WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:00.560 Foreign. 2 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.320 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.200 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 4 00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:18.720 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 5 00:00:18.720 --> 00:00:22.640 inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. 6 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:27.040 Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone 7 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:30.760 not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. 8 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:35.200 Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge 9 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.760 the status quo and share storeys that resonate 10 00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:42.480 deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're 11 00:00:42.480 --> 00:00:46.400 sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's 12 00:00:46.400 --> 00:00:50.360 connect, reflect and inspire action together. 13 00:00:51.080 --> 00:00:54.870 Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out 14 00:00:54.870 --> 00:00:58.670 to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 15 00:00:59.070 --> 00:01:02.590 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 16 00:01:03.470 --> 00:01:07.230 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 17 00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:10.830 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 18 00:01:15.710 --> 00:01:19.460 And today is episode 190 with the 19 00:01:19.460 --> 00:01:23.460 title Leadership, Learning and Belonging. And I 20 00:01:23.460 --> 00:01:27.020 have the absolute honour and Privilege to welcome Dr. Cedric Howard. 21 00:01:27.660 --> 00:01:31.580 Cedric is a higher educational thought leader and financial 22 00:01:31.660 --> 00:01:35.380 empowerment advocate who is dedicated to breaking cycles of 23 00:01:35.380 --> 00:01:38.940 poverty through inclusive leadership and real world impact. 24 00:01:39.660 --> 00:01:43.540 And when I asked Cedric to describe his superpower, he said that it 25 00:01:43.540 --> 00:01:47.200 is translating complex policy into everyday storeys 26 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:51.640 that inspire actionable change. Hello, Cedric. Welcome to 27 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:55.480 the show. Thank you. I'm honoured to be here. Looking 28 00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:59.400 forward to the conversation. Absolute pleasure. So 29 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:01.839 we were chatting in the green room just before we went live and I think 30 00:02:01.839 --> 00:02:04.880 you said you were in North America at some place. 31 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:09.840 Yes, you talk about sleepless in Seattle. I'm in the wonderful 32 00:02:10.160 --> 00:02:14.130 city of Seattle. Seattle. And I 33 00:02:14.130 --> 00:02:17.490 guessed this correctly, so this is not cheating. I guessed it was in Washington state 34 00:02:17.490 --> 00:02:21.370 and I just. Yes, we're 35 00:02:21.370 --> 00:02:24.970 nested between California, Oregon and British 36 00:02:24.970 --> 00:02:28.890 Columbia, Canada. So I get. I've been to 37 00:02:28.890 --> 00:02:32.890 New York a few times, I've been to Miami a few times, I've been to 38 00:02:33.530 --> 00:02:36.330 San Diego, San Francisco and L.A. 39 00:02:37.380 --> 00:02:40.980 What's the Seattle culture like as a state? Or do you have an identity? 40 00:02:41.860 --> 00:02:45.660 Yes, we have what is called 41 00:02:45.660 --> 00:02:49.300 Seattle. Nice. It is the place everyone 42 00:02:49.460 --> 00:02:52.740 likes to come to when they enjoy 43 00:02:53.060 --> 00:02:56.860 moderate weather because it's pretty much between 40 and 70 year 44 00:02:56.860 --> 00:03:00.580 round. A hot day for us is like 45 00:03:00.580 --> 00:03:04.350 72. Not a lot of snow, especially 46 00:03:04.350 --> 00:03:08.350 on the i5 corridor door. But it's the place you come when you want 47 00:03:08.350 --> 00:03:12.270 to just relax, chill, get you a cup of. Of coffee. Of course, 48 00:03:12.270 --> 00:03:16.070 you know we're known for being the home for a famous coffee place 49 00:03:16.070 --> 00:03:19.950 that shall remain nameless. Yes, of course, but. 50 00:03:19.950 --> 00:03:23.950 Of course, but no, it is a place that I have Grown 51 00:03:23.950 --> 00:03:27.950 to love, in part because it is a place where your 52 00:03:27.950 --> 00:03:31.870 identity and who you are as a person is accepted. And our neighbourhood. I grew 53 00:03:31.870 --> 00:03:35.790 up in the southern part of the United States where race was an issue, 54 00:03:35.870 --> 00:03:39.710 either things were black or white, and where you went, you knew 55 00:03:39.710 --> 00:03:43.310 based upon your ethnic makeup here, whether. 