WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:00.560 Foreign. 2 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.320 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.200 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 4 00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:18.720 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 5 00:00:18.720 --> 00:00:22.640 inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. 6 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:27.040 Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world without? Remember, everyone 7 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:30.760 not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. 8 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:35.200 Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge 9 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.680 the status quo and share storeys that resonate 10 00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:42.480 deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're 11 00:00:42.480 --> 00:00:46.400 sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's 12 00:00:46.400 --> 00:00:50.360 connect, reflect and inspire action together. 13 00:00:51.080 --> 00:00:54.870 Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out 14 00:00:54.870 --> 00:00:58.670 to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 15 00:00:59.070 --> 00:01:02.590 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 16 00:01:03.470 --> 00:01:07.230 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 17 00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:10.830 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 18 00:01:14.590 --> 00:01:18.240 And today is episode 197 with the 19 00:01:18.240 --> 00:01:21.760 title Beyond Sight. And I have the 20 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:24.760 absolute honour and privilege to welcome Hannah Cohen. 21 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:29.400 Hannah is a visually impaired inclusion coach who empowers 22 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:33.080 teams, leaders and individuals to understand and support 23 00:01:33.160 --> 00:01:36.880 hidden disabilities through workshops and one to one 24 00:01:36.880 --> 00:01:40.840 coaching. When I asked Hannah to describe a superpower, she said 25 00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:44.820 that it is turning Live Challenge into practical 26 00:01:45.060 --> 00:01:48.260 inclusion. Hello, Hannah, welcome to the show. 27 00:01:49.380 --> 00:01:53.340 Hi, Jo, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, no, it's absolutely 28 00:01:53.340 --> 00:01:57.300 superb. I can almost hear you. Are you around the 29 00:01:57.300 --> 00:02:00.180 corner? Maybe you're not. Where are you based in the country? 30 00:02:00.980 --> 00:02:04.940 Manchester. Manchester? Well, I'm in Portsmouth, so probably just 31 00:02:04.940 --> 00:02:08.900 a bit out of. Bit out of hearing range. So you don't sound very 32 00:02:08.900 --> 00:02:12.720 Mancunian. The outskirts. Posh bit. Posh 33 00:02:12.720 --> 00:02:16.440 bit. Possibly, Possibly, possibly. You couldn't say. You couldn't. 34 00:02:17.320 --> 00:02:20.280 And I understand we're also joined by 35 00:02:20.920 --> 00:02:24.720 Manny. Yes, Manny the Cavapouson is around 36 00:02:24.720 --> 00:02:28.680 and. About, so we may have an interlude with a bit of yelping and 37 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:32.600 a bit of earlier I heard the collar flicking and the ears flapping on 38 00:02:32.600 --> 00:02:36.520 the mic. So if we are joined by Manny, we'll welcome him most sincerely because 39 00:02:37.510 --> 00:02:41.190 news, everybody. Special news. I bought myself or ourselves a 40 00:02:41.190 --> 00:02:45.190 cavapoo at the weekend, so we're newly dogged up. So our dog is 41 00:02:45.190 --> 00:02:47.990 in the other room with my wife at the moment. So, yeah, we're well into 42 00:02:47.990 --> 00:02:51.430 the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Poodle 43 00:02:51.590 --> 00:02:55.510 crossbreeds. Yeah. And if Manny barks, maybe she'll. 44 00:02:55.510 --> 00:02:59.110 He'll set Amber off. She may. Well, she may well join in. Yeah. In which 45 00:02:59.110 --> 00:03:02.390 case I look forward to her being a key part of future episodes. It'll be 46 00:03:02.390 --> 00:03:06.240 the Joe and Amber show in future over. She'll bring the cuteness, 47 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:10.160 I'll just bring the practicalities. So, Anna, you just. As in the intro 48 00:03:10.160 --> 00:03:14.120 there, we talked about you were visually impaired inclusion coach, and the 49 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:17.720 authenticity in that is you are visually impaired yourself. Do you. Do you want to 50 00:03:17.720 --> 00:03:21.720 just explain who you are, your storey and your 51 00:03:21.720 --> 00:03:25.640 background? Yeah, definitely. Thank you. So I became visually 52 00:03:25.640 --> 00:03:29.080 impaired around four