WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.960 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold 2 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:16.720 conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of 3 00:00:16.720 --> 00:00:21.080 exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging and 4 00:00:21.080 --> 00:00:25.800 societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a 5 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:28.920 world? Remember, everyone not only belongs, but 6 00:00:28.920 --> 00:00:33.855 thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, 7 00:00:33.855 --> 00:00:38.736 challenge the status quo and share stories that resonate deep 8 00:00:38.736 --> 00:00:43.616 within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning 9 00:00:43.616 --> 00:00:48.589 coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect 10 00:00:48.589 --> 00:00:53.377 and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of 11 00:00:53.377 --> 00:00:56.099 the conversation too. Reach out to 12 00:00:56.099 --> 00:01:00.979 jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights 13 00:01:00.979 --> 00:01:05.485 or to join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and settle 14 00:01:05.485 --> 00:01:10.272 in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion 15 00:01:10.272 --> 00:01:15.230 Bites. And today 16 00:01:15.710 --> 00:01:20.630 is episode 221 with the title Inclusion Starts 17 00:01:20.630 --> 00:01:25.470 Within. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Monica 18 00:01:25.470 --> 00:01:30.230 Guzek. Monica is the founder of Joy Flow Lab, an intercultural 19 00:01:30.230 --> 00:01:33.110 trainer, researcher and leadership and business 20 00:01:33.110 --> 00:01:38.030 coach. She helps people lead, collaborate and thrive across cultural and generational 21 00:01:38.030 --> 00:01:40.910 differences with greater resilience and self 22 00:01:40.910 --> 00:01:45.780 awareness. When I asked Monica to describe her superpower, she said that it 23 00:01:45.780 --> 00:01:50.460 is her curiosity paired with joy, discovering different perspectives and 24 00:01:50.460 --> 00:01:54.260 learning how others see the world. Hello, Monica, welcome to the 25 00:01:54.260 --> 00:01:54.540 show. 26 00:01:55.180 --> 00:01:57.580 Hey, Jo, thank you so much for having me here. 27 00:01:58.780 --> 00:02:02.260 Fantastic. I mean, I think the last time I heard that introduction was probably the Eurovision Song 28 00:02:02.260 --> 00:02:04.300 Contest. Which part of the world are you from? 29 00:02:04.780 --> 00:02:08.227 So I'm coming from Western Poland. I was born in Zielona 30 00:02:08.227 --> 00:02:11.376 Góra. I know a lot of weird sounds, but I'm living in 31 00:02:11.376 --> 00:02:16.172 Poznan. However, I would say that my heart and mindset is very global because 32 00:02:16.172 --> 00:02:18.722 for the last 15 years I lived quite a lot of 33 00:02:18.722 --> 00:02:19.240 places. 34 00:02:20.200 --> 00:02:24.840 So for people who are listening to this, who aren't necessarily familiar with Poland, 35 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:29.560 it's grown rapidly or advanced rapidly as a culture since 36 00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:32.680 what, the late 80s, since the Solidarity movement, the forming of the Berlin 37 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:34.920 Wall. It's really accelerated, isn't 38 00:02:36.160 --> 00:02:36.440 is? 39 00:02:36.440 --> 00:02:41.320 So if last time you visited Poland, for example, in 90s, you would not recognise where you 40 00:02:41.320 --> 00:02:45.640 are now. So now we are, as you mentioned, one of the fastest and rapidly growing 41 00:02:46.200 --> 00:02:51.140 markets, very international touch, with a lot of international companies, 42 00:02:51.460 --> 00:02:56.180 great, you know, motorways and places to visit 43 00:02:56.180 --> 00:03:01.140 and see. So very safe. So I would say that, yeah, Poland, so a 44 00:03:01.140 --> 00:03:06.060 little bit changed the image, you know, in the eyes of foreigners, because a lot of people still 45 00:03:06.060 --> 00:03:09.300 remember, you know, our past and we are in completely different 46 00:03:09.380 --> 00:03:09.740 place. 47 00:03:09.740 --> 00:03:14.580 Now I would say a lot of people in the UK who are maybe 48 00:03:15.190 --> 00:03:19.990 culturally diverse still see people from Poland as being the 49 00:03:19.990 --> 00:03:24.510 cheap painters, the cheap decorators or the Polish produce shop on the 50 00:03:24.510 --> 00:03:29.470 corner. Because we have a large emerging Polish community in lots of parts of the 51 00:03:29.470 --> 00:03:34.390 uk. But people always associate Poland as being maybe that country stuck in the 52 00:03:34.390 --> 00:03:39.190 80s, stuck in that post Solidarity glasnost type 53 00:03:39.190 --> 00:03:44.130 era. But it's not like that anymore at all, is it? And the people are as rich and diverse as anywhere 54 00:03:44.130 --> 00:03:44.730 else in the world. 