WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.446 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold 2 00:00:11.446 --> 00:00:16.181 conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your 3 00:00:16.181 --> 00:00:20.360 guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of 4 00:00:20.360 --> 00:00:23.147 inclusion, belonging and societal 5 00:00:23.147 --> 00:00:27.975 transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a 6 00:00:27.975 --> 00:00:31.783 world? Remember, everyone not only belongs, but 7 00:00:31.783 --> 00:00:36.427 thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, 8 00:00:36.427 --> 00:00:41.256 challenge the status quo and share stories that resonate deep 9 00:00:41.256 --> 00:00:46.084 within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning 10 00:00:46.084 --> 00:00:51.004 coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect 11 00:00:51.004 --> 00:00:55.741 and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of 12 00:00:55.741 --> 00:00:58.434 the conversation too. Reach out to 13 00:00:58.434 --> 00:01:02.891 joanne.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your 14 00:01:02.891 --> 00:01:07.535 insights or to join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and 15 00:01:07.535 --> 00:01:11.992 settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with 16 00:01:11.992 --> 00:01:16.914 Inclusion Bites. And today is episode 222 with the title Latina 17 00:01:16.914 --> 00:01:21.651 Power Rising. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to 18 00:01:21.651 --> 00:01:26.573 welcome Vanessa Alonso. Vanessa is a visionary CEO, co founder 19 00:01:26.573 --> 00:01:31.218 and immigration attorney who empowers Latino communities 20 00:01:31.218 --> 00:01:36.046 through legal advocacy whilst helping Latina entrepreneurs 21 00:01:36.046 --> 00:01:38.460 live with courage, purpose and 22 00:01:38.460 --> 00:01:43.104 legacy. Asked Vanessa to describe her superpower, she said 23 00:01:43.104 --> 00:01:46.076 that it is redefining power the Latina 24 00:01:46.076 --> 00:01:48.862 way. Hello, Vanessa. Welcome to the 25 00:01:48.862 --> 00:01:49.326 show. 26 00:01:50.210 --> 00:01:52.130 Thank you, Jo. Thank you for having me. 27 00:01:53.090 --> 00:01:58.050 Absolute pleasure. I'm looking forward to this conversation. This is probably a topic I've 28 00:01:58.050 --> 00:02:01.930 never tackled before and I've got an expert sat opposite 29 00:02:01.930 --> 00:02:05.290 me. Sat opposite me. Directly opposite. Whereabouts in the world are 30 00:02:05.290 --> 00:02:05.570 you? 31 00:02:06.050 --> 00:02:07.890 I'm in San Antonio, Texas. 32 00:02:09.170 --> 00:02:13.890 Lovely. Is it lovely weather there at the moment? I always ask people, I must be British, I ask people about the weather all the 33 00:02:13.890 --> 00:02:15.320 time. Is it lovely? 34 00:02:15.320 --> 00:02:20.000 It's important. It dictates so much. We are having spring, as most are at this moment, and 35 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:23.240 it's been really nice. Allergies are extremely 36 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:27.880 high. That's the only problem. We are in a really, you know, unique part of Texas where 37 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:32.840 allergens are extremely high and it's, it's very surprising to most people that move 38 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:37.760 here and never experienced allergies before, but we're all, you know, sniffling and 39 00:02:37.760 --> 00:02:42.080 sneezing. But at least it's a, it's a community wide problem we face 40 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:45.480 altogether. But otherwise, yeah, the weather's been great for the last few 41 00:02:45.480 --> 00:02:45.800 days. 42 00:02:47.070 --> 00:02:50.670 So the allergies you talk about here, this is pollen, this is, this is the 43 00:02:50.670 --> 00:02:53.990 plant. And so it is, yes, we have 44 00:02:53.990 --> 00:02:58.590 something very unique called cedar fever, which is there's a certain cedar tree that with 45 00:02:58.590 --> 00:03:03.310 extreme weather changes, releases an exceptional amount of Pollen, all at 46 00:03:03.310 --> 00:03:06.950 once. So we often feel like we have flu like symptoms, but they're just 47 00:03:06.950 --> 00:03:11.150 allergies. So it's very unique to our, our region and it's not really 48 00:03:11.230 --> 00:03:15.950 split. Spoken about. So it's often a surprise to people that move to San Antonio, 49 00:03:15.950 --> 00:03:20.710 Texas that they begin to experience these symptoms they've never had before and they mistake them 50 00:03:20.710 --> 00:03:23.310 for colds. But it's not a cold, it's allergies. 