WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:00.560 Foreign. 2 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.320 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.200 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 4 00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:18.720 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 5 00:00:18.720 --> 00:00:22.640 inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. 6 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:27.040 Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone 7 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:30.760 not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. 8 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:35.200 Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge 9 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.760 the status quo and share storeys that resonate 10 00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:42.480 deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're 11 00:00:42.480 --> 00:00:46.400 sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's 12 00:00:46.400 --> 00:00:50.360 connect, reflect and inspire action together. 13 00:00:51.080 --> 00:00:54.870 Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out 14 00:00:54.870 --> 00:00:58.670 to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 15 00:00:59.070 --> 00:01:02.590 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 16 00:01:03.470 --> 00:01:07.230 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 17 00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:10.830 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 18 00:01:14.590 --> 00:01:18.240 And today is episode 191 with the 19 00:01:18.240 --> 00:01:21.800 title Joyful Energy, Breakable 20 00:01:21.800 --> 00:01:25.560 Spirit. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Naseem 21 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:29.560 Rochette. Naseem is an award winning author, a keynote 22 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:33.160 speaker and joy seeker who seeks to help people 23 00:01:33.160 --> 00:01:36.760 reframe their storeys and help discover growth 24 00:01:37.080 --> 00:01:40.760 in life's toughest moments. When I asked Naseem to describe her 25 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:44.720 superpower, she said that it is radiating joyful energy that 26 00:01:44.720 --> 00:01:47.960 inspires optimism in the face of adversity. 27 00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:52.360 Wow. Hello, Naseem, welcome to the show. Hi, Jo. 28 00:01:52.600 --> 00:01:56.600 Thank you for having me. And I hope that's my superpower. That's 29 00:01:56.600 --> 00:01:59.480 what I try. Sounds amazing. And 30 00:02:00.360 --> 00:02:04.200 wow. I'm judging by the accent, you're not 31 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:07.120 over here in the uk, where I'm based. Whereabouts in the world are you? I 32 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.880 wish that I were, but no, I am in New Jersey. Not that I don't 33 00:02:10.880 --> 00:02:14.120 love, you know, my life here in New Jersey, but I do love the uk. 34 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:18.120 Yeah, it's a hot, sunny May Day. No, June day 35 00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:21.760 here in New Jersey. Wow. Is it 36 00:02:21.760 --> 00:02:25.560 disproportionately warm? You know, it's like talking about the weather. Is it? Is it, you 37 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:29.400 know, like, it's a perfect day, but my office 38 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:33.200 is my third floor attic, so it's a little bit hot up here. But, you 39 00:02:33.200 --> 00:02:37.040 know, I shouldn't complain about the sun. No, no, there's plenty 40 00:02:37.040 --> 00:02:39.640 of going on in the world right now that we can complain about. The sun. 41 00:02:39.640 --> 00:02:43.550 The sun, yes. There's plenty of craziness in 42 00:02:43.550 --> 00:02:47.310 the world right now. I need to appreciate. We always, although we always need to 43 00:02:47.310 --> 00:02:51.310 appreciate the little things especially, yeah, we're. 44 00:02:51.310 --> 00:02:54.310 Less than a week on from the audacious 45 00:02:55.270 --> 00:02:59.150 Ukrainian drone strike, aren't we where it, that's just to put 46 00:02:59.150 --> 00:03:02.470 a date and time on this, you know, that was a bit audacious. Zelensky 47 00:03:03.350 --> 00:03:07.030 Web. Yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of 48 00:03:07.350 --> 00:03:11.110 very concerning stuff going on in the world here in the U.S. 49 00:03:11.590 --> 00:03:15.550 you know, in the Mideast, in Europe. It's really hard to believe, which 50 00:03:15.550 --> 00:03:18.430 is why I think it's even more important. I love the work that you do, 51 00:03:18.430 --> 00:03:22.190 Jo, in making