and a half to five years ago. I'm actually a 53 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:32.930 solicitor and a trained solicitor and since my 54 00:03:32.930 --> 00:03:36.930 site has changed, it's been very hard to do my job and I 55 00:03:37.010 --> 00:03:40.330 ended up training to become a coach. I wasn't really sure if it would be 56 00:03:40.330 --> 00:03:43.570 a career or not, but I thought I'd do some training to keep 57 00:03:43.970 --> 00:03:47.930 myself more busy and yeah, I just sort of fell in love with 58 00:03:47.930 --> 00:03:51.850 it. And when I started trying to think how I could sort of niche 59 00:03:51.850 --> 00:03:55.770 into what direction inclusion coaching just felt really perfect and 60 00:03:55.770 --> 00:03:59.750 that I could help people who are. Had similar challenges to me and helped 61 00:03:59.750 --> 00:04:03.590 them navigate their way. Whether it's one to one, people who are struggling 62 00:04:03.990 --> 00:04:07.350 maybe with a new diagnosis or just struggling with, 63 00:04:08.150 --> 00:04:11.910 you know, life, which is tough, or may or. And then going 64 00:04:11.910 --> 00:04:15.750 into teams and companies, helping them work out how to 65 00:04:15.830 --> 00:04:19.510 best work with each other and work with their own, with their clients 66 00:04:19.750 --> 00:04:23.430 and then also leaders, how to work with their employees. So, yeah, it 67 00:04:23.430 --> 00:04:26.820 works with everyone, really. That's incredible. 68 00:04:28.340 --> 00:04:32.340 Even with the prevalence now of computing, 69 00:04:32.340 --> 00:04:35.860 tablets, text to speech, all these kind of tools and AI, 70 00:04:36.340 --> 00:04:40.259 it's still quite difficult. I guess as a solicitor, 71 00:04:40.259 --> 00:04:44.020 there's lots of paper, lots of processes to follow, different 72 00:04:44.020 --> 00:04:48.020 websites, different. Is that part of the challenge you faced? Yeah, 73 00:04:48.020 --> 00:04:51.980 it's. It's really tough. I mean, I've spoken to loads of different solicitors in different 74 00:04:51.980 --> 00:04:55.500 types of law and asked, you know, to try and see how different people do 75 00:04:55.500 --> 00:04:59.200 it. It is possible to do it. A lot of people have support workers 76 00:04:59.440 --> 00:05:03.240 and, you know, the software and my. I work in a very small firm, the 77 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:07.040 software isn't very accessible and, you know, some of the big firms, they have a 78 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:10.320 lot of extra. Well, as well as the money, they've got more 79 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:14.880 staff, more software, different options. Different tools and stuff. 80 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:17.840 Yeah. And I've used access to work. They've been 81 00:05:18.880 --> 00:05:22.600 relatively helpful at times, but it's really tricky. 82 00:05:22.600 --> 00:05:26.020 It's really tricky and it's a different way to work. I've got to listen to 83 00:05:26.020 --> 00:05:29.860 documents all day in my ear. It's not. So, yeah, 84 00:05:29.860 --> 00:05:33.740 it's hard to focus on things like that. You know, you're used to sort of 85 00:05:33.740 --> 00:05:37.580 scanning Documents with your eyes and you take the important 86 00:05:37.660 --> 00:05:41.619 things and now can't do that. And it's a whole new 87 00:05:41.619 --> 00:05:45.580 way of learning. And yeah, it's, I'm not sort of enjoying that. 88 00:05:45.580 --> 00:05:49.220 So I am actually still working part time as a solicitor. But yeah, I'm really 89 00:05:49.220 --> 00:05:53.190 hoping my inclusion work takes off and it's, you know, I'm loving it, really 90 00:05:53.190 --> 00:05:57.030 enjoying it. Yeah. I actually listened to an audio book 91 00:05:57.030 --> 00:05:59.870 in the car yesterday about puppies actually. 92 00:06:02.190 --> 00:06:05.830 So my wife is a book reader. I'm not a book reader. So I bought 93 00:06:05.830 --> 00:06:09.310 my wife the book and I bought myself the audio audible version. 94 00:06:09.870 --> 00:06:12.510 I, I, I knew cause I was picking a puppy up and it was three 95 00:06:12.510 --> 00:06:15.950 hours each way, so I knew I had three hours and the book was four 96 00:06:15.950 --> 00:06:19.560 and a half hours. So I started listening to it. I know exactly what you 97 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:23.560 mean. The bits I would skim through and even 98 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:27.080 the audiobook sort of said, I'm going to give you the 10 points to consider 99 00:06:27.080 --> 00:06:30.560 in a minute. And you had to wait. I couldn't just flick ahead and recap 100 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:33.920 or. So I guess you're faced with. Everything is very 101 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:37.800 sequential now. It's hard to get a random access of the, 102 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:41.000 of the info or data you need. You can't flick in back and forwards. 