WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:00.560 Foreign. 2 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.320 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.200 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 4 00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:18.720 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 5 00:00:18.720 --> 00:00:22.640 inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. 6 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:27.040 Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone 7 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:30.760 not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. 8 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:35.200 Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge 9 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.760 the status quo and share storeys that resonate 10 00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:42.480 deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're 11 00:00:42.480 --> 00:00:46.400 sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's 12 00:00:46.400 --> 00:00:50.360 connect, reflect and inspire action together. 13 00:00:51.080 --> 00:00:54.870 Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out 14 00:00:54.870 --> 00:00:58.670 to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 15 00:00:59.070 --> 00:01:02.590 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 16 00:01:03.470 --> 00:01:07.230 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 17 00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:10.830 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 18 00:01:15.550 --> 00:01:19.180 And today is episode 200 with the 19 00:01:19.180 --> 00:01:23.180 title what's With Difference? And I have the absolute honour 20 00:01:23.180 --> 00:01:26.580 and privilege to welcome Dr. Khutso Madubanya. 21 00:01:27.060 --> 00:01:30.820 Khutso is a South African born change catalyst and inspirational 22 00:01:30.820 --> 00:01:34.739 speaker who helps people and organisations embrace 23 00:01:34.739 --> 00:01:38.420 difference and transformation with courage and authenticity. 24 00:01:39.380 --> 00:01:43.340 When I asked Khutso to describe her superpower, she said that it is helping and 25 00:01:43.340 --> 00:01:47.120 empowering people through change and cultural understanding. 26 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:51.760 Hello, Khutso. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having 27 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:55.120 me, Jo. I'm so honoured to be Guest number 200. 28 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:59.960 Number 200. I know, I can't believe it. Yeah, talk about 29 00:01:59.960 --> 00:02:03.200 synchronicity. I feel honoured, truly honoured. 30 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:07.240 Who'd have thought when I started this five and a half years ago that I'd 31 00:02:07.240 --> 00:02:11.209 still be going today and maybe in another five and a half to and a 32 00:02:11.209 --> 00:02:14.809 half years I might be up to episode 250 or even 500. So, yeah, it's 33 00:02:14.809 --> 00:02:18.329 a real honour, real honour. Thank you. It's a real going. 34 00:02:18.409 --> 00:02:22.089 I'm really grateful that you're doing this. I've said to you a minute ago. 35 00:02:23.689 --> 00:02:27.209 So I said in the intro that you're South African born. You dropped me a 36 00:02:27.209 --> 00:02:31.049 hint earlier that you said good morning and I'm in the afternoon so I can 37 00:02:31.049 --> 00:02:34.009 tell the time difference that you're not in South Africa. So whereabouts in the world 38 00:02:34.009 --> 00:02:37.980 are you right now? Oh, I live in Michigan in the United 39 00:02:38.060 --> 00:02:41.180 States, Michelle. Oh, wow. Yeah. 40 00:02:41.980 --> 00:02:45.740 South African. Anywhere near the lake? Is it near the lake or. Oh, 41 00:02:45.740 --> 00:02:49.380 yes. Oh yeah, we've got. We've got quite a few lakes here, I think. 10,000 42 00:02:49.380 --> 00:02:53.340 lakes. We called. We do have 10,000 lakes. 43 00:02:54.620 --> 00:02:58.500 So lake Michigan is the big one, isn't it? Yes. Lake Michigan is the 44 00:02:58.500 --> 00:03:02.460 Big one. Beautiful. Beautiful part of world. 