WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.320 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary 2 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.200 for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, 3 00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:18.720 your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 4 00:00:18.720 --> 00:00:22.640 inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. 5 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:27.040 Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone 6 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:30.760 not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. 7 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:35.200 Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge 8 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.760 the status quo and share storeys that resonate 9 00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:42.480 deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're 10 00:00:42.480 --> 00:00:46.400 sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's 11 00:00:46.400 --> 00:00:50.360 connect, reflect and inspire action together. 12 00:00:51.080 --> 00:00:54.870 Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out 13 00:00:54.870 --> 00:00:58.670 to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk 14 00:00:59.070 --> 00:01:02.590 to share your insights or to join me on the show. 15 00:01:03.470 --> 00:01:07.230 So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 16 00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:10.830 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 17 00:01:15.870 --> 00:01:19.810 And today is episode 210 with 18 00:01:19.810 --> 00:01:23.330 the title Fear as a Superpower. 19 00:01:23.650 --> 00:01:27.250 And I have the absolute honour and Privilege to welcome Dr. Gwen 20 00:01:27.250 --> 00:01:31.210 Petrone. Gwen is a former US Marine sergeant, 21 00:01:31.210 --> 00:01:35.170 author and coach who supports gender diverse people to transform 22 00:01:35.249 --> 00:01:39.090 fear, anxiety and dysphoria into strengths 23 00:01:39.250 --> 00:01:43.130 that shape resilience and self belief. When I asked Gwen 24 00:01:43.130 --> 00:01:46.940 to describe her superpower, she said it is her ability to 25 00:01:46.940 --> 00:01:50.420 see fear in slow motion. I love that. And 26 00:01:50.420 --> 00:01:54.300 repurpose it from something that debilitates into something that 27 00:01:54.300 --> 00:01:58.140 creates strength, clarity and growth. Hello, Gwen, 28 00:01:58.140 --> 00:02:01.940 welcome to the show. Hey, Jo, good to see you. Good. I'll say good morning 29 00:02:01.940 --> 00:02:05.780 here in Florida and hi everybody. Still good morning here in the uk. So 30 00:02:05.940 --> 00:02:09.820 we're both the same side of the midday at the moment for another 10 31 00:02:09.820 --> 00:02:13.700 minutes. So Florida, the Sunshine 32 00:02:13.700 --> 00:02:17.540 State, is it, is it sunny there today? It is currently sun 33 00:02:17.540 --> 00:02:21.340 coming up, so it'll be sunny soon. Thank goodness. It's so cold out right now. 34 00:02:21.340 --> 00:02:25.260 Cold is all relative. So our whole country is going through a big deep 35 00:02:25.260 --> 00:02:29.180 freeze over the last week. But in Florida, you know, it warms up a 36 00:02:29.180 --> 00:02:32.140 little bit, so. So I love it. I used to be in New York City. 37 00:02:32.140 --> 00:02:36.140 So all the, the winter and the cold and the snow and the northeast kind 38 00:02:36.140 --> 00:02:38.980 of stuff, I got over that after so many years. I just said, I'm getting 39 00:02:38.980 --> 00:02:41.420 out of here, I'm going down south, I want to be warmer. 40 00:02:42.760 --> 00:02:46.160 Oh, 35 years in New York. I moved to Florida about five years ago. Yeah, 41 00:02:46.160 --> 00:02:49.960 because I remember being in New York in, in the November time. 42 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.720 I think it was just after Thanksgiving one year and I was surprised how 43 00:02:53.720 --> 00:02:57.240 bitterly cold it was. You know, the, the wind that whistles through the 44 00:02:57.240 --> 00:03:01.200 skyscrapers, the just the temperature and considering was it New York 45 00:03:01.200 --> 00:03:04.760 is south of Paris. It's, it's, it's quite a way south even from the uk. 46 00:03:04.920 --> 00:03:08.880 It's a lot colder than I was expecting. Well, what happens is you have. 47 00:03:08.880 --> 00:03:12.720 New York is very vertical, right? Yes. So if you get the wind in just 48 00:03:12.720 --> 00:03:16.340 the right angle, it' just shoot down the corridors of the streets, whether 49 00:03:16.340 --> 00:03:19.740 it's the avenues or the streets, and it'll pick up speed and just focus. Right. 