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Joanne Lockwood: And today is episode 203 with the title
Joanne Lockwood: Belonging Beyond Borders. And I have the absolute honour and
Joanne Lockwood: privilege to welcome Solveiga Jaskunas, Solveiga
Joanne Lockwood: is an international keynote speaker and HR consultant who helps
Joanne Lockwood: immigrants and expats thrive at work by turning lived
Joanne Lockwood: experience into practical human centred inclusion.
Joanne Lockwood: When I asked Salviga to describe her superpower, she said that it is leading with
Joanne Lockwood: hope, compassion and vulnerability. Hello
Joanne Lockwood: Solveiga, welcome to the show. Hello Jo.
Solveiga Jaskunas: It's incredible to be here with you. Like, we had several
Solveiga Jaskunas: communications over LinkedIn and now it's nice to meet you in
Solveiga Jaskunas: person finally. We did and I think it was almost a year
Joanne Lockwood: coming from a year since you originally applied to be on the show and it's
Joanne Lockwood: taken us, well, 11 months to finally connect and be here today.
Joanne Lockwood: So this is fascinating. Yeah, it is. And you have
Solveiga Jaskunas: incredible conversations. I totally love them.
Joanne Lockwood: I'm guessing from your accent that you are not born and bred in the
Joanne Lockwood: USA because you're currently living in Washington D.C. you've started
Joanne Lockwood: off your life in a different part of the world. Yeah, so I am originally
Solveiga Jaskunas: from Lithuania, Eastern Europe and then, yeah, I
Solveiga Jaskunas: lived in the States for more than 20 years already.
Joanne Lockwood: So for some time, Lithuania, it's part of the Baltics. It's the
Joanne Lockwood: southernmost, western, southwestern most Baltic, isn't it? So you've got
Joanne Lockwood: Tallinn. Tallinn, yeah. If it's the capital of
Solveiga Jaskunas: Estonia and Vilnius. Yes. You got. You've got Vilnius and
Joanne Lockwood: capital of Lithuania and you've got the Estonia and you've
Joanne Lockwood: also got the Latvia. What's the other Baltic? Latvia.
Joanne Lockwood: That's it, Riga, in fact. Latvia. Yeah. Sorry, my mind went
Joanne Lockwood: blank. It's a beautiful part of the world. I've spent time in
Joanne Lockwood: all three of the Baltics and the architecture, the
Joanne Lockwood: people, the culture is a fascinating place to be, isn't it? Yeah,
Solveiga Jaskunas: yeah. It's quiet, you know, it's different than the
Solveiga Jaskunas: state. It's more peaceful, quiet. There's a lot of
Solveiga Jaskunas: like beautiful nature. I like it. And yes, Vilnius, it's a very beautiful
Solveiga Jaskunas: city. I studied via. It's an intense like
Solveiga Jaskunas: cultural life, but it's also small and it is easy to get around.
Joanne Lockwood: So you moved to the US twenty
Joanne Lockwood: something years ago as you said. How did you find that initially? Because you said
Joanne Lockwood: you came from a very small, insular country.
Joanne Lockwood: Everyone knows each other. Literally they almost do know each other
Joanne Lockwood: to a big place like Washington D.C. where you're kind of lost in the
Joanne Lockwood: hustle and bustle of the year. Yeah, I think, you know, it's
Solveiga Jaskunas: not about the size of the city,
Solveiga Jaskunas: but it's more like was hard because you
Solveiga Jaskunas: live here, as you mentioned, everything you're familiar, you love.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And then you come to the place where you suddenly
Solveiga Jaskunas: you don't have friends. You don't know
Solveiga Jaskunas: how long it will take you to find friends. Initially, when he had
Solveiga Jaskunas: a degree in industrial psychology, I was not getting a single phone call.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And when I started getting phone calls or interviews
Solveiga Jaskunas: after I started getting my second master degree, my interview experience
Solveiga Jaskunas: was really sometimes was worse than not getting a job
Solveiga Jaskunas: because when your interview ends after first question or like
Solveiga Jaskunas: your voicemails doesn't get written, you, you don't at that point,
Solveiga Jaskunas: like I didn't know even how to compete. Even like such like when
Solveiga Jaskunas: I travelled in Europe, I, I thought my English is quite
Solveiga Jaskunas: okay. Like even I was in Britain and people in Britain
Solveiga Jaskunas: are very used to people from other countries and they will say oh, like
Solveiga Jaskunas: please repeat if you don't understand. Or they say, oh, your English is so good,
Solveiga Jaskunas: you know. Please continue speaking. And then when I came to
Solveiga Jaskunas: the States, this is where my confidence I think
Solveiga Jaskunas: got crushed because some people will walk away and they say
Solveiga Jaskunas: like I, I didn't understand a single thing you said. And I said at that
Solveiga Jaskunas: point you think you didn't, you know, like I knew that I have an accent
Solveiga Jaskunas: but. Or like they will say I don't know how you got hired. You know,
Solveiga Jaskunas: your English just, I cannot understand, bring somebody else. So things
Solveiga Jaskunas: like that makes you like, yeah, like you, you, you suddenly
Solveiga Jaskunas: start questioning and of course it's very hard to change your
Solveiga Jaskunas: accent, it's very hard to change how you speak. And even you
Solveiga Jaskunas: work, the progress doesn't happen right away. So.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And even now, like, as you can see, like I've lived for many years
Solveiga Jaskunas: and I still make mistakes and probably I'll make till the rest of my
Solveiga Jaskunas: life because sometimes you get used to say certain
Solveiga Jaskunas: way things and pronounce certain way and it's hard to change.
Joanne Lockwood: So which language is Lithuanian most like?
Joanne Lockwood: Is it more like Finnish? Is it more like Russian? Where's it
Joanne Lockwood: derived from? It's similar only to
Solveiga Jaskunas: Latvian. It's a Baltic language group, so it's very different
Solveiga Jaskunas: from others. And yeah, I speak Russian because I had
Solveiga Jaskunas: to learn at school. We are part of a Soviet Union, so we had
Solveiga Jaskunas: no choice, but it was a very difficult language because
Solveiga Jaskunas: very different and I think the most similar
Solveiga Jaskunas: to Sanskrit. We say, like everybody who studies
Solveiga Jaskunas: Sanskrit, we study Lithuanian and Latvian because it's the most similar.
Joanne Lockwood: So it's not even closely related to. To Estonian
Joanne Lockwood: or to Latvia. It's just Lithuania.
Solveiga Jaskunas: It used to be Prussian too, but that language disappeared. So
Solveiga Jaskunas: now we have just two small countries and. Yeah,
Solveiga Jaskunas: wow. So you mentioned there you grew up in that
Joanne Lockwood: era, pre Berlin Wall, I guess, falling down and
Joanne Lockwood: the Solidarity movement in Poland, all of that kind of era in the
Joanne Lockwood: 80s. So how was that for you growing up as a young
Joanne Lockwood: person in that world? Yeah, so like it was
Solveiga Jaskunas: definitely very exciting to get independence. I
Solveiga Jaskunas: remember that time and yes, sometimes I don't know if I
Solveiga Jaskunas: would even know the. I knew that, you know, what we are
Solveiga Jaskunas: getting is propaganda. But what I didn't know, I have a
Solveiga Jaskunas: real event stories about my own family or about my
Solveiga Jaskunas: country because people were afraid to speak or share.