people feel included, because there is so 52 00:03:22.190 --> 00:03:25.910 much in the world that's happening that is, could, 53 00:03:26.150 --> 00:03:29.830 could divide us further. Yeah, no, I agree. And 54 00:03:29.830 --> 00:03:32.870 it's, we get around the table and start having conversations 55 00:03:33.790 --> 00:03:37.630 around a table rather than throwing rocks at each other across the, across 56 00:03:37.630 --> 00:03:41.590 the garden wall, if you like. We're doing often. Yeah. So your, your 57 00:03:41.590 --> 00:03:45.510 superpower is about radiating joyful energy. As I said just now. 58 00:03:45.510 --> 00:03:48.990 Where did that come from? What got you into doing what you do? You know, 59 00:03:48.990 --> 00:03:52.950 so it's, it's interesting. So I've always, on some level, been 60 00:03:52.950 --> 00:03:56.910 a joy seeker. You know, I was, I was, When I 61 00:03:56.910 --> 00:04:00.800 was a kid, I was, I was kind of a happy kid, but I was 62 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:04.440 also a really, really insecure kid, you know, just 63 00:04:05.320 --> 00:04:09.280 paralysed with fear, shy. I grew up in New Jersey. You know, when I grew 64 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:13.280 up, I'm 54 now, there were really no Indians in 65 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:16.960 my town. I'm, you know, I'm of Indian origin. And I always 66 00:04:16.960 --> 00:04:20.760 felt different and like I didn't belong. But I also, 67 00:04:20.760 --> 00:04:24.720 also had this happy, you know, this natural inclination to 68 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:28.450 be happy. I had, you know, know, happy parents, you know, festive. Actually, my 69 00:04:28.450 --> 00:04:32.410 parents were crazy party animals. So, you know, I grew up 70 00:04:32.490 --> 00:04:36.370 in a very social environment. And so when I was, you know, 71 00:04:36.370 --> 00:04:40.330 the weekends with my family, I was, you know, very social and happy. 72 00:04:40.490 --> 00:04:43.610 But, you know, on the weekdays, I was just so 73 00:04:43.610 --> 00:04:47.130 uncomfortable and shy and insecure. 74 00:04:48.010 --> 00:04:51.130 And, you know, I took that insecurity with me actually for, 75 00:04:52.030 --> 00:04:55.630 or I lived in that insecurity for a long, long time. 76 00:04:55.790 --> 00:04:59.390 You know, I, I, I often say that it was, wasn't until my twenties 77 00:05:00.110 --> 00:05:03.990 that I really accepted who I was, that I 78 00:05:03.990 --> 00:05:07.470 was, that I was different and, or I thought differently. And that was all okay. 79 00:05:08.190 --> 00:05:11.990 And then it probably took me another 10 or 15 years to become somebody 80 00:05:11.990 --> 00:05:15.830 that I liked. And all through that, you know, I, I tried 81 00:05:15.830 --> 00:05:19.470 to, you know, I, I had this natural inclination to joy 82 00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:23.270 and, and how do I find happiness? How do I 83 00:05:23.350 --> 00:05:27.110 spread happiness? How do I make people feel good and, 84 00:05:27.110 --> 00:05:30.710 and make them feel different than I felt, which was 85 00:05:30.870 --> 00:05:34.750 uncomfortable and alone and insecure. And I 86 00:05:34.750 --> 00:05:38.750 think that that has just, it's just served like the joy 87 00:05:38.750 --> 00:05:42.630 feeds joy. Oh, I think the joy keeps me energetic and young 88 00:05:42.710 --> 00:05:46.550 and you know, I know we'll talk about. I had a very traumatic accident seven 89 00:05:46.550 --> 00:05:50.450 years ago and I think it's that desire to get back 90 00:05:50.450 --> 00:05:54.330 to joy and the, you know, when I was. Thought I 91 00:05:54.330 --> 00:05:58.210 was dying, you know, like thinking about the joy 92 00:05:58.210 --> 00:06:02.130 of my life, I think those things kept me going, you know, and so 93 00:06:02.130 --> 00:06:05.930 I try to keep that front and centre. I mean, you know, we all 94 00:06:05.930 --> 00:06:09.690 say we only live once. Actually I saw, actually I saw a great little 95 00:06:09.690 --> 00:06:13.450 cartoon on my Instagram recently that said it was like a Snoopy and Charlie Brown. 96 00:06:13.450 --> 00:06:17.250 And I think Charlie Brown said, you know, we only live once. And 97 00:06:17.250 --> 00:06:20.570 Snoopy said, no, we only die once. We live every day. 98 00:06:21.530 --> 00:06:25.330 And I want to live every day with that joy. That's beautiful. That's a really 99 00:06:25.330 --> 00:06:29.130 beautiful. Yeah, I love that. I think I remember saying that 100 00:06:29.130 --> 00:06:32.450 and at the time I remember almost like a little tear came in my eye. 101 00:06:32.450 --> 00:06:36.330 You could feel that inside, can't you? I really, I do. I think 102 00:06:36.330 --> 00:06:40.020 about it all the time. We live every day. I 103 00:06:40.020 --> 00:06:43.220 didn't, I didn't realise myself that joy was a thing 104 