WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:00.560 Foreign. 2 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.320 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.200 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 4 00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:18.720 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 5 00:00:18.720 --> 00:00:22.640 inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. 6 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:27.040 Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world without? Remember, everyone 7 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:30.760 not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. 8 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:35.200 Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge 9 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.760 the status quo and share storeys that resonate 10 00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:42.480 deep within. Ready to dive in. Whether you're 11 00:00:42.480 --> 00:00:46.400 sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's 12 00:00:46.400 --> 00:00:50.360 connect, reflect and inspire action together. 13 00:00:51.080 --> 00:00:54.870 Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out 14 00:00:54.870 --> 00:00:58.670 to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 15 00:00:59.070 --> 00:01:02.590 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 16 00:01:03.470 --> 00:01:07.230 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 17 00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:10.830 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 18 00:01:14.670 --> 00:01:18.510 And today is episode 195 with the 19 00:01:18.510 --> 00:01:22.350 title Bridging Silent Worlds. And I have the 20 00:01:22.350 --> 00:01:26.230 absolute honour and privilege to welcome Maria Gallucci. 21 00:01:26.390 --> 00:01:29.270 Maria is a multi award winning Realtor, 22 00:01:29.910 --> 00:01:33.750 Altcoder stands for Child of Deaf Adults, 23 00:01:34.069 --> 00:01:37.590 and author of Raised in Silence. She also 24 00:01:37.910 --> 00:01:41.750 builds accessible home buying experiences and championing, 25 00:01:41.750 --> 00:01:45.520 I can never say championing, championing empathy between deaf 26 00:01:45.600 --> 00:01:49.320 and hearing communities. And when I asked Maria to describe 27 00:01:49.320 --> 00:01:53.280 herself, she said that it is radical empathy that 28 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:56.880 bridges deaf and hearing worlds. Hello, 29 00:01:56.880 --> 00:02:00.760 Maria, welcome to the show. Absolute pleasure. Absolute pleasure. And we were 30 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:04.600 chatting in the green room before we went live about your ancestry, 31 00:02:04.600 --> 00:02:08.160 where are you from and where do you descend from in the past? 32 00:02:09.200 --> 00:02:12.960 So I'm Italian and we live in Denver, Colorado now, 33 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:16.850 but we're second generation Italians in the United 34 00:02:16.930 --> 00:02:20.850 States. And I was born in New Hampshire but basically raised in Colorado 35 00:02:22.450 --> 00:02:26.050 because we. Were talking about how the pronunciation of your name 36 00:02:26.290 --> 00:02:30.170 is. People see the Cs and they pronounce it kind of an 37 00:02:30.170 --> 00:02:34.090 American way, but not in the Italian way. So Gallucci. So CH is 38 00:02:34.090 --> 00:02:37.490 the C. Yeah, exactly. And everyone always just did Galu sea, which it's actually. 39 00:02:37.490 --> 00:02:41.450 Gallucci. Yeah, that's really. Yeah. And I was, I was wondering 40 00:02:41.450 --> 00:02:45.180 the other day, you know, historical character Julius Caesar, should he be 41 00:02:45.180 --> 00:02:49.180 really Julius Cheeser? Yeah, that's true. 42 00:02:50.620 --> 00:02:54.500 I always wondered that. Rewrite history books the world over. 43 00:02:54.500 --> 00:02:58.419 Yeah. To redo all the class stuff that we learned. Yeah. Hail 44 00:02:58.419 --> 00:03:02.300 Cheeser and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, so it's. Yeah, I always wondered 45 00:03:02.300 --> 00:03:06.060 that. But. So Maria, you, as I said in the 46 00:03:06.060 --> 00:03:09.940 intro, you're the child of deaf adults and you grew up 47 00:03:09.940 --> 00:03:13.610 in a. In a world where silence was the norm for them. But 48 00:03:13.610 --> 00:03:17.130 obviously You're a hearing child. That must have been 49 00:03:17.930 --> 00:03:21.450 a challenge because you must have also had to be their 50 00:03:21.850 --> 00:03:25.850 sign interpreter or their interpreter from the hearing to the not 51 00:03:25.850 --> 00:03:29.690 hearing world. Yeah, we were always the gap 52 00:03:29.690 --> 00:03:33.650 between the hearing and the non hearing world and so we always had to interpret 53 00:03:33.650 --> 00:03:36.890 for their medical appointments or any financial things. 