying, okay, why are we fighting each other for no reason? I mean, we're
Dr. Cedric Howard: friends. And so I just went into action the same way I would
Dr. Cedric Howard: have been in the inner city had I been at home. If something's happened, you
Dr. Cedric Howard: just jump into action. And so I didn't see myself as
Dr. Cedric Howard: a large black man now after the fact I did. But during
Dr. Cedric Howard: the situation, I saw myself as a student body officer. I saw myself as an
Dr. Cedric Howard: agent of the institution. I saw myself as interacting with friends
Dr. Cedric Howard: that had a relationship. So this wasn't transactional, this relational.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And I think that allowed me to take off
Dr. Cedric Howard: the blinders that would have blinded me Had I thought about,
Dr. Cedric Howard: I'm a large black man about to go and grab someone who's not black,
Dr. Cedric Howard: because that would have, you know, fear would have forced me, you know, to
Dr. Cedric Howard: forfeit ultimately what became my promise. And I'm very
Dr. Cedric Howard: fortunate that it did. It. It takes a. Well, with hindsight, it must have taken
Joanne Lockwood: a really. It's been ingrained in your psyche and personality that
Joanne Lockwood: you were looking for resolution and to pull
Joanne Lockwood: together rather than get angry and push apart. That must take a real kind
Joanne Lockwood: of core value of yours that you've brought through. Well, one of my core
Dr. Cedric Howard: values as a person and as an educator is the greatest
Dr. Cedric Howard: struggle you have to overcome is the one within yourself. If you can't win the
Dr. Cedric Howard: battle of your own thoughts and the self talk and rewire your
Dr. Cedric Howard: mind to think positive and seek positivity,
Dr. Cedric Howard: then you're already defeated. And so I live
Dr. Cedric Howard: my lifelong perspective that a crisis
Dr. Cedric Howard: or a threat is nothing more than opportunity. No simply means
Dr. Cedric Howard: another option. And so I have to look at my life from that
Dr. Cedric Howard: perspective, not from a deficit mindset. And I oftentimes say that
Dr. Cedric Howard: if we begin with that, then you and I have
Dr. Cedric Howard: never met each other, but there's a kinship that we can
Dr. Cedric Howard: engage in a conversation with honesty and
Dr. Cedric Howard: in a authentic manner that I think is beneficial
Dr. Cedric Howard: for others that review this particular conversation. Now, if we begin
Dr. Cedric Howard: from that perspective, we've already won. We've already set
Dr. Cedric Howard: an environment, an ecosystem that we can learn from each other. And
Dr. Cedric Howard: I think that is critical in any conversation and debate to give
Dr. Cedric Howard: that person the agency to be who they are
Dr. Cedric Howard: and to respect who they are. And so that's the way I approach
Dr. Cedric Howard: life. That's who I am as a professional, who I am in, you know, in
Dr. Cedric Howard: higher education. Because almost every higher
Dr. Cedric Howard: education institution is nothing more than a reflection of the community that it
Dr. Cedric Howard: resides within. That is all that it is.
Dr. Cedric Howard: It is simply a smaller, miniature version of, of what is
Dr. Cedric Howard: happening with the factors and the influences that are
Dr. Cedric Howard: affecting it. And so we, you know,
Dr. Cedric Howard: discuss things in the same way. The difference is that we
Dr. Cedric Howard: create an environment that says it is okay to have debate, it
Dr. Cedric Howard: is okay to be frustrated, it is okay to, to engage
Dr. Cedric Howard: in conversation, but you must do so up
Dr. Cedric Howard: under the umbrella or the premise of that you respect
Dr. Cedric Howard: the person that you're engaging in debate with. That
Dr. Cedric Howard: is something that I think we can. Can mirror in society. And I think that's
Dr. Cedric Howard: what has come for me. And that's why that being a person from a
Dr. Cedric Howard: disadvantaged background, I had all the things that was against me. You Know,
Dr. Cedric Howard: I was the first in my family to go to college. Well, statistics
Dr. Cedric Howard: say I shouldn't make it. Definitely
Dr. Cedric Howard: was not. Only 4% of African Americans in
Dr. Cedric Howard: the United States and only 2% of African Americans
Dr. Cedric Howard: across the world have terminal degrees, you know,
Dr. Cedric Howard: for a doctorate, you know. And so for me, it was creating an
Dr. Cedric Howard: environment to say, because I've come from those places, why should
Dr. Cedric Howard: I fear, you know, the situations I'm dealing with? Because
Dr. Cedric Howard: we should create an environment where people feel valued, seen, and most
Dr. Cedric Howard: importantly, validated. That's how we should lead as
Dr. Cedric Howard: individuals and citizens. I completely agree with you. I think I would also describe
Joanne Lockwood: myself as an educator rather than an activist. And
Joanne Lockwood: as you're talking now, I'm thinking, I've almost in my own mind thinking.
Joanne Lockwood: When activist talks without listening, an educator's first, first
Joanne Lockwood: tool is listening before talking. And it's trying to understand where
Joanne Lockwood: people are and meet them where they are first, rather than telling everybody
Joanne Lockwood: where you are. It's a slightly different approach. And
Joanne Lockwood: I think I use the word thought leader in your
Joanne Lockwood: introduction. And that's part of that. It's leading thought, isn't it? It's
Joanne Lockwood: bringing people around the table to have these conversations and
Joanne Lockwood: disarming people and saying, hang on a minute, we're not going to solve anything by
Joanne Lockwood: being at polar opposites here. Yeah. And I think an important part
Dr. Cedric Howard: of being. What I have learned about the convenience of leaders
Dr. Cedric Howard: is that you may have content, but it's
Dr. Cedric Howard: also important to have context. Because when you have
Dr. Cedric Howard: content with context, you have clarity.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And what I have decided to do, especially in my
Dr. Cedric Howard: sphere of influence working with higher education deans, vice
Dr. Cedric Howard: presidents and presidents, is say, have we thought about the context
Dr. Cedric Howard: by which we're going to present this content? And that's
Dr. Cedric Howard: where we've been able to leverage games and really
Dr. Cedric Howard: come off from the perspective of everything that we feel
Dr. Cedric Howard: may not be felt or seen by those that are
Dr. Cedric Howard: making decisions. Almost every incident,
Dr. Cedric Howard: every public institution in the United States reports up,
Dr. Cedric Howard: ultimately, through a community or state board, a
Dr. Cedric Howard: politician. And so not to acknowledge that
Dr. Cedric Howard: public's desire has some influence on that
Dr. Cedric Howard: politician, which has influence on your funding, is a fallacy.