00:06:44.260 --> 00:06:47.860 until, until that Disney Pixar 105 00:06:48.020 --> 00:06:51.380 movie Inside Out. And one of the characters, 106 00:06:51.940 --> 00:06:55.620 haven't you. Oh, you've got to see it. It's one and two. There's two now, 107 00:06:56.020 --> 00:06:59.620 but one of the characters, basically little characters in the little girl's head. 108 00:07:00.420 --> 00:07:04.140 And one of the characters is Anger. That little red man 109 00:07:04.140 --> 00:07:08.030 type characters, always, always angry about something, like a little, like a 110 00:07:08.030 --> 00:07:11.870 two year old always angry about something. And then what happens is 111 00:07:12.270 --> 00:07:15.630 Joy, who's the female character, effectively 112 00:07:16.590 --> 00:07:20.550 sellotapes anger to a chair and says, right, you're 113 00:07:20.550 --> 00:07:24.510 over there, I'm now running this body. I love that. I went 114 00:07:24.510 --> 00:07:28.270 through a similar epiphany where I realised that Joy suddenly took over my life 115 00:07:29.150 --> 00:07:32.070 and that I'd spent a lot of time with anxiety. I spent a lot of 116 00:07:32.070 --> 00:07:34.670 time with anger and a lot of time all these other emotions in your head. 117 00:07:35.760 --> 00:07:39.680 And by centering Joy, that allowed me to see 118 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:43.440 the world and my life more clearly. So I'm with you here about discovering 119 00:07:43.440 --> 00:07:47.240 joy. It's amazing. You know, it's interesting you say that about discovering Joy 120 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:50.800 because I don't know that I used the word joy up until 121 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:54.600 recently. I don't think I knew it was a thing. As I reflect 122 00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:58.600 back, I know I felt it, but I actually think, you know, some of the 123 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:02.480 ways that I solidified it solidified maybe that word or that idea 124 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:07.320 was. Again, during my accident and journey, I 125 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:11.400 realised that energy feeds energy. You know, we. And I 126 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:15.440 really believed and learned the effect of having a 127 00:08:15.440 --> 00:08:19.320 positive energy and how that drives momentum. And 128 00:08:19.320 --> 00:08:23.280 I realised that just by the words that I choose and the 129 00:08:23.280 --> 00:08:26.840 energy that I put forth. I drive different 130 00:08:26.840 --> 00:08:30.600 reactions in the people around me. And it doesn't mean life is always easy. 131 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:34.480 And all our conversations are like, you know, flowers and rainbows and stuff like 132 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:38.019 that, but the words we choose, the way we say it, 133 00:08:38.259 --> 00:08:41.939 you know, the, the tone of our voice, all of that, you know, 134 00:08:41.939 --> 00:08:45.459 tells a different storey. And if we focus on a storey 135 00:08:45.779 --> 00:08:49.539 with a positive outcome, with, you know, a belief in 136 00:08:49.539 --> 00:08:53.219 joy or an underlying, you know, respect 137 00:08:53.299 --> 00:08:56.579 and desire for joy, I think we drive a much 138 00:08:57.139 --> 00:09:01.099 more positive energy. So you had a pretty significant. Should 139 00:09:01.099 --> 00:09:04.920 we call it an event? Yeah, understated event, which you can. Obviously you're 140 00:09:04.920 --> 00:09:08.800 gonna. You're gonna talk a bit about some seven or eight years ago as you, 141 00:09:08.800 --> 00:09:12.640 as you, as you've mentioned here already, you've hinted at this and this 142 00:09:12.640 --> 00:09:16.280 is. You call it your unbreakable day 143 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:20.120 and tell me what was leading up rather, rather than the day itself. 144 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:24.080 What's going on in your life the week before. Yeah, I guess, 145 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:26.920 you know, we. We really can't have a conversation. I should, should let. Let all 146 00:09:26.920 --> 00:09:30.820 your listeners know what happened because it is so central to so 147 00:09:30.820 --> 00:09:33.020 much of how I think and talk about. 