WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.223 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold 2 00:00:11.223 --> 00:00:14.559 conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne 3 00:00:14.559 --> 00:00:18.423 Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration 4 00:00:18.423 --> 00:00:22.285 into the heart of inclusion, belonging and societal 5 00:00:22.285 --> 00:00:26.236 transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to 6 00:00:26.236 --> 00:00:30.098 create a world without? Remember, everyone not only 7 00:00:30.098 --> 00:00:33.961 belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we 8 00:00:33.961 --> 00:00:37.560 uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo and 9 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:41.248 share stories that resonate deep within. Ready to 10 00:00:41.248 --> 00:00:45.112 dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee 11 00:00:45.112 --> 00:00:48.624 or winding down after a long day, let's connect, 12 00:00:48.624 --> 00:00:52.488 reflect and inspire action together. Don't forget, 13 00:00:52.488 --> 00:00:56.263 you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to 14 00:00:56.263 --> 00:01:00.127 jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your 15 00:01:00.127 --> 00:01:03.651 insights or to join me on the show. So 16 00:01:03.651 --> 00:01:07.173 adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to 17 00:01:07.173 --> 00:01:11.148 ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. 18 00:01:11.148 --> 00:01:15.033 And today is episode 211 with the title Belonging as 19 00:01:15.033 --> 00:01:18.917 Infrastructure. And I have the absolute honour and 20 00:01:18.917 --> 00:01:22.711 privilege to welcome Andrea D. Carter. Andrea is a 21 00:01:22.711 --> 00:01:26.686 neuroscience based workplace belonging expert, an 22 00:01:26.686 --> 00:01:30.119 organisational scientist and founder of the 23 00:01:30.119 --> 00:01:34.093 Belonging first methodology, helping leaders turn 24 00:01:34.093 --> 00:01:37.796 belonging into a measurable, practical culture 25 00:01:37.796 --> 00:01:41.229 strategy. When I asked Andrea to describe her 26 00:01:41.229 --> 00:01:45.023 superpower, she said that it is her ability to turn 27 00:01:45.023 --> 00:01:48.815 complex data into science and stories that people 28 00:01:48.815 --> 00:01:52.791 can feel, translating into lived experience behind 29 00:01:52.791 --> 00:01:56.765 the numbers into insights that leaders can actually 30 00:01:56.765 --> 00:02:00.509 act on. Hello, Andrea, welcome to the show. Hello, 31 00:02:00.509 --> 00:02:03.150 Joanne. So nice to be here today. Thanks for having me. 32 00:02:04.110 --> 00:02:08.110 Yes. Whereabouts in the world are you? So just in Toronto, Ontario, 33 00:02:08.110 --> 00:02:12.030 Canada, and it's freezing here. Freezing. So that's quite. 34 00:02:12.030 --> 00:02:15.830 Up north, as I would say in the uk is quite. It's a 35 00:02:15.830 --> 00:02:18.750 northern part of Canada, is it? Or the whole of Canada's freezing at this time 36 00:02:18.750 --> 00:02:21.750 of year? Well, it's the wintertime here and so 37 00:02:23.110 --> 00:02:27.070 for those of us who ski, we love it. Although Ontario skiing 38 00:02:27.070 --> 00:02:30.790 is like skiing on ice and out west it's skiing in the mountains. 39 00:02:30.790 --> 00:02:34.630 Like, you know what you ski, you. Need the powder, 40 00:02:34.630 --> 00:02:38.470 don't you? You don't want it to freeze too much. Well, skiing on ice 41 00:02:38.470 --> 00:02:42.470 is, you know, you're working really hard, I'll say that. Yeah, that's 42 00:02:42.470 --> 00:02:44.950 true. Hard to walk around as well. You need to be able to crunch into 43 00:02:45.170 --> 00:02:49.170 as well, I guess. Yes, well, and it's, you know, even just going outside, 44 00:02:49.170 --> 00:02:52.850 right. Like if you're walking your dog or something like that, you're, you're certainly 45 00:02:52.930 --> 00:02:56.810 putting on all of the clothes and you're just, you know, your eyes 46 00:02:56.810 --> 00:03:00.726 are peeking out from behind all of your winter gear. I've 47 00:03:00.726 --> 00:03:04.179 got a Puppy and I took her out for a walk this morning and often 48 00:03:04.179 --> 00:03:07.979 when I take her out she's six months old and she's a cavapoo so she's 49 00:03:07.979 --> 00:03:11.849 never going to be a massive dog. So she's kind of small, medium at the 50 00:03:11.849 --> 00:03:15.717 moment. And I bring her back and she's got this like dirt line across 51 00:03:15.717 --> 00:03:19.446 