Dr. Cedric Howard: It's a flawed thought. And so we got to begin with that first. And
Dr. Cedric Howard: so leveraging the thoughts is saying, timeout. What is important
Dr. Cedric Howard: to you as a politician? What is important to you as a power broker? What
Dr. Cedric Howard: is important to you as a part of the citizens and the community
Dr. Cedric Howard: that you serve? That's where we should begin, because we should be
Dr. Cedric Howard: the community's college or the Community's university and not
Dr. Cedric Howard: a, and not an ecosystem or
Dr. Cedric Howard: organisation or a structure onto ourselves. And
Dr. Cedric Howard: that's where I have learned being, you know, considered a thought leader is
Dr. Cedric Howard: because I have said my primary customer in higher
Dr. Cedric Howard: education are students. And what I do is create an
Dr. Cedric Howard: environment where access and success becomes the
Dr. Cedric Howard: guiding principles for leading decisions
Dr. Cedric Howard: that ultimately serve our primary customer, which are students. And when
Dr. Cedric Howard: we get that as the focal point, then we can
Dr. Cedric Howard: make more, we can make much more meaningful,
Dr. Cedric Howard: direct and intentional decisions that support the students that we
Dr. Cedric Howard: ultimately serve. How do you make sure that you're humanising the
Joanne Lockwood: individual? Because sometimes when you're making decisions at a
Joanne Lockwood: politician level, at a campus level, whatever it may be, it's too easy to
Joanne Lockwood: see a student as an entity rather than
Joanne Lockwood: the breadth and depth, the intersectionality, the individual within that.
Joanne Lockwood: And how do you bring out the human into your model?
Dr. Cedric Howard: Well, I think the most important thing is to make sure that at every
Dr. Cedric Howard: stage of the decision making process you're involving students
Dr. Cedric Howard: to bring that voice. Because as a senior level
Dr. Cedric Howard: administrator or as you know, when I'm being interviewed, I'm thinking
Dr. Cedric Howard: in the macro because I'm trying to get a point across to the, to the
Dr. Cedric Howard: masses. But storytelling is extremely important. That's why,
Dr. Cedric Howard: you know, from every phase of development and every
Dr. Cedric Howard: point of discussion actually have a student that is part of that process. Oftentimes
Dr. Cedric Howard: I have a couple students because they have different storeys to tell and
Dr. Cedric Howard: they have different experiences. So making sure that we involve
Dr. Cedric Howard: students, one of the things that I have learned, and this
Dr. Cedric Howard: is important lesson I think is critical for the, for, for your
Dr. Cedric Howard: listeners and a part of our conversation. Too often
Dr. Cedric Howard: those that are in power are making decisions based upon
Dr. Cedric Howard: who is funding or who is giving input into
Dr. Cedric Howard: their decision making process and they're not involved in the people that are being
Dr. Cedric Howard: affected. And so for me, I began
Dr. Cedric Howard: just the opposite to say, okay, let me truly understand what is the problem.
Dr. Cedric Howard: So I go to the people that are affected first, understand the problem
Dr. Cedric Howard: and then I develop a solution based upon the programme,
Dr. Cedric Howard: the policy and or procedure that actually
Dr. Cedric Howard: addresses the problem. And I think that's how you
Dr. Cedric Howard: resolve the issue of the
Dr. Cedric Howard: voices of the individuals that are being affected. Start with them
Dr. Cedric Howard: first. Don't create an issue or problem based upon the funding
Dr. Cedric Howard: source and or the political influence that may
Dr. Cedric Howard: craft a statement for you because their interests have already
Dr. Cedric Howard: been met. Go to the people that are going to be affected and start there
Dr. Cedric Howard: first, because now you can craft something that is actually meaningful and
Dr. Cedric Howard: intentional and actually get to address what the issues actually
Dr. Cedric Howard: are. Yeah, no, I see that. And you're right. Sometimes you got to ask, ask
Joanne Lockwood: the money what their motivation is. Yes, yes. And often just to
Joanne Lockwood: make more money. You gotta understand the person's why, because that's what
Dr. Cedric Howard: drives them. And, you know, you gotta also
Dr. Cedric Howard: understand the process. The process determine the product that you produce. And
Dr. Cedric Howard: so in my process or processes that I lead, I make sure I have all
Dr. Cedric Howard: effective parties at the table so that they can engage in
Dr. Cedric Howard: conversation and inform decisions as we're moving forward. You
Joanne Lockwood: mentioned earlier that you're a first generation college graduate.
Dr. Cedric Howard: Yes. That implies to me that you're not the last. See,
Joanne Lockwood: you're now the beginning of your new family tree. Yes.
