WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.320 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 2 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.200 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 3 00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:18.720 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 4 00:00:18.720 --> 00:00:22.640 inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. 5 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:27.040 Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone 6 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:30.760 not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. 7 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:35.200 Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge 8 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.760 the status quo and share storeys that resonate 9 00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:42.480 deep within. Ready to dive in. Whether you're 10 00:00:42.480 --> 00:00:46.400 sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's 11 00:00:46.400 --> 00:00:50.360 connect, reflect and inspire action together. 12 00:00:51.080 --> 00:00:54.870 Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out 13 00:00:54.870 --> 00:00:58.670 to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 14 00:00:59.070 --> 00:01:02.590 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 15 00:01:03.470 --> 00:01:07.230 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 16 00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:10.830 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 17 00:01:15.870 --> 00:01:19.550 And today is episode 206 with the title 18 00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:24.440 Creativity Loves Difference. And I have the absolute honour and 19 00:01:24.440 --> 00:01:27.760 privilege to welcome Fredrick Harron. Fredrick is a global 20 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:31.680 creativity explorer and author who has spent two decades 21 00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:35.360 uncovering how diverse cultures unlock human potential and 22 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:39.400 fuel innovation. When I asked Frederick to describe his superpower, he 23 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:42.920 said that it is seeing creativity as a global language that 24 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:46.380 thrives, where every perspective is genuinely 25 00:01:46.380 --> 00:01:50.220 included. Hello, Frederic. Welcome to the show. Well, 26 00:01:50.620 --> 00:01:54.620 hello. I'm super excited for this conversation. Yes, 27 00:01:55.180 --> 00:01:59.060 we met six, seven years ago at a Professional Speaking association conference 28 00:01:59.060 --> 00:02:02.860 in the uk in Coventry or somewhere. Somewhere obscure like that? 29 00:02:03.420 --> 00:02:07.220 No, in Nottingham Forest. Nottingham. Nottingham Forest, that was it, 30 00:02:07.220 --> 00:02:10.820 yes. I remember your keynote. It was absolutely inspiring. And you did a 31 00:02:10.820 --> 00:02:14.710 deconstruction of a keynote you'd given to 32 00:02:14.710 --> 00:02:18.630 a, I think a 2,000 seater audience. It was a awe inspiring. No, no, 33 00:02:18.630 --> 00:02:22.470 no, it was 400,000 people watching because it 34 00:02:22.470 --> 00:02:25.950 was cast, video cast around the world for 400,000 people. It was 35 00:02:27.070 --> 00:02:30.590 10,000 people in the audience, but it was 400,000 people watching. 36 00:02:31.390 --> 00:02:34.510 Wow, that's almost like broadcast TV, isn't it? That's 37 00:02:35.230 --> 00:02:39.190 more than most news channels get. That's incredible. So when we first met, you 38 00:02:39.190 --> 00:02:41.950 were based out in the Far east, in Singapore, and you 39 00:02:42.660 --> 00:02:46.580 repatriated back to your home country of Sweden, is that right? Yeah, I spent. 40 00:02:46.980 --> 00:02:50.980 I moved to Asia in 2005 and I moved back 41 00:02:50.980 --> 00:02:54.820 during the pandemic. So I had about 20 years in Asia and 42 00:02:54.980 --> 00:02:58.340 now we're based in the archipelago of Sweden. 43 00:02:59.460 --> 00:03:03.380 Beautiful. It's beautiful. I mean, the skies, the sun, the atmosphere. 44 00:03:04.500 --> 00:03:08.460 It's a better experience, isn't it? It's a special. Archipelagos 45 00:03:08.460 --> 00:03:12.180 are not that common in the world, actually. So yes, it's a very special place. 46 00:03:12.180 --> 00:03:16.180 I love it. Yeah. And you actually own an island and that 47 00:03:16.180 --> 00:03:19.980 must be even more special. I actually own two islands to be business. 48 00:03:19.980 --> 00:03:23.580 Two islands, okay. Yes. I used to own three islands, but now I only own 49 00:03:23.580 --> 00:03:27.300 two. But it sounds very excessive for anyone except if you live in Sweden. 50 00:03:27.300 --> 00:03:31.100 It's a fun fact. Sweden has 25% of all the islands in the world. 