50 00:03:19.740 --> 00:03:23.700 It's a big wind tunnel in certain areas. So yeah, I used to like to 51 00:03:23.700 --> 00:03:27.460 walk around Central park, which is really very beautiful and many, many 52 00:03:27.460 --> 00:03:31.220 times. And you get that, you get that wind because it's over there. There's no 53 00:03:31.220 --> 00:03:34.940 building. So it'll, it'll just pick up speed and get a nice breeze. So. 54 00:03:34.940 --> 00:03:38.940 Yeah, I mean, it's like the Pogue song, isn't it? Fairytale in New York at 55 00:03:38.940 --> 00:03:42.940 Christmas time. It's a very magical city at Christmas with all the lights in the 56 00:03:42.940 --> 00:03:46.760 trees. And the, it's, it's Christmas time and. Thanks. Living time is 57 00:03:46.760 --> 00:03:50.720 beautiful. Except about an hour after it snows, then it gets dirty. 58 00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:55.560 Yes, it gets dirty real quick when it's snowing and, or icing or 59 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:59.400 whatever. It looks really, really, really beautiful. And then you have Rockefeller 60 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:03.120 Centre with a tree and, and all the lights and all the, the shopping and 61 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:07.040 it's, it's a magical time. But as you say, you're 62 00:04:07.040 --> 00:04:10.440 in Florida now. And my memory of Florida was back in, I think it's 63 00:04:10.440 --> 00:04:14.240 2004, when I, I took our family for a standard 64 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:18.040 Disney experience, Universal Studios. I remember 65 00:04:18.280 --> 00:04:22.160 my biggest memory of the time was the humidity was the 66 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:26.120 first thing that really struck me. But also the lightning, the thunder 67 00:04:26.120 --> 00:04:29.880 and lightning, the fault lightning, the power of that 68 00:04:29.880 --> 00:04:33.760 nature that was going on overhead. But you must 69 00:04:33.760 --> 00:04:37.480 have gone in July or August or something. It was, it's probably July time. 70 00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:41.440 Yeah. That's brutal. Yeah, June, July, August is not fun over here. But all the 71 00:04:41.440 --> 00:04:45.320 other months are great. Yes. I have a twin sister and she would 72 00:04:45.320 --> 00:04:49.080 go and have her family there and her daughter and she was the 73 00:04:49.080 --> 00:04:52.960 grandma so she had to watch all the kids. And so she was designated 74 00:04:52.960 --> 00:04:56.800 to do that. She says not doing that anymore. Not doing that anymore. No more. 75 00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:00.520 I'm the babysitter and it's humid and her and I, we don't get moist, we 76 00:05:00.520 --> 00:05:04.520 sweat. So it's just, it's just like, you know. So she says, 77 00:05:04.520 --> 00:05:08.330 no more in August, no more in July. Grandma, don't do it. Us 78 00:05:08.330 --> 00:05:12.010 Brits, we perspire. Yeah. We perspire, we don't sweat. Yes, 79 00:05:12.250 --> 00:05:15.370 right. Profusely, yes. So 80 00:05:16.010 --> 00:05:19.770 as I was reading out your superpower and I comment on the bit, 81 00:05:20.090 --> 00:05:24.050 seeing fear in slow motion, and that conjures up this vision in my 82 00:05:24.050 --> 00:05:27.330 head of that scene in the Matrix where Neo has finally 83 00:05:27.330 --> 00:05:31.090 grasped who he is, what the Matrix is all about. And he's 84 00:05:31.090 --> 00:05:35.050 now able to now cut through all of that kind of social construct and the. 85 00:05:35.420 --> 00:05:38.740 When, when was it Mr. Anderson fires a bullet at him, he's able to see 86 00:05:38.740 --> 00:05:42.540 it in slow motion as the ball holds it and stops 87 00:05:42.540 --> 00:05:46.420 and able to freeze time. Is that the metaphor that you know, that that 88 00:05:46.420 --> 00:05:50.340 creates for you as well? Yeah, it, it's, it doesn't. Normally you 89 00:05:50.340 --> 00:05:54.020 don't have something like that. It's. And this is really cultivated when I went into 90 00:05:54.020 --> 00:05:57.740 service and I was in the Marine Corps, is they, they. And that's what my, 91 00:05:57.740 --> 00:06:01.700 my book Dysphoria Hacks is really honing in on, is the lessons learned 92 00:06:01.700 --> 00:06:05.470 from that and then how you can desensitise yourself 93 00:06:05.470 --> 00:06:09.470 to certain things. So this way you don't do what it's expecting you to 94 00:06:09.470 --> 00:06:13.470 do. And then you can freeze time and slow it down. So this way you 95 00:06:13.470 --> 00:06:17.350 can see things that would normally scare other people or 96 00:06:17.430 --> 00:06:21.310 frighten other people and remould it to your purpose and thus 97 00:06:21.310 --> 00:06:24.990 use it as a positive. And thus I say see things in slow motion. 98 00:06:24.990 --> 00:06:28.990 And that comes very handy in sports. I was 99 00:06:28.990 --> 00:06:32.790 always very good in sports. Muscles. Soccer, baseball, football, everything. 