56 00:03:43.790 --> 00:03:47.510 Whether you are straight, gay, black, white, however you 57 00:03:47.510 --> 00:03:51.390 decide to identify is well embraced and welcome, in part because 58 00:03:51.470 --> 00:03:55.150 the Pacific Northwest community is one that looks at 59 00:03:55.150 --> 00:03:57.790 inclusion as an asset 60 00:03:58.990 --> 00:04:02.870 and we embrace it. If you were to go into my neighbourhood, or you were 61 00:04:02.870 --> 00:04:06.870 to go into my place of business, where my office is 62 00:04:06.870 --> 00:04:10.830 located, I mean, sometimes people refer to it 63 00:04:10.830 --> 00:04:14.470 as United nations because you may hear two or three different 64 00:04:14.470 --> 00:04:18.390 languages just as you're entering the door or you're playing outside with the 65 00:04:18.390 --> 00:04:22.270 kids. Pacific Northwest, I've heard that term. I never really associated that with a 66 00:04:22.270 --> 00:04:26.110 geographical language location. But, yeah, obvious, isn't it? You're on the Pacific 67 00:04:26.110 --> 00:04:30.030 and you're in the Northwest. So, yeah, you mentioned the i5. I didn't 68 00:04:30.030 --> 00:04:33.390 realise it went all that way up. It goes all the way from basically 69 00:04:33.790 --> 00:04:37.630 Mexico all the way through, up to Washington State then, does it? 70 00:04:38.190 --> 00:04:42.190 That is certainly the case. Certainly the case. Unfortunately. You know, one of the, 71 00:04:42.350 --> 00:04:46.310 I would say the liabilities of being in the Pacific Northwest is 72 00:04:46.310 --> 00:04:50.190 because it's so green, we have a lot of allergies that are blooming during 73 00:04:50.190 --> 00:04:54.030 this time of season. So we have to adjust and adapt from that perspective. Other 74 00:04:54.030 --> 00:04:56.490 than that, that's the worst we have to deal with here. 75 00:04:57.770 --> 00:05:01.290 So you're on the i5 all the way at the top, aren't you? So I, 76 00:05:01.690 --> 00:05:05.610 I, I bumped into the i5 in San Diego, in LA 77 00:05:05.610 --> 00:05:09.530 when I was there. And my claim 78 00:05:09.530 --> 00:05:13.410 to fame is I went to Mexico by mistake. I was driving down the 79 00:05:13.410 --> 00:05:16.930 i5 and was chatting away and, and missed the sign said last US 80 00:05:16.930 --> 00:05:20.730 Exit and then next sign is welcome to Mexico. And 81 00:05:20.810 --> 00:05:24.030 it was a, a bit of a, kind of like, oh, that was a mistake. 82 00:05:24.750 --> 00:05:28.430 It was an aha moment. Yeah. So if you would continue north, you would take 83 00:05:28.430 --> 00:05:31.790 the eye up through Oregon and into 84 00:05:31.790 --> 00:05:35.790 Washington and you will eventually end at the Canadian 85 00:05:35.790 --> 00:05:39.710 border. So it literally goes from Canada to Mexico along 86 00:05:39.710 --> 00:05:43.630 that coast? Yeah. Yes, yes. Literally, it is 87 00:05:43.630 --> 00:05:46.030 the gateway between three different countries. 88 00:05:47.640 --> 00:05:51.640 Wow. Yeah. When I was in, I worked in LA for a 89 00:05:51.640 --> 00:05:54.680 while and we did spend a bit of time cruising up and down 90 00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:58.520 the pch. Yes. Yeah. Pacific. 91 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:03.040 Yeah. So you go there, all the RVs on the side of the road, parking 92 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:06.760 over the, looking over the Pacific, and you just go on and on and on. 93 00:06:06.760 --> 00:06:10.720 There's back to back RVs for 20, 30, half 94 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:14.650 an hour as you're driving them. Yeah, well, see, you know, the uniqueness of 95 00:06:14.650 --> 00:06:18.610 being in some place like the Pacific Northwest is in part because 96 00:06:18.690 --> 00:06:22.570 all of the Californians, actually many 97 00:06:22.570 --> 00:06:25.890 of them have residents here in Washington state, 98 00:06:26.770 --> 00:06:30.650 in part because of our tax system. You know, California 99 00:06:30.650 --> 00:06:34.570 is a high tax state. In Washington State we 100 00:06:34.570 --> 00:06:37.890 don't have a state income tax. And so 101 00:06:38.870 --> 00:06:42.630 you can, as we say, you make your money in California, 102 00:06:42.630 --> 00:06:46.470 but you have your permanent residence and address here in Washington 103 00:06:46.470 --> 00:06:50.190 state so that you don't have to necessarily pay the taxes or as many