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Joanne Lockwood: And today is episode 195 with the
Joanne Lockwood: title Bridging Silent Worlds. And I have the
Joanne Lockwood: absolute honour and privilege to welcome Maria Gallucci.
Joanne Lockwood: Maria is a multi award winning Realtor,
Joanne Lockwood: Altcoder stands for Child of Deaf Adults,
Joanne Lockwood: and author of Raised in Silence. She also
Joanne Lockwood: builds accessible home buying experiences and championing,
Joanne Lockwood: I can never say championing, championing empathy between deaf
Joanne Lockwood: and hearing communities. And when I asked Maria to describe
Joanne Lockwood: herself, she said that it is radical empathy that
Joanne Lockwood: bridges deaf and hearing worlds. Hello,
Joanne Lockwood: Maria, welcome to the show. Absolute pleasure. Absolute pleasure. And we were
Joanne Lockwood: chatting in the green room before we went live about your ancestry,
Joanne Lockwood: where are you from and where do you descend from in the past?
Maria Gallucci: So I'm Italian and we live in Denver, Colorado now,
Maria Gallucci: but we're second generation Italians in the United
Maria Gallucci: States. And I was born in New Hampshire but basically raised in Colorado
Maria Gallucci: because we. Were talking about how the pronunciation of your name
Joanne Lockwood: is. People see the Cs and they pronounce it kind of an
Joanne Lockwood: American way, but not in the Italian way. So Gallucci. So CH is
Joanne Lockwood: the C. Yeah, exactly. And everyone always just did Galu sea, which it's actually.
Maria Gallucci: Gallucci. Yeah, that's really. Yeah. And I was, I was wondering
Joanne Lockwood: the other day, you know, historical character Julius Caesar, should he be
Joanne Lockwood: really Julius Cheeser? Yeah, that's true.
Joanne Lockwood: I always wondered that. Rewrite history books the world over.
Maria Gallucci: Yeah. To redo all the class stuff that we learned. Yeah. Hail
Joanne Lockwood: Cheeser and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, so it's. Yeah, I always wondered
Joanne Lockwood: that. But. So Maria, you, as I said in the
Joanne Lockwood: intro, you're the child of deaf adults and you grew up
Joanne Lockwood: in a. In a world where silence was the norm for them. But
Joanne Lockwood: obviously You're a hearing child. That must have been
Joanne Lockwood: a challenge because you must have also had to be their
Joanne Lockwood: sign interpreter or their interpreter from the hearing to the not
Joanne Lockwood: hearing world. Yeah, we were always the gap
Maria Gallucci: between the hearing and the non hearing world and so we always had to interpret
Maria Gallucci: for their medical appointments or any financial things.
Maria Gallucci: And there's six of us kids and we're all hearing and both of our parents
Maria Gallucci: were deaf. So ASL was our first language. And then my mom always
Maria Gallucci: said we learned how to speak through the TV and obviously school
Maria Gallucci: and things like that. So ASL is all we've known since we were
Maria Gallucci: kids. Asl, that's American Sign Language.
Maria Gallucci: Yes, American Sign Lang language. Every country has their own
Maria Gallucci: signs. Like, because it's not a universal language,
Joanne Lockwood: you don't translate, do you? It's a completely independent language.
Maria Gallucci: Yes, Yep. And we always say things, we reverse things like Spanish,
Maria Gallucci: how they do the reversal, that's how we sign as well. Where
Maria Gallucci: English is the different. So ASL and bsl different syntax
Joanne Lockwood: and context. Is it? Yes. Yeah, it's all, it's. It's different. Like in,
Maria Gallucci: I think my mom always said in the Philippines, I think it was, they would
Maria Gallucci: actually like use their hands to do signs. Like their bodies to
Maria Gallucci: do. Do the signs. Where in AASL we do. We do it with our
Maria Gallucci: hands. Wow. So there's no universal
Joanne Lockwood: sign language. No, no. But every, every has, everyone
Maria Gallucci: has their own. It's like having accents too. Yeah. Wow.
Joanne Lockwood: So different parts of the country have different signs for different
Joanne Lockwood: words, do they? Yes. Yep. Yep, they do. It's completely different.
Joanne Lockwood: That must be tricky to learn, I
Joanne Lockwood: guess as a non native or a non
Joanne Lockwood: child growing up with signings. So you have to learn it, but if you're travelling
Joanne Lockwood: around the country you have to learn that there's different dialects as well. Were your
Joanne Lockwood: parents ever hearing or were they born without hearing? So
Maria Gallucci: my dad was born deaf and then my mom became deaf at nine
Maria Gallucci: months because she had, I think it was the measles and the mumps at the
Maria Gallucci: same time when she was nine months. So she was raised deaf, but
Maria Gallucci: she, she was actually not born deaf. And all, all of us six, six
Maria Gallucci: kids are hearing, so none of us were deaf. Okay.
Joanne Lockwood: So I've got a friend who has cochlear implants and she, she lost
Joanne Lockwood: her hearing probably in the childhood, I think five or
Joanne Lockwood: six years old. So she had a few years off hearing, which makes the cochlear
Joanne Lockwood: implants easier to process because she knows what hearing is. But it
Joanne Lockwood: must be extremely Difficult for maybe both your parents
Joanne Lockwood: because they've never heard. It's such an
Joanne Lockwood: integral part of my experience that how can I
Joanne Lockwood: describe something without ever having heard something? Yes,
Maria Gallucci: I agree. I agree with that because. Well, back then, they had.
Maria Gallucci: It wasn't the implants, but it was something else that they had that they put
Maria Gallucci: on their ear. Like, they've come advanced on that stuff. And my mom,
Maria Gallucci: they never wore hearing aids. It gave her migraines, so she always, like, took
Maria Gallucci: off the hearing aids. So I think that when you're born deaf, it is
Maria Gallucci: different because you've never heard. And so a lot of people struggle with, like,
Maria Gallucci: headaches and things like that when they put the implants in or
Maria Gallucci: even use the hearing aids. Is your. Are your parents proud of their deafness?
Joanne Lockwood: It's part of their identity. It's not just a. They don't see it as a
Joanne Lockwood: disability. It's more that they're proud to be deaf.
Maria Gallucci: Yes, exactly. And I'm proud to be a coda. It gives you a
Maria Gallucci: different perspective on people and being inclusive and
Maria Gallucci: things like that. Yeah, I've heard that before. But it's like other
Joanne Lockwood: disabilities or conditions where people don't feel they need to be fixed.
Joanne Lockwood: They're perfectly okay as they are, and they're not broken. They don't need
Joanne Lockwood: someone to come fix them. They just are. Yeah. They're
Maria Gallucci: being their authentic self. They don't feel like they're.
Maria Gallucci: They're anything different than who they are. So what challenges did you face
Joanne Lockwood: as a child growing up in this world?
