WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.310 Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold 2 00:00:11.310 --> 00:00:15.888 conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your 3 00:00:15.888 --> 00:00:20.827 guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, 4 00:00:20.827 --> 00:00:22.622 belonging and societal 5 00:00:22.622 --> 00:00:27.292 transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a 6 00:00:27.292 --> 00:00:30.972 world? Remember, everyone not only belongs, but 7 00:00:30.972 --> 00:00:35.461 thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, 8 00:00:35.461 --> 00:00:40.128 challenge the status quo and share stories that resonate deep 9 00:00:40.128 --> 00:00:44.795 within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning 10 00:00:44.795 --> 00:00:49.553 coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect 11 00:00:49.553 --> 00:00:54.400 and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the 12 00:00:54.400 --> 00:00:56.734 conversation too. Reach out to 13 00:00:56.734 --> 00:01:01.583 jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or 14 00:01:01.583 --> 00:01:05.714 to join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and settle 15 00:01:05.714 --> 00:01:10.293 in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion 16 00:01:10.293 --> 00:01:15.230 Bites. And today 17 00:01:15.710 --> 00:01:20.220 is episode 223 with the title Steady Leadership Under 18 00:01:20.220 --> 00:01:24.300 Pressure. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Shalece 19 00:01:24.300 --> 00:01:29.180 Daniels. Shalis is an executive rest strategist and the founder 20 00:01:29.180 --> 00:01:34.020 of Live as if company who teaches leaders how to downshift their nervous systems 21 00:01:34.020 --> 00:01:38.580 in 90 seconds or less to communicate and stay 22 00:01:38.580 --> 00:01:43.020 steady. Decisions that land clearly and with psychological safety is protected 23 00:01:43.420 --> 00:01:48.320 even under pressure. When I asked Shalise to describe her superpower, she said it is her 24 00:01:48.320 --> 00:01:53.200 ability to translate what is happening in the body into clear, practical actions 25 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:58.000 in plain language so people can get their brains back online fast and lead 26 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:00.960 with integrity. Hello, Charlise. Welcome to the show. 27 00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:03.280 Hey there, Joanne. Thank you for having me. 28 00:02:03.360 --> 00:02:06.000 Absolute pleasure. Absolute pleasure. Whereabouts in the world are you? 29 00:02:06.320 --> 00:02:10.720 I am in the Motor City Motown. Motor City, Detroit, 30 00:02:10.720 --> 00:02:15.600 Michigan and the Midwest. And we're trying to break into spring right 31 00:02:15.600 --> 00:02:20.060 now. As I look out my my window and I see my flowers against these barren 32 00:02:20.220 --> 00:02:23.100 tree branches. But at least my orchids are coming 33 00:02:23.100 --> 00:02:23.420 back. 34 00:02:23.900 --> 00:02:26.820 Oh, orchids. Beautiful. I love a good 35 00:02:26.820 --> 00:02:31.500 orchid. So you grow them in bowls of water or 36 00:02:31.900 --> 00:02:32.779 do you grow them outside 37 00:02:32.780 --> 00:02:37.420 or pots in my house? Can't do it outside because of the 38 00:02:37.820 --> 00:02:42.260 four seasons and they would go dormant and probably die because we get such a deep 39 00:02:42.260 --> 00:02:47.090 freeze. But I grow them right on this little bay window that I can look at 40 00:02:47.090 --> 00:02:49.650 outside of my office here in 41 00:02:49.730 --> 00:02:53.690 Potts. And I have two one I bought myself and one my daughter gifted me for my 42 00:02:53.690 --> 00:02:54.210 birthday. 43 00:02:55.010 --> 00:02:59.970 Ah, fabulous. If you're listening to this podcast, you think we've just started, but actually we've 44 00:02:59.970 --> 00:03:04.690 been yakking away now for about 35, 40 minutes getting to know each other before 45 00:03:04.770 --> 00:03:09.580 I press the record button and we Spent most of that time talking about puppies and dogs, 46 00:03:09.580 --> 00:03:14.340 didn't we? You're getting a new puppy 47 00:03:14.340 --> 00:03:15.060 soon. Yeah. 48 00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:19.540 Yes. A family member. She's a year and a half. She doesn't feel like a 49 00:03:19.540 --> 00:03:23.180 puppy. She's about 45 pounds, 42 to 45 50 00:03:23.180 --> 00:03:28.060 pounds. She's a rescue, a pit bull mix. She was abused and we just found out 51 00:03:28.060 --> 00:03:31.900 that she has an ACL injury. And so that'll be operated 52 00:03:31.900 --> 00:03:36.670 on. We won't know anything about what the care looks like 53 00:03:36.670 --> 00:03:40.270 until after the specialist lets us know 54 00:03:40.270 --> 00:03:44.270 this. This week. Everything seems so real now, 55 00:03:44.270 --> 00:03:48.950 Joanne. It's like, okay, the dog, but we're gonna get the 56 00:03:48.950 --> 00:03:53.150 dog. But then now she has to have surgery. And that puts another layer on top of 57 00:03:53.390 --> 00:03:57.030 caring because I'm like, oh, yeah, that's right. They get sick 58 00:03:57.030 --> 00:03:59.470 sometimes. They need medication, they need 59 00:03:59.710 --> 00:04:02.270 surgery. We need dog insurance. 