taxes 104 00:06:50.190 --> 00:06:54.070 on your income. And that's kind of what we, what we're known for. 105 00:06:54.309 --> 00:06:57.590 What I oftentimes say about being in Pacific Northwest, 106 00:06:57.990 --> 00:07:01.870 it is the utopian community that you didn't 107 00:07:01.870 --> 00:07:05.760 know existed. And I have to say that very 108 00:07:05.760 --> 00:07:08.800 respectfully, in part because when people come here 109 00:07:09.520 --> 00:07:13.080 and they're walking around and they're trying to, you know, enjoy the 110 00:07:13.080 --> 00:07:16.960 sights, whether it is a space Needle or they're going to, 111 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:21.080 you know, see some of, you know, because, you know, literally in, in 112 00:07:21.080 --> 00:07:25.040 Seattle you could be fishing in the Pacific Ocean 113 00:07:25.440 --> 00:07:29.320 and then literally an hour from, from, from there you could be 114 00:07:29.320 --> 00:07:33.190 skiing all in the same morning or same afternoon 115 00:07:33.990 --> 00:07:37.750 because we go from actually sea level 116 00:07:37.750 --> 00:07:41.590 all the way up through the point where you have Mount Rainier. 117 00:07:43.190 --> 00:07:47.110 And so it is a diverse community that people, you know, fall 118 00:07:47.110 --> 00:07:50.510 in love with. But when you come here, the thing that most people are surprised 119 00:07:50.510 --> 00:07:54.230 is just how genuinely kind people are. 120 00:07:55.760 --> 00:07:59.520 And three out of the top 10 zip codes, United States 121 00:07:59.520 --> 00:08:03.040 for its diversity is here in metropolitan Seattle area. 122 00:08:03.520 --> 00:08:07.400 I giggled because I said, wait till you see the insurance 123 00:08:07.400 --> 00:08:10.880 commercials. And so there's insurance commercials 124 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:15.200 where people are literally at four way stops and they say, you go. No, 125 00:08:15.200 --> 00:08:19.160 you go. No, you go, you go. And no one can decide who 126 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:22.080 to go because people are just so kind and so nice, 127 00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:27.320 you know, and that could be a bit shocking because you begin to 128 00:08:27.320 --> 00:08:30.400 suspect something's wrong. And I think it's just a community environment 129 00:08:31.840 --> 00:08:35.840 that have really been cultivated here in the Seattle area. 130 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:39.800 Sounds heavenly. Maybe in a few years time when it's safe to travel 131 00:08:39.800 --> 00:08:43.800 again. I may venture that way. You never know. That is 132 00:08:43.800 --> 00:08:47.560 certainly the case. I mean, we have a much larger issue 133 00:08:47.560 --> 00:08:51.000 around travel and Visa and other things that we're dealing with here in the United 134 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:54.660 States that I think is something that is a bit of an 135 00:08:54.660 --> 00:08:58.340 overcast in relations 136 00:08:58.420 --> 00:09:01.940 to travel and how we deal with things. So. Well said. Yeah, 137 00:09:02.740 --> 00:09:06.700 it's a bit complex right now, so we'll just wait for clarity and 138 00:09:06.700 --> 00:09:08.740 see what happens. Anyway, so 139 00:09:10.660 --> 00:09:14.180 you're an educational thought leader. What does that mean? 140 00:09:15.380 --> 00:09:19.300 How did that come about? So it was actually a mistake, 141 00:09:19.300 --> 00:09:22.760 to be quite honest and frank. I got into higher education 142 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:26.840 literally. You know, people say, never waste a good crisis. 143 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:31.240 And my actually introduction to higher education was 144 00:09:31.640 --> 00:09:35.280 a crisis. And I had used it to maximise the 145 00:09:35.280 --> 00:09:39.200 opportunity and really cultivate and create and curate 146 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:42.320 a career that has led to me being considered a thought leader here in the 147 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:46.120 United states. So in 1993, 148 00:09:46.760 --> 00:09:50.040 it was the first recorded case of police 149 00:09:50.900 --> 00:09:53.940 officers actually, you know, abusing 150 00:09:54.900 --> 00:09:58.340 a person. And that person's name was Rodney King. 151 00:09:59.060 --> 00:10:02.900 I happened to be working at a university as a student 152 00:10:03.780 --> 00:10:07.700 and that day my campus was 153 00:10:07.700 --> 00:10:11.420 in the state of Georgia. And actually the 154 00:10:11.420 --> 00:10:15.340 campus, very proud of being a graduate of that institution, was 