100 00:06:32.870 --> 00:06:36.650 Everybody's freaking out and running, really. And I would see things in slow 101 00:06:36.650 --> 00:06:40.490 motion. I'd like looking and I'm scanning and making decisions when other people are 102 00:06:40.490 --> 00:06:44.370 freaking out. And then they're like, how did you do that? And. Well, because you 103 00:06:44.370 --> 00:06:48.330 have a. You calm down and your mind is calmer. And then the 104 00:06:48.330 --> 00:06:51.569 business, business arena. As a CEO of my own company for 105 00:06:52.130 --> 00:06:56.130 a few decades, people freaking out and everything, and you're seeing things come. You don't 106 00:06:56.130 --> 00:06:59.250 want to get too high or too low and you want to make rational decisions 107 00:06:59.490 --> 00:07:03.290 based on overall the common good of the company, so to speak. 108 00:07:03.290 --> 00:07:06.010 And so that's what I mean is seeing things in slow. The slow motion is 109 00:07:06.010 --> 00:07:09.870 you learn, analyse the situation, see what's really happening 110 00:07:10.350 --> 00:07:14.190 and then you understand what's happening to be able to repurpose it 111 00:07:14.190 --> 00:07:18.190 to your. Your purposes. Yeah. So being a Marine sergeant, do you 112 00:07:18.190 --> 00:07:22.070 see active duty? Yeah, well, I, I was in. During a 113 00:07:22.070 --> 00:07:25.390 time that it was like right in between different things that were happening. So I 114 00:07:25.390 --> 00:07:29.110 didn't see action, but I was in a technical field, so in, 115 00:07:29.110 --> 00:07:32.950 in cryptographic electronics. So I jokingly say if I told you 116 00:07:32.950 --> 00:07:34.910 exactly what I did, I'd have to kill you. So I don't want to do 117 00:07:34.910 --> 00:07:38.850 that. But yeah, it was, I was, I did electronics on cryptographic machines 118 00:07:38.850 --> 00:07:42.730 that were coding and decoding and sending messages and all that kind of stuff. 119 00:07:42.810 --> 00:07:46.170 So I was, I was in a bunker, you know, or a, you know, four 120 00:07:46.170 --> 00:07:50.050 foot metal bunker where people couldn't get in. And when they trained us on all 121 00:07:50.050 --> 00:07:53.010 that stuff, we, they wouldn't let us take notes or anything, you know, because they 122 00:07:53.010 --> 00:07:56.170 didn't want anything getting out. So we would learn and then it would have to 123 00:07:56.170 --> 00:07:59.490 leave everything there and then, then we can go out and back to our, our 124 00:07:59.490 --> 00:08:02.890 place where we were staying. So it was pretty secretive. 125 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:08.120 So were you utilising this equipment or were you supporting, maintaining 126 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:11.520 and designing it? I was supporting and maintaining it, yeah. Yeah, 127 00:08:12.080 --> 00:08:14.920 I made sure it worked if something went wrong, that I was able to go 128 00:08:14.920 --> 00:08:18.880 in and do electronic stuff to be able to fix it and. Yeah. 129 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:23.400 Sort out circuit boards and recalibrate and. My background's 130 00:08:23.400 --> 00:08:26.720 electronics. I was in the Royal Air Force in the UK as a 131 00:08:26.960 --> 00:08:30.960 electronics engineer working on radars and radio and airborne stuff. Well, 132 00:08:30.960 --> 00:08:34.750 it was funny that we, we were working on, we were using. 133 00:08:34.910 --> 00:08:38.910 On older machines that were using tubes and things like that and they 134 00:08:38.910 --> 00:08:42.110 never wanted to really get rid of it because it worked, it worked really well. 135 00:08:42.110 --> 00:08:46.030 And, and some of the electronics in today's age, they can hack and so on 136 00:08:46.030 --> 00:08:49.150 and that type of thing. They really couldn't do that. So they kept them around 137 00:08:49.150 --> 00:08:53.110 for whatever purposes. So if something would break or, you know, a 138 00:08:53.110 --> 00:08:56.150 tube would, would burn out or something, I have to be able to research that 139 00:08:56.150 --> 00:08:59.420 where's it coming from, where's it going and be able to try to 140 00:08:59.660 --> 00:09:03.020 scope out and get that part that may not be readily available, that type of 141 00:09:03.020 --> 00:09:05.820 thing. Yeah, it's very interesting. 142 00:09:07.100 --> 00:09:11.020 Those analogue error. Not susceptible to electromagnetic pulses 143 00:09:11.020 --> 00:09:14.779 and the like, are they? They're very resilient. Exactly. So it came in handy for 144 00:09:14.779 --> 00:09:18.420 whatever purposes they wanted it for. So usually it was setting coded 145 00:09:18.420 --> 00:09:21.900 messages and, you know, whatever secretive things they did. And I really didn't get into 146 00:09:21.900 --> 00:09:25.270 that stuff. I just had to make it work. Yeah, 147 00:09:25.670 --> 00:09:29.030 I remember my time with it recognising that some of the voltages 148 00:09:29.590 --> 00:09:33.430 on that valve technology is 3,000 volts or something, or 3 kilovolts 149 00:09:33.990 --> 00:09:37.790 on the anode. And you think that burns if you touch it? 150 00:09:37.790 --> 00:09:41.510 Yeah, it's like clear. It is. 151 00:09:42.710 --> 00:09:46.310 And the capacitors are holding massive charges, aren't they? You've got to be careful you're 152 00:09:46.310 --> 00:09:50.240 not electric yourself off a capacitor. So, 153 00:09:50.400 --> 00:09:54.400 