60 00:04:02.430 --> 00:04:05.710 It's. It's real. But I'm already in love with Shiitake, 61 00:04:06.570 --> 00:04:06.810 so. 62 00:04:07.050 --> 00:04:09.850 And it's a fantastic name, isn't it? Fantastic Name of Shiitake, 63 00:04:09.850 --> 00:04:10.210 yes. 64 00:04:10.210 --> 00:04:10.970 Little Mushroom. 65 00:04:11.850 --> 00:04:15.490 Little Mushroom, yeah, it's brilliant. I mean, for regular listeners will know that 66 00:04:15.490 --> 00:04:19.610 I've. My wife and I, we. We got our little puppy, a cavapoo, Amber, 67 00:04:20.650 --> 00:04:25.090 six, six or so months ago now. And she's been a bundle of joy in our 68 00:04:25.090 --> 00:04:28.690 lives. And they have 220 of these 69 00:04:28.690 --> 00:04:33.680 episodes. I didn't have her. Now I do. And she's now featuring on 70 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:37.160 quite a few of them. You might hear a little woof in the background occasionally, 71 00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:41.800 but. Yeah, and it's amazing how dogs come into your life and take 72 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:46.160 over. They become part of your everyday conversation. And the people you meet 73 00:04:46.640 --> 00:04:51.360 who have puppies and dogs, it just creates another connection, 74 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:51.920 doesn't it? 75 00:04:52.960 --> 00:04:56.440 Does. I loved meeting Amber. I met her fur before I met 76 00:04:56.440 --> 00:05:01.120 her. And she came into the screen and just this big old 77 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:03.680 fur ball of beautiful amber 78 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:07.070 hair. Yeah, rightfully so. Named Amber, 79 00:05:07.070 --> 00:05:07.350 but. 80 00:05:07.350 --> 00:05:10.870 And she's a facemaker as well, so she always joins in. She doesn't know where the camera is 81 00:05:10.870 --> 00:05:15.470 yet. She hasn't suss out her own image on the screen yet, but she just turns around 82 00:05:15.950 --> 00:05:20.310 and gives my face a good old clean. I think she detects it dirty for some 83 00:05:20.310 --> 00:05:20.590 reason. 84 00:05:21.150 --> 00:05:23.630 No, she shows. She loves to kiss. 85 00:05:24.190 --> 00:05:27.870 She loves to kiss. She does love kiss. So, 86 00:05:29.070 --> 00:05:33.990 I mean, I was thinking as we were talking just then about. About the puppies and you talked about psychological 87 00:05:33.990 --> 00:05:38.870 safety landing your brain, and we spent a lot 88 00:05:38.870 --> 00:05:43.830 of our time, a lot of our lives rushing around all over the place. What got you into 89 00:05:43.910 --> 00:05:45.590 talking about this originally. 90 00:05:46.630 --> 00:05:51.430 Well, I'm so glad that we had an opportunity to chat before we had to pack the 91 00:05:51.510 --> 00:05:54.310 actual recording because it allowed me 92 00:05:54.310 --> 00:05:57.510 to. I'm not normally, like a nervous person, 93 00:05:57.670 --> 00:06:02.470 but. But it made me feel really comfortable to just go there 94 00:06:02.470 --> 00:06:07.390 with you and tell you whatever. I was in an abusive relationship, not 95 00:06:07.470 --> 00:06:11.950 physically, but my very first marriage when I was 19 years 96 00:06:11.950 --> 00:06:16.510 old. It was extremely manipulative, mentally, verbally, 97 00:06:16.670 --> 00:06:20.190 financially abusive, and it was just full of 98 00:06:20.190 --> 00:06:24.950 chaos. But the chaos around that marriage was just a 99 00:06:24.950 --> 00:06:27.590 repeated pattern because I was born into 100 00:06:27.590 --> 00:06:32.270 chaos. But it all felt normal because I did not understand it as 101 00:06:32.350 --> 00:06:36.910 chaos. And so as I. I got a divorce at 29 102 00:06:36.990 --> 00:06:40.950 years old and realised that that wasn't 103 00:06:40.950 --> 00:06:44.110 okay. And I went into. Deep into 104 00:06:44.110 --> 00:06:48.710 yoga. And I would say at about 29 is when I 105 00:06:48.710 --> 00:06:51.390 began this journey of being 106 00:06:51.390 --> 00:06:54.680 calm. I didn't get it right, as