155 00:10:15.340 --> 00:10:19.160 the very first capital of Georgia. It actually sits geographically in the 156 00:10:19.160 --> 00:10:23.120 centre of the state and the governor's mansion is on campus. And 157 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:26.880 so a couple blocks from there is the residence hall, very large Residence 158 00:10:26.880 --> 00:10:30.880 hall, about 800 students that resided there. And that day 159 00:10:30.880 --> 00:10:32.960 we had just literally finished playing 160 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:38.400 intramural basketball and everyone was having fun. 161 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:42.080 And when the verdict happened on the 162 00:10:44.470 --> 00:10:48.470 the Pacific coast in California, three hours later, those same people were 163 00:10:48.630 --> 00:10:52.190 actually physically attacking each other because of the 164 00:10:52.190 --> 00:10:56.190 verdict. And of course, like I said, everything in the south, especially back then, was 165 00:10:56.190 --> 00:10:59.910 black and white. So you had friends that were getting along now, attacking each other 166 00:11:00.230 --> 00:11:03.910 based upon their colour. And I'm a relatively big 167 00:11:03.910 --> 00:11:07.750 guy, you know, six, four. And so I did something 168 00:11:07.750 --> 00:11:11.200 that I thought I would regret, but actually 169 00:11:11.280 --> 00:11:15.200 became the springboard for my career. I ran into the resident 170 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:19.120 assistant's office and got duck taped and I went and 171 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:22.920 grabbed people because they respected me. At that point in time, I was student body 172 00:11:22.920 --> 00:11:26.920 vice president and had just been named Hong Kong King for the 173 00:11:26.920 --> 00:11:30.640 campus. And I began to duct take people to telegram polls 174 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:34.920 to. If you stay still long enough, 175 00:11:34.920 --> 00:11:38.160 I would duct tape you to someone else just so you can fight each other. 176 00:11:39.130 --> 00:11:42.930 Well, the next day I got called to the president's office and the vice president 177 00:11:42.930 --> 00:11:46.450 was there and the chief of police was there and I knew that I was 178 00:11:46.450 --> 00:11:50.370 getting, you know, suspended and expelled from school. And they literally 179 00:11:50.370 --> 00:11:54.129 said to me, hey, Cedric, when we begin this and your 180 00:11:54.129 --> 00:11:57.610 name came up, we were shocked because we was like, Cedric was involved. 181 00:11:57.850 --> 00:12:01.330 I can't believe he was, you know, involved in this particular situation in a negative 182 00:12:01.330 --> 00:12:05.250 way and realised, no, you were actually the saving grace. And so, no, you're not 183 00:12:05.250 --> 00:12:08.960 getting kicked out of school. What we would like to offer you is an opportunity 184 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:12.880 to consider higher education as a profession. And 185 00:12:12.880 --> 00:12:16.600 I said, as a profession? They said, yes, we go to school to become 186 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:20.560 college administrators. I said, I've never heard of that before. They said, 187 00:12:20.560 --> 00:12:24.320 well, when you graduate next year, we would like to recommend you to a couple 188 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:28.040 of schools. Which they did. And I was accepted. And ultimately that 189 00:12:28.040 --> 00:12:31.800 became the springboard and trajectory of a career that 190 00:12:31.800 --> 00:12:35.600 has spanned more than 30 years. And so that has evolved into 191 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:39.680 me really curating my career to say as a first 192 00:12:39.680 --> 00:12:43.560 generation college student, which I am, how do I create an 193 00:12:43.560 --> 00:12:47.440 environment where people that are similar to me, people that are coming from disadvantaged 194 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:51.040 backgrounds, people that are students that are coming from less than 195 00:12:51.040 --> 00:12:54.680 desired socioeconomic classes into the. Give them a 196 00:12:54.680 --> 00:12:58.680 gateway into the academy. And so that's how I have created my 197 00:12:58.680 --> 00:13:02.470 career. And because of that, when there's a thought that 198 00:13:02.470 --> 00:13:06.310 needed to be considered and, or interview, you know, just 199 00:13:06.310 --> 00:13:10.230 this last week I've been interviewed by Forbes and, and 200 00:13:10.230 --> 00:13:14.110 Yahoo Finance. And just think over my career, I've been interviewed 201 00:13:14.430 --> 00:13:17.390 for north of 150 publications. 