Dr. Cedric Howard: So very briefly. So go back to the storey of
Dr. Cedric Howard: undergraduate career. So a year Later, June of 94,
Dr. Cedric Howard: I graduated and I happened to be the first in my family to ultimately
Dr. Cedric Howard: graduate. So my, my, my grandmother came and I've kind of
Dr. Cedric Howard: told this storey because it became the genesis of the new iteration of
Dr. Cedric Howard: our family. My grandmother came and my grandmother's 5:1,
Dr. Cedric Howard: and she said, you know, can I have your gown? And I said, no, the
Dr. Cedric Howard: gown belongs to me. And she says, you know, in this, you know,
Dr. Cedric Howard: very direct Southern grandmother voice,
Dr. Cedric Howard: baby, if you want to see tomorrow, you will give your nana the gown.
Dr. Cedric Howard: I said, yes, ma'. Am. So I took the gown off and I gave it
Dr. Cedric Howard: to her. At that point in time, it was myself and 11 cousins. I'm the
Dr. Cedric Howard: only child. My father was the only child. So on that side, I was only
Dr. Cedric Howard: child. On my other side of my mother's side, my maternal side, I'm the oldest
Dr. Cedric Howard: of the grandkids. And so my
Dr. Cedric Howard: grandmother asked for my cousins to get into this gown. And she says, from
Dr. Cedric Howard: this standpoint, each of you owe me a
Dr. Cedric Howard: college graduation gown. That is my expectation for you. I don't want any
Dr. Cedric Howard: money. I want college graduation gowns. That day
Dr. Cedric Howard: set the trajectory of my entire family. We're very
Dr. Cedric Howard: fortunate. There's 18 of us now. All 18 have
Dr. Cedric Howard: college degrees. My mother, who was
Dr. Cedric Howard: a young mother who gave birth to me out of
Dr. Cedric Howard: wedlock and eventually we were born into,
Dr. Cedric Howard: at that point in time, what was welfare, went back to college
Dr. Cedric Howard: and went to college when she was in her late fourth 40s.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And then 14 years later, 14 years later,
Dr. Cedric Howard: she's the second doctor my firstborn happens to
Dr. Cedric Howard: be. We consider her to be the real doctor because she actually has a medical
Dr. Cedric Howard: degree. She graduated college with her first degree at 16,
Dr. Cedric Howard: medical school to 21, and now at 26, she's a
Dr. Cedric Howard: practising neurologist. And then we, my son, we refer to him
Dr. Cedric Howard: as the slacker, in part because he's the naval officer
Dr. Cedric Howard: and actually serves in our US Navy. He only has one degree,
Dr. Cedric Howard: so he just graduated a year ago. So we told him he need to step
Dr. Cedric Howard: up his game a bit. But I say all that to say, not that
Dr. Cedric Howard: anything was special about our family other than there was an
Dr. Cedric Howard: inflection point. It was an inflection point where my grandmother said, enough
Dr. Cedric Howard: is enough, you know, I'm tired of us having this cycle
Dr. Cedric Howard: of poverty. And here's now the new expectation.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And so, you know, the youngest, when he just graduated about a
Dr. Cedric Howard: week or so ago, he's taking his gown and actually in a couple of
Dr. Cedric Howard: days we're going to have a ceremony because his 18th gown that we'll put
Dr. Cedric Howard: actually, my grandmother's no longer with us and so we'll put it actually on the
Dr. Cedric Howard: chest on her grave. And that will bring that
Dr. Cedric Howard: version of her vision to fruition. But it has set a
Dr. Cedric Howard: trajectory for a new version of her, who we are. And I would say for
Dr. Cedric Howard: generations to come, we would tell the storey of my grandmother in part because
Dr. Cedric Howard: that day it changed the trajectory of our family.
Joanne Lockwood: That's really powerful. It's so powerful. I didn't get a degree,
Joanne Lockwood: I didn't go to any university, I joined the Royal Air Force, so I joined
Joanne Lockwood: the. I had a military career when I left school and my
Joanne Lockwood: father didn't have a degree either and my mother didn't have a degree. When I
Joanne Lockwood: was growing up, she went back to become a teacher and she got a degree.
Joanne Lockwood: I was already an adult, so I can't really claim that she was a previous
Joanne Lockwood: generation degree holder. She went back afterwards. But our two
Joanne Lockwood: children, our daughter and our son, both had degrees when I grew up.
Joanne Lockwood: It was never an expectation, that part of the education, it was. I was
Joanne Lockwood: brought up in a trade apprenticeship rather than the
Joanne Lockwood: professional side, so my destination was electronics and
Joanne Lockwood: engineering, but I didn't need a degree for that. So, yeah, I mean, all of
Joanne Lockwood: the fact that you started this tradition within your own family and created this
Joanne Lockwood: because it's a belief system. If my parents said to me,
Joanne Lockwood: the expectation in our family is for you to get a degree, my life would
Joanne Lockwood: have gone that direction. But they didn't. Which. It's not good or bad.
Joanne Lockwood: It is, but, yeah, I think fair onto your
Joanne Lockwood: nana. Yeah. And I think, you know,
Dr. Cedric Howard: for many, when they actually, you know, when I, when I do keynotes and I
Dr. Cedric Howard: do speaking engagements, people actually shock so you promote people to
Dr. Cedric Howard: go to college and get a degree. No, I promote you to get an education.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And for some people your education is to go to trade school
Dr. Cedric Howard: or your, your education is to learn how to do the business that you're
Dr. Cedric Howard: seeking. For me and my path is
Dr. Cedric Howard: I need to get a college degree but for others
Dr. Cedric Howard: it may be that you are going to become an electrician or
Dr. Cedric Howard: you're going to get a trade. I promote that there should be some post
Dr. Cedric Howard: secondary education that prepares you to have
Dr. Cedric Howard: a job or trade that provides
Dr. Cedric Howard: support for you and resources for you to live. That is what I
Dr. Cedric Howard: promote as an educator because college and the academy, college of the university
Dr. Cedric Howard: is not for everyone. And I say that, you know, if you have a
Dr. Cedric Howard: tree and you're skilled with your hands, go for it.