we do, we often 107 00:06:54.680 --> 00:06:59.600 overcorrect. I went into a lot of toxic positivity, which was probably 108 00:06:59.760 --> 00:07:02.880 just as damaging as the chaos, 109 00:07:02.960 --> 00:07:07.280 right? That toxic positivity didn't allow me to say how I 110 00:07:07.280 --> 00:07:12.160 felt. It didn't allow me to feel my feelings. The very thing that I teach 111 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:17.120 now, which is like, feel that feeling and allow it to metabolise through and that 90 seconds that it 112 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:20.230 takes, and that's it. I was on the 113 00:07:20.230 --> 00:07:25.190 journey. I was on the road to being this person, to practising what I practise, to doing what I 114 00:07:25.190 --> 00:07:30.150 do for myself without knowing that it would turn into something so valuable for me and the people 115 00:07:30.150 --> 00:07:34.870 that I take care of. But I believe that's how I got into 116 00:07:34.870 --> 00:07:39.710 it. That's like the origin, I would say, chaotic upbringing into the 117 00:07:39.710 --> 00:07:44.270 repeated pattern of chaos in my first marriage, and then 118 00:07:44.430 --> 00:07:49.050 trying to find something to just make me feel normal, whatever that means, 119 00:07:49.050 --> 00:07:53.490 right? Trying to find something that made me feel not out of control or 120 00:07:54.930 --> 00:07:59.410 on edge, anxious all the time. And I fumbled into this, 121 00:07:59.490 --> 00:08:03.490 literally fumbled into it. And I read Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor's 122 00:08:04.210 --> 00:08:08.330 philosophy on metabolising an emotion in 90 seconds or 123 00:08:08.330 --> 00:08:13.130 less. I had already tapped into meditation and transcendental meditation and 124 00:08:13.130 --> 00:08:16.650 breathing and yoga, taking a deep breath, calming 125 00:08:16.650 --> 00:08:21.130 down. But I didn't understand the way that the body worked, really operated, 126 00:08:21.530 --> 00:08:26.170 based on research. And as I learned more and more and more about myself, 127 00:08:26.250 --> 00:08:29.570 I began to see this in other people and I was able to 128 00:08:29.570 --> 00:08:32.410 help. Did that answer your question, John? 129 00:08:32.810 --> 00:08:37.633 Yeah. Yeah, it did. Hopefully you won't mind us going back a bit to your past 130 00:08:37.633 --> 00:08:41.132 and your origin, story, if you like, for people who are 131 00:08:41.132 --> 00:08:46.031 Listening. Who may also have experienced toxic relationships or coercive 132 00:08:46.031 --> 00:08:50.776 control. or in events, where they weren't able to be themselves doing the 133 00:08:50.776 --> 00:08:54.898 sums. You were probably in that relationship for best part of 10 134 00:08:54.898 --> 00:08:56.140 years. Is that how. 135 00:08:56.140 --> 00:09:00.260 Yeah, seven. Seven. It was something like. I was in it hardcore for 136 00:09:00.260 --> 00:09:04.860 seven. And then we were going through a separation for two. So divorce was in at 137 00:09:04.860 --> 00:09:06.620 29, but the marriage was at 19. 138 00:09:07.420 --> 00:09:11.840 What took so long? Is it because it's still a comfort even in the 139 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:16.800 chaos? Or there's codependency or gaslighting that keeps you 140 00:09:16.800 --> 00:09:19.840 there? You believe it's all your fault? Is it those sort of things going through your 141 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:21.640 mind? Are you okay? You okay talking about this? 142 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:22.960 Yeah, yeah, I'm okay. 143 00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:23.400 Yeah. 144 00:09:23.640 --> 00:09:26.520 I'm trying to think of how to explain 145 00:09:26.520 --> 00:09:31.360 it. I've been writing about it recently, which is why it's easier for me for it to 146 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:34.600 come up. What took so long? I thought there was 147 00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:37.700 a. One second. Just one. One quick. All 148 00:09:37.700 --> 00:09:41.540 right. And I'm back. Okay, so 149 00:09:42.740 --> 00:09:47.660 here's. Here's the. I try to peel back layers so that I can get to my 150 00:09:47.660 --> 00:09:52.340 rawest truth. Because I know every time I get to my rawest self, the one that 151 00:09:53.460 --> 00:09:58.340 can be a little painful coming out, I'm healing every single 152 00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:02.620 time that happens. So if you bear with me, I'm going to get 153 00:10:02.620 --> 00:10:05.260 there. Just be patient with me. I didn't 154 00:10:05.260 --> 