55 00:03:45.210 --> 00:03:50.170 Definitely. We need to remember that a lot of Polish people came to UK when you know, we 56 00:03:50.170 --> 00:03:53.610 joined European Union and then the borders 57 00:03:53.610 --> 00:03:57.770 open. So of course we were not self 58 00:03:57.770 --> 00:04:02.730 confident. We couldn't speak, you know, the proper language. So of course people 59 00:04:02.730 --> 00:04:06.730 were doing physical works and I would say this lower paid 60 00:04:06.730 --> 00:04:11.490 one. However, now when confident and knowing what they 61 00:04:11.490 --> 00:04:15.030 want, they are also now implying for higher 62 00:04:15.030 --> 00:04:19.670 positions. So we can see that even in Ikea, for example, one of the global 63 00:04:20.710 --> 00:04:25.270 positions, therefore European Union, for example, European market, it's holding by Polish 64 00:04:25.270 --> 00:04:27.910 person. So I would say that our images will 65 00:04:27.910 --> 00:04:32.230 change. Different people now start being visible in the market, in 66 00:04:32.550 --> 00:04:37.270 companies. Yeah. So I'm happy, I'm really happy about it because this is not only in 67 00:04:37.270 --> 00:04:40.710 UK everywhere. In the beginning of 2000, 68 00:04:43.330 --> 00:04:48.090 the one who were moving abroad, they were one who were wanting, you know, to have some incomes 69 00:04:48.090 --> 00:04:51.410 because in Poland that time we couldn't have the same 70 00:04:51.730 --> 00:04:52.370 salaries. 71 00:04:52.450 --> 00:04:57.290 Also is reflective of the fact that the Polish education system, the business, the commerces are 72 00:04:57.290 --> 00:05:02.250 developing people more so that the Polish people themselves are far more ready for a global market 73 00:05:02.250 --> 00:05:03.250 than they ever used to be. 74 00:05:03.730 --> 00:05:07.719 Definitely. I would say that we are even over educated a lot of 75 00:05:07.719 --> 00:05:12.256 time. It's a lot of time when I'm running workshops and people check my 76 00:05:12.256 --> 00:05:15.621 LinkedIn they ask me like Monica, when have you done 77 00:05:15.621 --> 00:05:20.472 this? And I was like, you know, this is when you are figuring out your wounds 78 00:05:20.472 --> 00:05:25.401 being post communist country and then wanting to be visible in the world and 79 00:05:25.401 --> 00:05:28.764 achieve something. So people just, you know, we are 80 00:05:28.764 --> 00:05:31.812 tough. So we always said like okay, we need to do 81 00:05:31.812 --> 00:05:36.739 it. So we were studying, you know, even me to be visible in the market, I had to 82 00:05:36.739 --> 00:05:41.590 finish the same two masters at the same time and have some extra jobs to have 83 00:05:41.590 --> 00:05:46.206 some experience and so on. And then when I moved to Germany, I had to, you 84 00:05:46.206 --> 00:05:49.882 know, kind of hide part of my education because it was too 85 00:05:49.882 --> 00:05:53.636 much. So I would say that we are educated, we speak several 86 00:05:53.636 --> 00:05:58.407 languages. However we have still, you know, our, I would say kind of shame 87 00:05:58.407 --> 00:06:03.257 that we don't have this British or American accent and that it's, you know, 88 00:06:03.257 --> 00:06:08.186 Slavic one. But, yeah, our position, I would say, changed and how we see even 89 00:06:08.186 --> 00:06:08.968 ourselves. 90 00:06:10.890 --> 00:06:14.930 I'm a great fan of the Slavic accent and the way you speak and it shows your 91 00:06:14.930 --> 00:06:19.030 culture. Um, I think if we all speak the same, we have the same accent, it 92 00:06:19.030 --> 00:06:23.110 doesn't. You can't surface your identity. Your accent opens a 93 00:06:23.110 --> 00:06:27.950 conversation. It gives me knowledge that you have different experiences to me, and I welcome 94 00:06:27.950 --> 00:06:29.270 that. That difference of accent. 95 00:06:29.590 --> 00:06:34.470 Yeah. I also love it. And I would say that I don't know how this came to me, but when I was a child, and of 96 00:06:34.470 --> 00:06:39.270 course then we didn't have Internet, I was always the one saying at school that why I need to speak 97 00:06:39.270 --> 00:06:41.790 with certain accent. This is my accent, this is my 98 00:06:41.790 --> 00:06:46.710 identity. I am not able to pronounce certain words, you know, natives, 99 00:06:46.710 --> 00:06:51.490 you. But this part of me, and I would say that this is beautiful, you know, asking, 100 00:06:51.490 --> 00:06:56.450 like, even, what is your background? Right. What. What is there? And sometimes even I'm laughing that some 101 00:06:56.450 --> 00:07:01.170 words are very challenging for me, but this is part of diversity, which we can 102 00:07:01.170 --> 00:07:03.890 embrace and just be enriched by 103 00:07:03.890 --> 00:07:04.210 this. 104 00:07:05.410 --> 00:07:10.250 But, yeah, you say that about maybe English, and I say that about Hebrew, 105 00:07:10.250 --> 00:07:13.050 I say that about Polish, I say that about Russian. 