202 00:13:18.590 --> 00:13:22.110 When there's a question that is been 203 00:13:22.430 --> 00:13:26.190 batted back and forth around, you know, how does this affect the student experience 204 00:13:26.190 --> 00:13:29.870 and affect students. Usually I'm getting a call in order to 205 00:13:30.990 --> 00:13:34.910 provide some narrative. But it all began a chance situation, 206 00:13:35.630 --> 00:13:39.590 you know, in April of 1993 because of the 207 00:13:39.590 --> 00:13:43.470 Rodney King situation. And some action I 208 00:13:43.470 --> 00:13:47.150 took actually led me into a career 209 00:13:47.230 --> 00:13:50.430 of being a higher education administrator and then ultimately 210 00:13:51.550 --> 00:13:54.750 a college professor and 211 00:13:56.210 --> 00:13:59.970 writing chapters and books for the profession. 212 00:13:59.970 --> 00:14:03.930 And now I'm considered to be a thought leader and as the 213 00:14:03.930 --> 00:14:07.890 young people say, an OG and a higher education og kind of the old 214 00:14:07.890 --> 00:14:11.410 guard, you know, even though I tell them I'm not, I don't look as old 215 00:14:11.410 --> 00:14:15.330 as I actually am. As you talk about. I've got loads of questions in my 216 00:14:15.330 --> 00:14:18.490 head that I just want to, I really want to dive in there. Please go 217 00:14:18.490 --> 00:14:22.170 ahead. For those listening, who is 218 00:14:22.170 --> 00:14:26.070 Rodney King? I've heard the name as being outside of the 219 00:14:26.070 --> 00:14:29.870 U.S. i don't know the storey. And it was what, 22 years ago? 220 00:14:29.870 --> 00:14:33.830 23 years ago. What's the quick storey about who Rodney 221 00:14:33.830 --> 00:14:37.230 King was? Yes, so Rodney King actually 222 00:14:38.350 --> 00:14:42.190 was, believe it or not, was 32 years ago. It was in 1993, 223 00:14:42.350 --> 00:14:45.950 California. We talk about the PCH. Rodney King 224 00:14:46.350 --> 00:14:50.350 was the first actual recorded police beating of a 225 00:14:50.350 --> 00:14:54.330 citizen. And it was on. It was a situation in California where he 226 00:14:54.330 --> 00:14:58.170 was a driver that was pulled over and you know, dozens of 227 00:14:58.170 --> 00:15:02.090 police Officers responded and he was. There was a recording 228 00:15:02.090 --> 00:15:06.010 of four police officers beating him hundreds of times. 229 00:15:06.090 --> 00:15:09.490 And it was the. You know, for me, it became the 230 00:15:09.490 --> 00:15:13.330 introduction of recorded activity and actions that 231 00:15:13.330 --> 00:15:17.290 was uploaded from a camcorder and 232 00:15:17.370 --> 00:15:21.350 that video went viral before we knew the term viral across 233 00:15:21.350 --> 00:15:25.230 the world. And then ultimately there was a case of those 234 00:15:25.230 --> 00:15:28.830 four police officers with the video and they were acquitted 235 00:15:29.150 --> 00:15:32.870 and said that their actions were just. And that ignited. It 236 00:15:32.870 --> 00:15:36.270 sparked a lot of racial tension and frustration 237 00:15:36.510 --> 00:15:40.510 within the United States. So that's kind of the premise of, you 238 00:15:40.510 --> 00:15:44.110 know, some people have heard of George Floyd, but this was the original case 239 00:15:44.450 --> 00:15:48.210 before George Floyd happened. Rodney King was the very 240 00:15:48.210 --> 00:15:51.010 first recorded police case of 241 00:15:51.490 --> 00:15:55.130 brutality here in the United States. As a black man 242 00:15:55.130 --> 00:15:59.130 yourself, a part of the community, you must have been outraged as 243 00:15:59.130 --> 00:16:02.850 well, just from a racial community point of view. But 244 00:16:03.410 --> 00:16:07.330 how were you feeling at the time? Well, I didn't know how 245 00:16:07.330 --> 00:16:11.250 to feel at the time. You know, at this time, you know, I'm not even, 246 00:16:12.010 --> 00:16:14.810 you know, I'm not even. I think I was like 19 or 20 247 00:16:16.090 --> 00:16:20.090 and, you know, and I'm a college student. And I realised that in our 248 00:16:20.330 --> 00:16:23.610 campus, I mean, we're only 5% of the student population. 249 00:16:24.330 --> 00:16:27.210 And here I am as a student body officer 250 00:16:28.330 --> 00:16:31.930 and, you know, recognised by our community. For me, 251 00:16:32.570 --> 00:16:36.530 I was raised in an environment and just knowing my 252 00:16:36.530 --> 00:16:40.130 storey, I was raised, you know, one of. One of my things 253 00:16:40.130 --> 00:16:44.040 I've done for its financial literacy and that part, and I'm kind of circle back 254 00:16:44.040 --> 00:16:47.880 around is I go into communities, I tell the storey of how I went from 255 00:16:47.880 --> 00:16:51.640 welfare to wealth and generational wealth. And 256 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:55.960 part of it was that I was raised in a community that took care of 257 00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:59.640 each other, where, you know, your neighbour's needs were your needs. 