Joanne Lockwood: Were you the oldest of your siblings or in the middle of their siblings? I'm
Maria Gallucci: in the middle. Yeah. So I'm the third to the oldest. Yeah. And so I
Maria Gallucci: think it was just having people making them feel different than they
Maria Gallucci: are, not accepted, and seeing my parents be
Maria Gallucci: like. Or we all of us being made fun of because we signed
Maria Gallucci: or because our parents didn't, you know, talk. So I think
Maria Gallucci: that it gave us more empathy towards people
Maria Gallucci: and communities. And I think that being
Maria Gallucci: raised with deaf parents gives you a different perspective
Maria Gallucci: on how you treat others.
Joanne Lockwood: So if you were in the middle of your siblings, you had the
Joanne Lockwood: advantage of having older brothers or sisters to
Joanne Lockwood: interface before you, if you like. So your oldest sibling
Joanne Lockwood: must have had the biggest challenge of being the interface.
Maria Gallucci: Yeah. And what's strange is I was. I was always the main
Maria Gallucci: person with my parents when we. When I went to. Yeah. So. And I
Maria Gallucci: don't know how that ended up coming about, but, yeah, I. I was the main
Maria Gallucci: one that always helped to interpret when I. When I was little and
Maria Gallucci: help them get through. Through things with, like the. The Met medical
Maria Gallucci: appointments and the. And things. Things like that, where you have to actually be there
Maria Gallucci: for them, to help them, guide them. So that, that must mean quite a weight
Joanne Lockwood: of responsibility to be being a young person and being the
Joanne Lockwood: primary, I suppose, carer in certain situations.
Maria Gallucci: Yeah. And I think that that's why seeing my parents get taken advantage
Maria Gallucci: of a lot. And I always promised myself, even when I was younger,
Maria Gallucci: that I will never, ever let anybody feel left out or not
Maria Gallucci: included or feel not seen. And so that was always my mission ever
Maria Gallucci: since I was little. One thing I've heard other deaf people tell me is that
Joanne Lockwood: when you have an interpreter, it's really important to speak to the
Joanne Lockwood: person, not to the interpreter. Because sometimes people will talk to the
Joanne Lockwood: person doing the interpreting, not to the person you're trying to. That's quite an insult,
Joanne Lockwood: really, isn't it? You're almost cutting them out. Yeah, exactly. And that is so
Maria Gallucci: true, because when we do our closings, a lot of the times the
Maria Gallucci: closer will actually talk to the interpreter. And then my client will be
Maria Gallucci: like, no, you need to talk to me directly. And then. Cause you
Maria Gallucci: just. You make it seem like the interpreter's not there. And then. So
Maria Gallucci: when. When we do the video phones, like the, the relay, we also are talking
Maria Gallucci: to them as if we're talking to the person. So you, You. You always talk
Maria Gallucci: to them and face them instead of the interpreter. And
Maria Gallucci: even with, like, sign language and ASL is very expressive.
Maria Gallucci: And that's how. Because, you know, with our voices, we can do emotion. And
Maria Gallucci: so with sign language, we do it with our expressions and everything.
Maria Gallucci: And so even with. Yeah, exactly. And I still do that. I always move my
Maria Gallucci: hands, you know, when I'm talking, well, Italian. So maybe that has something to do
Joanne Lockwood: with Italian. Yeah, exactly.
Maria Gallucci: But we can't. It's hard for me to talk to people if they have sunglasses
Maria Gallucci: on. And so. Because I have to see them and I have to, like,
Maria Gallucci: see their expressions on their faces. So, yeah, I think looking at someone is
Maria Gallucci: very important. And even not in just asl, I think just communication in general,
Maria Gallucci: you should always just look at the person so they can feel, like,
Maria Gallucci: seen and heard. I found that I used to go to networking meetings quite often
Joanne Lockwood: in business, and the number of times you'd shake someone's hand
Joanne Lockwood: and they'd look away from you or they start talking over here. And
Joanne Lockwood: I developed a technique where you don't let go of their hand until they look
Joanne Lockwood: at you, they're sort of trying to shake your hand and they're moving on. You
Joanne Lockwood: just hold their hand and they go, oh, thank
Joanne Lockwood: you. Now we're talking. Yeah, yeah, just
Joanne Lockwood: don't let go. And it really confuses them. I'm start doing that from now on.
Joanne Lockwood: I was wanting, I was waiting for you to look at me. Then they realised
Joanne Lockwood: how rude they've been by doing this and they walk off. That's why I'm for
Joanne Lockwood: the wrong video here. So if you're watching, what I'm doing is, I'm actually, I'm
Joanne Lockwood: doing this simulated shaking towards handle. What happens is sometimes people walk into a room
Joanne Lockwood: and they don't look at you while they're shaking their hands. I just visually just
Joanne Lockwood: was playing that out on camera. But if you're listening to this on the, on
Joanne Lockwood: the audio, you won't be able to, you won't be able to see me. So
Joanne Lockwood: I thought we better make that inclusive if we're not careful. Talk about, talk about
Joanne Lockwood: hearing. But also there's, there's a sight issue here as well, if you're any
Joanne Lockwood: listening anyway. Yeah. So, yeah, I. People
Joanne Lockwood: can. I'm going to start doing that. But people aren't doing it deliberately. They're just,
Joanne Lockwood: they're just not, they're just not focused, are they? Yeah,
Maria Gallucci: they're just, I don't want to say self absorbed but they're not like,
Maria Gallucci: they're not making. That's how a lot of people feel, like excluded and
Maria Gallucci: not feel seen. I don't know if it sounds strange or not, but I
Joanne Lockwood: learned about this need to look at the person, not the
Joanne Lockwood: interpreter. And I think it was an episode of Star Trek Next
Joanne Lockwood: Generation where one of the species or the
Joanne Lockwood: characters couldn't hear and they always had an interpreter with them. And
Joanne Lockwood: I think Jean Luc Picard or Reich or something kept looking at the interpreter
Joanne Lockwood: and they said, no, no, look at, look at the king, look at, look at
Joanne Lockwood: the emperor or something. It's like it stuck with me. And that was, I don't
Joanne Lockwood: know, 20, 30, 40 years ago when I was watching that. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah.
Maria Gallucci: And that happens a lot actually. A lot, a lot. So I have to like
Maria Gallucci: judge up and say, make sure you're, you're talking to the client. Like just pretend
Maria Gallucci: like the interpreter's not there. All she's doing is just interpreting.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, I've been in situations where there's been some deaf people and the
Joanne Lockwood: interpreters in, around and because
Joanne Lockwood: you consciously don't focus on the Interpreter. It almost feels rude
Joanne Lockwood: that you almost want to say, I see you as well. But
Joanne Lockwood: there's often such in the background. And the protocol is talk to the person,
Joanne Lockwood: not to the interpreter. But I just feel that the interpreter sometimes feels like a
Joanne Lockwood: spare part in the whole thing. Yeah, I was feeling embarrassed for not
Joanne Lockwood: talking to them. Sometimes I go after and say, just want to say
Joanne Lockwood: I see you as well. Yeah, exactly. Just say hi. And just say hi.
Maria Gallucci: I see. Thank you so much for interpreting.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. And then go, yeah, Otherwise. Otherwise they're almost like a
Joanne Lockwood: utility piece in the background. I don't know if you find that sometimes
Joanne Lockwood: you're just in the background and no one ever acknowledges you.