106 00:07:13.050 --> 00:07:15.840 Yeah. I look at these words and I don't know what 107 00:07:15.840 --> 00:07:20.120 they. I've got no idea what they say, let alone how to pronounce them. And I've met people where 108 00:07:20.440 --> 00:07:25.240 I'm trying to get their name right and it can really take me sort of three or four 109 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:30.160 minutes to practise the pronunciation, to be able to get those kind of the 110 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:33.120 rolling R's or the real depth of that 111 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:38.040 word. I think what you're saying here is that when we've grown up and learned to speak in 112 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:42.410 our younger years, we learn it with all those language rules and it's really hard to 113 00:07:42.410 --> 00:07:46.970 unlearn and to handle pronunciation of different 114 00:07:46.970 --> 00:07:51.250 letters and characters in other languages. It's hard to learn that, 115 00:07:52.130 --> 00:07:52.890 definitely. 116 00:07:52.890 --> 00:07:57.586 And even I had two funny, I would say, stories that some people can't recognise easily my 117 00:07:57.586 --> 00:08:02.285 accent. Even when I'm speaking Polish, they're trying to, you know, put me to different 118 00:08:02.285 --> 00:08:07.240 countries. But when I was living in China and I tried to learn Chinese, then immediately they 119 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:11.874 turned and said, like, are you from Poland? I was like, how are you going to recognise my 120 00:08:11.874 --> 00:08:14.962 Polish accent in China? Chinese language? This was. I was 121 00:08:14.962 --> 00:08:19.661 amazed. But the same with Portuguese, for example. So my friends were saying, like, you 122 00:08:19.661 --> 00:08:24.359 speak Portuguese, but from Lisbon. And I was like, I don't know, what is Portuguese from 123 00:08:24.359 --> 00:08:27.383 Lisbon? And then from Porto, for example. I don't see the 124 00:08:27.383 --> 00:08:32.015 difference. But, yeah, they are like some small nuances, which I would say that this is 125 00:08:32.015 --> 00:08:32.659 beautiful. 126 00:08:32.670 --> 00:08:37.550 Right? Yeah. I've had people from America believe that I'm from Australia 127 00:08:37.630 --> 00:08:42.470 with my accent. So I guess it depends on your cultural 128 00:08:42.470 --> 00:08:47.350 awareness of different languages and that way you think. But you're right. I remember being in 129 00:08:47.350 --> 00:08:52.270 Scotland, north of England, if anyone, or north of the uk, if I want to 130 00:08:52.270 --> 00:08:57.030 listen to this from outside. And I remember going into a restaurant, I think it was 131 00:08:57.030 --> 00:09:01.710 a Indian cuisine restaurant. I was really surprised that all of the waiters 132 00:09:02.670 --> 00:09:06.150 spoke with a Scottish accent. And it was like, of course you would. You live in 133 00:09:06.150 --> 00:09:10.670 Scotland. Why wouldn't you speak with a Scottish accent? But my brain was thinking you would speak 134 00:09:10.750 --> 00:09:13.930 maybe in a more Asian, Indian accent, but they 135 00:09:13.930 --> 00:09:18.730 weren't. And it's like, of course you were. Why wouldn't you? And if, even if you were, 136 00:09:18.730 --> 00:09:23.290 if you were of Polish heritage, living in the UK for all your life, you'd speak with a 137 00:09:23.290 --> 00:09:27.410 complete English accent. Of course you would. You just make assumptions that people are always going to speak that 138 00:09:27.410 --> 00:09:32.250 way. But I guess you would still inherit some of the pronunciation for maybe your parents 139 00:09:32.490 --> 00:09:36.570 who are native speakers, because those are your early influences, aren't 140 00:09:36.570 --> 00:09:36.770 they? 141 00:09:36.770 --> 00:09:40.890 I think that we shouldn't be simply ashamed how we speak. We should, you know, even be 142 00:09:40.890 --> 00:09:44.510 curious. This is what. What you even said, what makes me, being tapped, describe 143 00:09:44.510 --> 00:09:49.230 myself. So I've been curious, what is the background behind this? And a lot of time I hear like, yeah, we 144 00:09:49.230 --> 00:09:53.070 shouldn't ask even, you know, where you're coming from. But this is always what you said, it's our 145 00:09:53.070 --> 00:09:57.950 heritage. This is beautiful. Storeys which are, even through our language skills, we 146 00:09:57.950 --> 00:09:59.350 can embrace, we can see. 147 00:09:59.430 --> 00:10:04.150 Yeah, but that. That question about where, where are you from? It's very 148 00:10:04.150 --> 00:10:09.030 much dependent on your motivation. Is it? I. I want to know where you're from so I can 149 00:10:09.030 --> 00:10:13.310 find out more about you, so I can welcome you, so I can be more inclusive about you and understand what makes you 150 00:10:13.310 --> 00:10:17.150 happy. Or is it because I want to know where you're from so I can treat you less 151 00:10:17.150 --> 00:10:20.830 fairly? If the intention is positive, then why wouldn't you want to 152 00:10:20.830 --> 00:10:25.510 share? Because to be fair to the audience, you don't know this if you're listening to this 153 00:10:25.510 --> 00:10:30.390 podcast. We spent 20 minutes talking before we went live about your culture, your heritage 154 00:10:30.390 --> 00:10:33.790 and all the things that, you know, some of your upbringing in Poland, which to me is 155 00:10:33.790 --> 00:10:37.470 fascinating. I love finding out about people and 156 00:10:37.550 --> 00:10:42.470 for me it's the same. That's why I've heard two questions, even one, it's like, where are you coming 157 00:10:42.470 --> 00:10:47.330 from? And then you tell me as much as you want to tell me. Other question, which a lot of time 158 00:10:47.330 --> 00:10:51.930 my friends hear, like where you are truly coming from, you know, and then it's because, 159 00:10:52.170 --> 00:10:57.050 for example, the way how you look, your skin colour and so on, this is not associated with the place, 160 00:10:57.050 --> 00:11:01.090 which you said. But then I think it's too much. So people should share how much they want the 161 00:11:01.090 --> 00:11:05.970 same. For me it's when you ask me, so I'm from West Poland, but if we dig deeper, I would 162 00:11:05.970 --> 00:11:10.530 say that part of my family. So it's. It's from the western part, it's from Great 163 00:11:10.530 --> 00:11:15.210 Poland and 1/4 it's from Eastern Poland, which makes me even 164 00:11:15.290 --> 00:11:18.280 very diverse. So we, as a Polish, we are also 165 00:11:18.280 --> 00:11:23.080 diverse. So coming from different places, even if we name the city, it doesn't 166 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:27.760 mean almost nothing. Right. So. But people should have this space to share how much they 167 00:11:27.760 --> 00:11:28.080 want. 168 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:33.400 And Poland's a big country. We forget that. We just see it as this place in the middle of Europe 169 00:11:33.400 --> 00:11:37.160 somewhere. But it's a significantly large country, north, south, east and west, isn't 170 00:11:37.160 --> 00:11:37.440 it? 171 00:11:37.680 --> 00:11:42.400 Oh, it is. So, you know, from one part to another, I need to take a train and go eight hours or even 172 00:11:42.400 --> 00:11:47.320 more. So it is. And some I had last year and tried to discover 173 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:51.620 more places in Poland because, for example, I've never been in east. I was always saying this is too 174 00:11:51.620 --> 00:11:56.220 far. For me it was. It's easier even to catch a plane to go to Portugal or Spain 175 00:11:56.460 --> 00:12:00.100 than to go to other part of my country. I think Covid also changed 176 00:12:00.100 --> 00:12:04.700 this. More and more people decided to discover beauty of our own country, 177 00:12:05.100 --> 00:12:09.860 not just other places around the world. I think this is also coming from the hunger from, 178 00:12:09.860 --> 00:12:12.460 you know, communist time that the borders were 179 00:12:12.460 --> 00:12:15.620 closed. And then we. After that we didn't have that much money to 180 00:12:15.620 --> 00:12:19.230 travel. So then when we could, we just expand and start 181 00:12:19.230 --> 00:12:23.230 travelling. Yeah. But now I would say that more and more people also discovering Poland 182 00:12:23.230 --> 00:12:23.710 itself. 183 00:12:24.990 --> 00:12:29.950 It's a very old country. I remember visiting castles and it's 184 00:12:29.950 --> 00:12:34.870 a real history because that part of Europe, it suffered a lot of 185 00:12:34.870 --> 00:12:39.550 border changes, a lot of skirmishes, a lot of wars. I mean, I know the Ukrainian 186 00:12:39.550 --> 00:12:44.520 people are Poland nemesis. Aren't they your enemy with the Ukrainians, 187 00:12:44.520 --> 00:12:47.840 I think, or the other way around and not the 188 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:50.560 Germans. You were fighting east not fighting 189 00:12:50.560 --> 00:12:50.920 West. 190 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:56.080 Oh, west as well. So we have kind of joke which is, 191 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:59.600 you know, more sarcastic and just helping us to 192 00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:04.080 survive. It's that, you know, the God has an idea to put Poland between 193 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:07.720 Germany and Russia and then to see what's going to happen, you know. And our country, 194 00:13:09.490 --> 00:13:14.410 I would say, suffer a lot through all these years. Poland as a state was established 195 00:13:14.410 --> 00:13:19.330 in 962. So I would say we have quite, you 196 00:13:19.330 --> 00:13:23.170 know, long history, however, I would say difficult 197 00:13:23.170 --> 00:13:26.650 history. A lot of wars on our territory, a lot 198 00:13:26.650 --> 00:13:29.330 of. Yeah, things which were happening 199 00:13:29.730 --> 00:13:33.510 here. So we still have this in our mind, you know, this 200 00:13:34.780 --> 00:13:38.020 being, I would say in the lower position, but very 201 00:13:38.020 --> 00:13:42.065 influential in the 80s as the trigger for the Berlin Wall coming down, wasn't 202 00:13:42.065 --> 00:13:45.606 it? That was all the Solidarity movement. It was the uprising at the 203 00:13:45.606 --> 00:13:49.210 shipyard. That was the beginning, the end, if you like, of the Soviet 204 00:13:49.210 --> 00:13:49.580 Union. 