51 00:03:31.260 --> 00:03:35.260 We have 265,000 islands in Sweden. So if you ever dream 52 00:03:35.260 --> 00:03:38.540 of owning an island, it's actually quite easy to get. While in Sweden it's not 53 00:03:38.540 --> 00:03:42.140 easy to get the ones I have because it's extremely close to this capital. 54 00:03:42.300 --> 00:03:45.440 It's actually part of the capital. If you dream of an island, you buy one 55 00:03:45.440 --> 00:03:49.280 in a far in lake somewhere in Sweden. Only 8% of the 56 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:53.160 islands in Sweden are inhibited. So 92% have no one living on them. 57 00:03:53.160 --> 00:03:55.960 So please come and, you know, join me as an island owner. 58 00:03:56.840 --> 00:04:00.680 So I'm guessing that creates its own problem around utilities, waste, water, 59 00:04:01.160 --> 00:04:05.080 electric, Internet, those kind of things. We are off grid. I've been off grid 60 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:09.080 since 1999. All our panels. I have my own 61 00:04:09.880 --> 00:04:13.670 fully, how do you say, confined. 62 00:04:14.070 --> 00:04:17.950 I like. Basically I turn my waste into compost. I make my own 63 00:04:17.950 --> 00:04:21.830 water. It's. It's super cool. Wow. So 64 00:04:21.830 --> 00:04:25.790 you are planning for a future, a dystopian future where you need 65 00:04:25.790 --> 00:04:29.430 to cut yourself off. I am very. If. 66 00:04:29.590 --> 00:04:33.190 If the shit hits the fan. We are more prepared than most. Definitely. 67 00:04:33.670 --> 00:04:36.950 Unfortunately, island is very small, so we can't grow all our food. 68 00:04:37.350 --> 00:04:40.150 Otherwise we're quite self resilient. Water and energy 69 00:04:41.170 --> 00:04:44.930 self producing. That makes you very like 70 00:04:45.250 --> 00:04:47.810 independent. I like to compare it to. 71 00:04:50.130 --> 00:04:53.930 What. Do you call that? Organic, like organic milk. To make your own 72 00:04:53.930 --> 00:04:57.570 energy and make your own water, it's like drinking organic milk. It's like, 73 00:04:57.810 --> 00:05:01.490 it's organic energy. It's very fulfilling to make your own 74 00:05:01.650 --> 00:05:04.210 water and energy. It just makes me feel good and happy. 75 00:05:05.330 --> 00:05:08.490 Yeah, I mean, I would imagine. And this is just me thinking off the top 76 00:05:08.490 --> 00:05:12.470 of my head here in this dystopian future where being off grid and being in 77 00:05:12.470 --> 00:05:15.030 island living is important, 78 00:05:16.470 --> 00:05:20.390 food is probably the easiest thing to come by. Whereas power, water, 79 00:05:21.030 --> 00:05:24.670 lighting, safety is probably the hardest thing to 80 00:05:24.670 --> 00:05:27.590 guarantee. And you're on an island, you could defend it. 81 00:05:28.230 --> 00:05:31.990 Definitely. We actually moved back during the pandemic. So 82 00:05:32.310 --> 00:05:35.670 if you live on an island, per definition you're in quarantine from the rest of 83 00:05:35.670 --> 00:05:38.800 the world. So Frederic, as you said, you're a 84 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:42.560 worked across. I don't know, you Said this bit says in the notes you worked 85 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:46.080 across 75 countries. I know you are a global professional speaker and you've worked in 86 00:05:46.080 --> 00:05:49.600 the HR space for most of your career. So 87 00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:53.480 when did you put that two and two together where you realised that 88 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:57.440 diversity is important, creativity, in fact, it's the 89 00:05:57.440 --> 00:06:01.440 essential building block of it. Yeah, I was reflecting about that a bit when I 90 00:06:01.440 --> 00:06:04.720 know he's going to have this. I haven't really thought so much about the connection 91 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:08.550 with diversity and creativity before. So I hope this will be a good conversation. 92 00:06:08.860 --> 00:06:12.020 Like you're going to get me to think out loud about things I normally haven't 93 00:06:12.020 --> 00:06:15.860 reflected on. So I kind of like that. I 94 00:06:15.860 --> 00:06:19.460 mean, from a broad philosophical point of view, creativity in 95 00:06:19.460 --> 00:06:23.340 itself is diversity. Right. If you think about it, 96 00:06:23.340 --> 00:06:27.340 because it's about doing things differently and differently in the meaning. Differently, 97 00:06:27.420 --> 00:06:31.420 meaning better. Right. There is this saying, when all think alike, no one 98 00:06:31.420 --> 00:06:35.100 thinks very much. Which I had as a quote in my first book and I 99 00:06:35.100 --> 00:06:38.660 just love that quote. It was one of my favourite quotes. So this idea that 100 00:06:38.660 --> 00:06:42.280 there are many, many different ways of doing things is. And then that is. 101 00:06:42.440 --> 00:06:45.960 And that is an advantage is to me what diversity is all about. 