Dr. Cedric Howard: My son knew that he wanted to go into the military
Dr. Cedric Howard: and so the compromise was that hey, you
Dr. Cedric Howard: can do this, here's a programme for you to go through. If you're going to
Dr. Cedric Howard: do it, consider being an officer. Well, he was very fortunate in order, in order
Dr. Cedric Howard: for that to occur. But he got his degree and,
Dr. Cedric Howard: and, and, and, and he got his degree in naval
Dr. Cedric Howard: science because that's what he knew he wanted to do. He didn't get it in
Dr. Cedric Howard: another discipline. He knew he wanted to go into Navy, he knew he wanted to
Dr. Cedric Howard: be a lifer, that's what he wanted to do. The
Dr. Cedric Howard: compromise was to get a degree. But if he were to say to me, I
Dr. Cedric Howard: want to go directly in and he was passionate. We've been like son, we're supporting
Dr. Cedric Howard: you, we support you just longest, you're going to have training and
Dr. Cedric Howard: you're going to have a skill set and a trade to live off of.
Dr. Cedric Howard: That is the most important thing from our perspective. When you talk there about the
Joanne Lockwood: educational side and the financial independence, it reminds me of
Joanne Lockwood: the tsunami that was in the 2004
Joanne Lockwood: Sri Lanka and India and around that area. And I was involved
Joanne Lockwood: helping people post that tsunami funds,
Joanne Lockwood: whatever. And I also got involved with a programme that they used to have in
Joanne Lockwood: India called Freedom through Education. And I didn't understand
Joanne Lockwood: what it was until it was explained to me that freedom education was allowing
Joanne Lockwood: the Indian population to break free of colonialism. So that was
Joanne Lockwood: the freedom from colonialism through education. But you
Joanne Lockwood: can apply that metaphor, you generate life choices and
Joanne Lockwood: freedom by being educated, by being marketable, by having
Joanne Lockwood: skills, by having a value in society. So what you're doing there is
Joanne Lockwood: you're giving people a worth, aren't you? Through education? Yeah, and
Dr. Cedric Howard: essence real important. So I give I'm going to give you a fact that
Dr. Cedric Howard: that's going to probably shock you because it shocks many. Now I've been in higher
Dr. Cedric Howard: education, like I said now for 31 years. I'm also an entrepreneur.
Dr. Cedric Howard: So I have a consultant firm that works with leaders and
Dr. Cedric Howard: I have a couple other companies that fall up under my larger
Dr. Cedric Howard: umbrella. I have made more money from being an
Dr. Cedric Howard: entrepreneur than I have from being an educator. So my
Dr. Cedric Howard: entrepreneurial aspects and spirit actually funds for me
Dr. Cedric Howard: being a college administrator. And so
Dr. Cedric Howard: that's why I say I can't frown upon someone who has
Dr. Cedric Howard: a spirit to learn and they may not want to go
Dr. Cedric Howard: sit in a classroom for four or five, six years, but they can go
Dr. Cedric Howard: through an eight week programme, become an entrepreneur and be a successful
Dr. Cedric Howard: business person, they can run a successful trades
Dr. Cedric Howard: operation. Why would I promote that? Why wouldn't I support that? You
Dr. Cedric Howard: know, when I look at my cousin's action number four, because my grandmother referred
Dr. Cedric Howard: to us, not by name, she referred to us when she was alive by numbers.
Dr. Cedric Howard: So she called you by your numbers. I don't think she ever knew all of
Dr. Cedric Howard: our names, she just called, you know, she always got the number right. But
Dr. Cedric Howard: number four actually went into the Navy first and
Dr. Cedric Howard: then got out of the Navy after 20 years. And that's when she went
Dr. Cedric Howard: to college, became a paralegal and now she's an attorney. Now imagine if
Dr. Cedric Howard: we would have said, no, you got to go to school first. She would have
Dr. Cedric Howard: been like, no, that would just not. Would not have been her.
Dr. Cedric Howard: So give people the agency to go down the path
Dr. Cedric Howard: that is most suitable for their desires and who they are as individuals.
Dr. Cedric Howard: Ultimately the life satisfaction and happiness is a lot
Dr. Cedric Howard: more, is a lot more rewarding from that perspective other than forcing people
Dr. Cedric Howard: to do things because, you know, that's the
Dr. Cedric Howard: fad of the day. That is, you know, the issue du jour
Dr. Cedric Howard: and it is the, you know, the, for lack of better. It's a
Dr. Cedric Howard: sexy thing. No, I want it to be sound, not
Dr. Cedric Howard: sexy. I want to make sure that it is going to be sustainable.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And you know, that's where I say that's real talk. That's the educator in
Dr. Cedric Howard: me that says, yes, you could do it, but how you do it may
Dr. Cedric Howard: be very different than how others do it. Yeah,
Joanne Lockwood: I think it's also important for young people to appreciate. You don't have to get
Joanne Lockwood: it right first time when you're 16, 17, 18, 19,
Joanne Lockwood: 20, that age. We often end up making these decisions in our
Joanne Lockwood: life that we get to our late 20s and go
Joanne Lockwood: actually, I'm on the wrong bus. I should be over somewhere doing something else. And
Joanne Lockwood: I think we too often expect our younger people to
Joanne Lockwood: have a destination before they're ready to find one because. We have these
Dr. Cedric Howard: fallacies and scripts. And I said there's four things we have to address
Dr. Cedric Howard: in any situation to change your trajectory. For one,
Dr. Cedric Howard: we have to address, I call them the hates. You have to address the habits,
Dr. Cedric Howard: you have to address the attitudes, you have to address the beliefs, and you also
Dr. Cedric Howard: have to address the expectations. That event that occurred for me when I
Dr. Cedric Howard: graduated changed a habit in our family. It
Dr. Cedric Howard: also changed our attitudes about what we can accomplish.