103 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:46.090 No, definitely. And I do actually listen to a lot of books, but 104 00:06:46.090 --> 00:06:49.850 there are some that are, I think, especially in learning. So personal 105 00:06:49.850 --> 00:06:53.570 development books or educational books, they are meant for, 106 00:06:53.890 --> 00:06:57.090 you know, going into specific chapters and yeah, 107 00:06:57.730 --> 00:07:01.650 it's not easy to do that. So yeah, look, it's 108 00:07:01.650 --> 00:07:05.570 just a new way of learning, but it is, can be a bit tricky. So 109 00:07:05.970 --> 00:07:09.690 you describe yourself as visually impaired. To what 110 00:07:09.690 --> 00:07:13.430 extent has your sight failed? So 111 00:07:13.430 --> 00:07:17.270 I'm actually registered blind, but I feel like if I say that I'm 112 00:07:17.270 --> 00:07:21.070 blind, people don't really understand because I can see. And there is 113 00:07:21.070 --> 00:07:25.030 a real spectrum of blindness. I can see, I can sort 114 00:07:25.030 --> 00:07:28.950 of see on the screen. But you're blurry, so I don't really see 115 00:07:28.950 --> 00:07:32.870 detail. I can't see words. So I use a lot of tech to 116 00:07:32.870 --> 00:07:36.630 read stuff to me on my computer boards, on my phone. And when I'm out 117 00:07:36.630 --> 00:07:40.570 and about, I use my phone to read things. So luckily I can 118 00:07:40.570 --> 00:07:44.010 get out and about sort of. I can see the contrast between the pavement and 119 00:07:44.010 --> 00:07:47.810 the road almost 100% of the time. So, you know, I'm 120 00:07:47.810 --> 00:07:51.770 lucky about that. But blindness really is a spectrum and people 121 00:07:51.770 --> 00:07:55.650 think people who are blind see nothing. But you know, 122 00:07:56.530 --> 00:07:59.890 you never really know, you know, unless you ask. I'm very happy to Be asked, 123 00:07:59.890 --> 00:08:03.010 but everyone's different. There are people who've had 124 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:07.800 their optic nerve fail or parts of their brain fail. Maybe 125 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:11.800 that's. I guess that's when they get almost like the complete blindness, isn't it? 126 00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:15.640 Just. I'm not sure whether they see black or white or nothing 127 00:08:15.640 --> 00:08:19.600 or. Well, my optic nerves have actually failed. Oh, they. 128 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:23.560 Okay, yeah, that's part of my condition and, I mean, I 129 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:27.440 don't know about loads of other conditions. I don't really, you know, know everything, but 130 00:08:27.520 --> 00:08:31.430 I know that my optic nerves. I think they said they're dead, but, 131 00:08:31.590 --> 00:08:34.950 you know, I can see stuff, so I don't really know how it works, to 132 00:08:34.950 --> 00:08:38.830 be honest. So you'd lived a good chunk of your 133 00:08:38.830 --> 00:08:42.510 life, and I don't want to give your age away. So you're aware of the 134 00:08:42.510 --> 00:08:46.150 world around you, you've got context to what you can see. 135 00:08:47.110 --> 00:08:51.110 So if you'd have been born this way or 136 00:08:51.110 --> 00:08:54.710 acquired this at a very early age, you'd have less context or at least you 137 00:08:54.710 --> 00:08:58.640 know, what the sky looks like, the grass looks like. So when you. 138 00:08:58.640 --> 00:09:02.200 Yeah, whatever vision you have left, you can still 139 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:06.200 contextualise it and get. Get some joy from that, from that image, I 140 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:09.880 guess. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I feel so lucky that I still have 141 00:09:09.880 --> 00:09:13.840 enough sight to enjoy, you know, seeing things. I mean, it. 142 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:17.000 Look, it's completely different, but I can still. I love going to the beach and 143 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:20.320 I still love going to the beach and you see it, but it's more the 144 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:24.160 feeling and the noise, you know, all the senses, really. 145 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:28.210 Yeah, I. But I do feel lucky that I 146 00:09:28.210 --> 00:09:32.170 still have enough sight to do a lot of things. Can you recognise 147 00:09:32.170 --> 00:09:35.610 people that you know still? Yes and no. I recognise 148 00:09:35.610 --> 00:09:39.490 mostly the people I see all the time, but then some people, 149 00:09:39.490 --> 00:09:42.730 I think, you know, I think I'm seeing someone and I'm not. And I do 150 00:09:42.890 --> 00:09:46.410 see funny things, you know, I think I'm seeing something. I remember saying to the 151 00:09:46.410 --> 00:09:50.290 kids recently, what's that over there? I think we were stood outside the apple 152 00:09:50.290 --> 00:09:54.130 shop in town, said, what's