51 00:03:24.030 --> 00:03:28.590 Allergies. Wow. Wow. I'm aware that, you know, and this is on a smaller scale, I'm sure 52 00:03:28.750 --> 00:03:33.590 we have rapeseed fields and in, in the spring when, in this sort of time of year when the wind blows and 53 00:03:33.590 --> 00:03:38.390 the pollen's flowing around, you can go for a drive and as you say, you suddenly feel 54 00:03:38.390 --> 00:03:41.110 kind of congested or your nose feels kind of. What's going on 55 00:03:41.110 --> 00:03:45.800 here? You're right, that's, that's, that's the allergens. And out with the antihistamine 56 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:48.960 tablets and the nasal spray. Nasal 57 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:52.400 spray. Nasal spray, yeah. But it's short lived whilst the pollen is 58 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:56.360 around. So hopefully in a month or so it's all. A bit of rain will dampen it 59 00:03:56.360 --> 00:03:56.600 down. 60 00:03:57.160 --> 00:04:00.240 Yeah. A small price to pay for the beauty of flowers and 61 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:00.680 nature. 62 00:04:00.920 --> 00:04:05.240 It is, it is. So what is the Latina 63 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:08.760 way? You know, as I read out your pal, what is the Latina 64 00:04:08.760 --> 00:04:09.040 way? 65 00:04:09.040 --> 00:04:12.200 The Latino way, to me is something new in our 66 00:04:12.200 --> 00:04:15.680 country. Latinos are 67 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:19.360 numerous. We are here with large families. We 68 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:24.280 dominate certain industries and it's often not from a place of 69 00:04:24.280 --> 00:04:27.960 power. It's normally from a place of serving the community or serving 70 00:04:27.960 --> 00:04:32.440 others. And what I found in starting my own practise as a lawyer in 71 00:04:32.440 --> 00:04:37.280 2017, and a lot of what I've had to overcome personally to be able 72 00:04:37.280 --> 00:04:41.930 to do so, is that culturally we're built to serve and help 73 00:04:41.930 --> 00:04:46.530 others. And culturally we haven't been given the tools or the 74 00:04:46.530 --> 00:04:51.450 resources to take that next step in saying, 75 00:04:51.450 --> 00:04:56.129 you know, I have ownership in this or I want to build upon my 76 00:04:56.129 --> 00:05:00.890 skills in serving people. And so to me, the Latino power is 77 00:05:00.890 --> 00:05:05.770 something I'm attempting to seed, if 78 00:05:05.770 --> 00:05:10.730 you will, in my community so that we can approach the world, what we 79 00:05:10.730 --> 00:05:15.070 do for a living, how we live our lives, from an empowered position 80 00:05:15.550 --> 00:05:18.870 as opposed to from a serving 81 00:05:18.870 --> 00:05:19.230 position. 82 00:05:19.310 --> 00:05:23.910 Yeah. I was chatting to someone this morning actually on the phone, and we were talking about this very same sort of 83 00:05:23.910 --> 00:05:28.430 concept, that when you are a marginalised or minority, 84 00:05:28.590 --> 00:05:32.990 you tend to be socially acceptable. If you're entertaining, 85 00:05:33.310 --> 00:05:36.070 playing sport, whatever it may be, or 86 00:05:36.070 --> 00:05:40.110 Serving. But as soon as you try and pull up a chair at the table, what are you doing 87 00:05:40.110 --> 00:05:44.860 here? What's your right to be here? And you say the power imbalances, you're fully accepted, 88 00:05:44.860 --> 00:05:49.500 fully welcomed, but one step down, not on a peer to peer 89 00:05:49.500 --> 00:05:53.260 basis. And that's, that's, that's what you're getting within your 90 00:05:53.260 --> 00:05:54.740 communities. Yeah. 91 00:05:54.740 --> 00:05:59.300 Yes, absolutely. When I wanted to start a business, 92 00:05:59.699 --> 00:06:04.580 even when I wanted to go to law school, you know, there were not many people that look like me that 93 00:06:04.580 --> 00:06:09.380 are in my family who can advise on these things. So that loneliness of being 94 00:06:09.380 --> 00:06:14.310 first generation professional, first generation business owner, it's prompted 95 00:06:14.310 --> 00:06:19.230 me to seek out, you know, what is out there. Maybe I couldn't find it, maybe it just wasn't in my 96 00:06:19.230 --> 00:06:22.430 vicinity, but maybe it's, you know, statewide, maybe it's 97 00:06:22.430 --> 00:06:27.310 nationwide. And I found many gaps. And what I've seen and loved about 98 00:06:27.310 --> 00:06:31.990 other cultures in the United States is that by leveraging their culture, their 99 00:06:31.990 --> 00:06:35.630 religion, their unity, their values, certain cultures in the US have really 100 00:06:35.630 --> 00:06:39.830 thrived. And I want the same for Latinos in the United 101 00:06:39.830 --> 00:06:44.590 States. I want us to utilise what we do best, which are, you know, strong family 102 00:06:44.590 --> 00:06:49.490 values, excellent work ethic, but do it to build something that serves 103 00:06:49.490 --> 00:06:54.450 us and no longer everyone else. And that's not to say that, you know, Latinos are 104 00:06:54.690 --> 00:06:59.330 any better or different than other people. It's just to say, I seen a blueprint 105 00:06:59.810 --> 00:07:04.290 that's available and we are not applying it. So I want to bring that 106 00:07:04.290 --> 00:07:09.090 conversation to the forefront about ownership, about leverage, about power, about 107 00:07:09.170 --> 00:07:11.410 economic and financial literacy, 108 00:07:11.650 --> 00:07:16.610 investing. There are so many things that we do not participate in traditionally that 109 00:07:16.610 --> 00:07:21.110 really have, have kept us from capitalising on our 110 00:07:21.110 --> 00:07:23.070 population in the United States. 