102 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:50.240 That there's different ways of doing things. But you 103 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:53.760 asked me what was the point? I have this one moment. Maybe one of the 104 00:06:53.760 --> 00:06:57.480 most decisive moments in my Life is In 2005, 105 00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:01.480 I left Sweden. I have a very successful career in Sweden. I was 106 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:04.720 speaker of the Year in Sweden. Everything was going fine, but I guess it was 107 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:08.350 a midlife crisis. I said, you know, there must be more to world 108 00:07:08.590 --> 00:07:11.630 to life than this. So I dropped everything I had in Sweden and I moved 109 00:07:11.630 --> 00:07:15.590 to China without knowing Chinese, without knowing the Chinese culture. And I became a speaker 110 00:07:15.590 --> 00:07:19.470 in China. But the moment happened a couple of weeks in because 111 00:07:19.470 --> 00:07:23.310 I didn't know a single person in Beijing. I was totally alone 112 00:07:23.630 --> 00:07:26.830 and I would go to. And I couldn't speak the language. I would go into 113 00:07:26.830 --> 00:07:30.630 a restaurant and I would order food and because I couldn't read the menu, I 114 00:07:30.630 --> 00:07:34.470 would just point at three things, hoping knowing that one of them I couldn't 115 00:07:34.470 --> 00:07:38.130 eat, but the other two I could eat and then I'll eat that. But when 116 00:07:38.130 --> 00:07:42.090 they served me the food they gave me because also they couldn't talk to me. 117 00:07:42.330 --> 00:07:45.810 They served me. They served the food and gave me a fork, a knife, a 118 00:07:45.810 --> 00:07:49.690 spoon, chopsticks and a Chinese spoon. And they gave me all of that 119 00:07:49.690 --> 00:07:53.330 because they didn't know how I wanted to eat it. And because I didn't know 120 00:07:53.330 --> 00:07:57.210 the dishes, I didn't know how to eat it. So for the first time in 121 00:07:57.210 --> 00:08:00.930 my life, I had no culture around me 122 00:08:00.930 --> 00:08:04.540 telling me how I was supposed to do something. So I 123 00:08:04.540 --> 00:08:07.900 decided how I wanted to eat this dish, no one else. 124 00:08:08.300 --> 00:08:11.900 And it's hard to describe. It was such a liberating 125 00:08:11.900 --> 00:08:15.740 feeling to not have this. This is how you do it, 126 00:08:15.740 --> 00:08:19.500 thing around it. And I felt so pure. I felt so 127 00:08:19.660 --> 00:08:23.620 myself. And I said, okay, so, Frederik, how do you think you want to eat 128 00:08:23.620 --> 00:08:27.260 this dish? And that's when I felt, I'm gonna be me. 129 00:08:27.260 --> 00:08:31.020 And I felt, if ever I hope everyone could have a 130 00:08:31.020 --> 00:08:34.690 moment like that and say, I just want to be me, and then you can 131 00:08:34.690 --> 00:08:38.450 go back into the culture again with that feeling. I had a very similar 132 00:08:38.610 --> 00:08:42.330 experience. I worked in Zurich for a while, and my 133 00:08:42.330 --> 00:08:46.290 German is minimalistic. And like you, I was eating out. Okay. I was with a 134 00:08:46.290 --> 00:08:50.090 group of friends. I wasn't on my own. And we were probably quite lucky 135 00:08:50.090 --> 00:08:53.810 that in Switzerland, most people speak a bit of English anyway. 136 00:08:54.050 --> 00:08:57.010 But I was ordering off the menu and I had this, 137 00:08:57.970 --> 00:09:01.250 you know, you could think about pork, chicken, beef, you know, 138 00:09:01.730 --> 00:09:05.410 the main food animals, if you like. I remember ordering pork 139 00:09:06.050 --> 00:09:09.410 and what I thought was pork, and in came this pig 140 00:09:09.410 --> 00:09:13.330 trotter, complete with the trotter and the whole 141 00:09:13.570 --> 00:09:17.410 bottom of the leg. I looked at it and thought, yeah, it's pork pick, 142 00:09:17.490 --> 00:09:20.690 not as we know it. So I know exactly what I mean. You're ordering stuff 143 00:09:20.690 --> 00:09:24.050 by what you think and guessing and pointing and think, now what do I do 144 00:09:24.050 --> 00:09:27.650 with this? So I learned pretty quickly that chicken was probably safest. 145 00:09:27.730 --> 00:09:31.700 Or veal. Yeah, yeah. I ate a lot of veal 146 00:09:31.780 --> 00:09:35.660 and Zurich. But, yeah, no, that's fascinating. It's almost like we 147 00:09:35.660 --> 00:09:39.220 hear this Storey about, how do you explain something to a Martian who has no 148 00:09:39.780 --> 00:09:43.460 concept of anything to do with the Earth? How do you 149 00:09:43.460 --> 00:09:47.420 explain something to somebody? And that must be a real novelty, not having 150 00:09:47.420 --> 00:09:51.340 any connection to what you're ordering or what you're doing. Yeah. But the other part 151 00:09:51.340 --> 00:09:55.140 is also that the fact that maybe the way you think things should be done 152 00:09:55.140 --> 00:09:58.700 is wrong. So the other aspect of this was because I married a 153 00:09:58.700 --> 00:10:02.400 Filipina, so I'm from Sweden and she's from the Philippines, and we lived in 154 00:10:02.400 --> 00:10:06.240 Singapore and then we had kids. And then the question became, 155 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:10.240 so how are we going to raise the kids? Because if I married a Swedish 156 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:13.560 person and lived in Sweden, we would raise them Swedish. I mean, no discussion. 