54 00:03:37.600 --> 00:03:40.920 And there's six of us kids and we're all hearing and both of our parents 55 00:03:40.920 --> 00:03:44.880 were deaf. So ASL was our first language. And then my mom always 56 00:03:44.880 --> 00:03:48.640 said we learned how to speak through the TV and obviously school 57 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:53.160 and things like that. So ASL is all we've known since we were 58 00:03:53.160 --> 00:03:56.960 kids. Asl, that's American Sign Language. 59 00:03:57.200 --> 00:04:01.080 Yes, American Sign Lang language. Every country has their own 60 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:05.010 signs. Like, because it's not a universal language, 61 00:04:05.010 --> 00:04:08.970 you don't translate, do you? It's a completely independent language. 62 00:04:09.610 --> 00:04:13.450 Yes, Yep. And we always say things, we reverse things like Spanish, 63 00:04:13.450 --> 00:04:17.170 how they do the reversal, that's how we sign as well. Where 64 00:04:17.170 --> 00:04:21.170 English is the different. So ASL and bsl different syntax 65 00:04:21.170 --> 00:04:25.130 and context. Is it? Yes. Yeah, it's all, it's. It's different. Like in, 66 00:04:25.210 --> 00:04:28.050 I think my mom always said in the Philippines, I think it was, they would 67 00:04:28.050 --> 00:04:31.910 actually like use their hands to do signs. Like their bodies to 68 00:04:31.910 --> 00:04:35.670 do. Do the signs. Where in AASL we do. We do it with our 69 00:04:35.670 --> 00:04:39.590 hands. Wow. So there's no universal 70 00:04:39.590 --> 00:04:43.430 sign language. No, no. But every, every has, everyone 71 00:04:43.430 --> 00:04:47.310 has their own. It's like having accents too. Yeah. Wow. 72 00:04:47.310 --> 00:04:51.070 So different parts of the country have different signs for different 73 00:04:51.070 --> 00:04:54.830 words, do they? Yes. Yep. Yep, they do. It's completely different. 74 00:04:54.990 --> 00:04:58.740 That must be tricky to learn, I 75 00:04:58.740 --> 00:05:02.140 guess as a non native or a non 76 00:05:04.380 --> 00:05:07.860 child growing up with signings. So you have to learn it, but if you're travelling 77 00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:11.700 around the country you have to learn that there's different dialects as well. Were your 78 00:05:11.700 --> 00:05:15.620 parents ever hearing or were they born without hearing? So 79 00:05:15.620 --> 00:05:19.420 my dad was born deaf and then my mom became deaf at nine 80 00:05:19.420 --> 00:05:23.380 months because she had, I think it was the measles and the mumps at the 81 00:05:23.380 --> 00:05:27.340 same time when she was nine months. So she was raised deaf, but 82 00:05:27.340 --> 00:05:31.180 she, she was actually not born deaf. And all, all of us six, six 83 00:05:31.180 --> 00:05:34.780 kids are hearing, so none of us were deaf. Okay. 84 00:05:35.100 --> 00:05:39.020 So I've got a friend who has cochlear implants and she, she lost 85 00:05:39.020 --> 00:05:42.900 her hearing probably in the childhood, I think five or 86 00:05:42.900 --> 00:05:46.740 six years old. So she had a few years off hearing, which makes the cochlear 87 00:05:46.740 --> 00:05:50.690 implants easier to process because she knows what hearing is. But it 88 00:05:50.690 --> 00:05:54.330 must be extremely Difficult for maybe both your parents 89 00:05:54.410 --> 00:05:58.410 because they've never heard. It's such an 90 00:05:58.410 --> 00:06:02.210 integral part of my experience that how can I 91 00:06:02.210 --> 00:06:06.170 describe something without ever having heard something? Yes, 92 00:06:06.170 --> 00:06:09.770 I agree. I agree with that because. Well, back then, they had. 93 00:06:10.010 --> 00:06:13.970 It wasn't the implants, but it was something else that they had that they put 94 00:06:13.970 --> 00:06:17.930 on their ear. Like, they've come advanced on that stuff. And my mom, 95 00:06:18.570 --> 00:06:22.350 they never wore hearing aids. It gave her migraines, so she always, like, took 96 00:06:22.350 --> 00:06:25.830 off the hearing aids. So I think that when you're born deaf, it is 97 00:06:26.310 --> 00:06:30.190 different because you've never heard. And so a lot of people struggle with, like, 98 00:06:30.190 --> 00:06:34.030 headaches and things like that when they put the implants in or 99 00:06:34.030 --> 00:06:37.950 even use the hearing aids. Is your. Are your parents proud of their deafness? 100 00:06:37.950 --> 00:06:41.030 It's part of their identity. It's not just a. They don't see it as a 101 00:06:41.110 --> 00:06:44.310 disability. It's more that they're proud to be deaf. 102 00:06:44.710 --> 00:06:48.590 Yes, exactly. And I'm proud to be a coda. It gives you a 103 00:06:48.590 --> 00:06:52.480 different perspective on people and being inclusive and 104 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:56.280 things like that. Yeah, I've heard that before. But it's like other 105 00:06:57.400 --> 00:07:01.000 disabilities or conditions where people don't feel they need to be fixed. 