that? And they said, it's a child. I went, 153 00:09:54.130 --> 00:09:58.120 oh, thought it was a statue. So, you know, you're 154 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:01.640 not really sure sometimes what you're seeing, what surprised you. The most in 155 00:10:01.640 --> 00:10:05.320 society around your condition. So you said to yourself, 156 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:09.240 you don't want to describe yourself as blind, you prefer visually impaired, because 157 00:10:09.800 --> 00:10:13.800 blindness is misunderstood. So by saying visually impaired, you're almost implying 158 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:17.960 that it's not absolute. Do people lack understanding? I 159 00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:21.400 guess I think the thing is. And also why I've 160 00:10:24.180 --> 00:10:27.060 you know, some of my works around hidden disabilities is because 161 00:10:28.260 --> 00:10:31.980 often in some ways, you know, it is 162 00:10:31.980 --> 00:10:35.700 invisible to people. Well, it always is. But in some ways that's really good 163 00:10:35.780 --> 00:10:39.540 because, you know, I can be an inverted commas normal, 164 00:10:39.540 --> 00:10:43.460 which, you know, I suppose some people with their 165 00:10:43.460 --> 00:10:47.180 disabilities aren't able to do that. But in a lot of ways it makes me 166 00:10:47.180 --> 00:10:51.100 invisible in other ways, as in people forget that 167 00:10:51.100 --> 00:10:54.900 I have it and then I feel excluded in lots of situations. But 168 00:10:54.900 --> 00:10:58.180 also, I always have to advocate for myself. You know, if I go into a 169 00:10:58.180 --> 00:11:02.100 shop and I can't find something, I have to ask people constantly. Whereas maybe 170 00:11:02.100 --> 00:11:04.660 if I went in with a stick, people would come up to me and ask 171 00:11:04.660 --> 00:11:08.100 me if they can help me. So, you know, there are pros and cons, I 172 00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:12.020 think, to hidden disabilities, and I think it's probably the same with every kind of 173 00:11:12.020 --> 00:11:15.750 hidden disability. It's almost like you want a T shirt that says, I have a 174 00:11:16.310 --> 00:11:20.030 sight impairment, visual impairment, but I'm kind of okay, 175 00:11:20.030 --> 00:11:23.830 just, just, just be ready to help if I need it. But 176 00:11:23.830 --> 00:11:27.790 don't. That would be perfect. Don't patronise me and mother me. Yeah, you know 177 00:11:27.790 --> 00:11:31.310 what? That is exactly right. Sometimes I just want to paint on my forehead and 178 00:11:31.310 --> 00:11:35.110 sometimes I don't want anyone to, you know, it is really. Yeah, 179 00:11:35.110 --> 00:11:38.390 it's, it's. It is very tricky because. Exactly. I don't want people 180 00:11:38.790 --> 00:11:42.510 to patronise me and, you know, 181 00:11:43.150 --> 00:11:46.830 mother me or whatever. But at the same time, I do need help a lot 182 00:11:46.830 --> 00:11:50.390 of the time. I've got a good friend of mine who, who was born with 183 00:11:50.390 --> 00:11:54.230 cerebral palsy and she has a power wheelchair and she's fearfully 184 00:11:54.230 --> 00:11:58.190 independent. You try and you try and mother her manager or do anything for her 185 00:11:58.270 --> 00:12:01.710 that she hasn't asked for. She'll. She'll bite her like a. 186 00:12:02.510 --> 00:12:06.280 Yeah, like a puppy. But being around her taught me 187 00:12:06.920 --> 00:12:10.800 that when I'm with her, I'll know. She'll ask if 188 00:12:10.800 --> 00:12:14.800 she wants some help and I'll be sitting there and she'll say, 189 00:12:14.800 --> 00:12:18.800 it's my round. And she'll, she'll scoot off the bar and she'll come back with 190 00:12:18.800 --> 00:12:22.520 a, With a. One of the bar staff in attendance carrying the drinks. 191 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:26.600 So she doesn't expect us to be the bar staff. And, yeah, sometimes she'll 192 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:30.560 sit there and say, my shoe's fallen off. Can you put my shoe back 193 00:12:30.560 --> 00:12:34.520 on, please? Or when you're sitting there having a meal, she'll. 194 00:12:34.520 --> 00:12:37.960 She'll ask the waiter, can you please cut my food for me? Rather than ask 195 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:41.200 her friends to cut the food. So she's very good at advocating, but 196 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:45.480 I also know that she'll just look at me and go, can you? I go, 197 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:49.200 of course, but I would never offer that. Yeah, 198 00:12:49.520 --> 00:12:53.320 so it's knowing when to. When to help, when not to help. I guess that's 199 00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:56.520 the same with you. You expect new people around you to be mind readers and 200 00:12:56.520 --> 00:13:00.410 be emotionally intelligent enough to figure out this is a Hannah moment, 201 00:13:00.410 --> 00:13:04.330 