45 00:03:03.030 --> 00:03:06.630 Absolutely. Also very, very cold. Very cold, 46 00:03:06.870 --> 00:03:10.550 very deep. Yes. We have the lake effect, 47 00:03:10.790 --> 00:03:14.470 which means, you know, snow dumps on us ever so often 48 00:03:15.510 --> 00:03:19.230 in unprecedented ways that people who don't live 49 00:03:19.230 --> 00:03:23.030 around water don't get to experience so much. So this is our 50 00:03:23.030 --> 00:03:26.950 fourth year here, my kids and I. In fact, we just had our 51 00:03:26.950 --> 00:03:30.900 4th year anniversary last week. We arrived here on the 6th 52 00:03:30.900 --> 00:03:32.860 of November, 2021. 53 00:03:34.060 --> 00:03:36.300 Synchronicity. Synchronicity. 54 00:03:38.060 --> 00:03:40.940 We were chatting away in the green room just before we went live here, and 55 00:03:41.180 --> 00:03:45.139 we're talking about your name, Khutso Madubanya. And you were saying, 56 00:03:45.139 --> 00:03:48.540 well, call me Khutso because that's your name. 57 00:03:48.780 --> 00:03:52.660 Whereas the other part of your name, the Madubanya, is your 58 00:03:52.660 --> 00:03:55.800 family name. And you almost said 59 00:03:56.520 --> 00:04:00.000 you'd be offended if people called you anything else than Khutso . Do you want 60 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.400 to explain a bit about your family heritage and what 61 00:04:03.720 --> 00:04:07.640 your name means to you? Yeah, absolutely. You know, we 62 00:04:07.640 --> 00:04:11.520 all have a. Well, in most cultures, you know, I've lived in eight countries. I 63 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:15.240 know that not all cultures go by first and last name the way we 64 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:19.000 do, but in South Africa we do have first and last name. 65 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:22.960 Madubanya is my family name. Really, really proud of 66 00:04:22.960 --> 00:04:26.110 my lineage. And Khutso is my first name, obviously. 67 00:04:26.670 --> 00:04:30.510 And Khutso means peace. And all my life 68 00:04:30.670 --> 00:04:34.630 I have felt that I was the peace bearer, for 69 00:04:34.630 --> 00:04:38.590 better or worse. I've always been that personality that everybody 70 00:04:39.230 --> 00:04:42.910 congregates around to help them understand differences, 71 00:04:42.990 --> 00:04:46.750 because I've always had this, like, objective way of looking at things and 72 00:04:48.670 --> 00:04:52.120 just being able to bring people together. So, 73 00:04:52.280 --> 00:04:56.000 yeah, my first name means a lot to me. So that's my 74 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:59.080 family name. But if anyone call me anything other than 75 00:04:59.960 --> 00:05:03.880 Kutso, I'd be really offended because 76 00:05:03.960 --> 00:05:07.720 actually in my native language it's not 77 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:11.480 quite pronounced Khutso, pronounced Ku Jo. 78 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:15.080 But then that has all sorts of implications in terms of 79 00:05:15.880 --> 00:05:19.770 spelling. So I've decided Khutso 80 00:05:19.770 --> 00:05:23.650 is who I want the world to call me. And that's exactly how 81 00:05:23.650 --> 00:05:27.610 I'd like to be. A name is really important. And 82 00:05:28.170 --> 00:05:31.570 it is, yeah, I'm obviously proud of my name. I like my name, I chose 83 00:05:31.570 --> 00:05:34.890 my own name. But yeah, it is really important because it's part of your identity, 84 00:05:34.890 --> 00:05:38.170 isn't it? And certainly if it's got a meaning behind that name. 85 00:05:38.890 --> 00:05:42.490 Yes, yes. And I've always thought it so 86 00:05:42.490 --> 00:05:46.450 interesting. You know, I deliberately, of course, have my own name, but I 87 00:05:46.450 --> 00:05:50.150 deliberately called my children specifically names and I 88 00:05:50.150 --> 00:05:54.030 notice their personalities just kind of morph around those 89 00:05:54.030 --> 00:05:57.990 names, you know, what you call yourself every day, 90 00:05:57.990 --> 00:06:01.910 I think does something to your psyche in terms of the choices you do, 91 00:06:02.470 --> 00:06:06.070 the choices you make. I'd argue it's very 92 00:06:06.070 --> 00:06:10.070 interesting. Very, very interesting and important. So you've lived 93 00:06:10.070 --> 00:06:13.710 in eight countries, you're a woman of African 94 00:06:13.710 --> 00:06:16.550 descent, you're a single mother. 95 00:06:18.620 --> 00:06:22.580 What does that also mean to you about your identity, who you are, what's your 96 00:06:22.580 --> 00:06:26.220 place in the world? You know, Jo name. When I was a little girl 97 00:06:26.860 --> 00:06:30.820 growing up during apartheid in South Africa, I grew 98 00:06:30.820 --> 00:06:34.380 up in the 80s in South Africa. Well, I was born in the 70s, but 99 00:06:34.380 --> 00:06:37.260 I grew up in the 80s during apartheid in South Africa. 