Solveiga Jaskunas: So I find out like for example, that my best friend's
Solveiga Jaskunas: father was in Siberia for 20 years only, you know,
Solveiga Jaskunas: during independence movement because nobody talked
Solveiga Jaskunas: about those things. I didn't know that my uncle was in
Solveiga Jaskunas: KGB prison and when he came back, like nobody then could
Solveiga Jaskunas: recognise him. But I found out I even didn't know what
Solveiga Jaskunas: KGB is growing up. Nobody talked about it. And
Solveiga Jaskunas: so you knew that, you know that. Yes,
Solveiga Jaskunas: we are not, you know, people say, oh, you live in the best country in
Solveiga Jaskunas: the world. We knew that people in the west live better
Solveiga Jaskunas: but. But we
Solveiga Jaskunas: didn't know that. I didn't know even like what Lithuanian flag
Solveiga Jaskunas: was. I didn't know the history of my country, my family history.
Solveiga Jaskunas: So a lot of things we find out in independence movement.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And yes, I remember my first trip to Berlin. Actually Berlin was the
Solveiga Jaskunas: first city in the West I visited and it was
Solveiga Jaskunas: shocking to see
Solveiga Jaskunas: how different it was at that time comparing to Vilnius at The time
Solveiga Jaskunas: was no renovations for 50 years.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And it was shocking to see it. And when I came
Solveiga Jaskunas: back, I remember how sad Vilnius
Solveiga Jaskunas: looked to me and I thought it will never look as the rest of
Solveiga Jaskunas: European cities because it was Nothing
Solveiga Jaskunas: renovated for 50 years, was falling apart, was very grey
Solveiga Jaskunas: and dark. And I thought, oh, this is the city I love so much. But
Solveiga Jaskunas: it looks so different from the west.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And yeah, it's beautiful to see that the changes. And I thought it will never
Solveiga Jaskunas: happen in my lifetime. And now like, you know, like when I go back, I
Solveiga Jaskunas: think it looks as, as beautiful as many other European capitals. And.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And maybe in like some ways it's more unique because it has this still
Solveiga Jaskunas: imperfection and. And that is also the beauty of it.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, I think I was there in about 2007 and it, to me it seemed
Joanne Lockwood: like a very vibrant
Joanne Lockwood: culture. Didn't feel, it didn't feel
Joanne Lockwood: like any deprivation or anything like that. I. Cause I remember being in
Joanne Lockwood: Hungary at Budapest in about 2000.
Joanne Lockwood: No, to about 1996. 97. And that
Joanne Lockwood: seemed very, very backward to me at the time. The hotel
Joanne Lockwood: was really felt like I would imagine a Soviet
Joanne Lockwood: era hotel was. There was no. There was no comfort. The
Joanne Lockwood: mattresses were like 2 inches thick and the really hard beds,
Joanne Lockwood: everything was like tiles and hardwood and nothing soft.
Joanne Lockwood: It was very, very square and boxy though. I guess
Joanne Lockwood: the world had moved on in that in 10, 15 years since I was in
Joanne Lockwood: Hungary. So yeah, I guess the Baltics also developed
Joanne Lockwood: quite quickly once they found their freedom. Yeah, yeah,
Solveiga Jaskunas: yeah, yeah, definitely it was. And it's
Solveiga Jaskunas: really amazing to see all the changes here happened and
Solveiga Jaskunas: not only, you know, how the cities look, but also how
Solveiga Jaskunas: people like, you know, see opportunities and the whole
Solveiga Jaskunas: culture change in so many good ways. I really like
Solveiga Jaskunas: it. And yes, I. Talking about Berlin, I
Solveiga Jaskunas: remember our first trip and as a
Solveiga Jaskunas: student we got to go to the camp in Germany
Solveiga Jaskunas: and we got money for it, train tickets and
Solveiga Jaskunas: a hotel. But at that time for us that money was so big
Solveiga Jaskunas: and so we decided, four of us, that
Solveiga Jaskunas: no way we can spend money for the hotel.
Solveiga Jaskunas: We'll go and find ways to be. Because we needed money.
Solveiga Jaskunas: So yeah, it was an interesting trip. Going
Solveiga Jaskunas: to a city in a country we never been before
Solveiga Jaskunas: and, and figuring out like what we are going, you know,
Solveiga Jaskunas: exploring basically city through all day, night and the
Solveiga Jaskunas: next day till we've been one to the camp.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And in some ways it was one most
Solveiga Jaskunas: memorable trips because yes, you
Solveiga Jaskunas: experience it all time. But yeah, like I, I would now like, you know, I
Solveiga Jaskunas: wouldn't think, you know, to travel that way. But at that time, you know, we
Solveiga Jaskunas: had this recession and as a student we didn't have money and it was
Solveiga Jaskunas: for us way to travel and see the world and
Solveiga Jaskunas: we made it work. Why did you pick the US and Washington
Joanne Lockwood: as your destination or did you try lots of different places before
Joanne Lockwood: you settled? Not so many other
Solveiga Jaskunas: places I just visited or travelled. My
Solveiga Jaskunas: husband is American so we met in Lithuania
Solveiga Jaskunas: and Vilnius. Like we end up in the States.
Joanne Lockwood: So you, you travel for love? Yes, it's. It
Solveiga Jaskunas: happened. We met in Lithuania and then said let's, let's
Solveiga Jaskunas: get check out and checking out, you know, sounds, sounds
Solveiga Jaskunas: good. But being an immigrant is not the same. So we called
Joanne Lockwood: this episode belonging beyond borders. And we talked very
Joanne Lockwood: early in the introduction of how that sense of belonging, it must be
Joanne Lockwood: really hard to go from a culture and a language that you've
Joanne Lockwood: grown up with. Even though you had to transition from the pre Soviet into the
Joanne Lockwood: post Soviet era and see the country develop, you're still
Joanne Lockwood: moving to the us which is a completely different culture, not knowing
Joanne Lockwood: anybody where you're. Whilst
Joanne Lockwood: you can speak English really well, you don't speak English. As a native
Joanne Lockwood: American or a native English speaker, how did you
Joanne Lockwood: find that lack of belonging and how did you move into that sort
Joanne Lockwood: of sense where you started to feel comfortable again? So it definitely is a
Solveiga Jaskunas: journey. Like I tell everybody, like I mentored a
Solveiga Jaskunas: lot of immigrants as well. It doesn't happen right away.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And in some ways that experience
Solveiga Jaskunas: definitely challenges you in so many different
Solveiga Jaskunas: ways. But also and definitely humbles because yeah,
Solveiga Jaskunas: you, yeah, there are many days that yeah, you don't know if you ever
Solveiga Jaskunas: will be able to compete. I think what changed for
Solveiga Jaskunas: me, like a lot of different things, but what it helped me
Solveiga Jaskunas: first like, you know, you know, been talking about the interviews.
Solveiga Jaskunas: At some point I thought I will not get a job and
Solveiga Jaskunas: was like really difficult. As I mentioned, experience when you go and you see that
Solveiga Jaskunas: people are not interested in you right away as you start talking. And
Solveiga Jaskunas: at that point I realised that I don't care here if I get a job.