106 00:07:01.320 --> 00:07:05.240 They're perfectly okay as they are, and they're not broken. They don't need 107 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:09.160 someone to come fix them. They just are. Yeah. They're 108 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:12.800 being their authentic self. They don't feel like they're. 109 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:16.680 They're anything different than who they are. So what challenges did you face 110 00:07:17.660 --> 00:07:21.260 as a child growing up in this world? 111 00:07:21.500 --> 00:07:25.380 Were you the oldest of your siblings or in the middle of their siblings? I'm 112 00:07:25.380 --> 00:07:28.980 in the middle. Yeah. So I'm the third to the oldest. Yeah. And so I 113 00:07:28.980 --> 00:07:32.980 think it was just having people making them feel different than they 114 00:07:32.980 --> 00:07:36.700 are, not accepted, and seeing my parents be 115 00:07:36.700 --> 00:07:40.660 like. Or we all of us being made fun of because we signed 116 00:07:40.660 --> 00:07:44.660 or because our parents didn't, you know, talk. So I think 117 00:07:44.660 --> 00:07:48.300 that it gave us more empathy towards people 118 00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:52.020 and communities. And I think that being 119 00:07:52.020 --> 00:07:55.860 raised with deaf parents gives you a different perspective 120 00:07:55.860 --> 00:07:58.700 on how you treat others. 121 00:08:00.140 --> 00:08:03.900 So if you were in the middle of your siblings, you had the 122 00:08:03.900 --> 00:08:07.100 advantage of having older brothers or sisters to 123 00:08:07.580 --> 00:08:10.930 interface before you, if you like. So your oldest sibling 124 00:08:11.570 --> 00:08:14.690 must have had the biggest challenge of being the interface. 125 00:08:15.810 --> 00:08:19.570 Yeah. And what's strange is I was. I was always the main 126 00:08:19.570 --> 00:08:23.570 person with my parents when we. When I went to. Yeah. So. And I 127 00:08:23.570 --> 00:08:26.610 don't know how that ended up coming about, but, yeah, I. I was the main 128 00:08:26.610 --> 00:08:29.730 one that always helped to interpret when I. When I was little and 129 00:08:30.530 --> 00:08:34.490 help them get through. Through things with, like the. The Met medical 130 00:08:34.490 --> 00:08:38.110 appointments and the. And things. Things like that, where you have to actually be there 131 00:08:38.110 --> 00:08:41.470 for them, to help them, guide them. So that, that must mean quite a weight 132 00:08:41.470 --> 00:08:44.950 of responsibility to be being a young person and being the 133 00:08:44.950 --> 00:08:48.230 primary, I suppose, carer in certain situations. 134 00:08:48.870 --> 00:08:52.830 Yeah. And I think that that's why seeing my parents get taken advantage 135 00:08:52.830 --> 00:08:56.750 of a lot. And I always promised myself, even when I was younger, 136 00:08:56.750 --> 00:09:00.350 that I will never, ever let anybody feel left out or not 137 00:09:00.350 --> 00:09:04.350 included or feel not seen. And so that was always my mission ever 138 00:09:04.350 --> 00:09:08.320 since I was little. One thing I've heard other deaf people tell me is that 139 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:12.280 when you have an interpreter, it's really important to speak to the 140 00:09:12.280 --> 00:09:16.160 person, not to the interpreter. Because sometimes people will talk to the 141 00:09:16.160 --> 00:09:19.880 person doing the interpreting, not to the person you're trying to. That's quite an insult, 142 00:09:19.880 --> 00:09:23.640 really, isn't it? You're almost cutting them out. Yeah, exactly. And that is so 143 00:09:23.640 --> 00:09:27.480 true, because when we do our closings, a lot of the times the 144 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:31.400 closer will actually talk to the interpreter. And then my client will be 145 00:09:31.400 --> 00:09:35.200 like, no, you need to talk to me directly. And then. Cause you 146 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:39.010 just. You make it seem like the interpreter's not there. And then. So 147 00:09:39.010 --> 00:09:42.770 when. When we do the video phones, like the, the relay, we also are talking 148 00:09:42.770 --> 00:09:46.530 to them as if we're talking to the person. So you, You. You always talk 149 00:09:46.530 --> 00:09:50.370 to them and face them instead of the interpreter. And 150 00:09:50.370 --> 00:09:54.170 even with, like, sign language and ASL is very expressive. 151 00:09:54.170 --> 00:09:58.010 And that's how. Because, you know, with our voices, we can do emotion. And 152 00:09:58.090 --> 00:10:01.770 so with sign language, we do it with our expressions and everything. 