100 00:06:39.100 --> 00:06:41.500 Women, and still today, women. 101 00:06:43.190 --> 00:06:47.190 The fact that women get to take a man's last name 102 00:06:47.350 --> 00:06:49.910 really bothered me. From the time I was a little girl, 103 00:06:51.270 --> 00:06:54.630 I was the only daughter. I'd have two brothers. 104 00:06:55.510 --> 00:06:58.150 I just always felt like my place in the family 105 00:07:00.790 --> 00:07:04.590 was threatened by the fact that I was a girl. I am a 106 00:07:04.590 --> 00:07:08.390 girl. The fact that, you know, growing up, you are 107 00:07:08.550 --> 00:07:12.510 conscientious from a very young age, that one day you are going to 108 00:07:12.510 --> 00:07:16.460 leave your family and go join somebody else's through marriage. 109 00:07:17.020 --> 00:07:20.940 We have. The dowry system called lobola has, 110 00:07:20.940 --> 00:07:24.860 I'm sure, traditionally had its significance, and I'm sure it does some wonders 111 00:07:24.860 --> 00:07:28.380 in some circles. But as a young girl, I truly just 112 00:07:28.380 --> 00:07:32.380 interpreted that as I'm gonna get sold off one day and I'm gonna stop 113 00:07:32.380 --> 00:07:35.820 being myself. I'm gonna lose, you know, 114 00:07:36.060 --> 00:07:39.940 I'm no longer gonna be a Madhubanya. And I'm the only one that's disposable around 115 00:07:39.940 --> 00:07:42.900 here. I really grew up feeling disposable 116 00:07:43.780 --> 00:07:47.660 because, you know, when little boys play, you play too. But 117 00:07:47.660 --> 00:07:51.660 you're also reminded you also need to remember, you need to learn how to. How 118 00:07:51.660 --> 00:07:54.860 to cook. You need to remember, you need to learn how to clean the house 119 00:07:54.860 --> 00:07:58.860 because you're going to get married off someday to somebody 120 00:07:58.860 --> 00:08:02.260 else's family, and you're going to change your entire identity, 121 00:08:02.340 --> 00:08:05.900 everybody, everything that you are, your sense of 122 00:08:05.900 --> 00:08:09.890 belonging in the world. That pushed 123 00:08:09.890 --> 00:08:13.890 me to become extremely, One, rebellious and 124 00:08:13.890 --> 00:08:17.570 two, independent. I became fiercely 125 00:08:17.570 --> 00:08:21.250 independent. So by the, you know, around 126 00:08:21.330 --> 00:08:25.250 the age of 17, I left South Africa. Hence, I've lived in eight countries. 127 00:08:25.330 --> 00:08:29.210 I left South Africa, luckily, armed with a scholarship, I was raised by 128 00:08:29.210 --> 00:08:32.530 a really strong woman who made sure, you know, I did. 129 00:08:33.180 --> 00:08:37.020 She did prepare me to be somebody's wife one day. But she also made sure, 130 00:08:37.340 --> 00:08:40.460 as you did, you know, 131 00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:45.020 in that era, you don't want your child to depend on A man 132 00:08:45.100 --> 00:08:49.059 for the rest of their lives. And so through her 133 00:08:49.059 --> 00:08:52.940 guidance and all excelled academically, got 134 00:08:52.940 --> 00:08:56.700 myself a scholarship. 17, 18. I left the country 135 00:08:57.900 --> 00:09:01.280 because I rebelled against that whole culture of, 136 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:06.920 you know, essentially disrespecting women. Women are just there to 137 00:09:06.920 --> 00:09:10.840 serve. Girl. If you're a girl child, yes, you 138 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:14.360 can get all this education, you can do whatever, you can be amazing, but at 139 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:18.280 the end of the day, you're disposable. You need to earn your 140 00:09:18.280 --> 00:09:19.920 keep, essentially. 141 00:09:22.560 --> 00:09:26.530 So I left the country and I just 142 00:09:26.530 --> 00:09:30.410 never quite went back until when I started having kids 20 143 00:09:30.410 --> 00:09:34.250 years later. I had a difficult time, you know, I had a really 144 00:09:34.410 --> 00:09:37.370 difficult relationship and I needed to go back to, 145 00:09:38.890 --> 00:09:42.330 to, to reconnect with family and get some support there 146 00:09:42.650 --> 00:09:46.610 and lived there for about 10 years and then decided to come back. 147 00:09:46.610 --> 00:09:50.010 I mean, yeah, that's a long and short. 148 00:09:50.730 --> 00:09:54.360 I've been driven to rebel against 149 00:09:54.920 --> 00:09:58.560 the notion that women have to 150 00:09:58.560 --> 00:10:01.240 earn their worth in society. 