Dr. Cedric Howard: Then we change our belief system to say, no,
Dr. Cedric Howard: this is attainable. And now we have established a set of
Dr. Cedric Howard: expectations that has allowed us to put systems
Dr. Cedric Howard: that are in place. And so, you know, for us and our family,
Dr. Cedric Howard: because it is a belief system, we have structures
Dr. Cedric Howard: in place to ensure that you're going to get the degree that
Dr. Cedric Howard: you seek. So, you know, you don't have to worry about the funding because we
Dr. Cedric Howard: have a family nonprofit that is set up and trust set up to pay
Dr. Cedric Howard: for those things. The more successful we become as a family, the more
Dr. Cedric Howard: resources that are available for the next generation. And so by
Dr. Cedric Howard: addressing your age, your habits, your attitudes, your
Dr. Cedric Howard: beliefs and your expectations, you can rewrite the mental
Dr. Cedric Howard: models and you can rewrite the self talk and a set of
Dr. Cedric Howard: systems or that are either supporting you and, or
Dr. Cedric Howard: holding you back to make sure that they're aligned appropriately to
Dr. Cedric Howard: get you to where you need to be. Most successful people have
Dr. Cedric Howard: failed oftentimes many more times than they
Dr. Cedric Howard: have succeeded, but they've learned how to deal with that failure. And that is how,
Dr. Cedric Howard: you know, you understand that successful people become successful because they
Dr. Cedric Howard: properly learn how to process failures. So, so they
Dr. Cedric Howard: don't, so they don't continue to go down those same
Dr. Cedric Howard: path. I oftentimes prefer it's the R and D method for individuals.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, I saw a study, I can't remember where I saw it, but it's around
Joanne Lockwood: A grade. Students are less likely to be entrepreneurs because they've
Joanne Lockwood: never experienced failure in the same way that a D grade student or an E
Joanne Lockwood: grade student has always had to live with that failing and
Joanne Lockwood: retrying mentality and, and they learn how to be more resilient.
Dr. Cedric Howard: Yeah, I wrote an article, I don't know, probably 15 years
Dr. Cedric Howard: ago that many universities was kicking out
Dr. Cedric Howard: after the first year, more 4.0 high school students than they were
Dr. Cedric Howard: the 2.5 high school students because the fools had gotten to college.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And they had to learn the survival skills, the grit and resiliency in order
Dr. Cedric Howard: to be able to be successful. They were used to a routine not
Dr. Cedric Howard: figuring things out versus at 2.5, it had some adversity. And
Dr. Cedric Howard: they've learned to figure things out in a way that was productive and
Dr. Cedric Howard: sustainable within a college environment. Don't learn to walk without falling
Joanne Lockwood: over. You have to bump your head, graze your knee. First time you ride a
Joanne Lockwood: motorbike, you're hanging on, you know you've got it, you got to get it wrong
Joanne Lockwood: to get it right. Imagine your kids and my kids,
Dr. Cedric Howard: every time they fell, we ran over to, to pick them up. They would
Dr. Cedric Howard: never learn how to walk. And so we have to allow them
Dr. Cedric Howard: to scrape some things, some, you know, you know, first in order for them to
Dr. Cedric Howard: develop the chops, in order to accomplish the things they need to accomplish.
Joanne Lockwood: Is that one of the challenges we face in today's society where
Joanne Lockwood: we've tried to minimise failure, we've tried, everyone's a winner,
Joanne Lockwood: everyone's an ad. Everyone has come first. We don't, we don't pick out the
Joanne Lockwood: winners and losers anymore because you don't want to make the losers feel bad.
Dr. Cedric Howard: Everyone gets a trophy, everyone gets a participation trophy
Dr. Cedric Howard: versus everyone should have gotten the experience for
Dr. Cedric Howard: participating. And the reward was that you got the
Dr. Cedric Howard: experience. And so I think what we have
Dr. Cedric Howard: done is said we want to make sure that everyone is going to be
Dr. Cedric Howard: valued and seen. I'm not saying disrespect. What I'm saying is that
Dr. Cedric Howard: there's lessons to be learned from the challenges and
Dr. Cedric Howard: there's lessons from, learn from the experiences, trial and error.
Dr. Cedric Howard: So that when you're not there as a parent, when you're not there as a
Dr. Cedric Howard: support structure, they're able to survive.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, I quite happily admit I've spent a lot of my life making
Joanne Lockwood: mistakes and I'm better for it. It's only when you
Joanne Lockwood: make the same mistake repeatedly that you're not learning if you are. Every new
Joanne Lockwood: experience and throughout my 20s, teens,
Joanne Lockwood: 20s, 30s, I've made some huge mistakes in my life.
Joanne Lockwood: Some of them, I look back and go, oh, blimey, I was lucky to get
Joanne Lockwood: away with that, or I didn't get away with it and I deserved not to
Joanne Lockwood: sort of thing. And yeah, you mess up. But now I'm 60 and
Joanne Lockwood: I look back and think I've got all those big value pillars in
Joanne Lockwood: my life that I can look back on and go, actually, I've got core value
Joanne Lockwood: as a result of that. And I'VE got another core value to honesty. Integrity
Joanne Lockwood: came out of being in situations where I was wanting
Joanne Lockwood: for those things and I was coming short and they made
Joanne Lockwood: me realise that actually I don't want to have no integrity and I don't want
Joanne Lockwood: to have no honesty. Those are now my. A bit like
Joanne Lockwood: that film is inside out where you make the core memories drop them down the
Joanne Lockwood: chute. I think these core memories develop myself
Joanne Lockwood: and I know who I am now based on those significant
Joanne Lockwood: self critical moments. Yeah, yeah, that is critical. You
Dr. Cedric Howard: know, I tell you a storey.