205 00:13:49.900 --> 00:13:52.340 Yeah, yes. And we have the strong 206 00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:57.300 personalities. We fight for our freedom. So I would say freedom, it's something which 207 00:13:57.300 --> 00:13:59.900 you can really see in Polish 208 00:13:59.980 --> 00:14:04.820 nature. If we don't like something, we mostly say 209 00:14:04.820 --> 00:14:07.980 this so we are not quiet something 210 00:14:08.060 --> 00:14:12.740 what. I'm amazed even how strong we are that we need to remember that 211 00:14:12.740 --> 00:14:15.620 Poland was not existing on the maps for over 100 212 00:14:15.620 --> 00:14:20.100 years. Anyway. Our language is not influenced by other 213 00:14:20.100 --> 00:14:23.380 languages, culture, music, literature and so 214 00:14:23.380 --> 00:14:27.660 on. So I would say that this fight which is inside us, this strong 215 00:14:27.980 --> 00:14:32.810 toughness, I would say it's part of us, it's there sometimes it's bringing challenges when we 216 00:14:32.810 --> 00:14:37.450 work in, you know, globally, because then we. Our feedback is very direct and 217 00:14:37.450 --> 00:14:41.130 not each culture is able to deal with it. And we have 218 00:14:41.130 --> 00:14:45.050 our. We say it Polish smile. So, you know, quite poker face 219 00:14:45.130 --> 00:14:48.170 also. So people don't know what we are really 220 00:14:48.170 --> 00:14:52.930 thinking. And our language, for many international people, sounds like we are 221 00:14:52.930 --> 00:14:57.380 fighting that we are always angry, which is not true, but you know, it is how it 222 00:14:57.380 --> 00:15:00.140 is. This is the most questions which I'm asking, like, are 223 00:15:00.140 --> 00:15:04.060 you. Like, are you angry or you are not typical Polish? Like. Yeah, because I'm also a lot 224 00:15:05.260 --> 00:15:10.140 living and working with Latin cultures. I'm a little 225 00:15:10.140 --> 00:15:14.940 bit different. I'm not typical one. But yeah, something which, if you come to Poland and you see 226 00:15:14.940 --> 00:15:18.860 our faces sometimes we might look angry, but we are 227 00:15:18.860 --> 00:15:19.100 not. 228 00:15:19.260 --> 00:15:23.660 Yeah. When I. When we first started chatting, I asked you which part of the world you're from and 229 00:15:24.450 --> 00:15:28.930 you imply that your heart is now Portuguese, not 230 00:15:28.930 --> 00:15:29.410 Polish. 231 00:15:29.970 --> 00:15:34.930 Of course, in some part it's Polish. My friends, they are saying that I have Brazilian soul 232 00:15:34.930 --> 00:15:38.850 in Polish bodies. There is part of me which is very 233 00:15:39.010 --> 00:15:43.890 like. It's very Latino. When you are living in different cultures 234 00:15:43.890 --> 00:15:48.690 and speaking different languages, then you also embrace certain aspects of those 235 00:15:48.690 --> 00:15:52.070 cultures. Or maybe in other way. You're kind of 236 00:15:52.070 --> 00:15:56.630 hard. It's looking for something in different cultures. That's why we are attracted to certain 237 00:15:56.710 --> 00:16:00.710 places around the world. Some people go into Asian culture to Asia, 238 00:16:00.710 --> 00:16:04.630 right? Some going to UK, some to Germany, some to Portugal, 239 00:16:04.950 --> 00:16:09.590 etc. So in my heart I would say that Brazil and Portugal 240 00:16:09.590 --> 00:16:12.790 has like huge space. Then of course Poland because I'm 241 00:16:12.790 --> 00:16:17.350 Polish. But there's also part of me which I would say embracing a lot of German 242 00:16:17.430 --> 00:16:20.310 qualities. And this is related to history of my 243 00:16:20.310 --> 00:16:20.630 family. 244 00:16:21.430 --> 00:16:26.350 There's a danger when you are a child of the world, you've travelled and you've lived and you've been in 245 00:16:26.350 --> 00:16:31.110 lots of different places that you become diluted. Are there certain elements of who 246 00:16:31.110 --> 00:16:36.030 you are that are fundamental core values, 247 00:16:36.030 --> 00:16:40.150 if you like, and some bits that are kind of adaptive. What would you say were your core 248 00:16:40.310 --> 00:16:42.950 elements? What is your core Portuguese? What is your core 249 00:16:42.950 --> 00:16:45.830 Brazilian? Your core Polish? What are those things that 250 00:16:45.830 --> 00:16:48.410 you. Then you're non negotiables. If you like 251 00:16:48.810 --> 00:16:51.690 freedom. Freedom. Freedom. 252 00:16:54.490 --> 00:16:56.890 Well, I would say it's part of me. It's not 253 00:16:56.890 --> 00:17:01.850 negotiable. I am not able to live, you know, in the places where I don't feel that 254 00:17:01.929 --> 00:17:06.570 I'm. I'm free that free of choices, free of being able to speak, of course 255 00:17:06.570 --> 00:17:09.330 respecting boundaries and. And other 256 00:17:09.330 --> 00:17:12.890 people. But I would say that the freedom and this is part also of Polish 257 00:17:12.890 --> 00:17:16.870 culture. I would say the same Brazilian one that there is this common 258 00:17:16.870 --> 00:17:17.310 sense. 