111 00:07:23.230 --> 00:07:27.830 Picking up on what you said there is the challenge, your own limiting 112 00:07:27.830 --> 00:07:32.270 beliefs, or is it the power structures that fight back against you, or is it a bit of 113 00:07:32.270 --> 00:07:32.510 both? 114 00:07:32.989 --> 00:07:37.412 This is a great question. Latinos, we've suffered from several 115 00:07:37.412 --> 00:07:42.167 traditions, if you will. One is, you know, we have a machismo culture 116 00:07:42.167 --> 00:07:46.422 where males take a very dominant place in the family and males 117 00:07:46.422 --> 00:07:51.346 traditionally are, you know, protectors, providers, doers, while in 118 00:07:51.346 --> 00:07:53.850 my opinion, at least, women are more 119 00:07:53.850 --> 00:07:58.691 visionary. The ones with the ideas, the ones with the, the compassion 120 00:07:58.691 --> 00:08:03.614 or that foresight of what things could be. But in the Latino family, if a 121 00:08:03.614 --> 00:08:08.452 male is dominating and a woman's not given a plate or a voice, I believe 122 00:08:08.452 --> 00:08:12.541 that automatically sets us back. We have other parts of our 123 00:08:12.541 --> 00:08:16.963 culture. For example, you know, our history, and I'm of Mexican 124 00:08:16.963 --> 00:08:21.553 descent, so Our history in Mexico, where we basically relented to 125 00:08:21.553 --> 00:08:25.808 conquest in a way, for several reasons, you know, and how that 126 00:08:25.808 --> 00:08:30.565 tradition has passed on to us where we prefer to maybe assimilate and 127 00:08:30.565 --> 00:08:34.989 not fight, where family values and protection rank higher than 128 00:08:34.989 --> 00:08:38.661 brutality and fighting tooth and nail to keep what is 129 00:08:38.661 --> 00:08:43.000 ours. And I believe that that being passed down is what keeps us 130 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:47.006 humble. Humility is a huge pillar of our. Of our culture as 131 00:08:47.006 --> 00:08:51.760 well. You know, not wanting too much, being happy with what you have, 132 00:08:51.760 --> 00:08:56.516 strong belief in God and that God provides and not necessarily about 133 00:08:56.516 --> 00:09:01.273 what we deserve or what we have access to. And so it's a culmination of 134 00:09:01.273 --> 00:09:05.112 many things that have us where we are today in the United 135 00:09:05.112 --> 00:09:10.035 States. I think another large part is that due to prior deportations in 136 00:09:10.035 --> 00:09:14.374 the 80s, you know, like my parents and grandparents, although 137 00:09:14.374 --> 00:09:19.130 extremely Mexican in their DNA, and then at home in the public, there 138 00:09:19.130 --> 00:09:23.803 was an expectation of assimilation. So passing down the language, 139 00:09:23.803 --> 00:09:27.558 trying not to stand out too much as belonging to Mexico 140 00:09:27.558 --> 00:09:32.232 was. Was of concern. And so there's also been like a dilution of what 141 00:09:32.232 --> 00:09:36.821 makes us the most proud and what helps us anchor our identity in the 142 00:09:36.821 --> 00:09:41.662 United States. So there are many things that I've been discovering on 143 00:09:41.662 --> 00:09:46.584 my journey to figure out why myself. For example, why was I too scared to 144 00:09:46.584 --> 00:09:49.753 start my own law practise? Why was I too scared 145 00:09:49.753 --> 00:09:53.591 to. To do things that I saw other women that were lawyers 146 00:09:53.591 --> 00:09:58.513 doing? I would see I had a good business mentor and she would have an idea 147 00:09:58.513 --> 00:10:03.352 and she would implement it so quick. She would start like the next day, 148 00:10:03.352 --> 00:10:07.606 reading books about it, you know, getting her team together, 149 00:10:07.606 --> 00:10:12.195 brainstorming. And I would ponder the idea for months, sometimes 150 00:10:12.195 --> 00:10:15.533 years, kind of frozen, not ready to make a. Make a 151 00:10:15.533 --> 00:10:18.619 move. And I think it, with coaching and books 152 00:10:18.619 --> 00:10:23.460 and. And masterminds, I discovered that it's something unique to me, 153 00:10:23.460 --> 00:10:28.384 that if I have a worthiness issue, I'm unable to move forward as quickly 154 00:10:28.384 --> 00:10:31.303 as my friend, who and mentor, who is a white 155 00:10:31.303 --> 00:10:35.308 woman. You know, she didn't have the same upbringings as I 156 00:10:35.308 --> 00:10:39.731 did. She didn't have the same family dynamics that I did growing 157 00:10:39.731 --> 00:10:44.651 up. And so where she believes she saw a