258 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:03.920 And so I took that same thought into the 259 00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:07.400 academy, into the university. And so as a resident 260 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:11.260 assistant living in our residence hall, I went into a 261 00:17:11.260 --> 00:17:15.060 community saying, okay, why are we fighting each other for no reason? I mean, we're 262 00:17:15.060 --> 00:17:18.940 friends. And so I just went into action the same way I would 263 00:17:18.940 --> 00:17:22.740 have been in the inner city had I been at home. If something's happened, you 264 00:17:22.740 --> 00:17:26.580 just jump into action. And so I didn't see myself as 265 00:17:26.580 --> 00:17:30.580 a large black man now after the fact I did. But during 266 00:17:30.580 --> 00:17:34.580 the situation, I saw myself as a student body officer. I saw myself as an 267 00:17:34.580 --> 00:17:38.460 agent of the institution. I saw myself as interacting with friends 268 00:17:38.540 --> 00:17:42.380 that had a relationship. So this wasn't transactional, this relational. 269 00:17:42.780 --> 00:17:46.540 And I think that allowed me to take off 270 00:17:47.100 --> 00:17:51.100 the blinders that would have blinded me Had I thought about, 271 00:17:51.740 --> 00:17:55.660 I'm a large black man about to go and grab someone who's not black, 272 00:17:55.820 --> 00:17:59.420 because that would have, you know, fear would have forced me, you know, to 273 00:17:59.420 --> 00:18:03.260 forfeit ultimately what became my promise. And I'm very 274 00:18:03.260 --> 00:18:06.800 fortunate that it did. It. It takes a. Well, with hindsight, it must have taken 275 00:18:06.800 --> 00:18:10.600 a really. It's been ingrained in your psyche and personality that 276 00:18:10.600 --> 00:18:14.320 you were looking for resolution and to pull 277 00:18:14.320 --> 00:18:18.120 together rather than get angry and push apart. That must take a real kind 278 00:18:18.120 --> 00:18:22.000 of core value of yours that you've brought through. Well, one of my core 279 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:25.800 values as a person and as an educator is the greatest 280 00:18:25.800 --> 00:18:29.800 struggle you have to overcome is the one within yourself. If you can't win the 281 00:18:29.800 --> 00:18:33.690 battle of your own thoughts and the self talk and rewire your 282 00:18:33.690 --> 00:18:37.410 mind to think positive and seek positivity, 283 00:18:37.730 --> 00:18:41.610 then you're already defeated. And so I live 284 00:18:41.610 --> 00:18:45.610 my lifelong perspective that a crisis 285 00:18:45.610 --> 00:18:49.410 or a threat is nothing more than opportunity. No simply means 286 00:18:49.570 --> 00:18:53.490 another option. And so I have to look at my life from that 287 00:18:53.490 --> 00:18:57.490 perspective, not from a deficit mindset. And I oftentimes say that 288 00:18:57.490 --> 00:19:01.310 if we begin with that, then you and I have 289 00:19:01.310 --> 00:19:04.870 never met each other, but there's a kinship that we can 290 00:19:04.870 --> 00:19:08.510 engage in a conversation with honesty and 291 00:19:09.070 --> 00:19:12.990 in a authentic manner that I think is beneficial 292 00:19:12.990 --> 00:19:16.950 for others that review this particular conversation. Now, if we begin 293 00:19:16.950 --> 00:19:20.830 from that perspective, we've already won. We've already set 294 00:19:20.830 --> 00:19:24.710 an environment, an ecosystem that we can learn from each other. And 295 00:19:24.710 --> 00:19:28.710 I think that is critical in any conversation and debate to give 296 00:19:28.710 --> 00:19:32.710 that person the agency to be who they are 297 00:19:32.710 --> 00:19:36.470 and to respect who they are. And so that's the way I approach 298 00:19:36.550 --> 00:19:39.950 life. That's who I am as a professional, who I am in, you know, in 299 00:19:39.950 --> 00:19:43.750 higher education. Because almost every higher 300 00:19:43.750 --> 00:19:47.550 education institution is nothing more than a reflection of the community that it 301 00:19:47.550 --> 00:19:50.950 resides within. That is all that it is. 302 00:19:51.350 --> 00:19:55.200 It is simply a smaller, miniature version of, of what is 303 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:58.920 happening with the factors and the influences that are 304 