259 00:17:17.390 --> 00:17:21.870 When I introduced you, I talked about your curiosity paired with joy and how you 260 00:17:22.270 --> 00:17:26.470 welcome. Understand different perspectives. That's not always easy for many people, is 261 00:17:26.470 --> 00:17:29.750 it? The open themselves up to thinking about different 262 00:17:29.750 --> 00:17:33.950 perspectives. How do you tackle it as a person first and how do you encourage 263 00:17:33.950 --> 00:17:34.270 others? 264 00:17:35.630 --> 00:17:39.067 To be honest, I think that this is part of me which naturally 265 00:17:39.067 --> 00:17:43.904 happened. Even yesterday I was running a workshop and then I had one on one sessions 266 00:17:43.904 --> 00:17:48.044 with participants. Once this start opening themselves really easily 267 00:17:48.044 --> 00:17:51.271 and. And meanwhile they were saying like, but you know, 268 00:17:51.271 --> 00:17:54.427 I'm. I'm not able to share a lot of things about myself I 269 00:17:54.427 --> 00:17:59.194 like. But now you just. In few minutes you tell me your story and then a lot of you say 270 00:17:59.194 --> 00:18:04.035 like yeah, this is intuition. I can trust you. So I think that this is also something 271 00:18:04.035 --> 00:18:08.945 which naturally I have. I'm able to build trust and that I'm truly curious not just to 272 00:18:08.945 --> 00:18:13.713 use this Knowledge to, to do something. So sometimes we have this, this intuitive 273 00:18:13.713 --> 00:18:18.693 part which is saying I can trust this person or not. And this is mostly how I'm building 274 00:18:18.693 --> 00:18:23.603 business, how I'm working with people that I like to have this closeness and ability 275 00:18:23.603 --> 00:18:28.583 to see other person. Not just even when I working with big corporates, international 276 00:18:28.583 --> 00:18:33.284 one, then there's a human being in the end. So I would say that this is what makes me 277 00:18:33.284 --> 00:18:37.702 first just to see what is there. How can I help you? How can I serve the best for 278 00:18:37.702 --> 00:18:42.472 you? How we can together find this joy? And people are finding this just coming and 279 00:18:42.472 --> 00:18:46.678 saying, yeah, you are the person who can do it. I was like, perfect, thank 280 00:18:46.678 --> 00:18:46.950 you. 281 00:18:47.830 --> 00:18:52.710 You said human being in there, or paraphrase what you just said, and 282 00:18:52.790 --> 00:18:57.670 that is so important is to humanise is to feel, 283 00:18:57.910 --> 00:19:01.230 touch, embrace who somebody is. That's the real key, isn't 284 00:19:01.230 --> 00:19:01.510 it? 285 00:19:02.710 --> 00:19:06.710 And you know, with fast pace of life, a lot of time, we're forgetting about this, 286 00:19:06.710 --> 00:19:11.670 right? It doesn't matter what is our background and who we are 287 00:19:11.750 --> 00:19:15.390 at work, which role we have, which masks which we are 288 00:19:15.390 --> 00:19:19.970 wearing. Right? So we are human being, we have all feelings, we have some difficulties, 289 00:19:19.970 --> 00:19:24.810 challenges, we want to be seen, heard. So I think that this is something, what 290 00:19:24.810 --> 00:19:29.490 is the most important and even in diversity area where I'm of course 291 00:19:29.570 --> 00:19:32.770 also working, this is what I'm trying to show that this is not 292 00:19:32.770 --> 00:19:37.650 people. A lot of people are stressed that they use, you know, wrong sentence 293 00:19:37.650 --> 00:19:42.450 or wrong way of naming people. I said like just ask, it's okay to make 294 00:19:42.450 --> 00:19:47.330 mistake, but if you're coming from position, like what is the best for you, how we can 295 00:19:47.330 --> 00:19:48.620 find this connection. Right? 296 00:19:48.850 --> 00:19:53.170 Yeah, I think you're right there. You touched on something. I think you use the word stress 297 00:19:54.290 --> 00:19:59.250 and our brains behave differently when we're in certain frames of 298 00:19:59.250 --> 00:20:03.850 mind and stress. And we know that leaders, we know that managers, people in high pressure 299 00:20:03.850 --> 00:20:08.290 environments don't always react or 300 00:20:08.290 --> 00:20:12.970 communicate in the most effective way when they're stressed, aren't they? And so how do you encourage people 301 00:20:12.970 --> 00:20:15.500 to step out of that stress zone? 302 00:20:16.690 --> 00:20:21.610 I'm working also with polyvagal theory. So we are working on our nerve systems, you 303 00:20:21.610 --> 00:20:26.050 know, trying to slow down a little bit. When I'm working with people, I'm also bringing 304 00:20:26.530 --> 00:20:31.330 a lot of, I would say, experiences that they can find themselves in a new situation, 305 00:20:31.650 --> 00:20:35.170 but in a joyful way. So we're playing with 306 00:20:35.170 --> 00:20:39.970 Lego. So this is something, what we know from childhood