Maria Gallucci: Yeah, exactly. And that's how I feel. Like a lot of us growing up was
Maria Gallucci: for my parents. And so because they do get excluded because people don't want to
Maria Gallucci: try, like just try to communicate with them or if they think that
Maria Gallucci: they can't communicate, they just won't. They'll just shuck them
Maria Gallucci: aside instead of just trying with them. Did you ever have
Joanne Lockwood: to deal with people asking
Joanne Lockwood: silly questions like, can't they have hearing aids? Or why don't they have cochlear
Joanne Lockwood: implants? Or can they have a surgery or can they be fixed? Do they have
Joanne Lockwood: to have to fend off questions like that often? Oh, yes, a lot when we
Maria Gallucci: were kids, like, why can't they talk normal? Or.
Maria Gallucci: And then like asking about the hearing aids. And then the other one is, does
Maria Gallucci: it feel? Or how was it like growing up with deaf parents? And then I'm
Maria Gallucci: like, well, how was it like growing up with hearing parents? Like, it's our normal,
Maria Gallucci: so it's the same thing. But yeah, now we got. We got stared at a
Maria Gallucci: lot. And I still am, like, self conscious even now, like getting
Maria Gallucci: stared at. And so I think that. And sign language is
Maria Gallucci: beautiful too. Like, if you just. I mean, to be able to speak with your
Maria Gallucci: hands is, I think, absolutely amazing. And to be able
Maria Gallucci: to be able to do stuff in words. And I think a lot of people
Maria Gallucci: maybe take that not for granted, but like, not really
Maria Gallucci: knowing that or what it is and always look at it as something
Maria Gallucci: different, but it's not. It's. We're just communicating just in a different language.
Joanne Lockwood: Well, you. One of your superpowers, I guess, is you can communicate across a room
Joanne Lockwood: in silence, can't you? Yes. You can have a conversation
Joanne Lockwood: 20ft apart. Yeah. So if. Yeah, exactly.
Maria Gallucci: If my sisters or my brothers are like, down, like the room, I can
Maria Gallucci: sign if I needed them to go Grab me something. Or if we're like a
Maria Gallucci: long line at the restaurant, I can tell them can you get me a drink?
Maria Gallucci: And we can communicate way across the room. Do either of your parents
Joanne Lockwood: actually verbalise at all? Or they could or they, they're non verbal or they,
Joanne Lockwood: they try and speak. So my dad was nonverbal, he barely ever
Maria Gallucci: spoke. I probably heard him say maybe two things his entire life but my
Maria Gallucci: mom did speak. So she and I, and I don't know if it's because
Maria Gallucci: she was born deaf that made, I mean born, not deaf,
Maria Gallucci: born hearing that made the difference. I've
Maria Gallucci: always wondered that. But yeah, my mom did speak so we would know if we
Maria Gallucci: were in. Trouble I guess if she had as you said, I think you said
Joanne Lockwood: nine months or so before she lost her hearing. So she would have heard
Joanne Lockwood: her father, her mother, her, her environment as words.
Joanne Lockwood: So she would have learned some words, I guess. Yeah, yeah, she would
Maria Gallucci: learn some. But they, they. Well my mom didn't like, she would like
Maria Gallucci: my name's Maria but she would say Biwika as my name. And so
Maria Gallucci: they don't know the, or my mom didn't know like the, what words
Maria Gallucci: sounded like. So it'd be like yes, their words.
Maria Gallucci: But we understood it and I, I can even understand
Maria Gallucci: accents, even heavy accents. And I think it's because I grew up
Maria Gallucci: with that because you're, you have to listen and, and try to figure out what,
Maria Gallucci: what they're, they're saying. So for me it's very easy to have different accents and
Maria Gallucci: things like that. I can understand it. So it must have been a real challenge
Joanne Lockwood: and I, I don't want to sound like I'm being patronising here but it must
Joanne Lockwood: be a challenge for your parents to learn to get on
Joanne Lockwood: In a world where hearing is taken for for granted. Hearing
Joanne Lockwood: also enables you speech. You learned how to read, read
Joanne Lockwood: and write by through audible language as
Joanne Lockwood: well. How did your parents learn to read and write? I mean it
Joanne Lockwood: must be a lot harder. Maybe reading might be easier but they obviously hear different
Joanne Lockwood: words in their head as they read. They must recognise the word but they don't
Joanne Lockwood: know. They have a different way of processing that when we read a book we
Joanne Lockwood: almost say it to ourselves, say the words out loud in our head sometimes.
Maria Gallucci: I asked, it's funny that you said that because I asked my mom one time
Maria Gallucci: I had to do a, a high school like thesis and
Maria Gallucci: when I was graduating and it was about dreams and I had
Maria Gallucci: asked my mom and dad if they can hear in their, in their Dreams. And
Maria Gallucci: they said yes. And so I'm like, oh, that's like. And I thought that was
Maria Gallucci: so interesting. And then. And then supposedly blind
Maria Gallucci: people can actually see in their dreams as well. So they did go to a
Maria Gallucci: deaf boarding school growing up. So then I think it's just teaching them
Maria Gallucci: how to read and write because they. But. And then also when you
Maria Gallucci: lose your hearing, you all your other senses heighten up too,
Maria Gallucci: so you like, you watch better. You. And the
Joanne Lockwood: gesticulations. And the Italian. And the Italian,
Joanne Lockwood: yeah. So
Joanne Lockwood: what's the biggest challenge in the world today for them? I mean, we've talked about
Joanne Lockwood: a few things around acceptance, but I'd like
Joanne Lockwood: to think the world is getting a better place than it was 10, 20, 30
Joanne Lockwood: years ago. Yeah, it's so advanced now. Like before we didn't have
Maria Gallucci: like the. We have the video relay services now where you can
Maria Gallucci: see somebody on the video and it's an interpreter on the other line, which
Maria Gallucci: we didn't have that back then. We had. It's called a tty.
Maria Gallucci: So you just. It was like a little machine and you typed and then it
Maria Gallucci: would go to the other machine on the other end. And. But now there's. There's
Maria Gallucci: a lot of apps that you can do now that will
Maria Gallucci: interpret. Like you could just show. Show it to them and then
Maria Gallucci: texting. So I think that it's just awareness now and
Maria Gallucci: letting people know that they're just like
Maria Gallucci: us. Like in the deaf and hard of hearing community is just like
Maria Gallucci: the, the hearing world. They. They just communicate in a different language. So you used
Joanne Lockwood: to use a phrase there. Deaf and hard of hearing. What's the
Joanne Lockwood: difference for those who are listening? When is someone deaf? When is someone hard of
Joanne Lockwood: hearing? What's the difference? So when you're
Maria Gallucci: deaf, you're like 100% deaf, so you can't really hear.
Maria Gallucci: And then hard of hearing is when you've just lost
Maria Gallucci: some or most of your hearing. So the deaf culture is
Maria Gallucci: usually always deaf and hard of hearing because they all go in one. And
Joanne Lockwood: so profoundly deaf means completely deaf, doesn't it? Yes.