148 00:09:34.460 --> 00:09:38.220 So, you know, I mentioned that I was very insecure. I worked really 149 00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:41.380 hard to like who I was. Well, on May 150 00:09:41.380 --> 00:09:45.300 21, 2018, so seven years ago, you know, I 151 00:09:45.300 --> 00:09:49.260 woke up on another beautiful sunny day. I'm feeling 152 00:09:49.260 --> 00:09:53.260 really good about myself, really happy in command. You 153 00:09:53.260 --> 00:09:56.990 know, I have three kids, one working full time. I worked at Microsoft back 154 00:09:56.990 --> 00:10:00.910 then. A really robust life that I worked so hard to 155 00:10:00.910 --> 00:10:04.910 build and so hard to appreciate. And, you know, I juggled it all. And 156 00:10:04.910 --> 00:10:07.590 Jo, I like to say, you know, I juggled it all and I made it 157 00:10:07.590 --> 00:10:11.390 look easy. It wasn't easy, but I took pride in the fact that I 158 00:10:11.390 --> 00:10:15.150 could manage all of this. And, you know, I grew up in a household where 159 00:10:15.790 --> 00:10:19.350 women were strong and we didn't ask for help. You know, not asking for help 160 00:10:19.350 --> 00:10:23.260 was a source of pride. So, you know, I started out my 161 00:10:23.260 --> 00:10:27.140 day like that. And by that afternoon, I was in a hospital. 162 00:10:27.540 --> 00:10:31.420 I had been hit by a car and run over 163 00:10:31.420 --> 00:10:35.380 three times. The car hit me and then stopped 164 00:10:35.700 --> 00:10:39.540 and then drove over me and then reversed over me 165 00:10:40.020 --> 00:10:43.740 and then drove over me a third time. And I was pinned underneath the car. 166 00:10:43.740 --> 00:10:46.340 And I'll just let that sit for a minute because I know it's a lot. 167 00:10:46.500 --> 00:10:50.340 I know there's, there's. That's not 168 00:10:50.340 --> 00:10:54.180 accidental, is it? You know, it seems like it wouldn't be, 169 00:10:54.180 --> 00:10:58.100 but it was, you know, and my husband was actually watching the whole thing. 170 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:01.940 I was in a pedestrian crosswalk just a couple miles from my house in New 171 00:11:01.940 --> 00:11:05.740 Jersey when a car, you 172 00:11:05.740 --> 00:11:09.580 know, a car turned and hit me in the crosswalk. And the car 173 00:11:09.580 --> 00:11:13.460 actually stopped at first. And then, you know, we don't know 174 00:11:13.460 --> 00:11:17.420 why the driver did all the things. You know, I actually, I wrote a 175 00:11:17.420 --> 00:11:21.020 book about the storey, the unexpected benefits of being run over. Because 176 00:11:21.260 --> 00:11:25.260 there's so much to talk about just in that event, you know, and I 177 00:11:25.260 --> 00:11:29.140 don't know what the driver was thinking, but it wasn't a hit. You know, my 178 00:11:29.140 --> 00:11:32.980 husband didn't hire anyone to kill me, luckily. And we think we, you know, we 179 00:11:32.980 --> 00:11:35.820 believe the driver just had a lot of really bad judgement, you know. 180 00:11:38.060 --> 00:11:41.820 Compounded that by reverse, you know, lost spatial awareness. 181 00:11:42.660 --> 00:11:46.380 Didn't know what was going on, didn't know where you were. Yeah, I mean, I 182 00:11:46.380 --> 00:11:49.940 have some theories. I think maybe she was trying to flee the scene, maybe she 183 00:11:49.940 --> 00:11:53.740 was trying to then get back to where she hit me in the crosswalk. You 184 00:11:53.740 --> 00:11:57.060 know, maybe eventually she was just trying to get off me. But, you know, everybody 185 00:11:57.060 --> 00:12:00.740 was screaming, you know, just stop. And I, you know, I was 186 00:12:01.460 --> 00:12:03.780 conscious through the whole event. 187 00:12:05.460 --> 00:12:09.180 God, I always get a little even, you know, seven years later 188 00:12:09.180 --> 00:12:12.990 talking about it. I was, you know, I went 189 00:12:12.990 --> 00:12:16.830 from everything to, you know, initially having that, oh my 190 00:12:16.830 --> 00:12:20.550 gosh, she's hitting me on this great day, you know, I'm feeling so good. I've 191 00:12:20.550 --> 00:12:24.070 had such a wonderful day and not worried, you know, thinking I might be a 192 00:12:24.070 --> 00:12:27.790 little black and blue, but no biggie, you know, cocktail party, 193 00:12:27.790 --> 00:12:31.790 storey, whatever. I got hit by a car today, haha. To, you 194 00:12:31.790 --> 00:12:35.550 know, then when she ran over me, you know, I was, I was 195 00:12:35.550 --> 00:12:38.550 wriggling, I was trying to get out from underneath it, you know, I didn't, I 196 00:12:38.550 --> 00:12:42.170 didn't want to die. And then when she reversed over me, 197 00:12:42.410 --> 00:12:46.370 I remember thinking there's something wrong. Like I could hear in 198 00:12:46.370 --> 00:12:49.930 my husband's voice that he was watching me die. I could hear it in the 199 00:12:49.930 --> 00:12:53.810 screams of all the people watching it, that they were watching 200 00:12:53.810 --> 00:12:57.810 someone die. And I had, in those moments, which I'm, you 201 00:12:57.810 --> 00:13:01.450 know, actually feel, I call it a magical accident because 202 00:13:01.450 --> 00:13:05.290 there's so much that I feel lucky for 203 00:13:05.700 --> 00:13:08.660 and that I think I have learned. And one of those things was when I 204 00:13:08.660 --> 00:13:12.500 was underneath the car thinking, you know, I don't even say 99, I 205 00:13:12.500 --> 00:13:16.300 was a hundred percent sure I was going to die. I started reflecting back on 206 00:13:16.300 --> 00:13:19.700 my life and you know, having those end of life thoughts. 