her body where it's gone up up to her shoulders and it's like brown 52 00:03:19.446 --> 00:03:23.384 stain across her body. The bottom of her ears are also dirty so you can 53 00:03:23.384 --> 00:03:27.115 see exactly the dirt line where she's gone through puddles, gone 54 00:03:27.115 --> 00:03:30.502 through mud and stuff. So she's a curious being in the snow. 55 00:03:32.190 --> 00:03:35.950 She'd love it. Probably snow angels. That's cute. Yeah. 56 00:03:36.190 --> 00:03:39.230 Instead of snow angels where she lies on the back in the snow, she lies 57 00:03:39.230 --> 00:03:42.310 in the mud and does it. It's got her back. It's like just like the 58 00:03:42.310 --> 00:03:46.260 horses. Yeah, they do that too. Yeah. So 59 00:03:46.260 --> 00:03:49.979 what sort of dog have you got or dogs? I have one dog, he's a 60 00:03:49.979 --> 00:03:53.633 rescue and we rescued him about seven years ago and 61 00:03:53.633 --> 00:03:57.200 he's a cross we think between a pharaoh hound and a 62 00:03:57.200 --> 00:04:01.115 basenji. And so he's a very interesting dog because he 63 00:04:01.115 --> 00:04:04.682 is more like a cat than a dog. We've always had very 64 00:04:04.682 --> 00:04:08.597 rambunctious dogs and so, you know, typically border 65 00:04:08.597 --> 00:04:12.512 collies and Australian shepherds. And so this dog is a 66 00:04:12.512 --> 00:04:16.166 little bit of a, a different personality than what 67 00:04:16.166 --> 00:04:19.820 we're used to. And yet he's so sweet. And he doesn't 68 00:04:19.820 --> 00:04:23.648 bark if he wants something. He communicates through 69 00:04:23.648 --> 00:04:27.389 his eyes. So you have to really pay attention to what 70 00:04:27.389 --> 00:04:31.359 he's asking you for. And he's just such a sweet boy. He 71 00:04:31.359 --> 00:04:35.319 will lay in any sort of sunshine that is coming in through the 72 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:39.319 house and that is his most favourite thing. He won't swim, he 73 00:04:39.319 --> 00:04:42.879 won't go in puddles. But he loves to hop through the snow 74 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:46.680 and he certainly loves to be outside. That's beautiful. Sounds 75 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:50.640 fantastic. Nothing better than a dog that looks communicates through 76 00:04:50.640 --> 00:04:54.560 the eyes. I've learned about puppy dog eyes firsthand and they're. There's something else, 77 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:58.360 aren't they the eyes? They really are. And even you know, if he's hungry 78 00:04:58.360 --> 00:05:02.359 or something like that, like he has this specific look of okay, I'm 79 00:05:02.359 --> 00:05:06.040 hungry, I'd like to eat now. He's fascinating. He's taught me a lot about 80 00:05:06.200 --> 00:05:10.200 non communicative behaviour for sure. And so lovely 81 00:05:10.200 --> 00:05:13.800 that we have him. He's a real treat in our family. 82 00:05:15.310 --> 00:05:19.270 That's, it's interesting you say that about non communicative behaviour. I thought I'd 83 00:05:19.270 --> 00:05:23.070 learned some really good lessons. My wife and I are raising two children, you 84 00:05:23.070 --> 00:05:27.030 know, because children teach you a lot about leadership and your 85 00:05:27.030 --> 00:05:30.750 own leadership style and how to influence and not tell 86 00:05:30.750 --> 00:05:34.550 and you're managing human beings a different way of communicating. Yeah. 87 00:05:34.550 --> 00:05:38.030 So our puppy has taught us a whole new set of lessons around 88 00:05:39.390 --> 00:05:43.310 patience, accountability, responsibility and 89 00:05:43.390 --> 00:05:47.110 cause. I remember just before we got her, I read, read the book or some 90 00:05:47.110 --> 00:05:50.430 YouTubes and the golden rule is it's never the puppy's fault. 91 00:05:52.030 --> 00:05:55.990 They don't set out to be mean, vindictive, annoy you 92 00:05:55.990 --> 00:05:59.830 or anything like this. They just, they just do puppy stuff. So if, if 93 00:05:59.830 --> 00:06:03.310 they're not doing the right puppy stuff, it's down to you to create the environment 94 00:06:03.950 --> 00:06:07.470 and to create the lessons. It's really 95 00:06:07.630 --> 00:06:10.940 like Leadership Development 101. This is now 96 00:06:10.940 --> 00:06:14.780 3014. I feel like I've graduated as a 97 00:06:14.780 --> 00:06:18.660 master's in patience and accountability. So 98 00:06:18.660 --> 00:06:22.180 true, so true. And it is one of those things where, 99 00:06:22.660 --> 00:06:26.500 you know, when you