route and she's ready to take it, I 158 00:10:44.651 --> 00:10:47.819 saw a route and I had to stop and ponder, ask for 159 00:10:47.819 --> 00:10:52.241 opinions. I was never confident enough to take those steps on my 160 00:10:52.241 --> 00:10:57.164 own. So you bring up a. You bring up really great questions on this issue 161 00:10:57.164 --> 00:11:00.586 and it's really something I'm developing in real 162 00:11:00.586 --> 00:11:01.003 time. 163 00:11:01.550 --> 00:11:06.270 Do you find that the pushback is almost proportionate by your 164 00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:12.080 by who you are. There's a socially acceptable version of being 165 00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:14.800 you that fits into society. There's no 166 00:11:14.800 --> 00:11:19.440 pushback. You can blend, but as soon as you step forward that one step too many, that's where the 167 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:23.080 oppression is, the pushback is. Hang on a minute now. You want too 168 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:23.400 much. 169 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:27.800 Absolutely. And I can't say I've seen it 170 00:11:27.800 --> 00:11:32.520 directly. It's been indirectly. It's been access to resources, 171 00:11:32.600 --> 00:11:35.620 access to information I believe 172 00:11:35.620 --> 00:11:40.420 in. When I've tried to grow something or I tried to do something, the only people 173 00:11:40.420 --> 00:11:44.380 that have had the knowledge and the resources to help me have been 174 00:11:45.020 --> 00:11:49.860 other white people and not people of my own, not 175 00:11:49.860 --> 00:11:53.140 Latino people. And I love those people in my 176 00:11:53.140 --> 00:11:57.820 circle. I thank God for them because I would never even have an idea of that 177 00:11:57.820 --> 00:12:01.540 disparity if they were not here to support me to bridge that 178 00:12:01.540 --> 00:12:06.060 gap. But it's just interesting that when I'm looking for culturally 179 00:12:06.140 --> 00:12:11.100 aligned mentors, culturally aligned business people to advise me, 180 00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:16.340 it's very difficult to find them. If I'm not mistaken, it's very new to 181 00:12:16.340 --> 00:12:20.860 have Latinos in places of power, like on executive boards, 182 00:12:21.100 --> 00:12:25.660 owning businesses, owning companies and high ranking places at banks where 183 00:12:25.900 --> 00:12:30.860 decisions about loans are made. So I think we're just starting and I can't say that I've seen somebody 184 00:12:31.020 --> 00:12:35.860 push me down and say, no, you want too much. Yet I see trying to do 185 00:12:35.860 --> 00:12:40.660 things and not having, not having options because the options are 186 00:12:40.660 --> 00:12:44.740 not built for someone like me in mind. And they're 187 00:12:44.740 --> 00:12:49.580 not. There's no accommodation for something coming from where I'm coming from because we 188 00:12:49.580 --> 00:12:51.740 historically are not participating in those things. 189 00:12:51.980 --> 00:12:56.550 I often wonder if it's almost incumbent on those who are 190 00:12:56.550 --> 00:13:01.390 marginalised from minority backgrounds to create their own communities, their 191 00:13:01.390 --> 00:13:05.990 own businesses, their own infrastructure. Because trying 192 00:13:05.990 --> 00:13:10.750 to force your way into a traditional white dominated, male 193 00:13:10.750 --> 00:13:15.190 dominated world doesn't always work because you're always going to be playing that second 194 00:13:15.430 --> 00:13:20.030 person, you know, it's going to be the diverse candidate. Whereas if you create your own community, your own 195 00:13:20.030 --> 00:13:23.970 infrastructure, it may be smaller to start with, but at least it's 196 00:13:23.970 --> 00:13:28.850 yours. And then you can welcome people who you want and then compete with people 197 00:13:28.850 --> 00:13:29.890 from those other businesses. 198 00:13:30.050 --> 00:13:34.810 I am with that 100%. I think any marginalised community is best 199 00:13:34.810 --> 00:13:39.570 to work with others in that same community and to try to find the people 200 00:13:39.650 --> 00:13:44.130 with that similar mindset. Because when you're working within a marginalised community, 201 00:13:44.610 --> 00:13:49.410 there's only so many that are really at the forefront of trying to grow that community or 202 00:13:49.410 --> 00:13:54.190 build upon, you know, there's like belonging to a marginalised community. And then there's someone that wants to make an 203 00:13:54.190 --> 00:13:58.190 impact, you know, using that marginalised community for the marginalised 204 00:13:58.190 --> 00:14:03.070 community. So I would wholeheartedly agree that that's the best approach, is get with 205 00:14:03.070 --> 00:14:07.310 people that are like you and that can relate to your marginalisation, 206 00:14:08.190 --> 00:14:12.990 who want to be leaders and