207 00:13:20.180 --> 00:13:24.140 And I remember thinking, you know, why didn't I write my 208 00:13:24.140 --> 00:13:27.540 kids letters? I travelled. Every time I get on a plane I'd think, oh, I 209 00:13:27.540 --> 00:13:30.900 should write them letters just in case, you know, I never did it. And then, 210 00:13:30.900 --> 00:13:34.610 you know, my thoughts and it was like 20 minutes of conversation even, you know, 211 00:13:34.610 --> 00:13:38.450 in these matter of seconds, you know, cause everything was in slow motion for 212 00:13:38.450 --> 00:13:42.410 me. And then I came to the conclusion that although I didn't write 213 00:13:42.410 --> 00:13:46.250 my kids any letters, you know, we've had so much 214 00:13:46.250 --> 00:13:50.010 joy, you know, we've had great vacations, we would dance 215 00:13:50.010 --> 00:13:53.890 around the kitchen. We were like, we're a happy gang. And 216 00:13:53.890 --> 00:13:57.810 I thought, you know, even though I'm. They're going to lose their 217 00:13:57.810 --> 00:14:01.480 mom, they know who I am because we've had that joy. I've been 218 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:05.480 present, I've, I've filled, you know, their life 219 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:09.400 with love and I felt so good about that. But you know what Jo? I 220 00:14:09.400 --> 00:14:13.400 also realised that I did that for my kids, but I didn't do that 221 00:14:13.400 --> 00:14:16.720 for the other people in my life. No one else really knew how important they 222 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:20.600 were. I wasn't super effusive and appreciative, you know, I was 223 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:24.400 always like nice and caring. But I don't think most 224 00:14:24.400 --> 00:14:27.520 people in my life that had an impact, whether big or small, 225 00:14:28.630 --> 00:14:31.910 knew the positive effects or that I appreciated, 226 00:14:32.950 --> 00:14:36.790 you know, what they did. And I felt like there was a lot left unsaid 227 00:14:36.950 --> 00:14:40.470 in the, you know, in the community and in my friend circle 228 00:14:40.950 --> 00:14:44.790 and that I felt, felt some regret. But both of those things really 229 00:14:44.790 --> 00:14:48.670 helped me afterwards in how I wanted to live. There were, there were no 230 00:14:48.670 --> 00:14:52.270 thoughts about I should have saved more money, I wish I got more promotions. It 231 00:14:52.270 --> 00:14:56.260 was, it was all about people in the people I connected with. As 232 00:14:56.260 --> 00:14:59.660 you're talking, as you first started talking about that and 233 00:15:00.780 --> 00:15:03.980 I, I have a habit of not reading 234 00:15:04.540 --> 00:15:08.300 the briefing notes that you sent through. So I, I flicked through it and I 235 00:15:08.300 --> 00:15:12.260 saw something about being unbreakable, I saw something about being a life changing but 236 00:15:12.260 --> 00:15:15.740 I didn't really get into the weeds of that and 237 00:15:15.980 --> 00:15:19.820 I, I've, I've effectively discovered everything you just said at the same time. 238 00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:23.000 If you're listening to this, I heard that for the same time 239 00:15:23.800 --> 00:15:27.640 and as you were describing it, the visual Image I had in my head 240 00:15:27.640 --> 00:15:31.320 was the end of the previous series of Handmaid's Tale. 241 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:35.400 And if you've seen this, but the lead character, June, she gets run over 242 00:15:35.400 --> 00:15:38.920 by a pickup and that person is trying to hurt them 243 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:43.080 and they're reversing back. So you're. You're describing it. I didn't hear that. For me. 244 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.800 Cause, no, I didn't see it yet. But. Sorry, spoiler 245 00:15:46.800 --> 00:15:50.690 alert. Spoiler alert. But the good news is she survives 246 00:15:50.690 --> 00:15:54.530 and she's a fighter like you. But. So I've got 247 00:15:54.530 --> 00:15:58.450 this real image in my head of. As 248 00:15:58.450 --> 00:16:02.450 you were describing it, I had a vision. I wasn't trying to create a picture. 