look at going first, I always talk about 100 00:06:26.900 --> 00:06:30.700 belonging through that lens of going first. You know, we have to set the 101 00:06:30.700 --> 00:06:34.500 conditions and we have to have language and we have to have infrastructure in order 102 00:06:34.500 --> 00:06:38.270 for people to, to really thrive and succeed. And it's the same for 103 00:06:38.270 --> 00:06:41.830 animals, right, when there's predictability and clarity and there's 104 00:06:41.830 --> 00:06:45.590 structure and it actually allows the human brain and also the 105 00:06:45.590 --> 00:06:49.350 puppy brain to, to succeed and to do the things 106 00:06:49.350 --> 00:06:53.070 that, that we're actually wanting from them. So children, 107 00:06:53.310 --> 00:06:57.190 puppies, workplaces, they're all learning grounds for 108 00:06:57.190 --> 00:07:01.070 sure. So we start in the, in the intro that I read out and, 109 00:07:01.070 --> 00:07:04.190 and, and spoke to about this belonging first methodology. 110 00:07:04.750 --> 00:07:08.560 What is belonging? How would you describe that in the workplace 111 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:12.560 or even in society? Yeah, so it's interesting 112 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:15.800 because I think what often 113 00:07:15.880 --> 00:07:19.480 happens is that, and especially right now. So 114 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:23.320 let's address the elephant in the room, if you will. You know, 115 00:07:23.320 --> 00:07:27.280 there's so much media right now that DEI is dead. In Canada 116 00:07:27.280 --> 00:07:30.280 we call it idea. So in the acronym we include 117 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:34.680 accessibility. So Inclusion, Diversity, equity, accessibility. And 118 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:38.900 what we're seeing in Canada, I mean, I work across the globe, 119 00:07:38.980 --> 00:07:42.860 so I, I work with a lot of global organisations and 120 00:07:42.860 --> 00:07:46.860 so you're hearing a lot of different kind of elements from different places 121 00:07:46.860 --> 00:07:50.580 in the world. And if you look at localization and you look at 122 00:07:50.980 --> 00:07:54.820 all of the things that each country is bringing right now and 123 00:07:54.820 --> 00:07:58.740 the volatility that we're under right now, you know, I think it's actually a 124 00:07:58.740 --> 00:08:02.700 dangerous belief to Say that DEI is dying or even 125 00:08:02.700 --> 00:08:06.190 misplacing that DEI is the same thing as belonging to. 126 00:08:06.420 --> 00:08:10.333 Because they're not. And I think treating it as true 127 00:08:10.333 --> 00:08:13.882 is actually causing some real harm. And here's 128 00:08:13.882 --> 00:08:17.795 what's actually happening. You know, we're seeing 129 00:08:17.795 --> 00:08:21.616 organisations roll DEI language into culture and 130 00:08:21.616 --> 00:08:25.346 belonging initiatives, but they're conflating 131 00:08:25.346 --> 00:08:28.894 two fundamentally different things. So DEI is 132 00:08:28.894 --> 00:08:32.624 structural accountability frameworks, right? 133 00:08:32.624 --> 00:08:35.990 They're allowing organisations to not only 134 00:08:35.990 --> 00:08:39.538 measure representation, but track pay equity 135 00:08:39.538 --> 00:08:42.996 audit hiring processes, evaluate promotion 136 00:08:42.996 --> 00:08:45.998 velocity across demographics and hold 137 00:08:45.998 --> 00:08:49.273 organisations accountable for some of the 138 00:08:49.273 --> 00:08:52.731 systemic gaps that we're seeing. DEI and idea 139 00:08:52.731 --> 00:08:56.371 really is a question of asking, you know, are our 140 00:08:56.371 --> 00:08:59.829 structures equitable? Whereas belonging is 141 00:08:59.829 --> 00:09:03.558 actually an experiential infrastructure. It's 142 00:09:03.558 --> 00:09:07.380 going to measure five specific indicators that we 143 00:09:07.380 --> 00:09:10.929 validated back in 2022, actually in the mining 144 00:09:10.929 --> 00:09:14.780 industry. We had 3,500 participants. It was the largest 145 00:09:14.780 --> 00:09:18.140 mining study that had ever been done and 146 00:09:18.940 --> 00:09:22.460 it was across 11 Toronto Stock Exchange listed 147 00:09:22.540 --> 00:09:26.340 organisations. And so we validated, we started there, we 148 00:09:26.340 --> 00:09:30.220 started with what is belonging and what do people have to experience 149 00:09:30.460 --> 00:09:34.380 in order for them to experience belonging from a. From a 150 00:09:34.380 --> 