153 00:10:01.930 --> 00:10:05.490 And so even with. Yeah, exactly. And I still do that. I always move my 154 00:10:05.490 --> 00:10:09.270 hands, you know, when I'm talking, well, Italian. So maybe that has something to do 155 00:10:09.270 --> 00:10:13.110 with Italian. Yeah, exactly. 156 00:10:14.310 --> 00:10:18.270 But we can't. It's hard for me to talk to people if they have sunglasses 157 00:10:18.270 --> 00:10:22.110 on. And so. Because I have to see them and I have to, like, 158 00:10:22.110 --> 00:10:26.110 see their expressions on their faces. So, yeah, I think looking at someone is 159 00:10:26.110 --> 00:10:30.070 very important. And even not in just asl, I think just communication in general, 160 00:10:30.070 --> 00:10:33.900 you should always just look at the person so they can feel, like, 161 00:10:33.900 --> 00:10:37.700 seen and heard. I found that I used to go to networking meetings quite often 162 00:10:37.700 --> 00:10:41.620 in business, and the number of times you'd shake someone's hand 163 00:10:42.820 --> 00:10:46.740 and they'd look away from you or they start talking over here. And 164 00:10:47.220 --> 00:10:50.860 I developed a technique where you don't let go of their hand until they look 165 00:10:50.860 --> 00:10:54.460 at you, they're sort of trying to shake your hand and they're moving on. You 166 00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:58.220 just hold their hand and they go, oh, thank 167 00:10:58.220 --> 00:11:02.220 you. Now we're talking. Yeah, yeah, just 168 00:11:02.220 --> 00:11:05.820 don't let go. And it really confuses them. I'm start doing that from now on. 169 00:11:06.220 --> 00:11:09.300 I was wanting, I was waiting for you to look at me. Then they realised 170 00:11:09.300 --> 00:11:12.580 how rude they've been by doing this and they walk off. That's why I'm for 171 00:11:12.580 --> 00:11:16.100 the wrong video here. So if you're watching, what I'm doing is, I'm actually, I'm 172 00:11:16.100 --> 00:11:19.500 doing this simulated shaking towards handle. What happens is sometimes people walk into a room 173 00:11:19.740 --> 00:11:23.260 and they don't look at you while they're shaking their hands. I just visually just 174 00:11:23.820 --> 00:11:27.620 was playing that out on camera. But if you're listening to this on the, on 175 00:11:27.620 --> 00:11:29.740 the audio, you won't be able to, you won't be able to see me. So 176 00:11:29.740 --> 00:11:33.140 I thought we better make that inclusive if we're not careful. Talk about, talk about 177 00:11:33.140 --> 00:11:36.580 hearing. But also there's, there's a sight issue here as well, if you're any 178 00:11:36.580 --> 00:11:40.300 listening anyway. Yeah. So, yeah, I. People 179 00:11:40.300 --> 00:11:44.060 can. I'm going to start doing that. But people aren't doing it deliberately. They're just, 180 00:11:44.140 --> 00:11:48.100 they're just not, they're just not focused, are they? Yeah, 181 00:11:48.100 --> 00:11:51.580 they're just, I don't want to say self absorbed but they're not like, 182 00:11:52.950 --> 00:11:56.950 they're not making. That's how a lot of people feel, like excluded and 183 00:11:56.950 --> 00:12:00.750 not feel seen. I don't know if it sounds strange or not, but I 184 00:12:00.750 --> 00:12:04.430 learned about this need to look at the person, not the 185 00:12:04.430 --> 00:12:07.989 interpreter. And I think it was an episode of Star Trek Next 186 00:12:07.989 --> 00:12:11.470 Generation where one of the species or the 187 00:12:11.470 --> 00:12:15.390 characters couldn't hear and they always had an interpreter with them. And 188 00:12:15.390 --> 00:12:19.190 I think Jean Luc Picard or Reich or something kept looking at the interpreter 189 00:12:19.590 --> 00:12:22.670 and they said, no, no, look at, look at the king, look at, look at 190 00:12:22.670 --> 00:12:26.070 the emperor or something. It's like it stuck with me. And that was, I don't 191 00:12:26.070 --> 00:12:29.870 know, 20, 30, 40 years ago when I was watching that. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. 192 00:12:29.870 --> 00:12:32.710 And that happens a lot actually. A lot, a lot. So I have to like 193 00:12:32.710 --> 00:12:36.670 judge up and say, make sure you're, you're talking to the client. Like just pretend 194 00:12:36.670 --> 00:12:39.910 like the interpreter's not there. All she's doing is just interpreting. 195 00:12:41.030 --> 00:12:44.750 Yeah, I've been in situations where there's been some deaf people and the 196 00:12:44.750 --> 00:12:48.540 interpreters in, around and because 197 00:12:48.620 --> 00:12:52.620 you consciously don't focus on the Interpreter. It almost feels rude 198 00:12:53.180 --> 00:12:56.700 that you almost want to say, I see you as well. But 199 00:12:57.020 --> 00:13:00.460 there's often such in the background. And the protocol is talk to the person, 200 00:13:00.940 --> 00:13:04.860 not to the interpreter. But I just feel that the interpreter sometimes feels like a 201 00:13:04.860 --> 00:13:08.660 spare part in the whole thing. Yeah, I was feeling embarrassed for not 202 00:13:08.660 --> 00:13:12.460 talking to them. Sometimes I go after and say, just want to say 203 00:13:12.460 --> 00:13:15.580 I see you as well. Yeah, exactly. Just say hi. And just say hi. 204 00:13:16.710 --> 00:13:19.670 I see. Thank you so much for interpreting. 