you know, sorry, we're diving off into the wrong direction. So coming back to 154 00:09:55.920 --> 00:09:59.880 being able to use this as a resilience, as a strength and slowing down 155 00:09:59.880 --> 00:10:03.680 so that you can really observe what's going 156 00:10:03.680 --> 00:10:07.640 on without your chimp brain or your amygdala kicking in, you want to bring this 157 00:10:07.640 --> 00:10:11.600 into your prefrontal cortex where you really kind of understand what's going on. How 158 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:14.440 did you, how did you. Was that the military that taught you that or was 159 00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:17.890 that a kind of a life, life lesson you learned as you, as you grew? 160 00:10:18.130 --> 00:10:21.650 It's funny you mentioned that because it's, it's, I would say the 161 00:10:21.650 --> 00:10:25.570 military magnified that. But I 162 00:10:25.570 --> 00:10:29.330 had that type of personality where in any kind of stressful situation, 163 00:10:29.490 --> 00:10:33.450 the best way I can explain it, and it comes in handy for 164 00:10:33.450 --> 00:10:37.290 certain situations and it's a pain in the ass for other situations if 165 00:10:37.290 --> 00:10:41.090 something stressful would happen. The way I feel is I'm in a shower and 166 00:10:41.090 --> 00:10:44.870 the water comes over me and this is emotion, right? The water comes 167 00:10:44.870 --> 00:10:48.790 over me and I feel it leave my body and it's like, it's 168 00:10:48.790 --> 00:10:52.150 like all the emotion rinses off and I go calm, 169 00:10:52.630 --> 00:10:56.550 relax, and I feel nothing, right? So 170 00:10:56.550 --> 00:11:00.430 I get very unemotional and I get very analytical. So it's like I have 171 00:11:00.430 --> 00:11:04.390 a entrepreneurial business brain and I have 172 00:11:04.390 --> 00:11:08.390 an artistic brain. Shocker. So I kind of have both. And I've learned 173 00:11:08.390 --> 00:11:10.910 more now to turn it on and turn it off. But back then it was, 174 00:11:10.910 --> 00:11:14.610 it was just happening. And in the, in the Marines, 175 00:11:14.610 --> 00:11:18.410 it allowed me to focus in on that. And I, later on in 176 00:11:18.410 --> 00:11:22.330 life, when I wrote my book and fine tuned it a little bit 177 00:11:22.330 --> 00:11:26.090 more, was, I call it domesticating fear. So it's. We 178 00:11:26.090 --> 00:11:29.970 talked about earlier dogs, right? You domesticate the dog where you 179 00:11:29.970 --> 00:11:33.930 try to get out the instinct of the dog. So this way it doesn't just 180 00:11:33.930 --> 00:11:37.210 run for the car or it doesn't just do something and you, you kind of 181 00:11:37.210 --> 00:11:40.990 get that out. And that takes systematic and long 182 00:11:40.990 --> 00:11:44.190 term training to be able to do that. And then you also do that to 183 00:11:44.190 --> 00:11:47.990 fear. You can systematically get what you don't want in you, 184 00:11:48.150 --> 00:11:52.110 out of you, and more control it. It'll always be there, but you control it. 185 00:11:52.110 --> 00:11:55.110 So this way it's not a master of you, you become a master of it 186 00:11:55.510 --> 00:11:59.470 and then you can repurpose it to your advantage. So, and 187 00:11:59.470 --> 00:12:03.110 I say many Times in dysphoria with people, trans people such as 188 00:12:03.110 --> 00:12:06.310 myself, is. It's a pressure that builds up in you 189 00:12:06.890 --> 00:12:10.330 and through whatever your trigger points are, whether it's 190 00:12:10.330 --> 00:12:14.250 misgendering or it's a situation or it's whatever. When I 191 00:12:14.250 --> 00:12:18.010 first started dressing female, it was a pressure that I feel and I had to 192 00:12:18.010 --> 00:12:21.010 let it out. I just had to let it out. And that was the dysphoria 193 00:12:21.010 --> 00:12:24.730 inside of me getting like that. And now it's. I call it in my book, 194 00:12:24.730 --> 00:12:28.570 I call it the pressure valve situation. The pressure valve technique, where 195 00:12:28.570 --> 00:12:31.370 it's like a plumber. You have to let the steam out. So you have to 196 00:12:31.370 --> 00:12:34.610 have a valve to let the steam out. Otherwise it builds, it builds, it builds. 197 00:12:34.610 --> 00:12:38.610 And then you hurt yourself or you hurt other people, right? Because you. And 198 00:12:38.610 --> 00:12:41.410 you explode, right? And you don't want to explode. You got to let. You got 199 00:12:41.410 --> 00:12:44.610 to let it out, and you got to let it out in the right situation. 200 00:12:44.770 --> 00:12:48.690 So this way the pressure goes down. And then 201 00:12:49.490 --> 00:12:53.250 I would dress female, I would feel so much better. And now it's like the 202 00:12:53.250 --> 00:12:56.610 pressure was gone. So people can use that in certain 203 00:12:56.610 --> 00:13:00.490 situations. And that was one of the reasons why I really wanted to write 204 00:13:00.490 --> 00:13:04.330 that book, was I wanted to help people. And that there's so many 205 00:13:04.330 --> 00:13:07.770 people who commit suicide that hurt themselves or hurt other people. And if I could 206 00:13:07.770 --> 00:13:11.670 just save some lives. Lives. Or have them get control of that 207 00:13:11.670 --> 00:13:15.590 issue that they're going through, then it just makes it all worthwhile. 