or some, some people are still using this and 307 00:20:39.970 --> 00:20:44.930 it's great. But then we are building. We are able to describe even ourselves showing a little 308 00:20:44.930 --> 00:20:49.820 bit this the softness. So even naming things. This is what you now said that stress 309 00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:54.220 it's making us being back to I would say very basic 310 00:20:54.220 --> 00:20:59.180 skills. So we are just running or surviving and Right. So we are not very 311 00:20:59.500 --> 00:21:04.460 present in emotional level. And then when I name this even with people and we start 312 00:21:04.460 --> 00:21:08.980 working on calming down their nerve system the way how they are thinking, what are the 313 00:21:08.980 --> 00:21:13.900 projections there biases we have then we are finding out that this is not really about the person 314 00:21:14.510 --> 00:21:19.310 itself, you know with who they need to work. It's a lot of things which they heard from media which they 315 00:21:19.310 --> 00:21:22.150 saw somewhere. So they are like okay, let's break 316 00:21:22.150 --> 00:21:23.150 it. Let's be curious. 317 00:21:24.270 --> 00:21:29.110 We titled this episode Inclusion starts within. We have to understand self before we can understand 318 00:21:29.110 --> 00:21:29.950 others, don't we? 319 00:21:30.189 --> 00:21:34.350 Oh, of course. So before I would say that everybody should 320 00:21:34.350 --> 00:21:38.830 have. Even in primary school we should have some classes or I don't know 321 00:21:38.830 --> 00:21:43.750 courses which allowed us to communicate better to understand what we need 322 00:21:43.750 --> 00:21:48.230 to express our needs to deal with our emotions, with our 323 00:21:48.230 --> 00:21:53.110 angers. And I was. I'm happy to see that younger generations are more open 324 00:21:53.110 --> 00:21:57.910 to this that they are teaching even a lot of time leaders or parents right that 325 00:21:57.910 --> 00:22:02.630 hey I'm human, I have feelings, I want this. And others they are 326 00:22:02.630 --> 00:22:06.030 stepping, stopping themselves and saying like okay, now it's time for 327 00:22:06.030 --> 00:22:10.190 me. So it's in the reverse way now we are doing this than we should in my 328 00:22:10.190 --> 00:22:10.610 opinion. 329 00:22:12.120 --> 00:22:16.040 Yeah, I never realised that self awareness was a learned skill 330 00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:21.240 because I think you go through much of your life being self 331 00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:26.080 centred. You don't necessarily think about the needs of others. Even as leaders you 332 00:22:26.080 --> 00:22:29.440 often think about what I've got to worry about what the pressures are on 333 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:33.880 me. You're just there to. And it's not until you really truly understand 334 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:37.100 self. That's the first step for me is 335 00:22:37.100 --> 00:22:41.900 that understanding self lucidity depends something what I'm really 336 00:22:41.900 --> 00:22:46.580 seeing. It's that in some cultures some people are very self 337 00:22:46.580 --> 00:22:51.540 centric. So of course me and what I want and this is more in hierarchical 338 00:22:51.540 --> 00:22:56.300 societies. But then as well it's other part which people start focusing a lot on 339 00:22:56.300 --> 00:22:59.660 others. So they put themselves in the last 340 00:22:59.660 --> 00:23:03.260 position. So then as leaders they are overwhelmed because they are taking care of 341 00:23:03.260 --> 00:23:06.740 people. And a lot of time I'm hearing I feel like a parent for my 342 00:23:06.740 --> 00:23:09.640 employees. And then depending what kind of parent you are, 343 00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:14.040 right. If you're allowing them to make mistakes or you're controlling things. So I would say that this 344 00:23:14.040 --> 00:23:18.280 depends nowadays what I'm recognising as a pattern, it's also our 345 00:23:18.280 --> 00:23:23.000 education. So what we took from our school system, from our parents and so 346 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:27.440 on. In Polish society we were always taught do something for 347 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:30.520 others. You should be the last one. I was for example raised 348 00:23:30.520 --> 00:23:35.240 opposite. I'm the only child, so it's also different. And yeah, so then I have these 349 00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:40.230 two perspectives. So we need to find where to meet each other. I would say preferably in the middle but of 350 00:23:40.230 --> 00:23:43.030 course it's a lot of time challenging to find this middle 351 00:23:43.030 --> 00:23:43.470 spot. 352 00:23:44.510 --> 00:23:48.910 That's interesting. My wife is an only child and she often says 353 00:23:49.550 --> 00:23:54.110 she uses only child syndrome as a kind of a mantra for sort of 354 00:23:54.190 --> 00:23:59.110 sometimes the way she thinks. Do you find that being an only child you have 355 00:23:59.110 --> 00:24:01.630 a different perspective than people who are part of larger families? 