205 00:13:20.470 --> 00:13:24.110 Yeah. And then go, yeah, Otherwise. Otherwise they're almost like a 206 00:13:24.110 --> 00:13:27.110 utility piece in the background. I don't know if you find that sometimes 207 00:13:27.830 --> 00:13:30.950 you're just in the background and no one ever acknowledges you. 208 00:13:31.430 --> 00:13:35.350 Yeah, exactly. And that's how I feel. Like a lot of us growing up was 209 00:13:35.350 --> 00:13:39.350 for my parents. And so because they do get excluded because people don't want to 210 00:13:39.350 --> 00:13:43.270 try, like just try to communicate with them or if they think that 211 00:13:43.270 --> 00:13:46.950 they can't communicate, they just won't. They'll just shuck them 212 00:13:46.950 --> 00:13:50.710 aside instead of just trying with them. Did you ever have 213 00:13:50.710 --> 00:13:54.110 to deal with people asking 214 00:13:54.830 --> 00:13:58.710 silly questions like, can't they have hearing aids? Or why don't they have cochlear 215 00:13:58.710 --> 00:14:02.350 implants? Or can they have a surgery or can they be fixed? Do they have 216 00:14:02.350 --> 00:14:05.910 to have to fend off questions like that often? Oh, yes, a lot when we 217 00:14:05.910 --> 00:14:09.650 were kids, like, why can't they talk normal? Or. 218 00:14:09.970 --> 00:14:13.930 And then like asking about the hearing aids. And then the other one is, does 219 00:14:13.930 --> 00:14:17.450 it feel? Or how was it like growing up with deaf parents? And then I'm 220 00:14:17.450 --> 00:14:20.850 like, well, how was it like growing up with hearing parents? Like, it's our normal, 221 00:14:21.090 --> 00:14:24.929 so it's the same thing. But yeah, now we got. We got stared at a 222 00:14:24.929 --> 00:14:28.770 lot. And I still am, like, self conscious even now, like getting 223 00:14:28.770 --> 00:14:32.570 stared at. And so I think that. And sign language is 224 00:14:32.570 --> 00:14:36.050 beautiful too. Like, if you just. I mean, to be able to speak with your 225 00:14:36.050 --> 00:14:39.950 hands is, I think, absolutely amazing. And to be able 226 00:14:39.950 --> 00:14:42.750 to be able to do stuff in words. And I think a lot of people 227 00:14:43.150 --> 00:14:46.790 maybe take that not for granted, but like, not really 228 00:14:46.790 --> 00:14:50.270 knowing that or what it is and always look at it as something 229 00:14:50.670 --> 00:14:54.590 different, but it's not. It's. We're just communicating just in a different language. 230 00:14:54.590 --> 00:14:58.390 Well, you. One of your superpowers, I guess, is you can communicate across a room 231 00:14:58.390 --> 00:15:01.630 in silence, can't you? Yes. You can have a conversation 232 00:15:02.110 --> 00:15:05.910 20ft apart. Yeah. So if. Yeah, exactly. 233 00:15:05.910 --> 00:15:09.910 If my sisters or my brothers are like, down, like the room, I can 234 00:15:09.910 --> 00:15:13.270 sign if I needed them to go Grab me something. Or if we're like a 235 00:15:13.270 --> 00:15:16.950 long line at the restaurant, I can tell them can you get me a drink? 236 00:15:16.950 --> 00:15:20.870 And we can communicate way across the room. Do either of your parents 237 00:15:20.870 --> 00:15:24.750 actually verbalise at all? Or they could or they, they're non verbal or they, 238 00:15:24.750 --> 00:15:28.670 they try and speak. So my dad was nonverbal, he barely ever 239 00:15:28.670 --> 00:15:32.590 spoke. I probably heard him say maybe two things his entire life but my 240 00:15:32.590 --> 00:15:36.470 mom did speak. So she and I, and I don't know if it's because 241 00:15:36.470 --> 00:15:40.390 she was born deaf that made, I mean born, not deaf, 242 00:15:40.950 --> 00:15:44.910 born hearing that made the difference. I've 243 00:15:44.910 --> 00:15:48.510 always wondered that. But yeah, my mom did speak so we would know if we 244 00:15:48.510 --> 00:15:51.590 were in. Trouble I guess if she had as you said, I think you said 245 00:15:51.590 --> 00:15:55.110 nine months or so before she lost her hearing. So she would have heard 246 00:15:55.350 --> 00:15:59.160 her father, her mother, her, her environment as words. 247 00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:03.040 So she would have learned some words, I guess. Yeah, yeah, she would 248 00:16:03.040 --> 00:16:06.920 learn some. But they, they. Well my mom didn't like, she would like 249 00:16:06.920 --> 00:16:10.880 my name's Maria but she would say Biwika as my name. And so 250 00:16:10.880 --> 00:16:14.880 they don't know the, or my mom didn't know like the, what words 251 00:16:14.880 --> 00:16:18.600 sounded like. So it'd be like yes, their words. 