Dr. Cedric Howard: One of the physicians asked my daughter said so you know,
Dr. Cedric Howard: you're so much younger than us. I have kids older than you, you know,
Dr. Cedric Howard: how, how do you stand up to us? How do you, you
Dr. Cedric Howard: know, because when we're in a situation you are
Dr. Cedric Howard: commanding the room and you're so young. And she says
Dr. Cedric Howard: my daddy put me in situations where he knew I was going to fail
Dr. Cedric Howard: and he never rescued me. So when I'm in this environment and we're in
Dr. Cedric Howard: the middle of a crisis, I have learned the skills. That
Dr. Cedric Howard: is not about the characteristics that I asude
Dr. Cedric Howard: as or you see as a person. It's the characteristics that I'm bringing
Dr. Cedric Howard: to the situation are to resolve it. So I don't see you
Dr. Cedric Howard: as an elder, I don't see you as. I see you as another medical
Dr. Cedric Howard: provider and we're equals. Can we address the issue
Dr. Cedric Howard: of our patients? Because she understands the lessons
Dr. Cedric Howard: that I've taught about serving students and they should be the core
Dr. Cedric Howard: of what you do. Her patients are her students
Dr. Cedric Howard: and that's the environment that she's in. I put in some in a situation where
Dr. Cedric Howard: I knew that she was going to fail. You know, she was
Dr. Cedric Howard: 11 or 12 and I put her in basketball. She doesn't have an
Dr. Cedric Howard: athletic bone in her body. I knew she was going
Dr. Cedric Howard: to fail but she learned, she didn't give up.
Dr. Cedric Howard: She ultimately, you know, got better at it
Dr. Cedric Howard: and better at it and before
Dr. Cedric Howard: four or five years later, I mean she was one of the top basketball players
Dr. Cedric Howard: in our state and you know,
Dr. Cedric Howard: and ultimately played basketball in college. But she tells the storey
Dr. Cedric Howard: of my dad put me in an environment and I
Dr. Cedric Howard: kick and I claw and I was like I hate
Dr. Cedric Howard: you. And I later realised that was the best thing ever happened to me. Same
Dr. Cedric Howard: as my son, I put him in wrestling because I knew he was not a
Dr. Cedric Howard: good wrestler and he struggled but
Dr. Cedric Howard: now he's learned how to struggle. And so sometimes as
Dr. Cedric Howard: parents, sometimes as more
Dr. Cedric Howard: experienced citizens, we got to put the younger generations,
Dr. Cedric Howard: the younger generation in situations where
Dr. Cedric Howard: they can learn and grow, be there in case they really fall.
Dr. Cedric Howard: But don't pick them up every time they struggle because they're learning
Dr. Cedric Howard: skills, grit, resilience, that'll be much
Dr. Cedric Howard: more conducive for them as adults than had we not put them in
Dr. Cedric Howard: environments that we got put in, put into you. Because you know, oftentimes
Dr. Cedric Howard: our generation just go out and play, just come back, you know, at a certain
Dr. Cedric Howard: time, figure it out, figure out a game to play, you know, figure this
Dr. Cedric Howard: situation out. It is those problem solving skills that I
Dr. Cedric Howard: think are critically important as a part of the situation. And that's what I also
Dr. Cedric Howard: bring with me into higher education. This is not a complex situation.
Dr. Cedric Howard: It is a relatively simple situation.
Dr. Cedric Howard: There's personalities involved that make it complex. So let's remove the
Dr. Cedric Howard: personality and let's actually address what is the core issue. Because
Dr. Cedric Howard: if we address the core issue, the symptom goes away. And
Dr. Cedric Howard: so when there's complex situation, let's take a step back.
Dr. Cedric Howard: I use a five step process I refer to as the nerdy way.
Dr. Cedric Howard: It's something that I publish in one of my books. And nerdy stands for
Dr. Cedric Howard: the N is actually an acronym for knowledge, education,
Dr. Cedric Howard: research, discovery for you. So you look at your knowledge
Dr. Cedric Howard: base, you look at what you do and you, what you know and what you
Dr. Cedric Howard: don't know, then you educate yourself. That's the key.
Dr. Cedric Howard: What, what, where things, what should things be? What are all the information I
Dr. Cedric Howard: need in order to make a decision? The research is actually the
Dr. Cedric Howard: active learning piece where I'm actually learning how to
Dr. Cedric Howard: apply skill set. And then you discover a new you
Dr. Cedric Howard: and that new you is what you implement moving forward. That's how I address
Dr. Cedric Howard: complex situation. Tell me what I know. That's my current
Dr. Cedric Howard: knowledge. I educate myself, which is the process. The research is actually
Dr. Cedric Howard: the application of what I'm doing. Because you're testing things, you're
Dr. Cedric Howard: experimenting and then I come out a better person. That's the
Dr. Cedric Howard: discovery for you. And that is
Dr. Cedric Howard: a bit of a method that I've used to deal with almost every complex
Dr. Cedric Howard: situation. And to this day is always bode well in order
Dr. Cedric Howard: to take a complex situation, simplify and make a lot
Dr. Cedric Howard: easier for people to consume.