00:10:10.130 know. I thought that what this looked like 155 00:10:10.370 --> 00:10:14.610 was a hundred times better in my marriage than how I grew 156 00:10:14.610 --> 00:10:17.410 up. So that meant I was doing 157 00:10:17.490 --> 00:10:22.130 well. The baseline was so low and 158 00:10:22.290 --> 00:10:27.130 so chaotic that where I was with someone who manipulated 159 00:10:27.130 --> 00:10:31.290 me but didn't. Didn't yell or yelled, very few and far 160 00:10:31.290 --> 00:10:36.210 between. Didn't hit because abuse to me, chaos to me 161 00:10:36.290 --> 00:10:40.800 meant hitting, yelling, threatening. So I was in a good 162 00:10:40.880 --> 00:10:44.480 relationship for years, so I thought, 163 00:10:45.760 --> 00:10:48.600 and that's why I stayed so long. But there was 164 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:53.360 something. Something maybe ruminating back here, saying, but if it's good, 165 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:58.200 why do I feel so bad? Why does it feel so bad 166 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:02.000 inside? And so I had to ask myself those 167 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:06.390 questions. And I talked to my mom, talked to my mom, who's still with us, and 168 00:11:06.470 --> 00:11:11.430 she. She tried to justify. She still 169 00:11:11.430 --> 00:11:15.990 didn't understand what abuse was. She still didn't understand after 170 00:11:16.230 --> 00:11:20.390 my father had passed away, after she was out of it, she didn't understand what abuse 171 00:11:20.390 --> 00:11:25.150 was. So she was not the person to give me the right advice. But she referred me to a 172 00:11:25.150 --> 00:11:29.910 therapist. And in going to see this therapist, my ex husband was like, 173 00:11:29.990 --> 00:11:33.030 oh, my God. That means that you're crazy. You can't see a 174 00:11:33.030 --> 00:11:37.430 therapist. Oh, my God. Like, he forbade me to do it without saying, I forbid 175 00:11:37.430 --> 00:11:41.830 you. And so at that point, I knew something was really, really 176 00:11:41.830 --> 00:11:46.390 wrong. And I had to be around 24 or 177 00:11:46.390 --> 00:11:50.190 25, right? So this is six years into the 178 00:11:50.190 --> 00:11:55.110 marriage. I knew something was wrong. So knowing that something was wrong, I was 179 00:11:55.110 --> 00:11:59.990 taught never to talk about your marriage outside of your marriage because nobody understands or they won't know your 180 00:11:59.990 --> 00:12:03.360 relationship is yours. So. So I didn't. My mother was the only person that I opened up 181 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:07.680 to. I knew that I needed to see a therapist at that point because he forbade 182 00:12:07.680 --> 00:12:11.560 it. So I was like, there's something like, that's healthy, 183 00:12:11.560 --> 00:12:14.720 right? So I'm raising two kids at this 184 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:17.880 point. I had both of the kids, my daughter's from a previous 185 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:20.880 marriage. So when I got married to this guy, that was another 186 00:12:20.880 --> 00:12:25.240 thing. So you asked a very layered question, Joanne. You said, why did you stay so 187 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:27.800 long? And part of it is because I had already 188 00:12:28.040 --> 00:12:32.920 failed. I had already broken up with my high school sweetheart, who I had my daughter 189 00:12:32.920 --> 00:12:36.940 with. And so getting married to my ex husband was 190 00:12:36.940 --> 00:12:40.860 successful. Then we made this whole neat little nice unit on the 191 00:12:40.860 --> 00:12:44.340 outside. We looked perfect. And then we had a 192 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:47.740 child. And so I couldn't leave again. I couldn't fail 193 00:12:47.740 --> 00:12:52.460 again. On top of. He wasn't abusing me, on top 194 00:12:52.460 --> 00:12:57.380 of my mother not being able to give. Being able to give the best advice that 195 00:12:57.380 --> 00:13:02.140 she could, I'm. And so I started seeing a therapist, and I was sneaking to 196 00:13:02.140 --> 00:13:07.100 see a therapist, and when he found out by going through my purse and finding 197 00:13:07.100 --> 00:13:10.220 a cash receipt for paying the therapist, he was 198 00:13:10.220 --> 00:13:15.180 livid. Livid. And I'm like, at this point, I don't think we were talking 199 00:13:15.180 --> 00:13:18.580 about him. And so I'm like, why are you so upset? This is good for 200 00:13:18.580 --> 00:13:21.340 me. You know, I had a lot of shit in my childhood, you 201 00:13:21.340 --> 00:13:25.900 know? You know, because those are the things that he would bring up. Like, your parents were, and you're 202 00:13:25.900 --> 00:13:30.700 not. And so that means. Well, I'm not saying anything bad about you, but your parents 203 00:13:30.700 --> 00:13:33.700 are and you are, and that means this about 204 00:13:33.700 --> 00:13:37.460 you. Yeah. So that's why I stayed so 205 00:13:37.460 --> 00:13:42.220 long. I just. I didn't have a reference point, a good 206 00:13:42.220 --> 00:13:44.420 reference point. Does that make sense? 