Joanne Lockwood: At the. Hard of hearing is a level of deafness. It's not
Joanne Lockwood: complete, but it's enough more than.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, it puts you into a different bracket. And then you've got. Hearing impaired or
Joanne Lockwood: hard of hearing is a different category. Is it?
Maria Gallucci: Yeah. So they're hearing impaired and deaf and hard of hearing. They all.
Maria Gallucci: It just shows. Or the difference I would say would be
Maria Gallucci: the percentage of what your deaf or. Because my
Maria Gallucci: dad was 100% deaf in both ears. And then my mom
Maria Gallucci: was like. I think she was like 95 in one and 90 in the other.
Maria Gallucci: So she was profoundly deaf. And so I think it just depends on
Maria Gallucci: the percentage. But the deaf and hard of
Maria Gallucci: hearing community is all lumped into the deaf culture.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I've heard in the UK that someone who is profoundly deaf
Joanne Lockwood: or completely, completely deaf uses a capital D
Joanne Lockwood: for their deafness, whereas people who are
Joanne Lockwood: not profound or completely deaf use a
Joanne Lockwood: lowercase D. Is that similar to the culture in America?
Maria Gallucci: No, out here we do. So the deaf and hard of hearing. So the
Maria Gallucci: D is capitalised and then the H is capitalised, and the
Maria Gallucci: other H for deaf and hard of hearing. That's if you're
Maria Gallucci: speaking about them, like the deaf and hard of hearing community, those would be
Maria Gallucci: capitalised, capitalised. But then if you. Yeah, and then if you do just
Maria Gallucci: the deaf culture, like, that would be in lower clique. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: So it's a bit like capital B for black, for someone's identity.
Joanne Lockwood: It's reinforcing that. There's so many different nuances, isn't there,
Joanne Lockwood: that an outsider of the community,
Joanne Lockwood: if they're not aware of the culture of deafness,
Joanne Lockwood: you're. Well, you are unaware of these little
Joanne Lockwood: nuances that you've got to be careful of. Yeah,
Maria Gallucci: exactly. Because you can say or do something that's
Maria Gallucci: actually very insulting to the community.
Maria Gallucci: And so I think that's where awareness comes in and just
Maria Gallucci: trying to learn about the culture. Or even if you see someone
Maria Gallucci: who's not hearing and they're trying to find something, go ahead and, like, tap
Maria Gallucci: on their shoulder and see if you can help them. Or. Because you could even
Maria Gallucci: put on your phone, like text it in your notes and just show. Show it
Maria Gallucci: to them, like, do you need any help? Yeah. In modern technology, as you say,
Joanne Lockwood: you've got these devices, apps now, where it'll convert
Joanne Lockwood: speech to text and even translate it into a different language as
Joanne Lockwood: well. Yeah. It must have radicalised and changed the whole
Joanne Lockwood: experience. Oh, yeah, it's changed. Between my mom and her
Maria Gallucci: medical appointments when she had cancer, to my dad
Maria Gallucci: 24 years later was completely different.
Maria Gallucci: So, yeah, it's definitely advanced and still moving.
Joanne Lockwood: As a hearing person myself, my go to entertainment is cinema,
Joanne Lockwood: it's tv. Your parents probably didn't grow up in that
Joanne Lockwood: kind of world. So do they. Are they big
Joanne Lockwood: tv, watches, subtitles, or is that something that they just do something
Joanne Lockwood: different instead? Yeah, the closed captioning now. So we
Maria Gallucci: have, I think back, like, when I was little, I don't know if we
Maria Gallucci: had it when I was little, but we did. It did, like, develop into closed
Maria Gallucci: captions. So now that's, like, everywhere. And then now they have, like, before, they didn't
Maria Gallucci: have interpreters at speaking events or the news or
Maria Gallucci: concerts, and now they do, which is amazing because it used to
Maria Gallucci: not have, like, any of that stuff back then. Yeah. I
Joanne Lockwood: see on the tv, America seems better at it than we are in the uk.
Joanne Lockwood: The uk, we are getting better. But things like the super
Joanne Lockwood: bowl, those sort of things, always have a signed interpreter in the corner, don't they?
Joanne Lockwood: And the closed captioning is more rigorously enforced than I think it is
Joanne Lockwood: here. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely. And you can even now,
Maria Gallucci: like on YouTube or even Instagram and things like that, there's a button
Maria Gallucci: that you can press that'll actually translate what they're saying. Yeah.
Maria Gallucci: Into close captioning. Yeah. So it's
Maria Gallucci: definitely more obvious now than it was. Yeah. And in conference and things like that,
Joanne Lockwood: you could scan QR codes and it will link you through to the thing and
Joanne Lockwood: you can get the transcription on your phone so you can be sitting in the
Joanne Lockwood: audience and not. They don't have to put it on all the boards. You can
Joanne Lockwood: just sit in the phone and have your own private caption you. Can just see
Maria Gallucci: on the phone. Yeah, exactly. So it's definitely a lot better now than it
Maria Gallucci: was back then. So you wrote this book called Raised in
Joanne Lockwood: Silence, and that's the storey of your journey for you. I mean,
Joanne Lockwood: we talked a bit. A lot about your parents now. So let's talk a bit
Joanne Lockwood: about you and your experience growing up and
Joanne Lockwood: what prompted you to write the book. I think
Maria Gallucci: when I was building. Well, I've always wanted to make people feel
Maria Gallucci: included and not isolated, and I feel like I wanted to
Maria Gallucci: write about it to make people just aware of, like, the community.
Maria Gallucci: There's funny storeys in there, there's tips in there for. On
Maria Gallucci: what. What to do and what not not to do. And then I feel like
Maria Gallucci: there was a moment in my life when I realised I was building a. A
Maria Gallucci: successful career and watching people I cared about get, like, left out
Maria Gallucci: in the process. So I was doing very well in industry
Maria Gallucci: standards and everything, but I wasn't. I didn't feel like I was serving the community.
Maria Gallucci: And it's a very underserved community community. So I think that's what shaped me.
Maria Gallucci: I think it. It made me seeing that at the end, that my client,
Maria Gallucci: like, before feeling invisible before, like, the asl, and then just seeing
Maria Gallucci: Them feel very included and happy,
Maria Gallucci: you know, buying their first home and because that's a big life
Maria Gallucci: investment and so not being able to understand what they're signing
Maria Gallucci: or what. What they're. They're doing. I think. I think that. That that's why I.
Maria Gallucci: I wrote the book is just for awareness and just make people feel included
Maria Gallucci: in all, like, all. Not just the deaf and hard of
Maria Gallucci: hearing community. So which other communities do you work with?
Joanne Lockwood: So, accessibility. So someone who has a disability or
Joanne Lockwood: someone who's blind or so you're working with to make
Joanne Lockwood: the whole buying process accessible for all. For all. Yeah. And
Maria Gallucci: then I work with the LGBTQ community. My son is gay, and so when he
Maria Gallucci: came out, that was just very easy for us because we were
Maria Gallucci: very inclusive and that's how we were raised. So that. That was the
Maria Gallucci: easiest. So I. And I see, like, my son struggles
Maria Gallucci: sometimes with being, like, excluded out of that thing. So for me, I think it's
Maria Gallucci: all about communication and about empathy and just
Maria Gallucci: being in, like, inclusiveness for me, and that's what, like,
Maria Gallucci: drives me. So where you live now is. It's
Joanne Lockwood: Denver, Colorado. Is that a. That seems
Joanne Lockwood: to me like it's a red state. Is that. Is that red state? We're blue.