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:02.640 affecting it. And so we, you know, 305 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:06.440 discuss things in the same way. The difference is that we 306 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:10.360 create an environment that says it is okay to have debate, it 307 00:20:10.360 --> 00:20:14.320 is okay to be frustrated, it is okay to, to engage 308 00:20:14.320 --> 00:20:18.240 in conversation, but you must do so up 309 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:22.180 under the umbrella or the premise of that you respect 310 00:20:22.260 --> 00:20:26.140 the person that you're engaging in debate with. That 311 00:20:26.140 --> 00:20:29.860 is something that I think we can. Can mirror in society. And I think that's 312 00:20:29.860 --> 00:20:33.460 what has come for me. And that's why that being a person from a 313 00:20:33.460 --> 00:20:37.460 disadvantaged background, I had all the things that was against me. You Know, 314 00:20:37.620 --> 00:20:41.540 I was the first in my family to go to college. Well, statistics 315 00:20:41.540 --> 00:20:44.340 say I shouldn't make it. Definitely 316 00:20:45.540 --> 00:20:49.540 was not. Only 4% of African Americans in 317 00:20:49.540 --> 00:20:53.040 the United States and only 2% of African Americans 318 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:57.200 across the world have terminal degrees, you know, 319 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:01.200 for a doctorate, you know. And so for me, it was creating an 320 00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:05.120 environment to say, because I've come from those places, why should 321 00:21:05.120 --> 00:21:08.560 I fear, you know, the situations I'm dealing with? Because 322 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:12.800 we should create an environment where people feel valued, seen, and most 323 00:21:12.800 --> 00:21:16.280 importantly, validated. That's how we should lead as 324 00:21:16.280 --> 00:21:20.210 individuals and citizens. I completely agree with you. I think I would also describe 325 00:21:20.210 --> 00:21:24.170 myself as an educator rather than an activist. And 326 00:21:24.410 --> 00:21:28.170 as you're talking now, I'm thinking, I've almost in my own mind thinking. 327 00:21:28.250 --> 00:21:32.050 When activist talks without listening, an educator's first, first 328 00:21:32.050 --> 00:21:35.970 tool is listening before talking. And it's trying to understand where 329 00:21:35.970 --> 00:21:39.890 people are and meet them where they are first, rather than telling everybody 330 00:21:39.890 --> 00:21:43.770 where you are. It's a slightly different approach. And 331 00:21:43.850 --> 00:21:47.260 I think I use the word thought leader in your 332 00:21:47.260 --> 00:21:50.980 introduction. And that's part of that. It's leading thought, isn't it? It's 333 00:21:50.980 --> 00:21:54.380 bringing people around the table to have these conversations and 334 00:21:54.860 --> 00:21:57.940 disarming people and saying, hang on a minute, we're not going to solve anything by 335 00:21:57.940 --> 00:22:01.940 being at polar opposites here. Yeah. And I think an important part 336 00:22:01.940 --> 00:22:05.340 of being. What I have learned about the convenience of leaders 337 00:22:06.380 --> 00:22:10.180 is that you may have content, but it's 338 00:22:10.180 --> 00:22:13.960 also important to have context. Because when you have 339 00:22:14.040 --> 00:22:17.560 content with context, you have clarity. 340 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:22.360 And what I have decided to do, especially in my 341 00:22:22.360 --> 00:22:26.200 sphere of influence working with higher education deans, vice 342 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.000 presidents and presidents, is say, have we thought about the context 343 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.800 by which we're going to present this content? And that's 344 00:22:33.800 --> 00:22:37.800 where we've been able to leverage games and really 345 00:22:37.800 --> 00:22:41.400 come off from the perspective of everything that we feel 346 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:45.680 may not be felt or seen by those that are 347 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.680 making decisions. Almost every incident, 348 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:52.960 every public institution in the United States reports up, 349 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:56.280 ultimately, through a community or state board, a 350 00:22:56.280 --> 00:22:59.800 politician. And so not to acknowledge that 351 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:03.920 public's desire has some influence on that 352 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:07.480 politician, which has influence on your funding, is a fallacy. 