208 00:13:15.590 --> 00:13:19.150 While for me to be able to do that. The same thing with veterans. 209 00:13:19.950 --> 00:13:23.950 Veterans. As many as 6,000 veterans a year in 210 00:13:23.950 --> 00:13:27.950 the United States commit suicide. I was shocked that the number was so high. 211 00:13:27.950 --> 00:13:31.870 And because they can't deal with the PTSD and all the other 212 00:13:31.870 --> 00:13:35.470 pressures. So that's another project I'm working on, is to be able to help them. 213 00:13:35.630 --> 00:13:38.510 How do you deal with that? And using those techniques to deal with that as 214 00:13:38.510 --> 00:13:42.440 well too, to allow them to diffuse that and to be able to calm 215 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:46.360 and make better decisions. Most. Most humans, in my understanding, 216 00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:50.120 have a fear of the unknown, the fear of next. 217 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:54.760 That's the biggest debilitator, isn't it? This unfounded fear. 218 00:13:54.760 --> 00:13:58.360 This. And people are worried about, anxious about being humiliated, being 219 00:13:58.680 --> 00:14:01.880 rejected, being all these things. And you know, as you. As you put it there, 220 00:14:01.880 --> 00:14:05.730 one of the big challenges of people who have gender dysphoria, agenda, 221 00:14:05.730 --> 00:14:09.730 diverse or not, does. Don't conform to the stereotypical version of 222 00:14:09.730 --> 00:14:13.610 what's expected, have this fear of unwrapping themselves, 223 00:14:13.610 --> 00:14:16.730 taking the COVID off and showing the world who they are. And 224 00:14:17.770 --> 00:14:20.970 it could be really insurmountable that. That barrier to doing that. 225 00:14:21.450 --> 00:14:25.290 Oh, it's, It's. It's a ve. You know, it's. 226 00:14:25.770 --> 00:14:29.490 I don't want to diminish it because it's a big barrier, but once you cross 227 00:14:29.490 --> 00:14:33.260 it, you're like, oh, that wasn't that bad. Is that. It was like, 228 00:14:33.260 --> 00:14:37.140 paper thin. Yeah, it's like paper. I was like, is that it? But there's the 229 00:14:37.140 --> 00:14:41.100 barrier. Once you break through, I call it the terror barrier. And whatever 230 00:14:41.100 --> 00:14:44.860 your terror barrier is, once you break through that, you're like, oh, I feel so 231 00:14:44.860 --> 00:14:47.860 much better. But then there's another terror barrier, and it never goes away. It's always 232 00:14:47.860 --> 00:14:51.780 there. You're just expanding your comfort zone. You're domesticating that fear, 233 00:14:51.780 --> 00:14:55.620 and you're domesticated further and further and further. So one of the 234 00:14:55.620 --> 00:14:59.490 techniques that you do in the military is you do it. You keep 235 00:14:59.490 --> 00:15:03.330 on doing something so that this way you desensitise yourself to it and you 236 00:15:03.330 --> 00:15:07.130 run. You can run toward the fear instead of a waste. Whatever scares you 237 00:15:07.210 --> 00:15:11.130 and whatever happens to be, if you can do it little by little. And 238 00:15:11.130 --> 00:15:13.330 so one of the things that I do all the time is like, okay, have 239 00:15:13.330 --> 00:15:16.410 I done this before? Does this really scare me? I want to do it because 240 00:15:16.410 --> 00:15:20.210 it's going to allow me to expand. So then if I. If I'm in another 241 00:15:20.210 --> 00:15:24.160 situation, then I'm like, wow, if I. If I did 242 00:15:24.160 --> 00:15:27.920 that, I could do that. And that's. That's what we call the stoic philosophy, 243 00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:31.680 too. Stoicism, if you've ever followed that. Well, the. The philosophy of 244 00:15:31.680 --> 00:15:35.480 stoicism is do as much of what scares you. So this way, when something 245 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:39.400 else happens, you're like, if I did that, I could do that. So. So 246 00:15:39.640 --> 00:15:43.240 these, all these techniques are universal, and we just kind of put them together to 247 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:46.920 allow people to get a handle on it. Yeah, but it boils down to it 248 00:15:46.920 --> 00:15:50.840 is what are you scared of? Is it rejection? Is it this? Is 249 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:53.720 it the other? And what other people think? That's a big one. 250 00:15:55.400 --> 00:15:59.280 I think from my experience and personal experience and the people 251 00:15:59.280 --> 00:16:03.240 I've met and known before, is that. Actually, one of my friends said this to 252 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:05.840 me. He said, you can't have your cake and eat it. You have to make 253 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:09.360 a decision. If that's what you want, that's what you want. You can't have a 254 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:12.960 foot in every camp and hedge your bets. At some point, you have to 255 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:16.960 decide because the people around you want to know who you are 256 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:20.600 as well. Because if you're not careful, what you end up being is indeterminate. 