157 00:10:14.040 --> 00:10:17.360 But now we had to talk about it. Are we doing Swedish way or Filipino 158 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:20.960 way? Because they are very different ways of raising children. For 159 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.760 example, in Sweden, we do not hit our kids. I was never hit, not once 160 00:10:24.760 --> 00:10:27.680 by my parents. And we were the first country in the world to make it 161 00:10:27.680 --> 00:10:31.420 illegal to hit children. And in the Philippines it's technically illegal to hit 162 00:10:31.420 --> 00:10:35.100 kids, but almost everyone does it and my wife was beaten as a kid. 163 00:10:35.740 --> 00:10:38.300 So now we have children. Are we going to hit them or are we not 164 00:10:38.300 --> 00:10:41.860 going to hit them? Right. And now we have. We can't just say, let's do 165 00:10:41.860 --> 00:10:45.300 like we normally do. We have to argue for our point of view and we 166 00:10:45.300 --> 00:10:48.660 have to decide one of them. And in this case, we decided not to hit 167 00:10:48.660 --> 00:10:51.980 them. She was the first person in her family ever to not hit her children. 168 00:10:52.780 --> 00:10:56.340 On the other hand, in the Philippines they have respect for old people. In Sweden, 169 00:10:56.340 --> 00:10:59.580 we don't really have that. We've lost that. So we took the best from the 170 00:10:59.580 --> 00:11:03.440 Philippines. Now, the. The point here is that every little aspect of 171 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:07.440 parenting, we had to question it and say, is this really the best way to 172 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:11.000 do it or is there, apparently there's another way of doing it, or there's a 173 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:13.720 third way of doing it, which is a Singaporean way. And when you start to 174 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:16.839 think like that, you realise, wait a minute, there are hundreds and hundreds of different 175 00:11:16.839 --> 00:11:20.680 ways to raise a child and I should take the best of them. So it's 176 00:11:20.680 --> 00:11:24.480 another way of getting you to realise that what you think is the way to 177 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:28.400 do it is not the one. It's such a liberating feeling when you get 178 00:11:28.400 --> 00:11:31.880 rid of that weight on your shoulder, saying, this is how things are supposed to 179 00:11:31.880 --> 00:11:35.610 be. Yeah, you see it in our modern connected 180 00:11:35.690 --> 00:11:39.650 Facebook, social media world. Everyone has an opinion. So it's 181 00:11:39.650 --> 00:11:43.570 very easy to crowdsource different views, isn't it? It's trying to 182 00:11:43.570 --> 00:11:46.730 make sense of some of those views and also 183 00:11:47.290 --> 00:11:51.210 being open to listening to those perspectives is the hard bit. Because we 184 00:11:51.210 --> 00:11:53.690 all want to be right. We all want to have our own opinions, don't we? 185 00:11:53.850 --> 00:11:57.850 Yeah, exactly. No, it's very hard. To be able to change your 186 00:11:57.850 --> 00:12:01.780 opinion, I think is a sign of intelligence, actually. Or not 187 00:12:01.780 --> 00:12:05.260 be wedded to it in the first place is the hard thing, isn't it? It's 188 00:12:05.260 --> 00:12:08.940 being able to change it must mean you're open to it not being right in 189 00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:12.220 the first place. But we get invested in being right a lot of the time. 190 00:12:12.220 --> 00:12:16.060 Yes. And that is, to me, that's curiosity. 191 00:12:16.060 --> 00:12:19.340 To be curious about other people, other ways 192 00:12:19.900 --> 00:12:23.780 there might be a curiosity is the one thing that gives you the 193 00:12:23.780 --> 00:12:27.380 open mindedness and then open mindedness give you the ability to change. So the key 194 00:12:27.380 --> 00:12:31.180 is actually curiosity. Yeah. We got a new 195 00:12:31.180 --> 00:12:35.180 dog, a puppy, about three, four months ago. And it's taught me a 196 00:12:35.180 --> 00:12:38.460 whole new perspective on parenting, leadership, 197 00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:42.380 everything. Because you have to start with a rule. The puppy doesn't know any different. 198 00:12:42.380 --> 00:12:46.260 The puppy is just a puppy. Yeah. So if it's doing something you don't want 199 00:12:46.260 --> 00:12:50.100 it to do, it's because you haven't set the environment to 200 00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:54.060 prevent the puppy doing something you didn't want it to do. It's an 201 00:12:54.060 --> 00:12:58.050 excellent lesson in personal accountability and patience 202 00:12:58.210 --> 00:13:02.130 and understanding that you go, yep, my fault. 