want to make a difference. And that is truly the best place to 207 00:14:12.990 --> 00:14:17.950 start now, eventually, once that marginalised community has grown and with certain 208 00:14:17.950 --> 00:14:22.670 members doing certain things at certain levels, like now, that impact can 209 00:14:22.670 --> 00:14:26.970 grow, that impact can spread. And seen communities that have been 210 00:14:26.970 --> 00:14:31.650 marginalised historically, who now have an exceptional amount 211 00:14:31.650 --> 00:14:36.490 of authority and influence over countries, over politics, over 212 00:14:36.970 --> 00:14:41.890 income, you know, and that's something that I ponder about, like, you 213 00:14:41.890 --> 00:14:46.610 know, what are the proper steps to utilise what us as 214 00:14:46.610 --> 00:14:51.490 Latinos have the best going for us so that we can grow, so that we can depend 215 00:14:51.490 --> 00:14:56.320 on ourselves and create an ecosystem where we're feeding back into our own wellbeing, 216 00:14:56.870 --> 00:15:00.790 so that we can improve our position in a place like the United 217 00:15:00.790 --> 00:15:01.190 States. 218 00:15:02.950 --> 00:15:07.710 If you look globally at the moment, and it's not just the us, there's a pushback 219 00:15:07.710 --> 00:15:10.710 against immigration. I see it in the uk, I see it in Europe, 220 00:15:11.590 --> 00:15:16.510 obviously. I see it in the news in the us, what's going on, especially 221 00:15:16.510 --> 00:15:21.190 around your communities, are being targeted. Specifically, what 222 00:15:21.190 --> 00:15:25.220 scares people around about immigration? Why are people 223 00:15:25.220 --> 00:15:25.620 scared? 224 00:15:26.740 --> 00:15:31.140 People are scared of change. I believe people in the United States who are anti 225 00:15:31.220 --> 00:15:36.020 immigrant fear that with the growing number of newcomers, 226 00:15:36.020 --> 00:15:40.940 it will change the status quo, that there will be more influence, there'll be different 227 00:15:40.940 --> 00:15:45.860 interests that don't align, maybe with the same interests that have held power for a long period 228 00:15:45.860 --> 00:15:50.420 of time in the United States. I think there's a term and I'll have to look it up, 229 00:15:51.350 --> 00:15:55.030 I believe it's called the replacement theory, if I'm not mistaken. So there's a fear of being 230 00:15:55.030 --> 00:15:59.830 replaced. There's a fear that too many Latino immigrants 231 00:15:59.830 --> 00:16:04.670 or immigrants from different cultures will overwhelm what's currently occurring and that 232 00:16:04.670 --> 00:16:08.710 the people that have power today could lose that. And I've seen that, 233 00:16:09.350 --> 00:16:14.150 because with immigration, especially as an immigration attorney, if I have 234 00:16:14.470 --> 00:16:19.200 clients who are now obtaining legal status, right, a green card is 235 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:21.760 one step away from the United States 236 00:16:21.760 --> 00:16:26.520 citizenship. So once you're on that path, if I allow someone to get here and then 237 00:16:26.520 --> 00:16:31.200 they can apply for green card status and then citizenship status, I'm almost 238 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:35.600 allowing somebody else to get that power to vote in the 239 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:39.920 future. And because our political system 240 00:16:40.400 --> 00:16:45.320 has one side has been showing extreme, not, I want to say leniency, but 241 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:49.790 more one side. Obviously Democrats have shown more support 242 00:16:50.030 --> 00:16:54.750 of immigrant dreams and immigrant, the immigrant process in the United 243 00:16:54.750 --> 00:16:59.710 States compared to others. I believe there's a fear that new 244 00:16:59.870 --> 00:17:04.710 green card holders that become U.S. citizens will definitely be democratic in nature and 245 00:17:04.710 --> 00:17:09.590 vote blue and change power. So that's just from my perspective 246 00:17:09.590 --> 00:17:11.950 as an immigration lawyer, what I've seen, I 247 00:17:11.950 --> 00:17:16.749 saw a stat recently around globally, our population is not 248 00:17:16.749 --> 00:17:21.429 growing anymore. We're having less children, less babies 249 00:17:22.949 --> 00:17:27.749 per capita than we've ever done in the past. The danger with that is that we're 250 00:17:27.749 --> 00:17:32.509 becoming an ageing population. I'm not sure what the stats are in the US but 251 00:17:32.509 --> 00:17:37.469 certainly in the UK and Europe. Before long, we will be in a situation where we 252 00:17:37.469 --> 00:17:42.320 need more young people to better fund pensions and keep this 253 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:47.200 super majority of people over 50 paid for somehow looked 254 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:52.040 after. And the danger with having a falling birth rate is 255 00:17:52.040 --> 00:17:56.320 we've got nobody to replace the older generation. So in fact, immigration 256 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:01.720 is going to be essential, or migration is going to be essential to ensure we're taking the 257 00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:06.560 good resource from somebody else and putting it to our country. Otherwise, we're going to be in a situation where we've got 258 00:18:06.560 --> 00:18:11.040 this big gap, we've got a knowledge gap, we've got a skills gap, and we've got a resource 259 00:18:11.040 --> 00:18:15.240 gap. And so migration, immigration must be seen as a good 260 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:15.560 thing. 