00:09:38.340 neuroscience perspective? And then can they be measured? And so the 151 00:09:38.340 --> 00:09:41.380 five indicators are actually comfortable connection, 152 00:09:41.620 --> 00:09:45.500 contribution, psychological safety and wellbeing. And 153 00:09:45.500 --> 00:09:49.460 what they do is those five indicators actually enable people to perform 154 00:09:49.460 --> 00:09:53.100 at their best. And so we're not just checking to see if 155 00:09:53.100 --> 00:09:56.980 you're invited into the organisation or into 156 00:09:56.980 --> 00:10:00.900 the meeting, we're checking to see whether or not can you actually perform 157 00:10:00.900 --> 00:10:04.700 at your best in this environment. Belonging actually asks the 158 00:10:04.700 --> 00:10:08.340 question, can people succeed in the systems we've built? 159 00:10:09.210 --> 00:10:12.250 And so those things are very different, you need both, 160 00:10:13.050 --> 00:10:16.570 but they're not interchangeable. And I think when organisations 161 00:10:16.570 --> 00:10:19.770 abandon DEI accountability in favour of 162 00:10:19.930 --> 00:10:23.530 belonging focused culture, they're making a critical error. 163 00:10:23.610 --> 00:10:27.610 And you can't create belonging without addressing the structural barriers 164 00:10:27.610 --> 00:10:31.250 of DEI frameworks. And you can't achieve DEI outcomes without 165 00:10:31.250 --> 00:10:34.810 belonging. Infrastructure and those two elements together 166 00:10:35.130 --> 00:10:39.130 are what allow us to look at creating organisations 167 00:10:39.130 --> 00:10:42.870 that are not only diverse but actually succeed together. That's where 168 00:10:42.870 --> 00:10:46.630 your quality, your speed, your engagement, your innovation comes 169 00:10:46.630 --> 00:10:50.590 from. See, I've always said you can be included but not feel 170 00:10:50.590 --> 00:10:53.990 belonging. Absolutely. What you've just said there, 171 00:10:54.630 --> 00:10:58.630 it's interesting because when we look at this, I like to think of 172 00:10:58.710 --> 00:11:01.670 DEI as looking at information 173 00:11:03.110 --> 00:11:06.710 that is input, belonging 174 00:11:06.790 --> 00:11:10.660 is output. And so belonging is the 175 00:11:10.660 --> 00:11:14.500 action of being able to actually show 176 00:11:14.500 --> 00:11:17.740 up and create environments so that the 177 00:11:17.740 --> 00:11:21.060 infrastructure works. And so if I might 178 00:11:22.020 --> 00:11:25.940 go through the five indicators just a little bit here, if that would be 179 00:11:25.940 --> 00:11:29.860 helpful. Yeah, please, please, I'd love to hear them. I think that that 180 00:11:29.860 --> 00:11:33.620 kind of breaks things down a little bit and provides a little bit 181 00:11:33.620 --> 00:11:37.610 more context to what I'm talking about. So comfort. 182 00:11:37.610 --> 00:11:40.490 I always think it's so funny when I. When I say the word comfort, people 183 00:11:40.490 --> 00:11:44.290 are like, oh, yeah, you know, we have to be comfortable in our space. And 184 00:11:44.290 --> 00:11:48.290 I'm not talking about the fluffy stuff, right? I'm not talking about, you know, that 185 00:11:48.290 --> 00:11:52.250 you're not gonna have friction or conflict. We actually need friction and 186 00:11:52.250 --> 00:11:56.250 conflict. However, comfort is the first indicator, because 187 00:11:56.890 --> 00:12:00.690 when you go into friction, when you go into conflict, if 188 00:12:00.690 --> 00:12:04.330 you don't have some key elements that actually 189 00:12:04.410 --> 00:12:07.450 set your brain up to regulate, 190 00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:12.360 you are going to be in an environment where you are consistently 191 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:16.200 dysregulated. And leaders, when they walk in a room, 192 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:19.720 they either dysregulate their teams and their 193 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:23.719 organisation or they regulate the 194 00:12:23.719 --> 00:12:27.522 organisation. And so one of the things that helps our brain do 195 00:12:27.522 --> 00:12:31.470 that is actually having clarity and predictability. And so 196 00:12:31.470 --> 00:12:35.418 that is part of the comfort indicator. So clarity, you know, 197 00:12:35.418 --> 00:12:39.367 really, when you look at clarity, it can be things like being 198 00:12:39.367 --> 00:12:43.080 able to walk into a room. And let me. Let me say it this way, 199 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:46.555 