203 00:13:02.530 --> 00:13:06.130 Yep, my fault. You bit me. That was my fault. 204 00:13:06.210 --> 00:13:09.970 And the puppy is never vindictive. So it's really 205 00:13:09.970 --> 00:13:13.890 taught me a new dynamic on humans and how we interact with each other. 206 00:13:13.890 --> 00:13:17.850 That, okay, I've now got to take personal accountability. What could I do differently 207 00:13:17.850 --> 00:13:21.410 to influence this in a different way? Yeah. And I love that because 208 00:13:21.970 --> 00:13:25.570 you're not blaming the dog for biting. I mean, you're not blaming, but 209 00:13:25.730 --> 00:13:29.550 it's not. Blaming is not the right word. But you're taking accountability for. 210 00:13:29.790 --> 00:13:33.590 Yeah, what did I do? Because so that the dog bit me. I 211 00:13:33.590 --> 00:13:37.350 think that's a, a lot of times people should, should use that 212 00:13:37.350 --> 00:13:41.350 approach when they get annoyed at stuff. Yeah. And I, I can, I 213 00:13:41.350 --> 00:13:45.150 know now that our puppy will become very wired, that you can tell their 214 00:13:45.150 --> 00:13:49.110 brain is in that sort of reactive hyper mode. So I 215 00:13:49.110 --> 00:13:52.830 know at that point there, she's going to bite, going to be jumpy, she's going 216 00:13:52.830 --> 00:13:56.560 to be all over the place. So how do I de escalate her? And again, 217 00:13:56.720 --> 00:14:00.600 it's about moving from the prefrontal cortex back here to the logical thinking. 218 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:04.240 So you calm her down. Don't try and interact with emotion until she's in the 219 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:08.160 right place. And it's typical human lessons. We talk about all the 220 00:14:08.160 --> 00:14:11.440 time about our brains and how we have to connect with people. 221 00:14:12.800 --> 00:14:16.720 She is definitely teaching me in a different plane. And I recommend anybody who's 222 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:20.650 listened to get a puppy if you want to understand human interactions 223 00:14:20.650 --> 00:14:24.450 better. And also because they do not speak and we also have a 224 00:14:24.450 --> 00:14:28.290 dog. The whole idea of being able to read is a body language. 225 00:14:28.290 --> 00:14:31.450 It's all, it all. It's so much body language and energy. 226 00:14:32.170 --> 00:14:36.010 You have to learn how to sense energy. Yeah. And just be 227 00:14:36.010 --> 00:14:39.930 aware. Please don't talk about, talk about my puppy for the 228 00:14:39.930 --> 00:14:43.730 whole episode. But when she needs to do things, she wants 229 00:14:43.730 --> 00:14:47.540 feeding, she wants water, she wants to go outside. She has a 230 00:14:47.540 --> 00:14:50.180 way now of just sitting there looking at you and you go, and you've got 231 00:14:50.180 --> 00:14:53.020 to pick up on that body language because if you wait for it to say, 232 00:14:53.260 --> 00:14:55.580 tap you on the shoulder and say, oh, yeah, I need to go outside. She's 233 00:14:55.580 --> 00:14:58.940 never, it's never going to happen. But she will, she now, she's now learned. So 234 00:14:58.940 --> 00:15:02.460 it's, it's a fascinating lesson in just 235 00:15:02.780 --> 00:15:06.540 connecting with a culture that you've got no common language on. 236 00:15:06.540 --> 00:15:10.460 Yeah, exactly. Which is the same kind of way when you travel to a country 237 00:15:10.460 --> 00:15:13.780 where you don't speak the language. You do the same thing, you need to observe 238 00:15:13.780 --> 00:15:17.650 the cues. But yeah, as I said earlier, the struggle here 239 00:15:17.730 --> 00:15:20.450 is trying to get people to be open to that 240 00:15:21.090 --> 00:15:24.770 opportunity to learn more and not want to bring their. 241 00:15:24.850 --> 00:15:28.210 We see this, tourists go to a country and want to eat their local food 242 00:15:28.210 --> 00:15:31.930 wherever they travel and it's. They're not willing to explore something, oh, I couldn't eat 243 00:15:31.930 --> 00:15:35.810 octopus or I couldn't eat this or I couldn't eat that. Oh, and people 244 00:15:35.810 --> 00:15:39.170 get really fixated on. They want to, they actually just want to, they want to 245 00:15:39.170 --> 00:15:42.790 be somewhere else but with a micro part of home with them, don't they? 246 00:15:42.870 --> 00:15:45.990 Yeah, I mean, yeah, there are a lot of Chinese restaurants right next to the 247 00:15:45.990 --> 00:15:49.990 Eiffel Tower. Yes, yeah, yeah. And 248 00:15:49.990 --> 00:15:53.910 I remember travelling with my parents in law and they're very much a traditional 249 00:15:53.910 --> 00:15:57.710 English roast beef, Yorkshire pudding type family 250 00:15:57.710 --> 00:16:00.670 and that's what they were looking for. So you miss out on all the culture 251 00:16:00.670 --> 00:16:04.470 and the diverse foods and the opportunity to explore things. Yeah, 252 00:16:05.030 --> 00:16:08.790 some people are just like that. I have a friend who has a friend who, 253 00:16:10.010 --> 00:16:13.570 he hasn't tried any new food since he was 15. He said, When I was 254 00:16:13.570 --> 00:16:16.450 15 I knew what food I liked and what I didn't like. And since then 255 00:16:16.450 --> 00:16:20.210 that's. He only eats the food that he had tried and liked before at the 256 00:16:20.210 --> 00:16:23.690 age of 15. So there you go missing out. 257 00:16:24.090 --> 00:16:27.930 How does this really intersect then with the. We think about problem solving, 258 00:16:27.930 --> 00:16:31.290 creativity. Where is this the foundation of those. 