249 00:16:02.450 --> 00:16:06.250 I had one. And that's why it was impactful for me. And 250 00:16:07.850 --> 00:16:11.690 when you tell that storey to people, people go, 251 00:16:12.330 --> 00:16:16.220 obviously, they're shocked, they're stunned. Do they know what to say? Do they know 252 00:16:16.220 --> 00:16:19.220 what to ask? Cause I've got loads of questions in my head. I'm thinking, I'm 253 00:16:19.220 --> 00:16:21.900 going to ask these questions in a bit because that's one of the privileges I 254 00:16:21.900 --> 00:16:25.260 have of being the host on this show. But do people struggle to sort of. 255 00:16:25.260 --> 00:16:29.220 To say they do? I try to give people a minute to digest it, you 256 00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:33.180 know, when. When there's time, because I often forget quite how ridiculous 257 00:16:33.180 --> 00:16:37.180 it is. And I think people, people, their first reaction is, 258 00:16:37.180 --> 00:16:41.140 you know, I'm sorry. Like, that's so horrible. But what's interesting is, for me is 259 00:16:41.140 --> 00:16:44.660 it's. It's like I learned so much. There's so much joy that has come out 260 00:16:44.660 --> 00:16:48.560 of it that I don't look at it as. You know, actually 261 00:16:48.560 --> 00:16:52.280 recently I had to do this timeline of positive and negative things. 262 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:57.080 And the accident, oddly, was not a negative thing. You know, it was on the 263 00:16:57.160 --> 00:17:01.080 positive trajectory because of all I learned. But, you know, as 264 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:05.000 you said, people definitely don't know what to say when it happened. 265 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:09.640 In fact, you know, I don't know if these things are funny. They're funny to 266 00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:13.600 me. But when I did write the book, and the book came out and 267 00:17:13.600 --> 00:17:17.310 I explained quite the seriousness of the journey and all the things that I learned. 268 00:17:17.460 --> 00:17:21.380 Learned. So many people in the periphery of my life said, you know, when I 269 00:17:21.380 --> 00:17:25.300 heard the storey, I thought someone was kidding. I didn't actually 270 00:17:25.620 --> 00:17:29.300 believe that you were run over three times. Most people 271 00:17:29.300 --> 00:17:33.100 just. It's just so nonsensical that I would be run over three 272 00:17:33.100 --> 00:17:36.500 times, that a lot of people just didn't believe that it was true. My dad. 273 00:17:36.580 --> 00:17:38.700 I'm going to ask. I'm going to ask the question that's going through my head. 274 00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:41.340 And if you're listening to this, I'm trying to ask the question on your behalf 275 00:17:41.340 --> 00:17:45.200 as well. These are the questions that people say, oh, you should never ask 276 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:49.200 that. You should never. It obviously hurt. Which part of you was run 277 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:53.120 over or was it. Or was it all over? So I was. So when 278 00:17:53.120 --> 00:17:56.040 the car first hit, it was, you know, kind of chest level. It was a 279 00:17:56.040 --> 00:17:59.800 big suv, a big white SUV when it. And then, you know, the 280 00:17:59.800 --> 00:18:03.600 tyres went over me five times. So they went over my. My 281 00:18:03.600 --> 00:18:07.120 knees, they went over my chest. And this is the 282 00:18:07.120 --> 00:18:09.960 craziest. They went over my head and neck. 283 00:18:11.120 --> 00:18:14.960 So, you know, it. It went over my head and over my 284 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:18.880 neck. The cars went over my, My head. And I remember. And 285 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:22.760 Jo, the, the look you like. That was how I was thinking about it 286 00:18:22.760 --> 00:18:26.560 after, because I was conscious and I knew what happened. My husband saw what happened. 287 00:18:26.560 --> 00:18:29.880 Other people saw what happened. But I thought, how can a car run over my 288 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.560 head and neck and run over me and I'm still alive. And I 289 00:18:33.560 --> 00:18:37.460 remember after the accident, I kept wondering, like, it couldn't have really 290 00:18:37.460 --> 00:18:41.060 happened. Like, there's no way that really happened. And a week 291 00:18:41.140 --> 00:18:44.980 later, and I call this, you know, again, if anyone 292 00:18:46.260 --> 00:18:49.940 sees my website or book or anything, you might see this picture. There is 293 00:18:50.020 --> 00:18:53.380 a picture of my neck with tyre marks 294 00:18:53.860 --> 00:18:57.540 that showed up a few days later. And I call that my favourite accident picture 295 00:18:57.540 --> 00:19:01.380 because it was the proof that it really did happen. 296 00:19:01.540 --> 00:19:05.240 I mean, I had the pain, but I. I didn't really believe 297 00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:08.800 it. And here's another crazy thing. I didn't break any bones. 298 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:13.200 That was my next question. So you didn't break any bones? No, I mean, I. 299 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:16.640 I had a lot of very serious injuries. You know, I was 300 00:19:17.600 --> 00:19:21.200 crushed. So, you know, I had a lot of internal injuries. 