Joanne Lockwood: That's a great model and I think that holds you
Joanne Lockwood: in good stead as you get older and older because it also helps you delegate
Joanne Lockwood: as well. I think you don't have to do everything yourself. What you're doing there
Joanne Lockwood: is you're coordinating the resources that you need
Joanne Lockwood: to succeed in whatever you're Doing as an entrepreneur, as an
Joanne Lockwood: employee, wherever you are in that. And by using that model, what you're doing is
Joanne Lockwood: you're mapping out what you need to succeed next. Because
Dr. Cedric Howard: remember, oftentimes when you're dealing with issues, you don't have to be the content
Dr. Cedric Howard: expert. You just have to have that connection and serve as a
Dr. Cedric Howard: connector through the connective tissue with the content expert in order
Dr. Cedric Howard: to resolve the situation and or issue. It's
Joanne Lockwood: like being an astronaut. You need telemetry, you need data, you
Joanne Lockwood: need trajectory, you need to know conditions, you need to go, okay, now I can
Joanne Lockwood: plot my course, and then how am I going to get home again? So you've
Joanne Lockwood: got all those parameters in there to make the best decisions is what you're looking
Joanne Lockwood: for, isn't it? Absolutely. But also as an astronaut, that
Dr. Cedric Howard: is central command and the control unit's job to figure all that stuff out.
Dr. Cedric Howard: Your job is to serve as the pilot of the craft, as you use another
Dr. Cedric Howard: example, trusting your team. Yeah, you're the jockey. You
Joanne Lockwood: just got to push the button at the right time or hang on in there
Joanne Lockwood: when it gets. Yes, yes. You know,
Dr. Cedric Howard: I've learned because I spent some time in England
Dr. Cedric Howard: in 2009 and 10, I was actually working to assist Parliament as
Dr. Cedric Howard: they re look at the academy structure, very similar to the US system.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And one thing I learned is your version of football,
Dr. Cedric Howard: what we call soccer, that it is truly
Dr. Cedric Howard: not just a sport, it's a lifestyle. And that the
Dr. Cedric Howard: communities and city, cities by which these clubs are in
Dr. Cedric Howard: really galvanise around the particular club.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And then of course, there's when to go to elevation and those type of things.
Dr. Cedric Howard: So it reminds us kind of of the situation. The clubs
Dr. Cedric Howard: need the communities that they reside in. The communities
Dr. Cedric Howard: need the clubs because the soccer
Dr. Cedric Howard: teams become an economic driver for those particular communities
Dr. Cedric Howard: and a sense of pride. And so you need each other to support each
Dr. Cedric Howard: other in order for all parts and partners to be successful.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. And the team brings the community together. You've got something to get
Joanne Lockwood: behind. The wins, the losses, the hope, the dreams, the,
Joanne Lockwood: the celebrations. And that shared lived experience all comes from that
Joanne Lockwood: sporting occasion, doesn't it? I think you have it in the US as well. We
Joanne Lockwood: have the basketball, you have the ice hockey, you have the college football, the
Joanne Lockwood: varsities, you have the same things, don't you, in your own way.
Dr. Cedric Howard: Yeah, but our version of it is NFL football, professional football, it's kind of
Dr. Cedric Howard: similar. It's just, you know, the tackle football is what everybody kind of
Dr. Cedric Howard: galvanise around and drive communities to support each
Dr. Cedric Howard: other. You're either a football,
Joanne Lockwood: American football fan or a hockey fan or a basketball. You
Joanne Lockwood: tend to polarise again around your sport tribe, don't you?
Dr. Cedric Howard: That is certainly the case. The most divided time
Dr. Cedric Howard: at any time is the moment that your team is playing.
Dr. Cedric Howard: That is the most divided time in any community and or organisation,
Dr. Cedric Howard: because you're always supporting your team. Yeah. And as you're
Joanne Lockwood: probably aware, in the uk, we've got a lot of clubs, big
Joanne Lockwood: clubs in. So Manchester's got two big clubs, Liverpool's
Joanne Lockwood: got two big clubs, London's got half a dozen big clubs.
Joanne Lockwood: And where I live, Portsmouth, we've got a rival club just down the road called
Joanne Lockwood: Southampton. So we've always been this. The red team and the blue team and other
Joanne Lockwood: cities you get the red team and the blue team. It really plays into that,
Joanne Lockwood: that sort of tribalism and partisanship. It's for
Joanne Lockwood: the good. But sometimes it does spill over into excess passion sometimes, doesn't
Joanne Lockwood: it? Yeah, sometimes when we allow the liquid
Dr. Cedric Howard: courage libation to get involved, the
Dr. Cedric Howard: interventions kind of go away and we kind of get a little bit
Dr. Cedric Howard: more animated than we should. Here's a metaphor.
Joanne Lockwood: That's where we need to duct tape our people to a lamppost, isn't
Joanne Lockwood: it? Well said, my friend. Well said. I still think
Joanne Lockwood: that's insightful that you found the duct tape and you had the foresight to
Joanne Lockwood: think this is the way of de escalating. Great insight. Yeah, well,
Dr. Cedric Howard: kind of the metaphor in my life is duct tape has held so many things
Dr. Cedric Howard: together in my life, especially as a youth. I knew that it was going to
Dr. Cedric Howard: hold whatever it was stuck to. And so it was kind of my
Dr. Cedric Howard: genesis in higher education. And it's kind of what I've used to hold things together
Dr. Cedric Howard: throughout life. It reminds me of the storey, your
Joanne Lockwood: particular one, as you were. As you were telling your duck tape storey at the
Joanne Lockwood: beginning, it reminded me of a situation I was in probably 20 years ago.
Joanne Lockwood: I was in his club and a friend of mine
Joanne Lockwood: decided that he was too lazy to go to
Joanne Lockwood: the restroom to use the toilet. He decided he wanted to nip out the fire
Joanne Lockwood: exit and just do his business just outside, because it was a lot easier.
Joanne Lockwood: And of course, he set the alarm off on the fire exit. He came back
Joanne Lockwood: in and then security surrounded him. So there's probably about five
Joanne Lockwood: or six big, big security guards. Six, four, six, five. And
Joanne Lockwood: it was kind of middling and they just surrounded him. And I looked at
Joanne Lockwood: this and thought, it's like a bear pit, you know, he was like being baited
Joanne Lockwood: by these people. He was a bit drunk. He'd lost his rational mind.