Solveiga Jaskunas: I just want to get better and more comfortable in, in the interviews. And I
Solveiga Jaskunas: started instead going to every interview and think about
Solveiga Jaskunas: how I can do better next time. And I start comparing my
Solveiga Jaskunas: own progress to where I was, you know, you know, month ago. And then when
Solveiga Jaskunas: you start seeing progress, it changes and then you also stop
Solveiga Jaskunas: paying attention what other people think about you because you think about
Solveiga Jaskunas: yourself and start see room progress. What also
Solveiga Jaskunas: helped Me really, especially in
Solveiga Jaskunas: the last few years, I thought I'm already
Solveiga Jaskunas: quite confident. And then I was challenged to
Solveiga Jaskunas: be visible and to do speaking and being visible on the
Solveiga Jaskunas: social media. And I realised how much I still
Solveiga Jaskunas: had that imposter syndrome about myself that I
Solveiga Jaskunas: didn't even realise. And I've learned how helpful it was
Solveiga Jaskunas: for me to be more in the rooms
Solveiga Jaskunas: where I feel don't belong. In the past I
Solveiga Jaskunas: felt more comfortable going to be in the places maybe to
Solveiga Jaskunas: be a lot of other immigrants where people could resonate
Solveiga Jaskunas: experiences or language is not the same. But I've learned how
Solveiga Jaskunas: was useful for me to go to the rooms where
Solveiga Jaskunas: the less comfortable I was, the more value I got
Solveiga Jaskunas: it. For example,
Solveiga Jaskunas: in those recent years, I would
Solveiga Jaskunas: go to the meeting and I would think, okay, here
Solveiga Jaskunas: this person the most maybe, I don't know,
Solveiga Jaskunas: strongest leader in the room and the most accomplished the person probably will
Solveiga Jaskunas: never get back to me or even on the social media. I will think, okay,
Solveiga Jaskunas: who's the person maybe is likely for me to respond? And I will reach
Solveiga Jaskunas: out to the people very accomplished, the people who maybe
Solveiga Jaskunas: will never respond to me and ask for the
Solveiga Jaskunas: conversation. And I've learned, you know, how helpful for me was those
Solveiga Jaskunas: conversations and most mentoring sessions where they
Solveiga Jaskunas: suddenly pushed me out of a comfort zone who said, like you have to be
Solveiga Jaskunas: visible, you have to be speaking speaker for a leader and influencer. And I said,
Solveiga Jaskunas: well, that is not for me. And then they say why? And then they tell
Solveiga Jaskunas: why. You know, I said like I, I just don't like it. And, and now
Solveiga Jaskunas: I've realised and now they said I met with the same mentors at
Solveiga Jaskunas: Silicon Valley. Look, you are doing everything that you
Solveiga Jaskunas: thought that is not for you. And I've learned, you know, how,
Solveiga Jaskunas: yes, it's, it's helpful for me was to challenge my own comfort
Solveiga Jaskunas: zone and to, to get to know people who think and act
Solveiga Jaskunas: differently, who don't say, like to do only this thing. Think
Solveiga Jaskunas: big, act big, speak big, be bold. What you're saying there about the
Joanne Lockwood: imposter syndrome and the have just forced yourself out of your comfort
Joanne Lockwood: zone and move out of the. If you like the comfort of being with the
Joanne Lockwood: expat community, with people who kind of share in the same problem. I can
Joanne Lockwood: certainly relate to that because I've been tHRough that phase in my life
Joanne Lockwood: where you can hold yourself back by living in comfort, can't you? And when
Joanne Lockwood: we, when we're judging people or judging ourselves and I think when you talk
Joanne Lockwood: about imposter syndrome, there Your reference model of who you are doesn't
Joanne Lockwood: evolve very quickly because it's always on your tail. So you have to, you
Joanne Lockwood: have to jump, almost jump out of your comfort zone in order to see those
Joanne Lockwood: changes. And then you look back over your shoulder and think, wow, I've come
Joanne Lockwood: a long way. But day by day you don't feel like you've changed. It's really
Joanne Lockwood: interesting what you say about the interviews, where you are going to each
Joanne Lockwood: interview looking to do better than last time, preparing to do better next
Joanne Lockwood: time and eventually that would pay off and you, you'd. That confidence
Joanne Lockwood: would shine tHRough, wouldn't it? Yeah. And
Solveiga Jaskunas: it helped me not only, you know, and feel better because I
Solveiga Jaskunas: just, you know, stop paying attention, you know, what other people think,
Solveiga Jaskunas: but also helped me all to help better others. Now, like I
Solveiga Jaskunas: help a lot of other people in interviews because I start giving
Solveiga Jaskunas: different examples and seeing what will resonate. I got better, but I also
Solveiga Jaskunas: start paying attention when I start interviewing others.
Solveiga Jaskunas: I've realised how many other people, especially like immigrants or
Solveiga Jaskunas: expats, they make the same mistake as I do. They don't
Solveiga Jaskunas: really tell them, tell the storeys, they
Solveiga Jaskunas: talk too much, too little, don't give a good examples, don't give
Solveiga Jaskunas: examples at all and, and so on. So it helped me to help
Solveiga Jaskunas: others better. And yes, I got better myself. So how do you find
Joanne Lockwood: the US as a society? Is it, is it welcoming? I mean,
Joanne Lockwood: I see a lot on the news and the media about political
Joanne Lockwood: discourse at the moment. How does it feel being a. I don't want this word
Joanne Lockwood: to sound derogatory, but an immigrant, but I guess that's who you are.
Joanne Lockwood: How does it feel being in the country right now
Joanne Lockwood: with your, with your background, status? So I think, you
Solveiga Jaskunas: know, this is, in some ways it inspired me, the conversations
Solveiga Jaskunas: like, so when I search non private
Solveiga Jaskunas: conversations, nobody. I say all the time I'm immigrant. People
Solveiga Jaskunas: don't say anything. When I start speaking
Solveiga Jaskunas: about immigrant experiences, my first podcast,
Solveiga Jaskunas: people start asking me questions like, why do you
Solveiga Jaskunas: even call myself an immigrant at that time? Like, you know, for me it was
Solveiga Jaskunas: strange, you know, and I said, how come you know, I'm an immigrant?
Solveiga Jaskunas: So some people say, you live here for so many years, why do you still
Solveiga Jaskunas: call yourself an immigrant? Or like, why do you call yourself an immigrant when you
Solveiga Jaskunas: are like, you know, having your own consultancy? And I say, well,
Solveiga Jaskunas: when I was making $7 per hour, then I was an immigrant
Solveiga Jaskunas: and now like, I'm not anymore. Or like they will say
Solveiga Jaskunas: some also valid points like they will say look, Americans who
Solveiga Jaskunas: live in your country don't call them, call themselves expatriates. So why do
Solveiga Jaskunas: you call yourself an immigrant if you live in the States and, and, and
Solveiga Jaskunas: and so on or like that you don't look like an immigrant. And they said
Solveiga Jaskunas: look how look immigrant looks like. And, and then they say well in America
Solveiga Jaskunas: immigrants looks like ones who cross in Mexico border. And I said well I cross
Solveiga Jaskunas: different border. And for me immigrants know coming from all around the world.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And, and so yeah, it was interesting and that's why I've
Solveiga Jaskunas: realised that even this or like
Solveiga Jaskunas: I, I told I help other immigrants and I say why do you call other
Solveiga Jaskunas: people immigrants? And I realised well yeah, maybe it's true. Like some people don't like
Solveiga Jaskunas: to be called immigrants. We like to be called expats or
Solveiga Jaskunas: foreigners. And but yeah, like I, in some ways that inspired
Solveiga Jaskunas: the conversation because I found that being
Solveiga Jaskunas: an immigrant was definitely challenging experience. Definitely you
Solveiga Jaskunas: don't feel welcome all the time. There is a lot of now
Solveiga Jaskunas: thoughts about these good immigrants or bad immigrants. Well, for me
Solveiga Jaskunas: it's like, you know, it's just being immigrant
Solveiga Jaskunas: doesn't make you bad or good. It makes your, it's
Solveiga Jaskunas: challenging but it doesn't make you a good or bad
Solveiga Jaskunas: person. And so yeah, like that's what inspired.