207 00:13:44.820 --> 00:13:48.740 Yeah. What you're saying is there were so many good 208 00:13:48.740 --> 00:13:51.780 things. There was no violence, no shouting, no screaming, which you 209 00:13:51.780 --> 00:13:55.780 were. You'd been brought up with. And then you didn't see the psychological trauma 210 00:13:56.780 --> 00:14:01.620 because you weren't aware of it. And that Was things were okay, good 211 00:14:01.620 --> 00:14:06.420 enough, and then until you realise they weren't and then you look at other people around you and they're not 212 00:14:06.420 --> 00:14:11.340 having that at all. So. Yeah, I guess you want to believe it as well as you 213 00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:15.260 say. You had a young child, you wanted a traditional family, 214 00:14:16.060 --> 00:14:20.820 you wanted things to be. You had a belief that this is how things are and should 215 00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:24.070 be until you realise they're not. And 216 00:14:24.070 --> 00:14:26.870 it's. It can take a while. And I, I fully understand 217 00:14:26.870 --> 00:14:29.310 that. I fully understand that kind of feeling. 218 00:14:29.870 --> 00:14:34.470 When I say there was no shouting. Let me. The shouting was not like it was when I was a 219 00:14:34.470 --> 00:14:37.190 child. There was shouting or 220 00:14:37.190 --> 00:14:40.430 avoidance. So from on my part so that there wouldn't be 221 00:14:40.430 --> 00:14:42.350 shouting. Does that. 222 00:14:42.430 --> 00:14:43.510 Right. Okay. So you're. 223 00:14:43.510 --> 00:14:44.030 There was. 224 00:14:44.270 --> 00:14:45.950 You're conforming to the rules. 225 00:14:46.110 --> 00:14:47.150 Yeah. Oh, yeah. 226 00:14:47.350 --> 00:14:47.670 Yeah. 227 00:14:51.590 --> 00:14:54.110 He was such a little man and I know that that 228 00:14:54.110 --> 00:14:57.590 doesn't. Like. I look back now and 229 00:14:57.590 --> 00:15:01.910 I. I think about how 1. I have to say he was living his best life 230 00:15:02.470 --> 00:15:05.750 and he. We. He was doing the best that he could with what he 231 00:15:05.750 --> 00:15:10.590 had. It doesn't excuse it at all. He was doing the best that he could with what he 232 00:15:10.590 --> 00:15:15.510 had. He knew how to manipulate situations to get to where he needed to get to or to get 233 00:15:15.510 --> 00:15:18.590 the answer that he needed to get what he needed. And so he did that. That's 234 00:15:18.590 --> 00:15:22.730 ex. What he did. That was the best of his ability. It was not good and it wasn't for 235 00:15:22.730 --> 00:15:27.370 me. And so I'm going to tell you a little bit, I think, about soul 236 00:15:27.370 --> 00:15:32.170 contracts. I've learned about it in the past couple years or so and I 237 00:15:32.170 --> 00:15:37.050 honestly believe that in order for me to evolve to where I am and where I'm going, I 238 00:15:37.050 --> 00:15:41.970 don't know. Right. We made that agreement and only until about a 239 00:15:41.970 --> 00:15:45.650 couple years ago. We've been divorced for 18 240 00:15:45.730 --> 00:15:50.210 years. I didn't forgive him until 241 00:15:50.450 --> 00:15:54.450 two years ago when I found out we had agreed 242 00:15:55.650 --> 00:16:00.530 before I was ever born for him to be this person to me 243 00:16:01.650 --> 00:16:04.610 for whatever my soul needed. And 244 00:16:04.610 --> 00:16:09.450 that. That allowed further healing and forgiveness for me to 245 00:16:09.450 --> 00:16:14.300 take place. That belief system. And it works for me and it has 246 00:16:14.300 --> 00:16:19.220 worked for me and I feel better. And I'm a much more whole person because of 247 00:16:19.220 --> 00:16:21.580 that belief system. So I choose to embrace it. 248 00:16:21.900 --> 00:16:26.460 I think that's really important that you contextualise 249 00:16:27.020 --> 00:16:31.620 what happens. You. You create an understanding in your own 250 00:16:31.620 --> 00:16:36.500 head. The things that are just hanging, things you can't explain are really hard to move 251 00:16:36.500 --> 00:16:41.390 on from. If you can find an explanation that works for you, that's part of the healing process as well, isn't 252 00:16:42.630 --> 00:16:43.910 is it has been. 253 