we need to be there. Yeah, 100%. I mean, my friends 202 00:13:04.330 --> 00:13:08.210 always say they know I'm so independent and I hate having to ask for things, 203 00:13:08.210 --> 00:13:12.010 but I do have to sometimes. But, yeah, some of the time I wish they 204 00:13:12.010 --> 00:13:15.169 were all psychic and just knew that I want to go to the shops and 205 00:13:15.169 --> 00:13:18.090 why aren't they going to collect me now? But other times I don't want anyone 206 00:13:18.090 --> 00:13:22.090 to ask me and I will ask if I need it. So, yeah, there's 207 00:13:22.090 --> 00:13:25.730 a balance. But I am. Yeah, I'm very independent and I think that's one of 208 00:13:25.730 --> 00:13:29.410 the hardest things. You do feel like in some ways you've lost your independence. Especially 209 00:13:29.410 --> 00:13:33.370 for me stopping driving because, you know, especially having children, I 210 00:13:33.370 --> 00:13:36.810 can't drive them around. I have to ask other people, you know, it is difficult. 211 00:13:37.530 --> 00:13:40.570 Did it come on suddenly? Was it. Or was it over a period of time? 212 00:13:41.610 --> 00:13:45.490 No, one eye, sort of. So 213 00:13:45.490 --> 00:13:49.410 it's like the central vision loss. So one eye went. But I 214 00:13:49.410 --> 00:13:53.170 didn't really realise. It's strange when you don't have one eye, you still see 215 00:13:53.170 --> 00:13:57.050 fine. So one eye went. And then I sort of mentioned it to 216 00:13:57.050 --> 00:14:00.960 someone and they said, I think you should go to the optician. Anyway, you know, 217 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:04.280 a few months later, the second one. And over the time I'd been to the 218 00:14:04.280 --> 00:14:07.880 optician, I'd been sent to a ophthalmologist and 219 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:11.600 anyway, long storey short, I got 220 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:15.440 admitted to hospital. They pumped me with steroids and all different things. I 221 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:19.360 had like lumbar puncture, all. All different things. In the end, there was 222 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:23.280 nothing they can do. It's a condition. That is what it is really. It's something 223 00:14:23.280 --> 00:14:27.170 that triggered, which I didn't know was in me already. And 224 00:14:27.170 --> 00:14:31.130 that's it. There's nothing they can do. There's. It's quite rare, but, you 225 00:14:31.130 --> 00:14:35.050 know, over time, who knows what might be able to be done. But currently, no, 226 00:14:35.050 --> 00:14:38.570 nothing. There's no equivalent to the cochlear implant for 227 00:14:38.890 --> 00:14:42.730 optic nerves at the moment, is there? No, they're doing 228 00:14:42.730 --> 00:14:46.530 stem cell. I don't even know what it's called, but, you know, but there's nothing 229 00:14:46.530 --> 00:14:50.450 that's actually worked as of yet. Yeah, I don't know 230 00:14:50.450 --> 00:14:53.770 if there's other conditions that are, you know, like ahead of it and 231 00:14:54.500 --> 00:14:58.180 terms of research, but yeah, who knows what the future holds? 232 00:14:58.260 --> 00:15:02.060 So saying that it manifests itself as such, the central vision's failed. You've still got 233 00:15:02.060 --> 00:15:05.700 some periphery. Yeah, I mean, it's strange because I don't see, 234 00:15:06.260 --> 00:15:10.020 you know, to me it just looks like I've got normal vision but 235 00:15:10.020 --> 00:15:13.460 blurry. But yes, essentially I've got peripheral 236 00:15:13.540 --> 00:15:17.300 vision. So your out of focus peripheral vision is doing the seeing. 237 00:15:17.540 --> 00:15:20.820 So, yeah, I can't sit at the corner of my eye. I know there's something 238 00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:24.350 there, but I can't focus on it. That's kind of what you've got and that's 239 00:15:24.350 --> 00:15:28.350 all you've got. So you're aware of things moving around you. So you've 240 00:15:28.350 --> 00:15:32.190 probably still got that reaction, have you? Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. 241 00:15:32.430 --> 00:15:36.390 It is strange. I mean, I feel like I. Sometimes 242 00:15:36.390 --> 00:15:39.950 I feel like I can see fine, even though I can't, obviously. It's blurry, 243 00:15:40.270 --> 00:15:44.270 you know, in a small space, basically, you know, I can sort of almost 244 00:15:44.270 --> 00:15:48.230 tell what everything is and who everyone is. And as soon as it's slightly further 245 00:15:48.230 --> 00:15:51.210 away, that's when there's more of a struggle. 246 00:15:52.090 --> 00:15:55.450 But, yeah, like if my son's in his room, in a room with his friends, 247 00:15:55.450 --> 00:15:59.050 I can't tell which one's which. But, you know, so, 248 00:15:59.770 --> 00:16:03.530 yeah, you just. Got four or five blobs of humanity. Little. 