259 00:16:31.690 --> 00:16:35.560 That's why, I mean the curiosity is the antidote to, to 260 00:16:35.560 --> 00:16:38.960 this. Because then that's what you will say, oh, I wonder what this is. I 261 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:42.960 wonder what it tastes like. Right. So if I. In Icelandic the 262 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:46.440 word for curious is for witten, for means before. 263 00:16:46.520 --> 00:16:50.160 Witten means knowledge. So basically what they're saying is that the word 264 00:16:50.160 --> 00:16:53.880 curious means that which comes before knowledge. Right. 265 00:16:54.520 --> 00:16:58.000 So you need to be curious. If you want to expand your knowledge about the 266 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:00.800 world, you first need to be curious. I think it's a very beautiful way of 267 00:17:00.800 --> 00:17:04.780 looking at curiosity. Yeah. But also they have. In Iceland, they 268 00:17:04.780 --> 00:17:08.620 have this beautiful word which I love. It's called heimskir. And 269 00:17:08.620 --> 00:17:11.740 heimskjr literally means moron or stupid person. 270 00:17:12.540 --> 00:17:16.420 And it's an old, old Viking word from like a thousand 271 00:17:16.420 --> 00:17:20.420 years ago. And if you were a Viking, you're supposed to sail south and steal 272 00:17:20.420 --> 00:17:24.220 as much as you could, you know, gold and silver and 273 00:17:24.220 --> 00:17:28.100 whatever. But more importantly, you're supposed to steal ideas. And 274 00:17:28.100 --> 00:17:31.780 you see, how do they farm in Denmark, how do they make weapons in 275 00:17:31.780 --> 00:17:34.720 Turkey and so on. And you take those ide and you bring it back to 276 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:38.040 Iceland to your own farm. If you didn't do that, 277 00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:43.120 you were a heimscher. You were a moron. You're a stupid person. So this 278 00:17:43.120 --> 00:17:47.080 idea of leaving your home, and haim means home, it's the word for home. 279 00:17:47.320 --> 00:17:51.080 So basically the word etymology of the word is that 280 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:55.080 the person who always stays at home becomes stupid. You need to leave. I 281 00:17:55.080 --> 00:17:58.960 think it's beautiful. I think it's great. I visited Iceland for 282 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:02.900 about a week back in the 90s, and I don't know if you've 283 00:18:02.900 --> 00:18:06.820 obviously been there. We had this delicacy, this putrefied shark. 284 00:18:07.220 --> 00:18:10.220 Yes, I have that too. Isn't that the one that's ranked one of the most 285 00:18:10.220 --> 00:18:13.620 disgusting foods in the world? It is, yeah. You have to drink. You have to 286 00:18:13.620 --> 00:18:17.300 drink, Brennan. When you're. When you're eating the shark, obviously the antidote, it's Brennovan. But 287 00:18:17.300 --> 00:18:20.020 I remember them telling the storey. Cause we were. We were there with some. Look, 288 00:18:20.020 --> 00:18:23.540 with some friends and they were telling the storey about this shark. Apparently 289 00:18:23.780 --> 00:18:27.300 they catch these sharks by mistake, I thought. Oh, yeah, right. Yeah. 290 00:18:28.740 --> 00:18:31.620 And then you have to. You strip the fat off and you bury the shark 291 00:18:31.620 --> 00:18:35.540 for like six months or something. And then you hang it up for six months 292 00:18:35.540 --> 00:18:38.740 before it's. Before it's edible. If you. If you don't bury it and you don't 293 00:18:38.740 --> 00:18:42.420 hang it up, it's poisonous. There's too much urea or something in the fat. 294 00:18:42.980 --> 00:18:46.620 I thought, how do you discover that? How do you know that six months is 295 00:18:46.620 --> 00:18:50.100 the right amount of time to hang it and to bury it without killing you? 296 00:18:50.100 --> 00:18:52.900 Yeah. So you talk about the curiosity from an Icelandic point of view. And they 297 00:18:52.900 --> 00:18:56.070 must. They must have done a lot of curious foresight thinking. 298 00:18:56.710 --> 00:19:00.710 Yeah. Or. Or just a chance someone, you know, someone buried it because. 