00:16:43.990 --> 00:16:48.910 And we have a kid in the middle of this. Right. So without getting too 254 00:16:48.910 --> 00:16:52.590 deep into what happened to our child. Our 255 00:16:52.590 --> 00:16:57.470 children. Right. We raised two kids in this partially, one and the other completely 256 00:16:57.470 --> 00:17:02.350 together. Still working through, allowing my 257 00:17:02.350 --> 00:17:06.390 child to have to experience the things that I did 258 00:17:07.470 --> 00:17:12.110 on a regular basis because of joint custody and that I know I'm still 259 00:17:12.110 --> 00:17:16.990 dealing with some lack of self forgiveness, I'm sure even if I, you 260 00:17:16.990 --> 00:17:20.230 know, it was beyond the control that I had at the 261 00:17:20.230 --> 00:17:25.030 time. I haven't processed it. I haven't. I haven't come up with anything yet to make 262 00:17:25.030 --> 00:17:29.830 that be 100% okay and me to be free and clear from 263 00:17:29.830 --> 00:17:30.110 that. 264 00:17:30.830 --> 00:17:35.150 Mm, yeah, no, I got, I got a. So you talked about 265 00:17:35.630 --> 00:17:40.350 psychological safety and some of the notes you sent through. And what does psychological safety mean to you in a 266 00:17:40.350 --> 00:17:42.830 relationship or in the workplace or in wherever. 267 00:17:43.470 --> 00:17:46.430 When I learned about psychological safety, it was in a workplace, believe it or 268 00:17:46.430 --> 00:17:51.230 not. And I used to work for, for a big telecommunications company here 269 00:17:51.230 --> 00:17:53.990 in the States and they have some international holdings as 270 00:17:53.990 --> 00:17:58.070 well. But in that corporate space, I trained leaders to do many, many 271 00:17:58.070 --> 00:18:02.700 things. And I was one of two women of colour that held this 272 00:18:02.700 --> 00:18:07.340 position. And in the leadership ranks, 273 00:18:07.580 --> 00:18:08.300 I saw 274 00:18:10.300 --> 00:18:15.260 none. I'm looking and I'm looking at the leadership. And although I live in Detroit, I did, I 275 00:18:15.260 --> 00:18:19.740 did this leadership training. I worked in Philadelphia. So I travelled once a month for a week to do this 276 00:18:19.900 --> 00:18:24.380 intense leadership training. And know how I 277 00:18:25.340 --> 00:18:29.520 cosplayed psychological safety in that type of 278 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:33.920 environment. Because when I look back now 279 00:18:34.560 --> 00:18:39.200 and I see the things that I did to my hair and my dress and my language 280 00:18:40.080 --> 00:18:45.040 to fit in to this very, very conservative white male, 281 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:49.960 blue suits, grey suit culture, I understand why I didn't see very 282 00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:53.280 many women and definitely black women in 283 00:18:53.280 --> 00:18:57.930 leadership. And it was this. It was after the George 284 00:18:58.090 --> 00:19:02.930 Floyd murders during COVID where everybody had an opportunity to sit 285 00:19:02.930 --> 00:19:07.210 down, shut up and unfortunately do nothing but 286 00:19:07.370 --> 00:19:11.290 listen. Where these terminology and these 287 00:19:12.810 --> 00:19:16.970 tactical teams began to be developed all over the 288 00:19:17.130 --> 00:19:20.290 corporation. And it pissed me 289 00:19:20.290 --> 00:19:25.130 off. It pissed me off, Joanne, because I was 290 00:19:25.130 --> 00:19:29.690 like, this is new to you. This is all 291 00:19:29.690 --> 00:19:34.570 new. Like, I've been walking around here tap dancing and doing cartwheels 292 00:19:34.570 --> 00:19:39.530 and standing on my head to fit in. And you guys are just seeing my 293 00:19:39.530 --> 00:19:44.490 daily. This is what we go through. My gosh, that angered me 294 00:19:44.490 --> 00:19:48.250 more. And I didn't know how to express that anger 295 00:19:49.300 --> 00:19:54.020 because I didn't feel psychologically safe. I didn't Feel like 296 00:19:54.180 --> 00:19:56.100 my concerns would be 297 00:19:57.300 --> 00:20:02.060 welcomed. Right? And maybe even retribution 298 00:20:02.060 --> 00:20:05.980 or retaliation. Because here we are trying to help you 299 00:20:05.980 --> 00:20:09.540 people. And I heard this. They did, they. They stopped short of you 300 00:20:09.540 --> 00:20:14.380 people. But here we are trying to help you, showing that we care and 301 00:20:14.380 --> 00:20:15.220 you're upset. 