301 00:19:21.840 --> 00:19:24.840 You know, I couldn't walk. I had to have surgery on my eye. You know, 302 00:19:24.840 --> 00:19:28.720 I had nerve damage. You know, I was pretty immobile for a while. 303 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.980 And I have a traumatic brain injury. I, I still, you 304 00:19:32.980 --> 00:19:36.780 know, I, I don't think how I used to think, but I didn't break any 305 00:19:36.780 --> 00:19:39.900 bones. So I was actually never admitted to the hospital. 306 00:19:40.860 --> 00:19:44.460 So 24 hours later, I was back at home trying to 307 00:19:45.100 --> 00:19:49.020 navigate what, being a mom. Yeah, yeah, that was probably one of the 308 00:19:49.020 --> 00:19:51.900 hardest. You know, there. There were many things that were hard that was very hard. 309 00:19:52.060 --> 00:19:55.910 The driver's lack of remorse was really hard. There were a 310 00:19:55.910 --> 00:19:59.350 couple things that probably didn't need to be as hard that were, you know, real 311 00:19:59.430 --> 00:20:03.310 lessons. So you said to the driver's lack of remorse. 312 00:20:03.310 --> 00:20:07.070 They understand the gravity of what happened. It was kind of like, were they trying 313 00:20:07.070 --> 00:20:10.710 to imprint it was your fault for getting in the way or something? Yeah, kind 314 00:20:10.710 --> 00:20:14.670 of. So at the. At the scene, the driver. So my 315 00:20:14.670 --> 00:20:17.670 husband was at the scene. So the driver got out of the car, and she 316 00:20:17.670 --> 00:20:21.430 was like a toddler throwing a tantrum. And my husband actually 317 00:20:21.430 --> 00:20:24.670 said, like, don't you even care what happened to her? Like, she didn't even. She 318 00:20:24.670 --> 00:20:28.650 just seemed to be worried about herself. And, you know, I remember the. The 319 00:20:28.650 --> 00:20:32.450 witnesses, you know, the other people there had to move her away because they couldn't 320 00:20:32.450 --> 00:20:36.010 even talk to me, to try to keep me conscious and alert because of all 321 00:20:36.010 --> 00:20:39.890 her screaming. And. But look, you know, that. That's 322 00:20:39.890 --> 00:20:43.330 shock. You know, I actually held. But, yeah, trauma. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. 323 00:20:43.890 --> 00:20:47.050 And. And I thought, you know, she didn't mean to run over me three times. 324 00:20:47.050 --> 00:20:50.850 Like, obviously, a lot of bad decisions, bad judgement, but I actually 325 00:20:50.850 --> 00:20:54.580 held no ill will to. And when I said, you know, we got 326 00:20:54.580 --> 00:20:57.580 a notice in the mail, like a victim's notice, that she was going to be 327 00:20:57.580 --> 00:21:01.540 in court, you know, four or five weeks later. So my husband and my daughter 328 00:21:01.540 --> 00:21:05.500 and I went to the courthouse, and she was just a few 329 00:21:05.500 --> 00:21:09.460 feet away from me. You know, I was bandaged, Cane, you 330 00:21:09.460 --> 00:21:13.340 know, scars on my face, you know, glasses, 331 00:21:13.340 --> 00:21:17.060 like, you know, I was. I was still in bad shape. And, you know, she 332 00:21:17.060 --> 00:21:20.770 had seen my husband, and she was a few feet away, didn't acknowledge 333 00:21:20.770 --> 00:21:24.530 us, you know, nothing. There was, like, 334 00:21:24.530 --> 00:21:28.370 no human kindness or interaction or, you know, I hope 335 00:21:28.370 --> 00:21:32.370 you're okay, or anything. And I remember it was like 336 00:21:32.370 --> 00:21:36.290 someone pushed me off a cliff at that moment. That's the moment that I 337 00:21:36.610 --> 00:21:40.530 fully lost control of, you know, my emotions. 338 00:21:40.610 --> 00:21:44.570 There was no joy because till that. Till that day, I felt no ill 339 00:21:44.570 --> 00:21:48.130 will. She didn't mean to do it. But when I saw no kindness, no 340 00:21:48.130 --> 00:21:51.930 connection, nothing from her, it just broke me. I'm just thinking, if 341 00:21:51.930 --> 00:21:55.850 she'd have come up to you in tears, full of remorse 342 00:21:55.850 --> 00:21:59.810 and devastated, and say, can we hug? 343 00:21:59.810 --> 00:22:03.370 You'd have gone, of course we could hug. Couldn't you? You could have done that. 344 00:22:04.730 --> 00:22:08.610 But as you say, because someone doesn't treat you in 345 00:22:08.610 --> 00:22:12.490 that way, that there's no acknowledgment of your pain, your trauma and your 346 00:22:12.490 --> 00:22:15.450 family and everyone who knows you, then 347 00:22:16.660 --> 00:22:20.180 I'm more upset around that reaction than I am around. 