249 00:16:03.530 --> 00:16:07.410 Little human, basically. They all look similar. I mean, if 250 00:16:07.410 --> 00:16:11.130 one's blonde and one's brown, I couldn't tell. But otherwise they're all. They're all just 251 00:16:11.130 --> 00:16:15.090 teenage boys who smell. Yeah, you're mine. Exactly. I can 252 00:16:15.090 --> 00:16:19.030 imagine that you are. Put them in special coloured T shirts 253 00:16:19.030 --> 00:16:22.790 and colour code them, like jockeys or something, so you could tell. Yeah, that'd be 254 00:16:22.790 --> 00:16:26.190 perfect. How did. 255 00:16:27.390 --> 00:16:31.350 I mean, you say you've got boys and you've got family and how have they 256 00:16:31.350 --> 00:16:35.350 adjusted to you so? Well, actually, I became a 257 00:16:35.350 --> 00:16:39.350 widow seven and a half years ago, so. No, thank you. So it's just me 258 00:16:39.350 --> 00:16:42.670 and my two kids. My teenage son, who is almost 17, 259 00:16:42.910 --> 00:16:46.670 nearly learning to drive, and my daughter, who's 19, who's just gone to university. 260 00:16:46.990 --> 00:16:50.970 So it was a struggle because I was 261 00:16:50.970 --> 00:16:54.650 their sole parent looking after them and then they had to 262 00:16:55.610 --> 00:16:59.490 sort of take on more responsibilities and, you know, I didn't ever 263 00:16:59.490 --> 00:17:02.290 want them to look after me and I didn't need looking after. But it was 264 00:17:02.290 --> 00:17:06.130 a journey and we've been through a lot, but no, we're, you know, they're 265 00:17:06.130 --> 00:17:10.130 amazing and they're more resilient because of it. And like 266 00:17:10.130 --> 00:17:13.370 my daughter at uni, she's not struggled at all in terms of independence. Cause she's 267 00:17:13.370 --> 00:17:17.170 used to being independent and used to doing stuff for herself. So I 268 00:17:17.170 --> 00:17:21.050 suppose there's pros and cons, but yeah, the kids are brilliant and all my 269 00:17:21.050 --> 00:17:25.010 friends and family have been amazing help. So that creates a problem 270 00:17:25.010 --> 00:17:28.450 in the future as well, doesn't it? So you want to ensure your children 271 00:17:28.850 --> 00:17:32.810 have their lives, they're not encumbered by you for want of a better 272 00:17:32.810 --> 00:17:36.690 way, not burdened by you and say if you want to go to uni, you 273 00:17:36.690 --> 00:17:40.290 want to go off to live your life, I fully understand that that 274 00:17:40.530 --> 00:17:43.980 must be a daunting prospect for you. Yeah, well, 275 00:17:44.460 --> 00:17:48.260 it's very strange having my daughter away. And once my son goes to university, which 276 00:17:48.260 --> 00:17:52.180 he says he wants to, I mean, that will be very odd. I am 277 00:17:52.180 --> 00:17:56.020 learn my daughter is very helpful tech wise. My 278 00:17:56.020 --> 00:17:59.180 son's not so techie. So I'm trying to learn to do 279 00:17:59.740 --> 00:18:02.660 more tech things that I would normally just say, oh, can you just help me? 280 00:18:02.660 --> 00:18:05.980 Because it's quicker. But I'm learning to do more on my own because 281 00:18:06.620 --> 00:18:10.550 she's not here. But yeah, I mean 282 00:18:11.110 --> 00:18:14.950 it's. Yeah. The thought of them both not being here is very 283 00:18:14.950 --> 00:18:18.510 strange. I know I could, I know I could. I'll, I'm, you know, I'm okay 284 00:18:18.510 --> 00:18:22.070 without them. But sometimes you sort of rely on people around you just for the 285 00:18:22.070 --> 00:18:24.550 little jobs, just to save time. 286 00:18:25.830 --> 00:18:29.710 Yeah. So you've got things, you've got your Amazon Wishlist 287 00:18:29.710 --> 00:18:33.190 set up, you got your Tesco's online ordering, you can do all that and. 288 00:18:33.840 --> 00:18:37.120 Exactly. And when they deliver, they'll put it in the cupboards for you if you 289 00:18:37.120 --> 00:18:40.640 ask these days, won't they? So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, as long as 290 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:43.520 they bring it in for me. And sometimes I'll say, oh, what's this? You know, 291 00:18:43.520 --> 00:18:47.480 and they'll, they'll say, well, you ordered that, didn't you? But that's when 292 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:51.360 you need the T shirt. Yeah, exactly. I think it's being impaired, not stupid. Please 293 00:18:51.360 --> 00:18:55.320 help. The problem is, is that I don't, you know, if someone is dropping 294 00:18:55.320 --> 00:18:59.200 my shopping off, I don't like to tell them I'm visually impaired. 