356 00:24:02.510 --> 00:24:06.990 I would say yes, because I'm not patient. I never had to wait for something, 357 00:24:07.310 --> 00:24:10.290 I was the only one. So attention was always on 358 00:24:10.290 --> 00:24:15.050 me. And when I'm running workshops, sometimes leaders are laughing that ah, you are one 359 00:24:15.050 --> 00:24:18.850 of three kids. So you are used to wait or you are used to share 360 00:24:18.850 --> 00:24:23.530 things. I am not. I had to learn this, of course my parents did they, I would say 361 00:24:23.530 --> 00:24:28.490 homework and I had to always share things with my cousins and you know, not knowing 362 00:24:28.490 --> 00:24:33.450 that everything is mine. But we can see this, that for example Gen 363 00:24:33.450 --> 00:24:37.610 Z, right, they are mostly from only childs. And then it's very individual 364 00:24:38.590 --> 00:24:43.510 perspective, like I want this, I don't want to wait, find time for me because this is what we are 365 00:24:43.510 --> 00:24:48.430 used to at school, at home and so on. So of course we can't say that everything is 366 00:24:48.430 --> 00:24:53.270 related to this only child syndrome. But we can see that the way we 367 00:24:53.270 --> 00:24:57.070 were raised then of course it influenced who we are, how we are working after 368 00:24:57.070 --> 00:24:57.390 that. 369 00:24:57.550 --> 00:25:00.908 So fundamentally. So curiosity is obviously a big, a big 370 00:25:00.908 --> 00:25:05.624 factor. You've got to want to know about other people, you've got to want to know 371 00:25:05.624 --> 00:25:10.269 about other people's cultures. If you don't have that curiosity, you're not, 372 00:25:10.269 --> 00:25:12.913 you're never going to advance, develop or be 373 00:25:12.913 --> 00:25:15.698 open. But another thing you talk about is using 374 00:25:15.698 --> 00:25:19.128 joy. Joy is kind of, that's the foundation of your, of your 375 00:25:19.128 --> 00:25:23.629 business. Was it JoyFlow Lab? How does joy fit into this model of curiosity, 376 00:25:23.629 --> 00:25:25.917 Cultural awareness, self awareness, 377 00:25:25.917 --> 00:25:26.632 curiosity. 378 00:25:26.810 --> 00:25:29.610 We can see what is joyful for us and 379 00:25:29.610 --> 00:25:34.410 whatnot. And I'm always saying that even if things which we are doing and we don't like them, 380 00:25:34.410 --> 00:25:39.040 this is a sign for us like, like we don't need to go and do it and repeat this 381 00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:44.600 thing. So if you don't like running, for example, don't run. Find something which brings you 382 00:25:44.600 --> 00:25:49.280 this joy to do so. I would say that if I have a lot of access to my 383 00:25:49.360 --> 00:25:53.800 curiosity, openness to things, and then I can easily see what is bringing me this 384 00:25:53.800 --> 00:25:58.720 happiness. And even now, living in very fast paced times that where is a lot of 385 00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:03.440 changes, a lot of uncertainty. Well, a lot of words in the world which influence us 386 00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:08.280 daily. We need consciously bring joy to our life because we are 387 00:26:08.280 --> 00:26:12.920 stressed, we are stressed, we are sad, we are angry, joy. A lot of time we don't even 388 00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:17.840 recognise, we don't recognise the small moments. We don't recognise what even bringing 389 00:26:17.840 --> 00:26:22.680 us dissatisfaction. Even yesterday I had, you know, conversation with one person who was 390 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:25.840 going through a lot of challenges in the last year. I A little 391 00:26:25.840 --> 00:26:30.520 bit. It's a private, you know, connection. So I little push, like you need to go for 392 00:26:30.520 --> 00:26:35.160 massage, you need to do something for yourself. And this person didn't want, but in the end 393 00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:38.940 agrees like, okay, I would just do, you know that you let me 394 00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:42.220 live. And in the end they called me and said like, thank you so much that you did 395 00:26:42.220 --> 00:26:45.580 it. Now I see the difference in my life that I start 396 00:26:45.580 --> 00:26:49.940 doing. I start going to see people and so on. It's sometimes to have this, 397 00:26:50.420 --> 00:26:55.060 I would say, external factor which is bringing us joy. So for example, even with me, 398 00:26:55.140 --> 00:27:00.100 when I lived in Portugal, it was Covid time, so there was not 399 00:27:00.100 --> 00:27:02.980 a lot of uncertainty. I also finished my 400 00:27:02.980 --> 00:27:07.960 relationship. So. So, you know, in one moment it was something what I had to stop and say, 401 00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:12.760