151 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:06.200 And I've seen how that's in me translated 152 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:09.640 into this, what is called now I know 153 00:10:10.280 --> 00:10:14.120 hyper independence. You make choices from the place of fear. 154 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:18.800 You make choices from the place of needing to prove your 155 00:10:18.800 --> 00:10:22.710 worth. And now I realise it's not just me because I was raised 156 00:10:22.710 --> 00:10:26.670 in black South Africa and all of that. It's a common trait around the 157 00:10:26.670 --> 00:10:30.350 world. I just released my first book, Normal Free Passes that 158 00:10:30.350 --> 00:10:33.510 unpacks this whole storey. It's a part memoir, part 159 00:10:33.670 --> 00:10:37.550 manifesto. I've had quite a few people come back to 160 00:10:37.550 --> 00:10:40.750 me already and say, oh my gosh, this is not just a South African thing, 161 00:10:40.750 --> 00:10:44.550 it's not just a you thing, and it's not even just a woman thing. 162 00:10:45.280 --> 00:10:49.280 There are so many people out there, especially so called high 163 00:10:49.280 --> 00:10:53.240 achievers, right, Overachievers. We are strong, we can do it 164 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:55.840 all. We don't need anybody, we don't ask for help. 165 00:10:57.040 --> 00:11:00.959 And we think all of that is a strength. But it's a trauma 166 00:11:00.959 --> 00:11:04.920 response, It's a real trauma response. At some 167 00:11:04.920 --> 00:11:08.000 point I learned the hard way 168 00:11:08.560 --> 00:11:12.400 that actually all of this, not only is it not sustainable, 169 00:11:12.800 --> 00:11:16.560 but there's nothing virtuous about just 170 00:11:16.560 --> 00:11:20.560 leads to burnout. And none of us need that in this 171 00:11:20.560 --> 00:11:24.360 day. Okay, now I went off a tangent. I don't know. I 172 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:27.760 answered your question. It started with the name no. 173 00:11:29.680 --> 00:11:33.520 I'm very moved actually by your words. I've never had heard 174 00:11:33.520 --> 00:11:37.520 somebody say what you've just said. With so much 175 00:11:38.650 --> 00:11:42.450 lived experience, so much conviction, so much passion in a way 176 00:11:42.450 --> 00:11:46.410 that's really rattled my cage, if you 177 00:11:46.410 --> 00:11:49.610 like. I've never really Thought about 178 00:11:50.250 --> 00:11:53.450 your storey. The way you've told it, you know, being raised as a young girl 179 00:11:53.690 --> 00:11:57.130 with the expectation of being chattel and sold like cattle 180 00:11:57.850 --> 00:12:01.290 with a. With a dowry and less valuable 181 00:12:01.610 --> 00:12:05.190 as a. As a. As a wife. Your. A baby giver. 182 00:12:05.990 --> 00:12:09.270 You're there to serve a husband, a man. 183 00:12:10.950 --> 00:12:14.310 I'd never. I'd never. Whilst I was aware, 184 00:12:15.270 --> 00:12:19.070 I'd never really thought about it in the way you've just described it. And that. 185 00:12:19.070 --> 00:12:22.950 That's. That's so powerful. It's quite moving. Thank you, Joanne. You 186 00:12:22.950 --> 00:12:26.470 just reminded me of something else I omitted to share. Speaking of 187 00:12:26.470 --> 00:12:29.990 identity and names, remember we started with Cuzzo 188 00:12:29.990 --> 00:12:33.890 Marbana. Now, 189 00:12:33.890 --> 00:12:37.170 rebelling against exactly what you just summed up. 190 00:12:37.810 --> 00:12:41.730 The fear that one day I was gonna get kicked out of my home. 191 00:12:42.610 --> 00:12:46.530 And the fact that you know, every time you leave the house and you're in 192 00:12:46.530 --> 00:12:50.490 public circles, you get branded. When you fill 193 00:12:50.490 --> 00:12:54.450 out forms, you have to pick. You're a Ms. M I s s. You're 194 00:12:54.450 --> 00:12:57.410 a Mrs. You're married or you're not married. As if. 195 00:12:58.290 --> 00:13:01.970 Sorry, you can tell I'm still very mad. As if your marital 196 00:13:01.970 --> 00:13:05.770 status matters. Do men have to do that? And here 197 00:13:05.770 --> 00:13:09.770 we're just talking strictly binary. Heterosexual. I know there's a whole spectrum, but 198 00:13:09.770 --> 00:13:13.410 I'm just talking the two extremes here, because that's the world I grew up in. 199 00:13:13.410 --> 00:13:17.090 Do men ever. Did men. Do men ever have to declare 200 00:13:17.090 --> 00:13:20.850 their marital status on a form? No. 201 00:13:21.650 --> 00:13:25.610 And you know what? Why? I excelled academically and truly. You don't want 202 00:13:25.610 --> 00:13:29.330 to know how many degrees I have. It's embarrassing how many degrees I have. 203 00:13:30.380 --> 00:13:33.100 I decided I'm gonna become Dr. 204 00:13:33.820 --> 00:13:37.740 Marutanya. I'm gonna be that. I'm gonna get my doctorate, even 205 00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:41.620 if it kills me, because I refuse to have 206 00:13:41.620 --> 00:13:45.580 to declare to the world every single time I fill out a form 207 00:13:45.900 --> 00:13:49.500 whether I'm married or not. What has love Got to do with it? 208 00:13:50.300 --> 00:13:53.820 Does it. That's a good song. That's what it is. That's right. 