299 00:19:00.710 --> 00:19:04.110 And then suddenly forgot about it. Say, hey, wait, we found this and you had 300 00:19:04.110 --> 00:19:06.830 nothing else to eat. And Then you had to eat that and you didn't. There 301 00:19:06.830 --> 00:19:10.630 is a. There's a beautiful. Because a lot of. I've also tried it. It's disgusting, 302 00:19:10.630 --> 00:19:14.470 I think. But there is a museum in 303 00:19:14.470 --> 00:19:18.470 Malm in the south of Sweden. It's called the Museum of 304 00:19:18.470 --> 00:19:22.350 Disgusting Foods, something like that. And you go in there 305 00:19:22.350 --> 00:19:26.270 and they have an exhibition of disgusting foods from all around the world. In 306 00:19:26.270 --> 00:19:30.030 Sweden, we have a fermented herring, which actually tastes even worse 307 00:19:30.030 --> 00:19:33.430 than the Iceland one. But I went there 308 00:19:33.830 --> 00:19:37.430 and the funny thing with this museum is they showed you can actually taste it. 309 00:19:37.430 --> 00:19:41.150 So they have a tasting menu so you can taste disgusting foods from around the 310 00:19:41.150 --> 00:19:43.990 world. Like tiny bits of it. You have like 311 00:19:44.950 --> 00:19:47.830 20 different things. You get to try just a tiny bit of each. 312 00:19:48.820 --> 00:19:52.780 But when before, and I tried all of it before you start 313 00:19:52.780 --> 00:19:56.660 tasting, they tell you that we have chosen food that 314 00:19:56.660 --> 00:20:00.660 in some in the culture it comes from, it is considered a delicacy. 315 00:20:00.660 --> 00:20:04.460 They haven't chosen food that someone has created just to be 316 00:20:04.460 --> 00:20:07.700 disgusting. Somewhere in the world someone finds this yummy. 317 00:20:08.340 --> 00:20:12.340 And it was such a big change for me to try it because when 318 00:20:12.340 --> 00:20:16.030 I tried all of this different things, suddenly I could 319 00:20:16.030 --> 00:20:19.470 enjoy it because I said someone finds this 320 00:20:20.030 --> 00:20:23.990 yummy. So let's assume it is. And then it became much easier 321 00:20:23.990 --> 00:20:27.550 to eat versus, oh, you have to try this disgusting thing from the Philippines. 322 00:20:27.710 --> 00:20:31.510 No, it's not. It's. This is a delicacy in the Philippines. But we find it 323 00:20:31.510 --> 00:20:35.350 weird. I once saw a map of eating horse and in 324 00:20:35.350 --> 00:20:39.110 which countries eating horse is a delicacy, in which countries eating horse 325 00:20:39.110 --> 00:20:43.030 is considered, you know, weird. And it's just. It's 326 00:20:43.030 --> 00:20:46.710 just some humans have decided it's delicacy. Some people have decided it's 327 00:20:46.710 --> 00:20:50.550 weird. It's. It's strange how we decide these things. I guess it depends on how 328 00:20:50.550 --> 00:20:54.510 hungry you are and how you feel natural. If someone says 329 00:20:54.510 --> 00:20:57.390 horse is a delicacy and you grow up with that, you're going to think it's 330 00:20:57.390 --> 00:21:01.310 a delicacy. Yeah, I've seen that. I've seen a chart where you 331 00:21:01.310 --> 00:21:05.190 have all these animals in a row. And where do you draw the line? 332 00:21:05.190 --> 00:21:08.910 Where what is food? What is. Peter? Yeah. Different 333 00:21:08.910 --> 00:21:12.870 cultures will draw that line in different places. You know, a rabbit. Yeah. A 334 00:21:12.870 --> 00:21:15.470 mouse, A rat. A horse, a cow. 335 00:21:17.150 --> 00:21:21.150 So what's the difference between a horse and a cow? They're both large 336 00:21:21.150 --> 00:21:24.990 animals and they're both edible. We decided the horse isn't. Cow is. 337 00:21:24.990 --> 00:21:28.670 But then you have all the other. You have vegetarian, pescatarian and all these other 338 00:21:28.750 --> 00:21:32.670 versions also within the country of or you have religious reasons for why you can't 339 00:21:32.670 --> 00:21:36.470 eat something or not eat something. And it's all good. Like I have, I have. 340 00:21:36.550 --> 00:21:40.390 My version of this is there's only two people in the world who do. Who 341 00:21:40.390 --> 00:21:44.230 is what I am. I'm an eatarian only 342 00:21:44.230 --> 00:21:48.230 me and my daughter. So what does an eatarian mean? It means I 343 00:21:48.230 --> 00:21:51.830 only eat meat. I eat meat, but I only eat meat 344 00:21:51.990 --> 00:21:55.910 from animals who kill. I don't eat vegetarian, 345 00:21:55.910 --> 00:21:59.910 non violent animals. So, for example, I can eat the lion because 346 00:21:59.910 --> 00:22:03.720 the lion eats the zebra, but I cannot eat the zebra because the zebra doesn't 347 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:06.680 kill anyone, it just eats grass. So why. 348 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:12.000 The moral logic here is why should I kill something that doesn't 349 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.960 kill anything? But if something kills, I can also kill it. So 350 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:19.640 I can eat most fishes and most seafood and I can 351 00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:23.560 basically cannot eat horse, cow, lamb, goat, 352 00:22:23.560 --> 00:22:27.360 a few of those. So dog, cat, absolutely fine. 353 00:22:27.360 --> 00:22:30.800 Because they kill and eat. I can eat dog and cat. I don't. I tried 354 00:22:30.800 --> 00:22:34.320 dog once in North Korea, but I don't eat cat. I mean, it means I 355 00:22:34.320 --> 00:22:38.160 can't. I could eat someone. Some people usually say, oh, so you can eat human? 