252 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:22.600 But we understood it and I, I can even understand 253 00:16:22.920 --> 00:16:26.520 accents, even heavy accents. And I think it's because I grew up 254 00:16:27.170 --> 00:16:30.810 with that because you're, you have to listen and, and try to figure out what, 255 00:16:30.810 --> 00:16:34.610 what they're, they're saying. So for me it's very easy to have different accents and 256 00:16:34.610 --> 00:16:38.410 things like that. I can understand it. So it must have been a real challenge 257 00:16:38.410 --> 00:16:41.410 and I, I don't want to sound like I'm being patronising here but it must 258 00:16:41.410 --> 00:16:45.290 be a challenge for your parents to learn to get on 259 00:16:45.290 --> 00:16:49.170 In a world where hearing is taken for for granted. Hearing 260 00:16:49.170 --> 00:16:53.170 also enables you speech. You learned how to read, read 261 00:16:53.170 --> 00:16:57.050 and write by through audible language as 262 00:16:57.050 --> 00:17:00.890 well. How did your parents learn to read and write? I mean it 263 00:17:00.890 --> 00:17:04.490 must be a lot harder. Maybe reading might be easier but they obviously hear different 264 00:17:04.490 --> 00:17:07.890 words in their head as they read. They must recognise the word but they don't 265 00:17:07.890 --> 00:17:11.570 know. They have a different way of processing that when we read a book we 266 00:17:11.730 --> 00:17:15.730 almost say it to ourselves, say the words out loud in our head sometimes. 267 00:17:16.450 --> 00:17:20.230 I asked, it's funny that you said that because I asked my mom one time 268 00:17:20.230 --> 00:17:24.070 I had to do a, a high school like thesis and 269 00:17:24.470 --> 00:17:28.470 when I was graduating and it was about dreams and I had 270 00:17:28.470 --> 00:17:31.590 asked my mom and dad if they can hear in their, in their Dreams. And 271 00:17:31.590 --> 00:17:34.990 they said yes. And so I'm like, oh, that's like. And I thought that was 272 00:17:34.990 --> 00:17:38.470 so interesting. And then. And then supposedly blind 273 00:17:38.950 --> 00:17:42.670 people can actually see in their dreams as well. So they did go to a 274 00:17:42.670 --> 00:17:46.480 deaf boarding school growing up. So then I think it's just teaching them 275 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:50.440 how to read and write because they. But. And then also when you 276 00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:53.960 lose your hearing, you all your other senses heighten up too, 277 00:17:54.280 --> 00:17:57.920 so you like, you watch better. You. And the 278 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:00.920 gesticulations. And the Italian. And the Italian, 279 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:06.200 yeah. So 280 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:09.240 what's the biggest challenge in the world today for them? I mean, we've talked about 281 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:13.170 a few things around acceptance, but I'd like 282 00:18:13.170 --> 00:18:16.490 to think the world is getting a better place than it was 10, 20, 30 283 00:18:16.490 --> 00:18:20.410 years ago. Yeah, it's so advanced now. Like before we didn't have 284 00:18:20.410 --> 00:18:24.370 like the. We have the video relay services now where you can 285 00:18:24.370 --> 00:18:28.170 see somebody on the video and it's an interpreter on the other line, which 286 00:18:28.170 --> 00:18:31.730 we didn't have that back then. We had. It's called a tty. 287 00:18:31.970 --> 00:18:35.610 So you just. It was like a little machine and you typed and then it 288 00:18:35.610 --> 00:18:39.480 would go to the other machine on the other end. And. But now there's. There's 289 00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:42.360 a lot of apps that you can do now that will 290 00:18:42.840 --> 00:18:46.280 interpret. Like you could just show. Show it to them and then 291 00:18:46.280 --> 00:18:49.880 texting. So I think that it's just awareness now and 292 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:54.240 letting people know that they're just like 293 00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:58.160 us. Like in the deaf and hard of hearing community is just like 294 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:01.680 the, the hearing world. They. They just communicate in a different language. So you used 295 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:05.610 to use a phrase there. Deaf and hard of hearing. What's the 296 00:19:05.610 --> 00:19:08.690 difference for those who are listening? When is someone deaf? When is someone hard of 297 00:19:08.690 --> 00:19:12.330 hearing? What's the difference? So when you're 298 00:19:12.330 --> 00:19:16.170 deaf, you're like 100% deaf, so you can't really hear. 299 00:19:16.330 --> 00:19:19.610 And then hard of hearing is when you've just lost 300 00:19:20.570 --> 00:19:24.290 some or most of your hearing. So the deaf culture is 301 00:19:24.290 --> 00:19:27.930 usually always deaf and hard