261 00:18:16.040 --> 00:18:20.880 It absolutely should be. Especially when certain cultures, for example, for example 262 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:25.800 Latino cultures, the majority of roles that we take in the United States are 263 00:18:25.800 --> 00:18:30.760 caregiver roles. So if we have an ageing US Population and we're limiting the people that 264 00:18:30.760 --> 00:18:35.750 come to this country to care for children, to care for elderly, then 265 00:18:35.750 --> 00:18:39.990 that is definitely a disservice to our future. And I agree that 266 00:18:40.390 --> 00:18:45.030 countries that are not able to provide for their population, that 267 00:18:45.030 --> 00:18:49.550 suffer their population coming to another place that that is, can be seen as a benefit to 268 00:18:49.550 --> 00:18:53.750 us. And historically has been, I mean, we've been a, a beacon of hope for immigrants 269 00:18:54.710 --> 00:18:59.670 since our onset, you know, since we began. That is literally how we came to be as a 270 00:18:59.670 --> 00:19:03.820 country. And so to come away from that without understanding the consequences is 271 00:19:04.450 --> 00:19:05.690 definitely concerning. 272 00:19:05.690 --> 00:19:10.490 But US citizens are happy to spring break it in TJ or nip across the border 273 00:19:10.490 --> 00:19:15.410 and enjoy the Latina culture. Yeah, but don't, don't come, don't bring it north 274 00:19:15.410 --> 00:19:19.290 with you is what almost what they're saying, isn't it? We want to come and visit you but don't want you to live 275 00:19:19.290 --> 00:19:19.570 here. 276 00:19:19.889 --> 00:19:23.348 Exactly. I remember during the Black Lives Matter 277 00:19:23.348 --> 00:19:27.960 protest. You know, years ago somebody said you like, you love black 278 00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:32.900 culture, but you don't love black people. And that has resonated with me 279 00:19:32.900 --> 00:19:37.593 because I see the amount of Latinos, especially Mexican culture, be 280 00:19:37.593 --> 00:19:41.793 celebrated, enjoyed, loved. Kristjen, who was the leader of 281 00:19:41.793 --> 00:19:46.733 Department of Homeland Security, dressed up, you know, as a Mexican for 282 00:19:46.733 --> 00:19:51.590 some event or something and it's just like, wow, like that is so painful 283 00:19:51.590 --> 00:19:56.448 to on one hand really celebrate the culture but not see the humanity and 284 00:19:56.448 --> 00:20:01.223 the people that are part of that culture. Those people are part of your 285 00:20:01.223 --> 00:20:05.833 communities. We have undocumented people, undocumented parents 286 00:20:05.833 --> 00:20:10.526 getting rounded up and deported and children are left at school like 287 00:20:10.526 --> 00:20:13.820 those children are in the schools with American 288 00:20:13.820 --> 00:20:18.431 children. So this is not that far away. Even if you have no one in your 289 00:20:18.431 --> 00:20:22.793 family that has a lack of immigrant status, you have many people 290 00:20:22.793 --> 00:20:27.322 adjacent and in your community and you are affected, even at least 291 00:20:27.322 --> 00:20:30.615 indirectly. So I agree with you, it's very, it's 292 00:20:30.615 --> 00:20:35.144 funny. And I myself love to go to Mexico and I see how many, you know, 293 00:20:35.144 --> 00:20:37.614 Americans enjoy Mexican culture in 294 00:20:37.614 --> 00:20:42.389 Mexico. So I'm with you. And the amount of misunderstanding about the 295 00:20:42.389 --> 00:20:47.081 process in general, like believing that it's just about filling out 296 00:20:47.081 --> 00:20:51.527 paperwork and it's so easy. Why, why, why are, why would anyone be 297 00:20:51.527 --> 00:20:56.301 undocumented? Is often a question. Because there's a belief that the 298 00:20:56.301 --> 00:21:01.241 system is accessible and easy to navigate, but the rules are very strict 299 00:21:01.241 --> 00:21:06.017 and often the people that are here don't have, don't have eligibility 300 00:21:06.017 --> 00:21:10.956 for the methods that exist at the moment, but they're here working with, 301 00:21:10.956 --> 00:21:15.896 for lower wages. They're supporting our community in a way by providing 302 00:21:15.896 --> 00:21:20.591 labour that no other American wants to do. You know, Americans