209 00:13:54.540 --> 00:13:55.820 As a Tina Tanner. 210 00:13:58.670 --> 00:14:02.630 Got to do. Got to do with it. Yeah, I know, but what. Why 211 00:14:02.630 --> 00:14:06.550 does it matter? Why does it matter, really, if 212 00:14:06.550 --> 00:14:10.510 men can get away with it, why can't women? Yeah. You've also, by 213 00:14:10.510 --> 00:14:14.310 using doctor, you're not only not declaring you're married or not 214 00:14:14.310 --> 00:14:17.630 married, you're also declaring anonymity in terms of your gender or 215 00:14:18.350 --> 00:14:22.270 who you are. Really judge me on what I produce. 216 00:14:22.350 --> 00:14:26.120 Yeah. Yes, that's also very true. And I felt it especially 217 00:14:27.160 --> 00:14:31.160 more recently, you know, with my last relocation. 218 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:35.320 I said we moved to Michigan about four years ago. Now there's a whole 219 00:14:35.320 --> 00:14:39.119 storey around that I had just broken 220 00:14:39.119 --> 00:14:42.360 up from the love of my life. It was quite unexpected. 221 00:14:43.160 --> 00:14:46.280 That was my children's stepfather. And 222 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:51.370 so they, you know, as I was working 223 00:14:51.370 --> 00:14:55.050 through the heartbreak and in my very staunchly, extremely 224 00:14:55.050 --> 00:14:58.850 fiercely independent way, you know, I can do it all. I'm gonna pick up my 225 00:14:58.850 --> 00:15:02.850 children and go live exactly where I want to live. Found myself at 226 00:15:02.850 --> 00:15:06.810 that point. I didn't have my doctorate yet. Found myself thinking, 227 00:15:07.130 --> 00:15:11.050 you know what? I would feel a lot more prepared 228 00:15:11.050 --> 00:15:12.330 or a lot more 229 00:15:15.050 --> 00:15:18.910 protected if I had my doctorate, because wherever 230 00:15:18.910 --> 00:15:22.590 I go. I moved to Michigan, I didn't know anybody here. It just looked pretty. 231 00:15:22.590 --> 00:15:26.110 I mean, I Googled it and I wanted nice places to live and I thought, 232 00:15:26.110 --> 00:15:29.830 it sounds like a nice place to raise my kids. And so I knew I 233 00:15:29.830 --> 00:15:33.790 would not have a support structure here. And I knew. I thought the 234 00:15:33.790 --> 00:15:37.670 one weapon I wish I had four years ago was my doctorate, 235 00:15:37.990 --> 00:15:41.670 because I would get there. The minute you get there, you fill out forms. 236 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:45.160 No one's going to have to, you know, have to think, oh, it's a woman, 237 00:15:45.160 --> 00:15:48.960 she's not married, she has kids, she's a single mom, she's black, she's 238 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:52.720 this, she's that. You're a doctor, period. And that alone 239 00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:55.560 opens a whole lot of, you know, 240 00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:59.720 opportunities, conversations that you otherwise won't have. 241 00:15:59.960 --> 00:16:03.880 When people are preoccupying themselves with boxing you into 242 00:16:03.880 --> 00:16:07.640 anything other than your innate worth that you're born with, 243 00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:11.740 which is what my book is about. We're all just born with innate worth. You 244 00:16:11.740 --> 00:16:15.540 know, this whole notion that you need to get a doctorate before somebody respects you, 245 00:16:15.780 --> 00:16:19.660 it's ridiculous, really. And I know a whole chunk of it is in 246 00:16:19.660 --> 00:16:22.500 my mind, you know, not everybody feels that way, 247 00:16:23.300 --> 00:16:27.220 but it really troubled me that. And 248 00:16:27.220 --> 00:16:31.060 still does, well, maybe to a less extent with the. With the 249 00:16:31.060 --> 00:16:34.980 titles these days, because there is an Ms. And, you know, depending on where you 250 00:16:34.980 --> 00:16:38.660 live, you can be a lot more accommodating and less accommodating of 251 00:16:38.820 --> 00:16:42.500 people's marital status, sexual orientation, whatnot. 