295 00:18:59.280 --> 00:19:02.290 When, which is, you know, they're coming in my house. I don't know who they 296 00:19:02.290 --> 00:19:06.130 are really. I do feel a bit vulnerable sometimes. So I 297 00:19:06.130 --> 00:19:10.130 Don't, actually. Yeah. I don't know, you know, if 298 00:19:10.130 --> 00:19:14.090 that's necessarily the right thing, but that's how, you know, I feel 299 00:19:14.090 --> 00:19:17.850 safer that way. It's very interesting point, I suppose. Yeah. You're. You're. By being 300 00:19:18.490 --> 00:19:22.490 vulnerable, it makes you. Vulnerable. Exactly. Yeah. 301 00:19:22.490 --> 00:19:25.770 I. You know, I do feel a bit more vulnerable in certain. Certain 302 00:19:25.850 --> 00:19:29.730 situations, which I didn't before. But, you 303 00:19:29.730 --> 00:19:33.330 know, I'm sort of, you know, you get used to it, really. You get 304 00:19:33.330 --> 00:19:37.210 anxious when you're out alone? Sometimes. Yeah. You know, I. 305 00:19:37.450 --> 00:19:41.250 I take the dog out every day on my own and I know, you know, 306 00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:45.090 I know the area, I know where I'm going and. And I can see the 307 00:19:45.090 --> 00:19:49.010 contrast of the payments. But sometimes, you know, if I have to cross a 308 00:19:49.010 --> 00:19:52.810 small road and I can pretty much tell if a car's coming, 309 00:19:53.130 --> 00:19:57.030 but occasionally a car just turns up. I'm like, oh, my God, you 310 00:19:57.030 --> 00:20:00.790 know, and things like that. And I notice when I'm walking, I am more 311 00:20:00.790 --> 00:20:04.230 anxious than I used to be because I do have to take more care and 312 00:20:04.230 --> 00:20:08.230 I have to be, you know, more aware, really. Oh, yeah. But, 313 00:20:08.390 --> 00:20:12.070 you know, I love getting out as well, so it's. 314 00:20:12.630 --> 00:20:16.310 I think I also am very anxious, not intentionally, but when I'm in 315 00:20:16.310 --> 00:20:18.550 shops, because there's just. 316 00:20:19.830 --> 00:20:23.380 It's. It's just a bit of a stressful 317 00:20:23.380 --> 00:20:27.260 situation, being in a place where you don't currently see anything. And 318 00:20:27.260 --> 00:20:30.860 also there's lots of people around. Who are they? Do I know them? Do they 319 00:20:30.860 --> 00:20:34.820 know me? You know, it's. It's strange. I mean, I don't know what. Why 320 00:20:34.820 --> 00:20:38.180 I'm saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway as you're talking. It's a 321 00:20:38.180 --> 00:20:42.180 bit like being in a strange hotel and needing 322 00:20:42.180 --> 00:20:45.460 the loo in the middle of the night and there's no lights on and, you 323 00:20:45.460 --> 00:20:49.380 know, the bathroom's around here somewhere and there's a. You can just about see something, 324 00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:53.380 but you. You don't realise that the doorstop is just there and 325 00:20:53.380 --> 00:20:57.060 you end up kicking it or something, or hopes. You bang your head on something. 326 00:20:57.060 --> 00:21:00.820 You think, what was that? Oh, that was the hair dryer. Yes. 327 00:21:01.140 --> 00:21:04.980 All the time. Actually, recently, I was away for a few days and I 328 00:21:04.980 --> 00:21:07.540 came back and I was in bed and I got up in the middle of 329 00:21:07.540 --> 00:21:10.020 the night to go to the toilet and I just did not. You know, when 330 00:21:10.020 --> 00:21:12.780 you don't know where you are. Yeah. But then, because I couldn't really see, I 331 00:21:12.780 --> 00:21:16.540 was so confused where I was walking. But, you know, I suppose it 332 00:21:16.540 --> 00:21:19.860 happens to everyone in the dark. Most people can't see much anyway. So. 333 00:21:23.060 --> 00:21:27.020 Yeah, is. Is your. Sorry, if this is 334 00:21:27.020 --> 00:21:30.900 invasive. Is your site going to deteriorate more over. Over time or has it 335 00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:34.820 got to the worst? I think. Well, it took a 336 00:21:34.820 --> 00:21:38.500 bit of time, actually, to settle. It did take at least a year and a 337 00:21:38.500 --> 00:21:42.120 half, maybe longer, to feel like and knew where 338 00:21:42.280 --> 00:21:45.240 it was and where I could go and how I felt. It took quite a 339 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.840 while, but I don't think it's gonna deteriorate. But because it's a rare condition, 340 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:53.320 you never really know, but hopefully not. So 341 00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:57.160 you had. I think it's just reading into what you're just saying. It 342 00:21:57.160 --> 00:22:01.040 wasn't overnight. It grew or failed over 343 00:22:01.040 --> 00:22:04.600 the course of time. So you had a chance to adjust in some 344 00:22:04.600 --> 00:22:08.600 respects, sort of. I mean, overnight I couldn't drive, but 345 00:22:08.600 --> 00:22:12.550 it almost went worse. It almost was worse, and then it got better. 346 00:22:12.550 --> 00:22:16.350 I don't know if it. If it was bad or if 347 00:22:16.350 --> 00:22:19.990 I needed to get used to it for it to settle, if that makes sense. 