257 00:16:20.920 --> 00:16:24.860 And people need, in our human society, they need to understand who people are. They 258 00:16:24.860 --> 00:16:28.260 want to put you in a box somehow. And people appreciate that. They want you 259 00:16:28.260 --> 00:16:32.220 to be authentic, right? Yeah, they want you to be authentic. And right now the 260 00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:36.220 Internet is so, I mean, AI is really cool, but after a while I'm 261 00:16:36.220 --> 00:16:40.220 like, I feel duped. I feel duped. Like, like, oh, 262 00:16:40.220 --> 00:16:43.260 that's an AI picture. I thought it was really cool at the beginning. And then 263 00:16:43.260 --> 00:16:45.860 after a while I'm like, you know, I feel like I'm being tricked a little 264 00:16:45.860 --> 00:16:49.220 bit, and I want authenticity and just, just let it out. 265 00:16:49.700 --> 00:16:53.260 Just, just be you. And I'd rather see that and all the bumps in the 266 00:16:53.260 --> 00:16:56.380 warts and all of that kind of thing. I'd rather see that than, than have 267 00:16:56.380 --> 00:17:00.100 something look perfect. But it's all fake, right? Yeah, 268 00:17:00.260 --> 00:17:03.380 I'm with you on that. I, I, I didn't transition about 269 00:17:04.580 --> 00:17:08.020 12, 13 years ago, if you want to put a mark on it. And in 270 00:17:08.020 --> 00:17:11.860 those days, there was less face tuning and 271 00:17:12.100 --> 00:17:15.860 editing, and Photoshop skills were, were not as advanced. I mean, today 272 00:17:16.820 --> 00:17:20.700 I see people who have forensically or AI altered their 273 00:17:20.700 --> 00:17:24.680 photos and their images. Be yourself. Be yourself. Because otherwise, when you go out 274 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:28.320 in the real world, when you go and meet people, I have to come out 275 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:32.320 each time. Whereas if you're just publicly you all the time, there's never, 276 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:36.640 there's no two versions. And I remember thinking to myself, I didn't want a gender 277 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:40.080 transition to become somebody else. I wanted to come gender transition to become 278 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:44.200 myself and one version and not have 15 versions of me, just 279 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:47.960 have one version. So if I'm massaging how you see me 280 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:51.350 online, I'm, I'm faking it again. I spent 281 00:17:51.750 --> 00:17:55.350 40, 50 years faking it. I don't do that anymore. Yeah, and so many people, 282 00:17:55.350 --> 00:17:58.950 they see like a little bitty clip of somebody and they think that's their whole 283 00:17:58.950 --> 00:18:02.830 life. It's really not. But I went on a, I 284 00:18:02.830 --> 00:18:06.430 like cruises. So I went on a cruise just a week or two ago, and 285 00:18:06.430 --> 00:18:10.310 a lot of business people, and we joint venture together and talk to people, and 286 00:18:10.310 --> 00:18:14.310 I talked to someone, two or three people, and I had 287 00:18:14.310 --> 00:18:18.310 one of those aha moments because I, you know, I never hated being 288 00:18:18.310 --> 00:18:22.280 a guy. I enjoyed being a guy, but I really, really enjoyed 289 00:18:22.280 --> 00:18:26.240 being female. So for me, it was more of a fluid type of thing. And 290 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:30.160 for many people, they felt like myself, they felt like there 291 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.360 were a female in A male body, and they just gotta get out. And that's 292 00:18:33.360 --> 00:18:37.160 fine, because everybody's different. I felt more of a yin and yang, where the Most. 293 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:40.880 The first 60 years of my life, the male side was more 294 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:44.760 dominant. And then after that, the female side became more dominant because that's. 295 00:18:44.760 --> 00:18:48.710 I fed into that and I rediscovered Read and I. And over 296 00:18:48.710 --> 00:18:52.550 those years, I was pushing my male side away because I wanted to be 297 00:18:52.790 --> 00:18:56.070 Gwen and have her bloom. And he says, listen, 298 00:18:56.550 --> 00:19:00.470 you can be even more powerful, stronger, 299 00:19:00.470 --> 00:19:04.310 better, a better person if you embrace the positive 300 00:19:04.310 --> 00:19:08.230 sides of your male Persona into your female Persona, and 