252 00:16:42.500 --> 00:16:46.020 But it still really bothers me that things of that 253 00:16:46.100 --> 00:16:50.020 nature matter in society. Yeah, 254 00:16:50.020 --> 00:16:51.700 I mean, I use Ms. 255 00:16:53.860 --> 00:16:57.860 Because I am married to my wife. She's been married for best part of 256 00:16:57.860 --> 00:17:01.700 38 years. It didn't make sense to me to be Mrs. Also, 257 00:17:02.910 --> 00:17:06.870 my surname, my family name is not the family name I was born with, so 258 00:17:06.870 --> 00:17:10.830 I changed it at the same time I changed my first name for various reasons. 259 00:17:11.150 --> 00:17:15.150 So there is. There is no Mr. Lockwood or even 260 00:17:15.150 --> 00:17:19.150 another Mrs. Lockwood. And sometimes I get, I get post or emails 261 00:17:19.150 --> 00:17:22.630 addressed to Mr. And Mrs. Lockwood or that, or sometimes I'll be called Mr. 262 00:17:22.630 --> 00:17:26.510 Lockwood because of my voice and things like that. So, yeah, it is interesting the 263 00:17:26.510 --> 00:17:30.490 assumptions people make based on that title that Ms. 264 00:17:30.490 --> 00:17:31.850 That Mr. The Ms. 265 00:17:34.730 --> 00:17:38.650 No, it's crazy. It really is. It really bothered. It bothered me 266 00:17:38.650 --> 00:17:42.570 from the time I was very, very young. I said so 267 00:17:43.210 --> 00:17:46.810 then after I got to Michigan, you know, I had started this 268 00:17:46.810 --> 00:17:50.370 doctorate a long time ago. I told you I even lived in Nottingham. That was 269 00:17:50.370 --> 00:17:54.250 one of the times I attempted to do a doctorate. This doctorate 270 00:17:54.250 --> 00:17:57.740 had been in the works by the time I finished it two years ago. It 271 00:17:57.740 --> 00:18:01.580 had been in the works for over 25 years with like stops 272 00:18:01.580 --> 00:18:04.900 and goes and marriages and breakups and children and, 273 00:18:05.860 --> 00:18:09.820 and all of that. Truly at that, you know, when 274 00:18:09.820 --> 00:18:13.540 I got here and I realised I wish as a single mom 275 00:18:14.420 --> 00:18:18.380 I had that extra layer of, you know, what I felt 276 00:18:18.380 --> 00:18:22.380 would be protection to not. Among 277 00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:26.120 other things, I just said, this is it, all right, I'm doing this, I'm 278 00:18:26.120 --> 00:18:29.960 finishing it. So it was a really tumultuous time, 279 00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:33.680 but I finished it. So who benefits most 280 00:18:33.760 --> 00:18:37.680 from the doctor title? Is it you 281 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:41.640 and your imposter syndrome? Does it give you more confidence? Does it give you 282 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:45.440 a boost? Does it enhance your own sense of self worth? Or does it actually 283 00:18:46.560 --> 00:18:50.050 change the perception that other people have of you as well? Or is it a 284 00:18:50.050 --> 00:18:54.010 combination of those things? The truth is probably a combination of 285 00:18:54.010 --> 00:18:57.730 both. But it means a lot to me for myself, 286 00:18:58.850 --> 00:19:02.810 you know, dealing with that imposter Joe. And I'm going to tell 287 00:19:02.810 --> 00:19:06.330 you the largest storey of what happened in the last four years. But people are 288 00:19:06.330 --> 00:19:09.770 very surprised when I tell them because they look at me and they're like, well, 289 00:19:09.770 --> 00:19:13.370 you're such a, you know, you're such an overachiever. You've got all these degrees, you've 290 00:19:13.370 --> 00:19:17.320 had all these fabulous careers, you've lived around the world, you, you name it. 291 00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:21.480 But that whole feeling worth, like you 292 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:25.160 said, imposter syndrome is something I work on every 293 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:29.080 day. I have posters around, actually, you can see 294 00:19:29.080 --> 00:19:32.280 them. But I have little post it notes all over my house. 295 00:19:32.840 --> 00:19:36.280 I am enough. I am worthy. 296 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:40.920 I have them in the car, I have them in the bathroom, I 297 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:44.720 have them in the kitchen because I need to 298 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:48.320 remind myself and my children every day 299 00:19:48.800 --> 00:19:52.320 that you don't need to earn your worth. You are born 300 00:19:52.320 --> 00:19:55.680 worthy. And yes, I think there's this title doctor. 