Solveiga Jaskunas: Because I wanted to show that being immigrant does
Solveiga Jaskunas: not diminish your, your value actually it expands
Solveiga Jaskunas: your world, it expands your perspective. I want it
Solveiga Jaskunas: also like when I start speaking a lot of other people
Solveiga Jaskunas: say please be a voice for us because we never have a
Solveiga Jaskunas: consultant or speaker who sounds like us in HR. And I
Solveiga Jaskunas: realised, yeah, a lot of even conferences I go,
Solveiga Jaskunas: nobody talks about immigrant experiences and
Solveiga Jaskunas: nobody. There are not so many people who have accents
Solveiga Jaskunas: and from other countries, especially in HR. So I felt
Solveiga Jaskunas: like in some ways I, it, you know. Yeah, it's, it's,
Solveiga Jaskunas: it's important conversation and that's why I started, you know, considering because I
Solveiga Jaskunas: felt very passionate about it. So would you class
Joanne Lockwood: yourself? You know, in this pHRase you use a good immigrant
Joanne Lockwood: as opposed to someone maybe who's from Central America or
Joanne Lockwood: Southern America might be framed more as a bad immigrant in
Joanne Lockwood: the language. Do you have privilege by being from a, from a
Joanne Lockwood: good country? Is that that how you would say it? I don't
Solveiga Jaskunas: know. It's, it's, it's, it's a privilege. Maybe it is,
Solveiga Jaskunas: but it's also like I just don't like
Solveiga Jaskunas: altogether this classification because it's
Solveiga Jaskunas: altogether America is, is based on. Most people are
Solveiga Jaskunas: immigrants at Some point. Most not. You know,
Solveiga Jaskunas: there are very few who would consider themselves
Solveiga Jaskunas: natives from native backgrounds. It's, It's. There is a beauty of it,
Solveiga Jaskunas: you know, food and culture. That's what I think makes America so
Solveiga Jaskunas: unique because of a diversity of people and different generations of
Solveiga Jaskunas: immigrants that brought so much value to it. So it's.
Solveiga Jaskunas: Yeah, I don't agree and show. Like, it was
Solveiga Jaskunas: interesting initially when I start, you
Solveiga Jaskunas: know, speaking, I thought that only immigrants
Solveiga Jaskunas: will relate to what I talk. But then suddenly people from
Solveiga Jaskunas: all kind backgrounds say this conversation is important. They say
Solveiga Jaskunas: I was not. I felt like an immigrant in my own country,
Solveiga Jaskunas: so I have disability and you don't. But language can feel
Solveiga Jaskunas: like disability. So understand that it's important people with disability.
Solveiga Jaskunas: I also felt like I don't belong. I face different
Solveiga Jaskunas: stereotypes than you, but it's still stereotypes. Consider that, you
Solveiga Jaskunas: know, every. What you talk, it applies to so many people.
Solveiga Jaskunas: It's not only for immigrants. And this is how I feel
Solveiga Jaskunas: like, you know, it's important more talking about
Solveiga Jaskunas: experiences, what it's like, you know, to adjust, belong,
Solveiga Jaskunas: overcome challenges, be more sensitive to others. Do you call yourself
Joanne Lockwood: American now, or do you still see yourself as an expat immigrant? Are you
Joanne Lockwood: American? Yeah, well, I know. I think I still
Solveiga Jaskunas: consider myself Lithuanian, living in the
Solveiga Jaskunas: States, like, yeah, when I land, you know, when I
Solveiga Jaskunas: go back to Lithuania, I don't consider myself
Solveiga Jaskunas: immigrants in my own country, depending where I
Solveiga Jaskunas: am. But I also appreciate experience. I
Solveiga Jaskunas: appreciate that a lot. So
Joanne Lockwood: do you have an American passport now? No, I don't. I.
Solveiga Jaskunas: I'm a permanent resident because Lithuania doesn't allow dual
Solveiga Jaskunas: citizenship. And that is the reason I don't want to be a
Solveiga Jaskunas: foreigner in. In my own country, so I don't.
Joanne Lockwood: Okay, so you'd have to renounce your Lithuanian citizenship in
Joanne Lockwood: order to get American. So. And that's important to you to
Joanne Lockwood: hold on to that? Well, I think it's. It's. It's important, you know,
Solveiga Jaskunas: to my heart. Like, you know, we fight for independence
Solveiga Jaskunas: so long. It was very emotional to get Lithuanian passport for me. So
Solveiga Jaskunas: it's like, it's dear to my heart that. Yes,
Solveiga Jaskunas: you know, you don't want to be like a foreigner in your own country, too.
Joanne Lockwood: No, no, I get that. Because if you're not careful, you. You end up belonging
Joanne Lockwood: to nowhere and. Well, it. Yes,
Solveiga Jaskunas: yes. Yeah, it could be. Yeah. So you've built
Joanne Lockwood: your life with your husband and you built your business, and you've
Joanne Lockwood: done this. Have you found that sense of belonging now? Do you get to the
Joanne Lockwood: point where whilst you have your Lithuanian passport,
Joanne Lockwood: you feel as American as you can be.
Solveiga Jaskunas: I, I definitely, you know,
Solveiga Jaskunas: definitely now feel comfortable. In some ways
Solveiga Jaskunas: I probably never considered opportunities.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And in some ways in both places in Lithuania, in the
Solveiga Jaskunas: States, I feel I belong. And in some ways there are things that I also
Solveiga Jaskunas: don't belong as much. I don't know both ways. There are
Solveiga Jaskunas: situations that you change and you think differently and you
Solveiga Jaskunas: act differently. And it was
Solveiga Jaskunas: funny last time I went to Lithuania,
Solveiga Jaskunas: my friend said, solvega, you think us like American, you
Solveiga Jaskunas: changed. And I said, what do you mean? Like I didn't.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And they say no, you, you did. You, when you talk of you, you think
Solveiga Jaskunas: every, everything is possible. And I've realised, you know, these
Solveiga Jaskunas: few years, you know, I had these mentors who always say you can do it,
Solveiga Jaskunas: you can do it. And I start doing things that I never
Solveiga Jaskunas: considered before. Like speaking that was extremely hard. And
Solveiga Jaskunas: yeah, like now I, when other people say I cannot, I said no,
Solveiga Jaskunas: did you try like you can do it. So, so yeah, maybe, maybe I'm
Solveiga Jaskunas: changing. Yes. Which language do you think in? Do you think in Lithuania or do
Joanne Lockwood: you think in English? I think, I think in both. I don't know. It
Solveiga Jaskunas: comes natural in both. What
Joanne Lockwood: about if you have to to add up a sum in your head, if
Joanne Lockwood: you're counting and adding up numbers, what do you
Joanne Lockwood: add up in your head? Yeah, that is a
Solveiga Jaskunas: good question. Well, some things,
Solveiga Jaskunas: yes. I think it's more comfortable in
Solveiga Jaskunas: Lithuanian, but I switch back and forward and I don't
Solveiga Jaskunas: think anymore. No. Okay. I
Solveiga Jaskunas: just one thing I've realised
Solveiga Jaskunas: sometimes when I start speaking of somebody in Russian because I
Solveiga Jaskunas: speak Russian as well, I somehow like it doesn't switch back
Solveiga Jaskunas: sometimes because it's also a foreign language. But from Lithuanian in
Solveiga Jaskunas: English it's easy. Okay, so Russian is the hard one. Yeah, yeah,
Solveiga Jaskunas: Russian. I, I'm, I'm fluent actually. Maybe my Russian
Solveiga Jaskunas: pronunciation is, is better than English, but
Solveiga Jaskunas: I, you know, I, I, but yeah, I'm good too I guess.