356 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.720 I say I could eat human. I don't want. For other reasons. I don't eat 357 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:45.520 humans, but I can't technically eat a vegetarian or 358 00:22:45.520 --> 00:22:49.080 vegan. Yeah, that's right. So I've got to become vegetarian. So 359 00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:53.200 I'm safe in Frederick's company. It's not about I have to eat animals who kill. 360 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:56.780 I'm saying I'm not going to eat animals who doesn't kill. That's the rule. Yeah, 361 00:22:56.780 --> 00:23:00.500 yeah, I've had, I've had crocodile in. I think it's in Australia. I had crocodile 362 00:23:00.500 --> 00:23:04.380 over there. Yeah, I've, I've had that too. It's. And the 363 00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:08.220 crocodile definitely kills. Yeah, that's. That's 364 00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:12.020 really interesting. Yeah, I suppose I like the fact. That I'm the only one, but 365 00:23:12.020 --> 00:23:15.860 then my daughter copied me, so now we're two. I like because it means I 366 00:23:15.860 --> 00:23:19.260 made up the rule for what I can and cannot eat. No, I didn't follow 367 00:23:19.580 --> 00:23:23.540 a book or a scripture or, or a cultural rule or something. 368 00:23:23.540 --> 00:23:27.540 I made up my very, very own. So most of the time you're, 369 00:23:27.540 --> 00:23:31.300 you would call yourself vegetarian. That, that has meat from a 370 00:23:31.300 --> 00:23:35.220 ethically sourced source in your book. Sorry, sorry, I 371 00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:39.220 didn't hear you. Generally, you're generally a vegetarian, but you also 372 00:23:39.620 --> 00:23:43.380 eat fish? No, I eat chicken and I eat pork and I eat 373 00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:47.220 fish and I, I Meet most animals, actually. I mean, the whole idea is that 374 00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:51.180 most animals kill. If you look at nature. Chickens are 375 00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:54.550 carnivorous, Are they? Or they. They kill other things, don't they? They eat worms. 376 00:23:55.990 --> 00:23:59.830 Okay, all right, so worm. Okay, that's good point. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, 377 00:24:00.390 --> 00:24:04.270 yeah. Okay. Pickling worms. Yeah. Any kind of as. As long as 378 00:24:04.270 --> 00:24:08.190 the animal eats another animal, it kills. And if that animal kills 379 00:24:08.190 --> 00:24:12.150 it should be fine with me killing it. That's the logic. Okay, yeah. 380 00:24:12.230 --> 00:24:15.430 Pigs will eat anything as well, won't they? They'll. They will. They will. They will. 381 00:24:15.590 --> 00:24:19.190 Yeah. They will definitely kill to eat, but they often. They also eat. 382 00:24:19.430 --> 00:24:23.340 They eat all kind. They basically eat everything. Yeah, yeah, 383 00:24:24.380 --> 00:24:28.300 yeah. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. There's a logic. Whereas a horse and a cow. 384 00:24:28.460 --> 00:24:32.460 Horse and a cow are generally only killed by mistake. Eating a worm while they're 385 00:24:32.460 --> 00:24:36.220 eating the grass. Yeah. I can also eat. I could eat a non. I can 386 00:24:36.220 --> 00:24:40.100 eat a vegetarian animal by mistake, which happens sometimes. Someone gives me a 387 00:24:40.100 --> 00:24:43.540 soup and I say, is this. This cow or pork? And they say, it's pork. 388 00:24:43.540 --> 00:24:46.740 And then later I find out it's beef. I don't feel bad about it. I 389 00:24:46.740 --> 00:24:50.570 ate it by mistake. I can eat anything by mistake. Anyone can eat something by 390 00:24:50.570 --> 00:24:54.530 mistake. That's the difference. But to properly say I'm going to kill to eat you, 391 00:24:54.690 --> 00:24:58.290 that's a very different mentality. And I like to have the 392 00:24:58.290 --> 00:25:02.130 peaceful mentality of not eating those peaceful animals. 393 00:25:02.450 --> 00:25:06.370 It gives me a lot of karma. Yeah. I think it's a great. 394 00:25:06.610 --> 00:25:10.490 It's a great rule set. I think it's brilliant. But I like it mostly 395 00:25:10.490 --> 00:25:14.410 because it's a rule set I made up. No one told me that this is 396 00:25:14.410 --> 00:25:17.170 how you're supposed to eat. I made up my rules and then I follow that. 397 00:25:17.320 --> 00:25:21.160 Yeah. You see, my natural thinking would be that vegetarian side of animals, 398 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:25.000 the meat is healthier. But that's 399 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:28.920 my belief. I have no fact to prove that, right or wrong. But I guess 400 00:25:29.320 --> 00:25:32.720 with so much factory farming these days, what is. What is a health. What is 401 00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:36.720