you've probably felt this where you've walked into a 200 00:12:46.555 --> 00:12:50.504 meeting and you've had absolutely no idea why you're there, 201 00:12:50.504 --> 00:12:54.453 what the decision is that you need to make, or whether you're 202 00:12:54.453 --> 00:12:58.322 supposed to speak or supposed to stay quiet. And you almost 203 00:12:58.322 --> 00:13:02.192 spend the entire time scanning the room, trying to read the 204 00:13:02.192 --> 00:13:05.901 emotional temperature, figuring out what the unspoken 205 00:13:05.901 --> 00:13:09.219 rules are. And by the time the meeting ends, you're 206 00:13:09.219 --> 00:13:12.930 exhausted. But you're not exhausted from doing the work 207 00:13:12.930 --> 00:13:16.420 yet. You haven't done the work. You're exhausted from the 208 00:13:16.420 --> 00:13:19.460 cognitive load of uncertainty, of not knowing. 209 00:13:20.180 --> 00:13:24.180 And that's your brain being in threat mode. And so when 210 00:13:24.180 --> 00:13:28.020 you're in this mode, your cortisol levels are elevated, your nervous system is 211 00:13:28.020 --> 00:13:32.020 working overtime and there's zero energy that's 212 00:13:32.020 --> 00:13:35.020 actually going towards real 213 00:13:35.740 --> 00:13:39.420 problem solving, innovation, working through 214 00:13:39.740 --> 00:13:43.500 situations or conflicts, or, you 215 00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:47.460 know, being able to generate new ideas. The flip side of that, 216 00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:51.020 when, when comfort is present, you enter a meeting 217 00:13:51.100 --> 00:13:54.860 and it starts with, here's why we're here, 218 00:13:56.390 --> 00:14:00.270 here's what we need to decide, here's how your input 219 00:14:00.270 --> 00:14:03.910 is going to shape this outcome, and here's who is 220 00:14:03.910 --> 00:14:07.590 ultimately making the final decision. Clarity, 221 00:14:07.750 --> 00:14:11.350 predictability. So immediately, you know, when you have those things, 222 00:14:11.510 --> 00:14:15.230 shoulders drop, right? Your brain stops scanning and 223 00:14:15.230 --> 00:14:19.190 worrying about, you know, what other people are doing. And you're actually, 224 00:14:19.590 --> 00:14:23.510 by having those things, you're being told where you're 225 00:14:23.510 --> 00:14:26.790 gonna focus your energy and where you're gonna focus your brain power. So 226 00:14:27.350 --> 00:14:31.230 that problem actually gets your 227 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:34.790 attention rather than having to manage your own 228 00:14:34.870 --> 00:14:38.870 anxiety. Yeah, that's the word that's gonna pick up anxiety. You're not sure 229 00:14:38.870 --> 00:14:42.870 what's there. Your brain's rushing around upstairs going, 230 00:14:43.030 --> 00:14:46.270 what am I doing? How do I succeed in this environment? You don't know, do 231 00:14:46.270 --> 00:14:48.850 you? You don't know. And so if you think about 232 00:14:50.210 --> 00:14:53.330 a lot of fitting in environments, so fitting in 233 00:14:53.970 --> 00:14:57.970 is the opposite of belonging. Fitting in 234 00:14:57.970 --> 00:15:01.490 is. It's 100% on me 235 00:15:02.130 --> 00:15:05.410 to come into your environment, Jo, and 236 00:15:07.410 --> 00:15:11.370 I have to adapt to you, I have 237 00:15:11.370 --> 00:15:15.110 to read your signals, interpret what 238 00:15:15.110 --> 00:15:18.830 you've said, read between the lines in how many 239 00:15:18.830 --> 00:15:22.670 different ways, all of those things. And then, you know, I don't 240 00:15:22.670 --> 00:15:25.750 even know. I, I might be right, I might be wrong. 241 00:15:26.470 --> 00:15:30.470 And so what that does is that instead of you getting my best 242 00:15:30.470 --> 00:15:33.990 self, you're getting my anxious or 243 00:15:33.990 --> 00:15:37.990 confused or navigating trying to figure things out. 244 00:15:38.230 --> 00:15:41.980 And that fitting in model is actually what's 245 00:15:41.980 --> 00:15:45.620 costing organisations from being really successful. 246 00:15:46.420 --> 00:15:49.980 You know, once you hire someone, when you onboard someone, you 247 00:15:49.980 --> 00:15:53.700 obviously want them to succeed in your, in your environment, 248 00:15:54.020 --> 00:15:57.780 it's too expensive to have to replace bad hires. 249 00:15:57.780 --> 00:16:01.780 And a lot of times it's not a bad hire, it's that the organisation 250 00:16:01.780 --> 00:16:05.580 hasn't created belonging. And belonging is, is 50, 50. 