Joanne Lockwood: Lithuanian and Russian, whilst they're different languages,
Joanne Lockwood: they, to some extent, sound very similar in the way you pronounce
Joanne Lockwood: words. And your, your accent sounds more Russian to me than it
Joanne Lockwood: does English. So I guess you would probably feel more accepted
Joanne Lockwood: from a native speaking Russian perspective than maybe a native
Joanne Lockwood: speaking English. I don't know. Do you think you do people tell
Joanne Lockwood: you that? Could they tell you're not native Russian?
Solveiga Jaskunas: No, they will tell that I'm not native. They will tell
Solveiga Jaskunas: it but they will say my Russian is very good. This is
Solveiga Jaskunas: what they will tell. And it wasn't, actually it got
Solveiga Jaskunas: better in the States. I spent spoke more Russian in the
Solveiga Jaskunas: states than in Latvia. Is that because you're helping or working with people who
Joanne Lockwood: are expat Russian as well? No, my first job in
Solveiga Jaskunas: the States was working with refugees and I had to
Solveiga Jaskunas: interview Russian speaking refugees and my first
Solveiga Jaskunas: sentence I remember was always saying sorry, I'm from
Solveiga Jaskunas: Lithuania and my Russian is not native. And I was mixing
Solveiga Jaskunas: English words. Lithuanian Russians was hard and then
Solveiga Jaskunas: like after a month became easy. It was interesting
Solveiga Jaskunas: because I understood Russian everything I just didn't
Solveiga Jaskunas: speak so much. And so when I started speaking it, it became
Solveiga Jaskunas: like English. I. I don't see the progress and of Russian
Solveiga Jaskunas: was. Was really big progress, fast like was hard and then
Solveiga Jaskunas: suddenly became easy. So do you think
Joanne Lockwood: you'll ever get to the point where there. So you already mentioned that
Joanne Lockwood: when you go back to your friends, they say you're speaking thinking like an American
Joanne Lockwood: here. Do you think you'll get to the point where
Joanne Lockwood: Lithuania seems like a foreign country to you? Does it? Or does it some in
Joanne Lockwood: some respects feel that way already. No, when I go back it's always
Solveiga Jaskunas: so nice. It feels very calm and
Joanne Lockwood: relaxed and yeah, it feels like going home. Yes,
Solveiga Jaskunas: it feels like going home even. Yes, I
Solveiga Jaskunas: definitely probably lost some
Solveiga Jaskunas: friends and I don't have as. As many friends as I used
Solveiga Jaskunas: to have some, you know, you. Yes, it's
Solveiga Jaskunas: relationship changes over time too because you don't see
Solveiga Jaskunas: people as much. I think that is the
Solveiga Jaskunas: hardest part, you know, living abroad, that you know, your relationship
Solveiga Jaskunas: changes. But going back as always feels very special and
Solveiga Jaskunas: very nice. So what, what do organisations need to think about when they're
Joanne Lockwood: working with people who are immigrants, expats, refugees, however you want
Joanne Lockwood: to describe people at their various stages in life. What are the
Joanne Lockwood: stereotypes, what are the things that organisations leaders need to be aware of
Joanne Lockwood: about real people? Yeah, so I think, you know, there are a few things
Solveiga Jaskunas: that you need to be aware like of course, you know, thinking about those
Solveiga Jaskunas: external stereotypes that suddenly resumes
Solveiga Jaskunas: automatically get rejected because if people
Solveiga Jaskunas: assume that your experience is not relevant, your education is not
Solveiga Jaskunas: relevant, your English maybe not good, even the interviews or
Solveiga Jaskunas: you know, when having that interview, you know, like feeling that it's
Solveiga Jaskunas: okay to. If you have somebody who's maybe not English is good,
Solveiga Jaskunas: just finish your interview after first question.
Solveiga Jaskunas: I think nobody should have that type of experience because it's already
Solveiga Jaskunas: going, you know, to the interviews. It's very painful to have all the
Solveiga Jaskunas: rejections, but when you, when you feel that, you know, you're suddenly treated
Solveiga Jaskunas: differently, it's even harder. Yeah, like, I think having
Solveiga Jaskunas: diverse recruiting teams, having a consultant and trainers who
Solveiga Jaskunas: also have like an accent and speak not perfect English, it's, it's okay
Solveiga Jaskunas: because you almost empower, like your employees. You don't say, oh, like we
Solveiga Jaskunas: value diversity. But then suddenly you, you don't have any
Solveiga Jaskunas: trainers, you don't have any recruiters, you don't have anybody who
Solveiga Jaskunas: sounds like that in each other. And it's, I think that is,
Solveiga Jaskunas: is, you know, can be one thing, but a lot of, I think
Solveiga Jaskunas: organisations don't do any work or think about that.
Solveiga Jaskunas: Many immigrants expats develop that imposter
Solveiga Jaskunas: syndrome that suddenly you, you
Solveiga Jaskunas: don't yourself consider opportunities that you think they are not
Solveiga Jaskunas: for you. So, for example, like, I, I never consider space
Solveiga Jaskunas: speaking. And speaking was for me probably even more challenging
Solveiga Jaskunas: because I had also this fear of public
Solveiga Jaskunas: speaking. So it was not only accent, but fear also.
Solveiga Jaskunas: I suddenly started stumbling over the words of stuttering. So that was another
Solveiga Jaskunas: thing. But I've learned that even some people,
Solveiga Jaskunas: yeah, many immigrants don't consider speaking or
Solveiga Jaskunas: even doing videos on LinkedIn or creating your brand because it's,
Solveiga Jaskunas: it feels uncomfortable. You do a video and then suddenly
Solveiga Jaskunas: you think you will not get hired because you make mistakes. So
Solveiga Jaskunas: organisations need to help the employees to show the value of a
Solveiga Jaskunas: diverse perspective, diverse voices, and
Solveiga Jaskunas: to show that this is what makes you unique and this is what
Solveiga Jaskunas: makes you, and this is what makes you stand out.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And so yet to work both external and internal barriers,
Solveiga Jaskunas: because I don't know at least a single person who
Solveiga Jaskunas: didn't start having this imposter syndrome. Moving
Solveiga Jaskunas: the new country.
Joanne Lockwood: America, as we said earlier, is a very cosmopolitan
Joanne Lockwood: country made up of people from many different backgrounds. I
Joanne Lockwood: believe that Spanish is almost like the most common language in the US
Joanne Lockwood: at the moment. You've got Hebrew with the Jewish community. You've got
Joanne Lockwood: other prevalent languages. French, German, Italian.
Joanne Lockwood: Everyone wants to be Italian in, in America, I believe. Yes, one of those
Joanne Lockwood: heritages. There are, there are lots of diverse
Joanne Lockwood: languages. Do you feel that you stand out
Joanne Lockwood: still in this cosmopolitan world?