of hearing because they all go in one. And 302 00:19:28.170 --> 00:19:31.390 so profoundly deaf means completely deaf, doesn't it? Yes. 303 00:19:32.030 --> 00:19:35.910 At the. Hard of hearing is a level of deafness. It's not 304 00:19:35.910 --> 00:19:39.390 complete, but it's enough more than. 305 00:19:40.270 --> 00:19:44.190 Yeah, it puts you into a different bracket. And then you've got. Hearing impaired or 306 00:19:44.190 --> 00:19:47.229 hard of hearing is a different category. Is it? 307 00:19:48.270 --> 00:19:52.110 Yeah. So they're hearing impaired and deaf and hard of hearing. They all. 308 00:19:52.990 --> 00:19:56.350 It just shows. Or the difference I would say would be 309 00:19:57.040 --> 00:20:00.840 the percentage of what your deaf or. Because my 310 00:20:00.840 --> 00:20:04.640 dad was 100% deaf in both ears. And then my mom 311 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:08.600 was like. I think she was like 95 in one and 90 in the other. 312 00:20:08.600 --> 00:20:12.400 So she was profoundly deaf. And so I think it just depends on 313 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:16.200 the percentage. But the deaf and hard of 314 00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:19.600 hearing community is all lumped into the deaf culture. 315 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:24.570 Yeah. I've heard in the UK that someone who is profoundly deaf 316 00:20:24.570 --> 00:20:28.050 or completely, completely deaf uses a capital D 317 00:20:28.690 --> 00:20:31.890 for their deafness, whereas people who are 318 00:20:32.610 --> 00:20:36.130 not profound or completely deaf use a 319 00:20:36.130 --> 00:20:39.970 lowercase D. Is that similar to the culture in America? 320 00:20:40.850 --> 00:20:44.810 No, out here we do. So the deaf and hard of hearing. So the 321 00:20:44.810 --> 00:20:48.570 D is capitalised and then the H is capitalised, and the 322 00:20:48.570 --> 00:20:52.490 other H for deaf and hard of hearing. That's if you're 323 00:20:52.490 --> 00:20:56.410 speaking about them, like the deaf and hard of hearing community, those would be 324 00:20:56.730 --> 00:21:00.650 capitalised, capitalised. But then if you. Yeah, and then if you do just 325 00:21:00.650 --> 00:21:04.650 the deaf culture, like, that would be in lower clique. Yeah. 326 00:21:04.650 --> 00:21:08.010 So it's a bit like capital B for black, for someone's identity. 327 00:21:09.290 --> 00:21:13.170 It's reinforcing that. There's so many different nuances, isn't there, 328 00:21:13.170 --> 00:21:15.610 that an outsider of the community, 329 00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:19.480 if they're not aware of the culture of deafness, 330 00:21:20.840 --> 00:21:24.760 you're. Well, you are unaware of these little 331 00:21:24.760 --> 00:21:28.360 nuances that you've got to be careful of. Yeah, 332 00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:32.319 exactly. Because you can say or do something that's 333 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:35.800 actually very insulting to the community. 334 00:21:36.040 --> 00:21:39.640 And so I think that's where awareness comes in and just 335 00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:44.320 trying to learn about the culture. Or even if you see someone 336 00:21:44.320 --> 00:21:48.250 who's not hearing and they're trying to find something, go ahead and, like, tap 337 00:21:48.250 --> 00:21:51.530 on their shoulder and see if you can help them. Or. Because you could even 338 00:21:51.530 --> 00:21:54.690 put on your phone, like text it in your notes and just show. Show it 339 00:21:54.690 --> 00:21:58.290 to them, like, do you need any help? Yeah. In modern technology, as you say, 340 00:21:58.450 --> 00:22:02.010 you've got these devices, apps now, where it'll convert 341 00:22:02.010 --> 00:22:05.890 speech to text and even translate it into a different language as 342 00:22:05.890 --> 00:22:09.770 well. Yeah. It must have radicalised and changed the whole 343 00:22:09.770 --> 00:22:13.720 experience. Oh, yeah, it's changed. Between my mom and her 344 00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:17.400 medical appointments when she had cancer, to my dad 345 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:19.960 24 years later was completely different. 346 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:25.640 So, yeah, it's definitely advanced and still moving. 