301 00:19:56.080 --> 00:20:00.080 It helps. If nothing else, it's what do they call it? Bucket list 302 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:04.000 item checked off, right? Yeah. But yeah, 303 00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:07.760 I feel that it psychologically also 304 00:20:07.760 --> 00:20:11.670 helps me to be more bold. And I should give you permission to speak, does 305 00:20:11.670 --> 00:20:14.190 it? Permission to speak, Permission to be heard. 306 00:20:15.310 --> 00:20:19.070 Yes. And I shouldn't have to do that. That's what I realised through my 307 00:20:19.070 --> 00:20:23.030 journey, writing my first book that I just released. Normal 308 00:20:23.030 --> 00:20:26.750 free passes. You don't need to go through all this trouble 309 00:20:27.070 --> 00:20:30.630 to feel some, some. You don't need permission. You do not need 310 00:20:30.630 --> 00:20:34.270 permission to be, to exist. You're not disposable. 311 00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:39.000 Your worth is not in question, you're born with it. 312 00:20:39.800 --> 00:20:43.760 Just because you exist, you're a worthwhile human being. Like 313 00:20:43.760 --> 00:20:47.480 I said, it's something I work on every day. And I, 314 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:51.719 as I was journeying through the book writing process, 315 00:20:52.600 --> 00:20:55.800 I reflected back on a whole bunch of things, 316 00:20:56.360 --> 00:21:00.280 including why I came to feel that way, which I already shared 317 00:21:00.280 --> 00:21:04.090 with you. And also their realisation that this is pretty 318 00:21:04.090 --> 00:21:08.050 universal just happening to me. I've had so many people, as I said, really 319 00:21:08.050 --> 00:21:11.690 resonate with this as an issue because you end up with traits like 320 00:21:11.930 --> 00:21:15.930 you don't ask for help, you, nothing, Joe petrifies 321 00:21:15.930 --> 00:21:19.570 me more than asking for help. I know it 322 00:21:19.570 --> 00:21:23.290 sounds silly, right? But for some of us, if 323 00:21:23.290 --> 00:21:27.250 you all your life have thought that, you know, asking for help 324 00:21:27.250 --> 00:21:31.250 makes you look weak, it means you don't have it 325 00:21:31.250 --> 00:21:34.930 together since you are superwoman or super person or whatever, 326 00:21:36.370 --> 00:21:40.210 man, it's petrifying. So I've been 327 00:21:40.210 --> 00:21:43.770 working a lot on building, reminding 328 00:21:43.770 --> 00:21:47.530 myself, because it's not as though we don't know these things. Just 329 00:21:47.530 --> 00:21:49.010 reminding myself 330 00:21:51.250 --> 00:21:54.530 of my worth, innate worth, as I said, through those 331 00:21:55.060 --> 00:21:58.820 little signs I have around my house, but also articulating 332 00:21:58.900 --> 00:22:02.740 how it is that I am helping myself 333 00:22:03.140 --> 00:22:06.980 and others make that connection between their well being, 334 00:22:07.060 --> 00:22:11.020 their innate worth and the choices they make. And always stems 335 00:22:11.020 --> 00:22:14.100 back to your childhood where you were 336 00:22:14.580 --> 00:22:17.460 rebelling against being property, being sold 337 00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:21.940 something only a person only existed for the benefit of a man. 338 00:22:22.490 --> 00:22:25.290 That's where your lifelong 339 00:22:26.490 --> 00:22:30.450 insecurity, for want of a better way of saying it, is developed. And 340 00:22:30.450 --> 00:22:34.250 the imposter syndrome and your lack of self worth. 341 00:22:34.330 --> 00:22:37.650 And you've had to reclaim that. It's taken you most of your life to reclaim 342 00:22:37.650 --> 00:22:41.530 that. Right? Right. Which I did, 343 00:22:41.530 --> 00:22:45.370 as I said, outwardly, through degrees, through careers, through that, through that. 344 00:22:45.370 --> 00:22:48.570 But at the end of the day, I'm going to share a storey with you 345 00:22:48.980 --> 00:22:52.900 that now tells you how I started to 346 00:22:53.300 --> 00:22:57.220 realise that this is an internal machine. It's an internal 347 00:22:57.220 --> 00:23:00.700 issue. Not Something word is not something you earn 348 00:23:00.700 --> 00:23:04.540 outwardly. It's something that, you know, you. You really 349 00:23:04.540 --> 00:23:08.340 have need in you. All right, so, Becca, four