Joanne Lockwood: In Washington, D.C. is a pretty
Joanne Lockwood: cosmopolitan area with lots of different communities and languages. Well, it's, it's
Solveiga Jaskunas: in, in the workplace. But at
Solveiga Jaskunas: the time, you know, when I did my first podcast and I totally
Solveiga Jaskunas: hate it, I just didn't even wanted to share because
Solveiga Jaskunas: I saw how uncomfortable I was, you could tell
Solveiga Jaskunas: it, how unclearly I was speaking.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And I wanted, you know, to project confidence with zero confidence. And at the time
Solveiga Jaskunas: when people start reaching out to me and say, please continue this conversation,
Solveiga Jaskunas: it's so important. I realised at the time I had about
Solveiga Jaskunas: 1,000 connections on LinkedIn and only two
Solveiga Jaskunas: immigrants whom I knew at that time were doing videos
Solveiga Jaskunas: on social media and both of them had perfect English
Solveiga Jaskunas: and very confident. And I've realised that a lot of other
Solveiga Jaskunas: people felt like the same as me. And yes, you definitely
Solveiga Jaskunas: even myself, you know, like I would put this video and
Solveiga Jaskunas: I would say is it helps me, maybe other people like it, but does
Solveiga Jaskunas: it help me? Now I see
Solveiga Jaskunas: that the people who not hired me, they would not hire me anyway.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And the people who actually other people opposite
Solveiga Jaskunas: opportunities came because I start putting videos
Solveiga Jaskunas: and starting getting invited to the conferences and
Solveiga Jaskunas: events because. Yeah, yeah, you still.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And, and, and I think also a lot of even
Solveiga Jaskunas: Americans, you know, the people who put videos, the ones
Solveiga Jaskunas: who speak very, very well. And then suddenly I put
Solveiga Jaskunas: something and. And then I stop in the middle sentence,
Solveiga Jaskunas: stumble. I don't know. Like. But people actually,
Solveiga Jaskunas: it's. Yeah, you stand out, you know, just this
Solveiga Jaskunas: makes you who I am. Like in the past, in fact prevented.
Solveiga Jaskunas: Now I see that makes me still different. I think
Joanne Lockwood: anyone who speaks multiple languages, certainly fluently in
Joanne Lockwood: multiple languages, has a gift that I don't have. I do speak a
Joanne Lockwood: little bit of French and petit peu très lentement. Yeah, slow and a
Joanne Lockwood: little. I do a little bit of German, enough to order some food in a
Joanne Lockwood: restaurant, maybe even less Spanish I can pick up and maybe
Joanne Lockwood: understand some of it, but I certainly couldn't speak
Joanne Lockwood: Lithuanian, I certainly couldn't speak Russian, apart from the
Joanne Lockwood: Hollywood stuff that you pick up and swear words and those sort of
Joanne Lockwood: things. So I think what we have to. What I appreciate is the skill
Joanne Lockwood: you have in speaking multiple languages. A skill I don't have. It
Joanne Lockwood: doesn't make you less intelligent, as far as I can say. It makes you more
Joanne Lockwood: intelligent, more capable because you're having to double think and
Joanne Lockwood: translate and do this all on the fly and still sound interesting,
Joanne Lockwood: intelligent and articulate and everything and trying to keep. Communicate your message.
Joanne Lockwood: So I would say what you have is a greater superpower than someone who
Joanne Lockwood: doesn't speak more than one language just because
Joanne Lockwood: you've had to adapt. I think that's a very powerful skill you have and
Joanne Lockwood: it's underappreciated, undervalued. Yeah. And
Solveiga Jaskunas: it's. And yes, you mentioned you live in
Solveiga Jaskunas: Washington D.C. one of the most diverse cities,
Solveiga Jaskunas: and yet, you know, in some neighbourhoods it's it's not like that too.
Solveiga Jaskunas: Like, I worked in a charter school in a Black
Solveiga Jaskunas: neighbourhood in D.C. and then suddenly all the students starting me
Solveiga Jaskunas: asking if I'm new Spanish teacher. And I
Solveiga Jaskunas: realised there are only a few foreigners there and there are Spanish teachers.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And this is where I told, you know, my boss,
Solveiga Jaskunas: can I go and teach the class about my own country.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And I never had as
Solveiga Jaskunas: interested, you know, I thought like, just to talk about
Solveiga Jaskunas: 15 minutes. But the first sentence, the first
Solveiga Jaskunas: thing I said at the beginning, I grew up in the Soviet Union and do
Solveiga Jaskunas: you know what it is? And the kids didn't know,
Solveiga Jaskunas: and the kids didn't know anything. And then this is where like,
Solveiga Jaskunas: what I cannot tell about my school if the kids don't know what it is.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And I never saw the kids so interested. If you
Solveiga Jaskunas: ask like really good questions. So how women are treated in your country
Solveiga Jaskunas: and how people different than you are treated in your country and what things you
Solveiga Jaskunas: do. And. And the best part was like, after, like the teacher
Solveiga Jaskunas: told that the kids start being interested in other countries
Solveiga Jaskunas: and they said, like, you open the wall for those kids, the window to
Solveiga Jaskunas: the world. And the kids starting later stopping me in the corridor saying,
Solveiga Jaskunas: I'm doing a research about your country. And I thought, how cool is that? I
Solveiga Jaskunas: realised, yes, we live in Washington D.C. one most diverse cities in the
Solveiga Jaskunas: world. And yet in some neighbourhoods, the kids in those neighbourhoods,
Solveiga Jaskunas: neighbourhoods Faran know not so much immigrants and definitely not so many
Solveiga Jaskunas: white immigrants. And. And for many of them I was the first Eastern
Solveiga Jaskunas: European who knew it. And for them then it was very
Solveiga Jaskunas: fascinating my experience and I think many
Solveiga Jaskunas: people, yeah, even that for me at that time I realised that
Solveiga Jaskunas: suddenly that class that I just thought to tell about
Solveiga Jaskunas: myself turned out like almost in
Solveiga Jaskunas: about the cultures and about diversity and about belonging.
Joanne Lockwood: So as I introduce you, you're an international keynote speaker. So
Joanne Lockwood: do you speak across the world or in America or online?
Joanne Lockwood: Where do you speak? Yes, I speak on. Yeah,
Solveiga Jaskunas: they had in person and online events just a year
Solveiga Jaskunas: and a half ago. Everywhere I applied I got
Solveiga Jaskunas: rejected and then I got invited to my first
Solveiga Jaskunas: conference Expat Women Conference and then from
Solveiga Jaskunas: via people liked and I got invited to Global HR
Solveiga Jaskunas: Conference in Lithuania, MindedTech, GSX,
Solveiga Jaskunas: Society of Human Resource Management and yes,
Solveiga Jaskunas: even interesting, like even this month. Yeah, I
Solveiga Jaskunas: have few podcasts and two of them from Britain and
Solveiga Jaskunas: one of them person I thought was from
Solveiga Jaskunas: Switzerland, one American living in Chile. So
Solveiga Jaskunas: it's interesting how when I started speaking I
Solveiga Jaskunas: got to know people from all around the world. And
Solveiga Jaskunas: events also like some of them global events too.
Joanne Lockwood: We're living in a funny time at the moment
Joanne Lockwood: politically polarised. People have opinions
Joanne Lockwood: about people. People have opinions about immigrants and
Joanne Lockwood: as you we mentioned earlier, good immigrants, bad immigrants and those sort of
Joanne Lockwood: phrases but we've got wars going on in the world at the moment
Joanne Lockwood: and Russia, Ukraine, Israel,
Joanne Lockwood: Middle east, rise of Islamophobia, rise of anti Semitism, all these
Joanne Lockwood: kind of things. Are you able to add your
Joanne Lockwood: voice into those conversations as someone has a different outside
Joanne Lockwood: perspective? Because I know many Americans that stereotype of
Joanne Lockwood: generalising here tend a very insular view of the world not too
Joanne Lockwood: worldly in some of their experiences. Yeah it's something. It's just
Solveiga Jaskunas: became a little like less safe
Solveiga Jaskunas: to talk about different issues especially
Solveiga Jaskunas: being you know not a citizen, being a permanent resident
Solveiga Jaskunas: because yeah it's feels less safe. It
Solveiga Jaskunas: feels. Yeah you can get more attacked
Solveiga Jaskunas: and you. Is it worth it? Is it worth it?