251 00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:09.300 It means that it's 50% on me for me to create 252 00:16:09.300 --> 00:16:13.020 belonging for you and 50% on you to create belonging for me. It means 253 00:16:13.020 --> 00:16:16.500 we're showing up together to actually create that 254 00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:20.380 comfort, get clear on what makes each other do well, 255 00:16:20.540 --> 00:16:24.460 create success factors that we're working towards 256 00:16:24.700 --> 00:16:28.660 and we understand and we know having an awareness of somebody 257 00:16:28.660 --> 00:16:32.540 else's needs and what makes them do well, that's all part 258 00:16:32.540 --> 00:16:36.030 of comfort. And so comfort isn't about 259 00:16:36.430 --> 00:16:39.870 eliminating challenge or conflict or friction, 260 00:16:40.430 --> 00:16:43.790 it's about creating clarity and predictability so that 261 00:16:43.950 --> 00:16:47.950 people's nervous systems can actually use their energy 262 00:16:48.350 --> 00:16:52.270 towards performance. What we need to be really, really mindful of 263 00:16:52.270 --> 00:16:56.030 then is the people's comfort is different 264 00:16:56.190 --> 00:17:00.070 to other people. Some of the anxiety that I may 265 00:17:00.070 --> 00:17:03.540 feel in a certain situation may be magnified 266 00:17:03.700 --> 00:17:07.660 or not there for others. You know, it depends on your own personality types, your 267 00:17:07.660 --> 00:17:11.380 own knowledge, your own power in the dynamic, power 268 00:17:11.380 --> 00:17:15.380 dynamic in the relationships. And your comfort level is going to have a different 269 00:17:16.580 --> 00:17:20.100 temperature gauge, isn't it? Absolutely. And in a fitting in 270 00:17:20.100 --> 00:17:24.100 culture, the comfort level is all about the person who has the most power. 271 00:17:24.900 --> 00:17:28.630 And so in that fitting in culture, everything 272 00:17:28.790 --> 00:17:32.670 is about one person rather than about the team or 273 00:17:32.670 --> 00:17:36.670 the group, even the family. And so 274 00:17:36.670 --> 00:17:40.390 in those situations, you know, some of the 275 00:17:40.710 --> 00:17:44.590 skills and the behaviours, capabilities are 276 00:17:44.590 --> 00:17:48.350 to look at how to create comfort for your 277 00:17:48.350 --> 00:17:52.190 team so that they thrive. And it's interesting, I was listening to 278 00:17:52.190 --> 00:17:55.910 a Bloomberg, a podcast the other day 279 00:17:56.550 --> 00:18:00.310 and it was this incredibly successful 280 00:18:00.310 --> 00:18:04.110 woman who had, you know, run. She was a 281 00:18:04.110 --> 00:18:07.670 CEO, she was cfo, she had run all of these organisations. 282 00:18:07.990 --> 00:18:10.950 And what she talked about was that, you know, they were talking about middle management 283 00:18:10.950 --> 00:18:14.710 right now and how middle management is, is really being compressed. Well, 284 00:18:14.710 --> 00:18:18.710 middle management has always been compressed because they're getting pressure from above 285 00:18:18.710 --> 00:18:22.430 and from below. And so that, that's just the role. But the thing is, is 286 00:18:22.430 --> 00:18:26.330 that those middle managers who actually created comfort 287 00:18:26.330 --> 00:18:29.930 for their team actually saw the person 288 00:18:30.170 --> 00:18:33.770 first. That actually led to, and this is the next 289 00:18:33.770 --> 00:18:37.210 indicator, connection. And it leads to 290 00:18:38.170 --> 00:18:41.850 building trust by getting to know someone, 291 00:18:42.170 --> 00:18:45.850 by getting to understand someone, by building 292 00:18:45.930 --> 00:18:49.770 a relationship that's built on trust rather than on transaction. 293 00:18:49.850 --> 00:18:53.530 And when you create mutual accountability and when you create 294 00:18:53.530 --> 00:18:57.390 mutual responsibility, connection allows you to trust somebody 295 00:18:57.390 --> 00:19:00.710 when you're going through friction and 296 00:19:00.790 --> 00:19:04.710 conflict. And so if you think of a lot of teams, 297 00:19:04.870 --> 00:19:08.590 I'll give you another example for connection here, but most people have 298 00:19:08.590 --> 00:19:12.550 probably felt this as well. You know, you're on this team, everyone's 299 00:19:12.550 --> 00:19:16.350 polite, everyone does their job, but nobody 300 00:19:16.350 --> 00:19:20.190 trusts each other, right? Everything is about transaction. Like, I'll give you this, 301 00:19:20.190 --> 00:19:24.167 you give me that, you do this, I'll do that. And nobody's going to ask 302 00:19:24.167 --> 