347 00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:30.360 As a hearing person myself, my go to entertainment is cinema, 348 00:22:30.760 --> 00:22:34.720 it's tv. Your parents probably didn't grow up in that 349 00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:37.970 kind of world. So do they. Are they big 350 00:22:38.290 --> 00:22:42.290 tv, watches, subtitles, or is that something that they just do something 351 00:22:42.290 --> 00:22:46.290 different instead? Yeah, the closed captioning now. So we 352 00:22:46.290 --> 00:22:50.290 have, I think back, like, when I was little, I don't know if we 353 00:22:50.370 --> 00:22:53.970 had it when I was little, but we did. It did, like, develop into closed 354 00:22:54.450 --> 00:22:58.290 captions. So now that's, like, everywhere. And then now they have, like, before, they didn't 355 00:22:58.290 --> 00:23:01.970 have interpreters at speaking events or the news or 356 00:23:02.050 --> 00:23:05.980 concerts, and now they do, which is amazing because it used to 357 00:23:05.980 --> 00:23:09.940 not have, like, any of that stuff back then. Yeah. I 358 00:23:09.940 --> 00:23:13.620 see on the tv, America seems better at it than we are in the uk. 359 00:23:14.100 --> 00:23:17.860 The uk, we are getting better. But things like the super 360 00:23:17.860 --> 00:23:21.700 bowl, those sort of things, always have a signed interpreter in the corner, don't they? 361 00:23:22.420 --> 00:23:26.180 And the closed captioning is more rigorously enforced than I think it is 362 00:23:26.180 --> 00:23:29.980 here. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely. And you can even now, 363 00:23:29.980 --> 00:23:33.900 like on YouTube or even Instagram and things like that, there's a button 364 00:23:33.900 --> 00:23:37.740 that you can press that'll actually translate what they're saying. Yeah. 365 00:23:37.740 --> 00:23:41.580 Into close captioning. Yeah. So it's 366 00:23:41.580 --> 00:23:44.620 definitely more obvious now than it was. Yeah. And in conference and things like that, 367 00:23:44.620 --> 00:23:48.060 you could scan QR codes and it will link you through to the thing and 368 00:23:48.060 --> 00:23:51.900 you can get the transcription on your phone so you can be sitting in the 369 00:23:51.900 --> 00:23:54.860 audience and not. They don't have to put it on all the boards. You can 370 00:23:54.860 --> 00:23:56.700 just sit in the phone and have your own private caption you. Can just see 371 00:23:56.700 --> 00:24:00.700 on the phone. Yeah, exactly. So it's definitely a lot better now than it 372 00:24:00.700 --> 00:24:04.500 was back then. So you wrote this book called Raised in 373 00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:08.500 Silence, and that's the storey of your journey for you. I mean, 374 00:24:08.500 --> 00:24:10.900 we talked a bit. A lot about your parents now. So let's talk a bit 375 00:24:10.900 --> 00:24:13.900 about you and your experience growing up and 376 00:24:16.060 --> 00:24:19.340 what prompted you to write the book. I think 377 00:24:20.060 --> 00:24:23.660 when I was building. Well, I've always wanted to make people feel 378 00:24:23.820 --> 00:24:27.610 included and not isolated, and I feel like I wanted to 379 00:24:27.770 --> 00:24:31.370 write about it to make people just aware of, like, the community. 380 00:24:31.450 --> 00:24:35.370 There's funny storeys in there, there's tips in there for. On 381 00:24:35.370 --> 00:24:38.650 what. What to do and what not not to do. And then I feel like 382 00:24:38.650 --> 00:24:41.890 there was a moment in my life when I realised I was building a. A 383 00:24:41.890 --> 00:24:45.850 successful career and watching people I cared about get, like, left out 384 00:24:45.850 --> 00:24:49.850 in the process. So I was doing very well in industry 385 00:24:50.090 --> 00:24:54.090 standards and everything, but I wasn't. I didn't feel like I was serving the community. 386 00:24:54.250 --> 00:24:58.200 And it's a very underserved community community. So I think that's what shaped me. 387 00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:01.840 I think it. It made me seeing that at the end, that my client, 388 00:25:02.560 --> 00:25:06.480 like, before feeling invisible before, like, the asl, and then just seeing 389 00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:09.520 Them feel very included and happy, 390 00:25:10.320 --> 00:25:14.120 you know, buying their first home and because that's a big life 391 00:25:14.120 --> 00:25:18.040 investment and so not being able to understand what they're signing 392 00:25:18.040 --> 00:25:21.360 or what. What they're. They're doing. I think. I think that. That that's why I. 393 00:25:21.360 --> 00:25:25.120 I wrote the book is just for awareness and just make people feel included 394 00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:28.940 in all, like, all. Not just the deaf and hard of 395 00:25:28.940 --> 00:25:32.940 hearing community. So which other communities do you work with? 396 00:25:33.020 --> 00:25:37.020 So, accessibility. So someone who has a disability or 397 00:25:37.020 --> 00:25:40.220 someone who's blind or so you're working with to make 398 00:25:41.020 --> 00:25:44.980 the whole buying process accessible for all. For all. Yeah. And 399 00:25:44.980 --> 00:25:48.900 then I work with the LGBTQ community. My son is gay, and so when he 400 00:25:48.900 --> 00:25:52.460 came out, that was just very easy for us because we were 401 00:25:52.540 --> 00:25:56.460