Solveiga Jaskunas: And also yeah you may be called like anti American
Solveiga Jaskunas: and I think if it's also like worth it. I start.
Solveiga Jaskunas: I still speak like for example I. I've recently
Solveiga Jaskunas: talked about misinformation, disinformation and propaganda is.
Solveiga Jaskunas: It is quite political topic and I
Solveiga Jaskunas: brought about getting brainwashed myself Growing up in the
Solveiga Jaskunas: Soviet regime and connected to today's time I decided
Solveiga Jaskunas: not to talk about mention any names or
Solveiga Jaskunas: anything but I talked about the importance of protecting
Solveiga Jaskunas: journalists and freedom of speech and standing for people
Solveiga Jaskunas: who during very difficult job providing fact
Solveiga Jaskunas: checking facts and it's our responsibility to
Solveiga Jaskunas: stand out and so but yeah like. So I bring it as as much
Solveiga Jaskunas: as I can but I also seeing that
Solveiga Jaskunas: sometimes I need to protect myself as well. This
Solveiga Jaskunas: makes sense. Yeah you have to look at
Joanne Lockwood: what is your role in the world I suppose and sometimes it's not your fight
Joanne Lockwood: or not your voice or. And you have your own as you say safety to
Joanne Lockwood: look after both and your family I guess as well. So yeah it's.
Joanne Lockwood: We can't all speak without consequence, can we? Yeah even
Solveiga Jaskunas: like you know some topics, you know like yes it's.
Solveiga Jaskunas: It's. It's hard like I definitely speak I think more than
Solveiga Jaskunas: other people do I share more things but
Solveiga Jaskunas: yeah I'll probably John like I'll give you like one example.
Solveiga Jaskunas: So I in my previous jobs came
Solveiga Jaskunas: Biden and I had a picture of Biden and one
Solveiga Jaskunas: day I had. I just wanted to do this post and
Solveiga Jaskunas: about pictures of famous people was not even political it's about
Solveiga Jaskunas: picture of famous people and I had wanted
Solveiga Jaskunas: to share Biden because I thought, well, this is the most powerful person in
Solveiga Jaskunas: the States I made, you know, he's now president. And, and it's not
Solveiga Jaskunas: that, you know, he's, you know, maybe the most
Solveiga Jaskunas: likeable. I don't know, like, it's not like that. I, I like everything about him,
Solveiga Jaskunas: but it's still like, you know, it's a picture of a famous person.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And I showed the picture for my both of my kids
Solveiga Jaskunas: and my kids said, no way you can post this post. And I say, how
Solveiga Jaskunas: come, you know, it's nothing political? He said, no, don't, don't do that. It's just
Solveiga Jaskunas: everybody will see it as a political cause. Whilst also was
Solveiga Jaskunas: presidential elections coming up. And then I asked
Solveiga Jaskunas: people in my network, maybe 20 people, I say, this is a picture,
Solveiga Jaskunas: this is a post. What do you see? My kids say, it's not. Don't post
Solveiga Jaskunas: it from 20 people.
Solveiga Jaskunas: Just two people say, Salvega, post it.
Solveiga Jaskunas: Everybody else say, don't do it. You're starting your own consultancy.
Solveiga Jaskunas: People just will see your. The picture will automatically start hitting you.
Solveiga Jaskunas: Do you want that? And I thought, well, I don't. You
Solveiga Jaskunas: know, I really don't. And they say like, if you would do something like
Solveiga Jaskunas: that 10 years ago, 15 years ago, everybody
Solveiga Jaskunas: will think as it is not political false. It's just you're sharing your
Solveiga Jaskunas: perspective, you're having picture of a famous person.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And then I thought, you know, like, it's really like this is just
Solveiga Jaskunas: an example that how political things
Solveiga Jaskunas: became and how became a little like say unsafe. Like I thought
Solveiga Jaskunas: like in any time in my history it was an immigrant. I
Solveiga Jaskunas: would come and I would have a picture of the most influential person in
Solveiga Jaskunas: the country and most, one of the most influential persons in the
Solveiga Jaskunas: world. You would be okay. And then even my kissy.
Solveiga Jaskunas: Why you just share the picture of Lithuanian president. So they thought sharing picture of
Solveiga Jaskunas: Lithuanian president was okay, but of American is not
Solveiga Jaskunas: okay and be American citizen. You know, my kids are American citizens too.
Solveiga Jaskunas: Am I? Yeah. Yeah. So this is just an example that
Solveiga Jaskunas: even like pictures can be like not okay to.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And then like at some point they can't tell us 18 people saying no.
Solveiga Jaskunas: Yeah. And I decided, well, maybe I don't. Can I ask you
Solveiga Jaskunas: now question related to this? Do you. Well,
Solveiga Jaskunas: you interview a lot of people from different parts of the world. Do you
Solveiga Jaskunas: find also that, you know, especially maybe the people
Solveiga Jaskunas: who are now like in the States, but maybe in other countries too, that they
Solveiga Jaskunas: feel suddenly less safe talking about certain
Solveiga Jaskunas: issues, especially about the politics or
Solveiga Jaskunas: anything, you know, do you find that it's less
Solveiga Jaskunas: comfortable? I, I think anybody who
Joanne Lockwood: would maybe describe themselves as
Joanne Lockwood: marginalised, minority, whatever it may be.
Joanne Lockwood: Most people I speak to in the UK and around the US
Joanne Lockwood: certainly and, and other parts of the world
Joanne Lockwood: certainly feel more uncomfortable,
Joanne Lockwood: certainly feel there's been a shift in
Joanne Lockwood: perspective from governments, from society.
Joanne Lockwood: And it's almost like the people who hold the
Joanne Lockwood: privileges, the people who are the majority
Joanne Lockwood: are pushing back and people who are being
Joanne Lockwood: marginalised feel less safe, more scared,
Joanne Lockwood: feel in the media, feel it politically that
Joanne Lockwood: things are scary. I guess I feel that myself. I
Joanne Lockwood: know people who are work, who are black or brown
Joanne Lockwood: or people of colour, people are from LGBTQIA
Joanne Lockwood: backgrounds, people are from say, migrants,
Joanne Lockwood: expats, all feeling less safe than they were.
Joanne Lockwood: And we see a rise of populism, nationalism,
Joanne Lockwood: right leaning politics, and that's becoming
Joanne Lockwood: the kind of the mainstream narrative. A lot of
Joanne Lockwood: people I talk to and the world I live in is
Joanne Lockwood: feeling less safe now than it did a year ago.