00:19:27.893 for help because they don't want to look too weak. And 303 00:19:27.893 --> 00:19:31.787 nobody is going to offer help because you're not sure if 304 00:19:31.787 --> 00:19:34.834 it's welcome. And so meetings are all about 305 00:19:34.834 --> 00:19:38.814 performances, right? And everyone's guarded. And, you 306 00:19:38.814 --> 00:19:42.794 know, this is what happens when, when real connection is 307 00:19:42.794 --> 00:19:46.349 missing. And so, you know, even on this, this other 308 00:19:46.349 --> 00:19:50.329 podcast on Bloomberg, you know, the, the concept really 309 00:19:50.329 --> 00:19:54.054 was that if middle managers don't know how to connect 310 00:19:54.054 --> 00:19:58.034 with people, that they never create environments where 311 00:19:58.034 --> 00:20:01.759 the employees are thriving and they can't succeed as 312 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:05.315 well. And so what we know is that when you start with 313 00:20:05.315 --> 00:20:09.126 comfort and creating clarity and predictability and 314 00:20:09.126 --> 00:20:12.852 then you move into connection, which is developing a 315 00:20:12.852 --> 00:20:16.322 bond. You know, what you're doing there is you're 316 00:20:16.322 --> 00:20:20.217 creating the structure so that one of your team can say, 317 00:20:20.217 --> 00:20:24.195 you know, I'm stuck on this. Can you take a look? And three 318 00:20:24.195 --> 00:20:28.174 people immediately jump onto it, right? Or In a meeting, 319 00:20:28.174 --> 00:20:31.476 when someone names somebody else as being a big 320 00:20:31.476 --> 00:20:34.947 contributor publicly, like, this moved forward 321 00:20:34.947 --> 00:20:38.650 because of what Jo did. Right. Like, you feel 322 00:20:38.890 --> 00:20:42.810 that you're in this together and that's oxytocin, 323 00:20:42.810 --> 00:20:46.730 that's your brain going through a bonding process. 324 00:20:47.370 --> 00:20:51.340 And when connection isn't just about being nice, I say that 325 00:20:51.340 --> 00:20:54.700 with bunny ears, you know, it's about building trust through 326 00:20:54.700 --> 00:20:58.580 reciprocity. So when friction and conflict 327 00:20:58.580 --> 00:21:02.460 and we know that that's not going away, right? Volatility is just 328 00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:06.300 getting more volatile. It means that we can also then navigate these things 329 00:21:06.379 --> 00:21:10.140 together instead of retreating into isolation. You know that your 330 00:21:10.140 --> 00:21:13.220 teammates have your back, you know that people are going to be there to support 331 00:21:13.220 --> 00:21:17.140 you and you're not going to get thrown under a bus by 332 00:21:17.140 --> 00:21:20.600 your manager, by your leader. You know when you can succeed. So you got that. 333 00:21:20.600 --> 00:21:23.760 So the previous hit, you got the clarity and, you know, you got the support. 334 00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:27.680 Yeah, I get that. I get it completely. So the next 335 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:31.480 indicator is contribution. And you've likely felt this too, 336 00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:34.800 at some point. You know, you've worked on a project or 337 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:39.000 you've been. You can even think of. Families are great with this 338 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:42.560 too. You know, there's. There's likely one person that is 339 00:21:42.560 --> 00:21:46.560 dictating and only certain people are asked their opinion. 340 00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:50.170 Or, you know, you've poured work into a project 341 00:21:50.570 --> 00:21:54.530 and, you know, staying late, working weekends, you know, 342 00:21:54.530 --> 00:21:58.370 delivering something that you're proud of and then nothing, no 343 00:21:58.370 --> 00:22:01.970 acknowledgement, you know, no feedback. The work just kind of like disappears. 