don't 303 00:21:20.591 --> 00:21:25.366 want to pick vegetables, they don't want to work in restaurants, they 304 00:21:25.366 --> 00:21:29.812 don't want to clean houses, they don't want to care for elderly or 305 00:21:29.812 --> 00:21:34.422 children because often that's very labour intensive work with low 306 00:21:34.422 --> 00:21:36.480 pay. And so yeah, I'm with you. 307 00:21:37.280 --> 00:21:41.880 Do you see the situation where you have the. I'm just trying to think of a way to 308 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:46.520 describe. So people who are white, white 309 00:21:46.520 --> 00:21:49.280 people who live in poverty or near 310 00:21:49.280 --> 00:21:54.090 poverty. Their argument is that people are taking their jobs, people are taking 311 00:21:54.090 --> 00:21:58.650 their right, but these people themselves aren't putting them into those 312 00:21:58.650 --> 00:22:01.930 positions or not educating themselves or not putting them into those 313 00:22:02.730 --> 00:22:07.570 roles. They're still saying, well actually that's still beneath me, I have 314 00:22:07.570 --> 00:22:11.370 nothing, I'm going to blame somebody else for taking it, but I'm still not going to step 315 00:22:11.370 --> 00:22:15.530 forward. It becomes that Sort of self fulfilling. I'm going to moan about it, but I'm not going to do anything about 316 00:22:15.530 --> 00:22:15.680 it. 317 00:22:16.550 --> 00:22:20.630 Absolutely. You know, I did a migrant farm worker programme when I was in law 318 00:22:20.630 --> 00:22:24.670 school. I had to visit 150 migrant farm worker camps in 319 00:22:24.670 --> 00:22:29.590 Ohio. And some of the farmers and the owners that I met, they would pay what's 320 00:22:29.590 --> 00:22:34.310 called a prevailing wage, which means there's an immigration programme where you can bring in workers 321 00:22:34.390 --> 00:22:38.870 to do agricultural work. One farm in particular did cabbage and they would bring in 322 00:22:38.950 --> 00:22:43.640 Brazilians to pick the cabbage. And that farmer said, I am happy to pay the 323 00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:47.040 prevailing wage, which means it's way over minimum 324 00:22:47.040 --> 00:22:52.000 wage. Because the work ethic is so different from the people that 325 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:56.760 come here from another country to do the job than all the times that I've tried to 326 00:22:56.760 --> 00:23:00.240 hire somebody, an American, who said, I want to try it, I want to do 327 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.440 it. You know, they often don't last. It's backbreaking 328 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:07.890 work. They don't want to continue. It's difficult because it's not what they're used 329 00:23:07.890 --> 00:23:12.490 to. I've heard that from several owners that they prefer Latino 330 00:23:12.490 --> 00:23:17.290 labour because of the work ethic. So I agree with you, someone to blame, that 331 00:23:17.290 --> 00:23:22.130 there's no jobs when the jobs that Americans prefer to take 332 00:23:22.130 --> 00:23:25.810 are not jobs historically taken by undocumented 333 00:23:25.810 --> 00:23:30.130 people. You know, it's difficult. There's, there's a language barrier, there's an education 334 00:23:30.370 --> 00:23:34.620 barrier. And so most Latino immigrants are 335 00:23:34.700 --> 00:23:39.580 pigeonholed into doing what has historically been done by that community 336 00:23:39.580 --> 00:23:43.860 in the United States or they're coming to stay with a family member. And that's the connection they 337 00:23:43.860 --> 00:23:48.699 have. You know, come work in the restaurant with me, come pick vegetables with me, come 338 00:23:48.699 --> 00:23:53.380 help me in my cleaning business, or help, help a friend or somebody that owns a 339 00:23:53.380 --> 00:23:58.260 cleaning business. And so we see a continuation of like traditional jobs and 340 00:23:58.260 --> 00:24:03.180 roles that Latinos take in the United States. And I have yet to see Americans step up to say, 341 00:24:03.830 --> 00:24:08.750 we will take care of the elderly, we will take care of the children, we will clean the houses, we will pick the 342 00:24:08.750 --> 00:24:12.470 vegetables, we will cook in the restaurants. I have yet 343 00:24:13.830 --> 00:24:14.550 to see that. 344 00:24:14.550 --> 00:24:19.470 Is there a hierarchy of immigrant where you have a good 345 00:24:19.470 --> 00:24:24.310 immigrant, a bad immigrant, a Portuguese speaking immigrant, versus a Spanish speaking immigrant, 346 00:24:24.710 --> 00:24:29.430 a Dominican Republic, a Costa Rican, a Colombian or a Mexican is 347 00:24:29.430 --> 00:24:32.010 a. Or do people just go immigrant? 