Joanne Lockwood: Certainly, certainly. And I think a lot of that is
Joanne Lockwood: maybe due to, maybe the political shift in the US has had
Joanne Lockwood: a huge impact on that. The war in Ukraine, I think it's
Joanne Lockwood: had a shift in that as well. The rise of anti immigration
Joanne Lockwood: sentiment, certainly in the UK. I'm seeing that it's.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, it's a less safe time for many people or perceived
Joanne Lockwood: to be less safe. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's,
Solveiga Jaskunas: it's, yeah, definitely. I think that is
Solveiga Jaskunas: almost for me more
Solveiga Jaskunas: concerning because, you know, growing up and having that
Solveiga Jaskunas: experience in the Soviet regime when people are even
Solveiga Jaskunas: afraid to share things with their own family members
Solveiga Jaskunas: or like even now, like seeing, you know, that basically same things
Solveiga Jaskunas: happening in Russia and many other places in the world
Solveiga Jaskunas: and in the States too, like people are less open. Some people are still,
Solveiga Jaskunas: but some other people are less open to talk about it. And
Solveiga Jaskunas: it's. Yeah, for me that
Solveiga Jaskunas: is more concerning. It's okay to agree to disagree,
Solveiga Jaskunas: but it's still important
Solveiga Jaskunas: to share perspectives as much as you can. And
Solveiga Jaskunas: I found that you build that courage and
Solveiga Jaskunas: strength every single time you bring some conversations.
Solveiga Jaskunas: As I said, I try to stay as safe as possible, but not
Solveiga Jaskunas: completely avoiding the conversations and more like bringing that still
Solveiga Jaskunas: brings that pause or brings
Solveiga Jaskunas: that discussions. And have you noticed a shift yourself in the last
Joanne Lockwood: 12 months and how safe you feel? Yeah,
Solveiga Jaskunas: yeah, definitely. It's less, but it's also almost,
Solveiga Jaskunas: it makes more meaningful. A lot of people ask me, so how
Solveiga Jaskunas: does Zalvega, you feel now, like, do you get a lot of backlash
Solveiga Jaskunas: and actually I say, yes, I do, but it happened before. Like when I start
Solveiga Jaskunas: speaking about immigrants, I think I lost about 10% or more
Solveiga Jaskunas: connections. Some people never respond or
Solveiga Jaskunas: ignore. Some people
Solveiga Jaskunas: say disconnect specifically, you know, and mention something,
Solveiga Jaskunas: but actually starting getting also more support.
Solveiga Jaskunas: I starting get more invitations. Because
Solveiga Jaskunas: when I put that immigrant voice in hr, people
Solveiga Jaskunas: who are against immigrants, they don't even connect with me.
Solveiga Jaskunas: They don't support. But the people who are supporting, when
Solveiga Jaskunas: we see those first words and we say, oh, like, what are you doing? Oh,
Solveiga Jaskunas: let me see what you're talking about. So actually,
Solveiga Jaskunas: it almost also helps me because it attracts right
Solveiga Jaskunas: people, the people who want to support the work I
Solveiga Jaskunas: do. So actually, maybe in some ways it helps me out. I have the same
Joanne Lockwood: view that I'd rather polarise people. I'd rather people
Joanne Lockwood: who weren't interested left the room and I'll just keep talking to
Joanne Lockwood: people who are interested. And it's by. By being very clear about what
Joanne Lockwood: you do and who you help and what you're for. If people don't like that,
Joanne Lockwood: that's on them. They can. They can leave the room as far as I'm concerned.
Joanne Lockwood: And you end up having conversations with people who want to talk to you.
Solveiga Jaskunas: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why we have this
Solveiga Jaskunas: conversation. It's really, like,
Solveiga Jaskunas: you know, incredible, you know, from different countries, but,
Solveiga Jaskunas: yeah, like, we feel a way. Like, I like how you
Solveiga Jaskunas: thought at the beginning you like conversations
Solveiga Jaskunas: for humans who care for humans. Something like that. You said. And I thought, oh,
Solveiga Jaskunas: this is so simple but so beautiful.
Solveiga Jaskunas: And you said, like, I just want to be curious, you know, and see we
Solveiga Jaskunas: have a conversational lead. And yes,
Joanne Lockwood: so I noticed in the. What you wrote. Bear in mind, you wrote this
Joanne Lockwood: almost a year ago. One of the things you said, you
Joanne Lockwood: suggested that I asked you is what does achieving the American Dream
Joanne Lockwood: mean to you? Has that changed in the
Joanne Lockwood: last year? What is the American Dream that you're aspiring to? Yeah,
Solveiga Jaskunas: actually, it didn't change as much because in some ways,
Solveiga Jaskunas: you know, like, I think I would never talk about
Solveiga Jaskunas: immigrantrant experiences or how to support
Solveiga Jaskunas: immigrantrants or expats or if I. If I didn't have that
Solveiga Jaskunas: experience myself, because as I mentioned, that
Solveiga Jaskunas: experience is very difficult, but it helped me to help
Solveiga Jaskunas: others better. And yeah, like, in the past, my probably
Solveiga Jaskunas: American dream was to achieve my own success, but I
Solveiga Jaskunas: found, like, how much is more rewarding for me to help
Solveiga Jaskunas: others and to inspire other people. Like, I never, as I
Solveiga Jaskunas: mentioned before, I never considered even speaking,
Solveiga Jaskunas: but I Never thought people will resonate with my
Solveiga Jaskunas: speaking and then suddenly seeing that other people
Solveiga Jaskunas: start posting or speaking or considering
Solveiga Jaskunas: opportunities because something I shared, it feels
Solveiga Jaskunas: rewarding. And even, especially now in this polarised
Solveiga Jaskunas: society where suddenly even the word immigrant feels
Solveiga Jaskunas: not okay, I, I feel okay saying, you know, this is my
Solveiga Jaskunas: picture and I feel proud to be an immigrantrant and why I
Solveiga Jaskunas: feel proud and, and yes, maybe I could use the word other
Solveiga Jaskunas: people more comfortable with, but for me, expat doesn't
Solveiga Jaskunas: describe completely my experience. I, I feel more like
Solveiga Jaskunas: an immigrantrant and I, I'm not ashamed. I'm proud of
Solveiga Jaskunas: that experience and I want for other people to see that.
Solveiga Jaskunas: Yes, be proud, not to be ashamed. Fabulous.
Joanne Lockwood: Oh, I, I, I, I'm 100% behind you and I, I
Joanne Lockwood: admire that you have the courage to have a voice and you
Joanne Lockwood: still want to be heard and you're still inspiring people who are
Joanne Lockwood: following behind you, walking beside you or even in front of you, looking,
Joanne Lockwood: looking for inspiration, looking for somebody who can put
Joanne Lockwood: into perspective what you've had to cope with and how you've adapted over the last
Joanne Lockwood: 20 or so years. So it's, it's fascinating. So Solveiga,
Joanne Lockwood: how can people get a hold of you? They want to find out more. What's
Joanne Lockwood: the best way of contacting you? Yeah, so probably LinkedIn. This
Solveiga Jaskunas: is where like I post everything. I have a Facebook account and
Solveiga Jaskunas: Instagram, but I don't actually post most things. It's hard to
Solveiga Jaskunas: keep up all these different social media accounts. I also had an
Solveiga Jaskunas: immigrantrant voice in HR website, but LinkedIn has the most
Solveiga Jaskunas: information. This is where I post all the speaking events and.
Joanne Lockwood: Fabulous. Well, I'll put those in the show
Joanne Lockwood: notes and just to help people out who are
Joanne Lockwood: searching for you. Solveiga is Solveiga and
Joanne Lockwood: Jaskunas is Jaskunas and that put that into
Joanne Lockwood: LinkedIn. They'll find you there. And
Joanne Lockwood: ImmigrantVoiceInHR.com is the website.
Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Fabulous. Fabulous. It's been an absolute pleasure. I've
Joanne Lockwood: really enjoyed our conversation today. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so
Solveiga Jaskunas: much. As we bring this
Joanne Lockwood: conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest
Joanne Lockwood: gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear
Joanne Lockwood: and heart to the cause of inclusion. Today's
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