348 00:22:19.990 --> 00:22:22.870 I don't know if it was in my mind because of the stress and the 349 00:22:22.870 --> 00:22:26.870 anxiety, if that made it so much worse because it's 350 00:22:26.870 --> 00:22:30.110 such a massive shock. So, yeah, I don't know really. You know, I was never 351 00:22:30.110 --> 00:22:34.070 really told at the hospital. You know, it's this level and then it's 352 00:22:34.070 --> 00:22:37.990 this level because people do say to me, oh, what number are you? I'm 353 00:22:37.990 --> 00:22:41.800 minus one. Whatever I said, I actually have no idea. And I do wear glasses, 354 00:22:41.800 --> 00:22:45.400 and I wore glasses before. They were exactly the same glasses, and they stopped me 355 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.360 getting eye strain, but they don't make me see different. Okay. It's not 356 00:22:49.360 --> 00:22:53.280 a focusing issue. It's not a lens issue. Is just. No, I think I 357 00:22:53.280 --> 00:22:56.320 had a stigma. I don't know if that makes a difference now. As in, I 358 00:22:56.320 --> 00:22:58.640 don't know if that's still there. I have no idea. I'm not very good with 359 00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:02.440 medical stuff, but all I know is they help with eye 360 00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:05.040 strain. So I just put them on when I'm staring at a screen or 361 00:23:07.310 --> 00:23:11.270 that's the front door. There goes. Maddie's going, man, just let 362 00:23:11.270 --> 00:23:14.750 Hannah answer the front door. We're okay. We're cool with this. We've done it before, 363 00:23:14.750 --> 00:23:18.670 haven't we, listeners? Oh, well, it's a 364 00:23:18.670 --> 00:23:22.590 sign of your resilience that, you know, the doorbell rings and 365 00:23:22.990 --> 00:23:25.990 you still go up and answer it. Yeah, you still. You still got to live 366 00:23:25.990 --> 00:23:29.830 your life, haven't you? You can't just say, exactly, I'm visually 367 00:23:29.830 --> 00:23:33.000 impaired. I Can't. It could do. No, life's gonna happen. 368 00:23:34.120 --> 00:23:38.000 Yeah, exactly. I mean, people say to me all the time, you're so resilient, 369 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:41.920 but I just. I mean, I just feel like you either live your life 370 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:45.440 or you don't. And I live my life. Yeah. I don't feel resilient. I feel 371 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:49.000 like I've just got to do and live. 372 00:23:49.320 --> 00:23:53.240 Do you. Do you get the. Or you're brave all the 373 00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:57.000 time? Yeah. You get brave? Yeah, it's good. Do you get that as well? Yeah, 374 00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:00.040 I get brave sometimes. Yeah. Not so much these days, but yeah. Yeah. 375 00:24:00.770 --> 00:24:04.290 Brave. Or. My wife Marie gets brave as well because we've been married 38 years, 376 00:24:05.330 --> 00:24:09.090 so she's had to cope with a fair bit of flack for me. 377 00:24:09.570 --> 00:24:13.450 So, yeah, it's. I always think about it when you're not 378 00:24:13.450 --> 00:24:17.250 actually brave at the time, so you really look over your shoulder and go, 379 00:24:17.330 --> 00:24:20.890 oh, wow, maybe I was a bit. But when you're dealing with it, you're just 380 00:24:20.890 --> 00:24:24.770 dealing with it, aren't you, in the moment. Yeah, exactly. I mean, 381 00:24:24.850 --> 00:24:28.450 I didn't make a decision, oh, I'm going to be really brave and resilient and 382 00:24:28.770 --> 00:24:31.970 get out of bed today or anything. It's like, well, I either get out of 383 00:24:31.970 --> 00:24:34.450 bed or I. Well, you don't. Yeah, 384 00:24:35.810 --> 00:24:39.490 yeah, exactly. You don't get breakfast if you stay in bed. 385 00:24:39.490 --> 00:24:43.010 Unless your children are feeling like it. Man is going to go angry. 386 00:24:43.970 --> 00:24:47.570 Yes, exactly. And the delivery driver will be at the door, knocking on, saying, 387 00:24:48.130 --> 00:24:51.770 take your parcel. You have just got to get on with things, haven't you? And 388 00:24:51.770 --> 00:24:55.320 you can't. Can't hide from the world as much. Sometimes you want to have a 389 00:24:55.320 --> 00:24:59.120 duvet day, I suppose. Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, 390 00:24:59.120 --> 00:25:02.960 look, life's hard and lots of people have struggles of all 391 00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:06.240 different types, but you just have to try and get on with it and live 392 00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:10.200 your best life, you know, I'm not saying that my life every day is 393 00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:13.960 a happy, perfect day, but overall it's good. 394 00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:18.240 So you work with teams, leaders in businesses, individuals as well. 395 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:22.190 What if they often come to you to talk about what's. What's. What's the thing 396 00:25:22.190 --> 00:25:25.830 they cover? So the teams, you know, and the leaders. Well, 397 00:25:25.990 --> 00:25:29.350 the teams are more, you know, the company gets me in. 398 00:25:30.390 --> 00:25:34.390 So then, you know, it's not. It's sort of less 399 00:25:34.390 --> 00:25:38.270 of a choice for them. But it's amazing speaking to them and working with them 400 00:25:38.270 --> 00:25:41.670 in their workshops because some of them are just so unaware about 401 00:25:42.150 --> 00:25:45.870