Joanne Lockwood: And I could just see this going really badly wrong. They wanted to
Joanne Lockwood: arrest him, throw him out, kick him. I don't know. This was going
Joanne Lockwood: really bad. For some reason I had the foresight to just walk
Joanne Lockwood: into the middle of the circle and put my arms around him and give him
Joanne Lockwood: the biggest hug and he's going to get off me. I said, I'm not
Joanne Lockwood: letting you go. If I let you go, this is going to end
Joanne Lockwood: badly. You must now listen to me. Shut up and
Joanne Lockwood: just be compliant. Listen to my voice. Listen to my voice. And he
Joanne Lockwood: calmed down. I said to everybody, I've got him, I've got him, it's okay,
Joanne Lockwood: I'll walk him out. And they went, okay, and we over to diffuse and walk
Joanne Lockwood: it out. And that was my duct tape moment. It just takes that, that, that
Joanne Lockwood: calmness to just take the heat out of that situation. Doesn't.
Dr. Cedric Howard: Takes someone to diffuse the situation, but you don't know it. In a
Dr. Cedric Howard: moment, it becomes somewhat instinctive. You just knew
Dr. Cedric Howard: that you needed to do something. And in reflection,
Dr. Cedric Howard: post mortem is when you look at and say, I don't know if I should
Dr. Cedric Howard: have done that, but it resolved the issue.
Joanne Lockwood: Well, I think we all need to have a group of friends with a safe
Joanne Lockwood: word. So that when things are, when you are not thinking through
Joanne Lockwood: your rational brain, your amygdala kicked in, not your prefrontal cortex,
Joanne Lockwood: you're really into that adrenaline mode. Someone just needs to come up with that word.
Joanne Lockwood: And you go, ah, that's my de. Escalation word. Okay.
Joanne Lockwood: Like picking a cat up by the back of the neck. It goes all floppy.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, it just, we just need that, that something to just trigger your front brain
Joanne Lockwood: going, I get it now I'm being an ass. I need to stop. Yeah,
Dr. Cedric Howard: absolutely. Especially in this era of cameras and
Dr. Cedric Howard: social media because it lives forever. You much
Dr. Cedric Howard: rather take a, have a moment to pause and for someone to say, hey, I'm
Dr. Cedric Howard: gonna, I'm, I'm, I'm going to intervene. You could be upset with me for
Dr. Cedric Howard: the moment, but this moment won't live forever because when it
Dr. Cedric Howard: escalates, you know, and gets out of head, it's going to be a lot worse
Dr. Cedric Howard: when you see it and you're going to say, you should have stopped me. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: And usually, well, I couldn't stop you. That's what I mean. We just need
Joanne Lockwood: that, need that magic click, don't you? To go, ah, okay,
Joanne Lockwood: I get it now and you say duct tape them to the lamppost or give
Joanne Lockwood: them a massive hug, something like that, just to snap them out. Isn't that what
Dr. Cedric Howard: friends are for? That's exactly what friends are for. Yeah. You need them in a
Dr. Cedric Howard: time of concern and crisis. That's a true friend
Dr. Cedric Howard: that can intervene in that point in time when things are, you know,
Dr. Cedric Howard: going well, you know, friends are there, but you don't really
Dr. Cedric Howard: need them. You need them in a time of crisis and concern. You need people
Dr. Cedric Howard: who are going to intervene on you in your stead. I think that's. That's
Dr. Cedric Howard: critically important for life and that's a life lesson we can all take
Dr. Cedric Howard: from, you know, with us, from this particular conversation.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, no, that's. That's a. That's an excellent takeaway for me. Is
Joanne Lockwood: duct taping your friend to a lamppost just to save him. Yes. I like it,
Joanne Lockwood: I like it, I like it. Yeah. Don't recommend it as a. As I
Joanne Lockwood: carrying the duct tape every time, but at least the metaphor is real. Yeah, I
Joanne Lockwood: love it. Yeah. Cedric, it's been absolutely fascinating.
Joanne Lockwood: We can rabbit on for. For hours. I know. Tell me how people get
Joanne Lockwood: ahold of you. So simple way to follow me is
Dr. Cedric Howard: on social media and. Or my website. So social media
Dr. Cedric Howard: is always Cedric B Howard, C E, D R I C B Howard.
Dr. Cedric Howard: And my website is cedricbhoward.com and so
Dr. Cedric Howard: you can always follow me on all the major social media
Dr. Cedric Howard: platforms and on my website. Excellent. Well, we're connected on LinkedIn,
Joanne Lockwood: so when this episode goes out, I'll make sure your LinkedIn's tagged
Joanne Lockwood: and it'll go out on Instagram as well. And all your social links will be
Joanne Lockwood: in the show notes below. So, yeah, absolutely fantastic. So, Cedric,
Joanne Lockwood: thank you so much for your time. It's been amazing having a chat.
Dr. Cedric Howard: Thank you, my friend. As we bring this
Joanne Lockwood: conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest
Joanne Lockwood: gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear
Joanne Lockwood: and heart to the cause of inclusion.
Joanne Lockwood: Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing into
Joanne Lockwood: Inclusion bites and become part of our ever growing community
Joanne Lockwood: driving real change. Share this journey with friends, family and
Joanne Lockwood: colleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter.
Joanne Lockwood: Got thoughts, storeys or a vision to share? I'm all
Joanne Lockwood: ears. Reach out to
Joanne Lockwood: jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk
Joanne Lockwood: and let's make your voice heard. Until next time, this
Joanne Lockwood: is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with
Joanne Lockwood: more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire and
Joanne Lockwood: unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world. One
Joanne Lockwood: episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.