301 00:19:08.230 --> 00:19:12.150 you become that much better. So you can become a unicorn. You're. You're blooming as 302 00:19:12.150 --> 00:19:15.910 a female, as close to female as you can be. And. But you're also taking 303 00:19:15.990 --> 00:19:19.890 the attributes of the. Of your male self that you like, like, and 304 00:19:19.970 --> 00:19:23.810 now you become even more than you could separate. And I was like, 305 00:19:24.370 --> 00:19:28.290 wow, okay, that makes a lot of sense to me. And so, because I 306 00:19:28.290 --> 00:19:32.210 was trying to escape my. My life as a guy and said, I want to 307 00:19:32.210 --> 00:19:35.810 be female, and I'm just trying to get into this. This life and change. Change 308 00:19:35.810 --> 00:19:39.210 my name and do the female stuff that. Everything we do. And I said, well, 309 00:19:39.210 --> 00:19:41.930 you know, I did, like, some stuff as a guy, and I. I did have 310 00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:45.530 some very strong, strong things that I did as Peter. And then I can bring 311 00:19:45.530 --> 00:19:48.700 that over to be female. And so many people 312 00:19:49.420 --> 00:19:53.180 can use that one. Storey, I'll tell you, is that I saw an interview 313 00:19:53.180 --> 00:19:57.100 of a Olympic downhill skier, and he was 314 00:19:57.100 --> 00:20:00.220 pretty good. And he said, listen, I'm gay. 315 00:20:01.260 --> 00:20:05.100 And he never told anybody. And he said that limited me because, like you 316 00:20:05.100 --> 00:20:09.020 said, he was hiding from everybody. And see 317 00:20:09.020 --> 00:20:13.020 what he was straddling two worlds. So you're almost like, separating yourself and, like, 318 00:20:13.020 --> 00:20:16.780 you're saying being authentic and being yourself. And he said, once I told everybody, 319 00:20:16.780 --> 00:20:20.220 it released that burden from him, and it became so much better 320 00:20:21.020 --> 00:20:24.780 because he didn't have that weight on him all the time. And such as 321 00:20:24.860 --> 00:20:28.660 people like ourselves or anybody that wants to be authentic, be 322 00:20:28.660 --> 00:20:32.500 yourself. People appreciate that. And yes, you're gonna shed 323 00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:35.500 some people that don't want that, but you're gonna gain so many more people that 324 00:20:35.500 --> 00:20:39.420 appreciate that. Yeah, I think we said it earlier that people like authenticity. 325 00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:43.820 They like to know who you are. Our social constructs work better that way. 326 00:20:44.660 --> 00:20:48.660 And also, you yourself have 327 00:20:48.660 --> 00:20:52.580 one voice in your head. One identity, one thing. Okay, 328 00:20:52.580 --> 00:20:56.580 we wear different hats in different situations, but I spent much of my life 329 00:20:56.660 --> 00:21:00.099 with two conflicting halves of my head trying to have different 330 00:21:00.099 --> 00:21:03.940 conversations. One of the things I found when I aligned 331 00:21:04.340 --> 00:21:07.980 was my head became really, really quiet and one, one 332 00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:11.860 voice, one thought, one me. Whereas in the past I've always 333 00:21:11.860 --> 00:21:15.460 had these two elements. And that was the biggest notice to me. The silence I 334 00:21:15.540 --> 00:21:19.460 had in my head was incredible. And the clarity 335 00:21:19.460 --> 00:21:23.460 that I had allowed me to go, whoa. This is my Matrix moment 336 00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:26.940 when I go, whoa. I see the world clearly now. I'm not trying to double 337 00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:29.780 think everything. I'm not trying to go, oh, should I say that? How am I 338 00:21:29.780 --> 00:21:33.580 thinking that? What am I doing now? I'm just me. And it's 339 00:21:33.580 --> 00:21:37.460 incredibly powerful. And you don't have to gender transition to do that. You just got 340 00:21:37.460 --> 00:21:41.020 to find yourself. But you have the male and a female and one's more dominant 341 00:21:41.020 --> 00:21:44.090 and the other one becomes more dominant. But then you're. You have the most separate. 342 00:21:44.090 --> 00:21:47.450 Put it like that, and you merge them together and then it's like, 343 00:21:48.170 --> 00:21:52.010 it's like it becomes in focus. Like you said, the Matrix happens, right? And 344 00:21:52.170 --> 00:21:55.650 you can see clearly, oh, this is what's really happening. You could do that and 345 00:21:55.650 --> 00:21:59.250 combine them. At least I combine them. So many people want to totally separate, which 346 00:21:59.250 --> 00:22:03.250 is fine. And that's for other people's. Hey, whatever, Whatever floats 347 00:22:03.250 --> 00:22:06.650 your body. If you're gender fluid, you have no fixed sense of gender, 348 00:22:07.050 --> 00:22:11.040 then it may well be that those elements of your identity never 349 00:22:11.040 --> 00:22:15.040 mix. They stay disparate potions. And you're able to bring them in and out 350 00:22:15.040 --> 00:22:18.680 of focus as you need to. And if you can exist that way, 351 00:22:19.080 --> 00:22:23.040 that's absolutely wonderful. I just found that it would just bend in my 352 00:22:23.040 --> 00:22:27.000 mind. I was losing it. And have you 353 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:30.640 seen that Disney Pixar film Inside Out? We've got the little 354 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:34.600 characters in the girl's head. And that really was the metaphor 355 00:22:35.560 --> 00:22:39.080 of what I was feeling. The little angry character, the little angry red 356 00:22:39.080 --> 00:22:43.050 character was driving my head for most of my life. And then suddenly 357 00:22:43.050 --> 00:22:46.730 Joy took over and I went, this is me. Joy is now 358 00:22:46.730 --> 00:22:50.730 driving my brain. Everything is orientated around the joy. The female character, if you 359 00:22:50.730 --> 00:22:54.690 like, not the little angry red man. Okay, the little angry red man. 360 00:22:54.690 --> 00:22:58.650 All anxiety and fear, all those other things still in my head. But Joy is 361 00:22:58.650 --> 00:23:02.570 the driver. It's a feminine Persona. And that kind of 362 00:23:02.570 --> 00:23:06.490 really, really struck me when I was watching that film. That's so true. And I 363 00:23:06.490 --> 00:23:10.330 never thought about it. But there's some people around me here, they know me 364 00:23:10.330 --> 00:23:13.940 and they've seen me as a guy and they've seen me as Gwen and they've 365 00:23:13.940 --> 00:23:17.820 seen the years of evolution that I've had. And they said, you 366 00:23:17.820 --> 00:23:21.820 know, as a guy, we like you, but 367 00:23:21.820 --> 00:23:25.780 you're very reserved and you're quiet and you don't. But as Gwen, you're 368 00:23:25.780 --> 00:23:29.780 like. You're almost like you, like you. And I said, the only way I can 369 00:23:29.780 --> 00:23:33.140 explain it is as a guy, I see things in black and white because I'm 370 00:23:33.140 --> 00:23:37.100 reserved. As a woman, I see things in colour. I just bloom and 371 00:23:37.100 --> 00:23:40.980 my personality comes out more. I'm more bubbly, I'm more interactive with people. 372 00:23:41.140 --> 00:23:45.070 It's just like I release. Everything's released and I become more 373 00:23:45.070 --> 00:23:48.950 authentically of who that I feel that I am. And then I pick a few 374 00:23:48.950 --> 00:23:51.710 things that I like as a guy and I stick it in there, you know, 375 00:23:52.190 --> 00:23:56.030 use it as I see fit and then to enhance, so to speak. 376 00:23:56.670 --> 00:24:00.510 Yeah. The other thing I figured out back in those early stages, 377 00:24:00.510 --> 00:24:04.430 about 10, 15 years ago, was trying to define who I was again. I think 378 00:24:04.430 --> 00:24:08.240 for so many years, I tried to aspire 379 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:11.480 to a stereotypical view of femininity, or 380 00:24:12.280 --> 00:24:16.280 probably one that I'd held in my head since my teens. And then 381 00:24:16.280 --> 00:24:20.240 I realised that I was chasing this ideal that 382 00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:24.000 the world wasn't really embracing. And I realised most women I knew were 383 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:26.440 running the other way as I was running that way. And I thought, hang on 384 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.400 a minute. I need to park myself here for a minute and actually figure out 385 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:34.400 who I am, not figure out my. The stereotype. And 386 00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:38.360 that really helped. I. I started acting my age. I was 53 387 00:24:38.360 --> 00:24:42.120 at the time. I thought, hang on a minute. I'm not 19 anymore. I don't 388 00:24:42.120 --> 00:24:44.760 have to do this, I don't have to do that. I can be. I can 389 00:24:44.760 --> 00:24:48.520 wear jeans, I can wear slacks and trainers, and I can, I can 390 00:24:48.840 --> 00:24:51.640 not bother putting my bra on one day if I don't want to. You know, 391 00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:55.520 I can be like every other woman out there. And when I 392 00:24:55.520 --> 00:24:59.520 realised I didn't have to live by rules that I'd invented 393 00:24:59.520 --> 00:25:03.470 in my head, again, it simplified that vision 394 00:25:03.470 --> 00:25:07.470 for me. Just, just to go, it must be me. Did you. Have 395 00:25:07.470 --> 00:25:10.990 you. Did you know your entire life, or was it something that more. You realised 396 00:25:10.990 --> 00:25:14.950 later on in life? We're, we're not too dissimilar in age. And, you 397 00:25:14.950 --> 00:25:18.950 know, you look back in the early 70s, there was no, no language to describe 398 00:25:18.950 --> 00:25:22.790 it, but no something there. Yeah, I, I, 399 00:25:23.110 --> 00:25:26.950 when I was 12, 13, 14, 15, I 400 00:25:27.030 --> 00:25:30.800 would look at a. Because I'm very heterosexual, so 401 00:25:30.800 --> 00:25:33.880