344 00:22:01.970 --> 00:22:05.970 Worse, your effort gets dismissed. Oh, I haven't got time to 345 00:22:05.970 --> 00:22:09.970 look at that, or I'm too busy, or I haven't looked at it yet. And 346 00:22:09.970 --> 00:22:13.850 you think, well, why. Why did I bother? Yeah, that is such a great point 347 00:22:13.850 --> 00:22:17.530 too. Thanks for adding that into the conversation. Because you're 348 00:22:17.530 --> 00:22:21.510 absolutely right. And you know, that dismiss, man, 349 00:22:21.510 --> 00:22:25.470 like, that's. That's really detrimental. And 350 00:22:25.470 --> 00:22:29.470 so in the contribution indicator, what we're looking at here is 351 00:22:29.470 --> 00:22:32.070 that contribution actually motivates and 352 00:22:32.630 --> 00:22:36.390 mobilises us. And when we know that the work matters, 353 00:22:36.390 --> 00:22:40.390 when we know that we matter, when we're valued 354 00:22:40.390 --> 00:22:43.990 and the work that we do, or the. Even the perspective 355 00:22:44.150 --> 00:22:48.070 that we provide, when that becomes influential, 356 00:22:48.670 --> 00:22:52.510 and that can actually change decisions, that. That actually 357 00:22:52.910 --> 00:22:56.790 allows your brain to release not only dopamine but also 358 00:22:56.790 --> 00:23:00.350 serotonin. And so, you know, your 359 00:23:00.430 --> 00:23:03.470 brain, when you're acknowledged, 360 00:23:04.269 --> 00:23:07.950 releases dopamine. And it's essentially what says, hey, 361 00:23:08.030 --> 00:23:11.550 you've. You've done something that people 362 00:23:11.710 --> 00:23:15.390 are acknowledging and this is good. And then what 363 00:23:15.390 --> 00:23:19.300 happens is that when Somebody acknowledges it. You have 364 00:23:19.300 --> 00:23:23.020 serotonin that's released when somebody doesn't 365 00:23:23.020 --> 00:23:26.700 acknowledge it. That actually takes the foot off the 366 00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:30.340 dopamine and it drains your motivation really quickly 367 00:23:31.060 --> 00:23:34.459 because when it's not acknowledged, the 368 00:23:34.459 --> 00:23:38.100 serotonin can't kick in. And serotonin is the 369 00:23:38.180 --> 00:23:42.100 hormone and neurotransmitter that actually allows you to 370 00:23:42.100 --> 00:23:45.970 stay motivated and to keep going. And 371 00:23:45.970 --> 00:23:49.770 so I always think it's so fascinating because people always think about 372 00:23:49.770 --> 00:23:53.130 the high performer and the low performer and that this is like 373 00:23:53.130 --> 00:23:57.050 universal. But the thing is, is that nobody operates in a 374 00:23:57.050 --> 00:24:00.770 silo. Everyone, the frontline worker, the admin 375 00:24:00.930 --> 00:24:03.490 assistant, the middle manager, the executive, 376 00:24:04.850 --> 00:24:08.690 you know, they all need to know that their work 377 00:24:09.010 --> 00:24:12.970 matters. And this isn't, you know, we're not talking about, you know, 378 00:24:13.210 --> 00:24:17.090 constant praise, it's acknowledgement. It's, 379 00:24:17.090 --> 00:24:20.890 it's, you know, you've done this work and there's an acknowledgement of 380 00:24:20.890 --> 00:24:24.850 people. So the project succeeded because of what 381 00:24:24.850 --> 00:24:28.650 you brought to it. Here's what you brought to it. Wrap ups at the 382 00:24:28.650 --> 00:24:32.170 end of all projects should have the leader 383 00:24:32.330 --> 00:24:35.850 actually acknowledging what each person brought to the project. 384 00:24:36.330 --> 00:24:39.610 And that is a way that you can actually directly see 385 00:24:40.010 --> 00:24:43.250 where your work, your direct influence, 386 00:24:43.970 --> 00:24:47.810 helped move something forward. Whether that was a decision, whether that was solving 387 00:24:47.810 --> 00:24:51.810 a problem, whether that was innovating. And with just 388 00:24:51.810 --> 00:24:55.570 simple words, you then feel energised and you want to 389 00:24:55.570 --> 00:24:59.250 contribute more. And that's actually the dopamine saying, 390 00:24:59.250 --> 00:25:02.690 hey, you know, what I do here matters. It's not just 391 00:25:02.930 --> 00:25:06.490 busy work, right? I'm creating value. And when the 392 00:25:06.490 --> 00:25:10.400 manager says, you know, you really helped us make a really good call, 393 00:25:11.520 --> 00:25:15.400 we couldn't have finished this without you. Those moments 394 00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:18.880 tell your brain, I'm not invisible, I have impact, 395 00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:23.560 I matter and I can keep going. And so then what happens 396 00:25:23.560 --> 00:25:27.480 is that you stay in the 397 00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:30.840 space knowing that you want to keep going and you want to keep 398 00:25:30.840 --> 00:25:34.800 contributing. And so when we look at contribution, 399 00:25:36.650 --> 00:25:40.410 that's really where we're looking at the engagement 400 00:25:40.410 --> 00:25:44.290 and the staying in things. Even when times are hard. You're 401 00:25:44.290 --> 00:25:48.130