Joanne Lockwood: You're blue? Ah, yeah. In Ireland. Yeah. So we're.
Joanne Lockwood: Yes. Yeah. So he's very lucky to be
Maria Gallucci: in Colorado because it's a very, very
Maria Gallucci: LGBTQ friendly state. It's interesting. I'm actually doing
Joanne Lockwood: a talk to a Rotary Club of Texas tonight.
Joanne Lockwood: I was a bit concerned when I first got the call to do the talk,
Joanne Lockwood: and I thought, oh, Texas, are they really gonna be up for me? You know,
Joanne Lockwood: you never think. But I had a really great chat with this Rotarian, and
Joanne Lockwood: it's a really interesting conversation. And it's so easy to judge people
Joanne Lockwood: and assume that somebody's gonna be anti you or against you or whatever it is.
Joanne Lockwood: I think the media sometimes create this impression that it's not true. Yeah, I
Maria Gallucci: agree. And that's what I mean. I just saw my parents get judged all the
Maria Gallucci: time, and us, too, as that, like the kids, and even with my son and
Maria Gallucci: everything. And I just think that it's so easy to be. It's. I think it's
Maria Gallucci: easy. It's so easy to. To have people, I think hate. And I. I just
Maria Gallucci: want people just to love. I think love is love, no matter who you are.
Maria Gallucci: And I think that that's how. I think that if we all just come together
Maria Gallucci: and just know that all of us are the Same. And we're just
Maria Gallucci: living our lives through the process and all we want is to
Maria Gallucci: feel it accepted. Amen. Amen to that. Yeah,
Joanne Lockwood: completely. So going back to
Joanne Lockwood: supporting and championing, if you like,
Joanne Lockwood: people who are deaf, hard of hearing, hearing impaired,
Joanne Lockwood: what are the sort of basic tips that we can give to our
Joanne Lockwood: listener out there who wants to find out more, who wants to
Joanne Lockwood: maybe learn more about people who are deaf?
Joanne Lockwood: Where's a good starting point? What's the key things that we should be
Joanne Lockwood: leaving them with? I think just trying and
Maria Gallucci: then knowing. There's a lot of places where you can learn the basic science,
Maria Gallucci: like thank you or you're welcome, and it makes them feel so good. And I've
Maria Gallucci: seen this before where I'm at, like a restaurant or whatever and the
Maria Gallucci: waiter says thank you, like, in sign language. And that means a lot
Maria Gallucci: to them. So just like the basic signs. Yeah. Yep. That's thank you. Yep. Yeah.
Maria Gallucci: Just the basic. The basic signs, I think makes such a big difference. Just for
Maria Gallucci: them. Just to feel like somebody is trying with them and someone is,
Maria Gallucci: like, making them. Trying to make them feel included. I think that's
Maria Gallucci: huge for everyone. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: Is it polite, for example, to tap someone gently
Joanne Lockwood: on the shoulder or the elbow, Just indicate you're trying to have a conversation?
Joanne Lockwood: Is that rude or is that acceptable? I do it all the time.
Maria Gallucci: I think it's. I think it's. I mean, obviously, I think lightly just tapping them
Maria Gallucci: so they know that you're there because otherwise they're not going to know or just
Maria Gallucci: turn or turn and walk in front of them. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: So they see you getting their attention is perfectly valid.
Joanne Lockwood: You know it's not. Yeah, yeah. So either. Either, as you say, manoeuvre
Joanne Lockwood: yourself, or gentle touch on the shoulder or the
Joanne Lockwood: elbow in a polite way to say, I'm here or. Yeah,
Maria Gallucci: exactly. That's what I do. Just manoeuvres just so that they can see or
Maria Gallucci: wave, so they know that you're trying to get their attention.
Joanne Lockwood: Do people forget that
Joanne Lockwood: the people you work with, your father, your mother can't hear? Do they forget
Joanne Lockwood: sometimes and they start having a conversation, they speak too quickly, or they just make
Joanne Lockwood: an assumption that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, a lot of
Maria Gallucci: times. And then I would have to tell them, oh, my mom can't hear or
Maria Gallucci: my dad can't hear. And then. Yeah, because. And then they'll either start
Maria Gallucci: talking, like, louder, which does not help. And then I think that
Maria Gallucci: there's an assumption that all deaf and hard of hearing people can lip read
Maria Gallucci: and not all of them can. I can, because I was taught that. But a
Maria Gallucci: lot of people, I think, assume that they, they could. Yeah, I've seen it. You
Joanne Lockwood: know, it's like, it's when you talk to somebody who has a different first language,
Joanne Lockwood: you shout or you speak as if the other person is
Joanne Lockwood: less intelligent sometimes, don't you. You assume that they're, they can't be understood. So,
Joanne Lockwood: yeah, it's, I've seen people do this and it's, it's. It's very embarrassing to watch.
Maria Gallucci: I know. And I, I've seen people, People do. Do that too, because it's like
Maria Gallucci: they, and I, I agree with you. They think that they're less intel. Intelligent and
Maria Gallucci: they aren't like. They're just like everybody else. And I don't think
Maria Gallucci: anybody's smarter than another one. It's just a different way of learning in a
Maria Gallucci: different skill. Yeah. Different skills, different ways. In fact, if
Joanne Lockwood: anything, they've had to overcome more barriers in a hearing world to
Joanne Lockwood: cope and adapt. Exactly. More cognitive ability in that way.
Maria Gallucci: Yeah. And. Yeah, because what I was saying earlier was like, all of their
Maria Gallucci: senses, like, get heightened, so they're more aware of
Maria Gallucci: things and they're more, I think, like not,
Maria Gallucci: not really not knowledgeable, but like they. All this stuff, like,
Maria Gallucci: takes over. So I think that they assume things like that, but
Maria Gallucci: it's not, it's not the case. What's, what's
Joanne Lockwood: something you wouldn't appreciate? You know, just without knowing somebody who's
Joanne Lockwood: deaf. What's something that, a joy of life that they have that maybe
Joanne Lockwood: we, we hearing people don't have? That
Joanne Lockwood: that's part of their identity, part of their community that we could be. We would
Joanne Lockwood: be surprised about. I would say they
Maria Gallucci: love music usually because they can feel the beat of
Maria Gallucci: like, so, like every. Yeah, yep, exactly. And so every time
Maria Gallucci: I have like my. I call it my, my uptown party, they.
Maria Gallucci: They always, like, dance. They always dance. They like most of them love to. To
Maria Gallucci: dance because they, they can feel the beat. They can. I think they appreciate the,
Maria Gallucci: the music more and the actual, like, music part
Maria Gallucci: because they, they're going off of feeling instead of hearing.