348 00:24:32.010 --> 00:24:36.610 That's a great question. I would say that the racism towards immigrants from my 349 00:24:36.610 --> 00:24:41.290 perspective, and it could be just because I reside in Texas, maybe if I resided in Miami, 350 00:24:41.290 --> 00:24:45.490 Florida, it would be different. But I see much more 351 00:24:45.810 --> 00:24:50.610 negative rhetoric towards Mexican immigrants in comparison 352 00:24:50.610 --> 00:24:53.690 to other cultures. So I don't see it as 353 00:24:53.690 --> 00:24:57.850 much. And I mean, that could be based on my. On my geographic location, 354 00:24:58.410 --> 00:25:03.210 but the jokes. And when you see someone saying, I'm going to call ICE on you, it's normally 355 00:25:03.210 --> 00:25:08.130 involving someone of Mexican descent. I have yet to see it for others, but I'm sure 356 00:25:08.130 --> 00:25:12.770 it's happening just based on someone not understanding someone's true descent and 357 00:25:12.770 --> 00:25:15.650 hearing them speak Spanish and maybe making those 358 00:25:15.650 --> 00:25:20.330 comments. So maybe it's not necessarily a hierarchy in the cultures, but I believe the 359 00:25:20.330 --> 00:25:25.290 hierarchy exists with the language. If somebody does not speak English in the United States and is speaking Spanish, 360 00:25:25.730 --> 00:25:30.050 the chances of them encountering racism brought on by this new 361 00:25:30.130 --> 00:25:33.730 administration and their enforcement priorities, it's very 362 00:25:33.730 --> 00:25:38.650 high. I've experienced it myself. I've been practising immigration law for 363 00:25:38.650 --> 00:25:43.250 15 years. I've lived in Texas my whole life. And I was recording content 364 00:25:43.490 --> 00:25:48.330 in front of the USCIS building, which is the office that handles all the applications, 365 00:25:48.330 --> 00:25:51.530 right. U.S. citizenship and Immigration Services. So it's a public 366 00:25:51.530 --> 00:25:56.250 building. I have clients going there daily. I chose to set up in front of the building 367 00:25:56.410 --> 00:26:00.850 to record some comment about what's happening today that's different from last 368 00:26:00.850 --> 00:26:05.290 year. And this Honda Civic drove close to 369 00:26:05.290 --> 00:26:10.170 me. It's myself, my videographer, I have my personal assistant 370 00:26:10.170 --> 00:26:13.410 helping me with the scripting and so 371 00:26:13.410 --> 00:26:16.850 forth. And we're all dressed very professionally. We don't look like day 372 00:26:16.850 --> 00:26:21.820 labourers. I look the same way I look right now. And this Honda Civic slowed 373 00:26:21.820 --> 00:26:26.380 down and said, ICE is coming for all of you, like, in the most mean, 374 00:26:26.540 --> 00:26:31.380 aggressive voice, and drove away. And I was like, wow, the 375 00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:35.620 assumption that I am Mexican and undocumented, or just Latina and 376 00:26:35.620 --> 00:26:40.580 undocumented, is wild, you know, at the moment, based on the 377 00:26:40.580 --> 00:26:45.020 circumstances. And so it's almost like if that person is just waiting for 378 00:26:45.020 --> 00:26:49.890 opportunities to hurt people or say hurtful things based on what 379 00:26:49.890 --> 00:26:51.130 they assume about that person. 380 00:26:51.930 --> 00:26:55.690 But that is the playbook from some political 381 00:26:57.130 --> 00:27:00.570 angle, isn't it? You're not trying to engage with the person, you're not trying to do 382 00:27:00.570 --> 00:27:05.370 anything. You're just trying to dehumanise, stereotype and categorise 383 00:27:05.370 --> 00:27:09.930 people as being other. And that's really what it is, whether you're documented or 384 00:27:09.930 --> 00:27:14.610 undocumented. The message is, I'm going to accuse you of that because I know it hurts you and I know it 385 00:27:14.610 --> 00:27:14.970 damages 386 00:27:14.970 --> 00:27:19.950 your standing and it puts you at risk. If you are undocumented, it absolutely puts 387 00:27:19.950 --> 00:27:20.550 you at risk. 388 00:27:21.270 --> 00:27:25.252 And people are Going to challenge you first, not believe you 389 00:27:25.252 --> 00:27:29.234 first. Rather than just walking by, they're going to go, oh, 390 00:27:29.234 --> 00:27:32.977 okay. A law enforcement officer might go, oh, let me just 391 00:27:32.977 --> 00:27:35.924 check. Can I just see your driving licence or 392 00:27:35.924 --> 00:27:38.630 something? Yeah, it might, absolutely. 393 00:27:38.630 --> 00:27:41.988 Or it's that. It's literally just that yielding of 394 00:27:41.988 --> 00:27:46.387 power. If you by chance are undocumented and I utter those words, I 395 00:27:46.387 --> 00:27:50.946 automatically have the upper hand. You know, you see these videos on 396 00:27:50.946 --> 00:27:55.743 social media of neighbours having, having arguments and right away, if 397 00:27:55.743 --> 00:28:00.378 one neighbour happens to be Latino looking, Spanish speaking, those 398 00:28:00.378 --> 00:28:04.936 words about legal status, about calling ice, it's, it's really sad, 399 00:28:04.936 --> 00:28:09.413 honestly, because it truly is, it does create a difference in power 400 00:28:09.413 --> 00:28:12.930 automatically, that conversation or bringing that 401 00:28:12.930 --> 00:28:16.448