years ago, 350 00:23:09.540 --> 00:23:13.220 I already mentioned, we moved here. The catalyst was a big 351 00:23:13.220 --> 00:23:17.130 breakup, right from the love of my life with my children's 352 00:23:17.130 --> 00:23:20.970 stepfather. And we moved to Michigan 353 00:23:21.210 --> 00:23:24.970 and a whole series of things happened. Within a couple of weeks of 354 00:23:24.970 --> 00:23:28.850 arriving here, I lost my job. Dun, dun, 355 00:23:28.850 --> 00:23:32.650 dun. And now I'm in Michigan. It's 356 00:23:32.650 --> 00:23:36.650 November, snowing, it's cold. We're in 357 00:23:36.650 --> 00:23:39.050 our excitedly unfurnished 358 00:23:40.580 --> 00:23:44.460 pardon me. And I know nobody. As 359 00:23:44.460 --> 00:23:48.460 if that were not enough fast forward we 360 00:23:48.460 --> 00:23:52.220 get through those difficult months. You know, I went in the 361 00:23:52.220 --> 00:23:55.220 us, I think they have this in the UK as well. You know, it's called 362 00:23:55.220 --> 00:23:58.740 unemployment. You get benefits from retirement. 363 00:23:58.820 --> 00:24:02.500 Yes. You get on the dough if you like. Never been on the dough in 364 00:24:02.500 --> 00:24:06.110 my life. It was a humbling experience. When you 365 00:24:06.110 --> 00:24:09.950 apply, you know, people, that's. Again, are you a miss or 366 00:24:09.950 --> 00:24:13.950 misses You're a single mom, you're a statistic, you know, especially you're a 367 00:24:13.950 --> 00:24:17.870 black single mom. You live in the hood. It's like, do you know? 368 00:24:17.870 --> 00:24:21.869 You know. But anyway, went through that humbling experience of 369 00:24:21.950 --> 00:24:25.230 getting the help I needed from the government. And as part of that, 370 00:24:26.670 --> 00:24:30.510 I ended up opening a whole can of worms that 371 00:24:30.510 --> 00:24:34.380 I didn't see coming. There was a whole legal case that 372 00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:38.140 arose from that, which lasted a whole two years. 373 00:24:38.860 --> 00:24:42.660 So now I'm unemployed. There's this legal case hovering over 374 00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:46.340 me. I'm trying to adjust to living in a new country. I'm 375 00:24:46.340 --> 00:24:50.060 helping three children. Did I say two out of the three are twins? 376 00:24:51.100 --> 00:24:54.780 And at the time there were 12 and seven in a foreign country 377 00:24:54.940 --> 00:24:58.870 on my own, all those factors together, and 378 00:24:58.870 --> 00:25:02.790 then luckily I get another job. Right now we're over 379 00:25:02.790 --> 00:25:06.750 the hump with the unemployment, but because I 380 00:25:06.750 --> 00:25:10.230 was so desperate at the time, I took the job. The first job that 381 00:25:10.710 --> 00:25:14.390 looked like would pay the bills. And I didn't think about or I didn't even 382 00:25:14.390 --> 00:25:18.230 realise it was a career pivot. I 383 00:25:18.230 --> 00:25:22.150 didn't realise I knew nothing about it. I thought I knew, but I didn't. I 384 00:25:22.150 --> 00:25:25.310 was just in such desperation at the time. I need a job. I need a 385 00:25:25.310 --> 00:25:29.170 job in a foreign country. It's freezing. We need food, the children, you 386 00:25:29.170 --> 00:25:33.050 know, we just got here and I know nobody. I accept this job 387 00:25:33.050 --> 00:25:36.930 and this job turned out to be a nightmare for a little bit. It was 388 00:25:36.930 --> 00:25:40.250 a nightmare. I mean, I knew absolutely nothing about this. 389 00:25:41.370 --> 00:25:45.130 This is now beginning of 2022 legal cases 390 00:25:45.210 --> 00:25:48.930 full Steam ahead. I just started this new career 391 00:25:48.930 --> 00:25:52.690 path that I knew nothing about. I mean, I found myself 392 00:25:52.690 --> 00:25:56.650 reporting to supervisors that are young enough to 393 00:25:56.650 --> 00:25:59.730 be my children, among other things. 394 00:26:01.730 --> 00:26:05.610 I'm learning everything. Entry level, you know, moving from having run my 395 00:26:05.610 --> 00:26:09.490 own agency and I was a senior economist in South 396 00:26:09.490 --> 00:26:13.410 Africa, I was running multilateral discussions 397 00:26:13.410 --> 00:26:17.170 on behalf of my country. Now I'm coming back to report to some 398 00:26:17.170 --> 00:26:20.850 25 year old who's teaching me how to fill out an invoice. 399 00:26:21.450 --> 00:26:25.330 But I need the job because they'll pay me well for it and they'll let 400 00:26:25.330 --> 00:26:28.570 me work at home because I have no help, I have no support. 401 00:26:29.930 --> 00:26:33.930