Joanne Lockwood: In our TV series, we call it Strictly Come Dancing. You call it Dancing
Joanne Lockwood: with the Stars. I think in the US we had
Joanne Lockwood: a deaf actress who took part in
Joanne Lockwood: that show. I think it was last year or the year before. She won the
Joanne Lockwood: whole competition in the end. And it was really
Joanne Lockwood: fascinating to watch her dance the
Joanne Lockwood: set knowing she was deaf, yet she was in perfect
Joanne Lockwood: timing and she was able to. But she, she could feel, as you say, she
Joanne Lockwood: could feel the rhythm. And her and her
Joanne Lockwood: partner developed cues, either tapping each other or
Joanne Lockwood: grabbing or squeezing, whatever it may be, to get. To get that
Joanne Lockwood: rhythm. And yeah, you're right. I've been to rock concerts. I've seen
Joanne Lockwood: meatloaf and other people have been down the front. And you can feel your chest
Joanne Lockwood: vibrate and your whole body vibrate with music, can't you? Yeah,
Maria Gallucci: I think. And then I think that we sometimes may take that for granted, that
Maria Gallucci: we can hear the music. But them feeling the music I think gives them like
Maria Gallucci: it's just a different century, I think. And so
Maria Gallucci: I can see that she won that. That's awesome because I mean, she can feel
Maria Gallucci: everything. And that's when you know the beats because you're actually feeling the beats instead
Maria Gallucci: of like hearing it. I love that feeling, the music. That's a real superpower
Joanne Lockwood: that be able to become really at one with that vibe,
Joanne Lockwood: with that feeling. Yeah, it's like going to a
Joanne Lockwood: club raised. Yeah, you really give it. You really
Joanne Lockwood: pumping those vibes. And your whole body is at one with that
Joanne Lockwood: musical experience. Exactly. It's like a meditation
Maria Gallucci: almost, because they're feeling it and it's different. Yeah. Oh,
Joanne Lockwood: yeah. That's really, really give me a glow there. That's fascinating.
Joanne Lockwood: What else have you found in your life
Joanne Lockwood: again as a child growing up that
Joanne Lockwood: was either easier for you or harder for you? Being
Joanne Lockwood: the primary interpreter must have been tricky, but there must have been
Joanne Lockwood: a lot of joy there as well. Yeah, I think
Maria Gallucci: because I'm multi language too, so I speak like two different
Maria Gallucci: languages. And I think it gave me better communication skills because
Maria Gallucci: I know that I need to listen and have them feel seen and
Maria Gallucci: have like, take my time to listen to them, know what they. They want.
Maria Gallucci: So I think that it gave me a better, like, understanding
Maria Gallucci: of people be feeling le left out, which is not what I
Maria Gallucci: ever want to do with anybody. So I've always been more.
Maria Gallucci: I've always had a bigger heart because I've always thought that I don't want
Maria Gallucci: anybody hurting and I don't want anybody feeling left out or made fun of because
Maria Gallucci: I was growing up, growing up as a kid. So I would never want anybody
Maria Gallucci: to feel bad about their own selves. So for me, I think it gave me
Maria Gallucci: more of like a bigger heart, I think.
Joanne Lockwood: Is your son taking it upon himself to
Joanne Lockwood: learn ASL as well? Is it kind of a family duty?
Maria Gallucci: So. Well, it's kind of funny because I had him take
Maria Gallucci: ASL in high school. As one of his languages, thinking that I would
Maria Gallucci: help him and he can ace the tests and all that stuff. So I helped
Maria Gallucci: him and he actually, he. He got straight A's throughout school and he got.
Maria Gallucci: Flunked that test. He got one F. He was so mad at me because I
Maria Gallucci: was signing the way I learned and I'm a coda, so I'm fluent
Maria Gallucci: in sign language. But I didn't even realise that when you're actually taught and
Maria Gallucci: the years later too, everything was so different. Being
Maria Gallucci: taught, like sign language, you're going through the. Like proper sign language.
Maria Gallucci: Going through that. The classes was completely different, different than how I was
Maria Gallucci: raised. And so he was like, thanks, Mom. So there's. The way you learn it
Joanne Lockwood: today is not the way that the deaf community, if you
Joanne Lockwood: like have grown up with it, it's more conversational, more
Joanne Lockwood: chatty, whereas when you're learning it, it's more structured. Is it? Yes.
Maria Gallucci: Yeah. Different, like. And there's different signs for different words. Because, like, favourite.
Maria Gallucci: I was like, this is favourite. And I was taught favourite. And
Maria Gallucci: so. And like birthday was birthday, but now it's like birthday. So there's
Maria Gallucci: different signs for different things. It's kind of like sling.
Maria Gallucci: And so the way we were taught was just growing up, like, it wasn't
Maria Gallucci: proper, like asl. So it was completely different when I was doing it
Maria Gallucci: with. With him than it was when I learned. So it's. So it's become more
Joanne Lockwood: formalised over the generations and it's. It's
Joanne Lockwood: become a standard throughout the country where, as you said before, there was more
Joanne Lockwood: dialects and local regional variations. It's now
Joanne Lockwood: trying to. Got a core structure. Yeah, exactly. It's like. And there's different types of
Maria Gallucci: sign too, like asl, which. What I do. And
Maria Gallucci: there's like. I think there's eel or E or C S,
Maria Gallucci: E too. So there's different types of sign,
Maria Gallucci: like slang words. And so there. There's different types of. Yeah,
Maria Gallucci: yeah, like dialect and things like that. There's actually different types of that
Maria Gallucci: within sign language. So it's a bit like driving
Joanne Lockwood: test. You have the. You part. You learn to drive and pass your test with
Joanne Lockwood: the instructor. And then when you pass your test, you drive completely differently.
Maria Gallucci: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. You bypassed
Maria Gallucci: everything you learned. Yeah. You almost stop at the stop sign.
Maria Gallucci: Yeah, exactly, yeah. And you turn right sometimes, even when
Joanne Lockwood: you're not supposed to on the red. It's. Yeah,
Joanne Lockwood: you get in the habit. And you Never drive at 55 miles an hour. Do
Joanne Lockwood: you always. You always go at The. Yeah, never. No. Unless there's
Joanne Lockwood: a. Unless there's someone with a speed gun down the road pointing it at you.
Maria Gallucci: Yeah, exactly. I never. I never thought. I
Joanne Lockwood: never thought of it that way. As you said, you didn't think of it either.
Joanne Lockwood: You just assumed that he. Yeah, I just assumed. Yeah.
Maria Gallucci: And then I. And I thought I did so well. Like, I literally thought he
Maria Gallucci: was gonna come home and have an A. And he.
Joanne Lockwood: But you can sign fluently to your parents. I guess he cannot
Maria Gallucci: now. Jordan. Jordan was learning. My oldest was learning
Maria Gallucci: sign language. And then my mom passed away when Jordan was
Maria Gallucci: nine and so she forgot a lot of the sign. And
Maria Gallucci: then with him, I never really taught him how to sign, and
Maria Gallucci: I should have, but we're teaching the grandbaby how to sign, so we'll see.