353 00:23:07.900 --> 00:23:11.900 It's a flawed thought. And so we got to begin with that first. And 354 00:23:11.900 --> 00:23:15.660 so leveraging the thoughts is saying, timeout. What is important 355 00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:19.340 to you as a politician? What is important to you as a power broker? What 356 00:23:19.340 --> 00:23:23.020 is important to you as a part of the citizens and the community 357 00:23:23.100 --> 00:23:26.980 that you serve? That's where we should begin, because we should be 358 00:23:26.980 --> 00:23:30.980 the community's college or the Community's university and not 359 00:23:30.980 --> 00:23:34.810 a, and not an ecosystem or 360 00:23:34.810 --> 00:23:38.530 organisation or a structure onto ourselves. And 361 00:23:38.530 --> 00:23:42.410 that's where I have learned being, you know, considered a thought leader is 362 00:23:42.490 --> 00:23:46.490 because I have said my primary customer in higher 363 00:23:46.490 --> 00:23:50.210 education are students. And what I do is create an 364 00:23:50.210 --> 00:23:54.170 environment where access and success becomes the 365 00:23:54.170 --> 00:23:57.610 guiding principles for leading decisions 366 00:23:57.930 --> 00:24:01.760 that ultimately serve our primary customer, which are students. And when 367 00:24:01.760 --> 00:24:05.600 we get that as the focal point, then we can 368 00:24:05.600 --> 00:24:09.320 make more, we can make much more meaningful, 369 00:24:09.800 --> 00:24:13.680 direct and intentional decisions that support the students that we 370 00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:17.600 ultimately serve. How do you make sure that you're humanising the 371 00:24:17.600 --> 00:24:21.160 individual? Because sometimes when you're making decisions at a 372 00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:25.040 politician level, at a campus level, whatever it may be, it's too easy to 373 00:24:25.040 --> 00:24:28.520 see a student as an entity rather than 374 00:24:29.150 --> 00:24:32.870 the breadth and depth, the intersectionality, the individual within that. 375 00:24:32.870 --> 00:24:36.030 And how do you bring out the human into your model? 376 00:24:36.990 --> 00:24:40.870 Well, I think the most important thing is to make sure that at every 377 00:24:40.870 --> 00:24:44.270 stage of the decision making process you're involving students 378 00:24:44.590 --> 00:24:48.030 to bring that voice. Because as a senior level 379 00:24:48.030 --> 00:24:51.990 administrator or as you know, when I'm being interviewed, I'm thinking 380 00:24:51.990 --> 00:24:55.660 in the macro because I'm trying to get a point across to the, to the 381 00:24:55.660 --> 00:24:59.380 masses. But storytelling is extremely important. That's why, 382 00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:03.380 you know, from every phase of development and every 383 00:25:03.700 --> 00:25:07.580 point of discussion actually have a student that is part of that process. Oftentimes 384 00:25:07.580 --> 00:25:11.499 I have a couple students because they have different storeys to tell and 385 00:25:11.499 --> 00:25:15.420 they have different experiences. So making sure that we involve 386 00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:19.300 students, one of the things that I have learned, and this 387 00:25:19.300 --> 00:25:23.170 is important lesson I think is critical for the, for, for your 388 00:25:23.170 --> 00:25:26.930 listeners and a part of our conversation. Too often 389 00:25:27.810 --> 00:25:31.490 those that are in power are making decisions based upon 390 00:25:31.730 --> 00:25:35.650 who is funding or who is giving input into 391 00:25:36.050 --> 00:25:39.810 their decision making process and they're not involved in the people that are being 392 00:25:39.810 --> 00:25:43.610 affected. And so for me, I began 393 00:25:43.610 --> 00:25:47.330 just the opposite to say, okay, let me truly understand what is the problem. 394 00:25:47.650 --> 00:25:51.510 So I go to the people that are affected first, understand the problem 395 00:25:51.910 --> 00:25:55.670 and then I develop a solution based upon the programme, 396 00:25:55.830 --> 00:25:59.590 the policy and or procedure that actually 397 00:25:59.590 --> 00:26:03.270 addresses the problem. And I think that's how you 398 00:26:03.510 --> 00:26:06.550 resolve the issue of the 399 00:26:07.270 --> 00:26:11.150 voices of the individuals that are being affected. Start with them 400 00:26:11.150 --> 00:26:14.750 first. Don't create an issue or problem based upon the funding 401 00:26:14.750 --> 00:26:18.270