348 00:22:20.660 --> 00:22:24.500 Yeah. As you are. As you say, that's where you lost it. Yeah. 349 00:22:25.620 --> 00:22:29.540 Really. Really. You know, when I Say like pushed me off a cliff. I actually 350 00:22:29.540 --> 00:22:33.100 that day I went home and you know, when my kids think about this day, 351 00:22:33.100 --> 00:22:36.740 they still get teary eyed because the mom that was 352 00:22:37.140 --> 00:22:41.060 so joyful was, you know, the happy life we had 353 00:22:41.540 --> 00:22:44.940 on that day, it hit rock bottom, you know, I went home, I remember my 354 00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:48.090 youngest child said, asked if he could go to the pool. You know, it was 355 00:22:48.090 --> 00:22:51.730 a nice day. And I started screaming at him. I was screaming at our 356 00:22:51.730 --> 00:22:55.690 babysitter at all my kids. Like they, they didn't know who 357 00:22:55.690 --> 00:22:59.570 they were getting when they would ask me something because I just, I 358 00:22:59.570 --> 00:23:02.970 was so broken, you know, for a minute. And then that's actually the day that 359 00:23:02.970 --> 00:23:06.250 I started. I realised that I no longer could control 360 00:23:07.130 --> 00:23:10.650 my mental state without more help. And I started on 361 00:23:10.650 --> 00:23:14.530 antidepressants and anti anxiety that day. I love analogies and 362 00:23:14.530 --> 00:23:18.530 metaphors and similes and things like this. And what's jumping into my head 363 00:23:18.530 --> 00:23:22.290 here is Star Wars Jedis and Siths 364 00:23:22.850 --> 00:23:26.850 and the hard thing here is trying to stay in the Jedi 365 00:23:26.850 --> 00:23:30.450 camp and not get engrossed with anger and 366 00:23:30.450 --> 00:23:34.250 revenge and all that. That must have been really difficult because it 367 00:23:34.250 --> 00:23:38.130 sounds like you were leaning into the Sith there in the dark side, weren't you? 368 00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:42.700 Well, yeah, you know, I, it's, it's strange. I'm 369 00:23:42.700 --> 00:23:46.380 not sure that it was ever anger. I think it was anger for my husband 370 00:23:46.460 --> 00:23:49.980 and for my daughter and you know, all the people that loved me. But for 371 00:23:49.980 --> 00:23:53.140 me it was just such a sadness, such a 372 00:23:53.140 --> 00:23:57.060 disappointment, you know. And I don't know 373 00:23:57.060 --> 00:24:01.020 that I've ever really had anger for her, but I've just, 374 00:24:01.180 --> 00:24:05.180 you know, I just, I just felt sad. You know, I still feel sad, but 375 00:24:05.180 --> 00:24:09.130 I, you know, I focus on the life that I get to lead 376 00:24:09.290 --> 00:24:13.290 and the way that I treat people and the decisions I make. And 377 00:24:14.330 --> 00:24:17.730 you know, I've also, I've also come to reconcile it. You know, one of the 378 00:24:17.730 --> 00:24:21.530 other things that I learned during this journey is sometimes the people 379 00:24:21.530 --> 00:24:24.490 you think are going to show up for you in your times of need 380 00:24:25.210 --> 00:24:29.210 don't or don't show up the way you expect them to show up for you. 381 00:24:29.530 --> 00:24:33.210 What I have realised is that we have no 382 00:24:33.210 --> 00:24:36.880 idea the traumas and the triggers of the people around 383 00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:40.120 us. For instance, today nobody looks at me and says, wow, she was run over 384 00:24:40.120 --> 00:24:43.560 three times. Like I'm sure she can't cross the street. Like no one has any 385 00:24:43.560 --> 00:24:47.240 idea what goes on. And I think that, I think that people, you know, we 386 00:24:47.320 --> 00:24:51.320 don't necessarily know what those triggers are for the People around us. And 387 00:24:51.320 --> 00:24:55.320 I think that my accident, and seeing me broken and bruised 388 00:24:55.560 --> 00:24:59.240 and disfigured and just so weak after being 389 00:24:59.320 --> 00:25:03.050 so such a strong person, you know, it was. Was hard 390 00:25:03.050 --> 00:25:06.930 for people. And I think that. That 391 00:25:07.090 --> 00:25:11.010 sometimes they can't show up. It's. It's their defence mechanism, 392 00:25:11.170 --> 00:25:14.450 you know, it's their body protecting them, their mind protecting them. 393 00:25:15.090 --> 00:25:19.050 And so I now attribute that to the driver. Maybe the 394 00:25:19.050 --> 00:25:22.850 way that she deals with that accident is by 395 00:25:22.930 --> 00:25:26.370 pretending it didn't happen. And is that how I would deal with it? No. 396 00:25:27.060 --> 00:25:30.900 But maybe that's her way of protecting herself. I don't live 397 00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:32.420 that way. But you know what? I. 398 00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:38.460 Do a lot of training on challenging conversations and workplace 399 00:25:38.460 --> 00:25:41.740 conflicts, all this kind of thing. And one of the golden rules is you have 400 00:25:41.740 --> 00:25:45.460 to meet people where they're at, you have to understand where someone is, 401 00:25:46.020 --> 00:25:49.980