Maria Gallucci: She'll learn. So you'll pass it on to the next generation. Yeah,
Maria Gallucci: exactly. But it's kind of so cute to see, like,
Maria Gallucci: because she's only a year and a half old, but it's so cute to see
Maria Gallucci: baby sign. And it's. It's easier for them, too, to learn the signs than it
Maria Gallucci: is to like, to use her voice at that age,
Maria Gallucci: too. So she was signing, like, milk and more and all that stuff before
Maria Gallucci: she was even talking. I'm thinking of. Now I'm thinking about that. That
Joanne Lockwood: movie, was it Meet the Fockers, where they're signing for
Joanne Lockwood: milk and all those things. Yeah, yeah,
Joanne Lockwood: yeah. It's creating these signs for things. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: Poop and milk and. Yeah, that's funny. But, yeah, no, it's a lot
Maria Gallucci: easier to teach babies to sign. It's a lot. I
Maria Gallucci: don't know if I would. I'm so glad that I'm a coda and learned that
Maria Gallucci: ASL was my first language, but I couldn't even imagine being
Maria Gallucci: an adult or older learning how to sign. And,
Maria Gallucci: like, it's because, for me, it's my normal. Because I was raised
Maria Gallucci: like that. But I know a lot. A lot of people who went and take
Maria Gallucci: and took classes and they're like, ASL is, like, really hard to learn. And then
Maria Gallucci: seeing him go. Go through. Through that, I was like, oh, that actually
Maria Gallucci: is completely different. That'd be hard. I guess it's like any language, if you're
Joanne Lockwood: with people who are using that language all the time, you pick
Joanne Lockwood: up one word here and one word there, and it becomes. You learn to structure
Joanne Lockwood: your sentences as you do it, whereas if you're trying to learn it as a
Joanne Lockwood: textbook without the context, it's always harder, isn't it?
Maria Gallucci: Yeah, yeah, it is. And I have a lot of good friends who are deaf
Maria Gallucci: and hard of hearing and in that world. And I feel it always is
Maria Gallucci: more comfortable for me to be in an environment with the deaf culture because
Maria Gallucci: that's what I was raised in. And I always feel more comfortable in that environment.
Maria Gallucci: And I've always stuttered as a kid so I had to go to count or
Maria Gallucci: like speech therapy and all that stuff for stuttering. But I don't stutter when I
Maria Gallucci: sign, like at all. It's just when I speak. So it's kind of
Maria Gallucci: ironic. Yeah. My own experience of losing hearing is.
Joanne Lockwood: Well, for myself, about 10, 15
Joanne Lockwood: years or thereabouts. I had a viral
Joanne Lockwood: infection in my inner ear and all of a sudden I woke up
Joanne Lockwood: one day, I just. I couldn't hear much. I could hear a
Joanne Lockwood: little bit, but I'd. It was like a real cloudy, muffled, sort
Joanne Lockwood: of really strange sort of echoey noise in my head and
Joanne Lockwood: everything was like I was underwater all the time. And
Joanne Lockwood: I went to the doctor and the doctor said, it's a virus,
Joanne Lockwood: one day it will clear up maybe. And I was like,
Joanne Lockwood: how long? He went, dunno, 612 weeks
Joanne Lockwood: maybe. See, just. So it was over
Joanne Lockwood: Christmas one year and I remember our children came
Joanne Lockwood: around and we were watching TV and was. I had to have the subtitles on.
Joanne Lockwood: I did the telly loud and they were talking to me and I go, I
Joanne Lockwood: can't hear you. And it, it was a really, a real wake up call to
Joanne Lockwood: what it's like to not hear you. Just, you're in a little bubble. The
Joanne Lockwood: world seems very isolated. And then one day I woke up and it, it
Joanne Lockwood: was back, it was like, whoa. As fast as it went, it
Joanne Lockwood: reappeared and it was a really strange feeling, but it gave me an appreciation.
Joanne Lockwood: And my father who passed away this year, he
Joanne Lockwood: was pretty deaf, you know, he could wear hearing
Joanne Lockwood: aids but he was very hard, very hard of
Joanne Lockwood: hearing. He worked on ships in the navy
Joanne Lockwood: and he used to work on the guns. We think
Joanne Lockwood: that the constant firing the guns damages hearing. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: And my father in law, he's also
Joanne Lockwood: pretty deaf and has hearing aids. And even with a hearing aid,
Joanne Lockwood: it's hard sometimes to communicate with him. So I now live
Joanne Lockwood: in a world with two elderly parents who are pretty deaf. My
Joanne Lockwood: mum has hearing aids, she's pretty good at hearing, but
Joanne Lockwood: she's still got some impairment. And I've got some friends now
Joanne Lockwood: I'm in my 60s, I've got friends who are about my age and we go
Joanne Lockwood: for a couple of drinks in the evening and they say, oh, could you sit
Joanne Lockwood: on my left hand side? Because I can only hear in that ear, I can't
Joanne Lockwood: hear in the other ear. And you start becoming appreciative. And
Joanne Lockwood: I think I read a stat once that one in six of us will
Joanne Lockwood: lose our hearing to an extent where I think when you lose 80%
Joanne Lockwood: or something, we become deaf by classification. So one in
Joanne Lockwood: six of us will happen to by our mid-50s, early 60s. You think,
Joanne Lockwood: wow, that's a lot of population. Yeah, it's a lot. And that's
Maria Gallucci: what I think that we take or we take a lot of things
Maria Gallucci: for granted and hearing I think is one of them for sure. We don't
Maria Gallucci: realise like what we can
Maria Gallucci: have even with like the blind too. Like we take our vision and
Maria Gallucci: our hearing for, for granted. So I think that,
Maria Gallucci: I think just like including people and knowing that
Maria Gallucci: later on in life they may not have their hearing. And so I
Maria Gallucci: think that that's where, it's where you want to make people feel like,
Maria Gallucci: be inclusive and not isolated because it is an
Maria Gallucci: isolating feeling that you can't hear. Like all of a sudden you can hear and
Maria Gallucci: then you can't. Then it, like,
Maria Gallucci: I think it makes them feel like overlooked or misunderstood. So I think
Maria Gallucci: that just findings where they,
Maria Gallucci: they fit in I think is what just making
Maria Gallucci: people in general fit in I think is just really big. And I think that's
Maria Gallucci: why I also wrote the book because it
Maria Gallucci: has other stuff in there, not just for the deaf and hard of hearing community,
Maria Gallucci: it's just all about inclusion and being inclusive and
Maria Gallucci: awareness because we, we are like, like you're saying one one
Maria Gallucci: in six, that's huge. Like we're going to be losing our hair or even if
Maria Gallucci: we lose our sight too, because that goes down. I'm, I'm going to start needing
Maria Gallucci: glasses soon. Yeah. I've been wearing
Joanne Lockwood: varifocals for 30, 40 years, you know, and I
Joanne Lockwood: noticed my, my distance vision, it's almost getting worse
Joanne Lockwood: every year now and I've got, I think, is it glaucoma or
Joanne Lockwood: cataracts or something? I've got something developing that is
Joanne Lockwood: accelerating the degeneration of my left eye slightly. So
Joanne Lockwood: every year it's getting worse. I think eventually I'll probably need
Joanne Lockwood: laser or something on it. But yeah, you
Joanne Lockwood: get to get past 50 and things start breaking
Joanne Lockwood: or shutting down or
Joanne Lockwood: we forget easy. You know, when you're 20 years old, you're
Joanne Lockwood: invincible. And if you've never had a childhood
Joanne Lockwood: problem. Then you get to your 20s, you just think the world is easy,
Joanne Lockwood: and then all of a sudden you break your leg
Joanne Lockwood: skiing, or you do you injure your knee playing football,
Joanne Lockwood: or you do this, whatever your sport you're playing,
Joanne Lockwood: and suddenly you realise, hang on a minute, my body is starting to fall apart
Joanne Lockwood: here and it aches. And when you get to your 50s and it creaks when
Joanne Lockwood: you stand in, get up for a chair and you can't quite walk as far
Joanne Lockwood: as you used to. Yeah. So
Joanne Lockwood: I think we need to be more aware when we're younger
Joanne Lockwood: about creating accessible and inclusive spaces, because
Joanne Lockwood: that'll be us in not too distant future. Yeah, exactly. Very
Joanne Lockwood: realistic. In 10 years time, I'm going to be less able than I am today.