302 00:20:16.070 --> 00:20:16.310 Why? 303 00:20:16.470 --> 00:20:21.390 I couldn't. It was like a visceral reaction, me 304 00:20:21.390 --> 00:20:23.950 being angry. It was a visceral 305 00:20:23.950 --> 00:20:26.670 reaction. I couldn't explain 306 00:20:26.670 --> 00:20:31.030 it. I didn't know how to articulate. I didn't know where it had come 307 00:20:31.030 --> 00:20:35.910 from. And so if I could contribute to the corporate world, 308 00:20:36.230 --> 00:20:40.550 any one person or them taking it home, even to their family, to teach their children 309 00:20:41.520 --> 00:20:45.680 how to pause and allow that emotion to metabolise 310 00:20:46.560 --> 00:20:51.080 in the time, the amount of time that it takes and then 311 00:20:51.080 --> 00:20:55.760 react, I think it would save probably many jobs, many flipped, 312 00:20:55.840 --> 00:21:00.800 Flipped desks, and it would help people understand each other a little 313 00:21:00.800 --> 00:21:01.120 better. 314 00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:04.520 That's definitely the. One of my mantras is stop and 315 00:21:04.520 --> 00:21:08.960 pause. When I'm running training, I often slap the front of my forehead and say, look, 316 00:21:09.510 --> 00:21:14.390 we need to get your thinking out from the back of your head, you know, your chimp brain into the front bit where 317 00:21:14.390 --> 00:21:18.870 you do all your thinking. So you need to slow down and tap, as I say, every time you finish up getting 318 00:21:18.870 --> 00:21:21.910 excited, tap the front of your head. That's where you need to start thinking 319 00:21:21.910 --> 00:21:25.669 from. Put all your thinking right at the front. Slow it 320 00:21:25.669 --> 00:21:26.870 down. Yeah, slow it down. 321 00:21:28.150 --> 00:21:32.990 Imagine me having made those, like to get married and to have children before I could even slap 322 00:21:32.990 --> 00:21:35.950 my prefrontal cortex, like, the synapses weren't even closed 323 00:21:35.950 --> 00:21:39.020 yet. I couldn't. Even if I slapped, it wouldn't 324 00:21:39.020 --> 00:21:41.980 matter. There was nothing there for me to even make these decisions. 325 00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:45.020 Right. But anyhow, you were going to ask me a 326 00:21:45.020 --> 00:21:46.260 question. Yeah, I love that. 327 00:21:46.580 --> 00:21:50.820 No, it. I think there comes a time in your life when you understand 328 00:21:51.860 --> 00:21:55.500 how your brain's wired, you know, how you react, how 329 00:21:55.500 --> 00:21:59.580 you. You're in your flight. Flight, fight or freeze reactions kicking 330 00:21:59.580 --> 00:22:03.220 in. Often when we. When we interact with our colleagues or 331 00:22:03.220 --> 00:22:07.950 our. In the workplace or even in our personal lives, we're often driven from 332 00:22:07.950 --> 00:22:12.150 emotional reaction rather than being able to calmly think about things and slow things 333 00:22:12.150 --> 00:22:16.110 down. We look at a lot of arguments 334 00:22:17.070 --> 00:22:21.630 or disagreements or challenging conversations. It all starts with people 335 00:22:22.430 --> 00:22:25.710 really working in their anger or their emotional 336 00:22:26.110 --> 00:22:29.910 depth. And it's really hard sometimes to pull yourself out of that, isn't 337 00:22:29.910 --> 00:22:33.550 it? This is where your 90 second pause kicks in, isn't 338 00:22:33.550 --> 00:22:33.830 it? 339 00:22:34.070 --> 00:22:38.759 Yeah. So I. Before I learned about Jill Bolte Taylor, I was doing these 340 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:43.610 Exercises, I called them, cue protocols, where I would say, okay, I want 341 00:22:43.610 --> 00:22:48.219 you to take a deep breath, I want you to get into your parasympathetic 342 00:22:48.219 --> 00:22:53.070 nervous system. Longer exhale than the inhale and it's going to drop you 343 00:22:53.070 --> 00:22:56.870 out of that fight flight and freeze, fawn, right into the 344 00:22:56.870 --> 00:23:00.590 parasympathetic, out of the sympathetic. What we this 345 00:23:00.590 --> 00:23:05.198 hard. As we began talking, you were like, we're always going, going, 346 00:23:05.198 --> 00:23:08.917 going, going. So we're always activated, we're always 347 00:23:08.917 --> 00:23:13.769 upregulated. And I would tell people to downshift and downregulate and 348 00:23:13.769 --> 00:23:18.618 that's when their heart rate slows down and we're able to take in more air 349 00:23:18.618 --> 00:23:22.662 and think. When I learned, when I was introduced by my friend 350 00:23:22.662 --> 00:23:26.220 Dr. Zippy to Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor's work, she's a joy 351 00:23:26.220 --> 00:23:31.154 coach. And we were having lunch, brunch, something, and she was like, oh, 352 00:23:31.154 --> 00:23:34.550 my gosh, you know Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor's work, the 353 00:23:34.550 --> 00:23:39.078 92nd. I was like, no, tell me more. She's like, it takes 90 seconds to 354 00:23:39.078 --> 00:23:44.010 metabolize this emotion, blah, blah, blah. And we talked about that and I 355 00:23:44.010 --> 00:23:48.942 was like, I didn't know it, but I know it now. And I went down a rabbit hole of 356 00:23:48.942 --> 00:23:53.471 connecting the two. Sometimes you know something and you just feel 357 00:23:53.471 --> 00:23:56.383 it. You have a little bit of information and 358 00:23:56.383 --> 00:24:00.184 you. And you test it, test it, test it, and you know that it 359 00:24:00.184 --> 00:24:04.469 works. But I didn't even know that it had already been studied as 360 00:24:04.469 --> 00:24:09.158 such. Teaching people understanding first, becoming aware that you 361 00:24:09.158 --> 00:24:14.006 can. That it's possible that when you're irate, when you're upset, that 362 00:24:14.006 --> 00:24:18.129 you can access this part of your nervous system that controls 363 00:24:18.129 --> 00:24:22.656 everything. Your nervous system senses things before it sends the 364 00:24:22.656 --> 00:24:26.293 message to your brain, from your feet to your heart, to 365 00:24:26.293 --> 00:24:30.335 your. We talk about the gut, right? We sense things before we 366 00:24:30.335 --> 00:24:34.459 know. What we have to do is slow down and understand how to feel 367 00:24:34.459 --> 00:24:39.311 them. And as that muscle memory kicks in, as you begin to develop that as a 368 00:24:39.311 --> 00:24:44.243 muscle, our brain, our conscious brain will then come online a lot faster 369 00:24:44.243 --> 00:24:49.175 so that we can know what we're feeling. Boom, it makes that connection and 370 00:24:49.175 --> 00:24:53.946 we're able to pause, do whatever the protocol is that works for you, and 371 00:24:53.946 --> 00:24:58.310 then make that clear decision. Now, I went all over the place with 372 00:24:58.310 --> 00:25:02.676 that. I need to know if I answered your question or I just talked so 373 00:25:02.676 --> 00:25:03.080 much. 374 00:25:03.570 --> 00:25:08.376 What was going through my head is that whether people realise it or not, 375 00:25:08.376 --> 00:25:12.772 you can learn these techniques and you can learn about emotional 376 00:25:12.772 --> 00:25:17.657 intelligence, you can learn about emotional regulation, you can Learn 377 00:25:17.657 --> 00:25:22.381 about how to, as you say, pause. Take that. Play whatever's going on in 378 00:25:22.381 --> 00:25:26.942 your brain. If you stop and pause in long enough and you get positive 379 00:25:26.942 --> 00:25:30.282 reinforcement from that behaviour, you start to 380 00:25:30.282 --> 00:25:35.250 realise. But too often people are in that constant state of alert and it's 381 00:25:35.250 --> 00:25:40.056 so hard to downshift or to take yourself out of that if you've not had any 382 00:25:40.056 --> 00:25:41.929 support or help doing that. 383 00:25:43.070 --> 00:25:48.030 Yeah, it is. I mean, I have this pie in the sky dream that 384 00:25:48.190 --> 00:25:53.140 this will become a part of life. And you know how when we were young or 385 00:25:53.140 --> 00:25:55.900 something, people would say, take a deep breath perhaps, right, 386 00:25:55.900 --> 00:25:59.060 this. This can. This is so easy. These things are so 387 00:25:59.060 --> 00:26:02.140 easy. Where our exhale is longer. We know a lot about box 388 00:26:02.140 --> 00:26:07.139 breathing. I hear about it all the time. My son's an athlete. He does it now as a regular thing, like they 389 00:26:07.139 --> 00:26:12.060 teach it, the coaches. I hope that these downshifts, understanding that you 390 00:26:12.060 --> 00:26:16.940 metabolise good, bad, whatever emotions in 90 seconds chemically 391 00:26:17.340 --> 00:26:20.340 in your body, as long as you don't play them on a 392 00:26:20.340 --> 00:26:25.240 loop. And if you do decide to play them in a loop, at least consciously playing them on the 393 00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:30.080 loop. Because a lot of times when we're upset and we're going down 394 00:26:30.080 --> 00:26:34.160 that spiral, we're not conscious of it. And so we allow ourselves to go down that 395 00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:38.839 spiral. The more we can become conscious that this thing we can name, 396 00:26:38.839 --> 00:26:43.480 this feeling, we can feel this feeling we can go through, this icky, nasty, 397 00:26:43.480 --> 00:26:48.240 terrible feeling that we all want to avoid in 90 seconds, the 398 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:53.170 better. Our whole this is my pie in the sky society will be maybe 399 00:26:53.170 --> 00:26:57.850 less war, maybe. Maybe someone, maybe 400 00:26:58.090 --> 00:27:00.890 more understanding, maybe more understanding of 401 00:27:00.890 --> 00:27:04.010