Joanne Lockwood: No matter how much exercise I do and try and keep fit and
Joanne Lockwood: active, something's gonna stop working. Yeah, exactly.
Maria Gallucci: And I think that when we're young, we definitely take our youth for granted, for
Maria Gallucci: sure. Because we don't realise, like, I think that we always see. Cause we saw
Maria Gallucci: our parents grow up and that, well, my mom passed away in her 40s, but
Maria Gallucci: we saw them, like, get older and older and we always thought, like, they were
Maria Gallucci: older, but now we're their age and we're like. But we. But when we're kids.
Maria Gallucci: So I think that even as kids and as youths, we take, like, your
Maria Gallucci: ageing for granted, like, you don't realise, like, I'm gonna be there
Maria Gallucci: someday. Your dad must have taken it pretty hard when your mum passed away, because
Joanne Lockwood: I'm guessing they were soulmates as being
Joanne Lockwood: so tightly linked together, being both deaf. Yeah,
Maria Gallucci: the. They. They were married for 32 years, or they were together for
Maria Gallucci: 32 years before my mom passed away. And then.
Maria Gallucci: And my dad was so. My dad was probably. So my
Maria Gallucci: mom was like, 49, and then my dad was like,
Maria Gallucci: 52. And then he got married six months later
Maria Gallucci: to Dixie. And she was. She was in my life
Maria Gallucci: more obviously than my mom, because my mom had passed away. Because when
Maria Gallucci: we're kids, we don't really remember them. And so Dixie.
Maria Gallucci: I think my dad got a second chance. I always thought that my mom brought
Maria Gallucci: Dixie to my dad because I think my dad would have been.
Maria Gallucci: He wouldn't have known to be alone because he was with my mom since they
Maria Gallucci: were like 18 or 17 years old.
Maria Gallucci: And so I think that. And then my dad ended up passing away just
Maria Gallucci: two years ago of the same cancer, too, which is
Maria Gallucci: unusual. So 24 years. They had melanoma, both of
Maria Gallucci: them. And so 24 years later, my dad got it.
Joanne Lockwood: Oh, that's sad. Yeah. But we took the genetic death as well.
Joanne Lockwood: Is Dixie deaf as well? Yeah, she is. Yeah, she is. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwood: And so he def. Had a second soulmate who was also deaf as well, which
Joanne Lockwood: is. Yeah, I guess that's a beautiful storey as well. Yeah.
Maria Gallucci: Yeah. And I still talk to Dixie to
Maria Gallucci: this day. She's always been really sweet. I think that
Maria Gallucci: my dad would have been, I think, very
Maria Gallucci: lonely and lost, like you were saying, without my mom. So I've always
Maria Gallucci: been thankful that he found Dixie.
Joanne Lockwood: So melanoma, it's a skin cancer, is that right? Yeah,
Maria Gallucci: it's the skin cancer. Yeah. So my mom had it internally
Maria Gallucci: behind her eye from not wearing sunglasses, which I never knew that happens.
Maria Gallucci: Yeah. And then my dad had it on the back of his head. Yeah. I
Joanne Lockwood: think my dad had a. Because my dad lost a lot of his hair and
Joanne Lockwood: he had, we think, a sort of developer on
Joanne Lockwood: top of his head and also a lump on the back of his neck. But
Joanne Lockwood: he was so old. He passed away when he was 92.
Joanne Lockwood: So there was no point. There was no point doing. There was no point doing
Joanne Lockwood: anything about it. It was just. Yeah. That he had some radiography to sort it
Joanne Lockwood: out. But, yeah, my dad was in his early 70s. He was still young.
Maria Gallucci: My old. My mom was obviously younger, but my dad was still in his early
Maria Gallucci: 70s. Wow. He had a good life.
Maria Gallucci: Yeah, exactly. And he had a second chance at life too,
Maria Gallucci: which is good. And he did. Yeah. That's the important thing.
Joanne Lockwood: It's not about forgetting your first
Joanne Lockwood: love. It's about continuing your life as
Joanne Lockwood: well. You know, Alfred said this to my wife, and my wife's just around the
Joanne Lockwood: corner. You know, I wouldn't expect her to mourn for me
Joanne Lockwood: for the rest of her life. She's entitled to find a second love and
Joanne Lockwood: I would wish her well if she wanted to. You know, you don't want
Joanne Lockwood: to hold somebody to. In your legacy for the rest of their lives.
Maria Gallucci: Exactly. No, I agree. It goes through a period of
Joanne Lockwood: reflection and mourning. But life is for living.
Maria Gallucci: Yeah, exactly. And I think everybody goes through stages of life as well.
Joanne Lockwood: So how can people get a hold of you? What's the best way of tracking
Joanne Lockwood: you down these days? So I have an Instagram and it's
Maria Gallucci: Galuchy Homes. And then my website is galluccihomes.com
Maria Gallucci: and then the book is raisedinsilence.com and Gallucci. Is
Joanne Lockwood: G, A, double L, U, double C, I. For those of
Joanne Lockwood: you who are not Italian in your pronunciation and spelling. So
Joanne Lockwood: give me something profound to finish on. I think the main
Maria Gallucci: thing is to just have connection, like try to
Maria Gallucci: communicate and have connection with people and then always just try
Maria Gallucci: with people. Try. Yeah. Because the fear of getting it
Joanne Lockwood: wrong is quite powerful sometimes, isn't it? We. We worry about saying something in
Joanne Lockwood: case we get it wrong or mess up or. Yeah. And
Maria Gallucci: no one's perfect. But as long as you. You try, you. You've made an
Maria Gallucci: effort. Yeah. Because by not trying, you're
Joanne Lockwood: excluding. So giving it a go. Trying.
Joanne Lockwood: Being brave. Maria, thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure and
Joanne Lockwood: I've loved our conversation. As we bring this
Joanne Lockwood: conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest
Joanne Lockwood: gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear
Joanne Lockwood: and heart to the cause of inclusion.
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Joanne Lockwood: is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with
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